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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The betting favourite for next CON leader and 2nd favourite

SystemSystem Posts: 11,689
edited September 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The betting favourite for next CON leader and 2nd favourite for next PM is in danger of falling at the first fence

We all know that the main impediment to Boris being Cameron’s successor is that he’s not an MP. That appeared to have been resolved a few weeks ago when he made it clear that he would seek to return to the Commons at GE2015.

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    First!
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    Perhaps this "feck the elite" atmosphere that is about will extend to Uxbridge?

    Who knows, perhaps "Prison Soap" too may have a rougher ride than his anticipated coronation....
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    Interesting blog post on "the gender gap" and whether it will close in time for Salmond:

    http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/2014/09/will-the-gender-gap-narrow-findings-from-2011-and-quebec/
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    If Uxbridge Tories do go for the local chap it will also make an interesting contrast to the imposition of "Nigel's bitch" Prison Soap Carswell over the heads of the locals in Clacton.....
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,598
    "Shoe-in"?

    Footpad!
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    MattW said:

    "Shoe-in"?

    Footpad!

    Some sub-editor is a shoo-in for a P45 (the Sun is usually a lot better than that, while the content is frequently atrocious, the writing quality is high).
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,760
    edited September 2014
    YESNP caught fibbing being a bit optimistic again:

    Claims of North Sea fracking boom a 'gross exaggeration', says leading geology professor
    David Macdonald, Professor of Petroleum Geology at Aberdeen University, urges voters not take take seriously latest report by N-56 think tank


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11076113/Claims-of-North-Sea-fracking-boom-a-gross-exaggeration-says-leading-geology-professor.html
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    Clacton by-election - best prices

    UKIP 1/10 (Betfair)
    Con 17/2 (Betfair)
    Lab 49/1 (Betfair)

    None of the bookies are offering good prices on any of the parties. Only drawback is that there is next to no liquidity at Betfair on that market. Nobody is interested yet.
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    Today's YouGov - Con & Lab voters least likely to change vote before May 2015:

    Definitely/probably vote:
    Con: 86
    Lab: 86
    LD: 75
    UKIP: 78

    http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/j8rehm7cqq/YG-Archive-Pol-Sun-results-040914.pdf

    Also Con have taken a big hit (14 (-6) ) on "moved on & left its past behind it" - blip, or Prison Soap?
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    The sum matched on Betfair's IndyRef market nears £3.1 million.

    Current best prices:

    Yes 7/2 (Betdaq, Betfair)
    No 3/10 (bwin)
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    That Con slump in "moved on" crosses parties:

    Succeeded in moving on and left its past behind it (vs Aug 20/21)
    Con: 42 (-11)
    Lab: 2 (-2)
    LD: 7 (-7)
    UKIP: 8 (-5)

    So it looks more "real" than a "funny".

    Thanks Mr Prison Soap....
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    I knew Ed had few fans in Scotland.

    What I didn't know is that he has even fewer fans than David Cameron in Scotland

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/04/ed-miliband-no-more-admired-scotland/
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916

    Today's YouGov - Con & Lab voters least likely to change vote before May 2015:

    Definitely/probably vote:
    Con: 86
    Lab: 86
    LD: 75
    UKIP: 78

    http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/j8rehm7cqq/YG-Archive-Pol-Sun-results-040914.pdf

    Also Con have taken a big hit (14 (-6) ) on "moved on & left its past behind it" - blip, or Prison Soap?

    Most least certain on how they will vote are Londoners and the Scots.
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    MattW said:

    "Shoe-in"?

    Footpad!

    Some sub-editor is a shoo-in for a P45 (the Sun is usually a lot better than that, while the content is frequently atrocious, the writing quality is high).
    Yes, if you're writing in a national paper you should be able to spell.
    Politically, Boris would be a shoo-in for next Tory leader if he held Clacton.
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    It's all going so well

    Ed Miliband arrived in Scotland proclaiming he would be Britain’s next prime minister, but left facing questions about whether he could be forced to resign as Labour leader if the Scots voted for independence.

    The fate of the No campaign now rests largely on whether Mr Miliband, Labour party workers on the doorstep and other big names including Mr Brown can seize back the initiative and bring back the Labour vote.

    In this increasingly raw street-by-street battle between the Yes and No sides – fought predominantly but not exclusively in the Glasgow conurbation – there is little role for Mr Cameron.


    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/185428fe-3448-11e4-b81c-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3CPwJ6UPX
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    Financier said:

    Today's YouGov - Con & Lab voters least likely to change vote before May 2015:

    Definitely/probably vote:
    Con: 86
    Lab: 86
    LD: 75
    UKIP: 78

    http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/j8rehm7cqq/YG-Archive-Pol-Sun-results-040914.pdf

    Also Con have taken a big hit (14 (-6) ) on "moved on & left its past behind it" - blip, or Prison Soap?

    Most least certain on how they will vote are Londoners and the Scots.
    The Scots may not be voting at all in May 2015......
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,320
    So the Panelbase poll with Yes in the lead was just another Yes fantasy then? Bit like having a currency or an army or a tertiary education system that can live without English fees or....

    Well that's a relief.

    I would be very grateful if AndyJS explained the basis of his spreadsheet produced on the previous thread. I am not aware of any polling or analysis which would allow a breakdown or prediction by local authority district so it is presumably based on election results.

    On the last point a friend of mine's son did not do as well as hoped in his exams. He has been trying to find a place in clearing. Basically he could get one if he contrived to have an English address and would pay fees. As a Scot in his desired area (business management) there are simply no places available with his results. The negative effect of "free" university education is becoming a major problem for Scots.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,320

    I knew Ed had few fans in Scotland.

    What I didn't know is that he has even fewer fans than David Cameron in Scotland

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/04/ed-miliband-no-more-admired-scotland/

    One of the major reasons that the Labour vote, and hence the result, is in play is that Scots that way inclined look at Ed and wonder if he would be any improvement on the Conservative government. He looks and sounds completely alien to them, their concerns and their aspirations.

    With a strong UK Labour leadership No would already be home and hosed. It has been a problem throughout the campaign.
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    DavidL said:

    I knew Ed had few fans in Scotland.

    What I didn't know is that he has even fewer fans than David Cameron in Scotland

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/04/ed-miliband-no-more-admired-scotland/

    One of the major reasons that the Labour vote, and hence the result, is in play is that Scots that way inclined look at Ed and wonder if he would be any improvement on the Conservative government. He looks and sounds completely alien to them, their concerns and their aspirations.

    With a strong UK Labour leadership No would already be home and hosed. It has been a problem throughout the campaign.
    It is even more of a problem for Labour. A long time ago Harold Wilson said "Labour is a moral crusade or it is nothing". Under its sundry leaders since the late John Smith, it has indeed dwindled to nothing.

    Instead of which we have - apparently within as well as beyond the Labour Party - the notion that greed is good because at least it lifts us above the - potentially murderous - level of fear-driven identity politics.

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    DavidL said:

    I knew Ed had few fans in Scotland.

    What I didn't know is that he has even fewer fans than David Cameron in Scotland

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/04/ed-miliband-no-more-admired-scotland/

    He looks and sounds completely alien to them, their concerns and their aspirations.
    A North London multimillionaire intellectual resident of Dartmouth Park?

    Where do these voters live?

    Fintry?

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    DavidL said:

    I knew Ed had few fans in Scotland.

    What I didn't know is that he has even fewer fans than David Cameron in Scotland

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/04/ed-miliband-no-more-admired-scotland/

    One of the major reasons that the Labour vote, and hence the result, is in play is that Scots that way inclined look at Ed and wonder if he would be any improvement on the Conservative government. He looks and sounds completely alien to them, their concerns and their aspirations.

    With a strong UK Labour leadership No would already be home and hosed. It has been a problem throughout the campaign.
    This is because Milibande is an utter utter pussy. What Malc might call a jessie. And what I might call drip with the breaking strain of a wet kitkat.

    I have a suspicion that the Scots are, on the whole, less inclined to offer political support to pussies than the English. Left or right they seem to me to prefer something a bit more of the 'hard man' politico. Hell, they even had some time for Gordon Brown (deranged, vindictive, blind, narcissistic, stupid, arrogant - but not by any means a drip). SLAB has been 'hard' in a machine politics sort of way for ages. Eck is something of a dictator / Alpha male personality. I suspect the infection of political correctness may have less traction in Scotland than the UK as a whole. And this is a good thing. I admire the desire of many Scots to be independent.

    But Redward? Well he's a blancmange. An English lisping bucktoothed blancmange into the bargain. Of course they hate him. And Dave. And Clegg (who scores roughly 11 out of 10 on the metrosexual wincing mincing floppy nancyboy PC idiot gimp scale).
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    Another place for the South Yorkshire plods to apply their famed 'community cohesion' abilities:

    http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/crime/video-calls-for-meeting-with-roma-leaders-over-unrest-in-hexthorpe-1-6822768

    I wonder if any of the PB cheerleaders of the PPEocrachy could explain how allowing unlimited immigration from the poorest parts of Europe to one of the poorest districts in one of the poorest boroughs of England benefits this country ?
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    Patrick said:

    DavidL said:

    I knew Ed had few fans in Scotland.

    What I didn't know is that he has even fewer fans than David Cameron in Scotland

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/04/ed-miliband-no-more-admired-scotland/

    One of the major reasons that the Labour vote, and hence the result, is in play is that Scots that way inclined look at Ed and wonder if he would be any improvement on the Conservative government. He looks and sounds completely alien to them, their concerns and their aspirations.

    With a strong UK Labour leadership No would already be home and hosed. It has been a problem throughout the campaign.
    This is because Milibande is an utter utter pussy. What Malc might call a jessie. And what I might call drip with the breaking strain of a wet kitkat.

    I have a suspicion that the Scots are, on the whole, less inclined to offer political support to pussies than the English. Left or right they seem to me to prefer something a bit more of the 'hard man' politico. Hell, they even had some time for Gordon Brown (deranged, vindictive, blind, narcissistic, stupid, arrogant - but not by any means a drip). SLAB has been 'hard' in a machine politics sort of way for ages. Eck is something of a dictator / Alpha male personality. I suspect the infection of political correctness may have less traction in Scotland than the UK as a whole. And this is a good thing. I admire the desire of many Scots to be independent.

    But Redward? Well he's a blancmange. An English lisping bucktoothed blancmange into the bargain. Of course they hate him. And Dave. And Clegg (who scores roughly 11 out of 10 on the metrosexual wincing mincing floppy nancyboy PC idiot gimp scale).
    Real men get into fights on Saturday nights, eh, Patrick?

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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    YouGov

    Today's Labour retention of 77% of their 2010 VI is their lowest figure this year.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited September 2014

    Patrick said:

    DavidL said:

    I knew Ed had few fans in Scotland.

    What I didn't know is that he has even fewer fans than David Cameron in Scotland

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/04/ed-miliband-no-more-admired-scotland/

    One of the major reasons that the Labour vote, and hence the result, is in play is that Scots that way inclined look at Ed and wonder if he would be any improvement on the Conservative government. He looks and sounds completely alien to them, their concerns and their aspirations.

    With a strong UK Labour leadership No would already be home and hosed. It has been a problem throughout the campaign.
    This is because Milibande is an utter utter pussy. What Malc might call a jessie. And what I might call drip with the breaking strain of a wet kitkat.

    I have a suspicion that the Scots are, on the whole, less inclined to offer political support to pussies than the English. Left or right they seem to me to prefer something a bit more of the 'hard man' politico. Hell, they even had some time for Gordon Brown (deranged, vindictive, blind, narcissistic, stupid, arrogant - but not by any means a drip). SLAB has been 'hard' in a machine politics sort of way for ages. Eck is something of a dictator / Alpha male personality. I suspect the infection of political correctness may have less traction in Scotland than the UK as a whole. And this is a good thing. I admire the desire of many Scots to be independent.

    But Redward? Well he's a blancmange. An English lisping bucktoothed blancmange into the bargain. Of course they hate him. And Dave. And Clegg (who scores roughly 11 out of 10 on the metrosexual wincing mincing floppy nancyboy PC idiot gimp scale).
    Real men get into fights on Saturday nights, eh, Patrick?

    Did I say that? They do have clear and sensible political convictions, say what they think, and are prepared to act accordingly. I doubt very much if any of Maggie, Ronnie, Churchill, Gandhi, Mandela, or any number of admirable political leaders (of very varying political persausions) got into fights on a Saturday. There's surely a world of difference between expressing strength and expressing violence.
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    youngchap7youngchap7 Posts: 1
    edited September 2014
    Boris has a mandate to serve as Mayor of London until 2016. He could just about get away with serving the last year of his term as an MP in a London constituency following Ken's precedent but two years serving as MP for Clacton, right out on the Essex coast?
    Can't see that working out too well and might force a by-election for the mayoralty - surely something the Tories would be desperate to avoid?
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,013
    DavidL said:

    I knew Ed had few fans in Scotland.

    What I didn't know is that he has even fewer fans than David Cameron in Scotland

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/04/ed-miliband-no-more-admired-scotland/

    One of the major reasons that the Labour vote, and hence the result, is in play is that Scots that way inclined look at Ed and wonder if he would be any improvement on the Conservative government. He looks and sounds completely alien to them, their concerns and their aspirations.

    With a strong UK Labour leadership No would already be home and hosed. It has been a problem throughout the campaign.
    He is so bad I would vote Tory before voting for him. He comes across badly , always looks like he is looking down his nose at you sneering. Fact e is lying does not help mind you.
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    The sum matched on Betfair's IndyRef market nears £3.1 million.

    Current best prices:

    Yes 7/2 (Betdaq, Betfair)
    No 3/10 (bwin)

    Where's your money Stuart?

    I still haven't given up on YES and am maintaining a balance all green book on Betfair. Whatever the outcome I make a few hundred
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,013
    Patrick said:

    DavidL said:

    I knew Ed had few fans in Scotland.

    What I didn't know is that he has even fewer fans than David Cameron in Scotland

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/04/ed-miliband-no-more-admired-scotland/

    One of the major reasons that the Labour vote, and hence the result, is in play is that Scots that way inclined look at Ed and wonder if he would be any improvement on the Conservative government. He looks and sounds completely alien to them, their concerns and their aspirations.

    With a strong UK Labour leadership No would already be home and hosed. It has been a problem throughout the campaign.
    This is because Milibande is an utter utter pussy. What Malc might call a jessie. And what I might call drip with the breaking strain of a wet kitkat.

    I have a suspicion that the Scots are, on the whole, less inclined to offer political support to pussies than the English. Left or right they seem to me to prefer something a bit more of the 'hard man' politico. Hell, they even had some time for Gordon Brown (deranged, vindictive, blind, narcissistic, stupid, arrogant - but not by any means a drip). SLAB has been 'hard' in a machine politics sort of way for ages. Eck is something of a dictator / Alpha male personality. I suspect the infection of political correctness may have less traction in Scotland than the UK as a whole. And this is a good thing. I admire the desire of many Scots to be independent.

    But Redward? Well he's a blancmange. An English lisping bucktoothed blancmange into the bargain. Of course they hate him. And Dave. And Clegg (who scores roughly 11 out of 10 on the metrosexual wincing mincing floppy nancyboy PC idiot gimp scale).
    Patrick , we agree entirely , how odd.
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    malcolmg said:

    Patrick said:

    DavidL said:

    I knew Ed had few fans in Scotland.

    What I didn't know is that he has even fewer fans than David Cameron in Scotland

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/04/ed-miliband-no-more-admired-scotland/

    One of the major reasons that the Labour vote, and hence the result, is in play is that Scots that way inclined look at Ed and wonder if he would be any improvement on the Conservative government. He looks and sounds completely alien to them, their concerns and their aspirations.

    With a strong UK Labour leadership No would already be home and hosed. It has been a problem throughout the campaign.
    This is because Milibande is an utter utter pussy. What Malc might call a jessie. And what I might call drip with the breaking strain of a wet kitkat.

    I have a suspicion that the Scots are, on the whole, less inclined to offer political support to pussies than the English. Left or right they seem to me to prefer something a bit more of the 'hard man' politico. Hell, they even had some time for Gordon Brown (deranged, vindictive, blind, narcissistic, stupid, arrogant - but not by any means a drip). SLAB has been 'hard' in a machine politics sort of way for ages. Eck is something of a dictator / Alpha male personality. I suspect the infection of political correctness may have less traction in Scotland than the UK as a whole. And this is a good thing. I admire the desire of many Scots to be independent.

    But Redward? Well he's a blancmange. An English lisping bucktoothed blancmange into the bargain. Of course they hate him. And Dave. And Clegg (who scores roughly 11 out of 10 on the metrosexual wincing mincing floppy nancyboy PC idiot gimp scale).
    Patrick , we agree entirely , how odd.
    We agree on many many things Malc - apart from how independence would impact Scotland.
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    A little embarrassing for the local MPs. I think we all know which end of the local pay scale Ed, Rosie and Caroline are at. Interesting how Labour MPs are so much better at getting rich themselves than they are at enriching their constituents.

    " it found that the employment and pay situation in Doncaster was among the worst in the whole of the country.

    Statistics revealed that, in the town, one in four workers earned less than two-thirds of the median national wage, and that Doncaster also fared badly when it came to differences between high- and low-pay occupations.

    The town was ranked bottom of a list of more than 60 UK towns and cities with the number of low-paid workers showing the greatest gap from highly-paid workers. "

    http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/doncaster-workers-among-lowest-paid-in-the-country-1-6823308
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    Patrick said:

    Patrick said:

    DavidL said:

    I knew Ed had few fans in Scotland.

    What I didn't know is that he has even fewer fans than David Cameron in Scotland

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/04/ed-miliband-no-more-admired-scotland/

    One of the major reasons that the Labour vote, and hence the result, is in play is that Scots that way inclined look at Ed and wonder if he would be any improvement on the Conservative government. He looks and sounds completely alien to them, their concerns and their aspirations.

    With a strong UK Labour leadership No would already be home and hosed. It has been a problem throughout the campaign.
    This is because Milibande is an utter utter pussy. What Malc might call a jessie. And what I might call drip with the breaking strain of a wet kitkat.

    I have a suspicion that the Scots are, on the whole, less inclined to offer political support to pussies than the English. Left or right they seem to me to prefer something a bit more of the 'hard man' politico. Hell, they even had some time for Gordon Brown (deranged, vindictive, blind, narcissistic, stupid, arrogant - but not by any means a drip). SLAB has been 'hard' in a machine politics sort of way for ages. Eck is something of a dictator / Alpha male personality. I suspect the infection of political correctness may have less traction in Scotland than the UK as a whole. And this is a good thing. I admire the desire of many Scots to be independent.

    But Redward? Well he's a blancmange. An English lisping bucktoothed blancmange into the bargain. Of course they hate him. And Dave. And Clegg (who scores roughly 11 out of 10 on the metrosexual wincing mincing floppy nancyboy PC idiot gimp scale).
    Real men get into fights on Saturday nights, eh, Patrick?

    Did I say that? They do have clear and sensible political convictions, say what they think, and are prepared to act accordingly. I doubt very much if any of Maggie, Ronnie, Churchill, Gandhi, Mandela, or any number of admirable political leaders (of very varying political persausions) got into fights on a Saturday. There's surely a world of difference between expressing strength and expressing violence.
    Well, I agree there is a considerable difference between strength and violence, but hope that you in your turn would acknowledge that that difference can easily get lost in the hurly-burly of the dirty world that is politics. (Incidentally, I doubt that many people who admired Thatcher or Reagan also in truth admired Gandhi or Mandela. But then, I always saw Thatcher as a bully herself.)

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    As if Prison Soap Carswell hasn't done enough damage:

    David Cameron could face a leadership challenge from his own backbenches if Scotland votes in favour of independence, as Tory rebels blame him for presiding over the break-up of the Union.

    The Independent understands that discussions have already taken place among Tory MPs considering standing a candidate against the Prime Minister if the Yes campaign is triumphant on 18 September.


    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/scottish-independence/scottish-independence-exclusive-rebel-mps-plot-instant-revolt-against-cameron-if-yes-campaign-win-9712688.html
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916

    A little embarrassing for the local MPs. I think we all know which end of the local pay scale Ed, Rosie and Caroline are at. Interesting how Labour MPs are so much better at getting rich themselves than they are at enriching their constituents.

    " it found that the employment and pay situation in Doncaster was among the worst in the whole of the country.

    Statistics revealed that, in the town, one in four workers earned less than two-thirds of the median national wage, and that Doncaster also fared badly when it came to differences between high- and low-pay occupations.

    The town was ranked bottom of a list of more than 60 UK towns and cities with the number of low-paid workers showing the greatest gap from highly-paid workers. "

    http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/doncaster-workers-among-lowest-paid-in-the-country-1-6823308

    This will be an increasing trend in the UK and Western Europe, as the market for the uneducated and underskilled/unskilled workers becomes more competitive on a global scale and as increasing technology reduces the number of available jobs for such people.

    When will such people stop voting Labour?
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    malcolmg said:

    Patrick said:

    DavidL said:

    I knew Ed had few fans in Scotland.

    What I didn't know is that he has even fewer fans than David Cameron in Scotland

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/04/ed-miliband-no-more-admired-scotland/

    One of the major reasons that the Labour vote, and hence the result, is in play is that Scots that way inclined look at Ed and wonder if he would be any improvement on the Conservative government. He looks and sounds completely alien to them, their concerns and their aspirations.

    With a strong UK Labour leadership No would already be home and hosed. It has been a problem throughout the campaign.
    This is because Milibande is an utter utter pussy. What Malc might call a jessie. And what I might call drip with the breaking strain of a wet kitkat.

    I have a suspicion that the Scots are, on the whole, less inclined to offer political support to pussies than the English. Left or right they seem to me to prefer something a bit more of the 'hard man' politico. Hell, they even had some time for Gordon Brown (deranged, vindictive, blind, narcissistic, stupid, arrogant - but not by any means a drip). SLAB has been 'hard' in a machine politics sort of way for ages. Eck is something of a dictator / Alpha male personality. I suspect the infection of political correctness may have less traction in Scotland than the UK as a whole. And this is a good thing. I admire the desire of many Scots to be independent.

    But Redward? Well he's a blancmange. An English lisping bucktoothed blancmange into the bargain. Of course they hate him. And Dave. And Clegg (who scores roughly 11 out of 10 on the metrosexual wincing mincing floppy nancyboy PC idiot gimp scale).
    Patrick , we agree entirely , how odd.
    So Malcolm you admit you like being bossed around by "dictatorial" Eck, how servile.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,008
    Financier said:

    A little embarrassing for the local MPs. I think we all know which end of the local pay scale Ed, Rosie and Caroline are at. Interesting how Labour MPs are so much better at getting rich themselves than they are at enriching their constituents.

    " it found that the employment and pay situation in Doncaster was among the worst in the whole of the country.

    Statistics revealed that, in the town, one in four workers earned less than two-thirds of the median national wage, and that Doncaster also fared badly when it came to differences between high- and low-pay occupations.

    The town was ranked bottom of a list of more than 60 UK towns and cities with the number of low-paid workers showing the greatest gap from highly-paid workers. "

    http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/doncaster-workers-among-lowest-paid-in-the-country-1-6823308

    This will be an increasing trend in the UK and Western Europe, as the market for the uneducated and underskilled/unskilled workers becomes more competitive on a global scale and as increasing technology reduces the number of available jobs for such people.

    When will such people stop voting Labour?
    When they, I suggest it will not be to vote Tory. It’s obvious, to them at any rate, that the Tories will only perpetuate the situation and indeed probably make it worse. At the moment Labour might improve it.
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    Financier said:

    A little embarrassing for the local MPs. I think we all know which end of the local pay scale Ed, Rosie and Caroline are at. Interesting how Labour MPs are so much better at getting rich themselves than they are at enriching their constituents.

    " it found that the employment and pay situation in Doncaster was among the worst in the whole of the country.

    Statistics revealed that, in the town, one in four workers earned less than two-thirds of the median national wage, and that Doncaster also fared badly when it came to differences between high- and low-pay occupations.

    The town was ranked bottom of a list of more than 60 UK towns and cities with the number of low-paid workers showing the greatest gap from highly-paid workers. "

    http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/doncaster-workers-among-lowest-paid-in-the-country-1-6823308

    This will be an increasing trend in the UK and Western Europe, as the market for the uneducated and underskilled/unskilled workers becomes more competitive on a global scale and as increasing technology reduces the number of available jobs for such people.

    When will such people stop voting Labour?
    When they start voting UKIP, I expect. As I've said before, if Labour are as wicked as Tory Peebies make them out to be, then the Tory Party must also stand guilty of gross irresponsibility in not criminalising Labour, or at least treating it as it once did Sinn Fein...

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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,344

    That Con slump in "moved on" crosses parties:

    Succeeded in moving on and left its past behind it (vs Aug 20/21)
    Con: 42 (-11)
    Lab: 2 (-2)
    LD: 7 (-7)
    UKIP: 8 (-5)

    So it looks more "real" than a "funny".

    Thanks Mr Prison Soap....

    Can we leave out the obscure playground insults? For new readers they reinforce the impression that politics is an obscure hobby that you need to train to understand...

    On topic, I don't believe it for a moment. Activists may support the "heir apparent" but the members who don't usually do anything will turn out for Boris.
  • Options
    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916

    Patrick said:

    Patrick said:

    DavidL said:

    I knew Ed had few fans in Scotland.

    What I didn't know is that he has even fewer fans than David Cameron in Scotland

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/04/ed-miliband-no-more-admired-scotland/

    One of the major reasons that the Labour vote, and hence the result, is in play is that Scots that way inclined look at Ed and wonder if he would be any improvement on the Conservative government. He looks and sounds completely alien to them, their concerns and their aspirations.

    With a strong UK Labour leadership No would already be home and hosed. It has been a problem throughout the campaign.
    This is because Milibande is an utter utter pussy. What Malc might call a jessie. And what I might call drip with the breaking strain of a wet kitkat....

    But Redward? Well he's a blancmange. An English lisping bucktoothed blancmange into the bargain. Of course they hate him. And Dave. And Clegg (who scores roughly 11 out of 10 on the metrosexual wincing mincing floppy nancyboy PC idiot gimp scale).
    Real men get into fights on Saturday nights, eh, Patrick?

    Did I say that? They do have clear and sensible political convictions, say what they think, and are prepared to act accordingly. I doubt very much if any of Maggie, Ronnie, Churchill, Gandhi, Mandela, or any number of admirable political leaders (of very varying political persausions) got into fights on a Saturday. There's surely a world of difference between expressing strength and expressing violence.
    Well, I agree there is a considerable difference between strength and violence, but hope that you in your turn would acknowledge that that difference can easily get lost in the hurly-burly of the dirty world that is politics. (Incidentally, I doubt that many people who admired Thatcher or Reagan also in truth admired Gandhi or Mandela. But then, I always saw Thatcher as a bully herself.)

    I would disagree with your last comment. All the four people you mention above were visionaries in their own right and were strong leaders. Most people are attracted to/will follow strong and positive leadership.

    Mandela and Gandhi modified their beliefs and policies as time and experience progressed and became better leaders for having that quality.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,013
    Patrick said:

    malcolmg said:

    Patrick said:

    DavidL said:

    I knew Ed had few fans in Scotland.

    What I didn't know is that he has even fewer fans than David Cameron in Scotland

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/04/ed-miliband-no-more-admired-scotland/

    One of the major reasons that the Labour vote, and hence the result, is in play is that Scots that way inclined look at Ed and wonder if he would be any improvement on the Conservative government. He looks and sounds completely alien to them, their concerns and their aspirations.

    With a strong UK Labour leadership No would already be home and hosed. It has been a problem throughout the campaign.
    This is because Milibande is an utter utter pussy. What Malc might call a jessie. And what I might call drip with the breaking strain of a wet kitkat.

    I have a suspicion that the Scots are, on the whole, less inclined to offer political support to pussies than the English. Left or right they seem to me to prefer something a bit more of the 'hard man' politico. Hell, they even had some time for Gordon Brown (deranged, vindictive, blind, narcissistic, stupid, arrogant - but not by any means a drip). SLAB has been 'hard' in a machine politics sort of way for ages. Eck is something of a dictator / Alpha male personality. I suspect the infection of political correctness may have less traction in Scotland than the UK as a whole. And this is a good thing. I admire the desire of many Scots to be independent.

    But Redward? Well he's a blancmange. An English lisping bucktoothed blancmange into the bargain. Of course they hate him. And Dave. And Clegg (who scores roughly 11 out of 10 on the metrosexual wincing mincing floppy nancyboy PC idiot gimp scale).
    Patrick , we agree entirely , how odd.
    We agree on many many things Malc - apart from how independence would impact Scotland.
    Very true, but sometimes you have to ignore your head.
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916

    Financier said:

    A little embarrassing for the local MPs. I think we all know which end of the local pay scale Ed, Rosie and Caroline are at. Interesting how Labour MPs are so much better at getting rich themselves than they are at enriching their constituents.

    " it found that the employment and pay situation in Doncaster was among the worst in the whole of the country.

    Statistics revealed that, in the town, one in four workers earned less than two-thirds of the median national wage, and that Doncaster also fared badly when it came to differences between high- and low-pay occupations.

    The town was ranked bottom of a list of more than 60 UK towns and cities with the number of low-paid workers showing the greatest gap from highly-paid workers. "

    http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/doncaster-workers-among-lowest-paid-in-the-country-1-6823308

    This will be an increasing trend in the UK and Western Europe, as the market for the uneducated and underskilled/unskilled workers becomes more competitive on a global scale and as increasing technology reduces the number of available jobs for such people.

    When will such people stop voting Labour?
    When they, I suggest it will not be to vote Tory. It’s obvious, to them at any rate, that the Tories will only perpetuate the situation and indeed probably make it worse. At the moment Labour might improve it.
    How, please elucidate - how will Labour create more well-paid jobs for them - more servants for Ed and his very rich set?
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    Financier said:

    Patrick said:

    Patrick said:

    DavidL said:

    I knew Ed had few fans in Scotland.

    What I didn't know is that he has even fewer fans than David Cameron in Scotland

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/04/ed-miliband-no-more-admired-scotland/

    One of the major reasons that the Labour vote, and hence the result, is in play is that Scots that way inclined look at Ed and wonder if he would be any improvement on the Conservative government. He looks and sounds completely alien to them, their concerns and their aspirations.

    With a strong UK Labour leadership No would already be home and hosed. It has been a problem throughout the campaign.
    roughly 11 out of 10 on the metrosexual wincing mincing floppy nancyboy PC idiot gimp scale).
    Real men get into fights on Saturday nights, eh, Patrick?

    Did I say that? They do have clear and sensible political convictions, say what they think, and are prepared to act accordingly. I doubt very much if any of Maggie, Ronnie, Churchill, Gandhi, Mandela, or any number of admirable political leaders (of very varying political persausions) got into fights on a Saturday. There's surely a world of difference between expressing strength and expressing violence.
    Well, I agree there is a considerable difference between strength and violence, but hope that you in your turn would acknowledge that that difference can easily get lost in the hurly-burly of the dirty world that is politics. (Incidentally, I doubt that many people who admired Thatcher or Reagan also in truth admired Gandhi or Mandela. But then, I always saw Thatcher as a bully herself.)

    I would disagree with your last comment. All the four people you mention above were visionaries in their own right and were strong leaders. Most people are attracted to/will follow strong and positive leadership.

    Mandela and Gandhi modified their beliefs and policies as time and experience progressed and became better leaders for having that quality.
    I cannot think of anyone, from anywhere in the world, whom I admire for their behaviour whilst in power - Gandhi refused to take office after India became independent, and no one remembers anything Mandela did or didn't do after he was sworn in as President of his country.

    It is not, never can be visionary or admirable to use power for partisan advantage - something which every Prime minister (or U.S. President, come to that) does and has to do.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    The pilot who struck the decisive blow against the Bismarck believes that a “yes” vote in Scotland’s independence referendum would be a betrayal of his fallen comrades.

    Mr Moffat’s views were echoed by Ms Davidson, who highlighted the humanitarian work of British forces.

    She said: “Is it really the case that, on this small island, one which has protected itself so well for centuries, that we are now to divide up our ships, our jets, our troops and our intelligence expertise — all just so Alex Salmond can inspect the troops?

    “I cannot and will not stand silent while the reputation of our armed forces, built up for generations, across our national borders, is subject to this kind of nationalist vandalism.”
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/referendum/article4197209.ece
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,010

    Another place for the South Yorkshire plods to apply their famed 'community cohesion' abilities:

    http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/crime/video-calls-for-meeting-with-roma-leaders-over-unrest-in-hexthorpe-1-6822768

    I wonder if any of the PB cheerleaders of the PPEocrachy could explain how allowing unlimited immigration from the poorest parts of Europe to one of the poorest districts in one of the poorest boroughs of England benefits this country ?

    It is not the job of the government to maximise the welfare of any particular individuals. It is the government's job to allow individuals to do what they want so long as they are not breaking any laws.

  • Options

    Prison Soap Carswell

    do you imagine this is somehow going to become witty or amusing if you repeat it enough times?
  • Options
    Based on UKPR's updated polling average as at 3 Sept, Stephen Fisher's latest 2015 GE Seats projection (showing changes compared with last week) is as follows:

    Con ............ 301 (unchanged)
    Lab ..............295 (+ 1 seat)
    Lib Dem ........26 (unchanged)
    Others ......... 28 (- 1 seat)

    Total ...........650 seats
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,013
    Scott_P said:

    The pilot who struck the decisive blow against the Bismarck believes that a “yes” vote in Scotland’s independence referendum would be a betrayal of his fallen comrades.

    Mr Moffat’s views were echoed by Ms Davidson, who highlighted the humanitarian work of British forces.

    She said: “Is it really the case that, on this small island, one which has protected itself so well for centuries, that we are now to divide up our ships, our jets, our troops and our intelligence expertise — all just so Alex Salmond can inspect the troops?

    “I cannot and will not stand silent while the reputation of our armed forces, built up for generations, across our national borders, is subject to this kind of nationalist vandalism.”
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/referendum/article4197209.ece

    LOL, the unionists just cannot get out of the past , reminiscing about empire. Losers that have only past glories as answers. Look to the future you turnips.
  • Options
    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    The pilot who struck the decisive blow against the Bismarck believes that a “yes” vote in Scotland’s independence referendum would be a betrayal of his fallen comrades.

    Mr Moffat’s views were echoed by Ms Davidson, who highlighted the humanitarian work of British forces.

    She said: “Is it really the case that, on this small island, one which has protected itself so well for centuries, that we are now to divide up our ships, our jets, our troops and our intelligence expertise — all just so Alex Salmond can inspect the troops?

    “I cannot and will not stand silent while the reputation of our armed forces, built up for generations, across our national borders, is subject to this kind of nationalist vandalism.”
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/referendum/article4197209.ece
    LOL, the unionists just cannot get out of the past , reminiscing about empire. Losers that have only past glories as answers. Look to the future you turnips.

    Show a bit of respect. What was your disgusting party up to while Mr Moffat was bringing martial glory to Scotland?
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    rcs1000 said:

    Another place for the South Yorkshire plods to apply their famed 'community cohesion' abilities:

    http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/crime/video-calls-for-meeting-with-roma-leaders-over-unrest-in-hexthorpe-1-6822768

    I wonder if any of the PB cheerleaders of the PPEocrachy could explain how allowing unlimited immigration from the poorest parts of Europe to one of the poorest districts in one of the poorest boroughs of England benefits this country ?

    It is not the job of the government to maximise the welfare of any particular individuals. It is the government's job to allow individuals to do what they want so long as they are not breaking any laws.

    Well, that's a point of view, I suppose. I doubt you'll live to see many people who share it get elected and even fewer re-elected...

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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758
    edited September 2014
    Financier said:

    A little embarrassing for the local MPs. I think we all know which end of the local pay scale Ed, Rosie and Caroline are at. Interesting how Labour MPs are so much better at getting rich themselves than they are at enriching their constituents.

    " it found that the employment and pay situation in Doncaster was among the worst in the whole of the country.

    Statistics revealed that, in the town, one in four workers earned less than two-thirds of the median national wage, and that Doncaster also fared badly when it came to differences between high- and low-pay occupations.

    The town was ranked bottom of a list of more than 60 UK towns and cities with the number of low-paid workers showing the greatest gap from highly-paid workers. "

    http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/doncaster-workers-among-lowest-paid-in-the-country-1-6823308

    This will be an increasing trend in the UK and Western Europe, as the market for the uneducated and underskilled/unskilled workers becomes more competitive on a global scale and as increasing technology reduces the number of available jobs for such people.

    When will such people stop voting Labour?
    maybe when other parties offer them something worth having.

    The corollary of the position is when will the conservatives start making real in roads in to the difficulties of the low paid instead of shovelling in immigrants and giving subsidies and tax cuts to the well off ?
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Scott_P said:

    The pilot who struck the decisive blow against the Bismarck believes that a “yes” vote in Scotland’s independence referendum would be a betrayal of his fallen comrades.

    Mr Moffat’s views were echoed by Ms Davidson, who highlighted the humanitarian work of British forces.

    She said: “Is it really the case that, on this small island, one which has protected itself so well for centuries, that we are now to divide up our ships, our jets, our troops and our intelligence expertise — all just so Alex Salmond can inspect the troops?

    “I cannot and will not stand silent while the reputation of our armed forces, built up for generations, across our national borders, is subject to this kind of nationalist vandalism.”
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/referendum/article4197209.ece

    I am glad to hear he is alive and well. I have his autograph on a piece of Swordfish cloth, with a personal statement from him in his own writing. I bought it at a fundraiser to try to restore the last Fleet Air Arm Swordfish.

    A very brave man.
  • Options
    GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    The pilot who struck the decisive blow against the Bismarck believes that a “yes” vote in Scotland’s independence referendum would be a betrayal of his fallen comrades.

    Mr Moffat’s views were echoed by Ms Davidson, who highlighted the humanitarian work of British forces.

    She said: “Is it really the case that, on this small island, one which has protected itself so well for centuries, that we are now to divide up our ships, our jets, our troops and our intelligence expertise — all just so Alex Salmond can inspect the troops?

    “I cannot and will not stand silent while the reputation of our armed forces, built up for generations, across our national borders, is subject to this kind of nationalist vandalism.”
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/referendum/article4197209.ece
    LOL, the unionists just cannot get out of the past , reminiscing about empire. Losers that have only past glories as answers. Look to the future you turnips.

    Yes, but your future is currently one great big unknown ;-)

  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Alanbrooke

    "The corollary of the position is when will the conservatives start making real in roads in to the difficulties of the low paid instead of shovelling in immigrants and giving subsidies and tax cuts to the well off ?"

    Ludlow's going RED!!!
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Prison Soap Carswell

    do you imagine this is somehow going to become witty or amusing if you repeat it enough times?
    "Prison Soap Carswell" is really quite an unpleasant comment that reveals more about Lord than about Carswell. It implicitly suggests that prison rape is acceptable and also that homosexual intercourse is degrading.

    I think both Carswell and Farage have the wrong answers to the wrong questions about the future of the UK, but this is the wrong way to express it.
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    MG's comment re the pilot...classy..
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Morning all and I guess a fortnight from now I could be writing from a soon to be foreign country to most of you!

    Never understood the London obsession with Boris. You clearly like him in London. Many of the rest of us think he is an entertaining lying clown not to be trusted.

    He has insulted almost every other region of England and we Scots would be unlikely to forgive his remarks about us. Somewhat ironic he bears the surname of his Scottish grandmother rather than that of his Turkish grandfather!

    If Boris has "balls" he should stand in Clacton. At least if he loses, he will have given Douglas Carswell a tough fight.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Is this accurate?
    Imagine if the Tories had won the 1964 general election and, from that platform, proceeded to win again in 1966. Liberal laws on censorship, abortion, divorce and homosexuality and the abolition of capital punishment would all either not have happened or, more likely, be the crowning achievement of the Tory home secretary Quintin Hogg.

    Imagine the Tories carry on until, in February 1974, they win again, albeit as a minority. Imagine a country in which uninterrupted Conservative government is feasible from 1951 to 1997. Imagine this country. It isn’t hard to do. That country is Great Britain with Scotland taken out.
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/article4197041.ece
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758
    rcs1000 said:

    Another place for the South Yorkshire plods to apply their famed 'community cohesion' abilities:

    http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/crime/video-calls-for-meeting-with-roma-leaders-over-unrest-in-hexthorpe-1-6822768

    I wonder if any of the PB cheerleaders of the PPEocrachy could explain how allowing unlimited immigration from the poorest parts of Europe to one of the poorest districts in one of the poorest boroughs of England benefits this country ?

    It is not the job of the government to maximise the welfare of any particular individuals. It is the government's job to allow individuals to do what they want so long as they are not breaking any laws.

    RCS that really is a stupid statement.

    Do you think people vote for an abstract view of government or for the politicians who make them better off ?
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Prison Soap Carswell

    do you imagine this is somehow going to become witty or amusing if you repeat it enough times?
    it will continue be hilarious - especially when he's sent out to bat / bend over..
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758
    Roger said:

    Alanbrooke

    "The corollary of the position is when will the conservatives start making real in roads in to the difficulties of the low paid instead of shovelling in immigrants and giving subsidies and tax cuts to the well off ?"

    Ludlow's going RED!!!

    We've always been progressive Roger, It's London holds us back.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Yes continues to creep up towards 5s on betfair - 4.7 now (£1500 available)

  • Options
    Weren't we due an indyref poll today?
  • Options

    Based on UKPR's updated polling average as at 3 Sept, Stephen Fisher's latest 2015 GE Seats projection (showing changes compared with last week) is as follows:

    Con ............ 301 (unchanged)
    Lab ..............295 (+ 1 seat)
    Lib Dem ........26 (unchanged)
    Others ......... 28 (- 1 seat)

    Total ...........650 seats

    Over the past 8 weeks Fisher shows the Tories as having moved within a narrow band of just 5 seats (299 - 304), likewise Labour (290 - 295), whilst the LibDems have ranged between 26 - 29 seats.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,013
    Gadfly said:

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    The pilot who struck the decisive blow against the Bismarck believes that a “yes” vote in Scotland’s independence referendum would be a betrayal of his fallen comrades.

    Mr Moffat’s views were echoed by Ms Davidson, who highlighted the humanitarian work of British forces.

    She said: “Is it really the case that, on this small island, one which has protected itself so well for centuries, that we are now to divide up our ships, our jets, our troops and our intelligence expertise — all just so Alex Salmond can inspect the troops?

    “I cannot and will not stand silent while the reputation of our armed forces, built up for generations, across our national borders, is subject to this kind of nationalist vandalism.”
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/referendum/article4197209.ece
    LOL, the unionists just cannot get out of the past , reminiscing about empire. Losers that have only past glories as answers. Look to the future you turnips.
    Yes, but your future is currently one great big unknown ;-)



    better than having your head up your arse. Man up gadfly , grow a pair.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,013

    Weren't we due an indyref poll today?

    just unionist panic I think
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    India at 1.84 looks generous for the ODI - England are hopeless.
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    Plato said:

    Is this accurate?

    Imagine if the Tories had won the 1964 general election and, from that platform, proceeded to win again in 1966. Liberal laws on censorship, abortion, divorce and homosexuality and the abolition of capital punishment would all either not have happened or, more likely, be the crowning achievement of the Tory home secretary Quintin Hogg.

    Imagine the Tories carry on until, in February 1974, they win again, albeit as a minority. Imagine a country in which uninterrupted Conservative government is feasible from 1951 to 1997. Imagine this country. It isn’t hard to do. That country is Great Britain with Scotland taken out.
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/article4197041.ece

    Is it accurate? No. There's no reason to suppose that Tory wins in 1964 and February 1974 would have led to elections in 1966 and October 1974, let alone further Tory wins!

  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Weren't we due an indyref poll today?

    A lot of postal votes cast already..
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,013

    MG's comment re the pilot...classy..

    doddery it was nothing to do with the pilot , it was about loser unionists who hark back to the past as they have no hope or no vision. He had his day and acted splendidly , unlike the craven unionists of today who cower and look back in terror rather than heads high and look to a brighter future.
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    MG Stop digging..you make yourself look an even bigger prat..
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    SeanT said:

    BTW the Guardian is saying there are rumours of a poll showing a significant YES lead, due this weekend.

    However I suspect they might be talking about the same Panelbase poll as the rest of us, due today according to Twitter, which hasn't materialised.

    Yes is back up to 4.7 from sub 4 earlier this week on betfair. Not many punters trusting in this poll.
  • Options
    SeanT said:

    BTW the Guardian is saying there are rumours of a poll showing a significant YES lead, due this weekend.

    However I suspect they might be talking about the same Panelbase poll as the rest of us, due today according to Twitter, which hasn't materialised.

    I wonder if the SNP might be tempted to comission a poll like their "unusual" poll last year with a series of questions before the referendum voting intention question.......

    1. Do you think it is fair Tories eat Scottish babies?
    2. Do you look forward to the next 1,000 years of Tory rule from Westminster?
    3. Should Scotland be an independent country?
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    TGOHF said:

    SeanT said:

    BTW the Guardian is saying there are rumours of a poll showing a significant YES lead, due this weekend.

    However I suspect they might be talking about the same Panelbase poll as the rest of us, due today according to Twitter, which hasn't materialised.

    Yes is back up to 4.7 from sub 4 earlier this week on betfair. Not many punters trusting in this poll.
    It's gone from 3.9 to 4.7 in the past 24 hours. Why?
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758
    SeanT said:

    BTW the Guardian is saying there are rumours of a poll showing a significant YES lead, due this weekend.

    However I suspect they might be talking about the same Panelbase poll as the rest of us, due today according to Twitter, which hasn't materialised.

    we're in that period where nobody knows and everyone lies.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    SeanT said:

    BTW the Guardian is saying there are rumours of a poll showing a significant YES lead, due this weekend.

    However I suspect they might be talking about the same Panelbase poll as the rest of us, due today according to Twitter, which hasn't materialised.

    Yes is back up to 4.7 from sub 4 earlier this week on betfair. Not many punters trusting in this poll.
    It's gone from 3.9 to 4.7 in the past 24 hours. Why?
    As I said - postal votes are already starting to go in....

  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    Mr. Lord's comments about "prison soap" demonstrate what a bullet UKIP have dodged by not having him as a candidate.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    rcs1000 said:

    Another place for the South Yorkshire plods to apply their famed 'community cohesion' abilities:

    http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/crime/video-calls-for-meeting-with-roma-leaders-over-unrest-in-hexthorpe-1-6822768

    I wonder if any of the PB cheerleaders of the PPEocrachy could explain how allowing unlimited immigration from the poorest parts of Europe to one of the poorest districts in one of the poorest boroughs of England benefits this country ?

    It is not the job of the government to maximise the welfare of any particular individuals. It is the government's job to allow individuals to do what they want so long as they are not breaking any laws.

    RCS that really is a stupid statement.

    Do you think people vote for an abstract view of government or for the politicians who make them better off ?
    Who people vote for is a different question than what government should do. How can a government make people better off?
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,608

    Financier said:

    A little embarrassing for the local MPs. I think we all know which end of the local pay scale Ed, Rosie and Caroline are at. Interesting how Labour MPs are so much better at getting rich themselves than they are at enriching their constituents.

    " it found that the employment and pay situation in Doncaster was among the worst in the whole of the country.

    Statistics revealed that, in the town, one in four workers earned less than two-thirds of the median national wage, and that Doncaster also fared badly when it came to differences between high- and low-pay occupations.

    The town was ranked bottom of a list of more than 60 UK towns and cities with the number of low-paid workers showing the greatest gap from highly-paid workers. "

    http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/doncaster-workers-among-lowest-paid-in-the-country-1-6823308

    This will be an increasing trend in the UK and Western Europe, as the market for the uneducated and underskilled/unskilled workers becomes more competitive on a global scale and as increasing technology reduces the number of available jobs for such people.

    When will such people stop voting Labour?
    When they, I suggest it will not be to vote Tory. It’s obvious, to them at any rate, that the Tories will only perpetuate the situation and indeed probably make it worse. At the moment Labour might improve it.
    I think UKIP are a more likely alternative, but even then, after so many years of voting Labour with little to no gain one does wonder what drives people to keep hammering away at the same failed idea. To me Labour's policy goal is the ensure that there are enough people on the public payroll and enough people trapped on welfare to vote against any party which wants to reduce the size of the state. That has always been Labour's primary goal as I see it. Back in 2005 the cuts proposed by Michael Howard were a complete joke, spending would have risen from 2005-2009 by around 2.2% per year, but this was characterised as cuts so bad that half the public sector would find itself out of work and anyone on benefits would be out on the street so Labour scraped the popular vote based on those two vote banks.

    As I said, it is interesting and depressing that people who find themselves in areas of poverty and deprivation keep voting the same way and expect a different outcome compared to the last 40 years. There was some constituency in the north that had 80% public sector employment and it was also one of the poorest, it doesn't take a genius to work out what the problem is.
  • Options
    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916

    Financier said:

    A little embarrassing for the local MPs. I think we all know which end of the local pay scale Ed, Rosie and Caroline are at. Interesting how Labour MPs are so much better at getting rich themselves than they are at enriching their constituents.

    " it found that the employment and pay situation in Doncaster was among the worst in the whole of the country.

    Statistics revealed that, in the town, one in four workers earned less than two-thirds of the median national wage, and that Doncaster also fared badly when it came to differences between high- and low-pay occupations.

    The town was ranked bottom of a list of more than 60 UK towns and cities with the number of low-paid workers showing the greatest gap from highly-paid workers. "

    http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/doncaster-workers-among-lowest-paid-in-the-country-1-6823308

    This will be an increasing trend in the UK and Western Europe, as the market for the uneducated and underskilled/unskilled workers becomes more competitive on a global scale and as increasing technology reduces the number of available jobs for such people.

    When will such people stop voting Labour?
    maybe when other parties offer them something worth having.

    The corollary of the position is when will the conservatives start making real in roads in to the difficulties of the low paid instead of shovelling in immigrants and giving subsidies and tax cuts to the well off ?

    @Alanbrooke

    The world has changed and 20the century solutions are no longer applicable to 21st century problems.

    Yes the UK could ban all non-EU immigrants who do not have a degree or similar, but that would not solve the problem of EU immigrants who have gained a EU-country nationality and so come to the UK under that guise.

    The UK could disqualify any non-EU immigrants for UK benefits unless they have at least 5 years of paying Tax and NI.

    The UK could reduce its benefit levels to those of the lowest EU country and so certain immigrants would not target the UK so much.

    However, no government can create jobs that are competitive globally without at the same time improving both the UK's education standards and the personal and professional aspiration that we had over 50 years ago.

    None of these will happen whilst we have a coalition HMG with the weepy LDs moderating all useful progress in this area.
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    The lengthening of the odds against a YES win probably has more to do with the narrowing time frame than with any loss in their perceived level of support.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    rcs1000 said:

    Another place for the South Yorkshire plods to apply their famed 'community cohesion' abilities:

    http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/crime/video-calls-for-meeting-with-roma-leaders-over-unrest-in-hexthorpe-1-6822768

    I wonder if any of the PB cheerleaders of the PPEocrachy could explain how allowing unlimited immigration from the poorest parts of Europe to one of the poorest districts in one of the poorest boroughs of England benefits this country ?

    It is not the job of the government to maximise the welfare of any particular individuals. It is the government's job to allow individuals to do what they want so long as they are not breaking any laws.

    Voters won't accept that.

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    SeanT said:

    BTW the Guardian is saying there are rumours of a poll showing a significant YES lead, due this weekend.

    However I suspect they might be talking about the same Panelbase poll as the rest of us, due today according to Twitter, which hasn't materialised.

    we're in that period where nobody knows and everyone lies.
    So business as usual then......

    I'm still mildly shocked that Miliband's ratings in Scotland are worse than Cameron's.

    I know he's Crap....but really, worse than a Tory PM!
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited September 2014
    Sean

    "Mr. Lord's comments about "prison soap" demonstrate what a bullet UKIP have dodged by not having him as a candidate.'

    Unfortunately they have a whole arsenal they failed to dodge
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Sean_F said:

    Mr. Lord's comments about "prison soap" demonstrate what a bullet UKIP have dodged by not having him as a candidate.

    Nationalists of all hues are invariably the least happy at jokes at their expense - Carswell fanboys proving the point on here today.
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    rcs1000 said:

    Another place for the South Yorkshire plods to apply their famed 'community cohesion' abilities:

    http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/crime/video-calls-for-meeting-with-roma-leaders-over-unrest-in-hexthorpe-1-6822768

    I wonder if any of the PB cheerleaders of the PPEocrachy could explain how allowing unlimited immigration from the poorest parts of Europe to one of the poorest districts in one of the poorest boroughs of England benefits this country ?

    It is not the job of the government to maximise the welfare of any particular individuals. It is the government's job to allow individuals to do what they want so long as they are not breaking any laws.

    The classic refrain of the super rich.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    malcolmg said:

    unlike the craven unionists of today who cower and look back in terror rather than heads high and look to a brighter future.

    It's the Nationalists who are cowering in terror, proclaiming that never again will Scottish soldiers fight for their country, while hiding behind a NATO shield.

    Wee sleekit cowerin' timorous beasties
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    SeanT said:

    Frenchness is the Islam of nationalities. Believes it is inherently superior: therefore is perpetually irritated and perplexed by clear evidence that it isn't.

    Just sayin'

    We really do need that like button back.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    TGOHF said:

    Sean_F said:

    Mr. Lord's comments about "prison soap" demonstrate what a bullet UKIP have dodged by not having him as a candidate.

    Nationalists of all hues are invariably the least happy at jokes at their expense - Carswell fanboys proving the point on here today.
    I think that anyone who thinks I am a kipper fanboy has not been paying attention!
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,608

    rcs1000 said:

    Another place for the South Yorkshire plods to apply their famed 'community cohesion' abilities:

    http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/crime/video-calls-for-meeting-with-roma-leaders-over-unrest-in-hexthorpe-1-6822768

    I wonder if any of the PB cheerleaders of the PPEocrachy could explain how allowing unlimited immigration from the poorest parts of Europe to one of the poorest districts in one of the poorest boroughs of England benefits this country ?

    It is not the job of the government to maximise the welfare of any particular individuals. It is the government's job to allow individuals to do what they want so long as they are not breaking any laws.

    RCS that really is a stupid statement.

    Do you think people vote for an abstract view of government or for the politicians who make them better off ?
    Politicians who say they are going to make them better off. There is a difference. I don't for one minute believe that Ed Miliband is going to have a positive effect on jobs and wages. He may talk about it, but in reality what can he really do to drive up wages? He doesn't control the minimum wage, he doesn't control pay policy in private companies and the state can't afford a real terms pay rise for its employees. Further, he is in favour of EU immigration which plays a major role in wage deflation so while he may say he will make people better off, the action is entirely different. The same is true for the Tories as well. Any politician claiming that they can make people better off while the government is running a budget deficit of £100bn per year is lying. It means taxes have to rise and spending needs to fall, which is going to make everyone poorer overall.
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited September 2014
    http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/you-con-your-idiots-ill-con-mine-salmond-tells-miliband-2014090590237

    "Salmond then put his arm around Miliband’s shoulder and told him to go back to scamming English idiots with the no-cuts fandango."
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    A Benefit Family's Budget

    Their spending includes SKY, 200 cigarettes and 24 cans of lager per week and they are complaining about not enough income.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16812185
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,344
    British voters think Obama is wonderful:

    https://times-deck.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/projects/31fefc0e570cb3860f2a6d4b38c6490d.html

    and a debate between Clegg and a 9-year-old:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/11074677/Nick-Clegg-left-squirming-over-free-school-meals-by-9-year-old-boy.html

    Clegg and the host are really patronising (Clegg even suggests the boy must be getting prompting) - I know several 9-year-olds who are perfectly capable of putting together a coherent argument as this kid does. I remember arguing the ins and outs of the electricians' union poll-rigging scandal when I was about 8 - a bit sad, maybe, but far from unique. Some kids like politics and debate and we should encourage it, or not complain when teenagers don't take an interest.
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    As if Prison Soap Carswell hasn't done enough damage:

    David Cameron could face a leadership challenge from his own backbenches if Scotland votes in favour of independence, as Tory rebels blame him for presiding over the break-up of the Union.

    The Independent understands that discussions have already taken place among Tory MPs considering standing a candidate against the Prime Minister if the Yes campaign is triumphant on 18 September.


    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/scottish-independence/scottish-independence-exclusive-rebel-mps-plot-instant-revolt-against-cameron-if-yes-campaign-win-9712688.html

    Calling him Prison Soap really is pathetic, homophobic and childish.
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    *** Betting Post ***

    The good news: Sporting Index have returned to the political spread-betting market, with two offers on IndyRef.

    The slightly less good news is that one of the markets ("Independence index") is basically just a fixed-odds bet on the result.

    The other one is a proper spread bet on the turnout, currently Sell 78%, Buy 79%

    It seems odd that they haven't put up a spread bet on the Yes percentage, which would be much more interesting.

    http://www.sportingindex.com/spread-betting/politics/british/mm4.uk.meeting.4758858/scottish-independence-referendum
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    SeanT said:

    Frenchness is the Islam of nationalities. Believes it is inherently superior: therefore is perpetually irritated and perplexed by clear evidence that it isn't.

    Just sayin'

    Now that is a great blog idea: wind up both frogs and islamists!



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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited September 2014
    Sean_F said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Another place for the South Yorkshire plods to apply their famed 'community cohesion' abilities:

    http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/crime/video-calls-for-meeting-with-roma-leaders-over-unrest-in-hexthorpe-1-6822768

    I wonder if any of the PB cheerleaders of the PPEocrachy could explain how allowing unlimited immigration from the poorest parts of Europe to one of the poorest districts in one of the poorest boroughs of England benefits this country ?

    It is not the job of the government to maximise the welfare of any particular individuals. It is the government's job to allow individuals to do what they want so long as they are not breaking any laws.

    Voters won't accept that.

    They might, Mr. F., they might if a party actually came along and offered it.

    Surely the first sentence, "It is not the job of the government to maximise the welfare of any particular individuals" is unobjectionable. The provision of a welfare safety net, health service and so forth is compatible with the statement as is taxing those earning to pay for it. No government of this country has ever sought to maximise the welfare of particular individuals. It is the second sentence, "It is the government's job to allow individuals to do what they want so long as they are not breaking any laws" that is controversial.
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    StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    I still don't understand why people keep saying Boris should stand in Clacton. Is there any sign at all he'd stand a chance, other than vague notions that "he kinda has the same type of appeal as Farage"?

    I seem to remember polling showing UKIP voters like him a little more than they do most Tories, but I don''t remember any evidence that it'd be enough to close the massive gap that he'd have to overcome in Clacton.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850

    Sean_F said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Another place for the South Yorkshire plods to apply their famed 'community cohesion' abilities:

    http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/crime/video-calls-for-meeting-with-roma-leaders-over-unrest-in-hexthorpe-1-6822768

    I wonder if any of the PB cheerleaders of the PPEocrachy could explain how allowing unlimited immigration from the poorest parts of Europe to one of the poorest districts in one of the poorest boroughs of England benefits this country ?

    It is not the job of the government to maximise the welfare of any particular individuals. It is the government's job to allow individuals to do what they want so long as they are not breaking any laws.

    Voters won't accept that.

    They might, Mr. F., they might if a party actually came along and offered it.

    Surely the first sentence, "It is not the job of the government to maximise the welfare of any particular individuals" is unobjectionable. The provision of a welfare safety net, health service and so forth is compatible with the statement as is taxing those earning to pay for it. No government of this country has ever sought to maximise the welfare of particular individuals. It is the second sentence that is controversial.
    Outside intellectual circles there's no market for a mass libertarian party.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758
    Financier said:

    Financier said:

    A little embarrassing for the local MPs. I think we all know which end of the local pay scale Ed, Rosie and Caroline are at. Interesting how Labour MPs are so much better at getting rich themselves than they are at enriching their constituents.

    " it found that the employment and pay situation in Doncaster was among the worst in the whole of the country.

    cities with the number of low-paid workers showing the greatest gap from highly-paid workers. "

    http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/doncaster-workers-among-lowest-paid-in-the-country-1-6823308

    This will be an increasing trene.

    When will such people stop voting Labour?
    maybe when other parties offer them something worth having.

    The corollary of the position is when will the conservatives start making real in roads in to the difficulties of the low paid instead of shovelling in immigrants and giving subsidies and tax cuts to the well off ?

    @Alanbrooke

    The world has changed and 20the century solutions are no longer applicable to 21st century problems.

    Yes the UK could ban all non-EU immigrants who do not have a degree or similar, but that would not solve the problem of EU immigrants who have gained a EU-country nationality and so come to the UK under that guise.

    The UK could disqualify any non-EU immigrants for UK benefits unless they have at least 5 years of paying Tax and NI.

    The UK could reduce its benefit levels to those of the lowest EU country and so certain immigrants would not target the UK so much.

    However, no government can create jobs that are competitive globally without at the same time improving both the UK's education standards and the personal and professional aspiration that we had over 50 years ago.

    None of these will happen whilst we have a coalition HMG with the weepy LDs moderating all useful progress in this area.
    You aren't going to get a conservative government while Cameron and co are unable to appeal to a large slice of aspirational voters who want to see the work rewarded but instead see system is cheating them. With lots of breaks and subsidies for the well off and immigration and benefits making them look mugs for playing by the rules.

    Cameron hasn't worked out that a factory worker's vote is equal to a banker's, he's just not very good at politics.

This discussion has been closed.