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  • DavidL said:

    I have no love for UKIP and my assessment of Farage is not really suitable for a family site but that farce in Rotherham today is frankly unacceptable.

    I am bewildered that SYP have not been completely disbanded yet. They are a national embarrassment and now they are willing to tolerate the cancellation of the democratic process because doing even one part of their job is apparently too much trouble. Other than boosting the local community with their generous pensions and payoffs what are they for?

    Being a Conservative I suggest you ask Home Secretary Theresa May and Police Minister Mike Penning that.

    If you google Mike Penning South Yorkshire police Rotherham you get:

    https://www.google.co.uk/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=uA_VVI-FFNfCVMWGgoAM&gws_rd=ssl#q=mike+penning+south+yorkshire+police+rotherham

    Been active hasn't he !!! The third link provided, at least to me, is to a comment I posted at UKPR.

    And for Theresa May:

    https://www.google.co.uk/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=uA_VVI-FFNfCVMWGgoAM&gws_rd=ssl#q=theresa+may+south+yorkshire+police+rotherham

    Most recent link is from 16th September.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,025
    SeanT said:

    Too many errors. Tsk.

    If either of them play like this against NZ they will be slaughtered.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Breaking News: Impasse in Moscow...... more to follow.....
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    edited February 2015
    @Smarmeron

    'It isn't that one racial or cultural type is involved'

    One is on an industrial scale which you obviously choose to ignore.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,591
    Wales 5 minutes late coming out at the start is as nothing to the 2nd half, where there is no sign of them showing up at all.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @MikeK
    Where can I get odds on the Patriots versus the ICBM's please?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Richard Elvin ‏@globalrichard 1m1 minute ago
    How the Establishment Is Trying to Destroy UKIP - and Why It Will Fail - Breitbart http://bit.ly/14tFkr3 via @BreitbartNews
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,591
    Ridiculous. They went 3 phases back to find a nonsense penalty.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Martin Rowson on Greece and Ukraine – cartoon http://t.co/HxAKXhGgtX pic.twitter.com/l4uIr0zDYm

    — Guardian news (@guardiannews) February 6, 2015
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Dair says -- ''The UK is not "my country". And even if it were, I fail to see how tokenistic power projection has any bearing on one's "love" for country.''

    I see what you did there - although it may be that you are as pig ignorant as you sound. A total misrepresentation of the facts motives and outcomes is not uncommon even on here, but you take the biscuit.
    The UK is not a backwarter
    The UK is not engaged in tokenism
    The UK is not engaged in power projection - which I take to mean selfish domination.

    I see very little wrong with admiration of one's country for its selfless activities in supporting its NATO and UN treaty obligations which are primarily involved either bringing or supporting democracy to those parts of the world which need it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,580
    Not England's night I fear. I cannot say I was aware of the two phases rule, but if that is right then an incorrect call.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,025
    I think that was the right decision but England deserve another try. I think all this absurd hype has done Wales no good at all.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited February 2015
    I wonder how much stuff there is on record about Stephen Lawrence's case from politicians now curiously silent on the Rotherham Race Rapes.

    People pontificating about the terrible inactivity of the authorities, alongside the racial profiling of the victim, tardy and suspicious treatment of victims and their families.

    Was Rotherham council institutionally racist?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,963
    edited February 2015
    Swing low, Sweeeeeet Chariot.

    We're timing our run for the World Cup perfectly.

    The nonsense in the tunnel pre-match was Dublin 2003 all over again.

    An omen.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,580

    Dair says -- ''The UK is not "my country". And even if it were, I fail to see how tokenistic power projection has any bearing on one's "love" for country.''

    I see what you did there - although it may be that you are as pig ignorant as you sound. A total misrepresentation of the facts motives and outcomes is not uncommon even on here, but you take the biscuit.
    The UK is not a backwarter
    The UK is not engaged in tokenism
    The UK is not engaged in power projection - which I take to mean selfish domination.

    I see very little wrong with admiration of one's country for its selfless activities in supporting its NATO and UN treaty obligations which are primarily involved either bringing or supporting democracy to those parts of the world which need it.

    I doubt our actions are selfless - that would be a very bizarre thing in foreign relations - but I would agree with you three main points. That we engage in powerplay games like any other nation does not mean the arguments on each side are equal, or that ours are automatically worse. In fact they may be better.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    edited February 2015
    @john_zims
    Yes. However, if you take a stroll to a few of your takeaway 24 hour food establishments.
    You will tend to find young people near by chatting to the delivery drivers.
    Take your choice of cuisine.
    It used to be ice cream vans, corner shops, now it is often taxi companies.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    kle4 said:

    Not England's night I fear. I cannot say I was aware of the two phases rule, but if that is right then an incorrect call.

    Eh ?

    We've won !
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,025
    Well done England. They deserved that.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,580
    Good second half display from England, proved me wrong.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,580
    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Not England's night I fear. I cannot say I was aware of the two phases rule, but if that is right then an incorrect call.

    Eh ?

    We've won !
    I'm a glass half empty chap and that was from a few minutes ago.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,025
    Speaking as a Scot that English pack is truly frightening.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,705
    Never has SeanT been more wrong.

    We earnt that. Been a long time coming.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited February 2015
    So the England try that was disallowed for the really obvious crossing.

    The Betfair market went from Wales 3.5 to 13.5 until it was chalked off. If you had brass balls there was a unbelievable amount of "risk free" money to be made.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Wales were weak in all the areas I thought they'd be weak but bugger me they were far weaker than I thought they would be.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    SeanT said:

    Excellent victory for England. Terrific game of rugby.

    Very good sean - lol

  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    England better overall, not a massive fan of the reffing but england better. Wales deserved first half lead but looked very flat in second. May ne something to what Haskell's been saying about them being worn out by fitness training aimed at physicAlly peaking for the world cup
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    That second half was peak England :)

    Like watching Goliath smash up David.
  • Pulpstar said:

    That second half was peak England :)

    Like watching Goliath smash up David.

    Tut like Scipio A smashing up Hanniabl
  • In the Times tomorrow, Andy Burnham says Starbucks, Google & Amazon have damaged the fabric of our life
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,705
    Wales had a 16th man in the post. And even that wasn't enough.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    As a betting note, england are almost always too short odds in a comp due to population size difference and patriotic betting.


    (France available at 13/2 to win 6 nations)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    "Were you intimidated ?"

    Deary me.
  • MikeK said:

    Richard Elvin ‏@globalrichard 1m1 minute ago
    How the Establishment Is Trying to Destroy UKIP - and Why It Will Fail - Breitbart http://bit.ly/14tFkr3 via @BreitbartNews

    It's the last paragraph that really resonates.
  • Times have also done an interview with Tristram Hunt (prior to his Nuns thing)

    Headline is Tristram Hunt: Labour’s next leader?

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/magazine/article4342894.ece
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,025
    So where does the march on Moscow proving to be a complete waste of time leave the BBC story that Cameron is weak and pointless that they have been running so enthusiastically all day? I find it a bit weird that Merkel and Hollande would run off like that without any clear indication of what they were going to get before they arrive. Amateurish. Bit like Ed really.

    I am not a fan of pouring petrol on fires or weapons into war zones but surely providing the Ukrainians with some equivalent kit is the next step.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @TheScreamingEagles
    Pretty much true, our culture is now one of sharp practice and greed.
    We lost Honour and Duty on the way here, and they though are sorely missed, they did die valiantly, if that helps?
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    In the Times tomorrow, Andy Burnham says Starbucks, Google & Amazon have damaged the fabric of our life

    Christ,what's happening with labour,every time they open the mouths,putting foot in it.

  • In the Times tomorrow, Andy Burnham says Starbucks, Google & Amazon have damaged the fabric of our life

    Christ,what's happening with labour,every time they open the mouths,putting foot in it.

    James Forsyth: Andy Burnham in The Times praises Len McCluskey and denounces Milburn and Mandelson. What can he be up to?
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    edited February 2015

    Dair says -- ''The UK is not "my country". And even if it were, I fail to see how tokenistic power projection has any bearing on one's "love" for country.''

    I see what you did there - although it may be that you are as pig ignorant as you sound. A total misrepresentation of the facts motives and outcomes is not uncommon even on here, but you take the biscuit.
    The UK is not a backwarter
    The UK is not engaged in tokenism
    The UK is not engaged in power projection - which I take to mean selfish domination.

    I see very little wrong with admiration of one's country for its selfless activities in supporting its NATO and UN treaty obligations which are primarily involved either bringing or supporting democracy to those parts of the world which need it.

    There is nothing wrong with accepting that one's country is a backwater. In many ways it is far preferable, removing the terrorist target which the UK insists on painting on it's back. But backwater it is, it is not the UK which is leading negotiations in Moscow, the leader in Europe is Germany, followed by France, in fact the UK refuses to accept any real role in Europe due to the infectious disease of base xenophobic racism which pervades vast swathes of the nation.

    Power projection is the ability for a country to exert military influence outside that of a narrow Home Defense role. The UK is sorely lacking in this role, the utter embarrassment of the failed Helmand operations demonstrate just how ill-equipped and ill-suited the British Army is to any sort of functional role in military operations.

    This is a country with a single squadron of Generation 6 Fighter Aircraft and with no Generation 6 Air Superiority platform. Without a single Fast Jet operational Aircraft Carrier. With no operational strategic bomber capability and a woefully outdated tactical bomber capability. Does the standard issue rifle even work yet?

    The UK has had no role I can think of in international relations in the last 20 years. It doesn't lead, it follows the US and does so on a much weaker and ineffectual basis.

    Love the UK if you wish. But seriously, try to be at least a bit realistic of where the country stands in the world today and what influence and capability it actually has.
  • Times have also done an interview with Tristram Hunt (prior to his Nuns thing)

    Headline is Tristram Hunt: Labour’s next leader?

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/magazine/article4342894.ece

    Nobody cares about Nungate – an utter irrelevance everywhere except on PB
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,712
    As one who was brought up to support Wales, the last two games I've watched, Wales have lost. The one I started to watch and had to give up we won.

    The lesson is clear!
  • The full Burnham quote

    Corporate tax avoidance has become a major issue for voters, he believes. “People are really angry about the sense that these companies are not paying their way. Starbucks, Google, Amazon and the rest . . . are damaging our town centres and the fabric of our life but they are not contributing to repair that damage. It’s a moral question.”
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Smarmeron said:

    @TheScreamingEagles
    Pretty much true, our culture is now one of sharp practice and greed.
    We lost Honour and Duty on the way here, and they though are sorely missed, they did die valiantly, if that helps?

    Smarmeron said:

    @TheScreamingEagles
    Pretty much true, our culture is now one of sharp practice and greed.
    We lost Honour and Duty on the way here, and they though are sorely missed, they did die valiantly, if that helps?

    You seem to be missing the Glorious days of the seventies ;-)

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,580

    Times have also done an interview with Tristram Hunt (prior to his Nuns thing)

    Headline is Tristram Hunt: Labour’s next leader?

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/magazine/article4342894.ece

    Nobody cares about Nungate – an utter irrelevance everywhere except on PB
    And Guido.
  • DavidL said:

    Speaking as a Scot that English pack is truly frightening.

    Wait until that 23st prop comes on as a sub for France tomorrow.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    edited February 2015
    @Tykejohnno
    I missed the 70's, the 60's and the 80's are a bit hazy as well.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Times have also done an interview with Tristram Hunt (prior to his Nuns thing)

    Headline is Tristram Hunt: Labour’s next leader?

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/magazine/article4342894.ece

    Nobody cares about Nungate – an utter irrelevance everywhere except on PB
    It's not just nungate,it's a build up of crap coming out of lot's of labour figures.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,514
    edited February 2015
    "Clearly a lot of the change reflects what’s being covered in the media."

    Amazing what can happen if you have a meeting with the state broadcaster about weaponizing the NHS. Since then, BBC can't go a day without a story about the NHS, where as good job numbers and alike done and dusted in a day, back to explaining how 93% of people rather than 95% seen within 4hrs in A&E means the NHS is now like some 3rd world country health system and all because of the Tories....don't mention Labour's involvement in Welsh NHS, Stafford, etc...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411

    Times have also done an interview with Tristram Hunt (prior to his Nuns thing)

    Headline is Tristram Hunt: Labour’s next leader?

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/magazine/article4342894.ece

    Lol.

    No.
  • The full Burnham quote

    Corporate tax avoidance has become a major issue for voters, he believes. “People are really angry about the sense that these companies are not paying their way. Starbucks, Google, Amazon and the rest . . . are damaging our town centres and the fabric of our life but they are not contributing to repair that damage. It’s a moral question.”

    Best leave the single market then.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    In the Times tomorrow, Andy Burnham says Starbucks, Google & Amazon have damaged the fabric of our life


    No, I think it was the flying shuttle.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    The full Burnham quote

    Corporate tax avoidance has become a major issue for voters, he believes. “People are really angry about the sense that these companies are not paying their way. Starbucks, Google, Amazon and the rest . . . are damaging our town centres and the fabric of our life but they are not contributing to repair that damage. It’s a moral question.”

    Has he condemned the Guardian too for their base in the Caymans?
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    The full Burnham quote

    Corporate tax avoidance has become a major issue for voters, he believes. “People are really angry about the sense that these companies are not paying their way. Starbucks, Google, Amazon and the rest . . . are damaging our town centres and the fabric of our life but they are not contributing to repair that damage. It’s a moral question.”

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't GO done more on this than 13 years of Labour?
  • Times have also done an interview with Tristram Hunt (prior to his Nuns thing)

    Headline is Tristram Hunt: Labour’s next leader?

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/magazine/article4342894.ece

    Nobody cares about Nungate – an utter irrelevance everywhere except on PB
    It's not just nungate,it's a build up of crap coming out of lot's of labour figures.

    Not really Tyke. Reading the posts on here you'd be forgiven for thinking Nungate was a disaster – as with everything that Labour ever does according to the shills on here. The Scott_P tendency has burgeoned – thankfully you are usually immune to the insanity.
  • kle4 said:

    Times have also done an interview with Tristram Hunt (prior to his Nuns thing)

    Headline is Tristram Hunt: Labour’s next leader?

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/magazine/article4342894.ece

    Nobody cares about Nungate – an utter irrelevance everywhere except on PB
    And Guido.
    Yes and Guido. LOL.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Times have also done an interview with Tristram Hunt (prior to his Nuns thing)

    Headline is Tristram Hunt: Labour’s next leader?

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/magazine/article4342894.ece

    Lol.

    No.
    Is in tomorrow's Times magazine.

    Timing is awesome.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    WTF is Miliband doing with his letter about tax havens? Is he trying to drive the last business out of Britain? I know it is playing to his anti-business theme - but it is a dangerous, dangerous path.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,025

    DavidL said:

    Speaking as a Scot that English pack is truly frightening.

    Wait until that 23st prop comes on as a sub for France tomorrow.
    I know, modern international rugby is ridiculous. No wonder modern players spend so much time injured.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    No thread on the Telegraph poll on Europe ?
  • The full Burnham quote

    Corporate tax avoidance has become a major issue for voters, he believes. “People are really angry about the sense that these companies are not paying their way. Starbucks, Google, Amazon and the rest . . . are damaging our town centres and the fabric of our life but they are not contributing to repair that damage. It’s a moral question.”

    What is wrong about what he said?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,514
    edited February 2015

    The full Burnham quote

    Corporate tax avoidance has become a major issue for voters, he believes. “People are really angry about the sense that these companies are not paying their way. Starbucks, Google, Amazon and the rest . . . are damaging our town centres and the fabric of our life but they are not contributing to repair that damage. It’s a moral question.”

    Always annoys me when they lump Amazon in Starbucks / Google...They genuinely don't make much profit on those massive sales numbers, and it is something that seriously worries analysts.

    Yes there was the way they arranged their business to minimize VAT, but that is actually passed on to the customer in cheaper prices and that doesn't apply either now. And the argument about killing the bookshop in the high-street is totally bogus one, as no physical stores can carry the inventory.

    Ruthless, yes, efficient, yes, massive profit making organization dodging corporate tax, no.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    edited February 2015
    @oxfordsimon
    Stand up to Putin, and back down to business? Thinking about it, business doesn't have nukes.(or at least not as many as the Russians)?
    ;-)
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Speaking as a Scot that English pack is truly frightening.

    Wait until that 23st prop comes on as a sub for France tomorrow.
    I know, modern international rugby is ridiculous. No wonder modern players spend so much time injured.
    Right. A team weight limit is required asap – the arms race over pack weights needs sorting.
  • WTF is Miliband doing with his letter about tax havens? Is he trying to drive the last business out of Britain? I know it is playing to his anti-business theme - but it is a dangerous, dangerous path.

    No. Not really.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    'David Cameron's NHS shake-up has wasted BILLIONS and made the NHS worse'

    Well i would never have thought that!!!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,580

    The full Burnham quote

    Corporate tax avoidance has become a major issue for voters, he believes. “People are really angry about the sense that these companies are not paying their way. Starbucks, Google, Amazon and the rest . . . are damaging our town centres and the fabric of our life but they are not contributing to repair that damage. It’s a moral question.”

    I don't really see how Starbucks could be accused of damaging our town centres. Granted I personally think there are too many coffee joints in places now, and I don't know how they stay in business - tax avoidance I guess - but they seem about the only things that do well in a lot of town centres in these parts, so more Starbucks is just part of what town centres are now.

    That said, a yawn worthy quote. He's right people are angry about such things, when they see vast companies claim they do not pay tax because they don't make profit, or barely any, despite thousands of stores and years of operation, thanks to clever accounting, but politicians banging on about it is as dull as dishwater. They all do it, they all say it is wrong to one degree or another, and they will do something about it. It's the low hanging fruit of political topics.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    Must be tricky for British businesses to compete with tax dodging Starbucks on one hand and the charity shop paying next to no rates on the other.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,514
    edited February 2015
    kle4 said:

    The full Burnham quote

    Corporate tax avoidance has become a major issue for voters, he believes. “People are really angry about the sense that these companies are not paying their way. Starbucks, Google, Amazon and the rest . . . are damaging our town centres and the fabric of our life but they are not contributing to repair that damage. It’s a moral question.”

    I don't really see how Starbucks could be accused of damaging our town centres. Granted I personally think there are too many coffee joints in places now, and I don't know how they stay in business - tax avoidance I guess - but they seem about the only things that do well in a lot of town centres in these parts, so more Starbucks is just part of what town centres are now.

    That said, a yawn worthy quote. He's right people are angry about such things, when they see vast companies claim they do not pay tax because they don't make profit, or barely any, despite thousands of stores and years of operation, thanks to clever accounting, but politicians banging on about it is as dull as dishwater. They all do it, they all say it is wrong to one degree or another, and they will do something about it. It's the low hanging fruit of political topics.
    Actually Starbucks isn't doing anywhere near as well as people think or they hoped when they came to the UK. Costa is winning the battle hands down for being THE coffee outlet in the UK.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,580

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Speaking as a Scot that English pack is truly frightening.

    Wait until that 23st prop comes on as a sub for France tomorrow.
    I know, modern international rugby is ridiculous. No wonder modern players spend so much time injured.
    Right. A team weight limit is required asap – the arms race over pack weights needs sorting.
    Reminds me of a gag I think from one of the Red Dwarf novelisations about Genetically Engineered Life Forms produced for sport, and that the final straw was a goalkeeper 8ft tall and 16ft wide.
  • kle4 said:

    The full Burnham quote

    Corporate tax avoidance has become a major issue for voters, he believes. “People are really angry about the sense that these companies are not paying their way. Starbucks, Google, Amazon and the rest . . . are damaging our town centres and the fabric of our life but they are not contributing to repair that damage. It’s a moral question.”

    I don't really see how Starbucks could be accused of damaging our town centres. Granted I personally think there are too many coffee joints in places now, and I don't know how they stay in business - tax avoidance I guess - but they seem about the only things that do well in a lot of town centres in these parts, so more Starbucks is just part of what town centres are now.

    That said, a yawn worthy quote. He's right people are angry about such things, when they see vast companies claim they do not pay tax because they don't make profit, or barely any, despite thousands of stores and years of operation, thanks to clever accounting, but politicians banging on about it is as dull as dishwater. They all do it, they all say it is wrong to one degree or another, and they will do something about it. It's the low hanging fruit of political topics.
    The bizarre thing about Starbucks' success is that their coffee is shit. Insipid milky rubbish.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,025

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Speaking as a Scot that English pack is truly frightening.

    Wait until that 23st prop comes on as a sub for France tomorrow.
    I know, modern international rugby is ridiculous. No wonder modern players spend so much time injured.
    Right. A team weight limit is required asap – the arms race over pack weights needs sorting.
    It is a good idea if the game is going to survive in anything like its traditional form.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    In the Times tomorrow, Andy Burnham says Starbucks, Google & Amazon have damaged the fabric of our life

    Christ,what's happening with labour,every time they open the mouths,putting foot in it.

    You do realize all this "anti business" stuff is playing brilliantly on the left?
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    DavidL
    Rugby will probably mate with American Football, and they will have a very ugly child.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,580

    kle4 said:

    The full Burnham quote

    Corporate tax avoidance has become a major issue for voters, he believes. “People are really angry about the sense that these companies are not paying their way. Starbucks, Google, Amazon and the rest . . . are damaging our town centres and the fabric of our life but they are not contributing to repair that damage. It’s a moral question.”

    I don't really see how Starbucks could be accused of damaging our town centres. Granted I personally think there are too many coffee joints in places now, and I don't know how they stay in business - tax avoidance I guess - but they seem about the only things that do well in a lot of town centres in these parts, so more Starbucks is just part of what town centres are now.

    That said, a yawn worthy quote. He's right people are angry about such things, when they see vast companies claim they do not pay tax because they don't make profit, or barely any, despite thousands of stores and years of operation, thanks to clever accounting, but politicians banging on about it is as dull as dishwater. They all do it, they all say it is wrong to one degree or another, and they will do something about it. It's the low hanging fruit of political topics.
    Actually Starbucks isn't doing anywhere near as well as people think or they hoped when they came to the UK. Costa is winning the battle hands down for being THE coffee outlet in the UK.
    I can believe that, I don't see nearly as many Starbucks as I do Costas, purely from an anecdotal perspective. I don't believe they have made as little money from it as they claim though, or that it would take as long as they said it would to do so, given how many years and how many stores they operated. It's one step removed from Hollywood Accounting.

    So I'm not against people bashing them and other companies for it, acknowledging their may well be consequences to trying to make them pay anyway near a fair amount of tax, but anyone trying to score partisan political points from it wins no points from me, as on that at least, the parties really are playing to same basic hymn sheet.
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Speaking as a Scot that English pack is truly frightening.

    Wait until that 23st prop comes on as a sub for France tomorrow.
    I know, modern international rugby is ridiculous. No wonder modern players spend so much time injured.
    Right. A team weight limit is required asap – the arms race over pack weights needs sorting.
    It is a good idea if the game is going to survive in anything like its traditional form.
    I remember having an argument on here about this with one poster saying it was impossible to impose. The debate foundered when it was pointed out that boxing and other fighting sports have managed to regulate weights without problem. It needs to happen.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    WTF is Miliband doing with his letter about tax havens? Is he trying to drive the last business out of Britain? I know it is playing to his anti-business theme - but it is a dangerous, dangerous path.

    Personally if I was starting a business I wouldn't want to be competing with people who could undercut my by using tax havens to reduce their costs.
  • kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Speaking as a Scot that English pack is truly frightening.

    Wait until that 23st prop comes on as a sub for France tomorrow.
    I know, modern international rugby is ridiculous. No wonder modern players spend so much time injured.
    Right. A team weight limit is required asap – the arms race over pack weights needs sorting.
    Reminds me of a gag I think from one of the Red Dwarf novelisations about Genetically Engineered Life Forms produced for sport, and that the final straw was a goalkeeper 8ft tall and 16ft wide.
    Yes. Exactly :)
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    The full Burnham quote

    Corporate tax avoidance has become a major issue for voters, he believes. “People are really angry about the sense that these companies are not paying their way. Starbucks, Google, Amazon and the rest . . . are damaging our town centres and the fabric of our life but they are not contributing to repair that damage. It’s a moral question.”

    Best leave the single market then.
    This is nothing to do with the single market, the single market it just Mae's it slightly easier to select a intermediary tax haven, they all ultimately get channelled to Caribbean tax havens.

    There's a killer quote from the Starbucks chief exec where he boasts about the UK being superproffitable on the investor conference call in a year where the UK accounts show a "loss"
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,580

    kle4 said:

    The full Burnham quote

    Corporate tax avoidance has become a major issue for voters, he believes. “People are really angry about the sense that these companies are not paying their way. Starbucks, Google, Amazon and the rest . . . are damaging our town centres and the fabric of our life but they are not contributing to repair that damage. It’s a moral question.”

    I don't really see how Starbucks could be accused of damaging our town centres. Granted I personally think there are too many coffee joints in places now, and I don't know how they stay in business - tax avoidance I guess - but they seem about the only things that do well in a lot of town centres in these parts, so more Starbucks is just part of what town centres are now.

    That said, a yawn worthy quote. He's right people are angry about such things, when they see vast companies claim they do not pay tax because they don't make profit, or barely any, despite thousands of stores and years of operation, thanks to clever accounting, but politicians banging on about it is as dull as dishwater. They all do it, they all say it is wrong to one degree or another, and they will do something about it. It's the low hanging fruit of political topics.
    The bizarre thing about Starbucks' success is that their coffee is shit. Insipid milky rubbish.
    I assume in that case it is cheap then (I find all Coffee terrible, so wouldn't know), so the company can expand quickly, and people can learn to love bland rubbish over time, as anyone who was raised on cheap food knows only too well.
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    The full Burnham quote

    Corporate tax avoidance has become a major issue for voters, he believes. “People are really angry about the sense that these companies are not paying their way. Starbucks, Google, Amazon and the rest . . . are damaging our town centres and the fabric of our life but they are not contributing to repair that damage. It’s a moral question.”

    I don't really see how Starbucks could be accused of damaging our town centres. Granted I personally think there are too many coffee joints in places now, and I don't know how they stay in business - tax avoidance I guess - but they seem about the only things that do well in a lot of town centres in these parts, so more Starbucks is just part of what town centres are now.

    That said, a yawn worthy quote. He's right people are angry about such things, when they see vast companies claim they do not pay tax because they don't make profit, or barely any, despite thousands of stores and years of operation, thanks to clever accounting, but politicians banging on about it is as dull as dishwater. They all do it, they all say it is wrong to one degree or another, and they will do something about it. It's the low hanging fruit of political topics.
    Actually Starbucks isn't doing anywhere near as well as people think or they hoped when they came to the UK. Costa is winning the battle hands down for being THE coffee outlet in the UK.
    I can believe that, I don't see nearly as many Starbucks as I do Costas, purely from an anecdotal perspective. I don't believe they have made as little money from it as they claim though, or that it would take as long as they said it would to do so, given how many years and how many stores they operated. It's one step removed from Hollywood Accounting.

    So I'm not against people bashing them and other companies for it, acknowledging their may well be consequences to trying to make them pay anyway near a fair amount of tax, but anyone trying to score partisan political points from it wins no points from me, as on that at least, the parties really are playing to same basic hymn sheet.
    Oh don't get me wrong, Starbucks still have a good racket going with their transfer pricing, just saying they aren't doing nearly as well as people think.

    I know that Costa is owned by UK company Whitbread, and I have no idea about their tax arrangements.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    A BBC video on the problems in Venezula.

    Finally exposing the truth about failed socialist governments?

    Letting us know what happens when the Left get out of control?

    No. Apparently it's all down to the fact the oil price has gone down, and the previous years of mess just don't exist...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-31174379

  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Alistair said:

    In the Times tomorrow, Andy Burnham says Starbucks, Google & Amazon have damaged the fabric of our life

    Christ,what's happening with labour,every time they open the mouths,putting foot in it.

    You do realize all this "anti business" stuff is playing brilliantly on the left?
    Yep,core vote strategy.

  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Speaking as a Scot that English pack is truly frightening.

    Wait until that 23st prop comes on as a sub for France tomorrow.
    I know, modern international rugby is ridiculous. No wonder modern players spend so much time injured.
    Right. A team weight limit is required asap – the arms race over pack weights needs sorting.
    It is a good idea if the game is going to survive in anything like its traditional form.
    I remember having an argument on here about this with one poster saying it was impossible to impose. The debate foundered when it was pointed out that boxing and other fighting sports have managed to regulate weights without problem. It needs to happen.
    have you seen those books/articles by yon French bloke and Paul Kimmage? performance enhancement ahoy, so they say
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Speaking as a Scot that English pack is truly frightening.

    Wait until that 23st prop comes on as a sub for France tomorrow.
    I know, modern international rugby is ridiculous. No wonder modern players spend so much time injured.
    Right. A team weight limit is required asap – the arms race over pack weights needs sorting.
    It is a good idea if the game is going to survive in anything like its traditional form.
    I met Chris Robshaw at a dinner just before the Lions tour, I am a big bloke at 6'3" and he is about the same height. However he is also about four feet wide, it seems like he has a steel girder across his shoulders. Sean Fitzpatrick and Gareth Edwards were also there, all lovely people with Edwards an absolute gentleman
  • 'David Cameron's NHS shake-up has wasted BILLIONS and made the NHS worse'

    Well i would never have thought that!!!

    In fairness it was the deranged Lansley that was responsible for this fiasco, not Cameron. Ozzy has since admitted that he suspected the programme was expensive bollocks and then "kicked himself" for failing to stop the madness.

    Bu then who's the bigger fool? The fool himself, or the fool that follows him?
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Speaking as a Scot that English pack is truly frightening.

    Wait until that 23st prop comes on as a sub for France tomorrow.
    I know, modern international rugby is ridiculous. No wonder modern players spend so much time injured.
    Right. A team weight limit is required asap – the arms race over pack weights needs sorting.
    It is a good idea if the game is going to survive in anything like its traditional form.
    The transition of Rugby Union to being indistinguishable from Rugby League is an inevitable outcome of professionalism. They can keep postponing it with fudges and rule changes but at some point the inevitability of uncontested scrums and play the balls will happen.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Speaking as a Scot that English pack is truly frightening.

    Wait until that 23st prop comes on as a sub for France tomorrow.
    I know, modern international rugby is ridiculous. No wonder modern players spend so much time injured.
    Right. A team weight limit is required asap – the arms race over pack weights needs sorting.
    It is a good idea if the game is going to survive in anything like its traditional form.
    I remember having an argument on here about this with one poster saying it was impossible to impose. The debate foundered when it was pointed out that boxing and other fighting sports have managed to regulate weights without problem. It needs to happen.
    have you seen those books/articles by yon French bloke and Paul Kimmage? performance enhancement ahoy, so they say
    The rugby establishments blase attitude about drugs is going to result in a massive scandal. The testing procedures in rugby are pathetic.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    edited February 2015
    Smarmeron said:

    DavidL
    Rugby will probably mate with American Football, and they will have a very ugly child.

    Rugby league?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,025
    Smarmeron said:

    DavidL
    Rugby will probably mate with American Football, and they will have a very ugly child.

    Apparently the average career at the top of American football is about 3 years due to injuries, and they wear armour and crash helmets.
  • Alistair said:

    In the Times tomorrow, Andy Burnham says Starbucks, Google & Amazon have damaged the fabric of our life

    Christ,what's happening with labour,every time they open the mouths,putting foot in it.

    You do realize all this "anti business" stuff is playing brilliantly on the left?
    Yep,core vote strategy.

    Designed to attract core Labour voters like yourself Tyke. Red in tooth and claw. Blue in vote, temporarily.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    DavidL said:

    Smarmeron said:

    DavidL
    Rugby will probably mate with American Football, and they will have a very ugly child.

    Apparently the average career at the top of American football is about 3 years due to injuries, and they wear armour and crash helmets.
    Removing the armour and crash helmets would probably extend their careers, they have a tackling style that leads with their heads.
  • DavidL said:

    Smarmeron said:

    DavidL
    Rugby will probably mate with American Football, and they will have a very ugly child.

    Apparently the average career at the top of American football is about 3 years due to injuries, and they wear armour and crash helmets.
    I played American Football at uni. I can tell you that the armour is necessary. I've played rugby too, but only been taken off the field in a ambulance in one, armour or no.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Please someone catch Ed M offguard with a question on what he thinks when he sees a nun.

    Miliband: I Feel Respect When I See a White Van http://t.co/zlAmQgIyT7 https://t.co/7M9KRb5XXi

    — Guido Fawkes (@GuidoFawkes) November 21, 2014

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,580
    DavidL said:

    Smarmeron said:

    DavidL
    Rugby will probably mate with American Football, and they will have a very ugly child.

    Apparently the average career at the top of American football is about 3 years due to injuries, and they wear armour and crash helmets.
    Surely that is part of the issue, as armour and helmets allow them to throw more force at each other.
    Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Speaking as a Scot that English pack is truly frightening.

    Wait until that 23st prop comes on as a sub for France tomorrow.
    I know, modern international rugby is ridiculous. No wonder modern players spend so much time injured.
    Right. A team weight limit is required asap – the arms race over pack weights needs sorting.
    It is a good idea if the game is going to survive in anything like its traditional form.
    The transition of Rugby Union to being indistinguishable from Rugby League is an inevitable outcome of professionalism. They can keep postponing it with fudges and rule changes but at some point the inevitability of uncontested scrums and play the balls will happen.
    As long as they don't have the six tackles rule, or whatever its called, it should be ok. Though I never understood why, if the scrums are to be uncontested, you don't just restart play some other way - you're just making 4 people bend over and lock arms for no reason.
  • Alistair said:

    DavidL said:

    Smarmeron said:

    DavidL
    Rugby will probably mate with American Football, and they will have a very ugly child.

    Apparently the average career at the top of American football is about 3 years due to injuries, and they wear armour and crash helmets.
    Removing the armour and crash helmets would probably extend their careers, they have a tackling style that leads with their heads.
    Spearing is illegal and dangerous.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @DavidL
    The evolution of AF makes fascinating reading for much the same reasons.
    The banning of the "flying V offence" on the grounds that it was killing too many people?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31158925
    Ukraine crisis: Russia upbeat on Hollande and Merkel talks

    But no word from Hollande and Merkel. Has Putin trumped their cards?
  • Dair said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Speaking as a Scot that English pack is truly frightening.

    Wait until that 23st prop comes on as a sub for France tomorrow.
    I know, modern international rugby is ridiculous. No wonder modern players spend so much time injured.
    Right. A team weight limit is required asap – the arms race over pack weights needs sorting.
    It is a good idea if the game is going to survive in anything like its traditional form.
    The transition of Rugby Union to being indistinguishable from Rugby League is an inevitable outcome of professionalism. They can keep postponing it with fudges and rule changes but at some point the inevitability of uncontested scrums and play the balls will happen.
    That may be the outcome. Having 20st blokes essentially running into brick walls 15 times every game is not the basis on which professional sport is usually founded.
  • Alistair said:

    DavidL said:

    Smarmeron said:

    DavidL
    Rugby will probably mate with American Football, and they will have a very ugly child.

    Apparently the average career at the top of American football is about 3 years due to injuries, and they wear armour and crash helmets.
    Removing the armour and crash helmets would probably extend their careers, they have a tackling style that leads with their heads.
    Spearing is illegal and dangerous.
    Unless you're the All Blacks.

    Sorry, I'm still never forgiving them for the spear challenge on Brian O'Driscoll.
This discussion has been closed.