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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Tories are right to take heart from today’s YouGov lead

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Comments

  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    Give it up

    LAB lead amongst workers

    Tory lead with pensioners (benefits)

    Which category are you in?

    You don't like what IPSOS-MORI tell you?

    I'm a private sector worker, a homeowner and I have decades until I get a pension, not that any of that is your business.



  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    taffys said:

    Labour supporters relying on the polls reminds me of the hero of the Scottish play relying on the witches.

    Burham Wood come to Dunsinane???....not in this lifetime mate...

    Wheras Tories relying on the one poll that puts them 1 pt ahead despite all the others showing them to be behind.

    Is a lot like YES

    independence (tory win) clearly nailed on
    There's currently two pollsters whose last poll has the Tories ahead.
    Which one have I missed?

    Saw YG last night
  • The YouGov that will be published in the Sunday Times will have fieldwork of 5pm Thursday to 3pmish today.

    I expect we'll get the Ipsos-Mori next week, and the ICM for the Guardian a week on Monday.

    Let's see what those phone polls show.
  • taffys said:

    Labour supporters relying on the polls reminds me of the hero of the Scottish play relying on the witches.

    Burham Wood come to Dunsinane???....not in this lifetime mate...

    Wheras Tories relying on the one poll that puts them 1 pt ahead despite all the others showing them to be behind.

    Is a lot like YES

    independence (tory win) clearly nailed on
    There's currently two pollsters whose last poll has the Tories ahead.
    Which one have I missed?

    Saw YG last night
    The Ipsos-Mori poll that was out a few weeks ago.
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    edited October 2014
    Interesting that inside a couple of weeks there has been two relatively unusual YouGov polls which, rather happily, managed to coincide and support the political agenda of the Murdoch newspaper publishing them!
  • There's currently two pollsters whose last poll has the Tories ahead.

    During the Tory conference. By 1pt. Last week's Labour conference saw Labour leads of 6pts. Next week will show the yellow pox up.

    Have some people forgotten the basic maxim - polls during conference season are skewed.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    edited October 2014
    BenM said:

    Inside a couple of weeks there has been two relatively unusual YouGov polls which, rather happily, managed to coincide and support the political agenda of the Murdoch newspaper paying for them!

    I'm just saying.

    So how do you explain the ICM phone poll for the Guardian, that had No, barely ahead, and the ICM online poll for the Telegraph which had Yes ahead by 8%

    Both those papers wanted Scotland to remain in the Union.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534

    BenM said:

    The populus Lab share this morning looks remarkably like the Yougov Lab share from just 48 hours ago.

    What happened to YouGov yesterday?

    Just saying.

    When was the populus research done?
    Most of the Yougov polling will have been done yesterday. The Populus polling will be more evenly divided between the two days.


  • There's currently two pollsters whose last poll has the Tories ahead.

    During the Tory conference. By 1pt. Last week's Labour conference saw Labour leads of 6pts. Next week will show the yellow pox up.

    Have some people forgotten the basic maxim - polls during conference season are skewed.

    Err no, one of those polls was conducted before the conference season.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    chestnut said:

    Give it up

    LAB lead amongst workers

    Tory lead with pensioners (benefits)

    Which category are you in?

    You don't like what IPSOS-MORI tell you?

    I'm a private sector worker, a homeowner and I have decades until I get a pension, not that any of that is your business.



    You mean the one that shows workers back LAB?

    and the majority on benefits in the form of pensions back the Tories?


  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    ... the ICM for the Guardian a week on Monday.

    Fieldwork in the wake of the Clacton by-election result?

    That should be an amusing poll.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    The most recent findings from each company have:-

    Populus Lab 38, Con 33
    Yougov Con 35, Lab 34
    Com Res Lab 35, Con 29,
    Ahcroft Lab 32, Con 32,
    Opinium Lab 34, Con 32,

    Averaging Lab 34.6%, Con 32.2%.
  • My first comment here rather than just reading the blog etc.

    Anyone else noticed that today's YouGov shows 23% of 2010 LDs said CON (with 29% LAB, 9% UKIP)?

    Compare to 25 Sep YouGov which had a 6 point LAB lead. There only 8% 2010 LDs said CON, 35% LAB, 14% UKIP.

    Enough to (partially) explain the swing?

    If this 23% is sustained (and it's not reflected in Populus, which has only 8% of 2010 LDs saying CON, and on a random look through past YouGovs I can't find a comparable figure), it would give the Tories a comparable "electoral crutch" to Labour. Suspect it won't be though and that 23% will be a blip.
  • Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    Sunday Herald was the paper to back Yes, the Herald firmly backed a No.
    Amazing the ignorance shown on here by some of those who insist on pronouncing on matters Scottish.
  • ... the ICM for the Guardian a week on Monday.

    Fieldwork in the wake of the Clacton by-election result?

    That should be an amusing poll.
    And the Heywood and Middleton result as well.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    TOPPING said:

    Plato said:

    Golly - apparently they had a Falklands number plate on it. What a hoot!

    Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and Richard May flee Argentina under police escort after locals stone cars and Top Gear crew in a row over a Porsche number plate
    Not quite - It was a UK number plate that ended with the letters FKL according to the T'graph.
    H982 FKL

    I mean it's a lot worse than G4 VIN if you are called Gavin but personalised plates that try to approximate names, etc are all pretty naff.

    My favorite story (no idea if it is urban myth) is that the Queen owns all the licence plates beginning XHM and gives them out to her friends as appropriate (Constantine of Greece is is XHM1, Giray Khan of Crimea is XHM2, etc etc). I was told it by Giray Khan's grandson, but he may have been making it up...
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453


    Amazing the ignorance shown on here by some of those who insist on pronouncing on matters Scottish.

    Like Stuart Dickson?

    Oh...
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Sean_F said:

    The most recent findings from each company have:-

    Populus Lab 38, Con 33
    Yougov Con 35, Lab 34
    Com Res Lab 35, Con 29,
    Ahcroft Lab 32, Con 32,
    Opinium Lab 34, Con 32,

    Averaging Lab 34.6%, Con 32.2%.

    I think I will update that on a regular basis just to see who would be PM!!!
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928

    There's currently two pollsters whose last poll has the Tories ahead.

    During the Tory conference. By 1pt. Last week's Labour conference saw Labour leads of 6pts. Next week will show the yellow pox up.

    Have some people forgotten the basic maxim - polls during conference season are skewed.

    Do they get a conference bounce any more? Or does having Clegg in the news defending a largely blue government tend to send them even further backwards?
  • Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    Sunday Herald was the paper to back Yes, the Herald firmly backed a No.
    Amazing the ignorance shown on here by some of those who insist on pronouncing on matters Scottish.
    Tipping point?
  • There's currently two pollsters whose last poll has the Tories ahead.

    During the Tory conference. By 1pt. Last week's Labour conference saw Labour leads of 6pts. Next week will show the yellow pox up.

    Have some people forgotten the basic maxim - polls during conference season are skewed.

    Do they get a conference bounce any more? Or does having Clegg in the news defending a largely blue government tend to send them even further backwards?
    Normally they do, and normally they go first however this conference season they are going last.

    (It is the fault of the indyref)
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    The striking thing about that Yougov 'rogue' tory lead wasn;t the tory number at 35, it was the UKIP number at 14 at the same time.

    That's half the electorate, right there.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821
    Our 'moderate' militants cover themselves in glory by massacring children in Homs:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k0ChgK4jYw#t=89
    These are the nice ones we're getting Saudi Arabia to train 15,000 more of.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Penguin, welcome to (posting on) pb.com.
  • Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    Sunday Herald was the paper to back Yes, the Herald firmly backed a No.
    Amazing the ignorance shown on here by some of those who insist on pronouncing on matters Scottish.
    Tipping point?
    The PB echo..
  • Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    Sunday Herald was the paper to back Yes, the Herald firmly backed a No.
    Amazing the ignorance shown on here by some of those who insist on pronouncing on matters Scottish.
    Simply amazing ignorance;
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/cultural-policies-lead-irvine-welsh-to-back-snp-1.827460
    I'm still waiting for an apology.
  • Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    Sunday Herald was the paper to back Yes, the Herald firmly backed a No.
    Amazing the ignorance shown on here by some of those who insist on pronouncing on matters Scottish.
    Mr Divvie - what is your current prediction for Scotland at GE 2015?
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    You mean the one that shows workers back LAB?

    You must be looking at something very different to me if that's what you can see.

    I'm looking at September's Vote Intention from their Political Monitor. Table 4, Page 4.


  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    ... the ICM for the Guardian a week on Monday.

    Fieldwork in the wake of the Clacton by-election result?

    That should be an amusing poll.
    And the Heywood and Middleton result as well.
    If the Heywood and Middleton result features in more media coverage than the Clacton result then that will only make the ICM poll even more hilarious.

    The September ICM is the only poll since Populus in July that had UKIP on less than 10%, and the last three ICM polls have been distinctive in giving the Lib Dems a poll share lead over UKIP. The June ICM, the first following UKIPs triumph at the European elections in May, had UKIP leading the Lib Dems by 16% - 10%.

    It seems sensible to anticipate a huge swing to UKIP in the October ICM poll.
  • Penguin said:

    My first comment here rather than just reading the blog etc.

    Anyone else noticed that today's YouGov shows 23% of 2010 LDs said CON (with 29% LAB, 9% UKIP)?

    Compare to 25 Sep YouGov which had a 6 point LAB lead. There only 8% 2010 LDs said CON, 35% LAB, 14% UKIP.

    Enough to (partially) explain the swing?

    If this 23% is sustained (and it's not reflected in Populus, which has only 8% of 2010 LDs saying CON, and on a random look through past YouGovs I can't find a comparable figure), it would give the Tories a comparable "electoral crutch" to Labour. Suspect it won't be though and that 23% will be a blip.

    I did notice that, what I compared it to was the August poll when the Tories and Lab were tied.

    Then it was 16% of 2010 Lib Dems who expressed a voting intention now planned to vote Tory (29% said they were voting Lab)

    http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/ey50z9xm3y/YG-Archive-Pol-Sun-results-140814.pdf
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    The PB echo..

    I think you nationalist posters got plenty right, and would like to know how many Westminster seats you think the SNP might win for 2015.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Sean_F said:

    The most recent findings from each company have:-

    Populus Lab 38, Con 33
    Yougov Con 35, Lab 34
    Com Res Lab 35, Con 29,
    Ahcroft Lab 32, Con 32,
    Opinium Lab 34, Con 32,

    Averaging Lab 34.6%, Con 32.2%.

    I think I will update that on a regular basis just to see who would be PM!!!
    Please don't.

    You already spam us with your EICIPM posts already which don't tell anyone anything. We all know applying poll numbers showing a Labour lead with UNS to electoral calculus show that outcome.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    edited October 2014

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    Sunday Herald was the paper to back Yes, the Herald firmly backed a No.
    Amazing the ignorance shown on here by some of those who insist on pronouncing on matters Scottish.
    Tipping point?
    The PB echo..
    So in other words, we PB Tories were right about what the Indyref result would be, unlike you Nats, who were on the ground.

    So our echo chamber was a damn sight more accurate than the Nat echo chamber.

    Keep listening to us, you Nats might learn something.

    Sorry to put the boot in, but even Rogerdamus, got the referendum result spot on.
  • Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    Sunday Herald was the paper to back Yes, the Herald firmly backed a No.
    Amazing the ignorance shown on here by some of those who insist on pronouncing on matters Scottish.
    Mr Divvie - what is your current prediction for Scotland at GE 2015?
    Down thread I said my gut guess at the moment is SNP 15-ish, Cons 2. I'd add LDs 3 and therefore suggest Lab 39ish, but very much blindfold dart throwing at this stage.
  • Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    Sunday Herald was the paper to back Yes, the Herald firmly backed a No.
    Amazing the ignorance shown on here by some of those who insist on pronouncing on matters Scottish.
    Simply amazing ignorance;
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/cultural-policies-lead-irvine-welsh-to-back-snp-1.827460
    I'm still waiting for an apology.
    And I responded at that time, though as is your wont, you then scuttled off. Your request remains lodged where the sun don't shine.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,033

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    Sunday Herald was the paper to back Yes, the Herald firmly backed a No.
    Amazing the ignorance shown on here by some of those who insist on pronouncing on matters Scottish.
    Tipping point?
    The PB echo..
    So in other words, we PB Tories were right about what the Indyref result would be, unlike you Nats, who were on the ground.

    So our echo chamber was a damn sight more accurate than the Nat echo chamber.

    Keep listening to us, you Nats might learn something.

    Sorry to put the boot in, but even Rogerdamus, got the referendum result spot on.
    I was told us PB Tories are always wrong and that we never learn...... Now I don't know what to think.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited October 2014

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    Sunday Herald was the paper to back Yes, the Herald firmly backed a No.
    Amazing the ignorance shown on here by some of those who insist on pronouncing on matters Scottish.
    Tipping point?
    The PB echo..
    So in other words, we PB Tories were right about what the Indyref result would be, unlike you Nats, who were on the ground.
    So our echo chamber was a damn sight more accurate than the Nat echo chamber. Keep listening to us, you Nats might learn something.
    Sorry to put the boot in, but even Rogerdamus, got the referendum result spot on.
    Roger is now king of forecasts for Scotland and the Oscars.
  • RobD said:

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    Sunday Herald was the paper to back Yes, the Herald firmly backed a No.
    Amazing the ignorance shown on here by some of those who insist on pronouncing on matters Scottish.
    Tipping point?
    The PB echo..
    So in other words, we PB Tories were right about what the Indyref result would be, unlike you Nats, who were on the ground.

    So our echo chamber was a damn sight more accurate than the Nat echo chamber.

    Keep listening to us, you Nats might learn something.

    Sorry to put the boot in, but even Rogerdamus, got the referendum result spot on.
    I was told us PB Tories are always wrong and that we never learn...... Now I don't know what to think.
    Can you make sure you're on a plane when the next few ICM phone polls are out.
  • Mike has just sent me a reply to a message I sent him

    "I think I'll go on holiday throughout May next year!"
  • Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    Sunday Herald was the paper to back Yes, the Herald firmly backed a No.
    Amazing the ignorance shown on here by some of those who insist on pronouncing on matters Scottish.
    Mr Divvie - what is your current prediction for Scotland at GE 2015?
    Down thread I said my gut guess at the moment is SNP 15-ish, Cons 2. I'd add LDs 3 and therefore suggest Lab 39ish, but very much blindfold dart throwing at this stage.
    Usual Nat pie in the sky;
    " Alex Salmond was humiliated after his predictions of increasing the number of SNP MPs from seven to 20 fell apart, with the Nationalists winning only six seats." 2010
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,033

    RobD said:

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    Sunday Herald was the paper to back Yes, the Herald firmly backed a No.
    Amazing the ignorance shown on here by some of those who insist on pronouncing on matters Scottish.
    Tipping point?
    The PB echo..
    So in other words, we PB Tories were right about what the Indyref result would be, unlike you Nats, who were on the ground.

    So our echo chamber was a damn sight more accurate than the Nat echo chamber.

    Keep listening to us, you Nats might learn something.

    Sorry to put the boot in, but even Rogerdamus, got the referendum result spot on.
    I was told us PB Tories are always wrong and that we never learn...... Now I don't know what to think.
    Can you make sure you're on a plane when the next few ICM phone polls are out.
    How else do you think I'm going to keep my double diamond super executive platinum status with the airline?? :')
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I knew a guy who had LEV IS on an ancient Jag. He owned our local video shop. I swear it was worth more than his annual turnover by a large margin.
    TOPPING said:

    Plato said:

    Golly - apparently they had a Falklands number plate on it. What a hoot!

    Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and Richard May flee Argentina under police escort after locals stone cars and Top Gear crew in a row over a Porsche number plate
    Not quite - It was a UK number plate that ended with the letters FKL according to the T'graph.
    H982 FKL

    I mean it's a lot worse than G4 VIN if you are called Gavin but personalised plates that try to approximate names, etc are all pretty naff.

  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Charles said:

    Sean_F said:

    The most recent findings from each company have:-

    Populus Lab 38, Con 33
    Yougov Con 35, Lab 34
    Com Res Lab 35, Con 29,
    Ahcroft Lab 32, Con 32,
    Opinium Lab 34, Con 32,

    Averaging Lab 34.6%, Con 32.2%.

    I think I will update that on a regular basis just to see who would be PM!!!
    Please don't.

    You already spam us with your EICIPM posts already which don't tell anyone anything. We all know applying poll numbers showing a Labour lead with UNS to electoral calculus show that outcome.
    Heartily seconded. My only real reaction to yougov last night was to hope that it would silence the village idiot.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    *laughing out loud - a lot*
    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    NEVER kick a man when he's down," my dad says.

    He'd make a terrible politician, my dad.

    "Is there ever a better time?" Alex Salmond's opponents seemed to grin as they laced up their best stomping boots for FMQs today.

    It was watch-through-your-fingers stuff.

    Haunted by the rustle of two million No votes, power draining away faster than the fun from a Yes Scotland results party, and even Nicola Sturgeon, absent on personal business, unable to whisper the answers to him, all the FM lacked was a target on his back.

    The Unionists simply couldn't miss.

    So for 30 minutes Mr Salmond was thrown down every circle of political hell until eventually he hit rock bottom - being lectured by Ken Macintosh.
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/alex-salmond-opponents-put-the-boot-in-at-fmqs.1412272399

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    RobD said:

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    Sunday Herald was the paper to back Yes, the Herald firmly backed a No.
    Amazing the ignorance shown on here by some of those who insist on pronouncing on matters Scottish.
    Tipping point?
    The PB echo..
    So in other words, we PB Tories were right about what the Indyref result would be, unlike you Nats, who were on the ground.

    So our echo chamber was a damn sight more accurate than the Nat echo chamber.

    Keep listening to us, you Nats might learn something.

    Sorry to put the boot in, but even Rogerdamus, got the referendum result spot on.
    I was told us PB Tories are always wrong and that we never learn...... Now I don't know what to think.
    You were wrong to believe that...
  • Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    Sunday Herald was the paper to back Yes, the Herald firmly backed a No.
    Amazing the ignorance shown on here by some of those who insist on pronouncing on matters Scottish.
    Simply amazing ignorance;
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/cultural-policies-lead-irvine-welsh-to-back-snp-1.827460
    I'm still waiting for an apology.
    And I responded at that time, though as is your wont, you then scuttled off. Your request remains lodged where the sun don't shine.
    You were wrong about expat longtime Nat Welsh, admit it.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    My comment on today's populus poll:
    I told you to wait till Monday.
  • Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    Sunday Herald was the paper to back Yes, the Herald firmly backed a No.
    Amazing the ignorance shown on here by some of those who insist on pronouncing on matters Scottish.
    Tipping point?
    The PB echo..
    So in other words, we PB Tories were right about what the Indyref result would be, unlike you Nats, who were on the ground.

    So our echo chamber was a damn sight more accurate than the Nat echo chamber.

    Keep listening to us, you Nats might learn something.

    Sorry to put the boot in, but even Rogerdamus, got the referendum result spot on.

    I don't remember 'you' making any predictions, but your use of the PB 'we' is very telling.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    UKIP on twitter pointing out that a vote for conservatives in H&M is a vote for Ed.

    You have to like the chutzpah...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,146
    edited October 2014

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    Sunday Herald was the paper to back Yes, the Herald firmly backed a No.
    Amazing the ignorance shown on here by some of those who insist on pronouncing on matters Scottish.
    Simply amazing ignorance;
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/cultural-policies-lead-irvine-welsh-to-back-snp-1.827460
    I'm still waiting for an apology.
    And I responded at that time, though as is your wont, you then scuttled off. Your request remains lodged where the sun don't shine.
    You were wrong about expat longtime Nat Welsh, admit it.
    God, you're tedious. At the second time of posting:

    'But after mouthing off about the Labour Party, it’s only fair that I make a personal declaration as to where my own politics lie today. Like most people, I’ve moved away from my tartan Tory perception of the SNP and accept it as a benign, bourgeois party of the centre-left. Yes, it’s nakedly opportunist, but that factor certainly doesn’t distinguish it in modern politics, and its fairly narrow goal of Scottish independence makes it harder for it to sell out. Nonetheless, its not my party, I’ve never voted for them and would find it hard to do so, for the same reasons I can no longer vote Labour and will obviously never vote Conservative – it’s not in my internationalist DNA. Having long given up on parties, I’m stuck with having my political aspirations for these islands placed squarely in the hands of a new, broadly-based, grass roots campaign led by a different generation, and I wouldn’t want it any other way. I’m now a dedicated ‘phase three’ yes man: let’s get it sorted out. But I want as many of my old buddies, and as many real Labour people on that journey as possible, and for bigger reasons than to deliver a yes vote for social progress on the 18th. That, as I’ve said, is only part of the process. I want them onside, because the core values that they believe in; fairness, justice and democracy, are the only values that a new Scotland -and a new England- can be constructed on.'

    http://tinyurl.com/londfkm
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I love the names for some paper sizes. The A* ones are so boring.

    Double Elephant is my personal favourite

    Part of my degree was in paper conservation - yeah, I know...

    I stopped interchanging Foolscap with A4 when I was taken literally by someone who knew his stationery onions and ended up with several reams the wrong size/hung over the edge of my A4 folder. A bit like a yard when you want a metre for a good reason.
    Charles said:

    Plato said:

    It's a very odd size - the sort that looks like A4 but isn't.

    Foolscap is lined, legal-size paper (a paper size found only in North America). It is called foolscap because, in the 18th century, folio-sized paper had the watermark of a fool's cap on it.

    In the UK, foolscap paper is 13" X 8" (c 330mm X 203mm), but paper of the size is now very rarely used, being superseded by A4 (297 x 210). Older people may call A4 "foolscap". Nevertheless, ring binders, lever arch files, suspended files, and other filing related things still use the size.

    Miss Plato, never heard of foolscap paper, I must admit.

    Less of the "older people" please!

    I still refer to A4 as foolscap sometimes...

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    Charles said:

    RobD said:



    I was told us PB Tories are always wrong and that we never learn...... Now I don't know what to think.

    You were wrong to believe that...
    You used to think you were uncertain but now you're not so sure?
  • taffys said:

    UKIP on twitter pointing out that a vote for conservatives in H&M is a vote for Ed.

    You have to like the chutzpah...

    Its true!! However if UKIP are seeing that logic they must also see that in the vast majority of seats come May a vote for UKIP Is a vote for Labour
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    edited October 2014

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    Sunday Herald was the paper to back Yes, the Herald firmly backed a No.
    Amazing the ignorance shown on here by some of those who insist on pronouncing on matters Scottish.
    Tipping point?
    The PB echo..
    So in other words, we PB Tories were right about what the Indyref result would be, unlike you Nats, who were on the ground.

    So our echo chamber was a damn sight more accurate than the Nat echo chamber.

    Keep listening to us, you Nats might learn something.

    Sorry to put the boot in, but even Rogerdamus, got the referendum result spot on.

    I don't remember 'you' making any predictions, but your use of the PB 'we' is very telling.
    I did, I said Yes would get 42% on a 82% turnout

    http://www.nojam.com/demo/pbindycomp/results.php?s_Name=tse&button=Search
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    ComRes commentary on the state of play:

    http://comresupdates.eu.com/DCJ-2UVSL-F21LMD8E11/cr.aspx
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Welcome Aboard, Mr or is it Ms Penguin?
    Penguin said:

    My first comment here rather than just reading the blog etc.

    Anyone else noticed that today's YouGov shows 23% of 2010 LDs said CON (with 29% LAB, 9% UKIP)?

    Compare to 25 Sep YouGov which had a 6 point LAB lead. There only 8% 2010 LDs said CON, 35% LAB, 14% UKIP.

    Enough to (partially) explain the swing?

    If this 23% is sustained (and it's not reflected in Populus, which has only 8% of 2010 LDs saying CON, and on a random look through past YouGovs I can't find a comparable figure), it would give the Tories a comparable "electoral crutch" to Labour. Suspect it won't be though and that 23% will be a blip.

  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,818
    edited October 2014
    made my first by- election bet -UKIP to get 40-50% in Clacton. I think the Reckless defection will stop some tories voting UKIP that might have otherwise here . So think UKIP will not get as much as initially though
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    edited October 2014

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    Sunday Herald was the paper to back Yes, the Herald firmly backed a No.
    Amazing the ignorance shown on here by some of those who insist on pronouncing on matters Scottish.
    Simply amazing ignorance;
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/cultural-policies-lead-irvine-welsh-to-back-snp-1.827460
    I'm still waiting for an apology.
    And I responded at that time, though as is your wont, you then scuttled off. Your request remains lodged where the sun don't shine.
    You were wrong about expat longtime Nat Welsh, admit it.
    God, you're tedious. At the second time of posting.

    'But after mouthing off about the Labour Party, it’s only fair that I make a personal declaration as to where my own politics lie today. Like most people, I’ve moved away from my tartan Tory perception of the SNP and accept it as a benign, bourgeois party of the centre-left. Yes, it’s nakedly opportunist, but that factor certainly doesn’t distinguish it in modern politics, and its fairly narrow goal of Scottish independence makes it harder for it to sell out. Nonetheless, its not my party, I’ve never voted for them and would find it hard to do so, for the same reasons I can no longer vote Labour and will obviously never vote Conservative – it’s not in my internationalist DNA. Having long given up on parties, I’m stuck with having my political aspirations for these islands placed squarely in the hands of a new, broadly-based, grass roots campaign led by a different generation, and I wouldn’t want it any other way. I’m now a dedicated ‘phase three’ yes man: let’s get it sorted out. But I want as many of my old buddies, and as many real Labour people on that journey as possible, and for bigger reasons than to deliver a yes vote for social progress on the 18th. That, as I’ve said, is only part of the process. I want them onside, because the core values that they believe in; fairness, justice and democracy, are the only values that a new Scotland -and a new England- can be constructed on.'

    http://tinyurl.com/londfkm
    The twerp has never voted for your revolting party because he hasn't lived in Scotland for decades. What a creep, sticking his bourbon blighted nose into other people's business.

  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''However if UKIP are seeing that logic they must also see that in the vast majority of seats come May a vote for UKIP Is a vote for Labour.''

    It will be interesting to see if the thin crust of H&M tory voters vote tactically against labour.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    RobD said:



    I was told us PB Tories are always wrong and that we never learn...... Now I don't know what to think.

    You were wrong to believe that...
    You used to think you were uncertain but now you're not so sure?
    I used to be paranoid. Now I *know* they're out to get me
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    Plato said:

    *laughing out loud - a lot*

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    NEVER kick a man when he's down," my dad says.

    He'd make a terrible politician, my dad.

    "Is there ever a better time?" Alex Salmond's opponents seemed to grin as they laced up their best stomping boots for FMQs today.

    It was watch-through-your-fingers stuff.

    Haunted by the rustle of two million No votes, power draining away faster than the fun from a Yes Scotland results party, and even Nicola Sturgeon, absent on personal business, unable to whisper the answers to him, all the FM lacked was a target on his back.

    The Unionists simply couldn't miss.

    So for 30 minutes Mr Salmond was thrown down every circle of political hell until eventually he hit rock bottom - being lectured by Ken Macintosh.
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/alex-salmond-opponents-put-the-boot-in-at-fmqs.1412272399


    As Richard Sharpe put it "When's the best time to kick a man, Patrick? " "When he's down, sir."

  • Penguin said:

    My first comment here rather than just reading the blog etc.

    Anyone else noticed that today's YouGov shows 23% of 2010 LDs said CON (with 29% LAB, 9% UKIP)?

    Compare to 25 Sep YouGov which had a 6 point LAB lead. There only 8% 2010 LDs said CON, 35% LAB, 14% UKIP.

    Enough to (partially) explain the swing?

    If this 23% is sustained (and it's not reflected in Populus, which has only 8% of 2010 LDs saying CON, and on a random look through past YouGovs I can't find a comparable figure), it would give the Tories a comparable "electoral crutch" to Labour. Suspect it won't be though and that 23% will be a blip.

    I did notice that, what I compared it to was the August poll when the Tories and Lab were tied.

    Then it was 16% of 2010 Lib Dems who expressed a voting intention now planned to vote Tory (29% said they were voting Lab)

    http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/ey50z9xm3y/YG-Archive-Pol-Sun-results-140814.pdf
    Might be something to keep an eye on then if we start to see a few more polls with CON close/tied/ahead. Probably still a blip, but would be interesting if not.

    @Plato and others. Thanks. It's Mr Penguin btw...!
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Are you going to be in Clacton for the Kippers next week? I keep being cajoled into going for the Blue Team but can't make it. Sounds like great fun, even though I expect us to get thrashed.

    Rochester & Strood is another matter... *sharpens knives*
    Sean_F said:

    Plato said:

    *laughing out loud - a lot*

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    NEVER kick a man when he's down," my dad says.

    He'd make a terrible politician, my dad.

    "Is there ever a better time?" Alex Salmond's opponents seemed to grin as they laced up their best stomping boots for FMQs today.

    It was watch-through-your-fingers stuff.

    Haunted by the rustle of two million No votes, power draining away faster than the fun from a Yes Scotland results party, and even Nicola Sturgeon, absent on personal business, unable to whisper the answers to him, all the FM lacked was a target on his back.

    The Unionists simply couldn't miss.

    So for 30 minutes Mr Salmond was thrown down every circle of political hell until eventually he hit rock bottom - being lectured by Ken Macintosh.
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/alex-salmond-opponents-put-the-boot-in-at-fmqs.1412272399
    As Richard Sharpe put it "When's the best time to kick a man, Patrick? " "When he's down, sir."



  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    taffys said:

    ''However if UKIP are seeing that logic they must also see that in the vast majority of seats come May a vote for UKIP Is a vote for Labour.''

    It will be interesting to see if the thin crust of H&M tory voters vote tactically against labour.

    Well, quite. Where have the posts from Tory loyalists espousing tactical voting all gone? Very strange.

    made my first by- election bet -UKIP to get 40-50% in Clacton. I think the Reckless defection will stop some tories voting UKIP that might have otherwise here . So think UKIP will not get as much as initially though

    Most Clacton voters won't have any idea who Reckless is, or what he's like, or that he's defected. We all overestimate that sort of thing here. My impression, maybe wrong, is that CCHQ has written Clacton off and is sending the heavy artillery to Rochester, which is where an opinion poll would be really useful. An interesting quirk is that if Carswell is elected next week, he can move the writ for Rochester, upsetting the "play it long" Tory strategy.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    Sunday Herald was the paper to back Yes, the Herald firmly backed a No.
    Amazing the ignorance shown on here by some of those who insist on pronouncing on matters Scottish.
    Tipping point?
    The PB echo..
    So in other words, we PB Tories were right about what the Indyref result would be, unlike you Nats, who were on the ground.

    So our echo chamber was a damn sight more accurate than the Nat echo chamber.

    Keep listening to us, you Nats might learn something.

    Sorry to put the boot in, but even Rogerdamus, got the referendum result spot on.
    BOOM!
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    Sunday Herald was the paper to back Yes, the Herald firmly backed a No.
    Amazing the ignorance shown on here by some of those who insist on pronouncing on matters Scottish.
    Simply amazing ignorance;
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/cultural-policies-lead-irvine-welsh-to-back-snp-1.827460
    I'm still waiting for an apology.
    And I responded at that time, though as is your wont, you then scuttled off. Your request remains lodged where the sun don't shine.
    You were wrong about expat longtime Nat Welsh, admit it.
    God, you're tedious. At the second time of posting.

    'But after mouthing off about the Labour Party, it’s only fair that I make a personal declaration as to where my own politics lie today. Like most people, I’ve moved away from my tartan Tory perception of the SNP and accept it as a benign, bourgeois party of the centre-left. Yes, it’s nakedly opportunist, but that factor certainly doesn’t distinguish it in modern politics, and its fairly narrow goal of Scottish independence makes it harder for it to sell out. Nonetheless, its not my party. Having long given up on parties, I’m stuck with having my political aspirations for these islands placed squarely in the hands of a new, broadly-based, grass roots campaign led by a different generation, and I wouldn’t want it any other way. I’m now a dedicated ‘phase three’ yes man: let’s get it sorted out. But I want as many of my old buddies, and as many real Labour people on that journey as possible, and for bigger reasons than to deliver a yes vote for social progress on the 18th. That, as I’ve said, is only part of the process. I want them onside, because the core values that they believe in; fairness, justice and democracy, are the only values that a new Scotland -and a new England- can be constructed on.'

    http://tinyurl.com/londfkm
    The twerp has never voted for your revolting party because he hasn't lived in Scotland for decades. What a creep, sticking his bourbon blighted nose into other people's business.

    And how is it your business whether he does so or not? He is, by the way, a great and talented writer who has done as much as anyone in his generation to affect the way Scotland sees itself and is seen by others.

    Is it your time of the month, perhaps?

  • Sean_F said:

    Plato said:

    *laughing out loud - a lot*

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    NEVER kick a man when he's down," my dad says.

    He'd make a terrible politician, my dad.

    "Is there ever a better time?" Alex Salmond's opponents seemed to grin as they laced up their best stomping boots for FMQs today.

    It was watch-through-your-fingers stuff.

    Haunted by the rustle of two million No votes, power draining away faster than the fun from a Yes Scotland results party, and even Nicola Sturgeon, absent on personal business, unable to whisper the answers to him, all the FM lacked was a target on his back.

    The Unionists simply couldn't miss.

    So for 30 minutes Mr Salmond was thrown down every circle of political hell until eventually he hit rock bottom - being lectured by Ken Macintosh.
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/alex-salmond-opponents-put-the-boot-in-at-fmqs.1412272399
    As Richard Sharpe put it "When's the best time to kick a man, Patrick? " "When he's down, sir."



    I also like the quote from Harry Flashman: 'Never kick a man when he's down - he may get up!'.

    TGOHF will remember this. :-)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693
    @Cameron Conference Rap - where is it written that this is bad for Cameron?

    Most raps include shooting, gansta slang and swearing. There's a risk that (like the Gene Hunt attack) it makes him look quite cool, and crowds out Ed.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    taffys said:

    UKIP on twitter pointing out that a vote for conservatives in H&M is a vote for Ed.

    You have to like the chutzpah...

    Its true!! However if UKIP are seeing that logic they must also see that in the vast majority of seats come May a vote for UKIP Is a vote for Labour
    The point is who do the voters want to vote against. If more do not want to vote for 'Farage' then they will vote for 'Ed' to keep him out.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    http://www.ukip.org/let_s_get_it_straight_on_human_rights

    The Tories promise on Human Rights are not worth the breath of an utterance!
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    MikeK said:

    http://www.ukip.org/let_s_get_it_straight_on_human_rights

    The Tories promise on Human Rights are not worth the breath of an utterance!

    Then why do it?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    Plato said:

    Are you going to be in Clacton for the Kippers next week? I keep being cajoled into going for the Blue Team but can't make it. Sounds like great fun, even though I expect us to get thrashed.

    Rochester & Strood is another matter... *sharpens knives*

    Sean_F said:

    Plato said:

    *laughing out loud - a lot*

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    NEVER kick a man when he's down," my dad says.

    He'd make a terrible politician, my dad.

    "Is there ever a better time?" Alex Salmond's opponents seemed to grin as they laced up their best stomping boots for FMQs today.

    It was watch-through-your-fingers stuff.

    Haunted by the rustle of two million No votes, power draining away faster than the fun from a Yes Scotland results party, and even Nicola Sturgeon, absent on personal business, unable to whisper the answers to him, all the FM lacked was a target on his back.

    The Unionists simply couldn't miss.

    So for 30 minutes Mr Salmond was thrown down every circle of political hell until eventually he hit rock bottom - being lectured by Ken Macintosh.
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/alex-salmond-opponents-put-the-boot-in-at-fmqs.1412272399
    As Richard Sharpe put it "When's the best time to kick a man, Patrick? " "When he's down, sir."



    I'll be on holiday next week. I'm trying to get to either Clacton or Rochester over the weekend.

  • Ishmael_X said:

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    Sunday Herald was the paper to back Yes, the Herald firmly backed a No.
    Amazing the ignorance shown on here by some of those who insist on pronouncing on matters Scottish.
    Simply amazing ignorance;
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/cultural-policies-lead-irvine-welsh-to-back-snp-1.827460
    I'm still waiting for an apology.
    And I responded at that time, though as is your wont, you then scuttled off. Your request remains lodged where the sun don't shine.
    You were wrong about expat longtime Nat Welsh, admit it.
    God, you're tedious. At the second time of posting.

    'But after mouthing off about the Labour Party, it’s only fair that I make a personal declaration as to where my own politics lie today. Like most people, I’ve moved away from my tartan Tory perception of the SNP and accept it as a benign, bourgeois party of the centre-left. Yes, it’s nakedly opportunist, but that factor certainly doesn’t distinguish it in modern politics, and its fairly narrow goal of Scottish independence makes it harder for it to sell out. Nonetheless, its not my party. Having long given up on parties, I’m stuck with having my political aspirations for these islands placed squarely in the hands of a new, broadly-based, grass roots campaign led by a different generation, and I wouldn’t want it any other way. I’m now a dedicated ‘phase three’ yes man: let’s get it sorted out. But I want as many of my old buddies, and as many real Labour people on that journey as possible, and for bigger reasons than to deliver a yes vote for social progress on the 18th. That, as I’ve said, is only part of the process. I want them onside, because the core values that they believe in; fairness, justice and democracy, are the only values that a new Scotland -and a new England- can be constructed on.'

    http://tinyurl.com/londfkm
    The twerp has never voted for your revolting party because he hasn't lived in Scotland for decades. What a creep, sticking his bourbon blighted nose into other people's business.

    And how is it your business whether he does so or not? He is, by the way, a great and talented writer who has done as much as anyone in his generation to affect the way Scotland sees itself and is seen by others.

    Is it your time of the month, perhaps?

    He's unreadable. I'd be amazed if anyone on PB has ever read his gibberish from cover to cover.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    edited October 2014
    Ishmael_X said:

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    Sunday Herald was the paper to back Yes, the Herald firmly backed a No.
    Amazing the ignorance shown on here by some of those who insist on pronouncing on matters Scottish.
    Simply amazing ignorance;
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/cultural-policies-lead-irvine-welsh-to-back-snp-1.827460
    I'm still waiting for an apology.
    And I responded at that time, though as is your wont, you then scuttled off. Your request remains lodged where the sun don't shine.
    You were wrong about expat longtime Nat Welsh, admit it.
    God, you're tedious. At the second time of posting.

    'But after mouthing off about the Labour Party, it’s only fair that I make a personal declaration as to where my own politics lie today. Like most people, I’ve moved away from my tartan Tory perception of the SNP and accept it as a benign, bourgeois party of the centre-left. Yes, it’s nakedly opportunist, but that factor certainly doesn’t distinguish it in modern politics, and its fairly narrow goal of Scottish independence makes it harder for it to sell out. Nonetheless, its not my party. Having long given up on parties, I’m stuck with having my political aspirations for these islands placed squarely in the hands of a new, broadly-based, grass roots campaign led by a different generation, and I wouldn’t want it any other way. I’m now a dedicated ‘phase three’ yes man: let’s get it sorted out. But I want as many of my old buddies, and as many real Labour people on that journey as possible, and for bigger reasons than to deliver a yes vote for social progress on the 18th. That, as I’ve said, is only part of the process. I want them onside, because the core values that they believe in; fairness, justice and democracy, are the only values that a new Scotland -and a new England- can be constructed on.'

    http://tinyurl.com/londfkm
    The twerp has never voted for your revolting party because he hasn't lived in Scotland for decades. What a creep, sticking his bourbon blighted nose into other people's business.

    And how is it your business whether he does so or not? He is, by the way, a great and talented writer who has done as much as anyone in his generation to affect the way Scotland sees itself and is seen by others.

    Is it your time of the month, perhaps?

    Unless it is an in-joke between you and @MonikerDiCanio‌ that comment is out of order.
  • Another_richard - Why don't you stand as the South Yorkshire Police & Crime Commissioner.

    I assume you won't be voting UKIP in that election, as they've chosen as candidate a former South Yorkshire copper who occasionally worked in Rotherham?

    I prefer to do things I am good at and I suspect that doesn't include being a PCC.

    I did hear the UKIP candidate on the radio a few days ago.

    He sounded deeply unimpressive.

    I really don't think UKIP would be any more effective in government than the other parties but as they're not going to be in government then they remain a free anti-establishment protest vote.

    For the SYPCC, as UKIP provide the only realistic alternative to beating Labour they will unenthusiastically get my vote. I know Labour will be crap but I don't know if UKIP will be if they win. So I'll hope to be pleasantly surprised.

    Might I ask who you will vote for Eagles ? As I remember its a STV election so you can vote Con then UKIP.




  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited October 2014

    My impression, maybe wrong, is that CCHQ has written Clacton off and is sending the heavy artillery to Rochester, which is where an opinion poll would be really useful.

    An interesting quirk is that if Carswell is elected next week, he can move the writ for Rochester, upsetting the "play it long" Tory strategy.

    The Telegraph reports the Conservatives planning a primary to select their Rochester candidate.

    Its not clear if this is an expensive all postal-vote, or a caucus.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11137231/David-Cameron-plans-peoples-candidate-in-Rochester-and-Strood-to-stop-Ukip-in-its-tracks.html


  • Isn't it Josias Jessop who is so angered that Labour are planning a minister to deal with violence against women and girls and ignoring that against men and boys ?

    If so, perhaps he might take a look at what's top of the policies list at the government website for the Minister of State for Policing, Criminal Justice and Victims:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/ministers/minister-of-state-policing-and-criminal-justice

    And at the top of that policies list is 'Ending violence against women and girls in the UK'

    Yep, I'd like to see more concentration on male victims as well (and particularly on raising awareness that it happens to boys and men as well. This blindness infects all parties and governments.

    But that's a very different thing from having a *minister* looking at women and girls alone. That's a terrible message to send as the prominence is so much greater.

    The Home Office's webpage on domestic violence is fairly gender-blind:
    https://www.gov.uk/domestic-violence-and-abuse
    Fair point JJ.

    But has the Conservative party any criticism of Labour's unpleasant idea ?
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Sky - Bogus Bomb Detector Scam Pair Sentenced

    Good they've had their comeuppance – looking at them, I'd not buy a newspaper from them.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1346782/bogus-bomb-detector-scam-pair-sentenced
  • So has anyone noticed 'wave after wave' of arrests ?

    " Police forces across Britain are poised to arrest hundreds of suspected child abusers as part of a massive crackdown on the grooming of vulnerable young girls.

    ‘Wave after wave’ of arrests will be made between now until Christmas in response to the ‘epidemic’ of child sexual exploitation that has haunted the nation for two decades. Police are confident that the raids will lead to scores of court cases across the country, with suspects facing charges of child abduction, rape, multiple rape and sexual assault.

    In Greater Manchester alone, more than 180 suspects are set to be rounded up in an operation described by sources as a ‘day of reckoning’ for men who have tormented girls as young as ten. Raids are also scheduled to take place in the south of England within the next few weeks, with many others set to follow before the end of the year. "

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2738773/Police-plan-mass-raids-sex-gangs-Day-reckoning-hundreds-child-abusers-180-mainly-Asian-men-targeted-Manchester-alone.html

    I wonder if Mike Penning, Minister of State for Policing, Criminal Justice and Victims has any thoughts on police strategy on this issue.

    He doesn't seem to have had any thing to say about the Rotherham report yet.

    Of course he has thoughts. And he keeps them to himself. Do you really want politicians intervening in operational policing, just like they do in Iran, North Korea and elsewhere?

    If the police aren't doing their job then I would expect the Minister for Policing to take some action.

    Now how many people here think the police have been doing their job properly on this issue ?
    On your definition of "doing their job" and your timetable? Perhaps you'd like to have a thousand votes as well, instead of just the one.

    It wasn't me who gave a load of big talk about a 'day of reckoning' or about 'wave after wave of arrests'.

    It was the plods.

    I'm just one of those people who expect others to do what they promise to do.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    More details on the Begg case - I'm not a fan of his apparent views, but if we believe in equal rights before the law, he appears to have a case for compensation for wrongful imprisonment:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/02/moazzam-begg-contact-mi5-agents-papers

    The case casts a sidelight on our shifting views on Syria - "We support the opposition, by all means go and help them" to "Er, well, maybe we don't support them quite so much, so you're under arrest".
  • Another_richard - Why don't you stand as the South Yorkshire Police & Crime Commissioner.

    I assume you won't be voting UKIP in that election, as they've chosen as candidate a former South Yorkshire copper who occasionally worked in Rotherham?

    I prefer to do things I am good at and I suspect that doesn't include being a PCC.

    I did hear the UKIP candidate on the radio a few days ago.

    He sounded deeply unimpressive.

    I really don't think UKIP would be any more effective in government than the other parties but as they're not going to be in government then they remain a free anti-establishment protest vote.

    For the SYPCC, as UKIP provide the only realistic alternative to beating Labour they will unenthusiastically get my vote. I know Labour will be crap but I don't know if UKIP will be if they win. So I'll hope to be pleasantly surprised.

    Might I ask who you will vote for Eagles ? As I remember its a STV election so you can vote Con then UKIP.


    I haven't made up my mind yet.

    I'm on holiday on Election Day. So I might officially abstain and not get a postal ballot.
  • made my first by- election bet -UKIP to get 40-50% in Clacton. I think the Reckless defection will stop some tories voting UKIP that might have otherwise here . So think UKIP will not get as much as initially though

    state - yes, I think this is probably the value bet at 9/4 with Ladbrokes. What will also undoubtedly help the Tories, perhaps quite significantly, is Dave's quite brilliant Conference speech.
    Good luck with your virgin bet!
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    Having just seen this on Guido...

    http://order-order.com/2014/10/03/labour-play-the-by-election-race-card-heywood-and-middleton-candidate-liz-mcinnes-white-is-ordinary/

    I am not sure whether it was an attempt to play the race card or just a candidate out of her depth in an interview - hard to tell without context

    But will be interesting to see if it gets traction
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    Ishmael_X said:

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    Sunday Herald was the paper to back Yes, the Herald firmly backed a No.
    Amazing the ignorance shown on here by some of those who insist on pronouncing on matters Scottish.
    Simply amazing ignorance;
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/cultural-policies-lead-irvine-welsh-to-back-snp-1.827460
    I'm still waiting for an apology.
    And I responded at that time, though as is your wont, you then scuttled off. Your request remains lodged where the sun don't shine.
    You were wrong about expat longtime Nat Welsh, admit it.
    God, you're tedious. At the second time of posting.

    'But after mouthing off about the Labour Party, it’s only fair that I make a personal declaration as to where my own politics lie today. Like most people, I’ve moved away from my tartan Tory perception of the SNP and accept it as a benign, bourgeois party of the centre-left. Yes, it’s nakedly opportunist, but that factor certainly doesn’t distinguish it in modern politics, and its fairly narrow goal of Scottish independence makes it harder for it to sell out. Nonetheless, its not my party. But I want as many of my old buddies, and as many real Labour people on that journey as possible, and for bigger reasons than to deliver a yes vote for social progress on the 18th. That, as I’ve said, is only part of the process. I want them onside, because the core values that they believe in; fairness, justice and democracy, are the only values that a new Scotland -and a new England- can be constructed on.'

    http://tinyurl.com/londfkm
    The twerp has never voted for your revolting party because he hasn't lived in Scotland for decades. What a creep, sticking his bourbon blighted nose into other people's business.

    And how is it your business whether he does so or not? He is, by the way, a great and talented writer who has done as much as anyone in his generation to affect the way Scotland sees itself and is seen by others.

    Is it your time of the month, perhaps?

    He's unreadable. I'd be amazed if anyone on PB has ever read his gibberish from cover to cover.
    I have.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534

    made my first by- election bet -UKIP to get 40-50% in Clacton. I think the Reckless defection will stop some tories voting UKIP that might have otherwise here . So think UKIP will not get as much as initially though

    state - yes, I think this is probably the value bet at 9/4 with Ladbrokes. What will also undoubtedly help the Tories, perhaps quite significantly, is Dave's quite brilliant Conference speech.
    Good luck with your virgin bet!
    I can't see UKIP getting under 50% in Clacton.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    Sunday Herald was the paper to back Yes, the Herald firmly backed a No.
    Amazing the ignorance shown on here by some of those who insist on pronouncing on matters Scottish.
    Simply amazing ignorance;
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/cultural-policies-lead-irvine-welsh-to-back-snp-1.827460
    I'm still waiting for an apology.
    And I responded at that time, though as is your wont, you then scuttled off. Your request remains lodged where the sun don't shine.
    You were wrong about expat longtime Nat Welsh, admit it.
    God, you're tedious. At the second time of posting.
    nstructed on.'

    http://tinyurl.com/londfkm
    The twerp has never voted for your revolting party because he hasn't lived in Scotland for decades. What a creep, sticking his bourbon blighted nose into other people's business.

    "bourbon" ? More likely to be something a bit more Central American.

    He has made a fortune by writing the same book 10 times - more power to him for the hustle.

    The Nat campaign is similar to the Green/AGW - is has morphed into a far left battle on "social justice" - what they want is communism and to obtain what others have by statist means and they have used the SNP and "Yes" as a cover to get it.

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Another_richard - Why don't you stand as the South Yorkshire Police & Crime Commissioner.

    I assume you won't be voting UKIP in that election, as they've chosen as candidate a former South Yorkshire copper who occasionally worked in Rotherham?

    I prefer to do things I am good at and I suspect that doesn't include being a PCC.

    I did hear the UKIP candidate on the radio a few days ago.

    He sounded deeply unimpressive.

    I really don't think UKIP would be any more effective in government than the other parties but as they're not going to be in government then they remain a free anti-establishment protest vote.

    For the SYPCC, as UKIP provide the only realistic alternative to beating Labour they will unenthusiastically get my vote. I know Labour will be crap but I don't know if UKIP will be if they win. So I'll hope to be pleasantly surprised.

    Might I ask who you will vote for Eagles ? As I remember its a STV election so you can vote Con then UKIP.


    I haven't made up my mind yet.

    I'm on holiday on Election Day. So I might officially abstain and not get a postal ballot.
    I don't believe it! About you not voting: I mean where is your fervor?
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    Having just seen this on Guido...

    http://order-order.com/2014/10/03/labour-play-the-by-election-race-card-heywood-and-middleton-candidate-liz-mcinnes-white-is-ordinary/

    I am not sure whether it was an attempt to play the race card or just a candidate out of her depth in an interview - hard to tell without context

    But will be interesting to see if it gets traction

    Ah, the lady who claims to work for the NHS, but is really a union pilgrim working within the NHS.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    TOPPING said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    Sunday Herald was the paper to back Yes, the Herald firmly backed a No.
    Amazing the ignorance shown on here by some of those who insist on pronouncing on matters Scottish.
    Simply amazing ignorance;
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/cultural-policies-lead-irvine-welsh-to-back-snp-1.827460
    I'm still waiting for an apology.
    And I responded at that time, though as is your wont, you then scuttled off. Your request remains lodged where the sun don't shine.
    You were wrong about expat longtime Nat Welsh, admit it.
    God, you're tedious. At the second time of posting.

    'But after mouthing off about the Labour Party, it’s only fair that I make a personal declaration as to where my own politics lie today. Like most people, That, as I’ve said, is only part of the process. I want them onside, because the core values that they believe in; fairness, justice and democracy, are the only values that a new Scotland -and a new England- can be constructed on.'

    http://tinyurl.com/londfkm
    The twerp has never voted for your revolting party because he hasn't lived in Scotland for decades. What a creep, sticking his bourbon blighted nose into other people's business.

    And how is it your business whether he does so or not? He is, by the way, a great and talented writer who has done as much as anyone in his generation to affect the way Scotland sees itself and is seen by others.

    Is it your time of the month, perhaps?

    Unless it is an in-joke between you and @MonikerDiCanio‌ that comment is out of order.
    If @MonikerDiCanio‌ were a woman, I wouldn't have made it.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Having just seen this on Guido...

    http://order-order.com/2014/10/03/labour-play-the-by-election-race-card-heywood-and-middleton-candidate-liz-mcinnes-white-is-ordinary/

    I am not sure whether it was an attempt to play the race card or just a candidate out of her depth in an interview - hard to tell without context

    But will be interesting to see if it gets traction

    Ah, the lady who claims to work for the NHS, but is really a union pilgrim working within the NHS.
    She is truly a Florence Nightingale for the 21st century...

    And Cam wants to ring fence NHS spending ??
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    TGOHF said:


    Having just seen this on Guido...

    http://order-order.com/2014/10/03/labour-play-the-by-election-race-card-heywood-and-middleton-candidate-liz-mcinnes-white-is-ordinary/

    I am not sure whether it was an attempt to play the race card or just a candidate out of her depth in an interview - hard to tell without context

    But will be interesting to see if it gets traction

    Ah, the lady who claims to work for the NHS, but is really a union pilgrim working within the NHS.
    She is truly a Florence Nightingale for the 21st century...

    And Cam wants to ring fence NHS spending ??
    Protecting the overall NHS budget is fine - doing away with pilgrims is absolutely vital.

    That scam has to end once and for all.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Excellent!
    Patrick said:

    Sean_F said:

    Plato said:

    *laughing out loud - a lot*

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    NEVER kick a man when he's down," my dad says.

    He'd make a terrible politician, my dad.

    "Is there ever a better time?" Alex Salmond's opponents seemed to grin as they laced up their best stomping boots for FMQs today.

    It was watch-through-your-fingers stuff.

    Haunted by the rustle of two million No votes, power draining away faster than the fun from a Yes Scotland results party, and even Nicola Sturgeon, absent on personal business, unable to whisper the answers to him, all the FM lacked was a target on his back.

    The Unionists simply couldn't miss.

    So for 30 minutes Mr Salmond was thrown down every circle of political hell until eventually he hit rock bottom - being lectured by Ken Macintosh.
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/alex-salmond-opponents-put-the-boot-in-at-fmqs.1412272399
    As Richard Sharpe put it "When's the best time to kick a man, Patrick? " "When he's down, sir."

    I also like the quote from Harry Flashman: 'Never kick a man when he's down - he may get up!'.

    TGOHF will remember this. :-)

  • MikeK said:

    Another_richard - Why don't you stand as the South Yorkshire Police & Crime Commissioner.

    I assume you won't be voting UKIP in that election, as they've chosen as candidate a former South Yorkshire copper who occasionally worked in Rotherham?

    I prefer to do things I am good at and I suspect that doesn't include being a PCC.

    I did hear the UKIP candidate on the radio a few days ago.

    He sounded deeply unimpressive.

    I really don't think UKIP would be any more effective in government than the other parties but as they're not going to be in government then they remain a free anti-establishment protest vote.

    For the SYPCC, as UKIP provide the only realistic alternative to beating Labour they will unenthusiastically get my vote. I know Labour will be crap but I don't know if UKIP will be if they win. So I'll hope to be pleasantly surprised.

    Might I ask who you will vote for Eagles ? As I remember its a STV election so you can vote Con then UKIP.


    I haven't made up my mind yet.

    I'm on holiday on Election Day. So I might officially abstain and not get a postal ballot.
    I don't believe it! About you not voting: I mean where is your fervor?
    Looking at the Tory candidate, he's went to the same prep school as I, and he's also worked for the NHS, and given that the Tory party is the the party of the NHS, I shall vote Tory.

    I'm not sure who to give my second vote to, I'm annoyed by UKIP and Labour equally.

    For all you election gurus, if I put an X against the Tory candidate, and write bastards next to the Labour and UKIP candidates, will my vote still be counted?
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078

    Having just seen this on Guido...

    http://order-order.com/2014/10/03/labour-play-the-by-election-race-card-heywood-and-middleton-candidate-liz-mcinnes-white-is-ordinary/

    I am not sure whether it was an attempt to play the race card or just a candidate out of her depth in an interview - hard to tell without context

    But will be interesting to see if it gets traction

    Ah, the lady who claims to work for the NHS, but is really a union pilgrim working within the NHS.
    You clearly have every CCHQ file at your disposal.Same old Tories.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    Sunday Herald was the paper to back Yes, the Herald firmly backed a No.
    Amazing the ignorance shown on here by some of those who insist on pronouncing on matters Scottish.
    Tipping point?
    The PB echo..
    So in other words, we PB Tories were right about what the Indyref result would be, unlike you Nats, who were on the ground.

    So our echo chamber was a damn sight more accurate than the Nat echo chamber.

    Keep listening to us, you Nats might learn something.

    Sorry to put the boot in, but even Rogerdamus, got the referendum result spot on.

    I don't remember 'you' making any predictions, but your use of the PB 'we' is very telling.
    I did, I said no would get 42% on a 82% turnout

    http://www.nojam.com/demo/pbindycomp/results.php?s_Name=tse&button=Search
    Perhaps a little table of "out of touch posh fop PB Tories" and "feet on the ground understand the real situation Nats" would be instructive?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    edited October 2014

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    The Herald, the Nats paper of choice before the No vote...

    Sunday Herald was the paper to back Yes, the Herald firmly backed a No.
    Amazing the ignorance shown on here by some of those who insist on pronouncing on matters Scottish.
    Tipping point?
    The PB echo..
    So in other words, we PB Tories were right about what the Indyref result would be, unlike you Nats, who were on the ground.

    So our echo chamber was a damn sight more accurate than the Nat echo chamber.

    Keep listening to us, you Nats might learn something.

    Sorry to put the boot in, but even Rogerdamus, got the referendum result spot on.

    I don't remember 'you' making any predictions, but your use of the PB 'we' is very telling.
    I did, I said Yes would get 42% on a 82% turnout

    http://www.nojam.com/demo/pbindycomp/results.php?s_Name=tse&button=Search
    Perhaps a little table of "out of touch posh fop PB Tories" and "feet on the ground understand the real situation Nats" would be instructive?
    Actually I've got a thread coming up that touches on that (indirectly)
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Having just seen this on Guido...

    http://order-order.com/2014/10/03/labour-play-the-by-election-race-card-heywood-and-middleton-candidate-liz-mcinnes-white-is-ordinary/

    I am not sure whether it was an attempt to play the race card or just a candidate out of her depth in an interview - hard to tell without context

    But will be interesting to see if it gets traction

    Ah, the lady who claims to work for the NHS, but is really a union pilgrim working within the NHS.
    You clearly have every CCHQ file at your disposal.Same old Tories.

    It was on Guido a week or so ago.

    Shortly BJO will be along to tell us that NHS finances are creaking and patients will suffer soon. But yet she is being paid handsomely not to treat anyone but cuddle the workers.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I find rap to be an odd medium - some of it can be very very funny and satirical. Most of it is indeed - gangstas, guns, swearing and absurdly macho. Very tedious.

    I've become rather fond of an odd kluge of sweary n-rap crossed with blue grass. It's rather catchy and funny. Ed Sheeran does some rather clever music industry pee-taking rap as well. He's a very talented chappy.

    That Gene Hunt schitck was most amusing - I tripped across it just this morning and it did make me smile.

    @Cameron Conference Rap - where is it written that this is bad for Cameron?

    Most raps include shooting, gansta slang and swearing. There's a risk that (like the Gene Hunt attack) it makes him look quite cool, and crowds out Ed.

  • Sean_F said:

    made my first by- election bet -UKIP to get 40-50% in Clacton. I think the Reckless defection will stop some tories voting UKIP that might have otherwise here . So think UKIP will not get as much as initially though

    state - yes, I think this is probably the value bet at 9/4 with Ladbrokes. What will also undoubtedly help the Tories, perhaps quite significantly, is Dave's quite brilliant Conference speech.
    Good luck with your virgin bet!
    I can't see UKIP getting under 50% in Clacton.

    I can!
This discussion has been closed.