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  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,266

    Afternoon all and I see Malcolm is being his usual charming, inoffensive self.

    Turnip surge I say
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,266
    chestnut said:

    Scott_P said:

    @BBCNormanS: Scottish Labour leader @jimmurphymp says Scots will punish @thesnp if they brought down a Labour Govt

    If I were a SNP voter, that would double my resolve to vote for them.

    Contemptible comment by Murphy.
    Murphy is an Ed clone , useless
  • Options
    timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    Pulpstar said:

    timmo said:

    The remaining rump of the LibDems are putting in a concerted effort though..
    Here in Sutton where they have Brake and Burstow as MPs they have through the LD phonebank machine rung the whole constituency twice already.
    Sutton and Cheam which is a target 40/40 seat is getting visits from cabinet ministers galore by the Tories and there is a real Stalingrad feel to the fight on the street. In C&W its much more low key with most pundits expecting a comfortable win for Brake.

    Sutton and Cheam and Carshalton and Wellington will be held even if the Lib Dems go sub 15 seats or so. Probably sub 10
    Agree about C&W but Burstows position is more precarious..
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Lib Dems on 8% with ICM is like being on 5 or 6% with other opinion pollsters.

    Weighting to 2010 vote is like weighting Harry Kane's goals to his 2013/14 ratio
    MikeK said:

    FPT:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    What are the chances of all 4 polls coming out today showing a tory lead

    If I was a layer - I be offering 3/1
    To be a player - I would want 5/1

    Zero?
    Wasn't Populus a draw?
    Yes down to the last 0.00%.

    33.52% each.
    YouGov/Sunday Times spoilt a potential Lab/Con ELBOW lead of 0.00% yesterday! (ended up 0.01% Tory lead!)
    So there was in fact crossover last week :) ?
    1 extra Tory respondent in YouGov was all it took!

    Final weekly ELBOW tallies:

    4,348 Con =33.17%
    4,347 Lab =33.16%
    1,944 UKIP = 14.83%
    969 LD = 7.39%
    744 Green = 5.68%
    Total weighted sample from 11 polls =13,108
    It's all Crystal Ball gazing.
    In fact my crystal ball - I actually have a genuine one at home - shows much clearer mud, than all the pollsters do. ;)
    Damn biased pollsters !
    I wouldn't say any pollster is biased, and as that is a banning offence on here I'd like you to retract that insinuation if you would?

    But weighting UKIP and the Lib Dems to their 2010 result is nonsense in my opinion
    If that 9 had been a 15 we wouldn't be having this conversation. ICM did well last time.
    What a ridiculous thing to say! The reason it isn't nearer to 15 is because they weight to 2010 vote, which seems a bit stale to me.

    But you have a meme to push, for your own sanity no doubt, press on

    Oooh handbag.
    Not at all..

    No retraction of accusing me of saying the pollster was biased?

    Want to make a bet on UKIP under/over 9%?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,054
    Carshalton and Wellington safer than Eastleigh, Orkney and Shetland according to May2015 and election forecast.
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,024
    Pulpstar said:

    timmo said:

    The remaining rump of the LibDems are putting in a concerted effort though..
    Here in Sutton where they have Brake and Burstow as MPs they have through the LD phonebank machine rung the whole constituency twice already.
    Sutton and Cheam which is a target 40/40 seat is getting visits from cabinet ministers galore by the Tories and there is a real Stalingrad feel to the fight on the street. In C&W its much more low key with most pundits expecting a comfortable win for Brake.

    Sutton and Cheam and Carshalton and Wellington will be held even if the Lib Dems go sub 15 seats or so. Probably sub 10
    The really interesting one is Bermondsey. My instinct is that a continued strong personal vote will see Hughes over the line, but it's touch and go - Labour seem to be doing really well in the inner-London suburbs.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013
    DavidL said:

    Very mixed ICM for the Tories. On the one hand to hold 36% is very impressive suggesting that their share of the vote might even go up in May. On the other Labour are right on their tails and going to gain a shedload of seats to offset the disaster in Scotland.

    This is heading for a serious guddle, probably with Labour as the largest party but it is going to be too close to form a credible government with.

    It looks like a big switch from Green to Labour. Although I think that 4% and 9% are the irreducible minimum for the Greens and UKIP respectively, and the two big parties will have to take votes off each other to achieve a decisive lead with ICM.
  • Options
    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    edited March 2015
    Artist said:

    People still quite like the Lib Dems then?

    Of course, Mr Artist. With the Lib Dem machine starting to get into gear, peope are remembering that the Lib Dems have been in government for the last five years. And behaving responsibly.

    And they are being reminded that a lot of the things that they like about this Government came about because of the Lib Dems.

    They are also being reminded that a Conservative Government by itself would have been a very different kettle of fish. And the good thing is that that is what the Tories are campaigning on. Keep going, you Tories.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Lib Dems on 8% with ICM is like being on 5 or 6% with other opinion pollsters.

    Weighting to 2010 vote is like weighting Harry Kane's goals to his 2013/14 ratio
    MikeK said:

    FPT:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    What are the chances of all 4 polls coming out today showing a tory lead

    If I was a layer - I be offering 3/1
    To be a player - I would want 5/1

    Zero?
    Wasn't Populus a draw?
    Yes down to the last 0.00%.

    33.52% each.
    YouGov/Sunday Times spoilt a potential Lab/Con ELBOW lead of 0.00% yesterday! (ended up 0.01% Tory lead!)
    So there was in fact crossover last week :) ?
    1 extra Tory respondent in YouGov was all it took!

    Final weekly ELBOW tallies:

    4,348 Con =33.17%
    4,347 Lab =33.16%
    1,944 UKIP = 14.83%
    969 LD = 7.39%
    744 Green = 5.68%
    Total weighted sample from 11 polls =13,108
    It's all Crystal Ball gazing.
    In fact my crystal ball - I actually have a genuine one at home - shows much clearer mud, than all the pollsters do. ;)
    Damn biased pollsters !
    I wouldn't say any pollster is biased, and as that is a banning offence on here I'd like you to retract that insinuation if you would?

    But weighting UKIP and the Lib Dems to their 2010 result is nonsense in my opinion
    If that 9 had been a 15 we wouldn't be having this conversation. ICM did well last time.
    What a ridiculous thing to say! The reason it isn't nearer to 15 is because they weight to 2010 vote, which seems a bit stale to me.

    But you have a meme to push, for your own sanity no doubt, press on

    Oooh handbag.
    Not at all..

    No retraction of accusing me of saying the pollster was biased?

    Want to make a bet on UKIP under/over 9%?
    You didn't say biased - apologies. But a robust examination of the methodology coincided with another poor poll score for your party.

  • Options
    DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215
    Looks like we are past peak Green.
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,024
    malcolmg said:

    chestnut said:

    Scott_P said:

    @BBCNormanS: Scottish Labour leader @jimmurphymp says Scots will punish @thesnp if they brought down a Labour Govt

    If I were a SNP voter, that would double my resolve to vote for them.

    Contemptible comment by Murphy.
    Murphy is an Ed clone , useless
    I think that is unfair. He's got much better presentational skills, but he just seems to be rather too New Labour for Scottish tastes.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,194
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Odds on SNP to get more votes than the Lib Dems ?

    The more interesting comparison is Greens vs. SNP. Could be about equal on votes, while the SNP get 50 times as many seats. Ah, the delights of FPTP...
    Greens and SNP to run close, but I think the Greens will get more votes.
    Different Green party in Scotland anyway.

  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited March 2015
    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Lib Dems on 8% with ICM is like being on 5 or 6% with other opinion pollsters.

    Weighting to 2010 vote is like weighting Harry Kane's goals to his 2013/14 ratio
    MikeK said:

    FPT:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    What are the chances of all 4 polls coming out today showing a tory lead

    If I was a layer - I be offering 3/1
    To be a player - I would want 5/1

    Zero?
    Wasn't Populus a draw?
    Yes down to the last 0.00%.

    33.52% each.
    YouGov/Sunday Times spoilt a potential Lab/Con ELBOW lead of 0.00% yesterday! (ended up 0.01% Tory lead!)
    So there was in fact crossover last week :) ?
    1 extra Tory respondent in YouGov was all it took!

    Final weekly ELBOW tallies:

    4,348 Con =33.17%
    4,347 Lab =33.16%
    1,944 UKIP = 14.83%
    969 LD = 7.39%
    744 Green = 5.68%
    Total weighted sample from 11 polls =13,108
    It's all Crystal Ball gazing.
    In fact my crystal ball - I actually have a genuine one at home - shows much clearer mud, than all the pollsters do. ;)
    Damn biased pollsters !
    I wouldn't say any pollster is biased, and as that is a banning offence on here I'd like you to retract that insinuation if you would?

    But weighting UKIP and the Lib Dems to their 2010 result is nonsense in my opinion
    If that 9 had been a 15 we wouldn't be having this conversation. ICM did well last time.
    What a ridiculous thing to say! The reason it isn't nearer to 15 is because they weight to 2010 vote, which seems a bit stale to me.

    But you have a meme to push, for your own sanity no doubt, press on

    Oooh handbag.
    Not at all..

    No retraction of accusing me of saying the pollster was biased?

    Want to make a bet on UKIP under/over 9%?
    You didn't say biased - apologies. But a robust examination of the methodology coincided with another poor poll score for your party.

    Do you think weighting to when UKIP got 3% is a wise move in assessing where they are now? Or things much the same as 2010?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,054

    malcolmg said:

    chestnut said:

    Scott_P said:

    @BBCNormanS: Scottish Labour leader @jimmurphymp says Scots will punish @thesnp if they brought down a Labour Govt

    If I were a SNP voter, that would double my resolve to vote for them.

    Contemptible comment by Murphy.
    Murphy is an Ed clone , useless
    I think that is unfair. He's got much better presentational skills, but he just seems to be rather too New Labour for Scottish tastes.
    New Labour
    Glue danger
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,266

    malcolmg said:

    chestnut said:

    Scott_P said:

    @BBCNormanS: Scottish Labour leader @jimmurphymp says Scots will punish @thesnp if they brought down a Labour Govt

    If I were a SNP voter, that would double my resolve to vote for them.

    Contemptible comment by Murphy.
    Murphy is an Ed clone , useless
    I think that is unfair. He's got much better presentational skills, but he just seems to be rather too New Labour for Scottish tastes.
    But still useless, just a bit less with shouty words, and would sell his granny like Ed
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,024
    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    chestnut said:

    Scott_P said:

    @BBCNormanS: Scottish Labour leader @jimmurphymp says Scots will punish @thesnp if they brought down a Labour Govt

    If I were a SNP voter, that would double my resolve to vote for them.

    Contemptible comment by Murphy.
    Murphy is an Ed clone , useless
    I think that is unfair. He's got much better presentational skills, but he just seems to be rather too New Labour for Scottish tastes.
    New Labour
    Glue danger
    Very good!
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,054
    edited March 2015
    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Odds on SNP to get more votes than the Lib Dems ?

    The more interesting comparison is Greens vs. SNP. Could be about equal on votes, while the SNP get 50 times as many seats. Ah, the delights of FPTP...
    Greens and SNP to run close, but I think the Greens will get more votes.
    Different Green party in Scotland anyway.

    I want to see th tables of this Ashcroft poll and the obviously enourmous SNP subsample.
  • Options
    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    edited March 2015
    I like to think of polling error as being of three main categories:

    1. Sampling error: derived from the random selection of a limited sample of individuals from a larger group ("margin of error"); or the non-random selection of those individuals, e.g. those with landlines or disproportionately politically interested.

    2. Introduced error: quotas designed to reduce type 1 errors are miscalculated, or their effect is to boost the error within a particular subset on which reliance is placed; calculation errors, rounding effects; changes of methodology.

    3. Pollster's call: the poll is correct, but asks the wrong question, or is presented wrongly (constituency questions, for example); responses are inaccurate (the "shy Tory") or do not reflect ballots in boxes (turnout weighting, past voting).
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013

    Pulpstar said:

    timmo said:

    The remaining rump of the LibDems are putting in a concerted effort though..
    Here in Sutton where they have Brake and Burstow as MPs they have through the LD phonebank machine rung the whole constituency twice already.
    Sutton and Cheam which is a target 40/40 seat is getting visits from cabinet ministers galore by the Tories and there is a real Stalingrad feel to the fight on the street. In C&W its much more low key with most pundits expecting a comfortable win for Brake.

    Sutton and Cheam and Carshalton and Wellington will be held even if the Lib Dems go sub 15 seats or so. Probably sub 10
    The really interesting one is Bermondsey. My instinct is that a continued strong personal vote will see Hughes over the line, but it's touch and go - Labour seem to be doing really well in the inner-London suburbs.
    Sutton, Carshalton, Twickenham, and Bermondsey will all be Lib Dem holds in London, IMHO.

    The only one that seems like a certain loss is Brent Central. I think Hornsey is a probable loss, Kingston a probable hold.
  • Options
    peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,875
    edited March 2015
    Sporting have put up a number of interesting spread bets relating to George Osborne's Budget speech:

    http://www.sportingindex.com/spread-betting/politics/british/mm4.uk.meeting.5077288/the-2015-budget

    One which caught my eye was the number of mentions of the word "billion" where the spread is 28 to sell - 30 to buy. Since the speech is reckoned to last around 55 - 60 minutes, that would work out at around two "mentions" per minute ..... not too demanding I would have thought and I'd be a modest buyer at this level.

    DYOR.

    Btw, those unable to back my suggestion of George wearing a blue tie at odds of 2/1, might instead be tempted by Hills' odds of 50/1 against him wearing either a red or yellow tie. But then again, perhaps not!
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,022
    Pulpstar said:

    timmo said:

    The remaining rump of the LibDems are putting in a concerted effort though..
    Here in Sutton where they have Brake and Burstow as MPs they have through the LD phonebank machine rung the whole constituency twice already.
    Sutton and Cheam which is a target 40/40 seat is getting visits from cabinet ministers galore by the Tories and there is a real Stalingrad feel to the fight on the street. In C&W its much more low key with most pundits expecting a comfortable win for Brake.

    Sutton and Cheam and Carshalton and Wellington will be held even if the Lib Dems go sub 15 seats or so. Probably sub 10
    I make it a Tory majority of 2,000 in Sutton and Cheam and a LibDem majority of !,000 in C&W.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,054
    @Sean_F I have no idea how Ed Davey has such an apparently large personal vote.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,938
    Todays Populus EICIPM
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,938
    Todays ICM EICIPM
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,036
    Someone has just rebooted bigjohn!
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,938
    Todays LARGER 24 mins
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,022

    Pulpstar said:

    timmo said:

    The remaining rump of the LibDems are putting in a concerted effort though..
    Here in Sutton where they have Brake and Burstow as MPs they have through the LD phonebank machine rung the whole constituency twice already.
    Sutton and Cheam which is a target 40/40 seat is getting visits from cabinet ministers galore by the Tories and there is a real Stalingrad feel to the fight on the street. In C&W its much more low key with most pundits expecting a comfortable win for Brake.

    Sutton and Cheam and Carshalton and Wellington will be held even if the Lib Dems go sub 15 seats or so. Probably sub 10
    The really interesting one is Bermondsey. My instinct is that a continued strong personal vote will see Hughes over the line, but it's touch and go - Labour seem to be doing really well in the inner-London suburbs.
    I make Bermondsey a 4,000 majority for the LibDems.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    timmo said:

    The remaining rump of the LibDems are putting in a concerted effort though..
    Here in Sutton where they have Brake and Burstow as MPs they have through the LD phonebank machine rung the whole constituency twice already.
    Sutton and Cheam which is a target 40/40 seat is getting visits from cabinet ministers galore by the Tories and there is a real Stalingrad feel to the fight on the street. In C&W its much more low key with most pundits expecting a comfortable win for Brake.

    Sutton and Cheam and Carshalton and Wellington will be held even if the Lib Dems go sub 15 seats or so. Probably sub 10
    The really interesting one is Bermondsey. My instinct is that a continued strong personal vote will see Hughes over the line, but it's touch and go - Labour seem to be doing really well in the inner-London suburbs.
    Sutton, Carshalton, Twickenham, and Bermondsey will all be Lib Dem holds in London, IMHO.

    The only one that seems like a certain loss is Brent Central. I think Hornsey is a probable loss, Kingston a probable hold.
    I think Kingston will be a LibDem HOLD. The most fascinating seat is Hornsey that should be a comfortable Lab GAIN but from what I'm hearing is going to be a dog fight to the finish - TCTC.

  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,024
    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    timmo said:

    The remaining rump of the LibDems are putting in a concerted effort though..
    Here in Sutton where they have Brake and Burstow as MPs they have through the LD phonebank machine rung the whole constituency twice already.
    Sutton and Cheam which is a target 40/40 seat is getting visits from cabinet ministers galore by the Tories and there is a real Stalingrad feel to the fight on the street. In C&W its much more low key with most pundits expecting a comfortable win for Brake.

    Sutton and Cheam and Carshalton and Wellington will be held even if the Lib Dems go sub 15 seats or so. Probably sub 10
    The really interesting one is Bermondsey. My instinct is that a continued strong personal vote will see Hughes over the line, but it's touch and go - Labour seem to be doing really well in the inner-London suburbs.
    Sutton, Carshalton, Twickenham, and Bermondsey will all be Lib Dem holds in London, IMHO.

    The only one that seems like a certain loss is Brent Central. I think Hornsey is a probable loss, Kingston a probable hold.
    Yes, even if they win very few or none of their other targets Brent Central is a cast-iron gain for Labour.
  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    The most fascinating seat is Hornsey that should be a comfortable Lab GAIN but from what I'm hearing is going to be a dog fight to the finish - TCTC.

    Labour's actual vote to be a pale shadow of their poll score??

    You don;t say....
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,591
    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Very mixed ICM for the Tories. On the one hand to hold 36% is very impressive suggesting that their share of the vote might even go up in May. On the other Labour are right on their tails and going to gain a shedload of seats to offset the disaster in Scotland.

    This is heading for a serious guddle, probably with Labour as the largest party but it is going to be too close to form a credible government with.

    It looks like a big switch from Green to Labour. Although I think that 4% and 9% are the irreducible minimum for the Greens and UKIP respectively, and the two big parties will have to take votes off each other to achieve a decisive lead with ICM.
    Just as well Dave got the Greens into the debates eh? Pity that might actually hurt them rather than help.

    At the moment I still expect the tories to lose 50 seats to Labour and maybe 2 to UKIP. They will probably gain 12-15 from the Lib Dems on these scores which will put them in the mid 260s.

    Labour will gain 50 from the tories and maybe a dozen from the Lib Dems but will lose 30+ to the SNP putting them in the low 280s.

    The Lib dems look to me like they will lose over 30 seats now, at least 8 to the SNP, putting them down in the mid 20s. The idea that they are a good bet to gain Watford or anywhere else seems frankly absurd to me.

    These figures for me are edging Labour's way as we get closer and swingback still looks more noticeable for its absence. I am pretty sure my estimate in the competition was more favourable to the Tories than this but we are where we are as that lying scumbag used to say.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    Sporting have put up a number of interesting spread bets relating to George Osborne's Budget speech:

    http://www.sportingindex.com/spread-betting/politics/british/mm4.uk.meeting.5077288/the-2015-budget

    One which caught my eye was the number of mentions of the word "billion" where the spread is 28 to sell - 30 to buy. Since the speech is reckoned to last around 55 - 60 minutes, that would work out at around two "mentions" per minute ..... not too demanding I would have thought and I'd be a modest buyer at this level.

    2012: 31
    2013: 23
    2014: 25

    The price looks about right, maybe a smidgen on the high side if anything.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013

    Todays ICM EICIPM

    I'm not so sure about that. Baxter gives 298 Con to 315 Lab, but you'd need to knock about 30 off the Lab score for Scotland, whereas only 2 get knocked off the Con score.
  • Options
    LennonLennon Posts: 1,741
    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    timmo said:

    The remaining rump of the LibDems are putting in a concerted effort though..
    Here in Sutton where they have Brake and Burstow as MPs they have through the LD phonebank machine rung the whole constituency twice already.
    Sutton and Cheam which is a target 40/40 seat is getting visits from cabinet ministers galore by the Tories and there is a real Stalingrad feel to the fight on the street. In C&W its much more low key with most pundits expecting a comfortable win for Brake.

    Sutton and Cheam and Carshalton and Wellington will be held even if the Lib Dems go sub 15 seats or so. Probably sub 10
    The really interesting one is Bermondsey. My instinct is that a continued strong personal vote will see Hughes over the line, but it's touch and go - Labour seem to be doing really well in the inner-London suburbs.
    Sutton, Carshalton, Twickenham, and Bermondsey will all be Lib Dem holds in London, IMHO.

    The only one that seems like a certain loss is Brent Central. I think Hornsey is a probable loss, Kingston a probable hold.
    Do you see the LD's losing deposits in most of the other London seats, or getting a vote share higher than current polling suggests? Otherwise I am not sure how the maths works in terms of where they get votes from. In (for example) Lewisham Deptford where they came 2nd and got 23% of the vote in 2010 (same as nationwide) do you see them at 2%, 4% or the 8% that a national equivalent would suggest?
  • Options
    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323

    Sporting have put up a number of interesting spread bets relating to George Osborne's Budget speech:

    http://www.sportingindex.com/spread-betting/politics/british/mm4.uk.meeting.5077288/the-2015-budget

    One which caught my eye was the number of mentions of the word "billion" where the spread is 28 to sell - 30 to buy. Since the speech is reckoned to last around 55 - 60 minutes, that would work out at around two "mentions" per minute ..... not too demanding I would have thought and I'd be a modest buyer at this level.

    2012: 31
    2013: 23
    2014: 25

    The price looks about right, maybe a smidgen on the high side if anything.
    That was quick Richard!
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,938
    RobD said:

    Someone has just rebooted bigjohn!

    Indeed. Have done 4hrs paid work today in order to help out The Watcher and N4E!

    Encouraging polls for Lab on the 35% strategy front.

    In my view if (a big if ) LAB poll 35% EICIPM and all is well in the BJO household.

    Coin toss GE2015 IMO
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013
    Lennon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    timmo said:

    The remaining rump of the LibDems are putting in a concerted effort though..
    Here in Sutton where they have Brake and Burstow as MPs they have through the LD phonebank machine rung the whole constituency twice already.
    Sutton and Cheam which is a target 40/40 seat is getting visits from cabinet ministers galore by the Tories and there is a real Stalingrad feel to the fight on the street. In C&W its much more low key with most pundits expecting a comfortable win for Brake.

    Sutton and Cheam and Carshalton and Wellington will be held even if the Lib Dems go sub 15 seats or so. Probably sub 10
    The really interesting one is Bermondsey. My instinct is that a continued strong personal vote will see Hughes over the line, but it's touch and go - Labour seem to be doing really well in the inner-London suburbs.
    Sutton, Carshalton, Twickenham, and Bermondsey will all be Lib Dem holds in London, IMHO.

    The only one that seems like a certain loss is Brent Central. I think Hornsey is a probable loss, Kingston a probable hold.
    Do you see the LD's losing deposits in most of the other London seats, or getting a vote share higher than current polling suggests? Otherwise I am not sure how the maths works in terms of where they get votes from. In (for example) Lewisham Deptford where they came 2nd and got 23% of the vote in 2010 (same as nationwide) do you see them at 2%, 4% or the 8% that a national equivalent would suggest?
    In the local elections, we saw the Lib Dems more or less disappear from London, outside the three SW London boroughs, and Southwark. So, that's probably what will happen.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Very mixed ICM for the Tories. On the one hand to hold 36% is very impressive suggesting that their share of the vote might even go up in May. On the other Labour are right on their tails and going to gain a shedload of seats to offset the disaster in Scotland.

    This is heading for a serious guddle, probably with Labour as the largest party but it is going to be too close to form a credible government with.

    It looks like a big switch from Green to Labour. Although I think that 4% and 9% are the irreducible minimum for the Greens and UKIP respectively, and the two big parties will have to take votes off each other to achieve a decisive lead with ICM.
    The Lib dems look to me like they will lose over 30 seats now, at least 8 to the SNP, putting them down in the mid 20s. The idea that they are a good bet to gain Watford or anywhere else seems frankly absurd to me.
    The reason why the LibDems are competitive in Watford is because not every seat will perform under UNS.

  • Options
    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806

    £780 million given last week to private health companies to operate in the NHS, while sevices have endured 4 years of cuts.How many more fire sales will there be before the next election?

    IIRC the budget for the NHS has increased under this government, unlike Labour's plan. There has been no firesale, no asserts are being sold. Money is being spent to eliminate the backlog of treatments.

  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,022
    edited March 2015
    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    timmo said:

    The remaining rump of the LibDems are putting in a concerted effort though..
    Here in Sutton where they have Brake and Burstow as MPs they have through the LD phonebank machine rung the whole constituency twice already.
    Sutton and Cheam which is a target 40/40 seat is getting visits from cabinet ministers galore by the Tories and there is a real Stalingrad feel to the fight on the street. In C&W its much more low key with most pundits expecting a comfortable win for Brake.

    Sutton and Cheam and Carshalton and Wellington will be held even if the Lib Dems go sub 15 seats or so. Probably sub 10
    The really interesting one is Bermondsey. My instinct is that a continued strong personal vote will see Hughes over the line, but it's touch and go - Labour seem to be doing really well in the inner-London suburbs.
    Sutton, Carshalton, Twickenham, and Bermondsey will all be Lib Dem holds in London, IMHO.

    The only one that seems like a certain loss is Brent Central. I think Hornsey is a probable loss, Kingston a probable hold.
    I make it:

    Kingston 2,000 LD majority
    Hornsey 2,000 LD majority
    Brent 1,700 Lab majority
    Twickenham 5,000 LD majority
    Sutton 2,000 Con majority
    Carshalton 1,000 LD majority
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,054

    Sporting have put up a number of interesting spread bets relating to George Osborne's Budget speech:

    http://www.sportingindex.com/spread-betting/politics/british/mm4.uk.meeting.5077288/the-2015-budget

    One which caught my eye was the number of mentions of the word "billion" where the spread is 28 to sell - 30 to buy. Since the speech is reckoned to last around 55 - 60 minutes, that would work out at around two "mentions" per minute ..... not too demanding I would have thought and I'd be a modest buyer at this level.

    DYOR.

    Btw, those unable to back my suggestion of George wearing a blue tie at odds of 2/1, might instead be tempted by Hills' odds of 50/1 against him wearing either a red or yellow tie. But then again, perhaps not!

    I'm selling tax at 108.

    2014 84 mentions
    2013 69
    2012 123
    2011 95
    2010 83

    Some of those are "taxation", so not sure how SPIN settles that, but its a sell for small (10p) stakes for me.
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,024
    T
    Barnesian said:

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    timmo said:

    The remaining rump of the LibDems are putting in a concerted effort though..
    Here in Sutton where they have Brake and Burstow as MPs they have through the LD phonebank machine rung the whole constituency twice already.
    Sutton and Cheam which is a target 40/40 seat is getting visits from cabinet ministers galore by the Tories and there is a real Stalingrad feel to the fight on the street. In C&W its much more low key with most pundits expecting a comfortable win for Brake.

    Sutton and Cheam and Carshalton and Wellington will be held even if the Lib Dems go sub 15 seats or so. Probably sub 10
    The really interesting one is Bermondsey. My instinct is that a continued strong personal vote will see Hughes over the line, but it's touch and go - Labour seem to be doing really well in the inner-London suburbs.
    Sutton, Carshalton, Twickenham, and Bermondsey will all be Lib Dem holds in London, IMHO.

    The only one that seems like a certain loss is Brent Central. I think Hornsey is a probable loss, Kingston a probable hold.
    I make it:

    Kingston 2,000 LD majority
    Hornsey 2,000 LD majority
    Brent 1,700 Lab majority
    Twickenham 5,000 LD majority
    Sutton 2,000 Con majority
    Carshalton 1,000 LD majority
    Twickenham?!!
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,024
    edited March 2015
    Ah, you just changed it.

    And that looks rather optimistic from an LD point of view overall. I'd expect the Lab majority in Brent to be much greater than that, given the total wipeout of LDs on the council and the fact that Teather has stood-down, and been replaced by the bloke caught up in the donations scandal.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,267
    O/T: an interesting article.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/03/liberal-democrats-reveal-the-great-fissure-in-liberalism/

    Such a shame that the Lib Dem candidate will most likely not succeed in Hampstead & Kilburn. I'd rather have his voice in Parliament than that lightweight, Warsi, or Galloway.
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    JackW said:

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    timmo said:

    The remaining rump of the LibDems are putting in a concerted effort though..
    Here in Sutton where they have Brake and Burstow as MPs they have through the LD phonebank machine rung the whole constituency twice already.
    Sutton and Cheam which is a target 40/40 seat is getting visits from cabinet ministers galore by the Tories and there is a real Stalingrad feel to the fight on the street. In C&W its much more low key with most pundits expecting a comfortable win for Brake.

    Sutton and Cheam and Carshalton and Wellington will be held even if the Lib Dems go sub 15 seats or so. Probably sub 10
    The really interesting one is Bermondsey. My instinct is that a continued strong personal vote will see Hughes over the line, but it's touch and go - Labour seem to be doing really well in the inner-London suburbs.
    Sutton, Carshalton, Twickenham, and Bermondsey will all be Lib Dem holds in London, IMHO.

    The only one that seems like a certain loss is Brent Central. I think Hornsey is a probable loss, Kingston a probable hold.
    I think Kingston will be a LibDem HOLD. The most fascinating seat is Hornsey that should be a comfortable Lab GAIN but from what I'm hearing is going to be a dog fight to the finish - TCTC.

    I'm told by those canvassing in Hornsey that many voters think that Lynne Featherstone IS the LAB candidate.

  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,591
    JackW said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Very mixed ICM for the Tories. On the one hand to hold 36% is very impressive suggesting that their share of the vote might even go up in May. On the other Labour are right on their tails and going to gain a shedload of seats to offset the disaster in Scotland.

    This is heading for a serious guddle, probably with Labour as the largest party but it is going to be too close to form a credible government with.

    It looks like a big switch from Green to Labour. Although I think that 4% and 9% are the irreducible minimum for the Greens and UKIP respectively, and the two big parties will have to take votes off each other to achieve a decisive lead with ICM.
    The Lib dems look to me like they will lose over 30 seats now, at least 8 to the SNP, putting them down in the mid 20s. The idea that they are a good bet to gain Watford or anywhere else seems frankly absurd to me.
    The reason why the LibDems are competitive in Watford is because not every seat will perform under UNS.

    Oh I am convinced that with a well known and liked local candidate they will significantly out perform the UNS. But win?? It's preposterous.

    If the Lib Dems were back up to 13% and climbing she would be well in the game. But they're not.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,938
    perdix said:

    £780 million given last week to private health companies to operate in the NHS, while sevices have endured 4 years of cuts.How many more fire sales will there be before the next election?

    IIRC the budget for the NHS has increased under this government, unlike Labour's plan. There has been no firesale, no asserts are being sold. Money is being spent to eliminate the backlog of treatments.

    They count the Better Care Fund monies stolen from the NHS as health spending even though it is been spent by local councils on potholes though.

    £3.9bn not ring fenced for health that was previously
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,938
    10 mins to Lord Ashcroft Randomly Generated Election Result (LARGER)
  • Options
    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    edited March 2015
    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Lib Dems on 8% with ICM is like being on 5 or 6% with other opinion pollsters.

    Weighting to 2010 vote is like weighting Harry Kane's goals to his 2013/14 ratio
    MikeK said:

    It's all Crystal Ball gazing.
    In fact my crystal ball - I actually have a genuine one at home - shows much clearer mud, than all the pollsters do. ;)

    Damn biased pollsters !
    I wouldn't say any pollster is biased, and as that is a banning offence on here I'd like you to retract that insinuation if you would?

    But weighting UKIP and the Lib Dems to their 2010 result is nonsense in my opinion
    If that 9 had been a 15 we wouldn't be having this conversation. ICM did well last time.
    What a ridiculous thing to say! The reason it isn't nearer to 15 is because they weight to 2010 vote, which seems a bit stale to me.

    But you have a meme to push, for your own sanity no doubt, press on

    Oooh handbag.
    Not at all..

    No retraction of accusing me of saying the pollster was biased?

    Want to make a bet on UKIP under/over 9%?
    You didn't say biased - apologies. But a robust examination of the methodology coincided with another poor poll score for your party.

    Do you think weighting to when UKIP got 3% is a wise move in assessing where they are now? Or things much the same as 2010?
    The sample should have 3% of 2010 voters as being UKIP voters. There's a problem if new UKIP converts misremember and come to believe that they voted UKIP in 2010, but I don't know of an alternative approach that doesn't result in the pollster basically guessing - as Populus appear to have done with adjustments to their party ID weightings.

    The key thing with UKIP will be how many switchers they pick up from the other parties. For whatever reason these percentages are quite low in ICM polls: 9%, 8% and 5% for Con, Lab and Lib Dem in the February ICM, compared to 17%, 7% and 12% in the latest Sunday Times YouGov.

    That discrepancy has nothing to do with whether the sample is weighted to past vote, and everything to do with how the sample is gathered.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited March 2015
    Pulpstar said:

    I'm selling tax at 108.

    2014 84 mentions
    2013 69
    2012 123
    2011 95
    2010 83

    Some of those are "taxation", so not sure how SPIN settles that, but its a sell for small (10p) stakes for me.

    "Any incidence of this word or a variation of this word root will count, eg Taxation and taxpayer do count, taxi and taxidermy do not count."

    I agree it's a sell. 2012 was an exceptional case because it was all about reforms to the tax system. This time it's about those sunny uplands which are in reach as long as voters are not so stupid as to risk changing the crew.
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,022

    Ah, you just changed it.

    Yes - sorry You were quicker than me!
  • Options
    Barnesian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    timmo said:

    The remaining rump of the LibDems are putting in a concerted effort though..
    Here in Sutton where they have Brake and Burstow as MPs they have through the LD phonebank machine rung the whole constituency twice already.
    Sutton and Cheam which is a target 40/40 seat is getting visits from cabinet ministers galore by the Tories and there is a real Stalingrad feel to the fight on the street. In C&W its much more low key with most pundits expecting a comfortable win for Brake.

    Sutton and Cheam and Carshalton and Wellington will be held even if the Lib Dems go sub 15 seats or so. Probably sub 10
    The really interesting one is Bermondsey. My instinct is that a continued strong personal vote will see Hughes over the line, but it's touch and go - Labour seem to be doing really well in the inner-London suburbs.
    I make Bermondsey a 4,000 majority for the LibDems.
    Do you fancy a £20 evens bet on that - I'll even give you another 500 votes, so that if the LibDems win by >3500 votes you win, if they win by < 3500 votes (or lose the seat) then I win?
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013
    DavidL said:

    JackW said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Very mixed ICM for the Tories. On the one hand to hold 36% is very impressive suggesting that their share of the vote might even go up in May. On the other Labour are right on their tails and going to gain a shedload of seats to offset the disaster in Scotland.

    This is heading for a serious guddle, probably with Labour as the largest party but it is going to be too close to form a credible government with.

    It looks like a big switch from Green to Labour. Although I think that 4% and 9% are the irreducible minimum for the Greens and UKIP respectively, and the two big parties will have to take votes off each other to achieve a decisive lead with ICM.
    The Lib dems look to me like they will lose over 30 seats now, at least 8 to the SNP, putting them down in the mid 20s. The idea that they are a good bet to gain Watford or anywhere else seems frankly absurd to me.
    The reason why the LibDems are competitive in Watford is because not every seat will perform under UNS.

    Oh I am convinced that with a well known and liked local candidate they will significantly out perform the UNS. But win?? It's preposterous.

    If the Lib Dems were back up to 13% and climbing she would be well in the game. But they're not.
    But, look how Dorothy Thornhill did in the Mayoral election, along with Lib Dem candidates, notwithstanding the overall result for the Lib Dems.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,591

    Pulpstar said:

    I'm selling tax at 108.

    2014 84 mentions
    2013 69
    2012 123
    2011 95
    2010 83

    Some of those are "taxation", so not sure how SPIN settles that, but its a sell for small (10p) stakes for me.

    "Any incidence of this word or a variation of this word root will count, eg Taxation and taxpayer do count, taxi and taxidermy do not count."

    I agree it's a sell. 2012 was an exceptional case because it was all about reforms to the tax system. This time it's about those sunny uplands which we are in reach as long as voters are not so stupid as to risk changing the crew.
    Has anyone got to sunny uplands in a boat since Noah?
  • Options
    taffys said:

    The most fascinating seat is Hornsey that should be a comfortable Lab GAIN but from what I'm hearing is going to be a dog fight to the finish - TCTC.

    Labour's actual vote to be a pale shadow of their poll score??

    You don;t say....

    I'd be amazed if Labour don't pick this seat up. In Muswell Hill there's loads of activity from the Red's at the moment.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,054

    Sporting have put up a number of interesting spread bets relating to George Osborne's Budget speech:

    http://www.sportingindex.com/spread-betting/politics/british/mm4.uk.meeting.5077288/the-2015-budget

    One which caught my eye was the number of mentions of the word "billion" where the spread is 28 to sell - 30 to buy. Since the speech is reckoned to last around 55 - 60 minutes, that would work out at around two "mentions" per minute ..... not too demanding I would have thought and I'd be a modest buyer at this level.

    2012: 31
    2013: 23
    2014: 25

    The price looks about right, maybe a smidgen on the high side if anything.
    2014 25
    2013 23
    2012 31
    2011 16
    2010 40

    ----------

    27 Average
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,053
    Miss Cyclefree, cheers for that link. A very interesting article indeed.
  • Options
    enfantenfant Posts: 34
    I hope that Barnesian does not back up his predictions for Hornsey and Bermondsey with money.!
    Regarding Brent,you can treble his projected 1700 Labour majority
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,054

    Sporting have put up a number of interesting spread bets relating to George Osborne's Budget speech:

    http://www.sportingindex.com/spread-betting/politics/british/mm4.uk.meeting.5077288/the-2015-budget

    One which caught my eye was the number of mentions of the word "billion" where the spread is 28 to sell - 30 to buy. Since the speech is reckoned to last around 55 - 60 minutes, that would work out at around two "mentions" per minute ..... not too demanding I would have thought and I'd be a modest buyer at this level.

    2012: 31
    2013: 23
    2014: 25

    The price looks about right, maybe a smidgen on the high side if anything.
    Have you seen my tax analysis, definite sell. But make sure you aren't stuck for too much if he DOES mention it 200 times or w/e so one for small stakes ;)
  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Very mixed ICM for the Tories. On the one hand to hold 36% is very impressive suggesting that their share of the vote might even go up in May. On the other Labour are right on their tails and going to gain a shedload of seats to offset the disaster in Scotland.

    This is heading for a serious guddle, probably with Labour as the largest party but it is going to be too close to form a credible government with.

    It looks like a big switch from Green to Labour. Although I think that 4% and 9% are the irreducible minimum for the Greens and UKIP respectively, and the two big parties will have to take votes off each other to achieve a decisive lead with ICM.
    Just as well Dave got the Greens into the debates eh? Pity that might actually hurt them rather than help.

    At the moment I still expect the tories to lose 50 seats to Labour and maybe 2 to UKIP. They will probably gain 12-15 from the Lib Dems on these scores which will put them in the mid 260s.

    Labour will gain 50 from the tories and maybe a dozen from the Lib Dems but will lose 30+ to the SNP putting them in the low 280s.

    The Lib dems look to me like they will lose over 30 seats now, at least 8 to the SNP, putting them down in the mid 20s. The idea that they are a good bet to gain Watford or anywhere else seems frankly absurd to me.

    These figures for me are edging Labour's way as we get closer and swingback still looks more noticeable for its absence. I am pretty sure my estimate in the competition was more favourable to the Tories than this but we are where we are as that lying scumbag used to say.
    Any poll that has UKIP consistently 40% below the rest of the market needs looking at very closely - and then rejecting.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013
    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Very mixed ICM for the Tories. On the one hand to hold 36% is very impressive suggesting that their share of the vote might even go up in May. On the other Labour are right on their tails and going to gain a shedload of seats to offset the disaster in Scotland.

    This is heading for a serious guddle, probably with Labour as the largest party but it is going to be too close to form a credible government with.

    It looks like a big switch from Green to Labour. Although I think that 4% and 9% are the irreducible minimum for the Greens and UKIP respectively, and the two big parties will have to take votes off each other to achieve a decisive lead with ICM.
    Just as well Dave got the Greens into the debates eh? Pity that might actually hurt them rather than help.

    At the moment I still expect the tories to lose 50 seats to Labour and maybe 2 to UKIP. They will probably gain 12-15 from the Lib Dems on these scores which will put them in the mid 260s.

    Labour will gain 50 from the tories and maybe a dozen from the Lib Dems but will lose 30+ to the SNP putting them in the low 280s.

    The Lib dems look to me like they will lose over 30 seats now, at least 8 to the SNP, putting them down in the mid 20s. The idea that they are a good bet to gain Watford or anywhere else seems frankly absurd to me.

    These figures for me are edging Labour's way as we get closer and swingback still looks more noticeable for its absence. I am pretty sure my estimate in the competition was more favourable to the Tories than this but we are where we are as that lying scumbag used to say.
    Well, ICM did have the Conservatives 5% behind Labour in December, and 3% behind in January, so I'd say that swingback has occurred.
  • Options
    ArtistArtist Posts: 1,883
    edited March 2015
    How do Lib Dem MPs in Lab/Lib marginals respond to Labour's argument that every seat they take off the Lib Dems and Tories is a seat closer to ending the current coalition and having a change of government. There are no rumblings whatsoever that the Lib Dems and Labour could work together after May. It'll take a massive personal vote to overcome that in these seats IMO.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    timmo said:

    The remaining rump of the LibDems are putting in a concerted effort though..
    Here in Sutton where they have Brake and Burstow as MPs they have through the LD phonebank machine rung the whole constituency twice already.
    Sutton and Cheam which is a target 40/40 seat is getting visits from cabinet ministers galore by the Tories and there is a real Stalingrad feel to the fight on the street. In C&W its much more low key with most pundits expecting a comfortable win for Brake.

    Sutton and Cheam and Carshalton and Wellington will be held even if the Lib Dems go sub 15 seats or so. Probably sub 10
    The really interesting one is Bermondsey. My instinct is that a continued strong personal vote will see Hughes over the line, but it's touch and go - Labour seem to be doing really well in the inner-London suburbs.
    Sutton, Carshalton, Twickenham, and Bermondsey will all be Lib Dem holds in London, IMHO.

    The only one that seems like a certain loss is Brent Central. I think Hornsey is a probable loss, Kingston a probable hold.
    I think Kingston will be a LibDem HOLD. The most fascinating seat is Hornsey that should be a comfortable Lab GAIN but from what I'm hearing is going to be a dog fight to the finish - TCTC.

    I'm told by those canvassing in Hornsey that many voters think that Lynne Featherstone IS the LAB candidate.

    "Lynne Featherstone IS the LAB candidate."

    Islamic terrorism at Ally Pally !!

  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,591
    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    JackW said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Very mixed ICM for the Tories. On the one hand to hold 36% is very impressive suggesting that their share of the vote might even go up in May. On the other Labour are right on their tails and going to gain a shedload of seats to offset the disaster in Scotland.

    This is heading for a serious guddle, probably with Labour as the largest party but it is going to be too close to form a credible government with.

    It looks like a big switch from Green to Labour. Although I think that 4% and 9% are the irreducible minimum for the Greens and UKIP respectively, and the two big parties will have to take votes off each other to achieve a decisive lead with ICM.
    The Lib dems look to me like they will lose over 30 seats now, at least 8 to the SNP, putting them down in the mid 20s. The idea that they are a good bet to gain Watford or anywhere else seems frankly absurd to me.
    The reason why the LibDems are competitive in Watford is because not every seat will perform under UNS.

    Oh I am convinced that with a well known and liked local candidate they will significantly out perform the UNS. But win?? It's preposterous.

    If the Lib Dems were back up to 13% and climbing she would be well in the game. But they're not.
    But, look how Dorothy Thornhill did in the Mayoral election, along with Lib Dem candidates, notwithstanding the overall result for the Lib Dems.
    We shall see. This is not a local election, it is a national one and I think she has no chance in what the Americans call a wave election.

    I wish it wasn't so. I think the Lib Dems have contributed very positively to the governance of this country over the last 5 years providing stability, consistency and some sensible moderation. But I seem to be in a very, very small minority in believing that.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,959
    Con holding on to a lead with ICM seems a big moment?
  • Options
    Lord Ashcroft poll

    Con 31 (-3) Lab 29 (-1) LD 8 (+3) UKIP 15 (nc) Greens 8 (nc) Others 9 (+2)

    That's the third poll today so far without a Labour lead.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Pulpstar said:

    Sporting have put up a number of interesting spread bets relating to George Osborne's Budget speech:

    http://www.sportingindex.com/spread-betting/politics/british/mm4.uk.meeting.5077288/the-2015-budget

    One which caught my eye was the number of mentions of the word "billion" where the spread is 28 to sell - 30 to buy. Since the speech is reckoned to last around 55 - 60 minutes, that would work out at around two "mentions" per minute ..... not too demanding I would have thought and I'd be a modest buyer at this level.

    2012: 31
    2013: 23
    2014: 25

    The price looks about right, maybe a smidgen on the high side if anything.
    Have you seen my tax analysis, definite sell. But make sure you aren't stuck for too much if he DOES mention it 200 times or w/e so one for small stakes ;)
    I sold at £2 a mention. Nothing ventured, nothing gained!
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,995
    JackW said:

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    timmo said:

    The remaining rump of the LibDems are putting in a concerted effort though..
    Here in Sutton where they have Brake and Burstow as MPs they have through the LD phonebank machine rung the whole constituency twice already.
    Sutton and Cheam which is a target 40/40 seat is getting visits from cabinet ministers galore by the Tories and there is a real Stalingrad feel to the fight on the street. In C&W its much more low key with most pundits expecting a comfortable win for Brake.

    Sutton and Cheam and Carshalton and Wellington will be held even if the Lib Dems go sub 15 seats or so. Probably sub 10
    The really interesting one is Bermondsey. My instinct is that a continued strong personal vote will see Hughes over the line, but it's touch and go - Labour seem to be doing really well in the inner-London suburbs.
    Sutton, Carshalton, Twickenham, and Bermondsey will all be Lib Dem holds in London, IMHO.

    The only one that seems like a certain loss is Brent Central. I think Hornsey is a probable loss, Kingston a probable hold.
    I think Kingston will be a LibDem HOLD. The most fascinating seat is Hornsey that should be a comfortable Lab GAIN but from what I'm hearing is going to be a dog fight to the finish - TCTC.

    The key in Hornsey will be the Tory vote. Given on-going uber-gentrification in those parts of the constituency with £ million plus houses (Highgate, Muswell Hill, Crouch End), it would not be a huge surprise to see that rise. If it does, Ms Featherstone may be in trouble as you'd expect the Labour vote to go up too.

  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited March 2015
    2010 : Lab + Con = 65.1 %
    2015 (Mar) ICM : Lab + Con = 71% (+6%)
    2015 (Mar) Ash : Lab + Con = 60% (-5%)

    Rise or fall of the small parties ?


  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    DavidL said:

    JackW said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Very mixed ICM for the Tories. On the one hand to hold 36% is very impressive suggesting that their share of the vote might even go up in May. On the other Labour are right on their tails and going to gain a shedload of seats to offset the disaster in Scotland.

    This is heading for a serious guddle, probably with Labour as the largest party but it is going to be too close to form a credible government with.

    It looks like a big switch from Green to Labour. Although I think that 4% and 9% are the irreducible minimum for the Greens and UKIP respectively, and the two big parties will have to take votes off each other to achieve a decisive lead with ICM.
    The Lib dems look to me like they will lose over 30 seats now, at least 8 to the SNP, putting them down in the mid 20s. The idea that they are a good bet to gain Watford or anywhere else seems frankly absurd to me.
    The reason why the LibDems are competitive in Watford is because not every seat will perform under UNS.

    Oh I am convinced that with a well known and liked local candidate they will significantly out perform the UNS. But win?? It's preposterous.

    If the Lib Dems were back up to 13% and climbing she would be well in the game. But they're not.
    Dorothy Thornhill has been spanking the opposition for years when the yellow peril were nationally on 23% and recently when they've hit the wall. In seats such as Watford national polling is next to irrelevant.

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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,959
    edited March 2015

    Lord Ashcroft poll

    Con 31 (-3) Lab 29 (-1) LD 8 (+3) UKIP 15 (nc) Greens 8 (nc) Others 9 (+2)

    That's the third poll today so far without a Labour lead.

    What on earth is the SNP score with Lord A? Must be over 5%?

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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    On Watford: narrow Tory hold is my expectation.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,036

    Lord Ashcroft poll

    Con 31 (-3) Lab 29 (-1) LD 8 (+3) UKIP 15 (nc) Greens 8 (nc) Others 9 (+2)

    That's the third poll today so far without a Labour lead.

    Shall we play guess the pollster, or does Ashcroft apply his own weighting?
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    Pulpstar said:

    I'm selling tax at 108.

    2014 84 mentions
    2013 69
    2012 123
    2011 95
    2010 83

    Some of those are "taxation", so not sure how SPIN settles that, but its a sell for small (10p) stakes for me.

    "Any incidence of this word or a variation of this word root will count, eg Taxation and taxpayer do count, taxi and taxidermy do not count."

    I agree it's a sell. 2012 was an exceptional case because it was all about reforms to the tax system. This time it's about those sunny uplands which are in reach as long as voters are not so stupid as to risk changing the crew.
    Don't forget that the sppech is expected to be around 30% longer than usual (55-60 mins vs 45 mins) and given its inevitable political nature, it's bound to focus a good deal on personal tax issues. Therefore 108 may prove to be close to the mark, but I agree it'sunlikely to exceed this figure.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Others on 9% in Ashcroft and 8% in ICM.. how can this be???
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    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138

    taffys said:

    The most fascinating seat is Hornsey that should be a comfortable Lab GAIN but from what I'm hearing is going to be a dog fight to the finish - TCTC. Labour's actual vote to be a pale shadow of their poll score?

    I'd be amazed if Labour don't pick this seat up. In Muswell Hill there's loads of activity from the Red's at the moment.
    But the Lib Dems are doing a very effective squeeze of the Conservative vote, aren´t they?

    Moreover it appears that the Conservatives are telling all their peope to vote Lib Dem. Good.

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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    TGOHF said:

    2010 : Lab + Con = 65.1 %
    2015 (Mar) ICM : Lab + Con = 71% (+6%)
    2015 (Mar) Ash : Lab + Con = 60% (-5%)

    Rise or fall of the small parties ?


    Ashcroft (4pm) 60%
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    timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    RobD said:

    Lord Ashcroft poll

    Con 31 (-3) Lab 29 (-1) LD 8 (+3) UKIP 15 (nc) Greens 8 (nc) Others 9 (+2)

    That's the third poll today so far without a Labour lead.

    Shall we play guess the pollster, or does Ashcroft apply his own weighting?
    Who are the others in this?
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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,022

    Barnesian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    timmo said:

    The remaining rump of the LibDems are putting in a concerted effort though..
    Here in Sutton where they have Brake and Burstow as MPs they have through the LD phonebank machine rung the whole constituency twice already.
    Sutton and Cheam which is a target 40/40 seat is getting visits from cabinet ministers galore by the Tories and there is a real Stalingrad feel to the fight on the street. In C&W its much more low key with most pundits expecting a comfortable win for Brake.

    Sutton and Cheam and Carshalton and Wellington will be held even if the Lib Dems go sub 15 seats or so. Probably sub 10
    The really interesting one is Bermondsey. My instinct is that a continued strong personal vote will see Hughes over the line, but it's touch and go - Labour seem to be doing really well in the inner-London suburbs.
    I make Bermondsey a 4,000 majority for the LibDems.
    Do you fancy a £20 evens bet on that - I'll even give you another 500 votes, so that if the LibDems win by >3500 votes you win, if they win by < 3500 votes (or lose the seat) then I win?
    No thanks PfP but let's remember this conversation on election night.

    I am relying on a rather complex switching matrix which I fine tune as the various polls come out and apply to each constituency. I have no local knowledge. In many cases I think that might be an advantage when analysing possible results as I don't rely on any anecdotes or feelings. But perhaps Bermondsey is an exception. We shall see.
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    I'm scratching my head at Lab+Con = 60% in Ashcroft and 71% with ICM. Their methodology is pretty similar as far as I can make out.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013

    JackW said:

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    timmo said:

    The remaining rump of the LibDems are putting in a concerted effort though..
    Here in Sutton where they have Brake and Burstow as MPs they have through the LD phonebank machine rung the whole constituency twice already.
    Sutton and Cheam which is a target 40/40 seat is getting visits from cabinet ministers galore by the Tories and there is a real Stalingrad feel to the fight on the street. In C&W its much more low key with most pundits expecting a comfortable win for Brake.

    Sutton and Cheam and Carshalton and Wellington will be held even if the Lib Dems go sub 15 seats or so. Probably sub 10
    The really interesting one is Bermondsey. My instinct is that a continued strong personal vote will see Hughes over the line, but it's touch and go - Labour seem to be doing really well in the inner-London suburbs.
    Sutton, Carshalton, Twickenham, and Bermondsey will all be Lib Dem holds in London, IMHO.

    The only one that seems like a certain loss is Brent Central. I think Hornsey is a probable loss, Kingston a probable hold.
    I think Kingston will be a LibDem HOLD. The most fascinating seat is Hornsey that should be a comfortable Lab GAIN but from what I'm hearing is going to be a dog fight to the finish - TCTC.

    The key in Hornsey will be the Tory vote. Given on-going uber-gentrification in those parts of the constituency with £ million plus houses (Highgate, Muswell Hill, Crouch End), it would not be a huge surprise to see that rise. If it does, Ms Featherstone may be in trouble as you'd expect the Labour vote to go up too.

    I doubt if gentrification would make any difference to the Tory vote here. They're trendy upper middle class rather than Tory upper middle class in this seat.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    2010 : Lab + Con = 65.1 %
    2015 (Mar) ICM : Lab + Con = 71% (+6%)
    2015 (Mar) Ash : Lab + Con = 60% (-5%)

    Rise or fall of the small parties ?


    Ashcroft (4pm) 60%
    Something definitely out of kilter between the pollsters.
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    Despite this, if each of the leaders found themselves with the unexpected luxury of a free Friday night they would not necessarily all spend it in the same way, according to our groups. Mr Farage would inevitably go to the pub, possibly after a spot of fishing, or, for the cynics, “to a French restaurant with his German wife to complain about immigration”.

    Mr Clegg, a likeable “family man”, would take his wife and children ten-pin bowling, or stay in with them to watch Bake Off.

    Mr Miliband, if he did not have a “posh dinner party” planned, would be playing with the train set some suspect he has in his loft, or spend the time “reading the opinion polls for something to grab onto” (though the disparagers didn’t have much conviction here: of course he would make the most of extra time with his family).

    Mr Cameron, meanwhile, would “get a helicopter to Cornwall” with Sam and the kids, where he would take the country air to help him focus on the job. Should the family be away, however, he would go “to his club” to engage in “mildly inappropriate banter with Conservative MPs and eight bottles of Cabernet Sauvignon.”
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    edited March 2015
    ICM Commentary from the Guardian:

    ICM records the SNP on 5% overall. In Scotland, in a small sub-sample of the overall poll, their level of support is recorded at 56%....

    Across the whole of Great Britain, 43% of voters say that they would be “worried about a separatist party deciding who runs the UK”, far more than the mere 14% who feel enthusiastic about “a different party shaking things up at Westminster”.

    ICM tested voters’ financial mood using a tracker question about feelings about “the economy ... your financial position, and your ability to keep up with the cost of living”, and confirmed a generally positive mood, with 61% of respondents reporting that they felt confident, as against just 38% who were not confident.

    This is the exact reverse of the figures for the depths of the credit crunch, in July 2008, when by 61% to 38% voters said that they were not confident..........

    The Labour leader does a little better on the empathy question, with 58% dismissing the idea that he “understands people like me”, and only 34% agreeing, a net negative of -24.

    Miliband does comparably badly on the “courage” question, with a 59% rejecting the idea he would speak inconvenient truths, and just 33% accepting it, a net negative of -26.

    But then on the important question of whether voters perceive he would be “good in a crisis,” Miliband fares worst of all – with 60% of voters giving him the thumbs down, and only 18% endorsing him, a gap of 42 points. All these Miliband scores have slipped since November 2013, when he received a net negative of 16 on empathy, -31 on crisis management, and a net zero for courage.

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    I'm scratching my head at Lab+Con = 60% in Ashcroft and 71% with ICM. Their methodology is pretty similar as far as I can make out.

    I have a theory on this, but I'm waiting for the Guardian to send me the data tables.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,054
    Ashcroft has Scotland weighted to 11.5% of the total, thought it was 8% or so myself.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,959
    edited March 2015

    Despite this, if each of the leaders found themselves with the unexpected luxury of a free Friday night they would not necessarily all spend it in the same way, according to our groups. Mr Farage would inevitably go to the pub, possibly after a spot of fishing, or, for the cynics, “to a French restaurant with his German wife to complain about immigration”.

    Mr Clegg, a likeable “family man”, would take his wife and children ten-pin bowling, or stay in with them to watch Bake Off.

    Mr Miliband, if he did not have a “posh dinner party” planned, would be playing with the train set some suspect he has in his loft, or spend the time “reading the opinion polls for something to grab onto” (though the disparagers didn’t have much conviction here: of course he would make the most of extra time with his family).

    Mr Cameron, meanwhile, would “get a helicopter to Cornwall” with Sam and the kids, where he would take the country air to help him focus on the job. Should the family be away, however, he would go “to his club” to engage in “mildly inappropriate banter with Conservative MPs and eight bottles of Cabernet Sauvignon.”

    LOL! :smiley::smiley::smiley::smiley::smiley:

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    Hengists_GiftHengists_Gift Posts: 628
    edited March 2015
    Ashcroft National Poll: Con 31%, Lab 29%, Lib Dem 8%, UKIP 15%, Green 8%

    Monday, 16 March, 2015 in The Ashcroft National Poll

    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2015/03/ashcroft-national-poll-con-31-lab-29-lib-dem-8-ukip-15-green-8/#more-11056
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Pulpstar said:

    Ashcroft has Scotland weighted to 11.5% of the total, thought it was 8% or so myself.

    The Scotch are more certain to vote ?
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    peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,875
    edited March 2015
    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    timmo said:

    The remaining rump of the LibDems are putting in a concerted effort though..
    Here in Sutton where they have Brake and Burstow as MPs they have through the LD phonebank machine rung the whole constituency twice already.
    Sutton and Cheam which is a target 40/40 seat is getting visits from cabinet ministers galore by the Tories and there is a real Stalingrad feel to the fight on the street. In C&W its much more low key with most pundits expecting a comfortable win for Brake.

    Sutton and Cheam and Carshalton and Wellington will be held even if the Lib Dems go sub 15 seats or so. Probably sub 10
    The really interesting one is Bermondsey. My instinct is that a continued strong personal vote will see Hughes over the line, but it's touch and go - Labour seem to be doing really well in the inner-London suburbs.
    I make Bermondsey a 4,000 majority for the LibDems.
    Do you fancy a £20 evens bet on that - I'll even give you another 500 votes, so that if the LibDems win by >3500 votes you win, if they win by < 3500 votes (or lose the seat) then I win?
    No thanks PfP but let's remember this conversation on election night.

    I am relying on a rather complex switching matrix which I fine tune as the various polls come out and apply to each constituency. I have no local knowledge. In many cases I think that might be an advantage when analysing possible results as I don't rely on any anecdotes or feelings. But perhaps Bermondsey is an exception. We shall see.
    Fairy Nuff - anyone else want to take this £20 bet on the Bermondsey result, the same rules to apply? Settlement within 7 days of the GE by electronic bank transfer only. First bona fides acceptor by 5.00pm secures the deal.
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    currystarcurrystar Posts: 1,171
    The massive difference in these polls is totally bizarre. We are talking millions of votes difference. Its nuts
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Financier said:

    ICM Commentary from the Guardian:

    ICM records the SNP on 5% overall. In Scotland, in a small sub-sample of the overall poll, their level of support is recorded at 56%....

    Across the whole of Great Britain, 43% of voters say that they would be “worried about a separatist party deciding who runs the UK”, far more than the mere 14% who feel enthusiastic about “a different party shaking things up at Westminster”.

    ICM tested voters’ financial mood using a tracker question about feelings about “the economy ... your financial position, and your ability to keep up with the cost of living”, and confirmed a generally positive mood, with 61% of respondents reporting that they felt confident, as against just 38% who were not confident.

    This is the exact reverse of the figures for the depths of the credit crunch, in July 2008, when by 61% to 38% voters said that they were not confident..........

    The Labour leader does a little better on the empathy question, with 58% dismissing the idea that he “understands people like me”, and only 34% agreeing, a net negative of -24.

    Miliband does comparably badly on the “courage” question, with a 59% rejecting the idea he would speak inconvenient truths, and just 33% accepting it, a net negative of -26.

    But then on the important question of whether voters perceive he would be “good in a crisis,” Miliband fares worst of all – with 60% of voters giving him the thumbs down, and only 18% endorsing him, a gap of 42 points. All these Miliband scores have slipped since November 2013, when he received a net negative of 16 on empathy, -31 on crisis management, and a net zero for courage.

    "ICM records the SNP on 5% overall...."

    How can others be on 8% then? This is baffling

    ...and Ashcroft has others on 9%. It can't be right
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,053
    Surprising lack of bounce in that poll. Almost stable.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,054
    TGOHF said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Ashcroft has Scotland weighted to 11.5% of the total, thought it was 8% or so myself.

    The Scotch are more certain to vote ?
    Yes, that sends it up from 9% to 11.5%.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193
    TGOHF said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Ashcroft has Scotland weighted to 11.5% of the total, thought it was 8% or so myself.

    The Scotch are more certain to vote ?
    The SNP are more certain to vote.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Grant Shapps is badly losing his barnet
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193



    Mr Miliband, if he did not have a “posh dinner party” planned, would be playing with the train set some suspect he has in his loft, or spend the time “reading the opinion polls for something to grab onto” (though the disparagers didn’t have much conviction here: of course he would make the most of extra time with his family).

    How many lofts does Ed have?

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,054
    This election is going to come down to whether Labour can GOTV in the marginals.
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    GIN1138 said:

    Lord Ashcroft poll

    Con 31 (-3) Lab 29 (-1) LD 8 (+3) UKIP 15 (nc) Greens 8 (nc) Others 9 (+2)

    That's the third poll today so far without a Labour lead.

    What on earth is the SNP score with Lord A? Must be over 5%?
    "Another Party" are on 3%, along with Plaid on 1%, SNP on 5% and BNP on <1%.

    That leaves: Respect, assorted other socialists, English Democrats and the odds and sods, gaining the support of 3% between them, which seems a bit optimistic.
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Afternoon all and Lord Ashcroft's 2% Tory lead this afternoon is the first time he has recorded 3 consecutive Tory leads.
This discussion has been closed.