Five Finger Death Punch are great live (I saw them at Download a few years back) US Metalheads seem more capable of being proudly patriotic, though Maiden are pretty close. I saw Maiden at Sonisphere a couple of years back too: they had a simulated WW1 airbattle for the interlude (The RFC won of course!)
I'm not entirely sure that Eddie the Head is as "patriotic" as you think.
Just the opposite (hint - there's a reason he's a skeleton).
I wonder which of the following things may have happened by the end of the week;
channel tunnel closed Schengen suspended Cameron arguing Paris incident shows need for more surveillance powers Diverse EU functionaries arguing Paris incident shows need for 'more Europe'
Pan-Euopean police networks and arrest warrants are one advantage that the EU brings. We need to co-operate with our neighbours to defeat these pan national neighbours.
Indeed the suspension of Schengen makes some of Daves renegotiations more likely to be successful.
A lot of hysteria over this. A horrendous attack in Paris does not mean that ISIS is going to be taking over Downing Street or that every Muslim in the UK is going to be a suicide bomber. Yes, it's horrible that 128 have died but 15 times as many will die in road traffic accidents this year. We give terrorism far more coverage and allow it to affect our lives far more than it deserves (which, of course, is the terrorists' aim)
The head in the sand approach has worked so well up to now, hasn't it?
You are assuming that a lack of visible action = no action.
Consider - the radical Muslim lot in this country are utterly convinced that their ranks are full of spies. Might be paranoia, but something makes them think that they are being betrayed all the time...
Oh I suspect that a number of those Muslim groups that pop up with depressing frequency have been infiltrated quite thoroughly.
But the challenge to ideas needs to happen out in the open and it hasn't, or not often enough.
We might find all this 'infiltration' very comforting, but consider that the killers of Lee Rigby were known to the security services. The 7-7 bombers too. At what point does state involvement in terror groups need to be questioned?
I think the fear of being challenged as racist inhibits a lot of sensible anti terrorist actions involving Moslems. There's read across in grooming of young white girls too. It's strange that it doesn't seem to inhibit police actions against the black community in the same way, maybe because the black community is longer standing and more integrated.
It is hard tell the point at which the disorganized nutters you are watching are about to become a real threat. The killers of Lee Rigby were candidates for a mental health program - they murdered someone pretty much at random in the street. The fact that he was a soldier was almost and accident.
Police estimate circa 450 radicalised muslims have returned to the UK from Syria.
(Source Telegraph)
How do they define "radicalised" ?
You would have to ask our counter terrorism units - I am not sure what definition they are using and the Telegraph does not elaborate.
Scratches head at what point you are trying to make though.
Because a pile of UK muslims who have come back from Syria aren't ISIS.
Generally, the ones who the police are aware of aren't the ones to worry about. If they're educated and eloquent and have changed their views, they can actually be really useful - cf, Majiid Nawaaz
Thing is that people are missing. Border controls were reinstated yesterday and as such these people were caught in transit. What they needed to do was catch them in transit on the way to the target. Had we not had Schengen then it is entirely possible that at least some might have been stopped on the way.
How would they have known to stop them, were they looking for them already?
They are always looking. That's their bloody job and the whole point of a security check point. .
In other words, no, they weren't looking for them and there's no reason to think they'd have stopped them.
A minor irony of Mr Dair making this point is that central to the thesis of Multiculturalism is that the "home culture" is actually bad. Under New Labour this was made clear to be English culture. Welsh, Scottish and Irish nationalism was just wonderful in all their manifestations....
I can assure you that Labour find Scottish culture in Scotland every bit as bad as they find English culture in England.
I think that you haven't seen the full extent of the "English nationalism is evil" comedy that Labour politicians have tried to push. Has a Labour politician ever suggested that flying the Saltire should be banned, for instance?
Yes!
Lol yes.
Thrice yes and yes again. They just spent two years telling us this.
I missed that. Who said flying the Saltire should be banned? Have you got any links that's absolutely shocking.
Incidentally from my flat (in Acton) I have a view of the Wembley arch. It's currently lit up with the red, white and blue of the tricolor.
Wow that will help
My Facebook is filled up with people changing their profile pictures to include the tricolor. People seems to think that they must do something.
I have done the same. It is meaningless in any real practical sense of course and will change nothing but since I have a dozen or more French friends it is a way of showing that I do actually care about them. Consider it an electronic hug.
I'm sure the crowd at Wembley on Tuseday night will show their solidarity
A respectful minutes silence, then a robust thrashing of the frogs by Mr Vardy please!
I shall react to these attacks by visiting trendy bars and cafes, going to football matches and heavy metal concerts (Download has a splendid line up in June). I shall treat terrorist threats with the contempt that they have earned.
You a metal head Fox?
Now I know why I think you are an ok sort of guy :-)
I have diverse musical taste*, and have been to Download on a number of occasions. I missed the Eagles of Death Metal last year though:
Rammstein headlining on Friday (possibly the best European metal band ever) followed by Black Sabbath with Ozzy for the last time in the UK then Iron Maiden on Sunday headlining. Best festival line up of the year!
*I am very fond of Northern Soul and Roots Reggae too.
Likewise I have varied tastes.
Very fond of Ozzy's works and probably my favourite band of all is Iron Maiden.
Last couple of days I have been listening to Five Finger Death Punch .... and 2pac :-)
Five Finger Death Punch are great live (I saw them at Download a few years back) US Metalheads seem more capable of being proudly patriotic, though Maiden are pretty close. I saw Maiden at Sonisphere a couple of years back too: they had a simulated WW1 airbattle for the interlude (The RFC won of course!)
"It targeted the capital of prostitution and obscenity, the carrier of the banner of the Cross in Europe: Paris." ... "[They also targeted] the Bataclan Conference Center, where hundreds of apostates had gathered in a profligate prostitution party" ...
These people reeeeally need to get laid.
A long thread to catch up on after a busy day!
A martyr is someone who dies for their faith, not one who kills for it. One of many things that the Islamists have wrong.
They do seem to have a very confused attitude to sex. If Allah hates fornication, prostitution, etc on earth then why would he tolerate it in heaven? The very idea of 72 virgins (with sexual favours) for wiping out harlots is rather self contradictory.
Most religions are a method of control over large numbers of people.
Islam does not fit this profile. It is a Warlord's method of promoting his plans of conquest and rewarding those who support his aims.
Once you understand that, Islam makes a great deal of sense.
I sort of agree. In the West, church and monarchy competed for the greater control of the populace using the afterlife and force of arms as their weapons. Islam is church and monarchy in cohorts, which is why democracy has little chance of prevailing where Islam dominates.
Five Finger Death Punch are great live (I saw them at Download a few years back) US Metalheads seem more capable of being proudly patriotic, though Maiden are pretty close. I saw Maiden at Sonisphere a couple of years back too: they had a simulated WW1 airbattle for the interlude (The RFC won of course!)
I'm not entirely sure that Eddie the Head is as "patriotic" as you think.
Just the opposite (hint - there's a reason he's a skeleton).
I am quite familiar with Iron Maidens work!
Like 5FDP Maiden and Sabbath are hard on the politicians who bring war (I would cite Sabbaths classic "War Pigs"), but like their unfashionably working class audience very supportive of our troops. There are reasons why there are few lefties at Download compared with Latitude!
"It targeted the capital of prostitution and obscenity, the carrier of the banner of the Cross in Europe: Paris." ... "[They also targeted] the Bataclan Conference Center, where hundreds of apostates had gathered in a profligate prostitution party" ...
These people reeeeally need to get laid.
A long thread to catch up on after a busy day!
A martyr is someone who dies for their faith, not one who kills for it. One of many things that the Islamists have wrong.
They do seem to have a very confused attitude to sex. If Allah hates fornication, prostitution, etc on earth then why would he tolerate it in heaven? The very idea of 72 virgins (with sexual favours) for wiping out harlots is rather self contradictory.
Most religions are a method of control over large numbers of people.
Islam does not fit this profile. It is a Warlord's method of promoting his plans of conquest and rewarding those who support his aims.
Once you understand that, Islam makes a great deal of sense.
For years I've wondered why the 99% of peace loving Muslims don't organise marches or protests. It's either they can't be arsed or through fear or intimidation, as if the Stasi will report them for so much as suggesting it.
I'd love to see tens of thousands of Muslim/British Asians marching to express their disgust or disappointment, it would do everybody the world of good.
Thing is that people are missing. Border controls were reinstated yesterday and as such these people were caught in transit. What they needed to do was catch them in transit on the way to the target. Had we not had Schengen then it is entirely possible that at least some might have been stopped on the way.
How would they have known to stop them, were they looking for them already?
They are always looking. That's their bloody job and the whole point of a security check point. .
In other words, no, they weren't looking for them and there's no reason to think they'd have stopped them.
A ridiculous argument. Why have airport security? They are not looking for anyone in particular either it is purely another defensive barrier. Why do they have security at public buildings.. It's just a defensive barrier.
Take it away and it just becomes easier all round.
I can't even believe I am even having this conversation with someone normally safely ensconced ..... In Japan.
A minor irony of Mr Dair making this point is that central to the thesis of Multiculturalism is that the "home culture" is actually bad. Under New Labour this was made clear to be English culture. Welsh, Scottish and Irish nationalism was just wonderful in all their manifestations....
I can assure you that Labour find Scottish culture in Scotland every bit as bad as they find English culture in England.
I think that you haven't seen the full extent of the "English nationalism is evil" comedy that Labour politicians have tried to push. Has a Labour politician ever suggested that flying the Saltire should be banned, for instance?
Yes!
Lol yes.
Thrice yes and yes again. They just spent two years telling us this.
I missed that. Who said flying the Saltire should be banned? Have you got any links that's absolutely shocking.
Police estimate circa 450 radicalised muslims have returned to the UK from Syria.
(Source Telegraph)
How do they define "radicalised" ?
You would have to ask our counter terrorism units - I am not sure what definition they are using and the Telegraph does not elaborate.
Scratches head at what point you are trying to make though.
Because a pile of UK muslims who have come back from Syria aren't ISIS.
Generally, the ones who the police are aware of aren't the ones to worry about. If they're educated and eloquent and have changed their views, they can actually be really useful - cf, Majiid Nawaaz
Dear god......
where to start???
ok, You must be aware that some people that have come back to their home countries from Syria, were known to authorities and then went on to make attacks
Including at least one of those involved last night I am hearing.
Five Finger Death Punch are great live (I saw them at Download a few years back) US Metalheads seem more capable of being proudly patriotic, though Maiden are pretty close. I saw Maiden at Sonisphere a couple of years back too: they had a simulated WW1 airbattle for the interlude (The RFC won of course!)
I'm not entirely sure that Eddie the Head is as "patriotic" as you think.
Just the opposite (hint - there's a reason he's a skeleton).
I am quite familiar with Iron Maidens work!
Like 5FDP Maiden and Sabbath are hard on the politicians who bring war (I would cite Sabbaths classic "War Pigs"), but like their unfashionably working class audience very supportive of our troops. There are reasons why there are few lefties at Download compared with Latitude!
Supporting troops is not patriotism when it is partially (or perhaps completely) a sympathy with the use of troops of fodder to promote the elite's aims and conquest.
There is a huge difference between American soldier worship and Maiden's empathy with The Trooper sent to die to make rich people richer.
Bhuddism is not perfect, but compare events in Burma to the Middle East. Daw Aung Sun Suu Kyi led a peaceful campaign and now is in control of the Burmese Parliament. That is the real geo-political event of the week, a real Mandela moment.
A minor irony of Mr Dair making this point is that central to the thesis of Multiculturalism is that the "home culture" is actually bad. Under New Labour this was made clear to be English culture. Welsh, Scottish and Irish nationalism was just wonderful in all their manifestations....
I can assure you that Labour find Scottish culture in Scotland every bit as bad as they find English culture in England.
I think that you haven't seen the full extent of the "English nationalism is evil" comedy that Labour politicians have tried to push. Has a Labour politician ever suggested that flying the Saltire should be banned, for instance?
Yes!
Lol yes.
Thrice yes and yes again. They just spent two years telling us this.
I missed that. Who said flying the Saltire should be banned? Have you got any links that's absolutely shocking.
At least they weren't claiming or implying that only racists fly the saltire which is the response we get to our flags.
That was just the first one that came up on google. I'd be reasonably confident of finding such statements from Labourites.
John McTernan, for example, has made some utterly ridiculous comments on Scottish culture but it's late on a Saturday and hardly worth the effort digging it up.
In general, this is the sort of crap Scotland put up with for two years. It's why No went from 70% to 55% and why No is on a long term loser.
I wonder which of the following things may have happened by the end of the week;
channel tunnel closed Schengen suspended Cameron arguing Paris incident shows need for more surveillance powers Diverse EU functionaries arguing Paris incident shows need for 'more Europe'
Pan-Euopean police networks and arrest warrants are one advantage that the EU brings. We need to co-operate with our neighbours to defeat these pan national neighbours.
Indeed the suspension of Schengen makes some of Daves renegotiations more likely to be successful.
Cooperating with other countries to combat crime sounds awfully like what Interpol do.
Thing is that people are missing. Border controls were reinstated yesterday and as such these people were caught in transit. What they needed to do was catch them in transit on the way to the target. Had we not had Schengen then it is entirely possible that at least some might have been stopped on the way.
Schengen is dead, finished, kaput.
Just like Merkel who should have already resigned and slunk off the world stage never to be heard of again except when people talk of her folly.
Five Finger Death Punch are great live (I saw them at Download a few years back) US Metalheads seem more capable of being proudly patriotic, though Maiden are pretty close. I saw Maiden at Sonisphere a couple of years back too: they had a simulated WW1 airbattle for the interlude (The RFC won of course!)
I'm not entirely sure that Eddie the Head is as "patriotic" as you think.
Just the opposite (hint - there's a reason he's a skeleton).
I am quite familiar with Iron Maidens work!
Like 5FDP Maiden and Sabbath are hard on the politicians who bring war (I would cite Sabbaths classic "War Pigs"), but like their unfashionably working class audience very supportive of our troops. There are reasons why there are few lefties at Download compared with Latitude!
Supporting troops is not patriotism when it is partially (or perhaps completely) a sympathy with the use of troops of fodder to promote the elite's aims and conquest.
There is a huge difference between American soldier worship and Maiden's empathy with The Trooper sent to die to make rich people richer.
Five Finger Death Punch are great live (I saw them at Download a few years back) US Metalheads seem more capable of being proudly patriotic, though Maiden are pretty close. I saw Maiden at Sonisphere a couple of years back too: they had a simulated WW1 airbattle for the interlude (The RFC won of course!)
I'm not entirely sure that Eddie the Head is as "patriotic" as you think.
Just the opposite (hint - there's a reason he's a skeleton).
I am quite familiar with Iron Maidens work!
Like 5FDP Maiden and Sabbath are hard on the politicians who bring war (I would cite Sabbaths classic "War Pigs"), but like their unfashionably working class audience very supportive of our troops. There are reasons why there are few lefties at Download compared with Latitude!
Supporting troops is not patriotism when it is partially (or perhaps completely) a sympathy with the use of troops of fodder to promote the elite's aims and conquest.
There is a huge difference between American soldier worship and Maiden's empathy with The Trooper sent to die to make rich people richer.
That is a very strange interpretation of the Trooper:
I wonder which of the following things may have happened by the end of the week;
channel tunnel closed Schengen suspended Cameron arguing Paris incident shows need for more surveillance powers Diverse EU functionaries arguing Paris incident shows need for 'more Europe'
Pan-Euopean police networks and arrest warrants are one advantage that the EU brings. We need to co-operate with our neighbours to defeat these pan national neighbours.
Indeed the suspension of Schengen makes some of Daves renegotiations more likely to be successful.
Cooperating with other countries to combat crime sounds awfully like what Interpol do.
Pan European arrest warrants help too.
We can pull together with our friends in Europe or we can pull apart. I think that the challenge of Islamist terror is a reason to stay in the EU, not one to leave.
Bhuddism is not perfect, but compare events in Burma to the Middle East. Daw Aung Sun Suu Kyi led a peaceful campaign and now is in control of the Burmese Parliament. That is the real geo-political event of the week, a real Mandela moment.
I hope you are right but it's very early days
Aung San Suu Kyi's government is going to be, objectively, awful. It's a step forward for Myanmar, but let's pretend it's gone to a fully fledged democracy. Myanmar's Muslim minority still have a lot to fear from the Buddhist government.
Five Finger Death Punch are great live (I saw them at Download a few years back) US Metalheads seem more capable of being proudly patriotic, though Maiden are pretty close. I saw Maiden at Sonisphere a couple of years back too: they had a simulated WW1 airbattle for the interlude (The RFC won of course!)
I'm not entirely sure that Eddie the Head is as "patriotic" as you think.
Just the opposite (hint - there's a reason he's a skeleton).
I am quite familiar with Iron Maidens work!
Like 5FDP Maiden and Sabbath are hard on the politicians who bring war (I would cite Sabbaths classic "War Pigs"), but like their unfashionably working class audience very supportive of our troops. There are reasons why there are few lefties at Download compared with Latitude!
Supporting troops is not patriotism when it is partially (or perhaps completely) a sympathy with the use of troops of fodder to promote the elite's aims and conquest.
There is a huge difference between American soldier worship and Maiden's empathy with The Trooper sent to die to make rich people richer.
That is a very strange interpretation of the Trooper:
Which is clearly about the charge of the light brigade.
"But on this battlefield no one wins"
You have a very... interesting take on the song. I don't see it. At best for your viewpoint the song is about the futility of war but I feel fairly sound on seeing this, and much of their other stuff, about a soldiers lot being used as a pawn in a bigger game.
Dr Who tonight seems wholly inappropriate and disrespectful to those who died and were injured in Paris. The BBC just seem incapable of doing anything right. They could have postponed this episode as a mark of respect. Dreadful decision making.
As a Spurs supporter and no great respecter of the abilities of many BBC "journalists", I was taken aback when BBC London described the recently deceased Warren Mitchell (who was a regular at WHL) as a lifelong West Ham fan thus confusing him with his alter ego Alf Garnett. All my BBC prejudices confirmed with a sense of outrage thrown in.
The Catholics were responsible for the slaughter of the Crusades.
Are Quakers Catholic?
Doubt it. The Catholics don't have an oats based breakfast cereal.
Quaker Oats have never had any connection with the Quaker sect, and the founders of the Quaker oats company were German, though I am not sure if Catholic.
Thing is that people are missing. Border controls were reinstated yesterday and as such these people were caught in transit. What they needed to do was catch them in transit on the way to the target. Had we not had Schengen then it is entirely possible that at least some might have been stopped on the way.
How would they have known to stop them, were they looking for them already?
They are always looking. That's their bloody job and the whole point of a security check point. .
In other words, no, they weren't looking for them and there's no reason to think they'd have stopped them.
A ridiculous argument. Why have airport security? They are not looking for anyone in particular either it is purely another defensive barrier. Why do they have security at public buildings.. It's just a defensive barrier.
Take it away and it just becomes easier all round.
I can't even believe I am even having this conversation with someone normally safely ensconced ..... In Japan.
Japanese customs and immigration don't have magical sinister-intention-detection powers either. They check for valid passports and known suspects, look for things in baggage, things like that.
A minor irony of Mr Dair making this point is that central to the thesis of Multiculturalism is that the "home culture" is actually bad. Under New Labour this was made clear to be English culture. Welsh, Scottish and Irish nationalism was just wonderful in all their manifestations....
I can assure you that Labour find Scottish culture in Scotland every bit as bad as they find English culture in England.
I think that you haven't seen the full extent of the "English nationalism is evil" comedy that Labour politicians have tried to push. Has a Labour politician ever suggested that flying the Saltire should be banned, for instance?
Yes!
Lol yes.
Thrice yes and yes again. They just spent two years telling us this.
I missed that. Who said flying the Saltire should be banned? Have you got any links that's absolutely shocking.
At least they weren't claiming or implying that only racists fly the saltire which is the response we get to our flags.
That was just the first one that came up on google. I'd be reasonably confident of finding such statements from Labourites.
John McTernan, for example, has made some utterly ridiculous comments on Scottish culture but it's late on a Saturday and hardly worth the effort digging it up.
In general, this is the sort of crap Scotland put up with for two years. It's why No went from 70% to 55% and why No is on a long term loser.
No got their strongest support from Scottish Tories, not Scottish Labour and there is no evidence Scotland will inevitably become independent
Comments
Just the opposite (hint - there's a reason he's a skeleton).
Indeed the suspension of Schengen makes some of Daves renegotiations more likely to be successful.
Generally, the ones who the police are aware of aren't the ones to worry about. If they're educated and eloquent and have changed their views, they can actually be really useful - cf, Majiid Nawaaz
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34822666
Like 5FDP Maiden and Sabbath are hard on the politicians who bring war (I would cite Sabbaths classic "War Pigs"), but like their unfashionably working class audience very supportive of our troops. There are reasons why there are few lefties at Download compared with Latitude!
Take it away and it just becomes easier all round.
I can't even believe I am even having this conversation with someone normally safely ensconced ..... In Japan.
At least they weren't claiming or implying that only racists fly the saltire which is the response we get to our flags.
http://www.thecommentator.com/article/223/so_mehdi_hasan_can_i_call_you_an_extremist_or_at_least_a_cab
where to start???
ok, You must be aware that some people that have come back to their home countries from Syria, were known to authorities and then went on to make attacks
Including at least one of those involved last night I am hearing.
There is a huge difference between American soldier worship and Maiden's empathy with The Trooper sent to die to make rich people richer.
Police have searched the hotel in the 15th district of Paris - but have found nothing.
The intervention was triggered by a tourist who thought he had seen something suspicious, the BBC's Clea Caulcutt in Paris reports.
John McTernan, for example, has made some utterly ridiculous comments on Scottish culture but it's late on a Saturday and hardly worth the effort digging it up.
In general, this is the sort of crap Scotland put up with for two years. It's why No went from 70% to 55% and why No is on a long term loser.
40 years of the mighty Maiden !
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/i/iron+maiden/the+trooper_20068036.html
Which is clearly about the charge of the light brigade.
new thread
We can pull together with our friends in Europe or we can pull apart. I think that the challenge of Islamist terror is a reason to stay in the EU, not one to leave.
You have a very... interesting take on the song. I don't see it. At best for your viewpoint the song is about the futility of war but I feel fairly sound on seeing this, and much of their other stuff, about a soldiers lot being used as a pawn in a bigger game.