Sky News Newsdesk @SkyNewsBreak 5m5 minutes ago Update - The FBI says it is officially investigating the #California mass shooting as an act of #terrorism
Obama is tostada
It does not look like an ISIS planned attack, just two disgruntled former employees who happened to be Muslim and decided to link a grudge attack to support for ISIS, nonetheless does show US not immune to homegrown terrorism either
I don't think this is true. It certainly looks like they targeted this work place over a grudge and probably wasn't the target they were planning. Nobody has a bomb making factory in their garage over a workplace grudge. They might not have been directed by ISIS and self started instead, but this isn't just two disgruntled employees go loco.
Inspiration is not the same as co-ordination
Never said anything about coordination. What I was saying is clear, having a pipe bomb making factory in their garage wasn't about a bust up over somebody nicking the last cup at the water cooler.
Sky News Newsdesk @SkyNewsBreak 5m5 minutes ago Update - The FBI says it is officially investigating the #California mass shooting as an act of #terrorism
Obama is tostada
It does not look like an ISIS planned attack, just two disgruntled former employees who happened to be Muslim and decided to link a grudge attack to support for ISIS, nonetheless does show US not immune to homegrown terrorism either
I don't think this is true. It certainly looks like they targeted this work place over a grudge and probably wasn't the target they were planning. Nobody has a bomb making factory in their garage over a workplace grudge. They might not have been directed by ISIS and self started instead, but this isn't just two disgruntled employees go loco.
Inspiration is not the same as co-ordination
If anything, it's more worrying. Much much harder to track and prevent.
Just a note: IS claims the San Bernadino shootings as its own in the last hour.
The US authorities were expecting something. I mentioned just around a week ago that there were strong rumours of something going to occur in the US.
If that is true then why did Obama make these remarks about America being safe from ISIS, and an ISIS attack is unlikely, and "we have no specific warnings".
These are disastrous headlines for Obama, in retrospect
Did the FBI not tell the prez they WERE expecting something? Doubt it. So your story is untrue.
Obama is in deep shit.
What Obama was doing talking about gun control as a primary concern when that kind of info was in circulation, the cops had found explosives and Homeland Security as an overall agency was taking a keen interest beats me, but he did.
Obama was going on about gun control because that's his default mode. A more serious terrorist attack on the US is going to make him look like a rabbit caught in the headlights - and if we can see that, the terrorists can see it too.
Well terrorists can buy weapons in America since there is little control on who buys guns and ammunition.
If only Mr Brind did not carry so much resentment and baggage from his view of history. I agree with Mr Brind that Cameron made a partisan remark. It was wrong and diminished Cameron.
But we also have from Mr Brind a set of attacks on Thatcher for winning an election on the back of her decision and hers alone, to win back the Falklands. That was a courageous decision in the face of some around her that wanted to back off and talk to the invaders.
If we ever need to wonder why Kinnock never became PM "Mr Neil Kinnock re-opened the row over the Falklands war last night when he told a Television South audience that it was a pity soldiers had to die to prove that Mrs Thatcher had guts."
Is it not also prescient that Mr. Brind completely ignore Ed Miliband's shenanigans barely 2 years ago - maybe he just spent too long working for al -Beeb.
Ed Miliband interviewed on C4 news just now hailing the increase in Labour's membership while attending the Paris climate talks
What the f##k is Ed doing at those talks? The last thing we need is that numpty involved.
Expect Ms Clinton to distance herself very hastily from a tainted incumbent, or she will suffer collateral.
As Obama isn't standing again, it isn't going to really affect him. It isn't like he has much of a legacy to trash anyway. First black president and....dsyfunctional ObamaCare..and...golfed more than Bush?
He has been a singular disappointment. His greatest achievement was winning, after that it's been downhill.
And he's now in danger of his epitaph being The Rise of ISIS and Total Mayhem in the MidEast - i.e. the Worst Foreign Policy president in a century, with the possible exception of Dubya Bush.
George W Bush was too trigger happy and agressive,, invading countries without thinking how they would be rebuilt and what would fill the vacuum, Obama is too pacifist, reluctant to do anything except lob a few drones, withdrawing troops from Iraq too early and failing to lead. Hillary on the other hand is more calculating and cautious than Dubya but tougher and more hawklike than Obama, she may be what is needed. Trump would just be George W Bush 2 (with anti immigrant rhetoric added on), Sanders Obama on steriods!
If only Mr Brind did not carry so much resentment and baggage from his view of history. I agree with Mr Brind that Cameron made a partisan remark. It was wrong and diminished Cameron.
But we also have from Mr Brind a set of attacks on Thatcher for winning an election on the back of her decision and hers alone, to win back the Falklands. That was a courageous decision in the face of some around her that wanted to back off and talk to the invaders.
If we ever need to wonder why Kinnock never became PM "Mr Neil Kinnock re-opened the row over the Falklands war last night when he told a Television South audience that it was a pity soldiers had to die to prove that Mrs Thatcher had guts."
Is it not also prescient that Mr. Brind completely ignore Ed Miliband's shenanigans barely 2 years ago - maybe he just spent too long working for al -Beeb.
Ed Miliband interviewed on C4 news just now hailing the increase in Labour's membership while attending the Paris climate talks
What the f##k is Ed doing at those talks? The last thing we need is that numpty involved.
Sky News Newsdesk @SkyNewsBreak 5m5 minutes ago Update - The FBI says it is officially investigating the #California mass shooting as an act of #terrorism
Obama is tostada
It does not look like an ISIS planned attack, just two disgruntled former employees who happened to be Muslim and decided to link a grudge attack to support for ISIS, nonetheless does show US not immune to homegrown terrorism either
I don't think this is true. It certainly looks like they targeted this work place over a grudge and probably wasn't the target they were planning. Nobody has a bomb making factory in their garage over a workplace grudge. They might not have been directed by ISIS and self started instead, but this isn't just two disgruntled employees go loco.
Inspiration is not the same as co-ordination
If anything, it's more worrying. Much much harder to track and prevent.
Tighter borders and better surveillance and monitoring are key
Just watch a member of Momentum being interviewed on the BBC. She was very attractive, very middle-class, very well-spoken and very persuasive. Looked like butter wouldn't melt in her mouth. I really hope the Labour moderates are up for this fight because I'm not sure all of them are.
Has anyone else encountered a party getting 100% of the postal votes within a particular area of a constituency? Maybe it is more common in those one party state constituencies.
NIGEL Farage called for an investigation into the Oldham West byelection today after Labour scooped an unprecedented 100 PER CENT of the votes in one area
Sky News Newsdesk @SkyNewsBreak 5m5 minutes ago Update - The FBI says it is officially investigating the #California mass shooting as an act of #terrorism
Obama is tostada
It does not look like an ISIS planned attack, just two disgruntled former employees who happened to be Muslim and decided to link a grudge attack to support for ISIS, nonetheless does show US not immune to homegrown terrorism either
I don't think this is true. It certainly looks like they targeted this work place over a grudge and probably wasn't the target they were planning. Nobody has a bomb making factory in their garage over a workplace grudge. They might not have been directed by ISIS and self started instead, but this isn't just two disgruntled employees go loco.
Inspiration is not the same as co-ordination
Never said anything about coordination. What I was saying is clear, having a pipe bomb making factory in their garage wasn't about a bust up over somebody nicking the last cup at the water cooler.
There have been many homegrown terrorists in the US
Just a note: IS claims the San Bernadino shootings as its own in the last hour.
The US authorities were expecting something. I mentioned just around a week ago that there were strong rumours of something going to occur in the US.
If that is true then why did Obama make these remarks about America being safe from ISIS, and an ISIS attack is unlikely, and "we have no specific warnings".
These are disastrous headlines for Obama, in retrospect
Did the FBI not tell the prez they WERE expecting something? Doubt it. So your story is untrue.
Obama is in deep shit.
What Obama was doing talking about gun control as a primary concern when that kind of info was in circulation, the cops had found explosives and Homeland Security as an overall agency was taking a keen interest beats me, but he did.
Obama was going on about gun control because that's his default mode. A more serious terrorist attack on the US is going to make him look like a rabbit caught in the headlights - and if we can see that, the terrorists can see it too.
Well terrorists can buy weapons in America since there is little control on who buys guns and ammunition.
Very true that an 'assault' style attack should be relatively easy to arrange in the US as the weapons are easier to come by legally in a lot of states.
I'm interested to find out what was in the garage of these people in California, the suspicion was that they had IEDs if not bombs ready to go, if so they may have been acting as a factory for others, or there may be a bomb factory in the US somewhere that's not yet discovered.
Sky News Newsdesk @SkyNewsBreak 5m5 minutes ago Update - The FBI says it is officially investigating the #California mass shooting as an act of #terrorism
Obama is tostada
It does not look like an ISIS planned attack, just two disgruntled former employees who happened to be Muslim and decided to link a grudge attack to support for ISIS, nonetheless does show US not immune to homegrown terrorism either
I don't think this is true. It certainly looks like they targeted this work place over a grudge and probably wasn't the target they were planning. Nobody has a bomb making factory in their garage over a workplace grudge. They might not have been directed by ISIS and self started instead, but this isn't just two disgruntled employees go loco.
A few people have arsenals anyway.
I've posted this at the end of a thread the other night, but nutters of all descriptions collect weapons:
I'm not saying this incident was not ISIS related, but nutters and weapons are like bees and flowers. Fortunately most do not get an opportunity or the will to use them.
All it takes is for one of these people to go postal.
Take David Tovey (first link). If he had met a few different people, or read a few different websites, he might have been a Muslim would-be terrorist rather than a right-wing one.
They are little people looking to belong; wanting to belong to something bigger than them in a world that is ignoring them.
Of course the killing couple in California weren't Muslim...they were just your average family unit going out to shoot some folk..after visiting terror central just a few weeks previously.. and having a garage stuffed full of bomb making material and ammo..heheh just your average fun loving all American family....I mean.. how could anyone draw any other conclusion...
Amazing that Labour can drop their majority by around 4000 and claim it is a stupendous victory
It's probably because they know something about politics that you seem not to. Turnout goes down in by-elections, doubly so for by-elections in December.
Labour did very well yesterday.
Does that mean a huge amount? Not really. But to argue that it was not a good result is either ignorant or wilfully daft.
Amazing that Labour can drop their majority by around 4000 and claim it is a stupendous victory
That is a Dan Hodges level of excuse.
Dan Hodges @DPJHodges 8h8 hours ago Dear Corbynites. I know you want me to say "I was wrong, Labour's majority increased". But I can't. Because it didn't. I'm sorry.
Practically with the turnout, Labour would have needed to be more that 50% in the lead to achieve the exact same number of votes as in the GE, rather that just 40%.
Ed Miliband interviewed on C4 news just now hailing the increase in Labour's membership while attending the Paris climate talks
Lots of Labour figures were boasting about rising membership after the general election, but not so many in recent months. I suspect that a lot of senior Labour people would rather the membership had stayed flat. They sure as hell aren't signing up to support the likes of Ed Miliband.
If only Mr Brind did not carry so much resentment and baggage from his view of history. I agree with Mr Brind that Cameron made a partisan remark. It was wrong and diminished Cameron.
But we also have from Mr Brind a set of attacks on Thatcher for winning an election on the back of her decision and hers alone, to win back the Falklands. That was a courageous decision in the face of some around her that wanted to back off and talk to the invaders.
If we ever need to wonder why Kinnock never became PM "Mr Neil Kinnock re-opened the row over the Falklands war last night when he told a Television South audience that it was a pity soldiers had to die to prove that Mrs Thatcher had guts."
Is it not also prescient that Mr. Brind completely ignore Ed Miliband's shenanigans barely 2 years ago - maybe he just spent too long working for al -Beeb.
Ed Miliband interviewed on C4 news just now hailing the increase in Labour's membership while attending the Paris climate talks
He is largely responsible for the mess they're in right now and I'm amazed he has the gall to attend climate change talks after the mess of Copenhagen. What is it with Labour and self-awareness?
A university should be a “safe space” – for free speech, for challenging dogmas and assumptions, for putting forward innovative ideas, for robust debate, for discovery, for intellectual courage. It should not be a safe space for preserving the timidities and assurances of pre-university childhood and adolescence.
Facing the world and its complexities in order to understand and deal with them is obviously far better than burying one’s head in the sand, hoping that the nasty things will go away because one is ignoring them. The latter attitude is worse than silly, it is infantilising and disempowering – precisely what university life should not be.
I don't want to be ghoulish, but there may be betting implication from the San Berno story.
This must make more rightwing nominees and a more rightwing president more likely.
Why more than any of the other mass shooting perpetrated by Muslims in Ameica?
This is the biggest Islamic terror attack on US soil since 9/11
It is especially cruel in terms of the victims
It is more random than most so more worrying
It is directly linked to ISIS who have pledged to bring their war to America, and who are the biggest terrorist threat the world has ever seen
It comes just after Paris
It comes as the American left wants to invite in Syrian refugees
Obama made those dumb remarks about America being safe from ISIS even as the ISIS-linked killers were offing their workmates
It's a collision of perceptions and actualities, which forms a near-perfect storm for the Republicans (though the stupidity of the GOP means they might not benefit)
All of the above is accurate except the ISIS bit, those people did it by themselves in a country with few safeguards on weapons, they simply plastered the ISIS logo on top like a chinese imitation of Gucci bags.
Has anyone else encountered a party getting 100% of the postal votes within a particular area of a constituency? Maybe it is more common in those one party state constituencies.
NIGEL Farage called for an investigation into the Oldham West byelection today after Labour scooped an unprecedented 100 PER CENT of the votes in one area
Amazing that Labour can drop their majority by around 4000 and claim it is a stupendous victory
It's probably because they know something about politics that you seem not to. Turnout goes down in by-elections, doubly so for by-elections in December.
Labour did very well yesterday.
Does that mean a huge amount? Not really. But to argue that it was not a good result is either ignorant or wilfully daft.
Much better than David Cameron's first byelection as Tory leader, too.
I remember reading how modern engineers (sorry JJ) were storing up problems for their successors to solve with prestressing in massive structures, e.g. skyscrapers. Huge amounts of strain energy stored in those, I gathered.
It will be interesting to see how they demolish FB2 (FB1, the railway one, seems to be doing OK now it is actually being maintained). I can't remember the navigational details - it ain't Pompey - but if it is shallow enough, it is possible that the MoD might have a few issues with just dumping the steelwork in the Forth given the need for the new carriers to be docked at Rosyth.
I think you mean post-tensioning, rather than pre-stressing (pre-tensioned). If people want I could get boring about the differences, but suffice it to say that post-tensioned structure are bombs waiting to go off. Pre-stressed are not.
I've experienced the demolition of a small post-tensioned structure. Impressive isn't the word. Dangerous is.
As for demolishing the Forth bridge: they wouldn't let it be dropped into the Forth. Ecologists would have a field day. It would have to be dismantled. And that's a massive headache.
(I don't know if you saw earlier, but I found a link to a tunnel under the Forth)
"To evoke the international brigades in support of Cameron’s bombing campaign requires real audacity, bad faith, and an indifference to history or the political realities of the 21st century. Benn does not even seem to realize that the jihadist movement that ultimately spawned Daesh is far closer to the spirit of internationalism and solidarity that drove the International Brigades than Cameron’s bombing campaign – except that the international jihad takes the form of solidarity with oppressed Muslims, rather than the working class or the socialist revolution."
Losing 4000 votes is most definitely not an amazing victory..no matter which way the figures are spun.. the reality is that 4000 people who voted for you last time did not vote for you this time..get effin real..
Amazing that Labour can drop their majority by around 4000 and claim it is a stupendous victory
It's probably because they know something about politics that you seem not to. Turnout goes down in by-elections, doubly so for by-elections in December.
Labour did very well yesterday.
Does that mean a huge amount? Not really. But to argue that it was not a good result is either ignorant or wilfully daft.
Much better than David Cameron's first byelection as Tory leader, too.
William Hague increased the Tory vote by almost 8% in Uxbridge in 1997 again with a good local candidate, he was trounced in the general election
Ed Miliband interviewed on C4 news just now hailing the increase in Labour's membership while attending the Paris climate talks
Lots of Labour figures were boasting about rising membership after the general election, but not so many in recent months. I suspect that a lot of senior Labour people would rather the membership had stayed flat. They sure as hell aren't signing up to support the likes of Ed Miliband.
Has anyone else encountered a party getting 100% of the postal votes within a particular area of a constituency? Maybe it is more common in those one party state constituencies.
NIGEL Farage called for an investigation into the Oldham West byelection today after Labour scooped an unprecedented 100 PER CENT of the votes in one area
How can he possibly know that? All postal votes are validated together but not counted and not by individual areas before polling day and then all are added to and mixed in with those cast during the day. Farage is talking rubbish.
Benn does not even seem to realize that the jihadist movement that ultimately spawned Daesh is far closer to the spirit of internationalism and solidarity that drove the International Brigades than Cameron’s bombing campaign – except that the international jihad takes the form of solidarity with oppressed Muslims, rather than the working class or the socialist revolution.
It is obvious that not all Muslims who have gone to fight in Iraq, Syria, Chechnya and other places have gone to these countries to obtain sexual slaves and throw homosexuals off balconies
Oh, well that's ok then. They just willingly throw their lot in with people who obtain sexual slaves and throw homosexuals off balconies,
But, no, it's fine, because they did also say:
Whether Daesh is fascist or not, it is certainly a savage and dangerous movement which needs to be defeated
So they do need to be defeated, say Stop the War, but given their name fighting them is out of the question, so I presume they will be defeated once we acknowledge that not everyone who fights for them is evil, and acknowledge they are trying to show solidarity with oppressed Muslims. So all we have to do is tell IS they are justified in motivation, but a little but nasty about it, and peace is possible?
If only Mr Brind did not carry so much resentment and baggage from his view of history. I agree with Mr Brind that Cameron made a partisan remark. It was wrong and diminished Cameron.
But we also have from Mr Brind a set of attacks on Thatcher for winning an election on the back of her decision and hers alone, to win back the Falklands. That was a courageous decision in the face of some around her that wanted to back off and talk to the invaders.
If we ever need to wonder why Kinnock never became PM "Mr Neil Kinnock re-opened the row over the Falklands war last night when he told a Television South audience that it was a pity soldiers had to die to prove that Mrs Thatcher had guts."
Is it not also prescient that Mr. Brind completely ignore Ed Miliband's shenanigans barely 2 years ago - maybe he just spent too long working for al -Beeb.
Ed Miliband interviewed on C4 news just now hailing the increase in Labour's membership while attending the Paris climate talks
He is largely responsible for the mess they're in right now and I'm amazed he has the gall to attend climate change talks after the mess of Copenhagen. What is it with Labour and self-awareness?
Losing 4000 votes is most definitely not an amazing victory..no matter which way the figures are spun.. the reality is that 4000 people who voted for you last time did not vote for you this time..get effin real..
By that account the conservatives should be the biggest losers out of Oldham.
There is a reason why we use vote shares in By-Elections to calculate majorities rather than votes, and that is because turnout is always smaller, and Oldham did quite well with only a 20% drop considering it's December and weather was terrible on poll day.
You are worse than UKIP in moaning about the result, you should accept it and move on:
Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB 17h17 hours ago Hard to conclude anything other than that Oldham is a very good result for Corbyn and Labour.
Speedy..like I said.. losing 4000 votes over a short period is devastating..and nowhere near a victory...4000 who voted for you last time did not vote for you this time..regardless of the weather and time of year..and your convoluted explanation....but please continue to view the reality from your head up your fundament position..
ISIS specifically requests of Muslims in kaffir-land that they go out and kill kaffirs in lone wolf operations - and to pledge allegiance to ISIS while they do it (technically known as "bayat")
This seems to be precisely what happened in California.
So while ISIS did not resource or plan this operation, they certainly have their branding all over it. This operation was more like a franchise than a fake rip-off.
The freelancers and smaller groups used to pledge allegiance to al-Qaeda, that's what the psychopath al-Zarqawi did in Iraq, and he was so brutal that the al-Qaeda leadership started to rebuke him. Nowadays the "hip" terrorists pledge allegiance to IS. If an even more brutal and notorious group comes along they will pick up followers in a similar fashion.
Oh no - Alex Salmond is on HIGNFY. He seems like the kind of guy who can be funny on certain narrowly defined subjects, but utterly without humour in many others.
Oh no - Alex Salmond is on HIGNFY. He seems like the kind of guy who can be funny on certain narrowly defined subjects, but utterly without humour in many others.
Oh no - Alex Salmond is on HIGNFY. He seems like the kind of guy who can be funny on certain narrowly defined subjects, but utterly without humour in many others.
Thanks for the heads up. I'll stay in the pub and avoid it.
Comments
I'm interested to find out what was in the garage of these people in California, the suspicion was that they had IEDs if not bombs ready to go, if so they may have been acting as a factory for others, or there may be a bomb factory in the US somewhere that's not yet discovered.
I've posted this at the end of a thread the other night, but nutters of all descriptions collect weapons:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/white-supremacist-hoarded-arsenal-of-guns-for-race-war-138876.html
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/jul/15/neo-nazi-bomb-plan
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/weapons-arsenal-seized-nazis-who-2793158
http://www.expressandstar.com/news/crime/2015/08/13/weapons-stash-nurse-a-grave-risk/
I'm not saying this incident was not ISIS related, but nutters and weapons are like bees and flowers. Fortunately most do not get an opportunity or the will to use them.
All it takes is for one of these people to go postal.
Take David Tovey (first link). If he had met a few different people, or read a few different websites, he might have been a Muslim would-be terrorist rather than a right-wing one.
They are little people looking to belong; wanting to belong to something bigger than them in a world that is ignoring them.
Labour did very well yesterday.
Does that mean a huge amount? Not really. But to argue that it was not a good result is either ignorant or wilfully daft.
Dan Hodges @DPJHodges 8h8 hours ago
Dear Corbynites. I know you want me to say "I was wrong, Labour's majority increased". But I can't. Because it didn't. I'm sorry.
https://twitter.com/jpublik/status/672586651600859136
Practically with the turnout, Labour would have needed to be more that 50% in the lead to achieve the exact same number of votes as in the GE, rather that just 40%.
@J_Bloodworth: Stop the War praise the "internationalism and solidarity" of... ISIS https://t.co/4QGs9IXTGG https://t.co/utxTJcaPrj
Marvellous.
How does Farage KNOW Labour scooped 100% in one ?ward ?polling district? Incidentally, I can,from experience, just about believe the latter.
[OT - but you might like this, not sure if you can get the pdf if you can log on
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/250229100_A_Coal_Mine_in_the_Sea_Culross_and_the_Moat_Pit
http://tafac.org.uk/tafaj21.pdf
http://www.euppublishing.com/doi/abs/10.3366/E1471576709000400 ]
"To evoke the international brigades in support of Cameron’s bombing campaign requires real audacity, bad faith, and an indifference to history or the political realities of the 21st century. Benn does not even seem to realize that the jihadist movement that ultimately spawned Daesh is far closer to the spirit of internationalism and solidarity that drove the International Brigades than Cameron’s bombing campaign – except that the international jihad takes the form of solidarity with oppressed Muslims, rather than the working class or the socialist revolution."
How can he possibly know that? All postal votes are validated together but not counted and not by individual areas before polling day and then all are added to and mixed in with those cast during the day. Farage is talking rubbish.
It is obvious that not all Muslims who have gone to fight in Iraq, Syria, Chechnya and other places have gone to these countries to obtain sexual slaves and throw homosexuals off balconies
Oh, well that's ok then. They just willingly throw their lot in with people who obtain sexual slaves and throw homosexuals off balconies,
But, no, it's fine, because they did also say:
Whether Daesh is fascist or not, it is certainly a savage and dangerous movement which needs to be defeated
So they do need to be defeated, say Stop the War, but given their name fighting them is out of the question, so I presume they will be defeated once we acknowledge that not everyone who fights for them is evil, and acknowledge they are trying to show solidarity with oppressed Muslims. So all we have to do is tell IS they are justified in motivation, but a little but nasty about it, and peace is possible?
Cretins.
I will use it to annoy my lefty mates on FB.
There is a reason why we use vote shares in By-Elections to calculate majorities rather than votes, and that is because turnout is always smaller, and Oldham did quite well with only a 20% drop considering it's December and weather was terrible on poll day.
You are worse than UKIP in moaning about the result, you should accept it and move on:
Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB 17h17 hours ago
Hard to conclude anything other than that Oldham is a very good result for Corbyn and Labour.
"They don't like it up'em!"
The question is, are those aiming to execute here or on their way?
On the plus side, there is at least some security understanding of possibilities with no political denial of this.
I'll stay in the pub and avoid it.
new thread