Mr Crosby, (good article, by the way) that sounds right. Thorpe was also in possession of a number of telegrams (remember them) from Liberal parties up and down the country (one from me, as an Agent and my candidate) ...... there had been frantic phone calls all over the place ..... pointing out that whoever had won the election, Heath had lost it!
I think there's also a report somewhere that Thorpe was offered the (don't laugh, folks) the post of Home Secretary.
IMHO that was Clegg's big mistake in 2010; Deputy PM is up there with VPOTUS .... sounds good but generally speaking that's been a dead end ..... whereas if Clegg had insisted on one of the Great Offices he'd have had a "real" job.
If we have to have a Coalition after May 7th no doubt lessons will have been learned.
Lesson number one: Never go into a coalition. Lesson number two: See lesson number one.
It's pathetic to think that the LD problem was that Nick Clegg became deputy PM instead of a Cabinet Secretary. Voters don't care, even if Clegg became Archbishop, the LD would still have been destroyed.
You may not like him - I find him so inscrutable I suspect he is secretly chinese - but Salmond is the only politician of the last 40 years of the same stature as Thatcher and Blair. Just look at his achievements: he got the FM ship, he got the referendum, he got that Yougov and The Vow, he left an SNP to be the hammer of the Labour Scots. OK he lost the referendum - we noticed - though why the dimmer PB tories are inclined to award themselves campaign medals for his defeat is obscure; but even in losing he did something epochal in securing a democratic mandate for the Act of Union after 307 years. And to the connoisseur of political betting, what he did to the polls in 2011 was surely about as interesting as it gets.
Perhaps you would like to put the case that Clegg is the more towering figure.
On the BBC and indyref, what impressed me more than anything else was the way in which they shut down all political discussion on the Scottish news about 2-3 years before indyref, without giving any explanation as to why that area alone should be so treated. It came to the point where the only Scttish pol stories to be allowed comments were those on the "national" (i.e. UK) news.
It wasn't particularly bad-mannered either - rather less indelicate than PB and far more decorous than, say, the Scotsman or Guido.
No wonder the BBC chap is expecting people to feel paranoid.
At one time leading Scottish players played for Rangers, Celtic, Man U, Leeds, Liverpool, Arsenal, and even Spurs. But I am concerned that they may be playing for other sides.
James Matthews @jamesmatthewsky · 13m13 minutes ago England fans chanting: 'You're just a small town in England'. Scotland fans: 'Jimmy Savile, he's one of your own'
Don't know if anyone has posted this yet, but according to UKPR's archive this is the lowest Lib Dem score since ICM gave the alliance 5% on 23rd June 1990. Put another way, the Liberal Democrats have never polled this low since the party was founded.
James Matthews @jamesmatthewsky · 13m13 minutes ago England fans chanting: 'You're just a small town in England'. Scotland fans: 'Jimmy Savile, he's one of your own'
Mr Crosby, (good article, by the way) that sounds right. Thorpe was also in possession of a number of telegrams (remember them) from Liberal parties up and down the country (one from me, as an Agent and my candidate) ...... there had been frantic phone calls all over the place ..... pointing out that whoever had won the election, Heath had lost it!
I think there's also a report somewhere that Thorpe was offered the (don't laugh, folks) the post of Home Secretary.
IMHO that was Clegg's big mistake in 2010; Deputy PM is up there with VPOTUS .... sounds good but generally speaking that's been a dead end ..... whereas if Clegg had insisted on one of the Great Offices he'd have had a "real" job.
If we have to have a Coalition after May 7th no doubt lessons will have been learned.
Lesson number one: Never go into a coalition. Lesson number two: See lesson number one.
So if no party has an overall majority what happens? Go back to the electorate and tell them to try again. IMHO that would be even more likely to result in NOM.
James Matthews @jamesmatthewsky · 13m13 minutes ago England fans chanting: 'You're just a small town in England'. Scotland fans: 'Jimmy Savile, he's one of your own'
James Matthews @jamesmatthewsky · 13m13 minutes ago England fans chanting: 'You're just a small town in England'. Scotland fans: 'Jimmy Savile, he's one of your own'
But Jimmy's mate Cardinal Keith O'Brien ..ll
Justify your remark.
In any case, he was Irish.
Is he the one forced to retire due to groping and sexually assaulting young priests that he was in a position of power over?
“My friendship with Jimmy Savile developed over many years since I was assistant priest in St Patrick’s Parish, Kilsyth, along with the parish priest, the then Fr Denis O’Connell,” Cardinal O’Brien said. ” We were always trying to fundraise, not only for the parish, but for a variety of local and national charities and Father Denis had got to know Jimmy quite simply because of Jimmy’s mother, ‘The Duchess.’ It was Jimmy’s fond mother who attributed the healing of Jimmy when an infant to her prayers to the Venerable Margaret Sinclair, a young Scottish nun.
Mr Crosby, (good article, by the way) that sounds right. Thorpe was also in possession of a number of telegrams (remember them) from Liberal parties up and down the country (one from me, as an Agent and my candidate) ...... there had been frantic phone calls all over the place ..... pointing out that whoever had won the election, Heath had lost it!
I think there's also a report somewhere that Thorpe was offered the (don't laugh, folks) the post of Home Secretary.
IMHO that was Clegg's big mistake in 2010; Deputy PM is up there with VPOTUS .... sounds good but generally speaking that's been a dead end ..... whereas if Clegg had insisted on one of the Great Offices he'd have had a "real" job.
If we have to have a Coalition after May 7th no doubt lessons will have been learned.
Lesson number one: Never go into a coalition. Lesson number two: See lesson number one.
So if no party has an overall majority what happens? Go back to the electorate and tell them to try again. IMHO that would be even more likely to result in NOM.
Minority government until the next election, or supply and confidence. See 1970's to apply a reasonable non-catastrophic solution for either of the 3 major parties of the day.
Instead this coalition like all other coalitions after universal suffrage was an exercise in destroying the parties involved, especially the smaller ones. The LD MP's got their ministerial limo's and LD voters kissed them goodbye, and the Tory party base split towards UKIP.
That is what history will write, not "Clegg not getting the Home Office resulted in LD voters leaving".
James Matthews @jamesmatthewsky · 13m13 minutes ago England fans chanting: 'You're just a small town in England'. Scotland fans: 'Jimmy Savile, he's one of your own'
But Jimmy's mate Cardinal Keith O'Brien ..ll
Justify your remark.
In any case, he was Irish.
Is he the one forced to retire due to groping and sexually assaulting young priests that he was in a position of power over?
Mr Crosby, (good article, by the way) that sounds right. Thorpe was also in possession of a number of telegrams (remember them) from Liberal parties up and down the country (one from me, as an Agent and my candidate) ...... there had been frantic phone calls all over the place ..... pointing out that whoever had won the election, Heath had lost it!
I think there's also a report somewhere that Thorpe was offered the (don't laugh, folks) the post of Home Secretary.
IMHO that was Clegg's big mistake in 2010; Deputy PM is up there with VPOTUS .... sounds good but generally speaking that's been a dead end ..... whereas if Clegg had insisted on one of the Great Offices he'd have had a "real" job.
If we have to have a Coalition after May 7th no doubt lessons will have been learned.
Lesson number one: Never go into a coalition. Lesson number two: See lesson number one.
So if no party has an overall majority what happens? Go back to the electorate and tell them to try again. IMHO that would be even more likely to result in NOM.
Minority government until the next election, or supply and confidence. See 1970's to apply a reasonable non-catastrophic solution for either of the 3 major parties of the day.
Instead this coalition like all other coalitions after universal suffrage was an exercise in destroying the parties involved, especially the smaller ones. The LD MP's got their ministerial limo's and LD voters kissed them goodbye, and the Tory party base split towards UKIP.
That is what history will write, not "Clegg not getting the Home Office resulted in LD voters leaving".
Really don't think that C&S was a viable alternative in 2010.
James Matthews @jamesmatthewsky · 13m13 minutes ago England fans chanting: 'You're just a small town in England'. Scotland fans: 'Jimmy Savile, he's one of your own'
But Jimmy's mate Cardinal Keith O'Brien ..ll
Justify your remark.
In any case, he was Irish.
Is he the one forced to retire due to groping and sexually assaulting young priests that he was in a position of power over?
More global warming - today is the coldest November day in the US since 1976
In Europe it's quite a warm period. Seems that in the years that Europe freezes, America is quite warm. While when America freezes, Europe gets quite warm. Must be the jet stream.
A few posters, only yesterday, were chiding me for the 'wishful thinking' of my Tory vote forecasts. I hope they are feeling suitably chaste today.
Yes, Nick Palmer, I'm thinking of you.
Moi? I haven't chided you for years, if ever.
You tried a little rib yesterday in response to one of my posts, on the thread where Labour had a 1% Ashcroft lead: 'I recall you saying polling would become significant in November'
James Matthews @jamesmatthewsky · 13m13 minutes ago England fans chanting: 'You're just a small town in England'. Scotland fans: 'Jimmy Savile, he's one of your own'
But Jimmy's mate Cardinal Keith O'Brien ..ll
Justify your remark.
In any case, he was Irish.
Is he the one forced to retire due to groping and sexually assaulting young priests that he was in a position of power over?
No charges brought - why not ?
Having just read the wiki entry it's difficult, if taken at face value, to see why not.
I just saw the Myleene Klass pwnage of Ed for the first time. Wow.
I'm not a fan of Ed but from the clip on ITV it looked like she ranted at him and then she interrupted and ranted some more when he tried to reply. Perhaps he could have been a bit more assertive but then he might have been accused of bullying her.
More global warming - today is the coldest November day in the US since 1976
In Europe it's quite a warm period. Seems that in the years that Europe freezes, America is quite warm. While when America freezes, Europe gets quite warm. Must be the jet stream.
Buffalo NY got 4 feet of snow.
Every state including Hawaii reported a freezing temperature overnight.
Speedy said: History was a perfect guide to what happens when a liberal party goes into a coalition government, in 2010 the LD had a similar choice and they shot themselves like the last 3 times.
And my reply is:
Oh come on. Look back to 2010. What was the alternative? Never mind for the LD's, for the country.
Sense rather than total partisanship, make a refreshing change.
Mr Crosby, (good article, by the way) that sounds right. Thorpe was also in possession of a number of telegrams (remember them) from Liberal parties up and down the country (one from me, as an Agent and my candidate) ...... there had been frantic phone calls all over the place ..... pointing out that whoever had won the election, Heath had lost it!
I think there's also a report somewhere that Thorpe was offered the (don't laugh, folks) the post of Home Secretary.
IMHO that was Clegg's big mistake in 2010; Deputy PM is up there with VPOTUS .... sounds good but generally speaking that's been a dead end ..... whereas if Clegg had insisted on one of the Great Offices he'd have had a "real" job.
If we have to have a Coalition after May 7th no doubt lessons will have been learned.
Lesson number one: Never go into a coalition. Lesson number two: See lesson number one.
So if no party has an overall majority what happens? Go back to the electorate and tell them to try again. IMHO that would be even more likely to result in NOM.
Minority government until the next election, or supply and confidence. See 1970's to apply a reasonable non-catastrophic solution for either of the 3 major parties of the day.
Instead this coalition like all other coalitions after universal suffrage was an exercise in destroying the parties involved, especially the smaller ones. The LD MP's got their ministerial limo's and LD voters kissed them goodbye, and the Tory party base split towards UKIP.
That is what history will write, not "Clegg not getting the Home Office resulted in LD voters leaving".
Really don't think that C&S was a viable alternative in 2010.
But, of course, we'll never know!
Well we know that going into a coalition was catastrophic for the Liberals and bad for the Tories. I had the strong opinion in May 2010 that going into a coalition was a mistake, that it will suffocate it's policies and autonomy and be perceived to be in power not to implement it's policies but for the ministerial salary and vanity, being in power for power's sake and nothing else. I left the LD in that summer after I was proven right, never to return.
I feel that some ex-Tories felt the same about their ex-party and have gone to UKIP for the same reasons.
More global warming - today is the coldest November day in the US since 1976
In Europe it's quite a warm period. Seems that in the years that Europe freezes, America is quite warm. While when America freezes, Europe gets quite warm. Must be the jet stream.
Buffalo NY got 4 feet of snow.
Every state including Hawaii reported a freezing temperature overnight.
In 2009, 2010 and 2011 Britain had very harsh winters. So far it seems very mild, the cold air must be stuck over North America.
“My friendship with Jimmy Savile developed over many years since I was assistant priest in St Patrick’s Parish, Kilsyth, along with the parish priest, the then Fr Denis O’Connell,” Cardinal O’Brien said. ” We were always trying to fundraise, not only for the parish, but for a variety of local and national charities and Father Denis had got to know Jimmy quite simply because of Jimmy’s mother, ‘The Duchess.’ It was Jimmy’s fond mother who attributed the healing of Jimmy when an infant to her prayers to the Venerable Margaret Sinclair, a young Scottish nun.
So, Jimmy Savile did charitable work and the clergy appreciated this.
“My friendship with Jimmy Savile developed over many years since I was assistant priest in St Patrick’s Parish, Kilsyth, along with the parish priest, the then Fr Denis O’Connell,” Cardinal O’Brien said. ” We were always trying to fundraise, not only for the parish, but for a variety of local and national charities and Father Denis had got to know Jimmy quite simply because of Jimmy’s mother, ‘The Duchess.’ It was Jimmy’s fond mother who attributed the healing of Jimmy when an infant to her prayers to the Venerable Margaret Sinclair, a young Scottish nun.
So, Jimmy Savile did charitable work and the clergy appreciated this.
Big f***ing deal.
What's your opinion on his resignation? Does that count as a big f deal?
More global warming - today is the coldest November day in the US since 1976
In Europe it's quite a warm period. Seems that in the years that Europe freezes, America is quite warm. While when America freezes, Europe gets quite warm. Must be the jet stream.
More global warming - today is the coldest November day in the US since 1976
In Europe it's quite a warm period. Seems that in the years that Europe freezes, America is quite warm. While when America freezes, Europe gets quite warm. Must be the jet stream.
It was minus 4 in Dallas this morning...
The cold weather is just God's way of telling us to burn more Catholics at the stake.
James Matthews @jamesmatthewsky · 13m13 minutes ago England fans chanting: 'You're just a small town in England'. Scotland fans: 'Jimmy Savile, he's one of your own'
But Jimmy's mate Cardinal Keith O'Brien ..ll
Justify your remark.
In any case, he was Irish.
Is he the one forced to retire due to groping and sexually assaulting young priests that he was in a position of power over?
No charges brought - why not ?
Having just read the wiki entry it's difficult, if taken at face value, to see why not.
Again, justify your remark.
Perhaps you wish to take out a private prosecution?
Well we know that going into a coalition was catastrophic for the Liberals and bad for the Tories. I had the strong opinion in May 2010 that going into a coalition was a mistake, that it will suffocate it's policies and autonomy and be perceived to be in power not to implement it's policies but for the ministerial salary and vanity, being in power for power's sake and nothing else. I left the LD in that summer after I was proven right, never to return.
I feel that some ex-Tories felt the same about their ex-party and have gone to UKIP for the same reasons.
So why were you a member of a minority party that sold itself as being in the centre, supported PR and (ipso facto) coalition government, and where Clegg had clearly said that he would be prepared to enter into coalition talks with whichever of Lab and Con did best in the GE? the LibDems whole raison d'etre has been to do well enough to take part in a coalition government! Were all pre-2010 members as self-delusional as you?
I don't agree that the coalition was bad for the Tories, a much more traditional small C conservative government would have p1ssed off a lot of liberal Tory voters like me. My view at the time (apart from sh1tting myself that Gordon would squeak back in in some way) was that the Coalition was preferable to a majority Conservative government.
What we do need to learn in British politics is how to conduct coalitions. Do the FDP go in for such self-indulgent angst every time they agree to form a coalition with the SDP or CDP?
I just saw the Myleene Klass pwnage of Ed for the first time. Wow.
I'm not a fan of Ed but from the clip on ITV it looked like she ranted at him and then she interrupted and ranted some more when he tried to reply. Perhaps he could have been a bit more assertive but then he might have been accused of bullying her.
I was embarrassed - for Ed. Seriously, he looked like a (grey) schoolboy debater who couldn't negotiate his way out of a paper bag. He was getting savaged. There's just something about him: his posture, his eyes (alternately vacant or transfixed), the way he listens to others' points, the frowning, the blinking, the waffly unnatural way in which he responds to them, the painful way he tries to introduce humour into it, the overly earnest way in which he tries to get his points to land home - with contorted finger pointing. The way he pauses after he thinks he's made a good point, and gets no reaction. The way he misjudges when to interrupt, and how.. the way he gets interrupted and misjudges how to handle it..
If he can't handle a barracking by an ex-member of Hear'say, then there has to be serious questions opening up again about his leadership.
I think he's probably safe until Christmas, but I can see another attempt at a putsch again in January. I don't know if that will succeed or not. Probably not, but it will be tried.
OGH Why? If anything it shows Scotland needs England more than the other way around (eg Team GB at the Olympics), if Scotland wins matches it gives them more confidence to stand alone
Mr Crosby, (good article, by the way) that sounds right. Thorpe was also in possession of a number of telegrams (remember them) from Liberal parties up and down the country (one from me, as an Agent and my candidate) ...... there had been frantic phone calls all over the place ..... pointing out that whoever had won the election, Heath had lost it!
I think there's also a report somewhere that Thorpe was offered the (don't laugh, folks) the post of Home Secretary.
IMHO that was Clegg's big mistake in 2010; Deputy PM is up there with VPOTUS .... sounds good but generally speaking that's been a dead end ..... whereas if Clegg had insisted on one of the Great Offices he'd have had a "real" job.
If we have to have a Coalition after May 7th no doubt lessons will have been learned.
Lesson number one: Never go into a coalition. Lesson number two: See lesson number one.
It's pathetic to think that the LD problem was that Nick Clegg became deputy PM instead of a Cabinet Secretary. Voters don't care, even if Clegg became Archbishop, the LD would still have been destroyed.
If we have a situation - which is not inconceivable - within the next 10 years of:
Conservatives 275 Labour 225 UKIP 100 SNP 20 LibDems 20 Others 10
Then you'll have coalitions whether you like it or not.
I suspect political parties which refused to go into coalitions for reasons of idealogical purity, and therefore caused additional elections, would be treated harshly by the electorate.
That I have forced you to go all the way back before universal suffrage to find excuses proves my argument quite well. And in case you haven't heard there was a Liberal revival culminated in 1974, after which it was a 2.5 party system.
Well firstly your examples also begin before universal suffrage.
Secondly you caveated out the Irish coalitions (i.e. the only other ones the Liberals took part in).
Thirdly you haven't even nearly shown causation, particularly for the first Labour ministry.
If you were aware of the party organisation problems caused by the splits that existed from 1916 onwards (but especially in the 1924 election) then you've unjustifiably overlooked them.
That it was termed a 2.5 system rather than a 3 party system illustrates that it wasn't a 3 major party system (also culminated).
Also you think that the Liberal party of the 1960s was one seat away from being a major party? Really?
James Matthews @jamesmatthewsky · 13m13 minutes ago England fans chanting: 'You're just a small town in England'. Scotland fans: 'Jimmy Savile, he's one of your own'
Mr Crosby, (good article, by the way) that sounds right. Thorpe was also in possession of a number of telegrams (remember them) from Liberal parties up and down the country (one from me, as an Agent and my candidate) ...... there had been frantic phone calls all over the place ..... pointing out that whoever had won the election, Heath had lost it!
I think there's also a report somewhere that Thorpe was offered the (don't laugh, folks) the post of Home Secretary.
IMHO that was Clegg's big mistake in 2010; Deputy PM is up there with VPOTUS .... sounds good but generally speaking that's been a dead end ..... whereas if Clegg had insisted on one of the Great Offices he'd have had a "real" job.
If we have to have a Coalition after May 7th no doubt lessons will have been learned.
Lesson number one: Never go into a coalition. Lesson number two: See lesson number one.
It's pathetic to think that the LD problem was that Nick Clegg became deputy PM instead of a Cabinet Secretary. Voters don't care, even if Clegg became Archbishop, the LD would still have been destroyed.
If we have a situation - which is not inconceivable - within the next 10 years of:
Conservatives 275 Labour 225 UKIP 100 SNP 20 LibDems 20 Others 10
Then you'll have coalitions whether you like it or not.
I suspect political parties which refused to go into coalitions for reasons of idealogical purity, and therefore caused additional elections, would be treated harshly by the electorate.
So far the only parties that have been treated harshly by the electorate are those who have entered coalitions.
Speedy It is the wettest autumn on record and the temperature is barely pushing 10 degrees C in the UK, in Miami it is about 29C, there is a world of difference there from the -6C in Chicago, NY, Seattle and DC are about the same temperature as here
Well we know that going into a coalition was catastrophic for the Liberals and bad for the Tories. I had the strong opinion in May 2010 that going into a coalition was a mistake, that it will suffocate it's policies and autonomy and be perceived to be in power not to implement it's policies but for the ministerial salary and vanity, being in power for power's sake and nothing else. I left the LD in that summer after I was proven right, never to return.
I feel that some ex-Tories felt the same about their ex-party and have gone to UKIP for the same reasons.
So why were you a member of a minority party that sold itself as being in the centre, supported PR and (ipso facto) coalition government, and where Clegg had clearly said that he would be prepared to enter into coalition talks with whichever of Lab and Con did best in the GE? the LibDems whole raison d'etre has been to do well enough to take part in a coalition government! Were all pre-2010 members as self-delusional as you?
I don't agree that the coalition was bad for the Tories, a much more traditional small C conservative government would have p1ssed off a lot of liberal Tory voters like me. My view at the time (apart from sh1tting myself that Gordon would squeak back in in some way) was that the Coalition was preferable to a majority Conservative government.
What we do need to learn in British politics is how to conduct coalitions. Do the FDP go in for such self-indulgent angst every time they agree to form a coalition with the SDP or CDP?
“My friendship with Jimmy Savile developed over many years since I was assistant priest in St Patrick’s Parish, Kilsyth, along with the parish priest, the then Fr Denis O’Connell,” Cardinal O’Brien said. ” We were always trying to fundraise, not only for the parish, but for a variety of local and national charities and Father Denis had got to know Jimmy quite simply because of Jimmy’s mother, ‘The Duchess.’ It was Jimmy’s fond mother who attributed the healing of Jimmy when an infant to her prayers to the Venerable Margaret Sinclair, a young Scottish nun.
So, Jimmy Savile did charitable work and the clergy appreciated this.
Big f***ing deal.
What's your opinion on his resignation? Does that count as a big f deal?
Sure does, WITHIN THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH.
The lack of prosecutions or other legal actions speaks volumes of its importance to those outside it.
There is a separate issue, but I am restricted by moderation to discuss it.
Well we know that going into a coalition was catastrophic for the Liberals and bad for the Tories. I had the strong opinion in May 2010 that going into a coalition was a mistake, that it will suffocate it's policies and autonomy and be perceived to be in power not to implement it's policies but for the ministerial salary and vanity, being in power for power's sake and nothing else. I left the LD in that summer after I was proven right, never to return.
I feel that some ex-Tories felt the same about their ex-party and have gone to UKIP for the same reasons.
So why were you a member of a minority party that sold itself as being in the centre, supported PR and (ipso facto) coalition government, and where Clegg had clearly said that he would be prepared to enter into coalition talks with whichever of Lab and Con did best in the GE? the LibDems whole raison d'etre has been to do well enough to take part in a coalition government! Were all pre-2010 members as self-delusional as you?
I don't agree that the coalition was bad for the Tories, a much more traditional small C conservative government would have p1ssed off a lot of liberal Tory voters like me. My view at the time (apart from sh1tting myself that Gordon would squeak back in in some way) was that the Coalition was preferable to a majority Conservative government.
What we do need to learn in British politics is how to conduct coalitions. Do the FDP go in for such self-indulgent angst every time they agree to form a coalition with the SDP or CDP?
Remind me what happened to the FDP?
It generally bimbled along at just over 5% going into coalition first with the SDP and then the CDP. I'm not sure their recent loss of form has been down to coalition government, more the increased number of parties in the German system.
The judgment of the Divisional Court (Sir Brian Leveson P, Jay & Lewis JJ) in R. (on the application of Wheeler) v Office of the Prime Minister (No.2)[2014] EWHC 3815 (Admin) has now been handed down. The most interesting aspect of the judgment of the President of the Queen's Bench Division is found at [29]:
Mr Fisher's ... first ground was that it is the clear and settled intention of Parliament, following the enactment of the [European Union Act 2011], that no aspect of sovereignty should be transferred to an organ of the EU in the absence of a referendum. Mr Fisher refers to the preamble and to the Explanatory Notes. However, both of these must also be read in context, particularly the context of what the 2011 Act expressly provides. In our judgment, it provides, by section 6, for a detailed series of circumstances which, on the occurrence of any of them, the requirement for both primary legislation and the fulfilment of the referendum condition will be triggered. If the case falls outside the circumstances expressly specified, it cannot be accommodated within the statutory scheme by invoking some vague and generalised principle of 'Parliamentary intent'. There is no recognised principle of statutory construction which vouches such an approach: it is simply wrong.
This reasoning is legally impeccable. It confirms that far from being a "referendum lock", the 2011 Act will often be useless because the government choose to exclude several important methods by which sovereignty could be transferred to Brussels and Luxembourg from its scope. If excluded from the operation of the 2011 Act, the government may transfer sovereignty to Brussels and Luxembourg under the royal prerogative without even obtaining a resolution of either House of Parliament, which is precisely what is currently happening.
James Matthews @jamesmatthewsky · 13m13 minutes ago England fans chanting: 'You're just a small town in England'. Scotland fans: 'Jimmy Savile, he's one of your own'
But Jimmy's mate Cardinal Keith O'Brien ..ll
Justify your remark.
In any case, he was Irish.
Is he the one forced to retire due to groping and sexually assaulting young priests that he was in a position of power over?
No charges brought - why not ?
Having just read the wiki entry it's difficult, if taken at face value, to see why not.
Again, justify your remark.
Perhaps you wish to take out a private prosecution?
multiple allegations from multiple complainants, an admission that his sexual conduct was inappropriate, as stated if taken at face value, it's difficult to see why no charges were brought. I would guess it was because the accusers did not raise a specific complaint with the police. Why they didn't is anyone's guess.
We now seem to be heading in Scotland towards a repeat of the situation that led rapidly to Irish Home Rule in between 1918 and 1922.
That is, 105 seats won by Ireland specific parties that stood a good chance of holding the balance of power in all future parliaments until Ireland obtained Home Rule and ceased sending members to the Westminster Parliament, something I'm sure not lost on Salmond.
I will be surprised if he defected to UKIP, he may dislike Cameron and his team but he's funding Owen Paterson's think tank. Unless Paterson is going to defect too.
We now seem to be heading in Scotland towards a repeat of the situation that led rapidly to Irish Home Rule in between 1918 and 1922.
That is, 105 seats won by Ireland specific parties that stood a good chance of holding the balance of power in all future parliaments until Ireland obtained Home Rule and ceased sending members to the Westminster Parliament, something I'm sure not lost on Salmond.
Home Rule was achieved by 1918. What happened at that GE was the majority of the Irish electorate elected MPs who rejected Westminster rule entirely and set up a separate Parliament in Dublin. I dont see that as a likely mechanism for Scottish independence.
We now seem to be heading in Scotland towards a repeat of the situation that led rapidly to Irish Home Rule in between 1918 and 1922.
That is, 105 seats won by Ireland specific parties that stood a good chance of holding the balance of power in all future parliaments until Ireland obtained Home Rule and ceased sending members to the Westminster Parliament, something I'm sure not lost on Salmond.
James Matthews @jamesmatthewsky · 13m13 minutes ago England fans chanting: 'You're just a small town in England'. Scotland fans: 'Jimmy Savile, he's one of your own'
But Jimmy's mate Cardinal Keith O'Brien ..ll
Justify your remark.
In any case, he was Irish.
Is he the one forced to retire due to groping and sexually assaulting young priests that he was in a position of power over?
No charges brought - why not ?
Having just read the wiki entry it's difficult, if taken at face value, to see why not.
Again, justify your remark.
Perhaps you wish to take out a private prosecution?
multiple allegations from multiple complainants, an admission that his sexual conduct was inappropriate, as stated if taken at face value, it's difficult to see why no charges were brought. I would guess it was because the accusers did not raise a specific complaint with the police. Why they didn't is anyone's guess.
Or they were eccleisiastic offences, but not criminal ones.
Homosexual acts remain serious offences within the Roman Catholic Church.
Home Rule was achieved by 1918. What happened at that GE was the majority of the Irish electorate elected MPs who rejected Westminster rule entirely and set up a separate Parliament in Dublin. I dont see that as a likely mechanism for Scottish independence.
A slightly questionable assertion. No one seriously proposed, after the Buckingham Palace Conference in summer 1914, that the Government of Ireland Act 1914 would be bought into force unamended.
A few posters, only yesterday, were chiding me for the 'wishful thinking' of my Tory vote forecasts. I hope they are feeling suitably chaste today.
Yes, Nick Palmer, I'm thinking of you.
What were you forecasting CR?
My forecast was this, only yesterday afternoon:
"..I think the Tories will pull at least 5 points clear of Labour by election day, and I expect slightly more. If you Baxter: Con - 35% , Lab - 29.5%, Lib Dem - 14% and UKIP - 12% then you get Con on 312 seats, 14 short of a majority."
I stand by that forecast, although I think the seat totals for Con a little too high. I think something more like 295-305 seats.
This morning we had JackW with a very similar ARSE prediction. We now have an opinion poll showing Con very close to my predicted poll share, and in the lead.
Yet I have to put up with accusations I'm indulging in 'wishful thinking', and a PB Tory, by some posters, every time I post something that forecasts a Tory win. This is despite the fact I wasn't even planning to vote Conservative until Ed Miliband's speech, am fiercely critical of Cameron, and think the party will fall to pieces within a couple of years of winning GE2015.
Casino - Although like you, I am unhappy with Cameron's performance in a number of aspects, mainly relating to his weakness, unlike you I wouldn't consider voting other than Conservative irrespective, full stop. In the hope that (i) the Tories will win and (ii) Dave will hand over the reins within say a couple of years (personally I think that 7 years is long enough for anyone), I've backed Hammond to succeed him at 65 = 60.8/1 net in old money with Betfair which looks like value to me. His current odds are approx 35/1 net. Of course should Labour win, I've done my dough!
I wonder if UKIP will see a similar popularity spike to the SNP in the event of a 40-49% vote to leave the EU in the next few years, with all other parties campaigning for in.
If one can take a neutral position for a minute. Why is it that politicians and bureaucrats are so bloody useless at doing this sort of thing?
There are dozens of absolutely brilliant and sublime comic book writers and artists in Europe and I am sure that amongst them there will be people who share the aims of the EU and would be happy to create something of real style and subtlety that would work as real, effective propaganda/PR.
Instead we have the sort of stuff that would embarrass the Beano.
It strikes me that bureaucrats really don't get popular culture at all.
Mr Crosby, (good article, by the way) that sounds right. Thorpe was also in possession of a number of telegrams (remember them) from Liberal parties up and down the country (one from me, as an Agent and my candidate) ...... there had been frantic phone calls all over the place ..... pointing out that whoever had won the election, Heath had lost it!
I think there's also a report somewhere that Thorpe was offered the (don't laugh, folks) the post of Home Secretary.
IMHO that was Clegg's big mistake in 2010; Deputy PM is up there with VPOTUS .... sounds good but generally speaking that's been a dead end ..... whereas if Clegg had insisted on one of the Great Offices he'd have had a "real" job.
If we have to have a Coalition after May 7th no doubt lessons will have been learned.
Lesson number one: Never go into a coalition. Lesson number two: See lesson number one.
It's pathetic to think that the LD problem was that Nick Clegg became deputy PM instead of a Cabinet Secretary. Voters don't care, even if Clegg became Archbishop, the LD would still have been destroyed.
If we have a situation - which is not inconceivable - within the next 10 years of:
UKIP 100
Hehe: more entertaining than the football that one.
If one can take a neutral position for a minute. Why is it that politicians and bureaucrats are so bloody useless at doing this sort of thing?
There are dozens of absolutely brilliant and sublime comic book writers and artists in Europe and I am sure that amongst them there will be people who share the aims of the EU and would be happy to create something of real style and subtlety that would work as real, effective propaganda/PR.
Instead we have the sort of stuff that would embarrass the Beano.
It strikes me that bureaucrats really don't get popular culture at all.
This just about sums it up.....I Give you Bicycle Repair Man
We now seem to be heading in Scotland towards a repeat of the situation that led rapidly to Irish Home Rule in between 1918 and 1922.
That is, 105 seats won by Ireland specific parties that stood a good chance of holding the balance of power in all future parliaments until Ireland obtained Home Rule and ceased sending members to the Westminster Parliament, something I'm sure not lost on Salmond.
Home Rule was achieved by 1918. What happened at that GE was the majority of the Irish electorate elected MPs who rejected Westminster rule entirely and set up a separate Parliament in Dublin. I dont see that as a likely mechanism for Scottish independence.
leading to a bloody Anglo-Irish War, a unsatisfactory peace treaty followed by Civil War, and decades later a terrorist resurgence lasting 25 years, resulting in 3,000 deaths ...
James Matthews @jamesmatthewsky · 13m13 minutes ago England fans chanting: 'You're just a small town in England'. Scotland fans: 'Jimmy Savile, he's one of your own'
But Jimmy's mate Cardinal Keith O'Brien ..ll
Justify your remark.
In any case, he was Irish.
Is he the one forced to retire due to groping and sexually assaulting young priests that he was in a position of power over?
No charges brought - why not ?
Having just read the wiki entry it's difficult, if taken at face value, to see why not.
Again, justify your remark.
Perhaps you wish to take out a private prosecution?
multiple allegations from multiple complainants, an admission that his sexual conduct was inappropriate, as stated if taken at face value, it's difficult to see why no charges were brought. I would guess it was because the accusers did not raise a specific complaint with the police. Why they didn't is anyone's guess.
Or they were eccleisiastic offences, but not criminal ones.
Ah, the father Ted defence. I always thought allegations of "groping" where a criminal offence, as in sexual assault, but I'll bow to your superior knowledge of the law as it relates to young priests allegedly being touched up in the circumstances outlined in the wiki article.
I didn't realise Lord A was still in the Conservative Party to be honest. If he does defect it will register something like 0.0000000000000000000001% in the main opinion polls.
More global warming - today is the coldest November day in the US since 1976
In Europe it's quite a warm period. Seems that in the years that Europe freezes, America is quite warm. While when America freezes, Europe gets quite warm. Must be the jet stream.
It was minus 4 in Dallas this morning...
Dallas gets some nasty winter weather, but not this early. They have prodigious ice storms in Jan and Feb.
If one can take a neutral position for a minute. Why is it that politicians and bureaucrats are so bloody useless at doing this sort of thing?
There are dozens of absolutely brilliant and sublime comic book writers and artists in Europe and I am sure that amongst them there will be people who share the aims of the EU and would be happy to create something of real style and subtlety that would work as real, effective propaganda/PR.
Instead we have the sort of stuff that would embarrass the Beano.
It strikes me that bureaucrats really don't get popular culture at all.
"The book was such a hit that the publisher decided to re-release it with an addition entitled "Ted Cruz Saves America."
"This book was so wildly crazy popular," publisher Wayne Bell told USA Today. "Some parents consider this man a superhero."
In the new addendum, Cruz is depicted riding atop an eagle clutching a rifle, fighting a three-headed snake representing Obamacare, illegal immigration, and high taxes. One page with a "2016" label shows the senator striding toward the White House with his family."
If one can take a neutral position for a minute. Why is it that politicians and bureaucrats are so bloody useless at doing this sort of thing?
There are dozens of absolutely brilliant and sublime comic book writers and artists in Europe and I am sure that amongst them there will be people who share the aims of the EU and would be happy to create something of real style and subtlety that would work as real, effective propaganda/PR.
Instead we have the sort of stuff that would embarrass the Beano.
It strikes me that bureaucrats really don't get popular culture at all.
They don't.
This truly is the golden age of comics.
Personally they should have hired either Joss Whedon or Frank Miller.
James Matthews @jamesmatthewsky · 13m13 minutes ago England fans chanting: 'You're just a small town in England'. Scotland fans: 'Jimmy Savile, he's one of your own'
But Jimmy's mate Cardinal Keith O'Brien ..ll
Justify your remark.
In any case, he was Irish.
Is he the one forced to retire due to groping and sexually assaulting young priests that he was in a position of power over?
No charges brought - why not ?
Having just read the wiki entry it's difficult, if taken at face value, to see why not.
Again, justify your remark.
Perhaps you wish to take out a private prosecution?
multiple allegations from multiple complainants, an admission that his sexual conduct was inappropriate, as stated if taken at face value, it's difficult to see why no charges were brought. I would guess it was because the accusers did not raise a specific complaint with the police. Why they didn't is anyone's guess.
Or they were eccleisiastic offences, but not criminal ones.
Homosexual acts remain serious offences within the Roman Catholic Church.
I am interested to hear that the Cardinal is still a Cardinal:
I do hope that he gets a fair hearing in ecclesiastical court. With the Pope's recent conversion to a more enlightened view of homosexuality he may get a more sympathetic hearing.
Do the priests/seminary students involve also get tried in these courts? Or are they seen as victims?
If one can take a neutral position for a minute. Why is it that politicians and bureaucrats are so bloody useless at doing this sort of thing?
There are dozens of absolutely brilliant and sublime comic book writers and artists in Europe and I am sure that amongst them there will be people who share the aims of the EU and would be happy to create something of real style and subtlety that would work as real, effective propaganda/PR.
Instead we have the sort of stuff that would embarrass the Beano.
It strikes me that bureaucrats really don't get popular culture at all.
They don't.
This truly is the golden age of comics.
Personally they should have hired either Joss Whedon or Frank Miller.
Garth Ennis, Mark Millar or Warren Ellis could do with a bit of out and out political propaganda although I am not sure the language and violence would go down too well :-)
I'd love to see some London polling if that Hampstead and Highgate comment is true. For some time I wondered if London might shore up Labour, but some of the NuLab constituencies could now be under big threat thanks to the Mansion Tax e.g. in north London, west and south-west London? The Croydon ones don't strike me as quite fitting the same old-house-risen-in-value scenario but perhaps there too.
If one can take a neutral position for a minute. Why is it that politicians and bureaucrats are so bloody useless at doing this sort of thing?
There are dozens of absolutely brilliant and sublime comic book writers and artists in Europe and I am sure that amongst them there will be people who share the aims of the EU and would be happy to create something of real style and subtlety that would work as real, effective propaganda/PR.
Instead we have the sort of stuff that would embarrass the Beano.
It strikes me that bureaucrats really don't get popular culture at all.
They don't.
This truly is the golden age of comics.
Personally they should have hired either Joss Whedon or Frank Miller.
Garth Ennis, Mark Millar or Warren Ellis could do with a bit of out and out political propaganda although I am not sure the language and violence would go down too well :-)
Add in some Manga writers, we could increase interest in politics.
I'm no fan of the England football team by any means but I am rather enjoying their defeat of Scotland, a 'country' that has demanded too much of people's attention these past few months.
Mr Crosby, (good article, by the way) that sounds right. Thorpe was also in possession of a number of telegrams (remember them) from Liberal parties up and down the country (one from me, as an Agent and my candidate) ...... there had been frantic phone calls all over the place ..... pointing out that whoever had won the election, Heath had lost it!
I think there's also a report somewhere that Thorpe was offered the (don't laugh, folks) the post of Home Secretary.
IMHO that was Clegg's big mistake in 2010; Deputy PM is up there with VPOTUS .... sounds good but generally speaking that's been a dead end ..... whereas if Clegg had insisted on one of the Great Offices he'd have had a "real" job.
If we have to have a Coalition after May 7th no doubt lessons will have been learned.
Lesson number one: Never go into a coalition. Lesson number two: See lesson number one.
It's pathetic to think that the LD problem was that Nick Clegg became deputy PM instead of a Cabinet Secretary. Voters don't care, even if Clegg became Archbishop, the LD would still have been destroyed.
I think that the point is that if he'd had, say full control over say the Home Office then the Lib Dems would have areas of serious policy changes in which that they could say were 'worth' going into coalition. For example a liberalised drug policy and much stronger civil liberties agenda would've potentially allowed them to attract some of the voters who deserted them for Labour and the Greens. Of course that could never happen, as the Tory grass-roots have been angry enough as it is, and Dave would've likely had to resign at the height of his 2012 wobbles, as it would've required most of the Tory party voting for things that they thought were barmy, dangerous or both.
Clegg of course did have something big which he could've changed and pointed to - constitutional reform. However he flunked it - firstly by being initially too close to the Tories and alienating sections of his own party and Labour, which meant that the Yes to AV campaign wasn't anything like as powerful as it could have been. Difficult to see how he could've done this - but the only chance he had would've been to attempt to be a little more equidistant on the economy between the two parties and have realised in 2010 and 11 that he needed to fight much more strongly against the Tories than he did - before it looked like expediency. If possible at all, it would've taken incredible skill to both keep the coalition together while looking like potential insurgents on some issues.
Secondly, something which was his fault was putting forward terrible proposals for an elected Lords that didn't satisfy anyone - those who think it's an anachronism were hardly going to be happy with 15 year terms, appointees and bishops. Those who think it serves a decent purpose wouldn't want it anyway.
Comments
http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/theres-now-an-actual-eu-superhero-to-combat-nigel-farage--l1A881HJOg
Lesson number two: See lesson number one.
It's pathetic to think that the LD problem was that Nick Clegg became deputy PM instead of a Cabinet Secretary.
Voters don't care, even if Clegg became Archbishop, the LD would still have been destroyed.
It wasn't particularly bad-mannered either - rather less indelicate than PB and far more decorous than, say, the Scotsman or Guido.
No wonder the BBC chap is expecting people to feel paranoid.
In any case, he was Irish.
“My friendship with Jimmy Savile developed over many years since I was assistant priest in St Patrick’s Parish, Kilsyth, along with the parish priest, the then Fr Denis O’Connell,” Cardinal O’Brien said. ” We were always trying to fundraise, not only for the parish, but for a variety of local and national charities and Father Denis had got to know Jimmy quite simply because of Jimmy’s mother, ‘The Duchess.’ It was Jimmy’s fond mother who attributed the healing of Jimmy when an infant to her prayers to the Venerable Margaret Sinclair, a young Scottish nun.
See 1970's to apply a reasonable non-catastrophic solution for either of the 3 major parties of the day.
Instead this coalition like all other coalitions after universal suffrage was an exercise in destroying the parties involved, especially the smaller ones.
The LD MP's got their ministerial limo's and LD voters kissed them goodbye, and the Tory party base split towards UKIP.
That is what history will write, not "Clegg not getting the Home Office resulted in LD voters leaving".
But, of course, we'll never know!
http://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/humanitarian_campaign_launched_to_stop_labour_s_mansion_tax_1_3809207
Seems that in the years that Europe freezes, America is quite warm. While when America freezes, Europe gets quite warm.
Must be the jet stream.
As for the Ides of November, we shall see :-)
Every state including Hawaii reported a freezing temperature overnight.
Please someone smash up the Skybet 5/6.. they even give you an extra 0.5%
I had the strong opinion in May 2010 that going into a coalition was a mistake, that it will suffocate it's policies and autonomy and be perceived to be in power not to implement it's policies but for the ministerial salary and vanity, being in power for power's sake and nothing else.
I left the LD in that summer after I was proven right, never to return.
I feel that some ex-Tories felt the same about their ex-party and have gone to UKIP for the same reasons.
So far it seems very mild, the cold air must be stuck over North America.
Big f***ing deal.
@LordAshcroft Guess who is with who?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2wMSWPCQAAo5Dv.jpg
Perhaps you wish to take out a private prosecution?
I don't agree that the coalition was bad for the Tories, a much more traditional small C conservative government would have p1ssed off a lot of liberal Tory voters like me. My view at the time (apart from sh1tting myself that Gordon would squeak back in in some way) was that the Coalition was preferable to a majority Conservative government.
What we do need to learn in British politics is how to conduct coalitions. Do the FDP go in for such self-indulgent angst every time they agree to form a coalition with the SDP or CDP?
I was embarrassed - for Ed. Seriously, he looked like a (grey) schoolboy debater who couldn't negotiate his way out of a paper bag. He was getting savaged. There's just something about him: his posture, his eyes (alternately vacant or transfixed), the way he listens to others' points, the frowning, the blinking, the waffly unnatural way in which he responds to them, the painful way he tries to introduce humour into it, the overly earnest way in which he tries to get his points to land home - with contorted finger pointing. The way he pauses after he thinks he's made a good point, and gets no reaction. The way he misjudges when to interrupt, and how.. the way he gets interrupted and misjudges how to handle it..
If he can't handle a barracking by an ex-member of Hear'say, then there has to be serious questions opening up again about his leadership.
I think he's probably safe until Christmas, but I can see another attempt at a putsch again in January. I don't know if that will succeed or not. Probably not, but it will be tried.
Conservatives 275
Labour 225
UKIP 100
SNP 20
LibDems 20
Others 10
Then you'll have coalitions whether you like it or not.
I suspect political parties which refused to go into coalitions for reasons of idealogical purity, and therefore caused additional elections, would be treated harshly by the electorate.
Secondly you caveated out the Irish coalitions (i.e. the only other ones the Liberals took part in).
Thirdly you haven't even nearly shown causation, particularly for the first Labour ministry.
If you were aware of the party organisation problems caused by the splits that existed from 1916 onwards (but especially in the 1924 election) then you've unjustifiably overlooked them.
That it was termed a 2.5 system rather than a 3 party system illustrates that it wasn't a 3 major party system (also culminated).
Also you think that the Liberal party of the 1960s was one seat away from being a major party? Really?
The lack of prosecutions or other legal actions speaks volumes of its importance to those outside it.
There is a separate issue, but I am restricted by moderation to discuss it.
That is, 105 seats won by Ireland specific parties that stood a good chance of holding the balance of power in all future parliaments until Ireland obtained Home Rule and ceased sending members to the Westminster Parliament, something I'm sure not lost on Salmond.
Unless Paterson is going to defect too.
Thank you for doubling my money.
Yours etc
Homosexual acts remain serious offences within the Roman Catholic Church.
There are dozens of absolutely brilliant and sublime comic book writers and artists in Europe and I am sure that amongst them there will be people who share the aims of the EU and would be happy to create something of real style and subtlety that would work as real, effective propaganda/PR.
Instead we have the sort of stuff that would embarrass the Beano.
It strikes me that bureaucrats really don't get popular culture at all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54CpPlCnM4I
You're in for a real shock on Friday.
In more ways than one.
Or, 10% in his.
36 degrees of frost - that IS cold!
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ted-cruz-senator-or-coloring-book-superhero/
"The book was such a hit that the publisher decided to re-release it with an addition entitled "Ted Cruz Saves America."
"This book was so wildly crazy popular," publisher Wayne Bell told USA Today. "Some parents consider this man a superhero."
In the new addendum, Cruz is depicted riding atop an eagle clutching a rifle, fighting a three-headed snake representing Obamacare, illegal immigration, and high taxes. One page with a "2016" label shows the senator striding toward the White House with his family."
It has a video promo too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY-kHFX6KWM
This truly is the golden age of comics.
Personally they should have hired either Joss Whedon or Frank Miller.
As I've been saying, it's a terrible terrible mistake. EdM has alienated a lot of people who matter.
Interesting comment about Glenda's Hampstead & Highgate seat now being under threat.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/revealed-sex-shame-cardinal-keith-3867102
I do hope that he gets a fair hearing in ecclesiastical court. With the Pope's recent conversion to a more enlightened view of homosexuality he may get a more sympathetic hearing.
Do the priests/seminary students involve also get tried in these courts? Or are they seen as victims?
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cartoon/2014/nov/18/steve-bell-cartoon-myleene-klass-ed-miliband-mansion-tax?view=classic
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pleb-bob-geldof-tells-court-4652429
http://www.rte.ie/ten/news/2014/1118/660468-benjy-simpsons/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2838098/Why-seals-having-sex-PENGUINS-Large-mammals-caught-attempting-mate-birds-multiple-occasions.html
Economy the size of East Anglia's.
Clegg of course did have something big which he could've changed and pointed to - constitutional reform. However he flunked it - firstly by being initially too close to the Tories and alienating sections of his own party and Labour, which meant that the Yes to AV campaign wasn't anything like as powerful as it could have been. Difficult to see how he could've done this - but the only chance he had would've been to attempt to be a little more equidistant on the economy between the two parties and have realised in 2010 and 11 that he needed to fight much more strongly against the Tories than he did - before it looked like expediency. If possible at all, it would've taken incredible skill to both keep the coalition together while looking like potential insurgents on some issues.
Secondly, something which was his fault was putting forward terrible proposals for an elected Lords that didn't satisfy anyone - those who think it's an anachronism were hardly going to be happy with 15 year terms, appointees and bishops. Those who think it serves a decent purpose wouldn't want it anyway.
Tomorrow's telegraph has managed it as well
'Father claims Scotland Yard covered up son's murder'
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2wUwbICYAIrhxD.jpg