Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Theresa May sends a strong reminder that she’s still in the

1235

Comments

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    rcs1000 said:

    There is no lessening of standards, and you are still required to have a PCO license and commercial insurance.

    I'm pretty sure we can fix this with some kind of p2p marketplace.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,449
    Dave talking a lot of sense here, but I don't know the solution. I speak from experience since my professional name is different to my given name.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656

    JEO said:

    Sean_F said:

    Alex Massie is scarcely a right wing commentator.

    Indeed - but he is a Tory. The point being that the claim May has been attacked solely by metropolitan lefties is demonstrably false.

    No one has argued that. Kirkup is also on the right, but he's still one of the metropolitan liberal types.

    Look, I don't have a problem with people taking a pro-high immigration position and arguing their case. What I detest is the way such people call ANY argument towards a low immigration position as "divisive" and "inflammatory". They are trying to silence the other side of the debate, and then act as if they are being morally superior by doing it.

    They are expressing an opinion. The only way a debate can be silenced is if there is no response. The debate about immigration - which, apparently, has been repressed and silenced - has been raging in the country's newspapers and on its television screens for at least 15 years now.

    Perhaps "silenced" is the wrong word but "delegitimised" is not. They are doing exactly the same thing as the Jezlamists calling the Blairites in the party "Red Tories". It is not about having a different opinion and arguing against the other side. It is about trying to smear the other side of the debate so people don't listen to them.

    It is also obviously dishonest. There was all of six sentences in a long speech criticising the effects of mass immigration. She also made clear that it wasn't immigrants or immigration that was the problem, but when the scale was too high. And not only did she not blame immigrants themselves, she even sympathised with them in the prior paragraph. And she also castigated the far right extremists. There is literally nothing more she could have said in that speech to appeal to the "it's divisive!" brigade other than not voicing her opinion at all. These people don't want the debate to be nicer. They just don't want anyone voicing a contrary opinion.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @stephenkb: "The tanks are in the kitchen," observes gloomy Labour source. #cpc15
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Pulpstar said:

    Can anyone explain to me why we're still short of the right types of skilled immigrants we need whilst we're at record levels of immigration.

    This is the circle both myself and half the general population are trying to square up. Surely with 350k net migration we can get enough doctors/engineers or whatever into that lot ?!

    Nationally we are short of about 1 million Social care workers over the next decade according to a Senior NS HR person that I saw speaking the other week.

    Leicester city now has just frictional unemployment, just 7 000 at present, and the rate in the county and Rutland is even lower.

    So yes. We either need quite a lot of semi and unskilled migration or we need to have other approaches such as robot slaves.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    JeremyCorbyn4PM ‏@JeremyCorbyn4PM · 7m7 minutes ago
    We won't fight name calling by returning in kind, but we will challenge the cynical burying of debate #CPC15

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQten5lWEAU8NDC.jpg
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Stephen Bush
    "The tanks are in the kitchen," observes gloomy Labour source. #cpc15
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256


    IR35 is aimed at people who are effectively employees and have none of the attributes of a self employed business. Uber drivers provide their vehicle and accept the risk of not getting customers.

    Is that piece of junk legislation still on the Statute Book?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,137
    Mr. Antifrank, that may have been what I saw, albeit in chunks [given it was on Twitter].
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,449
    I have to say, this is probably the best speech Dave has given since 2007.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Holy crap

    Technically Ron
    Who ever is doing the captions for the Tory party conference no longer gives a shit http://t.co/nFcrph41lT
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    David Cameron...this is what a Prime Minister looks like...lefties please take note...
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @IsabelHardman: The Tories have got exactly what they wanted this week. The contrast between their party of government conference and Labour's is huge.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,302
    Meanwhile Vlad has launched cruise missiles? http://www.itv.com/news/story/2015-10-07/syria-and-russia-carry-out-co-ordinated-assault-on-syrian-rebels/

    Ships in Caspian Sea fire rockets to Syria.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,918
    Listening to Cameron now. Wow. The conference finally comes alive, here is someone right at the top of their game. Don't think I've seen him so confident since 2005 and the leadership election.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    MaxPB said:


    The CSU is also in real trouble, AfD are surging in Bavaria and are threatening to limit the CSU to under 5% of the national vote. It would be a huge defeat for Merkel to lose the CSU alliance.

    Presumably the CSU does pretty well in the constituency seats - does the 5% threshold still matter to them? I'd assumed it was just for the proportional bit.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,302

    Hmm. Could've sworn I saw a Corbyn tweet denouncing Cameron for smearing him, but it's not there. May've been a parody account (although I thought it was real), or may've been deleted.

    Twitter.com/JeremyCorbyn4PM

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,137
    Dr. Spyn, aye, you're right. I think the Twitter avatar's the same, hence my confusion.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,918

    Holy crap

    Technically Ron
    Who ever is doing the captions for the Tory party conference no longer gives a shit http://t.co/nFcrph41lT

    Surely that's not for real..?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PCollinsTimes: It was serious and a political triumph. https://t.co/jjB8s8Rq24
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,240
    Sandpit said:

    Holy crap

    Technically Ron
    Who ever is doing the captions for the Tory party conference no longer gives a shit http://t.co/nFcrph41lT

    Surely that's not for real..?
    Font looks wrong to me, but IANAE.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MichaelLCrick: I think that's the best conference speech I've heard Cameron give in his ten years as Conservative leader
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,266
    All over for labour now
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:

    @stephenkb: "The tanks are in the kitchen," observes gloomy Labour source. #cpc15

    Both kitchens ?
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,372


    IR35 is aimed at people who are effectively employees and have none of the attributes of a self employed business. Uber drivers provide their vehicle and accept the risk of not getting customers.

    Is that piece of junk legislation still on the Statute Book?
    To be honest I'm not sure, it's a while since I was in the game. But I am sure something with the same effect still applies. Seems fair to me, a lot of highly paid IT people were benefiting from the more advantageous self employed tax regime while effectively being employees. I would have liked to claim my season ticket against tax as well.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,788
    Well this is the tories planning the utter destruction of labour as a party by firmly being on the centre ground

    They might well do it as well.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    antifrank said:

    JeremyCorbyn4PM ‏@JeremyCorbyn4PM · 7m7 minutes ago
    We won't fight name calling by returning in kind, but we will challenge the cynical burying of debate #CPC15

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQten5lWEAU8NDC.jpg

    Is that for real? Surely even Jeremy Corbyn should realise that's a very counter-productive response.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,161
    Sandpit said:

    Holy crap

    Technically Ron
    Who ever is doing the captions for the Tory party conference no longer gives a shit http://t.co/nFcrph41lT

    Surely that's not for real..?
    It's not. Look closely around the letters and you'll see it's been pasted in.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    antifrank said:

    JeremyCorbyn4PM ‏@JeremyCorbyn4PM · 7m7 minutes ago
    We won't fight name calling by returning in kind, but we will challenge the cynical burying of debate #CPC15

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQten5lWEAU8NDC.jpg

    Is that for real? Surely even Jeremy Corbyn should realise that's a very counter-productive response.
    No they will must spit instead.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,750
    Wes Streeting MP ‏@wesstreeting 16s17 seconds ago

    Well, that was an audacious bid for the centre ground by David Cameron. Plenty for us to hold him to over this Parliament. #CPC15

    That's a VERY interesting reaction.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    antifrank said:

    JeremyCorbyn4PM ‏@JeremyCorbyn4PM · 7m7 minutes ago
    We won't fight name calling by returning in kind, but we will challenge the cynical burying of debate #CPC15

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQten5lWEAU8NDC.jpg

    Is that for real? Surely even Jeremy Corbyn should realise that's a very counter-productive response.
    It's on his authenticated twitter feed.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,449

    antifrank said:

    JeremyCorbyn4PM ‏@JeremyCorbyn4PM · 7m7 minutes ago
    We won't fight name calling by returning in kind, but we will challenge the cynical burying of debate #CPC15

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQten5lWEAU8NDC.jpg

    Is that for real? Surely even Jeremy Corbyn should realise that's a very counter-productive response.
    I don't think that is a Labour controlled account, just a Jez fan.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,750
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Holy crap

    Technically Ron
    Who ever is doing the captions for the Tory party conference no longer gives a shit http://t.co/nFcrph41lT

    Surely that's not for real..?
    It's not. Look closely around the letters and you'll see it's been pasted in.
    How could anyone even think it was real :P ?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,449
    antifrank said:

    antifrank said:

    JeremyCorbyn4PM ‏@JeremyCorbyn4PM · 7m7 minutes ago
    We won't fight name calling by returning in kind, but we will challenge the cynical burying of debate #CPC15

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQten5lWEAU8NDC.jpg

    Is that for real? Surely even Jeremy Corbyn should realise that's a very counter-productive response.
    It's on his authenticated twitter feed.
    Is Jez4PM actually him?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,750
    I've not watched or heard a single second of the speech.
    But so far as I can tell Dave is essentially positioning the Tories at the almost exact same point as the US Democrats ?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,137
    Mr. Max, I believe not. It does have a blue tick [ironically :p ]but the bio says it's the former official campaign for him to become leader. Corbyn has his own account.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,449
    Pulpstar said:

    I've not watched or heard a single second of the speech.
    But so far as I can tell Dave is essentially positioning the Tories at the almost exact same point as the US Democrats ?

    Yes, but that is a one nation approach and Dave is a one nation Tory.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256


    IR35 is aimed at people who are effectively employees and have none of the attributes of a self employed business. Uber drivers provide their vehicle and accept the risk of not getting customers.

    Is that piece of junk legislation still on the Statute Book?
    To be honest I'm not sure, it's a while since I was in the game. But I am sure something with the same effect still applies. Seems fair to me, a lot of highly paid IT people were benefiting from the more advantageous self employed tax regime while effectively being employees. I would have liked to claim my season ticket against tax as well.
    It massively penalised a lot of independent contractors and effectively ended a flexible workforce that was replaced by cheap labour imports from India or contracting work out to big US consultancies.

    Gordon pronounced that it would stop tax fiddles and raise over £100m a year. After several years an FOI appeared.... " FOI data from HMRC, between 02-03 and 07-08 a total of £9.2m in tax has been directly attributed to IR35."

    Nice one Gordon ....
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Pulpstar said:

    I've not watched or heard a single second of the speech.
    But so far as I can tell Dave is essentially positioning the Tories at the almost exact same point as the US Democrats ?

    Not wrt to unions and organised labour.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:



    Surely Uber is just an agency that finds you thé work.

    That's their argument. Two responses:

    (1) Customers think they are buying Uber's service in the sense of them providing the drivers rather than just sourcing independent contractors. So they are relying on the Uber trust - there's an element of misrepresentation.

    (2) Drivers who earn the majority of their income from Uber are the same as "independent contractors" working for one company. It's a tax dodge.

    Fundamentally Uber needs to take responsibility for its actions rather than hiding behind a clever structure. They want to participate in the market: fine. But they shouldn't be allowed to leech off it.
    I think I have a different view of employment law. (1) not sure what the customers have to do with it. If you hire a temp from an agency you are buying the agency's services, but it is perfectly possible for the temp to be on a self employed basis. (2) many Uber drivers are part time, and I don't think HMRC would see the arrangement as a way to circumvent employment law. The driver is after all responsible for providing their own tools of the trade (the car) and can decide whether or not to accept a particular job.

    But I agree with you on ensuring that vehicles are roadworthy, drivers are insured for hire and reward, and have had DBS checks.
    Uber drivers in London need to sign up with TFL in the same way minicab drivers do. There is no lessening of standards, and you are still required to have a PCO license and commercial insurance.
    Didn't know that. .... .
    'Prize Plum. It goes well with magnolia.'
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @janemerrick23: Labour's gigantic problem: why did I, from a Liverpool comp, who voted for Blair & never voted Tory, agree nearly every word of PM's speech?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,015
    Not watching Cameron's speech but clearly it's going down very well with some. Can anyone actually point to anything interesting that he's actually said though?
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626


    IR35 is aimed at people who are effectively employees and have none of the attributes of a self employed business. Uber drivers provide their vehicle and accept the risk of not getting customers.

    Is that piece of junk legislation still on the Statute Book?
    To be honest I'm not sure, it's a while since I was in the game. But I am sure something with the same effect still applies. Seems fair to me, a lot of highly paid IT people were benefiting from the more advantageous self employed tax regime while effectively being employees. I would have liked to claim my season ticket against tax as well.
    Having just been audited by HMRC, I can attest that it most certainly is still on the statute book.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,302
    Cameron has claimed he was heir to Blair...

    Missed all of the speech.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756

    Not watching Cameron's speech but clearly it's going down very well with some. Can anyone actually point to anything interesting that he's actually said though?

    Frothers are wetting their pants for sure, it will be Tory Good , Labour Bad and lots of wind.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I've not watched or heard a single second of the speech.
    But so far as I can tell Dave is essentially positioning the Tories at the almost exact same point as the US Democrats ?

    Yes, but that is a one nation approach and Dave is a one nation Tory.
    The US Democrats are quite happy to divide people up into different racial groups.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,302
    malcolmg said:

    Not watching Cameron's speech but clearly it's going down very well with some. Can anyone actually point to anything interesting that he's actually said though?

    Frothers are wetting their pants for sure, it will be Tory Good , Labour Bad and lots of wind.
    and tasteless jokes about pigs.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    malcolmg said:

    Not watching Cameron's speech but clearly it's going down very well with some. Can anyone actually point to anything interesting that he's actually said though?

    Frothers are wetting their pants for sure, it will be Tory Good , Labour Bad and lots of wind.
    Britain is united - not even a whiff of a mention for another referendum.

    And Corbyn is a *******

  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    malcolmg said:

    Not watching Cameron's speech but clearly it's going down very well with some. Can anyone actually point to anything interesting that he's actually said though?

    Frothers are wetting their pants for sure, it will be Tory Good , Labour Bad and lots of wind.
    Lots of wind?

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/scindependent3-460x290.jpg
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    JEO said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I've not watched or heard a single second of the speech.
    But so far as I can tell Dave is essentially positioning the Tories at the almost exact same point as the US Democrats ?

    Yes, but that is a one nation approach and Dave is a one nation Tory.
    The US Democrats are quite happy to divide people up into different racial groups.
    Not quite happy - that's their entire electoral strategy.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    edmundintokyo,

    I think it does matter. Didn't the FDP drop out of parliament in Germany when they slipped below 5%?
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    watford30 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Not watching Cameron's speech but clearly it's going down very well with some. Can anyone actually point to anything interesting that he's actually said though?

    Frothers are wetting their pants for sure, it will be Tory Good , Labour Bad and lots of wind.
    Lots of wind?

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/scindependent3-460x290.jpg
    Is that James Tiberius Kirk?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756
    Davidson wants Tory cult now. Frothers will love that

    ..........https://twitter.com/BBCScotlandNews/status/651710053133774848
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    4 new Tridents subs confirmed.

    It's hard to see how three or fewer subs could meet the requirements. You'd have to either massively change the requirements, for example by dropping the 'constantly at sea' capability (*), or develop a new delivery mechanism at massive expense (and probably to operate as well).

    (*) Hoping that's what it's called...
    It's the "Continuous at sea" deterrent, FWIW.
    The reality is that 4 sub's give 1 at sea operational and at least 1 at sea training. So generally 2 at sea and available, probably 3 given notice of a crisis.
    To repeat also, the extra cost of renewing Trident is about 15 billion, the cost of new subs. The running costs over the lifetime are currently already with us so the immediate extra cost is just 15 bn over 30 years. But the last construction cost of current submarines can be amortised in the same way. In any evenl it is a lie to say the cost of replacing Trident is 100bn.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    JEO said:

    edmundintokyo,

    I think it does matter. Didn't the FDP drop out of parliament in Germany when they slipped below 5%?

    Unlike the CSU, the FDP don't have a strong local powerbase so they're dependent on the proportional section.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756
    TGOHF said:

    malcolmg said:

    Not watching Cameron's speech but clearly it's going down very well with some. Can anyone actually point to anything interesting that he's actually said though?

    Frothers are wetting their pants for sure, it will be Tory Good , Labour Bad and lots of wind.
    Britain is united - not even a whiff of a mention for another referendum.

    And Corbyn is a *******

    Looks more Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer to me, Tories coming out.

    Cameron: less Britain-bashing, more national pride – our way, the Conservative way, the only way to greater days.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    Sean_F said:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_in_the_Canadian_federal_election,_2015

    O/T Canadian Tories seem to be edging back into the lead. Nanos is the only pollster currently giving a lead to the Liberals, and it's falling.

    The New Democrats seem to have been squeezed into a firm third place.

    Almost certainly be ahead on seats, but it won't be a majority. Question is whether NDP and Liberals will tango.

    If not, Harper may be back.. for a little while.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF said:

    malcolmg said:

    Not watching Cameron's speech but clearly it's going down very well with some. Can anyone actually point to anything interesting that he's actually said though?

    Frothers are wetting their pants for sure, it will be Tory Good , Labour Bad and lots of wind.
    Britain is united - not even a whiff of a mention for another referendum.

    And Corbyn is a *******

    Looks more Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer to me, Tories coming out.

    Cameron: less Britain-bashing, more national pride – our way, the Conservative way, the only way to greater days.
    Could have been a Salmond speech but with Britain replacing Scotland - but he didn't laugh enough at his own jokes.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,296

    JEO said:

    edmundintokyo,

    I think it does matter. Didn't the FDP drop out of parliament in Germany when they slipped below 5%?

    Unlike the CSU, the FDP don't have a strong local powerbase so they're dependent on the proportional section.
    Not checked but I think that if a party wins 3 (?) seats directly elected by FPTP, then the proportionality rules do not apply. The CSU should therefore have no problem.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    MTimT said:

    JEO said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I've not watched or heard a single second of the speech.
    But so far as I can tell Dave is essentially positioning the Tories at the almost exact same point as the US Democrats ?

    Yes, but that is a one nation approach and Dave is a one nation Tory.
    The US Democrats are quite happy to divide people up into different racial groups.
    Not quite happy - that's their entire electoral strategy.
    Americans must find it difficult. You have a left-wing party in thrall to multiculturalism and and a right-wing party that's stark raving mad. No wonder people are fed up with politics over there.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    Cameron laying into Corbyn:

    "My friends, we cannot let that man inflict his security threatening, terrorist sympathising, Britain hating ideology on this country."

    To a standing ovation.

    That was the very least that Cameron could have said about Corbyn and the people who elected him and the people who support him and the people who spit on his behalf.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,842
    I thought Cameron was excellent on religious extremism and ending discrimination.

    Not sure about much of the rest. The Tories are making big promises on immigration, housing and incomes that a decent opposition would be able to hold them to account over. Unfortunately, there isn't one, so the Tories essentially have a free pass.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Remember when Ashcroft's book was going to dominate the conference ?

  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    The Hillary email story is getting more complicated by the day. Now it appears that a second tech company was involved in backing up the data on her server on the Cloud. The significance of that relates to the security of any classified information - no-one at the new company had security clearances to handle such data, and the company is known to have been subject to hacking attacks.

    Once the company found out that it was backing up Hillary's data, it immediately knew it had a problem, and has been fully cooperating since with the Feds.

    Still, none of this is a smoking gun. But it keeps the story alive, keeps Hillary on the defensive, and plays into existing negatives. No good news for team Clinton here.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/10/07/fbi-probe-hillary-clinton-emails-expands-to-second-tech-company/?intcmp=hpbt1
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,362
    edited 2015 07
    JEO said:

    MTimT said:

    JEO said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I've not watched or heard a single second of the speech.
    But so far as I can tell Dave is essentially positioning the Tories at the almost exact same point as the US Democrats ?

    Yes, but that is a one nation approach and Dave is a one nation Tory.
    The US Democrats are quite happy to divide people up into different racial groups.
    Not quite happy - that's their entire electoral strategy.
    Americans must find it difficult. You have a left-wing party in thrall to multiculturalism and and a right-wing party that's stark raving mad. No wonder people are fed up with politics over there.
    As opposed to this country, where we have a left-wing party that's in thrall to multiculturalism AND stark raving mad....

    Excellent speech by Cameron. But it made me wonder - what the feck were Labour doing for 13 years that we still have a shopping list of injustice that Cameron needs to remedy...?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,016

    Cameron laying into Corbyn:

    "My friends, we cannot let that man inflict his security threatening, terrorist sympathising, Britain hating ideology on this country."

    To a standing ovation.

    That was the very least that Cameron could have said about Corbyn and the people who elected him and the people who support him and the people who spit on his behalf.
    Although Corbyn has said, has he not that "he loved this country"
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF said:

    malcolmg said:

    Not watching Cameron's speech but clearly it's going down very well with some. Can anyone actually point to anything interesting that he's actually said though?

    Frothers are wetting their pants for sure, it will be Tory Good , Labour Bad and lots of wind.
    Britain is united - not even a whiff of a mention for another referendum.

    And Corbyn is a *******

    Looks more Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer to me, Tories coming out.

    Cameron: less Britain-bashing, more national pride – our way, the Conservative way, the only way to greater days.
    On yer bike buster.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    HD of this parish passim noted on Twitter that Cameron appeared to abolish LEAs - all schools will be academies...

    JEO said:

    MTimT said:

    JEO said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I've not watched or heard a single second of the speech.
    But so far as I can tell Dave is essentially positioning the Tories at the almost exact same point as the US Democrats ?

    Yes, but that is a one nation approach and Dave is a one nation Tory.
    The US Democrats are quite happy to divide people up into different racial groups.
    Not quite happy - that's their entire electoral strategy.
    Americans must find it difficult. You have a left-wing party in thrall to multiculturalism and and a right-wing party that's stark raving mad. No wonder people are fed up with politics over there.
    As opposed to this country, where we have a left-wing party that's in thrall to multiculturalism AND stark raving mad....

    Excellent speech by Cameron. But it made me wonder - what the feck were Labour doing for 13 years that we still have a shopping list of injustice that Cameron needs to remedy...?
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    TGOHF said:

    Remember when Ashcroft's book was going to dominate the conference ?

    No. What book?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,362

    Cameron laying into Corbyn:

    "My friends, we cannot let that man inflict his security threatening, terrorist sympathising, Britain hating ideology on this country."

    To a standing ovation.

    That was the very least that Cameron could have said about Corbyn and the people who elected him and the people who support him and the people who spit on his behalf.
    Although Corbyn has said, has he not that "he loved this country"
    ....whilst stood in East Germany?
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    Also notice that the government is changing the laws on expats' voting rights to make them lifelong - presumably in the (not necessarily correct) assumption that most of them are Tories.

    Cynically, the other benefit is that it makes it easier for overseas supporters to donate money.

    Less cynically, the actual policy is obviously correct. More and more people are living outside the country they're nationals of, but the world isn't getting any less nationalistic, so it's unusual to be able to vote in the place where you live rather than the place you were born or whatever. (Although the latter would make more sense, IMHO). It's not in anyone's interests to disfranchise huge chunks of the world's population so they only way they can have their say is by buying politicians or setting fire to things.
    I served my country as a diplomat for ten years, and was loaned by HMG to the UN to do inspections in Iraq for 4 years. But because I have been honest about my true domicile, and not kept a fake address in the UK, I no longer have a vote. That strikes me as wrong.

    It used to be that the expatriate vote leaned Tory. I strongly doubt that is still the case nowadays, given how many people from all walks of life now work in Europe and how much easier in general it is to be an expat.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited 2015 07
    Frankly, who believes him that aren't already disciples?

    Cameron laying into Corbyn:

    "My friends, we cannot let that man inflict his security threatening, terrorist sympathising, Britain hating ideology on this country."

    To a standing ovation.

    That was the very least that Cameron could have said about Corbyn and the people who elected him and the people who support him and the people who spit on his behalf.
    Although Corbyn has said, has he not that "he loved this country"
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Cameron mocking Ashcroft in his speech was epic.

    TGOHF said:

    Remember when Ashcroft's book was going to dominate the conference ?

    No. What book?
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF said:

    malcolmg said:

    Not watching Cameron's speech but clearly it's going down very well with some. Can anyone actually point to anything interesting that he's actually said though?

    Frothers are wetting their pants for sure, it will be Tory Good , Labour Bad and lots of wind.
    Britain is united - not even a whiff of a mention for another referendum.

    And Corbyn is a *******

    Looks more Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer to me, Tories coming out.

    Cameron: less Britain-bashing, more national pride – our way, the Conservative way, the only way to greater days.
    LOL, that is a stretch even for you. Goodwin honorable mention rather than full blown award, as you avoided using Hitler's name.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    I think that speech ends any doubt that Cameron will recommend In.

    He also mentioned no ever-closer Union, so presume he's got a paper opt-out from that clause for the UK in any future EU treaty revision. Which will be meaningless.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,015
    SeanT said:

    True story: an Obama-voting American said to a Labour friend of mine the other day, "We'd love Cameron as a Democrat president. What's your problem?"

    Et voila.

    Plenty of moderate conservatives (by British standards) vote Democrat given the alternative they face. I'd also question whether an American really 'gets' Cameron or just sees his media image.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @hugorifkind: I'm also fairly sure you'd never have got a Tory PM making a speech like that if Ukip hadn't sucked the loonies out. Good old Ukip.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    SeanT said:

    Cameron mocking Ashcroft in his speech was epic.

    TGOHF said:

    Remember when Ashcroft's book was going to dominate the conference ?

    No. What book?
    The idea that the book would perpetually damage Cameron, leaving him a "crippled lame duck blah blah" now looks quite certifiably insane. He is entirely unscathed, as far as I can see.
    Don't be silly.

    It's done at least as much damage as the horse-riding saga
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,750
    SeanT said:



    There is no serious equivalent in America politics for the Corbynite Labour party - in all its terrorist kissing, money-printing, Britain-hating, spittle-gobbing madness.

    Bernie Sanders ?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    Scott_P said:

    @hugorifkind: I'm also fairly sure you'd never have got a Tory PM making a speech like that if Ukip hadn't sucked the loonies out. Good old Ukip.

    What about the speeches Cameron made from 2005-2007?

    It really annoys me how rude some leading Conservatives can be about long-standing, hardworking traditional socially conservative party members who worked very hard for the party for decades, but left because they felt both unloved and unwanted.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Scott_P said:

    @hugorifkind: I'm also fairly sure you'd never have got a Tory PM making a speech like that if Ukip hadn't sucked the loonies out. Good old Ukip.

    What about the speeches Cameron made from 2005-2007?

    It really annoys me how rude some leading Conservatives can be about long-standing, hardworking traditional socially conservative party members who worked very hard for the party for decades, but left because they felt both unloved and unwanted.

    Like Ashcroft? :wink:

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    True story: an Obama-voting American said to a Labour friend of mine the other day, "We'd love Cameron as a Democrat president. What's your problem?"

    Et voila.

    Plenty of moderate conservatives (by British standards) vote Democrat given the alternative they face. I'd also question whether an American really 'gets' Cameron or just sees his media image.
    This was a very smart, very well informed American who lives half his time in the UK, so the remark was made with all the facts to hand.

    And of course it is true. Cameron's Tories = mainstream Democrats. Mainstream Republicans = UKIP.

    There is no serious equivalent in America politics for the Corbynite Labour party - in all its terrorist kissing, money-printing, Britain-hating, spittle-gobbing madness.
    I don't think that's quite right: I'd peg Tories = RINOs, although obviously the RINOs have been badly squeezed over the last 10 years.

    The GOP is where the Tories would be if UKIP had won...
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,788
    Tom Fenton ‏@TommyF124 48 mins48 minutes ago

    73.3% tell @SkyNews pulse that they are more likely to vote for Cameron. Wow.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Cameron mocking Ashcroft in his speech was epic.

    TGOHF said:

    Remember when Ashcroft's book was going to dominate the conference ?

    No. What book?
    I will keep an ear out for R4 later
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,013
    Pulpstar said:

    SeanT said:



    There is no serious equivalent in America politics for the Corbynite Labour party - in all its terrorist kissing, money-printing, Britain-hating, spittle-gobbing madness.

    Bernie Sanders ?
    In terms of policy distance from the respective mainstreams, possibly. In terms of actual policy espoused, nowhere near. In Britain, Sanders would be a middle-of-the-road Labour politician with the possible exception of his libertarian edge.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,015

    Tom Fenton ‏@TommyF124 48 mins48 minutes ago

    73.3% tell @SkyNews pulse that they are more likely to vote for Cameron. Wow.

    So is it final proof that the public would prefer a Tory who appears to have almost no beliefs to a Thatcherite?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Dan Hodges
    David Cameron is now the leader of the British left.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @smashmorePH: Len McCluskey says new homes promised by Cameron "are as achievable as a trip to the moon", something which has, in fact, been achieved.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,372

    Frankly, who believes him that aren't already disciples?

    Cameron laying into Corbyn:

    "My friends, we cannot let that man inflict his security threatening, terrorist sympathising, Britain hating ideology on this country."

    To a standing ovation.

    That was the very least that Cameron could have said about Corbyn and the people who elected him and the people who support him and the people who spit on his behalf.
    Although Corbyn has said, has he not that "he loved this country"
    His disciples presumably don't believe it either, and assume he is merely pandering to the right wing press.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited 2015 07
    Charles said:

    SeanT said:

    Cameron mocking Ashcroft in his speech was epic.

    TGOHF said:

    Remember when Ashcroft's book was going to dominate the conference ?

    No. What book?
    The idea that the book would perpetually damage Cameron, leaving him a "crippled lame duck blah blah" now looks quite certifiably insane. He is entirely unscathed, as far as I can see.
    Don't be silly.

    It's done at least as much damage as the horse-riding saga
    Pah, that was a mere pinprick, compared to buying a fish pasty in the pub where he lost his daughter. And the foaming pint of Guinness. Or something.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,015
    Scott_P said:

    @smashmorePH: Len McCluskey says new homes promised by Cameron "are as achievable as a trip to the moon", something which has, in fact, been achieved.

    For a tiny few.

    So that sounds about right.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,750
    Scott_P said:

    @smashmorePH: Len McCluskey says new homes promised by Cameron "are as achievable as a trip to the moon", something which has, in fact, been achieved.

    arf
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    In terms of policy distance from the respective mainstreams, possibly. In terms of actual policy espoused, nowhere near. In Britain, Sanders would be a middle-of-the-road Labour politician with the possible exception of his libertarian edge.

    But with eccentric views on gun-control.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @election_data@election_data · 2m2 minutes ago
    My map showing the seats which will change hands in 2020 as a DIRECT result of that speech (highlighted in red):

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQtuZlaW8AAVotz.png
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    LOL
    Scott_P said:

    @smashmorePH: Len McCluskey says new homes promised by Cameron "are as achievable as a trip to the moon", something which has, in fact, been achieved.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    My Corbynista acquaintances are FUMING at the attack on Jeremy Corbyn, regarding it as an outright lie to suggest that Jeremy Corbyn thought Osama Bin Laden's death was a tragedy. My suggestions that it came in the category of fair comment have been assailed as if by a swarm of bees.

    Meanwhile, the landgrab of the rest of the speech has gone largely unnoticed.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,750
    antifrank said:

    @election_data@election_data · 2m2 minutes ago
    My map showing the seats which will change hands in 2020 as a DIRECT result of that speech (highlighted in red):

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQtuZlaW8AAVotz.png

    Is "Election data" a serious analyst or a slightly miffed centre-left Labour type ?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Interesting tweet by Guido:

    @GuidoFawkes - PM's spokesman just briefed the Lobby that Blairite MPs "Should listen to the speech"...
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Pulpstar said:

    antifrank said:

    @election_data@election_data · 2m2 minutes ago
    My map showing the seats which will change hands in 2020 as a DIRECT result of that speech (highlighted in red):

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQtuZlaW8AAVotz.png

    Is "Election data" a serious analyst or a slightly miffed centre-left Labour type ?
    Normally sticks to actual data analysis.

    But of course the point is sort of statisitcal; most events have less difference than we think they will.
Sign In or Register to comment.