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  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    I have drifted too far right now compared to 37 years ago. I sometimes shop at Tesco when I was a young socialist if the co-op didn't sell it I didn't buy it.
  • FalseFlag said:

    Hugh said:

    Thank God Miliband stopping the strengthening of ISIS last year.

    Unfortunately he did the exact opposite. His schoolboy attempt at playing politics did serious damage.
    It's one of those alternative history things where we'll have to agree to differ - personally, trying to learn from Iraq, I think he did both Syria and Britain a considerable service by preventing intervention, and he should have done it for Libya too. We have no business killing people to favour one dubious group over another. It's possible that you're right and it would have led to a better outcome - if we're honest we'll never know for sure.

    Reluctantly, I agree that ISIS is a nastiness class apart and intervention against them does make sense.
    Utterly disagree. And if you have learnt any lesson from Iraq, then it appears to be the wrong lesson.

    "We have no business killing people to favour one dubious group over another."

    So if Miliband backs bombing, then you will say he's wrong? And do you think the use of chemical weapons should be punished, especially after the west's craven capitulation over Halabja?
    Still pushing the lie that Assad used chemical weapons I see.

    http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014/09/09/americas-frankenstein-brigade/
    Still wearing that tinfoil hat? It must be wearing a little thin now, so here's some instructions on how to make a new one. I suggest you use blunt scissors, as I wouldn't want you hurting yourself:

    http://www.ehow.com/how_2049858_make-tinfoil-hat.html
    Says the person so paranoid they are two steps away from blaming Assad and Russia for Fukushima, the Ebola outbreak and decline in the Bee population. Or wait, can you only be tinfoil if you theorise about Uncle Sam, but you're still a rational thinker if you theorise about everyone else?

  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Why anyone listens to anything Prezza has to say is beyond me,
    He was just a dirty old man using power to get his end away.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    HYUFD said:

    I don't think military action will solve anything in Syria and Iraq, Ken Clarke tells @adamboultonSKY

    Meanwhile, Farage moaning apparently that airstrikes vote during UKIP conference

    I am with Ken Clarke on this. We have sold plenty of weapons to Turkey, Saudi, UAE, Bahrain etc. Let them bomb the hell out of IS, then purchase a bit more Ammo from us.

    They have the money, they have nearby airbases, they have the planes. They are all countries that have tried to ride the tiger that is Islamic Facism, they need to deal with it both internally and externally.

    I am happy for UK to help identify targets, but that is as far as it should go.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Labour no longer exists in Sheffield Hallam, they have wound up due to a lack of interest

    http://tinyurl.com/l3v2mml

    Those people in the photo make me so pleased that I never went to a Lib Dem student party!

    Although I did fancy one of their activists once.
  • AllyM said:

    AllyM said:

    Scott_P said:

    @iankatz1000: I won't rule out possibility of another Scottish indep referendum inside five years, @NicolaSturgeon tells #newsnight tonight. 22.30

    Here we go. So much for those who claimed the issue was dead for a generation,,,,,,,,,
    If she's serious, she's deluded, in my opinion, if she thinks the UK Parliment will allow that to happen.. Utterly naive at best.

    Sturgeon and Swinney especially have been pushing the idea of a Home a Rule and to push the fight to more and more powers. Part of me feels that this chat of 'not ruling out another Referndum' in the next however many years is designed to appease their new, largely bandwagon orientated support. These '45%' goofs especially.

    Swerving sideways, my best mate, who is a Nationalist, is concerned with the surge in support from the '45' as he firmly believes it will repel the ordinary, middle of the road voter with their hard left, victim playing, anti-establishment and anti-everything routine. I believe to him a large degree.
    What's Westminster going to do if the Scottish parliament votes for another referendum (polls indicating the Scottish people want one) because Westminster has not lived up to its commitments? And then if the SNP got a whopping great majority for independence off the back of it? What Westminster going to do about it then?
    I can't see Westminster not delivering, not even Ed's that dumb. Added to that, SNP 'leaders' seemingly favouring the home rule battle for now.

    Null and void issue for me currently.

    I won't be really rude though and answer the question. If they do 'welch' on the commitments however; then within the next 5-10 years is way more likely.
    Yes they will deliver but its what they do deliver thats the big questions because politically they've manouevred themselves into a difficult situation where delivering everything Scotland expects will cause major problems south of the border and meeting English concerns will leave Scotland wanting. I suspect that there is inevitably going to be a mismatch in expectations. The question is whether that mismatch is big enough to reignite the Independence question.
  • The Snow-MIliband interview is up here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4ygfbpHJGM
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    I have drifted too far right now compared to 37 years ago. I sometimes shop at Tesco when I was a young socialist if the co-op didn't sell it I didn't buy it.

    A tough commitment to maintain for any length of time. Not for the faint hearted or those lacking in energy, socialism.
  • Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting clash between Nicolas Sarkozy and his wife. After he said he found gay marriage 'humiliates families', Carla Bruni says ‘I’m rather in favour because I have a lot of friends – men and women – who are in this situation and I see nothing unstable or perverse in families with gay parents. ‘My husband is opposed for reasons linked to his political vocation, because he sees people as groups of thousands rather than people we know personally.’
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2765521/Comeback-ex-French-president-Nicolas-Sarkozy-says-gay-marriage-humiliates-families-promptly-slapped-wife.html

    Sarkozy and his wife have never had much in common, politically.

    If Sarkozy runs in 2017, he'll beat Marine Le Pen 2:1. Hollande won't reach the run-off.

    If Miliband does win in 2015, I wonder if fast forwarding 5 years we may be in a similar political situation to the one the French are in now:

    The left deeply unpopular due to being forced into difficult policy decisions, and two parties to the right/right-of-centre benefitting significantly.

    Only difference being it wouldn't be Cameron making a comeback IMHO. Boris and Farage?
    If Labour win in 2015, then by the middle of the next Parliament, I think we'd see each of Con/Lab/UKIP polling 25-30%.
    "Farage ... has a clear strategy for building a longer insurgency, a core plank of which is to establish Ukip as Labour’s main opposition in the north. Nor is this political fantasy: at the European elections in May, across 51 authorities in the north-west and north-east, Ukip finished ahead of Labour in 18 and as its main rival in 30. "

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/24/nigel-farage-ukip-peasants-revolt-westminster-working-class-britons
    .....then you win.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited September 2014
    Local rag asks candidates for forthcoming H&M by election what they think of Scottish MPs voting on English issues

    LibDem, Tory and UKIP said English votes for English laws! Green Party said no quick fix...

    "Labour candidate, Liz McInnes did not respond."

    http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/91519/heywood-and-middleton-candidates-express-views-on-banning-scottish-mps-from-voting-on-english-laws
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,878
    Fox They should certainly help with the ground forces, though I think ISIS is so evil western airpower and technology should be used to weaken them from the air
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited September 2014

    Charles said:

    Charles said:



    I do not believe in an English Parliament. I do not believe in devolution to cities (or even city states.) And I certainly do not believe that the current system can continue without reform.

    That reform has to mean that English MPs have the final say over measures that only affect English matters.

    I think the mistake that people are making is to assume that we are bound by the current structure of the Crown-in-Parliament, which is - IMV - at the root of many of the problems that we have in the UK government system.

    If you take the executive out of the legislature, and make the PM directly elected (and getting to appoint his executive team) then there would be absolutely no problem in electing English, Welsh, Scottish and Northern Ireland parliaments.

    The Executive would take executive decisions. And if they wanted to propose legislation then they would need to convince a majority of members of the relevant national parliament.
    Why on earth do national assemblies need to be predicated on a presidential style executive? I do not think that has any direct relationship to the issue at all. A basic use of subsidiarity is all that is required to justify the assemblies.
    They're not predicated on it.

    But it solve the issue of having a UK health minster, without a majority in England, using executive authority to make decision affecting England.

    Fundamentally, though, I don't think parliament is doing a good job and needs fixing. Executive dominance is the problem; elective dictatorship TM has come to be the norm.
    Ah so your point was to suggest possibly the greatest centralisation of power and diminution of democracy in recent British political history. Given the purpose of this is providing equal decentralisation across the four home nations that would rather be counterproductive?

    Anyway, I'm glad you actually realised that and recognised that the actual problem is the executive because I was just about to point that out!.
    A directly elected executive, accountable both to the electorate and to the legislature is hardly undemocratic!

    As for devolution: that doesn't really bother me. I think that the national parliaments should decide what leeway they allow the executive. And be held accountable for that.

    In any event , the problem is not the executive, it's the executive's control of the legislature. Dismantling that was what the Glorious Revolution was about.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    edited September 2014
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Labour no longer exists in Sheffield Hallam, they have wound up due to a lack of interest

    http://tinyurl.com/l3v2mml

    Well, socialism is cooler when you're at Uni, isn't it?
    I've never found socialism cool.
    Neither have I, but combine some stylish dark reds, Che Guevara's face and some totalitarian regimes that never worked, and millions of angry students disagree.

    Apologies to the nice/proper socialists out there.

    PS and appropos of nothing, I see from Wikipedia that Engels at one point at least had an even more stupendous beard than Marx and his much more famous one. I don't know why I find that interesting, but I do. I may not be cut out for political philosophy in a serious manner.
    The one thing that got me was the number of students who wore Lenin/Soviet symbols.
    I never really got why people thought Trotsky was a really positive model. Sure, he wasn't Stalin, but that's not saying a great deal. With Lenin, I could never shake the impression that he was the type of guy who would wash his hands after shaking it with a member of the lower orders, though that was just a gut reaction on my part which may have no basis in fact in how he felt about such people in reality, not merely theory, so if I am being unfair to his memory I apologies on that limited score. Not a pleasant bunch of folks though, my limited investigations into the subject determined.
    I saw this leaflet handed out a few weeks ago:
    http://www.cpgb-ml.org/images/leaflets/trotskyism_20120705.jpg
    http://www.cpgb-ml.org/download/leaflets/trotskyism_20120705.pdf

  • (Snip)

    2/3) I agree the situation has changed -thankfully Syria is on its way to being fully re-controlled by an authoritarian but comparatively enlightened pseudo-democratic Baathist dictatorship.

    I think that says all that needs to be said about your world view.

    "I feel enlightened. Let's use chemical weapons on my citizens!"

    Edit: and weren't you the guy dissing Human Rights Watch when they reported earlier in the year that Assad's regime was using chlorine as a chemical weapon?
    I'll feel really enlightened if you provide me with any evidence that such weapons were used by Assad, not the Saudi-backed beheaders who we're now being asked to bomb.
    I've linked to the relevant info from HRW in the past, and you chose to disbelieve them. But just for you, I'll link to them again:
    http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/05/13/syria-strong-evidence-government-used-chemicals-weapon

    But for the moment, it's worth remembering how you see Assad:

    "thankfully Syria is on its way to being fully re-controlled by an authoritarian but comparatively enlightened pseudo-democratic Baathist dictatorship"
    I'm puzzled as to what is it that seems to have upset you about that statement?
    (Snip for size)

    A bit odd to be honest.

    As for your source, I choose to see the sentence 'Evidence strongly suggests' at the beginning of the article. The report by the OPCW they mention has now been published. No mention of culpability: http://www.opcw.org/news/article/opcw-fact-finding-mission-compelling-confirmation-that-chlorine-gas-used-as-weapon-in-syria/
    It's not upset me. It's highly bemused me. The idea that an "authoritarian but comparatively enlightened pseudo-democratic Baathist dictatorship" that uses chemical weapons on its own citizens is in any way good is, well, laughable.

    As for the OPCW and culpability: Assad only let them work in Syria on the understanding that their mandate would include not attributing blame for the attacks. That's an odd thing for Assad to stipulate, isn't it? If he was blameless you'd think he would be urging them to get to the truth.
  • Charles said:

    Labour no longer exists in Sheffield Hallam, they have wound up due to a lack of interest

    http://tinyurl.com/l3v2mml

    Those people in the photo make me so pleased that I never went to a Lib Dem student party!

    Although I did fancy one of their activists once.
    I once went to a Lib Dem swingers party.

    We all put our car keys in a bowl, then swapped speeding points.
  • The Snow-MIliband interview is up here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4ygfbpHJGM

    Why has EdM been hospitalized?
  • Mr. HYUFD, it's my understanding the Iraqi Government has expressly said it does not want foreign ground troops to help it fight ISIS.
  • Miss DiCanio, amnesia?

    On a serious note, I think Snow's right to slam his complacent approach towards the deficit, though I'm not a fan of interrupting politicians (with certain exceptions, such as telling blatant lies or regurgitating lines).
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited September 2014
    The ComRes polls indicate that everything Labour is "best at" is supported by 29% maximum

    The things the Tories or UKIP are best at are 29% minimum

    The level of belief in Labour's strong points is much lower than the level of belief in the Tory/UKIP strong points.

    Labour "best at" NHS = 29% - and that's as good as it gets.

    Kippers 43% on immigration, Tories 39% on the govt finances.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457
    edited September 2014

    Says the person so paranoid they are two steps away from blaming Assad and Russia for Fukushima, the Ebola outbreak and decline in the Bee population. Or wait, can you only be tinfoil if you theorise about Uncle Sam, but you're still a rational thinker if you theorise about everyone else?

    Nope, not going to blame Assad or Russia for any of those things.

    Next!

  • (Snip)

    2/3) I agree the situation has changed -thankfully Syria is on its way to being fully re-controlled by an authoritarian but comparatively enlightened pseudo-democratic Baathist dictatorship.

    I think that says all that needs to be said about your world view.

    "I feel enlightened. Let's use chemical weapons on my citizens!"

    Edit: and weren't you the guy dissing Human Rights Watch when they reported earlier in the year that Assad's regime was using chlorine as a chemical weapon?
    I'll feel really enlightened if you provide me with any evidence that such weapons were used by Assad, not the Saudi-backed beheaders who we're now being asked to bomb.
    I've linked to the relevant info from HRW in the past, and you chose to disbelieve them. But just for you, I'll link to them again:
    http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/05/13/syria-strong-evidence-government-used-chemicals-weapon

    But for the moment, it's worth remembering how you see Assad:

    "thankfully Syria is on its way to being fully re-controlled by an authoritarian but comparatively enlightened pseudo-democratic Baathist dictatorship"
    I'm puzzled as to what is it that seems to have upset you about that statement?
    (Snip for size)

    A bit odd to be honest.

    As for your source, I choose to see the sentence 'Evidence strongly suggests' at the beginning of the article. The report by the OPCW they mention has now been published. No mention of culpability: http://www.opcw.org/news/article/opcw-fact-finding-mission-compelling-confirmation-that-chlorine-gas-used-as-weapon-in-syria/
    It's not upset me. It's highly bemused me. The idea that an "authoritarian but comparatively enlightened pseudo-democratic Baathist dictatorship" that uses chemical weapons on its own citizens is in any way good is, well, laughable.

    As for the OPCW and culpability: Assad only let them work in Syria on the understanding that their mandate would include not attributing blame for the attacks. That's an odd thing for Assad to stipulate, isn't it? If he was blameless you'd think he would be urging them to get to the truth.
    Snip it or engage with it, what you've signally failed to do is come up with any argument against any part of it. By all means continue quoting it though -I can't be here to present the facts all the time.
  • Charles said:

    Labour no longer exists in Sheffield Hallam, they have wound up due to a lack of interest

    http://tinyurl.com/l3v2mml

    Those people in the photo make me so pleased that I never went to a Lib Dem student party!

    Although I did fancy one of their activists once.
    I once went to a Lib Dem swingers party.

    We all put our car keys in a bowl, then swapped speeding points.
    I take it that it was a "Pryce" worth paying?
  • I like Guido's mash-up of Andrew Neil's interviews of Labour's front bench:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4Dx8HkCt1c&app=desktop

    Neil has a good grasp of numbers, but Labour are truly all over the shop, totally unbriefed and seemingly innumerate. I wish more interviewers had a grasp of economics. Would help given the state of the public finances.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    edited September 2014

    Charles said:

    Labour no longer exists in Sheffield Hallam, they have wound up due to a lack of interest

    http://tinyurl.com/l3v2mml

    Those people in the photo make me so pleased that I never went to a Lib Dem student party!

    Although I did fancy one of their activists once.
    I once went to a Lib Dem swingers party.

    We all put our car keys in a bowl, then swapped speeding points.
    I take it that it was a "Pryce" worth paying?
    Ewww no. Not even with someone else's ten foot barge pole
  • Paddy Power ‏@paddypower 1m

    Wouldn't leave early Spurs fans, one Liverpool fan did that last night and missed 29 goals.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    You talk about principles when just months before the next GE, Carsewell's former constituents are now left totally without a voice in Westminster now Parliament has been recalled. And, its not as if there wasn't some fairly obvious and serious indicators that a recall of Parliament might be highly likely with all the major events looming both at home and abroad in recent weeks and months, and yet he and UKIP decided to opt for an expensive political stunt instead!
    Socrates said:

    fitalass said:

    It is Douglas Carsewell who has currently left his former constituents without any form of Westminster representation in a vote on this issue now Parliament has been recalled. And its also Douglas Carsewell who has chosen to self indulgently put his constituents through a costly by-election as a UKIP political stunt just months before a GE.


    Socrates said:

    MikeK said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29339787

    Parliament recalled over air strikes on Islamic State in Iraq

    Cammo trying to drown out the start of the UKIP Conference in Doncaster?
    It won't help him or any of the Lab/Lib/Con team.

    Louise Mensch ✔ @LouiseMensch
    .@chrisg0000 @HouseOfTwitsCon Cam should have waited for the #UKIP conference so they can send back all their MPs. #ohwait
    Douglas Carswel's little toe makes more of an MP than Louise "revolving door" Mensch ever did...
    It's so painfully clear that you would be saluting someone from the hill-tops if someone crossed the floor to the Tories and did this. You aren't governed by any clear philosophy of principle: you are just one of those sycophantic Tories that will spin an anti-UKIP line with whatever argument you find lying around. No doubt if Carswell had not resigned his seat, you would be condemning him for cowardice and misrepresenting his constituents. So transparent.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Scott_P said:

    @SunNewsdesk: Andy Burnham is accused of forgetting the deaths of nearly 1,200 people in a hospital scandal: http://bit.ly/1yr3Iq0 twitter.com/SunNewsdesk/status/514832943865274368/photo/1

    Labour have quite a lot they hope the voting public have forgotten about.

    The rank hypocrisy of Labour demonising the tories over the NHS is nausiating.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    HYUFD said:

    Fox They should certainly help with the ground forces, though I think ISIS is so evil western airpower and technology should be used to weaken them from the air

    Turkey has quite a big airforce including 196 F16, and 54 F4

    http://www.hvkk.tsk.tr/en/EnvanterdekiUcaklar.aspx?ID=7

    Saudi has 261 modern combat aircraft, mostly F15:

    http://www.arabaviation.com/en-us/airpower/royalsaudiairforce.aspx

    Kuwait has 58 Combat aircraft, mostly modern F18

    http://www.arabaviation.com/en-us/airpower/kuwaitiairforce.aspx

    Etc,., Etc...

    They are perfectly capable of their own defence, but the critical thing in this part of the world is that they have to decide which side they are on. They can slay the beast of Islamic Fascism in a way that we cannot.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534

    Charles said:

    Labour no longer exists in Sheffield Hallam, they have wound up due to a lack of interest

    http://tinyurl.com/l3v2mml

    Those people in the photo make me so pleased that I never went to a Lib Dem student party!

    Although I did fancy one of their activists once.
    I once went to a Lib Dem swingers party.

    We all put our car keys in a bowl, then swapped speeding points.
    I take it that it was a "Pryce" worth paying?
    Did Jeremy Thorpe, Mark Oaten, Chris Huhne, Sir Cyril Smith, and Vicki Pryce take part?

  • HYUFD said:

    Fox They should certainly help with the ground forces, though I think ISIS is so evil western airpower and technology should be used to weaken them from the air

    Turkey has quite a big airforce including 196 F16, and 54 F4

    http://www.hvkk.tsk.tr/en/EnvanterdekiUcaklar.aspx?ID=7

    Saudi has 261 modern combat aircraft, mostly F15:

    http://www.arabaviation.com/en-us/airpower/royalsaudiairforce.aspx

    Kuwait has 58 Combat aircraft, mostly modern F18

    http://www.arabaviation.com/en-us/airpower/kuwaitiairforce.aspx

    Etc,., Etc...

    They are perfectly capable of their own defence, but the critical thing in this part of the world is that they have to decide which side they are on. They can slay the beast of Islamic Fascism in a way that we cannot.
    Thank God for some common sense on this issue. Not a PENNY of British money should be spent on this farce.

  • The Snow-MIliband interview is up here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4ygfbpHJGM

    Why has EdM been hospitalized?
    I'm back!!!!! A spurs win thanks TSE...

    Toenails interview was in the same hospital room too with Ed. A clever PR Way clearly as labour wraps itself in the NHS. Looks weird tho
  • The Snow-MIliband interview is up here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4ygfbpHJGM

    Why has EdM been hospitalized?
    I'm back!!!!! A spurs win thanks TSE...

    Toenails interview was in the same hospital room too with Ed. A clever PR Way clearly as labour wraps itself in the NHS. Looks weird tho
    I cashed out, so it was a profitable evening all round.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,878
    Of course were the SNP to go into the 2016 Holyrood election promising another referendum, the Quebec experience suggests they will get a clear 'no thanks' and lose their majority
  • Floater said:

    Scott_P said:

    @SunNewsdesk: Andy Burnham is accused of forgetting the deaths of nearly 1,200 people in a hospital scandal: http://bit.ly/1yr3Iq0 twitter.com/SunNewsdesk/status/514832943865274368/photo/1

    Labour have quite a lot they hope the voting public have forgotten about.

    The rank hypocrisy of Labour demonising the tories over the NHS is nausiating.
    They are disgusting, and if even the likes of Snow are giving them a hard time then the campaign will be excruciating for Labour as all their chickens come home to roost.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    edited September 2014

    The Snow-MIliband interview is up here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4ygfbpHJGM

    Why has EdM been hospitalized?
    I'm back!!!!! A spurs win thanks TSE...

    Toenails interview was in the same hospital room too with Ed. A clever PR Way clearly as labour wraps itself in the NHS. Looks weird tho

    Where else could Ed have been interviewed?

    Bank of England? No.

    Dover port? No.

    Northern Town? No.

    Scotland? No.

    His brother's place...?

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited September 2014
    What are the chances of Douglas Carswell doing a bit of campaigning in Heywood and Middleton some time in the next couple of weeks?
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Great, another one spouting about Carsewell's 'principles'! Meantime, the constituents he promised to serve are sitting without any representation in Westminster during an extraordinary few weeks in UK political history! This whole by-election stunt was timed to fit in with Carsewell's and UKIP's own political timetable. Nothing like getting your priorities right, the politician and his new party first, the constituents and voters second!

    fitalass said:

    It is Douglas Carsewell who has currently left his former constituents without any form of Westminster representation in a vote on this issue now Parliament has been recalled. And its also Douglas Carsewell who has chosen to self indulgently put his constituents through a costly by-election as a UKIP political stunt just months before a GE.


    Socrates said:

    MikeK said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29339787

    Parliament recalled over air strikes on Islamic State in Iraq

    Cammo trying to drown out the start of the UKIP Conference in Doncaster?
    It won't help him or any of the Lab/Lib/Con team.

    Louise Mensch ✔ @LouiseMensch
    .@chrisg0000 @HouseOfTwitsCon Cam should have waited for the #UKIP conference so they can send back all their MPs. #ohwait
    Douglas Carswel's little toe makes more of an MP than Louise "revolving door" Mensch ever did...
    He could have just crossed the floor but is a man of principle, something I wouldn't expect you to understand.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    fitalass said:

    You talk about principles when just months before the next GE, Carsewell's former constituents are now left totally without a voice in Westminster now Parliament has been recalled. And, its not as if there wasn't some fairly obvious and serious indicators that a recall of Parliament might be highly likely with all the major events looming both at home and abroad in recent weeks and months, and yet he and UKIP decided to opt for an expensive political stunt instead!

    Socrates said:

    fitalass said:

    It is Douglas Carsewell who has currently left his former constituents without any form of Westminster representation in a vote on this issue now Parliament has been recalled. And its also Douglas Carsewell who has chosen to self indulgently put his constituents through a costly by-election as a UKIP political stunt just months before a GE.


    Socrates said:

    MikeK said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29339787

    Parliament recalled over air strikes on Islamic State in Iraq

    Cammo trying to drown out the start of the UKIP Conference in Doncaster?
    It won't help him or any of the Lab/Lib/Con team.

    Louise Mensch ✔ @LouiseMensch
    .@chrisg0000 @HouseOfTwitsCon Cam should have waited for the #UKIP conference so they can send back all their MPs. #ohwait
    Douglas Carswel's little toe makes more of an MP than Louise "revolving door" Mensch ever did...
    It's so painfully clear that you would be saluting someone from the hill-tops if someone crossed the floor to the Tories and did this. You aren't governed by any clear philosophy of principle: you are just one of those sycophantic Tories that will spin an anti-UKIP line with whatever argument you find lying around. No doubt if Carswell had not resigned his seat, you would be condemning him for cowardice and misrepresenting his constituents. So transparent.
    Terrible attempt at trolling, why bother?

    The constituents you are feeling so awful for, from 700 miles away, are about to re elect him, in all likelyhood with one of the biggest vote percentages in the country

    So, as the vast majority of them don't feel let down by him in the slightest, and thousands of ex conservatives are voting for him as a ukip candidate rather than the Tory, what are you basing this nonsense on?
  • The Snow-MIliband interview is up here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4ygfbpHJGM

    Why has EdM been hospitalized?
    I'm back!!!!! A spurs win thanks TSE...

    Toenails interview was in the same hospital room too with Ed. A clever PR Way clearly as labour wraps itself in the NHS. Looks weird tho
    I cashed out, so it was a profitable evening all round.
    How did I know you would say that.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    In matches with a big fav, ht draw/full time fav is often value... But how often has it been 0-0 at ht and end up 7-0 ????
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    HYUFD said:

    Fox They should certainly help with the ground forces, though I think ISIS is so evil western airpower and technology should be used to weaken them from the air

    Turkey has quite a big airforce including 196 F16, and 54 F4

    http://www.hvkk.tsk.tr/en/EnvanterdekiUcaklar.aspx?ID=7

    Saudi has 261 modern combat aircraft, mostly F15:

    http://www.arabaviation.com/en-us/airpower/royalsaudiairforce.aspx

    Kuwait has 58 Combat aircraft, mostly modern F18

    http://www.arabaviation.com/en-us/airpower/kuwaitiairforce.aspx

    Etc,., Etc...

    They are perfectly capable of their own defence, but the critical thing in this part of the world is that they have to decide which side they are on. They can slay the beast of Islamic Fascism in a way that we cannot.
    Thank God for some common sense on this issue. Not a PENNY of British money should be spent on this farce.

    If these countries are not willing to use their expensive toys on bombing IS to hell, then what on earth did they buy them for? IS is much more of a threat to them than us, A Caliphate makes all existing royal houses redundant.

    I am happy for GCHQ to help with target information, but that is as far as it should go for us.

  • The Snow-MIliband interview is up here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4ygfbpHJGM

    Why has EdM been hospitalized?
    I'm back!!!!! A spurs win thanks TSE...

    Toenails interview was in the same hospital room too with Ed. A clever PR Way clearly as labour wraps itself in the NHS. Looks weird tho
    I cashed out, so it was a profitable evening all round.
    How did I know you would say that.
    Because the cash out strategy is my modus operandi.

    You may have noticed it during the world cup.

    Except during the Germany v Brazil semi.

  • I (reluctantly) support bombing in this case, as you'll see if you re-read my last paragraph. On chemical weapons, I think we have to look at each case separately - it's a nasty form of killing, but not the only nasty form. "Punishment" (i.e. killing people who support the side we don't like) needs to have a reasonable chance of leading to a better outcome. IMO you are too sure you're right on this, as you are on everything else: for the construction of a train line, that doesn't matter too much, for killing people, rather more.

    No, I've looked at evidence and come up with my own conclusions. I have changed my mind on plenty of things when the evidence has changed. In this case, I find it very difficult to believe that the situation would be worse if the vote had carried last year. In fact, it's easy to imagine the situation would be better.

    The fact is we are probably going to bomb anyway, and are or will be providing arms to the Kurds, whose PKK fighters have killed thousands (with tens of thousands killed in the wider conflict). And in the meantime, hundreds of thousands more people have become refugees, the conflict has spread to Iraq, and any intervention that occurs is going to be much bigger, and much harder, than it would have been last year.

    You accuse me of being too sure that I'm right. Well, I'll throw back that your position just appears to be one of supporting the party line. As ever. Tell me, how many times did you vote against the party whip in the thirteen years you were an MP?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    fitalass said:

    You talk about principles when just months before the next GE, Carsewell's former constituents are now left totally without a voice in Westminster now Parliament has been recalled. And, its not as if there wasn't some fairly obvious and serious indicators that a recall of Parliament might be highly likely with all the major events looming both at home and abroad in recent weeks and months, and yet he and UKIP decided to opt for an expensive political stunt instead!

    Socrates said:

    fitalass said:

    It is Douglas Carsewell who has currently left his former constituents without any form of Westminster representation in a vote on this issue now Parliament has been recalled. And its also Douglas Carsewell who has chosen to self indulgently put his constituents through a costly by-election as a UKIP political stunt just months before a GE.


    Socrates said:

    MikeK said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29339787

    Parliament recalled over air strikes on Islamic State in Iraq

    Cammo trying to drown out the start of the UKIP Conference in Doncaster?
    It won't help him or any of the Lab/Lib/Con team.

    Louise Mensch ✔ @LouiseMensch
    .@chrisg0000 @HouseOfTwitsCon Cam should have waited for the #UKIP conference so they can send back all their MPs. #ohwait
    Douglas Carswel's little toe makes more of an MP than Louise "revolving door" Mensch ever did...
    It's so painfully clear that you would be saluting someone from the hill-tops if someone crossed the floor to the Tories and did this. You aren't governed by any clear philosophy of principle: you are just one of those sycophantic Tories that will spin an anti-UKIP line with whatever argument you find lying around. No doubt if Carswell had not resigned his seat, you would be condemning him for cowardice and misrepresenting his constituents. So transparent.
    Yes, risking losing his seat so that his constituents had a chance to give their views on whether they still wanted him when he'd changed parties - what a stunt! It's laughable this line you're pushing.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    edited September 2014
    isam said:

    In matches with a big fav, ht draw/full time fav is often value... But how often has it been 0-0 at ht and end up 7-0 ????

    Wasn't there a Spurs match, that was nil nil at half time and ended 9-1 to Spurs.

    Edit: Gah, it was 1 nil to Spurs at half time, and finished 9-1 to Spurs

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/8365091.stm
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312
    fitalass said:

    You talk about principles when just months before the next GE, Carsewell's former constituents are now left totally without a voice in Westminster now Parliament has been recalled. And, its not as if there wasn't some fairly obvious and serious indicators that a recall of Parliament might be highly likely with all the major events looming both at home and abroad in recent weeks and months, and yet he and UKIP decided to opt for an expensive political stunt instead!

    Socrates said:

    fitalass said:

    It is Douglas Carsewell who has currently left his former constituents without any form of Westminster representation in a vote on this issue now Parliament has been recalled. And its also Douglas Carsewell who has chosen to self indulgently put his constituents through a costly by-election as a UKIP political stunt just months before a GE.


    Socrates said:

    MikeK said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29339787

    Parliament recalled over air strikes on Islamic State in Iraq

    Cammo trying to drown out the start of the UKIP Conference in Doncaster?
    It won't help him or any of the Lab/Lib/Con team.

    Louise Mensch ✔ @LouiseMensch
    .@chrisg0000 @HouseOfTwitsCon Cam should have waited for the #UKIP conference so they can send back all their MPs. #ohwait
    Douglas Carswel's little toe makes more of an MP than Louise "revolving door" Mensch ever did...
    It's so painfully clear that you would be saluting someone from the hill-tops if someone crossed the floor to the Tories and did this. You aren't governed by any clear philosophy of principle: you are just one of those sycophantic Tories that will spin an anti-UKIP line with whatever argument you find lying around. No doubt if Carswell had not resigned his seat, you would be condemning him for cowardice and misrepresenting his constituents. So transparent.
    According to your rationale, the police commissioner for South Yorkshire did his electors a great disservice in resigning and not hanging on to the bitter end of his term.

    David Cameron (and the rest of the country, I may add) did not agree with your rationale.

    In any case, MPs used to be forced to resign and re-stand on accepting a ministerial position, the thinking being that taking an additional job undermines the first.
  • fitalass said:

    Great, another one spouting about Carsewell's 'principles'! Meantime, the constituents he promised to serve are sitting without any representation in Westminster during an extraordinary few weeks in UK political history! This whole by-election stunt was timed to fit in with Carsewell's and UKIP's own political timetable. Nothing like getting your priorities right, the politician and his new party first, the constituents and voters second!

    fitalass said:

    It is Douglas Carsewell who has currently left his former constituents without any form of Westminster representation in a vote on this issue now Parliament has been recalled. And its also Douglas Carsewell who has chosen to self indulgently put his constituents through a costly by-election as a UKIP political stunt just months before a GE.


    Socrates said:

    MikeK said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29339787

    Parliament recalled over air strikes on Islamic State in Iraq

    Cammo trying to drown out the start of the UKIP Conference in Doncaster?
    It won't help him or any of the Lab/Lib/Con team.

    Louise Mensch ✔ @LouiseMensch
    .@chrisg0000 @HouseOfTwitsCon Cam should have waited for the #UKIP conference so they can send back all their MPs. #ohwait
    Douglas Carswel's little toe makes more of an MP than Louise "revolving door" Mensch ever did...
    He could have just crossed the floor but is a man of principle, something I wouldn't expect you to understand.
    Well he's got a lot more principles than you and the party you support.

    Your line of 'my party right or wrong' is nothing to be proud of. In fact it is something you should be ashamed of.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    The Snow-MIliband interview is up here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4ygfbpHJGM

    Why has EdM been hospitalized?
    I'm back!!!!! A spurs win thanks TSE...

    Toenails interview was in the same hospital room too with Ed. A clever PR Way clearly as labour wraps itself in the NHS. Looks weird tho
    I cashed out, so it was a profitable evening all round.
    How did I know you would say that.
    Because the cash out strategy is my modus operandi.

    You may have noticed it during the world cup.

    Except during the Germany v Brazil semi.
    What price did you take and what price were they when you cashed out?
  • Blueberry said:

    I like Guido's mash-up of Andrew Neil's interviews of Labour's front bench:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4Dx8HkCt1c&app=desktop

    Neil has a good grasp of numbers, but Labour are truly all over the shop, totally unbriefed and seemingly innumerate. I wish more interviewers had a grasp of economics. Would help given the state of the public finances.

    Wow. What a car crash. This is why Labour will lose.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited September 2014
    HYUFD said:

    Of course were the SNP to go into the 2016 Holyrood election promising another referendum, the Quebec experience suggests they will get a clear 'no thanks' and lose their majority

    Particularly if they use (or advocate) using their new tax raising powers to soak the rich.

    SNP are still in the denial phase of the grief response, they need to move on.
  • fitalass said:

    Great, another one spouting about Carsewell's 'principles'! Meantime, the constituents he promised to serve are sitting without any representation in Westminster during an extraordinary few weeks in UK political history! This whole by-election stunt was timed to fit in with Carsewell's and UKIP's own political timetable. Nothing like getting your priorities right, the politician and his new party first, the constituents and voters second!

    fitalass said:

    It is Douglas Carsewell who has currently left his former constituents without any form of Westminster representation in a vote on this issue now Parliament has been recalled. And its also Douglas Carsewell who has chosen to self indulgently put his constituents through a costly by-election as a UKIP political stunt just months before a GE.


    Socrates said:

    MikeK said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29339787

    Parliament recalled over air strikes on Islamic State in Iraq

    Cammo trying to drown out the start of the UKIP Conference in Doncaster?
    It won't help him or any of the Lab/Lib/Con team.

    Louise Mensch ✔ @LouiseMensch
    .@chrisg0000 @HouseOfTwitsCon Cam should have waited for the #UKIP conference so they can send back all their MPs. #ohwait
    Douglas Carswel's little toe makes more of an MP than Louise "revolving door" Mensch ever did...
    He could have just crossed the floor but is a man of principle, something I wouldn't expect you to understand.
    If they are as upset about his 'stunt' as you are on their behalf, they have ample chance to demonstrate that at the ballot box.
  • The Snow-MIliband interview is up here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4ygfbpHJGM

    Why has EdM been hospitalized?
    I'm back!!!!! A spurs win thanks TSE...

    Toenails interview was in the same hospital room too with Ed. A clever PR Way clearly as labour wraps itself in the NHS. Looks weird tho
    I cashed out, so it was a profitable evening all round.
    How did I know you would say that.
    Because the cash out strategy is my modus operandi.

    You may have noticed it during the world cup.

    Except during the Germany v Brazil semi.
    In that case if you don't want to be seen as an after timer you should mention it when you post things like you did earlier, hope you all followed me in etc.

    Not sour grapes as the last thing I would do,is get involved in the early rounds of the League Cup
  • Charles said:

    Charles said:



    I do not believe in an English Parliament. I do not believe in devolution to cities (or even city states.) And I certainly do not believe that the current system can continue without reform.

    That reform has to mean that English MPs have the final say over measures that only affect English matters.

    I think the mistake that people are making is to assume that we are bound by the current structure of the Crown-in-Parliament, which is - IMV - at the root of many of the problems that we have in the UK government system.

    If you take the executive out of the legislature, and make the PM directly elected (and getting to appoint his executive team) then there would be absolutely no problem in electing English, Welsh, Scottish and Northern Ireland parliaments.

    The Executive would take executive decisions. And if they wanted to propose legislation then they would need to convince a majority of members of the relevant national parliament.
    I do not think that has any direct relationship to the issue at all. A basic use of subsidiarity is all that is required to justify the assemblies.

    A directly elected executive, accountable both to the electorate and to the legislature is hardly undemocratic!

    As for devolution: that doesn't really bother me. I think that the national parliaments should decide what leeway they allow the executive. And be held accountable for that.

    In any event , the problem is not the executive, it's the executive's control of the legislature. Dismantling that was what the Glorious Revolution was about.
    I didn't say it was undemocratic. I said it was a diminution of democracy. The two are different. It is a diminution of democracy because the presidential style executive are not bound by the same constraints of party that a Parliamentary executive is and they represent a massive centralisation of power. Any centralisation of power is a diminution of democracy by its very nature.

    Whilst I would agree that executive influence on Parliament is a problem the attitudes of the executive in recent years has been as much of a problem and just because it was addressed over 300 years ago doesn't mean to say it doesn't need to be revisited from time to time.

    All that said your lack of concern about the appropriate distribution of power throughout the political system despite it have been greatly centralised over recent decades demonstrates why you seem to be providing the wrong solutions to the issue in my view. Its not how Westminster/Whitehall wield power that is the problem, although that in itself is a problem, it is that they have too much power in the first place and as such devolution is a very important issue.
  • Mr. Isam, not sure Miss Fitalass being not next door to Clacton is relevant. Most of the people here who discussed the Scottish vote were not actually in Scotland.

    Mr. Tyndall, unsurprised that the party Carswell has joined thinks he's full of virtue, and the party he's left thinks he's full of vice.

    It seems like an act of self-preservation, with a side order of hypocrisy.
  • isam said:


    The Snow-MIliband interview is up here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4ygfbpHJGM

    Why has EdM been hospitalized?
    I'm back!!!!! A spurs win thanks TSE...

    Toenails interview was in the same hospital room too with Ed. A clever PR Way clearly as labour wraps itself in the NHS. Looks weird tho
    I cashed out, so it was a profitable evening all round.
    How did I know you would say that.
    Because the cash out strategy is my modus operandi.

    You may have noticed it during the world cup.

    Except during the Germany v Brazil semi.
    What price did you take and what price were they when you cashed out?
    Was with bet365.

    Staked £20 at 5/1 - Cashout value was £54.46
  • Mr. Royale, not long to the election, but still too early to assert that. The Scottish and English situations, as well as the rise of UKIP and Miliband being as popular as ebola north of the border means there's a very wide array of realistic results.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited September 2014

    Blueberry said:

    I like Guido's mash-up of Andrew Neil's interviews of Labour's front bench:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4Dx8HkCt1c&app=desktop

    Neil has a good grasp of numbers, but Labour are truly all over the shop, totally unbriefed and seemingly innumerate. I wish more interviewers had a grasp of economics. Would help given the state of the public finances.

    Wow. What a car crash. This is why Labour will lose.
    In 1997 the Labour Front bench would have been all briefed, and rehearsed for media appearances and entirely on message. In 2014 they did not even know more about the policy than anyone else in the room. They need Mandelson back.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited September 2014

    isam said:

    In matches with a big fav, ht draw/full time fav is often value... But how often has it been 0-0 at ht and end up 7-0 ????

    Wasn't there a Spurs match, that was nil nil at half time and ended 9-1 to Spurs.

    Edit: Gah, it was 1 nil to Spurs at half time, and finished 9-1 to Spurs

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/8365091.stm
    I backed jermaine Defoe first goalscorer that day

    I backed Falcao first goalscorer this day

    http://www.goal.com/en-gb/match/atlético-madrid-vs-deportivo-la-coruña/1323089/report

    the previous day I had forgotten to put on £100 at 66/1 Ibisevic to score a hat trick for Stuttgart because I had such a bad hangover... Of course it copped... A bad birthday weekend

  • (Snip)

    2/3) I agree the situation has changed -thankfully Syria is on its way to being fully re-controlled by an authoritarian but comparatively enlightened pseudo-democratic Baathist dictatorship.

    I think that says all that needs to be said about your world view.

    "I feel enlightened. Let's use chemical weapons on my citizens!"

    Edit: and weren't you the guy dissing Human Rights Watch when they reported earlier in the year that Assad's regime was using chlorine as a chemical weapon?
    I'll feel really enlightened if you provide me with any evidence that such weapons were used by Assad, not the Saudi-backed beheaders who we're now being asked to bomb.
    I've linked to the relevant info from HRW in the past, and you chose to disbelieve them. But just for you, I'll link to them again:
    http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/05/13/syria-strong-evidence-government-used-chemicals-weapon

    But for the moment, it's worth remembering how you see Assad:

    "thankfully Syria is on its way to being fully re-controlled by an authoritarian but comparatively enlightened pseudo-democratic Baathist dictatorship"
    I'm puzzled as to what is it that seems to have upset you about that statement?
    (Snip for size)

    A bit odd to be honest.

    As for your source, I choose to see the sentence 'Evidence strongly suggests' at the beginning of the article. The report by the OPCW they mention has now been published. No mention of culpability: http://www.opcw.org/news/article/opcw-fact-finding-mission-compelling-confirmation-that-chlorine-gas-used-as-weapon-in-syria/
    It's not upset me. It's highly bemused me. The idea that an "authoritarian but comparatively enlightened pseudo-democratic Baathist dictatorship" that uses chemical weapons on its own citizens is in any way good is, well, laughable.

    As for the OPCW and culpability: Assad only let them work in Syria on the understanding that their mandate would include not attributing blame for the attacks. That's an odd thing for Assad to stipulate, isn't it? If he was blameless you'd think he would be urging them to get to the truth.
    Snip it or engage with it, what you've signally failed to do is come up with any argument against any part of it. By all means continue quoting it though -I can't be here to present the facts all the time.
    The fact that you are thankful that the mass-murdering, chemical-weapon using, terrorist supporting, hereditary madman is winning the war is enough.

    And I see you dodge the OPCW issue.
  • Charles said:

    Labour no longer exists in Sheffield Hallam, they have wound up due to a lack of interest

    http://tinyurl.com/l3v2mml

    Those people in the photo make me so pleased that I never went to a Lib Dem student party!

    Although I did fancy one of their activists once.
    I once went to a Lib Dem swingers party.

    We all put our car keys in a bowl, then swapped speeding points.
    I take it that it was a "Pryce" worth paying?
    Ewww no. Not even with someone else's ten foot barge pole

    Charles said:

    Labour no longer exists in Sheffield Hallam, they have wound up due to a lack of interest

    http://tinyurl.com/l3v2mml

    Those people in the photo make me so pleased that I never went to a Lib Dem student party!

    Although I did fancy one of their activists once.
    I once went to a Lib Dem swingers party.

    We all put our car keys in a bowl, then swapped speeding points.
    I take it that it was a "Pryce" worth paying?
    Ewww no. Not even with someone else's ten foot barge pole
    Count yourself lucky: you could always end up with Carina Trimingham.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Just watched the snow interview with ed and the labour front bench haven't a clue on economics,Christ they bad.

    But I'm beginning to think,ed's ,shit hitting the fan proof ;-) can someone tell me when if ever we will see regular tory leads in the polls ;-)

    Just asking,abit worried about me country ;-)

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564



    You accuse me of being too sure that I'm right. Well, I'll throw back that your position just appears to be one of supporting the party line. As ever. Tell me, how many times did you vote against the party whip in the thirteen years you were an MP?

    35 times. And not enough. But as usual you ignore inconvenient parts of posts that you are responding to. I say I'm reluctantly in favour of bombing, you respond to ask if I'm in favour of bombing. I say I disagreed with my party over Libya, you respond that I always support the party line.

    I'll leave you to it.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    edited September 2014
    Here's the Ed speech bounce.

    Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 9s
    National Opinion Poll (YouGov):
    LAB - 37% (-1)
    CON - 33% (+2)
    UKIP - 13% (-2)
    LDEM - 7% (=)
  • *Face-palm*

    Went all the way to Montreux from Geneva by mainline train yesterday, but didn't do any research into (and certainly didn't leave enough time to "do") the local metre-gauge mountain railways, concentrating for a change on non-railway items like the Freddie Mercury statue and walking the lake-front. I fly back to London tomorrow afternoon :(

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux–Glion–Rochers-de-Naye_railway
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux–Oberland_Bernois_railway

    Anyway, added Geneva Airport station, Geneva-Cornavin (city centre), Lausanne and Montreux stations to my "visited" list. (Zurich, Zurich Airport and Chur were done 5 years back). Also did the CERN (as in hardon, I mean Hadron collider) tram-stop, and also Carouge, Nations (as in United Nations), Palettes, Place de Neuve and Bel-Air tram-stops.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    fitalass said:

    You talk about principles when just months before the next GE, Carsewell's former constituents are now left totally without a voice in Westminster now Parliament has been recalled. And, its not as if there wasn't some fairly obvious and serious indicators that a recall of Parliament might be highly likely with all the major events looming both at home and abroad in recent weeks and months, and yet he and UKIP decided to opt for an expensive political stunt instead!

    Socrates said:

    fitalass said:

    It is Douglas Carsewell who has currently left his former constituents without any form of Westminster representation in a vote on this issue now Parliament has been recalled. And its also Douglas Carsewell who has chosen to self indulgently put his constituents through a costly by-election as a UKIP political stunt just months before a GE.


    Socrates said:

    MikeK said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29339787

    Parliament recalled over air strikes on Islamic State in Iraq

    Cammo trying to drown out the start of the UKIP Conference in Doncaster?
    It won't help him or any of the Lab/Lib/Con team.

    Louise Mensch ✔ @LouiseMensch
    .@chrisg0000 @HouseOfTwitsCon Cam should have waited for the #UKIP conference so they can send back all their MPs. #ohwait
    Douglas Carswel's little toe makes more of an MP than Louise "revolving door" Mensch ever did...
    It's so painfully clear that you would be saluting someone from the hill-tops if someone crossed the floor to the Tories and did this. You aren't governed by any clear philosophy of principle: you are just one of those sycophantic Tories that will spin an anti-UKIP line with whatever argument you find lying around. No doubt if Carswell had not resigned his seat, you would be condemning him for cowardice and misrepresenting his constituents. So transparent.
    No problem. On 9th October, Mr. Carswell will resume his seat in Parliament.

  • Mr. Johnno, on the plus side, if the economy does nosedive then more people will buy fantasy (happens in a downturn due to people desiring escapism).

    Anyway, I am off for the night.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited September 2014
    Labour lead collapses by a third in first poll following David milibands make or break last pre election conference speech.
  • AllyMAllyM Posts: 260

    AllyM said:

    AllyM said:

    Scott_P said:

    @iankatz1000: I won't rule out possibility of another Scottish indep referendum inside five years, @NicolaSturgeon tells #newsnight tonight. 22.30

    ,,
    If she's serious, she's deluded, in my opinion, if she thinks the UK Parliment will allow that to happen.. Utterly naive at best.

    Sturgeon and Swinney especially have been pushing the idea of a Home a Rule and to push the fight to more and more powers. Part of me feels that this chat of 'not ruling out another Referndum' in the next however many years is designed to appease their new, largely bandwagon orientated support. These '45%' goofs especially.

    Swerving sideways, my best mate, who is a Nationalist, is concerned with the surge in support from the '45' as he firmly believes it will repel the ordinary, middle of the road voter with their hard left, victim playing, anti-establishment and anti-everything routine. I believe to him a large degree.
    What's Westminster going to do if the Scottish parliament votes for another referendum (polls indicating the Scottish people want one) because Westminster has not lived up to its commitments? And then if the SNP got a whopping great majority for independence off the back of it? What Westminster going to do about it then?
    Yes they will deliver but its what they do deliver thats the big questions because politically they've manouevred themselves into a difficult situation where delivering everything Scotland expects will cause major problems south of the border and meeting English concerns will leave Scotland wanting. I suspect that there is inevitably going to be a mismatch in expectations. The question is whether that mismatch is big enough to reignite the Independence question.
    Swinney was giving off pretty thick smoke signals that the SNP will push for Home Rule that exceeds the 'pending' powers forthcoming. I'd wager they will push his Home Rule idea for a Parliament or two.

    They need time to embrace more voters. The hard left approach from the '45' won't work. Having time to build a case, this case being 'Westminster have blocked Home Rule' could be the trunk of a more palatable push for another that could embrace more of the Middle-class voter.

    It's if they don't get those deep running powers that boils down to Home Rule in the next couple Parliaments that I can then see them cry foul and push for Referendum MK 2.

    How England will fit in and what that means for us here in Scotland, I don't know yet. I agree though we've not heard the last of this. Especially if it derails the likely SNP Home Rule agenda post the next delivery of these further powers.
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    In matches with a big fav, ht draw/full time fav is often value... But how often has it been 0-0 at ht and end up 7-0 ????

    Wasn't there a Spurs match, that was nil nil at half time and ended 9-1 to Spurs.

    Edit: Gah, it was 1 nil to Spurs at half time, and finished 9-1 to Spurs

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/8365091.stm
    I backed jermaine Defoe first goalscorer that day

    I backed Falcao first goalscorer this day

    http://www.goal.com/en-gb/match/atlético-madrid-vs-deportivo-la-coruña/1323089/report

    the previous day I had forgotten to put on £100 at 66/1 Ibisevic to score a hat trick for Stuttgart because I had such a bad hangover... Of course it copped... A bad birthday weekend
    I always lose money in matches involving Wigan.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723
    edited September 2014

    Here's the Ed speech bounce.

    Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 9s
    National Opinion Poll (YouGov):
    LAB - 37% (-1)
    CON - 33% (+2)
    UKIP - 13% (-2)
    LDEM - 7% (=)

    There seems to be confusion re yesterday's YouGov.

    Sun Politics said 31/38 - Lab lead 7

    YouGov said 31/37 - Lab lead 6

    Britain Elects has picked up the Sun Politics tweet but surely we have to go with YouGov?

    Can you confirm?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534

    Here's the Ed speech bounce.

    Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 9s
    National Opinion Poll (YouGov):
    LAB - 37% (-1)
    CON - 33% (+2)
    UKIP - 13% (-2)
    LDEM - 7% (=)

    I think Labour are unchanged. But, it's not much of a bounce. IMHO, Labour could be c. 34% after the Tory conference.

  • The Snow-MIliband interview is up here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4ygfbpHJGM

    Why has EdM been hospitalized?
    I'm back!!!!! A spurs win thanks TSE...

    Toenails interview was in the same hospital room too with Ed. A clever PR Way clearly as labour wraps itself in the NHS. Looks weird tho
    I cashed out, so it was a profitable evening all round.
    How did I know you would say that.
    Because the cash out strategy is my modus operandi.

    You may have noticed it during the world cup.

    Except during the Germany v Brazil semi.
    In that case if you don't want to be seen as an after timer you should mention it when you post things like you did earlier, hope you all followed me in etc.

    Not sour grapes as the last thing I would do,is get involved in the early rounds of the League Cup
    I always post my tips on PB. This year I'm going through a purple patch, where nearly all my bets come off in the football.

    I'm sure normal service will be resumed, when I couldn't tip more rubbish even if you gave me a forklift truck.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723
    edited September 2014
    Ignore.
  • Noooo - Jason Orange has quit Take That.
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    In matches with a big fav, ht draw/full time fav is often value... But how often has it been 0-0 at ht and end up 7-0 ????

    Wasn't there a Spurs match, that was nil nil at half time and ended 9-1 to Spurs.

    Edit: Gah, it was 1 nil to Spurs at half time, and finished 9-1 to Spurs

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/8365091.stm
    I backed jermaine Defoe first goalscorer that day

    I backed Falcao first goalscorer this day

    http://www.goal.com/en-gb/match/atlético-madrid-vs-deportivo-la-coruña/1323089/report

    the previous day I had forgotten to put on £100 at 66/1 Ibisevic to score a hat trick for Stuttgart because I had such a bad hangover... Of course it copped... A bad birthday weekend
    I always lose money in matches involving Wigan.
    Wigan were top of my list of teams never to get involved with, City were the same until the money turned up.

    Currently Southampton are not to be trusted.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Labour lead collapses by a third in first poll following David milibands make or break last pre election conference speech.

    Was David M speaking for or against his brother?
  • Just watched the snow interview with ed and the labour front bench haven't a clue on economics,Christ they bad.

    But I'm beginning to think,ed's ,shit hitting the fan proof ;-) can someone tell me when if ever we will see regular tory leads in the polls ;-)

    Just asking,abit worried about me country ;-)

    And you haven't a clue about punctuation and grammar!

    Just watched the Snow interview with Ed, and the Labour Front Bench haven't a clue on economics. Christ, they are bad!

    But I'm beginning to think, Ed's shit-hitting-the-fan-proof ;-)
    Can someone tell me when, if ever, we will see regular Tory leads in the polls? ;-)

    Just asking; a bit worried about my country ;-)



  • Blueberry said:

    I like Guido's mash-up of Andrew Neil's interviews of Labour's front bench:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4Dx8HkCt1c&app=desktop

    Neil has a good grasp of numbers, but Labour are truly all over the shop, totally unbriefed and seemingly innumerate. I wish more interviewers had a grasp of economics. Would help given the state of the public finances.

    Wow. What a car crash. This is why Labour will lose.
    In 1997 the Labour Front bench would have been all briefed, and rehearsed for media appearances and entirely on message. In 2014 they did not even know more about the policy than anyone else in the room. They need Mandelson back.
    Yep, it really is woeful. Although Ed's kitchen cabinet of academic seminar attendees will tell you this is because politics has changed and voters don't want the control-freak, on-message, Blackberry hugging politicians of late 1990s.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,878
    TSE So an Ed boomerang bounce!
  • I try to avoid watching politicians on TV for fear of being provoked into kicking the screen in.

    But by accident I saw a minute of EdM with Jon Snow.

    Dear me he was crap.

    I was amused by the part where he claimed he wanted to get away from the Westminster bubble.

    Does that mean EdM is planning on spending more than two hours a year in his own constituency ? Or does he just mean he'll be exploring the borders of Primrose Hill ? If so might SeanT get to meet him ?
  • MikeL said:

    Here's the Ed speech bounce.

    Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 9s
    National Opinion Poll (YouGov):
    LAB - 37% (-1)
    CON - 33% (+2)
    UKIP - 13% (-2)
    LDEM - 7% (=)

    There seems to be confusion re yesterday's YouGov.

    Sun Politics said 31/38 - Lab lead 7

    YouGov said 31/37 - Lab lead 6

    Presumably we have to go with YouGov.

    Can you confirm?
    Yes, I'm going with yougov, as the data tables on YouGov's site, backs up YouGov's figure.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,878
    Fox Indeed, but the Stealth bombers the US has etc add that extra edge
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723
    Confirmed: Britain Elects and Sun Politics are both definitely wrong re yesterday's YouGov.

    It was 31/37 - Lab lead 6.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Your accusing me of trolling because I pointed out the fact that Carsewell and UKIP's political stunt had left his constituents without a voice in Westminster while Parliament has been recalled? Utterly pathetic! I few years ago, I cared enough to write and complain to my MP because he sat on his behookie while MPs rejected proposals to hold a UK-wide referendum on whether to ratify the EU's Lisbon Treaty! I would have been absolutely livid if he had pulled a stunt like Carsewell did just months before GE and missed the voted altogether, never mind while we were holding an Independence Referendum in another part of the UK while we were facing a serious terrorist threat from abroad.
    isam said:

    fitalass said:

    You talk about principles when just months before the next GE, Carsewell's former constituents are now left totally without a voice in Westminster now Parliament has been recalled. And, its not as if there wasn't some fairly obvious and serious indicators that a recall of Parliament might be highly likely with all the major events looming both at home and abroad in recent weeks and months, and yet he and UKIP decided to opt for an expensive political stunt instead!

    Socrates said:

    fitalass said:

    It is Douglas Carsewell who has currently left his former constituents without any form of Westminster representation in a vote on this issue now Parliament has been recalled. And its also Douglas Carsewell who has chosen to self indulgently put his constituents through a costly by-election as a UKIP political stunt just months before a GE.


    Socrates said:

    MikeK said:
    It's so painfully clear that you would be saluting someone from the hill-tops if someone crossed the floor to the Tories and did this. You aren't governed by any clear philosophy of principle: you are just one of those sycophantic Tories that will spin an anti-UKIP line with whatever argument you find lying around. No doubt if Carswell had not resigned his seat, you would be condemning him for cowardice and misrepresenting his constituents. So transparent.
    Terrible attempt at trolling, why bother?

    The constituents you are feeling so awful for, from 700 miles away, are about to re elect him, in all likelyhood with one of the biggest vote percentages in the country

    So, as the vast majority of them don't feel let down by him in the slightest, and thousands of ex conservatives are voting for him as a ukip candidate rather than the Tory, what are you basing this nonsense on?
  • The Snow-MIliband interview is up here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4ygfbpHJGM

    Why has EdM been hospitalized?
    I'm back!!!!! A spurs win thanks TSE...

    Toenails interview was in the same hospital room too with Ed. A clever PR Way clearly as labour wraps itself in the NHS. Looks weird tho
    I cashed out, so it was a profitable evening all round.
    How did I know you would say that.
    Because the cash out strategy is my modus operandi.

    You may have noticed it during the world cup.

    Except during the Germany v Brazil semi.
    In that case if you don't want to be seen as an after timer you should mention it when you post things like you did earlier, hope you all followed me in etc.

    Not sour grapes as the last thing I would do,is get involved in the early rounds of the League Cup
    I always post my tips on PB. This year I'm going through a purple patch, where nearly all my bets come off in the football.

    I'm sure normal service will be resumed, when I couldn't tip more rubbish even if you gave me a forklift truck.
    All I'm saying is that if you post tips and expect people to follow them, as by your earlier post you did, then you have to take the responsibility of posting your exit strategy as well.

    Otherwise when they have lost money and you post that you cashed out you have some very unhappy people.
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    In matches with a big fav, ht draw/full time fav is often value... But how often has it been 0-0 at ht and end up 7-0 ????

    Wasn't there a Spurs match, that was nil nil at half time and ended 9-1 to Spurs.

    Edit: Gah, it was 1 nil to Spurs at half time, and finished 9-1 to Spurs

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/8365091.stm
    I backed jermaine Defoe first goalscorer that day

    I backed Falcao first goalscorer this day

    http://www.goal.com/en-gb/match/atlético-madrid-vs-deportivo-la-coruña/1323089/report

    the previous day I had forgotten to put on £100 at 66/1 Ibisevic to score a hat trick for Stuttgart because I had such a bad hangover... Of course it copped... A bad birthday weekend
    I always lose money in matches involving Wigan.
    Wigan were top of my list of teams never to get involved with, City were the same until the money turned up.

    Currently Southampton are not to be trusted.
    My bogey side at the moment are Arsenal.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,878
    Fox Indeed, I think Sturgeon deep down is more of a realist than Salmond and will focus on Devomax for now
  • I try to avoid watching politicians on TV for fear of being provoked into kicking the screen in.

    But by accident I saw a minute of EdM with Jon Snow.

    Dear me he was crap.

    I was amused by the part where he claimed he wanted to get away from the Westminster bubble.

    Does that mean EdM is planning on spending more than two hours a year in his own constituency ? Or does he just mean he'll be exploring the borders of Primrose Hill ? If so might SeanT get to meet him ?

    Well, he went to the park last week and met Colin or was it Gareth, I forget.
  • Labour lead collapses by a third in first poll following David milibands make or break last pre election conference speech.

    Was David M speaking for or against his brother?
    Lolz.
  • HYUFD said:

    TSE So an Ed boomerang bounce!

    I'll say what I said last night, conference polling is erratic and volatile, best off waiting until mid October before judging the polling.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Just watched the snow interview with ed and the labour front bench haven't a clue on economics,Christ they bad.

    But I'm beginning to think,ed's ,shit hitting the fan proof ;-) can someone tell me when if ever we will see regular tory leads in the polls ;-)

    Just asking,abit worried about me country ;-)

    And you haven't a clue about punctuation and grammar!

    Just watched the Snow interview with Ed, and the Labour Front Bench haven't a clue on economics. Christ, they are bad!

    But I'm beginning to think, Ed's shit-hitting-the-fan-proof ;-)
    Can someone tell me when, if ever, we will see regular Tory leads in the polls? ;-)

    Just asking; a bit worried about my country ;-)

    Give us a break Grammar Nazi ;-)

    Is it that obvious I was brought up in a labour city ;-)
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Fraser Nelson (@FraserNelson)
    24/09/2014 21:54
    A man has been charged in connection with roadside bombs recovered from Al Anbar province in Iraq. He's from Wembley: bbc.in/1pdigjA
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,789
    edited September 2014
    fitalass said:

    Your accusing me of trolling because I pointed out the fact that Carsewell and UKIP's political stunt had left his constituents without a voice in Westminster while Parliament has been recalled? Utterly pathetic! I few years ago, I cared enough to write and complain to my MP because he sat on his behookie while MPs rejected proposals to hold a UK-wide referendum on whether to ratify the EU's Lisbon Treaty! I would have been absolutely livid if he had pulled a stunt like Carsewell did just months before GE and missed the voted altogether, never mind while we were holding an Independence Referendum in another part of the UK while we were facing a serious terrorist threat from abroad.



    So what was your view about Rory Stewart MP missing the Bomb Syria vote to go to a wedding ?

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,878
    edited September 2014
    BBC News Ed Miliband 'wishes he had spoken about the deficit in his speech, it would be had I done it again' OOPS!
  • Sean_F said:

    Here's the Ed speech bounce.

    Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 9s
    National Opinion Poll (YouGov):
    LAB - 37% (-1)
    CON - 33% (+2)
    UKIP - 13% (-2)
    LDEM - 7% (=)

    I think Labour are unchanged. But, it's not much of a bounce. IMHO, Labour could be c. 34% after the Tory conference.

    It's perfectly possible for the Tories to have a good conference, and not get much out of it. UKIP's success on 9th October might quickly scupper any momentum anyway. At this stage it's about fighting the Labour poll lead to a standstill, and destroying credibility, so they can hopefully pull ahead in the new year.

    However, nothing's certain. The Tories have perfected a habit of taking long careful aim at Labour, before dropping the barrel at the last minute and shooting themselves in the foot. Sometimes they just do that anyway - like with their own membership and activist base.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited September 2014

    You're angrier than his constituents, they're just about to elect him by a landslide.

    You're spelling Carswell incorrectly, I know you wouldn't be childish enough to do it deliberately
    fitalass said:

    Your accusing me of trolling because I pointed out the fact that Carsewell and UKIP's political stunt had left his constituents without a voice in Westminster while Parliament has been recalled? Utterly pathetic! I few years ago, I cared enough to write and complain to my MP because he sat on his behookie while MPs rejected proposals to hold a UK-wide referendum on whether to ratify the EU's Lisbon Treaty! I would have been absolutely livid if he had pulled a stunt like Carsewell did just months before GE and missed the voted altogether, never mind while we were holding an Independence Referendum in another part of the UK while we were facing a serious terrorist threat from abroad.

    isam said:

    fitalass said:

    You talk about principles when just months before the next GE, Carsewell's former constituents are now left totally without a voice in Westminster now Parliament has been recalled. And, its not as if there wasn't some fairly obvious and serious indicators that a recall of Parliament might be highly likely with all the major events looming both at home and abroad in recent weeks and months, and yet he and UKIP decided to opt for an expensive political stunt instead!

    Socrates said:

    fitalass said:

    It is Douglas Carsewell who has currently left his former constituents without any form of Westminster representation in a vote on this issue now Parliament has been recalled. And its also Douglas Carsewell who has chosen to self indulgently put his constituents through a costly by-election as a UKIP political stunt just months before a GE.


    Socrates said:
    Terrible attempt at trolling, why bother?

    The constituents you are feeling so awful for, from 700 miles away, are about to re elect him, in all likelyhood with one of the biggest vote percentages in the country

    So, as the vast majority of them don't feel let down by him in the slightest, and thousands of ex conservatives are voting for him as a ukip candidate rather than the Tory, what are you basing this nonsense on?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,878
    Ed M 'We have given a clear sense we want to get the deficit down, like the 50% tax rate and measures to make the rich pay more'
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,808
    O/T

    In the last 8 days the RSPB has released details of the mysterious disappearance of 1 Satellite Tagged Montagu's Harrier and 2 Satellite Tagged Hen Harriers. Killing these birds is a criminal act. As usual, the silence is deafening from Defra Ministers.

    As a result of Government inaction, a campaign is growing to ban driven grouse shooting, given that it's success seems to rely on criminal activity. The petition can be seen at http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/65627

    I'm not anti-shooting, in fact I beat on a pheasant shoot, but uplands managers and their keepers need a wake up. It's not acceptable to wipe out protected species.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    edited September 2014
    Syria/Iraq

    US is now beginning to target IS oil trade from Syrian facilities. Disruption there is a useful weapon. The biggest single income for IS is its own 'business' activities not external funders.

    Full expectation that a number of oil related facilities will be hit this evening in E. Syria.

    Abu Qatada by the way, he of long running extradition case. Acquitted in Jordan apparently...

    Edit: There is rumour of IS doing a prisoner release shortly. No info who/what prisoners exactly.
  • fitalass said:

    Great, another one spouting about Carsewell's 'principles'! Meantime, the constituents he promised to serve are sitting without any representation in Westminster during an extraordinary few weeks in UK political history! This whole by-election stunt was timed to fit in with Carsewell's and UKIP's own political timetable. Nothing like getting your priorities right, the politician and his new party first, the constituents and voters second!

    fitalass said:

    It is Douglas Carsewell who has currently left his former constituents without any form of Westminster representation in a vote on this issue now Parliament has been recalled. And its also Douglas Carsewell who has chosen to self indulgently put his constituents through a costly by-election as a UKIP political stunt just months before a GE.


    Socrates said:

    MikeK said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29339787

    Parliament recalled over air strikes on Islamic State in Iraq

    Cammo trying to drown out the start of the UKIP Conference in Doncaster?
    It won't help him or any of the Lab/Lib/Con team.

    Louise Mensch ✔ @LouiseMensch
    .@chrisg0000 @HouseOfTwitsCon Cam should have waited for the #UKIP conference so they can send back all their MPs. #ohwait
    Douglas Carswel's little toe makes more of an MP than Louise "revolving door" Mensch ever did...
    He could have just crossed the floor but is a man of principle, something I wouldn't expect you to understand.
    Well if what you say is true then he won't be an MP on October 10th and you'll be here crowing about his defeat to a Tory

This discussion has been closed.