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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Syria – the big debate goes on

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  • MTimT said:

    Danny565 said:

    Agreed. Although it will invite the tiresome talk of "colonialism", part of me does think the West needs to take it upon ourselves to redraw the map in that part of the world, into countries that will make for a more stable settlement in the long run.

    I've slowly been heading this way, as anyone reading my posts on here for the last few years will have noticed. The biggest issues to my mind area:

    1) Imposing it can be problematic, both in the short term and long term.
    2) When a country splits in this manner, it can cause massive population movements.

    For 1), we have to ask whether Sunni, Shia, Alawite and Kurd can be represented together by the same government. History has shown it is difficult, which is exactly why strongmen have been needed to run these countries, at the expense of periodic atrocities. *If* locals can be persuaded then the imposition need not be impossible - and it would have to be agreed locally.

    For 2), we have already had massive population movements because of the civil war. That ship has mostly sailed.

    Personally, I would try favouring a series of semi-autonomous regions rather than splitting the countr(y/ies) up into separate states, at least at first. This would lead to a similar situation to the Kurdish Regional Government in Iraq, except over the whole country. This federal approach might allow Syria and Iraq to remain as whole entities, whilst giving some autonomy to local populations. It might act as a pressure-relief valve on discontent.

    It will also cost a lot of money. But at the end of the day, money will be much of the answer to keep the groups on our side or in check.
    I never thought it was such a bad idea when Biden suggested it. The big problem I foresaw was how to divvie up Iraq's oil revenues between the successor states in order to encourage a peaceful transition.

    But, it was shat on from a great height, particularly by those who argued that Iraq must remain integral - I suspect argued to avoid recriminations of colonialism. I hate when we second guess ourselves out of doing the right thing. Take the hit and move on, it would have been less costly in the long run.
    It would be nice if the Kurds were rewarded for their courage and tenacity in the fight against IS by finally getting their own state.
  • On the other hand, having said what I did about Daesh earlier, this is very funny and makes some good points:

    ‘They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He shends one of yoursh to the hospital, you shend one of hish to the morgue.’ Thus Sean Connery in The Untouchables, explaining how you fight a war ‘Chicago-style’. How would you adapt that, do we think, for our collective response to the Paris attacks? ‘They pull a gun, you pull a hashtag. They send 132 of yours to the morgue, you start calling them a slightly rude name.’

    http://new.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/daesh-sheesh/
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,893


    I thought (and might be wrong) it is to remove the threat from ISIS and alN in the short term, and in the long term to support the Vienna peace talks in working towards a transitional government that might be able to bring peace to Syria.

    I am not going to suggest that you might be wrong, I merely point out that your idea of the end game doesn't seem to tie up very closely with what HMG is suggesting in Parliament this very afternoon.

    On more important matters: did you download the Elite:Horizons Beta and if so is it ny good?
    Mr Llama, I have indeed downloaded it. Unfortunately when I specified my work PC (now my gaming PC) I gave it a very fast processor (needed for work) and a relatively low-class graphics card. When I first approached a planet it looked like a virus with spikes protruding into space; an update of the card drivers fixed that. But now when I land the planet's surface is odd, to say the least.

    Other people have seen these effects, and apparently they are being looked into. But in the meantime I'm considering getting a new PC specifically for gaming. Hopefully it will see me to at least season 5 of the game.

    I might even try building one. I haven't done that for fifteen years though, and it costs more. :)
    You could simply upgrade the graphics card. Would be quite a bit cheaper!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,371
    MTimT said:

    Danny565 said:

    Agreed. Although it will invite the tiresome talk of "colonialism", part of me does think the West needs to take it upon ourselves to redraw the map in that part of the world, into countries that will make for a more stable settlement in the long run.

    I've slowly been heading this way, as anyone reading my posts on here for the last few years will have noticed. The biggest issues to my mind area:

    1) Imposing it can be problematic, both in the short term and long term.
    2) When a country splits in this manner, it can cause massive population movements.

    For 1), we have to ask whether Sunni, Shia, Alawite and Kurd can be represented together by the same government. History has shown it is difficult, which is exactly why strongmen have been needed to run these countries, at the expense of periodic atrocities. *If* locals can be persuaded then the imposition need not be impossible - and it would have to be agreed locally.

    For 2), we have already had massive population movements because of the civil war. That ship has mostly sailed.

    Personally, I would try favouring a series of semi-autonomous regions rather than splitting the countr(y/ies) up into separate states, at least at first. This would lead to a similar situation to the Kurdish Regional Government in Iraq, except over the whole country. This federal approach might allow Syria and Iraq to remain as whole entities, whilst giving some autonomy to local populations. It might act as a pressure-relief valve on discontent.

    It will also cost a lot of money. But at the end of the day, money will be much of the answer to keep the groups on our side or in check.
    I never thought it was such a bad idea when Biden suggested it. The big problem I foresaw was how to divvie up Iraq's oil revenues between the successor states in order to encourage a peaceful transition.

    But, it was shat on from a great height, particularly by those who argued that Iraq must remain integral - I suspect argued to avoid recriminations of colonialism. I hate when we second guess ourselves out of doing the right thing. Take the hit and move on, it would have been less costly in the long run.
    The oil issue is one reason I think a federal solution might be more feasible than separate countries. Although AIUI the deal between the KRG and the Baghdad government over oil has recently broken down.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    I've been thinking just this as the debate has worn on:
    https://twitter.com/Robert___Harris/status/672123658358423552
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,994
    I think I am sitting in a small slice of the Venn Diagram - voted Corbyn, supporting today's motion and voting Leave in the referendum.
  • I love Alan Johnson's clear, cool contempt for the Corbynistas. He speaks for millions of current and former Labour voters, as well as many others, I suspect. It's such a shame he did not have the drive or ambition to go for the Labour leadership, and that people like him would have no chance in the Labour party Nick Palmer and his mates clearly have their hearts set on. .
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,727
    Poor stuff from Burnham again I'm told.

    I'm not entirely sure that Corbyn was Labour's worst outcome for leader. Burnham seems keen to demonstrate that he would have been much worse. Such a mixed bag though - he has lots of good moments. I guess I'd conclude that he rather lacks self-confidence.

    Interesting watching Twigg - the background was Lammy and Zippy. Neither of them seem to be the UK's Obama.



  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,280
    Where can one watch the debate - later?

    Thank you.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,893
    Cyclefree said:

    Where can one watch the debate - later?

    Thank you.

    Parliament website, where it will always be up, or BBC iPlayer for a month.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    On the other hand, having said what I did about Daesh earlier, this is very funny and makes some good points:

    ‘They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He shends one of yoursh to the hospital, you shend one of hish to the morgue.’ Thus Sean Connery in The Untouchables, explaining how you fight a war ‘Chicago-style’. How would you adapt that, do we think, for our collective response to the Paris attacks? ‘They pull a gun, you pull a hashtag. They send 132 of yours to the morgue, you start calling them a slightly rude name.’

    http://new.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/daesh-sheesh/

    That is very, very good.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,371
    RobD said:


    I thought (and might be wrong) it is to remove the threat from ISIS and alN in the short term, and in the long term to support the Vienna peace talks in working towards a transitional government that might be able to bring peace to Syria.

    I am not going to suggest that you might be wrong, I merely point out that your idea of the end game doesn't seem to tie up very closely with what HMG is suggesting in Parliament this very afternoon.

    On more important matters: did you download the Elite:Horizons Beta and if so is it ny good?
    Mr Llama, I have indeed downloaded it. Unfortunately when I specified my work PC (now my gaming PC) I gave it a very fast processor (needed for work) and a relatively low-class graphics card. When I first approached a planet it looked like a virus with spikes protruding into space; an update of the card drivers fixed that. But now when I land the planet's surface is odd, to say the least.

    Other people have seen these effects, and apparently they are being looked into. But in the meantime I'm considering getting a new PC specifically for gaming. Hopefully it will see me to at least season 5 of the game.

    I might even try building one. I haven't done that for fifteen years though, and it costs more. :)
    You could simply upgrade the graphics card. Would be quite a bit cheaper!
    To get a decent one I'd need a better PSU, which the case might not take. I also don't like using my 'work' PC for gaming, even though I'm not working atm. It used to get regularly wiped between projects (in one case, a customer insisted on wiping it for me!)

    The one advantage in making my own PC is that I can specify the parts: I can choose PSU, motherboard, processor etc and choose manufacturers and makes. This makes it more feasible to upgrade. Typically I get a new PC every three or so years, and a new laptop every two. Last time I built a PC I kept it going for about seven years by regularly changing components. The key is to buy the biggest practical case (also helps with cooling).
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    The oil price is in decline again, maybe something to do with the prospect of British bombing in Syria.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/energy
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited December 2015
    Goodness knows what the good people of Oldham think of today's events.

    Nigel Farage talking in the Telegraph about wiping out labour in the North.

    For what that's worth
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,562
    edited December 2015

    Pulpstar said:

    I'm told two @LibDems MPs "struggling" to support @timfarron in opposing airstrikes #syriavote

    Full on rebellion in the Lib Dem party....

    Brake and Pugh nailed on.
    Brake intervened on Cameron and said he would back the motion. So it must be someone else - Williams maybe?

    To my surprise, I'm hearing Norman Lamb may rebel.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    I love Alan Johnson's clear, cool contempt for the Corbynistas. He speaks for millions of current and former Labour voters, as well as many others, I suspect. It's such a shame he did not have the drive or ambition to go for the Labour leadership, and that people like him would have no chance in the Labour party Nick Palmer and his mates clearly have their hearts set on. .

    He'd be almost 70 at the time of the next general election so not surprising he didn't want to go for the leadership in today's high pressure 24/7 political environment.
  • Wanderer said:

    I've been thinking just this as the debate has worn on:
    https://twitter.com/Robert___Harris/status/672123658358423552

    And me. It's such a shame really. If we did not have FPTP they could start something new and probably begin to build a rational, reasonable alternative to both the Tories and Palmer Labour.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,999
    Lennon said:

    AndyJS said:

    That's an insult to dim bulbs.

    Woodcock was heckled by well-respected shadow City Minister (!!) Richard Burgon - one of the dimmest bulbs in the labour pack.

    So busy on STW events, I wonder if he's found which City the City is in yet.

    Dan Hodges ‏@DPJHodges 15m15 minutes ago
    Not content with encouraging a march on his own party's HQ yesterday @RichardBurgon is now heckling his own colleague @JWoodcockMP.

    Standards are really slipping at Oxbridge these days if they let him in.
    He went to St John's - clearly they have pretty low standards. (Says an old Queensman)
    OGH was a fellow at Queens
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,893

    RobD said:


    I thought (and might be wrong) it is to remove the threat from ISIS and alN in the short term, and in the long term to support the Vienna peace talks in working towards a transitional government that might be able to bring peace to Syria.

    I am not going to suggest that you might be wrong, I merely point out that your idea of the end game doesn't seem to tie up very closely with what HMG is suggesting in Parliament this very afternoon.

    On more important matters: did you download the Elite:Horizons Beta and if so is it ny good?
    Mr Llama, I have indeed downloaded it. Unfortunately when I specified my work PC (now my gaming PC) I gave it a very fast processor (needed for work) and a relatively low-class graphics card. When I first approached a planet it looked like a virus with spikes protruding into space; an update of the card drivers fixed that. But now when I land the planet's surface is odd, to say the least.

    Other people have seen these effects, and apparently they are being looked into. But in the meantime I'm considering getting a new PC specifically for gaming. Hopefully it will see me to at least season 5 of the game.

    I might even try building one. I haven't done that for fifteen years though, and it costs more. :)
    You could simply upgrade the graphics card. Would be quite a bit cheaper!
    To get a decent one I'd need a better PSU, which the case might not take. I also don't like using my 'work' PC for gaming, even though I'm not working atm. It used to get regularly wiped between projects (in one case, a customer insisted on wiping it for me!)

    The one advantage in making my own PC is that I can specify the parts: I can choose PSU, motherboard, processor etc and choose manufacturers and makes. This makes it more feasible to upgrade. Typically I get a new PC every three or so years, and a new laptop every two. Last time I built a PC I kept it going for about seven years by regularly changing components. The key is to buy the biggest practical case (also helps with cooling).
    The PC I built has a monstrous case. While good for upgradability and air flow, not good for moving house ;)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,371

    I think I am sitting in a small slice of the Venn Diagram - voted Corbyn, supporting today's motion and voting Leave in the referendum.

    You might have to borrow the Lib Dem's taxi to carry all your fellow thinkers! :)
  • tpfkar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'm told two @LibDems MPs "struggling" to support @timfarron in opposing airstrikes #syriavote

    Full on rebellion in the Lib Dem party....

    Brake and Pugh nailed on.
    Brake intervened on Cameron and said he would back the motion. So it must be someone else - Williams maybe?
    To my surprise, I'm hearing Norman Lamb may rebel.
    What has gone unnoticed is that the Lib Dems have a bigger gap between MPs and its membership than the Labour party.

    http://www.libdemvoice.org/ldv-members-survey-on-syria-67-oppose-airstrikes-now-butand-its-a-big-but-48468.html

    http://liberator-magazine.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/is-there-any-longer-point-to-liberal.html
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098


    I thought (and might be wrong) it is to remove the threat from ISIS and alN in the short term, and in the long term to support the Vienna peace talks in working towards a transitional government that might be able to bring peace to Syria.

    I am not going to suggest that you might be wrong, I merely point out that your idea of the end game doesn't seem to tie up very closely with what HMG is suggesting in Parliament this very afternoon.

    On more important matters: did you download the Elite:Horizons Beta and if so is it ny good?
    Mr Llama, I have indeed downloaded it. Unfortunately when I specified my work PC (now my gaming PC) I gave it a very fast processor (needed for work) and a relatively low-class graphics card. When I first approached a planet it looked like a virus with spikes protruding into space; an update of the card drivers fixed that. But now when I land the planet's surface is odd, to say the least.

    Other people have seen these effects, and apparently they are being looked into. But in the meantime I'm considering getting a new PC specifically for gaming. Hopefully it will see me to at least season 5 of the game.

    I might even try building one. I haven't done that for fifteen years though, and it costs more. :)
    Thanks for that, Mr. J.. If you ever do get it working I would be grateful for any news of the gameplay.

    I am surprised that you think a roll your own machine would be more expensive. My boy built himself a gaming computer a year or so back and by my reckoning he saved himself at least £300. Mind you a computers do not last that long these days; my current one was top end two and a half years ago but it now needs a new graphics card and a memory upgrade to 16gb, so that's the best part of £300 to be found in the new year.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,893

    tpfkar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'm told two @LibDems MPs "struggling" to support @timfarron in opposing airstrikes #syriavote

    Full on rebellion in the Lib Dem party....

    Brake and Pugh nailed on.
    Brake intervened on Cameron and said he would back the motion. So it must be someone else - Williams maybe?
    To my surprise, I'm hearing Norman Lamb may rebel.
    What has gone unnoticed is that the Lib Dems have a bigger gap between MPs and its membership than the Labour party.

    http://www.libdemvoice.org/ldv-members-survey-on-syria-67-oppose-airstrikes-now-butand-its-a-big-but-48468.html

    http://liberator-magazine.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/is-there-any-longer-point-to-liberal.html
    Is that forum representative of the membership at large?
  • AndyJS said:

    I love Alan Johnson's clear, cool contempt for the Corbynistas. He speaks for millions of current and former Labour voters, as well as many others, I suspect. It's such a shame he did not have the drive or ambition to go for the Labour leadership, and that people like him would have no chance in the Labour party Nick Palmer and his mates clearly have their hearts set on. .

    He'd be almost 70 at the time of the next general election so not surprising he didn't want to go for the leadership in today's high pressure 24/7 political environment.

    I meant against Ed, who has now become the second worse leader of a major political party in history.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,575
    Omnium said:

    Poor stuff from Burnham again I'm told.

    I'm not entirely sure that Corbyn was Labour's worst outcome for leader. Burnham seems keen to demonstrate that he would have been much worse. Such a mixed bag though - he has lots of good moments. I guess I'd conclude that he rather lacks self-confidence.

    Interesting watching Twigg - the background was Lammy and Zippy. Neither of them seem to be the UK's Obama.



    Polls consistently had Burnham polling best with the public while Corbyn was usually last
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,893
    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    The oil price is in decline again, maybe something to do with the prospect of British bombing in Syria.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/energy

    No, it's because of OPEC saying they won't cut production if non-OPEC willnae.

    Imagine iScotland's fiscal situation, around about now.
    Try asking that question to an SNP politician. You'll get nutted.
  • I think I am sitting in a small slice of the Venn Diagram - voted Corbyn, supporting today's motion and voting Leave in the referendum.

    I think I might be joining you :)
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,280
    Completely O/T for @MTimT:

    I showed your Nature article about Bio Security to someone at work in the context of discussion about how to manage operational risk who, as it happens, has a background in the nuclear industry, and they found it very interesting. I think the section you wrote on HROs has some pertinent messages for how to inculcate the right culture re risk in banking and I am thinking of using it further. Of course, people may think I'm mad (or at least madder than normal) making any sort of analogy between biosecurity and banking but I tend to think that if you look at problems from a different perspective you can get worthwhile insights.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    I think I am sitting in a small slice of the Venn Diagram - voted Corbyn, supporting today's motion and voting Leave in the referendum.

    I think I might be joining you :)
    ...awkward silence...
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,228
    dr_spyn said:

    Please put down the coffee, tea, or over beverage of your choice.

    https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/672118845092601856

    QT what a bunch. Will the Stop The Traffic marchers be invited to turn up?

    I think I'll give that one a miss....
  • No one has commented, but one side effect of having the Syria debate today is that all Labour's MPs will be in Westminster rather than Oldham West. I expect that most of their activists will have been glued to twitter or the TV as well.

    UKIP supporters are far less invested in this decision (though obviously they have views). Might this have had an impact on the ground game on the final day of campaigning in the by-election?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,280
    RobD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Where can one watch the debate - later?

    Thank you.

    Parliament website, where it will always be up, or BBC iPlayer for a month.
    Thank you.

  • No one has commented, but one side effect of having the Syria debate today is that all Labour's MPs will be in Westminster rather than Oldham West. I expect that most of their activists will have been glued to twitter or the TV as well.

    UKIP supporters are far less invested in this decision (though obviously they have views). Might this have had an impact on the ground game on the final day of campaigning in the by-election?

    It really does look like a perfect storm for UKIP. Here's hoping.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979

    No one has commented, but one side effect of having the Syria debate today is that all Labour's MPs will be in Westminster rather than Oldham West. I expect that most of their activists will have been glued to twitter or the TV as well.

    UKIP supporters are far less invested in this decision (though obviously they have views). Might this have had an impact on the ground game on the final day of campaigning in the by-election?

    Maybe, although if the Labour activisits were putting people off, might it be in their favour to not be as visible?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,072
    Wanderer said:

    MTimT said:

    Putin's popularity in Russia is high (80%+ - essentially everyone except the Moscow and St Petersburg middle classes who are outside the kleptocracy) based upon three things, only one of which is sustainable:

    1. restoration of law and order
    2. good fortune to have presided over a boom in the value of energy exports (currently not so)
    3. revival of Soviet - sorry, Russian - pride with the annexation of Crimea.

    We have seen with both Afghanistan and Chechnya that Russia is not immune to popular discontent based on body bag counts. A limited number of deaths that are the cost of successful overseas adventures will bolster Putin's popularity. I would expect higher numbers, or deaths resulting from unsuccessful adventures, or terrorism coming home to roost to have a significant adverse impact on his ratings if sustained.

    Thanks for your reply. If anything, another military triumph may well add to Putin's popularity.
    AnneJGP said:

    @JesseRodriguez ·
    NBC News: ISIS releases video showing beheading of alleged Russian spy

    @calmsnbc · 10m10 minutes ago

    Cal Perry Retweeted Jesse Rodriguez
    Executioner in video is speaking Russian ... with accent - message clearly directed at #Moscow.

    What a bunch of idiots. They want to wage war against Russia as well? These people really are cruising for a bruising, as my grandma would say.

    Thats their plan. The great big battle to end all great big battles. The thing is Putin isn't scared of going to war nor too concerned about what parliament / public might think if some Russian (or civilians) get killed. All ISIS need to do now is poke the Chinese.
    Don't they worship Putin in Russia as if he's some-kind of demi-god? Though Russia has never struck me as a massively democratic place under Putin.

    ISIS are idiots if they believe they can win a battle vs an enemy which has Russia, the rest of Europe, China and the US on the same side.
    No, they are not idiots.

    My understanding of the Islamic idea of armageddon is nil, but if it bears any relationship to the biblical description, they are expecting God to weigh in on their side.

    So not idiots, just believers.
    If they think that then they are in for a shock.
    I don't know how accurate this article is but it suggests that they are expecting to be almost completely defeated before Jesus appears to save them http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/
    Thanks for posting that link. Very interesting indeed.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited December 2015
    ''It really does look like a perfect storm for UKIP. Here's hoping. ''

    In the telegraph tonight, Farage is offering up a few hostages to fortune.
  • AndyJS said:

    I love Alan Johnson's clear, cool contempt for the Corbynistas. He speaks for millions of current and former Labour voters, as well as many others, I suspect. It's such a shame he did not have the drive or ambition to go for the Labour leadership, and that people like him would have no chance in the Labour party Nick Palmer and his mates clearly have their hearts set on. .

    He'd be almost 70 at the time of the next general election so not surprising he didn't want to go for the leadership in today's high pressure 24/7 political environment.

    I meant against Ed, who has now become the second worse leader of a major political party in history.
    Age doesn't seem to have put Hillary off. I mean Clinton of course.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited December 2015

    No one has commented, but one side effect of having the Syria debate today is that all Labour's MPs will be in Westminster rather than Oldham West. I expect that most of their activists will have been glued to twitter or the TV as well.

    UKIP supporters are far less invested in this decision (though obviously they have views). Might this have had an impact on the ground game on the final day of campaigning in the by-election?

    It really does look like a perfect storm for UKIP. Here's hoping.

    Are UKIP going to pick up the bombing vote? Farage has been very unenthusiastic.

    Are Labour going to pick up the anti-bombing vote with a red Tory?

    Both sides seem rather equivocal. It may make little net difference.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,371


    I thought (and might be wrong) it is to remove the threat from ISIS and alN in the short term, and in the long term to support the Vienna peace talks in working towards a transitional government that might be able to bring peace to Syria.

    I am not going to suggest that you might be wrong, I merely point out that your idea of the end game doesn't seem to tie up very closely with what HMG is suggesting in Parliament this very afternoon.

    On more important matters: did you download the Elite:Horizons Beta and if so is it ny good?
    Mr Llama, I have indeed downloaded it. Unfortunately when I specified my work PC (now my gaming PC) I gave it a very fast processor (needed for work) and a relatively low-class graphics card. When I first approached a planet it looked like a virus with spikes protruding into space; an update of the card drivers fixed that. But now when I land the planet's surface is odd, to say the least.

    Other people have seen these effects, and apparently they are being looked into. But in the meantime I'm considering getting a new PC specifically for gaming. Hopefully it will see me to at least season 5 of the game.

    I might even try building one. I haven't done that for fifteen years though, and it costs more. :)
    Thanks for that, Mr. J.. If you ever do get it working I would be grateful for any news of the gameplay.

    I am surprised that you think a roll your own machine would be more expensive. My boy built himself a gaming computer a year or so back and by my reckoning he saved himself at least £300. Mind you a computers do not last that long these days; my current one was top end two and a half years ago but it now needs a new graphics card and a memory upgrade to 16gb, so that's the best part of £300 to be found in the new year.
    You might well be right: it's many years since I last did it. I'll have to ask around. :)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,058
    edited December 2015

    No one has commented, but one side effect of having the Syria debate today is that all Labour's MPs will be in Westminster rather than Oldham West. I expect that most of their activists will have been glued to twitter or the TV as well.

    UKIP supporters are far less invested in this decision (though obviously they have views). Might this have had an impact on the ground game on the final day of campaigning in the by-election?

    It really does look like a perfect storm for UKIP. Here's hoping.

    Are UKIP going to pick up the bombing vote? Farage has been very unenthusiastic.

    Are Labour going to pick up the anti-bombing vote with a red Tory?

    Both sides seem tather equivocal. It may make little net difference.
    I doubt the facts of UKIP's position don't get in the way of favourable perception to the good burgers of Oldham.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,058
    Wow, just laid Hilary Benn at 4-1 on Betfair.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Cyclefree said:

    Completely O/T for @MTimT:

    I showed your Nature article about Bio Security to someone at work in the context of discussion about how to manage operational risk who, as it happens, has a background in the nuclear industry, and they found it very interesting. I think the section you wrote on HROs has some pertinent messages for how to inculcate the right culture re risk in banking and I am thinking of using it further. Of course, people may think I'm mad (or at least madder than normal) making any sort of analogy between biosecurity and banking but I tend to think that if you look at problems from a different perspective you can get worthwhile insights.

    The essence of risk analysis, excellent communications, continual improvement and peer/personal accountability transcends industries - it is a meta model applicable in any industry where the costs of failure are high.

    The nuclear industry is adopting it pretty widely as an approach, with a new organization in Vienna - WINS - leading the charge. https://www.wins.org/index.php?article_id=52

    Also the IAEA, through its International Nuclear Safety Group INSAG, has published on this.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Michael Deacon
    A list of public misconceptions, released today by the polling firm Ipsos Mori https://t.co/ln51959ruy

    The non-religious population 'mis-conception' is caused by the hugely biased census question from which the data is derived.
  • AnneJGP said:

    Wanderer said:

    MTimT said:

    Putin's popularity in Russia is high (80%+ - essentially everyone except the Moscow and St Petersburg middle classes who are outside the kleptocracy) based upon three things, only one of which is sustainable:

    1. restoration of law and order
    2. good fortune to have presided over a boom in the value of energy exports (currently not so)
    3. revival of Soviet - sorry, Russian - pride with the annexation of Crimea.

    We have seen with both Afghanistan and Chechnya that Russia is not immune to popular discontent based on body bag counts. A limited number of deaths that are the cost of successful overseas adventures will bolster Putin's popularity. I would expect higher numbers, or deaths resulting from unsuccessful adventures, or terrorism coming home to roost to have a significant adverse impact on his ratings if sustained.

    Thanks for your reply. If anything, another military triumph may well add to Putin's popularity.
    AnneJGP said:

    @JesseRodriguez ·
    NBC News: ISIS releases video showing beheading of alleged Russian spy

    @calmsnbc · 10m10 minutes ago

    Cal Perry Retweeted Jesse Rodriguez
    Executioner in video is speaking Russian ... with accent - message clearly directed at #Moscow.

    What a bunch of idiots. They want to wage war against Russia as well? These people really are cruising for a bruising, as my grandma would say.

    snip
    Don't they worship Putin in Russia as if he's some-kind of demi-god? Though Russia has never struck me as a massively democratic place under Putin.

    ISIS are idiots if they believe they can win a battle vs an enemy which has Russia, the rest of Europe, China and the US on the same side.
    No, they are not idiots.

    My understanding of the Islamic idea of armageddon is nil, but if it bears any relationship to the biblical description, they are expecting God to weigh in on their side.

    So not idiots, just believers.
    If they think that then they are in for a shock.
    I don't know how accurate this article is but it suggests that they are expecting to be almost completely defeated before Jesus appears to save them http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/
    Thanks for posting that link. Very interesting indeed.
    An important line in this article:

    "The reality is that the Islamic State is Islamic. Very Islamic."
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,306
    edited December 2015
    The Free Syrian Army have apparently agreed to leave their last district in Homs under a ceasefire, leaving the city under full Government control. http://www.wsj.com/articles/syrian-rebels-assads-forces-begin-cease-fire-in-homs-1449083700
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    MTimT said:

    Danny565 said:

    Agreed. Although it will invite the tiresome talk of "colonialism", part of me does think the West needs to take it upon ourselves to redraw the map in that part of the world, into countries that will make for a more stable settlement in the long run.

    I've slowly been heading this way, as anyone reading my posts on here for the last few years will have noticed. The biggest issues to my mind area:

    1) Imposing it can be problematic, both in the short term and long term.
    2) When a country splits in this manner, it can cause massive population movements.

    For 1), we have to ask whether Sunni, Shia, Alawite and Kurd can be represented together by the same government. History has shown it is difficult, which is exactly why strongmen have been needed to run these countries, at the expense of periodic atrocities. *If* locals can be persuaded then the imposition need not be impossible - and it would have to be agreed locally.

    For 2), we have already had massive population movements because of the civil war. That ship has mostly sailed.

    Personally, I would try favouring a series of semi-autonomous regions rather than splitting the countr(y/ies) up into separate states, at least at first. This would lead to a similar situation to the Kurdish Regional Government in Iraq, except over the whole country. This federal approach might allow Syria and Iraq to remain as whole entities, whilst giving some autonomy to local populations. It might act as a pressure-relief valve on discontent.

    It will also cost a lot of money. But at the end of the day, money will be much of the answer to keep the groups on our side or in check.
    I never thought it was such a bad idea when Biden suggested it. The big problem I foresaw was how to divvie up Iraq's oil revenues between the successor states in order to encourage a peaceful transition.

    But, it was shat on from a great height, particularly by those who argued that Iraq must remain integral - I suspect argued to avoid recriminations of colonialism. I hate when we second guess ourselves out of doing the right thing. Take the hit and move on, it would have been less costly in the long run.
    It would be nice if the Kurds were rewarded for their courage and tenacity in the fight against IS by finally getting their own state.
    Indeed. They are so unfortunate that merely fighting their way to victory in one place is insufficient. They need to overcome the objections of Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria in order for that to happen. I.e., not in our lifetimes.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,727
    HYUFD said:

    Omnium said:

    Poor stuff from Burnham again I'm told.

    I'm not entirely sure that Corbyn was Labour's worst outcome for leader. Burnham seems keen to demonstrate that he would have been much worse. Such a mixed bag though - he has lots of good moments. I guess I'd conclude that he rather lacks self-confidence.

    Interesting watching Twigg - the background was Lammy and Zippy. Neither of them seem to be the UK's Obama.



    Polls consistently had Burnham polling best with the public while Corbyn was usually last
    I know. With hindsight though he fought the worst campaign. I thought he was nailed on at the start. The best choice would have been Kendall, the wisest choice Cooper. However that's projecting views I don't hold.

    @Pulpstar - that's a great bet to lay on the basis of any real-world definition of the terms. I'm slightly wary though of Benn, Watson and Harman on the basis that they could be interim leaders which are judged as permanent by betfair.



  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Nice to know that Diane Abbott is now a qualified military strategist as well as TV superstar. Dan Jarvis must be wondering how she failed to become Secretary of State for Defence.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,575
    Evening Standard reports Sadiq Khan will vote against airstrikes with Corbyn
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    HYUFD said:

    Evening Standard reports Sadiq Khan will vote against airstrikes with Corbyn

    Sympathisers in London will like that.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Powerful speech from Tom Tugendhat in favour of the motion

    It was an excellent speech
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,999
    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    The oil price is in decline again, maybe something to do with the prospect of British bombing in Syria.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/energy

    No, it's because of OPEC saying they won't cut production if non-OPEC willnae.

    Imagine iScotland's fiscal situation, around about now.
    See http://www.thstailwinds.com/saudi-arabia-hobsons-choice/ for a short (but excellent) piece I wrote on the subject ahead of the OPEC meeting.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,058
    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    Omnium said:

    Poor stuff from Burnham again I'm told.

    I'm not entirely sure that Corbyn was Labour's worst outcome for leader. Burnham seems keen to demonstrate that he would have been much worse. Such a mixed bag though - he has lots of good moments. I guess I'd conclude that he rather lacks self-confidence.

    Interesting watching Twigg - the background was Lammy and Zippy. Neither of them seem to be the UK's Obama.



    Polls consistently had Burnham polling best with the public while Corbyn was usually last
    I know. With hindsight though he fought the worst campaign. I thought he was nailed on at the start. The best choice would have been Kendall, the wisest choice Cooper. However that's projecting views I don't hold.

    @Pulpstar - that's a great bet to lay on the basis of any real-world definition of the terms. I'm slightly wary though of Benn, Watson and Harman on the basis that they could be interim leaders which are judged as permanent by betfair.
    I've got him arbed but David Miliband, Dan Jarvis and Hilary Benn are trading at around 7-4 collectively for next Labour leader on Betfair. So it is a ~ 36% return in around 4 years or less, with opportunity for more if more shorteners are laid.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,072

    AnneJGP said:

    Wanderer said:

    MTimT said:

    Putin's popularity in Russia is high (80%+ - essentially everyone except the Moscow and St Petersburg middle classes who are outside the kleptocracy) based upon three things, only one of which is sustainable:

    1. restoration of law and order
    2. good fortune to have presided over a boom in the value of energy exports (currently not so)
    3. revival of Soviet - sorry, Russian - pride with the annexation of Crimea.

    (snipped)

    Thanks for your reply. If anything, another military triumph may well add to Putin's popularity.
    AnneJGP said:

    @JesseRodriguez ·
    NBC News: ISIS releases video showing beheading of alleged Russian spy

    @calmsnbc · 10m10 minutes ago

    Cal Perry Retweeted Jesse Rodriguez
    Executioner in video is speaking Russian ... with accent - message clearly directed at #Moscow.

    What a bunch of idiots. They want to wage war against Russia as well? These people really are cruising for a bruising, as my grandma would say.

    snip
    Don't they worship Putin in Russia as if he's some-kind of demi-god? Though Russia has never struck me as a massively democratic place under Putin.

    ISIS are idiots if they believe they can win a battle vs an enemy which has Russia, the rest of Europe, China and the US on the same side.
    No, they are not idiots.

    My understanding of the Islamic idea of armageddon is nil, but if it bears any relationship to the biblical description, they are expecting God to weigh in on their side.

    So not idiots, just believers.
    If they think that then they are in for a shock.
    I don't know how accurate this article is but it suggests that they are expecting to be almost completely defeated before Jesus appears to save them http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/
    Thanks for posting that link. Very interesting indeed.
    An important line in this article:

    "The reality is that the Islamic State is Islamic. Very Islamic."
    I know very little about Islam, but I do know about belief in God. So I know that those who do not understand belief in God cannot understand Islam.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Wow, just laid Hilary Benn at 4-1 on Betfair.

    Disappointed I put my £10 on with a traditional bookie and not betfair :/
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,306
    Cyclefree said:

    Danny565 said:

    MTimT said:

    taffys said:

    ''I fear it's becoming ever clearer that the West is weak, and scared, and that ultimately ISIS will win.''

    Scared maybe, weak no.

    100,000 well armed well supported Western troops would go through ISIS for a short cut. Add 100,000 Russians and its game over.

    I think its more 'feeling guilty' than either of the above.

    And do they then just stay forever?


    Ultimately, one has to address the grievances in Sunni areas on both Iraq and Syria if ISIS is to have no sanctuary and support in the long term. Perhaps Biden was not so wrong to suggest carving up Iraq into its constituent parts. Perhaps we should add Syria into the mix to create new state borders more reflective of ethhic, cultural and religious reality.

    While I hate identity politics within Western states, sometimes it is the obvious way to solve internecine problems.
    Agreed. Although it will invite the tiresome talk of "colonialism", part of me does think the West needs to take it upon ourselves to redraw the map in that part of the world, into countries that will make for a more stable settlement in the long run.
    Well, it's not as if self-government has worked out well, has it?

    Redrawing states on the basis of ethnic/religious lines is pretty much what happened in Europe after both World Wars: either boundaries were redrawn or populations moved or both. In the end that may be the only way forward in the Middle East if the people there can't live in peace with themselves, never mind anyone else.
    Are you also proposing the redrawing of Israel to include the State of Palestine and the redrawing of Turkey to create Turkish Kurdistan? Both have considerable difficulties in this area, both stand accused of brutal crackdowns.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,371
    MTimT said:

    Indeed. They are so unfortunate that merely fighting their way to victory in one place is insufficient. They need to overcome the objections of Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria in order for that to happen. I.e., not in our lifetimes.

    Turkey might be more persuadable for Syrian Kurdistan to become a semi-autonomous area rather than a greater Kurdistan. They had a hissy fit about that happening in Iraqi Kurdistan, but it still happened.

    Besides, AIUI there are large cultural and political differences between the Kurds in the various countries. A merged Kurdistan might not work or be sustainable. That's one of the reasons it has taken so long to merge all the peshmerga groups under the DPK and PUK, yet alone the Iranian KDPI.

    I feel very conflicted about the Kurds. They've been a much abused minority in the past as their homelands were fought over. Yet the PKK are a festering sore who make the IRA look like schoolchildren.
  • Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    Omnium said:

    Poor stuff from Burnham again I'm told.

    I'm not entirely sure that Corbyn was Labour's worst outcome for leader. Burnham seems keen to demonstrate that he would have been much worse. Such a mixed bag though - he has lots of good moments. I guess I'd conclude that he rather lacks self-confidence.

    Interesting watching Twigg - the background was Lammy and Zippy. Neither of them seem to be the UK's Obama.



    Polls consistently had Burnham polling best with the public while Corbyn was usually last
    I know. With hindsight though he fought the worst campaign. I thought he was nailed on at the start. The best choice would have been Kendall, the wisest choice Cooper. However that's projecting views I don't hold.

    @Pulpstar - that's a great bet to lay on the basis of any real-world definition of the terms. I'm slightly wary though of Benn, Watson and Harman on the basis that they could be interim leaders which are judged as permanent by betfair.



    Betfair says: "as chosen by a Labour Party leadership contest." I suppose a nest of lawyers could argue over the word 'contest'.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,575
    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    Omnium said:

    Poor stuff from Burnham again I'm told.

    I'm not entirely sure that Corbyn was Labour's worst outcome for leader. Burnham seems keen to demonstrate that he would have been much worse. Such a mixed bag though - he has lots of good moments. I guess I'd conclude that he rather lacks self-confidence.

    Interesting watching Twigg - the background was Lammy and Zippy. Neither of them seem to be the UK's Obama.



    Polls consistently had Burnham polling best with the public while Corbyn was usually last
    I know. With hindsight though he fought the worst campaign. I thought he was nailed on at the start. The best choice would have been Kendall, the wisest choice Cooper. However that's projecting views I don't hold.

    @Pulpstar - that's a great bet to lay on the basis of any real-world definition of the terms. I'm slightly wary though of Benn, Watson and Harman on the basis that they could be interim leaders which are judged as permanent by betfair.



    All hindsight now anyway
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,058

    Pulpstar said:

    Wow, just laid Hilary Benn at 4-1 on Betfair.

    Disappointed I put my £10 on with a traditional bookie and not betfair :/
    I have cash on him with traditional bookies actually. But at 25s. I'd be laying him at 5.0 even if I didn't.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Wow, just laid Hilary Benn at 4-1 on Betfair.

    Disappointed I put my £10 on with a traditional bookie and not betfair :/
    I have cash on him with traditional bookies actually. But at 25s. I'd be laying him at 5.0 even if I didn't.
    Yup, albeit I got 16s; I am considering laying on betfair anyway.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Great speech from Alison McGovern too
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,455
    PM is still in the House, fair play that he is listening to what everyone has to say. Am I right that the vote will be at 10pm UK time?
  • I've been invited to a function next week at the Russian Embassy. Should I go?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,058

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Wow, just laid Hilary Benn at 4-1 on Betfair.

    Disappointed I put my £10 on with a traditional bookie and not betfair :/
    I have cash on him with traditional bookies actually. But at 25s. I'd be laying him at 5.0 even if I didn't.
    Yup, albeit I got 16s; I am considering laying on betfair anyway.
    We are the bunny layers.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,280
    edited December 2015
    MTimT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Completely O/T for @MTimT:

    I showed your Nature article about Bio Security to someone at work in the context of discussion about how to manage operational risk who, as it happens, has a background in the nuclear industry, and they found it very interesting. I think the section you wrote on HROs has some pertinent messages for how to inculcate the right culture re risk in banking and I am thinking of using it further. Of course, people may think I'm mad (or at least madder than normal) making any sort of analogy between biosecurity and banking but I tend to think that if you look at problems from a different perspective you can get worthwhile insights.

    The essence of risk analysis, excellent communications, continual improvement and peer/personal accountability transcends industries - it is a meta model applicable in any industry where the costs of failure are high.

    The nuclear industry is adopting it pretty widely as an approach, with a new organization in Vienna - WINS - leading the charge. https://www.wins.org/index.php?article_id=52

    Also the IAEA, through its International Nuclear Safety Group INSAG, has published on this.
    I'm sure it is but banking has for far too long thought that it did not need to do anything much, let alone the actions you identify. So now that - finally - some focus is being put on it is a good opportunity to introduce some intelligent thinking into the process. Bankers have a tendency to look only at the costs in monetary terms and, while these are bad enough, the real costs are to reputation and trust, which will take years to re-establish. Sure: no-one dies. But the corrosive effect of a loss of trust is pretty real and damaging nonetheless.

    Anyway, thank you for the article.

    By happenstance I also found an article in Nature on banking - http://www.nature.com/news/banking-culture-primes-people-to-cheat-1.16380. This does not surprise me - there are plenty of examples of good people behaving badly if put in the wrong environment. Social pressure, social expectations and social taboos (culture, if you will) are absolutely key.

    Plus - and this is probably more applicable to banking than to your industry - the concepts of shame and guilt are bloody useful. If people felt a bit more guilt and a bit more ashamed about bloody awful behaviour instead of thinking it's something to be praised or no big deal we might – just might – have a bit less of it about.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited December 2015
    Zippy, on the other hand...

    @politicshome: Liam Byrne says he will oppose Govt motion because it does not set out how to "smash Daesh into history". https://t.co/MiF0UtgAJ3
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,893

    I've been invited to a function next week at the Russian Embassy. Should I go?

    What sort of function? It's always good to hobnob.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    I've been invited to a function next week at the Russian Embassy. Should I go?

    If there is free booze why not?
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    It looks like it's over for Tiger.

    After 3 back operations in 15 months, the last one being unexpected, he has nerve damage in his back.

    Watching footage of him glad handing golfers on the range at the tournament he is hosting in the Bahamas this morning he clearly has trouble walking, and he cannot bend over, much less handle even a putter.

    He says he spends his time playing video games. He is normally optimistic about rehabbing and getting back into shape, but yesterday he said he had "nothing to look forward to". I've never seen him so down in a presser. There is no time table for his return, his doctor doesn't how long it will be, or IF it will be.

    If this is the end, surely it's better to be forced out by injuries than retire because you suck.

    Tiger played some of the greatest golf ever seen while in his prime, but Jack Nicklaus is the greatest golfer ever.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300

    I've been invited to a function next week at the Russian Embassy. Should I go?

    Might be churlish not to go. Perhaps they might need advice on who to back in the next Labour leadership contest, when they head out to Paddy Hills or William Power.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,280
    perdix said:

    HYUFD said:

    Evening Standard reports Sadiq Khan will vote against airstrikes with Corbyn

    Sympathisers in London will like that.

    The rest of us won't.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    C4 news Syrian coverage getting increasingly bizarre. Interview with General Dannant I understand, an academic from LSE too, but Michael Morpurgo and Brian Eno?!?

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,994
    Dish, dash, daysh, di-esh. If we are going to use it, at least agree how to say it.

    Memories of Alchy-Ada.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,240

    I've been invited to a function next week at the Russian Embassy. Should I go?

    Hopefully, Mr. Putin wants to hire you as a UK lobbyist at £250,000 p.a.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,436

    I've been invited to a function next week at the Russian Embassy. Should I go?

    Maybe you have Alex Salmond to thank for attracting their attention.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Units responding to a 20 victim shooting incident in San Bernardino. - BBC

    FBI, ATF also at the scene - CNN & Fox News

    Fox News saying a dozen killed and many wounded.

    It's early yet so numbers will possibly change.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,280
    AnneJGP said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Wanderer said:

    MTimT said:

    Putin's popularity in Russia is high (80%+ - essentially everyone except the Moscow and St Petersburg middle classes who are outside the kleptocracy) based upon three things, only one of which is sustainable:

    1. restoration of law and order
    2. good fortune to have presided over a boom in the value of energy exports (currently not so)
    3. revival of Soviet - sorry, Russian - pride with the annexation of Crimea.

    (snipped)

    Thanks for your reply. If anything, another military triumph may well add to Putin's popularity.
    AnneJGP said:

    @JesseRodriguez ·
    NBC News: ISIS releases video showing beheading of alleged Russian spy

    @calmsnbc · 10m10 minutes ago

    Cal Perry Retweeted Jesse Rodriguez
    Executioner in video is speaking Russian ... with accent - message clearly directed at #Moscow.

    What a bunch of idiots. They want to wage war against Russia as well? These people really are cruising for a bruising, as my grandma would say.

    snip
    Don't they worship Putin in Russia as if he's some-kind of demi-god? Though Russia has never struck me as a massively democratic place under Putin.

    ISIS are idiots if they believe they can win a battle vs an enemy which has Russia, the rest of Europe, China and the US on the same side.
    No, they are not idiots.

    My understanding of the Islamic idea of armageddon is nil, but if it bears any relationship to the biblical description, they are expecting God to weigh in on their side.

    So not idiots, just believers.
    If they think that then they are in for a shock.
    I don't know how accurate this article is but it suggests that they are expecting to be almost completely defeated before Jesus appears to save them http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/
    Thanks for posting that link. Very interesting indeed.
    An important line in this article:

    "The reality is that the Islamic State is Islamic. Very Islamic."
    I know very little about Islam, but I do know about belief in God. So I know that those who do not understand belief in God cannot understand Islam.
    Very true.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,058

    I've been invited to a function next week at the Russian Embassy. Should I go?

    Are your particulars in order :) ?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,371

    Cyclefree said:

    Danny565 said:

    MTimT said:

    taffys said:

    ''I fear it's becoming ever clearer that the West is weak, and scared, and that ultimately ISIS will win.''

    Scared maybe, weak no.

    100,000 well armed well supported Western troops would go through ISIS for a short cut. Add 100,000 Russians and its game over.

    I think its more 'feeling guilty' than either of the above.

    And do they then just stay forever?


    Ultimately, one has to address the grievances in Sunni areas on both Iraq and Syria if ISIS is to have no sanctuary and support in the long term. Perhaps Biden was not so wrong to suggest carving up Iraq into its constituent parts. Perhaps we should add Syria into the mix to create new state borders more reflective of ethhic, cultural and religious reality.

    While I hate identity politics within Western states, sometimes it is the obvious way to solve internecine problems.
    Agreed. Although it will invite the tiresome talk of "colonialism", part of me does think the West needs to take it upon ourselves to redraw the map in that part of the world, into countries that will make for a more stable settlement in the long run.
    Well, it's not as if self-government has worked out well, has it?

    Redrawing states on the basis of ethnic/religious lines is pretty much what happened in Europe after both World Wars: either boundaries were redrawn or populations moved or both. In the end that may be the only way forward in the Middle East if the people there can't live in peace with themselves, never mind anyone else.
    Are you also proposing the redrawing of Israel to include the State of Palestine and the redrawing of Turkey to create Turkish Kurdistan? Both have considerable difficulties in this area, both stand accused of brutal crackdowns.
    They're not in civil wars, and there are other differences. As well you know.

    Besides, this rather old poll (yes, I know) amongst Turkish Kurds indicates that the majority do not want a separate state. Yet the majority of Turks believe they do, which leads to many Turks not wanting to take steps that might relieve Kurdish grievances but are the first steps towards statehood. Instead, Turkey clamps down, worsening the problem.

    http://arsiv.setav.org/Ups/dosya/8504.pdf
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited December 2015
    Oh look, an "Independent" MP who bizarrely will completely follow the SNP line...
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,240

    taffys said:

    ''I fear it's becoming ever clearer that the West is weak, and scared, and that ultimately ISIS will win.''

    Scared maybe, weak no.

    100,000 well armed well supported Western troops would go through ISIS for a short cut. Add 100,000 Russians and its game over.

    I think its more 'feeling guilty' than either of the above.

    And do they then just stay forever?

    As long as it takes.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,994

    I've been invited to a function next week at the Russian Embassy. Should I go?

    I regularly receive emails inviting me to socialise with Russians...
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    RobD said:

    I've been invited to a function next week at the Russian Embassy. Should I go?

    What sort of function? It's always good to hobnob.
    Just avoid the honey trap. You might get to meet some interesting people.
  • Tim_B said:

    It looks like it's over for Tiger.

    After 3 back operations in 15 months, the last one being unexpected, he has nerve damage in his back.

    Watching footage of him glad handing golfers on the range at the tournament he is hosting in the Bahamas this morning he clearly has trouble walking, and he cannot bend over, much less handle even a putter.

    He says he spends his time playing video games. He is normally optimistic about rehabbing and getting back into shape, but yesterday he said he had "nothing to look forward to". I've never seen him so down in a presser. There is no time table for his return, his doctor doesn't how long it will be, or IF it will be.

    If this is the end, surely it's better to be forced out by injuries than retire because you suck.

    Tiger played some of the greatest golf ever seen while in his prime, but Jack Nicklaus is the greatest golfer ever.

    Sevvy?
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    I've been invited to a function next week at the Russian Embassy. Should I go?

    An embassy function usually involves unlimited free booze and all the canapes you can eat plus the chance to chat with some interesting people from different backgrounds, what is there to think about? Just remember to take a doggy bag.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    I've been invited to a function next week at the Russian Embassy. Should I go?

    I regularly receive emails inviting me to socialise with Russians...
    How many of them are over 21 and male?
  • I've been invited to a function next week at the Russian Embassy. Should I go?

    Do you fear a honey trap ?
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Tim_B said:

    Units responding to a 20 victim shooting incident in San Bernardino. - BBC

    FBI, ATF also at the scene - CNN & Fox News

    Fox News saying a dozen killed and many wounded.

    It's early yet so numbers will possibly change.

    Apparently there are between 1 and 3 suspects:

    https://twitter.com/myfoxla/status/672140465353789440
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Cyclefree said:

    MTimT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Completely O/T for @MTimT:

    I showed your Nature article about Bio Security to someone at work in the context of discussion about how to manage operational risk who, as it happens, has a background in the nuclear industry, and they found it very interesting. I think the section you wrote on HROs has some pertinent messages for how to inculcate the right culture re risk in banking and I am thinking of using it further. Of course, people may think I'm mad (or at least madder than normal) making any sort of analogy between biosecurity and banking but I tend to think that if you look at problems from a different perspective you can get worthwhile insights.

    The essence of risk analysis, excellent communications, continual improvement and peer/personal accountability transcends industries - it is a meta model applicable in any industry where the costs of failure are high.

    The nuclear industry is adopting it pretty widely as an approach, with a new organization in Vienna - WINS - leading the charge. https://www.wins.org/index.php?article_id=52

    Also the IAEA, through its International Nuclear Safety Group INSAG, has published on this.
    I'm sure it is but banking has for far too long thought that it did not need to do anything much, let alone the actions you identify. So now that - finally - some focus is being put on it is a good opportunity to introduce some intelligent thinking into the process. Bankers have a tendency to look only at the costs in monetary terms and, while these are bad enough, the real costs are to reputation and trust, which will take years to re-establish. Sure: no-one dies. But the corrosive effect of a loss of trust is pretty real and damaging nonetheless.

    Anyway, thank you for the article.

    By happenstance I also found an article in Nature on banking - http://www.nature.com/news/banking-culture-primes-people-to-cheat-1.16380. This does not surprise me - there are plenty of examples of good people behaving badly if put in the wrong environment. Social pressure, social expectations and social taboos (culture, if you will) are absolutely key.

    Plus - and this is probably more applicable to banking than to your industry - the concepts of shame and guilt are bloody useful. If people felt a bit more guilt and a bit more ashamed about bloody awful behaviour instead of thinking it's something to be praised or no big deal we might – just might – have a bit less of it about.

    Thanks for the link. I'll print it up and read.

    Ultimately, culture ends up being what you reward, either monetarily, with praise, or with promotions.

    If you say you want something, but reward something else, you'll always get something else, regardless of how much your people want to do good or do the right thing.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    I've been invited to a function next week at the Russian Embassy. Should I go?

    Watch Sneakers first...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,575
    edited December 2015
    perdix said:

    HYUFD said:

    Evening Standard reports Sadiq Khan will vote against airstrikes with Corbyn

    Sympathisers in London will like that.

    With Goldsmith voting for a courageous act of political calculation by Khan given London has an above average share of opponents of strikes
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,280

    Cyclefree said:

    Danny565 said:

    MTimT said:

    taffys said:

    ''I fear it's becoming ever clearer that the West is weak, and scared, and that ultimately ISIS will win.''

    Scared maybe, weak no.

    100,000 well armed well supported Western troops would go through ISIS for a short cut. Add 100,000 Russians and its game over.

    I think its more 'feeling guilty' than either of the above.

    And do they then just stay forever?


    Ultimately, one has to address the grievances in Sunni areas on both Iraq and Syria if ISIS is to have no sanctuary and support in the long term. Perhaps Biden was not so wrong to suggest carving up Iraq into its constituent parts. Perhaps we should add Syria into the mix to create new state borders more reflective of ethhic, cultural and religious reality.

    While I hate identity politics within Western states, sometimes it is the obvious way to solve internecine problems.
    Agreed. Although it will invite the tiresome talk of "colonialism", part of me does think the West needs to take it upon ourselves to redraw the map in that part of the world, into countries that will make for a more stable settlement in the long run.
    Well, it's not as if self-government has worked out well, has it?

    Redrawing states on the basis of ethnic/religious lines is pretty much what happened in Europe after both World Wars: either boundaries were redrawn or populations moved or both. In the end that may be the only way forward in the Middle East if the people there can't live in peace with themselves, never mind anyone else.
    Are you also proposing the redrawing of Israel to include the State of Palestine and the redrawing of Turkey to create Turkish Kurdistan? Both have considerable difficulties in this area, both stand accused of brutal crackdowns.
    I'm not sure what redrawing of boundaries you have in mind. I certainly don't favour expelling Israeli Arabs from Israel, for instance. And like pretty much everyone I think it would be good to get the Palestinian issue resolved in a stable, peaceful and sustainable way in the interests of both the Palestinians and the Israelis.

    But I was largely focused on the issues that currently exist in relation to Iraq and Syria and on which Mr Jessop has come up with some tentative proposals.

  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    I've been invited to a function next week at the Russian Embassy. Should I go?


    It'll be fun. Do you like vodka?
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Tim_B said:

    It looks like it's over for Tiger.

    After 3 back operations in 15 months, the last one being unexpected, he has nerve damage in his back.

    Watching footage of him glad handing golfers on the range at the tournament he is hosting in the Bahamas this morning he clearly has trouble walking, and he cannot bend over, much less handle even a putter.

    He says he spends his time playing video games. He is normally optimistic about rehabbing and getting back into shape, but yesterday he said he had "nothing to look forward to". I've never seen him so down in a presser. There is no time table for his return, his doctor doesn't how long it will be, or IF it will be.

    If this is the end, surely it's better to be forced out by injuries than retire because you suck.

    Tiger played some of the greatest golf ever seen while in his prime, but Jack Nicklaus is the greatest golfer ever.

    Sheer longevity is a requirement for being the GOAT. I mean, you have to be very very good also but you also need to last a very long time being competitive at the top level. Tom Brady may be another example of this.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    MP_SE said:

    Tim_B said:

    Units responding to a 20 victim shooting incident in San Bernardino. - BBC

    FBI, ATF also at the scene - CNN & Fox News

    Fox News saying a dozen killed and many wounded.

    It's early yet so numbers will possibly change.

    Apparently there are between 1 and 3 suspects:

    https://twitter.com/myfoxla/status/672140465353789440
    They are apparently wearing masks and body armor.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Oh heck - Joe Biden is to address the Ukrainian parliament next week. What could possibly go wrong?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,280
    MTimT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MTimT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Completely O/T for @MTimT:

    The essence of risk analysis, excellent communications, continual improvement and peer/personal accountability transcends industries - it is a meta model applicable in any industry where the costs of failure are high.

    The nuclear industry is adopting it pretty widely as an approach, with a new organization in Vienna - WINS - leading the charge. https://www.wins.org/index.php?article_id=52

    Also the IAEA, through its International Nuclear Safety Group INSAG, has published on this.
    I'm sure it is but banking has for far too long thought that it did not need to do anything much, let alone the actions you identify. So now that - finally - some focus is being put on it is a good opportunity to introduce some intelligent thinking into the process. Bankers have a tendency to look only at the costs in monetary terms and, while these are bad enough, the real costs are to reputation and trust, which will take years to re-establish. Sure: no-one dies. But the corrosive effect of a loss of trust is pretty real and damaging nonetheless.

    Anyway, thank you for the article.

    By happenstance I also found an article in Nature on banking - http://www.nature.com/news/banking-culture-primes-people-to-cheat-1.16380. This does not surprise me - there are plenty of examples of good people behaving badly if put in the wrong environment. Social pressure, social expectations and social taboos (culture, if you will) are absolutely key.

    Plus - and this is probably more applicable to banking than to your industry - the concepts of shame and guilt are bloody useful. If people felt a bit more guilt and a bit more ashamed about bloody awful behaviour instead of thinking it's something to be praised or no big deal we might – just might – have a bit less of it about.

    Thanks for the link. I'll print it up and read.

    Ultimately, culture ends up being what you reward, either monetarily, with praise, or with promotions.

    If you say you want something, but reward something else, you'll always get something else, regardless of how much your people want to do good or do the right thing.
    Quite so. Despite all the fine words and actions at the moment, the acid test for any bank will be when a high revenue earner misbehaves. Will he (and it usually is a "he") be sacked? Banks have flunked that test in the past.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited December 2015
    3 confirmed shooters active, armed with rifles, police confirm.

    An SUV left the complex after the shooting began. Police say occupants are 'persons of interest.

    Bomb squad attempting to neutralise a suspicious device in 1 of the buildings. Robot on its way.
This discussion has been closed.