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  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Mr. Llama, reading a biography of William Marshal at the minute.

    I think Henry II's approach to succession was fantastically incompetent. Up to about 1194. John isn't even king yet, but he's already a total arse.

    Interesting character was Marshall. A very brave man for sure but a ruthless self-publicist and businessman. He was, you know, the first secular person other than a monarch to have a biography written about him.

    As for Henry II, he did a good job in beating up the Frogs but was not, in my view a good king. He was certainly a lousy father which is why the succession after him was such a mess (remember before we got to John we had Richard).
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Re Dr Fox acquittal.

    We really need an independent investigation into the police / CPS. It appears they have spent a huge amount of money and police time bringing innocent celebs to trial and / or are totally incompetent in putting together cases. And how many journos have been taken to court for phone hacking and their cases fallen apart.

    The William Roache investigation one was just jaw dropping the incompetence. Witness stories didn't stack up at all and the defence pulled them apart with ease. Things like claims of which houses they were taken to, when they were taken there, in which cars, all of which was found to be incorrect with mostly information in public records.

    Also remember that Rolf Harris only went down because a member of the public came forward late in the trial with new evidence, the police / CPS lawyers hadn't checked things out properly and Harris was claiming he had watertight alibi for one of the major allegations and the CPS case was actually shafted until the new evidence was allowed to be admitted right towards the end.

    Cliff Richard, Freddie Starr, the list goes on. A witness in the Ken Barlow trial said he raped her at his house and when she went back 3 days later he raped her again.

    The damage done to careers is inestimable, driven by greed by lawyers and attention seekers. Of course it now makes the prosecution in genuine assault cases more difficult.
    Also in the William Roche trial, they interviewed a witness who had her currently partner sitting in on the interview who answered questions for her.
    The DPP is now a Labour MP
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Dair said:


    No, the point is that a number of DIFFERENT decisions were made.

    The decisions the SNP got to make, they made correctly. The decisions FETA got to make, they made correctly.

    The decisions Labour got to make. They have chosen... poorly.

    Oh I see. The fact that this bridge has suddenly had to be closed because it is in a dangerous state is the result of people making correct decisions. Forgive me, I am not used to the Scottish way of doing things
    I guess it comes down to the choice of government you want.

    It seems that PB Tories are very happy with a spendthrift Conservative government in Westminster whose solution is generally to throw money at things for no detectable benefit (vis a vis the extra 15% they ploughed into NHS England for exactly the same outcomes).

    While in Scotland, we prefer a thrifty SNP government, who tries to get value out of every penny they spend (hence spending the same on the NHS as 8 years ago with significantly improved outcomes).

    I do love the irony of these types of issue when they occur and the PB Tories scream SNP Bad for the SNP being more fiscally Tory than the Tories,

    It's no wonder Osborne keeps copying what Swinney does.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    Mr. Llama, I did not know that. An interesting snippet.

    Being a bit full of yourself seems par for the course in that era, though he does seem the most loyal chap imaginable (to his patrons).

    Aye, I might write a blog about whether Diocletian, Charlemagne or Henry II cocked up succession the worse.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    Omnium said:

    Re Dr Fox acquittal.

    We really need an independent investigation into the police / CPS. It appears they have spent a huge amount of money and police time bringing innocent celebs to trial and / or are totally incompetent in putting together cases. And how many journos have been taken to court for phone hacking and their cases fallen apart.

    The William Roache investigation one was just jaw dropping the incompetence. Witness stories didn't stack up at all and the defence pulled them apart with ease. Things like claims of which houses they were taken to, when they were taken there, in which cars, all of which was found to be incorrect with mostly information in public records.

    Also remember that Rolf Harris only went down because a member of the public came forward late in the trial with new evidence, the police / CPS lawyers hadn't checked things out properly and Harris was claiming he had watertight alibi for one of the major allegations and the CPS case was actually shafted until the new evidence was allowed to be admitted right towards the end.

    Cliff Richard, Freddie Starr, the list goes on. A witness in the Ken Barlow trial said he raped her at his house and when she went back 3 days later he raped her again.

    The damage done to careers is inestimable, driven by greed by lawyers and attention seekers. Of course it now makes the prosecution in genuine assault cases more difficult.
    "and when she went back 3 days later" - The case should be thrown out on that.

    I'm surprised Kid Jensen wasn't arrested
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624

    Re Dr Fox acquittal.

    We really need an independent investigation into the police / CPS. It appears they have spent a huge amount of money and police time bringing innocent celebs to trial and / or are totally incompetent in putting together cases. And how many journos have been taken to court for phone hacking and their cases fallen apart.

    The William Roache investigation one was just jaw dropping the incompetence. Witness stories didn't stack up at all and the defence pulled them apart with ease. Things like claims of which houses they were taken to, when they were taken there, in which cars, all of which was found to be incorrect with mostly information in public records.

    Also remember that Rolf Harris only went down because a member of the public came forward late in the trial with new evidence, the police / CPS lawyers hadn't checked things out properly and Harris was claiming he had watertight alibi for one of the major allegations and the CPS case was actually shafted until the new evidence was allowed to be admitted right towards the end.

    Cliff Richard, Freddie Starr, the list goes on. A witness in the Ken Barlow trial said he raped her at his house and when she went back 3 days later he raped her again.

    The damage done to careers is inestimable, driven by greed by lawyers and attention seekers. Of course it now makes the prosecution in genuine assault cases more difficult.
    And the final bit is key. If you are a victim, what confidence can you have when the it appears the CPS are making a mess of practically every high profile case.

    We could also of course talk about their handling of Leon Brittain case, and more recently the incredibly situation of the plod standing outside Ted Heath's house making very ill advised statements appealing for people to come forward.

    The past 2-3 years have been a disaster, the plod / CPS just look like a joke.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,744
    @MSmithsonPB: Ted Cruz ahead in another Iowa GOP nomination poll - Fox News

    Cruz 28%
    Trump 26%
    Rubio 13%
    Carson 10%
    Iowa is 1st state to decide
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    Mr. Urquhart, there's also the failure to stop the disgrace happening in Rotherham and elsewhere.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,598

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    FPT: Miss Cyclefree, I remember being taught at school that charity was largely poor people in rich countries giving to rich people in poor countries.

    You were indoctrinated by right-wing ideologues in school? Has Ofsted been informed of this sinister infiltration of our system?
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited 2015 14

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    TGOHF said:

    Dair said:


    The Liberal councillor who was chair of FETA said that no work was required at the time.

    So you are admitting catastrophically slack oversight by the FM's office of this critical transport quango ?
    Yes. Jack McConnell's oversight was indeed catatrophic.
    The SNP Scottish Government has done everything right.
    FETA have probably done everything right. Instead of close the bridge for maintenance that may not have been needed, they kept it open. All that happened now is something that would have happened in 2011 or 2012.
    The Labour Scottish Executive have harmed Scotland badly, by failing to build a bridge even though it had the money available and indeed returned it to Westminster to waste.
    Is this satire?

    The SNP been in power since 2007.
    SNP had news of need for maintenance in 2009
    SNP govt have been underspending in a time of alleged austerity.
    But its everybody's fault except the SNP!
    You are the new Defoe , a veritable Shadwell amongst posters.
    The SNP have been in power since 2007.
    FETA had an opportunity to close the bridge for maintenance in 2010.
    The SNP are running down a retiring asset. Cutting the cash is sensible.
    It's SLAB's fault, entirely, for failing to replace the bridge in 2006 with £1.5bn of money it had sitting in its bank account.
    Your argument is in short that the problem is everyone's fault except the people were actually in charge. A remarkable philosophy and I wonder if you carry it over into other aspects of life.
    If something goes right, it's all down to the SNP who can revel in the glory. If it goes pear shaped, everyone else is to blame. The world according to Dair.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,744

    Re Dr Fox acquittal.

    We really need an independent investigation into the police / CPS. It appears they have spent a huge amount of money and police time bringing innocent celebs to trial and / or are totally incompetent in putting together cases. And how many journos have been taken to court for phone hacking and their cases fallen apart.

    The William Roache investigation one was just jaw dropping the incompetence. Witness stories didn't stack up at all and the defence pulled them apart with ease. Things like claims of which houses they were taken to, when they were taken there, in which cars, all of which was found to be incorrect with mostly information in public records.

    Also remember that Rolf Harris only went down because a member of the public came forward late in the trial with new evidence, the police / CPS lawyers hadn't checked things out properly and Harris was claiming he had watertight alibi for one of the major allegations and the CPS case was actually shafted until the new evidence was allowed to be admitted right towards the end.

    Cliff Richard, Freddie Starr, the list goes on. A witness in the Ken Barlow trial said he raped her at his house and when she went back 3 days later he raped her again.

    The damage done to careers is inestimable, driven by greed by lawyers and attention seekers. Of course it now makes the prosecution in genuine assault cases more difficult.
    And the final bit is key. If you are a victim, what confidence can you have when the it appears the CPS are making a mess of practically every high profile case.

    We could also of course talk about their handling of Leon Brittain case, and more recently the incredibly situation of the plod standing outside Ted Heath's house making very ill advised statements appealing for people to come forward.

    The past 2-3 years have been a disaster, the plod / CPS just look like a joke.
    The Nigel Evans case was also 'interesting' when one of the victims said "It's the sort of thing that happens in every bar. It wasn't a big deal."
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624

    Mr. Urquhart, there's also the failure to stop the disgrace happening in Rotherham and elsewhere.

    Yes absolutely. How can you get so few prosecutions out of 1400+ cases. It only came to light because the Alexis Jay kinda of went off the reservation. She wasn't supposed to be doing the job she did.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    Mr. Palmer, indoctrinated? Me?

    Good sir, cast your aspersions at those believers in the folly that Caesar is a better general than Hannibal.

    [On a serious note, that was offered as a view of charity given how African despots never seemed to lack their private planes and palaces, even when charity money was flooding in to try and help their people].
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2015 14

    Re Dr Fox acquittal.

    We really need an independent investigation into the police / CPS. It appears they have spent a huge amount of money and police time bringing innocent celebs to trial and / or are totally incompetent in putting together cases. And how many journos have been taken to court for phone hacking and their cases fallen apart.

    The William Roache investigation one was just jaw dropping the incompetence. Witness stories didn't stack up at all and the defence pulled them apart with ease. Things like claims of which houses they were taken to, when they were taken there, in which cars, all of which was found to be incorrect with mostly information in public records.

    Also remember that Rolf Harris only went down because a member of the public came forward late in the trial with new evidence, the police / CPS lawyers hadn't checked things out properly and Harris was claiming he had watertight alibi for one of the major allegations and the CPS case was actually shafted until the new evidence was allowed to be admitted right towards the end.

    Cliff Richard, Freddie Starr, the list goes on. A witness in the Ken Barlow trial said he raped her at his house and when she went back 3 days later he raped her again.

    The damage done to careers is inestimable, driven by greed by lawyers and attention seekers. Of course it now makes the prosecution in genuine assault cases more difficult.
    And the final bit is key. If you are a victim, what confidence can you have when the it appears the CPS are making a mess of practically every high profile case.

    We could also of course talk about their handling of Leon Brittain case, and more recently the incredibly situation of the plod standing outside Ted Heath's house making very ill advised statements appealing for people to come forward.

    The past 2-3 years have been a disaster, the plod / CPS just look like a joke.
    The Nigel Evans case was also 'interesting' when one of the victims said "It's the sort of thing that happens in every bar. It wasn't a big deal."
    Forgot about that one. The list from the past 2-3 years is massive when you start to look at it.

    Some of the people involved as well have been left hanging for far far too long. I understand these investigations can be complex, but Paul Gambaccini I seemed to remember was left hanging for over a year.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Dair said:

    Dair said:


    No, the point is that a number of DIFFERENT decisions were made.

    The decisions the SNP got to make, they made correctly. The decisions FETA got to make, they made correctly.

    The decisions Labour got to make. They have chosen... poorly.

    Oh I see. The fact that this bridge has suddenly had to be closed because it is in a dangerous state is the result of people making correct decisions. Forgive me, I am not used to the Scottish way of doing things
    I guess it comes down to the choice of government you want.

    It seems that PB Tories are very happy with a spendthrift Conservative government in Westminster whose solution is generally to throw money at things for no detectable benefit (vis a vis the extra 15% they ploughed into NHS England for exactly the same outcomes).

    While in Scotland, we prefer a thrifty SNP government, who tries to get value out of every penny they spend (hence spending the same on the NHS as 8 years ago with significantly improved outcomes).

    I do love the irony of these types of issue when they occur and the PB Tories scream SNP Bad for the SNP being more fiscally Tory than the Tories,

    It's no wonder Osborne keeps copying what Swinney does.
    It's no wonder people scream SNP Bad when idiots keep screaming SNP Good, flying in the face of all logic.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Dair said:

    Dair said:


    No, the point is that a number of DIFFERENT decisions were made.

    The decisions the SNP got to make, they made correctly. The decisions FETA got to make, they made correctly.

    The decisions Labour got to make. They have chosen... poorly.

    Oh I see. The fact that this bridge has suddenly had to be closed because it is in a dangerous state is the result of people making correct decisions. Forgive me, I am not used to the Scottish way of doing things
    I guess it comes down to the choice of government you want.

    It seems that PB Tories are very happy with a spendthrift Conservative government in Westminster whose solution is generally to throw money at things for no detectable benefit (vis a vis the extra 15% they ploughed into NHS England for exactly the same outcomes).

    While in Scotland, we prefer a thrifty SNP government, who tries to get value out of every penny they spend (hence spending the same on the NHS as 8 years ago with significantly improved outcomes).

    I do love the irony of these types of issue when they occur and the PB Tories scream SNP Bad for the SNP being more fiscally Tory than the Tories,

    It's no wonder Osborne keeps copying what Swinney does.
    You are Lewis Caroll and I clam my £5
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Re Dr Fox acquittal.

    We really need an independent investigation into the police / CPS. It appears they have spent a huge amount of money and police time bringing innocent celebs to trial and / or are totally incompetent in putting together cases. And how many journos have been taken to court for phone hacking and their cases fallen apart.

    The William Roache investigation one was just jaw dropping the incompetence. Witness stories didn't stack up at all and the defence pulled them apart with ease. Things like claims of which houses they were taken to, when they were taken there, in which cars, all of which was found to be incorrect with mostly information in public records.

    Also remember that Rolf Harris only went down because a member of the public came forward late in the trial with new evidence, the police / CPS lawyers hadn't checked things out properly and Harris was claiming he had watertight alibi for one of the major allegations and the CPS case was actually shafted until the new evidence was allowed to be admitted right towards the end.

    Cliff Richard, Freddie Starr, the list goes on. A witness in the Ken Barlow trial said he raped her at his house and when she went back 3 days later he raped her again.

    The damage done to careers is inestimable, driven by greed by lawyers and attention seekers. Of course it now makes the prosecution in genuine assault cases more difficult.
    And the final bit is key. If you are a victim, what confidence can you have when the it appears the CPS are making a mess of practically every high profile case.

    We could also of course talk about their handling of Leon Brittain case, and more recently the incredibly situation of the plod standing outside Ted Heath's house making very ill advised statements appealing for people to come forward.

    The past 2-3 years have been a disaster, the plod / CPS just look like a joke.
    The Nigel Evans case was also 'interesting' when one of the victims said "It's the sort of thing that happens in every bar. It wasn't a big deal."
    Isn't that the one where the bloke woke up and Evans was rodgering him? Call me old fashioned........

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624

    Re Dr Fox acquittal.

    We really need an independent investigation into the police / CPS. It appears they have spent a huge amount of money and police time bringing innocent celebs to trial and / or are totally incompetent in putting together cases. And how many journos have been taken to court for phone hacking and their cases fallen apart.

    The William Roache investigation one was just jaw dropping the incompetence. Witness stories didn't stack up at all and the defence pulled them apart with ease. Things like claims of which houses they were taken to, when they were taken there, in which cars, all of which was found to be incorrect with mostly information in public records.

    Also remember that Rolf Harris only went down because a member of the public came forward late in the trial with new evidence, the police / CPS lawyers hadn't checked things out properly and Harris was claiming he had watertight alibi for one of the major allegations and the CPS case was actually shafted until the new evidence was allowed to be admitted right towards the end.

    Cliff Richard, Freddie Starr, the list goes on. A witness in the Ken Barlow trial said he raped her at his house and when she went back 3 days later he raped her again.

    The damage done to careers is inestimable, driven by greed by lawyers and attention seekers. Of course it now makes the prosecution in genuine assault cases more difficult.
    And the final bit is key. If you are a victim, what confidence can you have when the it appears the CPS are making a mess of practically every high profile case.

    We could also of course talk about their handling of Leon Brittain case, and more recently the incredibly situation of the plod standing outside Ted Heath's house making very ill advised statements appealing for people to come forward.

    The past 2-3 years have been a disaster, the plod / CPS just look like a joke.
    The Nigel Evans case was also 'interesting' when one of the victims said "It's the sort of thing that happens in every bar. It wasn't a big deal."
    Isn't that the one where the bloke woke up and Evans was rodgering him? Call me old fashioned........

    Careful now...
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,548

    Re Dr Fox acquittal.

    We really need an independent investigation into the police / CPS. It appears they have spent a huge amount of money and police time bringing innocent celebs to trial and / or are totally incompetent in putting together cases. And how many journos have been taken to court for phone hacking and their cases fallen apart.

    The William Roache investigation one was just jaw dropping the incompetence. Witness stories didn't stack up at all and the defence pulled them apart with ease. Things like claims of which houses they were taken to, when they were taken there, in which cars, all of which was found to be incorrect with mostly information in public records.

    Also remember that Rolf Harris only went down because a member of the public came forward late in the trial with new evidence, the police / CPS lawyers hadn't checked things out properly and Harris was claiming he had watertight alibi for one of the major allegations and the CPS case was actually shafted until the new evidence was allowed to be admitted right towards the end.

    Cliff Richard, Freddie Starr, the list goes on. A witness in the Ken Barlow trial said he raped her at his house and when she went back 3 days later he raped her again.

    The damage done to careers is inestimable, driven by greed by lawyers and attention seekers. Of course it now makes the prosecution in genuine assault cases more difficult.
    And the final bit is key. If you are a victim, what confidence can you have when the it appears the CPS are making a mess of practically every high profile case.

    We could also of course talk about their handling of Leon Brittain case, and more recently the incredibly situation of the plod standing outside Ted Heath's house making very ill advised statements appealing for people to come forward.

    The past 2-3 years have been a disaster, the plod / CPS just look like a joke.
    Longer than that. And not just in these sorts of cases. In one case I was involved in the police DCI had to apologise to me for the gross incompetence of the CPS who seemed totally unaware of or deliberately oblivious to the rules governing the collection of relevant material and its disclosure to the defence.

    And there is a lot of churn as well at the National Crime Agency with the SFO making the latest of its many attempts to turn itself into a bird which can actually fly.

  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Re Dr Fox acquittal.

    We really need an independent investigation into the police / CPS. It appears they have spent a huge amount of money and police time bringing innocent celebs to trial and / or are totally incompetent in putting together cases. And how many journos have been taken to court for phone hacking and their cases fallen apart.

    The William Roache investigation one was just jaw dropping the incompetence. Witness stories didn't stack up at all and the defence pulled them apart with ease. Things like claims of which houses they were taken to, when they were taken there, in which cars, all of which was found to be incorrect with mostly information in public records.

    Also remember that Rolf Harris only went down because a member of the public came forward late in the trial with new evidence, the police / CPS lawyers hadn't checked things out properly and Harris was claiming he had watertight alibi for one of the major allegations and the CPS case was actually shafted until the new evidence was allowed to be admitted right towards the end.

    Cliff Richard, Freddie Starr, the list goes on. A witness in the Ken Barlow trial said he raped her at his house and when she went back 3 days later he raped her again.

    The damage done to careers is inestimable, driven by greed by lawyers and attention seekers. Of course it now makes the prosecution in genuine assault cases more difficult.
    And the final bit is key. If you are a victim, what confidence can you have when the it appears the CPS are making a mess of practically every high profile case.

    We could also of course talk about their handling of Leon Brittain case, and more recently the incredibly situation of the plod standing outside Ted Heath's house making very ill advised statements appealing for people to come forward.

    The past 2-3 years have been a disaster, the plod / CPS just look like a joke.
    The Nigel Evans case was also 'interesting' when one of the victims said "It's the sort of thing that happens in every bar. It wasn't a big deal."
    Isn't that the one where the bloke woke up and Evans was rodgering him? Call me old fashioned........

    Careful now...
    Fair point but how does this nonsense ever get to court ffs. I'd never heard of Evans before the case, the poor bloke must have been in pieces.

    Compare him to Yeo who deserves everything coming.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,882

    Re Dr Fox acquittal.



    Also remember that Rolf Harris only went down because a member of the public came forward late in the trial with new evidence, the police / CPS lawyers hadn't checked things out properly and Harris was claiming he had watertight alibi for one of the major allegations and the CPS case was actually shafted until the new evidence was allowed to be admitted right towards the end.

    Cliff Richard, Freddie Starr, the list goes on. A witness in the Ken Barlow trial said he raped her at his house and when she went back 3 days later he raped her again.

    The damage done to careers is inestimable, driven by greed by lawyers and attention seekers. Of course it now makes the prosecution in genuine assault cases more difficult.

    The past 2-3 years have been a disaster, the plod / CPS just look like a joke.
    The Nigel Evans case was also 'interesting' when one of the victims said "It's the sort of thing that happens in every bar. It wasn't a big deal."

    Re Dr Fox acquittal.

    We really need an independent investigation into the police / CPS. It appears they have spent a huge amount of money and police time bringing innocent celebs to trial and / or are totally incompetent in putting together cases. And how many journos have been taken to court for phone hacking and their cases fallen apart.

    until the new evidence was allowed to be admitted right towards the end.

    Cliff Richard, Freddie Starr, the list goes on. A witness in the Ken Barlow trial said he raped her at his house and when she went back 3 days later he raped her again.

    The damage done to careers is inestimable, driven by greed by lawyers and attention seekers. Of course it now makes the prosecution in genuine assault cases more difficult.
    And the final bit is key. If you are a victim, what confidence can you have when the it appears the CPS are making a mess of practically every high profile case.

    We could also of course talk about their handling of Leon Brittain case, and more recently the incredibly situation of the plod standing outside Ted Heath's house making very ill advised statements appealing for people to come forward.

    The past 2-3 years have been a disaster, the plod / CPS just look like a joke.
    The Nigel Evans case was also 'interesting' when one of the victims said "It's the sort of thing that happens in every bar. It wasn't a big deal."
    I suppose that depends on the bar.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited 2015 14

    ...

    Aye, I might write a blog about whether Diocletian, Charlemagne or Henry II cocked up succession the worse.

    I don't know about the other two but Henry did actually have three of his sons (Henry, Richard, and Geoffrey) and his own wife in armed revolt amounting to civil war against him not once but twice (though on the return match Richard dropped out, only to launch his own rebellion in 1189). It terms of a dysfunctional family Henry had one the worst on record.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,744

    Re Dr Fox acquittal.

    We really need an independent investigation into the police / CPS. It appears they have spent a huge amount of money and police time bringing innocent celebs to trial and / or are totally incompetent in putting together cases. And how many journos have been taken to court for phone hacking and their cases fallen apart.

    The William Roache investigation one was just jaw dropping the incompetence. Witness stories didn't stack up at all and the defence pulled them apart with ease. Things like claims of which houses they were taken to, when they were taken there, in which cars, all of which was found to be incorrect with mostly information in public records.

    Also remember that Rolf Harris only went down because a member of the public came forward late in the trial with new evidence, the police / CPS lawyers hadn't checked things out properly and Harris was claiming he had watertight alibi for one of the major allegations and the CPS case was actually shafted until the new evidence was allowed to be admitted right towards the end.

    Cliff Richard, Freddie Starr, the list goes on. A witness in the Ken Barlow trial said he raped her at his house and when she went back 3 days later he raped her again.

    The damage done to careers is inestimable, driven by greed by lawyers and attention seekers. Of course it now makes the prosecution in genuine assault cases more difficult.
    And the final bit is key. If you are a victim, what confidence can you have when the it appears the CPS are making a mess of practically every high profile case.

    We could also of course talk about their handling of Leon Brittain case, and more recently the incredibly situation of the plod standing outside Ted Heath's house making very ill advised statements appealing for people to come forward.

    The past 2-3 years have been a disaster, the plod / CPS just look like a joke.
    The Nigel Evans case was also 'interesting' when one of the victims said "It's the sort of thing that happens in every bar. It wasn't a big deal."
    Isn't that the one where the bloke woke up and Evans was rodgering him? Call me old fashioned........

    Call me old fashioned, but I think I'm going to trust a jury who sat through the evidence and came to a decision than some bloke spouting off on the internet.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Re the Evans case, poor bloke, is he allowed to prosecute his accuser in such a case?

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/apr/10/nigel-evans-cleared-raping-university-student
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,164
    Oil!

    Lucky the Scottish people had the sense that they were born with....
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @NaeBorder: The worst place for poor students in the UK? Scotland https://t.co/gF3rLwY8jC
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Oh good, an Osborne is crap thread! I don't think he would be a good PM at all. He would be Brown all over again. Hopefully someone like Priti Patel can barge in on the leadership election. She is a bit unsteady at times, but with some decent coaching she could be a really good leader/PM.

    If you need coaching on leadership by middle age you're not PM material.

    Margaret Thatcher needed it, I hardly think she wasn't PM material given that she was our greatest peace time PM.
    Coaching was on presentation and I agree with you that Pritti would benefit from it and ending the robotic repitition of the Govt line to take.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Re Dr Fox acquittal.

    We really need an independent investigation into the police / CPS. It appears they have spent a huge amount of money and police time bringing innocent celebs to trial and / or are totally incompetent in putting together cases. And how many journos have been taken to court for phone hacking and their cases fallen apart.

    The William Roache investigation one was just jaw dropping the incompetence. Witness stories didn't stack up at all and the defence pulled them apart with ease. Things like claims of which houses they were taken to, when they were taken there, in which cars, all of which was found to be incorrect with mostly information in public records.

    Also remember that Rolf Harris only went down because a member of the public came forward late in the trial with new evidence, the police / CPS lawyers hadn't checked things out properly and Harris was claiming he had watertight alibi for one of the major allegations and the CPS case was actually shafted until the new evidence was allowed to be admitted right towards the end.

    Cliff Richard, Freddie Starr, the list goes on. A witness in the Ken Barlow trial said he raped her at his house and when she went back 3 days later he raped her again.

    The damage done to careers is inestimable, driven by greed by lawyers and attention seekers. Of course it now makes the prosecution in genuine assault cases more difficult.
    And the final bit is key. If you are a victim, what confidence can you have when the it appears the CPS are making a mess of practically every high profile case.

    We could also of course talk about their handling of Leon Brittain case, and more recently the incredibly situation of the plod standing outside Ted Heath's house making very ill advised statements appealing for people to come forward.

    The past 2-3 years have been a disaster, the plod / CPS just look like a joke.
    The Nigel Evans case was also 'interesting' when one of the victims said "It's the sort of thing that happens in every bar. It wasn't a big deal."
    Isn't that the one where the bloke woke up and Evans was rodgering him? Call me old fashioned........

    Call me old fashioned, but I think I'm going to trust a jury who sat through the evidence and came to a decision than some bloke spouting off on the internet.
    So what's your point?

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    Mr. Llama, Charlemagne practised hereditary partition, which split his empire between sons. You can guess how that worked out.

    Diocletian shifted Rome to the tetrarchy with two senior emperors (Augusti) and two junior (Caesars). It actually worked when he was in charge, but when he retired (the only emperor to willingly abdicate), it utterly collapsed. I believe there were six rival emperors in one year.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,548

    Mr. Palmer, indoctrinated? Me?

    Good sir, cast your aspersions at those believers in the folly that Caesar is a better general than Hannibal.

    [On a serious note, that was offered as a view of charity given how African despots never seemed to lack their private planes and palaces, even when charity money was flooding in to try and help their people].

    A cynic might say that Western Aid to Africa is a clever way of inflating the London property market via Swiss banks.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,882

    ...

    Aye, I might write a blog about whether Diocletian, Charlemagne or Henry II cocked up succession the worse.

    I don't know about the other two but Henry did actually have three of his sons (Henry, Richard, and Geoffrey) and his own wife in armed revolt amounting to civil war against him not once but twice (though on the return match Richard dropped out, only to launch his own rebellion in 1189). It terms of a dysfunctional family Henry had one the worst on record.
    Not a patch on the Julio-Claudians.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    Re: Main article, I agree with OGH. Osborne is piling up the reasons not to be selected. I also suspect that he wants an early referendum so that he can have 3 to 4 years to rehabilitate his europhile image within the party.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,449

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Oh good, an Osborne is crap thread! I don't think he would be a good PM at all. He would be Brown all over again. Hopefully someone like Priti Patel can barge in on the leadership election. She is a bit unsteady at times, but with some decent coaching she could be a really good leader/PM.

    If you need coaching on leadership by middle age you're not PM material.

    Margaret Thatcher needed it, I hardly think she wasn't PM material given that she was our greatest peace time PM.
    She had coaching on leadership? You amaze me tbh

    On presentation, which is what Priti needs.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,744
    edited 2015 14

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Oh good, an Osborne is crap thread! I don't think he would be a good PM at all. He would be Brown all over again. Hopefully someone like Priti Patel can barge in on the leadership election. She is a bit unsteady at times, but with some decent coaching she could be a really good leader/PM.

    If you need coaching on leadership by middle age you're not PM material.

    Margaret Thatcher needed it, I hardly think she wasn't PM material given that she was our greatest peace time PM.
    Coaching was on presentation and I agree with you that Pritti would benefit from it and ending the robotic repitition of the Govt line to take.
    She also gave the worst support of the death penalty* I have ever seen. Her argument was I paraphrase 'Only the guilty people are found guilty, innocent people aren't found guilty, so the death penalty will be fine'

    I was like, Oh hun.

    *Though I maintain that there is no way anyone senisble can support the death penalty
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    Mr. F, point of order: there was never civil war during the Julio-Claudian dynasty.

    Miss Cyclefree, careful, or Mr. Palmer will report you to the Corbyn Re-education Committee.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2015 14
    I see the Guardian are back on the biggest story in the world, ever.....Sports Direct...Yawn....Mike Ashley is clearly the new Rupert Murdoch of the left.

    I have seen the likes of Panorama "expose" on Sport Direct. Yes it looks like a pretty shitty place to work, but all this how dare they search staff because people have been nicking loads of stuff and that can take x mins which means they fall below minimum wage by 2p, it is pretty thin grul in the grand scheme of things.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @faisalislam: House of Lords vote to amend EU ref to allow 16/17 year olds vote is defeated: CONTENTS: 246 NOT CONTENTS: 263 Government Victory
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Lib Dem gerrymander attempt fails...oh dear
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641

    I see the Guardian are back on the biggest story in the world, ever.....Sports Direct...Yawn....Mike Ashley is clearly the new Rupert Murdoch of the left.

    I have seen the likes of Panorama "expose" on Sport Direct. Yes it looks like a pretty shitty place to work, but all this how dare they search staff because people have been nicking loads of stuff and that can take x mins which means they fall below minimum wage by 2p, it is pretty thin grul in the grand scheme of things.

    They just seem to have no "sole"...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: House of Lords vote to amend EU ref to allow 16/17 year olds vote is defeated: CONTENTS: 246 NOT CONTENTS: 263 Government Victory

    Can we put this nonsense to bed now....The whole 16/17 year old vote thing is worse than AV debate. Political obsessives will bang on and on about the pros and cons of it, when the vast majority of people, including 16/17 year olds, don't give a s##t.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: House of Lords vote to amend EU ref to allow 16/17 year olds vote is defeated: CONTENTS: 246 NOT CONTENTS: 263 Government Victory

    Good. It was always nuts.

    If you want votes at 16, argue for it for all elections.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    I see the Guardian are back on the biggest story in the world, ever.....Sports Direct...Yawn....Mike Ashley is clearly the new Rupert Murdoch of the left.

    I have seen the likes of Panorama "expose" on Sport Direct. Yes it looks like a pretty shitty place to work, but all this how dare they search staff because people have been nicking loads of stuff and that can take x mins which means they fall below minimum wage by 2p, it is pretty thin grul in the grand scheme of things.

    Fat Ash deserves all that is coming to him - nasty operator.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Oh good, an Osborne is crap thread! I don't think he would be a good PM at all. He would be Brown all over again. Hopefully someone like Priti Patel can barge in on the leadership election. She is a bit unsteady at times, but with some decent coaching she could be a really good leader/PM.

    If you need coaching on leadership by middle age you're not PM material.

    Margaret Thatcher needed it, I hardly think she wasn't PM material given that she was our greatest peace time PM.
    Coaching was on presentation and I agree with you that Pritti would benefit from it and ending the robotic repitition of the Govt line to take.
    ...

    Though I maintain that there is no way anyone senisble can support the death penalty
    Should the state never kill in cold blood then? Are there in your view no occasions when people should be be killed by the state?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited 2015 14
    Sandpit said:

    Dair said:

    Scott_P said:

    @BBCDavidMiller: Asked if he will allow full disclosure of Forth Road Bridge documents, as Labour have demanded, @DerekMackayMSP responds: 'Yes I will".

    Scottish Labour in full on lemming mode.

    Their paws are all over the Forth Road Bridge. They know it. They even tried to smear the SNP with an email to Scottish Labour Councillor without even trying to explain why the Scottish Labour Councillor did nothing (perhaps because the email didn't ask for anything to be done, it's just comedy).

    SLAB must know that there will be reams of damaging releases about their cancellation of a new bridge, their opposition to a new bridge and their attempts to block a new bridge in the Minority parliament.

    It's almost as if Scottish Labour played a bluff when it was blindingly obvious to everyone that the bluff would be called.
    If the bridge is still closed as the campaign starts the SNP will own it and then some. Buy Tory seats in Edinburgh.
    Fife rather than Edinburgh surely. It's bloody brilliant in Edinburgh at the moment.

    Especially given that Edinburgh Pentlands was the only location where the Cons got over 20% last time out.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Dair said:

    Dair said:


    No, the point is that a number of DIFFERENT decisions were made.

    The decisions the SNP got to make, they made correctly. The decisions FETA got to make, they made correctly.

    The decisions Labour got to make. They have chosen... poorly.

    Oh I see. The fact that this bridge has suddenly had to be closed because it is in a dangerous state is the result of people making correct decisions. Forgive me, I am not used to the Scottish way of doing things
    While in Scotland, we prefer a thrifty SNP government, who tries to get value out of every penny they spend (hence spending the same on the NHS as 8 years ago with significantly improved outcomes).

    In England the main road into the capital city is still open.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,832

    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: House of Lords vote to amend EU ref to allow 16/17 year olds vote is defeated: CONTENTS: 246 NOT CONTENTS: 263 Government Victory

    Can we put this nonsense to bed now....The whole 16/17 year old vote thing is worse than AV debate. Political obsessives will bang on and on about the pros and cons of it, when the vast majority of people, including 16/17 year olds, don't give a s##t.
    Turn out is around 40% for 18-24 year olds at last GE. So young are not exactly desperate to get their hands on a vote.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    More 2016 polls coming out from Iowa and nationally:
    Monmouth national:

    Trump 41 +13 (new record high for this pollster)
    Cruz 14 +4
    Rubio 10 +4
    Carson 9 -9
    Bush 3 -2
    Kasich 3 +2
    Christie 2 -1
    Huckabee 2 -2
    Paul 2 -2

    http://www.monmouth.edu/assets/0/32212254770/32212254991/32212254992/32212254994/32212254995/30064771087/af4c5edf-9cef-47bb-8440-a702be832156.pdf

    Quinnipiac Iowa :

    Trump 28 +8
    Cruz 27 +17
    Rubio 14 +1
    Carson 10 -18
    Bush 5 0
    Paul 4 -2
    Fiorina 3 -2
    Christie 3 +2
    Kasich 1 -2
    Huckabee 1 -1

    http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/iowa/release-detail?ReleaseID=2309

    Fox Iowa (first in over a year)

    Cruz 28
    Trump 26
    Rubio 13
    Carson 10
    Bush 5
    Paul 5
    Fiorina 2
    Christie 2

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/interactive/2015/12/11/fox-news-poll-cruz-clinton-lead-in-iowa/

    Taking into account the DMR poll on Saturday, it seems clear only Trump and Cruz have any momentum, with Cruz having got the pastor vote in Iowa but Trump getting everyone else's, especially outside of Iowa.

    This looks to be a race between Trump and Cruz, no one else in sight, interesting to note that Trump is absorbing the votes of all the very small candidates while Cruz is relying on the evangelical vote.
    Key thing in the race are what way will the remaining Carson and Rubio votes go, if they go.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Alistair said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dair said:

    Scott_P said:

    @BBCDavidMiller: Asked if he will allow full disclosure of Forth Road Bridge documents, as Labour have demanded, @DerekMackayMSP responds: 'Yes I will".

    Scottish Labour in full on lemming mode.

    Their paws are all over the Forth Road Bridge. They know it. They even tried to smear the SNP with an email to Scottish Labour Councillor without even trying to explain why the Scottish Labour Councillor did nothing (perhaps because the email didn't ask for anything to be done, it's just comedy).

    SLAB must know that there will be reams of damaging releases about their cancellation of a new bridge, their opposition to a new bridge and their attempts to block a new bridge in the Minority parliament.

    It's almost as if Scottish Labour played a bluff when it was blindingly obvious to everyone that the bluff would be called.
    If the bridge is still closed as the campaign starts the SNP will own it and then some. Buy Tory seats in Edinburgh.
    It's bloody brilliant in Edinburgh at the moment.
    .
    Unless you own a shop or a restaurant....

  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806

    perdix said:

    Can't say I'm entirely surprised at OGH siding with Guido's smear of GO. LibDems always favoured dirty tricks.

    Is Guido a LibDem???
    As you know OGH is.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,832
    Speedy said:

    More 2016 polls coming out from Iowa and nationally:
    Monmouth national:

    Trump 41 +13 (new record high for this pollster)
    Cruz 14 +4
    Rubio 10 +4
    Carson 9 -9
    Bush 3 -2
    Kasich 3 +2
    Christie 2 -1
    Huckabee 2 -2
    Paul 2 -2

    http://www.monmouth.edu/assets/0/32212254770/32212254991/32212254992/32212254994/32212254995/30064771087/af4c5edf-9cef-47bb-8440-a702be832156.pdf

    Quinnipiac Iowa :

    Trump 28 +8
    Cruz 27 +17
    Rubio 14 +1
    Carson 10 -18
    Bush 5 0
    Paul 4 -2
    Fiorina 3 -2
    Christie 3 +2
    Kasich 1 -2
    Huckabee 1 -1

    http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/iowa/release-detail?ReleaseID=2309

    Fox Iowa (first in over a year)

    Cruz 28
    Trump 26
    Rubio 13
    Carson 10
    Bush 5
    Paul 5
    Fiorina 2
    Christie 2

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/interactive/2015/12/11/fox-news-poll-cruz-clinton-lead-in-iowa/

    Taking into account the DMR poll on Saturday, it seems clear only Trump and Cruz have any momentum, with Cruz having got the pastor vote in Iowa but Trump getting everyone else's, especially outside of Iowa.

    This looks to be a race between Trump and Cruz, no one else in sight, interesting to note that Trump is absorbing the votes of all the very small candidates while Cruz is relying on the evangelical vote.
    Key thing in the race are what way will the remaining Carson and Rubio votes go, if they go.

    Staggering.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited 2015 14
    Dair said:

    Dair said:


    No, the point is that a number of DIFFERENT decisions were made.

    The decisions the SNP got to make, they made correctly. The decisions FETA got to make, they made correctly.

    The decisions Labour got to make. They have chosen... poorly.

    Oh I see. The fact that this bridge has suddenly had to be closed because it is in a dangerous state is the result of people making correct decisions. Forgive me, I am not used to the Scottish way of doing things
    While in Scotland, we prefer a thrifty SNP government, who tries to get value out of every penny they spend (hence spending the same on the NHS as 8 years ago with significantly improved outcomes).


    This is your excuse?
    How dare you stereotype scots as scrooges? (especially during Christmas)
    And you are an SNPer.

    Someone call the SNP cyberpolice to bully Dair into submission over slandering the glorious people of scotland with racial stereotypes (oh the irony and the sarcasm).
  • CornishBlueCornishBlue Posts: 840
    Common sense defeat of 16/17 year old voters in the House of Peers.

    Was clearly a rouse of the the Remain camp, just like how the SNP wanted that age group allowed to vote because they knew that at that age emotional arguments win over pragmatic ones.

    We will see the Remain campaign increasingly become one of emotional arguments (we must show solidarity with Europeans, peace not war, no to fascists, ...zzzz see page 94).
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641
    edited 2015 14

    Common sense defeat of 16/17 year old voters in the House of Peers.

    Was clearly a rouse of the the Remain camp, just like how the SNP wanted that age group allowed to vote because they knew that at that age emotional arguments win over pragmatic ones.

    We will see the Remain campaign increasingly become one of emotional arguments (we must show solidarity with Europeans, peace not war, no to fascists, ...zzzz see page 94).

    Don't forget the one about all Britons, rich or poor, losing their jobs!
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited 2015 14
    Speedy said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:


    No, the point is that a number of DIFFERENT decisions were made.

    The decisions the SNP got to make, they made correctly. The decisions FETA got to make, they made correctly.

    The decisions Labour got to make. They have chosen... poorly.

    Oh I see. The fact that this bridge has suddenly had to be closed because it is in a dangerous state is the result of people making correct decisions. Forgive me, I am not used to the Scottish way of doing things
    While in Scotland, we prefer a thrifty SNP government, who tries to get value out of every penny they spend (hence spending the same on the NHS as 8 years ago with significantly improved outcomes).


    This is your excuse?
    How dare you stereotype scots as scrooges? (especially during Christmas)
    And you are an SNPer.

    Someone call the SNP cyberpolice to bully Dair into submission over slandering the glorious people of scotland with racial stereotypes (oh the irony and the sarcasm).
    Dair chooses to ignore the fact that overall health outcomes are still far worse in Scotland, than England. Perhaps the SNP should open up the purse and spend a few more pennies?

    'We've saved all this money'. But people are still dropping dead.

    Sounds familiar.

    'We've saved all this money'. But the bridge is falling down.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    YouGov
    Explore our full interactive data table on British prejudice – https://t.co/5uvUta0u4B https://t.co/F0883KKzqJ
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    Common sense defeat of 16/17 year old voters in the House of Peers.

    Was clearly a rouse of the the Remain camp, just like how the SNP wanted that age group allowed to vote because they knew that at that age emotional arguments win over pragmatic ones.

    We will see the Remain campaign increasingly become one of emotional arguments (we must show solidarity with Europeans, peace not war, no to fascists, ...zzzz see page 94).

    I wouldn't be surprised if they resorted to such arguments.You only have to look at how europhiles constantly refer to the EU as Europe to realise they are willing to play dirty.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited 2015 14

    Speedy said:

    More 2016 polls coming out from Iowa and nationally:
    Monmouth national:

    Trump 41 +13 (new record high for this pollster)
    Cruz 14 +4
    Rubio 10 +4
    Carson 9 -9
    Bush 3 -2
    Kasich 3 +2
    Christie 2 -1
    Huckabee 2 -2
    Paul 2 -2

    http://www.monmouth.edu/assets/0/32212254770/32212254991/32212254992/32212254994/32212254995/30064771087/af4c5edf-9cef-47bb-8440-a702be832156.pdf

    Quinnipiac Iowa :

    Trump 28 +8
    Cruz 27 +17
    Rubio 14 +1
    Carson 10 -18
    Bush 5 0
    Paul 4 -2
    Fiorina 3 -2
    Christie 3 +2
    Kasich 1 -2
    Huckabee 1 -1

    http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/iowa/release-detail?ReleaseID=2309

    Fox Iowa (first in over a year)

    Cruz 28
    Trump 26
    Rubio 13
    Carson 10
    Bush 5
    Paul 5
    Fiorina 2
    Christie 2

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/interactive/2015/12/11/fox-news-poll-cruz-clinton-lead-in-iowa/

    Taking into account the DMR poll on Saturday, it seems clear only Trump and Cruz have any momentum, with Cruz having got the pastor vote in Iowa but Trump getting everyone else's, especially outside of Iowa.

    This looks to be a race between Trump and Cruz, no one else in sight, interesting to note that Trump is absorbing the votes of all the very small candidates while Cruz is relying on the evangelical vote.
    Key thing in the race are what way will the remaining Carson and Rubio votes go, if they go.

    Staggering.
    Most staggering are the favourability ratings, Trump is the most favourable GOP candidate among republicans, at 61% a 9 point jump from October, all this gangbanging by other republicans and the media on Trump has made him more popular.
    Also that Trump's support is above 40% with all the conservative and moderate variants, while Cruz draws almost exclusively from very conservatives, which explains why Cruz has such an appeal in Iowa but little support outside the great plains at the moment.

    If I made a guess i'll say that the map of the primaries is looking more like the Romney vs Santorum one from 2012.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Matt Singh
    YouGov/ITV/Cardiff Uni (Wales #EUref):

    REMAIN 40 (-2)
    LEAVE 42 (+4)

    30th Nov-4th Dec
    N=1,005
    Writeup @roger_scully https://t.co/Ym3MHeOIcu
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,832
    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    More 2016 polls coming out from Iowa and nationally:
    Monmouth national:

    Trump 41 +13 (new record high for this pollster)
    Cruz 14 +4
    Rubio 10 +4
    Carson 9 -9
    Bush 3 -2
    Kasich 3 +2
    Christie 2 -1
    Huckabee 2 -2
    Paul 2 -2

    http://www.monmouth.edu/assets/0/32212254770/32212254991/32212254992/32212254994/32212254995/30064771087/af4c5edf-9cef-47bb-8440-a702be832156.pdf

    Quinnipiac Iowa :

    Trump 28 +8
    Cruz 27 +17
    Rubio 14 +1
    Carson 10 -18
    Bush 5 0
    Paul 4 -2
    Fiorina 3 -2
    Christie 3 +2
    Kasich 1 -2
    Huckabee 1 -1

    http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/iowa/release-detail?ReleaseID=2309

    Fox Iowa (first in over a year)

    Cruz 28
    Trump 26
    Rubio 13
    Carson 10
    Bush 5
    Paul 5
    Fiorina 2
    Christie 2

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/interactive/2015/12/11/fox-news-poll-cruz-clinton-lead-in-iowa/

    Taking into account the DMR poll on Saturday, it seems clear only Trump and Cruz have any momentum, with Cruz having got the pastor vote in Iowa but Trump getting everyone else's, especially outside of Iowa.

    This looks to be a race between Trump and Cruz, no one else in sight, interesting to note that Trump is absorbing the votes of all the very small candidates while Cruz is relying on the evangelical vote.
    Key thing in the race are what way will the remaining Carson and Rubio votes go, if they go.

    Staggering.
    Most staggering are the favourability ratings, Trump is the most favourable GOP candidate among republicans, at 61% a 9 point jump from October, all this gangbanging by other republicans and the media on Trump has made him more popular.
    Also that Trump's support is above 40% with all the conservative and moderate variants, while Cruz draws almost exclusively from very conservatives, which explains why Cruz has such an appeal in Iowa but little support outside the great plains at the moment.

    If I made a guess i'll say that the map of the primaries is looking more like the Romney vs Santorum one from 2012.
    New Hampshire will be interesting as I believe independents can also vote in primary.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641
    edited 2015 14

    Matt Singh
    YouGov/ITV/Cardiff Uni (Wales #EUref):

    REMAIN 40 (-2)
    LEAVE 42 (+4)

    30th Nov-4th Dec
    N=1,005
    Writeup @roger_scully https://t.co/Ym3MHeOIcu

    Broken, sleazy REMAIN on the slide?
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    The Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR) prides itself on being "independent". Yet all is not quite as it seems:

    Guido: As far as I can see it doesn’t say anywhere in the report that the IPPR is funded by Europe.

    Marley Morris: Yes, that’s correct, we’re not.

    Guido: So you’re not funded by Europe?

    Marley: Correct, we don’t receive any funding from Europe. Some people say we do, but we don’t.

    Guido: But on your website it says you received between £60,001 and £80,000 from the European Commission during 2014.

    Marley: Uhhh… Uhh… Oh yes… Uhh I think there was another project funded by… uhh… Europe that someone was… uhh… working on.
    http://order-order.com/2015/12/14/more-eu-sockpuppetry-from-ippr/
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,832

    Matt Singh
    YouGov/ITV/Cardiff Uni (Wales #EUref):

    REMAIN 40 (-2)
    LEAVE 42 (+4)

    30th Nov-4th Dec
    N=1,005
    Writeup @roger_scully https://t.co/Ym3MHeOIcu

    Yet another reason why the vote wont be held in 2016.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    MP_SE said:

    The Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR) prides itself on being "independent". Yet all is not quite as it seems:


    Guido: As far as I can see it doesn’t say anywhere in the report that the IPPR is funded by Europe.

    Marley Morris: Yes, that’s correct, we’re not.

    Guido: So you’re not funded by Europe?

    Marley: Correct, we don’t receive any funding from Europe. Some people say we do, but we don’t.

    Guido: But on your website it says you received between £60,001 and £80,000 from the European Commission during 2014.

    Marley: Uhhh… Uhh… Oh yes… Uhh I think there was another project funded by… uhh… Europe that someone was… uhh… working on.
    http://order-order.com/2015/12/14/more-eu-sockpuppetry-from-ippr/

    Little Englander, xenophobia, racist, threat to security yabba yabba yabba

  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    Matt Singh
    YouGov/ITV/Cardiff Uni (Wales #EUref):

    REMAIN 40 (-2)
    LEAVE 42 (+4)

    30th Nov-4th Dec
    N=1,005
    Writeup @roger_scully https://t.co/Ym3MHeOIcu

    YES YES YES.

    Brexit is inevitable.
  • Hertsmere_PubgoerHertsmere_Pubgoer Posts: 3,476

    I see the Guardian are back on the biggest story in the world, ever.....Sports Direct...Yawn....Mike Ashley is clearly the new Rupert Murdoch of the left.

    I have seen the likes of Panorama "expose" on Sport Direct. Yes it looks like a pretty shitty place to work, but all this how dare they search staff because people have been nicking loads of stuff and that can take x mins which means they fall below minimum wage by 2p, it is pretty thin grul in the grand scheme of things.

    I'm currently working at a warehouse that distributes phone and computer accessories.
    You get searched everytime you exit the warehouse.
    It's a fact of life for anyone that works somewhere with lots of small, easy to steal and easy to sell things.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641
    MP_SE said:

    The Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR) prides itself on being "independent". Yet all is not quite as it seems:


    Guido: As far as I can see it doesn’t say anywhere in the report that the IPPR is funded by Europe.

    Marley Morris: Yes, that’s correct, we’re not.

    Guido: So you’re not funded by Europe?

    Marley: Correct, we don’t receive any funding from Europe. Some people say we do, but we don’t.

    Guido: But on your website it says you received between £60,001 and £80,000 from the European Commission during 2014.

    Marley: Uhhh… Uhh… Oh yes… Uhh I think there was another project funded by… uhh… Europe that someone was… uhh… working on.
    http://order-order.com/2015/12/14/more-eu-sockpuppetry-from-ippr/

    Not "independent" - merely "progressive"...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_for_Public_Policy_Research
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,693
    MP_SE said:

    The Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR) prides itself on being "independent". Yet all is not quite as it seems:


    Guido: As far as I can see it doesn’t say anywhere in the report that the IPPR is funded by Europe.

    Marley Morris: Yes, that’s correct, we’re not.

    Guido: So you’re not funded by Europe?

    Marley: Correct, we don’t receive any funding from Europe. Some people say we do, but we don’t.

    Guido: But on your website it says you received between £60,001 and £80,000 from the European Commission during 2014.

    Marley: Uhhh… Uhh… Oh yes… Uhh I think there was another project funded by… uhh… Europe that someone was… uhh… working on.
    http://order-order.com/2015/12/14/more-eu-sockpuppetry-from-ippr/

    There's a difference between accepting money for a project, and accepting money to fund day-to-day operations on an ongoing basis.

    If there weren't, then polling organisations would not be "independent" of political parties.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    So I've been offline ... have Dair and the others who last night were confidently claiming that Cameron would back down over allowing children to vote on the referendum conceded how wrong they were? Or have we discovered a squirrel to look at?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited 2015 14
    20yrs ago - we used to provide packers and assembly staff for Ann Summers - everyone was searched as thieving was predictably pretty rife.

    I really can't outraged about this - pilfering from warehouses and shops by staff can cost a fortune

    I see the Guardian are back on the biggest story in the world, ever.....Sports Direct...Yawn....Mike Ashley is clearly the new Rupert Murdoch of the left.

    I have seen the likes of Panorama "expose" on Sport Direct. Yes it looks like a pretty shitty place to work, but all this how dare they search staff because people have been nicking loads of stuff and that can take x mins which means they fall below minimum wage by 2p, it is pretty thin grul in the grand scheme of things.

    I'm currently working at a warehouse that distributes phone and computer accessories.
    You get searched everytime you exit the warehouse.
    It's a fact of life for anyone that works somewhere with lots of small, easy to steal and easy to sell things.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,161
    MP_SE said:

    The Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR) prides itself on being "independent". Yet all is not quite as it seems:


    Guido: As far as I can see it doesn’t say anywhere in the report that the IPPR is funded by Europe.

    Marley Morris: Yes, that’s correct, we’re not.

    Guido: So you’re not funded by Europe?

    Marley: Correct, we don’t receive any funding from Europe. Some people say we do, but we don’t.

    Guido: But on your website it says you received between £60,001 and £80,000 from the European Commission during 2014.

    Marley: Uhhh… Uhh… Oh yes… Uhh I think there was another project funded by… uhh… Europe that someone was… uhh… working on.
    http://order-order.com/2015/12/14/more-eu-sockpuppetry-from-ippr/

    How big is their total funding? If it's £1m, that's a very significant proportion. If it's £10m, then it's well under 1%.
  • CornishBlueCornishBlue Posts: 840
    edited 2015 14

    Matt Singh
    YouGov/ITV/Cardiff Uni (Wales #EUref):

    REMAIN 40 (-2)
    LEAVE 42 (+4)

    30th Nov-4th Dec
    N=1,005
    Writeup @roger_scully https://t.co/Ym3MHeOIcu

    Yet another reason why the vote wont be held in 2016.
    That's alright. For every year that passes, the continent goes further down the drain.

    Can you imagine what Germany will be like come 2017? Or Greece? Or (sadly) France?

    Come an Autumn 2017 referendum and Leave should be comfortably ahead.

    Brexit ahoy.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited 2015 14

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    More 2016 polls coming out from Iowa and nationally:


    Taking into account the DMR poll on Saturday, it seems clear only Trump and Cruz have any momentum, with Cruz having got the pastor vote in Iowa but Trump getting everyone else's, especially outside of Iowa.

    This looks to be a race between Trump and Cruz, no one else in sight, interesting to note that Trump is absorbing the votes of all the very small candidates while Cruz is relying on the evangelical vote.
    Key thing in the race are what way will the remaining Carson and Rubio votes go, if they go.

    Staggering.
    Most staggering are the favourability ratings, Trump is the most favourable GOP candidate among republicans, at 61% a 9 point jump from October, all this gangbanging by other republicans and the media on Trump has made him more popular.
    Also that Trump's support is above 40% with all the conservative and moderate variants, while Cruz draws almost exclusively from very conservatives, which explains why Cruz has such an appeal in Iowa but little support outside the great plains at the moment.

    If I made a guess i'll say that the map of the primaries is looking more like the Romney vs Santorum one from 2012.
    New Hampshire will be interesting as I believe independents can also vote in primary.
    Reasonably Cruz wins Iowa, Trump wins N.Hampshire (as evangelicals have little support in N.H as Santorum can testify), S. Carolina will probably go Trump depending on the drop outs and the endorsements by the drop outs, then Nevada which will go for Trump (he's a casino magnate too), and then it's off to Super Tuesday which are mostly southern states (including Texas).

    If Cruz doesn't do well on Super Tuesday (March 1st) then he will probably drop out and endorse Trump, and that will be the end of it. If not then the next date is March 15th to find who the nominee is.

    Or if not even then, it will probably go to the convention and since Cruz and Carson have pledged support to whoever wins the most states and leads on delegates then it will be whoever leads on convention day no matter what the GOP says.
  • CornishBlueCornishBlue Posts: 840
    edited 2015 14

    Common sense defeat of 16/17 year old voters in the House of Peers.

    Was clearly a rouse of the the Remain camp, just like how the SNP wanted that age group allowed to vote because they knew that at that age emotional arguments win over pragmatic ones.

    We will see the Remain campaign increasingly become one of emotional arguments (we must show solidarity with Europeans, peace not war, no to fascists, ...zzzz see page 94).

    Don't forget the one about all Britons, rich or poor, losing their jobs!
    3 million jobs!

    Always 3 million...
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    EPG said:

    MP_SE said:

    The Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR) prides itself on being "independent". Yet all is not quite as it seems:


    Guido: As far as I can see it doesn’t say anywhere in the report that the IPPR is funded by Europe.

    Marley Morris: Yes, that’s correct, we’re not.

    Guido: So you’re not funded by Europe?

    Marley: Correct, we don’t receive any funding from Europe. Some people say we do, but we don’t.

    Guido: But on your website it says you received between £60,001 and £80,000 from the European Commission during 2014.

    Marley: Uhhh… Uhh… Oh yes… Uhh I think there was another project funded by… uhh… Europe that someone was… uhh… working on.
    http://order-order.com/2015/12/14/more-eu-sockpuppetry-from-ippr/
    There's a difference between accepting money for a project, and accepting money to fund day-to-day operations on an ongoing basis.

    If there weren't, then polling organisations would not be "independent" of political parties.

    Errr .... As noted earlier the integrity of polling companies must surely be in doubt. To put it bluntly they are either bent or incompetent.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Lol
    McDonnell worried about Last of the Summer Wine comparisons during Corbyn's campaign
    https://t.co/FE7nz0JSgJ https://t.co/zY0Zi4XFle
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,233
    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: House of Lords vote to amend EU ref to allow 16/17 year olds vote is defeated: CONTENTS: 246 NOT CONTENTS: 263 Government Victory

    Excellent.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited 2015 14
    rcs1000 said:

    MP_SE said:

    The Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR) prides itself on being "independent". Yet all is not quite as it seems:


    Guido: As far as I can see it doesn’t say anywhere in the report that the IPPR is funded by Europe.

    Marley Morris: Yes, that’s correct, we’re not.

    Guido: So you’re not funded by Europe?

    Marley: Correct, we don’t receive any funding from Europe. Some people say we do, but we don’t.

    Guido: But on your website it says you received between £60,001 and £80,000 from the European Commission during 2014.

    Marley: Uhhh… Uhh… Oh yes… Uhh I think there was another project funded by… uhh… Europe that someone was… uhh… working on.
    http://order-order.com/2015/12/14/more-eu-sockpuppetry-from-ippr/
    How big is their total funding? If it's £1m, that's a very significant proportion. If it's £10m, then it's well under 1%.

    "Are you funded by the EU?'
    "No"
    "But your website says you took money from the EU"
    "Oh, yes"

    Simplistic maybe, but accurate.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Matt Singh
    YouGov/ITV/Cardiff Uni (Wales #EUref):

    REMAIN 40 (-2)
    LEAVE 42 (+4)

    30th Nov-4th Dec
    N=1,005
    Writeup @roger_scully https://t.co/Ym3MHeOIcu

    Yet another reason why the vote wont be held in 2016.
    That's alright. For every year that passes, the continent goes further down the drain.

    Can you imagine what Germany will be like come 2017? Or Greece? Or (sadly) France?

    Come an Autumn 2017 referendum and Leave should be comfortably ahead.

    Brexit ahoy.
    Just a thought, albeit one that might be far fetched; the direction of travel is clearly with OUT, I see no reason why that shouldn't continue. Rather than face the ignominy of campaigning to remain, is the PM considering recommending OUT?

    What was unthinkable a while back may become reality.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    Brexit is far from certain. I maintain Remain is likely to win, and win comfortably.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    So I've been offline ... have Dair and the others who last night were confidently claiming that Cameron would back down over allowing children to vote on the referendum conceded how wrong they were? Or have we discovered a squirrel to look at?

    To be fair, I don't think many people foresaw a Government win in the Lords at this stage.

    Perhaps Cameron is quite good at politics.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,246

    Matt Singh
    YouGov/ITV/Cardiff Uni (Wales #EUref):

    REMAIN 40 (-2)
    LEAVE 42 (+4)

    30th Nov-4th Dec
    N=1,005
    Writeup @roger_scully https://t.co/Ym3MHeOIcu

    Yet another reason why the vote wont be held in 2016.
    That's alright. For every year that passes, the continent goes further down the drain.

    Can you imagine what Germany will be like come 2017? Or Greece? Or (sadly) France?

    Come an Autumn 2017 referendum and Leave should be comfortably ahead.

    Brexit ahoy.
    Just a thought, albeit one that might be far fetched; the direction of travel is clearly with OUT, I see no reason why that shouldn't continue. Rather than face the ignominy of campaigning to remain, is the PM considering recommending OUT?

    What was unthinkable a while back may become reality.
    It certainly was thinkable a while back, as I've been saying he might support exit. Whilst I think it's unlikely, it's becoming more of a possibility (although that possibility might still be unlikely).
  • Hertsmere_PubgoerHertsmere_Pubgoer Posts: 3,476

    20yrs ago - we used to provide packers and assembly staff for Ann Summers - everyone was searched as thieving was predictably pretty rife.

    I really can't outraged about this - pilfering from warehouses and shops by staff can cost a fortune

    I see the Guardian are back on the biggest story in the world, ever.....Sports Direct...Yawn....Mike Ashley is clearly the new Rupert Murdoch of the left.

    I have seen the likes of Panorama "expose" on Sport Direct. Yes it looks like a pretty shitty place to work, but all this how dare they search staff because people have been nicking loads of stuff and that can take x mins which means they fall below minimum wage by 2p, it is pretty thin grul in the grand scheme of things.

    I'm currently working at a warehouse that distributes phone and computer accessories.
    You get searched everytime you exit the warehouse.
    It's a fact of life for anyone that works somewhere with lots of small, easy to steal and easy to sell things.
    I haven't followed the Sports Direct story.
    One thing that did used to irk me when I used to work for Tesco was that they were quick enough to give you a bollocking if you were one minute late on shift.
    But keeping you behind for 10-15 minutes after the shift to queue up to get searched was regarded as ok by them.
    I was happy to be searched 10 times a day, but do it on the company clock, not mine.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Chaunchey Glass
    The @IpsosMORI #Almanac is an interesting public opinion year-in-review | https://t.co/skJvPBVIOK https://t.co/dEvixY6lem
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Brexit is far from certain. I maintain Remain is likely to win, and win comfortably.

    You keep saying that, Mr. D, but I will not be convinced until Roger, __ of this parish, says that "Out" will definitely win.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited 2015 14
    I forgot to mention that the Monmouth poll is the first national poll that was done exclusively AFTER Trump's policy on muslim immigration.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Oh good, an Osborne is crap thread! I don't think he would be a good PM at all. He would be Brown all over again. Hopefully someone like Priti Patel can barge in on the leadership election. She is a bit unsteady at times, but with some decent coaching she could be a really good leader/PM.

    If you need coaching on leadership by middle age you're not PM material.

    Margaret Thatcher needed it, I hardly think she wasn't PM material given that she was our greatest peace time PM.
    Coaching was on presentation and I agree with you that Pritti would benefit from it and ending the robotic repitition of the Govt line to take.
    ...

    Though I maintain that there is no way anyone senisble can support the death penalty
    Should the state never kill in cold blood then? Are there in your view no occasions when people should be be killed by the state?
    Only if there is no alternative.

    The police at home or military abroad can and should be able to kill if the alternative to doing so is perceived to be a risk to life. If someone is incarcerated then that is an alternative to killing.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    If you haven't seen it yet - Jess Phillips "I'd knife Jeremy Corbyn in the front, not the back"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TcLhDTUxVs
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Oh good, an Osborne is crap thread! I don't think he would be a good PM at all. He would be Brown all over again. Hopefully someone like Priti Patel can barge in on the leadership election. She is a bit unsteady at times, but with some decent coaching she could be a really good leader/PM.

    If you need coaching on leadership by middle age you're not PM material.

    Margaret Thatcher needed it, I hardly think she wasn't PM material given that she was our greatest peace time PM.
    Coaching was on presentation and I agree with you that Pritti would benefit from it and ending the robotic repitition of the Govt line to take.
    ...

    Though I maintain that there is no way anyone senisble can support the death penalty
    Should the state never kill in cold blood then? Are there in your view no occasions when people should be be killed by the state?
    Only if there is no alternative.

    The police at home or military abroad can and should be able to kill if the alternative to doing so is perceived to be a risk to life. If someone is incarcerated then that is an alternative to killing.
    What if they kill while incarcerated?
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    I have a slight suspicion that Trump may have peaked, and here's why.

    Trump's MO is to make some kind of bombastic claim, and the media will say yes he's exaggerated, some of them may be demonstrably untrue, but he's just being Donald. So the media hyperventilates for a day or so, Trump calls in to all the news stations and (typically) appears live on Fox News 2 or 3 times (it has more viewers than the other news networks combined several times over) and walks it back a little. After 24 hours or so the universe continues to unfold as it should, the dogs bark and the parade moves on.

    Trump's happy - he has all the free media he can use: the networks are happy - Trump means boffo ratings all round.

    But not this time. The muslim comment has outraged everyone, and the media coverage ha turned noticeably negative, with even those who claim to be journalists rather than commentators opining on how bad and unacceptable this was. It went on for a week, relentlessly negative.

    There's a Des Moines Register poll - and they have a good reputation for accuracy on this - putting Cruz 10 points up on muslim man.

    There is also out today a Monmouth University poll, 385 GOP registered voters, polling done 12/10 - 12/13, moe 5%

    Trump 41
    Cruz 14
    Rubio 10
    Carson 9
    the rest =< 3

    so maybe he hasn't peaked.

    We live in interesting times - though probably not as interesting as doing packing and assembly for Ann Summers :)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2015 14

    20yrs ago - we used to provide packers and assembly staff for Ann Summers - everyone was searched as thieving was predictably pretty rife.

    I really can't outraged about this - pilfering from warehouses and shops by staff can cost a fortune

    I see the Guardian are back on the biggest story in the world, ever.....Sports Direct...Yawn....Mike Ashley is clearly the new Rupert Murdoch of the left.

    I have seen the likes of Panorama "expose" on Sport Direct. Yes it looks like a pretty shitty place to work, but all this how dare they search staff because people have been nicking loads of stuff and that can take x mins which means they fall below minimum wage by 2p, it is pretty thin grul in the grand scheme of things.

    I'm currently working at a warehouse that distributes phone and computer accessories.
    You get searched everytime you exit the warehouse.
    It's a fact of life for anyone that works somewhere with lots of small, easy to steal and easy to sell things.
    In the not too distant past I have worked in warehousing, and all the stuff thrown at Ashley's operation was absolutely standard. And the company whose warehouse I worked for was shall we say much posher than Sports Direct, the sort of place your Guardianista loves to shop because of their perceived ethical standards.

    What annoys me is the singling out of Ashley as if he is some how different. Stuff searching employees, wide use of agency staff, having performance targets, and rules which allows employers to discipline employees for pissing about in the toilets or being late or not wearing appropriate clothing (the biggest abuse where I worked, people buggering off to the toilet every hour or two for a 15-20 mins, how many s##ts can one person have in 8hrs)...all this is totally standard in distribution.

    I think there are issues across the distribution industry, lets have that conversation, rather than making out Mike Ashley as the devil.

    It is like phone hacking, Murdoch the devil, Guardian only interested in NI phone hacking, except Operation Motorman found that every newspaper were involved in this stuff and NOTW weren't even the biggest offenders.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    More 2016 polls coming out from Iowa and nationally:


    Taking into account the DMR poll on Saturday, it seems clear only Trump and Cruz have any momentum, with Cruz having got the pastor vote in Iowa but Trump getting everyone else's, especially outside of Iowa.

    This looks to be a race between Trump and Cruz, no one else in sight, interesting to note that Trump is absorbing the votes of all the very small candidates while Cruz is relying on the evangelical vote.
    Key thing in the race are what way will the remaining Carson and Rubio votes go, if they go.

    Staggering.
    Most staggering are the favourability ratings, Trump is the most favourable GOP candidate among republicans, at 61% a 9 point jump from October, all this gangbanging by other republicans and the media on Trump has made him more popular.
    Also that Trump's support is above 40% with all the conservative and moderate variants, while Cruz draws almost exclusively from very conservatives, which explains why Cruz has such an appeal in Iowa but little support outside the great plains at the moment.

    If I made a guess i'll say that the map of the primaries is looking more like the Romney vs Santorum one from 2012.
    New Hampshire will be interesting as I believe independents can also vote in primary.
    Reasonably Cruz wins Iowa, Trump wins N.Hampshire (as evangelicals have little support in N.H as Santorum can testify), S. Carolina will probably go Trump depending on the drop outs and the endorsements by the drop outs, then Nevada which will go for Trump (he's a casino magnate too), and then it's off to Super Tuesday which are mostly southern states (including Texas).

    If Cruz doesn't do well on Super Tuesday (March 1st) then he will probably drop out and endorse Trump, and that will be the end of it. If not then the next date is March 15th to find who the nominee is.

    Or if not even then, it will probably go to the convention and since Cruz and Carson have pledged support to whoever wins the most states and leads on delegates then it will be whoever leads on convention day no matter what the GOP says.
    Thanks for the update, Speedy.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited 2015 14

    Brexit is far from certain. I maintain Remain is likely to win, and win comfortably.

    The United Kingdom of Great Britain And Northern Ireland Will Never Leave The European Union Whilst David Cameron Is Prime Minister.

    TUKOGBANIWNLTEUWDCIPM

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,548
    Apropos nothing at all (but tangentially relevant to earlier threads), I have been rooting around old emails and found this quote:-

    "Liberty does not consist in making others do what you think right. The difference between a free Government and a Government which is not free is principally this: that a Government which is not free interferes with everything it can, and a free Government interferes with nothing except what it must.
    Sir William Vernon Harcourt, Solicitor General, 1873"

    and this comment from me (elsewhere) on Labour in June 2009 (in relation to their ID cards proposal):-

    "The issue is Labour and its appalling policies - the full ghastly list of their disasters is too numerous to mention but high amongst the list of shameful acts is its assault on our civil liberties, our freedoms and our privacy. None of the other candidates for leader have ever shown any spine on any of these or any of the other issues . Time for them all to go. Time for us to have our say. Let them grieve over the destruction of what used to be an honourable political party; let them try and rebuild it in private, if they can, and not bother us again until they have shown us that they are fit to be let out in polite society once again."

    Plus ca change, eh...........
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,233
    JackW said:

    Brexit is far from certain. I maintain Remain is likely to win, and win comfortably.

    The United Kingdom of Great Britain And Northern Ireland Will Never Leave The European Union Whilst David Cameron Is Prime Minister.

    TUKOGBANIWNLTEUWDCISPM

    You've got an extra S in there ;)
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited 2015 14
    Golly
    Pictures today emerged of a parish council chairman's secret room where he hid the 'biggest stash' of illegal weapons ever found in the UK. Police discovered more than 400 firearms, including assault rifles and machine guns, in the home of James Arnold, 49, in the village of Wyverstone, Suffolk.

    Arnold, who was the chairman of Wyverstone Parish Council, was due to face a number of firearms charges, but he died of cancer in July 2014. Firearms dealer Anthony Buckland, 65, from Stoke Holy Cross, in Norfolk, is standing trial at Norwich Crown Court after pleading not guilty to selling prohibited weapons and fraud by false representation.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3359589/Pictured-Parish-council-chairman-s-secret-room-containing-400-guns.html#ixzz3uJzEs0UU
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Cyclefree said:

    Apropos nothing at all (but tangentially relevant to earlier threads), I have been rooting around old emails and found this quote:-

    "Liberty does not consist in making others do what you think right. The difference between a free Government and a Government which is not free is principally this: that a Government which is not free interferes with everything it can, and a free Government interferes with nothing except what it must.
    Sir William Vernon Harcourt, Solicitor General, 1873"

    and this comment from me (elsewhere) on Labour in June 2009 (in relation to their ID cards proposal):-

    "The issue is Labour and its appalling policies - the full ghastly list of their disasters is too numerous to mention but high amongst the list of shameful acts is its assault on our civil liberties, our freedoms and our privacy. None of the other candidates for leader have ever shown any spine on any of these or any of the other issues . Time for them all to go. Time for us to have our say. Let them grieve over the destruction of what used to be an honourable political party; let them try and rebuild it in private, if they can, and not bother us again until they have shown us that they are fit to be let out in polite society once again."

    Plus ca change, eh...........

    Love that quote from 1873, sums up perfectly why we must leave the EU.

  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Don't forget the GOP debates in Vegas tomorrow. Christie and Paul are on the main stage.

    This is another CNN debate. Wolf Blitzer was asked how the presenters prepare their questions. His response - honest - was that they have a cone of silence. He means a private meeting room, but the cone of silence is from Get Smart!

    How to view, and times -

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2015/12/14/what-time-is-the-republican-debate/77279302/

    Oh, now Cruz is 10 points clear in Iowa, Trump called him 'a bit of a maniac' on Fox yesterday.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Oh good, an Osborne is crap thread! I don't think he would be a good PM at all. He would be Brown all over again. Hopefully someone like Priti Patel can barge in on the leadership election. She is a bit unsteady at times, but with some decent coaching she could be a really good leader/PM.

    If you need coaching on leadership by middle age you're not PM material.

    Margaret Thatcher needed it, I hardly think she wasn't PM material given that she was our greatest peace time PM.
    Coaching was on presentation and I agree with you that Pritti would benefit from it and ending the robotic repitition of the Govt line to take.
    ...

    Though I maintain that there is no way anyone senisble can support the death penalty
    Should the state never kill in cold blood then? Are there in your view no occasions when people should be be killed by the state?
    Only if there is no alternative.

    The police at home or military abroad can and should be able to kill if the alternative to doing so is perceived to be a risk to life. If someone is incarcerated then that is an alternative to killing.
    Thank you, Mr. Thompson, I was rather hoping to hear Mr. Eagles views.

    However, since you have brought up the subject how immediate do you think that risk to life should be? You probably noticed in my original question I used the term "cold blood" b that I meant that imminent risk to life/combat was not the situation.

    A few weeks ago agents of the British state deliberately killed a UK citizen who at the time of his death posed no danger to anyone. To be sure he was a very bad man and was probably guilty of several killings that would have been counted as murder had they been committed in the UK. Was that killing acceptable?
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Cyclefree said:

    Apropos nothing at all (but tangentially relevant to earlier threads), I have been rooting around old emails and found this quote:-

    "Liberty does not consist in making others do what you think right. The difference between a free Government and a Government which is not free is principally this: that a Government which is not free interferes with everything it can, and a free Government interferes with nothing except what it must.
    Sir William Vernon Harcourt, Solicitor General, 1873"

    and this comment from me (elsewhere) on Labour in June 2009 (in relation to their ID cards proposal):-

    "The issue is Labour and its appalling policies - the full ghastly list of their disasters is too numerous to mention but high amongst the list of shameful acts is its assault on our civil liberties, our freedoms and our privacy. None of the other candidates for leader have ever shown any spine on any of these or any of the other issues . Time for them all to go. Time for us to have our say. Let them grieve over the destruction of what used to be an honourable political party; let them try and rebuild it in private, if they can, and not bother us again until they have shown us that they are fit to be let out in polite society once again."

    Plus ca change, eh...........

    You have emails from 1873? I'm impressed! The quote sums it up perfectly.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,108
    Cyclefree said:

    Apropos nothing at all (but tangentially relevant to earlier threads), I have been rooting around old emails and found this quote:-

    "Liberty does not consist in making others do what you think right. The difference between a free Government and a Government which is not free is principally this: that a Government which is not free interferes with everything it can, and a free Government interferes with nothing except what it must.
    Sir William Vernon Harcourt, Solicitor General, 1873"


    Plus ca change, eh...........

    Apart from the anti-Labour rant, this could equally apply to most Governments (including the current one) since 1945.

    The current Government (for all its Conservative title) is incredibly interventionist and activist. There is no area of life or public policy into which this Government cannot shoehorn some pointless piece of legislation or diktat.

    To assume Labour is somehow "worse" is to miss the point - the only difference is the Conservatives are slightly more subtle.

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