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  • marktheowlmarktheowl Posts: 169

    Some PB Labour supporters seem almost complacently confident today which is a bit surprising given that today's polls including the Ashcroft marginals polls seem ok for the Tories. Survation has a 3 point Tory lead plus a big Kipper vote share which on the day could translate into a healthy Tory lead, especially if the undecided break blue and the can't be arseds can't be arsed. April pay packets will cause many undecided to muse too.

    Are PB lefties genuinely confident or is it just bravado?

    Not particularly confident, but more so than a month ago. Miliband has had a good campaign and that does wonders for morale. The SNP stuff will evidently have cut through, even if it is ludicrous hyperbole and ignores the fact that Cameron will have his own chaos in coalition or with a tiny majority and the referendum, but in so much as it's working it's as a defensive measure against the fact that Ed has mitigated, if not entirely got rid of his image problem and has won on policies so far - the non-doms was the policy event of the campaign so far and the manifesto wasn't torn to shreds, there haven't been any Elvis mishaps or football forgetfulness. The spectre is the SNP - if it were still looking like its MPs could arrive in a taxi, Cameron would be absolute toast, as it is their success has not only ensured there's little chance of a Lab majority, but given him the attack line which may just swing it his way.

    I think John Rentoul has it more or less right when he says that he thinks the probability of who is PM has mildly shifted in Ed's favour - putting it at about 60%, before the campaign he'd have made Cameron favourite. There's so many different strands of opinion and competing factors that could decide the election, that who knows - but being a smidgen ahead in the polls is a much better position than most people thought Labour would be now.

    Oh, and why will April pay packets decide it? The Tories have already tried this with 'money back Monday', which came just after March pay packets arrived - nothing budged.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Just saw Joe Root was made MOTM. Brilliant hundred but how often does 1 player win a match in the way Jimmy did today? Involved in the first 6 wickets today.


    I know it's a batsman's game but that is ridiculous.

    It was punishment for Jimmy for running like a muppet and getting run out, and depriving Joe Root of at least a double hundred and possibly a triple hundred.
    You are a hard man TSE.
    I'm a Yorkshireman, from Sheffield.

    Joe Root is also from Sheffield.

    Jimmy Anderson is a Lancastrian.

    Just saying.
    So you're all Northerners then, each of you cut from the same cloth.
    And anyone who has watched GOT knows what happens to northerners.
    Yesterday I came up with a theory about how GoT is going to end and it's moderately depressing and no matter how much more I think about it, I can't stop myself thinking that it is the only way the story can actually end.
    Pray tell. My theory is that Daenerys ends on the throne with the Tyron as her Hand and Bran involved somehow. But that is too obvious, so Daenerys is bound to die a horrible death.
  • scotslassscotslass Posts: 912
    marktheowl

    I don't suppose you Labour folk ever considered getting yourselves an inspiring leader with an inspiring message to galvanise the nation as the SNP have been doing since 2007 - just a thought.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032
    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Just saw Joe Root was made MOTM. Brilliant hundred but how often does 1 player win a match in the way Jimmy did today? Involved in the first 6 wickets today.


    I know it's a batsman's game but that is ridiculous.

    It was punishment for Jimmy for running like a muppet and getting run out, and depriving Joe Root of at least a double hundred and possibly a triple hundred.
    You are a hard man TSE.
    I'm a Yorkshireman, from Sheffield.

    Joe Root is also from Sheffield.

    Jimmy Anderson is a Lancastrian.

    Just saying.
    So you're all Northerners then, each of you cut from the same cloth.
    And anyone who has watched GOT knows what happens to northerners.
    Yesterday I came up with a theory about how GoT is going to end and it's moderately depressing and no matter how much more I think about it, I can't stop myself thinking that it is the only way the story can actually end.
    Surely Denerys Tararyen is going to arrive with her dragons who will blow the white walkers etc away with fire and she ends up appointing Tyrion as her hand since he is the only one smart enough to run it. And practically everyone else you have ever read about is dead, of course.
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Just saw Joe Root was made MOTM. Brilliant hundred but how often does 1 player win a match in the way Jimmy did today? Involved in the first 6 wickets today.


    I know it's a batsman's game but that is ridiculous.

    It was punishment for Jimmy for running like a muppet and getting run out, and depriving Joe Root of at least a double hundred and possibly a triple hundred.
    You are a hard man TSE.
    I'm a Yorkshireman, from Sheffield.

    Joe Root is also from Sheffield.

    Jimmy Anderson is a Lancastrian.

    Just saying.
    So you're all Northerners then, each of you cut from the same cloth.
    And anyone who has watched GOT knows what happens to northerners.
    Yesterday I came up with a theory about how GoT is going to end and it's moderately depressing and no matter how much more I think about it, I can't stop myself thinking that it is the only way the story can actually end.
    Surely Denerys Tararyen is going to arrive with her dragons who will blow the white walkers etc away with fire and she ends up appointing Tyrion as her hand since he is the only one smart enough to run it. And practically everyone else you have ever read about is dead, of course.
    Game of thrones ends with L+R=J. Everyone knows this.
  • So more people in GB think Nicola Sturgeon is a more capable leader than Ed Miliband.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Updated SPUD
    The best way of telling the way the political wind is blowing

    3 polls today and the Conservatives equal their best score since the SPUDs were planted on Monday
    16 polls in all this week and 11 different pollsters

    (I have compared tonights YG w last Saturday's for the Times and tonight's Survation with their last for the MoS, not the one from earlier in the week)

    Day/Week
    Con 0 /-8
    Lab -5/-12
    UKIP +2/+7
    LD +1/+1
    Grn +3/+2

    Can you clarify how you get your figures? Is it purely adding up the poll changes per party? So one poll showing +2 and one showing +3 would give you a figure of +5???
    Exactly that

    I hope those extra question marks aren't implying disgust?!
    Not disgust, I just wonder how useful a metric it is to pause halfway through an average calculation.
    In the example I suggested, neither poll suggested a strong movement, but your method implies the opposite.
    Not really because if you don't think +3 and +2 are strong movements I don't see how +5 after 2 polls would be either... It would be the same

    I don't know what 'pause halfway through an average calculation ' relates to really if I'm honest
    Okay, how about this: four polls all show ` +1 move to party x, all MOE stuff. Your method shows +4, a >MOE move.

    as for "pause halfway through an average calculation", well it does exactly what it says on the tin... you added the scores, but neglected to divide by the number of scores to get an average.

    I suppose there could be some merit in that it could show the breadth of movement. A large figure could suggest that any movement is supported across a broad panel, but even then it unreliable as a rogue poll could skew the figures badly.

  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    edited April 2015
    MTimT said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Just saw Joe Root was made MOTM. Brilliant hundred but how often does 1 player win a match in the way Jimmy did today? Involved in the first 6 wickets today.


    I know it's a batsman's game but that is ridiculous.

    It was punishment for Jimmy for running like a muppet and getting run out, and depriving Joe Root of at least a double hundred and possibly a triple hundred.
    You are a hard man TSE.
    I'm a Yorkshireman, from Sheffield.

    Joe Root is also from Sheffield.

    Jimmy Anderson is a Lancastrian.

    Just saying.
    So you're all Northerners then, each of you cut from the same cloth.
    And anyone who has watched GOT knows what happens to northerners.
    Yesterday I came up with a theory about how GoT is going to end and it's moderately depressing and no matter how much more I think about it, I can't stop myself thinking that it is the only way the story can actually end.
    Pray tell. My theory is that Daenerys ends on the throne with the Tyron as her Hand and Bran involved somehow. But that is too obvious, so Daenerys is bound to die a horrible death.
    What came to me was this.

    The battle for the Iron throne will come down to Sansa vs Danaerys, Stanis and Littlefinger will end up dead, Dorn (probably with one of the Sand Snakes ruling) will ally with The North under Sansa and Danaerys will have returned to Westeros usurping the much diminished Lannisters.

    As we head to the final battle, a Nameless Man (which will be Arya) will be tasked with a job and sent back to Westeros. We won't know the job till it happens. And it will be the assasination of Sansa at Arya's hand.

    I can't see past this outcome. Not if the arc is coherent, this fills pretty much everything we know about GoT and will be a pretty Epic if desperately sad and potentially unfulfilling end. I've not read the books, only going by the show.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626

    So more people in GB think Nicola Sturgeon is a more capable leader than Ed Miliband.

    This can't be a surprising stat though, can it?
    She is a class act, regardless of what you think of her politics.

  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    Dair said:

    MTimT said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Just saw Joe Root was made MOTM. Brilliant hundred but how often does 1 player win a match in the way Jimmy did today? Involved in the first 6 wickets today.


    I know it's a batsman's game but that is ridiculous.

    It was punishment for Jimmy for running like a muppet and getting run out, and depriving Joe Root of at least a double hundred and possibly a triple hundred.
    You are a hard man TSE.
    I'm a Yorkshireman, from Sheffield.

    Joe Root is also from Sheffield.

    Jimmy Anderson is a Lancastrian.

    Just saying.
    So you're all Northerners then, each of you cut from the same cloth.
    And anyone who has watched GOT knows what happens to northerners.
    Yesterday I came up with a theory about how GoT is going to end and it's moderately depressing and no matter how much more I think about it, I can't stop myself thinking that it is the only way the story can actually end.
    Pray tell. My theory is that Daenerys ends on the throne with the Tyron as her Hand and Bran involved somehow. But that is too obvious, so Daenerys is bound to die a horrible death.
    What came to me was this.

    The battle for the Iron throne will come down to Sansa vs Danaerys, Stanis and Littlefinger will end up dead, Dorn will ally with The North under Sansa and Danaerys will have returned to Westeros usurping the much diminished Lannisters.

    As we head to the final battle, a Nameless Man (which will be Arya) will be tasked with a job and sent back to Westeros. We won't know the job till it happens. And it will be the assasination of Sansa at Arya's hand.

    I can't see past this outcome. Not if the arc is coherent, this fills pretty much everything we know about GoT and will be a pretty Epic if desperately sad and potentially unfulfilling end.
    Wasn't it you who slated me for giving away "spoilers" from the Marvel: Civil War comics?
  • Strange that this shows the conservatives most negative but also most positive!!!!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Just saw Joe Root was made MOTM. Brilliant hundred but how often does 1 player win a match in the way Jimmy did today? Involved in the first 6 wickets today.


    I know it's a batsman's game but that is ridiculous.

    It was punishment for Jimmy for running like a muppet and getting run out, and depriving Joe Root of at least a double hundred and possibly a triple hundred.
    You are a hard man TSE.
    I'm a Yorkshireman, from Sheffield.

    Joe Root is also from Sheffield.

    Jimmy Anderson is a Lancastrian.

    Just saying.
    So you're all Northerners then, each of you cut from the same cloth.
    And anyone who has watched GOT knows what happens to northerners.
    Yesterday I came up with a theory about how GoT is going to end and it's moderately depressing and no matter how much more I think about it, I can't stop myself thinking that it is the only way the story can actually end.
    Surely Denerys Tararyen is going to arrive with her dragons who will blow the white walkers etc away with fire and she ends up appointing Tyrion as her hand since he is the only one smart enough to run it. And practically everyone else you have ever read about is dead, of course.
    Game of thrones ends with L+R=J. Everyone knows this.
    I seriously hesitate to put a major spoiler on a site where many may be simply enjoying the TV series but there is a fairly obvious flaw with that being the denouement.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626

    Strange that this shows the conservatives most negative but also most positive!!!!
    Tory = Marmite
  • So more people in GB think Nicola Sturgeon is a more capable leader than Ed Miliband.

    This can't be a surprising stat though, can it?
    She is a class act, regardless of what you think of her politics.

    It isn't a surprise.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    edited April 2015

    Dair said:

    MTimT said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Just saw Joe Root was made MOTM. Brilliant hundred but how often does 1 player win a match in the way Jimmy did today? Involved in the first 6 wickets today.


    I know it's a batsman's game but that is ridiculous.

    It was punishment for Jimmy for running like a muppet and getting run out, and depriving Joe Root of at least a double hundred and possibly a triple hundred.
    You are a hard man TSE.
    I'm a Yorkshireman, from Sheffield.

    Joe Root is also from Sheffield.

    Jimmy Anderson is a Lancastrian.

    Just saying.
    So you're all Northerners then, each of you cut from the same cloth.
    And anyone who has watched GOT knows what happens to northerners.
    Yesterday I came up with a theory about how GoT is going to end and it's moderately depressing and no matter how much more I think about it, I can't stop myself thinking that it is the only way the story can actually end.
    Pray tell. My theory is that Daenerys ends on the throne with the Tyron as her Hand and Bran involved somehow. But that is too obvious, so Daenerys is bound to die a horrible death.
    What came to me was this.

    The battle for the Iron throne will come down to Sansa vs Danaerys, Stanis and Littlefinger will end up dead, Dorn will ally with The North under Sansa and Danaerys will have returned to Westeros usurping the much diminished Lannisters.

    As we head to the final battle, a Nameless Man (which will be Arya) will be tasked with a job and sent back to Westeros. We won't know the job till it happens. And it will be the assasination of Sansa at Arya's hand.

    I can't see past this outcome. Not if the arc is coherent, this fills pretty much everything we know about GoT and will be a pretty Epic if desperately sad and potentially unfulfilling end.
    Wasn't it you who slated me for giving away "spoilers" from the Marvel: Civil War comics?
    The last two books aren't written. As I understand it all the MCU stuff is already in the comics so it's actual spoilers not speculation.

    I'm guessing, lol. BTW in my prediction the Dragons are balanced against the White Walkers who are on Sansa's army under Bran's control. Forgot that bit. Again, the books aren't written its pure speculation.
  • So more people in GB think Nicola Sturgeon is a more capable leader than Ed Miliband.

    This can't be a surprising stat though, can it?
    She is a class act, regardless of what you think of her politics.

    It isn't a surprise.
    She is a class act but is virtually half the popularity of David Cameron (17 v 33) and Ed Miliband is only 15%
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    AnneJGP said:



    I always offer our tenants the option of a longer deal-I have had 4 (FOUR) so far this year who have taken up the chance of a 2 year deal.

    This is an issue that the property owning classes think is a great idea, but the renting classes might think is less than optimal idea.

    Very interested in this - my (very few and 2nd-party) brushes with renting, the would-be tenants have only ever been offered 6-month agreements. I thought that was all that was available.
    AnneJGP said:



    I always offer our tenants the option of a longer deal-I have had 4 (FOUR) so far this year who have taken up the chance of a 2 year deal.

    This is an issue that the property owning classes think is a great idea, but the renting classes might think is less than optimal idea.

    Very interested in this - my (very few and 2nd-party) brushes with renting, the would-be tenants have only ever been offered 6-month agreements. I thought that was all that was available.
    AnneJGP said:



    I always offer our tenants the option of a longer deal-I have had 4 (FOUR) so far this year who have taken up the chance of a 2 year deal.

    This is an issue that the property owning classes think is a great idea, but the renting classes might think is less than optimal idea.

    Very interested in this - my (very few and 2nd-party) brushes with renting, the would-be tenants have only ever been offered 6-month agreements. I thought that was all that was available.
    When I let my property ten years ago, I gave a good discount at the time to my tenant at that time, and I haven't put up the rent since then. I have also given her payment holidays depending on her circumstances. I could double the rent, but life is too short to exploit people. I use an agency- but tell them never to charge anything when they draw new contracts, and they don't.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,569


    Are PB lefties genuinely confident or is it just bravado?

    The national picture has been clear for a long time - the Tories will lose power if they don't establish a lead of at least 5%, and they've been more or less stuck around zero for 6 months. All three polls today show Labour improving or steady - a sudden leap to Tories +5 in 11 days would be startling.

    Roger said:

    Isn't this a leading question and wouldn't you expect an organization with the integrity of Survation to ask the Mail to try again?

    "The SNP are a party committed to Scottish independence and the break-up of the UK. They cannot be trusted to act in the best interests of the UK if they were part of the UK government"

    Best push poll for a long while.
    It's awesome!

    I did finally get two people asking about the SNP at a street stand today - one wanted me to promise no coalition, the other was very keen on working with Sturgeon. Both settled amiably for "no coalition but reasonable cooperation on issues", which is what I expect to happen.

    Incidentally, there was real enthusiasm evident, as danny's friend reports - lots of Labour voters really fired up now, as well as some cheeerfully defiant Tories.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    edited April 2015
    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    MTimT said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Just saw Joe Root was made MOTM. Brilliant hundred but how often does 1 player win a match in the way Jimmy did today? Involved in the first 6 wickets today.


    I know it's a batsman's game but that is ridiculous.

    It was punishment for Jimmy for running like a muppet and getting run out, and depriving Joe Root of at least a double hundred and possibly a triple hundred.
    You are a hard man TSE.
    I'm a Yorkshireman, from Sheffield.

    Joe Root is also from Sheffield.

    Jimmy Anderson is a Lancastrian.

    Just saying.
    So you're all Northerners then, each of you cut from the same cloth.
    And anyone who has watched GOT knows what happens to northerners.
    Yesterday I came up with a theory about how GoT is going to end and it's moderately depressing and no matter how much more I think about it, I can't stop myself thinking that it is the only way the story can actually end.
    Pray tell. My theory is that Daenerys ends on the throne with the Tyron as her Hand and Bran involved somehow. But that is too obvious, so Daenerys is bound to die a horrible death.
    What came to me was this.



    As we head to the final battle, a Nameless Man (which will be Arya) will be tasked with a job and sent back to Westeros. We won't know the job till it happens. And it will be the assasination of Sansa at Arya's hand.

    I can't see past this outcome. Not if the arc is coherent, this fills pretty much everything we know about GoT and will be a pretty Epic if desperately sad and potentially unfulfilling end.
    Wasn't it you who slated me for giving away "spoilers" from the Marvel: Civil War comics?
    The last two books aren't written. As I understand it all the MCU stuff is already in the comics so it's actual spoilers not speculation.

    I'm guessing, lol. BTW in my prediction the Dragons are balanced against the White Walkers who are on Sansa's army under Bran's control. Forgot that bit. Again, the books aren't written its pure speculation.
    In the same way I was speculating about a film that is yet to be made...

    I've watched about half of S1 of GoT, everything posted in the last few mins is spoilers from my PoV

    Edit: Not that I care, but seems to me you are doing that which you complained about.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032
    Dair said:

    MTimT said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Just saw Joe Root was made MOTM. Brilliant hundred but how often does 1 player win a match in the way Jimmy did today? Involved in the first 6 wickets today.


    I know it's a batsman's game but that is ridiculous.

    It was punishment for Jimmy for running like a muppet and getting run out, and depriving Joe Root of at least a double hundred and possibly a triple hundred.
    You are a hard man TSE.
    I'm a Yorkshireman, from Sheffield.

    Joe Root is also from Sheffield.

    Jimmy Anderson is a Lancastrian.

    Just saying.
    So you're all Northerners then, each of you cut from the same cloth.
    And anyone who has watched GOT knows what happens to northerners.
    Yesterday I came up with a theory about how GoT is going to end and it's moderately depressing and no matter how much more I think about it, I can't stop myself thinking that it is the only way the story can actually end.
    Pray tell. My theory is that Daenerys ends on the throne with the Tyron as her Hand and Bran involved somehow. But that is too obvious, so Daenerys is bound to die a horrible death.
    What came to me was this.

    The battle for the Iron throne will come down to Sansa vs Danaerys, Stanis and Littlefinger will end up dead, Dorn (probably with one of the Sand Snakes ruling) will ally with The North under Sansa and Danaerys will have returned to Westeros usurping the much diminished Lannisters.

    As we head to the final battle, a Nameless Man (which will be Arya) will be tasked with a job and sent back to Westeros. We won't know the job till it happens. And it will be the assasination of Sansa at Arya's hand.

    I can't see past this outcome. Not if the arc is coherent, this fills pretty much everything we know about GoT and will be a pretty Epic if desperately sad and potentially unfulfilling end. I've not read the books, only going by the show.
    Sansa is a wimp. She will come to a sticky end as all wimps do in GOT (and anyone with a shade of decency as well and most people with a pulse and those without a pulse and...well you get the idea.

    Arya will have a role to play and may even survive. She may end up married to Tyrion to unite what is left of the houses. Or she may die. She is a Stark after all.

  • Are PB lefties genuinely confident or is it just bravado?

    The national picture has been clear for a long time - the Tories will lose power if they don't establish a lead of at least 5%, and they've been more or less stuck around zero for 6 months. All three polls today show Labour improving or steady - a sudden leap to Tories +5 in 11 days would be startling.

    Roger said:

    Isn't this a leading question and wouldn't you expect an organization with the integrity of Survation to ask the Mail to try again?

    "The SNP are a party committed to Scottish independence and the break-up of the UK. They cannot be trusted to act in the best interests of the UK if they were part of the UK government"

    Best push poll for a long while.
    It's awesome!

    I did finally get two people asking about the SNP at a street stand today - one wanted me to promise no coalition, the other was very keen on working with Sturgeon. Both settled amiably for "no coalition but reasonable cooperation on issues", which is what I expect to happen.

    Incidentally, there was real enthusiasm evident, as danny's friend reports - lots of Labour voters really fired up now, as well as some cheeerfully defiant Tories.
    To be honest Nick I don't see the point of the ballot in Broxtowe - you clearly see it as won
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Just saw Joe Root was made MOTM. Brilliant hundred but how often does 1 player win a match in the way Jimmy did today? Involved in the first 6 wickets today.


    I know it's a batsman's game but that is ridiculous.

    It was punishment for Jimmy for running like a muppet and getting run out, and depriving Joe Root of at least a double hundred and possibly a triple hundred.
    You are a hard man TSE.
    I'm a Yorkshireman, from Sheffield.

    Joe Root is also from Sheffield.

    Jimmy Anderson is a Lancastrian.

    Just saying.
    So you're all Northerners then, each of you cut from the same cloth.
    And anyone who has watched GOT knows what happens to northerners.
    Yesterday I came up with a theory about how GoT is going to end and it's moderately depressing and no matter how much more I think about it, I can't stop myself thinking that it is the only way the story can actually end.
    Surely Denerys Tararyen is going to arrive with her dragons who will blow the white walkers etc away with fire and she ends up appointing Tyrion as her hand since he is the only one smart enough to run it. And practically everyone else you have ever read about is dead, of course.
    Game of thrones ends with L+R=J. Everyone knows this.
    Meh, my theory ignored Jon Snow.

    Doesn't matter though. He knows nothing.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Just saw Joe Root was made MOTM. Brilliant hundred but how often does 1 player win a match in the way Jimmy did today? Involved in the first 6 wickets today.


    I know it's a batsman's game but that is ridiculous.

    It was punishment for Jimmy for running like a muppet and getting run out, and depriving Joe Root of at least a double hundred and possibly a triple hundred.
    You are a hard man TSE.
    I'm a Yorkshireman, from Sheffield.

    Joe Root is also from Sheffield.

    Jimmy Anderson is a Lancastrian.

    Just saying.
    So you're all Northerners then, each of you cut from the same cloth.
    And anyone who has watched GOT knows what happens to northerners.
    Yesterday I came up with a theory about how GoT is going to end and it's moderately depressing and no matter how much more I think about it, I can't stop myself thinking that it is the only way the story can actually end.
    Surely Denerys Tararyen is going to arrive with her dragons who will blow the white walkers etc away with fire and she ends up appointing Tyrion as her hand since he is the only one smart enough to run it. And practically everyone else you have ever read about is dead, of course.
    Game of thrones ends with L+R=J. Everyone knows this.
    I seriously hesitate to put a major spoiler on a site where many may be simply enjoying the TV series but there is a fairly obvious flaw with that being the denouement.
    I think the show is entirely caught up with the books now, everything is speculation and not spoilers now.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Updated SPUD
    The best way of telling the way the political wind is blowing

    3 polls today and the Conservatives equal their best score since the SPUDs were planted on Monday
    16 polls in all this week and 11 different pollsters

    (I have compared tonights YG w last Saturday's for the Times and tonight's Survation with their last for the MoS, not the one from earlier in the week)

    Day/Week
    Con 0 /-8
    Lab -5/-12
    UKIP +2/+7
    LD +1/+1
    Grn +3/+2

    Can you clarify how you get your figures? Is it purely adding up the poll changes per party? So one poll showing +2 and one showing +3 would give you a figure of +5???
    Exactly that

    I hope those extra question marks aren't implying disgust?!
    Not disgust, I just wonder how useful a metric it is to pause halfway through an average calculation.
    In the example I suggested, neither poll suggested a strong movement, but your method implies the opposite.
    Not really because if you don't think +3 and +2 are strong movements I don't see how +5 after 2 polls would be either... It would be the same

    I don't know what 'pause halfway through an average calculation ' relates to really if I'm honest
    Okay, how about this: four polls all show ` +1 move to party x, all MOE stuff. Your method shows +4, a >MOE move.

    as for "pause halfway through an average calculation", well it does exactly what it says on the tin... you added the scores, but neglected to divide by the number of scores to get an average.

    I suppose there could be some merit in that it could show the breadth of movement. A large figure could suggest that any movement is supported across a broad panel, but even then it unreliable as a rogue poll could skew the figures badly.

    Yes exactly it shows the breadth of movement

    As I say it is to tell which way the wind is blowing, nothing more

    I liked to test the 'xxxx have got the mo' posts from partisans against some data that's all

    And all the criticisms you make are kind of negated by the fact I say how many polls and different pollsters are used each time I update.. It really can't be harder to do the division yourself rather than type a post asking why I don't can it?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032
    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Just saw Joe Root was made MOTM. Brilliant hundred but how often does 1 player win a match in the way Jimmy did today? Involved in the first 6 wickets today.


    I know it's a batsman's game but that is ridiculous.

    It was punishment for Jimmy for running like a muppet and getting run out, and depriving Joe Root of at least a double hundred and possibly a triple hundred.
    You are a hard man TSE.
    I'm a Yorkshireman, from Sheffield.

    Joe Root is also from Sheffield.

    Jimmy Anderson is a Lancastrian.

    Just saying.
    So you're all Northerners then, each of you cut from the same cloth.
    And anyone who has watched GOT knows what happens to northerners.
    Yesterday I came up with a theory about how GoT is going to end and it's moderately depressing and no matter how much more I think about it, I can't stop myself thinking that it is the only way the story can actually end.
    Surely Denerys Tararyen is going to arrive with her dragons who will blow the white walkers etc away with fire and she ends up appointing Tyrion as her hand since he is the only one smart enough to run it. And practically everyone else you have ever read about is dead, of course.
    Game of thrones ends with L+R=J. Everyone knows this.
    I seriously hesitate to put a major spoiler on a site where many may be simply enjoying the TV series but there is a fairly obvious flaw with that being the denouement.
    I think the show is entirely caught up with the books now, everything is speculation and not spoilers now.
    Nope. They haven't.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    MTimT said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Just saw Joe Root was made MOTM. Brilliant hundred but how often does 1 player win a match in the way Jimmy did today? Involved in the first 6 wickets today.


    I know it's a batsman's game but that is ridiculous.

    It was punishment for Jimmy for running like a muppet and getting run out, and depriving Joe Root of at least a double hundred and possibly a triple hundred.
    You are a hard man TSE.
    I'm a Yorkshireman, from Sheffield.

    Joe Root is also from Sheffield.

    Jimmy Anderson is a Lancastrian.

    Just saying.
    So you're all Northerners then, each of you cut from the same cloth.
    And anyone who has watched GOT knows what happens to northerners.
    Yesterday I came up with a theory about how GoT is going to end and it's moderately depressing and no matter how much more I think about it, I can't stop myself thinking that it is the only way the story can actually end.
    Pray tell. My theory is that Daenerys ends on the throne with the Tyron as her Hand and Bran involved somehow. But that is too obvious, so Daenerys is bound to die a horrible death.
    What came to me was this.

    The battle for the Iron throne will come down to Sansa vs Danaerys, Stanis and Littlefinger will end up dead, Dorn (probably with one of the Sand Snakes ruling) will ally with The North under Sansa and Danaerys will have returned to Westeros usurping the much diminished Lannisters.

    As we head to the final battle, a Nameless Man (which will be Arya) will be tasked with a job and sent back to Westeros. We won't know the job till it happens. And it will be the assasination of Sansa at Arya's hand.

    I can't see past this outcome. Not if the arc is coherent, this fills pretty much everything we know about GoT and will be a pretty Epic if desperately sad and potentially unfulfilling end. I've not read the books, only going by the show.
    Sansa is a wimp. She will come to a sticky end as all wimps do in GOT (and anyone with a shade of decency as well and most people with a pulse and those without a pulse and...well you get the idea.

    Arya will have a role to play and may even survive. She may end up married to Tyrion to unite what is left of the houses. Or she may die. She is a Stark after all.
    I don't think she is a Stark any more. Or at least not for much longer.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117


    Are PB lefties genuinely confident or is it just bravado?

    The national picture has been clear for a long time - the Tories will lose power if they don't establish a lead of at least 5%, and they've been more or less stuck around zero for 6 months. All three polls today show Labour improving or steady - a sudden leap to Tories +5 in 11 days would be startling.

    Roger said:

    Isn't this a leading question and wouldn't you expect an organization with the integrity of Survation to ask the Mail to try again?

    "The SNP are a party committed to Scottish independence and the break-up of the UK. They cannot be trusted to act in the best interests of the UK if they were part of the UK government"

    Best push poll for a long while.
    It's awesome!

    I did finally get two people asking about the SNP at a street stand today - one wanted me to promise no coalition, the other was very keen on working with Sturgeon. Both settled amiably for "no coalition but reasonable cooperation on issues", which is what I expect to happen.

    Incidentally, there was real enthusiasm evident, as danny's friend reports - lots of Labour voters really fired up now, as well as some cheeerfully defiant Tories.
    To be honest Nick I don't see the point of the ballot in Broxtowe - you clearly see it as won
    No one wants to win an election on a squeak and a prayer. It just makes them feel vulnerable. It is in Nick's and his parties interests to secure as many votes as possible, and to make an extremely marginal seat less marginal. MP's in safe seats take comfort in making safe seats safer.
  • trubluetrublue Posts: 103

    Some PB Labour supporters seem almost complacently confident today which is a bit surprising given that today's polls including the Ashcroft marginals polls seem ok for the Tories. Survation has a 3 point Tory lead plus a big Kipper vote share which on the day could translate into a healthy Tory lead, especially if the undecided break blue and the can't be arseds can't be arsed. April pay packets will cause many undecided to muse too.

    Are PB lefties genuinely confident or is it just bravado?

    A late swing probably won't be sufficient. With postal voting expected to be up on 2010's already high figures, it will need a monsoon to the blue on polling day to change the outcome.

    I'm also concerned by talk of conservatives already sounding out potential leaders, and plenty of blues supporters and donors already writing off the campaign. It's starting to feel like the writing is on the wall.

    I think the lefties have every reason to feel confident.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108


    In the same way I was speculating about a film that is yet to be made...

    I've watched about half of S1 of GoT, everything posted in the last few mins is spoilers from my PoV

    Edit: Not that I care, but seems to me you are doing that which you complained about.

    As I said, my understanding is that MCU is following the comics, therefore it isn't speculation, it's spoilers. If it's not writtern then it's fair game for speculation.

    In fairness all I asked is that for a Binge Dump series - Daredevil - it might be worth giving a few weeks before discussing it. Waiting four years might seem a bit beyond what's reasonable.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Updated SPUD
    The best way of telling the way the political wind is blowing

    3 polls today and the Conservatives equal their best score since the SPUDs were planted on Monday
    16 polls in all this week and 11 different pollsters

    (I have compared tonights YG w last Saturday's for the Times and tonight's Survation with their last for the MoS, not the one from earlier in the week)

    Day/Week
    Con 0 /-8
    Lab -5/-12
    UKIP +2/+7
    LD +1/+1
    Grn +3/+2

    Can you clarify how you get your figures? Is it purely adding up the poll changes per party? So one poll showing +2 and one showing +3 would give you a figure of +5???
    Exactly that

    I hope those extra question marks aren't implying disgust?!
    Not disgust, I just wonder how useful a metric it is to pause halfway through an average calculation.
    In the example I suggested, neither poll suggested a strong movement, but your method implies the opposite.
    Not really because if you don't think +3 and +2 are strong movements I don't see how +5 after 2 polls would be either... It would be the same

    I don't know what 'pause halfway through an average calculation ' relates to really if I'm honest
    Okay, how about this: four polls all show ` +1 move to party x, all MOE stuff. Your method shows +4, a >MOE move.

    as for "pause halfway through an average calculation", well it does exactly what it says on the tin... you added the scores, but neglected to divide by the number of scores to get an average.

    I suppose there could be some merit in that it could show the breadth of movement. A large figure could suggest that any movement is supported across a broad panel, but even then it unreliable as a rogue poll could skew the figures badly.

    Yes exactly it shows the breadth of movement

    As I say it is to tell which way the wind is blowing, nothing more

    I liked to test the 'xxxx have got the mo' posts from partisans against some data that's all

    And all the criticisms you make are kind of negated by the fact I say how many polls and different pollsters are used each time I update.. It really can't be harder to do the division yourself rather than type a post asking why I don't can it?
    Ha, fair point.

    Bit my concern still stands.

    Even giving the number of polls in a sample still doesn't detract from the problem that your headline figures are unreliable.
    I think you are more likely to see movement where there is none, but strangely it could also be good at reducing noisy data too.. I just don't think it adds much to the mix TBH, bit kudos for putting yourself out there.

  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    Dair said:


    In the same way I was speculating about a film that is yet to be made...

    I've watched about half of S1 of GoT, everything posted in the last few mins is spoilers from my PoV

    Edit: Not that I care, but seems to me you are doing that which you complained about.

    As I said, my understanding is that MCU is following the comics, therefore it isn't speculation, it's spoilers. If it's not writtern then it's fair game for speculation.

    In fairness all I asked is that for a Binge Dump series - Daredevil - it might be worth giving a few weeks before discussing it. Waiting four years might seem a bit beyond what's reasonable.
    The MCU doesn't follow the comics, it uses the comics as a platform... Which version of Daredevil (out of the many) did you think was used as the basis of all of the character deaths (who I won't name) in the Netflix adaptation?

    Who wrote the version of Thor and Loki that we've seen on screen?

    etc, etc...
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Just saw Joe Root was made MOTM. Brilliant hundred but how often does 1 player win a match in the way Jimmy did today? Involved in the first 6 wickets today.


    I know it's a batsman's game but that is ridiculous.

    It was punishment for Jimmy for running like a muppet and getting run out, and depriving Joe Root of at least a double hundred and possibly a triple hundred.
    You are a hard man TSE.
    I'm a Yorkshireman, from Sheffield.

    Joe Root is also from Sheffield.

    Jimmy Anderson is a Lancastrian.

    Just saying.
    So you're all Northerners then, each of you cut from the same cloth.
    And anyone who has watched GOT knows what happens to northerners.
    Yesterday I came up with a theory about how GoT is going to end and it's moderately depressing and no matter how much more I think about it, I can't stop myself thinking that it is the only way the story can actually end.
    Surely Denerys Tararyen is going to arrive with her dragons who will blow the white walkers etc away with fire and she ends up appointing Tyrion as her hand since he is the only one smart enough to run it. And practically everyone else you have ever read about is dead, of course.
    Game of thrones ends with L+R=J. Everyone knows this.
    I seriously hesitate to put a major spoiler on a site where many may be simply enjoying the TV series but there is a fairly obvious flaw with that being the denouement.
    I think the show is entirely caught up with the books now, everything is speculation and not spoilers now.
    Nope. They haven't.
    My mistake, I've not read them deliberately so anything I do say is purely speculative. How much more till it's always ahead? End of Season 5?
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited April 2015


    Are PB lefties genuinely confident or is it just bravado?

    The national picture has been clear for a long time - the Tories will lose power if they don't establish a lead of at least 5%, and they've been more or less stuck around zero for 6 months. All three polls today show Labour improving or steady - a sudden leap to Tories +5 in 11 days would be startling.

    Roger said:

    Isn't this a leading question and wouldn't you expect an organization with the integrity of Survation to ask the Mail to try again?

    "The SNP are a party committed to Scottish independence and the break-up of the UK. They cannot be trusted to act in the best interests of the UK if they were part of the UK government"

    Best push poll for a long while.
    It's awesome!

    I did finally get two people asking about the SNP at a street stand today - one wanted me to promise no coalition, the other was very keen on working with Sturgeon. Both settled amiably for "no coalition but reasonable cooperation on issues", which is what I expect to happen.

    Incidentally, there was real enthusiasm evident, as danny's friend reports - lots of Labour voters really fired up now, as well as some cheeerfully defiant Tories.
    To be honest Nick I don't see the point of the ballot in Broxtowe - you clearly see it as won
    They're just going through the motions. Palmer's already popped the champagne corks, and is idling his time before a Sheffield/Kinnock style victory rally on May 7th.

    The issue of politicians discussing alliances and cooking up agreements before the electorate have even been allowed to vote, came up on Any Questions last week. It won't go down well with the public, as it seems as if their democratic rights count for little compared to the lust for power and sheer greed of MPs.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    RobD said:
    Ha, was about to post the exact same!
  • marktheowlmarktheowl Posts: 169
    scotslass said:

    marktheowl

    I don't suppose you Labour folk ever considered getting yourselves an inspiring leader with an inspiring message to galvanise the nation as the SNP have been doing since 2007 - just a thought.

    Or alternatively, Ed Miliband has had entirely different things to contend with than Sturgeon and so hasn't been able to be populist on spending (even though the IFS worked out they'd continue austerity), nor can he appeal to nationalism - alongside Scottish Labour's failures and structural collapse, the driving forces behind the SNP's success. I wouldn't describe Salmond as inspiring either - a brilliant politician who knows exactly how to manufacture and take political opportunties, but not inspiring. Sturgeon is evidently more so, but I still think her key attribute is how to spot and exploit opportunities. Turning David Cameron's ill-thought out speech (or was it?) the day after the Indyref into a broken promise and rallying cry was a masterpiece of her craft.

    I think if he loses and his political obituary is written, Ed Miliband won't go down as a bad Labour leader - but one who attempted to reconcile the forces tearing at the Labour party (and the Tories too btw in other forms), as well as a great deal of personal hostility towards him from the tabloids and mid-market press, and couldn't quite get over the line due to a strange spell in 2014 when he seemed to lose his mojo for a bit.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032
    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Just saw Joe Root was made MOTM. Brilliant hundred but how often does 1 player win a match in the way Jimmy did today? Involved in the first 6 wickets today.


    I know it's a batsman's game but that is ridiculous.

    It was punishment for Jimmy for running like a muppet and getting run out, and depriving Joe Root of at least a double hundred and possibly a triple hundred.
    You are a hard man TSE.
    I'm a Yorkshireman, from Sheffield.

    Joe Root is also from Sheffield.

    Jimmy Anderson is a Lancastrian.

    Just saying.
    So you're all Northerners then, each of you cut from the same cloth.
    And anyone who has watched GOT knows what happens to northerners.
    Yesterday I came up with a theory about how GoT is going to end and it's moderately depressing and no matter how much more I think about it, I can't stop myself thinking that it is the only way the story can actually end.
    Surely Denerys Tararyen is going to arrive with her dragons who will blow the white walkers etc away with fire and she ends up appointing Tyrion as her hand since he is the only one smart enough to run it. And practically everyone else you have ever read about is dead, of course.
    Game of thrones ends with L+R=J. Everyone knows this.
    I seriously hesitate to put a major spoiler on a site where many may be simply enjoying the TV series but there is a fairly obvious flaw with that being the denouement.
    I think the show is entirely caught up with the books now, everything is speculation and not spoilers now.
    Nope. They haven't.
    My mistake, I've not read them deliberately so anything I do say is purely speculative. How much more till it's always ahead? End of Season 5?
    Its a bit confusing because they have tried harder than the books did to try and keep some sort of chronological coherence between the various story threads. The result is that some of the latest book has already been done for some of the characters but quite a lot more still has to run for some others.

    I would guess by the end of this series at least some of the characters will be going beyond the books published to date.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    trublue said:

    Some PB Labour supporters seem almost complacently confident today which is a bit surprising given that today's polls including the Ashcroft marginals polls seem ok for the Tories. Survation has a 3 point Tory lead plus a big Kipper vote share which on the day could translate into a healthy Tory lead, especially if the undecided break blue and the can't be arseds can't be arsed. April pay packets will cause many undecided to muse too.

    Are PB lefties genuinely confident or is it just bravado?

    A late swing probably won't be sufficient. With postal voting expected to be up on 2010's already high figures, it will need a monsoon to the blue on polling day to change the outcome.

    I'm also concerned by talk of conservatives already sounding out potential leaders, and plenty of blues supporters and donors already writing off the campaign. It's starting to feel like the writing is on the wall.

    I think the lefties have every reason to feel confident.
    I'm starting to feel, mildly confident, and I am the most risk averse, nervous, scaredy lefty you could find. So fair do to the other lefties who have been more persuaded by the situation.
    I am such a nervous lefty that I am already fearing the right wing backlash, Boris Johnson and the first Tory majority in nearly 30 years come 2020.

  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Dair said:


    In the same way I was speculating about a film that is yet to be made...

    I've watched about half of S1 of GoT, everything posted in the last few mins is spoilers from my PoV

    Edit: Not that I care, but seems to me you are doing that which you complained about.

    As I said, my understanding is that MCU is following the comics, therefore it isn't speculation, it's spoilers. If it's not writtern then it's fair game for speculation.

    In fairness all I asked is that for a Binge Dump series - Daredevil - it might be worth giving a few weeks before discussing it. Waiting four years might seem a bit beyond what's reasonable.
    The MCU doesn't follow the comics, it uses the comics as a platform... Which version of Daredevil (out of the many) did you think was used as the basis of all of the character deaths (who I won't name) in the Netflix adaptation?

    Who wrote the version of Thor and Loki that we've seen on screen?

    etc, etc...
    The whole multiple versions thing does tend to get beyond me. It's probably why I've never really gotten into comics. Although I will say, in terms of the CW version of The Flash they might (might) be trying to implement that in a TV series. There's some weird fan service in that show linking it to a previous version (as well as some amazing fan service aimed at everyone).
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    a single party state in effect,

    I shudder at the prospect
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited April 2015
    WTF...Wouldn't even need a mini-bus for the minor parties, a Ford Focus would do the job. Scots not thinking much of Milifandom.

    I think you can definitely stick your UNS calculators up your [beep] this GE.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    +5 vs -3 - Don't Knows making up their mind and helping SNP and Tories.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    I've plugged today's polls into the Locus algorithm (which has been tweaked slightly because it was a bit kind to the Lib Dems) and out comes:

    Con 298 Lab 264 LD 16 Ukip 2 Green 1 SNP 48

    I think this would keep Cameron in power.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Updated SPUD
    The best way of telling the way the political wind is blowing

    3 polls today and the Conservatives equal their best score since the SPUDs were planted on Monday
    16 polls in all this week and 11 different pollsters

    (I have compared tonights YG w last Saturday's for the Times and tonight's Survation with their last for the MoS, not the one from earlier in the week)

    Day/Week
    Con 0 /-8
    Lab -5/-12
    UKIP +2/+7
    LD +1/+1
    Grn +3/+2

    adding up would give you a figure of +5???
    Exactly that

    I hope those extra question marks aren't implying disgust?!
    Not disgust, I just wonder how useful a metric it is to pause halfway through an average calculation.
    In the example I suggested, neither poll suggested a strong movement, but your method implies the opposite.
    I don't know what 'pause halfway through an average calculation ' relates to really if I'm honest


    Yes exactly it shows the breadth of movement

    As I say it is to tell which way the wind is blowing, nothing more

    I liked to test the 'xxxx have got the mo' posts from partisans against some data that's all

    And all the criticisms you make are kind of negated by the fact I say how many polls and different pollsters are used each time I update.. It really can't be harder to do the division yourself rather than type a post asking why I don't can it?
    Ha, fair point.

    Bit my concern still stands.

    Even giving the number of polls in a sample still doesn't detract from the problem that your headline figures are unreliable.
    I think you are more likely to see movement where there is none, but strangely it could also be good at reducing noisy data too.. I just don't think it adds much to the mix TBH, bit kudos for putting yourself out there.

    Well it might be a load of noise who knows?

    I also like to see the anger vented by people who want the figures to be something else!

    But another reason I did it was to try and cut through the pathetic and childish 'it's been a good week for xxx but only because such and such a pollster is good for them'... Or the reverse

    So I thought if i just measured the difference between polls from individual pollsters that excuse couldn't be used I am are comparing for instance survation vs survation in Ukips case, so the pro Ukip bias in both polls is irrelevant
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032
    Dair said:

    +5 vs -3 - Don't Knows making up their mind and helping SNP and Tories.
    Yep, its that old Tory/SNP alliance. You cannae whack it.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    edited April 2015
    Dair said:

    Dair said:


    In the same way I was speculating about a film that is yet to be made...

    I've watched about half of S1 of GoT, everything posted in the last few mins is spoilers from my PoV

    Edit: Not that I care, but seems to me you are doing that which you complained about.

    As I said, my understanding is that MCU is following the comics, therefore it isn't speculation, it's spoilers. If it's not writtern then it's fair game for speculation.

    In fairness all I asked is that for a Binge Dump series - Daredevil - it might be worth giving a few weeks before discussing it. Waiting four years might seem a bit beyond what's reasonable.
    The MCU doesn't follow the comics, it uses the comics as a platform... Which version of Daredevil (out of the many) did you think was used as the basis of all of the character deaths (who I won't name) in the Netflix adaptation?

    Who wrote the version of Thor and Loki that we've seen on screen?

    etc, etc...
    The whole multiple versions thing does tend to get beyond me. It's probably why I've never really gotten into comics. Although I will say, in terms of the CW version of The Flash they might (might) be trying to implement that in a TV series. There's some weird fan service in that show linking it to a previous version (as well as some amazing fan service aimed at everyone).
    Was never much of a DC fan, but started watching Flash recently... it is good!

    My point was that discussing comics versus the films is fine in that the films only loosely base their plots on the source material, much of which is decades old. Suff like GoT is based on one source, or original screenplay - discussing that in detail is worse.

    Again, not that I care... just pointing out the hypocrisy ;-)
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    Survation
    "Would you consider voting Conservative to stop the possibility of a Labour/SNP coalition government? Base: All VI that isn't Conservative or SNP"

    Yes
    Labour 6%
    LD 43%
    UKIP 37%

    p.57

    There is one big problem with that. There isn't a "Voting Conservative to stop the possibility of a Labour/SNP coalition" Party to vote for and seeing as the election is so unpredictable, that statement is just another reason for people who will vote aganst Labour, to vote against Labour.
    I'd like to see someone poll "Would you consider voting Labour to stop the possibility of a Labour/SNP coalition".
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    TSE The Tories will at least win Roxburgh I would imagine
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Ed Miliband has had entirely different things to contend with than Sturgeon and so hasn't been able to be populist on spending (even though the IFS worked out they'd continue austerity)

    No, they didn't.

    The classed "reducing the deficit" as "austerity" when there is no link whatsoever between the two. The SNP will reduce the deficit through growth and higher tax take, while increasing spending. This is not "austerity". The IFS are lying and/or the Press mis-reporting.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    SeanT said:


    Are PB lefties genuinely confident or is it just bravado?

    The national picture has been clear for a long time - the Tories will lose power if they don't establish a lead of at least 5%, and they've been more or less stuck around zero for 6 months. All three polls today show Labour improving or steady - a sudden leap to Tories +5 in 11 days would be startling.

    Roger said:

    Isn't this a leading question and wouldn't you expect an organization with the integrity of Survation to ask the Mail to try again?

    "The SNP are a party committed to Scottish independence and the break-up of the UK. They cannot be trusted to act in the best interests of the UK if they were part of the UK government"

    Best push poll for a long while.
    It's awesome!

    I did finally get two people asking about the SNP at a street stand today - one wanted me to promise no coalition, the other was very keen on working with Sturgeon. Both settled amiably for "no coalition but reasonable cooperation on issues", which is what I expect to happen.

    Incidentally, there was real enthusiasm evident, as danny's friend reports - lots of Labour voters really fired up now, as well as some cheeerfully defiant Tories.
    Palmer versus Soubry.

    Jeez. Can't you both lose?

    Post. Of. The. Year.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    We all know another vote is coming if these polls are repeated at the GE.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032
    Dair said:

    Ed Miliband has had entirely different things to contend with than Sturgeon and so hasn't been able to be populist on spending (even though the IFS worked out they'd continue austerity)

    No, they didn't.

    The classed "reducing the deficit" as "austerity" when there is no link whatsoever between the two. The SNP will reduce the deficit through growth and higher tax take, while increasing spending. This is not "austerity". The IFS are lying and/or the Press mis-reporting.
    If you want fantasy Dair stick to GOT. Honestly, its a lot more realistic.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    SeanT said:

    a single party state in effect,

    I shudder at the prospect
    It's the wisdom-of-crowds. The best possible result for Scots in Westminster is a huge phalanx of Scots in Westminster, with maximum leverage over a weak UK govt (of right or left).

    I suspect, however, this will be Peak SNP. Scots will look at the North Korean result with faint revulsion, in retrospect, and ensure that it is not repeated in Holyrood in 2016.

    I do not believe Sturgeon will get close to a Holyrood majority. Therefore there will be no 2nd referendum (which Sturgeon doesn't want, anyway, see her sudden aversion to fiscal autonomy).
    I pray to your god that you're right.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Just saw Joe Root was made MOTM. Brilliant hundred but how often does 1 player win a match in the way Jimmy did today? Involved in the first 6 wickets today.


    I know it's a batsman's game but that is ridiculous.

    It was punishment for Jimmy for running like a muppet and getting run out, and depriving Joe Root of at least a double hundred and possibly a triple hundred.
    You are a hard man TSE.
    I'm a Yorkshireman, from Sheffield.

    Joe Root is also from Sheffield.

    Jimmy Anderson is a Lancastrian.

    Just saying.
    So you're all Northerners then, each of you cut from the same cloth.
    And anyone who has watched GOT knows what happens to northerners.
    Yesterday I came up with a theory about how GoT is going to end and it's moderately depressing and no matter how much more I think about it, I can't stop myself thinking that it is the only way the story can actually end.
    Surely Denerys Tararyen is going to arrive with her dragons who will blow the white walkers etc away with fire and she ends up appointing Tyrion as her hand since he is the only one smart enough to run it. And practically everyone else you have ever read about is dead, of course.
    Game of thrones ends with L+R=J. Everyone knows this.
    I seriously hesitate to put a major spoiler on a site where many may be simply enjoying the TV series but there is a fairly obvious flaw with that being the denouement.
    I think the show is entirely caught up with the books now, everything is speculation and not spoilers now.
    Nope. They haven't.
    My mistake, I've not read them deliberately so anything I do say is purely speculative. How much more till it's always ahead? End of Season 5?
    I picked up the first book in a bookshop and sampled some of it. It was unreadable - amazing given how addicting the TV series is.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited April 2015
    FU If a second referendum is held and No win 51-49% that would kill independence for good, as it did in Quebec with exactly those figures
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,546

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Just saw Joe Root was made MOTM. Brilliant hundred but how often does 1 player win a match in the way Jimmy did today? Involved in the first 6 wickets today.


    I know it's a batsman's game but that is ridiculous.

    It was punishment for Jimmy for running like a muppet and getting run out, and depriving Joe Root of at least a double hundred and possibly a triple hundred.
    You are a hard man TSE.
    I'm a Yorkshireman, from Sheffield.

    Joe Root is also from Sheffield.

    Jimmy Anderson is a Lancastrian.

    Just saying.
    So you're all Northerners then, each of you cut from the same cloth.
    And anyone who has watched GOT knows what happens to northerners.
    Yesterday I came up with a theory about how GoT is going to end and it's moderately depressing and no matter how much more I think about it, I can't stop myself thinking that it is the only way the story can actually end.
    Surely Denerys Tararyen is going to arrive with her dragons who will blow the white walkers etc away with fire and she ends up appointing Tyrion as her hand since he is the only one smart enough to run it. And practically everyone else you have ever read about is dead, of course.
    Game of thrones ends with L+R=J. Everyone knows this.
    Most readers have already come to that conclusion, IMHO.

  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    a single party state in effect,

    I shudder at the prospect
    Yeah it's much better to have Imposed government by 35% of the electorate due to electoral quirks than have a party voted for by 50% of the population.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    The people upstairs are annoying tonight... seems they have some friends round and the music is up. Wouldn't mind but it seems to be some pop/funk shit...
    Tempted to play some loud Pantera or similar, but then the reality of 2 sleeping children looms.

    Sigh
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited April 2015
    SeanT Of course in 2011 the SNP won 53 constituency seats at Holyrood, Labour 15, the Tories 3 and LDs two, the Westminster result will likely be similar and just a catch up from the situation already present in the Scottish Parliament
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    Dair said:

    a single party state in effect,

    I shudder at the prospect
    Yeah it's much better to have Imposed government by 35% of the electorate due to electoral quirks than have a party voted for by 50% of the population.
    do you think an effective single party state is a good thing for democracy?

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,546
    SeanT said:


    Are PB lefties genuinely confident or is it just bravado?

    The national picture has been clear for a long time - the Tories will lose power if they don't establish a lead of at least 5%, and they've been more or less stuck around zero for 6 months. All three polls today show Labour improving or steady - a sudden leap to Tories +5 in 11 days would be startling.

    Roger said:

    Isn't this a leading question and wouldn't you expect an organization with the integrity of Survation to ask the Mail to try again?

    "The SNP are a party committed to Scottish independence and the break-up of the UK. They cannot be trusted to act in the best interests of the UK if they were part of the UK government"

    Best push poll for a long while.
    It's awesome!

    I did finally get two people asking about the SNP at a street stand today - one wanted me to promise no coalition, the other was very keen on working with Sturgeon. Both settled amiably for "no coalition but reasonable cooperation on issues", which is what I expect to happen.

    Incidentally, there was real enthusiasm evident, as danny's friend reports - lots of Labour voters really fired up now, as well as some cheeerfully defiant Tories.
    Palmer versus Soubry.

    Jeez. Can't you both lose?

    Labour are at 32.3% in tonight's polls, on average. I wouldn't be getting out the champagne just yet, if I were them.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Logan's Run is a good blueprint for a progressive society...
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    SeanT said:


    Are PB lefties genuinely confident or is it just bravado?

    The national picture has been clear for a long time - the Tories will lose power if they don't establish a lead of at least 5%, and they've been more or less stuck around zero for 6 months. All three polls today show Labour improving or steady - a sudden leap to Tories +5 in 11 days would be startling.

    Roger said:

    Isn't this a leading question and wouldn't you expect an organization with the integrity of Survation to ask the Mail to try again?

    "The SNP are a party committed to Scottish independence and the break-up of the UK. They cannot be trusted to act in the best interests of the UK if they were part of the UK government"

    Best push poll for a long while.
    It's awesome!

    I did finally get two people asking about the SNP at a street stand today - one wanted me to promise no coalition, the other was very keen on working with Sturgeon. Both settled amiably for "no coalition but reasonable cooperation on issues", which is what I expect to happen.

    Incidentally, there was real enthusiasm evident, as danny's friend reports - lots of Labour voters really fired up now, as well as some cheeerfully defiant Tories.
    Palmer versus Soubry.

    Jeez. Can't you both lose?

    Ex communist vs ex SDP

    Everyone gets a bit more right wing as they get older... Or has the whole country moved left?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    So further to Mike's thread the other day saying those two 4% leads can't both be rogue, the answer seems to be that the Opinium one was rogue, but Survation sees the race differently.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    Ed Miliband has had entirely different things to contend with than Sturgeon and so hasn't been able to be populist on spending (even though the IFS worked out they'd continue austerity)

    No, they didn't.

    The classed "reducing the deficit" as "austerity" when there is no link whatsoever between the two. The SNP will reduce the deficit through growth and higher tax take, while increasing spending. This is not "austerity". The IFS are lying and/or the Press mis-reporting.
    If you want fantasy Dair stick to GOT. Honestly, its a lot more realistic.
    I'll keep thinking the IFS or the The Press are deliberately misreporting the SNP, you keep your nose firmly in the public purse for £50k per annum.
  • Eh_ehm_a_ehEh_ehm_a_eh Posts: 552

    Dair said:

    a single party state in effect,

    I shudder at the prospect
    Yeah it's much better to have Imposed government by 35% of the electorate due to electoral quirks than have a party voted for by 50% of the population.
    do you think an effective single party state is a good thing for democracy?

    You unionists should get your act together, useless Gareth Hunts.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    Dair said:

    Logan's Run is a good blueprint for a progressive society...
    that, and Soylent Green...
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    MTimT said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Just saw Joe Root was made MOTM. Brilliant hundred but how often does 1 player win a match in the way Jimmy did today? Involved in the first 6 wickets today.


    I know it's a batsman's game but that is ridiculous.

    It was punishment for Jimmy for running like a muppet and getting run out, and depriving Joe Root of at least a double hundred and possibly a triple hundred.
    You are a hard man TSE.
    I'm a Yorkshireman, from Sheffield.

    Joe Root is also from Sheffield.

    Jimmy Anderson is a Lancastrian.

    Just saying.
    So you're all Northerners then, each of you cut from the same cloth.
    And anyone who has watched GOT knows what happens to northerners.
    Yesterday I came up with a theory about how GoT is going to end and it's moderately depressing and no matter how much more I think about it, I can't stop myself thinking that it is the only way the story can actually end.
    Surely Denerys Tararyen is going to arrive with her dragons who will blow the white walkers etc away with fire and she ends up appointing Tyrion as her hand since he is the only one smart enough to run it. And practically everyone else you have ever read about is dead, of course.
    Game of thrones ends with L+R=J. Everyone knows this.
    I seriously hesitate to put a major spoiler on a site where many may be simply enjoying the TV series but there is a fairly obvious flaw with that being the denouement.
    I think the show is entirely caught up with the books now, everything is speculation and not spoilers now.
    Nope. They haven't.
    My mistake, I've not read them deliberately so anything I do say is purely speculative. How much more till it's always ahead? End of Season 5?
    I picked up the first book in a bookshop and sampled some of it. It was unreadable - amazing given how addicting the TV series is.
    Another Tolkein?
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    That's quite an interesting look at the mindset. Significant numbers of Scots will choose the option where Scotland is better off even if they are personally worse off.

    Wonderful reflection on the charity of Scotland.
  • marktheowlmarktheowl Posts: 169
    Dair said:

    Ed Miliband has had entirely different things to contend with than Sturgeon and so hasn't been able to be populist on spending (even though the IFS worked out they'd continue austerity)

    No, they didn't.

    The classed "reducing the deficit" as "austerity" when there is no link whatsoever between the two. The SNP will reduce the deficit through growth and higher tax take, while increasing spending. This is not "austerity". The IFS are lying and/or the Press mis-reporting.
    No, while it's true that the reporting on the deficit does often overlook the stagnation in tax revenues as a reason there's still a deficit, and it's woeful that Osborne hasn't been taken to task on this, you can't get rid of it all like that unless you're planning absolutely whopping tax rises. Growth, and in particular wage growth would help, but it's not guaranteed, as Osborne has found out, and again can only do so much. So you have to try and find some savings and cuts somewhere to help you along. I'll go with the IFS, the independent think-tank which often annoys all parties (despite them also citing them when it suits them) with its matter of fact analysis of the plausibility and consequences of their plans.

  • So more people in GB think Nicola Sturgeon is a more capable leader than Ed Miliband.

    Not necessarily. If 17% think Sturgeon is the most capable leader and 15% think Miliband the most capable leader, then anywhere between 15% and 83% may reckon Miliband to be a more capable leader than Sturgeon.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Dair said:

    a single party state in effect,

    I shudder at the prospect
    Yeah it's much better to have Imposed government by 35% of the electorate due to electoral quirks than have a party voted for by 50% of the population.
    do you think an effective single party state is a good thing for democracy?

    It's not a single party state, it's a dominant party state. And yes, a dominant party state with 50% support is better than a plural state with a majority government getting 35% of the vote.
  • It seems like every Nat on Twitter is retweeting me.

    My phone is going to melt at this rate.
  • @itvnews: Cable ready 'to stomach' another coalition with Tories http://t.co/mJFb9xpBbH http://t.co/z0kxu04pqe
  • Dair said:

    Ed Miliband has had entirely different things to contend with than Sturgeon and so hasn't been able to be populist on spending (even though the IFS worked out they'd continue austerity)

    No, they didn't.

    The classed "reducing the deficit" as "austerity" when there is no link whatsoever between the two. The SNP will reduce the deficit through growth and higher tax take, while increasing spending. This is not "austerity". The IFS are lying and/or the Press mis-reporting.
    At best the SNP aspire to reduce the deficit that way.

  • ItwasriggedItwasrigged Posts: 154
    Dair said:

    MTimT said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Just saw Joe Root was made MOTM. Brilliant hundred but how often does 1 player win a match in the way Jimmy did today? Involved in the first 6 wickets today.


    I know it's a batsman's game but that is ridiculous.

    It was punishment for Jimmy for running like a muppet and getting run out, and depriving Joe Root of at least a double hundred and possibly a triple hundred.
    You are a hard man TSE.
    I'm a Yorkshireman, from Sheffield.

    Joe Root is also from Sheffield.

    Jimmy Anderson is a Lancastrian.

    Just saying.
    So you're all Northerners then, each of you cut from the same cloth.
    And anyone who has watched GOT knows what happens to northerners.
    Yesterday I came up with a theory about how GoT is going to end and it's moderately depressing and no matter how much more I think about it, I can't stop myself thinking that it is the only way the story can actually end.
    Surely Denerys Tararyen is going to arrive with her dragons who will blow the white walkers etc away with fire and she ends up appointing Tyrion as her hand since he is the only one smart enough to run it. And practically everyone else you have ever read about is dead, of course.
    Game of thrones ends with L+R=J. Everyone knows this.
    I seriously hesitate to put a major spoiler on a site where many may be simply enjoying the TV series but there is a fairly obvious flaw with that being the denouement.
    I think the show is entirely caught up with the books now, everything is speculation and not spoilers now.
    Nope. They haven't.
    My mistake, I've not read them deliberately so anything I do say is purely speculative. How much more till it's always ahead? End of Season 5?
    I picked up the first book in a bookshop and sampled some of it. It was unreadable - amazing given how addicting the TV series is.
    Another Tolkein?
    My lady stopped watching when Sean Bean got done for. I didn't have the heart to tell her he was going to get decapped.
  • Eh_ehm_a_ehEh_ehm_a_eh Posts: 552
    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT Of course in 2011 the SNP won 53 constituency seats at Holyrood, Labour 15, the Tories 3 and LDs two, the Westminster result will likely be similar and just a catch up from the situation already present in the Scottish Parliament

    Peak SNP.

    Remember that in 2016 Scots will be voting for a Holyrood government with INCOME TAX raising powers. That will sober up the voters. No more whingeing about the English: the Scots government you elect imposes and collects the most conspicuous tax of all, then spends it.

    Unless the Scots have been converted into a mad, passionate people happy to suffer for the cause of FREEDOM, I reckon they will shake their heads at Sturgeon's lefty grandstanding.

    She'll win, but need a Coalition. Etc.
    Peak SNP has been called 3 times before, 2007, 2011, and indyref.
    They probably called it in the 70's as well, can't remember that far back.
    Oops,forgot it was called when the Holyrood parliament was opened.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,165
    You do realise this is an election for the parliament of the UK state?
  • marktheowlmarktheowl Posts: 169
    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT Of course in 2011 the SNP won 53 constituency seats at Holyrood, Labour 15, the Tories 3 and LDs two, the Westminster result will likely be similar and just a catch up from the situation already present in the Scottish Parliament

    Peak SNP.

    Remember that in 2016 Scots will be voting for a Holyrood government with INCOME TAX raising powers. That will sober up the voters. No more whingeing about the English: the Scots government you elect imposes and collects the most conspicuous tax of all, then spends it.

    Unless the Scots have been converted into a mad, passionate people happy to suffer for the cause of FREEDOM, I reckon they will shake their heads at Sturgeon's lefty grandstanding.

    She'll win, but need a Coalition. Etc.
    May well depend on the result of this election, if Ed wins, has a relatively ok year with the economy continuing to grow, announcing his most popular policies and faces down the SNP to an extent, then they'll be in a tricky position before the 2016 election - vote through Labour legislation that's been derided as 'Red Tory', or bring the whole thing down and risk putting a real Tory back in No.10. Then I can see what you envisage coming to pass, as the inherent contradiction of saying 'Labour are the same as the Tories, but we'd never work with the horrible Tories and want a Labour PM' is shown to be that.

    However if we see a Cameron government, I can see them romping home. Firstly, if Osborne's true to his word on his cuts plan, the worst ones will come next year. Secondly, as we've seen in the election campaign the Tories will be determined to pick fights with the SNP to play up to being the 'English' party and EVEL is likely to cause a stir. Lastly, if it looks remotely like we might vote for Brexit in the 2017 referendum, Sturgeon can use it to say that Scotland needs an SNP government to swiftly move towards independence should Britain leave the EU.

  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052


    Are PB lefties genuinely confident or is it just bravado?

    The national picture has been clear for a long time - the Tories will lose power if they don't establish a lead of at least 5%, and they've been more or less stuck around zero for 6 months. All three polls today show Labour improving or steady - a sudden leap to Tories +5 in 11 days would be startling.
    I'm sure you're not really this blase, Nick. You know as well as I do that the consistency of the polls doesn't mean they're right or that you can get an accurate figure by taking a simple average. My interpretation of the polls is that current state of parties is approx Con 34.5 Lab 30.5, which is probably enough to keep DC at Number 10, as well as being the worst result for the centre-left since 1992. Looking on the bright side, if Labour lose and Ed resigns, you can get a decent leader in before the autumn '15 election.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    @ Dair re another Tolkein.

    Nothing nearly so literary. Just over-detailed and written like a screenplay rather than a novel.

    That said, I am in awe of the world he has created and how coherent and internally consistent the plot is - no mean task on such a massive undertaking. I read somewhere that there are some 200+ named characters in the TV show, whereas that number exceeds 1500 in the books.
  • scotslassscotslass Posts: 912
    marktheowl

    I see the Sunday Times poll is in and fulfills the earlier expectation.

    It was Salmond not Sturgeon who seized on Cameron's arrogant post referendum speech which was ceratinly a game changer. However there is no doubt that Sturgeon is the outstanding/only inspiring leader of this campaign.
  • It doesn't specify exact dates but that panelbase was conducted over the past week.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    Interesting to see that my city council (Birmingham) is running anti-electoral-fraud adverts on PB.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    MarktheOwl/SeanT Of course the Smith proposals will be legislated for post election too. While Sturgeon would comfortably retain her majority at Holyrood on the constituency seats, the regional list could make it more difficult, especially if UKIP win a couple of seats for the first time, and they already have an MEP in Scotland
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT Of course in 2011 the SNP won 53 constituency seats at Holyrood, Labour 15, the Tories 3 and LDs two, the Westminster result will likely be similar and just a catch up from the situation already present in the Scottish Parliament

    Peak SNP.

    Remember that in 2016 Scots will be voting for a Holyrood government with INCOME TAX raising powers. That will sober up the voters. No more whingeing about the English: the Scots government you elect imposes and collects the most conspicuous tax of all, then spends it.

    Scottish Parliament has had the ability to vary income tax by 3p in either direction since '99
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,044

    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT Of course in 2011 the SNP won 53 constituency seats at Holyrood, Labour 15, the Tories 3 and LDs two, the Westminster result will likely be similar and just a catch up from the situation already present in the Scottish Parliament

    Peak SNP.

    Remember that in 2016 Scots will be voting for a Holyrood government with INCOME TAX raising powers. That will sober up the voters. No more whingeing about the English: the Scots government you elect imposes and collects the most conspicuous tax of all, then spends it.

    Scottish Parliament has had the ability to vary income tax by 3p in either direction since '99
    Only the basic rate, I assume.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    I'm enjoying the befuddlement of the past masters of synthetic outrage and grievance mongering - Labour, and in particular the SNP, at the Tories Scottish play - Janet Daley captures it perfectly:

    It is pretty rich for the SNP – who have incited the most febrile nationalism seen in British politics for generations – to claim that the Conservatives are stoking a dangerous “English nationalism”. It is perfectly reasonable, apparently, for them to want legislative and fiscal independence from us, but hysterical and fear-mongering for us to want to carry that to its obvious conclusion and establish legislative and fiscal independence from them.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11561626/A-Labour-SNP-pact-would-be-an-outrage-to-democracy.html
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    WTF...Wouldn't even need a mini-bus for the minor parties, a Ford Focus would do the job. Scots not thinking much of Milifandom.

    I think you can definitely stick your UNS calculators up your [beep] this GE.
    We all enjoy a little schadenfreude now and again but exactly why right wingers should be so gleeful at the fact that a more left-wing party than Labour is sweeping all before it in Scotland baffles me. I cannot see how that offers any comfort to Tory sympathisers at all. Looking at in in terms of the current coalition they are set to lose at least 10 seats in Scotland and it is absolutely clear that hell will freeze over before the SNP have anything to do with the Tories.
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    a single party state in effect,

    I shudder at the prospect
    Yeah it's much better to have Imposed government by 35% of the electorate due to electoral quirks than have a party voted for by 50% of the population.
    do you think an effective single party state is a good thing for democracy?

    It's not a single party state, it's a dominant party state. And yes, a dominant party state with 50% support is better than a plural state with a majority government getting 35% of the vote.
    Unfortunately the actions of SNP supporters suggests that their aim is a single party state. - But that's socialists the world over for you.
This discussion has been closed.