Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why CON could still be losing seats to LAB even if its mana

245

Comments

  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,972
    IA

    " A truly astonishing remark from a PR man! See also David Herdson's comment [8.34am] with which I agree wholeheartedly."

    Made me laugh!
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,704
    Financier said:

    Jonathan said:

    Financier said:

    Jonathan said:

    Financier said:

    I had the joy this morning of waking to hear a Labour MP burbling on about Fatcha and pit closures.

    The great irony being from her first day as PM to her last Thatcher's government subsidised the mining industry with taxpayers money.

    Now how much money did the last Labour government give to coal mining ?

    This is a great illustration of the paucity of Labour thinking which results in policies suitable for the last quarter of the 20th century instead of the 2020s.

    The world has moved on and is moving on at a greater speed and Labour and the unions have to realise that the game has changed markedly and Western Europe is playing (not very well) catch up with Asia.

    We have to change our game, work a lot harder, become more aspirational and reward ourselves less - the world does not owe us a living and will not continue to lend us money to enable us to live in the way we have become accustomed. No doubt shouts of Not Fair will arise from the ranks of Labour and the LibDems, but it is either adapt or die.
    What are you going to give up and how are you going to work harder?
    I do our emails from the Far East at about 5am and am in the office from 7am to about 7pm and regularly work many weekends growing the business outside of he EU.

    What do you do?
    I do lots of lovely things, but you said that we all have to work harder and make sacrifices. So the obvious question is what are YOU prepared to do to meet your own request. Or are you somehow special?



    You do lovely things, are you retired or just modest - We have upped our business development and few staff have a regular weekend off. Nobody has had a pay rise for the last 7 years.

    So what are you prepared to do? Please reveal all.
    Again, you seem to be talking about other people and in the past. You called for people to work harder and make sacrfices. What are you going to change?

    Personally, I think most people work very hard and -- like you - don't have much scope to work harder. So I don't think your request is all that meaningful.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Todays BJESUS

    28.10.14 LAB 322 (327) CON 269(265) LD 33(33) UKIP 2(1) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM)
    Last weeks BJESUS in brackets
    BJESUS (Big John Election Service Uniform Swing)
    Using current polling adjusted for 191 days left to go factor and using UKPR standard swingometer
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,952
    Mr. Jessop, I did not see that. Just how good is CFD, though?

    I've done the F1 piece but I'll give it a decent look before posting, given it's complicated and there's legal wrangling involved.
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    Sean_F said:

    You can't have a leader whose ratings are at -45% without dragging down your vote share eventually.

    ...and getting worse!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    felix said:

    Miliband and Labour also consistently uses the wrong tactics - like yesterday's silly focus on when we knew about the EU Bill when what was needed was a clear line against the EU. A fault also repeated on here by the UKIP trolls.

    Haha

    Ed exposed Dave for the deceitful spin merchant he is, get over it
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,952
    F1: piece up about how one of the richest sports in the world managed to lose a fifth of the grid to administrators:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/america-early-thoughts.html
  • macisbackmacisback Posts: 382
    Roger said:

    The moment has arrived for the progressives to bring in the cavalry. It's clear from recent polling that Labour's lead is slipping and if nothing is done we could be faced with a second Thatcheite era which would be every bit as unpleasant as the first.

    Labour and it's ad agency can now see the whites of the Tory eyes so it's time fire. It need a strategy which is simple powerful and simply understood. But it needs it now. If the Tories pull away it's going to be uphill and very difficult.

    That strategy needs to a total change of course, some vision of what Labour can offer in the modern world. Unlikely though when as present directed by scouse Union Leaders who want more political influence.

    Labour need a total rethink become the party pro small business, for that though they need defeat and a new leader, not Burnham though!!!.

    Chukka could be the man the more I hear him the more impressive he sounds. He may be the man who is strong enough to take Labour forward, in a more realistic direction.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,952
    Mr. Back, I must disagree vehemently. Umunna is a career politician, and not so much slick as slimy.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,704
    Genuine question...

    Does Ed have any cheerleaders left? Most supporters/commentators are eerily quiet or actively hostile these days.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Jonathan said:

    Genuine question...

    Does Ed have any cheerleaders left? Most supporters/commentators are eerily quiet or actively hostile these days.

    What about Gareth.
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Morning all,

    Don't suppose anyone knows off the top of their head if my Dallas bet came in???
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Jonathan said:

    Genuine question...

    Does Ed have any cheerleaders left? Most supporters/commentators are eerily quiet or actively hostile these days.

    A few of the Kippers have become alert to the dangers of a Labour collapse and are trying to prop Ed up with their postings.


  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173
    Jonathan said:

    Financier said:

    Jonathan said:

    Financier said:

    Jonathan said:

    Financier said:

    I had the joy this morning of waking to hear a Labour MP burbling on about Fatcha and pit closures.

    The great irony being from her first day as PM to her last Thatcher's government subsidised the mining industry with taxpayers money.

    Now how much money did the last Labour government give to coal mining ?

    This is a great illustration of the paucity of Labour thinking which results in policies suitable for the last quarter of the 20th century instead of the 2020s.

    The world has moved on and is moving on at a greater speed and Labour and the unions have to realise that the game has changed markedly and Western Europe is playing (not very well) catch up with Asia.

    We have to change our game, work a lot harder, become more aspirational and reward ourselves less - the world does not owe us a living and will not continue to lend us money to enable us to live in the way we have become accustomed. No doubt shouts of Not Fair will arise from the ranks of Labour and the LibDems, but it is either adapt or die.
    What are you going to give up and how are you going to work harder?
    I do our emails from the Far East at about 5am and am in the office from 7am to about 7pm and regularly work many weekends growing the business outside of he EU.

    What do you do?
    I do lots of lovely things, but you said that we all have to work harder and make sacrifices. So the obvious question is what are YOU prepared to do to meet your own request. Or are you somehow special?



    You do lovely things, are you retired or just modest - We have upped our business development and few staff have a regular weekend off. Nobody has had a pay rise for the last 7 years.

    So what are you prepared to do? Please reveal all.
    Again, you seem to be talking about other people and in the past. You called for people to work harder and make sacrfices. What are you going to change?

    Personally, I think most people work very hard and -- like you - don't have much scope to work harder. So I don't think your request is all that meaningful.
    You need to get out of the country more - people in the far east generally work much harder than people here and for less money - that's why we have so much debt here.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    Jonathan said:

    Genuine question...

    Does Ed have any cheerleaders left? Most supporters/commentators are eerily quiet or actively hostile these days.

    A deep depression has descended upon us. The most positive comments on his performance are now coming from isam!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    JBriskin said:

    Morning all,

    Don't suppose anyone knows off the top of their head if my Dallas bet came in???

    Washington won by 3

    Tim B looking at another season ending this year... :-)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693

    Todays BJESUS

    28.10.14 LAB 322 (327) CON 269(265) LD 33(33) UKIP 2(1) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM)
    Last weeks BJESUS in brackets
    BJESUS (Big John Election Service Uniform Swing)
    Using current polling adjusted for 191 days left to go factor and using UKPR standard swingometer

    Oi b'jesus, Ed's gone and lost his majority.

    What will your tagline change to when switchover in seats occurs in your forecast? Ed is truly crap and isn't PM?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,461

    Mr. Jessop, I did not see that. Just how good is CFD, though?

    I've done the F1 piece but I'll give it a decent look before posting, given it's complicated and there's legal wrangling involved.

    IANAE, but know people who work with people who are. ;-)

    CFD is most useful for getting broad-brush analysis of cars at an early stage, and for understanding new parts, especially in comparison to existing ones. The wind tunnel gives more information, as do track tests. It is key to get the three working in synergy - when you hear stories of Williams or Ferrari not getting their wind tunnels working, what they really mean is that the results did not match CFD and/or track results.

    CFD computers, wind tunnels and tests are now highly restricted within F1, so a large amount of planning goes into planning how to get the best bang for the buck.

    Or, if some are to be believed, utterly cheating.

    The interesting thing for me is whether this tunnel approach can get around the wind tunnel restrictions. After all, although it is a tunnel, it is not a wind tunnel, and the tests might not be considered straight-line tests, especially if parts are fitted onto non-F1 cars.

    However it will probably be used to dial-in CFD results with real-life results.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173
    isam said:

    felix said:

    Miliband and Labour also consistently uses the wrong tactics - like yesterday's silly focus on when we knew about the EU Bill when what was needed was a clear line against the EU. A fault also repeated on here by the UKIP trolls.

    Haha

    Ed exposed Dave for the deceitful spin merchant he is, get over it
    the Ukip/Labour love fest continues...............yawn
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Thanks Scott P
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    A deep depression has descended upon us. The most positive comments on his performance are now coming from isam!

    And those are fantastic nonsense.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    edited October 2014
    p.s. I also agree with MD. Whatever the answer to the Ed problem is going to be, please don't let it be chuka.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    edited October 2014
    Roger said:

    The moment has arrived for the progressives to bring in the cavalry. It's clear from recent polling that Labour's lead is slipping and if nothing is done we could be faced with a second Thatcheite era which would be every bit as unpleasant as the first.

    Labour and it's ad agency can now see the whites of the Tory eyes so it's time fire. It need a strategy which is simple powerful and simply understood. But it needs it now. If the Tories pull away it's going to be uphill and very difficult.

    "Labour and its ad agency" - LOL self-important much?

    But more pertinently, when you say "second Thatche(r)ite era" could you clarify the dates? Did the first one end in 1997? Do you really believe that Tone rolled back the magnificent and necessary reforms of Our Mags? And do you really believe that unsteady Eddie will do anything like roll anything back next year if he wins?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    felix said:

    isam said:

    felix said:

    Miliband and Labour also consistently uses the wrong tactics - like yesterday's silly focus on when we knew about the EU Bill when what was needed was a clear line against the EU. A fault also repeated on here by the UKIP trolls.

    Haha

    Ed exposed Dave for the deceitful spin merchant he is, get over it
    the Ukip/Labour love fest continues...............yawn
    Some Kippers will do anything to prevent a referendum..
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    felix said:

    isam said:

    felix said:

    Miliband and Labour also consistently uses the wrong tactics - like yesterday's silly focus on when we knew about the EU Bill when what was needed was a clear line against the EU. A fault also repeated on here by the UKIP trolls.

    Haha

    Ed exposed Dave for the deceitful spin merchant he is, get over it
    the Ukip/Labour love fest continues...............yawn
    I proved you wrong on that yesterday.. Thought you'd given up inventing arguments against it

    Is a bit weird to see the Tories do here celebrating polls that put them on 30% mind you don't you think?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    Scott_P said:

    Jonathan said:

    Genuine question...

    Does Ed have any cheerleaders left? Most supporters/commentators are eerily quiet or actively hostile these days.

    What about Gareth.
    I sincerely would like to know what tim thinks of it all. All we have these days is bobajob and smarmeron who, quite frankly and no offence, seem to be more at home on CiF.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    TOPPING said:

    I sincerely would like to know what tim thinks of it all. All we have these days is bobajob and smarmeron who, quite frankly and no offence, seem to be more at home on CiF.

    Yes, an update on the NewsSense™ list of ways in which Osborne is going to lose the next election would be entertaining in light of his ever improving numbers
  • RobCRobC Posts: 398
    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:

    Jonathan said:

    Genuine question...

    Does Ed have any cheerleaders left? Most supporters/commentators are eerily quiet or actively hostile these days.

    What about Gareth.
    I sincerely would like to know what tim thinks of it all. All we have these days is bobajob and smarmeron who, quite frankly and no offence, seem to be more at home on CiF.
    CiF?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Jonathan said:

    Genuine question...

    Does Ed have any cheerleaders left? Most supporters/commentators are eerily quiet or actively hostile these days.

    A deep depression has descended upon us. The most positive comments on his performance are now coming from isam!
    Haha

    Labour maybe doing badly Tories are just about to lose another seat to Ukip and are close to going under 30 in another poll... Hardly anything to crow about either

    Perfect for Ukip is getting both as close to 30 as possible, I've said so for months
  • macisbackmacisback Posts: 382

    Mr. Back, I must disagree vehemently. Umunna is a career politician, and not so much slick as slimy.

    Maybe but at least he has the acumen to stick to the party script in a more creative way than banging out the latest slogan every other sentence, unlike virtually every other member of the front bench.

    I also get the feeling he doesn't really believe in the messages he has to give, which is encouraging, or perhaps wishful thinking on my part.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    edited October 2014
    macisback said:

    The Tories will lose some seats to Labour, who are holding strong with certain strands of their core. In the big Urban marginals Labour will score a few hits.

    However they are losing wwc support and it won't come back easily, especially with Miliband as leader. In the East Midlands that could cost Labour some gains, in Broxtowe it will be close but my feeling is Anna will prevail, same for Amber Valley, Nigel Mills I expect to hold on.

    If you are looking for a punt on a Conservative gain from Labour, Derby North, a poor quality MP, UKIP biting into the huge estates and a big chunk of the Liberal vote likely to go Tory.

    I respect Lordy's polls but too far out yet to call them as gospel.

    I agree but Broxtowe isn't really that wwc - a more university liberal sort of place. I think Nick gets in.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,972
    edited October 2014
    DavidH


    "you can't change deeply-held brand images unless the reality changes too - as with Skoda, say."

    Quite right but Labour at the moment are a blank page without a well formed brand image. The proof of this is that it's held a 5-10% lead for a couple of years while being invisible and being led by a plank.

    It has a residual USP of being compassionate now the Lib Dems have become Tory but that's about it both positive and negative so plenty for the salesmen to get their teeth into.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844

    p.s. I also agree with MD. Whatever the answer to the Ed problem is going to be, please don't let it be chuka.

    There are far too many skeletons in his closet for that to happen. And, to give him some credit, that is something of which he is fully aware.
  • I'm liking this bloke:

    http://metro.co.uk/2014/10/26/andrew-lawrence-slams-anti-ukip-comedians-in-online-rant-4922419/

    Not too fussed about Mock The Week as they take the piss out of everything, but I have got increasingly fed up with the likes of HIGNFY, Ian Hislop in particular has now become part of the establishment that he railed against.

    And hugely unfunny 'comedians' such as Marcus Brigstocke would not have an act at all if it wasn't for the Daily Mail.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173
    edited October 2014
    isam said:

    felix said:

    isam said:

    felix said:

    Miliband and Labour also consistently uses the wrong tactics - like yesterday's silly focus on when we knew about the EU Bill when what was needed was a clear line against the EU. A fault also repeated on here by the UKIP trolls.

    Haha

    Ed exposed Dave for the deceitful spin merchant he is, get over it
    the Ukip/Labour love fest continues...............yawn
    I proved you wrong on that yesterday.. Thought you'd given up inventing arguments against it

    Is a bit weird to see the Tories do here celebrating polls that put them on 30% mind you don't you think?
    Only in your head could you ever prove anything - you can barely string a sentence together. Weird, however, is a good word for your posting pattern.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,952
    Mr. C, CiF = Comment is Free.
  • RobCRobC Posts: 398

    Mr. C, CiF = Comment is Free.

    Thanks Morris. I am not sure I can be bothered to take a look!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    Scott_P said:

    TOPPING said:

    I sincerely would like to know what tim thinks of it all. All we have these days is bobajob and smarmeron who, quite frankly and no offence, seem to be more at home on CiF.

    Yes, an update on the NewsSense™ list of ways in which Osborne is going to lose the next election would be entertaining in light of his ever improving numbers
    Oh tim was wrong much of the time but he was right a lot also and, critically, his was the essence of left/Lab thinking so at least we had a fast-track into their mindset.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited October 2014
    felix said:

    isam said:

    felix said:

    isam said:

    felix said:

    Miliband and Labour also consistently uses the wrong tactics - like yesterday's silly focus on when we knew about the EU Bill when what was needed was a clear line against the EU. A fault also repeated on here by the UKIP trolls.

    Haha

    Ed exposed Dave for the deceitful spin merchant he is, get over it
    the Ukip/Labour love fest continues...............yawn
    I proved you wrong on that yesterday.. Thought you'd given up inventing arguments against it

    Is a bit weird to see the Tories do here celebrating polls that put them on 30% mind you don't you think?
    Only in your head could you ever prove anything - you can barely string a sentence together. Weird, however, is a good word for your posting pattern.
    Strange to be so personal just because a neutral thought Ed got the better of Dave in the HofC

    Still you have no argument and people like that often play the man instead
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    Re: Ed.

    Well for me the last straw was the dreadful conference and that abysmal speech.

    In the days afterward I could feel the dyke protecting Labour's vote share from Ed's terrible ratings crumbling all around, those of us with fingers still in it have decided the game's not worth it.

    The thinking was a steady conference with a sensible leader delivering a steady and sensible speech (sigh - from a lecturn) meant we could hold out until May - perhaps with level in vote share with the Tories with the awful FPTP working to ensure Labour part of the next coalition government.

    Now even that watered down objective looks decidedly at risk. Only the Tory Party propensity to shoot itself in the foot (as it has done yet again by creating the confected furore over the EU payment request) might save it.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,704
    Is there a MSM commentator actively cheerleading for Ed?
  • RobCRobC Posts: 398
    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:

    TOPPING said:

    I sincerely would like to know what tim thinks of it all. All we have these days is bobajob and smarmeron who, quite frankly and no offence, seem to be more at home on CiF.

    Yes, an update on the NewsSense™ list of ways in which Osborne is going to lose the next election would be entertaining in light of his ever improving numbers
    Oh tim was wrong much of the time but he was right a lot also and, critically, his was the essence of left/Lab thinking so at least we had a fast-track into their mindset.
    Tim though was a Blairite and I have a feeling he knew Ed was a duffer. Talking of Blairites if Scot Lab don't choose Murphy they will deserve the fall they will undoubtedly get.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29799725

    Blunkett gets it - when will Miliband see the light?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,972
    NigeL

    "Not too fussed about Mock The Week as they take the piss out of everything, but I have got increasingly fed up with the likes of HIGNFY, Ian Hislop in particular has now become part of the establishment that he railed against."

    It's right-wingery that has united all comedians not being anti establishment (though how you could think Farage is anything other than establishment is a mystery). Hislop is different in being an out and out Tory so better to consider his jibes as merely tribal
  • Jonathan said:

    Genuine question...

    Does Ed have any cheerleaders left? Most supporters/commentators are eerily quiet or actively hostile these days.

    How could Ed have any supporters or cheerleaders left? He is not good at what he does and he is a significant drag on Labour, not only personally but also as a consequence of his piss poor leadership. He has spent four years pursuing a strategy of Save the NHS and We Are Not The Tories. It's epically, epochally bad. I don't think a major party in the UK has had a worst leader in my lifetime, which began 50 years ago.

  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Jonathan said:

    Is there a MSM commentator actively cheerleading for Ed?

    Mary Riddell of the Telegraph?
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834
    isam said:

    felix said:

    isam said:

    felix said:

    Miliband and Labour also consistently uses the wrong tactics - like yesterday's silly focus on when we knew about the EU Bill when what was needed was a clear line against the EU. A fault also repeated on here by the UKIP trolls.

    Haha

    Ed exposed Dave for the deceitful spin merchant he is, get over it
    the Ukip/Labour love fest continues...............yawn
    I proved you wrong on that yesterday.. Thought you'd given up inventing arguments against it

    Is a bit weird to see the Tories do here celebrating polls that put them on 30% mind you don't you think?
    I've not seen any of the Tories on here celebrating a poll that puts the party on 30%. Being encouraged by a poll that puts Labour on 30%, yes, but I'm sure all are aware both that level-pegging isn't enough and that there's a great deal of uncertainty as to how things will pan out between now and May. Still, the trend ...
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173
    BenM said:

    Re: Ed.

    Well for me the last straw was the dreadful conference and that abysmal speech.

    In the days afterward I could feel the dyke protecting Labour's vote share from Ed's terrible ratings crumbling all around, those of us with fingers still in it have decided the game's not worth it.

    The thinking was a steady conference with a sensible leader delivering a steady and sensible speech (sigh - from a lecturn) meant we could hold out until May - perhaps with level in vote share with the Tories with the awful FPTP working to ensure Labour part of the next coalition government.

    Now even that watered down objective looks decidedly at risk. Only the Tory Party propensity to shoot itself in the foot (as it has done yet again by creating the confected furore over the EU payment request) might save it.

    UKIP is doing it's best to save Labour but some of us are more worried about the country than any political party.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173
    Jonathan said:

    Is there a MSM commentator actively cheerleading for Ed?

    Farage and the kippers are doing their best to plug the gap.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Jonathan said:

    Is there a MSM commentator actively cheerleading for Ed?

    Polly Toynbee and Mary Riddell seem the friendliest towards him. The almost uniform lack of enthusiasm of the commentariat is striking.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    isam said:

    felix said:

    isam said:

    felix said:

    Miliband and Labour also consistently uses the wrong tactics - like yesterday's silly focus on when we knew about the EU Bill when what was needed was a clear line against the EU. A fault also repeated on here by the UKIP trolls.

    Haha

    Ed exposed Dave for the deceitful spin merchant he is, get over it
    the Ukip/Labour love fest continues...............yawn
    I proved you wrong on that yesterday.. Thought you'd given up inventing arguments against it

    Is a bit weird to see the Tories do here celebrating polls that put them on 30% mind you don't you think?
    I'll be honest - for the first time I genuinely don't know how the next GE will go. I THINK it will be a Labour minority Gov't, but have taken my Con Majority liability off the table. Ed may yet get a majority.

    I'll stick with my Labour minority prediction, which is also by far my most profitable (As it means the Tories should have won the national vote share... albeit narrowly) but I'm not ruling anything out.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    Jonathan said:

    Genuine question...

    Does Ed have any cheerleaders left? Most supporters/commentators are eerily quiet or actively hostile these days.

    How could Ed have any supporters or cheerleaders left? He is not good at what he does and he is a significant drag on Labour, not only personally but also as a consequence of his piss poor leadership. He has spent four years pursuing a strategy of Save the NHS and We Are Not The Tories. It's epically, epochally bad. I don't think a major party in the UK has had a worst leader in my lifetime, which began 50 years ago.

    Do you think Ed will become PM ?
  • macisbackmacisback Posts: 382
    Pulpstar said:

    macisback said:

    The Tories will lose some seats to Labour, who are holding strong with certain strands of their core. In the big Urban marginals Labour will score a few hits.

    However they are losing wwc support and it won't come back easily, especially with Miliband as leader. In the East Midlands that could cost Labour some gains, in Broxtowe it will be close but my feeling is Anna will prevail, same for Amber Valley, Nigel Mills I expect to hold on.

    If you are looking for a punt on a Conservative gain from Labour, Derby North, a poor quality MP, UKIP biting into the huge estates and a big chunk of the Liberal vote likely to go Tory.

    I respect Lordy's polls but too far out yet to call them as gospel.

    I agree but Broxtowe isn't really that wwc - a more university liberal sort of place. I think Nick gets in.
    Compared with most of the East Midlands it is but it is still very mixed, it is a difficult seat to call at this stage. Anna has that charisma though, it might just get her those extra few votes to pull her over the line. To say she has no chance or has given up as I read on these pages is not the case, locally the Conservatives are confident of performing well in the East Midlands marginals.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Roger said:

    NigeL

    "Not too fussed about Mock The Week as they take the piss out of everything, but I have got increasingly fed up with the likes of HIGNFY, Ian Hislop in particular has now become part of the establishment that he railed against."

    It's right-wingery that has united all comedians not being anti establishment (though how you could think Farage is anything other than establishment is a mystery). Hislop is different in being an out and out Tory so better to consider his jibes as merely tribal

    Hislop usually votes Lib Dem. And the idea that most comedians are right wing is bizzare. Most are either apolitical or soft left.
  • Jonathan said:

    Genuine question...

    Does Ed have any cheerleaders left? Most supporters/commentators are eerily quiet or actively hostile these days.

    How could Ed have any supporters or cheerleaders left? He is not good at what he does and he is a significant drag on Labour, not only personally but also as a consequence of his piss poor leadership. He has spent four years pursuing a strategy of Save the NHS and We Are Not The Tories. It's epically, epochally bad. I don't think a major party in the UK has had a worst leader in my lifetime, which began 50 years ago.

    It's not even We Are Not The Tories but the constant flipflopping between We Are Not The Evil Nasty People and We Would Not Do That Much Different Anyway.

    "but ... but ... but ... I care more" seems to be all he's got in his locker.

  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    antifrank said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is there a MSM commentator actively cheerleading for Ed?

    Polly Toynbee and Mary Riddell seem the friendliest towards him. The almost uniform lack of enthusiasm of the commentariat is striking.
    Did Polly Toynbee switch allegiance to the Lib Dems last night, on election eve? Along with the Guardian?

    It'll have to be a late switch to the Greens this time.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    felix said:

    isam said:

    felix said:

    Miliband and Labour also consistently uses the wrong tactics - like yesterday's silly focus on when we knew about the EU Bill when what was needed was a clear line against the EU. A fault also repeated on here by the UKIP trolls.

    Haha

    Ed exposed Dave for the deceitful spin merchant he is, get over it
    the Ukip/Labour love fest continues...............yawn
    I proved you wrong on that yesterday.. Thought you'd given up inventing arguments against it

    Is a bit weird to see the Tories do here celebrating polls that put them on 30% mind you don't you think?
    I'll be honest - for the first time I genuinely don't know how the next GE will go. I THINK it will be a Labour minority Gov't, but have taken my Con Majority liability off the table. Ed may yet get a majority.

    I'll stick with my Labour minority prediction, which is also by far my most profitable (As it means the Tories should have won the national vote share... albeit narrowly) but I'm not ruling anything out.
    Smart move. But fear not, Ed won't get a majority.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    antifrank said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is there a MSM commentator actively cheerleading for Ed?

    Polly Toynbee and Mary Riddell seem the friendliest towards him. The almost uniform lack of enthusiasm of the commentariat is striking.
    I do wonder if it is because of his Leveson stance that all the hacks seem to dislike him ? And the fact that more than a good few of them are very Blairite.

    I get the feeling Peter Hitchens dislikes Cameron far more than Ed too.
  • macisbackmacisback Posts: 382

    Jonathan said:

    Genuine question...

    Does Ed have any cheerleaders left? Most supporters/commentators are eerily quiet or actively hostile these days.

    How could Ed have any supporters or cheerleaders left? He is not good at what he does and he is a significant drag on Labour, not only personally but also as a consequence of his piss poor leadership. He has spent four years pursuing a strategy of Save the NHS and We Are Not The Tories. It's epically, epochally bad. I don't think a major party in the UK has had a worst leader in my lifetime, which began 50 years ago.

    Michael Howard must have been at least on a par, Ed was the wrong man backed by the wrong people but there have been worse and could be in future. The prospect Burnham as Labour leader fills me with terror.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    I tend to agree with BenM's observation. Most of my Labour supporting friends went from stoic to seriously depressed after the Conference speech. It really was a turning point in a way that these things rarely are. Very few actually watched the speech of course but the theme of the man who forgot the deficit entered the mainstream.

    For me, it simply emphasised and confirmed something that was pretty obvious to people like me who spend far too long looking at the minutiae of politics: this man has nothing useful to say about the problems the UK faces, the challenges of the next 5 years and no program or plan for government at all. The blank sheet has become the vacant stare. I have no idea how Labour fixes this but on current trends they are in real trouble.
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    felix said:

    BenM said:

    Re: Ed.

    Well for me the last straw was the dreadful conference and that abysmal speech.

    In the days afterward I could feel the dyke protecting Labour's vote share from Ed's terrible ratings crumbling all around, those of us with fingers still in it have decided the game's not worth it.

    The thinking was a steady conference with a sensible leader delivering a steady and sensible speech (sigh - from a lecturn) meant we could hold out until May - perhaps with level in vote share with the Tories with the awful FPTP working to ensure Labour part of the next coalition government.

    Now even that watered down objective looks decidedly at risk. Only the Tory Party propensity to shoot itself in the foot (as it has done yet again by creating the confected furore over the EU payment request) might save it.

    UKIP is doing it's best to save Labour but some of us are more worried about the country than any political party.
    The country needs sorely to be rid of conservatism in all forms if it is to prosper.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Jonathan said:

    Genuine question...

    Does Ed have any cheerleaders left? Most supporters/commentators are eerily quiet or actively hostile these days.

    How could Ed have any supporters or cheerleaders left? He is not good at what he does and he is a significant drag on Labour, not only personally but also as a consequence of his piss poor leadership. He has spent four years pursuing a strategy of Save the NHS and We Are Not The Tories. It's epically, epochally bad. I don't think a major party in the UK has had a worst leader in my lifetime, which began 50 years ago.

    Do you think Ed will become PM ?

    I genuinely hope not. I thought he was a terrible choice as Labour leader from the day he was elected by the unions and I cannot imagine he would be anything other than a terrible PM - especially in charge of a minority administration. I have been waiting for four years now to be proved wrong about Ed. I have tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, but in the end there is no escape from the fact that he is a piss poor leader.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    edited October 2014

    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    felix said:

    isam said:

    felix said:

    Miliband and Labour also consistently uses the wrong tactics - like yesterday's silly focus on when we knew about the EU Bill when what was needed was a clear line against the EU. A fault also repeated on here by the UKIP trolls.

    Haha

    Ed exposed Dave for the deceitful spin merchant he is, get over it
    the Ukip/Labour love fest continues...............yawn
    I proved you wrong on that yesterday.. Thought you'd given up inventing arguments against it

    Is a bit weird to see the Tories do here celebrating polls that put them on 30% mind you don't you think?
    I'll be honest - for the first time I genuinely don't know how the next GE will go. I THINK it will be a Labour minority Gov't, but have taken my Con Majority liability off the table. Ed may yet get a majority.

    I'll stick with my Labour minority prediction, which is also by far my most profitable (As it means the Tories should have won the national vote share... albeit narrowly) but I'm not ruling anything out.
    Smart move. But fear not, Ed won't get a majority.
    The prices on Con majority have moved out bizzarely as the Labour vote share has fallen (ANd it is the gap that matters). I sold at around 4 and bought at 5.2, so its worked out OK to be honest.

    If UKIP perform modestly, and fail to take any Labour seats (Except Thurrock ... sort of) the Lib Dems fight hard against the Tories but fold to Labour (So their collapse is net neutral) and the SNP fail to break alot of the huge Labour majorities, then Ed is starting from a good position before Lab-Con switches are considered.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,952
    Betting Post

    This won't count towards my scorecard for the season, but I just backed Vettel each way to be the winner without Rosberg/Hamilton at 15 (Ladbrokes), 1/5 the odds for top 3.

    So, it wins if he's in the top 5. We only have two previous races to go on, but the Red Bull's done well at both of them. Mercedes is faster, but that's discounted by the nature of the bet. Ricciardo is likely but not certain to finish ahead, and the Williams is a threat. However, I'm not convinced McLaren, despite recent progress, will be able to challenge (the Texas circuit has both fast straight line and twisty bits, and the Red Bull will be miles better in the corners).

    So, if I'm right (ahem) that means four cars (Williams/Red Bull) after three places. So odds of just under 3/1 for Vettel to get one of those places looks good to me.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    felix said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29799725

    Blunkett gets it - when will Miliband see the light?

    Blunkett's intervention is killer for Labour. They're treating the public like mugs: saying they "understand concerns" but not doing anything about it.
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    [This won't count towards my scorecard for the season]

    Cheeky - You've even yellow-boxed it!
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    I've been trying to read through the EU paperwork about amendments to the budget. There's a lot in there and I can't work it out - perhaps unsurprisingly.

    There are many tables in there about a "UK Correction", and the financing thereof, with figures given of:
    2010 €3.7bn
    2011 €4.2bn
    2013 €5.5bn
    I'm guessing that is the UK rebate?

    There are also a variety of adjustments to the 2014 budget, as follows (date, UK amendment)
    Initial 2014 budget €14,494m
    15th April, -€146m
    28th May, +€461m
    9th July, +€288m
    8th September, +€7m
    16th October, -€56m
    17th October, -€1,491m
    17th October, +€12m
    New amount €13,569m

    I can't find the €2.1bn value anywhere, but maybe the EU haven't published the relevant document yet. Anyhow, it seems that the UK is quids in for the 2014 budget year (so far), to the tune of €925m. If you were to combine the €2.1bn correction for previous years with the amendments to the current year then you could produce a "final/net" figure of about €1.2bn.

    My guess is that there will be some playing about with numbers along those lines that Cameron will spin as a great victory, but will also satisfy the Commission and the other nation states as it will basically not involve changing anything. But I could be wrong.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,952
    Mr. Pulpstar, agree entirely on most comedians being either left or apathetic/neutral politically.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,952
    Mr. Briskin, not cheeky. I only count tips included in pre-qualifying and pre-race pieces.

    Even the Rosberg 24/1 or 16/1 tip (and the subsequent evens tips on Hamilton go all-green) won't count towards the scorecard.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,952
    Mr. Isam, not surprising given we're near to an election. Also worth mentioning UKIP is not overflowing with critics of Farage.
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380

    Mr. Briskin, not cheeky. I only count tips included in pre-qualifying and pre-race pieces.

    Even the Rosberg 24/1 or 16/1 tip (and the subsequent evens tips on Hamilton go all-green) won't count towards the scorecard.

    That's all well and good but some of read some of your blog you know!

    FTR - When Lewis becomes value I will start betting on him again - a tactic I clearly stated many months ago!
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited October 2014
    isam said:
    They're also being helped by the pollsters who, with the exception of Survation, favour Con/Lab/LD over UKIP.

    So however bad the current numbers appear for Con/Lab, the truth is probably worse.

    ComRes online 16 Oct, standard prompting.
    Con 31%, Lab 34%, LD 7%, UKIP 19%

    ComRes online 16 Oct, include UKIP in prompting
    Con 29%, Lab 31%, LD 7%, UKIP 24%
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Socrates said:

    felix said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29799725

    Blunkett gets it - when will Miliband see the light?

    Blunkett's intervention is killer for Labour. They're treating the public like mugs: saying they "understand concerns" but not doing anything about it.
    There is a big problem with migration about a mile from where I'm sitting now in the Page Hall area of Sheffield.

    http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/sheffield-mp-easing-roma-migrant-fears-1-6248246

    Contrast Blunkett and Clegg's attitudes to the issue.

    Blunkett will of course win the seat, and I'd have thought UKIP would be an easy second in Sheffield Brightside.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693
    Socrates said:

    felix said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29799725

    Blunkett gets it - when will Miliband see the light?

    Blunkett's intervention is killer for Labour. They're treating the public like mugs: saying they "understand concerns" but not doing anything about it.
    I think all this stuff on entitlements and benefits is a bit of red herring. If new immigrants cannot access these, they will still come (most come to work; to build a better economic life for themselves in a physically and politically 'safe' environment) but crowd still further into rented accommodation. If that isn't available, they'll crowd into illegal sheds/outhouses or their own makeshift lodgings elsewhere on the outskirts of town. The local authority will then come under pressure to do something about it on humanitarian grounds.

    Ultimately, this is about controlling numbers. That issue cannot be ducked.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    felix said:

    You need to get out of the country more - people in the far east generally work much harder than people here and for less money - that's why we have so much debt here.

    That is a non sequitar.

    People in Italy work less hard than we do, or people in the Far East, yet have far lower levels of debt. And people in some parts of the world - like the US (or in Japan in 1990)- work very hard, and have (or had) very high levels of debt.

    It is not hard work, or lack thereof, that causes debt.

    Debt is a conscious decision by people to do a 'time transfer of work', and swap the fruits of labour now, for labour in the future.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    edited October 2014
    Speaking of UKIP seconds, must say I'm very confident of my bet whereby I win a pound for each UKIP 2nd over 10.5 2nds. (Max 50 seats)

    Whichever party loses the election (Lab/Con) could well come third in the popular vote in 2020 I think. So rather than being a "good one to lose" I think this election is the most important in a generation to WIN.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,989
    Morning all :)

    I've not ploughed through the blizzard of no-doubt excited posts since last night's ComRes. I'd make a few other observations:

    1) The Labour number could well be an outlier - it is the lowest Labour figure I've seen for a long time but it could mark another step down the rankings for the Party- we'll see.

    2) While there were undoubtedly hundreds of gleeful posts on here about the Labour number, I suspect there weren't so many about the Conservative number. 30% with ComRes and 32% with YouGov are nothing to shout about - they are 1997/2001 levels of support. The disjointed nature of the Conservative side of the Government in recent days suggests to this observer a mild form of panic is setting in particularly with R&S on the horizon.

    3) Then we have the complacent view that somehow all these UKIP supporters will "come home" to the Tories as the election approaches. ComRes suggests if they go anywhere it will be back to Labour so it seems to me both the duopoly parties will benefit if UKIP subsides in or before the election campaign.

    4) UKIP's problem may be that of the Alliance in 1983 - a vote too evenly distributed but 18% is a strong polling number barely six months before polling day though it remains to be seen if the Party's support is a mile wide and an inch deep. The current unimpressive Government response to the EU budget proposal (which looks far too stage-managed) won't send many into the Conservative fold.

    5) So what happens IF Reckless holds R&S comfortably for UKIP in three and a bit weeks and the Conservatives are scrapping for second with Labour ? It may do nothing but it will perpetuate the sense of crisis.

    6) Duopoly with ComRes 60%, with YouGov 64% (which is low for them). Is 2015 going to be a variant of February 1974 where both main parties lost support and with UKIP playing the role of the Liberals (huge increase in vote share, very little to show for it) ?
  • Pulpstar said:

    Socrates said:

    felix said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29799725

    Blunkett gets it - when will Miliband see the light?

    Blunkett's intervention is killer for Labour. They're treating the public like mugs: saying they "understand concerns" but not doing anything about it.
    There is a big problem with migration about a mile from where I'm sitting now in the Page Hall area of Sheffield.

    http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/sheffield-mp-easing-roma-migrant-fears-1-6248246

    Contrast Blunkett and Clegg's attitudes to the issue.

    Blunkett will of course win the seat, and I'd have thought UKIP would be an easy second in Sheffield Brightside.

    He won't as he is standing down
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    Pulpstar said:

    Socrates said:

    felix said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29799725

    Blunkett gets it - when will Miliband see the light?

    Blunkett's intervention is killer for Labour. They're treating the public like mugs: saying they "understand concerns" but not doing anything about it.
    There is a big problem with migration about a mile from where I'm sitting now in the Page Hall area of Sheffield.

    http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/sheffield-mp-easing-roma-migrant-fears-1-6248246

    Contrast Blunkett and Clegg's attitudes to the issue.

    Blunkett will of course win the seat, and I'd have thought UKIP would be an easy second in Sheffield Brightside.

    He won't as he is standing down
    Ah OK - Didn't realise. Wonder who will get the seat. UKIP definitely should get 2nd then.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    ..If you were to combine the €2.1bn correction for previous years with the amendments to the current year then you could produce a "final/net" figure of about €1.2bn...

    And, interestingly, in GBP that would be just under £1bn at about £950m - so under an important psychological threshold. If Cameron can tell the Commons that his determination has taken the UK bill to below £1bn then it will sound good on the evening news.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    RobC said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:

    TOPPING said:

    I sincerely would like to know what tim thinks of it all. All we have these days is bobajob and smarmeron who, quite frankly and no offence, seem to be more at home on CiF.

    Yes, an update on the NewsSense™ list of ways in which Osborne is going to lose the next election would be entertaining in light of his ever improving numbers
    Oh tim was wrong much of the time but he was right a lot also and, critically, his was the essence of left/Lab thinking so at least we had a fast-track into their mindset.
    Tim though was a Blairite and I have a feeling he knew Ed was a duffer. Talking of Blairites if Scot Lab don't choose Murphy they will deserve the fall they will undoubtedly get.
    Also if they choose Murphy they will get the fall they deserve, just bigger. People will not vote Red Tories in
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    I've not ploughed through the blizzard of no-doubt excited posts since last night's ComRes. I'd make a few other observations:

    1) The Labour number could well be an outlier - it is the lowest Labour figure I've seen for a long time but it could mark another step down the rankings for the Party- we'll see.

    2) While there were undoubtedly hundreds of gleeful posts on here about the Labour number, I suspect there weren't so many about the Conservative number. 30% with ComRes and 32% with YouGov are nothing to shout about - they are 1997/2001 levels of support. The disjointed nature of the Conservative side of the Government in recent days suggests to this observer a mild form of panic is setting in particularly with R&S on the horizon.

    3) Then we have the complacent view that somehow all these UKIP supporters will "come home" to the Tories as the election approaches. ComRes suggests if they go anywhere it will be back to Labour so it seems to me both the duopoly parties will benefit if UKIP subsides in or before the election campaign.

    4) UKIP's problem may be that of the Alliance in 1983 - a vote too evenly distributed but 18% is a strong polling number barely six months before polling day though it remains to be seen if the Party's support is a mile wide and an inch deep. The current unimpressive Government response to the EU budget proposal (which looks far too stage-managed) won't send many into the Conservative fold.

    5) So what happens IF Reckless holds R&S comfortably for UKIP in three and a bit weeks and the Conservatives are scrapping for second with Labour ? It may do nothing but it will perpetuate the sense of crisis.

    6) Duopoly with ComRes 60%, with YouGov 64% (which is low for them). Is 2015 going to be a variant of February 1974 where both main parties lost support and with UKIP playing the role of the Liberals (huge increase in vote share, very little to show for it) ?

    Before I go back to work, I would point out that in 1983, the Alliance got 25%, but was 19% behind the winner.

    In 2015, UKIP could get 18%, and be just 12% behind the winner. This would, one would think, mean that they could do rather better.

    That being said, it is equally possible, that UKIP will pile up votes in a lot of useless seconds in the North of England (against Labour), will narrowly miss out on a bunch of seats against the Libs in the South West, and will also get a lot of votes in safe Conservative seats in the South and East. In which case, you could very well be right.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    stodge said:

    4) UKIP's problem may be that of the Alliance in 1983 - a vote too evenly distributed but 18% is a strong polling number barely six months before polling day though it remains to be seen if the Party's support is a mile wide and an inch deep. The current unimpressive Government response to the EU budget proposal (which looks far too stage-managed) won't send many into the Conservative fold.

    In the 2013 (22% NEV), and 2014 (18% NEV) local elections UKIP's vote was concentrated enough for them to 'win' Westminster seats.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693
    malcolmg said:

    RobC said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:

    TOPPING said:

    I sincerely would like to know what tim thinks of it all. All we have these days is bobajob and smarmeron who, quite frankly and no offence, seem to be more at home on CiF.

    Yes, an update on the NewsSense™ list of ways in which Osborne is going to lose the next election would be entertaining in light of his ever improving numbers
    Oh tim was wrong much of the time but he was right a lot also and, critically, his was the essence of left/Lab thinking so at least we had a fast-track into their mindset.
    Tim though was a Blairite and I have a feeling he knew Ed was a duffer. Talking of Blairites if Scot Lab don't choose Murphy they will deserve the fall they will undoubtedly get.
    Also if they choose Murphy they will get the fall they deserve, just bigger. People will not vote Red Tories in
    Are they viewed as Red Tories just because of their unionism? Are Liberal Democrats yellow Tories, for instance?

    I can't see anything vaguely Tory about Labour under Ed Miliband, but perhaps Scots see it differently.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Or Pot Noodles - it's the repeat purchase experience that Labour has a problem with [ruining the economy again].

    EdM has terrible brand values, and it shows in his polling approval numbers. Frankly, would you want to Be Like Him? No Thanks is the default it appears.

    No amount of PR [which isn't Advertising] can sell a crap product - it can only apply lipstick to a pig.

    Roger said:

    The moment has arrived for the progressives to bring in the cavalry. It's clear from recent polling that Labour's lead is slipping and if nothing is done we could be faced with a second Thatcheite era which would be every bit as unpleasant as the first.

    Labour and it's ad agency can now see the whites of the Tory eyes so it's time fire. It need a strategy which is simple powerful and simply understood. But it needs it now. If the Tories pull away it's going to be uphill and very difficult.

    Ah, the power of advertising. The problem is that while you can market unknown rubbish as wonderful and get away with it for a while, you can't change deeply-held brand images unless the reality changes too - as with Skoda, say.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    rcs1000 said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    I've not ploughed through the blizzard of no-doubt excited posts since last night's ComRes. I'd make a few other observations:

    1) The Labour number could well be an outlier - it is the lowest Labour figure I've seen for a long time but it could mark another step down the rankings for the Party- we'll see.

    2) While there were undoubtedly hundreds of gleeful posts on here about the Labour number, I suspect there weren't so many about the Conservative number. 30% with ComRes and 32% with YouGov are nothing to shout about - they are 1997/2001 levels of support. The disjointed nature of the Conservative side of the Government in recent days suggests to this observer a mild form of panic is setting in particularly with R&S on the horizon.

    3) Then we have the complacent view that somehow all these UKIP supporters will "come home" to the Tories as the election approaches. ComRes suggests if they go anywhere it will be back to Labour so it seems to me both the duopoly parties will benefit if UKIP subsides in or before the election campaign.

    4) UKIP's problem may be that of the Alliance in 1983 - a vote too evenly distributed but 18% is a strong polling number barely six months before polling day though it remains to be seen if the Party's support is a mile wide and an inch deep. The current unimpressive Government response to the EU budget proposal (which looks far too stage-managed) won't send many into the Conservative fold.

    5) So what happens IF Reckless holds R&S comfortably for UKIP in three and a bit weeks and the Conservatives are scrapping for second with Labour ? It may do nothing but it will perpetuate the sense of crisis.

    6) Duopoly with ComRes 60%, with YouGov 64% (which is low for them). Is 2015 going to be a variant of February 1974 where both main parties lost support and with UKIP playing the role of the Liberals (huge increase in vote share, very little to show for it) ?

    Before I go back to work, I would point out that in 1983, the Alliance got 25%, but was 19% behind the winner.

    In 2015, UKIP could get 18%, and be just 12% behind the winner. This would, one would think, mean that they could do rather better.

    That being said, it is equally possible, that UKIP will pile up votes in a lot of useless seconds in the North of England (against Labour), will narrowly miss out on a bunch of seats against the Libs in the South West, and will also get a lot of votes in safe Conservative seats in the South and East. In which case, you could very well be right.
    Those certainly won't be "useless" seconds ^_~
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    PR is kinda close to Advertising isn't it Plato?

    It's Marketing that I could never get my head round...
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Socrates said:

    Here's an idea for Cameron: link payment of the money to scrapping the Strasbourg location for the European Parliament. Then it would draw attention to French unreasonableness.

    Everybody knows the French are being dicks over the parliament, drawing attention to it wouldn't help.

    The ultimate resolution to this one will be the parliament working out some kind of trick to avoid having to go to Strasbourg. My suggestion is to allow members to speak and vote remotely, and count people on video links as present for quorums etc. Then send one bloke down to bang a gavel in Strasbourg while everybody else tele-commutes from the parliament chamber in Brussels.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    malcolmg said:

    RobC said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:

    TOPPING said:

    I sincerely would like to know what tim thinks of it all. All we have these days is bobajob and smarmeron who, quite frankly and no offence, seem to be more at home on CiF.

    Yes, an update on the NewsSense™ list of ways in which Osborne is going to lose the next election would be entertaining in light of his ever improving numbers
    Oh tim was wrong much of the time but he was right a lot also and, critically, his was the essence of left/Lab thinking so at least we had a fast-track into their mindset.
    Tim though was a Blairite and I have a feeling he knew Ed was a duffer. Talking of Blairites if Scot Lab don't choose Murphy they will deserve the fall they will undoubtedly get.
    Also if they choose Murphy they will get the fall they deserve, just bigger. People will not vote Red Tories in
    Are they viewed as Red Tories just because of their unionism? Are Liberal Democrats yellow Tories, for instance?

    I can't see anything vaguely Tory about Labour under Ed Miliband, but perhaps Scots see it differently.
    Liberals are just lying toads and irrelevant. Labour are now seen as just Red Tories from Scottish viewpoint , not a cigarette paper between them. Murphy in particular is seen as a Blairite Tory , self seeking , greedy , me me arse.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I fear for you and Labour here - the closer we get to the GE, the more people will look at EdM and think No Thanks.

    I can't see how he's going to turn this around - unless he comes out as Superman. Literally.
    BenM said:

    Sean_F said:

    You can't have a leader whose ratings are at -45% without dragging down your vote share eventually.

    ...and getting worse!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    @rcs1000 Out of interest how would you price up oil (Brent) to be above £50 currency equivalent at year end at the moment ?
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Staff at Monarch airlines have agreed to 700 redundancies and pay cuts of up to 30% as part of a deal to save the Luton-based company.

    Greybull Capital has bought the airline from the Mantegazza family which has owned it since the 1960s.

    More than 90% of unionised staff voted to accept the changes. Two-thirds of the redundancies will be voluntary.

    The fleet will be reduced from 42 aircraft to 34, and long-haul and charter flying will end by April.

    The network will specialise in Monarch's scheduled short-haul European leisure routes.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-29796794
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,952
    Mr. Briskin, Hamilton likely won't be value again this year.

    He's got momentum, the best car and has always been rated a better driver than Rosberg, despite how very close things have been.
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Pulpstar said:

    @rcs1000 Out of interest how would you price up oil (Brent) to be above £50 currency equivalent at year end at the moment ?

    Depends on your year end surely?

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    felix said:
    Is this the Blunkett who said - when in power - that he could see no reason to place any upper limit on the number of immigrants into the country?

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobC said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:

    TOPPING said:

    I sincerely would like to know what tim thinks of it all. All we have these days is bobajob and smarmeron who, quite frankly and no offence, seem to be more at home on CiF.

    Yes, an update on the NewsSense™ list of ways in which Osborne is going to lose the next election would be entertaining in light of his ever improving numbers
    Oh tim was wrong much of the time but he was right a lot also and, critically, his was the essence of left/Lab thinking so at least we had a fast-track into their mindset.
    Tim though was a Blairite and I have a feeling he knew Ed was a duffer. Talking of Blairites if Scot Lab don't choose Murphy they will deserve the fall they will undoubtedly get.
    Also if they choose Murphy they will get the fall they deserve, just bigger. People will not vote Red Tories in
    Are they viewed as Red Tories just because of their unionism? Are Liberal Democrats yellow Tories, for instance?

    I can't see anything vaguely Tory about Labour under Ed Miliband, but perhaps Scots see it differently.
    Liberals are just lying toads and irrelevant. Labour are now seen as just Red Tories from Scottish viewpoint , not a cigarette paper between them. Murphy in particular is seen as a Blairite Tory , self seeking , greedy , me me arse.
    Some advice from McTernan for Slab - should they choose to take it

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/scottish-politics/11190472/Labour-starts-a-civil-war-north-of-the-border.html

    "The lesson? Play to your own strengths, not to your opponent’s. It’s not rocket salad, as an irate woman once said at a public meeting I attended.
    The SNP are busy constructing a myth that Scotland is a wildly Left-wing, working-class country. It is not. As the referendum result showed, it is a solidly middle-class, and – dare one say it – moderate Unionist country. "
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380

    Mr. Briskin, Hamilton likely won't be value again this year.

    He's got momentum, the best car and has always been rated a better driver than Rosberg, despite how very close things have been.

    I know. And if he does I'll almost definitely miss it.

    C'est la vie as they say
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    JBriskin said:

    PR is kinda close to Advertising isn't it Plato?

    It's Marketing that I could never get my head round...

    Brisket, they are all cheeks of the same arse
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Financier said:

    Staff at Monarch airlines have agreed to 700 redundancies and pay cuts of up to 30% as part of a deal to save the Luton-based company.

    Greybull Capital has bought the airline from the Mantegazza family which has owned it since the 1960s.

    More than 90% of unionised staff voted to accept the changes. Two-thirds of the redundancies will be voluntary.

    The fleet will be reduced from 42 aircraft to 34, and long-haul and charter flying will end by April.

    The network will specialise in Monarch's scheduled short-haul European leisure routes.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-29796794

    Sehr Guht,

    And ICYMI - apparently Lloyds are cutting 7k staff...

This discussion has been closed.