If I was Yes (I want a No) I'd call the bluff of the discredited financial services industry.
However, another massive own goal - alongside the currency issue - by Salmond to place his economic eggs in the basket of the very industry that crashed the global economy.
To be honest I'd be quite annoyed if the rUK owned the vast majority of RBS yet it was largely supporting jobs in a foreign country.
The majority of RBS Groups jobs are in England?
No but the liabilities are, as are the taxpayers who funded them.
No the majority of RBS jobs are in England, you missed the point
TSE - what time are we expecting the YouGov Indy poll today?
If the Times follow their normal schedule of updating their website, anytime from 8.30pm on wards. I suspect, we'll get a tweet about it around 10pm at the latest.
This comment in The Times has struck a chord with a lot of readers
Anthony Warren 4 hours ago
As a Canadian I can say, welcome to the club. The UK is in for endless pandering to Scotland to keep it in the Union. This has been Quebec's strategy for the last 75 or more years.
Separatism is pretty much dead in Canada now as we pay so much Danegeld to Quebec to stay in Canada that even crazy Frenchmen can do the math.
I think if the Scots want to go the UK would be better off to push them off the curb than to spend the endless dosh that the Scots will demand to stay within the Union. If they vote to stay in, that should be the absolute end of it and all negotiation for more independence by the Scots. After that they can saddle up and go to war with England. That has worked out so well for Scotland over their entire history that they should by now learn that being in the UK beats the hell out of their alternatives.
Remind me, why does the UK want Scotland in the union, exactly?
The UK should be pushing Scotland towards leaving while the going is good. It feels like Westminster's appeasement of nationalists has started the steady march towards full fiscal autonomy for Scotland, something which is hugely advantageous for Scotland but has numerous downsides and very little upside for the UK. Being a country should mean more than acting as a central bank and lender of last resort for a quasi-independent small nation with an oversized banking sector.
there is a view among some in England that Scotland gets a cushy deal.
The lack of vision and weakness of our political class is embarrassing.
No shit Sherlock. They are potentially storing up an explosive English reaction. Fine to give Scotland deep deep powers, incl tax. But give the same to England. A constitutional convention leading to a FUK is the only way we can avoid never ending grief now.
I assume you just looked at headline as usual, if you actually read it so far it is brass plates only. Arse lickers chasing gongs, you on the list yet or do you polish yours as you decry Scotland.
Have you spoken to the people responsible for their Yes vote contingency plans....
YES
So the CEO of Standard Life is lying to his board, shareholders, stock exchange and the media?
Get a life , he said he would open an English company , no mention of anything else. Who gives a toss what that crawling arse says, he is in Cameron's pocket, arse sucker looking for gongs. They are a shit company in any case.
The Vicar of Bath doesn't get a vote does he.....bit like Alan Cumming & Sean Connery.
....LOL....
Still, he is actually influencing votes, I think 400k downloads of The Wee Blue Book so far with another 250k hard copies distributed, 600k unique visitors in August alone.
And he doesn't get bumped off the Westminster Hour 'cos something more interesting turned up.
This comment in The Times has struck a chord with a lot of readers
Anthony Warren 4 hours ago
As a Canadian I can say, welcome to the club. The UK is in for endless pandering to Scotland to keep it in the Union. This has been Quebec's strategy for the last 75 or more years.
Separatism is pretty much dead in Canada now as we pay so much Danegeld to Quebec to stay in Canada that even crazy Frenchmen can do the math.
I think if the Scots want to go the UK would be better off to push them off the curb than to spend the endless dosh that the Scots will demand to stay within the Union. If they vote to stay in, that should be the absolute end of it and all negotiation for more independence by the Scots. After that they can saddle up and go to war with England. That has worked out so well for Scotland over their entire history that they should by now learn that being in the UK beats the hell out of their alternatives.
Remind me, why does the UK want Scotland in the union, exactly?
The UK should be pushing Scotland towards leaving while the going is good. It feels like Westminster's appeasement of nationalists has started the steady march towards full fiscal autonomy for Scotland, something which is hugely advantageous for Scotland but has numerous downsides and very little upside for the UK. Being a country should mean more than acting as a central bank and lender of last resort for a quasi-independent small nation with an oversized banking sector.
there is a view among some in England that Scotland gets a cushy deal.
The lack of vision and weakness of our political class is embarrassing.
No shit Sherlock. They are potentially storing up an explosive English reaction. Fine to give Scotland deep deep powers, incl tax. But give the same to England. A constitutional convention leading to a FUK is the only way we can avoid never ending grief now.
I believe Cameron has now lost the next election . This last minute begging will be a disaster for the Conservatives .
The Vicar of Bath doesn't get a vote does he.....bit like Alan Cumming & Sean Connery.
....LOL....
Still, he is actually influencing votes, I think 400k downloads of The Wee Blue Book so far with another 250k hard copies distributed, 600k unique visitors in August alone.
And he doesn't get bumped off the Westminster Hour 'cos something more interesting turned up.
Why does he live in Bath if he's so passionate about Scotland?
I actually think that whereas constitutional reform has always languished down the bottom of the list of voter concerns, that is no longer the case now. 5m Scots have been electrified by the current debate, and England seems to have woken from its slumbers.
If it's a No, we're headed for a federal UK, I think there's no doubt about it, because that's the only logical destination on the current direction of travel (that all 3 parties are now signed up to, and which the Nats in Scotland and Wales ultimately wanted all along anyway).
Quite how that is going to work though with the possibility of a UK-wide administration setting overall policies which are at odds with whatever force emerges in England-alone, I don't know!
I assume you just looked at headline as usual, if you actually read it so far it is brass plates only. Arse lickers chasing gongs, you on the list yet or do you polish yours as you decry Scotland.
Have you spoken to the people responsible for their Yes vote contingency plans to confirm its a plate moving exercise.....
I very much doubt it is. With a Yes vote the Scottish accent is about to become toxic to many within rUK It won't be the reassuring accent banks like to use. I can see some of the least expected items moving South of the border fairly quickly..
No it's a lousy point because neither of you have the slightest shred of evidence that the Scots accent will be "toxic" post independence. Is the Irish accent toxic? Like much of the drivel we read, your points are based not on empirical evidence but on your own views.
Royal Bank of Scotland and Lloyds Banking Group will move their operations south of the border if Scotland votes for independence next week, it emerged on Wednesday night.
No one trumpeting BUPA coming out for No? Such a successful private health company must be a boon for them surely?
so many businesses coming out for No that we haven't had time to get round to BUPA.
Personally I was amazed to find BUPA operated in Scotland why would anyone need private health insurance in the first place since Salmond's told us how perfect he's made the NHS. ?
Alan, you are almost down to Scott's level now, sad that one of the few sensible poster's has caught the contagion.
What the hell has common sense got to do with anything in the Indyref ?
I said about a forthinght back that all the arguments had been settled about 6 months ago. The Nats have lost all the economic arguments why they still trying to pretend they have something to say is just beyond me. The Nats have won the touchy feely Disney arguments and the Unionisits have nothing much to counter it with.
So we should have had a vote 6 months ago.
All there is for observers such as myself is the crack of watching posters making tits of the themselves - SD hit the titting point 2 nights ago - the general merriment of politicans tying themselves in knots and the pathos of watching a country tear itself apart.
Trolling idiots seems the right response to that as far as I'm concerned.
I wonder if the John Lewis pronouncements will have more weight than all the various FS institutions and the three wise monkeys heading up to Scotland.
John Lewis - an employee owned company with a model structure for a centre-leftish sort of voter that is ostensibly the Scottish majority vote. Could John Lewis save the union ?
This comment in The Times has struck a chord with a lot of readers
Anthony Warren 4 hours ago
As a Canadian I can say, welcome to the club. The UK is in for endless pandering to Scotland to keep it in the Union. This has been Quebec's strategy for the last 75 or more years.
Separatism is pretty much dead in Canada now as we pay so much Danegeld to Quebec to stay in Canada that even crazy Frenchmen can do the math.
I think if the Scots want to go the UK would be better off to push them off the curb than to spend the endless dosh that the Scots will demand to stay within the Union. If they vote to stay in, that should be the absolute end of it and all negotiation for more independence by the Scots. After that they can saddle up and go to war with England. That has worked out so well for Scotland over their entire history that they should by now learn that being in the UK beats the hell out of their alternatives.
Remind me, why does the UK want Scotland in the union, exactly?
The UK should be pushing Scotland towards leaving while the going is good. It feels like Westminster's appeasement of nationalists has started the steady march towards full fiscal autonomy for Scotland, something which is hugely advantageous for Scotland but has numerous downsides and very little upside for the UK. Being a country should mean more than acting as a central bank and lender of last resort for a quasi-independent small nation with an oversized banking sector.
there is a view among some in England that Scotland gets a cushy deal.
The lack of vision and weakness of our political class is embarrassing.
No shit Sherlock. They are potentially storing up an explosive English reaction. Fine to give Scotland deep deep powers, incl tax. But give the same to England. A constitutional convention leading to a FUK is the only way we can avoid never ending grief now.
I believe Cameron has now lost the next election . This last minute begging will be a disaster for the Conservatives .
I think if, after a month of reflection, Dave comes out for a FUK and a full and proper nod to England he'll win by a landslide.
@bbcnickrobinson: Big day for @AlexSalmond. Must counter warnings re banks moving south, shop prices rising & uncertainty re £. Not new Qs but new urgency
.On IndyRef, I fear that the relocation threat of RBS, Lloyds, Standard Life etc will make only a marginal difference. RBS is apparently writing to staff today to say the move is technical only and wont affect their jobs. .
Until it does. Of course RBS are not going to tell their employees their jobs are moving in a Press Release...but over time, hiring freezes, retirees not being replaced...the jobs will leech south
Best comment on Prescott was Duncan Letts about causing several diplomatic incidents in Glasgow, a cross between Les Dawson and Sir Les Patterson.....
I assume you just looked at headline as usual, if you actually read it so far it is brass plates only. Arse lickers chasing gongs, you on the list yet or do you polish yours as you decry Scotland.
Have you spoken to the people responsible for their Yes vote contingency plans....
YES
So the CEO of Standard Life is lying to his board, shareholders, stock exchange and the media?
Get a life , he said he would open an English company , no mention of anything else. Who gives a toss what that crawling arse says, he is in Cameron's pocket, arse sucker looking for gongs. They are a shit company in any case.
The Vicar of Bath doesn't get a vote does he.....bit like Alan Cumming & Sean Connery.
....LOL....
Still, he is actually influencing votes, I think 400k downloads of The Wee Blue Book so far with another 250k hard copies distributed, 600k unique visitors in August alone.
And he doesn't get bumped off the Westminster Hour 'cos something more interesting turned up.
Yes, but he is mad.
Mad? He's f**king livid.
I'll keep an eye out for him next weekend then as I take Brooke Junior to Uni.
memo : look for a man in vicar's collar and a jimmy hat ranting about how much he loves his homeland as he settles down to muffins and afternoon tea.
Bingley in West Yorkshire lost the HQ building for Bradford and Bingley bank in 2008 during the banking crisis, it is now a sainsbury`s many lost their jobs
So without a currency union a few HQ`s will move, especially to be risk averse against another crisis. However there will be a deal,if there is a yes vote, whatever they say, to avoid another crisis.
Err no. The financial sector is about more than banking. There is a huge pension industry in Scotland which has about 90+% of its business on the other side of the border, given pensions are such a minefield of legislation I really can't see this staying where it is so the office jobs go too.
This is what I was pointing out last night in microcosm. Our company pension funds and actuarial services are both based in Edinburgh and we will have to pull the plug and move them (unless they are moved for us as Std Life is of course saying it will) as we simply cannot have such complex legal and regulatory set ups based in a foreign country. End of. No debate. An Irish actuary with the world's greatest track record and exemplary qualifications could offer their services to us for next to nothing and we would still say no if they were based in Dublin, precisely because we need the reassurance of being in the same ongoing legal framework as the pensions will be paid in. It's not "scaremongering", it's not "bullying", it's the truth and ordinary people's future's rely on it.
Few doubt that if the Yes supporters are defeated in a week's time, it won't be that long, perhaps only five years, before they come banging on the independence door again. I can't help but feel that having been forced to investigate the practicalities as well as the economics of undertaking a great migration into England, the likes of Lloyds Bank, RBS, Standard Life and a good few other financial institutions will be determined not to to get caught short again. Whilst they are unlikely to up sticks and move south anyway, it seems probable that when the opportunity of expansion arises, future investment is likely to be concentrated in London rather than Edinburgh. To that extent quite considerable damage to the Scottish financial services industry may have already occurred.
The responses of MalcolmMg pretty much typify the SNP campaign. Attack the messenger, ignore the facts and tell everyone to look to the long term. This is a campaign that has split the country and reasoned argument has left the door.
The SNP does not have the support of the wealth generators who would pay the bill. This does not set the scene for a successful transition to a new country. At my company we have already decided we would create a new English company if there is a Yes vote and some of our key staff have volunteered to move to England. This may not cause headlines on its own but if it is repeated in hundreds of other technical companies across Scotland the brain drain will be significant.
One area where there will certainly be an issue is the university system which relies heavily on English students to fund it. If they get removed from the UCAS the drop in applications will be massive. I know many professors who are already looking out new jobs.
It seems that the shift has moved against the SNP in the last few days. I don't expect many SNP supporters to switch back but I doubt they will get many new voters. It is now about No getting its vote out.
I assume you just looked at headline as usual, if you actually read it so far it is brass plates only. Arse lickers chasing gongs, you on the list yet or do you polish yours as you decry Scotland.
Have you spoken to the people responsible for their Yes vote contingency plans to confirm its a plate moving exercise.....
I very much doubt it is. With a Yes vote the Scottish accent is about to become toxic to many within rUK It won't be the reassuring accent banks like to use. I can see some of the least expected items moving South of the border fairly quickly..
No it's a lousy point because neither of you have the slightest shred of evidence that the Scots accent will be "toxic" post independence. Is the Irish accent toxic? Like much of the drivel we read, your points are based not on empirical evidence but on your own views.
I often find if I talk in a thick Ulster accent about god-fearing religion people give me a strange look, even without the balaclava. Scots giving financial advice will shortly join me in the same category.
@BBCLouise: Interesting point by @naughtiej that SNP estimate of cost of separation at £200,000 would be almost a 1/4 of cost of Edins 6 miles of trams
This comment in The Times has struck a chord with a lot of readers
Anthony Warren 4 hours ago
As a Canadian I can say, welcome to the club. The UK is in for endless pandering to Scotland to keep it in the Union. This has been Quebec's strategy for the last 75 or more years.
Separatism is pretty much dead in Canada now as we pay so much Danegeld to Quebec to stay in Canada that even crazy Frenchmen can do the math.
I think if the Scots want to go the UK would be better off to push them off the curb than to spend the endless dosh that the Scots will demand to stay within the Union. If they vote to stay in, that should be the absolute end of it and all negotiation for more independence by the Scots. After that they can saddle up and go to war with England. That has worked out so well for Scotland over their entire history that they should by now learn that being in the UK beats the hell out of their alternatives.
Remind me, why does the UK want Scotland in the union, exactly?
The UK should be pushing Scotland towards leaving while the going is good. It feels like Westminster's appeasement of nationalists has started the steady march towards full fiscal autonomy for Scotland, something which is hugely advantageous for Scotland but has numerous downsides and very little upside for the UK. Being a country should mean more than acting as a central bank and lender of last resort for a quasi-independent small nation with an oversized banking sector.
there is a view among some in England that Scotland gets a cushy deal.
The lack of vision and weakness of our political class is embarrassing.
No shit Sherlock. They are potentially storing up an explosive English reaction. Fine to give Scotland deep deep powers, incl tax. But give the same to England. A constitutional convention leading to a FUK is the only way we can avoid never ending grief now.
The Vicar of Bath doesn't get a vote does he.....bit like Alan Cumming & Sean Connery.
....LOL....
Still, he is actually influencing votes, I think 400k downloads of The Wee Blue Book so far with another 250k hard copies distributed, 600k unique visitors in August alone.
And he doesn't get bumped off the Westminster Hour 'cos something more interesting turned up.
Why does he live in Bath if he's so passionate about Scotland?
Why do you live in your Italian glasshouse if you're so passionate about the Yookay?
@BBCLouise: Interesting point by @naughtiej that SNP estimate of cost of separation at £200,000 would be almost a 1/4 of cost of Edins 6 miles of trams
I wonder if we'll all be exhausted by the time of the vote.
Edited extra bit: just seen the comments from Mr. Llama and Mr. Socrates. Mr. Socrates is quite right. The Dark Ages were rubbish compared to the Roman Empire and to suggest otherwise is revisionist nonsense.
Morning all and I gather that a Labour Cllr in York has defected to the Tory Party thereby depriving Labour of its majority.
On IndyRef, I fear that the relocation threat of RBS, Lloyds, Standard Life etc will make only a marginal difference. RBS is apparently writing to staff today to say the move is technical only and wont affect their jobs.
We cannot forget that the group of undecided voters is largely ex WWC Labour voters in Central Scotland. How many of them have savings, private pensions etc? Probably not nearly enough to consider switching from YES to NO. Fatty Prescott's utterly crass comments about combining the Scottish and English football teams is far more likely to have an effect on many men in this group.
Thank goodness for a poster with his own considered view instead of regurgitated stories and malicious glee. We've heard so much about relocation already - Mr Osborne in February for instance - that it is at least partly just repetition now, in terms of its fresh impact, plus it has only reminded many people how much they hate the bankers and their chums in Labour and the Tories.
Iain Macwhirter's take isn't so very different in some ways.
This looks interesting unexpected even, given the date - thogh I can't get at it as I am maxed out and it's not in the paper version. If anyone can give me a brief summary I'd be grateful.
It's not "scaremongering", it's not "bullying", it's the truth and ordinary people's future's rely on it.
And the casual manner in which the SNP dismiss those concerns is deeply unpleasant.
Separation at ANY cost, especially jobs and tax revenue.
Exactly. Not edifying is it? Real people are going to get hurt in the crossfire and sacrificed for an ideal. If there were reality attached to the ideal and a real attempt to point out the real risks and Scotland still voted YES, then fair enough. "Independence whatever the price" is a perfectly respectable opinion to have. Sticking fingers in you ears and going "la la la I can't hear you" any time anyone has the temerity to point out are some downsides (there may be upsides too, I am quite prepared to accept) is just nuts.
I actually think that whereas constitutional reform has always languished down the bottom of the list of voter concerns, that is no longer the case now. 5m Scots have been electrified by the current debate, and England seems to have woken from its slumbers.
If it's a No, we're headed for a federal UK, I think there's no doubt about it, because that's the only logical destination on the current direction of travel (that all 3 parties are now signed up to, and which the Nats in Scotland and Wales ultimately wanted all along anyway).
Quite how that is going to work though with the possibility of a UK-wide administration setting overall policies which are at odds with whatever force emerges in England-alone, I don't know!
The only way you can have a balanced federation is to divide England into smaller units (the horror being these would probably be those stupid EU 'Regions' that group, for instance, Oxford and Dover together or Liverpool and Carlisle together for little reason other than that's where the line on the map was drawn). Whilst I can see this being OK for Greater London and potentially Yorkshire and the Humber and the North East, I'm not sure there's a strong enough regional identity to lump most into these groups. And counties are arguably too small a unit...
And aside from places like Cornwall and Yorkshire, I can't imagine there being too much enthusiasm for splitting England up into federal units. We also should remember John Prescott failed spectacularly at introducing regional assemblies, although granted time has moved on now and this was before the current Scottish developments...
We're going to see daily, probably coordinated, annoucements by every major multinational in Scotland. The build up of fear for jobs and prosperity will, in my view, be enough to push the large number of DKs the 'right way', even if there's no movement in those who have already expressed a view.
I said about a forthinght back that all the arguments had been settled about 6 months ago. The Nats have lost all the economic arguments why they still trying to pretend they have something to say is just beyond me. The Nats have won the touchy feely Disney arguments and the Unionisits have nothing much to counter it with.
Perhaps you should have a word with your PB Unionist chums who seem to be frotting themselves into a frenzy over 'warnings' rewarmed from 6 months ago. Some of them are getting on and might do themselves a mischief.
@BBCLouise: Interesting point by @naughtiej that SNP estimate of cost of separation at £200,000 would be almost a 1/4 of cost of Edins 6 miles of trams
This looks interesting unexpected even, given the date - thogh I can't get at it as I am maxed out and it's not in the paper version. If anyone can give me a brief summary I'd be grateful.
Come on Scotland, you can do better than this. Throw off those English shackles and vote Yes. Remember Cameron, Broon etc are all liars. We do not want you in the Union and we are not Better Together. Get out there and vote yourselves better weather and higher benefits next week. Please. Pretty please.
@BBCLouise: Interesting point by @naughtiej that SNP estimate of cost of separation at £200,000 would be almost a 1/4 of cost of Edins 6 miles of trams
Fatty Prescott's utterly crass comments about combining the Scottish and English football teams is far more likely to have an effect on many men in this group.
You really couldn't make it up. And anyway Gareth Bale is Welsh.
The responses of MalcolmMg pretty much typify the SNP campaign. Attack the messenger, ignore the facts and tell everyone to look to the long term. This is a campaign that has split the country and reasoned argument has left the door.
snip
One area where there will certainly be an issue is the university system which relies heavily on English students to fund it. If they get removed from the UCAS the drop in applications will be massive. I know many professors who are already looking out new jobs.
It seems that the shift has moved against the SNP in the last few days. I don't expect many SNP supporters to switch back but I doubt they will get many new voters. It is now about No getting its vote out.
@BBCLouise: Interesting point by @naughtiej that SNP estimate of cost of separation at £200,000 would be almost a 1/4 of cost of Edins 6 miles of trams
Yesterday was reality day for the people of Scotland and for Salmond.
The banks, financial services and insurance companies confirmed that they would move a major part of their operations, assets and jobs to rUK and most likely England.
The oil companies confirmed the Wood report of the declining oil availability and rising cost of extraction.
Thus having seen Salmond's economic bubble well and truly pricked, in a week's time will the Scots vote with their hearts or their heads?
Reality my arse , it just showed how nasty and vindictive the English establishment is. We will be well shot of them.
Always wondered if you had an arse, or whether you levitated on all the hot air you produce from all your orifices.
LOL, sad sack Tory halfwit tries to be witty
Sadly you make assumptions that are nearly always wrong. I have never been a member of any political party but belong to the party of logical Common Sense.
You are a fanny of the first order, full of wind and piss.
I hate to tell you this malky, but if the fannies of your experience contain wind and piss, you aren't doing it right.
Admittedly it may be an easy mistake to make in Scotland. With sheep.
Please for God's sake don't pox it all up now. We are so, so close to unloading you.
This looks interesting unexpected even, given the date - thogh I can't get at it as I am maxed out and it's not in the paper version. If anyone can give me a brief summary I'd be grateful.
I actually think that whereas constitutional reform has always languished down the bottom of the list of voter concerns, that is no longer the case now. 5m Scots have been electrified by the current debate, and England seems to have woken from its slumbers.
If it's a No, we're headed for a federal UK, I think there's no doubt about it, because that's the only logical destination on the current direction of travel (that all 3 parties are now signed up to, and which the Nats in Scotland and Wales ultimately wanted all along anyway).
Quite how that is going to work though with the possibility of a UK-wide administration setting overall policies which are at odds with whatever force emerges in England-alone, I don't know!
The only way you can have a balanced federation is to divide England into smaller units (the horror being these would probably be those stupid EU 'Regions' that group, for instance, Oxford and Dover together or Liverpool and Carlisle together for little reason other than that's where the line on the map was drawn). Whilst I can see this being OK for Greater London and potentially Yorkshire and the Humber and the North East, I'm not sure there's a strong enough regional identity to lump most into these groups. And counties are arguably too small a unit...
And aside from places like Cornwall and Yorkshire, I can't imagine there being too much enthusiasm for splitting England up into federal units. We also should remember John Prescott failed spectacularly at introducing regional assemblies, although granted time has moved on now and this was before the current Scottish developments...
Well here's the devolution problem summed up: England. It's way way bigger than any comparable unit in any federal system I can think of. Even NSW in OZ, or Ontario in Canada, do not compare relatively or California, or NRW in Germany. Hence we had the cobbled together nonsense we've had since1999, WLQ and all just swept under the carpet.
Now why should England, a polity since about 924 AD be carved up just so it "fits" with Scotland and Wales? Are all the English going to get a vote on that? I think our politicians will be terrified of letting that rather large cat out of the bag as a whole load of stuff flows from that logically.
Even if you did carve England up is the ( virtually permanently Tory with a UKIP opposition?) SE Region Parliament going to be able to vary income tax in the same way that Scotland can? And what happens when the push taxes down (as they will)? We could have tax completion between different parts of the island of Great Britain. It's Balkanisation writ small if we are not very careful.
The responses of MalcolmMg pretty much typify the SNP campaign. Attack the messenger, ignore the facts and tell everyone to look to the long term. This is a campaign that has split the country and reasoned argument has left the door.
snip
One area where there will certainly be an issue is the university system which relies heavily on English students to fund it. If they get removed from the UCAS the drop in applications will be massive. I know many professors who are already looking out new jobs.
It seems that the shift has moved against the SNP in the last few days. I don't expect many SNP supporters to switch back but I doubt they will get many new voters. It is now about No getting its vote out.
I thought we were going to be flooded by English students??
Angry Salmond @AngrySalmond 7 mins Big businesses are always scared of uncertainty. Many can't even leave their houses without bursting into tears. #VoteYes #SexySocialism
This looks interesting unexpected even, given the date - thogh I can't get at it as I am maxed out and it's not in the paper version. If anyone can give me a brief summary I'd be grateful.
Thanks. I've just tried that with the browser closed and started again. Doesn't work, even with cookies cleared for the last month.
It's probably because they are tracking your IP. Either get a new IP from your ISP (you can do this on the router), or use an anonymous browser such as Tor.
The responses of MalcolmMg pretty much typify the SNP campaign. Attack the messenger, ignore the facts and tell everyone to look to the long term. This is a campaign that has split the country and reasoned argument has left the door.
snip
One area where there will certainly be an issue is the university system which relies heavily on English students to fund it. If they get removed from the UCAS the drop in applications will be massive. I know many professors who are already looking out new jobs.
It seems that the shift has moved against the SNP in the last few days. I don't expect many SNP supporters to switch back but I doubt they will get many new voters. It is now about No getting its vote out.
I thought we were going to be flooded by English students??
That's yesterday and tomorrow. Today it's student drought.
This looks interesting unexpected even, given the date - thogh I can't get at it as I am maxed out and it's not in the paper version. If anyone can give me a brief summary I'd be grateful.
Thanks. I've just tried that with the browser closed and started again. Doesn't work, even with cookies cleared for the last month.
It's probably because they are tracking your IP. Either get a new IP from your ISP (you can do this on the router), or use an anonymous browser such as Tor.
Thanks, that is very useful to know more generally.
If the Herald has changed from cookies to IP tracking, presumably that explains the change in system behaviour - especially if so many people are looking at Scots news. I'm a bit annoyed as I pay for the paper version anyway. Maybe I ought to take out a sub and save money!
For those confident that Labour will win the most seats (although not necessarily an overall majority) at next May's General Election, now might be a good time to invest accordingly. The odds on such an eventuality have been hardening over recent weeks and in some cases are already down to 4/6 or 1.67 decimal. In fact the only major bookies still offering odds of 4/5 or 1.80 decimal are BETFRED and Stan James. No matter how often the likes of Richard Nabavi and others keep insisting that poll movements at present are "all noise" and should not be taken seriously until after the party conferences, the simple fact is that that the summer holidays are over, the kids are back at school and Autumn is just around the corner. There has been a recent distinct, discernible increase in Labour's lead from an average of around 3% to 5%, which will undoubtedly show up in UKPR's next updated figures. This in turn will result in Stephen Fisher's GE seat projection (as well as others others using a similar model) showing Labour moving into a clear lead over the Tories for the first time in many months. This in itself seems likely to lead to a shortening in Labour's odds on them winning the most seats, such that I doubt it will be possible to obtain those 4/5 odds in a week or two's time. We shall see. Please do your own research.
The responses of MalcolmMg pretty much typify the SNP campaign. Attack the messenger, ignore the facts and tell everyone to look to the long term. This is a campaign that has split the country and reasoned argument has left the door.
snip
One area where there will certainly be an issue is the university system which relies heavily on English students to fund it. If they get removed from the UCAS the drop in applications will be massive. I know many professors who are already looking out new jobs.
It seems that the shift has moved against the SNP in the last few days. I don't expect many SNP supporters to switch back but I doubt they will get many new voters. It is now about No getting its vote out.
I thought we were going to be flooded by English students??
That's yesterday and tomorrow. Today it's student drought.
Ah so it is. Evidently I haven't quite recovered from waking up, switching on and learning from OGH that it's Friday.
The responses of MalcolmMg pretty much typify the SNP campaign. Attack the messenger, ignore the facts and tell everyone to look to the long term. This is a campaign that has split the country and reasoned argument has left the door.
snip
One area where there will certainly be an issue is the university system which relies heavily on English students to fund it. If they get removed from the UCAS the drop in applications will be massive. I know many professors who are already looking out new jobs.
It seems that the shift has moved against the SNP in the last few days. I don't expect many SNP supporters to switch back but I doubt they will get many new voters. It is now about No getting its vote out.
I thought we were going to be flooded by English students??
That's yesterday and tomorrow. Today it's student drought.
Doesn't it depend on whether Scotland decides to continue to discriminate against English students or not? If you do, drought; if you don't, flood. Surely it's not that complicated?
Now why should England, a polity since about 924 AD be carved up just so it "fits" with Scotland and Wales? Are all the English going to get a vote on that? I think our politicians will be terrified of letting that rather large cat out of the bag as a whole load of stuff flows from that logically.
Even if you did carve England up is the ( virtually permanently Tory with a UKIP opposition?) SE Region Parliament going to be able to vary income tax in the same way that Scotland can? And what happens when the push taxes down (as they will)? We could have tax completion between different parts of the island of Great Britain. It's Balkanisation writ small if we are not very careful.
The solution is to take subsidiarity to its logical conclusion. Allow MPs to vote only on matters affecting their constituency.
So, if something effects the whole UK, all MPs vote, if something only affects England then only English MPs vote, ditto for Scotland, Wales and NI. The only tricky bit is deciding how to draft legislation that MPs can vote on but legislation is already regional in many respects.
If it had been done this way in the first place there would be no need for devolution. All those expensive assemblies would be unneeded.
I actually think that whereas constitutional reform has always languished down the bottom of the list of voter concerns, that is no longer the case now. 5m Scots have been electrified by the current debate, and England seems to have woken from its slumbers.
If it's a No, we're headed for a federal UK, I think there's no doubt about it, because that's the only logical destination on the current direction of travel (that all 3 parties are now signed up to, and which the Nats in Scotland and Wales ultimately wanted all along anyway).
Quite how that is going to work though with the possibility of a UK-wide administration setting overall policies which are at odds with whatever force emerges in England-alone, I don't know!
The only way you can have a balanced federation is to divide England into smaller units (the horror being these would probably be those stupid EU 'Regions' that group, for instance, Oxford and Dover together or Liverpool and Carlisle together for little reason other than that's where the line on the map was drawn). Whilst I can see this being OK for Greater London and potentially Yorkshire and the Humber and the North East, I'm not sure there's a strong enough regional identity to lump most into these groups. And counties are arguably too small a unit...
And aside from places like Cornwall and Yorkshire, I can't imagine there being too much enthusiasm for splitting England up into federal units. We also should remember John Prescott failed spectacularly at introducing regional assemblies, although granted time has moved on now and this was before the current Scottish developments...
Even if you did carve England up is the ( virtually permanently Tory with a UKIP opposition?) SE Region Parliament going to be able to vary income tax in the same way that Scotland can? And what happens when the push taxes down (as they will)? We could have tax completion between different parts of the island of Great Britain. It's Balkanisation writ small if we are not very careful.
I'm starting to wonder if now the DevoMax can of worms has been opened and people are becoming aware of the absolute nightmare that might result, it might be worth Scotland voting yes next Thursday just to save us all the headache.
Very interesting point about English students. Not something I'd considered.
I have a niece who lives in England but has (through her father) an Irish passport. She is going to a Scottish uni for free, yet my daughter's friend at the same Scottish uni has to pay.
I have never understood why this is not classed as racism.
I actually think that whereas constitutional reform has always languished down the bottom of the list of voter concerns, that is no longer the case now. 5m Scots have been electrified by the current debate, and England seems to have woken from its slumbers.
If it's a No, we're headed for a federal UK, I think there's no doubt about it, because that's the only logical destination on the current direction of travel (that all 3 parties are now signed up to, and which the Nats in Scotland and Wales ultimately wanted all along anyway).
Quite how that is going to work though with the possibility of a UK-wide administration setting overall policies which are at odds with whatever force emerges in England-alone, I don't know!
The only way you can have a balanced federation is to divide England into smaller units (the horror being these would probably be those stupid EU 'Regions' that group, for instance, Oxford and Dover together or Liverpool and Carlisle together for little reason other than that's where the line on the map was drawn). Whilst I can see this being OK for Greater London and potentially Yorkshire and the Humber and the North East, I'm not sure there's a strong enough regional identity to lump most into these groups. And counties are arguably too small a unit...
And aside from places like Cornwall and Yorkshire, I can't imagine there being too much enthusiasm for splitting England up into federal units. We also should remember John Prescott failed spectacularly at introducing regional assemblies, although granted time has moved on now and this was before the current Scottish developments...
Even if you did carve England up is the ( virtually permanently Tory with a UKIP opposition?) SE Region Parliament going to be able to vary income tax in the same way that Scotland can? And what happens when the push taxes down (as they will)? We could have tax completion between different parts of the island of Great Britain. It's Balkanisation writ small if we are not very careful.
I'm starting to wonder if now the DevoMax can of worms has been opened and people are becoming aware of the absolute nightmare that might result, it might be worth Scotland voting yes next Thursday just to save us all the headache.
Indeed..
The only party I can see thriving now on a NO vote is UKIP, as they're the only party which seemingly is at least willing to stand up for English people. The tories and labour seem to want to be bending over to accept anything.
The responses of MalcolmMg pretty much typify the SNP campaign. Attack the messenger, ignore the facts and tell everyone to look to the long term. This is a campaign that has split the country and reasoned argument has left the door.
snip
One area where there will certainly be an issue is the university system which relies heavily on English students to fund it. If they get removed from the UCAS the drop in applications will be massive. I know many professors who are already looking out new jobs.
It seems that the shift has moved against the SNP in the last few days. I don't expect many SNP supporters to switch back but I doubt they will get many new voters. It is now about No getting its vote out.
I thought we were going to be flooded by English students??
That's yesterday and tomorrow. Today it's student drought.
Doesn't it depend on whether Scotland decides to continue to discriminate against English students or not? If you do, drought; if you don't, flood. Surely it's not that complicated?
For the nth time, Scotland does not discriminate against English students. All it does is give grants to people who are resident in Scotland. Not the same thing.
Now why should England, a polity since about 924 AD be carved up just so it "fits" with Scotland and Wales? Are all the English going to get a vote on that? I think our politicians will be terrified of letting that rather large cat out of the bag as a whole load of stuff flows from that logically.
Even if you did carve England up is the ( virtually permanently Tory with a UKIP opposition?) SE Region Parliament going to be able to vary income tax in the same way that Scotland can? And what happens when the push taxes down (as they will)? We could have tax completion between different parts of the island of Great Britain. It's Balkanisation writ small if we are not very careful.
The solution is to take subsidiarity to its logical conclusion. Allow MPs to vote only on matters affecting their constituency.
So, if something effects the whole UK, all MPs vote, if something only affects England then only English MPs vote, ditto for Scotland, Wales and NI. The only tricky bit is deciding how to draft legislation that MPs can vote on but legislation is already regional in many respects.
If it had been done this way in the first place there would be no need for devolution. All those expensive assemblies would be unneeded.
Very interesting point about English students. Not something I'd considered.
I have a niece who lives in England but has (through her father) an Irish passport. She is going to a Scottish uni for free, yet my daughter's friend at the same Scottish uni has to pay.
I have never understood why this is not classed as racism.
It's a common, if understandable, error. The distinction is simply because it is based on residence, for UK nationals. Someone resident, even if Scottish born, in England gets £0 of tuition fees. Someone resident in Scotland, even if English born, in Scotland gets tuition fees. Those were always the rules for decades - the only change is that Westminster changed the thermostat to zero and the Scots did not follow suit but foun the money from elsewhere in their block allocation.
The responses of MalcolmMg pretty much typify the SNP campaign. Attack the messenger, ignore the facts and tell everyone to look to the long term. This is a campaign that has split the country and reasoned argument has left the door.
snip
One area where there will certainly be an issue is the university system which relies heavily on English students to fund it. If they get removed from the UCAS the drop in applications will be massive. I know many professors who are already looking out new jobs.
It seems that the shift has moved against the SNP in the last few days. I don't expect many SNP supporters to switch back but I doubt they will get many new voters. It is now about No getting its vote out.
I thought we were going to be flooded by English students??
That's yesterday and tomorrow. Today it's student drought.
Doesn't it depend on whether Scotland decides to continue to discriminate against English students or not? If you do, drought; if you don't, flood. Surely it's not that complicated?
For the nth time, Scotland does not discriminate against English students. All it does is give grants to people who are resident in Scotland. Not the same thing.
If that is the case why do the grants go to absolutely everyone from the EU who is not English (or from Northern Ireland)..
I've been speaking with someone (Scot living in London) on another forum, unrelated to politics, who told me he has withdrawn all his money and investments from Scottish banks and institutions because he couldn't get sensible answers to a series of "what if" questions he'd been asking them for some time.
This guy is a big cheese in pharmaceuticals so we're talking quite a lot of money here I would think...
We're going to see daily, probably coordinated, annoucements by every major multinational in Scotland. The build up of fear for jobs and prosperity will, in my view, be enough to push the large number of DKs the 'right way', even if there's no movement in those who have already expressed a view.
If we get a NO next week, I wonder if we will be saying "It wuz the banks wot won it". Given Murdoch's recent indy-supportive tweets, t I wonder what headline The Sun will use?
TBH, there are so many things wrong with Devolution that it's amazing that the English have been so quiescent about it for so long.
Well that dam has bust wide open now. I can't get over how much polite anger there is over the IndyRef from English posters all over the comment pages. Any politician going for appeasement will get a kick in the ballots.
Very interesting point about English students. Not something I'd considered.
I have a niece who lives in England but has (through her father) an Irish passport. She is going to a Scottish uni for free, yet my daughter's friend at the same Scottish uni has to pay.
I have never understood why this is not classed as racism.
So, as far as I can tell Survation has 16-24 year olds the opposite of all the other polling companies - so going very heavily No, whilst others have the group split or going heavily Yes. They also have Glasgow as going heavily No which I think isn't in keeping with the other companies either.
That seems to be the difference between their result and everyone else as best as I can tell from 1 table.
The responses of MalcolmMg pretty much typify the SNP campaign. Attack the messenger, ignore the facts and tell everyone to look to the long term. This is a campaign that has split the country and reasoned argument has left the door.
snip
One area where there will certainly be an issue is the university system which relies heavily on English students to fund it. If they get removed from the UCAS the drop in applications will be massive. I know many professors who are already looking out new jobs.
It seems that the shift has moved against the SNP in the last few days. I don't expect many SNP supporters to switch back but I doubt they will get many new voters. It is now about No getting its vote out.
I thought we were going to be flooded by English students??
That's yesterday and tomorrow. Today it's student drought.
Doesn't it depend on whether Scotland decides to continue to discriminate against English students or not? If you do, drought; if you don't, flood. Surely it's not that complicated?
PS I should in fairness to you have explained that TUD and I were referring to the No campaign scare stories. We're so used to being threatened with being swamped with English students if Scotland goes indy, because Scotland will be in the EU, which is a nice example of doublethink in itself, and because, er, EWNI will be in the EU ...
Now I think of it, actually, perhaps student drought is the new black where the No campaign is concerned, given how quiet it has gone of late about the terrible fate of being thrown out of the EU if Scotland leaves the UK.
Now why should England, a polity since about 924 AD be carved up just so it "fits" with Scotland and Wales? Are all the English going to get a vote on that? I think our politicians will be terrified of letting that rather large cat out of the bag as a whole load of stuff flows from that logically.
Even if you did carve England up is the ( virtually permanently Tory with a UKIP opposition?) SE Region Parliament going to be able to vary income tax in the same way that Scotland can? And what happens when the push taxes down (as they will)? We could have tax completion between different parts of the island of Great Britain. It's Balkanisation writ small if we are not very careful.
The solution is to take subsidiarity to its logical conclusion. Allow MPs to vote only on matters affecting their constituency.
A Devolved Matters Equal Voting Act would resolve all.
"Could you leave everyone you love for the chance to settle on Mars? Sonia Van Meter describes herself as an "aspiring Martian" - she hopes to be one of the first humans on the planet in 10 years' time. But it would mean never seeing her husband again.
"I don't think you can apply for something like this and not be the tiniest bit insane," says Sonia Van Meter. "But this is the next great adventure, and I'm going to do absolutely anything I can to be a part of this."
The 35-year-old political consultant from Austin, Texas, is one of 705 people in the running to form a 20- to 40-strong human colony on Mars - a group whittled down from 200,000 who sent applications to Dutch not-for-profit organisation Mars One last year."
Quite, but that wouldn't have created what Labour hoped would be a perpetual fiefdom for themselves in Scotland...
Indeed. What a pity that the rest of us seem to be reaped what Labour has sown. Perhaps in the wake of the current debacle (assuming we come through it in one piece) somebody will have the whit to do something about it.
Mr. Owl, quite. An English Parliament is necessary, carving England into pieces is unacceptable.
Totally agree no need to complicate things.Whatever powers are covered by Max devo for Scotland should also be vested in separate English,Welsh and NI parliaments.The English welsh and NI electorate would vote in a referendum as to whether they wanted this change or or the staus quo. The timetable for achieving this should be pre GE 2015. A small UK wide elected second chamber would be required for defense,foreign affairs,fiscal backing etc. Inevitably in this cross UK body the majority of members would be from England just as is the case with Westminster now.
Devolution to the English regions would be a later decision for the English parliament.It is worth remembering that NE England voted on regional government and it was roundly rejected.
The responses of MalcolmMg pretty much typify the SNP campaign. Attack the messenger, ignore the facts and tell everyone to look to the long term. This is a campaign that has split the country and reasoned argument has left the door.
snip
One area where there will certainly be an issue is the university system which relies heavily on English students to fund it. If they get removed from the UCAS the drop in applications will be massive. I know many professors who are already looking out new jobs.
It seems that the shift has moved against the SNP in the last few days. I don't expect many SNP supporters to switch back but I doubt they will get many new voters. It is now about No getting its vote out.
I thought we were going to be flooded by English students??
That's yesterday and tomorrow. Today it's student drought.
Doesn't it depend on whether Scotland decides to continue to discriminate against English students or not? If you do, drought; if you don't, flood. Surely it's not that complicated?
For the nth time, Scotland does not discriminate against English students. All it does is give grants to people who are resident in Scotland. Not the same thing.
If that is the case why do the grants go to absolutely everyone from the EU who is not English (or from Northern Ireland)..
NI: only if they have Irish passports (and even that may have changed of late).
EU: as I recall, this was the system that prevaile throughout the UK before the grants were chopped. Each of the four nations (well, in rugger terms if not strict constitutional ones) paid (a) grants to its resident UK subjects (whatever their birthplace) and (b) ditto to EU students studyng in those nations.
[Edit]: that is the system that essentially prevails today - but with grants set at £0 everywhere but Scotland.
Very interesting point about English students. Not something I'd considered.
I have a niece who lives in England but has (through her father) an Irish passport. She is going to a Scottish uni for free, yet my daughter's friend at the same Scottish uni has to pay.
I have never understood why this is not classed as racism.
It's a common, if understandable, error. The distinction is simply because it is based on residence, for UK nationals. Someone resident, even if Scottish born, in England gets £0 of tuition fees. Someone resident in Scotland, even if English born, in Scotland gets tuition fees. Those were always the rules for decades - the only change is that Westminster changed the thermostat to zero and the Scots did not follow suit but foun the money from elsewhere in their block allocation.
My niece lives in Cheshire. She is as English as Cheshire Cheese. Someone is paying all her bills because of that Irish passport.
If we get an English Parliament with the same powers as a DevoMax Scotland we then have the very real problem of what the UK government is for other than foreign policy and defence. At that point it seems a little bit wasteful to have all those MPs sat at Westminster twiddling their thumbs until the next crisis blows up... And a UK PM would essentially be stripped of any authority on the domestic stage, being someone we wheel out occasionally for EU summits (assuming we stay in) and the odd photo op with the US President.
If Scotland really does get significant new powers in the tax and spend sphere, rather than DevoMax doesn't this really become CurrencyUnionPlus? Not sure why Salmonds really that bothered about independence now, looks like we'll gift him what he wants if everyone votes no...
I actually think that whereas constitutional reform has always languished down the bottom of the list of voter concerns, that is no longer the case now. 5m Scots have been electrified by the current debate, and England seems to have woken from its slumbers.
If it's a No, we're headed for a federal UK, I think there's no doubt about it, because that's the only logical destination on the current direction of travel (that all 3 parties are now signed up to, and which the Nats in Scotland and Wales ultimately wanted all along anyway).
Quite how that is going to work though with the possibility of a UK-wide administration setting overall policies which are at odds with whatever force emerges in England-alone, I don't know!
You are absolutely right. The issue of what England is to make of the Scottish 'DevoMax' proposals will rapidly emerge centre stage. The more perceptive MPs like John Redwood obviously realise this. We all know what Labour's priorities will be: featherbed the rebellious Scottish heartland, kick the WLQ into the long grass and send the English taxpayer the bill. This is a golden opportunity for the Tories, if they can get their act together, to articulate that England absolutely will not accept this.
"Could you leave everyone you love for the chance to settle on Mars? Sonia Van Meter describes herself as an "aspiring Martian" - she hopes to be one of the first humans on the planet in 10 years' time. But it would mean never seeing her husband again.
"I don't think you can apply for something like this and not be the tiniest bit insane," says Sonia Van Meter. "But this is the next great adventure, and I'm going to do absolutely anything I can to be a part of this."
The 35-year-old political consultant from Austin, Texas, is one of 705 people in the running to form a 20- to 40-strong human colony on Mars - a group whittled down from 200,000 who sent applications to Dutch not-for-profit organisation Mars One last year."
TBH, there are so many things wrong with Devolution that it's amazing that the English have been so quiescent about it for so long.
Well that dam has bust wide open now. I can't get over how much polite anger there is over the IndyRef from English posters all over the comment pages. Any politician going for appeasement will get a kick in the ballots.
Very interesting point about English students. Not something I'd considered.
I have a niece who lives in England but has (through her father) an Irish passport. She is going to a Scottish uni for free, yet my daughter's friend at the same Scottish uni has to pay.
I have never understood why this is not classed as racism.
I do appreciate that that particular issue is upsetting but it is very widely misunderstood (one might have one's suspicions about certain newspapers). But really it is simply that Scots decide to spend money differently, is about the strength of that particular issue.
I've been speaking with someone (Scot living in London) on another forum, unrelated to politics, who told me he has withdrawn all his money and investments from Scottish banks and institutions because he couldn't get sensible answers to a series of "what if" questions he'd been asking them for some time.
This guy is a big cheese in pharmaceuticals so we're talking quite a lot of money here I would think...
I can't imagine Scottish investment managers are picking up much, if any new business at the moment. No one of sound mind would hand over their savings now, and probably not in the future either.
Scotland's pensions industry is totally screwed. The capital flight south, must be horrendous.
Comments
The lack of vision and weakness of our political class is embarrassing.
No shit Sherlock. They are potentially storing up an explosive English reaction. Fine to give Scotland deep deep powers, incl tax. But give the same to England. A constitutional convention leading to a FUK is the only way we can avoid never ending grief now.
We'll be delighted to take their 5000 white collar jobs, thanks muchly...
Guilty 1-10 surely.
I believe Cameron has now lost the next election . This last minute begging will be a disaster for the Conservatives .
I actually think that whereas constitutional reform has always languished down the bottom of the list of voter concerns, that is no longer the case now. 5m Scots have been electrified by the current debate, and England seems to have woken from its slumbers.
If it's a No, we're headed for a federal UK, I think there's no doubt about it, because that's the only logical destination on the current direction of travel (that all 3 parties are now signed up to, and which the Nats in Scotland and Wales ultimately wanted all along anyway).
Quite how that is going to work though with the possibility of a UK-wide administration setting overall policies which are at odds with whatever force emerges in England-alone, I don't know!
Get that on t'Twitter...
I said about a forthinght back that all the arguments had been settled about 6 months ago.
The Nats have lost all the economic arguments why they still trying to pretend they have something to say is just beyond me. The Nats have won the touchy feely Disney arguments and the Unionisits have nothing much to counter it with.
So we should have had a vote 6 months ago.
All there is for observers such as myself is the crack of watching posters making tits of the themselves - SD hit the titting point 2 nights ago - the general merriment of politicans tying themselves in knots and the pathos of watching a country tear itself apart.
Trolling idiots seems the right response to that as far as I'm concerned.
John Lewis - an employee owned company with a model structure for a centre-leftish sort of voter that is ostensibly the Scottish majority vote. Could John Lewis save the union ?
I think if, after a month of reflection, Dave comes out for a FUK and a full and proper nod to England he'll win by a landslide.
Scaremongering, Yoonyoonist, Bluffers...
@bbcnickrobinson: Big day for @AlexSalmond. Must counter warnings re banks moving south, shop prices rising & uncertainty re £. Not new Qs but new urgency
Minus the charm...
memo : look for a man in vicar's collar and a jimmy hat ranting about how much he loves his homeland as he settles down to muffins and afternoon tea.
Gosh I miss them...
We can all see that it's highly likely the nationalists will keep agitating - so it's just prudent to act as if its inevitable.
Separation at ANY cost, especially jobs and tax revenue.
The SNP does not have the support of the wealth generators who would pay the bill. This does not set the scene for a successful transition to a new country. At my company we have already decided we would create a new English company if there is a Yes vote and some of our key staff have volunteered to move to England. This may not cause headlines on its own but if it is repeated in hundreds of other technical companies across Scotland the brain drain will be significant.
One area where there will certainly be an issue is the university system which relies heavily on English students to fund it. If they get removed from the UCAS the drop in applications will be massive. I know many professors who are already looking out new jobs.
It seems that the shift has moved against the SNP in the last few days. I don't expect many SNP supporters to switch back but I doubt they will get many new voters. It is now about No getting its vote out.
WTF? That's just beyond absurd.
F = former or federal? unfortunate ambiguity ...
You haven't denied being Bobafett or Han Dodges, only denied being Dan Hodges - which wasn't what I said.
I hope, for your sake, that there are some idiots fooled by the whole pseudo-flounce thing.
I wonder if we'll all be exhausted by the time of the vote.
Edited extra bit: just seen the comments from Mr. Llama and Mr. Socrates. Mr. Socrates is quite right. The Dark Ages were rubbish compared to the Roman Empire and to suggest otherwise is revisionist nonsense.
Edited extra bit two: http://i.imgur.com/Q3RU3ex.jpg
Iain Macwhirter's take isn't so very different in some ways.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/columnists/this-effing-referendum-is-far-from-over-yet-i-swear.25277397
This looks interesting unexpected even, given the date - thogh I can't get at it as I am maxed out and it's not in the paper version. If anyone can give me a brief summary I'd be grateful.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/viewpoint/yes-prospects-have-never-looked-brighter.25282766
And aside from places like Cornwall and Yorkshire, I can't imagine there being too much enthusiasm for splitting England up into federal units. We also should remember John Prescott failed spectacularly at introducing regional assemblies, although granted time has moved on now and this was before the current Scottish developments...
We're going to see daily, probably coordinated, annoucements by every major multinational in Scotland. The build up of fear for jobs and prosperity will, in my view, be enough to push the large number of DKs the 'right way', even if there's no movement in those who have already expressed a view.
But is was exciting there for a while, wasn't it
She could listen to people put their point and then on the 18th could give a thorough judgement and tell the Scots that they are better off in the UK.
Admittedly it may be an easy mistake to make in Scotland. With sheep.
Please for God's sake don't pox it all up now. We are so, so close to unloading you.
L35(+2)C28(+1)U17(-)LD9(+1)Others11(-4) ?
Edit: sorry this is old, it just appeared late in my thread
Now why should England, a polity since about 924 AD be carved up just so it "fits" with Scotland and Wales? Are all the English going to get a vote on that? I think our politicians will be terrified of letting that rather large cat out of the bag as a whole load of stuff flows from that logically.
Even if you did carve England up is the ( virtually permanently Tory with a UKIP opposition?) SE Region Parliament going to be able to vary income tax in the same way that Scotland can? And what happens when the push taxes down (as they will)? We could have tax completion between different parts of the island of Great Britain. It's Balkanisation writ small if we are not very careful.
Big businesses are always scared of uncertainty. Many can't even leave their houses without bursting into tears. #VoteYes #SexySocialism
This is quite accurate. The estate may be shared with game birds a la Her Maj, or with schemies a la Dundee, but an estate's an estate.
If Scotland votes Yes, I'm going to miss those Scotchmen one sees drunk in shop doorways at 9am shouting at themselves.
Let's face it, he'll be willing to do anything for cash once his job and pension have disappeared up Eck's fundament.
If the Herald has changed from cookies to IP tracking, presumably that explains the change in system behaviour - especially if so many people are looking at Scots news. I'm a bit annoyed as I pay for the paper version anyway. Maybe I ought to take out a sub and save money!
For those confident that Labour will win the most seats (although not necessarily an overall majority) at next May's General Election, now might be a good time to invest accordingly.
The odds on such an eventuality have been hardening over recent weeks and in some cases are already down to 4/6 or 1.67 decimal. In fact the only major bookies still offering odds of 4/5 or 1.80 decimal are BETFRED and Stan James.
No matter how often the likes of Richard Nabavi and others keep insisting that poll movements at present are "all noise" and should not be taken seriously until after the party conferences, the simple fact is that that the summer holidays are over, the kids are back at school and Autumn is just around the corner.
There has been a recent distinct, discernible increase in Labour's lead from an average of around 3% to 5%, which will undoubtedly show up in UKPR's next updated figures.
This in turn will result in Stephen Fisher's GE seat projection (as well as others others using a similar model) showing Labour moving into a clear lead over the Tories for the first time in many months. This in itself seems likely to lead to a shortening in Labour's odds on them winning the most seats, such that I doubt it will be possible to obtain those 4/5 odds in a week or two's time. We shall see.
Please do your own research.
The solution is to take subsidiarity to its logical conclusion. Allow MPs to vote only on matters affecting their constituency.
So, if something effects the whole UK, all MPs vote, if something only affects England then only English MPs vote, ditto for Scotland, Wales and NI. The only tricky bit is deciding how to draft legislation that MPs can vote on but legislation is already regional in many respects.
If it had been done this way in the first place there would be no need for devolution. All those expensive assemblies would be unneeded.
I have never understood why this is not classed as racism.
The only party I can see thriving now on a NO vote is UKIP, as they're the only party which seemingly is at least willing to stand up for English people. The tories and labour seem to want to be bending over to accept anything.
This guy is a big cheese in pharmaceuticals so we're talking quite a lot of money here I would think...
"Patients could be getting sicker and need more expensive treatment due to GP appointment difficulties, it is being claimed.
The Royal College of General Practitioners (RCGP) Wales says surgeries are "buckling under the strain of rising workloads".
It estimates 650,000 people in Wales found it difficult to get an appointment last year."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-29147315
Well that dam has bust wide open now. I can't get over how much polite anger there is over the IndyRef from English posters all over the comment pages. Any politician going for appeasement will get a kick in the ballots.
That seems to be the difference between their result and everyone else as best as I can tell from 1 table.
Now I think of it, actually, perhaps student drought is the new black where the No campaign is concerned, given how quiet it has gone of late about the terrible fate of being thrown out of the EU if Scotland leaves the UK.
Politician "No they won't"
Is ANYONE buying this crap from Swinney?
Reason for Divorce?
"Could you leave everyone you love for the chance to settle on Mars? Sonia Van Meter describes herself as an "aspiring Martian" - she hopes to be one of the first humans on the planet in 10 years' time. But it would mean never seeing her husband again.
"I don't think you can apply for something like this and not be the tiniest bit insane," says Sonia Van Meter. "But this is the next great adventure, and I'm going to do absolutely anything I can to be a part of this."
The 35-year-old political consultant from Austin, Texas, is one of 705 people in the running to form a 20- to 40-strong human colony on Mars - a group whittled down from 200,000 who sent applications to Dutch not-for-profit organisation Mars One last year."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29130853
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11087302/Scots-wont-get-independence-from-a-Yes-vote.html
The timetable for achieving this should be pre GE 2015.
A small UK wide elected second chamber would be required for defense,foreign affairs,fiscal backing etc.
Inevitably in this cross UK body the majority of members would be from England just as is the case with Westminster now.
Devolution to the English regions would be a later decision for the English parliament.It is worth remembering that NE England voted on regional government and it was roundly rejected.
EU: as I recall, this was the system that prevaile throughout the UK before the grants were chopped. Each of the four nations (well, in rugger terms if not strict constitutional ones) paid (a) grants to its resident UK subjects (whatever their birthplace) and (b) ditto to EU students studyng in those nations.
[Edit]: that is the system that essentially prevails today - but with grants set at £0 everywhere but Scotland.
If Scotland really does get significant new powers in the tax and spend sphere, rather than DevoMax doesn't this really become CurrencyUnionPlus? Not sure why Salmonds really that bothered about independence now, looks like we'll gift him what he wants if everyone votes no...
You are absolutely right. The issue of what England is to make of the Scottish 'DevoMax' proposals will rapidly emerge centre stage. The more perceptive MPs like John Redwood obviously realise this. We all know what Labour's priorities will be: featherbed the rebellious Scottish heartland, kick the WLQ into the long grass and send the English taxpayer the bill. This is a golden opportunity for the Tories, if they can get their act together, to articulate that England absolutely will not accept this.
Scotland's pensions industry is totally screwed. The capital flight south, must be horrendous.