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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Private UKIP poll has Farage behind South Thanet

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  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,160
    edited April 2015
    Pulpstar said:

    I had a dream last night that Labour gained the Western Isles :o

    Actually I recently saw a twitter conversation stating that there was at least one SLab candidate openly boasting that he was going to take his seat from the SNP, and it was implied that it was Mr Morrison.

    On the basis of a 12% plus SNP majority, a 47% Yes vote and the SNP smashing Labour in the 2011 Holyrood elections, I can't see it myself.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Sandpit said:

    Plato said:

    Years ago I saw a replica of the Colditz escape plane at the Imperial War Museum - amazing. http://test.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraft/Colditz-Glider/IMAGES/museum-colditz-glider.jpg

    kingbongo said:

    Plato said:

    OT I feel stupid for never knowing of this chappy of Colditz fame

    ... and even a board game.

    A friend of mine owned the game when I was kid - it was actually pretty good as I remember!
    Cool glider ;) I should head to the IWM next time I'm in London.
    Funny that I learned to fly in the similar but German k8
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Schleicher_K_8b_D-5727.jpg
    Germany now make almost all of the world's best gliders, they started after WWII when they were banned by international treaty from making powered aeroplanes.
    Just out of interest I checked the Wikipedia entry for the aircraft type I learned to fly on, not only was it there, but the actual aircraft I learned on appears to have been used for the picture! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus_Quantum
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,644
    JEO said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FalseFlag said:

    taffys said:

    Japanese promote robots, we go for neo slavery.

    Japan has a phenomenon called 'herbivore men' or young males who have completely dropped out of work, study, dating and marriage.

    Its reported to be a big problem for them.

    We have far higher unemployment. The Japanese will be living in I Robot, we will be living in Elysium.
    Japan is falling to pieces under the surface. It runs one of the highest government deficits in the world, and its outstanding government debt is around 250% of GDP - so almost 3x the level of the UK or Spain.

    Ever year there are fewer Japanese people of working age, and an ever greater number of retirees and aged people. The dependency ratio worsens every year, therefore deepening the malaise. Outside metropolitan Tokyo, many villages and prefectures are literally dying.

    Robots might help Japan's manufacturing remain (vaguely) competitive, but they won't look after old people and wipe their bottoms.

    And because Japan is literally dying on its feet, many of its most talented people leave for the United States or Europe every year. Just as with that other dying behemoth, Russia, the brightest and the best head for the exits.
    Do you have numbers on the last paragraph? It seems like something that you could find anecdotal comments for on every country.
    The favourite statistic I heard on that was that the Japanese start more companies that go on to float in the US, than in Japan.

    That would seem to suggest the most entrepreneurial are the ones that are leaving. (Although I admit it might also reflect the moribund state of the Japanese stock market.)
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Japan is stagnant because it has virtually no immigration and negative net migration and has had for decades. It's labour protectionism is destroying it.

    If Kippers want to see what their idealised paradise of a post free labour movement country looks like, they just need to consider Japan.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited April 2015
    JEO said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FalseFlag said:

    taffys said:

    Japanese promote robots, we go for neo slavery.

    Japan has a phenomenon called 'herbivore men' or young males who have completely dropped out of work, study, dating and marriage.

    Its reported to be a big problem for them.

    We have far higher unemployment. The Japanese will be living in I Robot, we will be living in Elysium.
    Japan is falling to pieces under the surface. It runs one of the highest government deficits in the world, and its outstanding government debt is around 250% of GDP - so almost 3x the level of the UK or Spain.

    Ever year there are fewer Japanese people of working age, and an ever greater number of retirees and aged people. The dependency ratio worsens every year, therefore deepening the malaise. Outside metropolitan Tokyo, many villages and prefectures are literally dying.

    Robots might help Japan's manufacturing remain (vaguely) competitive, but they won't look after old people and wipe their bottoms.

    And because Japan is literally dying on its feet, many of its most talented people leave for the United States or Europe every year. Just as with that other dying behemoth, Russia, the brightest and the best head for the exits.
    Do you have numbers on the last paragraph? It seems like something that you could find anecdotal comments for on every country.
    I'd be a bit surprised by that last thing, although it may be true at the very top - for example, numbers studying abroad seem to be in steady decline:
    http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/03/25/national/number-of-japanese-studying-abroad-down-seventh-straight-year/#.VSE2611UtTd

    Also I think rcs1000 is too pessimistic about the future of Japanese arse-wiping technology. (Declaration of interest: I own shares in Toto.)
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited April 2015
    Dair said:

    Japan is stagnant because it has virtually no immigration and negative net migration and has had for decades. It's labour protectionism is destroying it.

    If Kippers want to see what their idealised paradise of a post free labour movement country looks like, they just need to consider Japan.

    Are you still continuing with this horsesh*t ? How do you get from "controlled immigration" to "no immigration" ? I suppose you think we had no immigration prior to 1973 ? The "Windrush Generation" never happened ?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223

    isam said:

    Last night Matthew Goodwin tweeted three reasons why this South Thanet poll is flawed.. he seems to have deleted the tweets though

    !) UKIP were 5pts ahead in the 1st question
    2) People were asked to "think about current MP" in the 2nd question.. Current MP is standing down
    3) The final question was framed "if it were a legal obligation to vote...."

    ComRes have been polling in this way for nearly ten years and have been asking questions in the form they have. I agree the VI question could have been better. The wording

    Please now think specifically about your own constituency of South Thanet, the issues it faces, the local MP and the different candidates. Who do you think you will vote for in the General Election on May 7th?

    On a general point I'm finding the incessant complaints from UKIP about anything and everything really rather tiresome. All they do is moan. Grow up.
    I think that's unfair Mike. The piece in the Mail on Sunday was flawed in a couple of ways as it was comparing polls from two different pollsters. They also compared current GE VI polls with the result of the 2014 Euro Elections which have a different electoral system (and don't matter!).

    Polls can, in theory, drive voter behaviour. But, if anything, the ComRes poll does Ukip a bit of a favour. It tells us that Ukip have a chance of winning, which we already knew. But it also tells us that Labour have a realistic chance of winning. It would have been far more damaging for Ukip if the poll had shown the Tories and Ukip well ahead of Labour and perhaps prompted some Labour voters to switch to the Tories to keep stop Ukip from winning.

    Ultimately it's up to us as individuals to analyse the state of play and bet accordingly. If you think Ukip aren't going to do that well (what ever well may be), then it's your prerogative to bet as you see fit. But if others want to question your analysis - or anyone else's analysis - then that's their right too.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    notme said:

    Dair said:

    The problem is that your belief is based on a false premise.

    Wages are not diminished because of migrants. Wages are diminished because there is no effective measure in place to protect wages against the inevitable Marxian erosion which is an unavoidable consequence of all capitalist economies in the long term.

    Smart countries protect through legislation (some better than others because this will not be without consequences), The wealthy will create spurious arguments based on kernels of truth to avoid this. Because inherited wealth is not affected by the diminution of wages (in fact it is enhanced).

    There is a long and complex argument as to why simply reducing the Supply of Labour in a country does not increase wages (too long to go into here). The wage diminution is inevitable and has nothing to do with migrants.

    Yet the average joe in every capitalist country keeps getting richer and richer, and richer and richer, and richer and richer.

    Theres a great little website for people who believe in such inevitable rubbish, its called housepricecrash.co.uk They have lots of pretty graphs and things,
    Only debt and asset price inflation allowed wealth to continue growing into the the 90s. When that failed only massive money printing has continued the illusion of growth.

    Today we are faced with each generation being poorer than their parents. It's already happened.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,644
    Dair said:

    Japan is stagnant because it has virtually no immigration and negative net migration and has had for decades. It's labour protectionism is destroying it.

    If Kippers want to see what their idealised paradise of a post free labour movement country looks like, they just need to consider Japan.

    That's a little simplistic. Japan also has a very low birthrate.
  • kingbongokingbongo Posts: 393
    Sandpit said:

    Plato said:

    Years ago I saw a replica of the Colditz escape plane at the Imperial War Museum - amazing. http://test.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraft/Colditz-Glider/IMAGES/museum-colditz-glider.jpg

    kingbongo said:

    Plato said:

    OT I feel stupid for never knowing of this chappy of Colditz fame

    ... and even a board game.

    A friend of mine owned the game when I was kid - it was actually pretty good as I remember!
    Cool glider ;) I should head to the IWM next time I'm in London.
    Funny that I learned to fly in the similar but German k8
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Schleicher_K_8b_D-5727.jpg
    Germany now make almost all of the world's best gliders, they started after WWII when they were banned by international treaty from making powered aeroplanes.
    The Germans have been making the best gliders since the days of Otto Lilienthal - always been popular there
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Dair said:

    notme said:

    Dair said:

    The problem is that your belief is based on a false premise.

    Wages are not diminished because of migrants. Wages are diminished because there is no effective measure in place to protect wages against the inevitable Marxian erosion which is an unavoidable consequence of all capitalist economies in the long term.

    Smart countries protect through legislation (some better than others because this will not be without consequences), The wealthy will create spurious arguments based on kernels of truth to avoid this. Because inherited wealth is not affected by the diminution of wages (in fact it is enhanced).

    There is a long and complex argument as to why simply reducing the Supply of Labour in a country does not increase wages (too long to go into here). The wage diminution is inevitable and has nothing to do with migrants.

    Yet the average joe in every capitalist country keeps getting richer and richer, and richer and richer, and richer and richer.

    Theres a great little website for people who believe in such inevitable rubbish, its called housepricecrash.co.uk They have lots of pretty graphs and things,
    Only debt and asset price inflation allowed wealth to continue growing into the the 90s. When that failed only massive money printing has continued the illusion of growth.

    Today we are faced with each generation being poorer than their parents. It's already happened.
    That is such claptrap. Its not happening whatsoever and so long as scientific and technological progress continues to be made its not going to happen either.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited April 2015
    I learned to fly in one of these - a Piper Cherokee, been in production for donkeys!

    EDIT To buy one like the one I used - only £58k - bargain :smile:
    Indigo said:

    Sandpit said:

    Plato said:

    Years ago I saw a replica of the Colditz escape plane at the Imperial War Museum - amazing. http://test.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraft/Colditz-Glider/IMAGES/museum-colditz-glider.jpg

    kingbongo said:

    Plato said:

    OT I feel stupid for never knowing of this chappy of Colditz fame

    ... and even a board game.

    A friend of mine owned the game when I was kid - it was actually pretty good as I remember!
    Cool glider ;) I should head to the IWM next time I'm in London.
    Funny that I learned to fly in the similar but German k8
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Schleicher_K_8b_D-5727.jpg
    Germany now make almost all of the world's best gliders, they started after WWII when they were banned by international treaty from making powered aeroplanes.
    Just out of interest I checked the Wikipedia entry for the aircraft type I learned to fly on, not only was it there, but the actual aircraft I learned on appears to have been used for the picture! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus_Quantum
  • Dair said:

    The problem is that your belief is based on a false premise.

    Wages are not diminished because of migrants. Wages are diminished because there is no effective measure in place to protect wages against the inevitable Marxian erosion which is an unavoidable consequence of all capitalist economies in the long term.

    Marx himself knew that his theory about the impoverishment of the worker in bourgeois society was pure millenarianism.
    It is clear, however, that Marx was determined to find in capitalism a relentless tendency to degrade the worker, and that he resisted facts which indicated that the worker was getting better off. Betram Wolfe has pointed out that in the first edition of Capital various statistics are brought down to 1865 or 1866, but those for the movement of wages stop at 1850; in the second edition (1873) the statistics are again brought up to date, again with the exception of wages, which had failed to bear out the impoverishment theory. This is a rare but important case of disingenuousness in Marx's treatment of factual date [Kolakowski, Main Currents of Marxism (1. vol edit, London, 2005), p. 238]
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Indigo said:

    Dair said:

    Japan is stagnant because it has virtually no immigration and negative net migration and has had for decades. It's labour protectionism is destroying it.

    If Kippers want to see what their idealised paradise of a post free labour movement country looks like, they just need to consider Japan.

    Are you still continuing with this horsesh*t ? How do you get from "controlled immigration" to "no immigration" ? I suppose you think we had no immigration prior to 1973 ? The "Windrush Generation" never happened ?
    Again Kippers like to look at half the picture. You don't consider just how many were coming to the UK in the 50s and 60s JUST to make up for all the £10 Poms in an age where far more working age Britons were leaving the country than today.

    The Kipper ideas will deliver NONE of their claims. Wages won't increase, productivity won't rise and as the country plummets into economic turmoil, as ALWAYS happens with Blame Parties, instead of admitting their error, they will just say "we need to do more" so reduce it to zero. Then start kicking people out.
  • New Thread
  • kingbongokingbongo Posts: 393
    of no interest to anyone but I am amused to be informed I have been a member 'since January' considering I first posted here back in the heady days of 2005 or so - in my DPhil inspired absence it appears SeanF has become a Kipper but apart from that all seems as normal but less LD posting and more enraged nationalists shows the site is reflecting the state of UK politics just now
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,027
    edited April 2015
    Plato said:

    How fascinating, I'd no idea about that.

    Sandpit said:

    Plato said:

    Years ago I saw a replica of the Colditz escape plane at the Imperial War Museum - amazing. http://test.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraft/Colditz-Glider/IMAGES/museum-colditz-glider.jpg

    Cool glider ;) I should head to the IWM next time I'm in London.
    Funny that I learned to fly in the similar but German k8
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Schleicher_K_8b_D-5727.jpg
    Germany now make almost all of the world's best gliders, they started after WWII when they were banned by international treaty from making powered aeroplanes.

    Plato said:

    How fascinating, I'd no idea about that.

    Sandpit said:

    Plato said:

    Years ago I saw a replica of the Colditz escape plane at the Imperial War Museum - amazing. http://test.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraft/Colditz-Glider/IMAGES/museum-colditz-glider.jpg

    A friend of mine owned the game when I was kid - it was actually pretty good as I remember!


    Cool glider ;) I should head to the IWM next time I'm in London.
    Funny that I learned to fly in the similar but German k8
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Schleicher_K_8b_D-5727.jpg
    Germany now make almost all of the world's best gliders, they started after WWII when they were banned by international treaty from making powered aeroplanes.
    The Allies didn't want Germany making military aircraft (or anything that might be construed as such!) for a few years after the War. Not really sure why...?

    The same company now make the gliders from carbon fibre like F1 cars http://www.alexander-schleicher.de/main_text_e.htm
    Modern gliders fly at 50:1 - so if you get 1000m up you can fly 50km, with no engine! It's great fun if you get the chance to do it - loads of clubs offer trial lessons for GBP60-80...
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Dair said:

    notme said:

    Dair said:

    The problem is that your belief is based on a false premise.

    Wages are not diminished because of migrants. Wages are diminished because there is no effective measure in place to protect wages against the inevitable Marxian erosion which is an unavoidable consequence of all capitalist economies in the long term.

    Smart countries protect through legislation (some better than others because this will not be without consequences), The wealthy will create spurious arguments based on kernels of truth to avoid this. Because inherited wealth is not affected by the diminution of wages (in fact it is enhanced).

    There is a long and complex argument as to why simply reducing the Supply of Labour in a country does not increase wages (too long to go into here). The wage diminution is inevitable and has nothing to do with migrants.

    Yet the average joe in every capitalist country keeps getting richer and richer, and richer and richer, and richer and richer.

    Theres a great little website for people who believe in such inevitable rubbish, its called housepricecrash.co.uk They have lots of pretty graphs and things,
    Only debt and asset price inflation allowed wealth to continue growing into the the 90s. When that failed only massive money printing has continued the illusion of growth.

    Today we are faced with each generation being poorer than their parents. It's already happened.
    No. Today we are faced with the possibility that the extraordinary increase in prosperity, that has meant every generation since the industrial revolution is substantially richer than the one that preceded it.

    There is a possibility, not one that i agree with, that, without a crystal ball, we have reached 'peak prosperity'. In which poorest live better than they ever have.


  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,027
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Plato said:

    Years ago I saw a replica of the Colditz escape plane at the Imperial War Museum - amazing. http://test.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraft/Colditz-Glider/IMAGES/museum-colditz-glider.jpg

    kingbongo said:

    Plato said:

    OT I feel stupid for never knowing of this chappy of Colditz fame

    ... and even a board game.

    A friend of mine owned the game when I was kid - it was actually pretty good as I remember!
    Cool glider ;) I should head to the IWM next time I'm in London.
    Funny that I learned to fly in the similar but German k8
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Schleicher_K_8b_D-5727.jpg
    Germany now make almost all of the world's best gliders, they started after WWII when they were banned by international treaty from making powered aeroplanes.
    They were big on gliders between the wars too, no?
    I hadn't thought of that, but Wiki seems to agree with you. The Germans tried to get it into the Olympics.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gliding#History

    BTW did you see the request earlier for the return of the Donate button?
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