I'm sure Richard Nabavi will be along in a moment to say how mass government spying of this stuff is nothing to worry about. We have an independent commissioner, appointed by the PM, don't you know.
No he won't, because it's not mass spying. The article is actually about investigation of one specific alleged crime, together with the standard Guardian/Mail innuendo in an attempt to imply there's a scandal when they have no reason to suppose there is ("Met refuses to say").
I thought you supported the use of surveillance powers in the investigation of specific alleged crimes, so I expect you'll be along shortly to say it is justified in this case.
Cameron's biggest problem in the event of a Yes vote is that Whitehall has purposefully done NO preparation for that eventuality. If there was a fair amount of chaos he'd have a fair bit of explaining to do.
Your proof being?
Or is it simply a big assumption?
“Ministers have said no contingency planning,” Sir Jeremy replied flatly. “Effectively, the government is very confident it’s going to win the argument on this, but in the end it’s a matter for the people of Scotland to decide.” But the Scottish civil service will be planning quite carefully – probably for both eventualities: won’t the UK government be at a disadvantage in any subsequent negotiations? “I don’t believe so, no, because I think we’ll have whatever time is needed to respond to the outcome,” Heywood replied. “But as I say, this is a matter for the Scottish people.”
Can't believe that it hasn't been talked about at least off the record between both the tories and labour. Maybe not in No10 directly, but in dusty smoke filled rooms over a glass of port I bet it has.
'Perhaps some of your staff could revise the existing plans, as a training exercise? No need to trouble the minister'
And Carlotta repeatedly for the next 6 months probably.
Had Lord made the same comment about Cam well it would have been funnier I presume.
Carswell saw the polling and turned his coat to save his own skin - the fanboy love for his party jumping poultroonery is startling.
Is the objection to Carswell's new nickname, less about it's crudeness, and more about what it suggests regarding the actual working relationship between the two?
But societal understanding is impossible in the absence of "facts". It's like trying to teach people chemistry, without them knowing about what the basic elements or their properties are. The skills versus knowledge distinction is an entirely foolish one that could only be approved by someone who had lots of conceptual understanding but had never learned about reality.
OK, let's be specific. I don't know who succeeded Queen Anne. In what way does this reduce my societal understanding? If you tell me who it was, how will that improve matters?
That one fact probably won't make a great deal of difference either way (though I am astonished you didn't know it) but how can one understand where we are unless one understands where we have come from? Without a basic knowledge of British history how can you have "societal understanding"?
Well of course they shouldn't and perhaps the Conservatives in government would acre to explain their re-adoption of the European Arrest Warrant that made it possible. Mind you, I hope the family sue the arse off the idiot in Hampshire Police who actually took out the warrant.
In defence of the police the parents disappeared with a seriously ill child, not having advised anyone that they could fully care for him.
If there was no arrest warrant would the family have been traced any quicker or slower? The police do have other ways of working other than arresting everyone. Cut it anyway you like that arrest was unlawful.
"If there was no arrest warrant would the family have been traced any quicker or slower?"
I don't know. Do you? The obvious alternative would be Interpol, but I've no idea of their responsiveness in such missing-child cases.
The most recent case I can think of was the Jeremy Forrest case; he was the teacher who ran away to France with a 15-year old pupil. It is a different case, but also one where the welfare of a child was paramount. In that case, it was reported that the French police would make no effort to arrest the teacher. In the end he was arrested under an EAW and extradited.
As I keep on saying: we've only got one side of the story here, and the family's side of the story is slightly odd, to say the least.
@TheScreamingEagles Lord Mayor of London Fiona Woolf has replaced Lady Butler-Sloss as head of the UK government inquiry into historical child abuse. Ms Woolf is a tax lawyer and past president of the Law Society. She will head an inquiry panel including child abuse experts and at least one victim of abuse. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29076504
And Carlotta repeatedly for the next 6 months probably.
Had Lord made the same comment about Cam well it would have been funnier I presume.
Carswell saw the polling and turned his coat to save his own skin - the fanboy love for his party jumping poultroonery is startling.
Is the objection to Carswell's new nickname, less about it's crudeness, and more about what it suggests regarding the actual working relationship between the two?
Nationalists don't like any sort of criticism of their leaders - none - crude or not.
Lib Dems doing what Lib Dems do best - opportunism!
Have you seen this?
I mean I was shocked to find out that the Greens weren't a bunch of lefties.
Green party to position itself as the real left of UK politics - Labour has failed to oppose the Tories and Lib Dems on key issues, Caroline Lucas to tell conference
On topic: it would be mildly annoying if Boris didnt get selected because I've already spent the winnings on the "free" money Paddy Power was giving away on this market. Mind you I could have spent it in a pound shop I got so little on.
And Carlotta repeatedly for the next 6 months probably.
Well, it's a change from indyref.
I was impressed by the very deep cover of the MI5/No supporter egg thrower in Kirkaldy! They even went to the trouble of having him post something on the Yes website in 2012 and then removing it in the last few days!
Lib Dems doing what Lib Dems do best - opportunism!
Have you seen this?
I mean I was shocked to find out that the Greens weren't a bunch of lefties.
Green party to position itself as the real left of UK politics - Labour has failed to oppose the Tories and Lib Dems on key issues, Caroline Lucas to tell conference
"The Green party is positioning itself as the “real opposition” to the coalition, opening up a bitter fight with Labour on the left wing of UK politics, as the party’s key figures prepare to contest general election seats in parliament."
Amazingly, the generation educated under New Labour do badly on the test, while previous generations do a lot better.
The old have more wisdom than the young shock. Nothing new there.
When I speak to older people I'm often struck by how many say their school days were a waste of time for them, they hated it and the teachers couldn't wait to get rid of them. In some cases they've educated themselves as adults to a reasonable level. A golden age of education? Not convinced.
I'm not saying it was a golden age of education. I'm saying it was a basic age of education. Seriously, not knowing that Florence Nightingale was a nurse, or that stonehenge was the stone age site, or that St David is the patron saint of Wales? These are basic facts that I knew at 14. And that's before you get to the truly idiotic questions like "True or false: there are language variations across the UK" or "True of false: British values are based on history and tradition"...
Some strike me as quite difficult or just odd. British overseas territories - Falkands and, er...Cyprus? St Helena? Really? Where did textile firms recruit 70 years ago? Who were the main parties in the 18th century? Who succeeded Queen Anne? What was the plague called in 1348? Do we really care if either British-born kids or immigrants know ANY of these answers that I'm quoting? I know Socrates does but really, are these the most important things for new Brits to know?
No, they're not the most important things for Brits to know. But they are hints of whether you have a deeper knowledge of the evolution of the British state and society. The way you form a common nation is for everyone to have an understanding that we're all part of the same community with the same intellectual roots and heritage. You on the left entirely dismiss this, preferring immigrants to learn how they can best claim benefits instead, and then seem surprised when civic society declines and people feel alienated from one another. Or, you know, when large swathes of Britain come close to declaring independence.
Enabling someone to have a well-stocked mind, and to be capable of thinking, seems to me to be the most important feature of an educational system.
I'm sure Richard Nabavi will be along in a moment to say how mass government spying of this stuff is nothing to worry about. We have an independent commissioner, appointed by the PM, don't you know.
No he won't, because it's not mass spying. The article is actually about investigation of one specific alleged crime, together with the standard Guardian/Mail innuendo in an attempt to imply there's a scandal when they have no reason to suppose there is ("Met refuses to say").
I thought you supported the use of surveillance powers in the investigation of specific alleged crimes, so I expect you'll be along shortly to say it is justified in this case.
In the investigation of specific alleged crimes, WITH A WARRANT.
Well of course they shouldn't and perhaps the Conservatives in government would acre to explain their re-adoption of the European Arrest Warrant that made it possible. Mind you, I hope the family sue the arse off the idiot in Hampshire Police who actually took out the warrant.
In defence of the police the parents disappeared with a seriously ill child, not having advised anyone that they could fully care for him.
If there was no arrest warrant would the family have been traced any quicker or slower? The police do have other ways of working other than arresting everyone. Cut it anyway you like that arrest was unlawful.
As I keep on saying: we've only got one side of the story here, and the family's side of the story is slightly odd, to say the least.
Their claim to believe that English law permits you to do anything you like which is not a crime at common law or under statute? Very fishy, I agree.
Ray says: "The market for my skills dried up 10 years ago - there's a total lack of work in my area of expertise."
The couple share their home with six of their children - their five-year-old son, Raymond's twin girls from his first marriage, and three of his wife's four children from an earlier relationship.
Call me old fashioned, but one would have thought being responsible for that many kids would have motivated him to retrain. He's had a decade to think about what to do...
Given a pack of 20 costs about 8 quid, that's 80 per week on cigs..
Bloody hell.
Not to mention another £17 or thereabouts for 50 gms of hand-rolling tobacco and you're up to almost a hundred quid per week ...... all up in smoke!
Money to burn
What gross salaried income would you need to have that guy's £30k plus net spendable income? About £40k or so? That right there is why he can't be arsed to work; in IT in north Wales he can never match in work what he can claim in benefits.
With that said people like him aren't the problem AIUI. The biggest element of the welfare bills is pensions followed by in-work benefits.
Lib Dems doing what Lib Dems do best - opportunism!
Have you seen this?
I mean I was shocked to find out that the Greens weren't a bunch of lefties.
Green party to position itself as the real left of UK politics - Labour has failed to oppose the Tories and Lib Dems on key issues, Caroline Lucas to tell conference
"The Green party is positioning itself as the “real opposition” to the coalition, opening up a bitter fight with Labour on the left wing of UK politics, as the party’s key figures prepare to contest general election seats in parliament."
There's certainly an opening for a party to the Left of Labour. I'd say that the Greens' problem, though, is that they're too narrowly based on the university cities to be that party.
But societal understanding is impossible in the absence of "facts". It's like trying to teach people chemistry, without them knowing about what the basic elements or their properties are. The skills versus knowledge distinction is an entirely foolish one that could only be approved by someone who had lots of conceptual understanding but had never learned about reality.
OK, let's be specific. I don't know who succeeded Queen Anne. In what way does this reduce my societal understanding? If you tell me who it was, how will that improve matters?
That one fact alone doesn't improve matters. But it is a sign that you don't know about the Hannoverian succession, and the emergence of cabinet government that followed. And if you don't know about that, it's a sign you don't really understand British constitutional history and the relevant liberties. You'd end up thinking that there's nothing culturally special about the British, want to hand us over to a European superstate, and approve of illiberal continental schemes like ID cards.
It always strikes me that these debates on educating kids/immigrants about Britain get pretty binary and neither spectrum end is correct. As always its about balance
It relates to the last couple of sentences in Roger Lord's informative piece indicating Ukip has now fully become a party of The Establishment,cares little for its' grassroots and undermines Carswell's claims to be a true democrat.Carswell is an obvious out-of-touch intellectual of the political class,a little more obvious than Farage.
"The market for my skills dried up 10 years ago - there's a total lack of work in my area of expertise."
You'd think someone who wasn't a lazy bastard might think of retraining rather than leeching off the state. For God's sake, the software sector is booming - it wouldn't take much to move from educational software to an adjacent area of programming.
But societal understanding is impossible in the absence of "facts". It's like trying to teach people chemistry, without them knowing about what the basic elements or their properties are. The skills versus knowledge distinction is an entirely foolish one that could only be approved by someone who had lots of conceptual understanding but had never learned about reality.
OK, let's be specific. I don't know who succeeded Queen Anne. In what way does this reduce my societal understanding? If you tell me who it was, how will that improve matters?
That one fact probably won't make a great deal of difference either way (though I am astonished you didn't know it) but how can one understand where we are unless one understands where we have come from? Without a basic knowledge of British history how can you have "societal understanding"?
British history can plausibly be viewed as a relentless litany of prejudice, discrimination and violence against people for being catholic, protestant, black, Irish, Scottish, gay, divorced, Jewish or unmarried mothers. Not sure we want to look much further back than the RRA 1977 or Sexual Offences Act 1967 if we are billing history as a pageant of liberal values.
I don't know who succeeded Anne either - might have been a George? Or Williamnmary?
Lib Dems doing what Lib Dems do best - opportunism!
Have you seen this?
I mean I was shocked to find out that the Greens weren't a bunch of lefties.
Green party to position itself as the real left of UK politics - Labour has failed to oppose the Tories and Lib Dems on key issues, Caroline Lucas to tell conference
"The Green party is positioning itself as the “real opposition” to the coalition, opening up a bitter fight with Labour on the left wing of UK politics, as the party’s key figures prepare to contest general election seats in parliament."
There's certainly an opening for a party to the Left of Labour. I'd say that the Greens' problem, though, is that they're too narrowly based on the university cities to be that party.
On the other hand they're less inclined to self-destruct than every other left-of-Labour set-up that has come and gone in this country over the last 50 years. I would have thought the limit to their support is the same as we generally see in other European countries with similar numbers of well-off professionals (and in PR elections they often get close to that).
Looks like they have picked Fiona Woolf to replace Baroness Butler-Sloss to chair the historic child abuse allegations.
She's a former President of the Law Society.
Cue rush to dig up any dirt on her...
Quite – read her wiki entry when the news was first announced, she appears to be quite a successful lady at the top of her chosen profession. – surprised she is only a CBE, such an oversight no doubt will soon be corrected.
And Carlotta repeatedly for the next 6 months probably.
Had Lord made the same comment about Cam well it would have been funnier I presume.
Carswell saw the polling and turned his coat to save his own skin - the fanboy love for his party jumping poultroonery is startling.
Is the objection to Carswell's new nickname, less about it's crudeness, and more about what it suggests regarding the actual working relationship between the two?
Seems to me, to take the prison analogy further, that at some point there'll be a confrontation between Bottler and Prison Soap involving two snooker balls in a sock, ending with one asking rhetorically, "Oo's the daddy now?" - but you'd have to have seen Scum to follow this....
But societal understanding is impossible in the absence of "facts". It's like trying to teach people chemistry, without them knowing about what the basic elements or their properties are. The skills versus knowledge distinction is an entirely foolish one that could only be approved by someone who had lots of conceptual understanding but had never learned about reality.
OK, let's be specific. I don't know who succeeded Queen Anne. In what way does this reduce my societal understanding? If you tell me who it was, how will that improve matters?
That one fact probably won't make a great deal of difference either way (though I am astonished you didn't know it) but how can one understand where we are unless one understands where we have come from? Without a basic knowledge of British history how can you have "societal understanding"?
Anyone who uses the word "societal" when they mean "social" (and "comedic" when they mean "comic") would fail that test on the spot.
And Carlotta repeatedly for the next 6 months probably.
Had Lord made the same comment about Cam well it would have been funnier I presume.
Carswell saw the polling and turned his coat to save his own skin - the fanboy love for his party jumping poultroonery is startling.
Is the objection to Carswell's new nickname, less about it's crudeness, and more about what it suggests regarding the actual working relationship between the two?
Seems to me, to take the prison analogy further, that at some point there'll be a confrontation between Bottler and Prison Soap involving two snooker balls in a sock, ending with one asking rhetorically, "Oo's the daddy now?" - but you'd have to have seen Scum to follow this....
But societal understanding is impossible in the absence of "facts". It's like trying to teach people chemistry, without them knowing about what the basic elements or their properties are. The skills versus knowledge distinction is an entirely foolish one that could only be approved by someone who had lots of conceptual understanding but had never learned about reality.
OK, let's be specific. I don't know who succeeded Queen Anne. In what way does this reduce my societal understanding? If you tell me who it was, how will that improve matters?
That one fact probably won't make a great deal of difference either way (though I am astonished you didn't know it) but how can one understand where we are unless one understands where we have come from? Without a basic knowledge of British history how can you have "societal understanding"?
Anyone who uses the word "societal" when they mean "social" (and "comedic" when they mean "comic") would fail that test on the spot.
It's a tragedic misuse of the language.
The pair of them should steer clear of any greenhouses.
Lib Dems doing what Lib Dems do best - opportunism!
Have you seen this?
I mean I was shocked to find out that the Greens weren't a bunch of lefties.
Green party to position itself as the real left of UK politics - Labour has failed to oppose the Tories and Lib Dems on key issues, Caroline Lucas to tell conference
"The Green party is positioning itself as the “real opposition” to the coalition, opening up a bitter fight with Labour on the left wing of UK politics, as the party’s key figures prepare to contest general election seats in parliament."
There's certainly an opening for a party to the Left of Labour. I'd say that the Greens' problem, though, is that they're too narrowly based on the university cities to be that party.
I think that it's different in different places - in "traditional" Labour areas the party to the left of Labour is the TUSC, in metropolitan / University cities it is the Greens. Means that the Greens have a natural limit to growth though, but they are far too socially liberal to ever do well in 'traditional' Labour areas which are quite socially conservative (and hence attracted to UKIP in some ways)
Mr. Socrates, point of order: I don't know who succeeded Queen Anne (far too modern) but that doesn't stop a reasonable chap being against the eurofederalist nonsense or the disgrace of ID cards and their monstrous database.
Also, if this guy has been unemployed for 13 years, how come they have had what it sounds like are two further children during that time, having already had four kids to feed?
Well of course they shouldn't and perhaps the Conservatives in government would acre to explain their re-adoption of the European Arrest Warrant that made it possible. Mind you, I hope the family sue the arse off the idiot in Hampshire Police who actually took out the warrant.
In defence of the police the parents disappeared with a seriously ill child, not having advised anyone that they could fully care for him.
If there was no arrest warrant would the family have been traced any quicker or slower? The police do have other ways of working other than arresting everyone. Cut it anyway you like that arrest was unlawful.
As I keep on saying: we've only got one side of the story here, and the family's side of the story is slightly odd, to say the least.
Their claim to believe that English law permits you to do anything you like which is not a crime at common law or under statute? Very fishy, I agree.
You are coming to conclusions based on one biased side of the story. You might be right; alternatively, the police and hospital may have been acting lawfully and with good intent at every stage.
And Carlotta repeatedly for the next 6 months probably.
Had Lord made the same comment about Cam well it would have been funnier I presume.
Carswell saw the polling and turned his coat to save his own skin - the fanboy love for his party jumping poultroonery is startling.
Is the objection to Carswell's new nickname, less about it's crudeness, and more about what it suggests regarding the actual working relationship between the two?
Seems to me, to take the prison analogy further, that at some point there'll be a confrontation between Bottler and Prison Soap involving two snooker balls in a sock, ending with one asking rhetorically, "Oo's the daddy now?" - but you'd have to have seen Scum to follow this....
OK, let's be specific. I don't know who succeeded Queen Anne. In what way does this reduce my societal understanding? If you tell me who it was, how will that improve matters?
That one fact probably won't make a great deal of difference either way (though I am astonished you didn't know it) but how can one understand where we are unless one understands where we have come from? Without a basic knowledge of British history how can you have "societal understanding"?
Anyone who uses the word "societal" when they mean "social" (and "comedic" when they mean "comic") would fail that test on the spot.
It's a tragedic misuse of the language.
The pair of them should steer clear of any greenhouses.
I certainly wouldn't go into one in front of Nigel...
"The market for my skills dried up 10 years ago - there's a total lack of work in my area of expertise."
You'd think someone who wasn't a lazy bastard might think of retraining rather than leeching off the state. For God's sake, the software sector is booming - it wouldn't take much to move from educational software to an adjacent area of programming.
After 10 years, it's probably less hassle to crack open another tin, and clamber aboard the Mrs after a couple of smokes.
But societal understanding is impossible in the absence of "facts". It's like trying to teach people chemistry, without them knowing about what the basic elements or their properties are. The skills versus knowledge distinction is an entirely foolish one that could only be approved by someone who had lots of conceptual understanding but had never learned about reality.
OK, let's be specific. I don't know who succeeded Queen Anne. In what way does this reduce my societal understanding? If you tell me who it was, how will that improve matters?
That one fact probably won't make a great deal of difference either way (though I am astonished you didn't know it) but how can one understand where we are unless one understands where we have come from? Without a basic knowledge of British history how can you have "societal understanding"?
British history can plausibly be viewed as a relentless litany of prejudice, discrimination and violence against people for being catholic, protestant, black, Irish, Scottish, gay, divorced, Jewish or unmarried mothers. Not sure we want to look much further back than the RRA 1977 or Sexual Offences Act 1967 if we are billing history as a pageant of liberal values.
I don't know who succeeded Anne either - might have been a George? Or Williamnmary?
It could be. But, there's rather more to British history than that.
Lib Dems doing what Lib Dems do best - opportunism!
Have you seen this?
I mean I was shocked to find out that the Greens weren't a bunch of lefties.
Green party to position itself as the real left of UK politics - Labour has failed to oppose the Tories and Lib Dems on key issues, Caroline Lucas to tell conference
"The Green party is positioning itself as the “real opposition” to the coalition, opening up a bitter fight with Labour on the left wing of UK politics, as the party’s key figures prepare to contest general election seats in parliament."
There's certainly an opening for a party to the Left of Labour. I'd say that the Greens' problem, though, is that they're too narrowly based on the university cities to be that party.
I think that it's different in different places - in "traditional" Labour areas the party to the left of Labour is the TUSC
That's a misunderstanding of how the micro sectarian left works. They are no more based in the working class than the Greens are. And it's due to split in the next year or so anyway.
I don't smoke, but have nothing against it = but aren't fags about £7 a packet? That's £70 pw or £280 a month. It's a huge sum. And 96 tins of lager? Another £100 for the cheapest brands?
Call me parsimonious, but almost £400 on such items seems excessive.
Not to mention, getting retrained or moving to somewhere with the skills he has.
Ray says: "The market for my skills dried up 10 years ago - there's a total lack of work in my area of expertise."
The couple share their home with six of their children - their five-year-old son, Raymond's twin girls from his first marriage, and three of his wife's four children from an earlier relationship.
Call me old fashioned, but one would have thought being responsible for that many kids would have motivated him to retrain. He's had a decade to think about what to do...
Mr. Socrates, point of order: I don't know who succeeded Queen Anne (far too modern) but that doesn't stop a reasonable chap being against the eurofederalist nonsense or the disgrace of ID cards and their monstrous database.
Fair enough, but decent chaps like yourself have a good grounding in older parts of British history!
And Carlotta repeatedly for the next 6 months probably.
Had Lord made the same comment about Cam well it would have been funnier I presume.
Carswell saw the polling and turned his coat to save his own skin - the fanboy love for his party jumping poultroonery is startling.
Is the objection to Carswell's new nickname, less about it's crudeness, and more about what it suggests regarding the actual working relationship between the two?
Seems to me, to take the prison analogy further, that at some point there'll be a confrontation between Bottler and Prison Soap involving two snooker balls in a sock, ending
But societal understanding is impossible in the absence of "facts". It's like trying to teach people chemistry, without them knowing about what the basic elements or their properties are. The skills versus knowledge distinction is an entirely foolish one that could only be approved by someone who had lots of conceptual understanding but had never learned about reality.
OK, let's be specific. I don't know who succeeded Queen Anne. In what way does this reduce my societal understanding? If you tell me who it was, how will that improve matters?
That one fact probably won't make a great deal of difference either way (though I am astonished you didn't know it) but how can one understand where we are unless one understands where we have come from? Without a basic knowledge of British history how can you have "societal understanding"?
Anyone who uses the word "societal" when they mean "social" (and "comedic" when they mean "comic") would fail that test on the spot.
It's a tragedic misuse of the language.
The pair of them should steer clear of any greenhouses.
That statement gets better and better. I can just imagine him saying it. And meaning it. Moustache bristling and shoes gleaming. TBH, I think he's right. What marvellously colourful language!
"In the past few days these concepts of trust and anger have been to the fore as I think about Nigel Farage after many years of friendship and support on my part. Hatred is not part of my nature, anger I admit is there. The loss of trust is irreplaceable. Can anyone really trust him? Would you really sign a treaty with this man?
I have met people with whom I totally and passionately disagree, but there is a degree of trust because I know where they stand. What do I think of Farage? Well it now seems that he has replaced democracy with his casting couch. Apparently if you fit the bill he will slip you into the position of his choice. Now that Douglas Carswell is Nigel’s bitch, he will perpetually be picking up the political equivalent of prison soap. Trust me on that one."
As for professional scroungers happy to mooch about on benefits, the cap should be lowered to £19,000, or less. Children are a responsibility, not a means to extort the taxpayer.
But societal understanding is impossible in the absence of "facts". It's like trying to teach people chemistry, without them knowing about what the basic elements or their properties are. The skills versus knowledge distinction is an entirely foolish one that could only be approved by someone who had lots of conceptual understanding but had never learned about reality.
OK, let's be specific. I don't know who succeeded Queen Anne. In what way does this reduce my societal understanding? If you tell me who it was, how will that improve matters?
That one fact probably won't make a great deal of difference either way (though I am astonished you didn't know it) but how can one understand where we are unless one understands where we have come from? Without a basic knowledge of British history how can you have "societal understanding"?
British history can plausibly be viewed as a relentless litany of prejudice, discrimination and violence against people for being catholic, protestant, black, Irish, Scottish, gay, divorced, Jewish or unmarried mothers. Not sure we want to look much further back than the RRA 1977 or Sexual Offences Act 1967 if we are billing history as a pageant of liberal values.
I don't know who succeeded Anne either - might have been a George? Or Williamnmary?
The arc of the moral universe bends towards justice, and British liberal democratic constitutionalism was a long gradual process. Do you really think it's not worth looking back on the suffragettes or the abolitionists? The problem with a citizenry that has no idea of its roots, is that young people take it all for granted. Rather than realise how far we've come, and how such leaps forward for human justice take long, hard slogs against opposition, they instead just riot and complain about the "feds" oppressing them.
In the investigation of specific alleged crimes, WITH A WARRANT.
Yes, I agree with you on that, for this kind of criminal investigation. There seems no reason why it shouldn't be a judge/magistrate who authorises it rather than a senior police officer.
However, a judge/magistrate would authorise it, so it's hard to claim there's some major problem here in practice.
@TheScreamingEagles Lord Mayor of London Fiona Woolf has replaced Lady Butler-Sloss as head of the UK government inquiry into historical child abuse. Ms Woolf is a tax lawyer and past president of the Law Society. She will head an inquiry panel including child abuse experts and at least one victim of abuse. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29076504
The head of the City of London corporation? That'll satisfy the conspiracy nuts.
Lib Dems doing what Lib Dems do best - opportunism!
Have you seen this?
I mean I was shocked to find out that the Greens weren't a bunch of lefties.
Green party to position itself as the real left of UK politics - Labour has failed to oppose the Tories and Lib Dems on key issues, Caroline Lucas to tell conference
"The Green party is positioning itself as the “real opposition” to the coalition, opening up a bitter fight with Labour on the left wing of UK politics, as the party’s key figures prepare to contest general election seats in parliament."
There's certainly an opening for a party to the Left of Labour. I'd say that the Greens' problem, though, is that they're too narrowly based on the university cities to be that party.
On the other hand they're less inclined to self-destruct than every other left-of-Labour set-up that has come and gone in this country over the last 50 years. I would have thought the limit to their support is the same as we generally see in other European countries with similar numbers of well-off professionals (and in PR elections they often get close to that).
In 2001 the Left had an "Alliance", by 2005 it was a "Unity Coalition", to which was added simply a "Coalition" in 2010 and there now appears to be merely "Unity" heading towards 2015.
I would have thought there were more words in English to describe an organisation formed from constituent parts that despise each other and which is destined to fall apart in the near-future, but they seem to have made use of only three. One assumes that the "United Alliance" will contest the 2020 general election...
"The market for my skills dried up 10 years ago - there's a total lack of work in my area of expertise."
You'd think someone who wasn't a lazy bastard might think of retraining rather than leeching off the state. For God's sake, the software sector is booming - it wouldn't take much to move from educational software to an adjacent area of programming.
After 10 years, it's probably less hassle to crack open another tin, and clamber aboard the Mrs after a couple of smokes.
He's being rational. He gets £30k+ net in benefits which is equivalent to £40k in gross salary if he were earning.
Let's say that £40k would need to be £42k, if we assume some cost of clothing yourself for a workplace and travelling to and from it.
So in the base case he can make £42k a year sitting on his bottom smoking and procreating. If he works he might make perhaps £45k a year doing what he used to do. All he gains by working is the post-tax difference between those numbers. The difference is about £2k a year, or less than £1 an hour.
He'd be mad to work for £1 an hour. I wouldn't.
I would think the rationale for having another child 5 years ago while on the dole was the child benefit. In effect, by doing that he got a raise.
Lib Dems doing what Lib Dems do best - opportunism!
Have you seen this?
I mean I was shocked to find out that the Greens weren't a bunch of lefties.
Green party to position itself as the real left of UK politics - Labour has failed to oppose the Tories and Lib Dems on key issues, Caroline Lucas to tell conference
"The Green party is positioning itself as the “real opposition” to the coalition, opening up a bitter fight with Labour on the left wing of UK politics, as the party’s key figures prepare to contest general election seats in parliament."
There's certainly an opening for a party to the Left of Labour. I'd say that the Greens' problem, though, is that they're too narrowly based on the university cities to be that party.
I think that it's different in different places - in "traditional" Labour areas the party to the left of Labour is the TUSC
That's a misunderstanding of how the micro sectarian left works. They are no more based in the working class than the Greens are. And it's due to split in the next year or so anyway.
Fair enough - clearly just the couple of TUSC members that I happen to have met / debated against in Lambeth then. (Genuinely ex Trade Unionist, Council Estate types)
I don't smoke, but have nothing against it = but aren't fags about £7 a packet? That's £70 pw or £280 a month. It's a huge sum. And 96 tins of lager? Another £100 for the cheapest brands?
Call me parsimonious, but almost £400 on such items seems excessive.
Not to mention, getting retrained or moving to somewhere with the skills he has.
Ray says: "The market for my skills dried up 10 years ago - there's a total lack of work in my area of expertise."
The couple share their home with six of their children - their five-year-old son, Raymond's twin girls from his first marriage, and three of his wife's four children from an earlier relationship.
Call me old fashioned, but one would have thought being responsible for that many kids would have motivated him to retrain. He's had a decade to think about what to do...
What struck me as rather odd about the article was that when you top up the booze, fags, baccy and sky subscription, despite being married with x number of kids, the old boy appears to spend a sizable chunk on himself. - #lazygreedysod
Oh, and for the record. It was George I. The man's split between Hannover and Britain meant that he needed to heavily rely on a cabinet of advisers, which led to the emergence of Robert Walpole as the first Prime Minister.
William and Mary were from a generation earlier in the Glorious Revolution, after the dreadful absolutist James II got chased out the country. It was the founding of constitutional monarchy in this country.
Mr. Socrates, point of order: I don't know who succeeded Queen Anne (far too modern) but that doesn't stop a reasonable chap being against the eurofederalist nonsense or the disgrace of ID cards and their monstrous database.
As for professional scroungers happy to mooch about on benefits, the cap should be lowered to £19,000, or less. Children are a responsibility, not a means to extort the taxpayer.
The benefit cap is a blunt instrument. If you had a hard working mother in employment with five children because her husband got hit by a car, it's possible you might need that much. The answer here is to combine child tax credit and child benefit (is IDS doing this?) and base the amount on whether you're working, looking for work, or doing neither.
Wonder if it were a female MP that defected if it would be ok to describe her as the rohypnol taker?
Well if they had, Roger Helmer would have come out in support of the female MP, or not.
Shame you can only see the partisan view of anything, you look very foolish, and aren't funny
Just shows how people play the man not the ball. Last night @NickPalmer made a remark about how the influence of America was ruining tv interviews.. I am sure there are many different types of American tv hosts, but Nick played on the stereotype. Fair enough, but if someone were to say the same about Pakistanis or Romanians, there would be faux outrage here..
Today people are making comparisons between political defection and child rape.. .its ok because its UKIP, and you are defending an obvious double standard because you are a foolish partisan tory
Wonder if it were a female MP that defected if it would be ok to describe her as the rohypnol taker?
Well if they had, Roger Helmer would have come out in support of the female MP, or not.
Shame you can only see the partisan view of anything, you look very foolish, and aren't funny
Just shows how people play the man not the ball. Last night @NickPalmer made a remark about how the influence of America was ruining tv interviews.. I am sure there are many different types of American tv hosts, but Nick played on the stereotype. Fair enough, but if someone were to say the same about Pakistanis or Romanians, there would be faux outrage here..
Today people are making comparisons between political defection and child rape.. .its ok because its UKIP, and you are defending an obvious double standard because you are a foolish partisan tory
You're the one who tried to make a partisan point, my point was, UKIP's record when it comes to comments about rape don't always paint the party in a good light.
That statement gets better and better. I can just imagine him saying it. And meaning it. Moustache bristling and shoes gleaming. TBH, I think he's right. What marvellously colourful language!
"In the past few days these concepts of trust and anger have been to the fore as I think about Nigel Farage after many years of friendship and support on my part. Hatred is not part of my nature, anger I admit is there. The loss of trust is irreplaceable. Can anyone really trust him? Would you really sign a treaty with this man?
I have met people with whom I totally and passionately disagree, but there is a degree of trust because I know where they stand. What do I think of Farage? Well it now seems that he has replaced democracy with his casting couch. Apparently if you fit the bill he will slip you into the position of his choice. Now that Douglas Carswell is Nigel’s bitch, he will perpetually be picking up the political equivalent of prison soap. Trust me on that one."
People do seem to be taking particular exception to it, but at least Roger continues to add to the Gaiety of the Nation - and Mr Carswell must be grinding his teeth at knowing four words that are almost certain to make it into his obituary......
"The market for my skills dried up 10 years ago - there's a total lack of work in my area of expertise."
You'd think someone who wasn't a lazy bastard might think of retraining rather than leeching off the state. For God's sake, the software sector is booming - it wouldn't take much to move from educational software to an adjacent area of programming.
After 10 years, it's probably less hassle to crack open another tin, and clamber aboard the Mrs after a couple of smokes.
I'm intrigued by two things:
1) What an "educational software writer" is; it's not a term I can recall coming across before, and a quick trawl of the usual jobs sites reveal no obvious hits. I wonder if it is his description, or one on a sub-editor (this article has appeared before in February in the Telegraph and Mail), as my first piece of advice would be to give himself a better job description. "Educational software engineer" would be better or, if it was less software based, "Educational writer". Both of these have lots of hits on the jobs sites.
In fact, if you enter "educational software writer" into Google, four variants of this story are in the first ten hits. It's not a widely-known role.
2) Why someone in software could not learn adjacent skills; they are fairly transferable, and he apparently has time to learn.
I do have some sympathy with such people: long-term worklessness can be hard to break out of. But he needs to help himself. It's not like he's an ex-miner: if he has a computer he can learn.
Must admit, after I mentioned it here I was thinking of not bothering finishing it off, but the replies here (which surprised me) persuaded me it was worth completing.
Ray says: "The market for my skills dried up 10 years ago - there's a total lack of work in my area of expertise."
The couple share their home with six of their children - their five-year-old son, Raymond's twin girls from his first marriage, and three of his wife's four children from an earlier relationship.
Call me old fashioned, but one would have thought being responsible for that many kids would have motivated him to retrain. He's had a decade to think about what to do...
Given a pack of 20 costs about 8 quid, that's 80 per week on cigs..
Bloody hell.
Not to mention another £17 or thereabouts for 50 gms of hand-rolling tobacco and you're up to almost a hundred quid per week ...... all up in smoke!
Smokers tend to smoke the same brand it is rare to find someone who smokes tailor-mades and roll-ups. In fact it is probably unique except for one group - those who like to mix something else in with their smoke. Anyone know the street price of cannabis these days?
That thought occurred to me, but I thought I'd let someone else post it!
I really don't see what the fuss is about. Mr Lord managed to create a very vivid little mental picture when crowbarring *casting couch* and *prison soap* into a quote.
I look forward to similar contributions from him. I wouldn't mind if he joined the Tories to be honest. Far too much PCness abounds.
That statement gets better and better. I can just imagine him saying it. And meaning it. Moustache bristling and shoes gleaming. TBH, I think he's right. What marvellously colourful language!
I have met people with whom I totally and passionately disagree, but there is a degree of trust because I know where they stand. What do I think of Farage? Well it now seems that he has replaced democracy with his casting couch. Apparently if you fit the bill he will slip you into the position of his choice. Now that Douglas Carswell is Nigel’s bitch, he will perpetually be picking up the political equivalent of prison soap. Trust me on that one."
People do seem to be taking particular exception to it, but at least Roger continues to add to the Gaiety of the Nation - and Mr Carswell must be grinding his teeth at knowing four words that are almost certain to make it into his obituary......
Another Scottish LD changes trains. Doubtless Mark Senior will in touch to educate him about what the Scottish electorate really wants.
'Scottish independence: Skye Lib Dem councillor defects to Yes vote
A senior Skye councillor has become the latest Liberal Democrat to declare his support for a Yes vote. Councillor Drew Millar has pledged to back Scottish independence in the referendum vote on September 18.'
Didn't he challenge Carswell to a duel, at one point last week?
Good point, that more than makes up for the lack of a moustache.
I am sure I once read of a duel in somewhere like Chile or Argentina in the 1970s. One army officer had insulted another by calling him a socialist. The duel was fought with submachine guns, 37 rounds were exchanged and neither party was injured.
If it were Argentina it would explain 1982 rather well.
Another Scottish LD changes trains. Doubtless Mark Senior will in touch to educate him about what the Scottish electorate really wants.
'Scottish independence: Skye Lib Dem councillor defects to Yes vote
A senior Skye councillor has become the latest Liberal Democrat to declare his support for a Yes vote. Councillor Drew Millar has pledged to back Scottish independence in the referendum vote on September 18.'
Wonder if it were a female MP that defected if it would be ok to describe her as the rohypnol taker?
Well if they had, Roger Helmer would have come out in support of the female MP, or not.
Shame you can only see the partisan view of anything, you look very foolish, and aren't funny
Just shows how people play the man not the ball. Last night @NickPalmer made a remark about how the influence of America was ruining tv interviews.. I am sure there are many different types of American tv hosts, but Nick played on the stereotype. Fair enough, but if someone were to say the same about Pakistanis or Romanians, there would be faux outrage here..
Today people are making comparisons between political defection and child rape.. .its ok because its UKIP, and you are defending an obvious double standard because you are a foolish partisan tory
You're the one who tried to make a partisan point, my point was, UKIP's record when it comes to comments about rape don't always paint the party in a good light.
My point was "would it be ok to call a female defector a rohypnol taker?" How is that partisan?
You are saying that I cant criticise jokes about rape because I vote UKIP and Roger Helmer said something controversial about it??
You mean still no long serving members of the SNP suddenly realising they didnt want independence after all and that they'd wasted their entire lives in the party up until that point? I'm shocked!
Wonder if it were a female MP that defected if it would be ok to describe her as the rohypnol taker?
Well if they had, Roger Helmer would have come out in support of the female MP, or not.
Shame you can only see the partisan view of anything, you look very foolish, and aren't funny
Just shows how people play the man not the ball. Last night @NickPalmer made a remark about how the influence of America was ruining tv interviews.. I am sure there are many different types of American tv hosts, but Nick played on the stereotype. Fair enough, but if someone were to say the same about Pakistanis or Romanians, there would be faux outrage here..
Today people are making comparisons between political defection and child rape.. .its ok because its UKIP, and you are defending an obvious double standard because you are a foolish partisan tory
You're the one who tried to make a partisan point, my point was, UKIP's record when it comes to comments about rape don't always paint the party in a good light.
My point was "would it be ok to call a female defector a rohypnol taker?" How is that partisan?
You are saying that I cant criticise jokes about rape because I vote UKIP and Roger Helmer said something controversial about it??
Not just Roger Helmer, I'm just saying, UKIP can't play the homophobic/sexism card.
But societal understanding is impossible in the absence of "facts". It's like trying to teach people chemistry, without them knowing about what the basic elements or their properties are. The skills versus knowledge distinction is an entirely foolish one that could only be approved by someone who had lots of conceptual understanding but had never learned about reality.
I don't know who succeeded Queen Anne.
Surely, a piece of furniture can't have successors ;-)
Wonder if it were a female MP that defected if it would be ok to describe her as the rohypnol taker?
Well if they had, Roger Helmer would have come out in support of the female MP, or not.
Shame you can only see the partisan view of anything, you look very foolish, and aren't funny
Just shows how people play the man not the ball. Last night @NickPalmer made a remark about how the influence of America was ruining tv interviews.. I am sure there are many different types of American tv hosts, but Nick played on the stereotype. Fair enough, but if someone were to say the same about Pakistanis or Romanians, there would be faux outrage here..
Today people are making comparisons between political defection and child rape.. .its ok because its UKIP, and you are defending an obvious double standard because you are a foolish partisan tory
You're the one who tried to make a partisan point, my point was, UKIP's record when it comes to comments about rape don't always paint the party in a good light.
My point was "would it be ok to call a female defector a rohypnol taker?" How is that partisan?
You are saying that I cant criticise jokes about rape because I vote UKIP and Roger Helmer said something controversial about it??
Not just Roger Helmer, I'm just saying, UKIP can't play the homophobic/sexism card.
Crazy talk
I cant criticise child rape jokes because I vote UKIP? Shows what an idiot you are
You mean still no long serving members of the SNP suddenly realising they didnt want independence after all and that they'd wasted their entire lives in the party up until that point? I'm shocked!
It's not just the SNP - remember Labour for Indy, the Greens, etc. Okay, those are hardly unionist parties in their core - but remember the parable of the prodigal son. And in any case it's an interesting asymmetry, bearing in mind that the defectors over no man's land now include people actively within the Labour and LD party hierarchies - in particular, serving local gmt councillors.
Wonder if it were a female MP that defected if it would be ok to describe her as the rohypnol taker?
Well if they had, Roger Helmer would have come out in support of the female MP, or not.
Shame you can only see the partisan view of anything, you look very foolish, and aren't funny
Just shows how people play the man not the ball. Last night @NickPalmer made a remark about how the influence of America was ruining tv interviews.. I am sure there are many different types of American tv hosts, but Nick played on the stereotype. Fair enough, but if someone were to say the same about Pakistanis or Romanians, there would be faux outrage here..
Today people are making comparisons between political defection and child rape.. .its ok because its UKIP, and you are defending an obvious double standard because you are a foolish partisan tory
You're the one who tried to make a partisan point, my point was, UKIP's record when it comes to comments about rape don't always paint the party in a good light.
My point was "would it be ok to call a female defector a rohypnol taker?" How is that partisan?
You are saying that I cant criticise jokes about rape because I vote UKIP and Roger Helmer said something controversial about it??
Not just Roger Helmer, I'm just saying, UKIP can't play the homophobic/sexism card.
Crazy talk
I cant criticise child rape jokes because I vote UKIP? Shows what an idiot you are
I thought we were talking about you whining about a prison rape joke.
Amid the amusement or otherwise, isn't there a more serious thing to take from Roger Lord's meltdown? This guy was the UKIP GE candidate in what has been described as potentially the most UKIP friendly constituency in the country. What does this say about some of the candidates they might be hiding elsewhere?
Comments
I thought you supported the use of surveillance powers in the investigation of specific alleged crimes, so I expect you'll be along shortly to say it is justified in this case.
Carswell saw the polling and turned his coat to save his own skin - the fanboy love for his party jumping poultroonery is startling.
Vince Cable @vincecable · 25m
I'm cancelling my meetings today to go to vote for the Lib Dem bill to fix the Tories' unfair bedroom tax.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29066066
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29076504
He can't possibly be concurrently Mayor of London and an MP for a non London seat.
Plus, I don't think it would be wise to put Boris in such close proximity to that many Essex girls.
I don't know. Do you? The obvious alternative would be Interpol, but I've no idea of their responsiveness in such missing-child cases.
The most recent case I can think of was the Jeremy Forrest case; he was the teacher who ran away to France with a 15-year old pupil. It is a different case, but also one where the welfare of a child was paramount. In that case, it was reported that the French police would make no effort to arrest the teacher. In the end he was arrested under an EAW and extradited.
As I keep on saying: we've only got one side of the story here, and the family's side of the story is slightly odd, to say the least.
She's a former President of the Law Society.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29076504
I mean I was shocked to find out that the Greens weren't a bunch of lefties.
Green party to position itself as the real left of UK politics - Labour has failed to oppose the Tories and Lib Dems on key issues, Caroline Lucas to tell conference
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/sep/05/green-party-left-uk-politics-caroline-lucas
http://www.fionawoolf.com/
"The Green party is positioning itself as the “real opposition” to the coalition, opening up a bitter fight with Labour on the left wing of UK politics, as the party’s key figures prepare to contest general election seats in parliament."
With that said people like him aren't the problem AIUI. The biggest element of the welfare bills is pensions followed by in-work benefits.
As always its about balance
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/04/nigel-farage-candidate-ukip-clacton-douglas-carswell
You'd think someone who wasn't a lazy bastard might think of retraining rather than leeching off the state. For God's sake, the software sector is booming - it wouldn't take much to move from educational software to an adjacent area of programming.
I don't know who succeeded Anne either - might have been a George? Or Williamnmary?
It's a tragedic misuse of the language.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16812185
Much as it would have added entertainment to the contest.
Con 32 (nc) Lab 38 (+2) LD 8 (-1) UKIP 14 (-1)
http://www.populus.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/OmOnline_Vote_05-09-2014_BPC.pdf
Call me parsimonious, but almost £400 on such items seems excessive.
Not to mention, getting retrained or moving to somewhere with the skills he has.
Yesterday, it was Susanna Reid, today a Labour MP.
As for professional scroungers happy to mooch about on benefits, the cap should be lowered to £19,000, or less. Children are a responsibility, not a means to extort the taxpayer.
However, a judge/magistrate would authorise it, so it's hard to claim there's some major problem here in practice.
I would have thought there were more words in English to describe an organisation formed from constituent parts that despise each other and which is destined to fall apart in the near-future, but they seem to have made use of only three. One assumes that the "United Alliance" will contest the 2020 general election...
Let's say that £40k would need to be £42k, if we assume some cost of clothing yourself for a workplace and travelling to and from it.
So in the base case he can make £42k a year sitting on his bottom smoking and procreating. If he works he might make perhaps £45k a year doing what he used to do. All he gains by working is the post-tax difference between those numbers. The difference is about £2k a year, or less than £1 an hour.
He'd be mad to work for £1 an hour. I wouldn't.
I would think the rationale for having another child 5 years ago while on the dole was the child benefit. In effect, by doing that he got a raise.
William and Mary were from a generation earlier in the Glorious Revolution, after the dreadful absolutist James II got chased out the country. It was the founding of constitutional monarchy in this country.
I did enjoy you blog post about the longevity of states. Most interesting snap shot.
Ed is Crap is PM
Just shows how people play the man not the ball. Last night @NickPalmer made a remark about how the influence of America was ruining tv interviews.. I am sure there are many different types of American tv hosts, but Nick played on the stereotype. Fair enough, but if someone were to say the same about Pakistanis or Romanians, there would be faux outrage here..
Today people are making comparisons between political defection and child rape.. .its ok because its UKIP, and you are defending an obvious double standard because you are a foolish partisan tory
And surely Mr Lord would win a duel - after what he did the the fuzzy-wuzzies in Nicaragua? Or would they be dagos?
I wonder what he'll produce next?
1) What an "educational software writer" is; it's not a term I can recall coming across before, and a quick trawl of the usual jobs sites reveal no obvious hits. I wonder if it is his description, or one on a sub-editor (this article has appeared before in February in the Telegraph and Mail), as my first piece of advice would be to give himself a better job description. "Educational software engineer" would be better or, if it was less software based, "Educational writer". Both of these have lots of hits on the jobs sites.
In fact, if you enter "educational software writer" into Google, four variants of this story are in the first ten hits. It's not a widely-known role.
2) Why someone in software could not learn adjacent skills; they are fairly transferable, and he apparently has time to learn.
I do have some sympathy with such people: long-term worklessness can be hard to break out of. But he needs to help himself. It's not like he's an ex-miner: if he has a computer he can learn.
Must admit, after I mentioned it here I was thinking of not bothering finishing it off, but the replies here (which surprised me) persuaded me it was worth completing.
I look forward to similar contributions from him. I wouldn't mind if he joined the Tories to be honest. Far too much PCness abounds.
'Scottish independence: Skye Lib Dem councillor defects to Yes vote
A senior Skye councillor has become the latest Liberal Democrat to declare his support for a Yes vote.
Councillor Drew Millar has pledged to back Scottish independence in the referendum vote on September 18.'
http://tinyurl.com/n9g7wns
As someone said earlier, Ukip dodged a bullet there.
Probably similar to what David M thought about the Labour Party, but he had the sense to sulk and not to blubber.
If it were Argentina it would explain 1982 rather well.
You are saying that I cant criticise jokes about rape because I vote UKIP and Roger Helmer said something controversial about it??
I cant criticise child rape jokes because I vote UKIP? Shows what an idiot you are