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  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    malcolmg said:

    The parasites are worried.

    No they're not. Too busy commissioning self portraits and riding around in helicopters
    USUALLY as sure-footed as a mountain goat on Strictly, Nicola Sturgeon endured two bad wobbles and a bellyflop at FMQs today.

    The FM says she wants to run on her record in May; but how do you run on quicksand?
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/viewpoint/14221926.FMQs_sketch__Amazon_misadventure/
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Nice avatar Pulpstar ;)

    No it bloody well isn't.
    Yours is nice too :p
    Mine combines the two finest flags in human history.

    Just needs The White Rose in another quadrant and it would be awesome.
    Surely at the center of the cross, heart of England and all that.
    I like your thinking.
    Can I just point out that the White Rose lost?
  • Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294

    Amazon has says it will take on 2,500 new permanent staff in the UK this year, bringing its total number of UK employees to 14,000.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35379861

    What on earth do they all do all day?

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited 2016 22
    Pulpstar said:

    Putin only has 2 more years left in charge of Russia, whereupon a new face will take charge.

    Remember from 2008 - 2012, we had Dmitry Medvedev in charge - his own man and very much a fresh face for Russia.

    Putin intended to retire but then realised his life expectancy post retirement could be measured in weeks, if not days.

    I am told but a reliable source that he has $400bn sitting in Switzerland. I won't name the bank ;)

    Something ironic though, about having all that money and not being able to touch it :smiley:
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Patrick Kidd
    Mogg is talking about fashion: "Those of us who are 'with it', in the current phraseology."
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756
    I see the Tories are planning to use Chinese steel for the type 26 frigates, what hold do they have over Cameron.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    malcolmg said:

    I see the Tories are planning to use Chinese steel for the type 26 frigates, what hold do they have over Cameron.

    Why did Eck buy Chinese steel for the bridge?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756
    RobD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Happy Birthday @MalcolmG. Have a wonderful day!

    No one arranged a whip round to get him a golden turnip??
    Ron it is on the menu tonight, will be a practice run for Burns Night.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,234
    malcolmg said:

    I see the Tories are planning to use Chinese steel for the type 26 frigates, what hold do they have over Cameron.

    Didn't realise the Conservative Party had a Navy. Suppose it helps for delivering leaflets to the outer territories.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,161
    Charles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Putin only has 2 more years left in charge of Russia, whereupon a new face will take charge.

    Remember from 2008 - 2012, we had Dmitry Medvedev in charge - his own man and very much a fresh face for Russia.

    Putin intended to retire but then realised his life expectancy post retirement could be measured in weeks, if not days.

    I am told but a reliable source that he has $400bn sitting in Switzerland. I won't name the bank ;)

    Something ironic though, about having all that money and not being able to touch it :smiley:
    Apparently he owns Number 50 St James's Street
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    Excellent Labour gain from ukip in Thanet last night,supporting the trend in ukip defended seats.ukip are like Aston Villa,they simply cannot defend.It seems voters are voting for what they think is a better brand of cornflakes in ukip which they try for a bit and decide they don't like and go back to Kelloggs or any other good cornflake supplier.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756
    Cyclefree said:

    Mr. Brooke, not sure I've ever fried a vegetable.

    Do like roast parsnips, though.

    Mr Dancer time to get the wok out and start experimenting. Those opium seeds could be good for you too.
    Fried potatoes? When I was a child we used to have the surplus mashed potato from the evening meal fried for breakfast next fday. Delicious with fried egg.
    Any spaghetti or other pasta which is left over can be mixed with a beaten egg and then fried to make a frittata - a sort of pasta Spanish omelette. Delicious!



    Agree, very tasty
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,234
    Charles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Putin only has 2 more years left in charge of Russia, whereupon a new face will take charge.

    Remember from 2008 - 2012, we had Dmitry Medvedev in charge - his own man and very much a fresh face for Russia.

    Putin intended to retire but then realised his life expectancy post retirement could be measured in weeks, if not days.

    I am told but a reliable source that he has $400bn sitting in Switzerland. I won't name the bank ;)

    Something ironic though, about having all that money and not being able to touch it :smiley:
    Do you believe your source, reliable or not?
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Mr. Brooke, not sure I've ever fried a vegetable.

    Do like roast parsnips, though.

    Mr Dancer time to get the wok out and start experimenting. Those opium seeds could be good for you too.
    Fried potatoes? When I was a child we used to have the surplus mashed potato from the evening meal fried for breakfast next fday. Delicious with fried egg.
    Bit confused by the reference to when you were a child. Don't you still have this as occasional breakfast treat? We do, in fact Herself sometimes cooks too mashed potato on purpose just so the we can.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,548
    edited 2016 22

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    My point still stands: that they had proceedures to follow and it was good they followed them. It was not some outrage to civil liberties as @blackburn63 believed. I never commented on whether the spelling mistake should be sufficent to trigger the proceedures because I have no idea what the appropriate threshold should be.

    But if you'd rather go "Yah! Boo! Sucks!" than engaged in a nuanced and sophisticated debate then knock yourself out buddy

    It was reported yesterday that a 10-yr old boy wrote that he lived in a terrorist house and as a result, the school called the police who went to investigate by talking to the boy's family about it.

    As reported (one perhaps spelling mistake, a police response) that was ludicrous because I am sure other measures short of calling the police could have been taken to determine whether he came from a long line of dumb terrorists, or whether it was a spelling mistake, or whether there was some other reason.

    It now turns out that the police visited the house for several reasons unrelated to terrorism and they criticised the BBC for sexing up the story. Which makes much more sense.

    To call the police for one isolated incident, as reported, yet which you and others here thought was entirely justified, would have been ludicrous.

    Nuanced and sophisticated enough for you? Buddy.
    But not the teacher, the police or the social workers fault. They were following proceedures. That is a good thing: there is a reason why they are not allowed to exercise discretion at this stage
    The problem is that a lack of discretion doesn't help. In the baby P case, Shoesmith was appalled at being blamed. She had followed every procedure and her paperwork was impeccable. She'd even vigorously investigated the woman who'd tried to help baby P for child abuse - for shouting back at a teenager who being ranting death threats at her.
    And ultimately she got a massive payout....
    Procedures should be seen as an aid to - not a substitute for - judgment. Unfortunately, this does not happen as often as it should or, in some areas, at all. People either don't see the need to exercise judgment or are too afraid to do so. But judgment is the mark of a true professional. And it is like a muscle - in order to develop good judgment you need to use it, every day. It's not something that can be switched on now and again.

  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Charles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Putin only has 2 more years left in charge of Russia, whereupon a new face will take charge.

    Remember from 2008 - 2012, we had Dmitry Medvedev in charge - his own man and very much a fresh face for Russia.

    Putin intended to retire but then realised his life expectancy post retirement could be measured in weeks, if not days.

    I am told but a reliable source that he has $400bn sitting in Switzerland. I won't name the bank ;)

    Something ironic though, about having all that money and not being able to touch it :smiley:
    Hmm. Isn't $400bn the same figure Putin claimed as Russia's foreign currency reserves and if so, could there have been a mix-up? $400bn sounds implausibly large for anyone's nest egg.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,883

    Martin Kettle notes this morning that we are approaching the 100th anniversary of the October Revolution. If Jeremy Corbyn is still in power in October 2017, what words do you think he will find to mark this centenary?

    "Comrades, one hundred years ago, Russia achieved freedom. The Tsar, the Priests, the Bourgeoisie, the Kulaks, who had feasted on the blood of workers and peasants for hundreds of years, were rightly liquidated.

    Comrades, let us emulate their example! Let the gutters of Park Lane run with the blood of capitalists; may the last member of the Royal Family be strangled on the guts of the last Bishop! Arise ye starvelings from your slumbers! You have nothing to lose but your chains!"
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Sean_F said:

    Martin Kettle notes this morning that we are approaching the 100th anniversary of the October Revolution. If Jeremy Corbyn is still in power in October 2017, what words do you think he will find to mark this centenary?

    "Comrades, one hundred years ago, Russia achieved freedom. The Tsar, the Priests, the Bourgeoisie, the Kulaks, who had feasted on the blood of workers and peasants for hundreds of years, were rightly liquidated.

    Comrades, let us emulate their example! Let the gutters of Park Lane run with the blood of capitalists; may the last member of the Royal Family be strangled on the guts of the last Bishop! Arise ye starvelings from your slumbers! You have nothing to lose but your chains!"
    Is that the PPB? Roger could produce it.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Amazon has says it will take on 2,500 new permanent staff in the UK this year, bringing its total number of UK employees to 14,000.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35379861

    What on earth do they all do all day?

    Whatever Amazon employees do all day, it isn't writing cheques to HMRC.
  • malcolmg said:

    I see the Tories are planning to use Chinese steel for the type 26 frigates, what hold do they have over Cameron.

    Err...steel is a bulk and universal commodity. Like oil. Or copper. Or refined sugar. It's globally vastly over-produced. We should buy from the best value provider. It is NOT a strategic commodity. China subsidises its vast and inefficient steel industry as a makework exercise. UK taxpayers should be delighted that we're getting cheap steel courtesy of the loony policies of the Chinese leadership and the generosity of the Chinese taxpayer.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756
    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    malcolmg said:

    just a pity that the parasitic ruling elite cannot be turfed out.

    True, especially when they control the judiciary...

    @AgentP22: The message from Ms Sturgeon is clear.

    Join the SNP & you can do what you want.

    Normal rules don't apply. https://t.co/YTzjcVYSUA
    Take off your blue specs Scott, the same elite unionists and business people/landowners are still running the country. They prevent the SNP really changing Scotland for the better. They are miffed though that the SNP have got out of control and not completely joined the club , hence the unionist panic at present.
    The parasites are worried.
    What? I thought the SNP had a majority up there?
    Yes but as I am sure you know it is really the establishment that runs the country , disappointingly the SNP use the same elite/public parasitic placemen on their committees , panels etc when policy is decided. So we get much the same self interested establishment led policies in general.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    watford30 said:

    Wanderer said:

    David Cameron
    Trying to profit from spurious claims lodged against our brave servicemen & women is unacceptable. My statement: https://t.co/94CBPZYKTG

    "Firm action against firms" - dear me. Good statement though, imo.
    At least one of the firms is going down. Solicitors stuck off etc..

    Why do you think that they are giving whining press interviews about how they (the solicitors) are the real victims in all this? Whining about the "chilling effect" that this will have in this area of law....
    They're whinging because their business model is about to implode, that much is obvious. A few of them should be looking at jail time for the document shredding incident.
    All of which makes it a good reason for politicians not to spout until the facts are clear.
    The facts are quite clear - solictors guilty of destroying documents, padding billing, paying witnesses vast sums of money etc. The only question is how hard they fall - stuck off, giant fines etc...
    I see and happily agree that the facts are clear, but if those fact involve criminality then politician need to be careful what they say and when they say it.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    RobD said:

    Charles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Putin only has 2 more years left in charge of Russia, whereupon a new face will take charge.

    Remember from 2008 - 2012, we had Dmitry Medvedev in charge - his own man and very much a fresh face for Russia.

    Putin intended to retire but then realised his life expectancy post retirement could be measured in weeks, if not days.

    I am told but a reliable source that he has $400bn sitting in Switzerland. I won't name the bank ;)

    Something ironic though, about having all that money and not being able to touch it :smiley:
    Do you believe your source, reliable or not?
    Another source had told me he gets 8% of the top of every oil dollar that Russia earns.

    So it's plausible - although not sure on the precise number
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,450
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Putin only has 2 more years left in charge of Russia, whereupon a new face will take charge.

    Remember from 2008 - 2012, we had Dmitry Medvedev in charge - his own man and very much a fresh face for Russia.

    Putin intended to retire but then realised his life expectancy post retirement could be measured in weeks, if not days.

    I am told but a reliable source that he has $400bn sitting in Switzerland. I won't name the bank ;)

    Something ironic though, about having all that money and not being able to touch it :smiley:
    Apparently he owns Number 50 St James's Street
    I've heard that a trust he controls owns large swathes of Kensington. I can well believe it.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,234
    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    Charles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Putin only has 2 more years left in charge of Russia, whereupon a new face will take charge.

    Remember from 2008 - 2012, we had Dmitry Medvedev in charge - his own man and very much a fresh face for Russia.

    Putin intended to retire but then realised his life expectancy post retirement could be measured in weeks, if not days.

    I am told but a reliable source that he has $400bn sitting in Switzerland. I won't name the bank ;)

    Something ironic though, about having all that money and not being able to touch it :smiley:
    Do you believe your source, reliable or not?
    Another source had told me he gets 8% of the top of every oil dollar that Russia earns.

    So it's plausible - although not sure on the precise number
    Madness, if true.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    @MalcolmG

    Wishing you a very happy birthday, Mr. G, may you have a happy prosperous and healthy year ahead. Bit confused by your choice of celebratory meal, especially as your wife is poorly, should you not have something nice?

    P.S. Just to cheer you up my local off-licence has The Grouse back down to £13 a bottle. It is so the lady manager tells me flying off the shelves so fast she cannot keep up with demand. Scottish exports up.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756
    Scott_P said:

    malcolmg said:

    The parasites are worried.

    No they're not. Too busy commissioning self portraits and riding around in helicopters
    USUALLY as sure-footed as a mountain goat on Strictly, Nicola Sturgeon endured two bad wobbles and a bellyflop at FMQs today.

    The FM says she wants to run on her record in May; but how do you run on quicksand?
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/viewpoint/14221926.FMQs_sketch__Amazon_misadventure/

    Scott, quotes from unionist comics don't cut it. Do you ever look at the polls , reading your unionist comics and believing the SNP are unpopular is a bit mental considering reality. Come May we will see who is popular for sure.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,161
    Patrick said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see the Tories are planning to use Chinese steel for the type 26 frigates, what hold do they have over Cameron.

    Err...steel is a bulk and universal commodity. Like oil. Or copper. Or refined sugar. It's globally vastly over-produced. We should buy from the best value provider. It is NOT a strategic commodity. China subsidises its vast and inefficient steel industry as a makework exercise. UK taxpayers should be delighted that we're getting cheap steel courtesy of the loony policies of the Chinese leadership and the generosity of the Chinese taxpayer.
    Thank you for injecting a bit of economic common sense.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,450
    Pulpstar said:

    "government investment" is that a technical term or actual investment ?

    Under Brown it was largely day to day spending reclassified as "investment" to make the numbers look better and justify large deficits in growth years. Osborne is a bit better. From what I can tell there is still an element of day to day spending classified as investment (replacing medical equipment for example) but there is a much larger element of purchasing and investment than under Brown.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756
    Scott_P said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see the Tories are planning to use Chinese steel for the type 26 frigates, what hold do they have over Cameron.

    Why did Eck buy Chinese steel for the bridge?
    You whinged plenty about it , let us hear you on Cameron ........... LOL , usual Tory with more faces than the town clock.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2016 22

    Amazon has says it will take on 2,500 new permanent staff in the UK this year, bringing its total number of UK employees to 14,000.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35379861

    What on earth do they all do all day?

    Whatever Amazon employees do all day, it isn't writing cheques to HMRC.
    Because Amazon doesn't actually make any substantial profit, despite massive sales. And unlike Starbucks, it isn't because of transfer pricing, they genuinely work on tiny margins.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    malcolmg said:

    more faces than the town clock.

    We get it Malc

    Eck buys Chinese steel, good

    Anybody else, BAAAAAAAAAADDDDDD
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    malcolmg said:

    Do you ever look at the polls

    ROFLMAO
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756

    @MalcolmG

    Wishing you a very happy birthday, Mr. G, may you have a happy prosperous and healthy year ahead. Bit confused by your choice of celebratory meal, especially as your wife is poorly, should you not have something nice?

    P.S. Just to cheer you up my local off-licence has The Grouse back down to £13 a bottle. It is so the lady manager tells me flying off the shelves so fast she cannot keep up with demand. Scottish exports up.

    Hurst sacrilege, what could be better than haggis Neeps and Tatties followed by a nice 50 year old Glen Grant. Thanks for your kind wishes though.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    World At One
    "In Finland…you can't buy a wife" - @kirbyej reports on the country's migrant classes #wato https://t.co/8d80CcnAns https://t.co/MynJf7jHuf
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @janemerrick23: Wow, people who were born on this day: Byron, John Donne, Francis Bacon and Jonathan Woodgate...

    ...and Malky
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624

    World At One
    "In Finland…you can't buy a wife" - @kirbyej reports on the country's migrant classes #wato https://t.co/8d80CcnAns https://t.co/MynJf7jHuf

    What could possibly go wrong...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,161

    Amazon has says it will take on 2,500 new permanent staff in the UK this year, bringing its total number of UK employees to 14,000.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35379861

    What on earth do they all do all day?

    Whatever Amazon employees do all day, it isn't writing cheques to HMRC.
    Because Amazon doesn't actually make any substantial profit, despite massive sales. And unlike Starbucks, it isn't because of transfer pricing, they genuinely work on tiny margins.
    Apparently they are being forced to change from Amazon.com to Amazon.org to reflect their total disdain for actually making profits.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756
    Scott_P said:

    malcolmg said:

    more faces than the town clock.

    We get it Malc

    Eck buys Chinese steel, good

    Anybody else, BAAAAAAAAAADDDDDD
    You miss the irony and seem a bit confused, you were foaming at the mouth re the bridge but seem very happy when it is unionists doing it , how very Tory
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,552
    edited 2016 22
    malcolmg said:

    I see the Tories are planning to use Chinese steel for the type 26 frigates, what hold do they have over Cameron.

    Wait for it, wait for it..

    Keraaang.

    SNP uses Chinese steel bad
    Tories use Chinese steel good.

    'We have always done business with Eurasia.'
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    Amazon has says it will take on 2,500 new permanent staff in the UK this year, bringing its total number of UK employees to 14,000.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35379861

    What on earth do they all do all day?

    Whatever Amazon employees do all day, it isn't writing cheques to HMRC.
    Because Amazon doesn't actually make any substantial profit, despite massive sales. And unlike Starbucks, it isn't because of transfer pricing, they genuinely work on tiny margins.
    How do they afford to pay millions for the new alternate Top Gear then?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756
    Scott_P said:

    @janemerrick23: Wow, people who were born on this day: Byron, John Donne, Francis Bacon and Jonathan Woodgate...

    ...and Malky

    Pure class as you well know
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Wait for it, wait for it..

    Keraaang.

    Too slow Divvie.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,287
    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Interesting to see the row-back and expansion by the police on the "terrorist house" incident.

    Because, in shock news to some here on PB (good morning @Charles, @Plato_Says), police interviewing a family because of a seeming spelling mistake in isolation, whatever it was,

    ...WOULD BE RIDICULOUS.

    My point still stands: that they had proceedures to follow and it was good they followed them. It was not some outrage to civil liberties as @blackburn63 believed. I never commented on whether the spelling mistake should be sufficent to trigger the proceedures because I have no idea what the appropriate threshold should be.

    But if you'd rather go "Yah! Boo! Sucks!" than engaged in a nuanced and sophisticated debate then knock yourself out buddy

    It was reported yesterday that a 10-yr old boy wrote that he lived in a terrorist house and as a result, the school called the police who went to investigate by talking to the boy's family about it.

    As reported (one perhaps spelling mistake, a police response) that was ludicrous because I am sure other measures short of calling the police could have been taken to determine whether he came from a long line of dumb terrorists, or whether it was a spelling mistake, or whether there was some other reason.

    It now turns out that the police visited the house for several reasons unrelated to terrorism and they criticised the BBC for sexing up the story. Which makes much more sense.

    To call the police for one isolated incident, as reported, yet which you and others here thought was entirely justified, would have been ludicrous.

    Nuanced and sophisticated enough for you? Buddy.
    But not the teacher, the police or the social workers fault. They were following proceedures. That is a good thing: there is a reason why they are not allowed to exercise discretion at this stage
    Dear god Charles I'm sure you are losing the will to live about this, I certainly am.

    My point was that as reported - perhaps spelling mistake, visit from plod - it seemed ridiculous. It was also interesting to me that as reported - perhaps spelling mistake, visit from plod - the action had several supporters on here, including you.

    As the facts turned out, it was not - perhaps spelling mistake, visit from plod - it was far more complex and nothing to do with terrorism, as the police pointed out.

    So you are right that procedures should be followed and it seems they were. But what is more interesting is that you and others thought it fine that - perhaps spelling mistake, visit from plod - was entirely justified.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2016 22
    rcs1000 said:

    Amazon has says it will take on 2,500 new permanent staff in the UK this year, bringing its total number of UK employees to 14,000.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35379861

    What on earth do they all do all day?

    Whatever Amazon employees do all day, it isn't writing cheques to HMRC.
    Because Amazon doesn't actually make any substantial profit, despite massive sales. And unlike Starbucks, it isn't because of transfer pricing, they genuinely work on tiny margins.
    Apparently they are being forced to change from Amazon.com to Amazon.org to reflect their total disdain for actually making profits.
    LOL....it is true though and Wall Street aren't happy. They have described Amazon as still running themselves like a start-up focused on the next biggest and best thing, rather than focusing on squeezing their monopoly position to increase profits.

    My person belief, they aren't interested in flogging books, dvd, etc long term, it is the tech side both internet and controlling the logistics is where they are going. And all that "fullfilled by Amazon", will just grow and grow, and they will let others do all the leg work of getting shit made in China and taking the risk on it being a hit or not.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Putin only has 2 more years left in charge of Russia, whereupon a new face will take charge.

    Remember from 2008 - 2012, we had Dmitry Medvedev in charge - his own man and very much a fresh face for Russia.

    Putin intended to retire but then realised his life expectancy post retirement could be measured in weeks, if not days.

    I am told but a reliable source that he has $400bn sitting in Switzerland. I won't name the bank ;)

    Something ironic though, about having all that money and not being able to touch it :smiley:
    Apparently he owns Number 50 St James's Street
    Whether or not it is connected but it was Russians that bought the old In and Out club premises on Piccadilly, and the adjacent premises, and then did nothing with them allowing a dreadful eyesore to develop on one of London's premier locations. Another scandal that has been successfully hushed up.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2016 22
    Somebody needs to tell her politely to just not say anything to anybody for the rest of the year.

    http://order-order.com/2016/01/22/bbc-lucy-allan-pulled-out-of-interview-because-she-wasnt-allowed-to-veto-questions/
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,161

    Amazon has says it will take on 2,500 new permanent staff in the UK this year, bringing its total number of UK employees to 14,000.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35379861

    What on earth do they all do all day?

    Whatever Amazon employees do all day, it isn't writing cheques to HMRC.
    Because Amazon doesn't actually make any substantial profit, despite massive sales. And unlike Starbucks, it isn't because of transfer pricing, they genuinely work on tiny margins.
    How do they afford to pay millions for the new alternate Top Gear then?

    Near constant issuance of new shares, plus a little bit of debt.
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    rcs1000 said:

    Patrick said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see the Tories are planning to use Chinese steel for the type 26 frigates, what hold do they have over Cameron.

    Err...steel is a bulk and universal commodity. Like oil. Or copper. Or refined sugar. It's globally vastly over-produced. We should buy from the best value provider. It is NOT a strategic commodity. China subsidises its vast and inefficient steel industry as a makework exercise. UK taxpayers should be delighted that we're getting cheap steel courtesy of the loony policies of the Chinese leadership and the generosity of the Chinese taxpayer.
    Thank you for injecting a bit of economic common sense.
    Yebut..... if we keep on buying subsidised Chinese steel we will have no local source of production, no steel jobs, no taxes from steel business or employment.... Maybe that's what the Chinese want, destroy competition and then raise prices when they are sole supplier.

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,598

    rcs1000 said:

    Amazon has says it will take on 2,500 new permanent staff in the UK this year, bringing its total number of UK employees to 14,000.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35379861

    What on earth do they all do all day?

    Whatever Amazon employees do all day, it isn't writing cheques to HMRC.
    Because Amazon doesn't actually make any substantial profit, despite massive sales. And unlike Starbucks, it isn't because of transfer pricing, they genuinely work on tiny margins.
    Apparently they are being forced to change from Amazon.com to Amazon.org to reflect their total disdain for actually making profits.
    LOL....it is true though and Wall Street aren't happy. They have described Amazon as still running themselves like a start-up focused on the next biggest and best thing, rather than focusing on squeezing their monopoly position to increase profits.

    My person belief, they aren't interested in flogging books, dvd, etc long term, it is the tech side both internet and controlling the logistics is where they are going. And all that "fullfilled by Amazon", will just grow and grow, and they will let others do all the leg work of getting shit made in China and taking the risk on it being a hit or not.
    As a sidelight on this, I was recently translating a German Government paper on book resale price maintenance (which to my surprise they still have - they feel they need it to protect publishers from a race to the bottom), which said that a problem for traditional booksellers is that increasingly general online traders - they cite Amazon repeatedly - see the book market as a way to draw people into wider online trading, and in many cases (though they don't accuse Amazon specifically) will loss-lead on books for this purpose.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,598

    Excellent Labour gain from ukip in Thanet last night,supporting the trend in ukip defended seats.ukip are like Aston Villa,they simply cannot defend.It seems voters are voting for what they think is a better brand of cornflakes in ukip which they try for a bit and decide they don't like and go back to Kelloggs or any other good cornflake supplier.

    Good analogy.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2016 22

    rcs1000 said:

    Amazon has says it will take on 2,500 new permanent staff in the UK this year, bringing its total number of UK employees to 14,000.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35379861

    What on earth do they all do all day?

    Whatever Amazon employees do all day, it isn't writing cheques to HMRC.
    Because Amazon doesn't actually make any substantial profit, despite massive sales. And unlike Starbucks, it isn't because of transfer pricing, they genuinely work on tiny margins.
    Apparently they are being forced to change from Amazon.com to Amazon.org to reflect their total disdain for actually making profits.
    LOL....it is true though and Wall Street aren't happy. They have described Amazon as still running themselves like a start-up focused on the next biggest and best thing, rather than focusing on squeezing their monopoly position to increase profits.

    My person belief, they aren't interested in flogging books, dvd, etc long term, it is the tech side both internet and controlling the logistics is where they are going. And all that "fullfilled by Amazon", will just grow and grow, and they will let others do all the leg work of getting shit made in China and taking the risk on it being a hit or not.
    As a sidelight on this, I was recently translating a German Government paper on book resale price maintenance (which to my surprise they still have - they feel they need it to protect publishers from a race to the bottom), which said that a problem for traditional booksellers is that increasingly general online traders - they cite Amazon repeatedly - see the book market as a way to draw people into wider online trading, and in many cases (though they don't accuse Amazon specifically) will loss-lead on books for this purpose.
    Yeap. I think that is very true, although I think Amazon see it as a way to get you on their platform of products / services and that more and more will have others do the heavy lifting of source the actual products via their "fullfilled" approach (where they do all the storage and distribution, but essentially somebody else takes the risk on if the product is a winner or not).
  • glwglw Posts: 10,085
    RobD said:

    Madness, if true.

    A common trick in the 90s when Russian industry was privatised was for the newly privatised industries to appoint firms as exclusive agents. Those agents would buy at the Russian price and export at the market price and pocket the difference. And given that Russia has many of the "world's biggest X" where X is things like oil, aluminium, iron, steel and so on, there was a huge amount of money made but some very nasty people.

    I don't think the situation is quite as blatantly larcenous now, but it is more consolidated and the people in power and the owners of the major industries are now very closely tied.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    perdix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Patrick said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see the Tories are planning to use Chinese steel for the type 26 frigates, what hold do they have over Cameron.

    Err...steel is a bulk and universal commodity. Like oil. Or copper. Or refined sugar. It's globally vastly over-produced. We should buy from the best value provider. It is NOT a strategic commodity. China subsidises its vast and inefficient steel industry as a makework exercise. UK taxpayers should be delighted that we're getting cheap steel courtesy of the loony policies of the Chinese leadership and the generosity of the Chinese taxpayer.
    Thank you for injecting a bit of economic common sense.
    Yebut..... if we keep on buying subsidised Chinese steel we will have no local source of production, no steel jobs, no taxes from steel business or employment.... Maybe that's what the Chinese want, destroy competition and then raise prices when they are sole supplier.

    In a globalised world as soon as China ups the price to a profitable level others will jump in. India, Africa, Korea or one of many many more would be candidates. In this phase of globalisation the overpricing of a commodity such as steel will be very short lived.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,161
    perdix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Patrick said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see the Tories are planning to use Chinese steel for the type 26 frigates, what hold do they have over Cameron.

    Err...steel is a bulk and universal commodity. Like oil. Or copper. Or refined sugar. It's globally vastly over-produced. We should buy from the best value provider. It is NOT a strategic commodity. China subsidises its vast and inefficient steel industry as a makework exercise. UK taxpayers should be delighted that we're getting cheap steel courtesy of the loony policies of the Chinese leadership and the generosity of the Chinese taxpayer.
    Thank you for injecting a bit of economic common sense.
    Yebut..... if we keep on buying subsidised Chinese steel we will have no local source of production, no steel jobs, no taxes from steel business or employment.... Maybe that's what the Chinese want, destroy competition and then raise prices when they are sole supplier.

    The Chinese government does not set the price at which Chinese firms sell steel any more than the UK government does.

    Truth be told, there is too much steel production in the world. Steel mills are going to close in the UK, in China, in Australia, in Germany and in the US. That is a natural part of the business cycle.

    The most expensive (the so-called "marginal producer") mills will close. Our steel plants are not cheap by world standards. And local demand for steel is modest.

    If we don't have world class steel plants, then we either burden the rest of the economy by supporting them through subsidies or by paying higher prices (which amount to the same thing), or we let them go.

    We need to let them go. Propping up uncompetitive industries is a losing game. And it's one where we all pay the price in the long term.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,755
    glw said:

    RobD said:

    Madness, if true.

    A common trick in the 90s when Russian industry was privatised was for the newly privatised industries to appoint firms as exclusive agents. Those agents would buy at the Russian price and export at the market price and pocket the difference. And given that Russia has many of the "world's biggest X" where X is things like oil, aluminium, iron, steel and so on, there was a huge amount of money made but some very nasty people.

    I don't think the situation is quite as blatantly larcenous now, but it is more consolidated and the people in power and the owners of the major industries are now very closely tied.
    The top 1% in Russia own 70% of the nation's wealth, with 110 Billionaires owning over $10T in assets. The rich-poor gap is way higher there than anywhere else, certainly in the western world.
  • LondonBobLondonBob Posts: 467
    Pulpstar said:

    LondonBob said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Putin only has 2 more years left in charge of Russia, whereupon a new face will take charge.

    Remember from 2008 - 2012, we had Dmitry Medvedev in charge - his own man and very much a fresh face for Russia.

    I am sure you will find someone new to froth and obsess about, and bore everyone else silly with it too.

    I don't why but you just come across as that sort of person.
    Отвали обратно в Москву
    Sorry I apologize, I see Donald Trump is the individual you are currently frothing and obsessing about already.

    Of course I can't imagine why that is... his foreign policy positions must drive you even more nuts.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    'Germany sounded the death knell of Europe’s open-border policy by announcing indefinite plans to continue controls yesterday.'
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/article4671267.ece

    This is not quite what was being screamed with rampant hysteria yesterday.

    'The Schengen agreement is regarded by many as one of the greatest achievements of post-war Europe, heralding a new era of tourism and trade. Its collapse will be regarded as a heavy blow to the European Union itself.'
    'Stefan Lofven, the Swedish prime minister, said that unless external borders in Italy and Greece were secured the Schengen area might collapse.'

    German businesses are worried though.
    'Mrs Merkel is under pressure from business leaders to keep borders open to facilitate trade. “If Schengen in this form were to be destroyed now, and the European Union massively endangered, then I would worry about a chain reaction which would not stop at the euro. The whole shebang would go up in the air,” said Anton Börner, head of the BGA German trade federation.'

    All of which says to me that
    - in this turmoil it may be that Cameron's negotiations are pushing on an open door.
    - if German businesses as so keen for immigrant labour then that labour is likely to stay there and not go to where they are not wanted.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756
    Pulpstar said:

    glw said:

    RobD said:

    Madness, if true.

    A common trick in the 90s when Russian industry was privatised was for the newly privatised industries to appoint firms as exclusive agents. Those agents would buy at the Russian price and export at the market price and pocket the difference. And given that Russia has many of the "world's biggest X" where X is things like oil, aluminium, iron, steel and so on, there was a huge amount of money made but some very nasty people.

    I don't think the situation is quite as blatantly larcenous now, but it is more consolidated and the people in power and the owners of the major industries are now very closely tied.
    The top 1% in Russia own 70% of the nation's wealth, with 110 Billionaires owning over $10T in assets. The rich-poor gap is way higher there than anywhere else, certainly in the western world.
    Bit like Britain then
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,022
    perdix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Patrick said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see the Tories are planning to use Chinese steel for the type 26 frigates, what hold do they have over Cameron.

    Err...steel is a bulk and universal commodity. Like oil. Or copper. Or refined sugar. It's globally vastly over-produced. We should buy from the best value provider. It is NOT a strategic commodity. China subsidises its vast and inefficient steel industry as a makework exercise. UK taxpayers should be delighted that we're getting cheap steel courtesy of the loony policies of the Chinese leadership and the generosity of the Chinese taxpayer.
    Thank you for injecting a bit of economic common sense.
    Yebut..... if we keep on buying subsidised Chinese steel we will have no local source of production, no steel jobs, no taxes from steel business or employment.... Maybe that's what the Chinese want, destroy competition and then raise prices when they are sole supplier.

    Isn’t that similar to what we did to them in the Opium Wars?
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''They really could lose this.''

    As discussed yesterday, I don;t think Cameron will hold a referendum he might well lose.
  • LondonBobLondonBob Posts: 467
    glw said:

    RobD said:

    Madness, if true.

    A common trick in the 90s when Russian industry was privatised was for the newly privatised industries to appoint firms as exclusive agents. Those agents would buy at the Russian price and export at the market price and pocket the difference. And given that Russia has many of the "world's biggest X" where X is things like oil, aluminium, iron, steel and so on, there was a huge amount of money made but some very nasty people.

    I don't think the situation is quite as blatantly larcenous now, but it is more consolidated and the people in power and the owners of the major industries are now very closely tied.
    Things have approved a lot for them since the 90s Yeltsin era when oligarchs ran wild, poverty exploded and there were shootings in the street, no doubt about that.

    Moscow really impressed me as a city, modern, clean and on a par with the very best European cities.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    Charles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Putin only has 2 more years left in charge of Russia, whereupon a new face will take charge.

    Remember from 2008 - 2012, we had Dmitry Medvedev in charge - his own man and very much a fresh face for Russia.

    Putin intended to retire but then realised his life expectancy post retirement could be measured in weeks, if not days.

    I am told but a reliable source that he has $400bn sitting in Switzerland. I won't name the bank ;)

    Something ironic though, about having all that money and not being able to touch it :smiley:
    Do you believe your source, reliable or not?
    Another source had told me he gets 8% of the top of every oil dollar that Russia earns.

    So it's plausible - although not sure on the precise number
    Doesn't he have friends at Gunvor too?
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    malcolmg said:

    I see the Tories are planning to use Chinese steel for the type 26 frigates, what hold do they have over Cameron.

    The steel choice will be up to BAE Systems, Hertel etc but why let the truth get in the way of a McRant.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Sean_F said:

    Martin Kettle notes this morning that we are approaching the 100th anniversary of the October Revolution. If Jeremy Corbyn is still in power in October 2017, what words do you think he will find to mark this centenary?

    "Comrades, one hundred years ago, Russia achieved freedom. The Tsar, the Priests, the Bourgeoisie, the Kulaks, who had feasted on the blood of workers and peasants for hundreds of years, were rightly liquidated.

    Comrades, let us emulate their example! Let the gutters of Park Lane run with the blood of capitalists; may the last member of the Royal Family be strangled on the guts of the last Bishop! Arise ye starvelings from your slumbers! You have nothing to lose but your chains!"
    Is that the PPB? Roger could produce it.
    I can see it now. Working title: "The Battleship Potemkin (nuclear-free)".
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited 2016 22
    rcs1000 said:

    perdix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Patrick said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see the Tories are planning to use Chinese steel for the type 26 frigates, what hold do they have over Cameron.

    Err...steel is a bulk and universal commodity. Like oil. Or copper. Or refined sugar. It's globally vastly over-produced. We should buy from the best value provider. It is NOT a strategic commodity. China subsidises its vast and inefficient steel industry as a makework exercise. UK taxpayers should be delighted that we're getting cheap steel courtesy of the loony policies of the Chinese leadership and the generosity of the Chinese taxpayer.
    Thank you for injecting a bit of economic common sense.
    Yebut..... if we keep on buying subsidised Chinese steel we will have no local source of production, no steel jobs, no taxes from steel business or employment.... Maybe that's what the Chinese want, destroy competition and then raise prices when they are sole supplier.

    The Chinese government does not set the price at which Chinese firms sell steel any more than the UK government does.

    Truth be told, there is too much steel production in the world. Steel mills are going to close in the UK, in China, in Australia, in Germany and in the US. That is a natural part of the business cycle.

    The most expensive (the so-called "marginal producer") mills will close. Our steel plants are not cheap by world standards. And local demand for steel is modest.

    If we don't have world class steel plants, then we either burden the rest of the economy by supporting them through subsidies or by paying higher prices (which amount to the same thing), or we let them go.

    We need to let them go. Propping up uncompetitive industries is a losing game. And it's one where we all pay the price in the long term.
    All well and good provided we are earning the money to pay for all the imports by flogging our own goods and services overseas, otherwise we are just exporting our diminishing stock of wealth. Currently, and for quite a few years, our current account balance has been horrendous.
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268
    SeanT said:

    Martin Boon
    Apol for late arrival. @ICMResearch #euref weekly tracker: Remain In 42%, Leave 40% DK 17% (51 v 49). website post of data shortly.

    They must be getting worried in Europhile Central (10 Downing St) around about now. This is just too close to be comfortable, and with a spring and summer of migration/eurogeddon to come.

    They really could lose this.

    Relatedly, Dan Hannan speculates that TEN MILLION migrants might arrive in Europe this year. Ten. Million.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3409449/If-Brussels-bullies-like-think-like-vote-stay-writes-Conservative-MEP-DANIEL-HANNAN.html

    Seems unlikely to me, but even if it is just half of that, it could be apocalyptic, presaging LEAVE
    British public don't care how many immigrants go to Germany. They care how many come here.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,755
    malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    glw said:

    RobD said:

    Madness, if true.

    A common trick in the 90s when Russian industry was privatised was for the newly privatised industries to appoint firms as exclusive agents. Those agents would buy at the Russian price and export at the market price and pocket the difference. And given that Russia has many of the "world's biggest X" where X is things like oil, aluminium, iron, steel and so on, there was a huge amount of money made but some very nasty people.

    I don't think the situation is quite as blatantly larcenous now, but it is more consolidated and the people in power and the owners of the major industries are now very closely tied.
    The top 1% in Russia own 70% of the nation's wealth, with 110 Billionaires owning over $10T in assets. The rich-poor gap is way higher there than anywhere else, certainly in the western world.
    Bit like Britain then
    Not really Malc.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PolhomeEditor: EXCL Corbyn allies 'threatened Labour general secretary with sack' over Andrew Fisher probe https://t.co/m0WnCmiAir https://t.co/24x9OdLMkk
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Good analogy.

    When you think of how events are not so much flowing in UKIP's direction as gushing in an enormous torrent, their performance recently has been appalling. Ebsoloot Shaaaarrr!!!

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,244

    SeanT said:

    Martin Boon
    Apol for late arrival. @ICMResearch #euref weekly tracker: Remain In 42%, Leave 40% DK 17% (51 v 49). website post of data shortly.

    They must be getting worried in Europhile Central (10 Downing St) around about now. This is just too close to be comfortable, and with a spring and summer of migration/eurogeddon to come.

    They really could lose this.

    Relatedly, Dan Hannan speculates that TEN MILLION migrants might arrive in Europe this year. Ten. Million.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3409449/If-Brussels-bullies-like-think-like-vote-stay-writes-Conservative-MEP-DANIEL-HANNAN.html

    Seems unlikely to me, but even if it is just half of that, it could be apocalyptic, presaging LEAVE
    British public don't care how many immigrants go to Germany. They care how many come here.
    That's not as true as you'd think. The Daily Mail below-the-line is full of comments from British people using language like 'we' and 'here' talking about Germans and migration to Germany. Perhaps it's the birth of the illusive European demos...
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756
    watford30 said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see the Tories are planning to use Chinese steel for the type 26 frigates, what hold do they have over Cameron.

    The steel choice will be up to BAE Systems, Hertel etc but why let the truth get in the way of a McRant.
    Ha Ha Ha , I believe you
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756
    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    glw said:

    RobD said:

    Madness, if true.

    A common trick in the 90s when Russian industry was privatised was for the newly privatised industries to appoint firms as exclusive agents. Those agents would buy at the Russian price and export at the market price and pocket the difference. And given that Russia has many of the "world's biggest X" where X is things like oil, aluminium, iron, steel and so on, there was a huge amount of money made but some very nasty people.

    I don't think the situation is quite as blatantly larcenous now, but it is more consolidated and the people in power and the owners of the major industries are now very closely tied.
    The top 1% in Russia own 70% of the nation's wealth, with 110 Billionaires owning over $10T in assets. The rich-poor gap is way higher there than anywhere else, certainly in the western world.
    Bit like Britain then
    Not really Malc.
    Maybe not as bad but we are very near top of the league on the rich-poor table for sure, certainly would not be able to lecture Russia on the topic.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,022
    taffys said:

    ''They really could lose this.''

    As discussed yesterday, I don;t think Cameron will hold a referendum he might well lose.

    Is that why he said yesterday he wasn’t in a hurry to hold the referendum?
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    perdix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Patrick said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see the Tories are planning to use Chinese steel for the type 26 frigates, what hold do they have over Cameron.

    Err...steel is a bulk and universal commodity. Like oil. Or copper. Or refined sugar. It's globally vastly over-produced. We should buy from the best value provider. It is NOT a strategic commodity. China subsidises its vast and inefficient steel industry as a makework exercise. UK taxpayers should be delighted that we're getting cheap steel courtesy of the loony policies of the Chinese leadership and the generosity of the Chinese taxpayer.
    Thank you for injecting a bit of economic common sense.
    Yebut..... if we keep on buying subsidised Chinese steel we will have no local source of production, no steel jobs, no taxes from steel business or employment.... Maybe that's what the Chinese want, destroy competition and then raise prices when they are sole supplier.

    Isn’t that similar to what we did to them in the Opium Wars?
    Nah. The opium wars were about balance of trade. We wanted to buy their tea but they would only accept hard cash (well silver actually) in payment. So we started to flog them opium, grown in India, which they paid for in silver we we then used to buy the tea that we wanted. The Chinese didn't like having their population corrupted by narcotics and moved to stop its import. We didn't like that and so we had the opium war, which led amongst other things to the founding of Hong Kong as a colony.

    As a fine point of interest, until the 1970s the cap badge of the Royal Hong Police included a depiction of opium barrels.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756

    rcs1000 said:

    perdix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Patrick said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see the Tories are planning to use Chinese steel for the type 26 frigates, what hold do they have over Cameron.

    Err...steel is a bulk and universal commodity. Like oil. Or copper. Or refined sugar. It's globally vastly over-produced. We should buy from the best value provider. It is NOT a strategic commodity. China subsidises its vast and inefficient steel industry as a makework exercise. UK taxpayers should be delighted that we're getting cheap steel courtesy of the loony policies of the Chinese leadership and the generosity of the Chinese taxpayer.
    Thank you for injecting a bit of economic common sense.
    Yebut..... if we keep on buying subsidised Chinese steel we will have no local source of production, no steel jobs, no taxes from steel business or employment.... Maybe that's what the Chinese want, destroy competition and then raise prices when they are sole supplier.

    The Chinese government does not set the price at which Chinese firms sell steel any more than the UK government does.

    Truth be told, there is too much steel production in the world. Steel mills are going to close in the UK, in China, in Australia, in Germany and in the US. That is a natural part of the business cycle.

    The most expensive (the so-called "marginal producer") mills will close. Our steel plants are not cheap by world standards. And local demand for steel is modest.

    If we don't have world class steel plants, then we either burden the rest of the economy by supporting them through subsidies or by paying higher prices (which amount to the same thing), or we let them go.

    We need to let them go. Propping up uncompetitive industries is a losing game. And it's one where we all pay the price in the long term.
    All well and good provided we are earning the money to pay for all the imports by flogging our own goods and services overseas, otherwise we are just exporting our diminishing stock of wealth. Currently, and for quite a few years, our current account balance has been horrendous.
    Exactly Hurst, I doubt the Chinese will accept hamburgers or coffees as payment when they have cornered the market
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    malcolmg said:

    watford30 said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see the Tories are planning to use Chinese steel for the type 26 frigates, what hold do they have over Cameron.

    The steel choice will be up to BAE Systems, Hertel etc but why let the truth get in the way of a McRant.
    Ha Ha Ha , I believe you
    Steel is bought to spec and price, not country of supply. Doesn't matter whether it's from Scunthorpe, Sweden or Shanghai.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,251
    rcs1000 said:

    perdix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Patrick said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see the Tories are planning to use Chinese steel for the type 26 frigates, what hold do they have over Cameron.

    Err...steel is a bulk and universal commodity. Like oil. Or copper. Or refined sugar. It's globally vastly over-produced. We should buy from the best value provider. It is NOT a strategic commodity. China subsidises its vast and inefficient steel industry as a makework exercise. UK taxpayers should be delighted that we're getting cheap steel courtesy of the loony policies of the Chinese leadership and the generosity of the Chinese taxpayer.
    Thank you for injecting a bit of economic common sense.
    Yebut..... if we keep on buying subsidised Chinese steel we will have no local source of production, no steel jobs, no taxes from steel business or employment.... Maybe that's what the Chinese want, destroy competition and then raise prices when they are sole supplier.

    The Chinese government does not set the price at which Chinese firms sell steel any more than the UK government does.

    Truth be told, there is too much steel production in the world. Steel mills are going to close in the UK, in China, in Australia, in Germany and in the US. That is a natural part of the business cycle.

    The most expensive (the so-called "marginal producer") mills will close. Our steel plants are not cheap by world standards. And local demand for steel is modest.

    If we don't have world class steel plants, then we either burden the rest of the economy by supporting them through subsidies or by paying higher prices (which amount to the same thing), or we let them go.

    We need to let them go. Propping up uncompetitive industries is a losing game. And it's one where we all pay the price in the long term.
    I've asked this before, but steel is not just steel. There are many specialist alloys with various elements added, eg. vanadium, chromium etc.

    Can any mill produce these steels and swap between them easily, or do they require specialist furnaces, crucibles etc?

    Any debate on the industry would rather seem to hang on this question ...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,022

    rcs1000 said:

    perdix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Patrick said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see the Tories are planning to use Chinese steel for the type 26 frigates, what hold do they have over Cameron.

    Err...steel is a bulk and universal commodity. Like oil. Or copper. Or refined sugar. It's globally vastly over-produced. We should buy from the best value provider. It is NOT a strategic commodity. China subsidises its vast and inefficient steel industry as a makework exercise. UK taxpayers should be delighted that we're getting cheap steel courtesy of the loony policies of the Chinese leadership and the generosity of the Chinese taxpayer.
    Thank you for injecting a bit of economic common sense.
    Yebut..... if we keep on buying subsidised Chinese steel we will have no local source of production, no steel jobs, no taxes from steel business or employment.... Maybe that's what the Chinese want, destroy competition and then raise prices when they are sole supplier.

    The Chinese government does not set the price at which Chinese firms sell steel any more than the UK government does.

    Truth be told, there is too much steel production in the world. Steel mills are going to close in the UK, in China, in Australia, in Germany and in the US. That is a natural part of the business cycle.

    The most expensive (the so-called "marginal producer") mills will close. Our steel plants are not cheap by world standards. And local demand for steel is modest.

    If we don't have world class steel plants, then we either burden the rest of the economy by supporting them through subsidies or by paying higher prices (which amount to the same thing), or we let them go.

    We need to let them go. Propping up uncompetitive industries is a losing game. And it's one where we all pay the price in the long term.
    All well and good provided we are earning the money to pay for all the imports by flogging our own goods and services overseas, otherwise we are just exporting our diminishing stock of wealth. Currently, and for quite a few years, our current account balance has been horrendous.
    I seem to recall, Mr L, that once upon at time, it was the current account balance that was featured on the news bulletins.
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Martin Boon
    Apol for late arrival. @ICMResearch #euref weekly tracker: Remain In 42%, Leave 40% DK 17% (51 v 49). website post of data shortly.

    They must be getting worried in Europhile Central (10 Downing St) around about now. This is just too close to be comfortable, and with a spring and summer of migration/eurogeddon to come.

    They really could lose this.

    Relatedly, Dan Hannan speculates that TEN MILLION migrants might arrive in Europe this year. Ten. Million.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3409449/If-Brussels-bullies-like-think-like-vote-stay-writes-Conservative-MEP-DANIEL-HANNAN.html

    Seems unlikely to me, but even if it is just half of that, it could be apocalyptic, presaging LEAVE
    British public don't care how many immigrants go to Germany. They care how many come here.
    As discussed yesterday, the British public are well aware that anyone let in to Germany today could be in the UK in a few years - or less, if Germany relaxes its citizenship laws - or they just decide to sneak in.

    Yesterday also proved that the only people unaware of this self evident fact are pb's most ardent europhiles.
    If that was really that likely, eurosceptics would be running wild with that. But I only ever hear that in internet comments. That suggests analysis is flawed.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    @RobDotHutton Nice quirk of the October Revolution that it's centenary will be in November 2017 (Russia being then on Julian calendar)
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,883
    SeanT said:

    Martin Boon
    Apol for late arrival. @ICMResearch #euref weekly tracker: Remain In 42%, Leave 40% DK 17% (51 v 49). website post of data shortly.

    They must be getting worried in Europhile Central (10 Downing St) around about now. This is just too close to be comfortable, and with a spring and summer of migration/eurogeddon to come.

    They really could lose this.

    Relatedly, Dan Hannan speculates that TEN MILLION migrants might arrive in Europe this year. Ten. Million.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3409449/If-Brussels-bullies-like-think-like-vote-stay-writes-Conservative-MEP-DANIEL-HANNAN.html

    Seems unlikely to me, but even if it is just half of that, it could be apocalyptic, presaging LEAVE
    The latest is:-

    ICM 42/40 Remain

    Panelbase 42/45 Leave

    Yougov 41/42 Leave

    Survation 38/42 Leave

    ORB 36/43 Leave

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,820

    perdix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Patrick said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see the Tories are planning to use Chinese steel for the type 26 frigates, what hold do they have over Cameron.

    Err...steel is a bulk and universal commodity. Like oil. Or copper. Or refined sugar. It's globally vastly over-produced. We should buy from the best value provider. It is NOT a strategic commodity. China subsidises its vast and inefficient steel industry as a makework exercise. UK taxpayers should be delighted that we're getting cheap steel courtesy of the loony policies of the Chinese leadership and the generosity of the Chinese taxpayer.
    Thank you for injecting a bit of economic common sense.
    Yebut..... if we keep on buying subsidised Chinese steel we will have no local source of production, no steel jobs, no taxes from steel business or employment.... Maybe that's what the Chinese want, destroy competition and then raise prices when they are sole supplier.

    Isn’t that similar to what we did to them in the Opium Wars?
    Nah. The opium wars were about balance of trade. We wanted to buy their tea but they would only accept hard cash (well silver actually) in payment. So we started to flog them opium, grown in India, which they paid for in silver we we then used to buy the tea that we wanted. The Chinese didn't like having their population corrupted by narcotics and moved to stop its import. We didn't like that and so we had the opium war, which led amongst other things to the founding of Hong Kong as a colony.

    As a fine point of interest, until the 1970s the cap badge of the Royal Hong Police included a depiction of opium barrels.
    This illustrates the lengths the British will go to for a good cup of tea.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,833
    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    Martin Boon
    Apol for late arrival. @ICMResearch #euref weekly tracker: Remain In 42%, Leave 40% DK 17% (51 v 49). website post of data shortly.

    They must be getting worried in Europhile Central (10 Downing St) around about now. This is just too close to be comfortable, and with a spring and summer of migration/eurogeddon to come.

    They really could lose this.

    Relatedly, Dan Hannan speculates that TEN MILLION migrants might arrive in Europe this year. Ten. Million.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3409449/If-Brussels-bullies-like-think-like-vote-stay-writes-Conservative-MEP-DANIEL-HANNAN.html

    Seems unlikely to me, but even if it is just half of that, it could be apocalyptic, presaging LEAVE
    The latest is:-

    ICM 42/40 Remain

    Panelbase 42/45 Leave

    Yougov 41/42 Leave

    Survation 38/42 Leave

    ORB 36/43 Leave

    Morning all,

    DKs will no doubt be the key. In past it was fairly safe to bet that most DKs will end up with the safety first option and stick with EU. Who knows in these volatile times?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,755
    watford30 said:

    malcolmg said:

    watford30 said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see the Tories are planning to use Chinese steel for the type 26 frigates, what hold do they have over Cameron.

    The steel choice will be up to BAE Systems, Hertel etc but why let the truth get in the way of a McRant.
    Ha Ha Ha , I believe you
    Steel is bought to spec and price, not country of supply. Doesn't matter whether it's from Scunthorpe, Sweden or Shanghai.
    Mild, 304, 310, 316, 321.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''Is that why he said yesterday he wasn’t in a hurry to hold the referendum?''

    I dunno. If the continental European politicians wails are even half right, who knows what Europe we will be dealing with in six months anyway. Don;t know about you, but the world feels very volatile to me right now.

    One strong theme for me is anti elitism. Anti-Davos. That is what is behind the Trump phenomenon.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,022
    edited 2016 22

    perdix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Patrick said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see the Tories are planning to use Chinese steel for the type 26 frigates, what hold do they have over Cameron.

    Err...steel is a bulk and universal commodity. Like oil. Or copper. Or refined sugar. It's globally vastly over-produced. We should buy from the best value provider. It is NOT a strategic commodity. China subsidises its vast and inefficient steel industry as a makework exercise. UK taxpayers should be delighted that we're getting cheap steel courtesy of the loony policies of the Chinese leadership and the generosity of the Chinese taxpayer.
    Thank you for injecting a bit of economic common sense.
    Yebut..... if we keep on buying subsidised Chinese steel we will have no local source of production, no steel jobs, no taxes from steel business or employment.... Maybe that's what the Chinese want, destroy competition and then raise prices when they are sole supplier.

    Isn’t that similar to what we did to them in the Opium Wars?
    Nah. The opium wars were about balance of trade. We wanted to buy their tea but they would only accept hard cash (well silver actually) in payment. So we started to flog them opium, grown in India, which they paid for in silver we we then used to buy the tea that we wanted. The Chinese didn't like having their population corrupted by narcotics and moved to stop its import. We didn't like that and so we had the opium war, which led amongst other things to the founding of Hong Kong as a colony.

    As a fine point of interest, until the 1970s the cap badge of the Royal Hong Police included a depiction of opium barrels.
    Much obliged. Never did learn any 19th C history at school, and haven’t really picked up a lot of “other than western (or Western) "since.
    Pharmaceutically speaking opium was largely an Afghani export in th 50’s.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    rcs1000 said:

    perdix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Patrick said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see the Tories are planning to use Chinese steel for the type 26 frigates, what hold do they have over Cameron.

    Err...steel is a bulk and universal commodity. Like oil. Or copper. Or refined sugar. It's globally vastly over-produced. We should buy from the best value provider. It is NOT a strategic commodity. China subsidises its vast and inefficient steel industry as a makework exercise. UK taxpayers should be delighted that we're getting cheap steel courtesy of the loony policies of the Chinese leadership and the generosity of the Chinese taxpayer.
    Thank you for injecting a bit of economic common sense.
    Yebut..... if we keep on buying subsidised Chinese steel we will have no local source of production, no steel jobs, no taxes from steel business or employment.... Maybe that's what the Chinese want, destroy competition and then raise prices when they are sole supplier.

    The Chinese government does not set the price at which Chinese firms sell steel any more than the UK government does.

    Truth be told, there is too much steel production in the world. Steel mills are going to close in the UK, in China, in Australia, in Germany and in the US. That is a natural part of the business cycle.

    The most expensive (the so-called "marginal producer") mills will close. Our steel plants are not cheap by world standards. And local demand for steel is modest.

    If we don't have world class steel plants, then we either burden the rest of the economy by supporting them through subsidies or by paying higher prices (which amount to the same thing), or we let them go.

    We need to let them go. Propping up uncompetitive industries is a losing game. And it's one where we all pay the price in the long term.
    All well and good provided we are earning the money to pay for all the imports by flogging our own goods and services overseas, otherwise we are just exporting our diminishing stock of wealth. Currently, and for quite a few years, our current account balance has been horrendous.
    I seem to recall, Mr L, that once upon at time, it was the current account balance that was featured on the news bulletins.
    Very true, Mr. Cole, but economists have their fads and fashions and some how it was decided that the current account or balance of payments as it used to be called no longer mattered. Just devaluing the currency or flogging the nation to Russian crooks and Chinese billionaires or some such was all that was needed and we could live high on the hog for ever.
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Martin Boon
    Apol for late arrival. @ICMResearch #euref weekly tracker: Remain In 42%, Leave 40% DK 17% (51 v 49). website post of data shortly.

    They must be getting worried in Europhile Central (10 Downing St) around about now. This is just too close to be comfortable, and with a spring and summer of migration/eurogeddon to come.

    They really could lose this.

    Relatedly, Dan Hannan speculates that TEN MILLION migrants might arrive in Europe this year. Ten. Million.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3409449/If-Brussels-bullies-like-think-like-vote-stay-writes-Conservative-MEP-DANIEL-HANNAN.html

    Seems unlikely to me, but even if it is just half of that, it could be apocalyptic, presaging LEAVE
    British public don't care how many immigrants go to Germany. They care how many come here.
    As discussed yesterday, the British public are well aware that anyone let in to Germany today could be in the UK in a few years - or less, if Germany relaxes its citizenship laws - or they just decide to sneak in.

    Yesterday also proved that the only people unaware of this self evident fact are pb's most ardent europhiles.
    If that was really that likely, eurosceptics would be running wild with that. But I only ever hear that in internet comments. That suggests analysis is flawed.
    You hadn't noticed that immigration/terror is now deemeed THE most important topic by the British voters, shooting up the list in the last few months? You think this has nothing to do with Paris/Cologne?

    And presumably you don't link this to the swing to LEAVE now being shown in various polls?

    You might be better off commenting on a less demanding website.
    So why do you think eurosceptics aren't making this argument on the telly? Why aren't think tanks making estimates of how many will come here?

    I spose they could be waiting for final couple of weeks to drop such estimates.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,161
    Would anyone like a bet with me?

    £1,000 says Germany does not loosen it's citizenship requirements in the next 12 months.

    SeanT?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,755
    Looks like the Saffers have found an opener.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited 2016 22
    x
    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    Martin Boon
    Apol for late arrival. @ICMResearch #euref weekly tracker: Remain In 42%, Leave 40% DK 17% (51 v 49). website post of data shortly.

    They must be getting worried in Europhile Central (10 Downing St) around about now. This is just too close to be comfortable, and with a spring and summer of migration/eurogeddon to come.

    They really could lose this.

    Relatedly, Dan Hannan speculates that TEN MILLION migrants might arrive in Europe this year. Ten. Million.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3409449/If-Brussels-bullies-like-think-like-vote-stay-writes-Conservative-MEP-DANIEL-HANNAN.html

    Seems unlikely to me, but even if it is just half of that, it could be apocalyptic, presaging LEAVE
    The latest is:-

    ICM 42/40 Remain

    Panelbase 42/45 Leave

    Yougov 41/42 Leave

    Survation 38/42 Leave

    ORB 36/43 Leave

    Yep, there's been a definite swing to LEAVE and I am sure it is migration/terror that's doing it. i.e. I do not believe the British public have been swayed by earnest Spectator articles about greater free trading opportunities in the EEA and EFTA as against the EU.
    Of course it is, you are bang right

    Only political nerds (guilty) are even aware of EEA EFTA etc, prob less than 1% of voters. And most of them think its boring.

    Cologne/Calais etc will win it for LEAVE if LEAVE is to win. The beauty of it is that LEAVE don't have to mention it... its regularly on every pro EU news broadcast and every pro EU newspapers front page, juxtaposed with establishment suits telling us we are better off in. The perfect storm
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,450
    taffys said:

    ''Is that why he said yesterday he wasn’t in a hurry to hold the referendum?''

    I dunno. If the continental European politicians wails are even half right, who knows what Europe we will be dealing with in six months anyway. Don;t know about you, but the world feels very volatile to me right now.

    One strong theme for me is anti elitism. Anti-Davos. That is what is behind the Trump phenomenon.

    Yes, I think Dave is barking up the wrong tree if he thinks getting a bunch of European politicians and business people campaigning for remain is going to help them. If anything it will push ordinary people towards leave.

    The first reaction from my mum (very disengaged in politics) when we were watching the news last night was "who are all these people to tell us how to vote". Once I explained they were CEOs and European leaders, she was even less impressed.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,757
    Guido

    UKIP sources say they won't pursue Tories over illegal South Thanet limit busting election spending in #GE2015 because they did it as well.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @CJTerry: Tatler list of 'people who really matter' has Ed M at 331, Jeremy Corbyn not on list at all. Tatler has spoken https://t.co/EEHXoFyuXH
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3410067/Merkel-s-migrant-backlash-refugees-turn-German-leader-sue-government-taking-long-process-asylum-claims.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline
    The German government has announced that border checks on migrants will 'continue indefinitely' as the country faces unprecedented levels of immigration.

    Speaking to German radio station MDR, interior minister Thomas de Maiziere admitted the new restrictions, introduced in September, will remain for the foreseeable future.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    LondonBob said:
    Still a question mark over whether Trump's actual support tallies with the polls. But he's so far ahead in NH they won't make a difference (only a late swing could stop him) but in Iowa it would.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    For posters who fret about Muslims.....the world's most populous Muslim country, Indonesia, is overwhelmingly opposed to ISIS and their works:

    http://jakarta.coconuts.co/2016/01/22/survey-says-953-indonesians-rejected-isis-back-december

    And this survey was conducted before the most recent bomb attacks in Jakarta.....
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    perdix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Patrick said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see the Tories are planning to use Chinese steel for the type 26 frigates, what hold do they have over Cameron.

    Err...steel is a bulk and universal commodity. Like oil. Or copper. Or refined sugar. It's globally vastly over-produced. We should buy from the best value provider. It is NOT a strategic commodity. China subsidises its vast and inefficient steel industry as a makework exercise. UK taxpayers should be delighted that we're getting cheap steel courtesy of the loony policies of the Chinese leadership and the generosity of the Chinese taxpayer.
    Thank you for injecting a bit of economic common sense.
    Yebut..... if we keep on buying subsidised Chinese steel we will have no local source of production, no steel jobs, no taxes from steel business or employment.... Maybe that's what the Chinese want, destroy competition and then raise prices when they are sole supplier.

    Isn’t that similar to what we did to them in the Opium Wars?
    Nah. The opium wars were about balance of trade. We wanted to buy their tea but they would only accept hard cash (well silver actually) in payment. So we started to flog them opium, grown in India, which they paid for in silver we we then used to buy the tea that we wanted. The Chinese didn't like having their population corrupted by narcotics and moved to stop its import. We didn't like that and so we had the opium war, which led amongst other things to the founding of Hong Kong as a colony.

    As a fine point of interest, until the 1970s the cap badge of the Royal Hong Police included a depiction of opium barrels.
    Classy bunch, the taipans
This discussion has been closed.