Slackbadder Unlike a marriage the Scots have never loved the English, polls have shown Devomax more popular than independence or status quo, if moves towards that then sensible
I might be being a bit thick here, but are you saying if the Scots want DevoMax then we should give it to them? If so may I refer you to your first sentence and ask, "Why? What is in it for us?"
And "bluffing on Currency union" Is up to 51 from 42
It is going to be a rude awakening when it is shown not to be a bluff. The Scots cannot say they were not warned!
They will be bounced into the euro. Pretty sure it will be a condition of them getting back into the EU anyway. Salmond knows this, but he's unable to admit it because he can't fight a referendum on independence and going into the euro at the same time. He's got away with it because No have had their hands tied -the No parties can't attack on Europe as they all support it.
Has anyone warned Warren Buffet that SeanT is playing the financial markets ?
And has anyone explained to our bewailing BritNat that he could hedge his finances by betting on a YES vote and/or on Cameron resigning , both on which he seems confident off.
You seem oddly irritated that I have been proved right about almost everything.
Speaking of being always right, or wrong, it's a shame tim isn't here. He used to scoff very loudly at the idea Scots would ever vote YES, when I suggested it was clearly possible.
His reputation as a political soothsayer is unjustified.
Not irritated but amused.
If I had a vote I would vote YES so winding up bewailing BritNats is as much fun as poking a monkey in a cage would have been to people a few centuries ago.
And I'll point out that you haven't been proved right about anything yet.
I'll further point out that your "the pound might fall, interest rates might rise, the stock market might crash, house prices might be affected" is a typical outburst of the metropolitan mindset which you otherwise blame for causing the present situation.
Carmichael seems to be walking back expectation of this offer. It's just a restatement of existing party plans for further devolution - there is nothing radical at all.
Who's to blame - hard to say but it's ironic that the Conservative party is the 'Conservative and Unionist Party'. Salmond has payed a blinder since he equated BetterTogether with the Tories - hate is a powerful emotion!!
What is calamity Clegg thinking now - is the coalition worth the break-up of the Union....
Tim Reid @TimReidBBC 59 mins Whitehall source clarifying Osborne's "slightly ambiguous" offer - "what he's not saying is that a detailed final package has been agreed"
Although PB seems to gave conceded that yes wins.... It's still only a 31% chance according to the odds!!
I don't think that it has been conceded by PB. I think that No are still ahead and can win if they hold their nerve. SeanT is panicking like Corporal Jones, when a steady nerve is required.
Alistair Yes, but the message of those plans for further devolution may not have got through, the key is the genie is now out of the bottle, there will be no going back
Yes, true but nobody seems to be saying that. In any event that is an option that is always open to us and in the event of Sottish Independence will, almost, come as part of the package.
The DevoMax or Federalist option needs to be clearly set out and voted upon by all the people it affects. Any party that tries to use it as a bribe for the Scots to stay within the Union but without considering the needs and sensibilities of the English will, rightly, get hammered.
Nobody is putting up a positive case for the Union, probably because there isn't one, and I am damned if I can see why the English should be further disadvantaged for the sake of keeping the wretched thing.
HurstLlama Prominent Tory backbenchers like John Redwood have begun pushing English votes for English laws, if there is Devomax, they will hammer Cameron to ensure he includes that in the conversation.
TheWatcher That will also help resolve any English anger which emerges over further powers and concessions to Scotland
Well I am off to the Airshow , lovely sunny day and should be nice to see Vulcan , Lancaster, etc. last airshow as a British subject , next one I will be a free man.
Awwww ... how nice it would be to see a Vulcan flying again.
I once did a driving training day which included some track work at Bruntingthorpe, where the Vulcan was based, at one point we had to pull over to allow it to land. Awesome - from about as close up as you can get.
Lucky you!
I once got to see the inside of a Vulcan cockpit BTW (on an open day at the National Museum of Flight at East Fortune near North Berwick). Astonishingly small, especially for long subsonic missions - notably the Falklands raids (the NMF plane was one of them and still has the Brazilian flag from its unplanned trip to SA).
The last lines may be the best indicator of what's happening in Scotland just now.
'Bloody hell, if you’re going to jump I’ll jump too. Even if it is a long way down.'
I couldn't agree with you more. But lets hope enough of the jumpers can still be talked down.
Congratulations, you managed a whole post without mentioning the EU.
Do you think Farage and UKIP's sole elected representative in Scotland, Coburn, are the chaps to do the talking down?
They're not the ideal messengers, but they are the only ones with the message. Yes shrivels before the truth of the 'EU' argument you unsurprisingly bitch about. It exposes all their 'anti-establishment' b****cks as the hot air it is. Hence the nationalists being terrified letting Farage speak north of the border.
Why so little cyberspace was given to Panelbase which usually gives YES a better score ?
Because it is more of the same? But the apparent paradox is in fact discussed on Scotgoespop with, as far as I can see, some pretty decent balance (to the extent that it was quoted by one of the resident unionists on PB).
And "bluffing on Currency union" Is up to 51 from 42
It is going to be a rude awakening when it is shown not to be a bluff. The Scots cannot say they were not warned!
Why should Cameron & Osborne be telling the truth now? Why are they expected to have changed the habits of a lifetime?
You conveniently forget Miliband, Clegg, Balls in your silly little list. Reminder - if the Scots vote yes it'll be on the backs of Labour voters in Scotland deserting their side.
HurstLlama Prominent Tory backbenchers like John Redwood have begun pushing English votes for English laws, if there is Devomax, they will hammer Cameron to ensure he includes that in the conversation.
TheWatcher That will also help resolve any English anger which emerges over further powers and concessions to Scotland
Full respect, Mr. Hyfud, but in the timescales we are talking about Redwood and Cameron are probably irrelevant. Of course, that may not have been the case if only they had discovered the need to address those nasty big problems, like EVEL, earlier.
We've done this. The Blairites are Cameroons and the Cameroons are Blairites, with barely a fag paper between their policies (even if the supporting rhetoric differs).
About Heywood, its one of the more wealthy areas of greater manchester, UKIP will struggle to win there despite the sizable Tory, LD and BNP vote.
My prediction is: LAB 50 UKIP 25-30 CON 10-15 LD lost deposit.
There is a chance that if the Liberals put a candidate there they might beat the LDs, its one of the few areas where they had a presence post alliance merger, the last time they stood in 2005 they got 3.5%.
surbiton Panelbase was mentioned on the BBC news web report, ie will get through to the people who matter, the non political geeks who could still be swayed
About Heywood, its one of the more wealthy areas of greater manchester, UKIP will struggle to win there despite the sizable Tory, LD and BNP vote.
My prediction is: LAB 50 UKIP 25-30 CON 10-15 LD lost deposit.
There is a chance that if the Liberals put a candidate there they might beat the LDs, its one of the few areas where they had a presence post alliance merger, the last time they stood in 2005 they got 3.5%.
Really? Middleton is a hole. I thought that the wealth in there was outside Bury. Otherwise the money's in South Manchester.
As said below very unlikely Wales will vote for independence any time soon. Not only are there the economic facts, but also Wales has a very different demographics to Scotland. 20% plus of the population in Wales are English, this is a trend that looks to be continuing. As most of the people moving here are pensioners this may also explain the slow uptick in support for the Conservatives. Far from moving apart from England, in terms of political preference Wales seems to be slowly becoming more aligned. (see also UKIP performance in Wales).
And "bluffing on Currency union" Is up to 51 from 42
It is going to be a rude awakening when it is shown not to be a bluff. The Scots cannot say they were not warned!
If Yes wins then Salmond will adopt the pound. There will be some form of agreement over some aspects of the practicalities of this (e.g. will we object to the Scotch Pound being called a pound?). Whatever the terms of that agreement Salmond will crow that it is a currency union and will be believed. So the awakening will never happen.
The last lines may be the best indicator of what's happening in Scotland just now.
'Bloody hell, if you’re going to jump I’ll jump too. Even if it is a long way down.'
I couldn't agree with you more. But lets hope enough of the jumpers can still be talked down.
Congratulations, you managed a whole post without mentioning the EU.
Do you think Farage and UKIP's sole elected representative in Scotland, Coburn, are the chaps to do the talking down?
They're not the ideal messengers, but they are the only ones with the message. Yes shrivels before the truth of the 'EU' argument you unsurprisingly bitch about. It exposes all their 'anti-establishment' b****cks as the hot air it is. Hence the nationalists being terrified letting Farage speak north of the border.
Not ideal? Lol. What's your estimate of the size of the inevitable dip in Yes support caused by Farage's visit?
tessyc Indeed Wales only backed devolution in 1999 by 50.3% to 49.7% and there are more Tory MPs in Wales than in inner London or the North East of England. Wales and England were one kingdom centuries before Scotland joined the union
tessyc Indeed Wales only backed devolution in 1999 by 50.3% to 49.7% and there are more Tory MPs in Wales than in inner London or the North East of England. Wales and England were one kingdom centuries before Scotland joined the union
tessyc Indeed Wales only backed devolution in 1999 by 50.3% to 49.7% and there are more Tory MPs in Wales than in inner London or the North East of England. Wales and England were one kingdom centuries before Scotland joined the union
The Laws in Wales Act of 1536-7 were largely an administrative tidy up. Wales was annexed to the Kingdom of England in 1284 under the statue Rhuddlan. Even before then, much of south and East Wales was controlled by the Crown.
And "bluffing on Currency union" Is up to 51 from 42
It is going to be a rude awakening when it is shown not to be a bluff. The Scots cannot say they were not warned!
If Yes wins then Salmond will adopt the pound. There will be some form of agreement over some aspects of the practicalities of this (e.g. will we object to the Scotch Pound being called a pound?). Whatever the terms of that agreement Salmond will crow that it is a currency union and will be believed. So the awakening will never happen.
It will when they realise the results of currency union - Westminster sign off on Scotland's tax and spending plans. There is no agreement possible without this.
Mr. T, it depends what the offer is, and what England gets. Are we to heap power upon Holyrood whilst having MPs from north of the border voting on English matters? That's unacceptable, but would be very helpful for UKIP.
SeanT Exactly right, although Panelbase still has No narrowly ahead there should be devomax and English vote for English laws, there is now no alternative
Political news from Canada. First up, Jim Prentice has won the Tory leadership election in Alberta by a landslide with a promise of a new start and to clean up politics. You would think that if the Albertans wanted a new start, they wouldn't keep voting for the Tories, but not much chance of that.
Second, the Quebec provincial govt wants to sign up to a revised constitutional settlement by 2017. Meanwhile the federal govt has no plans to open constitutional negotiations. Le Ref Indy by 2020?
Lastly, the latest Scottish polls are making the TV news over here - I'm sure the constitutional similarities are not escaping the Canadian public. Anyway, back to the maple syrup cookies...
tessyc Indeed Wales only backed devolution in 1999 by 50.3% to 49.7% and there are more Tory MPs in Wales than in inner London or the North East of England. Wales and England were one kingdom centuries before Scotland joined the union
I have already said that Quebec will go, if Scotland shows the way.
That splits Canada into two, a rich West (Ontario and the Oil) and a poor impoverished East (the maritimes, Newfoundland, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia), physically divided and split off from the rest of Canada by an independent Quebec.
What is the future for the poor maritimes?
My guess is the 51st, 52nd and 53rd states of the Union.
Given that we are contemplating a political revolution, and the death of our country, we might as well have some fun and think up some possible bizarre consequences, which now come into play.
I was driving my daughter through the streets of FUK's capital, just now, and I had this idea.
Suppose I'm right and Cameron resigns (I am right, btw) following a YES.
What if the next guy is Hammond, an apparently pukka eurosceptic?
What is to stop Hammond forging an electoral pact with Farage? Nothing, as far as I can see. This new Coalition would presumably romp home in 2015 against a demoralised party led by Ed "couldn't even save Govan" Miliband, and lacking dozens of Labour MPs from Scotland, booted out by smirking Nats.
So we could see a very eurosceptic Tory-UKIP government in 2015, running FUK. And gunning for Scotland, and aiming to quit the EU.
We live in VERY interesting times.
It's quite likely that Hammond was the unnamed cabinet minister that told the Guardian that 'of course there'll be a currency union'.
It all depends on this offer of Federalism. If it's done properly, and generously, then everyone gains - and Scotland will vote NO.
If it's hedged and cack handed then it will probably be YES.
There will not and can not be any change in the "No" offering, they've nailed their colours to the mast and argued their case for the past 3 years. To blink now and offer more would be fatal. It'd be an admission of impending defeat. They can't take a step back.
Their only chance it to stand firm and hope for the best.
Er, Osborne has just been on The Telly saying there will be a new offering next week. Ditto Brown.
It probably won't work - but they are definitely cooking up something.
What happened to the requirement to respect the official 'purdah' during the official campaign?
(Statutory for Scottish ministers and local bodies under the Scottish Referendum Act, matched by Cameron in the Edinburgh Agreement)
It all depends on this offer of Federalism. If it's done properly, and generously, then everyone gains - and Scotland will vote NO.
If it's hedged and cack handed then it will probably be YES.
There will not and can not be any change in the "No" offering, they've nailed their colours to the mast and argued their case for the past 3 years. To blink now and offer more would be fatal. It'd be an admission of impending defeat. They can't take a step back.
Their only chance it to stand firm and hope for the best.
Er, Osborne has just been on The Telly saying there will be a new offering next week. Ditto Brown.
It probably won't work - but they are definitely cooking up something.
What happened to the requirement to respect the official 'purdah' during the official campaign?
(Statutory for Scottish ministers and local bodies under the Scottish Referendum Act, matched by Cameron in the Edinburgh Agreement)
Particularly after 10s if not 100s of thousands of postal voters have voted. What prospectus did they cast their votes upon?
Given that we are contemplating a political revolution, and the death of our country, we might as well have some fun and think up some possible bizarre consequences, which now come into play.
I was driving my daughter through the streets of FUK's capital, just now, and I had this idea.
Suppose I'm right and Cameron resigns (I am right, btw) following a YES.
What if the next guy is Hammond, an apparently pukka eurosceptic?
What is to stop Hammond forging an electoral pact with Farage? Nothing, as far as I can see. This new Coalition would presumably romp home in 2015 against a demoralised party led by Ed "couldn't even save Govan" Miliband, and lacking dozens of Labour MPs from Scotland, booted out by smirking Nats.
So we could see a very eurosceptic Tory-UKIP government in 2015, running FUK. And gunning for Scotland, and aiming to quit the EU.
We live in VERY interesting times.
It's quite likely that Hammond was the unnamed cabinet minister that told the Guardian that 'of course there'll be a currency union'.
I have already said that Quebec will go, if Scotland shows the way.
That splits Canada into two, a rich West (Ontario and the Oil) and a poor impoverished East (the maritimes, Newfoundland, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia), physically divided and split off from the rest of Canada by an independent Quebec.
What is the future for the poor maritimes?
My guess is the 51st, 52nd and 53rd states of the Union.
Imagine being a Unionist and relying on Cameron, Osborne, Miliband, and the like. No more powers,no wait some powers, ok how about DevoMax? And this lot is your choice in 2015. Rule Britannia.
So are we basically in a position where, to avoid a Yes vote, DevoMax is being offered without it being voted for in a referendum. The referendum then becomes more like what was asked in Crimea, no no status quo option on the ballot.
The first minister is on the news here as I type...
Mr. Rentool, we don't know for certain what will be offered (that'll be next week). If it's simply more power for Holyrood that's unacceptable complacency where England is concerned.
I have already said that Quebec will go, if Scotland shows the way.
That splits Canada into two, a rich West (Ontario and the Oil) and a poor impoverished East (the maritimes, Newfoundland, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia), physically divided and split off from the rest of Canada by an independent Quebec.
What is the future for the poor maritimes?
My guess is the 51st, 52nd and 53rd states of the Union.
And PEI?
Newfoundland only became part of Canada in 1947, it and the maratimes could just go back to being that Dominion, though I expect that they would remain part of Canada. All of these places are distinct from the USA and have distinctive histories, with a significant number of descendants from Loyalists who left the newly independent USA.
It is also unclear whether Catalonia will vote for independence in November. Mostly they want increased autonomy, as per the Basque country.
For the many doubters, this is just one reason why Cammo would Do The Decent Thing after a No.
"THE Queen has “a great deal of concern” that Scotland will vote for independence and is receiving daily updates on the situation, The Sunday Times can reveal. Palace aides, ministers and MPs close to the royal family said the Queen was a firm unionist and revealed that the prospect of a “yes” vote “horrifies” her household."
Imagine his audiences with the Q after the 18th. Psychologically intolerable. He would resign for that reason alone.
Imagine his meetings with foreign leaders: "Tell us about how you were appointed the PM of the UK and then allowed it to break apart after 300 years Dave ..." . Internationally and domestically he will be a severely diminished, humiliated figure. And what a weight to bear. The PM who lost the Union. Too much; much too much.
For the many doubters, this is just one reason why Cammo would Do The Decent Thing after a No.
"THE Queen has “a great deal of concern” that Scotland will vote for independence and is receiving daily updates on the situation, The Sunday Times can reveal. Palace aides, ministers and MPs close to the royal family said the Queen was a firm unionist and revealed that the prospect of a “yes” vote “horrifies” her household."
Imagine his audiences with the Q after the 18th. Psychologically intolerable. He would resign for that reason alone.
The Queen will be Queen of Scotland whichever way it goes. She is also used to tolerating the unacceptable, after all she has had Cherie Booth as a house guest and Mugabe for dinner. She can sit it out until after May 2015. She can then enjoy tea with the lovely Ed.
For the many doubters, this is just one reason why Cammo would Do The Decent Thing after a No.
"THE Queen has “a great deal of concern” that Scotland will vote for independence and is receiving daily updates on the situation, The Sunday Times can reveal. Palace aides, ministers and MPs close to the royal family said the Queen was a firm unionist and revealed that the prospect of a “yes” vote “horrifies” her household."
Imagine his audiences with the Q after the 18th. Psychologically intolerable. He would resign for that reason alone.
The Queen will be Queen of Scotland whichever way it goes. She is also used to tolerating the unacceptable, after all she has had Cherie Booth as a house guest and Mugabe for dinner. She can sit it out until after May 2015. She can then enjoy tea with the lovely Ed.
It all depends on this offer of Federalism. If it's done properly, and generously, then everyone gains - and Scotland will vote NO.
If it's hedged and cack handed then it will probably be YES.
There will not and can not be any change in the "No" offering, they've nailed their colours to the mast and argued their case for the past 3 years. To blink now and offer more would be fatal. It'd be an admission of impending defeat. They can't take a step back.
Their only chance it to stand firm and hope for the best.
Er, Osborne has just been on The Telly saying there will be a new offering next week. Ditto Brown.
It probably won't work - but they are definitely cooking up something.
What happened to the requirement to respect the official 'purdah' during the official campaign?
(Statutory for Scottish ministers and local bodies under the Scottish Referendum Act, matched by Cameron in the Edinburgh Agreement)
Particularly after 10s if not 100s of thousands of postal voters have voted. What prospectus did they cast their votes upon?
I imagine the FUK government will invite you to sue them, after the referendum. If you win the vote you'll have no chance in the courts, if you lose, HMG of FUK won't care.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/all-over-the-place/#more-61368 has more detail on the purdah issue - including the relevant texts - and notes that the No campaign were very keen to use the purdah argument as a justification for not having a second replay of the Salmond vs Darling debate, how shocking to have the debate after postal vting has begun, etc. etc.
For the many doubters, this is just one reason why Cammo would Do The Decent Thing after a No.
"THE Queen has “a great deal of concern” that Scotland will vote for independence and is receiving daily updates on the situation, The Sunday Times can reveal. Palace aides, ministers and MPs close to the royal family said the Queen was a firm unionist and revealed that the prospect of a “yes” vote “horrifies” her household."
Imagine his audiences with the Q after the 18th. Psychologically intolerable. He would resign for that reason alone.
Incidentally the betfair exchange leaders market has some interesting odds (though not much liquidity) on who will be in place at the next election, including 100 on none of them, and 30 on Ed on his own. Laying all 3 being in place is 1.46. DYOR...
MD - but the point remains that the status quo is not on offer. It would have been if Cammo had accepted a 2-question referendum.
A two question referendum was never on the table. In the referendum consultation perofmed by the Scottish government a clear majority (60%+) wanted a single Yes-No question on the ballot paper.
Salmond never went into the negotiations wanting a 3 answer ballot, this is one of the biggest myths of the entire referendum process.
Comments
Yes means 41 seats loss for Labour
No means angry nats will win all the Scottish seats in 2015
Another 41 seats lost by Labour.
If I had a vote I would vote YES so winding up bewailing BritNats is as much fun as poking a monkey in a cage would have been to people a few centuries ago.
And I'll point out that you haven't been proved right about anything yet.
I'll further point out that your "the pound might fall, interest rates might rise, the stock market might crash, house prices might be affected" is a typical outburst of the metropolitan mindset which you otherwise blame for causing the present situation.
Who's to blame - hard to say but it's ironic that the Conservative party is the 'Conservative and Unionist Party'. Salmond has payed a blinder since he equated BetterTogether with the Tories - hate is a powerful emotion!!
What is calamity Clegg thinking now - is the coalition worth the break-up of the Union....
Tim Reid @TimReidBBC 59 mins
Whitehall source clarifying Osborne's "slightly ambiguous" offer - "what he's not saying is that a detailed final package has been agreed"
"MPs told: to get ahead, forget old left and right divisions and use the best ideas from both "
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mps-told-to-get-ahead-forget-the-old-left-and-right-divisions-and-use-the-best-ideas-from-both-9716588.html
'Why should Cameron & Osborne be telling the truth now? Why are they expected to have changed the habits of a lifetime?'
Or indeed Miliband or Clegg?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29100304
His constituency was Heywood & Middleton, next door to Rochdale.
Lab 40.1%
Con 27.2%
LD 22.7%
BNP 7.0%
UKIP 2.6%
Ind 0.4%
'Come in Britain, your time is up.'
http://tinyurl.com/pgt9oel
The last lines may be the best indicator of what's happening in Scotland just now.
'Bloody hell, if you’re going to jump I’ll jump too. Even if it is a long way down.'
He was MP for Newbury from 1993 to 2005.
White 92%
Asian 5%
Mixed 1.5%
Black 1%
The English won't stand for it.
The DevoMax or Federalist option needs to be clearly set out and voted upon by all the people it affects. Any party that tries to use it as a bribe for the Scots to stay within the Union but without considering the needs and sensibilities of the English will, rightly, get hammered.
Nobody is putting up a positive case for the Union, probably because there isn't one, and I am damned if I can see why the English should be further disadvantaged for the sake of keeping the wretched thing.
Do you think Farage and UKIP's sole elected representative in Scotland, Coburn, are the chaps to do the talking down?
TheWatcher That will also help resolve any English anger which emerges over further powers and concessions to Scotland
I once got to see the inside of a Vulcan cockpit BTW (on an open day at the National Museum of Flight at East Fortune near North Berwick). Astonishingly small, especially for long subsonic missions - notably the Falklands raids (the NMF plane was one of them and still has the Brazilian flag from its unplanned trip to SA).
https://mobile.twitter.com/search?q=Jim dobbin&s=typd
Events are quite often completely independent of each other.
You literally couldn't make it up.
My prediction is:
LAB 50
UKIP 25-30
CON 10-15
LD lost deposit.
There is a chance that if the Liberals put a candidate there they might beat the LDs, its one of the few areas where they had a presence post alliance merger, the last time they stood in 2005 they got 3.5%.
What's your estimate of the size of the inevitable dip in Yes support caused by Farage's visit?
By that, I mean it seems very peculiar to change your methodology now.
YouGov should have used the same methodology -- either the new one or the old one -- throughout.
Any methodology change is bound to cause a poll movement.
Any poll movement is likely to be newsworthy. This one was very newsworthy.
Is this usual? In polling before an general election, do pollsters routinely change their methodology ten days before the election?
1999 was the first election to the devolved Cardiff assembly.
The Laws in Wales Act of 1536-7 were largely an administrative tidy up. Wales was annexed to the Kingdom of England in 1284 under the statue Rhuddlan. Even before then, much of south and East Wales was controlled by the Crown.
Just writing the post-race piece.
I am sure that SeanT is not alone in wanting to protect his savings.
Second, the Quebec provincial govt wants to sign up to a revised constitutional settlement by 2017. Meanwhile the federal govt has no plans to open constitutional negotiations. Le Ref Indy by 2020?
Lastly, the latest Scottish polls are making the TV news over here - I'm sure the constitutional similarities are not escaping the Canadian public. Anyway, back to the maple syrup cookies...
I have already said that Quebec will go, if Scotland shows the way.
That splits Canada into two, a rich West (Ontario and the Oil) and a poor impoverished East (the maritimes, Newfoundland, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia), physically divided and split off from the rest of Canada by an independent Quebec.
What is the future for the poor maritimes?
My guess is the 51st, 52nd and 53rd states of the Union.
Edited extra bits: other separatists include the Catalans and Venice [and its environs].
(Statutory for Scottish ministers and local bodies under the Scottish Referendum Act, matched by Cameron in the Edinburgh Agreement)
http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/italy-post-race-analysis.html
Red race. Slightly annoyed. First race since Austria in June both Lotuses had a trouble-free race.
No more powers,no wait some powers, ok how about DevoMax?
And this lot is your choice in 2015.
Rule Britannia.
The first minister is on the news here as I type...
It is also unclear whether Catalonia will vote for independence in November. Mostly they want increased autonomy, as per the Basque country.
Salmond never went into the negotiations wanting a 3 answer ballot, this is one of the biggest myths of the entire referendum process.