"... but they felt the need to close a foreign site rather than one in the US..."
All this inward investment that we keep getting told is so important to a our future prosperity! Strange how often it seems to result in asset striping followed by closure and loss of jobs or, at least, what profits remain being sent off-shore. Still the Chinese are now coming to buy up what is left, they will no doubt be different.
I doubt the workers at the Sunderland Nissan plant share your distrust of inward foreign investment.
True, Mr. 1000. But for every Nissan at Sunderland or Honda at Swindon how many asset stripping operations have their been?
Care to give us some examples?
Nukes, Mr. Watcher, once upon a time the UK had a company that could design and build Nuclear Power Stations. We don't any more and have had to go begging to the French and Chinese. Why is that? All that inward investment. Selling an asset is not attracting investment, no matter how hard politicians pretend otherwise.
On the more prosaic level we have food companies and pharmaceutical companies, closing operations in the UK, for "efficiency" purposes (the Ciba-Giegy site in Horsham is much on my mind as I write).
Of course if you want to believe that asset stripping is to the UK's best long term interest, there is nothing I can do or say that will help you. You may want to ask though why other trading countries have quite tight laws about foreign takeovers.
Personal note: My maternal uncle was heavily involved in organising that visit, and was appointed a Papal Knight of the Order of St Gregory as a result.
In better days, he would have received a writ of præmunire facias for his efforts.
ISM rather than Markit lead the way with US Manufacturing PMIs.
Using Digitallook's report, I am able to update the PB record of PMIs for June.
The ISM’s purchasing managers’ index for the American manufacturing sector slipped ever so slightly in June to reach a reading of 55.3, following a print of 55.4 in the month before.
The consensus estimate had been for a reading of 55.5.
A key gauge of new orders advanced to 58.9 from 56.9 in the month before, while a sub-index tracking employment in the sector was unchanged at 52.8.
A measure of prices paid retreated a tad, to 58 points from 60, as did the sub-index tracking backlogs of orders, which fell to 54.5 from 56.5.
If the PMI for June (55.3) is annualized it corresponds to a 4.0% increase in real GDP annually, the business group said.
The UK score of 57.5 up from 57.0 does rather put George to the top of the class.
"... but they felt the need to close a foreign site rather than one in the US..."
All this inward investment that we keep getting told is so important to a our future prosperity! Strange how often it seems to result in asset striping followed by closure and loss of jobs or, at least, what profits remain being sent off-shore. Still the Chinese are now coming to buy up what is left, they will no doubt be different.
I doubt the workers at the Sunderland Nissan plant share your distrust of inward foreign investment.
True, Mr. 1000. But for every Nissan at Sunderland or Honda at Swindon how many asset stripping operations have their been?
Care to give us some examples?
Nukes, Mr. Watcher, once upon a time the UK had a company that could design and build Nuclear Power Stations. We don't any more and have had to go begging to the French and Chinese. Why is that? All that inward investment. Selling an asset is not attracting investment, no matter how hard politicians pretend otherwise.
On the more prosaic level we have food companies and pharmaceutical companies, closing operations in the UK, for "efficiency" purposes (the Ciba-Giegy site in Horsham is much on my mind as I write).
Of course if you want to believe that asset stripping is to the UK's best long term interest, there is nothing I can do or say that will help you. You may want to ask though why other trading countries have quite tight laws about foreign takeovers.
Ah, yes. Westinghouse. Sold by Gordon Brown to Toshiba (Japanese). But still not an example of asset stripping. The business still operates at sites in the UK.
And as for the closure of the Ciba-Giegy site in Horsham - what asset is being stripped there?
It's funny. I never hear howls of indignation when British companies do the same in other countries, and shut down foreign manufacturing sites.
I had a quick question to northern PBers on regional identity. Would most people from Sheffield or Leeds identify with their city first, or Yorkshire first? Would those from Manchester and Liverpool identify with their city first, or Lancashire first?
That column is all over the place. It makes the usual mistake of not differentiating between different types of immigration, and also claims as a plus that free movement means Europeans don't see themselves as changing countries so won't plan to integrate their identity.
It then goes on to make stupid points like "Post 2008, the British economy has suffered less than its neighbours, while absorbing much higher migrant numbers." as if the fundamental element of Eurozone membership didn't make a huge difference. Overall it jumps from point to point with no structured argument, so it's hard to really engage with it at all.
Personal note: My maternal uncle was heavily involved in organising that visit, and was appointed a Papal Knight of the Order of St Gregory as a result.
In better days, he would have received a writ of præmunire facias for his efforts.
Back in those days, he'd probably have received an evening appointment with a questioner, a furnace, and a set of razors, followed by a morning in the company of an anvil, a sack, and the bottom of the River Thames.
I had a quick question to northern PBers on regional identity. Would most people from Sheffield or Leeds identify with their city first, or Yorkshire first? Would those from Manchester and Liverpool identify with their city first, or Lancashire first?
Coventry - As for my coworkers, definitely Sheffield over Yorkshire I reckon (Except the ones from Essex and Dudley)
Just checked with colleague, Rotherham over Yorkshire.
Except the article you link to doesn't actually say anything in support of its contention - it merely claims that free movement has been good for the UK without saying why or how. Indeed the only solid claim it makes is that it has been good for Poland by transferring wealth and investment back to that country.
Typical pro EU rubbish making unsubstantiated claims and expecting everyone to accept them as truth with no supporting evidence.
For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not actually in Leeds (but pretty close, and was born in the city).
Leeds identifies much more closely with Yorkshire than Sheffield I think, "The Yorkshire post" is basically a Leeds paper, also the football team has the white rose on it and Headingley is in Leeds. The areas I'd expect most to identify with "Yorkshire" closish to Sheffield would definitely be Dore, Totley, Fulwood rather than say Pitsmoor & Burngreave.
I am an immigrant up here, so its just an outsider's observation.
Of course some areas of Sheffield are outside Yorkshire entirely !
Personal note: My maternal uncle was heavily involved in organising that visit, and was appointed a Papal Knight of the Order of St Gregory as a result.
In better days, he would have received a writ of præmunire facias for his efforts.
Back in those days, he'd probably have received an evening appointment with a questioner, a furnace, and a set of razors, followed by a morning in the company of an anvil, a sack, and the bottom of the River Thames.
Why waste a perfectly good anvil on a papist when a couple of large rocks would do? They were draconian but not stupid.
For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not actually in Leeds (but pretty close, and was born in the city).
Leeds identifies much more closely with Yorkshire than Sheffield I think, "The Yorkshire post" is basically a Leeds paper, also the football team has the white rose on it and Headingley is in Leeds. The areas I'd expect most to identify with "Yorkshire" closish to Sheffield would definitely be Dore, Totley, Fulwood rather than say Pitsmoor & Burngreave.
I am an immigrant up here, so its just an outsider's observation.
Of course some areas of Sheffield are outside Yorkshire entirely !
Live in North Yorkshire near Settle but have a Lancaster postcode... grrrrrr. Round here it's definitely Yorkshire first and town second, but no cities anywhere close...
For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not actually in Leeds (but pretty close, and was born in the city).
Leeds identifies much more closely with Yorkshire than Sheffield I think, "The Yorkshire post" is basically a Leeds paper, also the football team has the white rose on it and Headingley is in Leeds. The areas I'd expect most to identify with "Yorkshire" closish to Sheffield would definitely be Dore, Totley, Fulwood rather than say Pitsmoor & Burngreave.
I am an immigrant up here, so its just an outsider's observation.
Of course some areas of Sheffield are outside Yorkshire entirely !
Live in North Yorkshire near Settle but have a Lancaster postcode... grrrrrr. Round her it's definitely Yorkshire first and town second, but no cities anywhere close...
Back in those days, he'd probably have received an evening appointment with a questioner, a furnace, and a set of razors, followed by a morning in the company of an anvil, a sack, and the bottom of the River Thames.
Round here in rural Sussex burning at the stake was the standard operating procedure.
Back in those days, he'd probably have received an evening appointment with a questioner, a furnace, and a set of razors, followed by a morning in the company of an anvil, a sack, and the bottom of the River Thames.
Round here in rural Sussex burning at the stake was the standard operating procedure.
Until 2009 I understand when drowning in a vat of malmsey was reintroduced.
''In a campaign that is increasingly being dominated by the economic implications'' -- and so it should be. Scotland will be no more Scottish if it's 'independent' than it will be less Scottish if it stays part of the United Kingdom. Scotland is Scottish, its people are Scottish. Currenmtly it can have all that Scottishness without the responsibility for sustaining it. I am not surprised the No vote is holding up.
If the vote is NO then Scotland can never claim to be a country again , we can throw it all in and just have GB teams etc and become a regional nonentity.
Salmond seems quite keen to sign you up to be a regional nonentity of the EU.
That rather depends on how you view the EU. Currently we have no power and in teh EU we would. I doubt you are not suggesting Germany , France , etc are not independent countries but just regional nonentities. Rather Little Englander viewpoint methinks.
'...and in teh EU we would...'
Ha Ha. What a Turnip.
Now you cannot even make up your own insults
It's easier to use the simple ones that you can understand.
"... but they felt the need to close a foreign site rather than one in the US..."
All this inward investment that we keep getting told is so important to a our future prosperity! Strange how often it seems to result in asset striping followed by closure and loss of jobs or, at least, what profits remain being sent off-shore. Still the Chinese are now coming to buy up what is left, they will no doubt be different.
I doubt the workers at the Sunderland Nissan plant share your distrust of inward foreign investment.
True, Mr. 1000. But for every Nissan at Sunderland or Honda at Swindon how many asset stripping operations have their been?
Care to give us some examples?
Nukes, Mr. Watcher, once upon a time the UK had a company that could design and build Nuclear Power Stations. We don't any more and have had to go begging to the French and Chinese. Why is that? All that inward investment. Selling an asset is not attracting investment, no matter how hard politicians pretend otherwise.
On the more prosaic level we have food companies and pharmaceutical companies, closing operations in the UK, for "efficiency" purposes (the Ciba-Giegy site in Horsham is much on my mind as I write).
Of course if you want to believe that asset stripping is to the UK's best long term interest, there is nothing I can do or say that will help you. You may want to ask though why other trading countries have quite tight laws about foreign takeovers.
Ah, yes. Westinghouse. Sold by Gordon Brown to Toshiba (Japanese). But still not an example of asset stripping. The business still operates at sites in the UK.
And as for the closure of the Ciba-Giegy site in Horsham - what asset is being stripped there?
It's funny. I never hear howls of indignation when British companies do the same in other countries, and shut down foreign manufacturing sites.
Of course, Mr. Watcher, you are so right. Our native ability to design and build nuclear power stations has not been sold off and remains rock solid. That is why we are going to the French and Chinese for our next generation of power stations.
As for the Ciba-Geigy site, if you think it is a jolly good idea to shut down R&D in the UK and move it abroad then I suspect you are either employed by big Pharma or a politician.
"Leader of Isis extremists calls on Muslims to travel to Iraq and Syria to help build Islamic state, in audio message" BBC ticker Building a new religious state where none was there before, using terrorism as a tool? Nahh,,,, the world would never allow that would it? ^^
TGOF All those selfish, lazy skivers making you suffer for a whole day in order to point out they are getting poorer YoY, while the sods that caused the crash trouser wad loads of cash? If I didn't believe you were just a troll, I might be tempted to go all "MalcomMG" on you.
It's selfish - they want more cash but not enough to move to the private sector as they know its still a generous offer.
Easily led by their fat cat union leaders - who trouser plenty in good times and bad - who herd them out on small vote turnouts to make a political statement.
Time for new union laws to limit the powers of these £100k+ pa wreckers.
Site is full of trolls nowadays, Watcher , daft Harry , JackW, and on and on
Interesting that Abu Doodah (not yet referred to as 'the caliph', interestingly) has asked for judges, doctors, engineers and those with military/administrative experience.
We really shouldn't dismiss the caliphate out of hand. They've made huge territorial gains and are very well-funded. It may all melt away like snow on a sunny day, but it may prove more resilient.
"Leader of Isis extremists calls on Muslims to travel to Iraq and Syria to help build Islamic state, in audio message" BBC ticker Building a new religious state where none was there before, using terrorism as a tool? Nahh,,,, the world would never allow that would it? ^^
I can't help imagine that the age and gender balance of those flocking to build this new caliphate will mean a spike in regional kleenex sales.
Totally off topic, an update on the Construction Industry in Hampshire. Its absolutely mental, busier than at any point ever. One interesting consequence that the boom is having is on staff within Councils. Those with talent on the construction side are all leaving for jobs in the private sector paying loads more money. Councils cannot compete with the wages being paid and have loads of vacancies in skilled construction/engineering positions. So much so that they are unable to carry out normal Council refurbishment work on schools etc as there is no one to design/project manage it.
"Leader of Isis extremists calls on Muslims to travel to Iraq and Syria to help build Islamic state, in audio message" BBC ticker Building a new religious state where none was there before, using terrorism as a tool? Nahh,,,, the world would never allow that would it? ^^
Is there anyone in Iraq fighting back? Or in Syria? Or is this now a fait accompli?
Personally, I don't see why anyone going there from Britain shouldn't be stripped of their British citizenship and/or right to live here. If that means that they will have to live in an Islamic state, tough. Doubtless it will look like a paradise to them and a sh*thole to the rest of us. There is no earthly reason why we should make it easy for them to come back here to harm us.
And the first person to mention Orwell fighting in the Spanish civil war will be reminded that Orwell fought against fascists not for them.
Interesting that Abu Doodah (not yet referred to as 'the caliph', interestingly) has asked for judges, doctors, engineers and those with military/administrative experience.
We really shouldn't dismiss the caliphate out of hand. They've made huge territorial gains and are very well-funded. It may all melt away like snow on a sunny day, but it may prove more resilient.
"It may all melt away like snow on a sunny day," You obviously don't have children or grandchildren who watch "Frozen"!
For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not actually in Leeds (but pretty close, and was born in the city).
Leeds identifies much more closely with Yorkshire than Sheffield I think, "The Yorkshire post" is basically a Leeds paper, also the football team has the white rose on it and Headingley is in Leeds. The areas I'd expect most to identify with "Yorkshire" closish to Sheffield would definitely be Dore, Totley, Fulwood rather than say Pitsmoor & Burngreave.
I am an immigrant up here, so its just an outsider's observation.
Of course some areas of Sheffield are outside Yorkshire entirely !
Live in North Yorkshire near Settle but have a Lancaster postcode... grrrrrr. Round her it's definitely Yorkshire first and town second, but no cities anywhere close...
Ouch
Eton College's postcode is Slough... they got the address changed so the town is Windsor, but the Royal Mail wouldn't budge on the post code...
Mr. Smarmeron, pretty sure the Ottomans didn't have nukes
Miss Cyclefree, sounds good but I do not think it'll happen. Not sure we ever (rightly or wrongly) make someone stateless, though this may be the time to start.
In Iraq, there is a counter-attack in Tikrit, though I'm unsure how it's going. The Assad regime seems to be more interesting in fighting the actual freedom fighters (from what I gather).
Interesting that Abu Doodah (not yet referred to as 'the caliph', interestingly) has asked for judges, doctors, engineers and those with military/administrative experience.
We really shouldn't dismiss the caliphate out of hand. They've made huge territorial gains and are very well-funded. It may all melt away like snow on a sunny day, but it may prove more resilient.
Perhaps the UK courts could do a modern equivalent of the King's Hard-Bargain, either prison or exile to the new Caliphate. We could get rid of masses of non-productive citizens and muck up the new Caliphate at the same time (a few thousand complaining about where's me Giro, nicking anything that isn't nailed down and getting off their heads on any substance they can get hold of ought to slow the Islamist hard-liners down a bit).
"... but they felt the need to close a foreign site rather than one in the US..."
All this inward investment that we keep getting told is so important to a our future prosperity! Strange how often it seems to result in asset striping followed by closure and loss of jobs or, at least, what profits remain being sent off-shore. Still the Chinese are now coming to buy up what is left, they will no doubt be different.
I doubt the workers at the Sunderland Nissan plant share your distrust of inward foreign investment.
True, Mr. 1000. But for every Nissan at Sunderland or Honda at Swindon how many asset stripping operations have their been?
Care to give us some examples?
Nukes, Mr. Watcher, once upon a time the UK had a company that could design and build Nuclear Power Stations. We don't any more and have had to go begging to the French and Chinese. Why is that? All that inward investment. Selling an asset is not attracting investment, no matter how hard politicians pretend otherwise.
On the more prosaic level we have food companies and pharmaceutical companies, closing operations in the UK, for "efficiency" purposes (the Ciba-Giegy site in Horsham is much on my mind as I write).
Of course if you want to believe that asset stripping is to the UK's best long term interest, there is nothing I can do or say that will help you. You may want to ask though why other trading countries have quite tight laws about foreign takeovers.
Ah, yes. Westinghouse. Sold by Gordon Brown to Toshiba (Japanese). But still not an example of asset stripping. The business still operates at sites in the UK.
And as for the closure of the Ciba-Giegy site in Horsham - what asset is being stripped there?
It's funny. I never hear howls of indignation when British companies do the same in other countries, and shut down foreign manufacturing sites.
Of course, Mr. Watcher, you are so right. Our native ability to design and build nuclear power stations has not been sold off and remains rock solid. That is why we are going to the French and Chinese for our next generation of power stations.
As for the Ciba-Geigy site, if you think it is a jolly good idea to shut down R&D in the UK and move it abroad then I suspect you are either employed by big Pharma or a politician.
I half-agree. The reason the UK has no nuclear power plant building capability is that we haven't built any for the thick end of twenty years. The last one we built was based on obsolescent PWR technology. It's hard to build or sustain a business with zero domestic demand.
Mail running with a story to the effect Leninspart thinks Ed is great and will be as radical as Thatcher and Attlee. Mcluskey thinks hes great too along with other sundry lefties.
If Ed dosent come up with some concrete policyb proposals soon he is going to be very vulnerable to a "Ed is hiding that he is a hard case lefty ready to let all the reds out from under the beds if he gets in" narrative in the run up to the election.
Hmm just got back from watching the latest X-men and feel somewhat underwhelmed. I guess if you over anticipate you only leave yourself open to disappointment.
Mr. Smarmeron, pretty sure the Ottomans didn't have nukes
Miss Cyclefree, sounds good but I do not think it'll happen. Not sure we ever (rightly or wrongly) make someone stateless, though this may be the time to start.
In Iraq, there is a counter-attack in Tikrit, though I'm unsure how it's going. The Assad regime seems to be more interesting in fighting the actual freedom fighters (from what I gather).
They've gone off to join an Islamic state and one which we have good reason to believe is an enemy of us and who will use the fact of their British citizenship to launch attacks on us in our country. In those circumstances I think it incumbent on a British government to take steps to stop people with a British passport being used as a 5th column in that way.
Being a citizen involves obligations as well as rights. Going off to a hostile country to learn how to fight the country of your birth is about as clear a statement of hostility to this country as is possible. Why should such an action not have consequences for the person doing it? Why should the consquences be borne by innocent victims here, who have every right to expect the British government to protect them - the first and most important duty of any state?
"Leader of Isis extremists calls on Muslims to travel to Iraq and Syria to help build Islamic state, in audio message" BBC ticker Building a new religious state where none was there before, using terrorism as a tool? Nahh,,,, the world would never allow that would it? ^^
Is there anyone in Iraq fighting back? Or in Syria? Or is this now a fait accompli?
Personally, I don't see why anyone going there from Britain shouldn't be stripped of their British citizenship and/or right to live here. If that means that they will have to live in an Islamic state, tough. Doubtless it will look like a paradise to them and a sh*thole to the rest of us. There is no earthly reason why we should make it easy for them to come back here to harm us.
And the first person to mention Orwell fighting in the Spanish civil war will be reminded that Orwell fought against fascists not for them.
That mass immigration would lead to immigrant descendents fighting against us was entirely predictable, and was predicted, but no one wanted to hear it.
As ever with "progressive" policies, where "progressive" politicians ignore and smear those who ask them to think again, the mess gets made, and all they can do is apologise and try to clean up the unclearable mess afterwards.
No doubt if these Islamic warriors were denied entry back into the UK it would provoke some kind of sanctimonious outrage about human rights, from people who stay silent as the limbs fly on the underground and heads roll down the street.
"Leader of Isis extremists calls on Muslims to travel to Iraq and Syria to help build Islamic state, in audio message" BBC ticker Building a new religious state where none was there before, using terrorism as a tool? Nahh,,,, the world would never allow that would it? ^^
Is there anyone in Iraq fighting back? Or in Syria? Or is this now a fait accompli?
Personally, I don't see why anyone going there from Britain shouldn't be stripped of their British citizenship and/or right to live here. If that means that they will have to live in an Islamic state, tough. Doubtless it will look like a paradise to them and a sh*thole to the rest of us. There is no earthly reason why we should make it easy for them to come back here to harm us.
And the first person to mention Orwell fighting in the Spanish civil war will be reminded that Orwell fought against fascists not for them.
Yes, Orwell went to Spain to fight for far left Marxist nutjobs who went round slaughtering over six thousand catholic priests and monks (about 20% of the total in Spain) as well as countless nuns simply because they were Catholic (as well as tens of thousands of non clergy) and burnt and desecrated Churches and monasteries wholesale. Pretty similar to the behaviour of ISIS so a very valid comparison indeed.
Mr. Smarmeron, pretty sure the Ottomans didn't have nukes
Miss Cyclefree, sounds good but I do not think it'll happen. Not sure we ever (rightly or wrongly) make someone stateless, though this may be the time to start.
In Iraq, there is a counter-attack in Tikrit, though I'm unsure how it's going. The Assad regime seems to be more interesting in fighting the actual freedom fighters (from what I gather).
They've gone off to join an Islamic state and one which we have good reason to believe is an enemy of us and who will use the fact of their British citizenship to launch attacks on us in our country. In those circumstances I think it incumbent on a British government to take steps to stop people with a British passport being used as a 5th column in that way.
Being a citizen involves obligations as well as rights. Going off to a hostile country to learn how to fight the country of your birth is about as clear a statement of hostility to this country as is possible. Why should such an action not have consequences for the person doing it? Why should the consquences be borne by innocent victims here, who have every right to expect the British government to protect them - the first and most important duty of any state?
Mrs Free, You must realise that what you propose is impossible. In fact even suggesting it probably makes you guilty of a criminal offence.
I bought Dragon's Dogma and XCOM: Enemy Unknown without seeing very much of them beforehand, and was very pleasantly surprised with both (I actually habitually skipped the XCOM ads for months, and didn't even realise what it was for until after I'd bought the game because it bored me so much).
"Leader of Isis extremists calls on Muslims to travel to Iraq and Syria to help build Islamic state, in audio message" BBC ticker Building a new religious state where none was there before, using terrorism as a tool? Nahh,,,, the world would never allow that would it? ^^
Is there anyone in Iraq fighting back? Or in Syria? Or is this now a fait accompli?
Personally, I don't see why anyone going there from Britain shouldn't be stripped of their British citizenship and/or right to live here. If that means that they will have to live in an Islamic state, tough. Doubtless it will look like a paradise to them and a sh*thole to the rest of us. There is no earthly reason why we should make it easy for them to come back here to harm us.
And the first person to mention Orwell fighting in the Spanish civil war will be reminded that Orwell fought against fascists not for them.
Yes, Orwell went to Spain to fight for far left Marxist nutjobs who went round slaughtering over six thousand catholic priests and monks (about 20% of the total in Spain) as well as countless nuns simply because they were Catholic (as well as tens of thousands of non clergy) and burnt and desecrated Churches and monasteries wholesale. Pretty similar to the behaviour of ISIS so a very valid comparison indeed.
Suggest you read Paul Preston's book "The Spanish Holocaust" which gives a rather more well-sourced account of atrocities in that civil war. Orwell went to fight for the Republican government which was the duly elected government of Spain at the time. His experiences in Spain taught him much about Communism and Fascism which is why he was so good at pointing out the folly of those who ally themselves with some very violent and nasty groups on the basis of who they oppose or their "minority" status or some other shibboleth. He was hardest of all on those who supported violent groups of the left and came back to this country to point this out, for which he was much criticised by fellow people on the left at the time and subsequently.
How this equates with those who go to Iraq and Syria to help create a state where Christian women are raped, people are beheaded or crucified or to learn how to fight in order to bring the fight back to the UK beats me, I must say.
Mr. Smarmeron, pretty sure the Ottomans didn't have nukes
Miss Cyclefree, sounds good but I do not think it'll happen. Not sure we ever (rightly or wrongly) make someone stateless, though this may be the time to start.
In Iraq, there is a counter-attack in Tikrit, though I'm unsure how it's going. The Assad regime seems to be more interesting in fighting the actual freedom fighters (from what I gather).
They've gone off to join an Islamic state and one which we have good reason to believe is an enemy of us and who will use the fact of their British citizenship to launch attacks on us in our country. In those circumstances I think it incumbent on a British government to take steps to stop people with a British passport being used as a 5th column in that way.
A couple of thoughts.
1. I thought the main difference between the Islamic State and Al-Qaida was that the priority for the Islamic State was to fight other Muslims in order to re-establish the caliphate, whereas the priority for Al-Qaida was to kill as many Westerners as possible to get themselves media exposure.
Consequently, in Afghanistan one had the situation where Al-Qaida left the Taliban alone to run the country as they wished, while they concentrated on terrorist training camps, and in Iraq/Syria now we have the Islamic State fighting against the Shias to take and hold territory.
Is there much risk of British people who go out there being sent back to kill Britons in Britain? Seems to me that the Islamic State would much rather have them as fighters on the ground to defend the territory they hold, or if they are sent back the main purpose would be to raise funds.
2. Any British citizen who goes to fight with the Islamic State and returns with the intention of committing terrorism here is already breaking enough laws to put themselves behind bars for a very long time. There's no need to breach the human rights laws that Britain created when we have the laws in place to convict and imprison these people.
" Going off to a hostile country to learn how to fight the country of your birth"
Has Dave declared war on them then? or will him and William just jut their jaws manfully, then look lost?
Dave and William are a pair of spineless jellies. But the Islamists have declared their intention to harm us and I would like a government that sees it as its duty to protect us from them. This is not too much to ask.
Isis have not made threats against mainland Britain. While I may share your distaste for Isis, you need to get your facts right before going off half cocked? Or else a dodgy dossier might lead us astray? :-)
Hoorar! Two switch off presenters ... not sure about Peter Allen having less though and his time, fellow Spurs man and a class apart (other than Mayo hour on Fri)... how did Nicky Campbell survive?
" Going off to a hostile country to learn how to fight the country of your birth"
Has Dave declared war on them then? or will him and William just jut their jaws manfully, then look lost?
Dave and William are a pair of spineless jellies. But the Islamists have declared their intention to harm us and I would like a government that sees it as its duty to protect us from them. This is not too much to ask.
The government are not going to ignore any such threats and you have no evidence to suppose they would. When the govt do look to protect us with intelligene gathering then we get lefties and self styled defenders of our 'freedoms' rightists joining together to complain.
"Leader of Isis extremists calls on Muslims to travel to Iraq and Syria to help build Islamic state, in audio message" BBC ticker Building a new religious state where none was there before, using terrorism as a tool? Nahh,,,, the world would never allow that would it? ^^
Is there anyone in Iraq fighting back? Or in Syria? Or is this now a fait accompli?
Personally, I don't see why anyone going there from Britain shouldn't be stripped of their British citizenship and/or right to live here. If that means that they will have to live in an Islamic state, tough. Doubtless it will look like a paradise to them and a sh*thole to the rest of us. There is no earthly reason why we should make it easy for them to come back here to harm us.
And the first person to mention Orwell fighting in the Spanish civil war will be reminded that Orwell fought against fascists not for them.
Yes, Orwell went to Spain to fight for far left Marxist nutjobs who went round slaughtering over six thousand catholic priests and monks (about 20% of the total in Spain) as well as countless nuns simply because they were Catholic (as well as tens of thousands of non clergy) and burnt and desecrated Churches and monasteries wholesale. Pretty similar to the behaviour of ISIS so a very valid comparison indeed.
Suggest you read Paul Preston's book "The Spanish Holocaust" which gives a rather more well-sourced account of atrocities in that civil war. Orwell went to fight for the Republican government which was the duly elected government of Spain at the time. His experiences in Spain taught him much about Communism and Fascism which is why he was so good at pointing out the folly of those who ally themselves with some very violent and nasty groups on the basis of who they oppose or their "minority" status or some other shibboleth. He was hardest of all on those who supported violent groups of the left and came back to this country to point this out, for which he was much criticised by fellow people on the left at the time and subsequently.
How this equates with those who go to Iraq and Syria to help create a state where Christian women are raped, people are beheaded or crucified or to learn how to fight in order to bring the fight back to the UK beats me, I must say.
For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not actually in Leeds (but pretty close, and was born in the city).
Leeds identifies much more closely with Yorkshire than Sheffield I think, "The Yorkshire post" is basically a Leeds paper, also the football team has the white rose on it and Headingley is in Leeds. The areas I'd expect most to identify with "Yorkshire" closish to Sheffield would definitely be Dore, Totley, Fulwood rather than say Pitsmoor & Burngreave.
I am an immigrant up here, so its just an outsider's observation.
Of course some areas of Sheffield are outside Yorkshire entirely !
Live in North Yorkshire near Settle but have a Lancaster postcode... grrrrrr. Round her it's definitely Yorkshire first and town second, but no cities anywhere close...
Ouch
Eton College's postcode is Slough... they got the address changed so the town is Windsor, but the Royal Mail wouldn't budge on the post code...
I don't think there is any doubt is there that Eton College is in the Royal Borough of Windsor and Maidenhead ? It may be demeaning but you can live in Chalfont St Peter, Gerrards Cross and Chalfont Common and still have 'SL' on your address. Not to mention Ascot Iver and Windsor.
Comments
On the more prosaic level we have food companies and pharmaceutical companies, closing operations in the UK, for "efficiency" purposes (the Ciba-Giegy site in Horsham is much on my mind as I write).
Of course if you want to believe that asset stripping is to the UK's best long term interest, there is nothing I can do or say that will help you. You may want to ask though why other trading countries have quite tight laws about foreign takeovers.
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2014/07/01/the-uk-has-been-one-of-the-main-beneficiaries-from-free-movement-of-labour-in-the-eu/?utm_content=bufferd4406&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Shame Sharapova lost. If she'd gotten through, her match against Bouchard would've been a replay of the semi-final from the French Open.
ISM rather than Markit lead the way with US Manufacturing PMIs.
Using Digitallook's report, I am able to update the PB record of PMIs for June.
The ISM’s purchasing managers’ index for the American manufacturing sector slipped ever so slightly in June to reach a reading of 55.3, following a print of 55.4 in the month before.
The consensus estimate had been for a reading of 55.5.
A key gauge of new orders advanced to 58.9 from 56.9 in the month before, while a sub-index tracking employment in the sector was unchanged at 52.8.
A measure of prices paid retreated a tad, to 58 points from 60, as did the sub-index tracking backlogs of orders, which fell to 54.5 from 56.5.
If the PMI for June (55.3) is annualized it corresponds to a 4.0% increase in real GDP annually, the business group said.
The UK score of 57.5 up from 57.0 does rather put George to the top of the class.
And as for the closure of the Ciba-Giegy site in Horsham - what asset is being stripped there?
It's funny. I never hear howls of indignation when British companies do the same in other countries, and shut down foreign manufacturing sites.
The Civil Service is going on strike, on...... go on guess the day?
Amazing co-incidence isn't it?
It then goes on to make stupid points like "Post 2008, the British economy has suffered less than its neighbours, while absorbing much higher migrant numbers." as if the fundamental element of Eurozone membership didn't make a huge difference. Overall it jumps from point to point with no structured argument, so it's hard to really engage with it at all.
Just checked with colleague, Rotherham over Yorkshire.
Typical pro EU rubbish making unsubstantiated claims and expecting everyone to accept them as truth with no supporting evidence.
A Swiss Roll and Belgium Bun Double.
I've got a sneaking feeling for the swiss...reckon knockout footie might suit them....
The areas I'd expect most to identify with "Yorkshire" closish to Sheffield would definitely be Dore, Totley, Fulwood rather than say Pitsmoor & Burngreave.
I am an immigrant up here, so its just an outsider's observation.
Of course some areas of Sheffield are outside Yorkshire entirely !
"Leeds identifies much more closely with Yorkshire than Sheffield"
Why do you think that is?
Anyone want to chime in on Manchester/Liverpool/Lancashire?
http://peterjennings.co.uk/2011/news/oratory-funeral-for-geoff-jones-stalwart-of-the-catholic-church-in-birmingham/
But what were the responsibilities of "a Guardian of Birmingham Gun Barrel Proof House"?
I also note you have a cousin called Nuala!
Mrs JackW is well shod as a result.
http://gregmoodie.com/god-backs-a-no-vote/
And I forgot - there's an owl too. [edit]
I have no idea what his role was, but I bet he "double charged".........
[obscure joke No. 135]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_Gun_Barrel_Proof_House#mediaviewer/File:Birmingham_Gun_Barrel_Proof_House.jpg
Even smarter than the Knights of St Columba Club in Holland Park!
As for the Ciba-Geigy site, if you think it is a jolly good idea to shut down R&D in the UK and move it abroad then I suspect you are either employed by big Pharma or a politician.
Building a new religious state where none was there before, using terrorism as a tool?
Nahh,,,, the world would never allow that would it? ^^
Interesting that Abu Doodah (not yet referred to as 'the caliph', interestingly) has asked for judges, doctors, engineers and those with military/administrative experience.
We really shouldn't dismiss the caliphate out of hand. They've made huge territorial gains and are very well-funded. It may all melt away like snow on a sunny day, but it may prove more resilient.
We just have to hope this new state doesn't get atomic weapons like the last one.
(devils advocate)
One interesting consequence that the boom is having is on staff within Councils. Those with talent on the construction side are all leaving for jobs in the private sector paying loads more money. Councils cannot compete with the wages being paid and have loads of vacancies in skilled construction/engineering positions. So much so that they are unable to carry out normal Council refurbishment work on schools etc as there is no one to design/project manage it.
Personally, I don't see why anyone going there from Britain shouldn't be stripped of their British citizenship and/or right to live here. If that means that they will have to live in an Islamic state, tough. Doubtless it will look like a paradise to them and a sh*thole to the rest of us. There is no earthly reason why we should make it easy for them to come back here to harm us.
And the first person to mention Orwell fighting in the Spanish civil war will be reminded that Orwell fought against fascists not for them.
+10 internetz, but five docked in tax as you are a high earner.
You obviously don't have children or grandchildren who watch "Frozen"!
I doubt the likes of Djokovic or even Murray will let him back in.
Miss Cyclefree, sounds good but I do not think it'll happen. Not sure we ever (rightly or wrongly) make someone stateless, though this may be the time to start.
In Iraq, there is a counter-attack in Tikrit, though I'm unsure how it's going. The Assad regime seems to be more interesting in fighting the actual freedom fighters (from what I gather).
Federer's played just slightly over six hours. About 96 minutes is his longest match of the tournament.
King Cole, indeed not. The enormo-haddock are my children, and they prefer Game of Thrones. The Blackfish is their favourite character.
I was thinking of the "recreation" of a historical state in the Middle East, and just a tad more modern (post WW two)
If Ed dosent come up with some concrete policyb proposals soon he is going to be very vulnerable to a "Ed is hiding that he is a hard case lefty ready to let all the reds out from under the beds if he gets in" narrative in the run up to the election.
Historical precedence suggest that will be the case, even if he was to the right of Attila the Hun
Being a citizen involves obligations as well as rights. Going off to a hostile country to learn how to fight the country of your birth is about as clear a statement of hostility to this country as is possible. Why should such an action not have consequences for the person doing it? Why should the consquences be borne by innocent victims here, who have every right to expect the British government to protect them - the first and most important duty of any state?
As ever with "progressive" policies, where "progressive" politicians ignore and smear those who ask them to think again, the mess gets made, and all they can do is apologise and try to clean up the unclearable mess afterwards.
No doubt if these Islamic warriors were denied entry back into the UK it would provoke some kind of sanctimonious outrage about human rights, from people who stay silent as the limbs fly on the underground and heads roll down the street.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror_(Spain)
On the other hand, when things live up to the hype (such as The Last of Us) that's rather nice. (Hoping Inquisition does).
Mr. Smarmeron, why d'you think Attila was rightwing?
Miss Cyclefree, I entirely concur. I suspect such a move won't happen, though. I'd like to be wrong.
" Going off to a hostile country to learn how to fight the country of your birth"
Has Dave declared war on them then? or will him and William just jut their jaws manfully, then look lost?
I bought Dragon's Dogma and XCOM: Enemy Unknown without seeing very much of them beforehand, and was very pleasantly surprised with both (I actually habitually skipped the XCOM ads for months, and didn't even realise what it was for until after I'd bought the game because it bored me so much).
How this equates with those who go to Iraq and Syria to help create a state where Christian women are raped, people are beheaded or crucified or to learn how to fight in order to bring the fight back to the UK beats me, I must say.
1. I thought the main difference between the Islamic State and Al-Qaida was that the priority for the Islamic State was to fight other Muslims in order to re-establish the caliphate, whereas the priority for Al-Qaida was to kill as many Westerners as possible to get themselves media exposure.
Consequently, in Afghanistan one had the situation where Al-Qaida left the Taliban alone to run the country as they wished, while they concentrated on terrorist training camps, and in Iraq/Syria now we have the Islamic State fighting against the Shias to take and hold territory.
Is there much risk of British people who go out there being sent back to kill Britons in Britain? Seems to me that the Islamic State would much rather have them as fighters on the ground to defend the territory they hold, or if they are sent back the main purpose would be to raise funds.
2. Any British citizen who goes to fight with the Islamic State and returns with the intention of committing terrorism here is already breaking enough laws to put themselves behind bars for a very long time. There's no need to breach the human rights laws that Britain created when we have the laws in place to convict and imprison these people.
Isis have not made threats against mainland Britain. While I may share your distaste for Isis, you need to get your facts right before going off half cocked? Or else a dodgy dossier might lead us astray? :-)
Out all day - catch up time!
Hoorar! Two switch off presenters ... not sure about Peter Allen having less though and his time, fellow Spurs man and a class apart (other than Mayo hour on Fri)... how did Nicky Campbell survive?
When the govt do look to protect us with intelligene gathering then we get lefties and self styled defenders of our 'freedoms' rightists joining together to complain.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28113517
It may be demeaning but you can live in Chalfont St Peter, Gerrards Cross and Chalfont Common and still have 'SL' on your address. Not to mention Ascot Iver and Windsor.