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  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    @rcs1000

    Not quite as bad as The Kipper Tie joke...
  • rcs1000 said:

    @isam, @TSE

    What bad joke am I being accused of cracking?

    How about this one guys:

    At the British Women's Conference, the first speaker from Bristol stood up:
    "At last year's conference we spoke about being more assertive with our husbands. Well after the conference I went home and told my husband that I would no longer cook for him and that he would have to do it himself. After the first day I saw nothing. After the second day I saw nothing. But after the third day I saw that he had cooked a wonderful roast lamb."

    The crowd cheered.

    The second speaker from Hammersmith stood up:
    "After last year's conference I went home and told my husband that I would no longer do his laundry and that he would have to do it himself. After the first day I saw nothing. After the second day I saw nothing. But after the third day I saw that he had done not only his own washing but my washing as well."

    The crowd cheered.

    The third speaker from Rochester stood up:
    "After last year's conference I went home and told my husband that I would no longer do his shopping and that he would have to do it himself. After the first day I saw nothing. After the second day I saw nothing. But after the third day I could see a little bit out of my left eye."

    The Oscar Pistorious shooting your load over your girlfriend one.

    I liked it.

    But PB's Mary Whitehouse is a bit upset over it
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BBCBreaking: Former Sunday Mirror journalist Graham Johnson admits intercepting voicemail messages in 2001 http://t.co/ORS41Ecd4L
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    Scott_P said:

    @MrTimDunn: *Perfect* statistic:
    "Were you offended by the plan to burn an effigy of Alex Salmond in Sussex:
    YES: 45%
    NO: 55% http://t.co/tg56p5Houp

    I was at a Sportsman's dinner in the People's republic of Jockistan on Friday. After several barbed comments about the great chieftain of the Pudding race the Speaker said: "But I have no doubt that despite all this Alex is looking down on us benevolently. Not because he has any God like attributes but more because he is a condescending b******."

    Given we were in Dundee this went down remarkably well.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    edited November 2014
    MikeK said:

    Site Notice

    anyone who can't post here unsupervised will be smote by the ban hammer on our return.

    Arf - always suspected Jehova was part of the mod team... ; )
    Sounds a bit more like Thor to me. ;)
    'I'm Thor'.

    'I'm thor too, I can hardly thit down.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Sam, rcs,

    Unfortunately, all the best jokes are in bad taste.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    @rcs1000

    Do you mean to say that only one husband objected? Heavens what are we coming too.

    The joke was amusing though.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited November 2014

    rcs1000 said:

    @isam, @TSE

    What bad joke am I being accused of cracking?

    How about this one guys:

    At the British Women's Conference, the first speaker from Bristol stood up:
    "At last year's conference we spoke about being more assertive with our husbands. Well after the conference I went home and told my husband that I would no longer cook for him and that he would have to do it himself. After the first day I saw nothing. After the second day I saw nothing. But after the third day I saw that he had cooked a wonderful roast lamb."

    The crowd cheered.

    The second speaker from Hammersmith stood up:
    "After last year's conference I went home and told my husband that I would no longer do his laundry and that he would have to do it himself. After the first day I saw nothing. After the second day I saw nothing. But after the third day I saw that he had done not only his own washing but my washing as well."

    The crowd cheered.

    The third speaker from Rochester stood up:
    "After last year's conference I went home and told my husband that I would no longer do his shopping and that he would have to do it himself. After the first day I saw nothing. After the second day I saw nothing. But after the third day I could see a little bit out of my left eye."

    The Oscar Pistorious shooting your load over your girlfriend one.

    I liked it.

    But PB's Mary Whitehouse is a bit upset over it
    If both you and Isam are going to Dirty Dicks, I might make a special effort to come and watch. Both of you will be bringing your special battle-handbags, I presume?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    dr_spyn said:

    MikeK said:

    Site Notice

    anyone who can't post here unsupervised will be smote by the ban hammer on our return.

    Arf - always suspected Jehova was part of the mod team... ; )
    Sounds a bit more like Thor to me. ;)
    'I'm Thor'.

    'I'm thor too, I can hardly thit down.
    OMG! in the middle of the morning too. Help!!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    rcs1000 said:

    @isam, @TSE

    What bad joke am I being accused of cracking?

    How about this one guys:

    At the British Women's Conference, the first speaker from Bristol stood up:
    "At last year's conference we spoke about being more assertive with our husbands. Well after the conference I went home and told my husband that I would no longer cook for him and that he would have to do it himself. After the first day I saw nothing. After the second day I saw nothing. But after the third day I saw that he had cooked a wonderful roast lamb."

    The crowd cheered.

    The second speaker from Hammersmith stood up:
    "After last year's conference I went home and told my husband that I would no longer do his laundry and that he would have to do it himself. After the first day I saw nothing. After the second day I saw nothing. But after the third day I saw that he had done not only his own washing but my washing as well."

    The crowd cheered.

    The third speaker from Rochester stood up:
    "After last year's conference I went home and told my husband that I would no longer do his shopping and that he would have to do it himself. After the first day I saw nothing. After the second day I saw nothing. But after the third day I could see a little bit out of my left eye."

    I would say but apparently that would make me as bad as the person who said it originally

    It's TSE's joke, he said it and wont apologise so obviously thinks its really funny, so I'll let him do the honours
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Tapestry said:

    OGH at number 9:

    http://uk.labs.teads.tv/top-blogs/search/politics

    Blog ranking based on the score calculated by Teads which considers various numerous parameters including the number of backlinks, the number of shares of its articles on Facebook and Twitter

    The Tap got into the top 40 political blogs a few times, then it was chopped from the list. Anyone who really takes on the system is made invisible in the rankings. I wondered how long our rankings presence would last. Once you blog that 9/11 is false flag, you become invisible. I wonder if comments on here can be made invisible other than to the commenter. There is software like that around.....

    Tapestry, why are all your posts blank?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Cyclefree said:

    BenM said:

    Socrates said:

    Here's the full Migration Watch response to that dishonest CREAM report:

    http://news.migrationwatch.org.uk/2014/11/comment-on-creams-revised-report-the-fiscal-effects-of-immigration-to-the-uk.html

    The BBC of course headlines with the +£4bn line on EU migrants (ignoring those from pre-2001) rather than the -£95bn for all immigrants for the whole period.

    The BBC headlined with the relevant recent migrants figure.

    The floundering anti-imigration frothers have gone for the other figure without realising it's talking about the impact from all non UK born in the specified period regardless when they immigrated (and hence their initial contribution which may have been made in the 60s, 70s or 80s)!

    The Telegraph got caught out with its pants down on this point yesterday when trying to link that passage to migration under Labour - although those migrants may have come here decades before.
    BenM: if you remove the link with immigration during the post-1997 period, isn't the point the same i.e. that the report shows that the economic impact of all immigrants is a minus figure?

    A genuine question btw. I haven't had the time to read the report.
    I think the point it made was that immigration from the EU has been generally very good for the country, and immigration from outside the EU had not been. Given the extreme variability of non-EU immigration (American hedge fund managers plus illiterate third world'ers), it would suggest the correct thing to do would be clamp down on third world immigration, but leave the doors open to our European breatheren.

  • Not mine, forget where I read it:

    Three builders are at work, sitting high up on scaffolding, eating their packed lunches. The first, a chap with black hair, sighs.

    "Tuna sandwiches. Again! I must've complained about tuna sodding sandwiches a hundred times. If I get them one more bloody day I'll throw myself off this building!"

    The second, a redhead, opens his lunchbox and finds tuna sandwiches. "Christ on his cross, I'll join you if I end up with these damned things again!"

    The third, a blonde, open his lunchbox. Sure enough, it's tuna. "Tuna for me as well! One more damned time and *I'll* jump as well!"

    The next day, they're back there. The brunette opens his lunchbox, angrily flings the tuna sandwiches away and then leaps from the building to his death. The redhead also finds he has tuna sandwiches, and jumps to his doom. And then the blonde, crying with rage, kills himself the same way.

    The three men are buried on the same day, and their wives (who happen to have corresponding hair colour) are there. The brunette and redhead are weeping uncontrollably and blaming themselves, asking why they never listened to their husbands' complaints. The blonde looks sad but isn't beating herself up.

    "What's wrong with you? Don't you feel guilty?" the other two wives ask.

    The blonde sighs. "I'm sad he's gone, but he made his own sandwiches."
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,960
    edited November 2014
    Anorak said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @isam, @TSE

    What bad joke am I being accused of cracking?

    How about this one guys:

    At the British Women's Conference, the first speaker from Bristol stood up:
    "At last year's conference we spoke about being more assertive with our husbands. Well after the conference I went home and told my husband that I would no longer cook for him and that he would have to do it himself. After the first day I saw nothing. After the second day I saw nothing. But after the third day I saw that he had cooked a wonderful roast lamb."

    The crowd cheered.

    The second speaker from Hammersmith stood up:
    "After last year's conference I went home and told my husband that I would no longer do his laundry and that he would have to do it himself. After the first day I saw nothing. After the second day I saw nothing. But after the third day I saw that he had done not only his own washing but my washing as well."

    The crowd cheered.

    The third speaker from Rochester stood up:
    "After last year's conference I went home and told my husband that I would no longer do his shopping and that he would have to do it himself. After the first day I saw nothing. After the second day I saw nothing. But after the third day I could see a little bit out of my left eye."

    The Oscar Pistorious shooting your load over your girlfriend one.

    I liked it.

    But PB's Mary Whitehouse is a bit upset over it
    If both you and Isam are going to Dirty Dicks, I might make a special effort to come and watch. Both of you will be bringing your special battle-handbags, I presume?
    I'll be bringing my 600 quid Louis Vuitton man bag to Dirty Dicks.

    Nothing says I'm a flaming member of the multicultural metropolitan elite than that.

    I'm sure kippers will love it.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    MikeK said:

    @rcs1000

    Do you mean to say that only one husband objected? Heavens what are we coming too.

    The joke was amusing though.

    A Conservative supporter was walking along the banks of the Thames in East London deep in prayer. All of a sudden he said out loud, "God, grant me one wish." Suddenly the sky clouded above his head and in a booming voice the God said, "Because you have had the faith to ask, I will grant you one wish." The man said, "Wow. That's amazing; what I would love is a bridge from Rotherhithe to Wapping, so as to ease the awful congestion."

    God said, "Your request is very materialistic. Think of the logistics of that kind of undertaking. The concrete and steel it would take! I can do it, but it is hard for me to justify your desire for worldly things. Take a little more time and think of another wish, a wish you think would honor and glorify me."

    The Conservative supporter thought for a long time. Finally he said, "God, all my friends are voting UKIP. Just let me know: what does David Cameron need to do to be loved by these Kippers?"

    After a few minutes God said, "You want two lanes or four on that bridge?"
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Agence France-Presse ‏@AFP 2m2 minutes ago
    #UPDATE Ukraine says anyone crossing in or out of areas controlled by separatists will have to show a passport http://u.afp.com/6Ru

    The partitioning of Ukraine continues apace and it's Kiev thats hardening the fault lines.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Not mine, forget where I read it:

    Three builders are at work, sitting high up on scaffolding, eating their packed lunches. The first, a chap with black hair, sighs.

    "Tuna sandwiches. Again! I must've complained about tuna sodding sandwiches a hundred times. If I get them one more bloody day I'll throw myself off this building!"

    The second, a redhead, opens his lunchbox and finds tuna sandwiches. "Christ on his cross, I'll join you if I end up with these damned things again!"

    The third, a blonde, open his lunchbox. Sure enough, it's tuna. "Tuna for me as well! One more damned time and *I'll* jump as well!"

    The next day, they're back there. The brunette opens his lunchbox, angrily flings the tuna sandwiches away and then leaps from the building to his death. The redhead also finds he has tuna sandwiches, and jumps to his doom. And then the blonde, crying with rage, kills himself the same way.

    The three men are buried on the same day, and their wives (who happen to have corresponding hair colour) are there. The brunette and redhead are weeping uncontrollably and blaming themselves, asking why they never listened to their husbands' complaints. The blonde looks sad but isn't beating herself up.

    "What's wrong with you? Don't you feel guilty?" the other two wives ask.

    The blonde sighs. "I'm sad he's gone, but he made his own sandwiches."

    Wow the PC police have been at that one I see!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014

    Tapestry said:

    OGH at number 9:

    http://uk.labs.teads.tv/top-blogs/search/politics

    Blog ranking based on the score calculated by Teads which considers various numerous parameters including the number of backlinks, the number of shares of its articles on Facebook and Twitter

    The Tap got into the top 40 political blogs a few times, then it was chopped from the list. Anyone who really takes on the system is made invisible in the rankings. I wondered how long our rankings presence would last. Once you blog that 9/11 is false flag, you become invisible. I wonder if comments on here can be made invisible other than to the commenter. There is software like that around.....

    Tapestry, why are all your posts blank?
    Who?
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    edited November 2014
    Smarmeron said:

    @Ishmael_X
    "Dear old Kelly does sound a teeny bit vacuous there"

    Possibly, but as there is at the moment a Sikh festival, where it is incumbent on them to feed all the poor ( including non Sikh's), perhaps she could be forgiven for being inclusive?

    The Sikh (and indeed the Indian) community has been in the Medway towns and in North West Kent for a long time. The original comment from Ukiper "Laurence" is highly offensive. I'm no social liberal myself but his remark is blatantly racist and sadly indicative of some of the Ukip hangers-on. Kelly is actually doing well and I'll be interested to see the next R & S poll.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    BenM said:

    Socrates said:

    Here's the full Migration Watch response to that dishonest CREAM report:

    http://news.migrationwatch.org.uk/2014/11/comment-on-creams-revised-report-the-fiscal-effects-of-immigration-to-the-uk.html

    The BBC of course headlines with the +£4bn line on EU migrants (ignoring those from pre-2001) rather than the -£95bn for all immigrants for the whole period.

    The BBC headlined with the relevant recent migrants figure.

    The floundering anti-imigration frothers have gone for the other figure without realising it's talking about the impact from all non UK born in the specified period regardless when they immigrated (and hence their initial contribution which may have been made in the 60s, 70s or 80s)!

    The Telegraph got caught out with its pants down on this point yesterday when trying to link that passage to migration under Labour - although those migrants may have come here decades before.
    BenM: if you remove the link with immigration during the post-1997 period, isn't the point the same i.e. that the report shows that the economic impact of all immigrants is a minus figure?

    A genuine question btw. I haven't had the time to read the report.
    I think the point it made was that immigration from the EU has been generally very good for the country, and immigration from outside the EU had not been. Given the extreme variability of non-EU immigration (American hedge fund managers plus illiterate third world'ers), it would suggest the correct thing to do would be clamp down on third world immigration, but leave the doors open to our European breatheren.

    But there's going to be a degree of variability even within that European number that's being hidden by that headline figure. I'm sure the engineers are net contributors and the minimum wage cleaners are net drains. Isn't the sensible thing to do to filter both?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    MikeK said:

    Agence France-Presse ‏@AFP 2m2 minutes ago
    #UPDATE Ukraine says anyone crossing in or out of areas controlled by separatists will have to show a passport http://u.afp.com/6Ru

    The partitioning of Ukraine continues apace and it's Kiev thats hardening the fault lines.

    TBF, an official partition would probably be in everyone's interests.

    Time to buy Russian equities?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Socrates said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    BenM said:

    Socrates said:

    Here's the full Migration Watch response to that dishonest CREAM report:

    http://news.migrationwatch.org.uk/2014/11/comment-on-creams-revised-report-the-fiscal-effects-of-immigration-to-the-uk.html

    The BBC of course headlines with the +£4bn line on EU migrants (ignoring those from pre-2001) rather than the -£95bn for all immigrants for the whole period.

    The BBC headlined with the relevant recent migrants figure.

    The floundering anti-imigration frothers have gone for the other figure without realising it's talking about the impact from all non UK born in the specified period regardless when they immigrated (and hence their initial contribution which may have been made in the 60s, 70s or 80s)!

    The Telegraph got caught out with its pants down on this point yesterday when trying to link that passage to migration under Labour - although those migrants may have come here decades before.
    BenM: if you remove the link with immigration during the post-1997 period, isn't the point the same i.e. that the report shows that the economic impact of all immigrants is a minus figure?

    A genuine question btw. I haven't had the time to read the report.
    I think the point it made was that immigration from the EU has been generally very good for the country, and immigration from outside the EU had not been. Given the extreme variability of non-EU immigration (American hedge fund managers plus illiterate third world'ers), it would suggest the correct thing to do would be clamp down on third world immigration, but leave the doors open to our European breatheren.

    But there's going to be a degree of variability even within that European number that's being hidden by that headline figure. I'm sure the engineers are net contributors and the minimum wage cleaners are net drains. Isn't the sensible thing to do to filter both?
    Yes, the question is which is more damaging the UK economic: allowing a few cleaners into the country, or imposing a bureaucracy.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,960
    edited November 2014
    Anorak said:
    One of my Aunties* is a real life Lady Whiteadder, she slapped me around the face and called me a wicked child**

    The worst thing was, she didn't have an inheritance for me.

    *Aunty is the Pakistan close family friend sense

    **She called me a "Zalaam Bacha" which is Urdu for Cruel child, which made me think of Lady Whiteadder as she slapped me (note I was 25 at the time)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    Anorak said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @isam, @TSE

    What bad joke am I being accused of cracking?

    How about this one guys:

    At the British Women's Conference, the first speaker from Bristol stood up:
    "At last year's conference we spoke about being more assertive with our husbands. Well after the conference I went home and told my husband that I would no longer cook for him and that he would have to do it himself. After the first day I saw nothing. After the second day I saw nothing. But after the third day I saw that he had cooked a wonderful roast lamb."

    The crowd cheered.

    The second speaker from Hammersmith stood up:
    "After last year's conference I went home and told my husband that I would no longer do his laundry and that he would have to do it himself. After the first day I saw nothing. After the second day I saw nothing. But after the third day I saw that he had done not only his own washing but my washing as well."

    The crowd cheered.

    The third speaker from Rochester stood up:
    "After last year's conference I went home and told my husband that I would no longer do his shopping and that he would have to do it himself. After the first day I saw nothing. After the second day I saw nothing. But after the third day I could see a little bit out of my left eye."

    The Oscar Pistorious shooting your load over your girlfriend one.

    I liked it.

    But PB's Mary Whitehouse is a bit upset over it
    If both you and Isam are going to Dirty Dicks, I might make a special effort to come and watch. Both of you will be bringing your special battle-handbags, I presume?
    I'll be bringing my 600 quid Louis Vuitton man bag to Dirty Dicks.

    Nothing says I'm a flaming member of the multicultural metropolitan elite than that.

    I'm sure kippers will love it.
    Lord Ponceyboots Gaylord the Gayest ?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821
    Is this Laurence person really a UKIP candidate? If so, time he was chopped -his comment was nasty and not constructive. I don't mind someone breaking the rules of PC, but only in the cause of truth, not to be mean-spirited.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Anorak said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @isam, @TSE

    What bad joke am I being accused of cracking?

    How about this one guys:

    At the British Women's Conference, the first speaker from Bristol stood up:
    "At last year's conference we spoke about being more assertive with our husbands. Well after the conference I went home and told my husband that I would no longer cook for him and that he would have to do it himself. After the first day I saw nothing. After the second day I saw nothing. But after the third day I saw that he had cooked a wonderful roast lamb."

    The crowd cheered.

    The second speaker from Hammersmith stood up:
    "After last year's conference I went home and told my husband that I would no longer do his laundry and that he would have to do it himself. After the first day I saw nothing. After the second day I saw nothing. But after the third day I saw that he had done not only his own washing but my washing as well."

    The crowd cheered.

    The third speaker from Rochester stood up:
    "After last year's conference I went home and told my husband that I would no longer do his shopping and that he would have to do it himself. After the first day I saw nothing. After the second day I saw nothing. But after the third day I could see a little bit out of my left eye."

    The Oscar Pistorious shooting your load over your girlfriend one.

    I liked it.

    But PB's Mary Whitehouse is a bit upset over it
    If both you and Isam are going to Dirty Dicks, I might make a special effort to come and watch. Both of you will be bringing your special battle-handbags, I presume?
    I'll be bringing my 600 quid Louis Vuitton man bag to Dirty Dicks.

    Nothing says I'm a flaming member of the multicultural metropolitan elite than that.

    I'm sure kippers will love it.
    Lord Ponceyboots Gaylord the Gayest ?
    Only if I have this phone

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2708965/Worried-Apples-new-iPhone-6-wont-bling-Diamond-encrusted-platinum-version-goes-sale-8800-yellow-pink-gold-versions.html
  • rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    BenM said:

    Socrates said:

    Here's the full Migration Watch response to that dishonest CREAM report:

    http://news.migrationwatch.org.uk/2014/11/comment-on-creams-revised-report-the-fiscal-effects-of-immigration-to-the-uk.html

    The BBC of course headlines with the +£4bn line on EU migrants (ignoring those from pre-2001) rather than the -£95bn for all immigrants for the whole period.

    The BBC headlined with the relevant recent migrants figure.

    The floundering anti-imigration frothers have gone for the other figure without realising it's talking about the impact from all non UK born in the specified period regardless when they immigrated (and hence their initial contribution which may have been made in the 60s, 70s or 80s)!

    The Telegraph got caught out with its pants down on this point yesterday when trying to link that passage to migration under Labour - although those migrants may have come here decades before.
    BenM: if you remove the link with immigration during the post-1997 period, isn't the point the same i.e. that the report shows that the economic impact of all immigrants is a minus figure?

    A genuine question btw. I haven't had the time to read the report.
    I think the point it made was that immigration from the EU has been generally very good for the country, and immigration from outside the EU had not been. Given the extreme variability of non-EU immigration (American hedge fund managers plus illiterate third world'ers), it would suggest the correct thing to do would be clamp down on third world immigration, but leave the doors open to our European breatheren.

    I don't think it's even saying that. In the period since 1995 non-British born have been a net drain on the exchequer - because many who arrived in the 50s, 60s and 70s are now retired and are net withdrawers - but no account has been made of their contribution over the previous decades - just the net cost since 1995. In contrast when we look at the EU arrivals they are net contributers - tho of course, if they retire here that may balance out.....

  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    So Labour's 2004 decision to not impose restrictions on citizens from the A8 countries was enormously beneficial to the country economically with few social issues. End of story in that regard.

    On the politics however it was also beneficial to the non thinking Right, which has used immigration to spread unwarranted fear and bash Labour ever since. Labour did not help themselves in that regard, basically dancing to the same tune under a spineless Tony Blair.

    The facts are on Labour's side.

    The screaming fact free hysteria benefits the Tories and UKIP though.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @GeorgeMonbiot: Here's my prediction. Unless @UKLabour swerves sharply away from austerity and neoliberalism, by 2025 it'll have less than 10 seats.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    rcs1000 said:

    Yes, the question is which is more damaging the UK economic: allowing a few cleaners into the country, or imposing a bureaucracy.

    I suspect that depends on the value of "a few", if its thousands probably not, if its hundreds of thousands there might be room for concern. If its Big Issue sellers with 9 kids and a 14 year old niece begging then, pulling in £26k+ a year in benefits...
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    rcs1000 said:

    Socrates said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    BenM said:

    Socrates said:

    Here's the full Migration Watch response to that dishonest CREAM report:

    http://news.migrationwatch.org.uk/2014/11/comment-on-creams-revised-report-the-fiscal-effects-of-immigration-to-the-uk.html

    The BBC of course headlines with the +£4bn line on EU migrants (ignoring those from pre-2001) rather than the -£95bn for all immigrants for the whole period.

    The BBC headlined with the relevant recent migrants figure.

    The floundering anti-imigration frothers have gone for the other figure without realising it's talking about the impact from all non UK born in the specified period regardless when they immigrated (and hence their initial contribution which may have been made in the 60s, 70s or 80s)!

    The Telegraph got caught out with its pants down on this point yesterday when trying to link that passage to migration under Labour - although those migrants may have come here decades before.
    BenM: if you remove the link with immigration during the post-1997 period, isn't the point the same i.e. that the report shows that the economic impact of all immigrants is a minus figure?

    A genuine question btw. I haven't had the time to read the report.
    I think the point it made was that immigration from the EU has been generally very good for the country, and immigration from outside the EU had not been. Given the extreme variability of non-EU immigration (American hedge fund managers plus illiterate third world'ers), it would suggest the correct thing to do would be clamp down on third world immigration, but leave the doors open to our European breatheren.

    But there's going to be a degree of variability even within that European number that's being hidden by that headline figure. I'm sure the engineers are net contributors and the minimum wage cleaners are net drains. Isn't the sensible thing to do to filter both?
    Yes, the question is which is more damaging the UK economic: allowing a few cleaners into the country, or imposing a bureaucracy.
    I think it's more a case of allowing a huge number of unskilled migrants or extending the existing bureaucracy to cover EU migrants. It's not just cleaners: it's minimum wage retail workers, minimum wage builders, minimum wage agricultural workers etc, etc.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Scott_P said:

    @GeorgeMonbiot: Here's my prediction. Unless @UKLabour swerves sharply away from austerity and neoliberalism, by 2025 it'll have less than 10 seats.

    Well, since he's been right on so many other issues, he must be taken seriously! Snicker.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    edited November 2014
    Scott_P said:

    @GeorgeMonbiot: Here's my prediction. Unless @UKLabour swerves sharply away from austerity and neoliberalism, by 2025 it'll have less than 10 seats.

    £5000 @ 5-6 they'll have more than 10.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    DavidL said:

    Tapestry said:

    OGH at number 9:

    http://uk.labs.teads.tv/top-blogs/search/politics

    Blog ranking based on the score calculated by Teads which considers various numerous parameters including the number of backlinks, the number of shares of its articles on Facebook and Twitter

    The Tap got into the top 40 political blogs a few times, then it was chopped from the list. Anyone who really takes on the system is made invisible in the rankings. I wondered how long our rankings presence would last. Once you blog that 9/11 is false flag, you become invisible. I wonder if comments on here can be made invisible other than to the commenter. There is software like that around.....

    Tapestry, why are all your posts blank?
    Who?
    Quiet minion, and bow down to your lizard overlord, or else the secret weather weapon will be aimed in your general direction.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    From October: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ukips-nigel-farage-ill-offer-4422291

    "But if Mr Miliband was PM in a minority Labour ­government, Mr Farage would use his MPs’ votes to keep him there."

  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Scott_P said:

    @GeorgeMonbiot: Here's my prediction. Unless @UKLabour swerves sharply away from austerity and neoliberalism, by 2025 it'll have less than 10 seats.

    And if they do swerve sharply away they will still have 10 seats, because the economy will have imploded before 2025 and it will be 1979 for Labour all over again.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821
    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    BenM said:

    Socrates said:

    Here's the full Migration Watch response to that dishonest CREAM report:

    http://news.migrationwatch.org.uk/2014/11/comment-on-creams-revised-report-the-fiscal-effects-of-immigration-to-the-uk.html

    The BBC of course headlines with the +£4bn line on EU migrants (ignoring those from pre-2001) rather than the -£95bn for all immigrants for the whole period.

    The BBC headlined with the relevant recent migrants figure.

    The floundering anti-imigration frothers have gone for the other figure without realising it's talking about the impact from all non UK born in the specified period regardless when they immigrated (and hence their initial contribution which may have been made in the 60s, 70s or 80s)!

    The Telegraph got caught out with its pants down on this point yesterday when trying to link that passage to migration under Labour - although those migrants may have come here decades before.
    BenM: if you remove the link with immigration during the post-1997 period, isn't the point the same i.e. that the report shows that the economic impact of all immigrants is a minus figure?

    A genuine question btw. I haven't had the time to read the report.
    I think the point it made was that immigration from the EU has been generally very good for the country, and immigration from outside the EU had not been. Given the extreme variability of non-EU immigration (American hedge fund managers plus illiterate third world'ers), it would suggest the correct thing to do would be clamp down on third world immigration, but leave the doors open to our European breatheren.

    What about illiterate third worlders who've been allowed into the EU and therefore have the right to settle in Britain? It's not all hardworking Polish plumbers you know.

    The bottom line is we need control. There is no other sensible way forward.

  • Indigo said:

    The parameters of the study are mostly narrow, the calculations full of broad unsubstantiated assumptions and the conclusions mostly bollocks, and presented over the timeframe needed to give the biggest headline impact they can to suit the agenda of the study sponsors.

    That sounds like the climate change debate in a nutshell

    I'll get my coat :)

    I have a scientific and engineering background. There is no doubt in my mind that AGW is real and happening, but the global warming lobby have alienated huge numbers of those on the centre-right by (a) trying to link it intrinsicably to an anti-capitalist and eco-socialist agenda, one they couldn't otherwise get away with advocating seriously. And (b) claiming there's no economic alternative to trying to totally stop it in its tracks *now* (unrealistic) rather than gradually shifting our energy use and production, and invest in human adaption to it to mitigate its effects in the meantime.

    It's hardly surprising, therefore, that they invite an entire wing of the political spectrum to disagree with them when they adopt that approach.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    BenM said:

    So Labour's 2004 decision to not impose restrictions on citizens from the A8 countries was enormously beneficial to the country economically with few social issues. End of story in that regard.

    On the politics however it was also beneficial to the non thinking Right, which has used immigration to spread unwarranted fear and bash Labour ever since. Labour did not help themselves in that regard, basically dancing to the same tune under a spineless Tony Blair.

    The facts are on Labour's side.

    The screaming fact free hysteria benefits the Tories and UKIP though.

    You realise the economy is broader than taxes and benefits right? I know that might be hard for left wing "the state = society" people.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    Anorak said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @isam, @TSE

    What bad joke am I being accused of cracking?

    How about this one guys:

    At the British Women's Conference, the first speaker from Bristol stood up:
    "At last year's conference we spoke about being more assertive with our husbands. Well after the conference I went home and told my husband that I would no longer cook for him and that he would have to do it himself. After the first day I saw nothing. After the second day I saw nothing. But after the third day I saw that he had cooked a wonderful roast lamb."

    The crowd cheered.

    The second speaker from Hammersmith stood up:
    "After last year's conference I went home and told my husband that I would no longer do his laundry and that he would have to do it himself. After the first day I saw nothing. After the second day I saw nothing. But after the third day I saw that he had done not only his own washing but my washing as well."

    The crowd cheered.

    The third speaker from Rochester stood up:
    "After last year's conference I went home and told my husband that I would no longer do his shopping and that he would have to do it himself. After the first day I saw nothing. After the second day I saw nothing. But after the third day I could see a little bit out of my left eye."

    The Oscar Pistorious shooting your load over your girlfriend one.

    I liked it.

    But PB's Mary Whitehouse is a bit upset over it
    If both you and Isam are going to Dirty Dicks, I might make a special effort to come and watch. Both of you will be bringing your special battle-handbags, I presume?
    I'll be bringing my 600 quid Louis Vuitton man bag to Dirty Dicks.

    Nothing says I'm a flaming member of the multicultural metropolitan elite than that.

    I'm sure kippers will love it.
    Eyes will be swivelling, as they assume Chuka has arrived at the party.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited November 2014

    Is this Laurence person really a UKIP candidate? If so, time he was chopped -his comment was nasty and not constructive. I don't mind someone breaking the rules of PC, but only in the cause of truth, not to be mean-spirited.

    Of course he isn't a candidate... just a random on twitter
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    OGH at number 9:

    http://uk.labs.teads.tv/top-blogs/search/politics

    Blog ranking based on the score calculated by Teads which considers various numerous parameters including the number of backlinks, the number of shares of its articles on Facebook and Twitter

    Less influential than Wings over Somerset.

    If there was any doubt..
    http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2014/10/05/what-the-rochester-poll-would-look-like-without-the-2010-non-voters/

    I think this particular entry is going to become a classic. (3rd on the top post link apparently)
    Haha

    TSE snapped at me yesterday that he had said UKIP were the value in Rochester!

    "14/1 on Labour winning the by-election looks very tasty, in light of the above, but I think most of my money today will be going on a Tory hold."

    What a joker
    Except I had.

    You've tipped up all the horses :o), and "most of my money today" on a 3-1 shot kind of implies a book of something like

    10 unit 11-10 UKIP
    10 unit 3-1 Con
    1.5 unit 14-1 Labour

    -0.5 UKIP
    +19 Con
    -0.5 Labour

    Which has a fair value of around £0.00

    "Pile on UKIP at 11-10, and cover Con and Lab to stakes at 3-1 and 14-1" giving something like

    20 units UKIP 11-10
    8 units Con 3-1
    2 units Lab 14-1

    Would have been good advice OTOH...

    He is clueless about betting
    He knows more than some others of this parish - if I bet at 6-4 does that mean that i'll win if... ^_~
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    rcs1000 said:

    MikeK said:

    @rcs1000

    Do you mean to say that only one husband objected? Heavens what are we coming too.

    The joke was amusing though.

    A Conservative supporter was walking along the banks of the Thames in East London deep in prayer. All of a sudden he said out loud, "God, grant me one wish." Suddenly the sky clouded above his head and in a booming voice the God said, "Because you have had the faith to ask, I will grant you one wish." The man said, "Wow. That's amazing; what I would love is a bridge from Rotherhithe to Wapping, so as to ease the awful congestion."

    God said, "Your request is very materialistic. Think of the logistics of that kind of undertaking. The concrete and steel it would take! I can do it, but it is hard for me to justify your desire for worldly things. Take a little more time and think of another wish, a wish you think would honor and glorify me."

    The Conservative supporter thought for a long time. Finally he said, "God, all my friends are voting UKIP. Just let me know: what does David Cameron need to do to be loved by these Kippers?"

    After a few minutes God said, "You want two lanes or four on that bridge?"
    Amen to that.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Indigo said:

    The parameters of the study are mostly narrow, the calculations full of broad unsubstantiated assumptions and the conclusions mostly bollocks, and presented over the timeframe needed to give the biggest headline impact they can to suit the agenda of the study sponsors.

    That sounds like the climate change debate in a nutshell

    I'll get my coat :)

    I have a scientific and engineering background. There is no doubt in my mind that AGW is real and happening, but the global warming lobby have alienated huge numbers of those on the centre-right by (a) trying to link it intrinsicably to an anti-capitalist and eco-socialist agenda, one they couldn't otherwise get away with advocating seriously. And (b) claiming there's no economic alternative to trying to totally stop it in its tracks *now* (unrealistic) rather than gradually shifting our energy use and production, and invest in human adaption to it to mitigate its effects in the meantime.

    It's hardly surprising, therefore, that they invite an entire wing of the political spectrum to disagree with them when they adopt that approach.
    What an excellent post.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014

    DavidL said:

    Tapestry said:

    OGH at number 9:

    http://uk.labs.teads.tv/top-blogs/search/politics

    Blog ranking based on the score calculated by Teads which considers various numerous parameters including the number of backlinks, the number of shares of its articles on Facebook and Twitter

    The Tap got into the top 40 political blogs a few times, then it was chopped from the list. Anyone who really takes on the system is made invisible in the rankings. I wondered how long our rankings presence would last. Once you blog that 9/11 is false flag, you become invisible. I wonder if comments on here can be made invisible other than to the commenter. There is software like that around.....

    Tapestry, why are all your posts blank?
    Who?
    Quiet minion, and bow down to your lizard overlord, or else the secret weather weapon will be aimed in your general direction.
    Looking outside that may have happened already. Remarkable.
  • Tapestry said:

    OGH at number 9:

    http://uk.labs.teads.tv/top-blogs/search/politics

    Blog ranking based on the score calculated by Teads which considers various numerous parameters including the number of backlinks, the number of shares of its articles on Facebook and Twitter

    The Tap got into the top 40 political blogs a few times, then it was chopped from the list. Anyone who really takes on the system is made invisible in the rankings. I wondered how long our rankings presence would last. Once you blog that 9/11 is false flag, you become invisible. I wonder if comments on here can be made invisible other than to the commenter. There is software like that around.....

    Tapestry, why are all your posts blank?
    He's been actively censored by the Government and the Free Masons.

    *innocent face*
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Big joke, so why the complaints?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29921797

    Have seen 'amusing' tweets about car registrations, detective work with SNP hashtag etc - there are some with brain cells in mint condition out there.

    Salmond is just another bumptious prick whose bubble has burst.

  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    isam said:

    Is this Laurence person really a UKIP candidate? If so, time he was chopped -his comment was nasty and not constructive. I don't mind someone breaking the rules of PC, but only in the cause of truth, not to be mean-spirited.

    Of course he isn't a candidate... just a random on twitter
    They always are.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Anorak said:

    Indigo said:

    The parameters of the study are mostly narrow, the calculations full of broad unsubstantiated assumptions and the conclusions mostly bollocks, and presented over the timeframe needed to give the biggest headline impact they can to suit the agenda of the study sponsors.

    That sounds like the climate change debate in a nutshell

    I'll get my coat :)

    I have a scientific and engineering background. There is no doubt in my mind that AGW is real and happening, but the global warming lobby have alienated huge numbers of those on the centre-right by (a) trying to link it intrinsicably to an anti-capitalist and eco-socialist agenda, one they couldn't otherwise get away with advocating seriously. And (b) claiming there's no economic alternative to trying to totally stop it in its tracks *now* (unrealistic) rather than gradually shifting our energy use and production, and invest in human adaption to it to mitigate its effects in the meantime.

    It's hardly surprising, therefore, that they invite an entire wing of the political spectrum to disagree with them when they adopt that approach.
    What an excellent post.
    Yes that sums up the AGW situation quite handily. It is happening, but the needs of people to keep their heating on at a reasonable price are a very important consideration too.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821
    isam said:

    Is this Laurence person really a UKIP candidate? If so, time he was chopped -his comment was nasty and not constructive. I don't mind someone breaking the rules of PC, but only in the cause of truth, not to be mean-spirited.

    Of course he isn't a candidate... just a random on twitter
    Looks to me like a troll trying to make UKIP look bad then.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    chestnut said:

    From October: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ukips-nigel-farage-ill-offer-4422291

    "But if Mr Miliband was PM in a minority Labour ­government, Mr Farage would use his MPs’ votes to keep him there."

    Hardly a shock when he is trying to pull in Labour waverers. It also doesn't say what he would ask for in return, presumably a straight in/out referendum on a short timescale, which Mili wouldn't give him, leaving him free to walk away anytime he feels like it, and attracts Labour waverers in the mean time.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    Indigo said:

    The parameters of the study are mostly narrow, the calculations full of broad unsubstantiated assumptions and the conclusions mostly bollocks, and presented over the timeframe needed to give the biggest headline impact they can to suit the agenda of the study sponsors.

    That sounds like the climate change debate in a nutshell

    I'll get my coat :)

    I have a scientific and engineering background. There is no doubt in my mind that AGW is real and happening, but the global warming lobby have alienated huge numbers of those on the centre-right by (a) trying to link it intrinsicably to an anti-capitalist and eco-socialist agenda, one they couldn't otherwise get away with advocating seriously. And (b) claiming there's no economic alternative to trying to totally stop it in its tracks *now* (unrealistic) rather than gradually shifting our energy use and production, and invest in human adaption to it to mitigate its effects in the meantime.

    It's hardly surprising, therefore, that they invite an entire wing of the political spectrum to disagree with them when they adopt that approach.
    Most of the no betting posts are partisan handbag slinging or vacuous retweets - rarely does a post so concisely sum up a contentious situation in an even handed and excellent manner such as this:

    Post of the Year in my opinion.
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795

    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    BenM said:

    Socrates said:

    Here's the full Migration Watch response to that dishonest CREAM report:

    http://news.migrationwatch.org.uk/2014/11/comment-on-creams-revised-report-the-fiscal-effects-of-immigration-to-the-uk.html

    The BBC of course headlines with the +£4bn line on EU migrants (ignoring those from pre-2001) rather than the -£95bn for all immigrants for the whole period.

    The BBC headlined with the relevant recent migrants figure.

    The floundering anti-imigration frothers have gone for the other figure without realising it's talking about the impact from all non UK born in the specified period regardless when they immigrated (and hence their initial contribution which may have been made in the 60s, 70s or 80s)!

    The Telegraph got caught out with its pants down on this point yesterday when trying to link that passage to migration under Labour - although those migrants may have come here decades before.
    BenM: if you remove the link with immigration during the post-1997 period, isn't the point the same i.e. that the report shows that the economic impact of all immigrants is a minus figure?

    A genuine question btw. I haven't had the time to read the report.
    I think the point it made was that immigration from the EU has been generally very good for the country, and immigration from outside the EU had not been. Given the extreme variability of non-EU immigration (American hedge fund managers plus illiterate third world'ers), it would suggest the correct thing to do would be clamp down on third world immigration, but leave the doors open to our European breatheren.

    What about illiterate third worlders who've been allowed into the EU and therefore have the right to settle in Britain? It's not all hardworking Polish plumbers you know.

    The bottom line is we need control. There is no other sensible way forward.

    Talk about picking out niff naff and trivia. The facts don't support the hysterical anti-immigration case regardless of consituent elements.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited November 2014
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    OGH at number 9:

    http://uk.labs.teads.tv/top-blogs/search/politics

    Blog ranking based on the score calculated by Teads which considers various numerous parameters including the number of backlinks, the number of shares of its articles on Facebook and Twitter

    Less influential than Wings over Somerset.

    If there was any doubt..
    http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2014/10/05/what-the-rochester-poll-would-look-like-without-the-2010-non-voters/

    I think this particular entry is going to become a classic. (3rd on the top post link apparently)
    Haha

    TSE snapped at me yesterday that he had said UKIP were the value in Rochester!

    "14/1 on Labour winning the by-election looks very tasty, in light of the above, but I think most of my money today will be going on a Tory hold."

    What a joker
    Except I had.

    You've tipped up all the horses :o), and "most of my money today" on a 3-1 shot kind of implies a book of something like

    10 unit 11-10 UKIP
    10 unit 3-1 Con
    1.5 unit 14-1 Labour

    -0.5 UKIP
    +19 Con
    -0.5 Labour

    Which has a fair value of around £0.00

    "Pile on UKIP at 11-10, and cover Con and Lab to stakes at 3-1 and 14-1" giving something like

    20 units UKIP 11-10
    8 units Con 3-1
    2 units Lab 14-1

    Would have been good advice OTOH...

    He is clueless about betting
    He knows more than some others of this parish - if I bet at 6-4 does that mean that i'll win if... ^_~
    Hmm I'll pass on that

    Nate Silver said it "The Signal & The Noise"... v noisy on here
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366

    Three football supporters go into a church and God appears to them.

    "Gosh," says the Arsenal supporter (as they do). "If you're God," he asks. "You know everything. When will Arsenal next win the Premiership?"

    "In the year, 2067." says God.

    "That's no good," says the Gooner. "I'll be dead by then."

    The Liverpool supporter asks the same question about Liverpool.

    "In the year, 2088," says God.

    ""That's no good," says the Scouser. "I'll be dead by then."

    The Tottenham supporter asks the same question about Spurs.

    "I don't know," says God. "I'll be dead by then."
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    Socrates said:

    BenM said:

    So Labour's 2004 decision to not impose restrictions on citizens from the A8 countries was enormously beneficial to the country economically with few social issues. End of story in that regard.

    On the politics however it was also beneficial to the non thinking Right, which has used immigration to spread unwarranted fear and bash Labour ever since. Labour did not help themselves in that regard, basically dancing to the same tune under a spineless Tony Blair.

    The facts are on Labour's side.

    The screaming fact free hysteria benefits the Tories and UKIP though.

    You realise the economy is broader than taxes and benefits right? I know that might be hard for left wing "the state = society" people.
    You do realise that taxes and benefits reflect the state of the underlying economy right?
  • Bloody hell - Am I reading this right.

    Ed Miliband is doing worse now, than Gordon Brown was in 2009?

    http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/fkwiozqgyy/SunResults_141105_leaders_and_next_election_Website.pdf
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795

    Indigo said:

    The parameters of the study are mostly narrow, the calculations full of broad unsubstantiated assumptions and the conclusions mostly bollocks, and presented over the timeframe needed to give the biggest headline impact they can to suit the agenda of the study sponsors.

    That sounds like the climate change debate in a nutshell

    I'll get my coat :)

    I have a scientific and engineering background. There is no doubt in my mind that AGW is real and happening, but the global warming lobby have alienated huge numbers of those on the centre-right by (a) trying to link it intrinsicably to an anti-capitalist and eco-socialist agenda, one they couldn't otherwise get away with advocating seriously. And (b) claiming there's no economic alternative to trying to totally stop it in its tracks *now* (unrealistic) rather than gradually shifting our energy use and production, and invest in human adaption to it to mitigate its effects in the meantime.

    It's hardly surprising, therefore, that they invite an entire wing of the political spectrum to disagree with them when they adopt that approach.
    Oh please.

    There's this massive issue, ie. AGW, but let's ignore it or tiptoe around it so as not to upset the emotionally fragile right wing!
  • Scott_P said:

    @GeorgeMonbiot: Here's my prediction. Unless @UKLabour swerves sharply away from austerity and neoliberalism, by 2025 it'll have less than 10 seats.

    ...and if they do swerve sharply away while in office the country will be bankrupt in short order...


    The economic facts of life are somewhat Darwinian.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    BenM said:

    So Labour's 2004 decision to not impose restrictions on citizens from the A8 countries was enormously beneficial to the country economically with few social issues. End of story in that regard.

    On the politics however it was also beneficial to the non thinking Right, which has used immigration to spread unwarranted fear and bash Labour ever since. Labour did not help themselves in that regard, basically dancing to the same tune under a spineless Tony Blair.

    The facts are on Labour's side.

    The screaming fact free hysteria benefits the Tories and UKIP though.

    Ben,

    When I started my history degree my tutor hammered home the lesson that when looking at a source document one must always consider:

    1. When it was written - in relation the events it relates to?

    2. Who wrote it- what do we know about the author, their standpoint in relation to the subject in hand?

    3. Who was it written for - who was the intended audience?

    4. Why was it written - what was the author hoping to achieve?

    unless one considers at least those four questions then one can easily be misled as to the value of a document in describing an event or, worse mistake, political polemic for history.

    I mention this as you may find applying the lesson beneficial. All the best.

  • BenM said:

    So Labour's 2004 decision to not impose restrictions on citizens from the A8 countries was enormously beneficial to the country economically with few social issues. End of story in that regard.

    On the politics however it was also benefical to the non thinking Right, which has used immigration to spread unwarranted fear and bash Labour ever since. Labour did not help themselves in that regard, basically dancing to the same tune under a spineless Tony Blair.

    The facts are on Labour's side.

    The screaming fact free hysteria benefits the Tories and UKIP though.

    You are referring to the immigration report right?

    If so you do realise that it was written by the same bloke that proclaimed in 2004 that immigration from Eastern European countries would be very low, maybe 13,000 a year?

    Not very bright is he?
  • Bloody hell - Am I reading this right.

    Ed Miliband is doing worse now, than Gordon Brown was in 2009?

    http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/fkwiozqgyy/SunResults_141105_leaders_and_next_election_Website.pdf

    They've also done a wisdom poll in that

    Regardless of how you intend to vote, what do you think is the most LIKELY result of the general election next year?

    Con Maj 14%
    Hung Parliament, with the Tories as the biggest Party 30%
    Hung Parliament, with Lab as the biggest Party 22%
    Lab Maj 9%
    Something else 7%
    DK 16%
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Oyster Cards or contact cards, which is the best way to pay for travel in London?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-29919075
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821
    Norm said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @Ishmael_X
    "Dear old Kelly does sound a teeny bit vacuous there"

    Possibly, but as there is at the moment a Sikh festival, where it is incumbent on them to feed all the poor ( including non Sikh's), perhaps she could be forgiven for being inclusive?

    The Sikh (and indeed the Indian) community has been in the Medway towns and in North West Kent for a long time. The original comment from Ukiper "Laurence" is highly offensive. I'm no social liberal myself but his remark is blatantly racist and sadly indicative of some of the Ukip hangers-on. Kelly is actually doing well and I'll be interested to see the next R & S poll.
    I agree, but what is to stop someone who wishes either to use UKIPs popularity as a vehicle for popularising their own racist views, or someone who wants to make UKIP look bad, from tweeting things like this?
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    isam said:

    Is this Laurence person really a UKIP candidate? If so, time he was chopped -his comment was nasty and not constructive. I don't mind someone breaking the rules of PC, but only in the cause of truth, not to be mean-spirited.

    Of course he isn't a candidate... just a random on twitter
    He appears to live in Belfast, and according to his tweets he doesn't like the DUP because they are not right wing enough...
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173
    BenM said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    BenM said:

    Socrates said:

    Here's the full Migration Watch response to that dishonest CREAM report:

    http://news.migrationwatch.org.uk/2014/11/comment-on-creams-revised-report-the-fiscal-effects-of-immigration-to-the-uk.html

    The BBC of course headlines with the +£4bn line on EU migrants (ignoring those from pre-2001) rather than the -£95bn for all immigrants for the whole period.

    The BBC headlined with the relevant recent migrants figure.

    The floundering anti-imigration frothers have gone for the other figure without realising it's talking about the impact from all non UK born in the specified period regardless when they immigrated (and hence their initial contribution which may have been made in the 60s, 70s or 80s)!

    The Telegraph got caught out with its pants down on this point yesterday when trying to link that passage to migration under Labour - although those migrants may have come here decades before.
    BenM: if you remove the link with immigration during the post-1997 period, isn't the point the same i.e. that the report shows that the economic impact of all immigrants is a minus figure?

    A genuine question btw. I haven't had the time to read the report.
    I think the point it made was that immigration from the EU has been generally very good for the country, and immigration from outside the EU had not been. Given the extreme variability of non-EU immigration (American hedge fund managers plus illiterate third world'ers), it would suggest the correct thing to do would be clamp down on third world immigration, but leave the doors open to our European breatheren.

    What about illiterate third worlders who've been allowed into the EU and therefore have the right to settle in Britain? It's not all hardworking Polish plumbers you know.

    The bottom line is we need control. There is no other sensible way forward.

    Talk about picking out niff naff and trivia. The facts don't support the hysterical anti-immigration case regardless of consituent elements.
    It's really important for Ed to keep pushing the proEU/immigration line - We're with you all the way there BenM.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @LabourList: UCATT endorse Findlay and Clark in Scottish leadership contest http://labli.st/1s8H6S3
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821
    Indigo said:

    isam said:

    Is this Laurence person really a UKIP candidate? If so, time he was chopped -his comment was nasty and not constructive. I don't mind someone breaking the rules of PC, but only in the cause of truth, not to be mean-spirited.

    Of course he isn't a candidate... just a random on twitter
    He appears to live in Belfast, and according to his tweets he doesn't like the DUP because they are not right wing enough...
    Quite invested in 'vote Reckless' for someone not even on the same landmass.
  • Seumas Milne seems no more impressed with Labour's present direction than George Monbiot:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/06/centre-austerity-britain-europe-ireland-spain-eu

    And he delivers a special side order of misery for Scottish Labour as well:

    "The answer for Labour, you might think, is obvious: break with the New Labour timidity that created the space for the SNP, put the interests of working-class voters who backed independence centre stage, and embrace the progressive mood in the country. One of the candidates standing to lead Labour in Scotland, the Edinburgh parliamentarian Neil Findlay, wants to do just that – and put “clear red water” between Labour and the SNP. But the establishment and media favourite Jim Murphy – the austerity and Iraq war enthusiast who championed campaigning for a no vote in harness with the Tories – wants a return to tried-and-failed Blairite formulas.

    That would seal Labour’s fate in Scotland – and possibly the rest of Britain, for that matter. Ed Miliband won Labour’s leadership making clear he understood the failure of the economic model and public revulsion at the elites. When he’s turned that into popular policy, as he did last autumn by promising to crack down on the energy cartels, Labour support has surged. But when Labour’s leaders cling to Treasury orthodoxy and drift back towards New Labour tinkering, the numbers slide and Miliband’s media-inflated quirks take centre stage. The lesson from across Europe is there are no political prizes for embracing austerity – it spells failure in opposition and disintegration in government."
  • Dr. Spyn, sad to see both that the effigies of Salmond were withdrawn due to shrieking protest, and that the police are investigating.

    The police, of course, who routinely don't have the resources to investigate actual crime.

    Mr. Isam, I'd beg to differ. Nothing wrong with having a joke about blonde men, inverting the usual dumb blonde joke by swapping genders. Similarly, there's nothing wrong with a whacking off joke about women rather than men.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    edited November 2014
    BenM said:

    spineless Tony Blair

    Spineless ?

    Doubt that is the pejorative adjective I would use to describe Mr Blair.

    Shameless, evil, mendacious, conniving, narcissistic perhaps... but definitely not spineless.
  • Bloody hell - Am I reading this right.

    Ed Miliband is doing worse now, than Gordon Brown was in 2009?

    http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/fkwiozqgyy/SunResults_141105_leaders_and_next_election_Website.pdf

    They've also done a wisdom poll in that

    Regardless of how you intend to vote, what do you think is the most LIKELY result of the general election next year?

    Con Maj 14%
    Hung Parliament, with the Tories as the biggest Party 30%
    Hung Parliament, with Lab as the biggest Party 22%
    Lab Maj 9%
    Something else 7%
    DK 16%
    The most extraordinary pair of results in that poll for me concern Nigel Farage:

    Do you think that Nigel Farage is doing well or badly as leader of the UK Independence Party?

    TOTAL WELL 55
    TOTAL BADLY 25


    And regardless of what you think the most likely result is, do you think the following would or would not be up to job of Prime Minister?

    Nigel Farage
    Would be up to the job of Prime Minister 15
    Would not be up to the job of Prime Minister 61
    Not sure 24

    Make of that pair of answers what you will.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Dr. Spyn, sad to see both that the effigies of Salmond were withdrawn due to shrieking protest, and that the police are investigating.

    The police, of course, who routinely don't have the resources to investigate actual crime.

    Mr. Isam, I'd beg to differ. Nothing wrong with having a joke about blonde men, inverting the usual dumb blonde joke by swapping genders. Similarly, there's nothing wrong with a whacking off joke about women rather than men.

    Doesn't work for me but as we have seen this morning, humour is subjective
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    19% of people now think that Ed is up to the job of being PM. 54% of current Labour voters. If that is not a soft vote liable to crumbing in the election campaign I really don't know what is.

    Either his numbers get a lot better or Labour will lose. Its too late to get someone else now.
  • BenM said:

    Socrates said:

    BenM said:

    So Labour's 2004 decision to not impose restrictions on citizens from the A8 countries was enormously beneficial to the country economically with few social issues. End of story in that regard.

    On the politics however it was also beneficial to the non thinking Right, which has used immigration to spread unwarranted fear and bash Labour ever since. Labour did not help themselves in that regard, basically dancing to the same tune under a spineless Tony Blair.

    The facts are on Labour's side.

    The screaming fact free hysteria benefits the Tories and UKIP though.

    You realise the economy is broader than taxes and benefits right? I know that might be hard for left wing "the state = society" people.
    You do realise that taxes and benefits reflect the state of the underlying economy right?
    Agreed. Crippling taxes and as many people as possible on benefits is a sign the economy is booming.
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795

    BenM said:

    So Labour's 2004 decision to not impose restrictions on citizens from the A8 countries was enormously beneficial to the country economically with few social issues. End of story in that regard.

    On the politics however it was also benefical to the non thinking Right, which has used immigration to spread unwarranted fear and bash Labour ever since. Labour did not help themselves in that regard, basically dancing to the same tune under a spineless Tony Blair.

    The facts are on Labour's side.

    The screaming fact free hysteria benefits the Tories and UKIP though.

    You are referring to the immigration report right?

    If so you do realise that it was written by the same bloke that proclaimed in 2004 that immigration from Eastern European countries would be very low, maybe 13,000 a year?

    Not very bright is he?
    You understand the qualitative difference between a 'prediction' and an analysis of historical data right?

    Not understanding this fundamental difference rather calls your own intelligence into question does it not?

    And not forgetting that 13k forecast was based on assumption ALL countries would open their borders. In the event only the UK, Ireland and Sweden did.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21682810
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821
    BenM said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    BenM said:

    Socrates said:

    Here's the full Migration Watch response to that dishonest CREAM report:

    http://news.migrationwatch.org.uk/2014/11/comment-on-creams-revised-report-the-fiscal-effects-of-immigration-to-the-uk.html

    The BBC of course headlines with the +£4bn line on EU migrants (ignoring those from pre-2001) rather than the -£95bn for all immigrants for the whole period.

    The BBC headlined with the relevant recent migrants figure.

    The floundering anti-imigration frothers have gone for the other figure without realising it's talking about the impact from all non UK born in the specified period regardless when they immigrated (and hence their initial contribution which may have been made in the 60s, 70s or 80s)!

    The Telegraph got caught out with its pants down on this point yesterday when trying to link that passage to migration under Labour - although those migrants may have come here decades before.
    BenM: if you remove the link with immigration during the post-1997 period, isn't the point the same i.e. that the report shows that the economic impact of all immigrants is a minus figure?

    A genuine question btw. I haven't had the time to read the report.
    I think the point it made was that immigration from the EU has been generally very good for the country, and immigration from outside the EU had not been. Given the extreme variability of non-EU immigration (American hedge fund managers plus illiterate third world'ers), it would suggest the correct thing to do would be clamp down on third world immigration, but leave the doors open to our European breatheren.

    What about illiterate third worlders who've been allowed into the EU and therefore have the right to settle in Britain? It's not all hardworking Polish plumbers you know.

    The bottom line is we need control. There is no other sensible way forward.

    Talk about picking out niff naff and trivia. The facts don't support the hysterical anti-immigration case regardless of consituent elements.
    I quite agree, we don't need hysteria, we need control. That way if it turns out we need more immigration, we can get it. If we need less we can get it. You can huff and puff but the bottom line is whether pro or anti, having control is the only sensible way forward.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    antifrank said:

    Bloody hell - Am I reading this right.

    Ed Miliband is doing worse now, than Gordon Brown was in 2009?

    http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/fkwiozqgyy/SunResults_141105_leaders_and_next_election_Website.pdf

    They've also done a wisdom poll in that

    Regardless of how you intend to vote, what do you think is the most LIKELY result of the general election next year?

    Con Maj 14%
    Hung Parliament, with the Tories as the biggest Party 30%
    Hung Parliament, with Lab as the biggest Party 22%
    Lab Maj 9%
    Something else 7%
    DK 16%
    The most extraordinary pair of results in that poll for me concern Nigel Farage:

    Do you think that Nigel Farage is doing well or badly as leader of the UK Independence Party?

    TOTAL WELL 55
    TOTAL BADLY 25


    And regardless of what you think the most likely result is, do you think the following would or would not be up to job of Prime Minister?

    Nigel Farage
    Would be up to the job of Prime Minister 15
    Would not be up to the job of Prime Minister 61
    Not sure 24

    Make of that pair of answers what you will.
    My partner's mother thinks Farage is doing an excellent job but would never ever vote for him, and would certainly not like to see him as Prime Minister.

    OTOH I think Ed Miliband is doing a poor job as Labour Leader but would probably do a passable job as PM.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    antifrank said:

    Bloody hell - Am I reading this right.

    Ed Miliband is doing worse now, than Gordon Brown was in 2009?

    http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/fkwiozqgyy/SunResults_141105_leaders_and_next_election_Website.pdf

    They've also done a wisdom poll in that

    Regardless of how you intend to vote, what do you think is the most LIKELY result of the general election next year?

    Con Maj 14%
    Hung Parliament, with the Tories as the biggest Party 30%
    Hung Parliament, with Lab as the biggest Party 22%
    Lab Maj 9%
    Something else 7%
    DK 16%
    The most extraordinary pair of results in that poll for me concern Nigel Farage:

    Do you think that Nigel Farage is doing well or badly as leader of the UK Independence Party?

    TOTAL WELL 55
    TOTAL BADLY 25


    And regardless of what you think the most likely result is, do you think the following would or would not be up to job of Prime Minister?

    Nigel Farage
    Would be up to the job of Prime Minister 15
    Would not be up to the job of Prime Minister 61
    Not sure 24

    Make of that pair of answers what you will.
    Maybe that being the leader of a protest party requires a different skill set to being PM and that Nigel is rather good at the former and not particularly interested in the latter? I think I would be with the majority in both cases here.
  • Indeed, Mr. Isam, it's very subjective. Makes trying to assess your own jokes rather tricky.
  • One of my favourites from the PB archive of jokes.
    A frog goes into a bank and approaches the teller. He can see from her nameplate that her name is Patricia Whack.
    'Miss Whack, I'd like to get a £30,000 loan to take a holiday.'
    Patty looks at the frog in disbelief and asks his name. The frog says his name is Kermit Jagger, his dad is Mick Jagger, and that it's okay, he knows the bank manager.
    Patty explains that he will need to secure the loan with some collateral.
    The frog says, 'Sure. I have this' and produces a tiny porcelain elephant, about an inch tall, bright pink and perfectly formed.
    Very confused, Patty explains that she'll have to consult with the bank manager and disappears into a back office.
    She finds the manager and says 'There's a frog called Kermit Jagger out there who claims to know you and wants to borrow £30,000 and he wants to use this as collateral.'
    She holds up the tiny pink elephant. 'I mean, what in the world is this?'
    The bank manager looks back at her and says...
    .....'It's a knickknack, Patty Whack. Give the frog a loan. His old man's a Rolling Stone.'
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    antifrank said:

    Seumas Milne seems no more impressed with Labour's present direction than George Monbiot:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/06/centre-austerity-britain-europe-ireland-spain-eu

    ... and embrace the progressive mood in the country....

    What is he smoking. The progressive consensus always was fantasyland, and when people are tightening their belts and worrying about the economic realities, they tend to become even more (small c) conservative than usual. I think most people are less concerned that things get better than they are that things dont get any worse, and those are tough times to sell a radical policy program. The reason Farage is winning hearts and minds is because he is proposing a program of (small c) conservatism, which appeals to fearful WWC and elderly voters, and disaffected Conservatives that feel their party is too liberal and to detached from their everyday life. Its the whole "understands people like us" issue.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    DavidL said:

    Either his numbers get a lot better or Labour will lose. Its too late to get someone else now.

    Shadow cabinet ministers admitted fears that backbenchers were circulating a letter asking the Labour leader to stand aside for the good of the party. Challenging Mr Miliband’s critics to “put up or shut up”, a loyalist said: “Let’s see if they’ve got the names or not.”

    One Labour insider suggested that Douglas Alexander, who is in charge of the manifesto, had been “whacked”, though last night he remained in charge of the campaign’s strategy.
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4259031.ece

    I think Wee Dougie might be quite happy now he is no longer the only name in the frame for Labours crushing defeat
  • PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    BenM - I asked Polish carers I know if a restriction of benefits for 3 years would hurt them. They said the early entrants came to work, as they did, but the later Poles come for the benefits and the UK is mad to allow it. Perhaps you are not up to date.
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Indigo said:

    chestnut said:

    From October: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ukips-nigel-farage-ill-offer-4422291

    "But if Mr Miliband was PM in a minority Labour ­government, Mr Farage would use his MPs’ votes to keep him there."

    Hardly a shock when he is trying to pull in Labour waverers. It also doesn't say what he would ask for in return, presumably a straight in/out referendum on a short timescale, which Mili wouldn't give him, leaving him free to walk away anytime he feels like it, and attracts Labour waverers in the mean time.
    UKIP had better hope that they DONT hold the balance of power as they don't really want to have power at this time.
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047
    So the Tories, it's biggest defender, get screwed by FPTP. Justice at last!
  • RobCRobC Posts: 398
    DavidL said:

    19% of people now think that Ed is up to the job of being PM. 54% of current Labour voters. If that is not a soft vote liable to crumbing in the election campaign I really don't know what is.

    Either his numbers get a lot better or Labour will lose. Its too late to get someone else now.

    That is of course the received wisdom but I notice plotters against Ed within his own election team have recently been reshuffled out. There must be a point where dumping Ed becomes a better option than carrying on regardless even if the GE is only 6 months away.
  • Scott_P said:

    DavidL said:

    Either his numbers get a lot better or Labour will lose. Its too late to get someone else now.

    Shadow cabinet ministers admitted fears that backbenchers were circulating a letter asking the Labour leader to stand aside for the good of the party. Challenging Mr Miliband’s critics to “put up or shut up”, a loyalist said: “Let’s see if they’ve got the names or not.”

    One Labour insider suggested that Douglas Alexander, who is in charge of the manifesto, had been “whacked”, though last night he remained in charge of the campaign’s strategy.
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4259031.ece

    I think Wee Dougie might be quite happy now he is no longer the only name in the frame for Labours crushing defeat

    That consideration doesn't seem to have weighed too heavily with him in the past, considering his existing record of involvement with less-than-successful campaigns.
  • dr_spyn said:

    Big joke, so why the complaints?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29921797

    Have seen 'amusing' tweets about car registrations, detective work with SNP hashtag etc - there are some with brain cells in mint condition out there.

    Salmond is just another bumptious prick whose bubble has burst.

    The second effigy of a kilted Salmond at stool is excellent. In the tradition of Spitting Image. Only the most boring elements could object to this joyous expression of popular sentiment.

  • DavidL said:

    19% of people now think that Ed is up to the job of being PM. 54% of current Labour voters. If that is not a soft vote liable to crumbing in the election campaign I really don't know what is.

    Either his numbers get a lot better or Labour will lose. Its too late to get someone else now.

    I suspect now that Lucy Powell is in charge of Ed’s election campaign, things will change drastically for him – didn’t she tweet her plans to get Ed out and meet the people cause he’s an asset to the party?
  • antifrank said:

    Bloody hell - Am I reading this right.

    Ed Miliband is doing worse now, than Gordon Brown was in 2009?

    http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/fkwiozqgyy/SunResults_141105_leaders_and_next_election_Website.pdf

    They've also done a wisdom poll in that

    Regardless of how you intend to vote, what do you think is the most LIKELY result of the general election next year?

    Con Maj 14%
    Hung Parliament, with the Tories as the biggest Party 30%
    Hung Parliament, with Lab as the biggest Party 22%
    Lab Maj 9%
    Something else 7%
    DK 16%
    The most extraordinary pair of results in that poll for me concern Nigel Farage:

    Do you think that Nigel Farage is doing well or badly as leader of the UK Independence Party?

    TOTAL WELL 55
    TOTAL BADLY 25


    And regardless of what you think the most likely result is, do you think the following would or would not be up to job of Prime Minister?

    Nigel Farage
    Would be up to the job of Prime Minister 15
    Would not be up to the job of Prime Minister 61
    Not sure 24

    Make of that pair of answers what you will.
    Reminds me of that ComRes poll from a few years ago when the public were concurrently in favour and opposed to state regulation of the media.
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    BenM said:

    Socrates said:

    Here's the full Migration Watch response to that dishonest CREAM report:

    http://news.migrationwatch.org.uk/2014/11/comment-on-creams-revised-report-the-fiscal-effects-of-immigration-to-the-uk.html

    The BBC of course headlines with the +£4bn line on EU migrants (ignoring those from pre-2001) rather than the -£95bn for all immigrants for the whole period.

    The BBC headlined with the relevant recent migrants figure.

    The floundering anti-imigration frothers have gone for the other figure without realising it's talking about the impact from all non UK born in the specified period regardless when they immigrated (and hence their initial contribution which may have been made in the 60s, 70s or 80s)!

    The Telegraph got caught out with its pants down on this point yesterday when trying to link that passage to migration under Labour - although those migrants may have come here decades before.
    BenM: if you remove the link with immigration during the post-1997 period, isn't the point the same i.e. that the report shows that the economic impact of all immigrants is a minus figure?

    A genuine question btw. I haven't had the time to read the report.
    I think the point it made was that immigration from the EU has been generally very good for the country, and immigration from outside the EU had not been. Given the extreme variability of non-EU immigration (American hedge fund managers plus illiterate third world'ers), it would suggest the correct thing to do would be clamp down on third world immigration, but leave the doors open to our European breatheren.

    Does the report look at the situation overall or on a year-by-year basis?

    It is just that the demographics of which Europeans migrated to the UK over the years has changed substantially.

    Just wondering.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    OK, if you don't like bad taste, look away now ...

    Three pregnant women at an ante-natal clinic are sitting together and knitting.

    The first one stops knitting and leans over to take a tablet from a bag next to her.
    “What’s that?” the others ask.

    “It’s an iron tablet,” she says. “Stops the baby being born with anaemia.”

    The second one stops knitting and leans over to take a tablet from a bag next to her.
    “What’s that?” the others ask.

    “It’s folic acid,” she says. “Helps prevent NTDs in the baby.”

    The third one stops knitting and leans over to take a tablet from a bag next to her.
    “What’s that?” the others ask.

    “Thalidomide,” she says. “I could never do sleeves.”
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966


    Reminds me of that ComRes poll from a few years ago when the public were concurrently in favour and opposed to state regulation of the media.

    Or indeed almost any budget issues, where the public will simultaneously be in favour of a new spending initiative, but not raising the taxes necessary to pay for it.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    antifrank said:

    >

    The most extraordinary pair of results in that poll for me concern Nigel Farage:

    Do you think that Nigel Farage is doing well or badly as leader of the UK Independence Party?

    TOTAL WELL 55
    TOTAL BADLY 25


    And regardless of what you think the most likely result is, do you think the following would or would not be up to job of Prime Minister?

    Nigel Farage
    Would be up to the job of Prime Minister 15
    Would not be up to the job of Prime Minister 61
    Not sure 24

    Make of that pair of answers what you will.

    Not that extraordinary - the public agree he is doing ok at raising the profile of his fruitcake fringe party but obviously they don't want him anywhere near no 10.

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    weejonnie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    BenM said:

    Socrates said:

    Here's the full Migration Watch response to that dishonest CREAM report:

    http://news.migrationwatch.org.uk/2014/11/comment-on-creams-revised-report-the-fiscal-effects-of-immigration-to-the-uk.html

    The BBC of course headlines with the +£4bn line on EU migrants (ignoring those from pre-2001) rather than the -£95bn for all immigrants for the whole period.

    The BBC headlined with the relevant recent migrants figure.

    The floundering anti-imigration frothers have gone for the other figure without realising it's talking about the impact from all non UK born in the specified period regardless when they immigrated (and hence their initial contribution which may have been made in the 60s, 70s or 80s)!

    The Telegraph got caught out with its pants down on this point yesterday when trying to link that passage to migration under Labour - although those migrants may have come here decades before.
    BenM: if you remove the link with immigration during the post-1997 period, isn't the point the same i.e. that the report shows that the economic impact of all immigrants is a minus figure?

    A genuine question btw. I haven't had the time to read the report.
    I think the point it made was that immigration from the EU has been generally very good for the country, and immigration from outside the EU had not been. Given the extreme variability of non-EU immigration (American hedge fund managers plus illiterate third world'ers), it would suggest the correct thing to do would be clamp down on third world immigration, but leave the doors open to our European breatheren.

    Does the report look at the situation overall or on a year-by-year basis?

    It is just that the demographics of which Europeans migrated to the UK over the years has changed substantially.

    Just wondering.
    I think it does. Will be able to dig it out later.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    edited November 2014
    Ed Miliband, Nick Clegg Gordon Brown/Alex Salmond/Nigel Farage - insert name of detested jumped up humourless party leader of choice.

    David Cameron falls into the sea. He is being dragged out to sea by a rip tide. A young boy dives in to the sea without hesitation, swims out and rescues the drowning man..

    The grateful politician says 'what do you want as a reward for saving my life?'

    The kid answers, 'A state funeral, because when I tell my father about who I have just rescued'...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014

    DavidL said:

    19% of people now think that Ed is up to the job of being PM. 54% of current Labour voters. If that is not a soft vote liable to crumbing in the election campaign I really don't know what is.

    Either his numbers get a lot better or Labour will lose. Its too late to get someone else now.

    I suspect now that Lucy Powell is in charge of Ed’s election campaign, things will change drastically for him – didn’t she tweet her plans to get Ed out and meet the people cause he’s an asset to the party?
    What like Gareth? That went well.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    dr_spyn said:

    Oyster Cards or contact cards, which is the best way to pay for travel in London?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-29919075

    It doesn't affect me as I have a Freedom Pass, as guaranteed by those kindly mayors Boris and Ken, but I'm baffled by TfL's decision to encourage people to move away from their "house" Oyster card to the contactless cards, which presumably charge TfL for the privilege. If there was some huge demand from customers to switch it might be different, but everyone seemed perfectly happy with Oyster.

    It's the second odd TfL decision - the other is the actively anti-tourist policy of refusing to take cash. If you're a tourist arriving late in the evening and finding that the bus driver turns you off and tells you to find a Tube station to buy a card, it must be really tough (I've seen this happen to a poor soul with two big suitcases). Perhaps the two things are linked and tourists have contactless cards, but I don't think so?
This discussion has been closed.