If I was Yes (I want a No) I'd call the bluff of the discredited financial services industry.
However, another massive own goal - alongside the currency issue - by Salmond to place his economic eggs in the basket of the very industry that crashed the global economy.
@faisalislam: No longer a "scare story": it is a fact now: RBS will redomicile to England after a Yes. yes side shd explain why they think tis no problem
Salmond the Seer, Harvard, 2008;
"of course we Scots are lucky enough to have the one of the best brands in the world - a global recognition and affection for our culture that money cannot buy. Take financial services. With RBS and HBOS - two of the world's biggest banks - Scotland has global leaders today, tomorrow and for the long-term".
Rupert Murdoch @rupertmurdoch · 11h Okay, how would Salmond govern? Socialist paradise no. People need jobs, decent pay, streamline bureaucracy,new investment. No EU.
Oh dear, the Nats seem just a little bit upset this morning, verging on the unbalanced.
I guess the Sheffield Rally victory party didn't go so well...
Trolling 24/7 with the same lines, over and over again. Here's Bobajob's challenge: compose a post of 4-5 sentences on a topic of your choice. This must be your own opinion, not the drivel if others. Let's see if you can do it.
Georgia Graham @georgiagraham Alex Salmond reacting to RBS and Lloyds... by attacking the BBC reporting
Georgia Graham @georgiagraham Salmond refusing to answer whether he is concerned "what really concerns me is how this information was released to the BBC"
Royal Bank of Scotland and Lloyds Banking Group will move their operations south of the border if Scotland votes for independence next week, it emerged on Wednesday night.
I wonder what else people haven't been "bluffing" about?
In the event of a YES vote – would the last Bank to leaver Scotland pls turn out the light?
Pass the sick bucket
Look on the bright side malc, at least you won;t have to change bank when you move to England ;-)
We will have banks
Apart from the Airdrie Savings Bank - who?
matters not where teh brass plate sits.
It does if you are employed by the bank.....which is what we were discussing....about how Separation would be so good for jobs...
They have not mentioned any jobs moving you turnip, they are doing a paper exercise so that idiots like you have to fund the bankers when they mess up. Yesterday you were crowing how we could not bail them out now you are lumbered with them. Try and get some consistency in your scary stories.
Er! Here we go again.
Most of these companies have very good disaster recovery systems, which means that they can be moved anywhere in the world (or Newcastle) with new staff and only basic training required to maintain operations at a minimally acceptable level for a short period of time while full training can be given.
In quite a few Scottish businesses, it would be actually be cheaper to make all the floor level staff redundant (wages paid on levels of length of employment, pension payments into company schemes, costs of office space etc.) and start a new in a low cost area with fresh staff.
Rupert Murdoch @rupertmurdoch · 11h Okay, how would Salmond govern? Socialist paradise no. People need jobs, decent pay, streamline bureaucracy,new investment. No EU.
Anecdote alert: today is the first YouGov for a while to have Labour ahead on the Scottish subsample. (Anecdote because it's an unweighted 185 people.)
Bobajob FPT: Andrew Rosindell and I at the Tory conference are talking about whether it's possible to end animal testing on cats and dogs. Cats are rarely used now, but feature in unpleasant vision tests (kittens' eyes sewn up from birth etc.) with no obvious relevance to humans. Dogs are mainly used as a re-test of chemical safety for substances already tested on mice (the legislation specifies you've got to test on two species), but new research shows that no additional safety information is provided by the retest, so essentially everyone is wasting time, money and dogs.
Old regulations tend to linger on long after the research has changed the picture, so it's the job of NGOs like mine to say, "Oi, there's new information, time to review the policy". Andrew Rosindell is vey helpful on animal issues, even if our views on Europe, say, might not totally coincide.
But the big picture is this: no one other than Yougov who have made a truly embarrassing mess of their polling on Sindy, going from one extreme to the other in a very short time, is picking up any major movement to Yes (so far).
I may be missing something here, but isn't the issue with the Scottish finance sector heading south its ability then to make a contribution to iScotland's tax take? If a company is incorporated in England and selling most of its products in England, won't the corporation and other taxes it pays end up with the rUK, with the money from its much smaller Scottish operations staying in Scotland? If that is correct, then given the size of the finance sector in the Scottish economy that is going to be a major problem, isn't it?
Yes it is and you are precisely right. What we are talking about with these financial institutions is the loss of a significant part of our tax base. We will also lose a significant part of our higher rate tax payers, something Scotland is not over endowed with.
The SNP fantasy figures assume after independence there will be an increase in the tax base because fewer young Scots will emigrate and we will have more immigrants. Given what has already been confirmed this is vanishingly unlikely and the probability is that the deficit in an independent Scotland would be substantially more than it is already.
Swinney says uncertainty about the currency applies because of the refusal of the UK, and the Labour party, to accept the advantages of a currency union between an independent Scotland and the rest of the UK
Rupert Murdoch @rupertmurdoch · 11h Okay, how would Salmond govern? Socialist paradise no. People need jobs, decent pay, streamline bureaucracy,new investment. No EU.
Swinney says uncertainty about the currency applies because of the refusal of the UK, and the Labour party, to accept the advantages of a currency union between an independent Scotland and the rest of the UK
Bingley in West Yorkshire lost the HQ building for Bradford and Bingley bank in 2008 during the banking crisis, it is now a sainsbury`s many lost their jobs
So without a currency union a few HQ`s will move, especially to be risk averse against another crisis. However there will be a deal,if there is a yes vote, whatever they say, to avoid another crisis.
'Patronising' Salmond feels Mumsnet backlash First Minister comes off worse in Mumsnet session with Alistair Darling "If I see the word 'scaremongering' used on more time in response to people's honest and very real worries I will throw a hissy fit my children would be proud of," another user said. "'m so utterly sick of it."
Pity they had a majority voting for YES, who cares what they think of Salmond.
Mumsnet?
Source?
In all fairness the Telegraph Mumsnet story was one of the most laughably bias articles I have read since the campaign began. Cherry picked anecdote vs (voodoo) polling. Why did they even bother?
Yesterday was reality day for the people of Scotland and for Salmond.
The banks, financial services and insurance companies confirmed that they would move a major part of their operations, assets and jobs to rUK and most likely England.
The oil companies confirmed the Wood report of the declining oil availability and rising cost of extraction.
Thus having seen Salmond's economic bubble well and truly pricked, in a week's time will the Scots vote with their hearts or their heads?
Reality my arse , it just showed how nasty and vindictive the English establishment is. We will be well shot of them.
Always wondered if you had an arse, or whether you levitated on all the hot air you produce from all your orifices.
LOL, sad sack Tory halfwit tries to be witty
Sadly you make assumptions that are nearly always wrong. I have never been a member of any political party but belong to the party of logical Common Sense.
No one trumpeting BUPA coming out for No? Such a successful private health company must be a boon for them surely?
so many businesses coming out for No that we haven't had time to get round to BUPA.
Personally I was amazed to find BUPA operated in Scotland why would anyone need private health insurance in the first place since Salmond's told us how perfect he's made the NHS. ?
Most of these companies have very good disaster recovery systems, which means that they can be moved anywhere in the world (or Newcastle) with new staff and only basic training required to maintain operations at a minimally acceptable level for a short period of time while full training can be given.
In quite a few Scottish businesses, it would be actually be cheaper to make all the floor level staff redundant (wages paid on levels of length of employment, pension payments into company schemes, costs of office space etc.) and start a new in a low cost area with fresh staff.
Yep, and there most be a fair few companies that would love to do just that but cannot as there is no external justification for doing it.
But a YES vote gives them a perfectly legitimate if not inappropriate justification for it.
Swinney says uncertainty about the currency applies because of the refusal of the UK, and the Labour party, to accept the advantages of a currency union between an independent Scotland and the rest of the UK
Note that the claimed advantages of a currency union for rUK are not identified.
A comment from last night (which would make a perfect blog topic for SeanT)...
Would independence have a chance if the question was reversed and Salmond et al had to campaign for the answer NO rather than YES... There is a lot of psychological evidence to show that its easier to encourage a positive rather than negative reaction...
If I was Yes (I want a No) I'd call the bluff of the discredited financial services industry.
However, another massive own goal - alongside the currency issue - by Salmond to place his economic eggs in the basket of the very industry that crashed the global economy.
To be honest I'd be quite annoyed if the rUK owned the vast majority of RBS yet it was largely supporting jobs in a foreign country.
Is this true, could be for all I know, but in the context of all the bluster about the rUK accepting a currency union just because Scotland (a foreign country at that point) wants one, it does make me wonder.
"Salmond says the statements from BP and Standard Life yesterday were a “recycling” of things they had said before. But the London press did not realise, because they have not focused on the campaign before."
Few doubt that if the Yes supporters are defeated in a week's time, it won't be that long, perhaps only five years, before they come banging on the independence door again. I can't help but feel that having been forced to investigate the practicalities as well as the economics of undertaking a great migration into England, the likes of Lloyds Bank, RBS, Standard Life and a good few other financial institutions will be determined not to to get caught short again. Whilst they are unlikely to up sticks and move south anyway, it seems probable that when the opportunity of expansion arises, future investment is likely to be concentrated in London rather than Edinburgh. To that extent quite considerable damage to the Scottish financial services industry may have already occurred.
Bingley in West Yorkshire lost the HQ building for Bradford and Bingley bank in 2008 during the banking crisis, it is now a sainsbury`s many lost their jobs
So without a currency union a few HQ`s will move, especially to be risk averse against another crisis. However there will be a deal,if there is a yes vote, whatever they say, to avoid another crisis.
Err no. The financial sector is about more than banking. There is a huge pension industry in Scotland which has about 90+% of its business on the other side of the border, given pensions are such a minefield of legislation I really can't see this staying where it is so the office jobs go too.
I'm glad businesses are at last coming out with the obvious truth; Scottish independence will definitely result in some Scots losing their jobs, whether they voted for independence or not.
It makes me angry that the nationalists are so cavalier about people's livelihoods.
If I was Yes (I want a No) I'd call the bluff of the discredited financial services industry.
However, another massive own goal - alongside the currency issue - by Salmond to place his economic eggs in the basket of the very industry that crashed the global economy.
To be honest I'd be quite annoyed if the rUK owned the vast majority of RBS yet it was largely supporting jobs in a foreign country.
If I was Yes (I want a No) I'd call the bluff of the discredited financial services industry.
However, another massive own goal - alongside the currency issue - by Salmond to place his economic eggs in the basket of the very industry that crashed the global economy.
To be honest I'd be quite annoyed if the rUK owned the vast majority of RBS yet it was largely supporting jobs in a foreign country.
The majority of RBS Groups jobs are in England?
No but the liabilities are, as are the taxpayers who funded them.
If I was Yes (I want a No) I'd call the bluff of the discredited financial services industry.
However, another massive own goal - alongside the currency issue - by Salmond to place his economic eggs in the basket of the very industry that crashed the global economy.
To be honest I'd be quite annoyed if the rUK owned the vast majority of RBS yet it was largely supporting jobs in a foreign country.
The majority of RBS Groups jobs are in England?
No but the liabilities are, as are the taxpayers who funded them.
Sorry , that was a rhetorical question.
The majority of RBS Group jobs are outwith of Scotland.
RBS employs about 100,000 people, about 11,000 of them are in Scotland.
Times politely reporting on the Tory selection in Clacton: "...But tonight a 1980s television star called Giles Watling, and Sue Lissimore, a local councillor, will vie for the chance of taking him on.
Watling played a vicar in Bread, a sitcom charting life in Liverpool, and Laura Pitel in The Times uncovers the startling fact that in 1988 an audience of 21 million tuned in to watch his character marry an aspiring model.
Watling accepted that Carswell was popular locally but "so am I". "
Hmm.
Meanwhile Isabel Hardman unfashionably admires Dave and Ed:
Wasn't it the part nationalisation of HBOS where Brown and Darling made a specific commitment to protect jobs in Scotland? I don't know what the outcome was but it was a remarkable thing to say. Did Halifax end up bearing the brunt.
Hopefully, the huge amounts being wagered on the Scottish referendum through Betfair's exchange will encourage their management to introduce a decent range of General Election related bets, where thus far, true to form, they have lagged dismally behind the likes of Ladbrokes, etc.
Are the full data tables available yet for the survation poll.
I'm deeply interested as to why the indy question was question 10 for a start.
If they are like their past polls, the first eight questions are voter ID questions, such where do you live, what is your age, what is your highest educational qualification, do you work, what sector do you work in etc
"The banks, financial services and insurance companies confirmed that they would move a major part of their operations, assets and jobs to rUK and most likely England.
The oil companies confirmed the Wood report of the declining oil availability and rising cost of extraction.....
Thus having seen Salmond's economic bubble well and truly pricked..."
Its beginning to sound like a YES vote would be a lucky escape for the rest of the UK,
Are the full data tables available yet for the survation poll.
I'm deeply interested as to why the indy question was question 10 for a start.
If they are like their past polls, the first eight questions are voter ID questions, such where do you live, what is your age, what is your highest educational qualification, do you work, what sector do you work in etc
don't forget "When did you last meet a unionist turnip?"
Are the full data tables available yet for the survation poll.
I'm deeply interested as to why the indy question was question 10 for a start.
If they are like their past polls, the first eight questions are voter ID questions, such where do you live, what is your age, what is your highest educational qualification, do you work, what sector do you work in etc
I though as much.
Unless I've done my sums wrong it looks like there's been quite a swing in the 65+ age group towards Yes according to Survation ?
@BBCLouise: Interesting point by @naughtiej that SNP estimate of cost of separation at £200,000 would be almost a 1/4 of cost of Edins 6 miles of trams
If we don't get more polls putting Yes in the lead, something quite extraordinary and perhaps alarming may have happened in British politics. With devomax now on the table, one or two opinion polls with dubious methodology could have changed the British constitution. Let's wait and see what the final result is, but I wonder if it might be time to start questioning the authority and power of the pollsters.
If I was Yes (I want a No) I'd call the bluff of the discredited financial services industry.
However, another massive own goal - alongside the currency issue - by Salmond to place his economic eggs in the basket of the very industry that crashed the global economy.
To be honest I'd be quite annoyed if the rUK owned the vast majority of RBS yet it was largely supporting jobs in a foreign country.
The majority of RBS Groups jobs are in England?
No but the liabilities are, as are the taxpayers who funded them.
Sorry , that was a rhetorical question.
The majority of RBS Group jobs are outwith of Scotland.
RBS employs about 100,000 people, about 11,000 of them are in Scotland.
About 100,000 Scots work in financial services a further 57,000 work for UK central government and then a number of others maybe 30,000 are directly dependent of HMG spend such as shipbuilding and other defence projects.
So near on 200k jobs are in risks sectors in pretty short order.
I'd say half of FS will go so 50k, 50k of the Govt jobs and most of the government dependent jobs so depending on your stance
Unionists will slap on 5% to scottish unemployment and a reuduction in the economy of about the same size
in Nat speak our growing economy will generate millions of new jobs so stop scaremongering
"The banks, financial services and insurance companies confirmed that they would move a major part of their operations, assets and jobs to rUK and most likely England.
The oil companies confirmed the Wood report of the declining oil availability and rising cost of extraction.....
Thus having seen Salmond's economic bubble well and truly pricked..."
Its beginning to sound like a YES vote would be a lucky escape for the rest of the UK,
The SNP grew on the back of North Sea Oil, and will shrink as that shrinks. It may be some decades away, but with an ageing population, declining industries and a culture of welfarism the future of Scotland looks like Wales with whisky.
A Yes vote may well help England dodge that bullet.
If we don't get more polls putting Yes in the lead, something quite extraordinary and perhaps alarming may have happened in British politics. With devomax now on the table, one or two opinion polls with dubious methodology could have changed the British constitution. Let's wait and see what the final result is, but I wonder if it might be time to start questioning the authority and power of the pollsters.
It depends how close the vote ends up being, I think.
This comment in The Times has struck a chord with a lot of readers
Anthony Warren 4 hours ago
As a Canadian I can say, welcome to the club. The UK is in for endless pandering to Scotland to keep it in the Union. This has been Quebec's strategy for the last 75 or more years.
Separatism is pretty much dead in Canada now as we pay so much Danegeld to Quebec to stay in Canada that even crazy Frenchmen can do the math.
I think if the Scots want to go the UK would be better off to push them off the curb than to spend the endless dosh that the Scots will demand to stay within the Union. If they vote to stay in, that should be the absolute end of it and all negotiation for more independence by the Scots. After that they can saddle up and go to war with England. That has worked out so well for Scotland over their entire history that they should by now learn that being in the UK beats the hell out of their alternatives.
Remind me, why does the UK want Scotland in the union, exactly?
The UK should be pushing Scotland towards leaving while the going is good. It feels like Westminster's appeasement of nationalists has started the steady march towards full fiscal autonomy for Scotland, something which is hugely advantageous for Scotland but has numerous downsides and very little upside for the UK. Being a country should mean more than acting as a central bank and lender of last resort for a quasi-independent small nation with an oversized banking sector.
Oh dear, the Nats seem just a little bit upset this morning, verging on the unbalanced.
I guess the Sheffield Rally victory party didn't go so well...
Trolling 24/7 with the same lines, over and over again. Here's Bobajob's challenge: compose a post of 4-5 sentences on a topic of your choice. This must be your own opinion, not the drivel if others. Let's see if you can do it.
Bob, Scott is a raving lunatic as we see from the deranged posts on here, best ignored or just laughed at.
Morning all and I gather that a Labour Cllr in York has defected to the Tory Party thereby depriving Labour of its majority.
On IndyRef, I fear that the relocation threat of RBS, Lloyds, Standard Life etc will make only a marginal difference. RBS is apparently writing to staff today to say the move is technical only and wont affect their jobs.
We cannot forget that the group of undecided voters is largely ex WWC Labour voters in Central Scotland. How many of them have savings, private pensions etc? Probably not nearly enough to consider switching from YES to NO. Fatty Prescott's utterly crass comments about combining the Scottish and English football teams is far more likely to have an effect on many men in this group.
Are the full data tables available yet for the survation poll.
I'm deeply interested as to why the indy question was question 10 for a start.
If they are like their past polls, the first eight questions are voter ID questions, such where do you live, what is your age, what is your highest educational qualification, do you work, what sector do you work in etc
I though as much.
Unless I've done my sums wrong it looks like there's been quite a swing in the 65+ age group towards Yes according to Survation ?
Royal Bank of Scotland and Lloyds Banking Group will move their operations south of the border if Scotland votes for independence next week, it emerged on Wednesday night.
I wonder what else people haven't been "bluffing" about?
In the event of a YES vote – would the last Bank to leaver Scotland pls turn out the light?
Pass the sick bucket
Look on the bright side malc, at least you won;t have to change bank when you move to England ;-)
We will have banks
Apart from the Airdrie Savings Bank - who?
matters not where teh brass plate sits.
It does if you are employed by the bank.....which is what we were discussing....about how Separation would be so good for jobs...
They have not mentioned any jobs moving you turnip, they are doing a paper exercise so that idiots like you have to fund the bankers when they mess up. Yesterday you were crowing how we could not bail them out now you are lumbered with them. Try and get some consistency in your scary stories.
Er! Here we go again.
Most of these companies have very good disaster recovery systems, which means that they can be moved anywhere in the world (or Newcastle) with new staff and only basic training required to maintain operations at a minimally acceptable level for a short period of time while full training can be given.
In quite a few Scottish businesses, it would be actually be cheaper to make all the floor level staff redundant (wages paid on levels of length of employment, pension payments into company schemes, costs of office space etc.) and start a new in a low cost area with fresh staff.
So you know nothing about their IT systems or IT in general then. Lloyds is already headquartered in London. RBS have told staff it is just a paperwork exercise and involves no jobs moving. Tits like you believing BBC lies is about what we expect. Back under your rock.
I may be missing something here, but isn't the issue with the Scottish finance sector heading south its ability then to make a contribution to iScotland's tax take? If a company is incorporated in England and selling most of its products in England, won't the corporation and other taxes it pays end up with the rUK, with the money from its much smaller Scottish operations staying in Scotland? If that is correct, then given the size of the finance sector in the Scottish economy that is going to be a major problem, isn't it?
Yes it is and you are precisely right. What we are talking about with these financial institutions is the loss of a significant part of our tax base. We will also lose a significant part of our higher rate tax payers, something Scotland is not over endowed with.
The SNP fantasy figures assume after independence there will be an increase in the tax base because fewer young Scots will emigrate and we will have more immigrants. Given what has already been confirmed this is vanishingly unlikely and the probability is that the deficit in an independent Scotland would be substantially more than it is already.
David , you get more deluded and stressed every day. You need to lie down or stop believing and spouting the lies. Currently everything goes to London so Scotland cannot fail to get more tax income.
Yesterday was reality day for the people of Scotland and for Salmond.
The banks, financial services and insurance companies confirmed that they would move a major part of their operations, assets and jobs to rUK and most likely England.
The oil companies confirmed the Wood report of the declining oil availability and rising cost of extraction.
Thus having seen Salmond's economic bubble well and truly pricked, in a week's time will the Scots vote with their hearts or their heads?
Reality my arse , it just showed how nasty and vindictive the English establishment is. We will be well shot of them.
Always wondered if you had an arse, or whether you levitated on all the hot air you produce from all your orifices.
LOL, sad sack Tory halfwit tries to be witty
Sadly you make assumptions that are nearly always wrong. I have never been a member of any political party but belong to the party of logical Common Sense.
You are a fanny of the first order, full of wind and piss.
No one trumpeting BUPA coming out for No? Such a successful private health company must be a boon for them surely?
so many businesses coming out for No that we haven't had time to get round to BUPA.
Personally I was amazed to find BUPA operated in Scotland why would anyone need private health insurance in the first place since Salmond's told us how perfect he's made the NHS. ?
Alan, you are almost down to Scott's level now, sad that one of the few sensible poster's has caught the contagion.
.On IndyRef, I fear that the relocation threat of RBS, Lloyds, Standard Life etc will make only a marginal difference. RBS is apparently writing to staff today to say the move is technical only and wont affect their jobs. .
Until it does. Of course RBS are not going to tell their employees their jobs are moving in a Press Release...but over time, hiring freezes, retirees not being replaced...the jobs will leech south
Best comment on Prescott was Duncan Letts about causing several diplomatic incidents in Glasgow, a cross between Les Dawson and Sir Les Patterson.....
Oh dear, the Nats seem just a little bit upset this morning, verging on the unbalanced.
I guess the Sheffield Rally victory party didn't go so well...
Trolling 24/7 with the same lines, over and over again. Here's Bobajob's challenge: compose a post of 4-5 sentences on a topic of your choice. This must be your own opinion, not the drivel if others. Let's see if you can do it.
Serial pseudo-flouncer criticises another poster's style...
I'm still intrigued; how do you know when it's time to pretend to be unable to post here any more, then return within hours as one of your many alter egos?
Royal Bank of Scotland and Lloyds Banking Group will move their operations south of the border if Scotland votes for independence next week, it emerged on Wednesday night.
Morning all and I gather that a Labour Cllr in York has defected to the Tory Party thereby depriving Labour of its majority.
On IndyRef, I fear that the relocation threat of RBS, Lloyds, Standard Life etc will make only a marginal difference. RBS is apparently writing to staff today to say the move is technical only and wont affect their jobs.
We cannot forget that the group of undecided voters is largely ex WWC Labour voters in Central Scotland. How many of them have savings, private pensions etc? Probably not nearly enough to consider switching from YES to NO. Fatty Prescott's utterly crass comments about combining the Scottish and English football teams is far more likely to have an effect on many men in this group.
Easterross - good point. Why the hell did he do that? I know, let's try to artificially stick together two historic rivals. Prescott just whistles his own tune at times. A moronic intervention.
This comment in The Times has struck a chord with a lot of readers
Anthony Warren 4 hours ago
As a Canadian I can say, welcome to the club. The UK is in for endless pandering to Scotland to keep it in the Union. This has been Quebec's strategy for the last 75 or more years.
Separatism is pretty much dead in Canada now as we pay so much Danegeld to Quebec to stay in Canada that even crazy Frenchmen can do the math.
I think if the Scots want to go the UK would be better off to push them off the curb than to spend the endless dosh that the Scots will demand to stay within the Union. If they vote to stay in, that should be the absolute end of it and all negotiation for more independence by the Scots. After that they can saddle up and go to war with England. That has worked out so well for Scotland over their entire history that they should by now learn that being in the UK beats the hell out of their alternatives.
Remind me, why does the UK want Scotland in the union, exactly?
The UK should be pushing Scotland towards leaving while the going is good. It feels like Westminster's appeasement of nationalists has started the steady march towards full fiscal autonomy for Scotland, something which is hugely advantageous for Scotland but has numerous downsides and very little upside for the UK. Being a country should mean more than acting as a central bank and lender of last resort for a quasi-independent small nation with an oversized banking sector.
I do feel we've crossed something of a rubicon. If Scotland votes no, it is heading for a great deal of autonomy.
My fear is this leads to constitutional chaos because, as I mentioned last night, the WLQ becomes even more of a headache. Plus, without wanting to put too fine a point on it, there is a view among some in England that Scotland gets a cushy deal. It's going to look to that observer that the deal will be even cushier following a no vote.
We don't need new powers for Scotland being 'rushed in'. If they stay in the union on the basis that the UK government has promised more power, there needs to be a constitutional convention of the whole of the UK to work out how it functions best in terms of legislation/representation/government formation at the centre. Though what possible option there is, I'm not sure.
The usual suspects (I note Gordon has his hands all over this - though the Tories have completely gone along with him, so I'm not exempting them from the criticism) have done their usual tactic of looking at the short term, promising more power and kicking the can down the road for a couple more years until it all blows up again. The lack of vision and weakness of our political class is embarrassing.
Royal Bank of Scotland and Lloyds Banking Group will move their operations south of the border if Scotland votes for independence next week, it emerged on Wednesday night.
The Vicar of Bath doesn't get a vote does he.....bit like Alan Cumming & Sean Connery.
....LOL....
Still, he is actually influencing votes, I think 400k downloads of The Wee Blue Book so far with another 250k hard copies distributed, 600k unique visitors in August alone.
And he doesn't get bumped off the Westminster Hour 'cos something more interesting turned up.
I assume you just looked at headline as usual, if you actually read it so far it is brass plates only. Arse lickers chasing gongs, you on the list yet or do you polish yours as you decry Scotland.
Have you spoken to the people responsible for their Yes vote contingency plans to confirm its a plate moving exercise.....
I very much doubt it is. With a Yes vote the Scottish accent is about to become toxic to many within rUK It won't be the reassuring accent banks like to use. I can see some of the least expected items moving South of the border fairly quickly..
I assume you just looked at headline as usual, if you actually read it so far it is brass plates only. Arse lickers chasing gongs, you on the list yet or do you polish yours as you decry Scotland.
Have you spoken to the people responsible for their Yes vote contingency plans to confirm its a plate moving exercise.....
I very much doubt it is. With a Yes vote the Scottish accent is about to become toxic to many within rUK It won't be the reassuring accent banks like to use. I can see some of the least expected items moving South of the border fairly quickly..
I'm glad businesses are at last coming out with the obvious truth; Scottish independence will definitely result in some Scots losing their jobs, whether they voted for independence or not.
It makes me angry that the nationalists are so cavalier about people's livelihoods.
oooooh Betty you are angry , bet you could just crush a grape in your rage. You stupid fanny.
The Vicar of Bath doesn't get a vote does he.....bit like Alan Cumming & Sean Connery.
....LOL....
Still, he is actually influencing votes, I think 400k downloads of The Wee Blue Book so far with another 250k hard copies distributed, 600k unique visitors in August alone.
And he doesn't get bumped off the Westminster Hour 'cos something more interesting turned up.
Comments
However, another massive own goal - alongside the currency issue - by Salmond to place his economic eggs in the basket of the very industry that crashed the global economy.
"of course we Scots are lucky enough to have the one of the best brands in the world - a global recognition and affection for our culture that money cannot buy. Take financial services. With RBS and HBOS - two of the world's biggest banks - Scotland has global leaders today, tomorrow and for the long-term".
Rupert Murdoch @rupertmurdoch · 11h
Okay, how would Salmond govern? Socialist paradise no.
People need jobs, decent pay, streamline bureaucracy,new investment. No EU.
Georgia Graham @georgiagraham
Alex Salmond reacting to RBS and Lloyds... by attacking the BBC reporting
Georgia Graham @georgiagraham
Salmond refusing to answer whether he is concerned "what really concerns me is how this information was released to the BBC"
Most of these companies have very good disaster recovery systems, which means that they can be moved anywhere in the world (or Newcastle) with new staff and only basic training required to maintain operations at a minimally acceptable level for a short period of time while full training can be given.
In quite a few Scottish businesses, it would be actually be cheaper to make all the floor level staff redundant (wages paid on levels of length of employment, pension payments into company schemes, costs of office space etc.) and start a new in a low cost area with fresh staff.
Thanks Nick - good luck to you both.
How soon we forget.
The SNP fantasy figures assume after independence there will be an increase in the tax base because fewer young Scots will emigrate and we will have more immigrants. Given what has already been confirmed this is vanishingly unlikely and the probability is that the deficit in an independent Scotland would be substantially more than it is already.
@BBCNormanS: An independent Scotland wd accept some 'fiscal constraints' if UK parties agreed to currency union - @JohnSwinney @BBCr4today
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/scottish-independence-blog/live/2014/sep/11/scottish-independence-referendum-alex-salmond-holds-press-conference-live
Back to John Swinney.
Swinney says uncertainty about the currency applies because of the refusal of the UK, and the Labour party, to accept the advantages of a currency union between an independent Scotland and the rest of the UK
So without a currency union a few HQ`s will move, especially to be risk averse against another crisis.
However there will be a deal,if there is a yes vote, whatever they say, to avoid another crisis.
Salmond....Hooked......Played.......Netted.......Landed...............Now he's GUTTED....!! http://
Sadly you make assumptions that are nearly always wrong. I have never been a member of any political party but belong to the party of logical Common Sense.
Personally I was amazed to find BUPA operated in Scotland why would anyone need private health insurance in the first place since Salmond's told us how perfect he's made the NHS. ?
Via Guardian live blog.
Q: RBS has contingency plans for a yes vote. Do you accept that it is because of uncertainty that they have made these plans?
Swinney says an agreement on a currency union would resolve this.
Q: Why do you think that would happen?
If Scotland had a mandate from the voters, the UK party leaders would accept that.
Q: How confident are you?
Very confident, says Swinney.
And that’s it.
But a YES vote gives them a perfectly legitimate if not inappropriate justification for it.
And now over to BBC Radio Scotland where the Alex Salmond interview is still going on.
Q: Do you accept there would be a flight of capital in the event of independence?
Salmond says Mark Carney, as governor of the Bank of England, said yesterday he would be in charge during the negotations.
He says it is his “overwhelming belief” that Westminster would accept a currency union.
The UK government will be first at the table to arrange a currency union after a yes vote, he says.
From Guardian.
They are going to have to kow tow at the Court of King Salmond.
Would independence have a chance if the question was reversed and Salmond et al had to campaign for the answer NO rather than YES... There is a lot of psychological evidence to show that its easier to encourage a positive rather than negative reaction...
What else is Swinney being so coy about?
"Salmond says the statements from BP and Standard Life yesterday were a “recycling” of things they had said before. But the London press did not realise, because they have not focused on the campaign before."
"Cretin"
"Jessie"
"Fanny"
"Mince"
In Malcolmg the SNP has found its laureate.
Salmond claims it's 'scaremongering'
I can't help but feel that having been forced to investigate the practicalities as well as the economics of undertaking a great migration into England, the likes of Lloyds Bank, RBS, Standard Life and a good few other financial institutions will be determined not to to get caught short again.
Whilst they are unlikely to up sticks and move south anyway, it seems probable that when the opportunity of expansion arises, future investment is likely to be concentrated in London rather than Edinburgh.
To that extent quite considerable damage to the Scottish financial services industry may have already occurred.
It makes me angry that the nationalists are so cavalier about people's livelihoods.
I'm deeply interested as to why the indy question was question 10 for a start.
The majority of RBS Group jobs are outwith of Scotland.
RBS employs about 100,000 people, about 11,000 of them are in Scotland.
"...But tonight a 1980s television star called Giles Watling, and Sue Lissimore, a local councillor, will vie for the chance of taking him on.
Watling played a vicar in Bread, a sitcom charting life in Liverpool, and Laura Pitel in The Times uncovers the startling fact that in 1988 an audience of 21 million tuned in to watch his character marry an aspiring model.
Watling accepted that Carswell was popular locally but "so am I". "
Hmm.
Meanwhile Isabel Hardman unfashionably admires Dave and Ed:
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/09/cameron-and-miliband-have-panicked-well-today/
The oil companies confirmed the Wood report of the declining oil availability and rising cost of extraction.....
Thus having seen Salmond's economic bubble well and truly pricked..."
Its beginning to sound like a YES vote would be a lucky escape for the rest of the UK,
Peter Oborne agrees with those of us who say Cameron will go if a 'Yes':
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11087292/Scottish-independence-Britain-is-facing-its-greatest-constitutional-crisis-in-300-years.html
Unless I've done my sums wrong it looks like there's been quite a swing in the 65+ age group towards Yes according to Survation ?
So near on 200k jobs are in risks sectors in pretty short order.
I'd say half of FS will go so 50k, 50k of the Govt jobs and most of the government dependent jobs so depending on your stance
Unionists will slap on 5% to scottish unemployment and a reuduction in the economy of about the same size
in Nat speak our growing economy will generate millions of new jobs so stop scaremongering
@BBCNormanS: What a difference a day makes. Gloom over Calton Hill #indyref http://t.co/nN2dry6mW4
A Yes vote may well help England dodge that bullet.
Says Survation only call landlines, don't call people on mobiles, so aren't representative.
Gordon @Gri64 11h
@Survation Any comment on @patrickharvie claim you poll is wrong as you only call people on land lines?
Survation @Survation 8h
@Gri64 @patrickharvie yes we do have an official comment. As an online poll, it is difficult to involve mobile phones.
Patrick Harvie
@patrickharvie
@Gri64 @Survation If I was wrong about that, I apologise.
On IndyRef, I fear that the relocation threat of RBS, Lloyds, Standard Life etc will make only a marginal difference. RBS is apparently writing to staff today to say the move is technical only and wont affect their jobs.
We cannot forget that the group of undecided voters is largely ex WWC Labour voters in Central Scotland. How many of them have savings, private pensions etc? Probably not nearly enough to consider switching from YES to NO. Fatty Prescott's utterly crass comments about combining the Scottish and English football teams is far more likely to have an effect on many men in this group.
I really must look up that clip on YTube "There are no tanks in Baghdad..." Behind You!!!!
....LOL....
Best comment on Prescott was Duncan Letts about causing several diplomatic incidents in Glasgow, a cross between Les Dawson and Sir Les Patterson.....
I'm still intrigued; how do you know when it's time to pretend to be unable to post here any more, then return within hours as one of your many alter egos?
"In a turbulent transition, who might prevail? The dreamers? Or the men with the money?"
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/10/scotland-yes-campaign-snp-pollyannas
I do feel we've crossed something of a rubicon. If Scotland votes no, it is heading for a great deal of autonomy.
My fear is this leads to constitutional chaos because, as I mentioned last night, the WLQ becomes even more of a headache. Plus, without wanting to put too fine a point on it, there is a view among some in England that Scotland gets a cushy deal. It's going to look to that observer that the deal will be even cushier following a no vote.
We don't need new powers for Scotland being 'rushed in'. If they stay in the union on the basis that the UK government has promised more power, there needs to be a constitutional convention of the whole of the UK to work out how it functions best in terms of legislation/representation/government formation at the centre. Though what possible option there is, I'm not sure.
The usual suspects (I note Gordon has his hands all over this - though the Tories have completely gone along with him, so I'm not exempting them from the criticism) have done their usual tactic of looking at the short term, promising more power and kicking the can down the road for a couple more years until it all blows up again. The lack of vision and weakness of our political class is embarrassing.
And he doesn't get bumped off the Westminster Hour 'cos something more interesting turned up.
You stupid fanny.