English votes for English laws in a UK parliament is a great idea! Let's have a government who potentially can't get any English laws passed but who has a majority in the commons!
Or, let's have a smaller Westminster, and have English laws made in an English parliament. As a democrat I'm sure that England will vote to do things differently to elsewhere. But doing that wityjin the existing Westminster system will be chaos.
On the pessimistic side - Dave's a wet blanket with the killer instincts of dodo. .
He isn't. He's a very shrewd politician who is holding together disparate people, including another entire party in government.
I think when the annals are written Cameron will go down as one of the great Prime Minister's. So, he lacks the chutzpah of Thatcher, but this isn't the time to be divisive.
Brilliant PM. Just hope the country realises it in time.
p.s. oh and Mike dooooo please put a sock in your anti-Tory bias just for once.
Come on cameron... Finally stick up for us south of the border...
Cameron should be magnanimous in victory. Salmond will now have to dance to his tune.
You're kidding aren't you? They are already moving on. Salmond has lost the battle but not yet the war by any means (and I say this as an Englishman). He's got the whole Devomax game to play knowing Cameron and Downing Street are very poor at the game.
For example perhaps he might commit to give the final decision on acceptance of Devomax to the Scottish people (with a view to offering another independence vote if they turn it down) with another referendum. Who knows what divides in the Unionists such a ploy might achieve. If I were Salmond getting 44% of the vote or thereabouts I wouldn't give up.
Not only that but if he offers Scotland another referendum then Westminster and Cardiff will be obliged to do so as well. Westminster would have a seizure. Salmond can cause all sorts of mayhem yet!
So 'poor at the game' that they held a coalition together for nearly five years; won the AV vote and helped win the independence referendum.
Yes, they're obviously really poor at the game.
1) Its not hard to hold a coalition together when your partners are facing electoral destruction (turkeys rarely vote for Christmas)
2) As The Av Referendum Campaign Director highlighted it was the work of Labour Party Officials and their network (and not least forcing Cameron into allowing Nick Clegg to become a target) that won it for no. Cameron only put up the cash and almost blew it being loyal to his little friend Nicky.
3) Given that Scotland is virtually a Tory free zone in Parliamentary terms I don't think Cameron has much claim on that victory either.
1) Rubbish. Coalition is hard, and requires maturity on both sides to build a working consensus. Before GE2010 Labour couldn't even hold itself together; there was more division in six months of Brown's Labour than we've seen in the entire four-and-a-bit months of the coalition. They were facing electoral destruction and fell apart.
2) The AV campaign was won. If Cameron won it and managed to keep Clegg and the Lib Dems on side, then it is even more impressive.
3) The Conservatives have over 400,000 Scottish voters. I would reckon the Conservatives delivered the vast majority of those to No. It was Labour who had the problem delivering their supporters.
As usual, the 'Cameron is useless' cries fall at first contact with reality. I don't want to sound like Richard Navabi, but it's hard not to when the arguments used against Cameron are so weak.
Cam rules out another referendum for just about forever.
That won't stop the SNP calling one if there is a demand in Scotland
He was using Salmond's own words
Do you think Salmond will deny the will of the people if it suits his purpose? Salmond has proved that direct democracy works if the issue is important enough.
If I were him I'd invite the Scottish people to approve the Devomax offering from Westminster by referendum! (see Cameron try to argue against that).....
Dave says a Cabinet Committee is going to draw it up.
Same timetable as for Scotland.
This puts Dave in the driving seat.
I think many Lib Dems back EVFEL, but it is difficult. Most of this stems from the Tories poor record in Scotland. I think if the Tories had say atleast 10 Scottish MP's they needed to get their legislation through, that they would have a different position.
Labour won't accept EVFEL because if they win a small majority, when they come to pass legislation affecting England or have HOC votes on English issues, they will face being voted against purely for political reasons. The Tories if they could would try to derail a Labour government using any EVFEL convention drawn up.
It will be noteworthy to see how many Conservative MPs remain blinded by their hatred of their leader.
Theres a much bigger prize to win... The chance to really stuff labour in England.
There's a reason the Conservative party is called the stupid party.
For evidence:
"@TimMontgomerie: Don't much like the complicated, bureaucratic English votes for English laws; English Parliament much cleaner, more potent way forward."
"@TimMontgomerie: Disappointing Hague's already ruled out English parliament. Opportunity for UKIP to abolish Barnett and give England same status as Scotland"
For some Conservatives, their highly contentious conception of Best is the enemy of their party's interest of Good.
On the pessimistic side - Dave's a wet blanket with the killer instincts of dodo. .
He isn't. He's a very shrewd politician who is holding together disparate people, including another entire party in government.
I think when the annals are written Cameron will go down as one of the great Prime Minister's. So, he lacks the chutzpah of Thatcher, but this isn't the time to be divisive.
Brilliant PM. Just hope the country realises it in time.
p.s. oh and Mike dooooo please put a sock in your anti-Tory bias just for once.
You are joking aren't you. With hindsight conceding Salmond the terms of the referendum then hiding for the vast majority of the campaign might be seen to be a stroke of genius, as it gives eck little traction for whinging. But the 11th hour panic that has led to devomax and the pledge suggest no, it was just the usual running round like a headless chicken
It will be noteworthy to see how many Conservative MPs remain blinded by their hatred of their leader.
Theres a much bigger prize to win... The chance to really stuff labour in England.
There's a reason the Conservative party is called the stupid party.
For evidence:
"@TimMontgomerie: Don't much like the complicated, bureaucratic English votes for English laws; English Parliament much cleaner, more potent way forward."
"@TimMontgomerie: Disappointing Hague's already ruled out English parliament. Opportunity for UKIP to abolish Barnett and give England same status as Scotland"
For some Conservatives, their highly contentious conception of Best is the enemy of their party's interest of Good.
Youve got to win the battles you're in. EV4EL is a good prize, and a potential stepping stone
The one thing that comes out of this is the vital need for political change in England. Westminster must put its centralising instincts to one side and deal with the West Lothian Question and the need for enhanced regional decision making in England.
@PCollinsTimes: It is now likely that even if Ed M is PM in 2015 Labour will not command a majority on health, education and welfare.
Unless they just vote through a change in the supposed law. Parliament is Sovereign so nothing to stop it. BTW, i don't think any of these new provisions are going to be implemented pre-election. Cameron made that clear when he said it is for the next Parliament to take the proposals forward.
Come on cameron... Finally stick up for us south of the border...
Cameron should be magnanimous in victory. Salmond will now have to dance to his tune.
You're kidding aren't you? They are already moving on. Salmond has lost the battle but not yet the war by any means (and I say this as an Englishman). He's got the whole Devomax game to play knowing Cameron and Downing Street are very poor at the game.
For example perhaps he might commit to give the final decision on acceptance of Devomax to the Scottish people (with a view to offering another independence vote if they turn it down) with another referendum. Who knows what divides in the Unionists such a ploy might achieve. If I were Salmond getting 44% of the vote or thereabouts I wouldn't give up.
Not only that but if he offers Scotland another referendum then Westminster and Cardiff will be obliged to do so as well. Westminster would have a seizure. Salmond can cause all sorts of mayhem yet!
So 'poor at the game' that they held a coalition together for nearly five years; won the AV vote and helped win the independence referendum.
Yes, they're obviously really poor at the game.
1) Its not hard to hold a coalition together when your partners are facing electoral destruction (turkeys rarely vote for Christmas)
2) As The Av Referendum Campaign Director highlighted it was the work of Labour Party Officials and their network (and not least forcing Cameron into allowing Nick Clegg to become a target) that won it for no. Cameron only put up the cash and almost blew it being loyal to his little friend Nicky.
3) Given that Scotland is virtually a Tory free zone in Parliamentary terms I don't think Cameron has much claim on that victory either.
As usual, the 'Cameron is useless' cries fall at first contact with reality. I don't want to sound like Richard Navabi, but it's hard not to when the arguments used against Cameron are so weak.
Well said.
It's so easy to hail a figure from the past like Thatcher, conveniently forgetting just how divisive she was. And this isn't 1979: it simply is not the time to be putting the sword to outdated ways in the manner that was necessary back then.
This English votes for English matters is an absolute blinder, and putting Hague, who is widely respected across the House, in charge is so smart.
Cameron has played a masterstroke. Great PM. The right-wing press will show big support this weekend. Watch for a bounce. Eventually, and doubtless begrudgingly, he might even get a nod from Mike Smithson. Well, you never know.
Not sure why right-wingers are so keen on an English Parliament. A parliament dealing mainly in Health and Education is not likely to be Tory dominated...
Not sure why right-wingers are so keen on an English Parliament. A parliament dealing mainly in Health and Education is not likely to be Tory dominated...
Which shows how much you miss the point. This isn't about doing it 'for the Tories' it is about doing it 'for the English' so that the United Kingdom is constitutionally balanced.
Not sure why right-wingers are so keen on an English Parliament. A parliament dealing mainly in Health and Education is not likely to be Tory dominated...
Good point! It is quite possible that a tory UK PM couldn't get his policies past a tory English FM.
Can someone, anyone please explain how you define an English bill to enable any EV4EL proposals to be implemented? And how, even if so defined, you can prevent any bill being "turned" into a UK bill simply by adding a clause which affects the UK as a whole.
Even more mischievously you could have a situation where a bill is passed by the Commons on an "English only" basis, only to be amended in the House of Lords turning it into a UK bill. Would give a new meaning to the term "wrecking amendment"!
Time has come to change the electoral system to proportional representation. Yes we will have mostly coalition governments, but it encourages consensus building. Also the Tories will get some representation at Westminster in relation to Scotland. UKIP would get their fair share of seats. The Greens would also benefit.
This is logical to me. FPTP is a silly system that does not suit the UK when it has more than two strong parties. We could end up in 2015, with a Labour government after them winning just 35% of the vote. They might not agree to EVFEL and will implement English law, even though they did not have most English MP's or win the largest share of the English votes.
I don't think it matters if the LibDems are up for it or not. Draft the Vow legislation with EVFEL anyway. And then dare Labour or LibDems to vote against it - and reap the whirlwind if they do. I would enjoy immensely the sight of Miliblob explaining why he thought the Scots should vote on health, education, etc for England. Farage would rip him apart too. It's lose/lose for Labour - a kind of karmic payback for starting the devolution train and demonising the Tories in the first place
Also EVFEL is enough for now. A full English PArliament is obviously better but much more complex and problematical to deliver. But EVFEL starts a train in motion that has only 1 endpoint: A Parliament. Just as Devolution could only lead ultimately to Devomax or Independence so EVFEL can only ever lead ultimately to a full EP in time. It's job done.
@audreyanne Cameron has not so much played a blinder, as started to realise that a government is for the people, not for profit. How long this lasts is a moot point.
Not sure why right-wingers are so keen on an English Parliament. A parliament dealing mainly in Health and Education is not likely to be Tory dominated...
Good point! It is quite possible that a tory UK PM couldn't get his policies past a tory English FM.
I guess also one would expect any English Parliament (as with Scotland/Wales/NI) to be constituted under some sort of PR system. Is the "problem" of sometimes being outvoted by Scottish MPs in Westminster, worth giving up the opportunity of ever having a majority on domestic policy?
It's so easy to hail a figure from the past like Thatcher, conveniently forgetting just how divisive she was. And this isn't 1979: it simply is not the time to be putting the sword to outdated ways in the manner that was necessary back then.
This English votes for English matters is an absolute blinder, and putting Hague, who is widely respected across the House, in charge is so smart.
Cameron has played a masterstroke. Great PM. The right-wing press will show big support this weekend. Watch for a bounce. Eventually, and doubtless begrudgingly, he might even get a nod from Mike Smithson. Well, you never know.
I certainly wouldn't call him great; he's certainly been far better than Brown, but his true place in history will not become clear for decades.
Cameron is flawed: IMO he is too hands-off and, if anything, does not lead the media enough. Some may see that as a welcome relief after the New Labour years; it's disastrous for a political leader. I get the impression he does not care what people think about him, which is both a necessary thing and a danger. The allegation that he just follows polling is demonstrably wrong; in fact he should appear/pretend to do so more often.
He's made some serious mis-steps and could have achieved more in this parliamentary term, despite the coalition. He could have spiked UKIP early on (although UKIP supporters may not have liked the end results of an early referendum, and it is unclear what he could do to satisfy some UKIP supporters aside from immediate seppuku). He should have gone harder on Labour and shown them to be the nasty party they really are. And he had a moral reason to do so after McBride. Instead he let Labour turn phone-hacking from a Labour issue into a Conservative one.
But in general, I think he's been good. And with respect to the economy and unemployment, despite the woes elsewhere in Europe and the world, he's been stellar.
My main gripe with an English parly is the extra layer of govt. Need less of them not more.
Ok what you do is have 530 MPs as is now in the English Parliament. 300 members in two houses for the federal UK Parliament and you abolish the House of Lords
Current total UK Parliament and House of Lords 650+828=1478
Proposed Total English Parliament +Federal Parliament 530+300 = 830. Net Saving 648
More democracy, likely lesser costs and fewer politicians in Westminster. Job done
I'm left wing and want an English parliament! First and foremost we are a democracy, I might not always agree with the results of elections but its the will of the people. We currently have the silly situation where the UK has devolved some powers to some nations and not others. The principle of the nations choosing their own path on certain issues is now laid in stone, so we need (finally) to lay down the constitutional framework to support that.
If large numbers of legal and budgetary issues have been devolved from the UK Parliament to national parliaments then we need to do two things. 1. Create an English parliament, and 2. Reduce the UK parliament in size. If as the Tories suggest we just have the UK dictate what England gets then you need to abolish the other parliaments as that principle works just as well everywhere.
This is beyond party politics. I'm a Labour activist and I'm calling for an English parliament that will have a substantial Tory representation if that's the will of the people. But we do need a settlement and a constitutional arrangement that's fit for the future. EV4EL is fine as a principle but ridiculous in execution within a UK parliament.
A UK Parliament that raises the money, for an English Parliament to spend, also doesn't sound like a particularly good idea. So in practice you would be moving towards federal and national taxation and hypothecated taxes. Would the English Parliament be restricted in what taxes it could use though? You wouldn't want all of their money to come from income taxation if you don't favour high income taxes (as opposed to, say, sales taxes).
Give them freedom over what taxation they can raise and they are in direct conflict with Westminster and the taxes that it needs. Not to mention unhelpful tax competition between constituent units of the UK.
My main gripe with an English parly is the extra layer of govt. Need less of them not more.
Ok what you do is have 530 MPs as is now in the English Parliament. 300 members in two houses for the federal UK Parliament and you abolish the House of Lords
Current total UK Parliament and House of Lords 650+828=1478
Proposed Total English Parliament +Federal Parliament 530+300 = 830. Net Saving 648
More democracy, likely lesser costs and fewer politicians in Westminster. Job done
Oh and you can have PR for both of the UK Parliaments
Tony Benn's Commonwealth of Britain Bill of the 90s sorts this mess out (I wouldn't abolish the monarchy though). A federal structure. A smaller UK parliament, and parliaments in each member nation to sort their own affairs. And full PR to elect them.
We need a constitutional revolution to create a system fit for purpose. EV4EL in Westminster is a clever bit of politics but is no solution to a mess that has been around for a while.
I'm left wing and want an English parliament! First and foremost we are a democracy, I might not always agree with the results of elections but its the will of the people. We currently have the silly situation where the UK has devolved some powers to some nations and not others. The principle of the nations choosing their own path on certain issues is now laid in stone, so we need (finally) to lay down the constitutional framework to support that.
If large numbers of legal and budgetary issues have been devolved from the UK Parliament to national parliaments then we need to do two things. 1. Create an English parliament, and 2. Reduce the UK parliament in size. If as the Tories suggest we just have the UK dictate what England gets then you need to abolish the other parliaments as that principle works just as well everywhere.
This is beyond party politics. I'm a Labour activist and I'm calling for an English parliament that will have a substantial Tory representation if that's the will of the people. But we do need a settlement and a constitutional arrangement that's fit for the future. EV4EL is fine as a principle but ridiculous in execution within a UK parliament.
Ridiculous it may be but I'm not sure it is an urgent problem. We've somehow muddled through with an unelected second chamber for centuries.
A UK Parliament that raises the money, for an English Parliament to spend, also doesn't sound like a particularly good idea. So in practice you would be moving towards federal and national taxation and hypothecated taxes. Would the English Parliament be restricted in what taxes it could use though? You wouldn't want all of their money to come from income taxation if you don't favour high income taxes (as opposed to, say, sales taxes).
Give them freedom over what taxation they can raise and they are in direct conflict with Westminster and the taxes that it needs. Not to mention unhelpful tax competition between constituent units of the UK.
Would you like to explain how tax competition could be in anyway "unhelpful".
It is a ususeful butress against govt lunacy when politicans are forced to be carefull with the taxpayers money.
Interesting Josias. I mostly agree with that. To be fair I did mention 'the annals of history' a few posts back. On one point I'm not so sure: about 'being liked.' Ken Livingstone described it as Boris's biggest fault: the constant concern to know what people think about him. I've met Cameron and I did, indeed, find him slightly aloof. I've come to see that as a potentially massive strength.
IF you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you, If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, But make allowance for their doubting too; If you can wait and not be tired by waiting, Or being lied about, don't deal in lies, Or being hated, don't give way to hating, And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise …
Cameron is in a different mould to most PM's we've had of recent years. I'm not sure to whom to compare him. He's much too shrewd to be likened to Eden. That he has held together the coalition whilst seeing a resurgent UK economy is quite some feat. If he doesn't win outright next year we need our collective heads seeing to. Unfortunately, there are still some rancorous malcontents on the right who lost theirs a while back. Appeasing them whilst winning the centre ground, where all general elections are won or lost, is one of Cameron's trickier tasks. But the boy is doing well. Very well.
Farage on ITV goes after Barnett. EVfEL is a 'first step'. Needs English Parliament and needs constitutional convention England rotten deal currently. Cameron panicking over English Question Hague coming up with solution in committee in few weeks not suitable.
Farage on ITV goes after Barnett. EVfEL is a 'first step'. Needs English Parliament and needs constitutional convention England rotten deal currently. Cameron panicking over English Question Hague coming up with solution in committee in few weeks not suitable.
its not a few weeks they will have been thinking about it for a long time
* A "Yes" share of 42.25% would result in a nationwide margin of victory for "No" of 400,000 * A "Yes" share of 48.30% would result in the national "No" total being 2,000,000
Farage on ITV goes after Barnett. EVfEL is a 'first step'. Needs English Parliament and needs constitutional convention England rotten deal currently. Cameron panicking over English Question Hague coming up with solution in committee in few weeks not suitable.
its not a few weeks they will have been thinking about it for a long time
Hague is standing down in May and Cameron has promised it on the same timetable as Devomax. Draft legislation is due early next year! Unless you are suggesting it is a fait accompli that they intended to foist on the English people anyway?
PS Didn't they kick it inot the long grass because of the Coalition?
Interesting Josias. I mostly agree with that. To be fair I did mention 'the annals of history' a few posts back. On one point I'm not so sure: about 'being liked.' Ken Livingstone described it as Boris's biggest fault: the constant concern to know what people think about him. I've met Cameron and I did, indeed, find him slightly aloof. I've come to see that as a potentially massive strength.
IF you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you, If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, But make allowance for their doubting too; If you can wait and not be tired by waiting, Or being lied about, don't deal in lies, Or being hated, don't give way to hating, And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise …
Cameron is in a different mould to most PM's we've had of recent years. I'm not sure to whom to compare him. He's much too shrewd to be likened to Eden. That he has held together the coalition whilst seeing a resurgent UK economy is quite some feat. If he doesn't win outright next year we need our collective heads seeing to. Unfortunately, there are still some rancorous malcontents on the right who lost theirs a while back. Appeasing them whilst winning the centre ground, where all general elections are won or lost, is one of Cameron's trickier tasks. But the boy is doing well. Very well.
Douglas Home perhaps (I haven't spent particularly long considering this).
Of course with so few recent prime ministers there may well not be a good fit.
And a pretty damn good result. OK I think I lost a fiver or so overall on the result on the night but Cameron will remain in place, and so will Ed and the Scottish seats will still be there at the next GE - all of which are important elements to my General Election Betting Portfolio.
@Bond_James_Bond If you can give £13 to one of Cancer Research, Cats Protection League or this website then that will settle our 43%+/- bet up.
@TheUnionDivvie Well at least Yes can take some crumbs of comfort in that the result was NOT the 40-60 that JackW and a few others were predicting, though I was confident of a No victory - have to admit those last few polls did get me worried I'd pay up on our bet.
Interesting Josias. I mostly agree with that. To be fair I did mention 'the annals of history' a few posts back. On one point I'm not so sure: about 'being liked.' Ken Livingstone described it as Boris's biggest fault: the constant concern to know what people think about him. I've met Cameron and I did, indeed, find him slightly aloof. I've come to see that as a potentially massive strength.
IF you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you, If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, But make allowance for their doubting too; If you can wait and not be tired by waiting, Or being lied about, don't deal in lies, Or being hated, don't give way to hating, And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise …
Cameron is in a different mould to most PM's we've had of recent years. I'm not sure to whom to compare him. He's much too shrewd to be likened to Eden. That he has held together the coalition whilst seeing a resurgent UK economy is quite some feat. If he doesn't win outright next year we need our collective heads seeing to. Unfortunately, there are still some rancorous malcontents on the right who lost theirs a while back. Appeasing them whilst winning the centre ground, where all general elections are won or lost, is one of Cameron's trickier tasks. But the boy is doing well. Very well.
He has always played best and most radically when under pressure.
His problem is it seems to take real pressure to really bring the best out of him.
Farage on ITV goes after Barnett. EVfEL is a 'first step'. Needs English Parliament and needs constitutional convention England rotten deal currently. Cameron panicking over English Question Hague coming up with solution in committee in few weeks not suitable.
its not a few weeks they will have been thinking about it for a long time
Hague is standing down in May and Cameron has promised it on the same timetable as Devomax. Draft legislation is due early next year! Unless you are suggesting it is a fait accompli that they intended to foist on the English people anyway?
PS Didn't they kick it inot the long grass because of the Coalition?
Its been a question that's been around since the 70's I feel sure the mandarins will have game planned scenarios over the last 40 yrs, it just needs dusting off (cf Sir Humphrey Appleby and Freedom of Information.
Very good speech by Cameron this morning. Set exactly the right tone and also said all the right things. Hopefully he will be able to get this stuff through and will not end up being frustrated by the other parties.
Personally I am disappointed with the result but that is relatively easy for me as I was not directly affected, nor could I vote. Philosophically and emotionally I would have liked to see an Independent Scotland but that was not the will of the people who really mattered.
Going forward I see no practical issues with the EVEL proposals and would hope to see them enacted as soon as possible. I am not personally in favour of a separate English Parliament as I believe it is unnecessary. A simple law banning MPs sitting for Scottish seats from voting on any devolved issues would be sufficient. We could simplify it even more by devolving more powers to Scotland and tidying up some of the idiocies we were discussing last week such as University education being devolved but not University research.
Aberdeen seemed subdued this morning but I suspect that is because anyone who cared about the result was up watching and is now getting some sleep.
Woke up just in time to hear Cameron's response. I still want an English Parliament, but English votes for English laws is a move in the right direction (although I want it to be watertight so, as mentioned below, a perfidious Labour Government would not simply add a Scottish clause to 'make' a bill UK-wide).
Edited extra bit: practice in Singapore is at 11am and 2.30pm today.
Woke up just in time to hear Cameron's response. I still want an English Parliament, but English votes for English laws is a move in the right direction (although I want it to be watertight so, as mentioned below, a perfidious Labour Government would not simply add a Scottish clause to 'make' a bill UK-wide).
Edited extra bit: practice in Singapore is at 11am and 2.30pm today.
An English parliament would likely be Labour-dominated anyway.
Very good speech by Cameron this morning. Set exactly the right tone and also said all the right things. Hopefully he will be able to get this stuff through and will not end up being frustrated by the other parties.
Personally I am disappointed with the result but that is relatively easy for me as I was not directly affected, nor could I vote. Philosophically and emotionally I would have liked to see an Independent Scotland but that was not the will of the people who really mattered.
Going forward I see no practical issues with the EVEL proposals and would hope to see them enacted as soon as possible. I am not personally in favour of a separate English Parliament as I believe it is unnecessary. A simple law banning MPs sitting for Scottish seats from voting on any devolved issues would be sufficient. We could simplify it even more by devolving more powers to Scotland and tidying up some of the idiocies we were discussing last week such as University education being devolved but not University research.
Aberdeen seemed subdued this morning but I suspect that is because anyone who cared about the result was up watching and is now getting some sleep.
So you are happy that a Scottish Chancellor/ Prime Minister like Brown or a Scottish Chief Secretary like Alexander would decide the specific budget priorities for devolved English areas. As these are decided as part of the Budget they will be voted on by the UK Parliament not an English subset and be controlled by the UK Party whips.
English votes over devolved areas is meaningless without English Government.
Well, given the coverage it seems like most Scots wanted to go in their hearts, but enough of them were feart in practice and want the rest of us Brits to provide them economic security. Well, fine, but if there's no shared nationhood any more it has to be the end of Scotland's most favoured nation status in the union. No more one-way devolution of powers. No more subsidy from the South East. Every MP for an English seat must be reminded this when they are considering following up on on the Cameron-Miliband-Clegg reward for Scottish disloyalty. Otherwise these numbers should be a bar chart on every UKIP leaflet at the next election:
England: £8,529 Scotland: £10,512
If people feel there should be more money for access to GP appointments and prescriptions, that's the first place where it can be found.
I hope no one has beaten me, I had 55.15 NO 44.85 YES t/o 86.32 I could do with M Smithson advising me on placing some winning bets for my charity LUPUS UK ..
Interesting Josias. I mostly agree with that. To be fair I did mention 'the annals of history' a few posts back. On one point I'm not so sure: about 'being liked.' Ken Livingstone described it as Boris's biggest fault: the constant concern to know what people think about him. I've met Cameron and I did, indeed, find him slightly aloof. I've come to see that as a potentially massive strength.
IF you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you, If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, But make allowance for their doubting too; If you can wait and not be tired by waiting, Or being lied about, don't deal in lies, Or being hated, don't give way to hating, And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise …
Cameron is in a different mould to most PM's we've had of recent years. I'm not sure to whom to compare him. He's much too shrewd to be likened to Eden. That he has held together the coalition whilst seeing a resurgent UK economy is quite some feat. If he doesn't win outright next year we need our collective heads seeing to. Unfortunately, there are still some rancorous malcontents on the right who lost theirs a while back. Appeasing them whilst winning the centre ground, where all general elections are won or lost, is one of Cameron's trickier tasks. But the boy is doing well. Very well.
He has always played best and most radically when under pressure.
His problem is it seems to take real pressure to really bring the best out of him.
What now necessarily has to follow is careful and detailed consideration of a complex constitutional settlement, one which needs to be in place by May next year. It's the kind of job that would suit John Major, but unfortunately, Dave's record doesn't suggest that it's going to go well.
Farage on ITV goes after Barnett. EVfEL is a 'first step'. Needs English Parliament and needs constitutional convention England rotten deal currently. Cameron panicking over English Question Hague coming up with solution in committee in few weeks not suitable.
Farage standing on Justice for England ticket then.
Farage on ITV goes after Barnett. EVfEL is a 'first step'. Needs English Parliament and needs constitutional convention England rotten deal currently. Cameron panicking over English Question Hague coming up with solution in committee in few weeks not suitable.
Farage standing on Justice for England ticket then.
Just got to work and missed Cameron's speech. Will he get EVEL through before the election? If not, it's just another empty promise as he won't be PM after the election.
Given the size of the win, I think there's grounds to scrap devolution. The people of Scotland clearly feel that they want to be part of the Union. EVEL could get very messy and I think it would be better if the devolved bodies were scrapped and we went back to a level playing field in Westminster.
Very good speech by Cameron this morning. Set exactly the right tone and also said all the right things. Hopefully he will be able to get this stuff through and will not end up being frustrated by the other parties.
Personally I am disappointed with the result but that is relatively easy for me as I was not directly affected, nor could I vote. Philosophically and emotionally I would have liked to see an Independent Scotland but that was not the will of the people who really mattered.
Going forward I see no practical issues with the EVEL proposals and would hope to see them enacted as soon as possible. I am not personally in favour of a separate English Parliament as I believe it is unnecessary. A simple law banning MPs sitting for Scottish seats from voting on any devolved issues would be sufficient. We could simplify it even more by devolving more powers to Scotland and tidying up some of the idiocies we were discussing last week such as University education being devolved but not University research.
Aberdeen seemed subdued this morning but I suspect that is because anyone who cared about the result was up watching and is now getting some sleep.
So you are happy that a Scottish Chancellor like Brown or a Scottish Chief Secretary like Alexander would decide the specific budget priorities for devolved English areas. As these are decided as part of the Budget they will be voted on by the UK Parliament not an English subset and be controlled by the UK Party whips
Yes. For better or worse we remain a United Kingdom and I believe that involves some element of compromise. I certainly don't believe that a separate English Parliament - yet another tier of Government - is necessary nor desirable so I whatever solution we have I would want it to remain within the current Parliamentary structure. And that includes a non elected revising upper chamber. The one change I would make there would be to have every vote there free with whips banned.
Very good speech by Cameron this morning. Set exactly the right tone and also said all the right things. Hopefully he will be able to get this stuff through and will not end up being frustrated by the other parties.
Personally I am disappointed with the result but that is relatively easy for me as I was not directly affected, nor could I vote. Philosophically and emotionally I would have liked to see an Independent Scotland but that was not the will of the people who really mattered.
Going forward I see no practical issues with the EVEL proposals and would hope to see them enacted as soon as possible. I am not personally in favour of a separate English Parliament as I believe it is unnecessary. A simple law banning MPs sitting for Scottish seats from voting on any devolved issues would be sufficient. We could simplify it even more by devolving more powers to Scotland and tidying up some of the idiocies we were discussing last week such as University education being devolved but not University research.
Aberdeen seemed subdued this morning but I suspect that is because anyone who cared about the result was up watching and is now getting some sleep.
So you are happy that a Scottish Chancellor/ Prime Minister like Brown or a Scottish Chief Secretary like Alexander would decide the specific budget priorities for devolved English areas. As these are decided as part of the Budget they will be voted on by the UK Parliament not an English subset and be controlled by the UK Party whips.
English votes over devolved areas is meaningless without English Government.
Instead of pouring over the finer details of how it will be worked through, perhaps today is for being thankful 'that' it will be worked through? Just a thought.
Great news that William Hague will be steering it, and I'm sure he will have already given it a lot of thought and been working with civil servants on detailing, all of which will be revealed in due course. Hague will be brilliant in this role.
From a party political point of view there is some pressure now on Miliband, and Clegg. Miliband has shown himself to be a thoroughly unscrupulous and nasty piece of work so we shall see how he goes about trying to scupper this for his own ends, rather than those of the English (and Scots, Welsh and northern Irish).
Farage on ITV goes after Barnett. EVfEL is a 'first step'. Needs English Parliament and needs constitutional convention England rotten deal currently. Cameron panicking over English Question Hague coming up with solution in committee in few weeks not suitable.
Barnett is an incredibly easy attack. Regardless of what parties argue as Socrates states the simple figures are:-
England: £8,529 Scotland: £10,512
vote UKIP and we will change that. The 3 parties have royally screwed up there...
EV4EL wont happen. Labour will not tolerate it, or if it is somehow pushed through will not cooperate with it nor adhere to it if they win next year. Constitutional arrangement need consensus.
Good morning all and now that Highland has declared for NO, I can confirm my relief at being proved wrong.
Some lessons: 1) I would never have thought that if Glasgow and North Lanarkshire voted YES, the rest of Scotland would so decisively outweigh them. 2) Gordon Brown's intervention failed to deliver. The 2 largest and safest Scottish Labour bastions voted YES 3) Alistair Darling, Jim Murphy and Ruth Davidson played a blinder 4) Interesting prospects for the GE next year. The areas dominated by the SNP where the Tories came second decisively voted NO. Moray, Angus, Perth and Kinross 5) The South of Scotland really is a Coalition bastion. How will the dynamic play out in the Tory v LibDem battlegrounds in Scotland 6) Edinburgh overwhelmingly NO. Who is that good for next year? 7) Will Alistair Darling and Gordon Brown now announce their retirement from Westminster next year 8) Will David Cameron's pledge of English votes for English decisions have an effect on the Tory v UKIP battlegrounds?
I hope you all made shedloads of money. Shadsy will be a happy chappy.
Well, given the coverage it seems like most Scots wanted to go in their hearts, but enough of them were feart in practice and want the rest of us Brits to provide them economic security. Well, fine, but if there's no shared nationhood any more it has to be the end of Scotland's most favoured nation status in the union. No more one-way devolution of powers. No more subsidy from the South East. Every MP for an English seat must be reminded this when they are considering following up on on the Cameron-Miliband-Clegg reward for Scottish disloyalty. Otherwise these numbers should be a bar chart on every UKIP leaflet at the next election:
England: £8,529 Scotland: £10,512
If people feel there should be more money for access to GP appointments and prescriptions, that's the first place where it can be found.
As your first sentence is pure supposition and your second contradicts the referendum result, should we bother to read the rest?
Very good speech by Cameron this morning. Set exactly the right tone and also said all the right things. Hopefully he will be able to get this stuff through and will not end up being frustrated by the other parties.
Personally I am disappointed with the result but that is relatively easy for me as I was not directly affected, nor could I vote. Philosophically and emotionally I would have liked to see an Independent Scotland but that was not the will of the people who really mattered.
Going forward I see no practical issues with the EVEL proposals and would hope to see them enacted as soon as possible. I am not personally in favour of a separate English Parliament as I believe it is unnecessary. A simple law banning MPs sitting for Scottish seats from voting on any devolved issues would be sufficient. We could simplify it even more by devolving more powers to Scotland and tidying up some of the idiocies we were discussing last week such as University education being devolved but not University research.
Aberdeen seemed subdued this morning but I suspect that is because anyone who cared about the result was up watching and is now getting some sleep.
So you are happy that a Scottish Chancellor like Brown or a Scottish Chief Secretary like Alexander would decide the specific budget priorities for devolved English areas. As these are decided as part of the Budget they will be voted on by the UK Parliament not an English subset and be controlled by the UK Party whips
Yes. For better or worse we remain a United Kingdom and I believe that involves some element of compromise. I certainly don't believe that a separate English Parliament - yet another tier of Government - is necessary nor desirable so I whatever solution we have I would want it to remain within the current Parliamentary structure. And that includes a non elected revising upper chamber. The one change I would make there would be to have every vote there free with whips banned.
Some element of compromise? Capitulation to another cynical Westminster fix. You'll be voting Tory next.....
Very good speech by Cameron this morning. Set exactly the right tone and also said all the right things. Hopefully he will be able to get this stuff through and will not end up being frustrated by the other parties.
Personally I am disappointed with the result but that is relatively easy for me as I was not directly affected, nor could I vote. Philosophically and emotionally I would have liked to see an Independent Scotland but that was not the will of the people who really mattered.
Going forward I see no practical issues with the EVEL proposals and would hope to see them enacted as soon as possible. I am not personally in favour of a separate English Parliament as I believe it is unnecessary. A simple law banning MPs sitting for Scottish seats from voting on any devolved issues would be sufficient. We could simplify it even more by devolving more powers to Scotland and tidying up some of the idiocies we were discussing last week such as University education being devolved but not University research.
Aberdeen seemed subdued this morning but I suspect that is because anyone who cared about the result was up watching and is now getting some sleep.
I'm still up..! Took the day off work. I'll maybe sleep well tonight though.
I did think Cameron's speech was spot on, but I did laugh at one moment:
It all went a bit like:
The Scottish are so valued, we love you, let's give you those powers your promised, eh?
The English, you've been ignored for too long, it's time to finally see EVFEL.
The Welsh should get lots of cool stuff too like England and Scotland
The Northern Irish... Er... Yeah we like you too
Stormont has been at loggerheads for months now with nothing occurring as big decisions simply aren't made. I believe the comment is a dig at both sides to just offer the other side some concessions and move on....
EV4EL wont happen. Labour will not tolerate it, or if it is somehow pushed through will not cooperate with it nor adhere to it if they win next year. Constitutional arrangement need consensus.
They quite simply cannot reject it now, IMHO. Or if they do, they'll have to come up with some good proposals of their own.
We've crossed the point of no return on England now. If EVFEL is not a consensus, then Labour risk going into the election to preserve the inequality... And I don't think that will play well for them one bit.
Well, given the coverage it seems like most Scots wanted to go in their hearts, but enough of them were feart in practice and want the rest of us Brits to provide them economic security. Well, fine, but if there's no shared nationhood any more it has to be the end of Scotland's most favoured nation status in the union. No more one-way devolution of powers. No more subsidy from the South East. Every MP for an English seat must be reminded this when they are considering following up on on the Cameron-Miliband-Clegg reward for Scottish disloyalty. Otherwise these numbers should be a bar chart on every UKIP leaflet at the next election:
England: £8,529 Scotland: £10,512
If people feel there should be more money for access to GP appointments and prescriptions, that's the first place where it can be found.
As your first sentence is pure supposition and your second contradicts the referendum result, should we bother to read the rest?
I've decided that pretty much sums up most of Socrates's posts.
Mr. Twelve, to be fair, Northern Ireland is a different bag of monkeys for historical reasons.
Cameron may not mind if Labour dick about to try and deny the English any fairness whatsoever. It'd allow him to go into the election promising at least some self-governance, whereas Miliband et al. would be against it. I imagine Labour and the Lib Dems may very well collaborate on their plans to carve England into petty little political fiefdoms as an 'alternative'.
Mr. Easterross, not a Scot (as is known), but I would've thought one of the most interesting things of the campaign was that Miliband is electoral kryptonite north of the border. Even less popular than Cameron. Labour could well lose seats in 2015, which I would guess would mostly benefit the SNP.
EV4EL wont happen. Labour will not tolerate it, or if it is somehow pushed through will not cooperate with it nor adhere to it if they win next year. Constitutional arrangement need consensus.
Political parties need the backing of the electorate. Pissing off 85% of it for self serving undemocratic reasons is not smart. Let Labour try!
Farage on ITV goes after Barnett. EVfEL is a 'first step'. Needs English Parliament and needs constitutional convention England rotten deal currently. Cameron panicking over English Question Hague coming up with solution in committee in few weeks not suitable.
Barnett is an incredibly easy attack. Regardless of what parties argue as Socrates states the simple figures are:-
England: £8,529 Scotland: £10,512
vote UKIP and we will change that. The 3 parties have royally screwed up there...
Isn't that due to relative wealth etc? Can't you produce the same figures for different regions of England without Barnett?
I'm left wing and want an English parliament! First and foremost we are a democracy, I might not always agree with the results of elections but its the will of the people. We currently have the silly situation where the UK has devolved some powers to some nations and not others. The principle of the nations choosing their own path on certain issues is now laid in stone, so we need (finally) to lay down the constitutional framework to support that.
If large numbers of legal and budgetary issues have been devolved from the UK Parliament to national parliaments then we need to do two things. 1. Create an English parliament, and 2. Reduce the UK parliament in size. If as the Tories suggest we just have the UK dictate what England gets then you need to abolish the other parliaments as that principle works just as well everywhere.
This is beyond party politics. I'm a Labour activist and I'm calling for an English parliament that will have a substantial Tory representation if that's the will of the people. But we do need a settlement and a constitutional arrangement that's fit for the future. EV4EL is fine as a principle but ridiculous in execution within a UK parliament.
Sums up my views too. I'm basically a left liberal, but recognise we need a new constitutional settlement that works for England, if not the English regions.
Re the EV4EL developments, perhaps one of the most important interviews overnight was Ming Campbell saying he supported it and that Scot MPs shouldnt have any say on such matters, Jim Murphy a lot more reticent and pointed to problems with London MPs...
Comments
(UK Rule) UK Government tempered by UK Parliament and appointed UK House of Lords voted for by UK electorate
(Scottish Rule) Scottish Government tempered by Scottish Parliament voted for by Scottish electorate
(Welsh Rule) Welsh Government tempered by Welsh Assembly voted for by Welsh electorate
(English Rule) UK Government tempered by English MPs and appointed UK House Of Lords voted for by UK Electorate.
English rule for the English!
Dave says a Cabinet Committee is going to draw it up.
Same timetable as for Scotland.
This puts Dave in the driving seat.
Or, let's have a smaller Westminster, and have English laws made in an English parliament. As a democrat I'm sure that England will vote to do things differently to elsewhere. But doing that wityjin the existing Westminster system will be chaos.
I think when the annals are written Cameron will go down as one of the great Prime Minister's. So, he lacks the chutzpah of Thatcher, but this isn't the time to be divisive.
Brilliant PM. Just hope the country realises it in time.
p.s. oh and Mike dooooo please put a sock in your anti-Tory bias just for once.
"Stuart_Dickson Posts: 3,391 7:28PM
Eh_ehm_a_eh said:
» show previous quotes
Possibly, as i saw my first No Thanks poster in a Window in Dundee today.
The clueless wonders around here are in for a shock."
2) The AV campaign was won. If Cameron won it and managed to keep Clegg and the Lib Dems on side, then it is even more impressive.
3) The Conservatives have over 400,000 Scottish voters. I would reckon the Conservatives delivered the vast majority of those to No. It was Labour who had the problem delivering their supporters.
As usual, the 'Cameron is useless' cries fall at first contact with reality. I don't want to sound like Richard Navabi, but it's hard not to when the arguments used against Cameron are so weak.
If I were him I'd invite the Scottish people to approve the Devomax offering from Westminster by referendum! (see Cameron try to argue against that).....
(I'd be fine with 'Jerusalem' - as overwhelmingly supported in the last poll I saw on this)
Cameron will then say can't proceed on Scotland without doing England at the same time.
Nothing will happen before the GE so it will become a GE issue.
But it will put Cameron on the front foot and Miliband on the back foot.
Labour won't accept EVFEL because if they win a small majority, when they come to pass legislation affecting England or have HOC votes on English issues, they will face being voted against purely for political reasons. The Tories if they could would try to derail a Labour government using any EVFEL convention drawn up.
"@TimMontgomerie: Don't much like the complicated, bureaucratic English votes for English laws; English Parliament much cleaner, more potent way forward."
"@TimMontgomerie: Disappointing Hague's already ruled out English parliament. Opportunity for UKIP to abolish Barnett and give England same status as Scotland"
For some Conservatives, their highly contentious conception of Best is the enemy of their party's interest of Good.
It's so easy to hail a figure from the past like Thatcher, conveniently forgetting just how divisive she was. And this isn't 1979: it simply is not the time to be putting the sword to outdated ways in the manner that was necessary back then.
This English votes for English matters is an absolute blinder, and putting Hague, who is widely respected across the House, in charge is so smart.
Cameron has played a masterstroke. Great PM. The right-wing press will show big support this weekend. Watch for a bounce. Eventually, and doubtless begrudgingly, he might even get a nod from Mike Smithson. Well, you never know.
Even more mischievously you could have a situation where a bill is passed by the Commons on an "English only" basis, only to be amended in the House of Lords turning it into a UK bill. Would give a new meaning to the term "wrecking amendment"!
This is logical to me. FPTP is a silly system that does not suit the UK when it has more than two strong parties. We could end up in 2015, with a Labour government after them winning just 35% of the vote. They might not agree to EVFEL and will implement English law, even though they did not have most English MP's or win the largest share of the English votes.
Also EVFEL is enough for now. A full English PArliament is obviously better but much more complex and problematical to deliver. But EVFEL starts a train in motion that has only 1 endpoint: A Parliament. Just as Devolution could only lead ultimately to Devomax or Independence so EVFEL can only ever lead ultimately to a full EP in time. It's job done.
Cameron has not so much played a blinder, as started to realise that a government is for the people, not for profit.
How long this lasts is a moot point.
In England but not run by England
In early Asian trade, sterling jumped 0.43% to 1.2743 euros.
The pound also jumped nearly 0.8% to $1.6525 against the US dollar, before falling back slightly. The FTSE is also expected to open higher.'
Cameron is flawed: IMO he is too hands-off and, if anything, does not lead the media enough. Some may see that as a welcome relief after the New Labour years; it's disastrous for a political leader. I get the impression he does not care what people think about him, which is both a necessary thing and a danger. The allegation that he just follows polling is demonstrably wrong; in fact he should appear/pretend to do so more often.
He's made some serious mis-steps and could have achieved more in this parliamentary term, despite the coalition. He could have spiked UKIP early on (although UKIP supporters may not have liked the end results of an early referendum, and it is unclear what he could do to satisfy some UKIP supporters aside from immediate seppuku). He should have gone harder on Labour and shown them to be the nasty party they really are. And he had a moral reason to do so after McBride. Instead he let Labour turn phone-hacking from a Labour issue into a Conservative one.
But in general, I think he's been good. And with respect to the economy and unemployment, despite the woes elsewhere in Europe and the world, he's been stellar.
Current total UK Parliament and House of Lords 650+828=1478
Proposed Total English Parliament +Federal Parliament 530+300 = 830. Net Saving 648
More democracy, likely lesser costs and fewer politicians in Westminster. Job done
If large numbers of legal and budgetary issues have been devolved from the UK Parliament to national parliaments then we need to do two things. 1. Create an English parliament, and 2. Reduce the UK parliament in size. If as the Tories suggest we just have the UK dictate what England gets then you need to abolish the other parliaments as that principle works just as well everywhere.
This is beyond party politics. I'm a Labour activist and I'm calling for an English parliament that will have a substantial Tory representation if that's the will of the people. But we do need a settlement and a constitutional arrangement that's fit for the future. EV4EL is fine as a principle but ridiculous in execution within a UK parliament.
It need not be an extra layer, It needs to work , but efficiently.
Machia thingumy I believe?
Give them freedom over what taxation they can raise and they are in direct conflict with Westminster and the taxes that it needs. Not to mention unhelpful tax competition between constituent units of the UK.
I had
Yes 44.85 No 55.15 turnout 86.32%
after 31/32 declarations its
Votes
%
NO
1,914,187 =55.42
YES
1,539,920 =44.58
TARGET TO WIN
1,810,042 N/A
After 31 of 32 counts
Turnout
84.48%
Rejected ballots
3,261
We need a constitutional revolution to create a system fit for purpose. EV4EL in Westminster is a clever bit of politics but is no solution to a mess that has been around for a while.
It is a ususeful butress against govt lunacy when politicans are forced to be carefull with the taxpayers money.
IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise …
Cameron is in a different mould to most PM's we've had of recent years. I'm not sure to whom to compare him. He's much too shrewd to be likened to Eden. That he has held together the coalition whilst seeing a resurgent UK economy is quite some feat. If he doesn't win outright next year we need our collective heads seeing to. Unfortunately, there are still some rancorous malcontents on the right who lost theirs a while back. Appeasing them whilst winning the centre ground, where all general elections are won or lost, is one of Cameron's trickier tasks. But the boy is doing well. Very well.
Roll on clacton.... send Carswell off to stay with that nice Scottish UKIP MEP who was all over the BBC and ITV coverage.....
* A "Yes" share of 42.25% would result in a nationwide margin of victory for "No" of 400,000
* A "Yes" share of 48.30% would result in the national "No" total being 2,000,000
Wow, how very exciting this all is. The ball is in Labours court now - from what I've seen so far there's a bit of awkward squirming.
PS Didn't they kick it inot the long grass because of the Coalition?
Of course with so few recent prime ministers there may well not be a good fit.
And a pretty damn good result. OK I think I lost a fiver or so overall on the result on the night but Cameron will remain in place, and so will Ed and the Scottish seats will still be there at the next GE - all of which are important elements to my General Election Betting Portfolio.
@Bond_James_Bond If you can give £13 to one of Cancer Research, Cats Protection League or this website then that will settle our 43%+/- bet up.
@TheUnionDivvie Well at least Yes can take some crumbs of comfort in that the result was NOT the 40-60 that JackW and a few others were predicting, though I was confident of a No victory - have to admit those last few polls did get me worried I'd pay up on our bet.
@Shadsy Well done too !
His problem is it seems to take real pressure to really bring the best out of him.
I would just like to take a moment to say a big thank you to Alex Salmond for working tirelessly to devolve more powers to the English. Thanks!
Personally I am disappointed with the result but that is relatively easy for me as I was not directly affected, nor could I vote. Philosophically and emotionally I would have liked to see an Independent Scotland but that was not the will of the people who really mattered.
Going forward I see no practical issues with the EVEL proposals and would hope to see them enacted as soon as possible. I am not personally in favour of a separate English Parliament as I believe it is unnecessary. A simple law banning MPs sitting for Scottish seats from voting on any devolved issues would be sufficient. We could simplify it even more by devolving more powers to Scotland and tidying up some of the idiocies we were discussing last week such as University education being devolved but not University research.
Aberdeen seemed subdued this morning but I suspect that is because anyone who cared about the result was up watching and is now getting some sleep.
Making it a comprehensive win for no.
Woke up just in time to hear Cameron's response. I still want an English Parliament, but English votes for English laws is a move in the right direction (although I want it to be watertight so, as mentioned below, a perfidious Labour Government would not simply add a Scottish clause to 'make' a bill UK-wide).
Edited extra bit: practice in Singapore is at 11am and 2.30pm today.
English votes over devolved areas is meaningless without English Government.
England: £8,529
Scotland: £10,512
If people feel there should be more money for access to GP appointments and prescriptions, that's the first place where it can be found.
It looks like the turnips, jessies, pansies, fannies, cretins, morons prevailed after all.
Scotland, what have you unleashed?
Given the size of the win, I think there's grounds to scrap devolution. The people of Scotland clearly feel that they want to be part of the Union. EVEL could get very messy and I think it would be better if the devolved bodies were scrapped and we went back to a level playing field in Westminster.
We need fewer politicians, not more.
That would spike the Tory belief they have a majority in England. They don't.
It all went a bit like:
The Scottish are so valued, we love you, let's give you those powers your promised, eh?
The English, you've been ignored for too long, it's time to finally see EVFEL.
The Welsh should get lots of cool stuff too like England and Scotland
The Northern Irish... Er... Yeah we like you too
Great news that William Hague will be steering it, and I'm sure he will have already given it a lot of thought and been working with civil servants on detailing, all of which will be revealed in due course. Hague will be brilliant in this role.
From a party political point of view there is some pressure now on Miliband, and Clegg. Miliband has shown himself to be a thoroughly unscrupulous and nasty piece of work so we shall see how he goes about trying to scupper this for his own ends, rather than those of the English (and Scots, Welsh and northern Irish).
England: £8,529
Scotland: £10,512
vote UKIP and we will change that. The 3 parties have royally screwed up there...
West Lothian...
And so the caravan moves on to English votes etc. Popcorn shares keep rising
Some lessons:
1) I would never have thought that if Glasgow and North Lanarkshire voted YES, the rest of Scotland would so decisively outweigh them.
2) Gordon Brown's intervention failed to deliver. The 2 largest and safest Scottish Labour bastions voted YES
3) Alistair Darling, Jim Murphy and Ruth Davidson played a blinder
4) Interesting prospects for the GE next year. The areas dominated by the SNP where the Tories came second decisively voted NO. Moray, Angus, Perth and Kinross
5) The South of Scotland really is a Coalition bastion. How will the dynamic play out in the Tory v LibDem battlegrounds in Scotland
6) Edinburgh overwhelmingly NO. Who is that good for next year?
7) Will Alistair Darling and Gordon Brown now announce their retirement from Westminster next year
8) Will David Cameron's pledge of English votes for English decisions have an effect on the Tory v UKIP battlegrounds?
I hope you all made shedloads of money. Shadsy will be a happy chappy.
So 55.3% to 44.7% then I believe. 10.6 point gap is a comfortable and decisive margin. It was not that close really.
We've crossed the point of no return on England now. If EVFEL is not a consensus, then Labour risk going into the election to preserve the inequality... And I don't think that will play well for them one bit.
Cameron may not mind if Labour dick about to try and deny the English any fairness whatsoever. It'd allow him to go into the election promising at least some self-governance, whereas Miliband et al. would be against it. I imagine Labour and the Lib Dems may very well collaborate on their plans to carve England into petty little political fiefdoms as an 'alternative'.
Mr. Easterross, not a Scot (as is known), but I would've thought one of the most interesting things of the campaign was that Miliband is electoral kryptonite north of the border. Even less popular than Cameron. Labour could well lose seats in 2015, which I would guess would mostly benefit the SNP.