Does it pledge to admit 600000 to the UK with a net figure of 300000?
It doesn't pledge or advocate anything, but explores the figures and the choices. If you VanillaMail me your email address, I'll happily send you a copy.
I am sure your paper is jolly erudite and worth reading. Politically though the issue is quite simple and doesn't require too much study. Cameron said his government will reduce net immigration to below 100,000 pa. it is currently running at above 300,000 and the last set of figures showed an increase not a decrease.
There is performance and there are excuses. Cameron has failed and is failing to perform to the criteria he himself set.
I think this Government has taken all the measures it is willing to take on immigration. There are further steps that could be taken, but Osborne doesn't want it.
His latest thinking is to remove students from the figures on the basis they are temporary and all 'go home'.
That'd flatter the numbers but change nothing. So called "students" aren't like tourists.
I think you are correct on all counts, Mr. Royale. Now where does that leave Cameron's promise and reputation?
Well, the promise is just another one discarded and in terms of his reputation it probably will not make that much difference. At least not on its own, but it could be added to the weight of evidence in a narrative if any party wanted to build such a narrative.
I don't think Cameron intervenes much with the ongoing Osborne/May battle.
He'll weigh in among his colleagues where he has to but he's more interested in the big picture stuff, presentationism, and statecraft.
That means he'll keep the pledge but leave the details to his team, which means Osborne wins.
@PolhomeEditor: BREAKING: Alex Salmond refuses to apologise for saying Tony Benn would be "birling in his grave" at his son Hilary's Syria speech.
Why should he apologise.
He's spot on the money. Tony Benn would be devastated to see his son vote to send British troops into harms way without any benefit from that action and the likely killing of plenty more civilians.
Hilary is a disgrace to his family name. He should be the first name on the Labour cull. They can't continue with a party filled with Red Tories. They know where that will take them, after all, Scotland will be fresh in their minds.
On the other hand, here's the impartial judgement of someone writing more than a year ago:
"One of the attractive aspects of Tony Benn’s intriguing, complex character was that he never demanded of his own family that they should be what used to be called Bennites. His son Hilary has consistently defended the Iraq war that Dad so furiously opposed. The old man was thrilled when his 18 year old granddaughter, Emily, was adopted as a Labour candidate, notwithstanding that she was arguably more Blairite than her Uncle Hilary."
Who to believe, Alex Salmond or someone who knew him personally for many years?
It is perfectly consistent for someone to offer their offspring completely free reign in their life choices but still be disappointed at some of the choices they might make. There is a considerable difference between telling and hoping.
Either Benn's entire political life was one of hypocrisy and ideas he did not believe in or he would be disappointed that. while trying to persuade the public in general, he failed to even persuade his own son.
Long walk from '[Tony Benn] would be disappointed' to 'Hilary is a disgrace to his family name', but entirely expected.
There is a reason why I'm against political dynasties in politics, the offsprings are always worse, and that's a global rule (George Bush-George W.Bush- Jeb Bush). The Benn and Kinnock families are no exception.
@PolhomeEditor: BREAKING: Alex Salmond refuses to apologise for saying Tony Benn would be "birling in his grave" at his son Hilary's Syria speech.
Why should he apologise.
He's spot on the money. Tony Benn would be devastated to see his son vote to send British troops into harms way without any benefit from that action and the likely killing of plenty more civilians.
Hilary is a disgrace to his family name. He should be the first name on the Labour cull. They can't continue with a party filled with Red Tories. They know where that will take them, after all, Scotland will be fresh in their minds.
On the other hand, here's the impartial judgement of someone writing more than a year ago:
"One of the attractive aspects of Tony Benn’s intriguing, complex character was that he never demanded of his own family that they should be what used to be called Bennites. His son Hilary has consistently defended the Iraq war that Dad so furiously opposed. The old man was thrilled when his 18 year old granddaughter, Emily, was adopted as a Labour candidate, notwithstanding that she was arguably more Blairite than her Uncle Hilary."
Who to believe, Alex Salmond or someone who knew him personally for many years?
It is perfectly consistent for someone to offer their offspring completely free reign in their life choices but still be disappointed at some of the choices they might make. There is a considerable difference between telling and hoping.
Either Benn's entire political life was one of hypocrisy and ideas he did not believe in or he would be disappointed that. while trying to persuade the public in general, he failed to even persuade his own son.
Or, alternatively, Alex Salmond and you are odious cretins who presume to look into the souls of dead men to make cheap political points, failing to understand that there are human beings out there who accept and respect that decent people can come to different conclusions on the same facts.
Between pronouncing upon Tony Benn's familial relationships and concluding that @Roger must be having a mental breakdown, I see Admiral WikiDair is now chanelling his inner Freud. Roll up for some free psychoanalysis while you can.
Here's a nice snippet about the Benn family: "At age 67, [Tony Benn's father] flew several flights operationally as an RAF Bomber Aircrew gunner and is possibly the oldest man to do so"
O/T Just looking a a photo of a Typhoon landing in Cyprus today made me realise who the great beneficiaries of last night's vote actually are. I refer, of course, to the maintenance crews who instead of doing their job in winter in Lossiemouth are going to be doing it at Akrotiri. Much, much nicer.
Go for it, boys and girls, but stay away from Aya Napa - too down market for Crabs.
Of course, you could equally well argue that Tony Benn's hard-left views were a disgrace to the memory of his father and his grandfathers.
Heard Benn in conversation with a glamorous journalist a year before he died he was still fascinating and surprisingly perhaps said Thatcher was the politician he most admired as she was 'a signpost and not a weathervane' although he agreed with her on virtually nothing. In any case political dynasties often differ somewhat over time e.g. George W Bush was more conservative than George HW Bush and Ted Kennedy more liberal than JFK. Even Marine Le Pen is distancing herself from her fathet
@PolhomeEditor: BREAKING: Alex Salmond refuses to apologise for saying Tony Benn would be "birling in his grave" at his son Hilary's Syria speech.
Why should he apologise.
He's spot on the money. Tony Benn would be devastated to see his son vote to send British troops into harms way without any benefit from that action and the likely killing of plenty more civilians.
Hilary is a disgrace to his family name. He should be the first name on the Labour cull. They can't continue with a party filled with Red Tories. They know where that will take them, after all, Scotland will be fresh in their minds.
On the other hand, here's the impartial judgement of someone writing more than a year ago:
"One of the attractive aspects of Tony Benn’s intriguing, complex character was that he never demanded of his own family that they should be what used to be called Bennites. His son Hilary has consistently defended the Iraq war that Dad so furiously opposed. The old man was thrilled when his 18 year old granddaughter, Emily, was adopted as a Labour candidate, notwithstanding that she was arguably more Blairite than her Uncle Hilary."
Who to believe, Alex Salmond or someone who knew him personally for many years?
It is perfectly consistent for someone to offer their offspring completely free reign in their life choices but still be disappointed at some of the choices they might make. There is a considerable difference between telling and hoping.
Either Benn's entire political life was one of hypocrisy and ideas he did not believe in or he would be disappointed that. while trying to persuade the public in general, he failed to even persuade his own son.
Long walk from '[Tony Benn] would be disappointed' to 'Hilary is a disgrace to his family name', but entirely expected.
There is a reason why I'm against political dynasties in politics, the offsprings are always worse, and that's a global rule (George Bush-George W.Bush- Jeb Bush). The Benn and Kinnock families are no exception.
No high hopes for George P Bush, Land Commissioner of Texas (and future presidential candidate)?
Does it pledge to admit 600000 to the UK with a net figure of 300000?
It doesn't pledge or advocate anything, but explores the figures and the choices. If you VanillaMail me your email address, I'll happily send you a copy.
I am sure your paper is jolly erudite and worth reading. Politically though the issue is quite simple and doesn't require too much study. Cameron said his government will reduce net immigration to below 100,000 pa. it is currently running at above 300,000 and the last set of figures showed an increase not a decrease.
There is performance and there are excuses. Cameron has failed and is failing to perform to the criteria he himself set.
I think this Government has taken all the measures it is willing to take on immigration. There are further steps that could be taken, but Osborne doesn't want it.
His latest thinking is to remove students from the figures on the basis they are temporary and all 'go home'.
That'd flatter the numbers but change nothing. So called "students" aren't like tourists.
I think you are correct on all counts, Mr. Royale. Now where does that leave Cameron's promise and reputation?
Well, the promise is just another one discarded and in terms of his reputation it probably will not make that much difference. At least not on its own, but it could be added to the weight of evidence in a narrative if any party wanted to build such a narrative.
I don't think Cameron intervenes much with the ongoing Osborne/May battle.
He'll weigh in among his colleagues where he has to but he's more interested in the big picture stuff, presentationism, and statecraft.
That means he'll keep the pledge but leave the details to his team, which means Osborne wins.
Gosh, Mr Royale. I have for many years been very critical of Cameron but I don't think I have ever written as scathing as that post of yours.
@PolhomeEditor: BREAKING: Alex Salmond refuses to apologise for saying Tony Benn would be "birling in his grave" at his son Hilary's Syria speech.
Why should he apologise.
He's spot on the money. Tony Benn would be devastated to see his son vote to send British troops into harms way without any benefit from that action and the likely killing of plenty more civilians.
Hilary is a disgrace to his family name. He should be the first name on the Labour cull. They can't continue with a party filled with Red Tories. They know where that will take them, after all, Scotland will be fresh in their minds.
On the other hand, here's the impartial judgement of someone writing more than a year ago:
"One of the attractive aspects of Tony Benn’s intriguing, complex character was that he never demanded of his own family that they should be what used to be called Bennites. His son Hilary has consistently defended the Iraq war that Dad so furiously opposed. The old man was thrilled when his 18 year old granddaughter, Emily, was adopted as a Labour candidate, notwithstanding that she was arguably more Blairite than her Uncle Hilary."
Who to believe, Alex Salmond or someone who knew him personally for many years?
It is perfectly consistent for someone to offer their offspring completely free reign in their life choices but still be disappointed at some of the choices they might make. There is a considerable difference between telling and hoping.
Either Benn's entire political life was one of hypocrisy and ideas he did not believe in or he would be disappointed that. while trying to persuade the public in general, he failed to even persuade his own son.
Long walk from '[Tony Benn] would be disappointed' to 'Hilary is a disgrace to his family name', but entirely expected.
There is a reason why I'm against political dynasties in politics, the offsprings are always worse, and that's a global rule (George Bush-George W.Bush- Jeb Bush). The Benn and Kinnock families are no exception.
@PolhomeEditor: BREAKING: Alex Salmond refuses to apologise for saying Tony Benn would be "birling in his grave" at his son Hilary's Syria speech.
Why should he apologise.
He's spot on the money. Tony Benn would be devastated to see his son vote to send British troops into harms way without any benefit from that action and the likely killing of plenty more civilians.
Hilary is a disgrace to his family name. He should be the first name on the Labour cull. They can't continue with a party filled with Red Tories. They know where that will take them, after all, Scotland will be fresh in their minds.
On the other hand, here's the impartial judgement of someone writing more than a year ago:
"One of the attractive aspects of Tony Benn’s intriguing, complex character was that he never demanded of his own family that they should be what used to be called Bennites. His son Hilary has consistently defended the Iraq war that Dad so furiously opposed. The old man was thrilled when his 18 year old granddaughter, Emily, was adopted as a Labour candidate, notwithstanding that she was arguably more Blairite than her Uncle Hilary."
Who to believe, Alex Salmond or someone who knew him personally for many years?
It is perfectly consistent for someone to offer their offspring completely free reign in their life choices but still be disappointed at some of the choices they might make. There is a considerable difference between telling and hoping.
Either Benn's entire political life was one of hypocrisy and ideas he did not believe in or he would be disappointed that. while trying to persuade the public in general, he failed to even persuade his own son.
Long walk from '[Tony Benn] would be disappointed' to 'Hilary is a disgrace to his family name', but entirely expected.
There is a reason why I'm against political dynasties in politics, the offsprings are always worse, and that's a global rule (George Bush-George W.Bush- Jeb Bush). The Benn and Kinnock families are no exception.
The Windsors? Before them the Hanoverians? You wouldn't say Charles was a shining example, would you?
@PolhomeEditor: BREAKING: Alex Salmond refuses to apologise for saying Tony Benn would be "birling in his grave" at his son Hilary's Syria speech.
Why should he apologise.
He's spot on the money. Tony Benn would be devastated to see his son vote to send British troops into harms way without any benefit from that action and the likely killing of plenty more civilians.
Hilary is a disgrace to his family name. He should be the first name on the Labour cull. They can't continue with a party filled with Red Tories. They know where that will take them, after all, Scotland will be fresh in their minds.
On the other hand, here's the impartial judgement of someone writing more than a year ago:
"One of the attractive aspects of Tony Benn’s intriguing, complex character was that he never demanded of his own family that they should be what used to be called Bennites. His son Hilary has consistently defended the Iraq war that Dad so furiously opposed. The old man was thrilled when his 18 year old granddaughter, Emily, was adopted as a Labour candidate, notwithstanding that she was arguably more Blairite than her Uncle Hilary."
Who to believe, Alex Salmond or someone who knew him personally for many years?
It is perfectly consistent for someone to offer their offspring completely free reign in their life choices but still be disappointed at some of the choices they might make. There is a considerable difference between telling and hoping.
Either Benn's entire political life was one of hypocrisy and ideas he did not believe in or he would be disappointed that. while trying to persuade the public in general, he failed to even persuade his own son.
Long walk from '[Tony Benn] would be disappointed' to 'Hilary is a disgrace to his family name', but entirely expected.
There is a reason why I'm against political dynasties in politics, the offsprings are always worse, and that's a global rule (George Bush-George W.Bush- Jeb Bush). The Benn and Kinnock families are no exception.
No high hopes for George P Bush, Land Commissioner of Texas (and future presidential candidate)?
President 2024 maybe Bobby Kennedy's grandson Congressman Joseph P Kennedy President 2032? FDR and Teddy Roosevelt were also distant cousins. Pitt the younger was probably better than Pitt the Elder
Has our Roger changed sides? twitter.com/rog_ukip/status/672481633967218688
From his posts over the last few weeks, it's pretty much impossible to tell where Roger is now. It's like he's having a mental breakdown in real time on the forum.
Seemed pretty sane in the Beeston PB meet up in May.
@PolhomeEditor: BREAKING: Alex Salmond refuses to apologise for saying Tony Benn would be "birling in his grave" at his son Hilary's Syria speech.
Why should he apologise.
He's spot on the money. Tony Benn would be devastated to see his son vote to send British troops into harms way without any benefit from that action and the likely killing of plenty more civilians.
Hilary is a disgrace to his family name. He should be the first name on the Labour cull. They can't continue with a party filled with Red Tories. They know where that will take them, after all, Scotland will be fresh in their minds.
On the other hand, here's the impartial judgement of someone writing more than a year ago:
"One of the attractive aspects of Tony Benn’s intriguing, complex character was that he never demanded of his own family that they should be what used to be called Bennites. His son Hilary has consistently defended the Iraq war that Dad so furiously opposed. The old man was thrilled when his 18 year old granddaughter, Emily, was adopted as a Labour candidate, notwithstanding that she was arguably more Blairite than her Uncle Hilary."
Who to believe, Alex Salmond or someone who knew him personally for many years?
It is perfectly consistent for someone to offer their offspring completely free reign in their life choices but still be disappointed at some of the choices they might make. There is a considerable difference between telling and hoping.
Either Benn's entire political life was one of hypocrisy and ideas he did not believe in or he would be disappointed that. while trying to persuade the public in general, he failed to even persuade his own son.
Long walk from '[Tony Benn] would be disappointed' to 'Hilary is a disgrace to his family name', but entirely expected.
I think he'd be quite pleased that his son was his own man.
18:18 - Nigel Farage isn't too confident about the postal votes, Laura Hughes reports.
Speaking in UKIP's Royton headquarters, Nigel Farage told journalists: "If this was taking place today in one of dozens of other constituencies in the north of England we would have won it comfortably.
"The reason it's close and the reason I can't be confident about the postal votes is because in this constituency there is a particular block vote that is a very difficult demographic for UKIP."
Asked on where he he was referring to Asians voters as this "block vote", he said: "I'm going to say nothing because otherwise you'll all scream at me."
What is he wrong about? (other than assuming they'd have won comfortably in any other northern constituency)
Maybe just maybe if he was a tad less xenophobic that demographic wouldn't be so difficult for him.
Do you think Nigel xenophobic and if so why?
Yes I do and because of some of his remarks. I think when he's on top of his game he puts a veneer on it but I think he is. I think his party much more so. He is a more Middle Class and much more polished xenophobe than others so I wouldn't compare him to many other politicians. Puts the polite face on it.
Does it pledge to admit 600000 to the UK with a net figure of 300000?
It doesn't pledge or advocate anything, but explores the figures and the choices. If you VanillaMail me your email address, I'll happily send you a copy.
I am sure your paper is jolly erudite and worth reading. Politically though the issue is quite simple and doesn't require too much study. Cameron said his government will reduce net immigration to below 100,000 pa. it is currently running at above 300,000 and the last set of figures showed an increase not a decrease.
There is performance and there are excuses. Cameron has failed and is failing to perform to the criteria he himself set.
I think this Government has taken all the measures it is willing to take on immigration. There are further steps that could be taken, but Osborne doesn't want it.
His latest thinking is to remove students from the figures on the basis they are temporary and all 'go home'.
That'd flatter the numbers but change nothing. So called "students" aren't like tourists.
I think you are correct on all counts, Mr. Royale. Now where does that leave Cameron's promise and reputation?
Well, the promise is just another one discarded and in terms of his reputation it probably will not make that much difference. At least not on its own, but it could be added to the weight of evidence in a narrative if any party wanted to build such a narrative.
I don't think Cameron intervenes much with the ongoing Osborne/May battle.
He'll weigh in among his colleagues where he has to but he's more interested in the big picture stuff, presentationism, and statecraft.
That means he'll keep the pledge but leave the details to his team, which means Osborne wins.
Gosh, Mr Royale. I have for many years been very critical of Cameron but I don't think I have ever written as scathing as that post of yours.
I think it's a good trait in a leader to worry about the big picture and put faith in your team to help.
When the opposite was done with Brown stuff it was an absolute disaster.
@PolhomeEditor: BREAKING: Alex Salmond refuses to apologise for saying Tony Benn would be "birling in his grave" at his son Hilary's Syria speech.
Why should he apologise.
He's spot on the money. Tony Benn would be devastated to see his son vote to send British troops into harms way without any benefit from that action and the likely killing of plenty more civilians.
Hilary is a disgrace to his family name. He should be the first name on the Labour cull. They can't continue with a party filled with Red Tories. They know where that will take them, after all, Scotland will be fresh in their minds.
On the other hand, here's the impartial judgement of someone writing more than a year ago:
"One of the attractive aspects of Tony Benn’s intriguing, complex character was that he never demanded of his own family that they should be what used to be called Bennites. His son Hilary has consistently defended the Iraq war that Dad so furiously opposed. The old man was thrilled when his 18 year old granddaughter, Emily, was adopted as a Labour candidate, notwithstanding that she was arguably more Blairite than her Uncle Hilary."
Who to believe, Alex Salmond or someone who knew him personally for many years?
It is perfectly consistent for someone to offer their offspring completely free reign in their life choices but still be disappointed at some of the choices they might make. There is a considerable difference between telling and hoping.
Either Benn's entire political life was one of hypocrisy and ideas he did not believe in or he would be disappointed that. while trying to persuade the public in general, he failed to even persuade his own son.
Long walk from '[Tony Benn] would be disappointed' to 'Hilary is a disgrace to his family name', but entirely expected.
I think he'd be quite pleased that his son was his own man.
How dare you look into look into the soul of a dead man.
Has our Roger changed sides? twitter.com/rog_ukip/status/672481633967218688
From his posts over the last few weeks, it's pretty much impossible to tell where Roger is now. It's like he's having a mental breakdown in real time on the forum.
Seemed pretty sane in the Beeston PB meet up in May.
On the other hand: you have to question the sanity of anyone going to a political betting meet in Beeston! What next? A meeting on the history of French lingerie during the realm of Louis XIV held in Runcorn?
@PolhomeEditor: BREAKING: Alex Salmond refuses to apologise for saying Tony Benn would be "birling in his grave" at his son Hilary's Syria speech.
Why should he apologise.
He's spot on the money. Tony Benn would be devastated to see his son vote to send British troops into harms way without any benefit from that action and the likely killing of plenty more civilians.
Hilary is a disgrace to his family name. He should be the first name on the Labour cull. They can't continue with a party filled with Red Tories. They know where that will take them, after all, Scotland will be fresh in their minds.
On the other
It is perfectly consistent for someone to offer their offspring completely free reign in their life choices but still be disappointed at some of the choices they might make. There is a considerable difference between telling and hoping.
Either Benn's entire political life was one of hypocrisy and ideas he did not believe in or he would be disappointed that. while trying to persuade the public in general, he failed to even persuade his own son.
Long walk from '[Tony Benn] would be disappointed' to 'Hilary is a disgrace to his family name', but entirely expected.
There is a reason why I'm against political dynasties in politics, the offsprings are always worse, and that's a global rule (George Bush-George W.Bush- Jeb Bush). The Benn and Kinnock families are no exception.
No high hopes for George P Bush, Land Commissioner of Texas (and future presidential candidate)?
President 2024 maybe Bobby Kennedy's grandson Congressman Joseph P Kennedy President 2032? FDR and Teddy Roosevelt were also distant cousins. Pitt the younger was probably better than Pitt the Elder
Do we have any political dynasties here other than the Benns? Emily Benn will surely be rewarded for her efforts with a more winnable at some point.
I suppose there's Kinnock. Prescott's son attempted to win a seat, as did Straw's?
On the Tory side there's Soames (is he still an MP?), and there must be more. Richard Drax?
Has our Roger changed sides? twitter.com/rog_ukip/status/672481633967218688
From his posts over the last few weeks, it's pretty much impossible to tell where Roger is now. It's like he's having a mental breakdown in real time on the forum.
Seemed pretty sane in the Beeston PB meet up in May.
On the other hand: you have to question the sanity of anyone going to a political betting meet in Beeston! What next? A meeting on the history of French lingerie during the realm of Louis XIV held in Runcorn?
The Windors? Before them the Hanoverians? You wouldn't Charles was a shining example, would you?
Edward III was a much better king than his Dad (unless you were French of course). Henry IV was a bit of a shit but his boy was very good (again unless you were French). Charles II was a better in the job that Charles I (but then so would Mad Jock McMad winner of Mr. Madman competition 1640 had he been given the chance). Winston Churchill was a rather more successful politician than his father (even if you were French - which makes a change).
One can always find examples of political dynasties when the son does better than the father or the reverse if you want.
Has our Roger changed sides? twitter.com/rog_ukip/status/672481633967218688
From his posts over the last few weeks, it's pretty much impossible to tell where Roger is now. It's like he's having a mental breakdown in real time on the forum.
Seemed pretty sane in the Beeston PB meet up in May.
On the other hand: you have to question the sanity of anyone going to a political betting meet in Beeston! What next? A meeting on the history of French lingerie during the realm of Louis XIV held in Runcorn?
What's wrong with Beeston? Not a middle miles from my abode. We do bet in the East Midlands.
Has our Roger changed sides? twitter.com/rog_ukip/status/672481633967218688
From his posts over the last few weeks, it's pretty much impossible to tell where Roger is now. It's like he's having a mental breakdown in real time on the forum.
Seemed pretty sane in the Beeston PB meet up in May.
On the other hand: you have to question the sanity of anyone going to a political betting meet in Beeston! What next? A meeting on the history of French lingerie during the realm of Louis XIV held in Runcorn?
What's wrong with Beeston? Not a middle miles from my abode. We do bet in the East Midlands.
Not far away from where some of my family live either, and some friends.
But Beeston ? Mind you, at least they have a Birds Bakery, so you could have had some of the country's best pork pies as you talked.
Has our Roger changed sides? twitter.com/rog_ukip/status/672481633967218688
From his posts over the last few weeks, it's pretty much impossible to tell where Roger is now. It's like he's having a mental breakdown in real time on the forum.
Seemed pretty sane in the Beeston PB meet up in May.
On the other hand: you have to question the sanity of anyone going to a political betting meet in Beeston! What next? A meeting on the history of French lingerie during the realm of Louis XIV held in Runcorn?
A very marginal seat, and a very decent pint. A very interesting night in the dying days of the coalition. It helped me with my final stakes...
The Windors? Before them the Hanoverians? You wouldn't Charles was a shining example, would you?
Edward III was a much better king than his Dad (unless you were French of course). Henry IV was a bit of a shit but his boy was very good (again unless you were French). Charles II was a better in the job that Charles I (but then so would Mad Jock McMad winner of Mr. Madman competition 1640 had he been given the chance). Winston Churchill was a rather more successful politician than his father (even if you were French - which makes a change).
One can always find examples of political dynasties when the son does better than the father or the reverse if you want.
Hmmm. Always exceptions, I agree. Agree about Charles II on all counts. Could argue that George VI did a better job as the father of the next Monarch than his father.
Has our Roger changed sides? twitter.com/rog_ukip/status/672481633967218688
From his posts over the last few weeks, it's pretty much impossible to tell where Roger is now. It's like he's having a mental breakdown in real time on the forum.
Seemed pretty sane in the Beeston PB meet up in May.
On the other hand: you have to question the sanity of anyone going to a political betting meet in Beeston! What next? A meeting on the history of French lingerie during the realm of Louis XIV held in Runcorn?
What's wrong with Beeston? Not a middle miles from my abode. We do bet in the East Midlands.
I live in Beeston.....nice enough area but not great and the tram is very useful.
Has our Roger changed sides? twitter.com/rog_ukip/status/672481633967218688
From his posts over the last few weeks, it's pretty much impossible to tell where Roger is now. It's like he's having a mental breakdown in real time on the forum.
Seemed pretty sane in the Beeston PB meet up in May.
On the other hand: you have to question the sanity of anyone going to a political betting meet in Beeston! What next? A meeting on the history of French lingerie during the realm of Louis XIV held in Runcorn?
A very marginal seat, and a very decent pint. A very interesting night in the dying days of the coalition. It helped me with my final stakes...
No longer a "very" marginal seat obviously. I predict a 8,000 majority if Labour continue down their current path.
@PolhomeEditor: BREAKING: Alex Salmond refuses to apologise for saying Tony Benn would be "birling in his grave" at his son Hilary's Syria speech.
Why should he apologise.
He's spot on the money. Tony Benn would be devastated to see his son vote to send British troops into harms way without any benefit from that action and the likely killing of plenty more civilians.
Hilary is a disgrace to his family name. He should be the first name on the Labour cull. They can't continue with a party filled with Red Tories. They know where that will take them, after all, Scotland will be fresh in their minds.
On the other hand, here's the impartial judgement of someone writing more than a year ago:
"One of the attractive aspects of Tony Benn’s intriguing, complex character was that he never demanded of his own family that they should be what used to be called Bennites. His son Hilary has consistently defended the Iraq war that Dad so furiously opposed. The old man was thrilled when his 18 year old granddaughter, Emily, was adopted as a Labour candidate, notwithstanding that she was arguably more Blairite than her Uncle Hilary."
Who to believe, Alex Salmond or someone who knew him personally for many years?
It is perfectly consistent for someone to offer their offspring completely free reign in their life choices but still be disappointed at some of the choices they might make. There is a considerable difference between telling and hoping.
Either Benn's entire political life was one of hypocrisy and ideas he did not believe in or he would be disappointed that. while trying to persuade the public in general, he failed to even persuade his own son.
Long walk from '[Tony Benn] would be disappointed' to 'Hilary is a disgrace to his family name', but entirely expected.
I think he'd be quite pleased that his son was his own man.
Benn was alive when his son voted for the Iraq War and did not disown him
The Windors? Before them the Hanoverians? You wouldn't Charles was a shining example, would you?
Edward III was a much better king than his Dad (unless you were French of course). Henry IV was a bit of a shit but his boy was very good (again unless you were French). Charles II was a better in the job that Charles I (but then so would Mad Jock McMad winner of Mr. Madman competition 1640 had he been given the chance). Winston Churchill was a rather more successful politician than his father (even if you were French - which makes a change).
One can always find examples of political dynasties when the son does better than the father or the reverse if you want.
Focus people, focus. I'm talking about political dynasties not Royal dynasties.
@PolhomeEditor: BREAKING: Alex Salmond refuses to apologise for saying Tony Benn would be "birling in his grave" at his son Hilary's Syria speech.
Why should he apologise.
He's spot on the money. Tony Benn would be devastated to see his son vote to send British troops into harms way without any benefit from that action and the likely killing of plenty more civilians.
Hilary is a disgrace to his family name. He should be the first name on the Labour cull. They can't continue with a party filled with Red Tories. They know where that will take them, after all, Scotland will be fresh in their minds.
On the other
It is perfectly consistent for someone to offer their offspring completely free reign in their life choices but still be disappointed at some of the choices they might make. There is a considerable difference between telling and hoping.
Either Benn's entire political life was one of hypocrisy and ideas he did not believe in or he would be disappointed that. while trying to persuade the public in general, he failed to even persuade his own son.
Long walk from '[Tony Benn] would be disappointed' to 'Hilary is a disgrace to his family name', but entirely expected.
There is a reason why I'm against political dynasties in politics, the offsprings are always worse, and that's a global rule (George Bush-George W.Bush- Jeb Bush). The Benn and Kinnock families are no exception.
No high hopes for George P Bush, Land Commissioner of Texas (and future presidential candidate)?
President 2024 maybe Bobby Kennedy's grandson Congressman Joseph P Kennedy President 2032? FDR and Teddy Roosevelt were also distant cousins. Pitt the younger was probably better than Pitt the Elder
Do we have any political dynasties here other than the Benns? Emily Benn will surely be rewarded for her efforts with a more winnable at some point.
I suppose there's Kinnock. Prescott's son attempted to win a seat, as did Straw's?
On the Tory side there's Soames (is he still an MP?), and there must be more. Richard Drax?
Ben Gummer was at school with me, his father John Gummer was Environment Secretary at the time, Nick Hurd is son of Douglas, Robin Walker succeeded his father Peter as MP for Worcester, also Zac Goldsmith's father founded the Referendum Party, Ian Paisley Jnr too.
Jack Straw's son Will fought the marginal seat of Rossendale in May but lost and leads the pro EU campaign
Has our Roger changed sides? twitter.com/rog_ukip/status/672481633967218688
From his posts over the last few weeks, it's pretty much impossible to tell where Roger is now. It's like he's having a mental breakdown in real time on the forum.
Seemed pretty sane in the Beeston PB meet up in May.
On the other hand: you have to question the sanity of anyone going to a political betting meet in Beeston! What next? A meeting on the history of French lingerie during the realm of Louis XIV held in Runcorn?
What's wrong with Beeston? Not a middle miles from my abode. We do bet in the East Midlands.
Not far away from where some of my family live either, and some friends.
But Beeston ? Mind you, at least they have a Birds Bakery, so you could have had some of the country's best pork pies as you talked.
(BTW, it was meant to be a joke).
Oi! Not a patch on Ye Olde Pork Pie Shoppe in Melton Mowbray I am sure, and don't suggest that they have decent cheese either!
As for the immigration argument, isn't the truth that Cameron doesn't really care that much about the numbers? It's not an outrageous viewpoint, many people don't, and fair enough. But as leader of the opposition Conservative party, he had to say he would get numbers down to firm up votes.
Again fair enough. The fact that immigration is at its highest ever and Cameron has been PM over five years renders discussion as to why meaningless. He'll be an ex pm in three years or so and will never have made good on the pledge. He wins!
The answer is obvious. If he really wanted to cut it down, if there was some weird phenomenon that meant if he didn't we'd all die, he'd get them down. It's not impossible, it's just unimportant
Not watched the video but I agree. Personally I don't think it's important, I opposed the target in the first place (it's the main thing I disagree with Cameron on). But I don't think it's ever been the number one aim of the government. The number one aim of the government has been the economy and there is a but of a push me, pull you effect here.
Given the disastrous state of Europe the better we do economically the more net migration we will have. The worse we do the less we will have. The failure to hit one target has been caused by doing better than expected (and the continent doing worse than expected) on the other.
And I don't think to be frank the government would change that if they could. If you could give a Matrix style choice of if you take the white pill you continue to have a good economy but high migration, or the black pill and you'll have a terrible economy and low migration then there is no doubt in my eyes that even if Cameron was never disingenuous over migration he'd take the white one every time.
The Windors? Before them the Hanoverians? You wouldn't Charles was a shining example, would you?
Edward III was a much better king than his Dad (unless you were French of course). Henry IV was a bit of a shit but his boy was very good (again unless you were French). Charles II was a better in the job that Charles I (but then so would Mad Jock McMad winner of Mr. Madman competition 1640 had he been given the chance). Winston Churchill was a rather more successful politician than his father (even if you were French - which makes a change).
One can always find examples of political dynasties when the son does better than the father or the reverse if you want.
Focus people, focus. I'm talking about political dynasties not Royal dynasties.
Has our Roger changed sides? twitter.com/rog_ukip/status/672481633967218688
From his posts over the last few weeks, it's pretty much impossible to tell where Roger is now. It's like he's having a mental breakdown in real time on the forum.
Seemed pretty sane in the Beeston PB meet up in May.
On the other hand: you have to question the sanity of anyone going to a political betting meet in Beeston! What next? A meeting on the history of French lingerie during the realm of Louis XIV held in Runcorn?
What's wrong with Beeston? Not a middle miles from my abode. We do bet in the East Midlands.
I live in Beeston.....nice enough area but not great and the tram is very useful.
Has our Roger changed sides? twitter.com/rog_ukip/status/672481633967218688
From his posts over the last few weeks, it's pretty much impossible to tell where Roger is now. It's like he's having a mental breakdown in real time on the forum.
Seemed pretty sane in the Beeston PB meet up in May.
On the other hand: you have to question the sanity of anyone going to a political betting meet in Beeston! What next? A meeting on the history of French lingerie during the realm of Louis XIV held in Runcorn?
A very marginal seat, and a very decent pint. A very interesting night in the dying days of the coalition. It helped me with my final stakes...
No longer a "very" marginal seat obviously. I predict a 8,000 majority if Labour continue down their current path.
The beer will still be good however.
Very true. Labour needs to have a plan to win back Broxtowe and Loughborough if they ever want to form a government again.
@PolhomeEditor: BREAKING: Alex Salmond refuses to apologise for saying Tony Benn would be "birling in his grave" at his son Hilary's Syria speech.
Why should he apologise.
He's spot on the money. Tony Benn would be devastated to see his son vote to send British troops into harms way without any benefit from that action and the likely killing of plenty more civilians.
Hilary is a disgrace to his family name. He should be the first name on the Labour cull. They can't continue with a party filled with Red Tories. They know where that will take them, after all, Scotland will be fresh in their minds.
On the other hand, here's the impartial judgement of someone writing more than a year ago:
"One of the attractive aspects of Tony Benn’s intriguing, complex character was that he never demanded of his own family that they should be what used to be called Bennites. His son Hilary has consistently defended the Iraq war that Dad so furiously opposed. The old man was thrilled when his 18 year old granddaughter, Emily, was adopted as a Labour candidate, notwithstanding that she was arguably more Blairite than her Uncle Hilary."
Who to believe, Alex Salmond or someone who knew him personally for many years?
It is perfectly consistent for someone to offer their offspring completely free reign in their life choices but still be disappointed at some of the choices they might make. There is a considerable difference between telling and hoping.
Either Benn's entire political life was one of hypocrisy and ideas he did not believe in or he would be disappointed that. while trying to persuade the public in general, he failed to even persuade his own son.
Long walk from '[Tony Benn] would be disappointed' to 'Hilary is a disgrace to his family name', but entirely expected.
I think he'd be quite pleased that his son was his own man.
Benn was alive when his son voted for the Iraq War and did not disown him
Better decision yesterday than that on Iraq. Which I still regard as horrendously wrong.
Has our Roger changed sides? twitter.com/rog_ukip/status/672481633967218688
From his posts over the last few weeks, it's pretty much impossible to tell where Roger is now. It's like he's having a mental breakdown in real time on the forum.
Seemed pretty sane in the Beeston PB meet up in May.
On the other hand: you have to question the sanity of anyone going to a political betting meet in Beeston! What next? A meeting on the history of French lingerie during the realm of Louis XIV held in Runcorn?
What's wrong with Beeston? Not a middle miles from my abode. We do bet in the East Midlands.
Not far away from where some of my family live either, and some friends.
But Beeston ? Mind you, at least they have a Birds Bakery, so you could have had some of the country's best pork pies as you talked.
(BTW, it was meant to be a joke).
Oi! Not a patch on Ye Olde Pork Pie Shoppe in Melton Mowbray I am sure, and don't suggest that they have decent cheese either!
Birds pork pies make products from Ye Olde Pork Pie Shoppe in Melton Mowbray seem like Tesco value pork pies.
Has our Roger changed sides? twitter.com/rog_ukip/status/672481633967218688
From his posts over the last few weeks, it's pretty much impossible to tell where Roger is now. It's like he's having a mental breakdown in real time on the forum.
Seemed pretty sane in the Beeston PB meet up in May.
On the other hand: you have to question the sanity of anyone going to a political betting meet in Beeston! What next? A meeting on the history of French lingerie during the realm of Louis XIV held in Runcorn?
A very marginal seat, and a very decent pint. A very interesting night in the dying days of the coalition. It helped me with my final stakes...
No longer a "very" marginal seat obviously. I predict a 8,000 majority if Labour continue down their current path.
The beer will still be good however.
Very true. Labour needs to have a plan to win back Broxtowe and Loughborough if they ever want to form a government again.
Absolutely. For betting purposes, it is when one focuses on these kinds of 'middle england' marginals and the everyday concerns of the people who live there, that you truly realise the gigantic gulf between Corbyn and winning power. But hey it's a democracy and maybe it is good we will have such a sharp choice in 2020.
The Windors? Before them the Hanoverians? You wouldn't Charles was a shining example, would you?
Edward III was a much better king than his Dad (unless you were French of course). Henry IV was a bit of a shit but his boy was very good (again unless you were French). Charles II was a better in the job that Charles I (but then so would Mad Jock McMad winner of Mr. Madman competition 1640 had he been given the chance). Winston Churchill was a rather more successful politician than his father (even if you were French - which makes a change).
One can always find examples of political dynasties when the son does better than the father or the reverse if you want.
Focus people, focus. I'm talking about political dynasties not Royal dynasties.
And the difference is?
One is elected in the field of politics by the public, the other is by Royal inheritance on the throne to be Monarch.
The Windors? Before them the Hanoverians? You wouldn't Charles was a shining example, would you?
Edward III was a much better king than his Dad (unless you were French of course). Henry IV was a bit of a shit but his boy was very good (again unless you were French). Charles II was a better in the job that Charles I (but then so would Mad Jock McMad winner of Mr. Madman competition 1640 had he been given the chance). Winston Churchill was a rather more successful politician than his father (even if you were French - which makes a change).
One can always find examples of political dynasties when the son does better than the father or the reverse if you want.
Hmmm. Always exceptions, I agree. Agree about Charles II on all counts. Could argue that George VI did a better job as the father of the next Monarch than his father.
I am still trying to work that out, Mr. C. George IV was succeeded by his brother (who was only three years his junior) so he didn't father the next monarch. So by not producing an heir to the throne he did better than his father who produced him. I have a got that right?
@PolhomeEditor: BREAKING: Alex Salmond refuses to apologise for saying Tony Benn would be "birling in his grave" at his son Hilary's Syria speech.
Why should he apologise.
He's spot on the money. Tony Benn would be devastated to see his son vote to send British troops into harms way without any benefit from that action and the likely killing of plenty more civilians.
Hilary is a disgrace to his family name. He should be the first name on the Labour cull. They can't continue with a party filled with Red Tories. They know where that will take them, after all, Scotland will be fresh in their minds.
On the other hand, here's the impartial judgement of someone writing more than a year ago:
"One of the attractive aspects of Tony Benn’s intriguing, complex character was that he never demanded of his own family that they should be what used to be called Bennites. His son Hilary has consistently defended the Iraq war that Dad so furiously opposed. The old man was thrilled when his 18 year old granddaughter, Emily, was adopted as a Labour candidate, notwithstanding that she was arguably more Blairite than her Uncle Hilary."
Who to believe, Alex Salmond or someone who knew him personally for many years?
It is perfectly consistent for someone to offer their offspring completely free reign in their life choices but still be disappointed at some of the choices they might make. There is a considerable difference between telling and hoping.
Either Benn's entire political life was one of hypocrisy and ideas he did not believe in or he would be disappointed that. while trying to persuade the public in general, he failed to even persuade his own son.
Long walk from '[Tony Benn] would be disappointed' to 'Hilary is a disgrace to his family name', but entirely expected.
I think he'd be quite pleased that his son was his own man.
Benn was alive when his son voted for the Iraq War and did not disown him
I am a bit surprised that people from the Corbyn wing have not thrown that at Benn rather more forcefully in the context of everything else that has been happening. How did he justify supporting a war of British and American aggression given the lack of UN support? Many would argue that the 2003 attack rather mirrored the Fascist dictators he spent time condemning in his speech. Perhaps this is yet to come.
@PolhomeEditor: BREAKING: Alex Salmond refuses to apologise for saying Tony Benn would be "birling in his grave" at his son Hilary's Syria speech.
Why should he apologise.
He's spot on the money. Tony Benn would be devastated to see his son vote to send British troops into harms way without any benefit from that action and the likely killing of plenty more civilians.
Hilary is a disgrace to his family name. He should be the first name on the Labour cull. They can't continue with a party filled with Red Tories. They know where that will take them, after all, Scotland will be fresh in their minds.
On the other hand, here's the impartial judgement of someone writing more than a year ago:
"One of the attractive aspects of Tony Benn’s intriguing, complex character was that he never demanded of his own family that they should be what used to be called Bennites. His son Hilary has consistently defended the Iraq war that Dad so furiously opposed. The old man was thrilled when his 18 year old granddaughter, Emily, was adopted as a Labour candidate, notwithstanding that she was arguably more Blairite than her Uncle Hilary."
Who to believe, Alex Salmond or someone who knew him personally for many years?
It is perfectly consistent for someone to offer their offspring completely free reign in their life choices but still be disappointed at some of the choices they might make. There is a considerable difference between telling and hoping.
Either Benn's entire political life was one of hypocrisy and ideas he did not believe in or he would be disappointed that. while trying to persuade the public in general, he failed to even persuade his own son.
Long walk from '[Tony Benn] would be disappointed' to 'Hilary is a disgrace to his family name', but entirely expected.
I think he'd be quite pleased that his son was his own man.
Benn was alive when his son voted for the Iraq War and did not disown him
Better decision yesterday than than on Iraq. Which I still regard as horrendously wrong.
I think it a bit early to say really. The LDs under Kennedy were subject to the same hostility for standing up against the Iraq war. A few years later they were untainted.
Indeed Corbynite Labour has its best prospects if the war goes very badly and public opinion swings heavily against the war.
Time will tell, though of course we can never know the alternative outcome.
I think just the name "Benn" would attract many more voters to Labour, regardless of his actual views.
Is this sarcasm? Because I honestly thought the opposite, that people who might otherwise like Hilary Benn (he does have that indefinable air of a potential PM, imo) will be put off just by his name, in the way that Jeb Bush has suffered.
Has our Roger changed sides? twitter.com/rog_ukip/status/672481633967218688
From his posts over the last few weeks, it's pretty much impossible to tell where Roger is now. It's like he's having a mental breakdown in real time on the forum.
Seemed pretty sane in the Beeston PB meet up in May.
On the other hand: you have to question the sanity of anyone going to a political betting meet in Beeston! What next? A meeting on the history of French lingerie during the realm of Louis XIV held in Runcorn?
What's wrong with Beeston? Not a middle miles from my abode. We do bet in the East Midlands.
Not far away from where some of my family live either, and some friends.
But Beeston ? Mind you, at least they have a Birds Bakery, so you could have had some of the country's best pork pies as you talked.
(BTW, it was meant to be a joke).
Oi! Not a patch on Ye Olde Pork Pie Shoppe in Melton Mowbray I am sure, and don't suggest that they have decent cheese either!
Birds pork pies make products from Ye Olde Pork Pie Shoppe in Melton Mowbray seem like Tesco value pork pies.
Seriously, they're really good.
I will concede that the Castle Rock Brewery beats Everards any day.
I think just the name "Benn" would attract many more voters to Labour, regardless of his actual views.
That's the pity of it. I passionately disagree with almost all (aside from his eurorealism) of what his father stood for, but at least he stood for something. Being a Blairite was never an indication of 'views', it was about expediency and preferment. It was about being an 'insider'.
Hilary Benn is still being an insider. All this stuff about him being 'brave' to face the brickbats of a few twitter twats is specious nonsense. On the other side there is the media (who are now apparently playing him on a loop), the 'international community', the political class, and ultimately the USA - forces exemplified by a Prime Minister likening those who opposed the bombing to terrorist sympathisers. These are the sources of patronage and favour, not some £3 Labour members.
Has our Roger changed sides? twitter.com/rog_ukip/status/672481633967218688
From his posts over the last few weeks, it's pretty much impossible to tell where Roger is now. It's like he's having a mental breakdown in real time on the forum.
Seemed pretty sane in the Beeston PB meet up in May.
On the other hand: you have to question the sanity of anyone going to a political betting meet in Beeston! What next? A meeting on the history of French lingerie during the realm of Louis XIV held in Runcorn?
What's wrong with Beeston? Not a middle miles from my abode. We do bet in the East Midlands.
I was wondering if I'd missed a meet near Elland Rd.!
I think just the name "Benn" would attract many more voters to Labour, regardless of his actual views.
Is this sarcasm? Because I honestly thought the opposite, that people who might otherwise like Hilary Benn (he does have that indefinable air of a potential PM, imo) will be put off just by his name, in the way that Jeb Bush has suffered.
No not at all
My parents are pretty much old school Labour voters, not that politically aware, they didn't know there was a by election tonight for instance, but I reckon they'd both vote Labour again if Tony Benn's son was running the show
They might be put off by the name Hilary on a bloke though!
I think just the name "Benn" would attract many more voters to Labour, regardless of his actual views.
That's the pity of it. I passionately disagree with almost all (aside from his eurorealism) of what his father stood for, but at least he stood for something. Being a Blairite was never an indication of 'views', it was about expediency and preferment. It was about being an 'insider'.
Hilary Benn is still being an insider. All this stuff about him being 'brave' to face the brickbats of a few twitter twats is specious nonsense. On the other side there is the media (who are now apparently playing him on a loop), the 'international community', the political class, and ultimately the USA - forces exemplified by a Prime Minister likening those who opposed the bombing to terrorist sympathisers. These are the sources of patronage and favour, not some £3 Labour members.
Depends which media, certainly not elements of the Guardian, certainly not the leftwing establishment and Obama has once again done virtually nothing to lead on Syria, it is Hollande and Cameron and Putin making the running
The hard left have realised that they only have power in between elections, because most voters do not care about politics during that time which leaves them a clear run at all the town hall events and so on. Once the GE bandwagon gets up and running they are drowned out by normal voters and become marginalised once more. This is their time.
I think just the name "Benn" would attract many more voters to Labour, regardless of his actual views.
Is this sarcasm? Because I honestly thought the opposite, that people who might otherwise like Hilary Benn (he does have that indefinable air of a potential PM, imo) will be put off just by his name, in the way that Jeb Bush has suffered.
@PolhomeEditor: BREAKING: Alex Salmond refuses to apologise for saying Tony Benn would be "birling in his grave" at his son Hilary's Syria speech.
Why should he apologise.
He's spot on the money. Tony Benn would be devastated to see his son vote to send British troops into harms way without any benefit from that action and the likely killing of plenty more civilians.
Hilary is a disgrace to his family name. He should be the first name on the Labour cull. They can't continue with a party filled with Red Tories. They know where that will take them, after all, Scotland will be fresh in their minds.
On the other hand, here's the impartial judgement of someone writing more than a year ago:
"One of the attractive aspects of Tony Benn’s intriguing, complex character was that he never demanded of his own family that they should be what used to be called Bennites. His son Hilary has consistently defended the Iraq war that Dad so furiously opposed. The old man was thrilled when his 18 year old granddaughter, Emily, was adopted as a Labour candidate, notwithstanding that she was arguably more Blairite than her Uncle Hilary."
Who to believe, Alex Salmond or someone who knew him personally for many years?
It is perfectly consistent for someone to offer their offspring completely free reign in their life choices but still be disappointed at some of the choices they might make. There is a considerable difference between telling and hoping.
Either Benn's entire political life was one of hypocrisy and ideas he did not believe in or he would be disappointed that. while trying to persuade the public in general, he failed to even persuade his own son.
Long walk from '[Tony Benn] would be disappointed' to 'Hilary is a disgrace to his family name', but entirely expected.
I think he'd be quite pleased that his son was his own man.
Benn was alive when his son voted for the Iraq War and did not disown him
Better decision yesterday than that on Iraq. Which I still regard as horrendously wrong.
Indeed but point is his father's family loyalties were unaffected
Has our Roger changed sides? twitter.com/rog_ukip/status/672481633967218688
From his posts over the last few weeks, it's pretty much impossible to tell where Roger is now. It's like he's having a mental breakdown in real time on the forum.
Seemed pretty sane in the Beeston PB meet up in May.
On the other hand: you have to question the sanity of anyone going to a political betting meet in Beeston! What next? A meeting on the history of French lingerie during the realm of Louis XIV held in Runcorn?
What's wrong with Beeston? Not a middle miles from my abode. We do bet in the East Midlands.
Not far away from where some of my family live either, and some friends.
But Beeston ? Mind you, at least they have a Birds Bakery, so you could have had some of the country's best pork pies as you talked.
(BTW, it was meant to be a joke).
Oi! Not a patch on Ye Olde Pork Pie Shoppe in Melton Mowbray I am sure, and don't suggest that they have decent cheese either!
Birds pork pies make products from Ye Olde Pork Pie Shoppe in Melton Mowbray seem like Tesco value pork pies.
Seriously, they're really good.
I will concede that the Castle Rock Brewery beats Everards any day.
That's your mistake: I'm not bigging up Nottinghamshire, but Derbyshire. Bird's expansion from their home county of Derbyshire into Nottinghamshire has had the effect of civilising Nottingham.
I think there's also some outlets in Leicestershire as well. Hopefully they'll have the same effect on the tribes there.
18:18 - Nigel Farage isn't too confident about the postal votes, Laura Hughes reports.
Speaking in UKIP's Royton headquarters, Nigel Farage told journalists: "If this was taking place today in one of dozens of other constituencies in the north of England we would have won it comfortably.
"The reason it's close and the reason I can't be confident about the postal votes is because in this constituency there is a particular block vote that is a very difficult demographic for UKIP."
Asked on where he he was referring to Asians voters as this "block vote", he said: "I'm going to say nothing because otherwise you'll all scream at me."
What is he wrong about? (other than assuming they'd have won comfortably in any other northern constituency)
Maybe just maybe if he was a tad less xenophobic that demographic wouldn't be so difficult for him.
Do you think Nigel xenophobic and if so why?
Yes I do and because of some of his remarks. I think when he's on top of his game he puts a veneer on it but I think he is. I think his party much more so. He is a more Middle Class and much more polished xenophobe than others so I wouldn't compare him to many other politicians. Puts the polite face on it.
So you provide no evidence why you just say he is. Of the ukip MEPs perhaps you can list the xenophobes too, seeing as the party is more xenophobic still.
The Windors? Before them the Hanoverians? You wouldn't Charles was a shining example, would you?
Edward III was a much better king than his Dad (unless you were French of course). Henry IV was a bit of a shit but his boy was very good (again unless you were French). Charles II was a better in the job that Charles I (but then so would Mad Jock McMad winner of Mr. Madman competition 1640 had he been given the chance). Winston Churchill was a rather more successful politician than his father (even if you were French - which makes a change).
One can always find examples of political dynasties when the son does better than the father or the reverse if you want.
Focus people, focus. I'm talking about political dynasties not Royal dynasties.
And the difference is?
One is elected in the field of politics by the public, the other is by Royal inheritance on the throne to be Monarch.
Ok to play by your rules; look at the Churchill and Drax dynasties - you will see that your theory that the successor generation is always being worse than the progenitor generation does not hold.
@PolhomeEditor: BREAKING: Alex Salmond refuses to apologise for saying Tony Benn would be "birling in his grave" at his son Hilary's Syria speech.
Why should he apologise.
He's spot on the money. Tony Benn would be devastated to see his son vote to send British troops into harms way without any benefit from that action and the likely killing of plenty more civilians.
Hilary is a disgrace to his family name. He should be the first name on the Labour cull. They can't continue with a party filled with Red Tories. They know where that will take them, after all, Scotland will be fresh in their minds.
On the other hand, here's the impartial judgement of someone writing more than a year ago:
"One of the attractive aspects of Tony Benn’s intriguing, complex character was that he never demanded of his own family that they should be what used to be called Bennites. His son Hilary has consistently defended the Iraq war that Dad so furiously opposed. The old man was thrilled when his 18 year old granddaughter, Emily, was adopted as a Labour candidate, notwithstanding that she was arguably more Blairite than her Uncle Hilary."
Who to believe, Alex Salmond or someone who knew him personally for many years?
It is perfectly consistent for someone to offer their offspring completely free reign in their life choices but still be disappointed at some of the choices they might make. There is a considerable difference between telling and hoping.
Either Benn's entire political life was one of hypocrisy and ideas he did not believe in or he would be disappointed that. while trying to persuade the public in general, he failed to even persuade his own son.
Long walk from '[Tony Benn] would be disappointed' to 'Hilary is a disgrace to his family name', but entirely expected.
There is a reason why I'm against political dynasties in politics, the offsprings are always worse, and that's a global rule (George Bush-George W.Bush- Jeb Bush). The Benn and Kinnock families are no exception.
It's not a global rule, although it may be a trend (always difficult to live up to a famous parent). However, it possibly distorted in that we notice the children of the famous far more than we notice their parents.
I think it a bit early to say really. The LDs under Kennedy were subject to the same hostility for standing up against the Iraq war. A few years later they were untainted.
Indeed Corbynite Labour has its best prospects if the war goes very badly and public opinion swings heavily against the war.
Time will tell, though of course we can never know the alternative outcome.
I'm not sure -- I heard a couple of old ladies on the bus earlier simultaneously express the views that Corbyn was an idiot, and that airstrikes on Syria were bloody ridiculous (in fact, they said "the Queen should stand up to Cameron and just refuse to send our troops in", a statement which would probably give Corbyn palpitations!).
I think the reasons for opposing the war will matter to Joe Public - if it's opposed on the grounds that Western governments don't know their arse from their elbow about the Middle East, and that we're better off leaving it to people who do know better, then I think there would be quite a ready audience. But Corbyn's opposition is sadly probably going to strike people more as wishy-washy pacifism as a principle.
Has our Roger changed sides? twitter.com/rog_ukip/status/672481633967218688
From his posts over the last few weeks, it's pretty much impossible to tell where Roger is now. It's like he's having a mental breakdown in real time on the forum.
Seemed pretty sane in the Beeston PB meet up in May.
On the other hand: you have to question the sanity of anyone going to a political betting meet in Beeston! What next? A meeting on the history of French lingerie during the realm of Louis XIV held in Runcorn?
What's wrong with Beeston? Not a middle miles from my abode. We do bet in the East Midlands.
Not far away from where some of my family live either, and some friends.
But Beeston ? Mind you, at least they have a Birds Bakery, so you could have had some of the country's best pork pies as you talked.
(BTW, it was meant to be a joke).
Oi! Not a patch on Ye Olde Pork Pie Shoppe in Melton Mowbray I am sure, and don't suggest that they have decent cheese either!
Birds pork pies make products from Ye Olde Pork Pie Shoppe in Melton Mowbray seem like Tesco value pork pies.
Seriously, they're really good.
I will concede that the Castle Rock Brewery beats Everards any day.
That's your mistake: I'm not bigging up Nottinghamshire, but Derbyshire. Bird's expansion from their home county of Derbyshire into Nottinghamshire has had the effect of civilising Nottingham.
I think there's also some outlets in Leicestershire as well. Hopefully they'll have the same effect on the tribes there.
I shall look out for one for my Christmas larder, but if it is not up to scratch then there will be consequences!
(I see that there is one in Anstey. Perilously close to Walkers headquarters)
The Windors? Before them the Hanoverians? You wouldn't Charles was a shining example, would you?
Edward III was a much better king than his Dad (unless you were French of course). Henry IV was a bit of a shit but his boy was very good (again unless you were French). Charles II was a better in the job that Charles I (but then so would Mad Jock McMad winner of Mr. Madman competition 1640 had he been given the chance). Winston Churchill was a rather more successful politician than his father (even if you were French - which makes a change).
One can always find examples of political dynasties when the son does better than the father or the reverse if you want.
Hmmm. Always exceptions, I agree. Agree about Charles II on all counts. Could argue that George VI did a better job as the father of the next Monarch than his father.
I am still trying to work that out, Mr. C. George IV was succeeded by his brother (who was only three years his junior) so he didn't father the next monarch. So by not producing an heir to the throne he did better than his father who produced him. I have a got that right?
Er, No. George VI was the son of George V, who is alleged to have said that he was afraid of his father and he was going to make damn sure his sons were afraid of him. Which resulted in Edward's behaviour and George VI's stammer. George VI of course only had daughters and, one way and another seems to have instilled a sense of duty into them, although it went awry in the case of his younger daiughter.
@PolhomeEditor: BREAKING: Alex Salmond refuses to apologise for saying Tony Benn would be "birling in his grave" at his son Hilary's Syria speech.
Why should he apologise.
He's spot on the money. Tony Benn would be devastated to see his son vote to send British troops into harms way without any benefit from that action and the likely killing of plenty more civilians.
Hilary is a disgrace to his family name. He should be the first name on the Labour cull. They can't continue with a party filled with Red Tories. They know where that will take them, after all, Scotland will be fresh in their minds.
On the other hand, here's the impartial judgement of someone writing more than a year ago:
Who to believe, Alex Salmond or someone who knew him personally for many years?
It is perfectly consistent for someone to offer their offspring completely free reign in their life choices but still be disappointed at some of the choices they might make. There is a considerable difference between telling and hoping.
Either Benn's entire political life was one of hypocrisy and ideas he did not believe in or he would be disappointed that. while trying to persuade the public in general, he failed to even persuade his own son.
Long walk from '[Tony Benn] would be disappointed' to 'Hilary is a disgrace to his family name', but entirely expected.
I think he'd be quite pleased that his son was his own man.
Benn was alive when his son voted for the Iraq War and did not disown him
I am a bit surprised that people from the Corbyn wing have not thrown that at Benn rather more forcefully in the context of everything else that has been happening. How did he justify supporting a war of British and American aggression given the lack of UN support? Many would argue that the 2003 attack rather mirrored the Fascist dictators he spent time condemning in his speech. Perhaps this is yet to come.
Indeed, in retrospect that was the wrong call but it was Cabinet Collective Responsibility at the time which was why Cook and Short resigned
@PolhomeEditor: BREAKING: Alex Salmond refuses to apologise for saying Tony Benn would be "birling in his grave" at his son Hilary's Syria speech.
Why should he apologise.
He's spot on the money. Tony Benn would be devastated to see his son vote to send British troops into harms way without any benefit from that action and the likely killing of plenty more civilians.
Hilary is a disgrace to his family name. He should be the first name on the Labour cull. They can't continue with a party filled with Red Tories. They know where that will take them, after all, Scotland will be fresh in their minds.
On the other hand, here's the impartial judgement of someone writing more than a year ago:
Who to believe, Alex Salmond or someone who knew him personally for many years?
It is perfectly consistent for someone to offer their offspring completely free reign in their life choices but still be disappointed at some of the choices they might make. There is a considerable difference between telling and hoping.
Either Benn's entire political life was one of hypocrisy and ideas he did not believe in or he would be disappointed that. while trying to persuade the public in general, he failed to even persuade his own son.
Long walk from '[Tony Benn] would be disappointed' to 'Hilary is a disgrace to his family name', but entirely expected.
I think he'd be quite pleased that his son was his own man.
Benn was alive when his son voted for the Iraq War and did not disown him
I am a bit surprised that people from the Corbyn wing have not thrown that at Benn rather more forcefully in the context of everything else that has been happening. How did he justify supporting a war of British and American aggression given the lack of UN support? Many would argue that the 2003 attack rather mirrored the Fascist dictators he spent time condemning in his speech. Perhaps this is yet to come.
Indeed, in retrospect that was the wrong call but it was Cabinet Collective Responsibility at the time which was why Cook and Short resigned
The Windors? Before them the Hanoverians? You wouldn't Charles was a shining example, would you?
Edward III was a much better king than his Dad (unless you were French of course). Henry IV was a bit of a shit but his boy was very good (again unless you were French). Charles II was a better in the job that Charles I (but then so would Mad Jock McMad winner of Mr. Madman competition 1640 had he been given the chance). Winston Churchill was a rather more successful politician than his father (even if you were French - which makes a change).
One can always find examples of political dynasties when the son does better than the father or the reverse if you want.
Hmmm. Always exceptions, I agree. Agree about Charles II on all counts. Could argue that George VI did a better job as the father of the next Monarch than his father.
I am still trying to work that out, Mr. C. George IV was succeeded by his brother (who was only three years his junior) so he didn't father the next monarch. So by not producing an heir to the throne he did better than his father who produced him. I have a got that right?
Er, No. George VI was the son of George V, who is alleged to have said that he was afraid of his father and he was going to make damn sure his sons were afraid of him. Which resulted in Edward's behaviour and George VI's stammer. George VI of course only had daughters and, one way and another seems to have instilled a sense of duty into them, although it went awry in the case of his younger daiughter.
I do apologise, Mr. Cole. I read George IV not George VI in your original post. Sorry about that.
I quite take your point now and agree that George V was a bit of an odd cove (he last words were reputed to have been "Bugger Bognor") and who suffered under the lash of Queen Victoria's dysfunctional family (I am sure the old girl was off her head or, maybe, just a plain selfish old bitch).
I also think it a tragedy that George VI died so young.
What matters though is how those minorities vote not their favourability ratings.
Romney might have had a -11 favourables with Latinos, but in the end only 1 in 4 voted for him, he lost them by 44 points. And Trump regularly gets more votes than Rubio with Latinos in the opinion polls, despite the huge gap.
It simply illustrates that having high favourables in a voting group that will never vote for you anyway is a waste of time.
@PolhomeEditor: BREAKING: Alex Salmond refuses to apologise for saying Tony Benn would be "birling in his grave" at his son Hilary's Syria speech.
(snipped )
On the other hand, here's the impartial judgement of someone writing more than a year ago:
(snipped)
Who to believe, Alex Salmond or someone who knew him personally for many years?
It is perfectly consistent for someone to offer their offspring completely free reign in their life choices but still be disappointed at some of the choices they might make. There is a considerable difference between telling and hoping.
Either Benn's entire political life was one of hypocrisy and ideas he did not believe in or he would be disappointed that. while trying to persuade the public in general, he failed to even persuade his own son.
Long walk from '[Tony Benn] would be disappointed' to 'Hilary is a disgrace to his family name', but entirely expected.
I think he'd be quite pleased that his son was his own man.
Benn was alive when his son voted for the Iraq War and did not disown him
Better decision yesterday than than on Iraq. Which I still regard as horrendously wrong.
I think it a bit early to say really. The LDs under Kennedy were subject to the same hostility for standing up against the Iraq war. A few years later they were untainted.
Indeed Corbynite Labour has its best prospects if the war goes very badly and public opinion swings heavily against the war.
Time will tell, though of course we can never know the alternative outcome.
Seems to me there's a strong likelihood that if the war goes badly, public opinion will harden in favour of waging it.
This isn't a European-style war based on our sort of values. This is medieval religious fundamentalists wanting to conquer all other civilisations with their own, and expecting to be almost wiped out themselves.
'Going badly' from our point of view would probably mean a medieval civilisation spreading outwards and engulfing Europe. Once that pattern became clear I reckon public opinion would be in favour of throwing everything at keeping it at bay.
@PolhomeEditor: BREAKING: Alex Salmond refuses to apologise for saying Tony Benn would be "birling in his grave" at his son Hilary's Syria speech.
Why should he apologise.
He's spot on the money. Tony Benn would be devastated to see his son vote to send British troops into harms way without any benefit from that action and the likely killing of plenty more civilians.
Hilary is a disgrace to his family name. He should be the first name on the Labour cull. They can't continue with a party filled with Red Tories. They know where that will take them, after all, Scotland will be fresh in their minds.
On the other hand, here's the impartial judgement of someone writing more than a year ago:
Who to believe, Alex Salmond or someone who knew him personally for many years?
It is perfectly consistent for someone to offer their offspring completely free reign in their life choices but still be disappointed at some of the choices they might make. There is a considerable difference between telling and hoping.
Either Benn's entire political life was one of hypocrisy and ideas he did not believe in or he would be disappointed that. while trying to persuade the public in general, he failed to even persuade his own son.
Long walk from '[Tony Benn] would be disappointed' to 'Hilary is a disgrace to his family name', but entirely expected.
I think he'd be quite pleased that his son was his own man.
Benn was alive when his son voted for the Iraq War and did not disown him
I am a bit surprised that people from the Corbyn wing have not thrown that at Benn rather more forcefully in the context of everything else that has been happening. How did he justify supporting a war of British and American aggression given the lack of UN support? Many would argue that the 2003 attack rather mirrored the Fascist dictators he spent time condemning in his speech. Perhaps this is yet to come.
Indeed, in retrospect that was the wrong call but it was Cabinet Collective Responsibility at the time which was why Cook and Short resigned
Ah, the days of Labour collective responsibility!
We've lost a few good people through untimely death. If Iain Macleod, Robin Cook and perhaps David Penhaligon had survived maybe British politics would be in a better state.
Daniel Hewitt @DanielHewittITV 13m13 minutes ago The heavens have opened In Oldham, a downpour of biblical proportions. Turnout is going to be very, very low.
Let me guess, tax avoidance purposes? It is! Shock, multi-billionaire founding his own charity foundation and moving his entire fortune to it to avoid taxes.
I think it a bit early to say really. The LDs under Kennedy were subject to the same hostility for standing up against the Iraq war. A few years later they were untainted.
Indeed Corbynite Labour has its best prospects if the war goes very badly and public opinion swings heavily against the war.
Time will tell, though of course we can never know the alternative outcome.
I'm not sure -- I heard a couple of old ladies on the bus earlier simultaneously express the views that Corbyn was an idiot, and that airstrikes on Syria were bloody ridiculous (in fact, they said "the Queen should stand up to Cameron and just refuse to send our troops in", a statement which would probably give Corbyn palpitations!).
I think the reasons for opposing the war will matter to Joe Public - if it's opposed on the grounds that Western governments don't know their arse from their elbow about the Middle East, and that we're better off leaving it to people who do know better, then I think there would be quite a ready audience. But Corbyn's opposition is sadly probably going to strike people more as wishy-washy pacifism as a principle.
This confirms my suspicions - the terrorist sympathiser line isn't going to get an apology because it works with voters.
Even if it wasn't intentional, which I don't think it was, leaving the dead cat on the table works when you have someone so weak and withering as Corbo as leader of the opposition.
Yet again, Labour politics is drowned out by noise. This is what Blair and Mandy did so well 97-08....
If rain puts people off voting, as is accepted wisdom, people had best hope there isn't heavy rain during the PCC elections next year. Although suppose only the very dedicated did in any case, but if it impacts it further it might undermine the role. Which I would not mind in the least, but even so.
@PolhomeEditor: BREAKING: Alex Salmond refuses to apologise for saying Tony Benn would be "birling in his grave" at his son Hilary's Syria speech.
Why should he apologise.
He's spot on the money. Tony Benn would be devastated to see his son vote to send British troops into harms way without any benefit from that action and the likely killing of plenty more civilians.
Hilary is a disgrace to his family name. He should be the first name on the Labour cull. They can't continue with a party filled with Red Tories. They know where that will take them, after all, Scotland will be fresh in their minds.
On the other hand, here's the impartial judgement of someone writing more than a year ago:
Who to believe, Alex Salmond or someone who knew him personally for many years?
It is perfectly consistent for someone to offer their offspring completely free reign in their life choices but still be disappointed at some of the choices they might make. There is a considerable difference between telling and hoping.
Either Benn's entire political life was one of hypocrisy and ideas he did not believe in or he would be disappointed that. while trying to persuade the public in general, he failed to even persuade his own son.
Long walk from '[Tony Benn] would be disappointed' to 'Hilary is a disgrace to his family name', but entirely expected.
I think he'd be quite pleased that his son was his own man.
Benn was alive when his son voted for the Iraq War and did not disown him
I am a bit surprised that people from the Corbyn wing have not thrown that at Benn rather more forcefully in the context of everything else that has been happening. How did he justify supporting a war of British and American aggression given the lack of UN support? Many would argue that the 2003 attack rather mirrored the Fascist dictators he spent time condemning in his speech. Perhaps this is yet to come.
Indeed, in retrospect that was the wrong call but it was Cabinet Collective Responsibility at the time which was why Cook and Short resigned
Clare Short only resigned later - had she done so at the same time as Cook it is likely that Blair would have been much more damaged at the time - and the Labour rebellion even greater.
I think it a bit early to say really. The LDs under Kennedy were subject to the same hostility for standing up against the Iraq war. A few years later they were untainted.
Indeed Corbynite Labour has its best prospects if the war goes very badly and public opinion swings heavily against the war.
Time will tell, though of course we can never know the alternative outcome.
I'm not sure -- I heard a couple of old ladies on the bus earlier simultaneously express the views that Corbyn was an idiot, and that airstrikes on Syria were bloody ridiculous (in fact, they said "the Queen should stand up to Cameron and just refuse to send our troops in", a statement which would probably give Corbyn palpitations!).
I think the reasons for opposing the war will matter to Joe Public - if it's opposed on the grounds that Western governments don't know their arse from their elbow about the Middle East, and that we're better off leaving it to people who do know better, then I think there would be quite a ready audience. But Corbyn's opposition is sadly probably going to strike people more as wishy-washy pacifism as a principle.
This confirms my suspicions - the terrorist sympathiser line isn't going to get an apology because it works with voters.
Even if it wasn't intentional, which I don't think it was, leaving the dead cat on the table works when you have someone so weak and withering as Corbo as leader of the opposition.
Yet again, Labour politics is drowned out by noise. This is what Blair and Mandy did so well 97-08....
The Terrorist Sympathiser line is straight out of the Crosby playbook.
I am close-ish to Oldham, and the weather has actually improved a lot in the last half hour or so round here. There was a really heavy downpour for a while after 7.
Let me guess, tax avoidance purposes? It is! Shock, multi-billionaire founding his own charity foundation and moving his entire fortune to it to avoid taxes.
What bit of giving away most of his fortune do you not understand?
I'm increasingly thinking the insidious comments of the left about tax are just based on jealously....
Comments
He'll weigh in among his colleagues where he has to but he's more interested in the big picture stuff, presentationism, and statecraft.
That means he'll keep the pledge but leave the details to his team, which means Osborne wins.
worse, and that's a global rule (George Bush-George W.Bush- Jeb Bush).
The Benn and Kinnock families are no exception.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wedgwood_Benn,_1st_Viscount_Stansgate
A really quite remarkable family.
Go for it, boys and girls, but stay away from Aya Napa - too down market for Crabs.
Amazing electrifying stuff. If this ever descends to WWIII, Dave simply must make him Foreign Secretary.
I could claim I work for Apple, or Google or IBM or whatever and start tweeting neo-nazi rubbish. Surely there is some comeback.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35002158
When the opposite was done with Brown stuff it was an absolute disaster.
I suppose there's Kinnock. Prescott's son attempted to win a seat, as did Straw's?
On the Tory side there's Soames (is he still an MP?), and there must be more. Richard Drax?
One can always find examples of political dynasties when the son does better than the father or the reverse if you want.
But Beeston ? Mind you, at least they have a Birds Bakery, so you could have had some of the country's best pork pies as you talked.
(BTW, it was meant to be a joke).
GOP -Trump 27, Cruz 13, Rubio 11, Christie 10, Carson 9, Kasich 8, Fiorina 6, Bush 5, Paul 4
Democrats - Clinton 44%, Sanders 42%, O'Malley 8%
90% of New Hampshire Democrats think Christianity should be legal, 58% of New Hampshire Republicans think Islam should be legal.
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2015/12/trump-still-leads-in-nh-but-christie-rising-clintonsanders-closely-matched.html
The beer will still be good however.
I'm talking about political dynasties not Royal dynasties.
Jack Straw's son Will fought the marginal seat of Rossendale in May but lost and leads the pro EU campaign
Given the disastrous state of Europe the better we do economically the more net migration we will have. The worse we do the less we will have. The failure to hit one target has been caused by doing better than expected (and the continent doing worse than expected) on the other.
And I don't think to be frank the government would change that if they could. If you could give a Matrix style choice of if you take the white pill you continue to have a good economy but high migration, or the black pill and you'll have a terrible economy and low migration then there is no doubt in my eyes that even if Cameron was never disingenuous over migration he'd take the white one every time.
Seriously, they're really good.
The changes from the last PPP poll are :
Trump -1
Cruz +5
Rubio -1
Christie+7 (thanks to Union Leader endorsement)
Carson -2
Kasich -2
Fiorina -1
Bush -3 (that dynasty thing)
Paul 0
This of course further splits the opposition to Trump, there are now 5 candidates at around 10% while Trump is way ahead at the high 20's.
And the match-ups are also in favour of Trump in N.H:
Trump 32
Rubio 25
Cruz 18
Carson 13
Trump 35
Rubio 32
Cruz 22
Trump 45
Rubio 45
http://www.redpepper.org.uk/we-marched-for-peace-not-to-bully-stella-creasy/
"Fears of poor turnout in Oldham
Mike Smithson, an election analyst, has some grim predictions about the turnout in tonight's by-election.
Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB
I'm getting more info about the very poor turnout in Oldham. Could be sub 30%. Question is who that favours"
Indeed Corbynite Labour has its best prospects if the war goes very badly and public opinion swings heavily against the war.
Time will tell, though of course we can never know the alternative outcome.
Hilary Benn is still being an insider. All this stuff about him being 'brave' to face the brickbats of a few twitter twats is specious nonsense. On the other side there is the media (who are now apparently playing him on a loop), the 'international community', the political class, and ultimately the USA - forces exemplified by a Prime Minister likening those who opposed the bombing to terrorist sympathisers. These are the sources of patronage and favour, not some £3 Labour members.
My parents are pretty much old school Labour voters, not that politically aware, they didn't know there was a by election tonight for instance, but I reckon they'd both vote Labour again if Tony Benn's son was running the show
They might be put off by the name Hilary on a bloke though!
Once the GE bandwagon gets up and running they are drowned out by normal voters and become marginalised once more. This is their time.
I think there's also some outlets in Leicestershire as well. Hopefully they'll have the same effect on the tribes there.
Perhaps you mean Suzanne Evans
I think the reasons for opposing the war will matter to Joe Public - if it's opposed on the grounds that Western governments don't know their arse from their elbow about the Middle East, and that we're better off leaving it to people who do know better, then I think there would be quite a ready audience. But Corbyn's opposition is sadly probably going to strike people more as wishy-washy pacifism as a principle.
Trump – 27% (24)
Rubio – 17% (14)
Carson – 16% (23)
Cruz – 16% (13)
Bush – 5% (4)
Fiorina – 3% (3)
Christie – 2% (3)
Kasich – 2% (3)
Paul – 2% (2)
Huckabee – 1% (1)
Gilmore – 0% (0)
Graham – 0% (0)
Pataki – 0% (0)
Santorum – 0% (1)
Undecided – 8% (9)
General Election Matchups
Clinton – 45%
Rubio – 44%
Clinton – 46%
Carson – 43%
Clinton – 47%
Cruz – 42%
Clinton – 47%
Trump – 41%
Sanders 44% (41%)
Rubio 43% (47%)
Sanders 47% (39%)
Carson 41% (51%)
Sanders 49% (46%)
Trump 41% (44%)
Sanders 49% (44%)
Cruz 39% (45%)
http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2307
(I see that there is one in Anstey. Perilously close to Walkers headquarters)
Net Favorability w/ Latino voters:
Rubio +3
Carson +2
Cruz -7
Jeb -8
ROMNEY (2011) -11
Christie -12
Kasich -12
Trump -46
Net Favorability w/ White voters:
Carson +11
Rubio +5
ROMNEY (2011) +5
Cruz -3
Trump -6
Kasich -14
Chrisite -18
Jeb -27
Net Favorability w/ Women:
Carson +6
Rubio +1
ROMNEY (2011) -5
Cruz -8
Kasich -9
Chrisite -15
Jeb -24
Trump -26
Net Favorability w/ Millenials:
Carson +3
Rubio +2
Cruz -6
Kasich -11
ROMNEY (2011) -15
Chrisite -18
Jeb -20
Trump -33
https://twitter.com/adrian_gray
George VI of course only had daughters and, one way and another seems to have instilled a sense of duty into them, although it went awry in the case of his younger daiughter.
I quite take your point now and agree that George V was a bit of an odd cove (he last words were reputed to have been "Bugger Bognor") and who suffered under the lash of Queen Victoria's dysfunctional family (I am sure the old girl was off her head or, maybe, just a plain selfish old bitch).
I also think it a tragedy that George VI died so young.
Romney might have had a -11 favourables with Latinos, but in the end only 1 in 4 voted for him, he lost them by 44 points.
And Trump regularly gets more votes than Rubio with Latinos in the opinion polls, despite the huge gap.
It simply illustrates that having high favourables in a voting group that will never vote for you anyway is a waste of time.
This isn't a European-style war based on our sort of values. This is medieval religious fundamentalists wanting to conquer all other civilisations with their own, and expecting to be almost wiped out themselves.
'Going badly' from our point of view would probably mean a medieval civilisation spreading outwards and engulfing Europe. Once that pattern became clear I reckon public opinion would be in favour of throwing everything at keeping it at bay.
(edited for grammar)
Daniel Hewitt @DanielHewittITV 13m13 minutes ago
The heavens have opened In Oldham, a downpour of biblical proportions. Turnout is going to be very, very low. Those who are old enough to vote after 2000.
Basically anyone born after 1982.
Interesting....
It is!
Shock, multi-billionaire founding his own charity foundation and moving his entire fortune to it to avoid taxes.
Even if it wasn't intentional, which I don't think it was, leaving the dead cat on the table works when you have someone so weak and withering as Corbo as leader of the opposition.
Yet again, Labour politics is drowned out by noise. This is what Blair and Mandy did so well 97-08....
Of course they voted NO.
I'm increasingly thinking the insidious comments of the left about tax are just based on jealously....
The logical conclusion from that argument is that he has been speeding every single day then...I would throw the book at him.