Nowadays people seem to be more open to considering voting for political parties other than their 'tribe' as evidenced by the decline in the vote share of the two main parties.
If people vote less automatically on tribal grounds then hopefully they will take a little time to consider the qualities of the candidates and vote for the best candidate rather than a particular party.
Miss Plato, pre-prepared is bloody awful, but that's a Brownism. The worst Americanism is probably "I could care less". It sounds like someone who's intellectually subnormal attempting to be sarcastic.
Most American terms don't really bother me much, but that one grates.
Nowadays people seem to be more open to considering voting for political parties other than their 'tribe' as evidenced by the decline in the vote share of the two main parties.
If people vote less automatically on tribal grounds then hopefully they will take a little time to consider the qualities of the candidates and vote for the best candidate rather than a particular party.
Indeed
Only 42% of eligible voters chose Labour or Tory in 2010... it was 70%+ in the 1960s and 70s
"Today, anyone with an internet connection can, in a few seconds, buy just about anything in the world and have it delivered to their door in days. They can watch TV and movies from almost any country, read the news from tens of thousands of outlets. They can choose.
And given choices, people tend to use them. We have all become promiscuous in our shopping, eating and viewing habits. Marketing experts used to find it fairly easy to divide people according to their preferred supermarket. But now, Waitrose people shop in Lidl, too. Brand loyalty is history and even giants such as Tesco struggle to keep up with consumers spoilt for choice. And just try explaining to the YouTube generation that not too long ago, televisions had only three channels.
Voters shop around too. In 1951, Labour and the Conservatives took 96 per cent of all votes. In 2010 it was 65 per cent. Barely 20 per cent of under-25s say they identify with a political party. Ipsos Mori this week forecast that within a decade, fewer than a quarter of all voters will feel a connection with any one political party. The electorate is more volatile, less reliable. As many as one in five people who voted for the Scottish National Party in parliamentary elections last week voted No to the party’s existential aim of Scottish independence"
Interesting meme shift on political betting the last few days. Mike et. al. now talking about 'how' the Conservatives can, or cannot, win. This is the first time in several years as previously the idea has tended to be dismissed out of hand.
Nowadays people seem to be more open to considering voting for political parties other than their 'tribe' as evidenced by the decline in the vote share of the two main parties.
If people vote less automatically on tribal grounds then hopefully they will take a little time to consider the qualities of the candidates and vote for the best candidate rather than a particular party.
If say John Redwood were my local candidate I would stay Con but unfortunately I have Greg Hands whose voting record on issues important to me is the opposite to what I desire so will go UKIP.
I'm lost about your point. You've already left and become an advocate for AN Other. You're triumphalist about it. What turns you on isn't this.
@BenM is Grieving Party Man who wants to be reassured. Quite different motivations/emotions going on there.
That's my PR/Marketing persona diagnosis. It's not very attractive as a form of professional manipulation, but I'm upfront about it. Like a prostitute not kissing a client.
Nowadays people seem to be more open to considering voting for political parties other than their 'tribe' as evidenced by the decline in the vote share of the two main parties.
If people vote less automatically on tribal grounds then hopefully they will take a little time to consider the qualities of the candidates and vote for the best candidate rather than a particular party.
If say John Redwood were my local candidate I would stay Con but unfortunately I have Greg Hands whose voting record on issues important to me is the opposite to what I desire so will go UKIP.
Conservative MPs should think hard before the European Arrest Warrant vote.
EU bloke on Daily Politics saying its not their fault the UK government didn't prepare for this tax bill, and holds up the letter from Nicky Morgan showing they knew it was coming in March...
EU bloke on Daily Politics saying its not their fault the UK government didn't prepare for this tax bill, and holds up the letter from Nicky Morgan showing they knew it was coming in March...
I'm lost about your point. You've already left and become an advocate for AN Other. You're triumphalist about it. What turns you on isn't this.
@BenM is Grieving Party Man who wants to be reassured. Quite different motivations/emotions going on there.
That's my PR/Marketing persona diagnosis. It's not very attractive as a form of professional manipulation, but I'm upfront about it. Like a prostitute not kissing a client.
A nicer news story, the 'British Schindler' is to receive the highest honour in the Czech Republic today for his efforts saving children from the Nazis before WWII kicked off: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29798434
Edited extra bit: thwarted, beaten by Dr. Spyn by a few minutes!
I've met this guy, Morris.
He's truly sensational. He operated from 20 Willow Road, Hampstead, NW3. The owners were approached a while back about having one of those Blue Plaques on the front of the house to celebrate this outstanding former resident. They declined, presumably concerned it would lower the tone.
It includes the method for working it out, which shouldn't be beyond the countries top politicians
Don't you start with the strawman of "Dave didn't know exactly the amount".. no one is saying he did, but he shouldn't have been surprised it was a big amount
To be fair, he wasn't surprised, he just pretended he was to score points by looking angry
EU bloke on Daily Politics saying its not their fault the UK government didn't prepare for this tax bill, and holds up the letter from Nicky Morgan showing they knew it was coming in March...
Oddly, I was relating Sir Nicholas Winton's actions yesterday morning to my PT (who as an Italian had never heard of him but had seen the kindertransport statue on Liverpool St station). I was trying to recall whether he was still alive. It's nice to see that sometimes the good don't die young.
EU bloke on Daily Politics saying its not their fault the UK government didn't prepare for this tax bill, and holds up the letter from Nicky Morgan showing they knew it was coming in March...
So why the synthetic anger from Dave?
Dave's banging of the lectern the other day was one of the most synthetic things I've seen in politics for a long time, presumably for the benefit of Rochester voters.
A nicer news story, the 'British Schindler' is to receive the highest honour in the Czech Republic today for his efforts saving children from the Nazis before WWII kicked off: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29798434
Edited extra bit: thwarted, beaten by Dr. Spyn by a few minutes!
I've met this guy, Morris.
He's truly sensational. He operated from 20 Willow Road, Hampstead, NW3. The owners were approached a while back about having one of those Blue Plaques on the front of the house to celebrate this outstanding former resident. They declined, presumably concerned it would lower the tone.
You get some funny folk in Hampstead.
Too often, people with more money than sense - or humanity, apparently.
I sincerely would like to know what tim thinks of it all. All we have these days is bobajob and smarmeron who, quite frankly and no offence, seem to be more at home on CiF.
Yes, an update on the NewsSense™ list of ways in which Osborne is going to lose the next election would be entertaining in light of his ever improving numbers
Oh tim was wrong much of the time but he was right a lot also and, critically, his was the essence of left/Lab thinking so at least we had a fast-track into their mindset.
Tim though was a Blairite and I have a feeling he knew Ed was a duffer. Talking of Blairites if Scot Lab don't choose Murphy they will deserve the fall they will undoubtedly get.
Also if they choose Murphy they will get the fall they deserve, just bigger. People will not vote Red Tories in
Are they viewed as Red Tories just because of their unionism? Are Liberal Democrats yellow Tories, for instance?
I can't see anything vaguely Tory about Labour under Ed Miliband, but perhaps Scots see it differently.
Liberals are just lying toads and irrelevant. Labour are now seen as just Red Tories from Scottish viewpoint , not a cigarette paper between them. Murphy in particular is seen as a Blairite Tory , self seeking , greedy , me me arse.
Some advice from McTernan for Slab - should they choose to take it
"The lesson? Play to your own strengths, not to your opponent’s. It’s not rocket salad, as an irate woman once said at a public meeting I attended. The SNP are busy constructing a myth that Scotland is a wildly Left-wing, working-class country. It is not. As the referendum result showed, it is a solidly middle-class, and – dare one say it – moderate Unionist country. "
stupid enough to believe Westminster politicians and Labour ones in particular.
But not as stupid as those who believed in a plan built on $110/barrel oil........
Oil was just the spare petty cash , irrelevant in the grand scheme of things
It's interesting the BBC are reporting the age and sex of the people arrested in South Manchester, but not their ethnic group. I wonder why.
For the bbc and left leaning politicians to admit the causes of what was going on would be tantamount to admitting they have been wrong on social issues in the country for 40 odd years... it isn't going to happen
Look how hard it is to get party loyalists with nothing but saving face on an internet blog to admit they were wrong... why would someone whose career is at stake do it?
It includes the method for working it out, which shouldn't be beyond the countries top politicians
Don't you start with the strawman of "Dave didn't know exactly the amount".. no one is saying he did, but he shouldn't have been surprised it was a big amount
To be fair, he wasn't surprised, he just pretended he was to score points by looking angry
You're comparing your delight at EdM besting Cameron IYO. What you loved about that has nothing to do with how a Labour man like @BenM is feeling.
You've left your Political Husband and run off with a Trophy Wife and love telling everyone why she's so much sexier and smarter. You're delighted about it and feel very clever. So do all her friends.
@BenM is worried his Arranged Marriage Husband is a dork who will never make the grade - his friends are anxious too and now starting to say so out loud.
Cameron is entirely incidental to you - you want to show Labour that your lawn is a lot greener.
I'm lost about your point. You've already left and become an advocate for AN Other. You're triumphalist about it. What turns you on isn't this.
@BenM is Grieving Party Man who wants to be reassured. Quite different motivations/emotions going on there.
That's my PR/Marketing persona diagnosis. It's not very attractive as a form of professional manipulation, but I'm upfront about it. Like a prostitute not kissing a client.
Well I didn't say it included the amount so you've hardly nailed the argument have you? Just answered your own question.
I also didn't say it was a killer blow.... just observed that Cameron was evasive in the HofC about it yesterday when questioned by Ed Miliband.. which he was
Just more proof that he is a slippery salesman rather than a conviction politician.. so 90s
You're comparing your delight at EdM besting Cameron IYO. What you loved about that has nothing to do with how a Labour man like @BenM is feeling.
You've left your Political Husband and run off with a Trophy Wife and love telling everyone why she's so much sexier and smarter. You're delighted about it and feel very clever. So do all her friends.
@BenM is worried his Arranged Marriage Husband is a dork who will never make the grade - his friends are anxious too and now starting to say so out loud.
Cameron is entirely incidental to you - you want to show Labour that your lawn is a lot greener.
I'm lost about your point. You've already left and become an advocate for AN Other. You're triumphalist about it. What turns you on isn't this.
@BenM is Grieving Party Man who wants to be reassured. Quite different motivations/emotions going on there.
That's my PR/Marketing persona diagnosis. It's not very attractive as a form of professional manipulation, but I'm upfront about it. Like a prostitute not kissing a client.
"There is no obstacle to two male MPs emerging as leader and deputy leader of the Scottish Labour Party, according to interim leader Anas Sarwar.
Mr Sarwar, who represents Glasgow Central at Westminster, has ruled himself out of the leadership contest but said he intends to continue as deputy leader."
You're comparing your delight at EdM besting Cameron IYO. What you loved about that has nothing to do with how a Labour man like @BenM is feeling.
You've left your Political Husband and run off with a Trophy Wife and love telling everyone why she's so much sexier and smarter. You're delighted about it and feel very clever. So do all her friends.
@BenM is worried his Arranged Marriage Husband is a dork who will never make the grade - his friends are anxious too and now starting to say so out loud.
Cameron is entirely incidental to you - you want to show Labour that your lawn is a lot greener.
I am not sure I agree with the analysis, but I love the metaphors....
Indeed. It was humbling hearing him on the radio this morning. A real hero.
The full story is awe inspiring, breathtaking.
The kids were whisked away from their families and dumped, literally, on Liverpool Street station, where haphazard attempts were made to match them up with foster parents, about whom little was known. The contrast with modern fostering could not be more extreme. Obviously not every match was a brilliant success but any reservations about the process are swept aside by the fact that every single one of the kids that didn't make the last train out of Czechoslavakia (Sept 1st 1939) died at the hands of the Nazis, as did all their parents.
The number who escaped and their descendants now runs into thousands. Every one owes their life to Nicholas Winton. The story moves me to tears still, even as I type this.
There is a small and unobtrusive statue at Liverpool Street station commemorating his work. Check it out if you ever get the chance.
It includes the method for working it out, which shouldn't be beyond the countries top politicians
Don't you start with the strawman of "Dave didn't know exactly the amount".. no one is saying he did, but he shouldn't have been surprised it was a big amount
To be fair, he wasn't surprised, he just pretended he was to score points by looking angry
Apparently the ONS even worked out the figure!!!
repetez s'il vous plait
repetez si'l vous plait
Shouldn't that be "s'il vous plait"? Not "si'l vous plait"!
Mr. Punter, that's very odd. I hope when the house has new owners a second approach is made.
One would've thought a blue plaque would increase the value, as well as honouring a British hero.
I always thought it means the process of trying to get over the thwarts when moving in the fore and aft direction in such a boat - banging one's knees and all that.
"The Greens can have their say in 2015 Along with Ukip, the Green party represents a protest vote that is a threat to the big two parties at next year’s general election"
Miss Plato, I did not know that. 'tis a good word.
Mr. Antifrank, ah. Reminds me, exercise time in about an hour. Tried to cycle a bit yesterday but had to stop (not my hip, for once. My big toe's been a bit sensitive and it was uncomfortable feeling the strap press down on the shoe, which pressed on the nail). Hoping it won't make abs/pressups awkward.
Mr. Isam, if I get a note from my bank that the overdraft charge will go up, and then it turns out to have risen from 5% to 1,250% the story is not that I didn't pay enough attention, it's that the bank is behaving outrageously.
It includes the method for working it out, which shouldn't be beyond the countries top politicians
Don't you start with the strawman of "Dave didn't know exactly the amount".. no one is saying he did, but he shouldn't have been surprised it was a big amount
To be fair, he wasn't surprised, he just pretended he was to score points by looking angry
Apparently the ONS even worked out the figure!!!
repetez s'il vous plait
repetez si'l vous plait
Shouldn't that be "s'il vous plait"? Not "si'l vous plait"!
(first ever PB Grammar Nazi post in French?)
That's a very very subtle grammar nazi point you may or may not be trying to make there Sunil.
Oddly, I was relating Sir Nicholas Winton's actions yesterday morning to my PT (who as an Italian had never heard of him but had seen the kindertransport statue on Liverpool St station). I was trying to recall whether he was still alive. It's nice to see that sometimes the good don't die young.
If he didn't know the large bill was coming it is incompetence
How was he supposed to guess the numbers 6 months in advance?
Jesus, how many times?
No one has said he should have guessed the exact numbers, that is an argument that you are making to argue back at
It is like your energy company sending an email in January, explaining the way bills are worked out is changing, and that it will likely make your bill higher
Cameron didn't bother to read the email, and is now shocked that he has a high energy bill... the EU are just pointing out that they sent the email in January
Although the likely truth is that he did read the email, but wants to make political capital out of staged anger with the EU to try and win back ex Tories tempted by UKIP
It includes the method for working it out, which shouldn't be beyond the countries top politicians
Don't you start with the strawman of "Dave didn't know exactly the amount".. no one is saying he did, but he shouldn't have been surprised it was a big amount
To be fair, he wasn't surprised, he just pretended he was to score points by looking angry
Apparently the ONS even worked out the figure!!!
repetez s'il vous plait
repetez si'l vous plait
Shouldn't that be "s'il vous plait"? Not "si'l vous plait"!
(first ever PB Grammar Nazi post in French?)
That's a very very subtle grammar nazi point you may or may not be trying to make there Sunil.
(I'll say yes?)
Probably, though it's possible French grammar might have discussed some time in the distant past on here...
Miss Plato, I did not know that. 'tis a good word.
Mr. Antifrank, ah. Reminds me, exercise time in about an hour. Tried to cycle a bit yesterday but had to stop (not my hip, for once. My big toe's been a bit sensitive and it was uncomfortable feeling the strap press down on the shoe, which pressed on the nail). Hoping it won't make abs/pressups awkward.
Mr. Isam, if I get a note from my bank that the overdraft charge will go up, and then it turns out to have risen from 5% to 1,250% the story is not that I didn't pay enough attention, it's that the bank is behaving outrageously.
Oh was it a fixed rate that they have changed then? How much should the bill have been?
We keep on disagreeing with Ashcroft's published %-ages when we calculate ELBOW (and using the ICM-style spiral of silence adjustment for "Don't know"/"Refused" in his tables).
I do it a lot in my dealings with others. It can be a bit weird TBH though. I find it most useful to show what's going on behind the words/behaviour. And make it uncomfortable = that's the only way to fix it.
Mentionistis is my favourite. When you talk about something/someone you don't care about much...supposedly. It's a dead giveaway. Especially cheating spouses and hobby-horses.
You're comparing your delight at EdM besting Cameron IYO. What you loved about that has nothing to do with how a Labour man like @BenM is feeling.
You've left your Political Husband and run off with a Trophy Wife and love telling everyone why she's so much sexier and smarter. You're delighted about it and feel very clever. So do all her friends.
@BenM is worried his Arranged Marriage Husband is a dork who will never make the grade - his friends are anxious too and now starting to say so out loud.
Cameron is entirely incidental to you - you want to show Labour that your lawn is a lot greener.
I am not sure I agree with the analysis, but I love the metaphors....
We keep on disagreeing with Ashcroft's published %-ages when we calculate ELBOW (and using the ICM-style spiral of silence adjustment for "Don't know"/"Refused" in his tables).
Mr. Isam, if you want to attack Cameron or the evil Tories, just pick a valid topic. It's not hard. Aid spending's ridiculous, energy policy inept, public spending remains excessive etc etc.
This is not a valid attack line, though I'm sure Miliband's delighted that he's got your support for Operation Sly Weasel, whereby he keeps seemingly horrific information secret and then releases it at the time of maximum opportunism.
Dr. Prasannan, fair enough. I still don't know (beyond copying and pasting) how to get those in OpenOffice.
No one has said he should have guessed the exact numbers
It is like your energy company sending an email in January, explaining the way bills are worked out is changing, and that it will likely make your bill higher
So the number would have been a surprise, as he could not have known it in advance. Glad we got that cleared up. Again.
Any views from our Northern friends? I think I can guess malcolmg's.
Boyack's more or less sensible and unlike so many of her comrades, not entirely consumed by SNP hatred. However if she has the inspirational & leadership powers to revitalise a party, her light has been pretty well hidden under a bushel thus far.
No one has said he should have guessed the exact numbers
It is like your energy company sending an email in January, explaining the way bills are worked out is changing, and that it will likely make your bill higher
So the number would have been a surprise, as he could not have known it in advance. Glad we got that cleared up. Again.
Did the letter say "likely higher"?
The "actual number" argument is you talking to yourself... why bother?
The method used to work out the bill was known.. your argument is "it said 2+2, how where we meant to know it was 4?"
You and @MorrisDancer are the only people bothering to defend this by the way.. Cameron and Redwood today both adopted the "it doesn't matter when we should have known, we have to deal with the here and now" line.. which basically means " we messed up lets try and polish a turd"
ie Miliband got the better of him yesterday, which was all I said in the first place
Mr. Punter, that's very odd. I hope when the house has new owners a second approach is made.
One would've thought a blue plaque would increase the value, as well as honouring a British hero.
I always thought it means the process of trying to get over the thwarts when moving in the fore and aft direction in such a boat - banging one's knees and all that.
No one has said he should have guessed the exact numbers
It is like your energy company sending an email in January, explaining the way bills are worked out is changing, and that it will likely make your bill higher
So the number would have been a surprise, as he could not have known it in advance. Glad we got that cleared up. Again.
Did the letter say "likely higher"?
The "actual number" argument is you talking to yourself... why bother?
The method used to work out the bill was known.. your argument is "it said 2+2, how where we meant to know it was 4?"
You and @MorrisDancer are the only people bothering to defend this by the way.. Cameron and Redwood today both adopted the "it doesn't matter when we should have known, we have to deal with the here and now" line.. which basically means " we messed up lets try and polish a turd"
ie Miliband got the better of him yesterday, which was all I said in the first place
Any views from our Northern friends? I think I can guess malcolmg's.
Boyack's more or less sensible and unlike so many of her comrades, not entirely consumed by SNP hatred. However if she has the inspirational & leadership powers to revitalise a party, her light has been pretty well hidden under a bushel thus far.
Much obliged. Sounds like a 7/1 shot provided Murphy & Findlay both run
No one has said he should have guessed the exact numbers
It is like your energy company sending an email in January, explaining the way bills are worked out is changing, and that it will likely make your bill higher
So the number would have been a surprise, as he could not have known it in advance. Glad we got that cleared up. Again.
Did the letter say "likely higher"?
The "actual number" argument is you talking to yourself... why bother?
The method used to work out the bill was known.. your argument is "it said 2+2, how where we meant to know it was 4?"
You and @MorrisDancer are the only people bothering to defend this by the way.. Cameron and Redwood today both adopted the "it doesn't matter when we should have known, we have to deal with the here and now" line.. which basically means " we messed up lets try and polish a turd"
ie Miliband got the better of him yesterday, which was all I said in the first place
Err that wasn't quite my reading of it.
Redwood was holding the Brisky line.
Perhaps even you are...
Redwood said this when it was pointed out that the treasury knew about it in March
"I don't know the comings and goings but I don't think its the main issue... the timing of when we found out is more or less irrelevant"
No one has said he should have guessed the exact numbers
It is like your energy company sending an email in January, explaining the way bills are worked out is changing, and that it will likely make your bill higher
So the number would have been a surprise, as he could not have known it in advance. Glad we got that cleared up. Again.
Did the letter say "likely higher"?
The "actual number" argument is you talking to yourself... why bother?
The method used to work out the bill was known.. your argument is "it said 2+2, how where we meant to know it was 4?"
You and @MorrisDancer are the only people bothering to defend this by the way.. Cameron and Redwood today both adopted the "it doesn't matter when we should have known, we have to deal with the here and now" line.. which basically means " we messed up lets try and polish a turd"
ie Miliband got the better of him yesterday, which was all I said in the first place
Err that wasn't quite my reading of it.
Redwood was holding the Brisky line.
Perhaps even you are...
Redwood said this when it was pointed out that the treasury knew about it in March
"I don't know the comings and goings but I don't think its the main issue... the timing of when we found out is more or less irrelevant"
I sincerely would like to know what tim thinks of it all. All we have these days is bobajob and smarmeron who, quite frankly and no offence, seem to be more at home on CiF.
Yes, an update on the NewsSense™ list of ways in which Osborne is going to lose the next election would be entertaining in light of his ever improving numbers
Oh tim was wrong much of the time but he was right a lot also and, critically, his was the essence of left/Lab thinking so at least we had a fast-track into their mindset.
Tim though was a Blairite and I have a feeling he knew Ed was a duffer. Talking of Blairites if Scot Lab don't choose Murphy they will deserve the fall they will undoubtedly get.
Also if they choose Murphy they will get the fall they deserve, just bigger. People will not vote Red Tories in
Are they viewed as Red Tories just because of their unionism? Are Liberal Democrats yellow Tories, for instance?
I can't see anything vaguely Tory about Labour under Ed Miliband, but perhaps Scots see it differently.
Liberals are just lying toads and irrelevant. Labour are now seen as just Red Tories from Scottish viewpoint , not a cigarette paper between them. Murphy in particular is seen as a Blairite Tory , self seeking , greedy , me me arse.
Some advice from McTernan for Slab - should they choose to take it
"The lesson? Play to your own strengths, not to your opponent’s. It’s not rocket salad, as an irate woman once said at a public meeting I attended. The SNP are busy constructing a myth that Scotland is a wildly Left-wing, working-class country. It is not. As the referendum result showed, it is a solidly middle-class, and – dare one say it – moderate Unionist country. "
It's hard to take advice from a guy that was telling us (back in 2011) that the SNP would never, ever actually hold a independence referendum.
Ok, the papers are full of Ed's great triumph over Dave. His backbenchers cheered him to the rafters. Labour supporters are bouyed and happy.
Oh, wait, none of those things happened.
Sorry, I wont leave this.
I never said he did know the number.. I don't know why you keep making that a factor
The treasury knew how the figure was going to be worked out, and given that our economy was doing better than a lot of those on the continent, it shouldn't have been a surprise that the bill was high.
I haven't read the papers, but I saw with my own eyes Miliband pointing this out to him... Daves response? To talk about when the two Eds were in government and say they were no better.
Now he and Redwood are saying it doesn't matter when they knew, the bill is too high... making my point for me, while you flounder around trying to argue something the government have already accepted
Redwood: ""I don't know the comings and goings but I don't think its the main issue... the timing of when we found out is more or less irrelevant""
@DavidL - I've gone for Giff-Gaff as I've just discovered my Xperia Z3c needs a nano SIM. Golly, this techie fiddly stuff is getting wearing. And I used to be an early adopter. Must be my age ;^)
Comments
If people vote less automatically on tribal grounds then hopefully they will take a little time to consider the qualities of the candidates and vote for the best candidate rather than a particular party.
I had an argument about this with an American elsewhere - she's a grammar geek and didn't mind it failing the logic test.
Thankfully, we agreed on the misuse of *irony* - it happens a LOT when it's confused with funny coincidence.
Only 42% of eligible voters chose Labour or Tory in 2010... it was 70%+ in the 1960s and 70s
"Today, anyone with an internet connection can, in a few seconds, buy just about anything in the world and have it delivered to their door in days. They can watch TV and movies from almost any country, read the news from tens of thousands of outlets. They can choose.
And given choices, people tend to use them. We have all become promiscuous in our shopping, eating and viewing habits. Marketing experts used to find it fairly easy to divide people according to their preferred supermarket. But now, Waitrose people shop in Lidl, too. Brand loyalty is history and even giants such as Tesco struggle to keep up with consumers spoilt for choice. And just try explaining to the YouTube generation that not too long ago, televisions had only three channels.
Voters shop around too. In 1951, Labour and the Conservatives took 96 per cent of all votes. In 2010 it was 65 per cent. Barely 20 per cent of under-25s say they identify with a political party. Ipsos Mori this week forecast that within a decade, fewer than a quarter of all voters will feel a connection with any one political party. The electorate is more volatile, less reliable. As many as one in five people who voted for the Scottish National Party in parliamentary elections last week voted No to the party’s existential aim of Scottish independence"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11118860/Voters-are-going-to-shop-around-from-now-on.html
They need to sell themselves to @BenM et al.
and I stopped voting Labour and joined UKIP 3 years ago!
@BenM is Grieving Party Man who wants to be reassured. Quite different motivations/emotions going on there.
That's my PR/Marketing persona diagnosis. It's not very attractive as a form of professional manipulation, but I'm upfront about it. Like a prostitute not kissing a client.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/lets-have-british-justice--not-the-eus-9819682.html
So why the synthetic anger from Dave?
Just to re-cap the latest weekly ELBOW (26th October)
Lab 33.4 (-0.3)
Con 32.3 (+1.1)
UKIP 15.9 (-1.2)
LD 7.3 (-0.6)
Lab lead 1.1 (-1.4)
Now, Lord Sunil has authorised release of a "part-ELBOW" for the four polls with fieldwork ending between the 26th and today (sample size 3,631):
Lab 32.6 (-0.7)
Con 32.1 (-0.1)
UKIP 16.4 (+0.5)
LD 8.1 (+0.8)
Lab lead 0.5 (-0.6)
He's truly sensational. He operated from 20 Willow Road, Hampstead, NW3. The owners were approached a while back about having one of those Blue Plaques on the front of the house to celebrate this outstanding former resident. They declined, presumably concerned it would lower the tone.
You get some funny folk in Hampstead.
One would've thought a blue plaque would increase the value, as well as honouring a British hero.
See yesterday's thread, and tomorrow's, all the way until Dec 1st.
Don't you start with the strawman of "Dave didn't know exactly the amount".. no one is saying he did, but he shouldn't have been surprised it was a big amount
To be fair, he wasn't surprised, he just pretended he was to score points by looking angry
Look how hard it is to get party loyalists with nothing but saving face on an internet blog to admit they were wrong... why would someone whose career is at stake do it?
http://ericjoyce.co.uk/2014/10/in-other-news/
Not sure that Guido takes the same line as EJ.
It's not a killer blow, or even a telling one.
It's utterly beside the point.
Edited extra bit: Mr. Antifrank, what's PT?
repetez s'il vous plait
repetez si'l vous plait
Once more - with feeling-
EU Bill:
1.7Bn Gbp
Britain replies: F*ck your Shit!
(genuinely don't know, just asking)
You've left your Political Husband and run off with a Trophy Wife and love telling everyone why she's so much sexier and smarter. You're delighted about it and feel very clever. So do all her friends.
@BenM is worried his Arranged Marriage Husband is a dork who
will never make the grade - his friends are anxious too and now starting to say so out loud.
Cameron is entirely incidental to you - you want to show Labour that your lawn is a lot greener.
I also didn't say it was a killer blow.... just observed that Cameron was evasive in the HofC about it yesterday when questioned by Ed Miliband.. which he was
Just more proof that he is a slippery salesman rather than a conviction politician.. so 90s
Now he was just "evasive"
Neither of which are actually supported by the letter you keep waving.
"There is no obstacle to two male MPs emerging as leader and deputy leader of the Scottish Labour Party, according to interim leader Anas Sarwar.
Mr Sarwar, who represents Glasgow Central at Westminster, has ruled himself out of the leadership contest but said he intends to continue as deputy leader."
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/sarwar-theres-no-obstacle-to-two-mps-emerging-as-leader-and-deputy-of-the.1414494726
I suppose he would be keen to push that point of view if he thinks Mr Murphy will get the [edit: leader's] job.
Please avoid using the F-word in your posts!
The full story is awe inspiring, breathtaking.
The kids were whisked away from their families and dumped, literally, on Liverpool Street station, where haphazard attempts were made to match them up with foster parents, about whom little was known. The contrast with modern fostering could not be more extreme. Obviously not every match was a brilliant success but any reservations about the process are swept aside by the fact that every single one of the kids that didn't make the last train out of Czechoslavakia (Sept 1st 1939) died at the hands of the Nazis, as did all their parents.
The number who escaped and their descendants now runs into thousands. Every one owes their life to Nicholas Winton. The story moves me to tears still, even as I type this.
There is a small and unobtrusive statue at Liverpool Street station commemorating his work. Check it out if you ever get the chance.
If he didn't know the large bill was coming it is incompetence
If he did but acted angry as if he didn't it is pathetic showmanship
Get his nob out of your gob
I'm guessing that to *be thwarted* means being told to sit still when you want to rock the boat - literally.
Not "si'l vous plait"!
(first ever PB Grammar Nazi post in French?)
"The Greens can have their say in 2015
Along with Ukip, the Green party represents a protest vote that is a threat to the big two parties at next year’s general election"
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/27/green-party-2015-ukip-protest-vote-general-election
Mr. Antifrank, ah. Reminds me, exercise time in about an hour. Tried to cycle a bit yesterday but had to stop (not my hip, for once. My big toe's been a bit sensitive and it was uncomfortable feeling the strap press down on the shoe, which pressed on the nail). Hoping it won't make abs/pressups awkward.
Mr. Isam, if I get a note from my bank that the overdraft charge will go up, and then it turns out to have risen from 5% to 1,250% the story is not that I didn't pay enough attention, it's that the bank is behaving outrageously.
(I'll say yes?)
No one has said he should have guessed the exact numbers, that is an argument that you are making to argue back at
It is like your energy company sending an email in January, explaining the way bills are worked out is changing, and that it will likely make your bill higher
Cameron didn't bother to read the email, and is now shocked that he has a high energy bill... the EU are just pointing out that they sent the email in January
Although the likely truth is that he did read the email, but wants to make political capital out of staged anger with the EU to try and win back ex Tories tempted by UKIP
Merci beaucoup
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/27/uk-mediterranean-migrant-rescue-plan?commentpage=1
For his latest poll, we get
Lab 31
Con 31
UKIP 17 (not 18)
LD 8 (not 7)
I do it a lot in my dealings with others. It can be a bit weird TBH though. I find it most useful to show what's going on behind the words/behaviour. And make it uncomfortable = that's the only way to fix it.
Mentionistis is my favourite. When you talk about something/someone you don't care about much...supposedly. It's a dead giveaway. Especially cheating spouses and hobby-horses.
This is not a valid attack line, though I'm sure Miliband's delighted that he's got your support for Operation Sly Weasel, whereby he keeps seemingly horrific information secret and then releases it at the time of maximum opportunism.
Dr. Prasannan, fair enough. I still don't know (beyond copying and pasting) how to get those in OpenOffice.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/mp-eric-joyce-arrested-allegedly-4521911
Such a shame he's not able to put himself up as leader of SLAB.
Did the letter say "likely higher"?
BREAKING: @SarahBoyackMSP confirms she is to stand as @scottishlabour leader: first declared candidate
Any views from our Northern friends? I think I can guess malcolmg's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Boyack
Boyack's more or less sensible and unlike so many of her comrades, not entirely consumed by SNP hatred. However if she has the inspirational & leadership powers to revitalise a party, her light has been pretty well hidden under a bushel thus far.
The method used to work out the bill was known.. your argument is "it said 2+2, how where we meant to know it was 4?"
You and @MorrisDancer are the only people bothering to defend this by the way.. Cameron and Redwood today both adopted the "it doesn't matter when we should have known, we have to deal with the here and now" line.. which basically means " we messed up lets try and polish a turd"
ie Miliband got the better of him yesterday, which was all I said in the first place
It's free to download as out of copyright.
Redwood was holding the Brisky line.
Perhaps even you are...
But I linked it first!!!
Unless he could guess the numbers, knowing the method does not help you work out the final figure.
You admit he didn't know the numbers. Get over it. Ok, the papers are full of Ed's great triumph over Dave. His backbenchers cheered him to the rafters. Labour supporters are bouyed and happy.
Oh, wait, none of those things happened.
"I don't know the comings and goings but I don't think its the main issue... the timing of when we found out is more or less irrelevant"
I never said he did know the number.. I don't know why you keep making that a factor
The treasury knew how the figure was going to be worked out, and given that our economy was doing better than a lot of those on the continent, it shouldn't have been a surprise that the bill was high.
I haven't read the papers, but I saw with my own eyes Miliband pointing this out to him... Daves response? To talk about when the two Eds were in government and say they were no better.
Now he and Redwood are saying it doesn't matter when they knew, the bill is too high... making my point for me, while you flounder around trying to argue something the government have already accepted
Redwood: ""I don't know the comings and goings but I don't think its the main issue... the timing of when we found out is more or less irrelevant""
This myth that Norway is just another EU member without the influence is simply rubbish.
Anyway, UKIP's position is apparently to leave the EU but not to remain a member of the EEA either. So the point is moot.