Bibi is going to get the drop quite soon, IMHE. Prepare for very early elections in Israel soon after the High Holidays in Sept/Oct. Probably November. There could be a good bet on it.
"10.11 She described a particular case that was 'the final straw'. In 2001, a young girl who had been repeatedly raped had tried to escape her perpetrators but was terrified of reprisals. They had allegedly put all the windows in at the parental home and broken both of her brother's legs 'to send a message'. At that point, the child agreed to make a complaint to the Police. The researcher took her to the police station office where she would be interviewed in advance in order to familiarise her with the place and the officer who would be conducting the interview. Whilst there, the girl received a text from the main perpetrator. He had with him her 11-year old sister. He said repeatedly to her 'your choice…'. The girl did not proceed with the complaint. She disengaged from the pilot and project and is quoted by the researcher as saying 'you can't protect me'. This incident raised questions about how the perpetrator knew where the young woman was and what she was doing"
Truly chilling. Did these groups have connections into the police force?
And the Met is proposing to let in people with criminal records for the sake of "diversity". Unbelievable where this country has got to.
We had had a generation of politicians of both parties that had screwed our economy, we had Unions that were completely out of control and we had a class ridden management structure that was spectacularly incompetent.
There is some evidence that British industry was targeted by the KGB in the 1960s and 1970s. Jack Jones was a Soviet agent, Hugh Scanlon probably was, Scargill took Libyan money in the 1980s so GOK what was happening before then, at least one Soviet defector in a position to know said Wilson was an agent and Michael Foot accepted Soviet money as well. If this was indeed the strategy then it was nearly very successful.
What about Burgess, Maclean, Philby and Blunt? All fat Tories of the Elite establishment that did damage to the UK.
Just one problem. They were recruited as Communists.
Yes they were secret communists. However, they lived as card carrying Tories.
Proof?
OFFS!!!!!
MacLean was from a prominent Liberal family - his father had indeed been acting leader of the Liberals at various times. Burgess worked briefly for a Tory MP, but afterwards worked for the BBC (which required him to be officially political neutral). So far as I know neither Philby nor Blunt, both of whom were from families of Civil Servants, had any particular political connections. So your statement is factually inaccurate, and merely resorting to childish abuse or damnation by association doesn't exactly make you look good.
Just a thought on guilty until proven innocent: wasn't that the unusual situation for the rare defence of marital coercion Vicky Price (right name? Huhne's ex, anyway) employed?
Just a thought on guilty until proven innocent: wasn't that the unusual situation for the rare defence of marital coercion Vicky Price (right name? Huhne's ex, anyway) employed?
The impact of this stuff can be overestimated. I doubt UKIP will even try to make political capital out of what is after all a tragic situation with many victims.
This cannot be allowed to be buried as the CEO suggested. Names have to be named both at council and police level for those responsible for the cover up. Not only was there dereliction of duty but also the abandonment of the humanity to these terrified children.
It would appear yet again that the police are eager to go after easy targets like Cliff Richard, but are very unwilling to pursue the real criminals.
"10.11 She described a particular case that was 'the final straw'. In 2001, a young girl who had been repeatedly raped had tried to escape her perpetrators but was terrified of reprisals. They had allegedly put all the windows in at the parental home and broken both of her brother's legs 'to send a message'. At that point, the child agreed to make a complaint to the Police. The researcher took her to the police station office where she would be interviewed in advance in order to familiarise her with the place and the officer who would be conducting the interview. Whilst there, the girl received a text from the main perpetrator. He had with him her 11-year old sister. He said repeatedly to her 'your choice…'. The girl did not proceed with the complaint. She disengaged from the pilot and project and is quoted by the researcher as saying 'you can't protect me'. This incident raised questions about how the perpetrator knew where the young woman was and what she was doing"
Truly chilling. Did these groups have connections into the police force?
And the Met is proposing to let in people with criminal records for the sake of "diversity". Unbelievable where this country has got to.
Perhaps they had with the council (from page 93 of the report):
"One senior officer suggested that some influential Pakistani-heritage councillors in Rotherham had acted as barriers
11.12 Several councillors interviewed believed that by opening up these issues they could be 'giving oxygen' to racist perspectives that might in turn attract extremist political groups and threaten community cohesion. To some extent this concern was valid, with the apparent targeting of the town by groups such as the English Defence League. The Deputy Council Leader (2011-2014) from the Pakistani-heritage community was clear that he had not understood the scale of the CSE problem in Rotherham until 2013. He then disagreed with colleague elected members on the way to approach it. He had advocated taking the issue 'head on' but had been overruled. He was one of the elected members who said they thought the criminal convictions in 2010 were 'a one-off, isolated case', and not an example of a more deep-rooted problem of Pakistani-heritage perpetrators targeting young white girls. This was at best naïve, and at worst ignoring a politically inconvenient truth."
While Boris shows he cares more about his own career than the safety of children by choosing today to announce he is seeking selection as Tory candidate for Uxbridge.
We had had a generation of politicians of both parties that had screwed our economy, we had Unions that were completely out of control and we had a class ridden management structure that was spectacularly incompetent.
There is some evidence that British industry was targeted by the KGB in the 1960s and 1970s. Jack Jones was a Soviet agent, Hugh Scanlon probably was, Scargill took Libyan money in the 1980s so GOK what was happening before then, at least one Soviet defector in a position to know said Wilson was an agent and Michael Foot accepted Soviet money as well. If this was indeed the strategy then it was nearly very successful.
What about Burgess, Maclean, Philby and Blunt? All fat Tories of the Elite establishment that did damage to the UK.
Just one problem. They were recruited as Communists.
Yes they were secret communists. However, they lived as card carrying Tories.
Proof?
OFFS!!!!!
MacLean was from a prominent Liberal family - his father had indeed been acting leader of the Liberals at various times. Burgess worked briefly for a Tory MP, but afterwards worked for the BBC (which required him to be officially political neutral). So far as I know neither Philby nor Blunt, both of whom were from families of Civil Servants, had any particular political connections. So your statement is factually inaccurate, and merely resorting to childish abuse or damnation by association doesn't exactly make you look good.
I thought Guy Burgess worked for a Labour minister after the war.
We had had a generation of politicians of both parties that had screwed our economy, we had Unions that were completely out of control and we had a class ridden management structure that was spectacularly incompetent.
There is some evidence that British industry was targeted by the KGB in the 1960s and 1970s. Jack Jones was a Soviet agent, Hugh Scanlon probably was, Scargill took Libyan money in the 1980s so GOK what was happening before then, at least one Soviet defector in a position to know said Wilson was an agent and Michael Foot accepted Soviet money as well. If this was indeed the strategy then it was nearly very successful.
What about Burgess, Maclean, Philby and Blunt? All fat Tories of the Elite establishment that did damage to the UK.
Just one problem. They were recruited as Communists.
Yes they were secret communists. However, they lived as card carrying Tories.
Proof?
OFFS!!!!!
MacLean was from a prominent Liberal family - his father had indeed been acting leader of the Liberals at various times. Burgess worked briefly for a Tory MP, but afterwards worked for the BBC (which required him to be officially political neutral). So far as I know neither Philby nor Blunt, both of whom were from families of Civil Servants, had any particular political connections. So your statement is factually inaccurate, and merely resorting to childish abuse or damnation by association doesn't exactly make you look good.
I thought Guy Burgess worked for a Labour minister after the war.
He did
When the Labour Government took office in the following year, Burgess became an assistant to Hector McNeil, Minister of State in the Foreign Office. As McNeil's assistant, Burgess was able to transmit top secret Foreign Office documents to the KGB regularly, secreting them out at night to be photographed by his controller and returning them to McNeil's desk in the morning.
@Morris_Dancer no: because they were judging if she was coerced or not - if she was coerced, she was ipso facto not the person committing a crime. The jury decided she was not coerced and was simply a liar.
A more interesting example would be those environmentalists who tried to wreck Ratcliffe Power Station a few years back - they admitted the offence, but said it was covered by a very ancient law that stated a crime could be committed 'if it would prevent a greater crime'. Now that might be argued 'guilty until proven innocent' argument because criminal behaviour was indeed admitted.
"10.11 She described a particular case that was 'the final straw'. In 2001, a young girl who had been repeatedly raped had tried to escape her perpetrators but was terrified of reprisals. They had allegedly put all the windows in at the parental home and broken both of her brother's legs 'to send a message'. At that point, the child agreed to make a complaint to the Police. The researcher took her to the police station office where she would be interviewed in advance in order to familiarise her with the place and the officer who would be conducting the interview. Whilst there, the girl received a text from the main perpetrator. He had with him her 11-year old sister. He said repeatedly to her 'your choice…'. The girl did not proceed with the complaint. She disengaged from the pilot and project and is quoted by the researcher as saying 'you can't protect me'. This incident raised questions about how the perpetrator knew where the young woman was and what she was doing"
Truly chilling. Did these groups have connections into the police force?
And the Met is proposing to let in people with criminal records for the sake of "diversity". Unbelievable where this country has got to.
Perhaps they had with the council (from page 93 of the report):
"One senior officer suggested that some influential Pakistani-heritage councillors in Rotherham had acted as barriers
11.12 Several councillors interviewed believed that by opening up these issues they could be 'giving oxygen' to racist perspectives that might in turn attract extremist political groups and threaten community cohesion. To some extent this concern was valid, with the apparent targeting of the town by groups such as the English Defence League. The Deputy Council Leader (2011-2014) from the Pakistani-heritage community was clear that he had not understood the scale of the CSE problem in Rotherham until 2013. He then disagreed with colleague elected members on the way to approach it. He had advocated taking the issue 'head on' but had been overruled. He was one of the elected members who said they thought the criminal convictions in 2010 were 'a one-off, isolated case', and not an example of a more deep-rooted problem of Pakistani-heritage perpetrators targeting young white girls. This was at best naïve, and at worst ignoring a politically inconvenient truth."
Can I take a wild guess at what party those councillors belonged to?
Labour, covering up for child rapists and defending ISIS fighters.
How fucking disgusting. This is the crap my TV tax pays for: left-wing propaganda to cover up who's committing crimes.
You are being unreasonable there. I don't often defend the BBC, but the second version actually has some important additional material, such as Despite this, the report concluded: "Several staff described their nervousness about identifying the ethnic origins of perpetrators for fear of being thought as racist; others remembered clear direction from their managers not to do so."
Also the main sentence you are complaining about has been strengthened, from "She also found the majority of perpetrators were of Pakistani heritage" to "and that by far the majority of perpetrators were described as 'Asian' by victims".
I don't know whether the change from 'Pakistani' to 'Asian' is left-wing propaganda or a more accurate representation of what the report says. It could be either.
@TheScreamingEagles although it should be pointed out, he was an official of the Foreign Office, not the Labour Party itself - so it's a bit of a stretch to say he 'worked' for the Labour party (unless all civil servants did).
While Boris shows he cares more about his own career than the safety of children by choosing today to announce he is seeking selection as Tory candidate for Uxbridge.
This is a rather silly game to play, isnt it?
No, because I wasn't referring to the timing, but the vacuous substance.
Can the members of Rotherham council be summoned to a select committee for questioning?
I would say, rather than a select committee (let's face it, which one would you go for? The Public Accounts Committee, run by of all people, Lady Hodge?) they should be summoned to the bar of the House of Commons to be interrogated directly in public. Not used very often, but can be pretty devastating when done correctly.
Labour, covering up for child rapists and defending ISIS fighters.
It is up to UKIP to make these labels stick. The tories won't.
OF greater interest might be how high up the labour chain this goes. In 2005 Labour would have been very anxious to prevent bad stories emerging about their wonderful multicultural paradise.
While Boris shows he cares more about his own career than the safety of children by choosing today to announce he is seeking selection as Tory candidate for Uxbridge.
This is a rather silly game to play, isnt it?
No, because I wasn't referring to the timing, but the vacuous substance.
*Inserts link to generic vacuous statement from Tory politician - one from Grant Shapps would probably do*
"10.11 She described a particular case that was 'the final straw'. In 2001, a young girl who had been repeatedly raped had tried to escape her perpetrators but was terrified of reprisals. They had allegedly put all the windows in at the parental home and broken both of her brother's legs 'to send a message'. At that point, the child agreed to make a complaint to the Police. The researcher took her to the police station office where she would be interviewed in advance in order to familiarise her with the place and the officer who would be conducting the interview. Whilst there, the girl received a text from the main perpetrator. He had with him her 11-year old sister. He said repeatedly to her 'your choice…'. The girl did not proceed with the complaint. She disengaged from the pilot and project and is quoted by the researcher as saying 'you can't protect me'. This incident raised questions about how the perpetrator knew where the young woman was and what she was doing"
Truly chilling. Did these groups have connections into the police force?
And the Met is proposing to let in people with criminal records for the sake of "diversity". Unbelievable where this country has got to.
Perhaps they had with the council (from page 93 of the report):
"One senior officer suggested that some influential Pakistani-heritage councillors in Rotherham had acted as barriers
11.12 Several councillors interviewed believed that by opening up these issues they could be 'giving oxygen' to racist perspectives that might in turn attract extremist political groups and threaten community cohesion. To some extent this concern was valid, with the apparent targeting of the town by groups such as the English Defence League. The Deputy Council Leader (2011-2014) from the Pakistani-heritage community was clear that he had not understood the scale of the CSE problem in Rotherham until 2013. He then disagreed with colleague elected members on the way to approach it. He had advocated taking the issue 'head on' but had been overruled. He was one of the elected members who said they thought the criminal convictions in 2010 were 'a one-off, isolated case', and not an example of a more deep-rooted problem of Pakistani-heritage perpetrators targeting young white girls. This was at best naïve, and at worst ignoring a politically inconvenient truth."
Can I take a wild guess at what party those councillors belonged to?
Labour, covering up for child rapists and defending ISIS fighters.
But perhaps only for the lofty muslim vote. That is why I don't like politics messing about in justice and police.
Mr. Nabavi, you misunderstand me, I meant that Price would be considered guilty unless she could prove her innocence (ie she was 'maritally coerced), not that Huhne would be considered guilty until proven innocent.
I hope those that tried to brand me as a bigot and a racist that "salivated over child abuse" for repeatedly raising this are hanging their heads in shame right now.
@TheScreamingEagles although it should be pointed out, he was an official of the Foreign Office, not the Labour Party itself - so it's a bit of a stretch to say he 'worked' for the Labour party (unless all civil servants did).
Iirc and my memory is hazy on this, but I thought he was selected for this role as he personally close to the minister.
I'm not trying to make a partisan point out of this far from it.
He was someone known and liked by all three wartime coalition parties.
You could then say the Queen was a commie sympathiser for employing Blunt.
Yasmin Qureshi MP said something that might be true or insulting. You could say she compared british muslims going to ISIS with british jews going to the IDF.
Mr. Nabavi, you misunderstand me, I meant that Price would be considered guilty unless she could prove her innocence (ie she was 'maritally coerced), not that Huhne would be considered guilty until proven innocent.
Ah, OK.
No, that wouldn't be her having to prove her innocence, it would apply to the case where a wife admitted doing the wicked deed but used marital coercion as a defence.
Looking at the summaries of the Rotherham report it sis clear that the investigation got down to the detail, it cannot have reached the conclusions it has otherwise. That means the investigation got down to names on files and signatures underneath decisions. In other words the investigation can name names of council and police officials who were responsible. We have already, it would seem, been told that no council officials are to be disciplined, but, now, what about the Filth. Have the IPCC got nothing to say about this? Will it all be events of long ago, no purpose would be served by opening investigations at this stage, lessons have been learned. All the usual crap that lets incompetent and possible corrupt officials off the hook.
I am sure there will be lots of law suits to come, most presented by no fee lawyers who are going to make a mint. The damages will as usual be picked up by the taxpayers whose only fault was to assume that coppers and council officials were vaguely honest and competent.
Predictions of seats on 2015 imply a belief that they will take their best performances in any seat in 2010 and repeat it in marginals. It just seems very unlikely.
I'm basing my assessment on the Ashcroft Thurrock poll that UKIP has a decent chance there.
Oh dear!
@isam Put yourself forward for S Basildon & E Thurrock ?
Not a million to one!
Re Thurrock, my road goes from havering to Thurrock, and it's one stop on the train from Upminster...
Perfect ukip territory hence my taking the 16/1 even before euros locals and ashcroft backed it up
While Boris shows he cares more about his own career than the safety of children by choosing today to announce he is seeking selection as Tory candidate for Uxbridge.
This is a rather silly game to play, isnt it?
No, because I wasn't referring to the timing, but the vacuous substance.
*Inserts link to generic vacuous statement from Tory politician - one from Grant Shapps would probably do*
You'll be searching for a very long time, Michael Green is neither vain nor vacuous.
Looking at the summaries of the Rotherham report it sis clear that the investigation got down to the detail, it cannot have reached the conclusions it has otherwise. That means the investigation got down to names on files and signatures underneath decisions. In other words the investigation can name names of council and police officials who were responsible. We have already, it would seem, been told that no council officials are to be disciplined, but, now, what about the Filth. Have the IPCC got nothing to say about this? Will it all be events of long ago, no purpose would be served by opening investigations at this stage, lessons have been learned. All the usual crap that lets incompetent and possible corrupt officials off the hook.
I am sure there will be lots of law suits to come, most presented by no fee lawyers who are going to make a mint. The damages will as usual be picked up by the taxpayers whose only fault was to assume that coppers and council officials were vaguely honest and competent.
I agree, the people who are guilty will never be prosecuted for political reasons. But that will have a political impact at least locally.
How fucking disgusting. This is the crap my TV tax pays for: left-wing propaganda to cover up who's committing crimes.
You are being unreasonable there. I don't often defend the BBC, but the second version actually has some important additional material, such as Despite this, the report concluded: "Several staff described their nervousness about identifying the ethnic origins of perpetrators for fear of being thought as racist; others remembered clear direction from their managers not to do so."
Also the main sentence you are complaining about has been strengthened, from "She also found the majority of perpetrators were of Pakistani heritage" to "and that by far the majority of perpetrators were described as 'Asian' by victims".
I don't know whether the change from 'Pakistani' to 'Asian' is left-wing propaganda or a more accurate representation of what the report says. It could be either.
Rubbish. They are covering up the crimes of Muslims and pushing the "Asian" line to push an agenda that Muslims are all harmless and we should accept this backwards religion. The left is to blame for this because of their multicultural agenda. They have the blood of Syrian and Iraqi minorities on their hands as well as knowing they are responsible for the sexual abuse of these poor girls. Their agenda of accepting the Muslim religion and their backwards culture into our ccountry isthe root cause of it and now the BBC, Guardian and others are hiding behind calling the perpetratorsof this disgusting organised crime by Muslim gangs as Asian which includes the likes of me. It is an absolute disgrace that the BBC are tarnishing non-Muslims from India and Sri Lanka with this brush to protect their multicultural agenda. If you can't see that the problem lies with Islam then the problem will never be solved. You need to learn about what the Koran says about infidels to understand the cause of this. The perpetrators were all Muslim and the victims all non-Muslim.
I know polling companies weight for these things....but I wonder how representative their August samples are? We know UKIP supporters tend to be older, less well off, children flown the nest... I would guess few if them are in a villa in Crete at the mo......
That said, the bigger picture of "UKIP are a one-trick Euro pony" is clearly untrue.....just there may be softening in September as schooldays,work and normal politics resume.
BBC Look North @BBCLookNorth · 1 hr Rotherham report: Councillors told about the abuse "in the most explicit terms" in 2004 and 2005. Rotherham council apologises.
the BBC are tarnishing non-Muslims from India and Sri Lanka with this brush to protect their multicultural agenda
You're only really tarnished if you think that reports of wrong doing by people from a community reflects in any way on innocent people from the same community.
Looking at the summaries of the Rotherham report it sis clear that the investigation got down to the detail, it cannot have reached the conclusions it has otherwise. That means the investigation got down to names on files and signatures underneath decisions. In other words the investigation can name names of council and police officials who were responsible. We have already, it would seem, been told that no council officials are to be disciplined, but, now, what about the Filth. Have the IPCC got nothing to say about this? Will it all be events of long ago, no purpose would be served by opening investigations at this stage, lessons have been learned. All the usual crap that lets incompetent and possible corrupt officials off the hook.
I am sure there will be lots of law suits to come, most presented by no fee lawyers who are going to make a mint. The damages will as usual be picked up by the taxpayers whose only fault was to assume that coppers and council officials were vaguely honest and competent.
I agree, the people who are guilty will never be prosecuted for political reasons. But that will have a political impact at least locally.
One would hope so, Mr. Speedy, and the only party that seems to stand to gain is UKIP. However, turning the dissatisfaction that is undoubtedly rampant amongst the people of Rotherham into votes, even better, members, will require tact, finesse and organisation. Three departments in which sometimes the Party seems to lack.
Here you go Socrates, a more direct link between the police and the criminals (from page 105):
"13.19 The Police carried out an audit of 87 files in 2005, which resulted in them proposing that large numbers of girls be removed from the Sexual Exploitation Forum monitoring process. Risky Business challenged the factual accuracy and completeness of some of the information in the audit, raising serious concerns about many of the girls involved, where it was recommended they be removed from monitoring. The Police reason for removing several girls from monitoring was they were pregnant or had given birth. All looked after children were removed from the list. Several of the cases removed from monitoring were read by the Inquiry and we found Risky Business concerns to be valid. It is hard to avoid the conclusion that the Police, supported by children's social care, were intent on reducing the number of names on Forum monitoring for CSE."
Indeed there were racist bigots in Rotherham, but they were the authorities. Treating people of "Pakistani heritage" differently is certainly racist. At least they stopped the "Ukip racists" from adopting. It's too tragic to be funny, though.
Rotherham council chief executive Martin Kimber said none of the senior officials at the council at the time were still in post.
But he said the report would be passed onto the employers of officials who had moved onto other care roles so they could “make their own judgements their particular role at the time”.
While Boris shows he cares more about his own career than the safety of children by choosing today to announce he is seeking selection as Tory candidate for Uxbridge.
This is a rather silly game to play, isnt it?
No, because I wasn't referring to the timing, but the vacuous substance.
*Inserts link to generic vacuous statement from Tory politician - one from Grant Shapps would probably do*
You'll be searching for a very long time, Michael Green is neither vain nor vacuous.
the BBC are tarnishing non-Muslims from India and Sri Lanka with this brush to protect their multicultural agenda
You're only really tarnished if you think that reports of wrong doing by people from a community reflects in any way on innocent people from the same community.
And we just know you dont think that.
But why not call them Pakistani or Muslim then? Why go broad and say Asian when almost all of them are Pakistani. Making "Asians" the perpetrators of this crime is disgusting it's like calling all Europeans Nazi's.
"We know UKIP supporters tend to be older, less well off, children flown the nest..."
How do we know that? I can tell you now that in my village/small town the people who are cheering for UKIP are as much in the families on the Council Estate as they are in the three-bedroomed semis and far outweigh the numbers of wealthy retired.
Getting the buggers out to vote is a different issue but the first step is finding them. Overall the polls might be right about the level of UKIP support but I suspect the weighting is understating the feeling. We shall see.
Here you go Socrates, a more direct link between the police and the criminals (from page 105):
"13.19 The Police carried out an audit of 87 files in 2005, which resulted in them proposing that large numbers of girls be removed from the Sexual Exploitation Forum monitoring process. Risky Business challenged the factual accuracy and completeness of some of the information in the audit, raising serious concerns about many of the girls involved, where it was recommended they be removed from monitoring. The Police reason for removing several girls from monitoring was they were pregnant or had given birth. All looked after children were removed from the list. Several of the cases removed from monitoring were read by the Inquiry and we found Risky Business concerns to be valid. It is hard to avoid the conclusion that the Police, supported by children's social care, were intent on reducing the number of names on Forum monitoring for CSE."
No, that wouldn't be her having to prove her innocence, it would apply to the case where a wife admitted doing the wicked deed but used marital coercion as a defence.
The defence of marital coercion (Criminal Justice Act 1925, s. 47; rep. 13.05.2014 by Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014, s. 177) allowed a wife to escape criminal liability, where she had committed the act in question, but had acted in the presence of and under the coercion of her husband. This meant that the jury would have to be satisfied, on the balance of probabilities, that the wife did act in the prescence of and under the coercion of her husband in order to return a verdict of acquittal. In R v Pryce, Sweeney J held that that the legal burden of proof on the wife should be "read down" under s. 3 of the Human Rights Act 1998 into an evidential burden. This meant that if the defence raised sufficient evidence for the court to allow the defence to be put before the jury, then the Crown was required to negative the defence to the criminal standard of proof. Sweeney J's ruling was (for the reasons I pointed out at the time) suspect, but, as the defence has now been abolished by Parliament, it is unlikely it will have any long-term consequences.
Rotherham council chief executive Martin Kimber said none of the senior officials at the council at the time were still in post.
But he said the report would be passed onto the employers of officials who had moved onto other care roles so they could “make their own judgements their particular role at the time”.
They had already and in full detail even down to names and addresses (from page 110 of the report):
"13.44 In 2004-2005, a series of presentations on CSE were first made to councillors and then other relevant groups and agencies, led by the external manager of Risky Business, from Youth Services. The presentations were unambiguous about the nature and extent of the problem. They included the following information: a) a description of CSE in Rotherham and its impact on children as young as 12; b) the scale of the problem; c) the exercise of control through drugs, rape and physical force. In Rotherham, 55% of such children had used heroin at least once per week; 40% had been raped; 73% had sexual health problems; 33% had attempted suicide. Most had self harmed; and d) the section on perpetrators mentioned an Asian family involved with taxi firms, and identified 50 people, 45 of whom were Asian,4 were white, and 1 African- Caribbean.
13.45 Attendees were provided with background information listing the known addresses of alleged activity, including hotels and takeaways in Rotherham. It also included taxi companies alleged to be involved, and case studies of three girls. In total, Risky Business supported 319 girls on either a one to one or group work basis over an 18- month period from April 2004 until October 2005. The presentation was made at the end of 2004 to the Rotherham Children and Young People's Board, with six councillors present, including the Leader. The following April, a further presentation was made to 30 councillors. The explicit content meant that by 2005 few members or senior officers could say 'we didn't know'. Similar material had been passed to the Police in 2001 by Risky Business on behalf of the local agencies."
BBC - At least 1,400 children were subjected to "appalling" sexual exploitation in Rotherham between 1997 and 2013, a report has found.
Children as young as 11 were raped by multiple perpetrators, abducted, trafficked to other cities in England, beaten and intimidated, it said.
Bloody hell, rarely shocked or outraged, but this story has certainly done the trick.
This was more than ‘turning a blind eye’ by Rotherham council and the local police force, it was quite deliberately and willfully ignored for a decade. There should be jail time for those involved in the cover up.
"We know UKIP supporters tend to be older, less well off, children flown the nest..."
How do we know that?
Polling.
Hmmm, didn't I say the polling companies might be right? I am sure I did.
*Goes back to check post*
Yup, I did.
Your comment about the polling companies being right appeared to me to be about the overall level of UKIP support rather than its age / income distribution. However either way you appear to have your answer so all is good.
BBC - At least 1,400 children were subjected to "appalling" sexual exploitation in Rotherham between 1997 and 2013, a report has found.
Children as young as 11 were raped by multiple perpetrators, abducted, trafficked to other cities in England, beaten and intimidated, it said.
Bloody hell, rarely shocked or outraged, but this story has certainly done the trick.
This was more than ‘turning a blind eye’ by Rotherham council and the local police force, it was quite deliberately and willfully ignored for a decade. There should be jail time for those involved in the cover up.
The report is more like uncovering the local mafia in Rotherham rather that just the abused children. If you read it you will understand that the child abuse scandal is just the tip of the iceburg.
If the report names 50 people as perpetrators, why are't they being prosecuted?
Those officials and policemen who knew should be named. They should not be involved in any child-related work. If they were prepared to turn a blind eye to it in Rotherham we should not have in positions elsewhere in the country where they could do the same. The councillors who were briefed should be named and any links between them and the police and the perpetrators should be clearly and fully spelt out.
Children were harmed in an appalling way and will be suffering for the rest of their lives and, BTW, I hope they get the help they need now. There's been an orgy of hand-wringing over Saville. Well, there should be the same over this and some action against all those involved. Saville was dead and there was nothing we could do. These people are alive and should not be allowed to get away with such horrible crimes. Nor should public servants get away with doing nothing about crimes they were told about.
1400 kids abused is apparently a "conservative estimate", and they're particularly concerned about under reporting of male victims.
Compare this to roughly 4000 Pakistani males in Rotherham.*
*(A very rough estimate of applying 3% Pakistani population to 50% males to a population of 260,000)
Its more than that Socrates, its a sex trafficking ring, the report clearly mentions taxi companies involved run by asians in Rotherham and girls being picked up from school by taxi drivers to be abused.
"Most Asian men do not go around raping young white girls and women; many have happy and equal relationships with white partners. However, an alarming number of Asian individuals, families and communities do believe that white females have no morals, are free and available, deserving of no respect or protection.
Up in Bradford a few years back, I met Muslim pimps, some wearing mini Koran pendants on heavy, gold chains. "Not our girls," they reassured me, "just them white girls from the estates, cheap girls. They love it man, all the money they make! What else will they do with their lives? We're helping them make a career."
Much laughter, until I asked them what they would do if a white pimp groomed their daughters. They would kill the pimp and the girls too, they said. They would too."
Making "Asians" the perpetrators of this crime is disgusting it's like calling all Europeans Nazi's.
Wow. That's quite revealing.
In what way? The crimes of a few people localised to one religious group is being labeled as a crimeof people from a whole continent.
I would add that saying that "Asians" committed these crimes dilutes their wrongdoing: it implies the problem lies not with them, but with their ethnicity as a whole.
the BBC are tarnishing non-Muslims from India and Sri Lanka with this brush to protect their multicultural agenda
You're only really tarnished if you think that reports of wrong doing by people from a community reflects in any way on innocent people from the same community.
And we just know you dont think that.
If (and I don't know) there is a correlation between people from a specific region or sub-culture and this kind of behaviour, then using a more generic label (ie "Asian") is unhelpful because it may lead to a failure to identify the core issue properly
Indeed there were racist bigots in Rotherham, but they were the authorities. Treating people of "Pakistani heritage" differently is certainly racist. At least they stopped the "Ukip racists" from adopting. It's too tragic to be funny, though.
I take your point, but I'm not sure it is right to say the authorities were racist. They arguably ignored racism by the perpetrators. I see no reason why if the perpetrators were Pakistani then they should not be referred to as 'Pakistani'. What would be racist would be saying that all Pakistanis are rapists. Whatever can be shown and proved and said against anyone should be said.
The press reports themselves do do go into much detail on first readings. Were the children in care? If so it presents the dangerous and worrying possibility that the child care industry has a secret and sick motive. This goes beyond Pakistani involvement. Interestingly no one is demanding a return of parliament for what is clearly an issue that is of vital importance to our society.
If the report names 50 people as perpetrators, why are't they being prosecuted?
Those officials and policemen who knew should be named. They should not be involved in any child-related work. If they were prepared to turn a blind eye to it in Rotherham we should not have in positions elsewhere in the country where they could do the same. The councillors who were briefed should be named and any links between them and the police and the perpetrators should be clearly and fully spelt out.
Children were harmed in an appalling way and will be suffering for the rest of their lives and, BTW, I hope they get the help they need now. There's been an orgy of hand-wringing over Saville. Well, there should be the same over this and some action against all those involved. Saville was dead and there was nothing we could do. These people are alive and should not be allowed to get away with such horrible crimes. Nor should public servants get away with doing nothing about crimes they were told about.
If you read the whole report you will find that what they probably stumbled upon is a child sex trafficking ring with the collusion of the local police and council that was running from at least 1997. That is why probably no one until now did anything about it, everyone might be in it.
@Flightpath "Interestingly no one is demanding a return of parliament for what is clearly an issue that is of vital importance to our society. " Isn't there supposed to be an inquiry into politicians involved in similar crimes? When they find a suitable judge that is.
Not a bloody word about their people who let the criminals carry on, though. Hey ho! Lessons have been learned, won't happen again and all the usual rubbish.
Anyone remember Maria Colwell, a little girl who was abused to death in Brighton in the early seventies. For forty years I have been listening to this systemic failures, lessons have been learned rubbish. God knows how many enquiries there have been and systems tweaked, introduced, re-tweaked and it still goes on. What has never been tried is actually sacking people who are responsible for failing to take action.
Another for Socrates that shows the police might have helped the perpetrators more actively (from page 36 of the report):
"5.9 In two of the cases we read, fathers tracked down their daughters and tried to remove them from houses where they were being abused, only to be arrested themselves when police were called to the scene. In a small number of cases (which have already received media attention) the victims were arrested for offences such as breach of the peace or being drunk and disorderly, with no action taken against the perpetrators of rape and sexual assault against children."
Comments
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-28939089
What was in the original report?
http://news.sky.com/story/1315077/sinister-edge-to-israels-divisions-over-gaza
And the Met is proposing to let in people with criminal records for the sake of "diversity". Unbelievable where this country has got to.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2734600/Husbands-constantly-criticise-wives-weight-guilty-domestic-abuse-says-Labour-shadow-minister.html
http://newsdiffs.org/diff/657896/657911/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-28939089
How fucking disgusting. This is the crap my TV tax pays for: left-wing propaganda to cover up who's committing crimes.
It would appear yet again that the police are eager to go after easy targets like Cliff Richard, but are very unwilling to pursue the real criminals.
"One senior officer suggested
that some influential Pakistani-heritage councillors in Rotherham had acted as
barriers
11.12 Several councillors interviewed believed that by opening up these issues they could
be 'giving oxygen' to racist perspectives that might in turn attract extremist political
groups and threaten community cohesion. To some extent this concern was valid,
with the apparent targeting of the town by groups such as the English Defence
League. The Deputy Council Leader (2011-2014) from the Pakistani-heritage
community was clear that he had not understood the scale of the CSE problem in
Rotherham until 2013. He then disagreed with colleague elected members on the
way to approach it. He had advocated taking the issue 'head on' but had been
overruled. He was one of the elected members who said they thought the criminal convictions in 2010 were 'a one-off, isolated case', and not an example of a more
deep-rooted problem of Pakistani-heritage perpetrators targeting young white girls.
This was at best naïve, and at worst ignoring a politically inconvenient truth."
This is a rather silly game to play, isnt it?
When the Labour Government took office in the following year, Burgess became an assistant to Hector McNeil, Minister of State in the Foreign Office. As McNeil's assistant, Burgess was able to transmit top secret Foreign Office documents to the KGB regularly, secreting them out at night to be photographed by his controller and returning them to McNeil's desk in the morning.
A more interesting example would be those environmentalists who tried to wreck Ratcliffe Power Station a few years back - they admitted the offence, but said it was covered by a very ancient law that stated a crime could be committed 'if it would prevent a greater crime'. Now that might be argued 'guilty until proven innocent' argument because criminal behaviour was indeed admitted.
Labour, covering up for child rapists and defending ISIS fighters.
Also the main sentence you are complaining about has been strengthened, from "She also found the majority of perpetrators were of Pakistani heritage" to "and that by far the majority of perpetrators were described as 'Asian' by victims".
I don't know whether the change from 'Pakistani' to 'Asian' is left-wing propaganda or a more accurate representation of what the report says. It could be either.
It is up to UKIP to make these labels stick. The tories won't.
OF greater interest might be how high up the labour chain this goes. In 2005 Labour would have been very anxious to prevent bad stories emerging about their wonderful multicultural paradise.
That is why I don't like politics messing about in justice and police.
I'm not trying to make a partisan point out of this far from it.
He was someone known and liked by all three wartime coalition parties.
You could then say the Queen was a commie sympathiser for employing Blunt.
When will we get some more independent inquiries in Rochdale, Oxford, East London etc?
You could say she compared british muslims going to ISIS with british jews going to the IDF.
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/08/26/Sick-Yasmin-Qureshi-On-IDF-and-ISSI
No, that wouldn't be her having to prove her innocence, it would apply to the case where a wife admitted doing the wicked deed but used marital coercion as a defence.
I am sure there will be lots of law suits to come, most presented by no fee lawyers who are going to make a mint. The damages will as usual be picked up by the taxpayers whose only fault was to assume that coppers and council officials were vaguely honest and competent.
Re Thurrock, my road goes from havering to Thurrock, and it's one stop on the train from Upminster...
Perfect ukip territory hence my taking the 16/1 even before euros locals and ashcroft backed it up
But that will have a political impact at least locally.
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/main-topics/general-news/rotherham-council-slammed-for-inaction-over-1-400-victims-of-child-grooming-by-pakistani-gangs-1-6805589
Really? Can parties opposed to labour in these areas really make political capital out of this situation? Can they go onto the offensive?
I think its doubtful, honestly.
That said, the bigger picture of "UKIP are a one-trick Euro pony" is clearly untrue.....just there may be softening in September as schooldays,work and normal politics resume.
And we just know you dont think that.
"13.19 The Police carried out an audit of 87 files in 2005, which resulted in them proposing
that large numbers of girls be removed from the Sexual Exploitation Forum
monitoring process. Risky Business challenged the factual accuracy and
completeness of some of the information in the audit, raising serious concerns about
many of the girls involved, where it was recommended they be removed from
monitoring. The Police reason for removing several girls from monitoring was they
were pregnant or had given birth. All looked after children were removed from the list.
Several of the cases removed from monitoring were read by the Inquiry and we found
Risky Business concerns to be valid. It is hard to avoid the conclusion that the
Police, supported by children's social care, were intent on reducing the number of
names on Forum monitoring for CSE."
Indeed there were racist bigots in Rotherham, but they were the authorities. Treating people of "Pakistani heritage" differently is certainly racist. At least they stopped the "Ukip racists" from adopting. It's too tragic to be funny, though.
Rotherham council chief executive Martin Kimber said none of the senior officials at the council at the time were still in post.
But he said the report would be passed onto the employers of officials who had moved onto other care roles so they could “make their own judgements their particular role at the time”.
Yes 6.6
No 1.17
Preposterously good value there.
"We know UKIP supporters tend to be older, less well off, children flown the nest..."
How do we know that? I can tell you now that in my village/small town the people who are cheering for UKIP are as much in the families on the Council Estate as they are in the three-bedroomed semis and far outweigh the numbers of wealthy retired.
Getting the buggers out to vote is a different issue but the first step is finding them. Overall the polls might be right about the level of UKIP support but I suspect the weighting is understating the feeling. We shall see.
"13.44 In 2004-2005, a series of presentations on CSE were first made to councillors and
then other relevant groups and agencies, led by the external manager of Risky
Business, from Youth Services. The presentations were unambiguous about the
nature and extent of the problem. They included the following information:
a) a description of CSE in Rotherham and its impact on children as young as 12;
b) the scale of the problem;
c) the exercise of control through drugs, rape and physical force. In Rotherham,
55% of such children had used heroin at least once per week; 40% had been
raped; 73% had sexual health problems; 33% had attempted suicide. Most had
self harmed; and
d) the section on perpetrators mentioned an Asian family involved with taxi firms,
and identified 50 people, 45 of whom were Asian,4 were white, and 1 African-
Caribbean.
13.45 Attendees were provided with background information listing the known addresses of
alleged activity, including hotels and takeaways in Rotherham. It also included taxi
companies alleged to be involved, and case studies of three girls. In total, Risky
Business supported 319 girls on either a one to one or group work basis over an 18-
month period from April 2004 until October 2005. The presentation was made at the
end of 2004 to the Rotherham Children and Young People's Board, with six
councillors present, including the Leader. The following April, a further presentation
was made to 30 councillors. The explicit content meant that by 2005 few members
or senior officers could say 'we didn't know'. Similar material had been passed to the
Police in 2001 by Risky Business on behalf of the local agencies."
Children as young as 11 were raped by multiple perpetrators, abducted, trafficked to other cities in England, beaten and intimidated, it said.
Bloody hell, rarely shocked or outraged, but this story has certainly done the trick.
This was more than ‘turning a blind eye’ by Rotherham council and the local police force, it was quite deliberately and willfully ignored for a decade. There should be jail time for those involved in the cover up.
*Goes back to check post*
Yup, I did.
tim couldnt be here today... (and if I posted what he has said about it I'd probably get a deserved suspension!)
Compare this to roughly 4000 Pakistani males in Rotherham.*
*(A very rough estimate of applying 3% Pakistani population to 50% males to a population of 260,000)
This is the killer bit.
"Prof Jay says she would not be surprised if similar situations of widespread abuse might arise in other towns."
If you read it you will understand that the child abuse scandal is just the tip of the iceburg.
Isn't there an ongoing case in the North East?
Those officials and policemen who knew should be named. They should not be involved in any child-related work. If they were prepared to turn a blind eye to it in Rotherham we should not have in positions elsewhere in the country where they could do the same. The councillors who were briefed should be named and any links between them and the police and the perpetrators should be clearly and fully spelt out.
Children were harmed in an appalling way and will be suffering for the rest of their lives and, BTW, I hope they get the help they need now. There's been an orgy of hand-wringing over Saville. Well, there should be the same over this and some action against all those involved. Saville was dead and there was nothing we could do. These people are alive and should not be allowed to get away with such horrible crimes. Nor should public servants get away with doing nothing about crimes they were told about.
Up in Bradford a few years back, I met Muslim pimps, some wearing mini Koran pendants on heavy, gold chains. "Not our girls," they reassured me, "just them white girls from the estates, cheap girls. They love it man, all the money they make! What else will they do with their lives? We're helping them make a career."
Much laughter, until I asked them what they would do if a white pimp groomed their daughters. They would kill the pimp and the girls too, they said. They would too."
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/yasmin-alibhai-brown/yasmin-alibhaibrown-asian-men-white-women-and-a-taboo-that-must-be-broken-2146251.html
I see no reason why if the perpetrators were Pakistani then they should not be referred to as 'Pakistani'. What would be racist would be saying that all Pakistanis are rapists.
Whatever can be shown and proved and said against anyone should be said.
The press reports themselves do do go into much detail on first readings. Were the children in care? If so it presents the dangerous and worrying possibility that the child care industry has a secret and sick motive. This goes beyond Pakistani involvement.
Interestingly no one is demanding a return of parliament for what is clearly an issue that is of vital importance to our society.
That is why probably no one until now did anything about it, everyone might be in it.
"Interestingly no one is demanding a return of parliament for what is clearly an issue that is of vital importance to our society. "
Isn't there supposed to be an inquiry into politicians involved in similar crimes?
When they find a suitable judge that is.
http://www.southyorks.police.uk/news-syp/police-response-independent-inquiry-cse-rotherham
Not a bloody word about their people who let the criminals carry on, though. Hey ho! Lessons have been learned, won't happen again and all the usual rubbish.
Anyone remember Maria Colwell, a little girl who was abused to death in Brighton in the early seventies. For forty years I have been listening to this systemic failures, lessons have been learned rubbish. God knows how many enquiries there have been and systems tweaked, introduced, re-tweaked and it still goes on. What has never been tried is actually sacking people who are responsible for failing to take action.
"5.9 In two of the cases we read, fathers tracked down their daughters and tried to
remove them from houses where they were being abused, only to be arrested
themselves when police were called to the scene. In a small number of cases (which
have already received media attention) the victims were arrested for offences such
as breach of the peace or being drunk and disorderly, with no action taken against
the perpetrators of rape and sexual assault against children."