Half of the problem with extremist preachers is that that handpick the kids they want to groom for extremism and invite them to listen to "classes" outside of normal hours where they will be braibswashed to hate non-muslims. Having this shifted into the homes of their parents basically closes that down. How many times have we seen kids go to Syria and the parents are completely unaware and still believe their offspring are wonderful little angels who wouldn't hurt a fly.
On the other hand, we've had parents spin a tail about how their child was always a moderate, normal child with no interest in extremism, and then we find out the parents have marched with Anjem Choudhary. I suspect most of the perpetrators don't come from homes of committed democrats with a liberal take on Islam.
Asked if he wants to come home now from Tunisia, a Scottish gent says in his opinion lightning doesn't strike twice, so it's the safest place to be right now.
He is probably not wrong. Doesn't mean that Scotland's not a whole load safer though!
Dubai. About the only place in the middle east to have escaped this sh!t so far.
A few years ago when Bahrain had its problems the UK foreign office did an unofficial census, getting all the expats and regular visitors to register with the embassy. They were surprised to find over 150k Brits in the UAE. Apparently there exists an evacuation plan, but it would take more than a couple of weeks to get that many out! My personal evac plan would either be to fly East somewhere safe and British-friendly like HK or Singapore, else drive over land to Muscat, Oman and out from there. Hopefully won't need it though!
@BJO Do you have access to a minibar? If so, then raid it. I'll pay the bill.
Thanks a few people are starting to move round the hotel will give it a few more minutes. Will have to read the All Inclusive definition closer next time!!
Very sad events today. Hope everything is alright for you BJO and you can come home safely sooner rather than later.
I'm beginning to think that closing down all mosques in Europe for review and extremism extermination wouldn't be an over reaction any more. People would still be free to practice at home but until extremist preachers are rooted out and deported it seems insane to give them a platform from which to spew hate against non-muslims.
Close them all tomorrow, review them one by one, look at the backgrounds and history of all the preachers, a whiff of extremism would lead to them being barred from preaching in this country.
Sounds extreme and very harsh against normal Muslims given that other religions wouldn't be under the same level of scrutiny but there aren't British born Hindus, Christians or Buddhists fighting a war against people not of their denomination. It is Muslim men beheading and killing all over the world and many of them went through UK mosques. Something has to be done and the time for consensual action is over, the government need to make big moves, and in all honesty if some people don't like it, they can buy a one way ticket from Heathrow to any Muslim nation of their choosing.
Banning preaching would be difficult. If you stop it in official mosques, the extremists will preach in people's homes. I'm not comparing them to Islamist nutjobs, but Quakers and other non-conformists were banned after the Test Act in 1673, and they met in the open air.
Besides, t'Internet is apparently a large problem with radicalisation.
Half of the problem with extremist preachers is that that handpick the kids they want to groom for extremism and invite them to listen to "classes" outside of normal hours where they will be braibswashed to hate non-muslims. Having this shifted into the homes of their parents basically closes that down. How many times have we seen kids go to Syria and the parents are completely unaware and still believe their offspring are wonderful little angels who wouldn't hurt a fly.
As for the internet, absolutely agreed but one step at a time. Getting rid of radical preachers and those who glorify violence against non-muslims needs to be step one.
Fair enough: I don't know what the answers are. I'd be very nervous about going back to anything like the Test Act though.
If we believe that our values are better than theirs, we need to be careful if we choose to water them down in order to fight them.
The British ISIS bloke who just died seems a rare example - his mum apparently reported him to the police at least twice and when he contacted her from abroad. She was appalled by what he was doing and when she asked him if she'd ever see him again, he said No.
Half of the problem with extremist preachers is that that handpick the kids they want to groom for extremism and invite them to listen to "classes" outside of normal hours where they will be braibswashed to hate non-muslims. Having this shifted into the homes of their parents basically closes that down. How many times have we seen kids go to Syria and the parents are completely unaware and still believe their offspring are wonderful little angels who wouldn't hurt a fly.
On the other hand, we've had parents spin a tail about how their child was always a moderate, normal child with no interest in extremism, and then we find out the parents have marched with Anjem Choudhary. I suspect most of the perpetrators don't come from homes of committed democrats with a liberal take on Islam.
@BJO Do you have access to a minibar? If so, then raid it. I'll pay the bill.
Thanks a few people are starting to move round the hotel will give it a few more minutes. Will have to read the All Inclusive definition closer next time!!
Be like the BBC on Election night, don't revise your outlook from "probably safe to head out" to "definitely safe" till it's all very obviously clear.
Sky reporting that the gun man hid his rifle in a parasol as he walked onto the beach. Toll now 28. Brits, Irish, Belgium and Germans reported involved.
@BJO Do you have access to a minibar? If so, then raid it. I'll pay the bill.
Thanks a few people are starting to move round the hotel will give it a few more minutes. Will have to read the All Inclusive definition closer next time!!
@BJO Do you have access to a minibar? If so, then raid it. I'll pay the bill.
Thanks a few people are starting to move round the hotel will give it a few more minutes. Will have to read the All Inclusive definition closer next time!!
BJO there is no hurry for you to leave your room. SF will be performing a floor-by-floor clearance. You can wait for that and ensure that if and when a knock comes you remain safely positioned until you are sure of the credentials of the SF.
@BJO Do you have access to a minibar? If so, then raid it. I'll pay the bill.
Thanks a few people are starting to move round the hotel will give it a few more minutes. Will have to read the All Inclusive definition closer next time!!
BJO there is no hurry for you to leave your room. SF will be performing a floor-by-floor clearance. You can wait for that and ensure that if and when a knock comes you remain safely positioned until you are sure of the credentials of the SF.
It comes to something when you're grateful for a knock at the door from Sinn Fein.
@BJO Do you have access to a minibar? If so, then raid it. I'll pay the bill.
Thanks a few people are starting to move round the hotel will give it a few more minutes. Will have to read the All Inclusive definition closer next time!!
Fair enough: I don't know what the answers are. I'd be very nervous about going back to anything like the Test Act though.
If we believe that our values are better than theirs, we need to be careful if we choose to water them down in order to fight them.
I don't know what the answers are either, this is just something I think needs to be looked at and I'm sure it wouldn't be without issues. In fact I can see loads of reasons not to do it, but one massive one to go ahead with something like it.
Sometimes it takes radical and extreme reactions to protect our nation and ideals, even actions that may conflict with those ideals, but I'm not going to be someone who wakes up in 20 years living in fear of my life from home grown terrorist attacks by some sharia4uk group thinking about what could have been had we compromised our ideals all those years ago.
Asked if he wants to come home now from Tunisia, a Scottish gent says in his opinion lightning doesn't strike twice, so it's the safest place to be right now.
He is probably not wrong. Doesn't mean that Scotland's not a whole load safer though!
Dubai. About the only place in the middle east to have escaped this sh!t so far.
A few years ago when Bahrain had its problems the UK foreign office did an unofficial census, getting all the expats and regular visitors to register with the embassy. They were surprised to find over 150k Brits in the UAE. Apparently there exists an evacuation plan, but it would take more than a couple of weeks to get that many out! My personal evac plan would either be to fly East somewhere safe and British-friendly like HK or Singapore, else drive over land to Muscat, Oman and out from there. Hopefully won't need it though!
Bahrain's problem was the Sunni and the Shia going for each other, combined with the recession and youth unemployment. There were loads of anti-govt protests that were often violently shut down. The whole thing carried on for several months, they cancelled the F1 race one year in the middle of it all. Most Bahraini contacts were happier to meet me in Dubai or London during that time, so I managed to stay away from it personally. It got resolved by the govt being more generous to the locals in sharing the oil and gas revenues among the population.
It does rather make a mockery of the much-vaunted independence of the judiciary in the US when you can predict with near 100% certainty how the bench of the Supreme Court will go with the political platform of those who appointed them. Are they really that impervious to the merits of the case being pleaded before them?
WG I think the best she can hope for is a charge to the VP slot and I think that will probably end up going to Rubio anyway if Bush or Walker win the nomination
@BJO Do you have access to a minibar? If so, then raid it. I'll pay the bill.
Thanks a few people are starting to move round the hotel will give it a few more minutes. Will have to read the All Inclusive definition closer next time!!
Seriously, if in any doubt about what is going on, ask for somebody from the British Embassy to be found before you'll leave your room. I can't believe they aren't at the hotel by now.
You don't take the slightest chances in this situation.
This SC court decision ironically means that the US has adopted gay marriage before several other western nations. Germany, Italy and Australia for instance are yet to enshrine gay marriage into law
BBC showing pictures of military Humvees outside the hotels - with large guns on top! Hopefully won't be too long now Mr Owls, stay in good spirits (and wines and beers!)
Normally, on a day like today, I would be entertaining myself with the absurd judicial activism in the United States. @bigjohnowls' experience puts such matters into perspective. Best wishes to you and your family, and stay safe.
At the risk of sounding like FF, since my near miss on 7/7 I have taken the view that the chances are that these horrors will continue, and there is nothing that we can really do about it. There will be the same platitudes from politicians, of whatever stripe, and a good, but ultimately fruitless, attempt by the authorities to keep it in all in check. I mostly hope that me and mine won't walk round the corner into AK fire while going about our daily business.
But one day they will go too far and then a part of the world will "drown in a sea of fire" and there will be anti-muslim pogroms or civil war in parts of the west.
It does rather make a mockery of the much-vaunted independence of the judiciary in the US when you can predict with near 100% certainty how the bench of the Supreme Court will go with the political platform of those who appointed them. Are they really that impervious to the merits of the case being pleaded before them?
The differences with the Obamacare judgement is that Roberts was in favour and Kennedy against.
It does rather make a mockery of the much-vaunted independence of the judiciary in the US when you can predict with near 100% certainty how the bench of the Supreme Court will go with the political platform of those who appointed them. Are they really that impervious to the merits of the case being pleaded before them?
Justice Kennedy, appointed by Reagan, swung it.
The UK Supreme Court has liberals and traditionalists just the same.
It does rather make a mockery of the much-vaunted independence of the judiciary in the US when you can predict with near 100% certainty how the bench of the Supreme Court will go with the political platform of those who appointed them. Are they really that impervious to the merits of the case being pleaded before them?
Neither Kennedy nor Roberts are entirely predictable.
"Gunmen attacked the Imperial Hotel and Hotel Club Riu Bellevue at Port El Kantaoui, near Sousse, earlier today. A number of people have been killed and injured. A British Embassy crisis team is on its way to the area.
Some attackers may still be at large. Any British nationals in these hotels or nearby should remain indoors, and contact their tour operator and the Foreign Office on the hotline number below. For security reasons they should not advertise their location on social media or when speaking to journalists.
Fair enough: I don't know what the answers are. I'd be very nervous about going back to anything like the Test Act though.
If we believe that our values are better than theirs, we need to be careful if we choose to water them down in order to fight them.
I don't know what the answers are either, this is just something I think needs to be looked at and I'm sure it wouldn't be without issues. In fact I can see loads of reasons not to do it, but one massive one to go ahead with something like it.
Sometimes it takes radical and extreme reactions to protect our nation and ideals, even actions that may conflict with those ideals, but I'm not going to be someone who wakes up in 20 years living in fear of my life from home grown terrorist attacks by some sharia4uk group thinking about what could have been had we compromised our ideals all those years ago.
But then:-
"More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you — where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country's planted thick with laws from coast to coast — man's laws, not God's — and if you cut them down — and you're just the man to do it — d'you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake"
I doubt very much whether the real Sir Thomas More would ever have expressed himself in this way, but the point is sound. In essence, once you start depriving Muslims of the same liberties that everyone else enjoys, a different government can use similar laws to turn on other groups, such as devout Christians or eurosceptics.
I don't doubt the U.S. Supreme Court indulges in blatant judicial activism, though I doubt it is only ever in one direction, so the ones on it who lost out this time are hardly in a position to complain.
@BJO Do you have access to a minibar? If so, then raid it. I'll pay the bill.
Thanks a few people are starting to move round the hotel will give it a few more minutes. Will have to read the All Inclusive definition closer next time!!
BJO there is no hurry for you to leave your room. SF will be performing a floor-by-floor clearance. You can wait for that and ensure that if and when a knock comes you remain safely positioned until you are sure of the credentials of the SF.
It comes to something when you're grateful for a knock at the door from Sinn Fein.
@BJO Do you have access to a minibar? If so, then raid it. I'll pay the bill.
Thanks a few people are starting to move round the hotel will give it a few more minutes. Will have to read the All Inclusive definition closer next time!!
Seriously, if in any doubt about what is going on, ask for somebody from the British Embassy to be found before you'll leave your room. I can't believe they aren't at the hotel by now.
You don't take the slightest chances in this situation.
Still waiting took barricades down in room but its still all quiet
I recall justice kennedys Wikipedia page claims he likes to use other country's legal systems or cases as examples in his judgements sometimes, which is fairly interesting if true, drove find particularly on which country's and how similar they are
@BJO Do you have access to a minibar? If so, then raid it. I'll pay the bill.
Thanks a few people are starting to move round the hotel will give it a few more minutes. Will have to read the All Inclusive definition closer next time!!
Seriously, if in any doubt about what is going on, ask for somebody from the British Embassy to be found before you'll leave your room. I can't believe they aren't at the hotel by now.
You don't take the slightest chances in this situation.
Still waiting took barricades down in room but its still all quiet
BJO please put the barricades back up. All quiet does not equal all clear at this point.
By the by, I was advised by a pest control guy that when you go abroad, keep your suitcases in the bath. It is the only place you are safe from having bed bugs stow away.
He knew of people that had brought bed bugs back from holiday. It had literally cost them thousands to clear them from their homes.
Just in case you needed something to worry about, Mr Owls.... ;-)
"Gunmen attacked the Imperial Hotel and Hotel Club Riu Bellevue at Port El Kantaoui, near Sousse, earlier today. A number of people have been killed and injured. A British Embassy crisis team is on its way to the area.
Some attackers may still be at large. Any British nationals in these hotels or nearby should remain indoors, and contact their tour operator and the Foreign Office on the hotline number below. For security reasons they should not advertise their location on social media or when speaking to journalists.
FCO Hotline number: 0207 008 0000"
Appreciate the problems, but that's hardly timely is it?
By the by, I was advised by a pest control guy that when you go abroad, keep your suitcases in the bath. It is the only place you are safe from having bed bugs stow away.
He knew of people that had brought bed bugs back from holiday. It had literally cost them thousands to clear them from their homes.
Just in case you needed something to worry about, Mr Owls.... ;-)
Mr. Max, won't happen, and if it did there'd be a bloody massive backlash.
We're barely past the stage where the authorities looked the other way when girls were being raped on an industrial scale because they didn't want to 'stir up tensions'.
Edited extra bit: girls *and* boys. About a third of the Rotherham victims were boys, which is something rarely mentioned and which I shouldn't've omitted.
Never heard that before, unsurprisingly. Fully a third, massively disproportionate.
Ethiopia must be a paradise compared to Eritrea judging by the number of people trying to escape from the latter country. (Bit of an exaggeration there).
Ethiopia must be a paradise compared to Eritrea judging by the number of people trying to escape from the latter country. (Bit of an exaggeration there).
It's a paradise compared to how it was under Mengistu.
The Archsocialist has made an empty pronouncement: "Facing such a global and long-term menace, we are called to reaffirm our solidarity with each other and affirm the great treasures of freedom," he added.
Fair enough: I don't know what the answers are. I'd be very nervous about going back to anything like the Test Act though.
If we believe that our values are better than theirs, we need to be careful if we choose to water them down in order to fight them.
I don't know what the answers are either, this is just something I think needs to be looked at and I'm sure it wouldn't be without issues. In fact I can see loads of reasons not to do it, but one massive one to go ahead with something like it.
Sometimes it takes radical and extreme reactions to protect our nation and ideals, even actions that may conflict with those ideals, but I'm not going to be someone who wakes up in 20 years living in fear of my life from home grown terrorist attacks by some sharia4uk group thinking about what could have been had we compromised our ideals all those years ago.
But then:-
"More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you — where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country's planted thick with laws from coast to coast — man's laws, not God's — and if you cut them down — and you're just the man to do it — d'you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake"
I doubt very much whether the real Sir Thomas More would ever have expressed himself in this way, but the point is sound. In essence, once you start depriving Muslims of the same liberties that everyone else enjoys, a different government can use similar laws to turn on other groups, such as devout Christians or eurosceptics.
As I said there are clearly a lot of drawbacks, but short of doing a King Edward and expelling all Muslims it seems hard to see how we can secure the country and our people against these arseholes. I fully see the slippery slope and I know that the road to hell is paved with good intentions, but at this stage I don't see how anything we do will make our situation worse.
Campaigners have called for 'Nancy the dolphin carer' dolls to be removed from shelves in Spain over claims it promotes the exploitation of animals.
A petition has been launched demanding that Spanish toymaker Famosa recalls the toy, which retails for the equivalent of £24.
The Catalonia-based animal rights group Associació Cetàcea has called the sale of the doll 'a backward step'.
According to The Local, the doll comes with accessories including a bucket, hoop and handbag and is one of the toymaker's most popular products.
Famosa has denied that the doll is meant to be a dolphin trainer.
But in its petition, Associació Cetàcea wrote: 'It represents a step backwards in terms of all those values animal lovers want to pass on to new generations.'
Mr. Max, worth remembering things can always get worse. Syria was arguably the worst place on the planet, and then ISIS appeared made it even more terrible.
I guess it is too much to expect, like the Boston bombers, for any of the perpetrators to have an uncle who was married to daughter of senior CIA officer Graham Fuller. What do you reckon he was doing hanging around with Chechens in the 90s given his area of expertise?
Of course Fuller probably knew Bin Laden too given his time in Afghanistan,.
The Archsocialist has made an empty pronouncement: "Facing such a global and long-term menace, we are called to reaffirm our solidarity with each other and affirm the great treasures of freedom," he added.
The UK Supreme Court has liberals and traditionalists just the same.
Who are the "liberals" and who are the "traditionalists" on the United Kingdom Supreme Court?
Traditionalists include Neuberger (link) whereas Hale's a liberal reformist (link).
They accept some differences of course, because it is natural that as individuals they come from differrent starting points. If Justices weren't so fiercely independent minded (borne of a sense of self-importance, some of it rightly so) it might be more of a problem.
By the by, I was advised by a pest control guy that when you go abroad, keep your suitcases in the bath. It is the only place you are safe from having bed bugs stow away.
He knew of people that had brought bed bugs back from holiday. It had literally cost them thousands to clear them from their homes.
Just in case you needed something to worry about, Mr Owls.... ;-)
By the by, I was advised by a pest control guy that when you go abroad, keep your suitcases in the bath. It is the only place you are safe from having bed bugs stow away.
He knew of people that had brought bed bugs back from holiday. It had literally cost them thousands to clear them from their homes.
Just in case you needed something to worry about, Mr Owls.... ;-)
When Vietnam was opening up in the early 90's, hotel accommodation was tricky. There was a hotel near the airport in Hanoi that nobody wanted to stay in. Unfortunately, it was owned by some Army bods, who made sure it was full, by picking people off flights at random and putting them under "house arrest" in said hotel between 10 pm and 6 am. They also charged you $200 for their inconvenience... I never suffered this, but a young female lawyer did. She needed to go to the loo in the middle of the night, put on the light - to see the entire ugly bugs ball look up at her as one, before they scuttled away under her bed...
Mr. Max, worth remembering things can always get worse. Syria was arguably the worst place on the planet, and then ISIS appeared made it even more terrible.
Mr. Max, a simple increase in attacks in the UK would be a worsening of the situation, or the outlawing of Islamophobia, or an Islamist party getting represented in Parliament etc etc.
By the by, I was advised by a pest control guy that when you go abroad, keep your suitcases in the bath. It is the only place you are safe from having bed bugs stow away.
He knew of people that had brought bed bugs back from holiday. It had literally cost them thousands to clear them from their homes.
Just in case you needed something to worry about, Mr Owls.... ;-)
When Vietnam was opening up in the early 90's, hotel accommodation was tricky. There was a hotel near the airport in Hanoi that nobody wanted to stay in. Unfortunately, it was owned by some Army bods, who made sure it was full, by picking people off flights at random and putting them under "house arrest" in said hotel between 10 pm and 6 am. They also charged you $200 for their inconvenience... I never suffered this, but a young female lawyer did. She needed to go to the loo in the middle of the night, put on the light - to see the entire ugly bugs ball look up at her as one, before they scuttled away under her bed...
By the by, I was advised by a pest control guy that when you go abroad, keep your suitcases in the bath. It is the only place you are safe from having bed bugs stow away.
He knew of people that had brought bed bugs back from holiday. It had literally cost them thousands to clear them from their homes.
Just in case you needed something to worry about, Mr Owls.... ;-)
It's OK, he's not in New York.
Ah, what’s not to love about these adorable critters…!
Fair enough: I don't know what the answers are. I'd be very nervous about going back to anything like the Test Act though.
If we believe that our values are better than theirs, we need to be careful if we choose to water them down in order to fight them.
I don't know what the answers are either, this is just something I think needs to be looked at and I'm sure it wouldn't be without issues. In fact I can see loads of reasons not to do it, but one massive one to go ahead with something like it.
Sometimes it takes radical and extreme reactions to protect our nation and ideals, even actions that may conflict with those ideals, but I'm not going to be someone who wakes up in 20 years living in fear of my life from home grown terrorist attacks by some sharia4uk group thinking about what could have been had we compromised our ideals all those years ago.
But then:-
"More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you — where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country's planted thick with laws from coast to coast — man's laws, not God's — and if you cut them down — and you're just the man to do it — d'you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake"
I doubt very much whether the real Sir Thomas More would ever have expressed himself in this way, but the point is sound. In essence, once you start depriving Muslims of the same liberties that everyone else enjoys, a different government can use similar laws to turn on other groups, such as devout Christians or eurosceptics.
As I said there are clearly a lot of drawbacks, but short of doing a King Edward and expelling all Muslims it seems hard to see how we can secure the country and our people against these arseholes. I fully see the slippery slope and I know that the road to hell is paved with good intentions, but at this stage I don't see how anything we do will make our situation worse.
"It's a tiny minority" is a cliché.
But, even allowing for the fact that terrorists need a wider sea of sympathisers to swim amongst, it's fair to say that a large majority of British or French Muslims don't identify or sympathise with jihadists.
Our Luton South candidate was a Muslim, for example. Some years ago, he was Chairman of the Board of Governors at a school, where he was sued by a pupil who was represented by Cherie Blair, for not allowing her to wear the full burkha at school. I'm pleased to say she lost.
BBC now reporting: Acting alone Posted at 16:47 Tunisia's Interior Ministry says the gunman killed by police was acting alone when he attacked a beach resort in Sousse, killing at least 28 people and wounding 36, reports the AFP news agency.
The Interior Ministry had previously said two attackers were involved, including one who had fled the scene.
I guess it is too much to expect, like the Boston bombers, for any of the perpetrators to have an uncle who was married to daughter of senior CIA officer Graham Fuller. What do you reckon he was doing hanging around with Chechens in the 90s given his area of expertise?
Of course Fuller probably knew Bin Laden too given his time in Afghanistan,.</blockquo
By the by, I was advised by a pest control guy that when you go abroad, keep your suitcases in the bath. It is the only place you are safe from having bed bugs stow away.
He knew of people that had brought bed bugs back from holiday. It had literally cost them thousands to clear them from their homes.
Just in case you needed something to worry about, Mr Owls.... ;-)
It's OK, he's not in New York.
Ah, what’s not to love about these adorable critters…!
On-topic., the truth is that in Opposition all parties are defined by the Govenrment they are facing. The question then becomes what the Party decides it has to do to become the Govenrment again and one of the ways is to elect the leader the public wants rather than the leader the Party wants.
It's hard to believe now but when Margaret Thatcher won the Conservative Party leadership in February 1975 she had very few allies in the Shadow Cabinet and I'm sure Tony Blair and David Cameron in their turn faced senior collegaues many of whom had significant doubts about their abilities and ideas.
For both Labour and the Liberal Democrats, who face different problems, the dilemma is essentially the same. The candidate for the Party or the candidate for the world beyond the Party ? Yes, the leader has to work with the Party but you'd be surprised how quickly the prospect of victory unifies.
A fun idea would be to run the election as FPTP, but to give each member TWO votes. One vote would be a positive vote and one a negative. Each negative vote would cancel out a positive vote, and once all the votes had been tallied each candidate would get a NET total. In case of a tie, the most positives would win.
Quicker to count than STV, but with some of the same advantages.
Two religious whack jobs with guns..28 people killed and an entire section of a poor country's tourist industry closed down..win win for the extremists
The problem is that the funding of ISIS/L, Taleban and Al-Qiada comes mainly from sources in one country. Most people know that the 9/11 murderers came from the same country.
Until the boil is lanced, it will keep suppurating . Either the authorities in that country deals with it or the time will come when others will.
Had the polls herded around an accurate number, it would still have been statistically improbable. But they didn’t. They herded around the wrong number. Remember that explanation I touched upon before, about the reducing number of don’t knows as people made up their minds as polling day approached? Well, people were making up their minds – to vote Conservative. Yet according to the pollsters they were making up their minds to vote Labour.
This is even more statistically improbable. The final number the polls herded around had no basis in fact. It was a wholly random number in statistical terms. So in fact, the chances of a dozen independent pollsters, all with entirely different methodologies and sample sizes, all happening to randomly herd around the same false number is not statistically improbable, it’s statistically fantastical.
Traditionalists include Neuberger (link) whereas Hale's a liberal reformist (link).
They accept some differences of course, because it is natural that as individuals they come from differrent starting points. If Justices weren't so fiercely independent minded (borne of a sense of self-importance, some of it rightly so) it might be more of a problem.
Those articles are singularly badly informed. Anyone who actually has to read the Supreme Court's decisions quickly appreciates that while they make bad decisions and often engage in judicial activism, they don't do so in a predictable, consistent or political fashion. The contrast with the United States could not be stronger. Indeed, the most potent charge against the reasoning of our own Supreme Court is not of political bias, but of casuistry.
@bigjohnowls Are you out and about now? Pix on Sky show security forces bristling with guns outside the hotels but appear to be now guarding it, rather than hunting anyone down.
Two religious whack jobs with guns..28 people killed and an entire section of a poor country's tourist industry closed down..win win for the extremists
Even worse ratio than that. Looking like just one shooter now.
Two religious whack jobs with guns..28 people killed and an entire section of a poor country's tourist industry closed down..win win for the extremists
Not only that of course - in Tunisia sections of the population are impoverished and radcialised and the entire country is destabilised while elsewhere Governments in the name of "security" strengthen laws and further radicalise prts of their populations.
As you say, rightly I fear, a win-win for extremism but only if we allow it so to be.
Had the polls herded around an accurate number, it would still have been statistically improbable. But they didn’t. They herded around the wrong number. Remember that explanation I touched upon before, about the reducing number of don’t knows as people made up their minds as polling day approached? Well, people were making up their minds – to vote Conservative. Yet according to the pollsters they were making up their minds to vote Labour.
This is even more statistically improbable. The final number the polls herded around had no basis in fact. It was a wholly random number in statistical terms. So in fact, the chances of a dozen independent pollsters, all with entirely different methodologies and sample sizes, all happening to randomly herd around the same false number is not statistically improbable, it’s statistically fantastical.
In the final 18 days leading up to the election I noted every movement in every poll and compared it to the previous poll by that organisation
At first it showed bad news for the Tories, and the Tories on here were forensically pooh poohing my research, asking a million questions about how why where I did it basically because it showed bad results for them. But the reason for that was I started taking note on the day the Tories dropped to 34 from 39 w ICM
After 16 days of doing this, the Tories had lost 2 points (net) from 33 polls (almost nothing from a high starting point) while Labour were down 13 points net (quite a lot from a low starting point)
So the pollsters did have the momentum assessed correctly
UKIP also improved over that period (4 points I think) and I emailed a few people on here saying the shrewd move seemed to be to take on Labour in seats where they were close in the betting w Cons or KIP and to back Con minority (alas UKIP didn't win seats despite beating the VI estimates, and I was too lemming like blind to the chances of anyone getting a majority to recommend the Tory maj)
Afzal Ashraf, a consultant fellow in international diplomacy at the London-based Royal United Services Insitute, says: "Tunisia, of course, is one of those countries that is regarded as a bit of a success as a result of the Arab Spring. And so it's one of the most moderate regimes to emerge from that upheaval - and what that means is that the extremists within that country feel disenfranchised; they feel that they've lost out and they want to hit out and try to discredit and destroy this state."
Afzal Ashraf, a consultant fellow in international diplomacy at the London-based Royal United Services Insitute, says: "Tunisia, of course, is one of those countries that is regarded as a bit of a success as a result of the Arab Spring. And so it's one of the most moderate regimes to emerge from that upheaval - and what that means is that the extremists within that country feel disenfranchised; they feel that they've lost out and they want to hit out and try to discredit and destroy this state."
BBC - The UK's Foreign and Commonwealth Office has issued this statement:
"We are urgently working with tour operators and local authorities in Tunisia to gather and confirm information on those affected by this attack. A team from the British Embassy in Tunis is on its way to the area to support any British nationals needing assistance."
The problem is that the funding of ISIS/L, Taleban and Al-Qiada comes mainly from sources in one country. Most people know that the 9/11 murderers came from the same country.
Until the boil is lanced, it will keep suppurating . Either the authorities in that country deals with it or the time will come when others will.
Isn't a big part of what is currently going on the shia/sunni civil war that has been ongoing virtually since Mohammed's death? Leaders back whichever side best represents their view of the religion.
Comments
Worth another airing at a later date.
If we believe that our values are better than theirs, we need to be careful if we choose to water them down in order to fight them.
Then he was killed.
That's the spirit!
Tourists hiding in laundry room have ventured out and called home.
A cheap form of Pernod!!!
Sometimes it takes radical and extreme reactions to protect our nation and ideals, even actions that may conflict with those ideals, but I'm not going to be someone who wakes up in 20 years living in fear of my life from home grown terrorist attacks by some sharia4uk group thinking about what could have been had we compromised our ideals all those years ago.
You don't take the slightest chances in this situation.
Hopefully won't be too long now Mr Owls, stay in good spirits (and wines and beers!)
@bigjohnowls' experience puts such matters into perspective. Best wishes to you and your family, and stay safe.
Hard to work out from Tweets how things are - given bots and spammers get in on act. Hope you and yours are OK.
But one day they will go too far and then a part of the world will "drown in a sea of fire" and there will be anti-muslim pogroms or civil war in parts of the west.
http://belmontclub.blogspot.co.uk/2003/09/three-conjectures-pew-poll-finds-40-of.html
(edited for typos)
The UK Supreme Court has liberals and traditionalists just the same.
https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/tunisia
"Gunmen attacked the Imperial Hotel and Hotel Club Riu Bellevue at Port El Kantaoui, near Sousse, earlier today. A number of people have been killed and injured. A British Embassy crisis team is on its way to the area.
Some attackers may still be at large. Any British nationals in these hotels or nearby should remain indoors, and contact their tour operator and the Foreign Office on the hotline number below. For security reasons they should not advertise their location on social media or when speaking to journalists.
FCO Hotline number: 0207 008 0000"
"More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you — where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country's planted thick with laws from coast to coast — man's laws, not God's — and if you cut them down — and you're just the man to do it — d'you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake"
I doubt very much whether the real Sir Thomas More would ever have expressed himself in this way, but the point is sound. In essence, once you start depriving Muslims of the same liberties that everyone else enjoys, a different government can use similar laws to turn on other groups, such as devout Christians or eurosceptics.
Ethiopian People's Revolutionary Democratic Front: 547
Others: 0
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/interactive/2015/06/ethiopia-election-seat-parliament-opposition-150623150257749.html
He knew of people that had brought bed bugs back from holiday. It had literally cost them thousands to clear them from their homes.
Just in case you needed something to worry about, Mr Owls.... ;-)
They thwarted their arch-enemies, the People's Revolutionary Democratic Front of Ethiopia.
Mr. Flag, I only heard it once or twice during the deluge of reporting the media rightly did when the story broke.
"Facing such a global and long-term menace, we are called to reaffirm our solidarity with each other and affirm the great treasures of freedom," he added.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-africa-33208573
Still, a step up from his pro-Sharia predecessor, the Archdruid.
Of course Fuller probably knew Bin Laden too given his time in Afghanistan,.
Not sure a toy dolphin quite matches up to that.
They accept some differences of course, because it is natural that as individuals they come from differrent starting points. If Justices weren't so fiercely independent minded (borne of a sense of self-importance, some of it rightly so) it might be more of a problem.
For a similar view: http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/features/a-law-unto-itself-supreme-court-judges
The Port el-Kantaoui resort would have been easy to secure, says Tunisia tourist board manager"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/11701610/Tunisia-lessons-were-not-learnt-from-Bardo-museum-attack.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
I won't post any quotes here as it would be considered somewhat unparliamentary language by OGH.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/politics-blog/11701135/Yes-the-pollsters-lied-and-heres-the-proof.html
*runs away* Hope things sort themselves out soon @bigjohnowls
I always think the worst thing you could do would be to shine a black light on your hotel bed sheets/counterpane/walls.
That'd horrify most guests. All those bodily fluids almost invisible to the naked eye...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw_zUUE4BE0
But, even allowing for the fact that terrorists need a wider sea of sympathisers to swim amongst, it's fair to say that a large majority of British or French Muslims don't identify or sympathise with jihadists.
Our Luton South candidate was a Muslim, for example. Some years ago, he was Chairman of the Board of Governors at a school, where he was sued by a pupil who was represented by Cherie Blair, for not allowing her to wear the full burkha at school. I'm pleased to say she lost.
Acting alone
Posted at 16:47
Tunisia's Interior Ministry says the gunman killed by police was acting alone when he attacked a beach resort in Sousse, killing at least 28 people and wounding 36, reports the AFP news agency.
The Interior Ministry had previously said two attackers were involved, including one who had fled the scene.
Tom Watson 33%
Stella Creasy 27%
Caroline Flint 17%
Angela Eagle 10%
Ben Bradshaw 6%
http://labourlist.org/2015/06/watson-leads-in-first-labourlist-deputy-leadership-survey/
My first chance to comment after a busy few days.
On-topic., the truth is that in Opposition all parties are defined by the Govenrment they are facing. The question then becomes what the Party decides it has to do to become the Govenrment again and one of the ways is to elect the leader the public wants rather than the leader the Party wants.
It's hard to believe now but when Margaret Thatcher won the Conservative Party leadership in February 1975 she had very few allies in the Shadow Cabinet and I'm sure Tony Blair and David Cameron in their turn faced senior collegaues many of whom had significant doubts about their abilities and ideas.
For both Labour and the Liberal Democrats, who face different problems, the dilemma is essentially the same. The candidate for the Party or the candidate for the world beyond the Party ? Yes, the leader has to work with the Party but you'd be surprised how quickly the prospect of victory unifies.
A fun idea would be to run the election as FPTP, but to give each member TWO votes. One vote would be a positive vote and one a negative. Each negative vote would cancel out a positive vote, and once all the votes had been tallied each candidate would get a NET total. In case of a tie, the most positives would win.
Quicker to count than STV, but with some of the same advantages.
Until the boil is lanced, it will keep suppurating . Either the authorities in that country deals with it or the time will come when others will.
As you say, rightly I fear, a win-win for extremism but only if we allow it so to be.
At first it showed bad news for the Tories, and the Tories on here were forensically pooh poohing my research, asking a million questions about how why where I did it basically because it showed bad results for them. But the reason for that was I started taking note on the day the Tories dropped to 34 from 39 w ICM
After 16 days of doing this, the Tories had lost 2 points (net) from 33 polls (almost nothing from a high starting point) while Labour were down 13 points net (quite a lot from a low starting point)
So the pollsters did have the momentum assessed correctly
UKIP also improved over that period (4 points I think) and I emailed a few people on here saying the shrewd move seemed to be to take on Labour in seats where they were close in the betting w Cons or KIP and to back Con minority (alas UKIP didn't win seats despite beating the VI estimates, and I was too lemming like blind to the chances of anyone getting a majority to recommend the Tory maj)
Afzal Ashraf, a consultant fellow in international diplomacy at the London-based Royal United Services Insitute, says: "Tunisia, of course, is one of those countries that is regarded as a bit of a success as a result of the Arab Spring. And so it's one of the most moderate regimes to emerge from that upheaval - and what that means is that the extremists within that country feel disenfranchised; they feel that they've lost out and they want to hit out and try to discredit and destroy this state."
BBC - The UK's Foreign and Commonwealth Office has issued this statement:
"We are urgently working with tour operators and local authorities in Tunisia to gather and confirm information on those affected by this attack. A team from the British Embassy in Tunis is on its way to the area to support any British nationals needing assistance."
How have you found the holiday? Would you recommend North Africa to friends for a relaxing break?
OT. I thought the header was disappointing again. Basically Labour's only hope is a Con/SNP implosion. Sub-text - Labour do nothing.
BJO - glad you're safe.
Don Brind must have taken hours writing this thread...