Alberto Nardelli @AlbertoNardelli · 2 mins Le Pen would beat Hollande in a runoff vote according to an Ifop poll just released in France.
The dug up skeleton of Joan of Arc would beat Hollande, so that's not saying much.
Hollande simply wont run unless his polls improve significantly.
Anyone know what the PS selection process is? IIUC they had a primary last time?
They have an open primary system, so he could face a challenger, if they follow the same schedule as last time, a challenger has to declare in mid 2016, and the primary elections are held in the Autumn of 2016
They've made their beds. Now they can lie in them.
Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not.
At least we can bomb them out there, rather than spreading their violence back in London.
Yes, that's exactly what the world needs - more terrorism and more bombing. Did you even read the article before your knee jerked or is that a physical impossibility?
A Le Pen presidency would be brilliant for France.
Sure I disagree with pretty much all she says, certanly the protectionist / statist economic policy and the outright nasty social ones - the 'let's get out of the Euro' policy is her only saving grace. But...the French political elite and establishment are ossified beyond belief. They badly need some sort of nuclear explosion to blow away their fusty old worldview and kick 'em in the nuts. This she would deliver in spades.
They've made their beds. Now they can lie in them.
Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not.
At least we can bomb them out there, rather than spreading their violence back in London.
Yes, that's exactly what the world needs - more terrorism and more bombing. Did you even read the article before your knee jerked or is that a physical impossibility?
As the Times pointed out, these chaps do want to undergo deradicalisation and submit to surveillance.
Perhaps it is the surveillance element Socrates is objecting to.
They've made their beds. Now they can lie in them.
Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not.
At least we can bomb them out there, rather than spreading their violence back in London.
Yes, that's exactly what the world needs - more terrorism and more bombing. Did you even read the article before your knee jerked or is that a physical impossibility?
As the Times pointed out, these chaps do want to undergo deradicalisation and submit to surveillance.
Perhaps it is the surveillance element Socrates is objecting to.
Just back from Glasgow. Definite buzz in the city. People talking about the referendum. Met my first "don't know" to "yes" convert. In that case the BT "negative campaign" was the decider.
Yes definitely have the MO. People talking about it being close and that YES is possible.
They've made their beds. Now they can lie in them.
Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not.
At least we can bomb them out there, rather than spreading their violence back in London.
Yes, that's exactly what the world needs - more terrorism and more bombing. Did you even read the article before your knee jerked or is that a physical impossibility?
As the Times pointed out, these chaps do want to undergo deradicalisation and submit to surveillance.
Perhaps it is the surveillance element Socrates is objecting to.
They've made their beds. Now they can lie in them.
Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not.
Aren't these the ones who've decided not to do that?
Leave them out there to discourage any other waverers.
According to the article, they're saying they have no choice but to fight if they stay out there
Actions and consequences. If they hadn't travelled out there in the first place, to attack and maim other people, they wouldn't be in this situation.
Besides, their main gripe is not that they're being forced to kill, but that they're expected to shoot at rivals rather than Assad's forces. Oh, and they're worried about being imprisoned for 40 years for murder if they return to the UK.
They've made their beds. Now they can lie in them.
Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not.
At least we can bomb them out there, rather than spreading their violence back in London.
Yes, that's exactly what the world needs - more terrorism and more bombing. Did you even read the article before your knee jerked or is that a physical impossibility?
As the Times pointed out, these chaps do want to undergo deradicalisation and submit to surveillance.
And presumably immunity from prosecution in return?
They've made their beds. Now they can lie in them.
Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not.
Aren't these the ones who've decided not to do that?
Leave them out there to discourage any other waverers.
According to the article, they're saying they have no choice but to fight if they stay out there
Actions and consequences. If they hadn't travelled out there in the first place, to attack and maim other people, they wouldn't be in this situation.
Besides, their main gripe is not that they're being forced to kill, but that they're expected to shoot at rivals rather than Assad's forces. Oh, and they're worried about being imprisoned for 40 years for murder if they return to the UK.
Er, well, yes. My previous post wasn't meant as a general defense of these people, it was specifically an answer to what you'd just said. The point being that:
"Aren't these the ones who've decided not to do that?
Leave them out there to discourage any other waverers."
doesn't make sense as an answer to:
"Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not. "
They've made their beds. Now they can lie in them.
Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not.
At least we can bomb them out there, rather than spreading their violence back in London.
Yes, that's exactly what the world needs - more terrorism and more bombing. Did you even read the article before your knee jerked or is that a physical impossibility?
As the Times pointed out, these chaps do want to undergo deradicalisation and submit to surveillance.
And presumably immunity from prosecution in return?
It's a non starter.
The UK government gave it to Republican terrorists who were guilty of murdering UK citizens. It's certainly not a non starter.
A Le Pen presidency would be brilliant for France.
Sure I disagree with pretty much all she says, certanly the protectionist / statist economic policy and the outright nasty social ones - the 'let's get out of the Euro' policy is her only saving grace. But...the French political elite and establishment are ossified beyond belief. They badly need some sort of nuclear explosion to blow away their fusty old worldview and kick 'em in the nuts. This she would deliver in spades.
They've made their beds. Now they can lie in them.
Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not.
At least we can bomb them out there, rather than spreading their violence back in London.
Yes, that's exactly what the world needs - more terrorism and more bombing. Did you even read the article before your knee jerked or is that a physical impossibility?
As the Times pointed out, these chaps do want to undergo deradicalisation and submit to surveillance.
And presumably immunity from prosecution in return?
They've made their beds. Now they can lie in them.
Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not.
At least we can bomb them out there, rather than spreading their violence back in London.
Yes, that's exactly what the world needs - more terrorism and more bombing. Did you even read the article before your knee jerked or is that a physical impossibility?
As the Times pointed out, these chaps do want to undergo deradicalisation and submit to surveillance.
And presumably immunity from prosecution in return?
It's a non starter.
The UK government gave it to Republican terrorists who were guilty of murdering UK citizens. It's certainly not a non starter.
How about we let them come back in 30 years, and turn a blind eye?
They've made their beds. Now they can lie in them.
Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not.
At least we can bomb them out there, rather than spreading their violence back in London.
Yes, that's exactly what the world needs - more terrorism and more bombing. Did you even read the article before your knee jerked or is that a physical impossibility?
As the Times pointed out, these chaps do want to undergo deradicalisation and submit to surveillance.
And presumably immunity from prosecution in return?
It's a non starter.
The UK government gave it to Republican terrorists who were guilty of murdering UK citizens. It's certainly not a non starter.
How about we let them come back in 30 years, and turn a blind eye?
Yeah. I mean what damage could they possibly do in 30 years?
The bedroom tax (not that it was ever likely to be a vote winner) was a supremely bad peice of branding. Who in their right mind would say 'The ending of the spare bedroom subsidy' when they could say 'bedroom tax'? At least 'Community charge' didn't need an Oxford dictionary of British grammar just to get it right. And that still became the poll tax.
It is very tempting indeed as someone of Indian extraction to laugh and point at Pakistanis, but India's not exactly a bed of roses for girls and women either:
Caste based sexual violence is borne of the same attitude as what we have seen here in Rotherham and other cities, the difference is that caste based sexual violence is nonexistent in the Indian community over here and while it is something Modi needs to tackle in India, we are not in India and we do not have these issues in Britain within the Indian community. The comparison is flawed because you are comparing attitudes and crimes of British citizens in Britain to those of Indians in India.
The Indian community isn't without its own set of problems but sexual violence based on race or caste definitely isn't one. I still think more needs to be done for women's rights for Indian women in Britain but compared to the Pakistani community and other Muslim communities it is night and day.
They've made their beds. Now they can lie in them.
Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not.
At least we can bomb them out there, rather than spreading their violence back in London.
Yes, that's exactly what the world needs - more terrorism and more bombing. Did you even read the article before your knee jerked or is that a physical impossibility?
As the Times pointed out, these chaps do want to undergo deradicalisation and submit to surveillance.
And presumably immunity from prosecution in return?
It's a non starter.
The UK government gave it to Republican terrorists who were guilty of murdering UK citizens. It's certainly not a non starter.
I thought the latest news was that this immunity wasn't worth the paper it was written on.
I'd also guess they might be able to provide a lot of useful insight in helping prevent or combat radicalisation of others.
Though it's not a subject I know much about, perhaps there's not much they'd be able to contribute which isn't already well understood through other sources or means.
Government defeated on bedroom tax then. SNP tsssk
I think most people will recognise this for the Lib Dem posturing that it is. (It's certainly not going to benefit anyone who has their benefit limited but cant find a smaller home to move to.)
@bigjohnowls Reading the comments underneath, it would appear that some people show a remarkable lack of imagination in their choice of insults. I hope the parties they support are more astute.
They've made their beds. Now they can lie in them.
Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not.
At least we can bomb them out there, rather than spreading their violence back in London.
Yes, that's exactly what the world needs - more terrorism and more bombing. Did you even read the article before your knee jerked or is that a physical impossibility?
As the Times pointed out, these chaps do want to undergo deradicalisation and submit to surveillance.
Perhaps it is the surveillance element Socrates is objecting to.
You really believe that after going through a government "deradicalisation course" they'll say "Oh, sorry! I had it all wrong! Western democracy is actually a brilliant thing." They're saying what they know the government wants to hear to get back into the country. The government would be endangering British lives to let them back in.
Don't forget the ease with which we hand out passports to those who apply. Individuals who came for a degree or work transfer and never leave. Shocked by the number of foreigners I meet at work who have a British passport these days.
They've made their beds. Now they can lie in them.
Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not.
At least we can bomb them out there, rather than spreading their violence back in London.
Yes, that's exactly what the world needs - more terrorism and more bombing. Did you even read the article before your knee jerked or is that a physical impossibility?
As the Times pointed out, these chaps do want to undergo deradicalisation and submit to surveillance.
And presumably immunity from prosecution in return?
It's a non starter.
The UK government gave it to Republican terrorists who were guilty of murdering UK citizens. It's certainly not a non starter.
I thought the latest news was that this immunity wasn't worth the paper it was written on.
Let's see what the courts say - to date they have been very valuable as get out of gaol free cards.
They've made their beds. Now they can lie in them.
Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not.
At least we can bomb them out there, rather than spreading their violence back in London.
Yes, that's exactly what the world needs - more terrorism and more bombing. Did you even read the article before your knee jerked or is that a physical impossibility?
As the Times pointed out, these chaps do want to undergo deradicalisation and submit to surveillance.
Perhaps it is the surveillance element Socrates is objecting to.
You really believe that after going through a government "deradicalisation course" they'll say "Oh, sorry! I had it all wrong! Western democracy is actually a brilliant thing." They're saying what they know the government wants to hear to get back into the country. The government would be endangering British lives to let them back in.
A Le Pen presidency would be brilliant for France.
Sure I disagree with pretty much all she says, certanly the protectionist / statist economic policy and the outright nasty social ones - the 'let's get out of the Euro' policy is her only saving grace. But...the French political elite and establishment are ossified beyond belief. They badly need some sort of nuclear explosion to blow away their fusty old worldview and kick 'em in the nuts. This she would deliver in spades.
Vote Fascist! says Patrick.
Moral bankruptcy of the left, let's have more of the same failed policies of the past 50 years.
Le Pen President and Scotland independent, it's the dream.
Just back from Glasgow. Definite buzz in the city. People talking about the referendum. Met my first "don't know" to "yes" convert. In that case the BT "negative campaign" was the decider.
Yes definitely have the MO. People talking about it being close and that YES is possible.
It is very tempting indeed as someone of Indian extraction to laugh and point at Pakistanis, but India's not exactly a bed of roses for girls and women either:
Caste based sexual violence is borne of the same attitude as what we have seen here in Rotherham and other cities, the difference is that caste based sexual violence is nonexistent in the Indian community over here and while it is something Modi needs to tackle in India, we are not in India and we do not have these issues in Britain within the Indian community. The comparison is flawed because you are comparing attitudes and crimes of British citizens in Britain to those of Indians in India.
The Indian community isn't without its own set of problems but sexual violence based on race or caste definitely isn't one. I still think more needs to be done for women's rights for Indian women in Britain but compared to the Pakistani community and other Muslim communities it is night and day.
Indeed. Women of Indian background of the UK are highly involved in the workforce and earn good salaries - more so than white women. Meanwhile Pakistani women in the UK are largely kept at home, and if they do work, it's for low wages in the local Pakistani area. As you say, the difference is night and day.
(Of course, this all has nothing to do with the individual the original 'joke' was made about.)
They've made their beds. Now they can lie in them.
Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not.
At least we can bomb them out there, rather than spreading their violence back in London.
Yes, that's exactly what the world needs - more terrorism and more bombing. Did you even read the article before your knee jerked or is that a physical impossibility?
As the Times pointed out, these chaps do want to undergo deradicalisation and submit to surveillance.
Perhaps it is the surveillance element Socrates is objecting to.
On what grounds? The cost?
Civil liberties grounds.
Ok I'll bite -are you actually serious about letting these psychopaths back into this country? 'Chaps'?
Either a) You're being deliberately controversial or You've smartly realised that Cameron will roll out the red carpet, so you're getting your defence in early.
They've made their beds. Now they can lie in them.
Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not.
At least we can bomb them out there, rather than spreading their violence back in London.
Yes, that's exactly what the world needs - more terrorism and more bombing. Did you even read the article before your knee jerked or is that a physical impossibility?
As the Times pointed out, these chaps do want to undergo deradicalisation and submit to surveillance.
And presumably immunity from prosecution in return?
It's a non starter.
The UK government gave it to Republican terrorists who were guilty of murdering UK citizens. It's certainly not a non starter.
How about we let them come back in 30 years, and turn a blind eye?
Yeah. I mean what damage could they possibly do in 30 years?
You reckon they'll still be around in 30 years? They seem a bit 'livelier' than the balaclava boys ever were.
A Le Pen presidency would be brilliant for France.
Sure I disagree with pretty much all she says, certanly the protectionist / statist economic policy and the outright nasty social ones - the 'let's get out of the Euro' policy is her only saving grace. But...the French political elite and establishment are ossified beyond belief. They badly need some sort of nuclear explosion to blow away their fusty old worldview and kick 'em in the nuts. This she would deliver in spades.
They've made their beds. Now they can lie in them.
Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not.
At least we can bomb them out there, rather than spreading their violence back in London.
Yes, that's exactly what the world needs - more terrorism and more bombing. Did you even read the article before your knee jerked or is that a physical impossibility?
As the Times pointed out, these chaps do want to undergo deradicalisation and submit to surveillance.
Perhaps it is the surveillance element Socrates is objecting to.
On what grounds? The cost?
Civil liberties grounds.
Ok I'll bite -are you actually serious about letting these psychopaths back into this country? 'Chaps'?
Either a) You're being deliberately controversial or You've smartly realised that Cameron will roll out the red carpet, so you're getting your defence in early.
I'm only in favour if they are all housed on your street.
Just back from Glasgow. Definite buzz in the city. People talking about the referendum. Met my first "don't know" to "yes" convert. In that case the BT "negative campaign" was the decider.
Yes definitely have the MO. People talking about it being close and that YES is possible.
Interesting, thanks. What's "MO" please?
Momentum, usually preceded by 'big'. The Big Mo is a US politicism
A Le Pen presidency would be brilliant for France.
Sure I disagree with pretty much all she says, certanly the protectionist / statist economic policy and the outright nasty social ones - the 'let's get out of the Euro' policy is her only saving grace. But...the French political elite and establishment are ossified beyond belief. They badly need some sort of nuclear explosion to blow away their fusty old worldview and kick 'em in the nuts. This she would deliver in spades.
Vote Fascist! says Patrick.
Moral bankruptcy of the left, let's have more of the same failed policies of the past 50 years.
Le Pen President and Scotland independent, it's the dream.
Government defeated on bedroom tax then. SNP tsssk
I think most people will recognise this for the Lib Dem posturing that it is. (It's certainly not going to benefit anyone who has their benefit limited but cant find a smaller home to move to.)
Everyone can agree the Lib Dems are perfidious opportunists !
Though it's not a subject I know much about, perhaps there's not much they'd be able to contribute which isn't already well understood through other sources or means.
This is what I can never work out when the west are alternately arming and bombing various different factions of religious nutjobs. Is it some incredibly cold, cynical, complex geopolitical Diplomacy game played under the cover of high principle, or do the people in charge just have absolutely no idea what the fuck they're doing?
Good turnout for a Friday PMB - the key vote was 264-236 against a Tory move to punt it into the long grass. Usually PMBs only get 100-150 MPs present. As Neil observes, it's tokenism, but good practice for future possible coalition talks...
Don't forget the ease with which we hand out passports to those who apply. Individuals who came for a degree or work transfer and never leave. Shocked by the number of foreigners I meet at work who have a British passport these days.
My son applied for a passport for his-born overseas daughter. The Passport Office made a mistake on the passport. He sent it back and was told he'd have to start at square one again.
They are the Iranian state propaganda channel. CarlottaVance is getting to new levels of desperateness in trying to denigrate Mr Carswell. It's an absurd smear campaign she is trying: Carswell is widely respected by all sides in the Commons as a very decent and upstanding man of principle.
Curious you think that posting the views of the Iranian state broadcaster counts as a "smear" - unless you think either I wrote it or that others would take it seriously....
They've made their beds. Now they can lie in them.
Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not.
At least we can bomb them out there, rather than spreading their violence back in London.
Yes, that's exactly what the world needs - more terrorism and more bombing. Did you even read the article before your knee jerked or is that a physical impossibility?
As the Times pointed out, these chaps do want to undergo deradicalisation and submit to surveillance.
Perhaps it is the surveillance element Socrates is objecting to.
On what grounds? The cost?
Civil liberties grounds.
You've smartly realised that Cameron will roll out the red carpet, so you're getting your defence in early.
So gap year jihadis go away for a spot of rape n pillage, decide that the ones they are raping n pillaging are not the ones they intended to rape n pillage, want to come home and be all cuddly fluffy bunny rabbit again - but their mean nasty overlords who they had no idea were mean n nasty said they couldn't and now they're in a bit of a corner.
Wonder if it were a female MP that defected if it would be ok to describe her as the rohypnol taker?
Well if they had, Roger Helmer would have come out in support of the female MP, or not.
Shame you can only see the partisan view of anything, you look very foolish, and aren't funny
, and you are defending an obvious double standard because you are a foolish partisan tory
You're the one who tried to make a partisan point, my point was, UKIP's record when it comes to comments about rape don't always paint the party in a good light.
My point was "would it be ok to call a female defector a rohypnol taker?" How is that partisan?
You are saying that I cant criticise jokes about rape because I vote UKIP and Roger Helmer said something controversial about it??
Not just Roger Helmer, I'm just saying, UKIP can't play the homophobic/sexism card.
Crazy talk
I cant criticise child rape jokes because I vote UKIP? Shows what an idiot you are
Hmm, you appear deeply uncomfortable with the comments by the ex UKIp county councillor and Clacton candidate Roger Lord, even going so far yesterday as to pretend he was actually
Im not that bothered about what he said, a little bit of un PC language is fine by me I just find the flexible standards on here amazing
It seems its ok to joke about rape, child rape particularly. Incredible when you consider the news cycle at the moment
And its just to make a partisan point
And people who love a bit of faux outrage when its their community that are being joked about join in..
Twats
Lord said he was supporting the local Lib Dem actually, I must have misread
Resorting to abuse, when you've lost the argument.
Who do you think you are, MalcolmG?
I haven't lost the argument.
Just because I am the only one saying rape isn't funny while you all laugh about it because UKIP are the target, doesn't mean I am wrong
Where have I said rape is funny.
You haven't, others have and when I criticised them you brought Roger Helmer into it and said UKIP (I me I suppose) couldn't criticise rape
Just back from Glasgow. Definite buzz in the city. People talking about the referendum. Met my first "don't know" to "yes" convert. In that case the BT "negative campaign" was the decider.
Yes definitely have the MO. People talking about it being close and that YES is possible.
Interesting, thanks. What's "MO" please?
Momentum, usually preceded by 'big'. The Big Mo is a US politicism
Just back from Glasgow. Definite buzz in the city. People talking about the referendum. Met my first "don't know" to "yes" convert. In that case the BT "negative campaign" was the decider.
Yes definitely have the MO. People talking about it being close and that YES is possible.
They've made their beds. Now they can lie in them.
Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not.
At least we can bomb them out there, rather than spreading their violence back in London.
Yes, that's exactly what the world needs - more terrorism and more bombing. Did you even read the article before your knee jerked or is that a physical impossibility?
As the Times pointed out, these chaps do want to undergo deradicalisation and submit to surveillance.
Perhaps it is the surveillance element Socrates is objecting to.
If we fall for that it will be the final straw for many people
The first Russo-Ukrainian war is over. "Agence France-Presse @AFP · 7m #BREAKING Ukraine, rebels agree ceasefire from Friday: rebels"
Ukraine lost about 1/6th of its airforce and 1/10th of its ground forces. Russia lost about 5% of its ground forces. The russian strategy failed completely as they were always outnumbered (case in point Mariupol 30000 ukranians vs 6000 russians). Russia has gained only 15000 sq. Km with a population of around 3-4 million, including Donetsk and Luhansk cities but I doubt they will keep it in the ceasefire deal.
Overall I declare it an ukrainian victory. Russia will have to exclude the civilian leadership from military affairs if it wants to avoid another defeat like that.
Well lets prepare for the second Russo-Ukrainian war, the ukrainian victory will make both sides more willing to fight another one down the line.
They've made their beds. Now they can lie in them.
Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not.
At least we can bomb them out there, rather than spreading their violence back in London.
Yes, that's exactly what the world needs - more terrorism and more bombing. Did you even read the article before your knee jerked or is that a physical impossibility?
As the Times pointed out, these chaps do want to undergo deradicalisation and submit to surveillance.
Perhaps it is the surveillance element Socrates is objecting to.
You really believe that after going through a government "deradicalisation course" they'll say "Oh, sorry! I had it all wrong! Western democracy is actually a brilliant thing." They're saying what they know the government wants to hear to get back into the country. The government would be endangering British lives to let them back in.
I read a piece last week about the stages of radicalism among Muslims.
Normally these people do un-Islamic things in their Youth, repent and become full on extremists.
But eventually most of them recant when they realise the futility of their radicalism and how wrong their interpretation of their faith was.
A Le Pen presidency would be brilliant for France.
Sure I disagree with pretty much all she says, certanly the protectionist / statist economic policy and the outright nasty social ones - the 'let's get out of the Euro' policy is her only saving grace. But...the French political elite and establishment are ossified beyond belief. They badly need some sort of nuclear explosion to blow away their fusty old worldview and kick 'em in the nuts. This she would deliver in spades.
Vote Fascist! says Patrick.
MLP is not a Fascist. She's hard, traditionalist, ethnocentric right with some rather socialist policies. She's not going to abolish democracy or fire up the ovens.
Overuse of the word Fascist is almost as counter-productive as overuse of the word "racist".
"hard, traditionalist, ethnocentric right with some rather socialist policies" a bit nationalist and a bit socialist ?
The first Russo-Ukrainian war is over. "Agence France-Presse @AFP · 7m #BREAKING Ukraine, rebels agree ceasefire from Friday: rebels"
Ukraine lost about 1/6th of its airforce and 1/10th of its ground forces. Russia lost about 5% of its ground forces. The russian strategy failed completely as they were always outnumbered (case in point Mariupol 30000 ukranians vs 6000 russians). Russia has gained only 15000 sq. Km with a population of around 3-4 million, including Donetsk and Luhansk cities but I doubt they will keep it in the ceasefire deal.
Overall I declare it an ukrainian victory. Russia will have to exclude the civilian leadership from military affairs if it wants to avoid another defeat like that.
Well lets prepare for the second Russo-Ukrainian war, the ukrainian victory will make both sides more willing to fight another one down the line.
Russia has lost 5 percent of its ground forces? What are you talking about?
They've made their beds. Now they can lie in them.
Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not.
At least we can bomb them out there, rather than spreading their violence back in London.
Yes, that's exactly what the world needs - more terrorism and more bombing. Did you even read the article before your knee jerked or is that a physical impossibility?
As the Times pointed out, these chaps do want to undergo deradicalisation and submit to surveillance.
Perhaps it is the surveillance element Socrates is objecting to.
On what grounds? The cost?
Civil liberties grounds.
Ok I'll bite -are you actually serious about letting these psychopaths back into this country? 'Chaps'?
Either a) You're being deliberately controversial or You've smartly realised that Cameron will roll out the red carpet, so you're getting your defence in early.
So gap year jihadis go away for a spot of rape n pillage, decide that the ones they are raping n pillaging are not the ones they intended to rape n pillage, want to come home and be all cuddly fluffy bunny rabbit again - but their mean nasty overlords who they had no idea were mean n nasty said they couldn't and now they're in a bit of a corner.
You'd need a heart of stone not to laugh.
Or its all bullshit and they are just using it as a pretense to enter the UK and continue their terrorist activities here on the streets of Britain. I'm not convinced by this sudden change of heart, I'm with Socrates. They made their bed and now must lie in it. If they wish to come back they should be charged with treason and locked up for eternity.
A Le Pen presidency would be brilliant for France.
Sure I disagree with pretty much all she says, certanly the protectionist / statist economic policy and the outright nasty social ones - the 'let's get out of the Euro' policy is her only saving grace. But...the French political elite and establishment are ossified beyond belief. They badly need some sort of nuclear explosion to blow away their fusty old worldview and kick 'em in the nuts. This she would deliver in spades.
Vote Fascist! says Patrick.
Moral bankruptcy of the left, let's have more of the same failed policies of the past 50 years.
Le Pen President and Scotland independent, it's the dream.
Did you also like Le Pen's father?
While Marine Le Pen is significantly less bad than her father, many of her closest advisers have publically said things that fit rather better with the BNP than any serious British political party (Conservative, Labour, or UKIP).
And I think a return to outright protectionism in one of our near neighbours would be an utter disaster for the UK and Europe.
Such a shame France does't have a sensible Eurosceptic party like AfD or UKIP.
Government defeated on bedroom tax then. SNP tsssk
But it's been dealt with by the SNP in Scotland already, using the general budget, as far as it impacts the general populace. Interesting question therefore whether it is enough of a Barnett consequential to justify the SNP breaching their normal self-denying policy on "English" issues without causing concocted frothing re West Lothian Question issue.
So gap year jihadis go away for a spot of rape n pillage, decide that the ones they are raping n pillaging are not the ones they intended to rape n pillage, want to come home and be all cuddly fluffy bunny rabbit again - but their mean nasty overlords who they had no idea were mean n nasty said they couldn't and now they're in a bit of a corner.
You'd need a heart of stone not to laugh.
Or its all bullshit and they are just using it as a pretense to enter the UK and continue their terrorist activities here on the streets of Britain. I'm not convinced by this sudden change of heart, I'm with Socrates. They made their bed and now must lie in it. If they wish to come back they should be charged with treason and locked up for eternity.
Do you realise how much it costs to put someone through prison? It's more than it costs to put them through Eton. I don't want to foot that bill thanks -pull up the drawbridge please.
Wonder if it were a female MP that defected if it would be ok to describe her as the rohypnol taker?
Well if they had, Roger Helmer would have come out in support of the female MP, or not.
Shame you can only see the partisan view of anything, you look very foolish, and aren't funny
, and you are defending an obvious double standard because you are a foolish partisan tory
You're the one who tried to make a partisan point, my point was, UKIP's record when it comes to comments about rape don't always paint the party in a good light.
My point was "would it be ok to call a female defector a rohypnol taker?" How is that partisan?
You are saying that I cant criticise jokes about rape because I vote UKIP and Roger Helmer said something controversial about it??
Not just Roger Helmer, I'm just saying, UKIP can't play the homophobic/sexism card.
Crazy talk
I cant criticise child rape jokes because I vote UKIP? Shows what an idiot you are
Hmm, you appear deeply uncomfortable with the comments by the ex UKIp county councillor and Clacton candidate Roger Lord, even going so far yesterday as to pretend he was actually
Im not that bothered about what he said, a little bit of un PC language is fine by me I just find the flexible standards on here amazing
It seems its ok to joke about rape, child rape particularly. Incredible when you consider the news cycle at the moment
And its just to make a partisan point
And people who love a bit of faux outrage when its their community that are being joked about join in..
Twats
Lord said he was supporting the local Lib Dem actually, I must have misread
Resorting to abuse, when you've lost the argument.
Who do you think you are, MalcolmG?
I haven't lost the argument.
Just because I am the only one saying rape isn't funny while you all laugh about it because UKIP are the target, doesn't mean I am wrong
Where have I said rape is funny.
You haven't, others have and when I criticised them you brought Roger Helmer into it and said UKIP (I me I suppose) couldn't criticise rape
No I said kippers would look hypocritical. It wasn't just Roger Helmer, one of your donors said some interesting things as well. His name escapes me.
They've made their beds. Now they can lie in them.
Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not.
At least we can bomb them out there, rather than spreading their violence back in London.
Yes, that's exactly what the world needs - more terrorism and more bombing. Did you even read the article before your knee jerked or is that a physical impossibility?
As the Times pointed out, these chaps do want to undergo deradicalisation and submit to surveillance.
Perhaps it is the surveillance element Socrates is objecting to.
On what grounds? The cost?
Civil liberties grounds.
You've smartly realised that Cameron will roll out the red carpet, so you're getting your defence in early.
So gap year jihadis go away for a spot of rape n pillage, decide that the ones they are raping n pillaging are not the ones they intended to rape n pillage, want to come home and be all cuddly fluffy bunny rabbit again - but their mean nasty overlords who they had no idea were mean n nasty said they couldn't and now they're in a bit of a corner.
You'd need a heart of stone not to laugh.
Or its all bullshit and they are just using it as a pretense to enter the UK and continue their terrorist activities here on the streets of Britain. I'm not convinced by this sudden change of heart, I'm with Socrates. They made their bed and now must lie in it. If they wish to come back they should be charged with treason and locked up for eternity.
Do you realise how much it costs to put someone through prison? It's more than it costs to put them through Eton. I don't want to foot that bill thanks -pull up the drawbridge please.
A Le Pen presidency would be brilliant for France.
Sure I disagree with pretty much all she says, certanly the protectionist / statist economic policy and the outright nasty social ones - the 'let's get out of the Euro' policy is her only saving grace. But...the French political elite and establishment are ossified beyond belief. They badly need some sort of nuclear explosion to blow away their fusty old worldview and kick 'em in the nuts. This she would deliver in spades.
Vote Fascist! says Patrick.
MLP is not a Fascist. She's hard, traditionalist, ethnocentric right with some rather socialist policies. She's not going to abolish democracy or fire up the ovens.
Overuse of the word Fascist is almost as counter-productive as overuse of the word "racist".
"hard, traditionalist, ethnocentric right with some rather socialist policies" a bit nationalist and a bit socialist ?
Yes, you're correct - spookily like the SNP.
Please do a blog about how the SNP are like the Front National
They've made their beds. Now they can lie in them.
Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not.
At least we can bomb them out there, rather than spreading their violence back in London.
Yes, that's exactly what the world needs - more terrorism and more bombing. Did you even read the article before your knee jerked or is that a physical impossibility?
As the Times pointed out, these chaps do want to undergo deradicalisation and submit to surveillance.
Perhaps it is the surveillance element Socrates is objecting to.
You really believe that after going through a government "deradicalisation course" they'll say "Oh, sorry! I had it all wrong! Western democracy is actually a brilliant thing." They're saying what they know the government wants to hear to get back into the country. The government would be endangering British lives to let them back in.
While that's going to be true of some, there will also be others who arrive in the Middle East not quite realising they are going to be joining a dark ages collective which goes round beheading people for the slightest reasons. That combined with a near constant fear of death, may persuade quite a few that Jihadism sounded more romantic in Rotherham than it turned out to be.
The first Russo-Ukrainian war is over. "Agence France-Presse @AFP · 7m #BREAKING Ukraine, rebels agree ceasefire from Friday: rebels"
Ukraine lost about 1/6th of its airforce and 1/10th of its ground forces. Russia lost about 5% of its ground forces. The russian strategy failed completely as they were always outnumbered (case in point Mariupol 30000 ukranians vs 6000 russians). Russia has gained only 15000 sq. Km with a population of around 3-4 million, including Donetsk and Luhansk cities but I doubt they will keep it in the ceasefire deal.
Overall I declare it an ukrainian victory. Russia will have to exclude the civilian leadership from military affairs if it wants to avoid another defeat like that.
Well lets prepare for the second Russo-Ukrainian war, the ukrainian victory will make both sides more willing to fight another one down the line.
Russia has lost 5 percent of its ground forces? What are you talking about?
So gap year jihadis go away for a spot of rape n pillage, decide that the ones they are raping n pillaging are not the ones they intended to rape n pillage, want to come home and be all cuddly fluffy bunny rabbit again - but their mean nasty overlords who they had no idea were mean n nasty said they couldn't and now they're in a bit of a corner.
You'd need a heart of stone not to laugh.
Or its all bullshit and they are just using it as a pretense to enter the UK and continue their terrorist activities here on the streets of Britain. I'm not convinced by this sudden change of heart, I'm with Socrates. They made their bed and now must lie in it. If they wish to come back they should be charged with treason and locked up for eternity.
A year ago David Cameron wanted to bomb Assad, the person these guys went out originally to fight against.
A Le Pen presidency would be brilliant for France.
Sure I disagree with pretty much all she says, certanly the protectionist / statist economic policy and the outright nasty social ones - the 'let's get out of the Euro' policy is her only saving grace. But...the French political elite and establishment are ossified beyond belief. They badly need some sort of nuclear explosion to blow away their fusty old worldview and kick 'em in the nuts. This she would deliver in spades.
Vote Fascist! says Patrick.
MLP is not a Fascist. She's hard, traditionalist, ethnocentric right with some rather socialist policies. She's not going to abolish democracy or fire up the ovens.
Overuse of the word Fascist is almost as counter-productive as overuse of the word "racist".
"hard, traditionalist, ethnocentric right with some rather socialist policies" a bit nationalist and a bit socialist ?
Yes, you're correct - spookily like the SNP.
Please do a blog about how the SNP are like the Front National
I'm betting it would be one that comments werent allowed on.
The first Russo-Ukrainian war is over. "Agence France-Presse @AFP · 7m #BREAKING Ukraine, rebels agree ceasefire from Friday: rebels"
Ukraine lost about 1/6th of its airforce and 1/10th of its ground forces. Russia lost about 5% of its ground forces. The russian strategy failed completely as they were always outnumbered (case in point Mariupol 30000 ukranians vs 6000 russians). Russia has gained only 15000 sq. Km with a population of around 3-4 million, including Donetsk and Luhansk cities but I doubt they will keep it in the ceasefire deal.
Overall I declare it an ukrainian victory. Russia will have to exclude the civilian leadership from military affairs if it wants to avoid another defeat like that.
Well lets prepare for the second Russo-Ukrainian war, the ukrainian victory will make both sides more willing to fight another one down the line.
Wouldn't expect it to stick yet, the rebels would want to take Mariupol on the southern front where the Kiev forces have collapsed, only lack of men stops them going all the way to Odessa, and also push the Kiev forces further from Donestk and Lugansk in the north before they halt operations.
Difficult position for Poroshenko, elected as a moderate after all, had to cancel the last ceasefire after hardliners threatened to overthrow him. Probably not unhappy to see the National Guard units like Azov etc. being wiped out, the rebels aren't allowing them to leave if they surrender their weapons like they are regular army units. Now more a political battle, rather than physical yet, between moderates and the extreme elements backed by the West at the moment. Hopefully the moderates are able to sideline the hardliners and a lasting agreement is reached, again the West seems to be doing their utmost to stop this and instead inflame tensions.
Engineering the overthrow of Yanukovich and pushing for Ukrainian membership of NATO would lead to a Russian response, the banning of Russian language and a narrow government of Western Ukraine led to an inevitable reaction in Crimea and the East, finally the use of war rather than jaw jaw with the East led to an inevitable defeat. I am no expert and I knew this so it begs the question what did the West think was going to happen? Russians were never going to allow what happened to Serbia happen next door to them, with their kinfolk. Red lines and all.
So gap year jihadis go away for a spot of rape n pillage, decide that the ones they are raping n pillaging are not the ones they intended to rape n pillage, want to come home and be all cuddly fluffy bunny rabbit again - but their mean nasty overlords who they had no idea were mean n nasty said they couldn't and now they're in a bit of a corner.
You'd need a heart of stone not to laugh.
Or its all bullshit and they are just using it as a pretense to enter the UK and continue their terrorist activities here on the streets of Britain. I'm not convinced by this sudden change of heart, I'm with Socrates. They made their bed and now must lie in it. If they wish to come back they should be charged with treason and locked up for eternity.
Do you realise how much it costs to put someone through prison? It's more than it costs to put them through Eton. I don't want to foot that bill thanks -pull up the drawbridge please.
Do you believe Britain should honour international treaties it has signed? Or is the word of the British government no longer something that we should rely on?
Wonder if it were a female MP that defected if it would be ok to describe her as the rohypnol taker?
Well if they had, Roger Helmer would have come out in support of the female MP, or not.
Shame you can only see the partisan view of anything, you look very foolish, and aren't funny
, and you are defending an obvious double standard because you are a foolish partisan tory
You're the one who tried to make a partisan point, my point was, UKIP's record when it comes to comments about rape don't always paint the party in a good light.
Not just Roger Helmer, I'm just saying, UKIP can't play the homophobic/sexism card.
I cant criticise child rape jokes because I vote UKIP? Shows what an idiot you are
Hmm, you appear deeply uncomfortable with the comments by the ex UKIp county councillor and Clacton candidate Roger Lord, even going so far yesterday as to pretend he was actually
d people who love a bit of faux outrage when its their community that are being joked about join in..
Twats
Lord said he was supporting the local Lib Dem actually, I must have misread
Resorting to abuse, when you've lost the argument.
Who do you think you are, MalcolmG?
Where have I said rape is funny.
You haven't, others have and when I criticised them you brought Roger Helmer into it and said UKIP (I me I suppose) couldn't criticise rape
No I said kippers would look hypocritical. It wasn't just Roger Helmer, one of your donors said some interesting things as well. His name escapes me.
I know, the Greek guy
That's as maybe, but it mean I cant comment on it... if Roger Helmer or the Greek doner (kebab joke) said what I did you would have a point
Ken Clarke said similar things to Helmer, I wouldn't pull a Tory on here for saying the opposite to him
Don't see why you feel the need to argue with someone who thinks rape isn't a joking matter
This quote has generated so many comments under the Times article
The British man told researchers: “We came to fight the regime and instead we are involved in gang warfare. It’s not what we came for but if we go back [to Britain] we will go to jail...The man said that he was among a group of fighters, most of them in their early twenties, “a good chunk of whom” were depressed and disillusioned, Mr Maher added.
One concern voiced by a number of jihadists in postings on social media was that if they died fighting other rebels or jihadist groups they might not qualify for martyrdom and its benefits in paradise.
So you go over there to learn how to kill people and get 72 virgins in paradise. Discover they're not the people you wanted to kill - they're just other flavours of Muslims. And now you want to come back and work in Primark again? Or sit on the dole? And in return for all this intended slaughtering/actual slaughtering - you'll attend a training course and be surveilled?
It's laughable. As one wag said "No prospect of pussy in paradise - I want to come home!"
So gap year jihadis go away for a spot of rape n pillage, decide that the ones they are raping n pillaging are not the ones they intended to rape n pillage, want to come home and be all cuddly fluffy bunny rabbit again - but their mean nasty overlords who they had no idea were mean n nasty said they couldn't and now they're in a bit of a corner.
Has noone picked up on the most signifciant post of the week (nay - year)?
Roger has called the referendum for 'no'.
Time for Cameron to turn the lights off in his room and pour the whiskey. Time for punters to get on 'yes'!
I saw it, followed by this
@politicshome: Gordon Brown remains confident of Scots voting 'No' in the upcoming referendum, despite recent surge in 'Yes' support http://t.co/NxPbZSa8oQ
Too depressed to type...
Much as the son of the manse is held in low esteem South of the border, the same is not true north.
Brown is held in higher esteem than Miliband, for example, but then again, so is Cameron....
A Le Pen presidency would be brilliant for France.
Sure I disagree with pretty much all she says, certanly the protectionist / statist economic policy and the outright nasty social ones - the 'let's get out of the Euro' policy is her only saving grace. But...the French political elite and establishment are ossified beyond belief. They badly need some sort of nuclear explosion to blow away their fusty old worldview and kick 'em in the nuts. This she would deliver in spades.
Vote Fascist! says Patrick.
MLP is not a Fascist. She's hard, traditionalist, ethnocentric right with some rather socialist policies. She's not going to abolish democracy or fire up the ovens.
Overuse of the word Fascist is almost as counter-productive as overuse of the word "racist".
As discussed the other day, Le Pen is of the hard left with some nasty social views. Either that or left/right is a completely useless and interpretable term - which in lazy journalistic hands tends to to morph into 'anything nasty is of the right'. Journalistic laziness not usually true of you Sean.
Left: Statist, collectivist, high tax/spend/borrow, nanny owns you and will solve all your problems, 'you didn't build that' Right: Small state, individual rights, sound money/balanced budgets, manage your own life because it's - well - yours, big society
The first Russo-Ukrainian war is over. "Agence France-Presse @AFP · 7m #BREAKING Ukraine, rebels agree ceasefire from Friday: rebels"
Ukraine lost about 1/6th of its airforce and 1/10th of its ground forces. Russia lost about 5% of its ground forces. The russian strategy failed completely as they were always outnumbered (case in point Mariupol 30000 ukranians vs 6000 russians). Russia has gained only 15000 sq. Km with a population of around 3-4 million, including Donetsk and Luhansk cities but I doubt they will keep it in the ceasefire deal.
Overall I declare it an ukrainian victory. Russia will have to exclude the civilian leadership from military affairs if it wants to avoid another defeat like that.
Well lets prepare for the second Russo-Ukrainian war, the ukrainian victory will make both sides more willing to fight another one down the line.
Russia has lost 5 percent of its ground forces? What are you talking about?
I kept a daily record of how many units were lost from each sides.
Ukraine turned the tide early in the summer because they mobilised but the russians did not. As a result the russians suffered great loses until they decided that they had to reinforce their positions in august, but they were still outnumbered about 1 to 4, hence the russian version of the battle of the bulge in Mariupol. The ukrainian air force was effectively grounded by anti aircraft missiles after mid July, but the ground forces took the vast majority of loses after mid august as the russian reinforcements took them by surprise.
Here are 6 lessons from the war:
Lesson 1: Always mobilise as fast as you can. Lesson 2: Put the war ahead of politics. Lesson 3: Anti air missiles can ground a superior air force. Lesson 4: Artillery is still useless. Lesson 5. Mechanised units in large numbers are still the best in a ground war. Lesson 6: Always have enough troops to guard the front.
They've made their beds. Now they can lie in them.
Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not.
At least we can bomb them out there, rather than spreading their violence back in London.
Yes, that's exactly what the world needs - more terrorism and more bombing. Did you even read the article before your knee jerked or is that a physical impossibility?
As the Times pointed out, these chaps do want to undergo deradicalisation and submit to surveillance.
Perhaps it is the surveillance element Socrates is objecting to.
You really believe that after going through a government "deradicalisation course" they'll say "Oh, sorry! I had it all wrong! Western democracy is actually a brilliant thing." They're saying what they know the government wants to hear to get back into the country. The government would be endangering British lives to let them back in.
While that's going to be true of some, there will also be others who arrive in the Middle East not quite realising they are going to be joining a dark ages collective which goes round beheading people for the slightest reasons. That combined with a near constant fear of death, may persuade quite a few that Jihadism sounded more romantic in Rotherham than it turned out to be.
What should we do with these people?
What did they think they were going for -a teddy bears picnic? It has been standard FSA/Al Nusra/ISIS practise to use car bombs, kidnappings, beheadings, rapes, child soldiery, and (yes) wherever possible crude chemical attacks (blamed on Assad of course) since the very beginning of this conflict. And now it's all going a bit pear shaped -Assad winning, Iraqis and Kurds making gains, KSA distancing themselves, being bombed (a bit) by the US, it's all got too much for the poor dears.
Can someone tell me what the intelligent pb-er is meant to think about indyref when we have Roger "the banking crisis will last until lunch" the Retired Tampon Advertiser telling us it will be NO, likewise Mark "Greek GDP will grow by 19% this month" Senior, and rcs "tomorrow China will crash and revert to barter" Smithson, yet we also have his wiser dad calling it for NO and Southam "Romney's Won It" Observer calling it for YES, and Dan "Hodges" calling it for NO, and and and
The wise seem as bewildered as the deluded.
Oi.
At the beginning of this year, I posted my GDP predictions for the year.
I forecast that Ireland, Spain, the UK and the US would all produce much better GDP numbers than were forecast by the OECD.
I forecast that France and China would perform much less well than forecast, and Germany would disappoint slightly.
So gap year jihadis go away for a spot of rape n pillage, decide that the ones they are raping n pillaging are not the ones they intended to rape n pillage, want to come home and be all cuddly fluffy bunny rabbit again - but their mean nasty overlords who they had no idea were mean n nasty said they couldn't and now they're in a bit of a corner.
You'd need a heart of stone not to laugh.
Or its all bullshit and they are just using it as a pretense to enter the UK and continue their terrorist activities here on the streets of Britain. I'm not convinced by this sudden change of heart, I'm with Socrates. They made their bed and now must lie in it. If they wish to come back they should be charged with treason and locked up for eternity.
Do you realise how much it costs to put someone through prison? It's more than it costs to put them through Eton. I don't want to foot that bill thanks -pull up the drawbridge please.
A Le Pen presidency would be brilliant for France.
Sure I disagree with pretty much all she says, certanly the protectionist / statist economic policy and the outright nasty social ones - the 'let's get out of the Euro' policy is her only saving grace. But...the French political elite and establishment are ossified beyond belief. They badly need some sort of nuclear explosion to blow away their fusty old worldview and kick 'em in the nuts. This she would deliver in spades.
Vote Fascist! says Patrick.
Moral bankruptcy of the left, let's have more of the same failed policies of the past 50 years.
Le Pen President and Scotland independent, it's the dream.
Did you also like Le Pen's father?
Yes, more of a Poujadist than his daughter. I am a fan of both though as I am the French, they are very French rightists.
They've made their beds. Now they can lie in them.
Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not.
At least we can bomb them out there, rather than spreading their violence back in London.
Yes, that's exactly what the world needs - more terrorism and more bombing. Did you even read the article before your knee jerked or is that a physical impossibility?
As the Times pointed out, these chaps do want to undergo deradicalisation and submit to surveillance.
Perhaps it is the surveillance element Socrates is objecting to.
You really believe that after going through a government "deradicalisation course" they'll say "Oh, sorry! I had it all wrong! Western democracy is actually a brilliant thing." They're saying what they know the government wants to hear to get back into the country. The government would be endangering British lives to let them back in.
While that's going to be true of some, there will also be others who arrive in the Middle East not quite realising they are going to be joining a dark ages collective which goes round beheading people for the slightest reasons. That combined with a near constant fear of death, may persuade quite a few that Jihadism sounded more romantic in Rotherham than it turned out to be.
Government defeated on bedroom tax then. SNP tsssk
I think most people will recognise this for the Lib Dem posturing that it is. (It's certainly not going to benefit anyone who has their benefit limited but cant find a smaller home to move to.)
I thought that point was at the heart of it. Keep up, Neil.
The first Russo-Ukrainian war is over. "Agence France-Presse @AFP · 7m #BREAKING Ukraine, rebels agree ceasefire from Friday: rebels"
Ukraine lost about 1/6th of its airforce and 1/10th of its ground forces. Russia lost about 5% of its ground forces. The russian strategy failed completely as they were always outnumbered (case in point Mariupol 30000 ukranians vs 6000 russians). Russia has gained only 15000 sq. Km with a population of around 3-4 million, including Donetsk and Luhansk cities but I doubt they will keep it in the ceasefire deal.
Overall I declare it an ukrainian victory. Russia will have to exclude the civilian leadership from military affairs if it wants to avoid another defeat like that.
Well lets prepare for the second Russo-Ukrainian war, the ukrainian victory will make both sides more willing to fight another one down the line.
Russia has lost 5 percent of its ground forces? What are you talking about?
So gap year jihadis go away for a spot of rape n pillage, decide that the ones they are raping n pillaging are not the ones they intended to rape n pillage, want to come home and be all cuddly fluffy bunny rabbit again - but their mean nasty overlords who they had no idea were mean n nasty said they couldn't and now they're in a bit of a corner.
You'd need a heart of stone not to laugh.
Or its all bullshit and they are just using it as a pretense to enter the UK and continue their terrorist activities here on the streets of Britain. I'm not convinced by this sudden change of heart, I'm with Socrates. They made their bed and now must lie in it. If they wish to come back they should be charged with treason and locked up for eternity.
A year ago David Cameron wanted to bomb Assad, the person these guys went out originally to fight against.
They were and are on the same side as Dave
Dave was wrong. It happens, a lot. Dave also hasn't been running around massacring non-Muslim minorities in Iraq and Syria and neither has he pledged allegiance to IS like these guys.
The first Russo-Ukrainian war is over. "Agence France-Presse @AFP · 7m #BREAKING Ukraine, rebels agree ceasefire from Friday: rebels"
Ukraine lost about 1/6th of its airforce and 1/10th of its ground forces. Russia lost about 5% of its ground forces. The russian strategy failed completely as they were always outnumbered (case in point Mariupol 30000 ukranians vs 6000 russians). Russia has gained only 15000 sq. Km with a population of around 3-4 million, including Donetsk and Luhansk cities but I doubt they will keep it in the ceasefire deal.
Overall I declare it an ukrainian victory. Russia will have to exclude the civilian leadership from military affairs if it wants to avoid another defeat like that.
Well lets prepare for the second Russo-Ukrainian war, the ukrainian victory will make both sides more willing to fight another one down the line.
Russia has lost 5 percent of its ground forces? What are you talking about?
I kept a daily record of how many units were lost from each sides.
Ukraine turned the tide early in the summer because they mobilised but the russians did not. As a result the russians suffered great loses until they decided that they had to reinforce their positions in august, but they were still outnumbered about 1 to 4, hence the russian version of the battle of the bulge in Mariupol. The ukrainian air force was effectively grounded by anti aircraft missiles after mid July, but the ground forces took the vast majority of loses after mid august as the russian reinforcements took them by surprise.
Here are 6 lessons from the war:
Lesson 1: Always mobilise as fast as you can. Lesson 2: Put the war ahead of politics. Lesson 3: Anti air missiles can ground a superior air force. Lesson 4: Artillery is still useless. Lesson 5. Mechanised units in large numbers are still the best in a ground war. Lesson 6: Always have enough troops to guard the front.
I take it you're referring to the rebels? I don't think anyone would deny they have been supported by Russia to a greater or lesser extent, but to state that 'Russia' has lost 5 percent of its ground troops is ridiculous. Call them seperatists or something if you wish to denote your dissaproval.
They've made their beds. Now they can lie in them.
Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not.
At least we can bomb them out there, rather than spreading their violence back in London.
Yes, that's exactly what the world needs - more terrorism and more bombing. Did you even read the article before your knee jerked or is that a physical impossibility?
As the Times pointed out, these chaps do want to undergo deradicalisation and submit to surveillance.
Perhaps it is the surveillance element Socrates is objecting to.
You really believe that after going through a government "deradicalisation course" they'll say "Oh, sorry! I had it all wrong! Western democracy is actually a brilliant thing." They're saying what they know the government wants to hear to get back into the country. The government would be endangering British lives to let them back in.
While that's going to be true of some, there will also be others who arrive in the Middle East not quite realising they are going to be joining a dark ages collective which goes round beheading people for the slightest reasons. That combined with a near constant fear of death, may persuade quite a few that Jihadism sounded more romantic in Rotherham than it turned out to be.
A Le Pen presidency would be brilliant for France.
Sure I disagree with pretty much all she says, certanly the protectionist / statist economic policy and the outright nasty social ones - the 'let's get out of the Euro' policy is her only saving grace. But...the French political elite and establishment are ossified beyond belief. They badly need some sort of nuclear explosion to blow away their fusty old worldview and kick 'em in the nuts. This she would deliver in spades.
Vote Fascist! says Patrick.
Moral bankruptcy of the left, let's have more of the same failed policies of the past 50 years.
Le Pen President and Scotland independent, it's the dream.
Did you also like Le Pen's father?
While Marine Le Pen is significantly less bad than her father, many of her closest advisers have publically said things that fit rather better with the BNP than any serious British political party (Conservative, Labour, or UKIP).
And I think a return to outright protectionism in one of our near neighbours would be an utter disaster for the UK and Europe.
Such a shame France does't have a sensible Eurosceptic party like AfD or UKIP.
Obviously UKIP and AfD are far preferable to FN.
But, a French government that was determined to leave the EU and Eurozone would be good news for this country, IMHO.
They've made their beds. Now they can lie in them.
Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not.
At least we can bomb them out there, rather than spreading their violence back in London.
Yes, that's exactly what the world needs - more terrorism and more bombing. Did you even read the article before your knee jerked or is that a physical impossibility?
As the Times pointed out, these chaps do want to undergo deradicalisation and submit to surveillance.
Perhaps it is the surveillance element Socrates is objecting to.
You really believe that after going through a government "deradicalisation course" they'll say "Oh, sorry! I had it all wrong! Western democracy is actually a brilliant thing." They're saying what they know the government wants to hear to get back into the country. The government would be endangering British lives to let them back in.
While that's going to be true of some, there will also be others who arrive in the Middle East not quite realising they are going to be joining a dark ages collective which goes round beheading people for the slightest reasons. That combined with a near constant fear of death, may persuade quite a few that Jihadism sounded more romantic in Rotherham than it turned out to be.
They've made their beds. Now they can lie in them.
Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not.
At least we can bomb them out there, rather than spreading their violence back in London.
Yes, that's exactly what the world needs - more terrorism and more bombing. Did you even read the article before your knee jerked or is that a physical impossibility?
As the Times pointed out, these chaps do want to undergo deradicalisation and submit to surveillance.
Perhaps it is the surveillance element Socrates is objecting to.
You really believe that after going through a government "deradicalisation course" they'll say "Oh, sorry! I had it all wrong! Western democracy is actually a brilliant thing." They're saying what they know the government wants to hear to get back into the country. The government would be endangering British lives to let them back in.
While that's going to be true of some, there will also be others who arrive in the Middle East not quite realising they are going to be joining a dark ages collective which goes round beheading people for the slightest reasons. That combined with a near constant fear of death, may persuade quite a few that Jihadism sounded more romantic in Rotherham than it turned out to be.
What should we do with these people?
Kill them.
Under what legal provision?
just ask the US. Obama and co. seem v. comfortable with extra-judicial killing as long as its overseas
So gap year jihadis go away for a spot of rape n pillage, decide that the ones they are raping n pillaging are not the ones they intended to rape n pillage, want to come home and be all cuddly fluffy bunny rabbit again - but their mean nasty overlords who they had no idea were mean n nasty said they couldn't and now they're in a bit of a corner.
You'd need a heart of stone not to laugh.
Or its all bullshit and they are just using it as a pretense to enter the UK and continue their terrorist activities here on the streets of Britain. I'm not convinced by this sudden change of heart, I'm with Socrates. They made their bed and now must lie in it. If they wish to come back they should be charged with treason and locked up for eternity.
A year ago David Cameron wanted to bomb Assad, the person these guys went out originally to fight against.
They were and are on the same side as Dave
Did Cameron actually condone british citizens to go to Syria and join militias to fight? If he did, he's an idiot. Joining any armed organisation should be viewed unfavourably (especially foreign country's armed forces, since it usually implies swearing an oath of allegiance to that foreign power).
But societal understanding is impossible in the absence of "facts". It's like trying to teach people chemistry, without them knowing about what the basic elements or their properties are. The skills versus knowledge distinction is an entirely foolish one that could only be approved by someone who had lots of conceptual understanding but had never learned about reality.
OK, let's be specific. I don't know who succeeded Queen Anne. In what way does this reduce my societal understanding? If you tell me who it was, how will that improve matters?
Ooh! SCANDAL!
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Comments
Leave them out there to discourage any other waverers.
Sure I disagree with pretty much all she says, certanly the protectionist / statist economic policy and the outright nasty social ones - the 'let's get out of the Euro' policy is her only saving grace. But...the French political elite and establishment are ossified beyond belief. They badly need some sort of nuclear explosion to blow away their fusty old worldview and kick 'em in the nuts. This she would deliver in spades.
Perhaps it is the surveillance element Socrates is objecting to.
http://www.uk-immigrationservices.co.uk/services-ilr.php
Not hard, given the incompetence of UKBA.
(God actually forbid)
Besides, their main gripe is not that they're being forced to kill, but that they're expected to shoot at rivals rather than Assad's forces. Oh, and they're worried about being imprisoned for 40 years for murder if they return to the UK.
Which would be a very good lesson to would-be gap year jihadis.
It's a non starter.
"Aren't these the ones who've decided not to do that?
Leave them out there to discourage any other waverers."
doesn't make sense as an answer to:
"Yes, perfectly sensible, we should actively encourage them to stay out there raping and slaughtering and what not. "
Because they WILL still be out there fighting.
The Indian community isn't without its own set of problems but sexual violence based on race or caste definitely isn't one. I still think more needs to be done for women's rights for Indian women in Britain but compared to the Pakistani community and other Muslim communities it is night and day.
Though it's not a subject I know much about, perhaps there's not much they'd be able to contribute which isn't already well understood through other sources or means.
Reading the comments underneath, it would appear that some people show a remarkable lack of imagination in their choice of insults.
I hope the parties they support are more astute.
Le Pen President and Scotland independent, it's the dream.
(Of course, this all has nothing to do with the individual the original 'joke' was made about.)
Either
a) You're being deliberately controversial or
You'd need a heart of stone not to laugh.
"Agence France-Presse @AFP · 7m
#BREAKING Ukraine, rebels agree ceasefire from Friday: rebels"
Ukraine lost about 1/6th of its airforce and 1/10th of its ground forces. Russia lost about 5% of its ground forces.
The russian strategy failed completely as they were always outnumbered (case in point Mariupol 30000 ukranians vs 6000 russians).
Russia has gained only 15000 sq. Km with a population of around 3-4 million, including Donetsk and Luhansk cities but I doubt they will keep it in the ceasefire deal.
Overall I declare it an ukrainian victory.
Russia will have to exclude the civilian leadership from military affairs if it wants to avoid another defeat like that.
Well lets prepare for the second Russo-Ukrainian war, the ukrainian victory will make both sides more willing to fight another one down the line.
Normally these people do un-Islamic things in their Youth, repent and become full on extremists.
But eventually most of them recant when they realise the futility of their radicalism and how wrong their interpretation of their faith was.
Option C) I agree with them. Allah-u-Ackbar.
And I think a return to outright protectionism in one of our near neighbours would be an utter disaster for the UK and Europe.
Such a shame France does't have a sensible Eurosceptic party like AfD or UKIP.
What should we do with these people?
They were and are on the same side as Dave
Difficult position for Poroshenko, elected as a moderate after all, had to cancel the last ceasefire after hardliners threatened to overthrow him. Probably not unhappy to see the National Guard units like Azov etc. being wiped out, the rebels aren't allowing them to leave if they surrender their weapons like they are regular army units. Now more a political battle, rather than physical yet, between moderates and the extreme elements backed by the West at the moment. Hopefully the moderates are able to sideline the hardliners and a lasting agreement is reached, again the West seems to be doing their utmost to stop this and instead inflame tensions.
Engineering the overthrow of Yanukovich and pushing for Ukrainian membership of NATO would lead to a Russian response, the banning of Russian language and a narrow government of Western Ukraine led to an inevitable reaction in Crimea and the East, finally the use of war rather than jaw jaw with the East led to an inevitable defeat. I am no expert and I knew this so it begs the question what did the West think was going to happen? Russians were never going to allow what happened to Serbia happen next door to them, with their kinfolk. Red lines and all.
That's as maybe, but it mean I cant comment on it... if Roger Helmer or the Greek doner (kebab joke) said what I did you would have a point
Ken Clarke said similar things to Helmer, I wouldn't pull a Tory on here for saying the opposite to him
Don't see why you feel the need to argue with someone who thinks rape isn't a joking matter
It's laughable. As one wag said "No prospect of pussy in paradise - I want to come home!"
Brown is held in higher esteem than Miliband, for example, but then again, so is Cameron....
Left: Statist, collectivist, high tax/spend/borrow, nanny owns you and will solve all your problems, 'you didn't build that'
Right: Small state, individual rights, sound money/balanced budgets, manage your own life because it's - well - yours, big society
Ukraine turned the tide early in the summer because they mobilised but the russians did not.
As a result the russians suffered great loses until they decided that they had to reinforce their positions in august, but they were still outnumbered about 1 to 4, hence the russian version of the battle of the bulge in Mariupol.
The ukrainian air force was effectively grounded by anti aircraft missiles after mid July, but the ground forces took the vast majority of loses after mid august as the russian reinforcements took them by surprise.
Here are 6 lessons from the war:
Lesson 1: Always mobilise as fast as you can.
Lesson 2: Put the war ahead of politics.
Lesson 3: Anti air missiles can ground a superior air force.
Lesson 4: Artillery is still useless.
Lesson 5. Mechanised units in large numbers are still the best in a ground war.
Lesson 6: Always have enough troops to guard the front.
At the beginning of this year, I posted my GDP predictions for the year.
I forecast that Ireland, Spain, the UK and the US would all produce much better GDP numbers than were forecast by the OECD.
I forecast that France and China would perform much less well than forecast, and Germany would disappoint slightly.
I got six out of seven right.
The UK isn't one.
But, a French government that was determined to leave the EU and Eurozone would be good news for this country, IMHO.
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-- Attacked the Royal Family in public comments --
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