Were the terrorists in France from Malian families?
It's worth remembering on a day of such horror that the supermarket employee who saved the Jews by hiding them was also from Mali. He has now been given French citizenship in recognition of his humanity and decency.
I thought that the grant of citizenship was a really thoughtful and impressive response by the French. It's probably what he would have valued the most, but also symbolically a powerful statement.
I love to have a dig at the French for a bit of a laugh and then they go and do this and it reminds me how much I admire about them. Perfect response.
On the question of the Jordanian response, my first instinct - which I suspect was shared by many - was to say 'good for them'. But a moment's thought shows that that sort of reaction goes against everything we, as democratic nations, are supposed to be fighting for. It may bring some short term satisfaction but in the end I don't believe it will do anything but cause more problems.
Were the terrorists in France from Malian families?
It's worth remembering on a day of such horror that the supermarket employee who saved the Jews by hiding them was also from Mali. He has now been given French citizenship in recognition of his humanity and decency.
I thought that the grant of citizenship was a really thoughtful and impressive response by the French. It's probably what he would have valued the most, but also symbolically a powerful statement.
I love to have a dig at the French for a bit of a laugh and then they go and do this and it reminds me how much I admire about them. Perfect response.
On the question of the Jordanian response, my first instinct - which I suspect was shared by many - was to say 'good for them'. But a moment's thought shows that that sort of reaction goes against everything we, as democratic nations, are supposed to be fighting for. It may bring some short term satisfaction but in the end I don't believe it will do anything but cause more problems.
I had read a few days ago that the Jordanian government warned IS a few days ago that it would execute all prisoners associated with terrorism if IS harmed the hostages. Whether we agree with that decision, they surely need to go through with it now. Presumably they want to avoid any future bargaining horror situations.
Prime Minister David Cameron has issued a statement on the murder of Lieutenant Moaz al-Kassasbeh.
"I condemn this sickening murder by ISIL’s barbaric terrorists. I pay tribute to the dedication and bravery of Lieutenant Moaz al-Kassasbeh, who as a member of the Jordanian Armed Forces serving in the anti-ISIL Coalition, paid with his life while protecting his country and us all. My thoughts and prayers are with his family tonight at this tragic time."
"These terrorists’ brutal behaviour will only strengthen our resolve. We stand in solidarity with our Jordanian friends and we will continue to work with them and our other Coalition partners to defeat ISIL. Together we are making progress. In the last week, ISIL has been thrown out of Kobane. The Iraqi Armed Forces, with Coalition support, are steadily re-taking territory in Northern Iraq, freeing many thousands from ISIL’s utter cruelty. We will not stop until these evil extremists and their poisonous ideology are defeated."
Were the terrorists in France from Malian families?
It's worth remembering on a day of such horror that the supermarket employee who saved the Jews by hiding them was also from Mali. He has now been given French citizenship in recognition of his humanity and decency.
I thought that the grant of citizenship was a really thoughtful and impressive response by the French. It's probably what he would have valued the most, but also symbolically a powerful statement.
I love to have a dig at the French for a bit of a laugh and then they go and do this and it reminds me how much I admire about them. Perfect response.
On the question of the Jordanian response, my first instinct - which I suspect was shared by many - was to say 'good for them'. But a moment's thought shows that that sort of reaction goes against everything we, as democratic nations, are supposed to be fighting for. It may bring some short term satisfaction but in the end I don't believe it will do anything but cause more problems.
I had read a few days ago that the Jordanian government warned IS a few days ago that it would execute all prisoners associated with terrorism if IS harmed the hostages. Whether we agree with that decision, they surely need to go through with it now. Presumably they want to avoid any future bargaining horror situations.
' Whether we agree with that decision, they surely need to go through with it now. Presumably they want to avoid any future bargaining horror situations.'
They need to do it to pacify their own population.
Were the terrorists in France from Malian families?
It's worth remembering on a day of such horror that the supermarket employee who saved the Jews by hiding them was also from Mali. He has now been given French citizenship in recognition of his humanity and decency.
I thought that the grant of citizenship was a really thoughtful and impressive response by the French. It's probably what he would have valued the most, but also symbolically a powerful statement.
I love to have a dig at the French for a bit of a laugh and then they go and do this and it reminds me how much I admire about them. Perfect response.
On the question of the Jordanian response, my first instinct - which I suspect was shared by many - was to say 'good for them'. But a moment's thought shows that that sort of reaction goes against everything we, as democratic nations, are supposed to be fighting for. It may bring some short term satisfaction but in the end I don't believe it will do anything but cause more problems.
I had read a few days ago that the Jordanian government warned IS a few days ago that it would execute all prisoners associated with terrorism if IS harmed the hostages. Whether we agree with that decision, they surely need to go through with it now. Presumably they want to avoid any future bargaining horror situations.
It would be a mistake to show a lack of resolve.
ISIS are totally dehumanised. They don't care if other countries kill the prisoners -they love it.
Were the terrorists in France from Malian families?
It's worth remembering on a day of such horror that the supermarket employee who saved the Jews by hiding them was also from Mali. He has now been given French citizenship in recognition of his humanity and decency.
I thought that the grant of citizenship was a really thoughtful and impressive response by the French. It's probably what he would have valued the most, but also symbolically a powerful statement.
I love to have a dig at the French for a bit of a laugh and then they go and do this and it reminds me how much I admire about them. Perfect response.
On the question of the Jordanian response, my first instinct - which I suspect was shared by many - was to say 'good for them'. But a moment's thought shows that that sort of reaction goes against everything we, as democratic nations, are supposed to be fighting for. It may bring some short term satisfaction but in the end I don't believe it will do anything but cause more problems.
I had read a few days ago that the Jordanian government warned IS a few days ago that it would execute all prisoners associated with terrorism if IS harmed the hostages. Whether we agree with that decision, they surely need to go through with it now. Presumably they want to avoid any future bargaining horror situations.
It would be a mistake to show a lack of resolve.
ISIS are totally dehumanised. They don't care if other countries kill the prisoners -they love it.
That may be so. But, as Jordan has promised retaliation, it must follow through.
' Whether we agree with that decision, they surely need to go through with it now. Presumably they want to avoid any future bargaining horror situations.'
They need to do it to pacify their own population.
Jordan must be feeling nervous about IS expansion into their territory.
Am I alone in thinking that the deployment of thermobaric weapons on every collection of ISIS members we can find would be an appropriate response to this latest horror?
I quite like the reaction of Sean Fear and our own Southam Observer: point out they're sad wankers that couldn't get laid and have a death fetish.
We might think having a death fetish to be a criticism. Presumably they think this is something wonderful.
But, frankly, worrying about what they think is a fool's errand. What we need to be is utterly ruthless in and focused on eliminating IS and similar offshoots from the face of this earth.
I quite like the reaction of Sean Fear and our own Southam Observer: point out they're sad wankers that couldn't get laid and have a death fetish.
We might think having a death fetish to be a criticism. Presumably they think this is something wonderful.
But, frankly, worrying about what they think is a fool's errand. What we need to be is utterly ruthless in and focused on eliminating IS and similar offshoots from the face of this earth.
That will be somewhat difficult when we've asked Saudi Arabia to train thousands more. That is what they're training there. Wahhabist Militants -there isn't another flavour that you can request.
I just told my wife I wasn't sure if I could sleep tonight, because I'm so excited about the release of Ashcroft's Scottish marginals poll tomorrow morning.
She laughed at first when she thought I wasn't serious. Now she's muttering worries about my mental health.
Were the terrorists in France from Malian families?
It's worth remembering on a day of such horror that the supermarket employee who saved the Jews by hiding them was also from Mali. He has now been given French citizenship in recognition of his humanity and decency.
I thought that the grant of citizenship was a really thoughtful and impressive response by the French. It's probably what he would have valued the most, but also symbolically a powerful statement.
Bet we wouldn't do such a thing. I believe we don't even grant citizenship to foreign soldiers who have served in the colours. They have to apply for it along with everyone else.
To whoever it was asked, this is how the Lib Dems do policy: 1 conference votes to accept, reject or modify policy that is put in front of it 2 the manifesto working group select which bits of that policy end up in the manifesto for the next General Election - but along the way what they pick is subject to wide consultation and conference debates 3 any individual candidate is expected to know what is in the manifesto (and in the policies which didn't make it) if not in complete detail, at least enough to get the key points right; but is free to disagree with individual policy points - as long as they make it clear what is party policy and what is their own opinion. Obviously if you disagreed with the majority of policy, it would be odd. But if you did you probably wouldn't be standing as a candidate.. or, as this is the Lib Dems, quite possibly you would anyway.
If you are a Lib Dem, then policy is pretty easy to work out even if you are not 100% acquainted with the detail because it is based on that simple principle of having the freedom to do what you want up to the point of hurting others. So e.g. we are going to be quite green, because damaging the planet is going to make life difficult for an awful lot of people We are pro-education because you can't really be free if you aren't educated, and in favour of helping the poorest because you can't be free if you are in poverty and believe in progressive taxation for similar reasons plus there is an argument about the superrich hurting others.. Etc etc. Where we get disagreements internally in the party it's usually things like pornography, because we disagree about where to draw the line between ensuring freedom and harm to others. Ditto Trident.
Random obsessive anecdotes about the "Islamist" menace out there.
My GF is a policewoman, she has friends in the TA. One of those female friends walked out of Camden TA yesterday to be greeted by cries of "c*nt" from apparently Muslim men.
Other policewomen have been followed by "Islamists" (the women are told to go into pubs to dodge the threat). This is particularly menacing as ISIS are believed to be planning an attack on army or police, somewhere in Western Europe, an attack which will be unparalleled in its cruelty, sadism and atrociousness (I know the details but I'm not posting them here). Suffice to say it is much worse than anything we've seen yet.
This is happening now. Out there. All the time. Right now. Politicians know this, hence the talk of giving all police tasers.
But if Socrates mentions it he is an "obsessive".
That sounds terrifying. I really hope it never ever happens.
Am I alone in thinking that the deployment of thermobaric weapons on every collection of ISIS members we can find would be an appropriate response to this latest horror?
Make the bastards burn.
I would just let the Jordanian Army have a go at them - just tell them - No mercy - you won't receive any, don't give any.
What will be interesting is to see whether Jordan meets out any 'cruel or unusual' punishment to the ISIS prisoners that they have. Whatever they do will be VERY public.
I just told my wife I wasn't sure if I could sleep tonight, because I'm so excited about the release of Ashcroft's Scottish marginals poll tomorrow morning.
She laughed at first when she thought I wasn't serious. Now she's muttering worries about my mental health.
@PickardJE: Mail apparently has another anti-Labour businessman coming out tonight.
Good will they never learn
I believe the theory is that while people don't like big business people individually, grudging respect for their wealth and wealth generation will, if they state something in large enough numbers, offset the instinctive reaction to ignore or react against whatever it is they say. I don't think there is such universality of business opinion to sway people in that fashion.
I just told my wife I wasn't sure if I could sleep tonight, because I'm so excited about the release of Ashcroft's Scottish marginals poll tomorrow morning.
She laughed at first when she thought I wasn't serious. Now she's muttering worries about my mental health.
I'd reassure you it isn't that crazy, but I don't think reassurance from other political wonks would assist much.
Right now I am in favour of interning, without trial, any UK Islamist who returns from waging jihad with ISIS, and then insists on re-entering Britain.
I would prefer to treat those who adhere to the Queen's enemies as traitors.
I don't see anything wrong, per se, with going abroad to try to overthrow Assad he's a c**t and has it coming. After all, no-one accused George Orwell of being a terrorist when he came back from Catalonia. If we need to recognise the IS so we can declare war on it, lets do that. If we are going to fight wars, lets do it properly.
I suspect the Jordanians will be marching all terrorists on death row to the gallows (it may take some time, apparently they only have one prison where they can carry out executions) and working out how they can take military action killing as many as possible. Good for them. Rather than the platitudes spoken tonight, Obama should be offering them, say, B52s over ar-Raqqa.
I just told my wife I wasn't sure if I could sleep tonight, because I'm so excited about the release of Ashcroft's Scottish marginals poll tomorrow morning.
She laughed at first when she thought I wasn't serious. Now she's muttering worries about my mental health.
I'd reassure you it isn't that crazy, but I don't think reassurance from other political wonks would assist much.
It does. This is the only place (anywhere?) I might actually receive a sympathetic hearing.
SeanT I think it finally took an attack on one of their own, the leftwing satirists at Charlie Hebdo, for the left to realise that accepting groups which put homosexuals to death, flog those committed of adultery and execute blasphemers may not be such a good idea!
Not at all. Large parts of the left still embrace multiculturalism which is an open door for the Islamists and their supporters to walk through.
Wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction. Matthew 7:13
People like Smithson with his smug remark to Socrates are to blame with the nightmare the West is facing.
Are we discussing me or my father? Just to know before I get all uppity...
Probably both Smithson's (Smithson and son) are equally to blame for the "nightmare the West is facing." What are these guys on?
I just told my wife I wasn't sure if I could sleep tonight, because I'm so excited about the release of Ashcroft's Scottish marginals poll tomorrow morning.
She laughed at first when she thought I wasn't serious. Now she's muttering worries about my mental health.
I'd reassure you it isn't that crazy, but I don't think reassurance from other political wonks would assist much.
It does. This is the only place (anywhere?) I might actually receive a sympathetic hearing.
It was quite a relief in some ways around the IndyRef in that even people not really into politics expressed to me they had trouble sleeping that night. Not the same as being excited over polling, but something at least.
Am I alone in thinking that the deployment of thermobaric weapons on every collection of ISIS members we can find would be an appropriate response to this latest horror?
Make the bastards burn.
I would just let the Jordanian Army have a go at them - just tell them - No mercy - you won't receive any, don't give any.
What will be interesting is to see whether Jordan meets out any 'cruel or unusual' punishment to the ISIS prisoners that they have. Whatever they do will be VERY public.
Stake them out in the desert for a few hours in the sun.
Random obsessive anecdotes about the "Islamist" menace out there.
My GF is a policewoman, she has friends in the TA. One of those female friends walked out of Camden TA yesterday to be greeted by cries of "c*nt" from apparently Muslim men.
Other policewomen have been followed by "Islamists" (the women are told to go into pubs to dodge the threat). This is particularly menacing as ISIS are believed to be planning an attack on army or police, somewhere in Western Europe, an attack which will be unparalleled in its cruelty, sadism and atrociousness (I know the details but I'm not posting them here). Suffice to say it is much worse than anything we've seen yet.
This is happening now. Out there. All the time. Right now. Politicians know this, hence the talk of giving all police tasers.
But if Socrates mentions it he is an "obsessive".
There's a Jewish school near my work and the police presence there has been alarming in recent weeks.
I just told my wife I wasn't sure if I could sleep tonight, because I'm so excited about the release of Ashcroft's Scottish marginals poll tomorrow morning.
She laughed at first when she thought I wasn't serious. Now she's muttering worries about my mental health.
I'd reassure you it isn't that crazy, but I don't think reassurance from other political wonks would assist much.
It does. This is the only place (anywhere?) I might actually receive a sympathetic hearing.
I'm not even allowed to talk about political betting at home. I doubt that my other half knows who Lord Ashcroft is.
As I lie awake tonight thinking of Scottish constituencies that I have never visited, wondering just how much money I might win or lose, he will be very soundly asleep. Lucky sod.
Well how many Brits have burned alive anyone today?
I'm isolated from the elements of British culture are the people that whinge on and on about Muslims, that tells me I'm part of a fifth column and I should choose which side I'm on or talk about ragheads on here.
I'm a fan of free speech. When a few Imams/The MCB said freedom of speech should be restricted as not to insult religion a few people on here had near apoplexy saying that this shows Islam is incompatible with being British.
So how many of the same people said on here Christianity is incompatible with being British, when the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Bishop of Rome said Free Speech should be restricted as not to insult religion/religious people.
As someone who is knowledgeable about history and also a fan of gay rights, elements of Islam are homophobic, which is somehow unBritish.
Not so long ago, this country was chemically castrating homosexuals.
I mean is this not practically Islamic?
A Ukip-authorised Christian group has been condemned for distributing a newsletter that refers to gay people as depraved sodomites and argues that they could be converted from a state of vice.
One of the things I've always loved about this country, is the Keep Calm and Carry on mentality. We laughed at the Blackshirts via PG Wodehouse's Roderick Spode. When Londoners have been attacked, by the Germans, the IRA or Islamic Terrorists, the response is great "I've been blown up by a better class of bastard before"
For example if I were to post the joke why I would never be a suicide bomber, I'm sure it would enrage a few, whilst most would laugh.
As Robert notes "Yet, if they were to read some of the comments on here, I suspect they would feel as isolated from British culture as they do from Muslim culture"
But I won't let a few ruin it, CycleFree's comment above is the sort of comment that enhances the site and doesn't make me feel isolated.
Am I alone in thinking that the deployment of thermobaric weapons on every collection of ISIS members we can find would be an appropriate response to this latest horror?
Make the bastards burn.
I would just let the Jordanian Army have a go at them - just tell them - No mercy - you won't receive any, don't give any.
What will be interesting is to see whether Jordan meets out any 'cruel or unusual' punishment to the ISIS prisoners that they have. Whatever they do will be VERY public.
Stake them out in the desert for a few hours in the sun.
Then have this pilot's colleagues napalm them.
Put that on Facebook.
No, we should have very tough, decades long prison sentences, but nothing barbaric they can use as propaganda for their cause. We should also make sure we follow due process in punishing them, to show we are morally, politically and culturally superior to the Islamic world.
However, socially we should mock them as sad, sexually inept losers with inferiority complexes who are afraid of talking to women and couldn't get laid. They crave mythic status above everything else and we should ruthlessly take that from them. The lonely wankers.
I just told my wife I wasn't sure if I could sleep tonight, because I'm so excited about the release of Ashcroft's Scottish marginals poll tomorrow morning.
She laughed at first when she thought I wasn't serious. Now she's muttering worries about my mental health.
Last year, I suggested to Mike, he sets up a support group for the spouses of PBers who think
"Why is my partner so obsessed by political betting"
My low point was, explaining to my wife why I was staying up till 4am to watch the US Presidential Debate, as I had bet on what colour ties Barack Obama and Mitt Romney would be wearing.
I just told my wife I wasn't sure if I could sleep tonight, because I'm so excited about the release of Ashcroft's Scottish marginals poll tomorrow morning.
She laughed at first when she thought I wasn't serious. Now she's muttering worries about my mental health.
Last year, I suggested to Mike, he sets up a support group for the spouses of PBers who think
"Why is my partner so obsessed by political betting"
My low point was, explaining to my wife why I was staying up till 4am to watch the US Presidential Debate, as I had bet on what colour ties Barack Obama and Mitt Romney would be wearing.
I just told my wife I wasn't sure if I could sleep tonight, because I'm so excited about the release of Ashcroft's Scottish marginals poll tomorrow morning.
She laughed at first when she thought I wasn't serious. Now she's muttering worries about my mental health.
Last year, I suggested to Mike, he sets up a support group for the spouses of PBers who think
"Why is my partner so obsessed by political betting"
My low point was, explaining to my wife why I was staying up till 4am to watch the US Presidential Debate, as I had bet on what colour ties Barack Obama and Mitt Romney would be wearing.
Did you win the bet?
I think I won on Romney's tie, but not on Obama's.
Well how many Brits have burned alive anyone today?
I'm isolated from the elements of British culture are the people that whinge on and on about Muslims, that tells me I'm part of a fifth column and I should choose which side I'm on or talk about ragheads on here.
I'm a fan of free speech. When a few Imams/The MCB said freedom of speech should be restricted as not to insult religion a few people on here had near apoplexy saying that this shows Islam is incompatible with being British.
So how many of the same people said on here Christianity is incompatible with being British, when the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Bishop of Rome said Free Speech should be restricted as not to insult religion/religious people.
As someone who is knowledgeable about history and also a fan of gay rights, elements of Islam are homophobic, which is somehow unBritish.
Not so long ago, this country was chemically castrating homosexuals.
I mean is this not practically Islamic?
A Ukip-authorised Christian group has been condemned for distributing a newsletter that refers to gay people as depraved sodomites and argues that they could be converted from a state of vice.
One of the things I've always loved about this country, is the Keep Calm and Carry on mentality. We laughed at the Blackshirts via PG Wodehouse's Roderick Spode. When Londoners have been attacked, by the Germans, the IRA or Islamic Terrorists, the response is great "I've been blown up by a better class of bastard before"
For example if I were to post the joke why I would never be a suicide bomber, I'm sure it would enrage a few, whilst most would laugh.
As Robert notes "Yet, if they were to read some of the comments on here, I suspect they would feel as isolated from British culture as they do from Muslim culture"
But I won't let a few ruin it, CycleFree's comment above is the sort of comment that enhances the site and doesn't make me feel isolated.
Am I alone in thinking that the deployment of thermobaric weapons on every collection of ISIS members we can find would be an appropriate response to this latest horror?
Make the bastards burn.
I would just let the Jordanian Army have a go at them - just tell them - No mercy - you won't receive any, don't give any.
What will be interesting is to see whether Jordan meets out any 'cruel or unusual' punishment to the ISIS prisoners that they have. Whatever they do will be VERY public.
Stake them out in the desert for a few hours in the sun.
Then have this pilot's colleagues napalm them.
Put that on Facebook.
I doubt it. They might not get neatly broken necks though.
I just told my wife I wasn't sure if I could sleep tonight, because I'm so excited about the release of Ashcroft's Scottish marginals poll tomorrow morning.
She laughed at first when she thought I wasn't serious. Now she's muttering worries about my mental health.
I'd reassure you it isn't that crazy, but I don't think reassurance from other political wonks would assist much.
It does. This is the only place (anywhere?) I might actually receive a sympathetic hearing.
I'm not even allowed to talk about political betting at home. I doubt that my other half knows who Lord Ashcroft is.
As I lie awake tonight thinking of Scottish constituencies that I have never visited, wondering just how much money I might win or lose, he will be very soundly asleep. Lucky sod.
Have you ever had that awkward chat trying to explain spread betting to your other half, and you explain what your theoretical losses could be.
"Yes, I've bought the Tories on SPIN at £50 a seat, mid price is 340 seats, so my theoretical maximum loss is £17,000, but that's only if the Tories end up with zero seats"
"No, we should have very tough, decades long prison sentences, but nothing barbaric they can use as propaganda for their cause. We should also make sure we follow due process in punishing them, to show we are morally, politically and culturally superior to the Islamic world."
Unfortunately it's way to late to look for any moral high ground. After Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib the West can hardly claim to be morally superior to anyone
I just told my wife I wasn't sure if I could sleep tonight, because I'm so excited about the release of Ashcroft's Scottish marginals poll tomorrow morning.
She laughed at first when she thought I wasn't serious. Now she's muttering worries about my mental health.
I'd reassure you it isn't that crazy, but I don't think reassurance from other political wonks would assist much.
It does. This is the only place (anywhere?) I might actually receive a sympathetic hearing.
I'm not even allowed to talk about political betting at home. I doubt that my other half knows who Lord Ashcroft is.
As I lie awake tonight thinking of Scottish constituencies that I have never visited, wondering just how much money I might win or lose, he will be very soundly asleep. Lucky sod.
Have you ever had that awkward chat trying to explain spread betting to your other half, and you explain what your theoretical losses could be.
"Yes, I've bought the Tories on SPIN at £50 a seat, mid price is 340 seats, so my theoretical maximum loss is £17,000, but that's only if the Tories end up with zero seats"
"YOU F*CKING WHAT?"
I'm not that daft. What happens on Sporting Index stays on Sporting Index.
Well how many Brits have burned alive anyone today?
I'm isolated from the elements of British culture are the people that whinge on and on about Muslims, that tells me I'm part of a fifth column and I should choose which side I'm on or talk about ragheads on here.
I'm a fan of free speech. When a few Imams/The MCB said freedom of speech should be restricted as not to insult religion a few people on here had near apoplexy saying that this shows Islam is incompatible with being British.
So how many of the same people said on here Christianity is incompatible with being British, when the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Bishop of Rome said Free Speech should be restricted as not to insult religion/religious people.
The problem is TSE is that you freely move between fact and fiction. Who on here has said that you're part of a fifth column? Who has said you should talk about ragheads?
As for mentioning the Pope, he was widely criticised on here for being anti-free speech when he came out about his comments. The difference between Muslims and Christians is that most Muslims agree with his anti-free speech outlook whereas most Christians do not.
And you never seek to balance your views with acknowledgment of the other side. I have said on many occasions that a moderate interpretation of Islam could be compatible with democracy, and I have said on a number of occasions that Muslims like yourself are as British as the rest of us. But you never acknowledge that. You like to pretend that those of us that criticise the intolerant strands of Islam hate all Muslims, because it serves your agenda.
"No, we should have very tough, decades long prison sentences, but nothing barbaric they can use as propaganda for their cause. We should also make sure we follow due process in punishing them, to show we are morally, politically and culturally superior to the Islamic world."
Unfortunately it's way to late to look for any moral high ground. After Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib the West can hardly claim to be morally superior to anyone
In terms of Abu Ghraib, 11 soldiers were court martialled for their disgusting abuse there.
But I agree with you that Guantanamo Bay was a serious moral stain on the West. But we can recover from it when we take action against those that broke the law. Unfortunately, lack of action here has been the biggest failing of the current president, and I can't see it happening under the next one either.
"No, we should have very tough, decades long prison sentences, but nothing barbaric they can use as propaganda for their cause. We should also make sure we follow due process in punishing them, to show we are morally, politically and culturally superior to the Islamic world."
Unfortunately it's way to late to look for any moral high ground. After Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib the West can hardly claim to be morally superior to anyone
Moral superiority has nothing to do with it. ISIS are not people who are prepared to negotiate or come to a compromise with you. You either wipe them out or they will wipe you out. There is no halfway house.
The problem TSE has is that on the one hand he argues that Muslims shouldn't be grouped together as we should acknowledge the difference between the moderates and the nutcases, but on the other pretends that those of that criticise the nutcases are having a go at all Muslims. It's a completely inconsistent argument and a dishonest agenda. He wants to avoid blame from the bad Muslims (fair enough) but equally condemn those that regularly criticise the bad Muslims as bigots (not fair enough).
Evening all and has some kind soul ordered a couple of cases of Buckfast to be delivered to John Smith House around 10am tomorrow? Jim Murphy may be teetotal but once he reads Michael Ashcroft's Scottish seat polls he may turn to drink.
10 seat lead opened up today in ElectionForecast's projection of the GE result: Lab 289 vs Con 279 So far it simply isn't working for Dave & Co. as we move into the critical final 3 month period.
Equally it could mean that their model for working their projection is just crap. 1992 here we come!
For anyone who hasn't read brookmyre, can I recommend A Big Boy Did it and Ran Away. One of the best "thrillers" of the last 15 years. I've read it half a dozen times.
'New polling data points to bloodletting of big names from Scottish political life
Chief Secretary to the Treasury Danny Alexander, the former Scottish Secretary Michael Moore, and current Shadow Scottish Secretary Margaret Curran are expected to be among the high-profile politicians forecast to lose their Westminster seats by new polling data published today. The highly-anticipated analysis of Scottish constituencies by Lord Ashcroft, the former Conservative deputy chairman, will back up recent polls which point to a major rewrite of Scotland’s political map. Labour’s 56 year dominance of general elections north of the border is forecast to end with a historic shift to the nationalists in May. The new poll predicts the demise of the frontline careers of many of Scotland’s current big-hitting pro-union politicians.'
I just told my wife I wasn't sure if I could sleep tonight, because I'm so excited about the release of Ashcroft's Scottish marginals poll tomorrow morning.
She laughed at first when she thought I wasn't serious. Now she's muttering worries about my mental health.
Thrillers: I munch them like shreddies. About ten years ago I discovered American thriller writers and haven't looked back. I still think Turow's Presumed Innocent, Grisham's The Firm and Thomas Harris's first two, Red Dragon and Silence of the Lambs, are masterclasses in their genre.
I read the posher stuff too but I love a good thriller.
It's very quiet tonight. I think i'm going to go to bed and dream of Greek government bond yields...
Night night, sleep tight, bed bugs, etc, but before you go I'd be genuinely grateful (as an author) for an answer to my question: can you really gain something from a sixth reading of a book? Especially a thriller?! - when you must know the plot by heart?
What is left to be extracted? Sincere question.
Was wondering the same! It must have to be stonking writing.
It's very quiet tonight. I think i'm going to go to bed and dream of Greek government bond yields...
Night night, sleep tight, bed bugs, etc, but before you go I'd be genuinely grateful (as an author) for an answer to my question: can you really gain something from a sixth reading of a book? Especially a thriller?! - when you must know the plot by heart?
What is left to be extracted? Sincere question.
If you haven't read brookmyre, then go and read him. The action, suspense, etc. is inconsequential. The characters, plotting, and dialog are awesome.
'New polling data points to bloodletting of big names from Scottish political life
Chief Secretary to the Treasury Danny Alexander, the former Scottish Secretary Michael Moore, and current Shadow Scottish Secretary Margaret Curran are expected to be among the high-profile politicians forecast to lose their Westminster seats by new polling data published today. The highly-anticipated analysis of Scottish constituencies by Lord Ashcroft, the former Conservative deputy chairman, will back up recent polls which point to a major rewrite of Scotland’s political map. Labour’s 56 year dominance of general elections north of the border is forecast to end with a historic shift to the nationalists in May. The new poll predicts the demise of the frontline careers of many of Scotland’s current big-hitting pro-union politicians.'
I really hope this proves to be correct and SLAB gets reduced to a rump. One day the SNP will lose popularity and Scotland's Tories will be ready to offer an alternative in large parts of rural and surburban Scotland.
Thrillers: I munch them like shreddies. About ten years ago I discovered American thriller writers and haven't looked back. I still think Turow's Presumed Innocent, Grisham's The Firm and Thomas Harris's first two, Red Dragon and Silence of the Lambs, are masterclasses in their genre.
I read the posher stuff too but I love a good thriller.
I read the Exorcist last year, as prep for a new direction in my own writing. It's one of the finest American novels of the 20th century, actively scary and frightening on the page. True genius.
'New polling data points to bloodletting of big names from Scottish political life
Chief Secretary to the Treasury Danny Alexander, the former Scottish Secretary Michael Moore, and current Shadow Scottish Secretary Margaret Curran are expected to be among the high-profile politicians forecast to lose their Westminster seats by new polling data published today. The highly-anticipated analysis of Scottish constituencies by Lord Ashcroft, the former Conservative deputy chairman, will back up recent polls which point to a major rewrite of Scotland’s political map. Labour’s 56 year dominance of general elections north of the border is forecast to end with a historic shift to the nationalists in May. The new poll predicts the demise of the frontline careers of many of Scotland’s current big-hitting pro-union politicians.'
I really hope this proves to be correct and SLAB gets reduced to a rump. One day the SNP will lose popularity and Scotland's Tories will be ready to offer an alternative in large parts of rural and surburban Scotland.
That's if the Union hasn't dissolved in the interim.
Though I am much less afraid of this than others, it seems. I suspect Scotland would vote NO, and by the same fairly emphatic margin, if asked again at any time within the next decade. Scots are about to get an exceptionally good Devomax deal, compared with which indy would be a nightmare risk. Scots voters are not stupid.
The only way they might vote YES is if the UK pulls out of the EU, but that is also highly unlikely in the next decade.
Support for independence also waxes and wanes in line with the oil price. It'll be interesting to see the extent to which support for the SNP becomes detached from that for their major policy now oil's more than halved.
From an amazon review of The Ice Twins: "The fact that S.K. is, as yet an unrevealed pseudonymous author adds to the intrigue; I sense a woman writer but I am probably wrong."
'New polling data points to bloodletting of big names from Scottish political life
Chief Secretary to the Treasury Danny Alexander, the former Scottish Secretary Michael Moore, and current Shadow Scottish Secretary Margaret Curran are expected to be among the high-profile politicians forecast to lose their Westminster seats by new polling data published today. The highly-anticipated analysis of Scottish constituencies by Lord Ashcroft, the former Conservative deputy chairman, will back up recent polls which point to a major rewrite of Scotland’s political map. Labour’s 56 year dominance of general elections north of the border is forecast to end with a historic shift to the nationalists in May. The new poll predicts the demise of the frontline careers of many of Scotland’s current big-hitting pro-union politicians.'
I really hope this proves to be correct and SLAB gets reduced to a rump. One day the SNP will lose popularity and Scotland's Tories will be ready to offer an alternative in large parts of rural and surburban Scotland.
That's if the Union hasn't dissolved in the interim.
Though I am much less afraid of this than others, it seems. I suspect Scotland would vote NO, and by the same fairly emphatic margin, if asked again at any time within the next decade. Scots are about to get an exceptionally good Devomax deal, compared with which indy would be a nightmare risk. Scots voters are not stupid.
The only way they might vote YES is if the UK pulls out of the EU, but that is also highly unlikely in the next decade.
The other way that a Yes vote may go would be on the issue, following the SNP wagging the Labour dog in an unstable coalition. If that proved sufficiently abusive of English voters then the Union could split up even more acrimoniously.
I quite like the reaction of Sean Fear and our own Southam Observer: point out they're sad wankers that couldn't get laid and have a death fetish.
We might think having a death fetish to be a criticism. Presumably they think this is something wonderful.
But, frankly, worrying about what they think is a fool's errand. What we need to be is utterly ruthless in and focused on eliminating IS and similar offshoots from the face of this earth.
The radical islamists do have a sort ofdeath fetish and have said so on several occasions ( I think off the top of my head one of the 7/7 bombers said something along those lines for example).
Agree that we have to respond robustly and that includes defending free speech and printing bloody cartoons if we so choose.
The beeb admits it is scared of lampooning Islam so self censors - things like this need to change and certain beliefs and behaviors have to be challenged.
Imagine a christian referring to Muslims as second class citizens - then remind yourself about how Mehdi Hasan sees us.
I quite like the reaction of Sean Fear and our own Southam Observer: point out they're sad wankers that couldn't get laid and have a death fetish.
We might think having a death fetish to be a criticism. Presumably they think this is something wonderful.
But, frankly, worrying about what they think is a fool's errand. What we need to be is utterly ruthless in and focused on eliminating IS and similar offshoots from the face of this earth.
The radical islamists do have a sort ofdeath fetish and have said so on several occasions ( I think off the top of my head one of the 7/7 bombers said something along those lines for example).
Agree that we have to respond robustly and that includes defending free speech and printing bloody cartoons if we so choose.
The beeb admits it is scared of lampooning Islam so self censors - things like this need to change and certain beliefs and behaviors have to be challenged.
Imagine a christian referring to Muslims as second class citizens - then remind yourself about how Mehdi Hasan sees us.
Comments downthread on the unfortunate Jordanian pilot.
The Jordanians were prepared to deal but had severe doubts about whether their man was even alive. As late as the end of last week Jordanian officials trying to sort things in Turkey were reporting that confirmation was lacking.
It didn't, however, stop the Jordanians from warning that if the pilot was killed they'd start moving forward executions of ISIS linked jihadis, a threat that was passed on fairly recently.
In reality therefore possible statements emerging from Amman that this guy was killed many days, or possibly weeks ago are either public fronting or very recent information. Money is on the former. They didn't really know for sure, certainly upto a couple of days ago at least.
A number of weeks ago I reported on here that there was an attempt to spring him from captivity but the raid barely got on the floor before they were back in the air again.
It should be noted that the burning alive job is new to us but an order for this kind of execution was issued on the 20th January buy ISIS to their fighters. Whether this was specific to this pilot or a more general instruction we will probably not have too long to wait.
I just told my wife I wasn't sure if I could sleep tonight, because I'm so excited about the release of Ashcroft's Scottish marginals poll tomorrow morning.
She laughed at first when she thought I wasn't serious. Now she's muttering worries about my mental health.
I'd reassure you it isn't that crazy, but I don't think reassurance from other political wonks would assist much.
It does. This is the only place (anywhere?) I might actually receive a sympathetic hearing.
I'm not even allowed to talk about political betting at home. I doubt that my other half knows who Lord Ashcroft is.
As I lie awake tonight thinking of Scottish constituencies that I have never visited, wondering just how much money I might win or lose, he will be very soundly asleep. Lucky sod.
Have you ever had that awkward chat trying to explain spread betting to your other half, and you explain what your theoretical losses could be.
"Yes, I've bought the Tories on SPIN at £50 a seat, mid price is 340 seats, so my theoretical maximum loss is £17,000, but that's only if the Tories end up with zero seats"
Comments
On the question of the Jordanian response, my first instinct - which I suspect was shared by many - was to say 'good for them'. But a moment's thought shows that that sort of reaction goes against everything we, as democratic nations, are supposed to be fighting for. It may bring some short term satisfaction but in the end I don't believe it will do anything but cause more problems.
Is it just YouGov tonight?
Prime Minister David Cameron has issued a statement on the murder of Lieutenant Moaz al-Kassasbeh.
"I condemn this sickening murder by ISIL’s barbaric terrorists. I pay tribute to the dedication and bravery of Lieutenant Moaz al-Kassasbeh, who as a member of the Jordanian Armed Forces serving in the anti-ISIL Coalition, paid with his life while protecting his country and us all. My thoughts and prayers are with his family tonight at this tragic time."
"These terrorists’ brutal behaviour will only strengthen our resolve. We stand in solidarity with our Jordanian friends and we will continue to work with them and our other Coalition partners to defeat ISIL. Together we are making progress. In the last week, ISIL has been thrown out of Kobane. The Iraqi Armed Forces, with Coalition support, are steadily re-taking territory in Northern Iraq, freeing many thousands from ISIL’s utter cruelty. We will not stop until these evil extremists and their poisonous ideology are defeated."
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-statement-on-the-murder-of-lieutenant-moaz-al-kassasbeh
' Whether we agree with that decision, they surely need to go through with it now. Presumably they want to avoid any future bargaining horror situations.'
They need to do it to pacify their own population.
Make the bastards burn.
But, frankly, worrying about what they think is a fool's errand. What we need to be is utterly ruthless in and focused on eliminating IS and similar offshoots from the face of this earth.
She laughed at first when she thought I wasn't serious. Now she's muttering worries about my mental health.
1 conference votes to accept, reject or modify policy that is put in front of it
2 the manifesto working group select which bits of that policy end up in the manifesto for the next General Election - but along the way what they pick is subject to wide consultation and conference debates
3 any individual candidate is expected to know what is in the manifesto (and in the policies which didn't make it) if not in complete detail, at least enough to get the key points right; but is free to disagree with individual policy points - as long as they make it clear what is party policy and what is their own opinion. Obviously if you disagreed with the majority of policy, it would be odd. But if you did you probably wouldn't be standing as a candidate.. or, as this is the Lib Dems, quite possibly you would anyway.
If you are a Lib Dem, then policy is pretty easy to work out even if you are not 100% acquainted with the detail because it is based on that simple principle of having the freedom to do what you want up to the point of hurting others. So e.g. we are going to be quite green, because damaging the planet is going to make life difficult for an awful lot of people We are pro-education because you can't really be free if you aren't educated, and in favour of helping the poorest because you can't be free if you are in poverty and believe in progressive taxation for similar reasons plus there is an argument about the superrich hurting others.. Etc etc. Where we get disagreements internally in the party it's usually things like pornography, because we disagree about where to draw the line between ensuring freedom and harm to others. Ditto Trident.
Especially if anything like the boss of Boots, who is a logjam in the path of the NHS!
What will be interesting is to see whether Jordan meets out any 'cruel or unusual' punishment to the ISIS prisoners that they have. Whatever they do will be VERY public.
David Cameron refused to do a selfie-interview because, a CCHQ source says, “it is twattish”.
Haha. Love CCHQ sometimes
I don't see anything wrong, per se, with going abroad to try to overthrow Assad he's a c**t and has it coming. After all, no-one accused George Orwell of being a terrorist when he came back from Catalonia. If we need to recognise the IS so we can declare war on it, lets do that. If we are going to fight wars, lets do it properly.
I suspect the Jordanians will be marching all terrorists on death row to the gallows (it may take some time, apparently they only have one prison where they can carry out executions) and working out how they can take military action killing as many as possible. Good for them. Rather than the platitudes spoken tonight, Obama should be offering them, say, B52s over ar-Raqqa.
Delenda est res publica islamica
What are these guys on?
Then have this pilot's colleagues napalm them.
Put that on Facebook.
As I lie awake tonight thinking of Scottish constituencies that I have never visited, wondering just how much money I might win or lose, he will be very soundly asleep. Lucky sod.
Well how many Brits have burned alive anyone today?
I'm isolated from the elements of British culture are the people that whinge on and on about Muslims, that tells me I'm part of a fifth column and I should choose which side I'm on or talk about ragheads on here.
I'm a fan of free speech. When a few Imams/The MCB said freedom of speech should be restricted as not to insult religion a few people on here had near apoplexy saying that this shows Islam is incompatible with being British.
So how many of the same people said on here Christianity is incompatible with being British, when the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Bishop of Rome said Free Speech should be restricted as not to insult religion/religious people.
As someone who is knowledgeable about history and also a fan of gay rights, elements of Islam are homophobic, which is somehow unBritish.
Not so long ago, this country was chemically castrating homosexuals.
I mean is this not practically Islamic?
A Ukip-authorised Christian group has been condemned for distributing a newsletter that refers to gay people as depraved sodomites and argues that they could be converted from a state of vice.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/feb/03/christian-soldiers-ukip-gay-depravity
One of the things I've always loved about this country, is the Keep Calm and Carry on mentality. We laughed at the Blackshirts via PG Wodehouse's Roderick Spode. When Londoners have been attacked, by the Germans, the IRA or Islamic Terrorists, the response is great "I've been blown up by a better class of bastard before"
For example if I were to post the joke why I would never be a suicide bomber, I'm sure it would enrage a few, whilst most would laugh.
As Robert notes "Yet, if they were to read some of the comments on here, I suspect they would feel as isolated from British culture as they do from Muslim culture"
But I won't let a few ruin it, CycleFree's comment above is the sort of comment that enhances the site and doesn't make me feel isolated.
However, socially we should mock them as sad, sexually inept losers with inferiority complexes who are afraid of talking to women and couldn't get laid. They crave mythic status above everything else and we should ruthlessly take that from them. The lonely wankers.
"Why is my partner so obsessed by political betting"
My low point was, explaining to my wife why I was staying up till 4am to watch the US Presidential Debate, as I had bet on what colour ties Barack Obama and Mitt Romney would be wearing.
The buzzword bingo was a winner too.
Agree with the rest though
http://news.yahoo.com/seattle-muslims-demand-teacher-canned-showing-muhammad-cartoons-130143081.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory&soc_trk=tw
"Yes, I've bought the Tories on SPIN at £50 a seat, mid price is 340 seats, so my theoretical maximum loss is £17,000, but that's only if the Tories end up with zero seats"
"YOU F*CKING WHAT?"
Sounds fairly normal then.
"No, we should have very tough, decades long prison sentences, but nothing barbaric they can use as propaganda for their cause. We should also make sure we follow due process in punishing them, to show we are morally, politically and culturally superior to the Islamic world."
Unfortunately it's way to late to look for any moral high ground. After Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib the West can hardly claim to be morally superior to anyone
As for mentioning the Pope, he was widely criticised on here for being anti-free speech when he came out about his comments. The difference between Muslims and Christians is that most Muslims agree with his anti-free speech outlook whereas most Christians do not.
And you never seek to balance your views with acknowledgment of the other side. I have said on many occasions that a moderate interpretation of Islam could be compatible with democracy, and I have said on a number of occasions that Muslims like yourself are as British as the rest of us. But you never acknowledge that. You like to pretend that those of us that criticise the intolerant strands of Islam hate all Muslims, because it serves your agenda.
Just ordered a copy of The Ice Twins, but who the hell is S.K.Tremayne? Can't find any information about him/her online.
But I agree with you that Guantanamo Bay was a serious moral stain on the West. But we can recover from it when we take action against those that broke the law. Unfortunately, lack of action here has been the biggest failing of the current president, and I can't see it happening under the next one either.
The problem TSE has is that on the one hand he argues that Muslims shouldn't be grouped together as we should acknowledge the difference between the moderates and the nutcases, but on the other pretends that those of that criticise the nutcases are having a go at all Muslims. It's a completely inconsistent argument and a dishonest agenda. He wants to avoid blame from the bad Muslims (fair enough) but equally condemn those that regularly criticise the bad Muslims as bigots (not fair enough).
'New polling data points to bloodletting of big names from Scottish political life
Chief Secretary to the Treasury Danny Alexander, the former Scottish Secretary Michael Moore, and current Shadow Scottish Secretary Margaret Curran are expected to be among the high-profile politicians forecast to lose their Westminster seats by new polling data published today. The highly-anticipated analysis of Scottish constituencies by Lord Ashcroft, the former Conservative deputy chairman, will back up recent polls which point to a major rewrite of Scotland’s political map. Labour’s 56 year dominance of general elections north of the border is forecast to end with a historic shift to the nationalists in May. The new poll predicts the demise of the frontline careers of many of Scotland’s current big-hitting pro-union politicians.'
http://tinyurl.com/pzzgxtc
Thrillers: I munch them like shreddies. About ten years ago I discovered American thriller writers and haven't looked back. I still think Turow's Presumed Innocent, Grisham's The Firm and Thomas Harris's first two, Red Dragon and Silence of the Lambs, are masterclasses in their genre.
I read the posher stuff too but I love a good thriller.
"The fact that S.K. is, as yet an unrevealed pseudonymous author adds to the intrigue; I sense a woman writer but I am probably wrong."
Agree that we have to respond robustly and that includes defending free speech and printing bloody cartoons if we so choose.
The beeb admits it is scared of lampooning Islam so self censors - things like this need to change and certain beliefs and behaviors have to be challenged.
Imagine a christian referring to Muslims as second class citizens - then remind yourself about how Mehdi Hasan sees us.
http://hurryupharry.org/2012/08/07/yet-more-ducking-and-diving-from-mehdi-hasan/
The Jordanians were prepared to deal but had severe doubts about whether their man was even alive. As late as the end of last week Jordanian officials trying to sort things in Turkey were reporting that confirmation was lacking.
It didn't, however, stop the Jordanians from warning that if the pilot was killed they'd start moving forward executions of ISIS linked jihadis, a threat that was passed on fairly recently.
In reality therefore possible statements emerging from Amman that this guy was killed many days, or possibly weeks ago are either public fronting or very recent information. Money is on the former. They didn't really know for sure, certainly upto a couple of days ago at least.
A number of weeks ago I reported on here that there was an attempt to spring him from captivity but the raid barely got on the floor before they were back in the air again.
It should be noted that the burning alive job is new to us but an order for this kind of execution was issued on the 20th January buy ISIS to their fighters. Whether this was specific to this pilot or a more general instruction we will probably not have too long to wait.
Red on Ed part 6543
PULLINGAWAYINJANUARYLOLAMENDUS!
Doing up my spreadsheet and... out of pocket on that one.
CON 33 (n/c)
LAB 33 (-2)
LD 7 (nc)
UKIP 14 (nc)
Grn 7 (+1)
Yahahahaha. Digby Jones.
However recent polls suggested a move back to Lab - if tonight had been a Lab lead of 2% or 3% then that move would have started to look clear cut.
A tie tonight suggests true lead may well still be in the region of 1%.