Tell us Charles what were you expecting back in the summer of 2007 ?
I was busy lashing myself to the mast in anticipation of a storm.
Were you shorting the FTSE and £ ?
I'm assuming that's an reference to economics rather than yachting.
But if you could see things were heading for disaster why didn't Cameron and Osborne ? Why did they fail to capitalise on the imminent ruin of Labour's economic image, why did they continue to assume until the autumn of 2008 that all was well with the economy ?
I'll admit that I didn't understand the problems of the economy in the summer of 2007 although I was rather baffled as to what was funding all the consumer spending and house price rises. But then it wasn't my job to understand the economy. After Northern Rock I did research things and was horrified in what I discovered. Yet Cameron and Osborne never seemed to have done any research on the economy even though it was their job to understand such things.
Now I have never doubted that Cameron is highly intelligent (and has a few other qualities as well) but I think he is intellectually lazy and arrogant. He doesn't look outside his comfort zone and he doesn't notice things and think about them. This is why I think he failed to capitalise on Labour's economic failings and Labour's wwc vulnerability. He wasn't interested in them and might have thought them beneath him, his views have never shifted beyond whatever the current Notting Hill dinner party discussion is. That's why I think he's been a bad leader of the Conservative party.
Tim Shipman @ShippersUnbound · 55 secs Ukip comma chief Patrick O'Flynn tells Ofcom it would be unthinkable if Farage is frozen out if debates or Ukip treated differently to Libs
He got turfed out on his arse after Second World war because people didn't fancy their families living in "single ends" (look it up) while their kids got crippled by rickets and died of TB. After the war a bankrupt country embarked on a massive house building program, and created the NHS.... That government lost power because people became tired of austerity, but even the most rabid of your fellow Tories knew that undoing it would cause a major re-alignment. History sometimes holds lessons. Now sing me a little song about St George who rebuilt the economy to look creepily like the one we had before the crash. Cameron the heir to Blair, George the heir to Brown.
Nick Clegg now the least popular British Leader of all time.
Just 13% think Clegg is doing a good job. 78% do not. Minus 65% rating is worse than Gordon Brown's minus 62 in depths of the crisis
I thought Clegg has hit his floor, but I think there was a contingent, including myself, that thought he was a pretty straight kind of guy. His mendacious lying about the EU and UKIP shot through his last strength however. "Three million jobs at risk" will be written on his political tombstone.
It was "snowing" in Regent's Park in London today - but the "snow" was actually seeds from the Poplar tree!
Comrade, surely you have been to Moscow in May and June?
One of Stalin's big mistakes.
Summed up in this BBC correspondent's report from Moscow in 1998:
Nobody dared tell him [Josef] that poplars have sex lives - that every female needs a male. Plant too many females and the males can't fertilise them. Which is exactly what happened. Moscow has an enormous surfeit of sexually frustrated female poplars, which every June release a thick stream of unfertilised seeds into the atmosphere - in a word, pukh.
Nick Clegg now the least popular British Leader of all time.
Just 13% think Clegg is doing a good job. 78% do not. Minus 65% rating is worse than Gordon Brown's minus 62 in depths of the crisis
I thought Clegg has hit his floor, but I think there was a contingent, including myself, that thought he was a pretty straight kind of guy. His mendacious lying about the EU and UKIP shot through his last strength however. "Three million jobs at risk" will be written on his political tombstone.
Yet you don't get exercised by the lies in UKIP's posters and some of Farage's pronouncements.
To which Merkel apparently says "Yeah, whatever." I said here a year or two ago that Continental interest in Cameron's posturing was exhausted. They'll give us anything that they don't care about, and that's it.
So, we leave. That is the natural and logical endpoint of your repulsive anti-democratic sneering at the silly Brits.
Jeez, I hope you lose next year.
Clearly, Merkel is following the footsteps of Winston Churchill who prophesised the founding of the United States of Europe.
It was "snowing" in Regent's Park in London today - but the "snow" was actually seeds from the Poplar tree!
Comrade, surely you have been to Moscow in May and June?
One of Stalin's big mistakes.
Summed up in this BBC correspondent's report from Moscow in 1998:
Nobody dared tell him [Josef] that poplars have sex lives - that every female needs a male. Plant too many females and the males can't fertilise them. Which is exactly what happened. Moscow has an enormous surfeit of sexually frustrated female poplars, which every June release a thick stream of unfertilised seeds into the atmosphere - in a word, pukh.
When you look like me, I get worried by stories like this,
Uh-Oh, the party of British Jobs for British Workers is being told it must take tougher line on 'mass migration' from Europe, Miliband told
Ed Miliband is facing a backbench revolt over immigration policy as senior Labour MPs publicly warn of catastrophic consequences for the party unless he seeks constraints on the free movement of EU workers.
The unrestricted entry of EU citizens from eastern Europe since 2004 is hurting the "very communities that the Labour party was founded to represent", the MPs claim in an open letter published in the Observer.
Miliband is urged by the rebels, including two former ministers, to commit a Labour government to seeking to constrain the free movement of labour from European countries with much lower incomes than the UK, such as Romania and Bulgaria. Two million national insurance numbers have been issued to nationals from eastern European accession countries since 2004.
A very stupid move. Labour are NEVER going to out-UKIP UKIP on immigration, and "talking about it more" just means you're encouraging the consensus that immigrants are the cause of all the country's problems - and if people really think immigration is the biggest problem that needs to be dealt with, they are NEVER going to turn to Labour for answers.
Pause for a moment and think how moronic this argument would be on any other issue.
"The Tories will never out-Labour Labour on low incomes, so they shouldn't bother to discuss raising the incomes of the poor. By talking about the issue all they will do is encourage the idea that there is free money to go round to everyone, and if people think that, they will never turn to the Conservatives for answers."
"The Lib Dems will never out-Conservative the Conservatives on creating a pro-business enviroment, so they shouldn't bother to talk about how to improve our competitiveness. All that will ever do is cement the idea that we must have a race to the bottom in tax rates, and if people think that, they will never turn to the Liberal Democrats for answers."
Clearly, it's a thick, stupid argument. But lefties have ideological blinders on when it comes to immigration so they can't see what's right in front of their noses.
That was never a solid lead; was partly sacrificed by the need to win a mandate for austerity, was partly lost to the Cleggasm, and was partly lost to a great Mandelson campaign and a piss-poor Tory one.
So Labour's campaign in 2010 was 'great' was it ?
Brown's trip to Rochdale obviously being some masterstroke beyond the understanding of ordinary people.
The reality was Labour's campaign was crap and the Conservative campaign was crap.
The Cleggasm came about as a response to this crapness of the two main parties.
People wanted change and for a few brief days Clegg seemed to be the route to it. But after than the more people saw of Clegg the more the doubts grew, hence the LibDems falling away during the final week.
I should have been more precise. Oh look. I was. Labour's campaign was crap. Mandleson's campaign was great - persuading enough people that the Tories would take away their benefits / tax credits etc to deny the Tories a number of key seats.
My memory must be letting me down again Charles.
I can remember a Labour campaign in 2010 but I don't remember this 'Mandelson campaign'.
Perhaps you could link to a Mandelson campaign PPB as a starter.
BTW you do realise how Mandelson is viewed across most of the country ?
LLama man I'm just listening to Johnny Cash with my daughter,.
Sometimes you have to get your priorities right and politics sits below Johnny Cash.
Well I can think of one party leader who could use a burning ring of fire and the same greasy little spiv could do with walking the line to spend some years listening to the Folsom Prison Blues. Shame his daddy didn't name him Sue because then he might actually have some gravel in his gut and a spit in his eye.
When you look like me, I get worried by stories like this,
Uh-Oh, the party of British Jobs for British Workers is being told it must take tougher line on 'mass migration' from Europe, Miliband told
Ed Miliband is facing a backbench revolt over immigration policy as senior Labour MPs publicly warn of catastrophic consequences for the party unless he seeks constraints on the free movement of EU workers.
The unrestricted entry of EU citizens from eastern Europe since 2004 is hurting the "very communities that the Labour party was founded to represent", the MPs claim in an open letter published in the Observer.
Miliband is urged by the rebels, including two former ministers, to commit a Labour government to seeking to constrain the free movement of labour from European countries with much lower incomes than the UK, such as Romania and Bulgaria. Two million national insurance numbers have been issued to nationals from eastern European accession countries since 2004.
To which Merkel apparently says "Yeah, whatever." I said here a year or two ago that Continental interest in Cameron's posturing was exhausted. They'll give us anything that they don't care about, and that's it.
So, we leave. That is the natural and logical endpoint of your repulsive anti-democratic sneering at the silly Brits.
Incredibly, I'm almost inclined to agree. It is the attitude that makes everything that much worse. If they truly are so dismissive, rather than merely being contemptuous after hearing our concerns (and how rabidly pro-EU a potential candidate is, and therefore how much necessary reform they will actually manage to achieve, is a relevant concern), then those concerns will never be satisfied even slightly, in which case leaving is better for both sides I always say.
Even if it is a huge mistake for us, we can always reapply later, though of course they would make us pay a very large price and oodles of humble pie were that the case.
Labour should campaign on their record with regard to immigration. Oh, wait...
Labour hasn’t come to terms with where its identity politics naturally leads. When you show preference to some groups, you shouldn’t be surprised when the others turn away.
Why does everybody take the Euro results as their guide when in first past the post local elections on the same day UKIP saw what can only be described as a huge set-back. Down 6% in a year is a pretty bad appalling trend.
Why does anybody take any notice of a donor funded poll by ComRes - the firm that was overstated Ukip more than any other in the EP14 campaign?
The media narrative is all purple at the moment. We must not get overwhelmed.
Perhaps if you wrote in English we might take your asseverations more seriously. "Pretty bad appalling trend" is not just a typo, it is is gibberish. It is also, I suspect, symptomatic of an underlying UKIP-phobic pathology.
It reads like a typo to me. As if he had written "appalling", felt it was too strong, and then changed to "pretty bad" while inadvertently leaving the "appalling" in. I hate to think how I would come across if we're all being judged on our literary style.
When you look like me, I get worried by stories like this,
Uh-Oh, the party of British Jobs for British Workers is being told it must take tougher line on 'mass migration' from Europe, Miliband told
Ed Miliband is facing a backbench revolt over immigration policy as senior Labour MPs publicly warn of catastrophic consequences for the party unless he seeks constraints on the free movement of EU workers.
The unrestricted entry of EU citizens from eastern Europe since 2004 is hurting the "very communities that the Labour party was founded to represent", the MPs claim in an open letter published in the Observer.
Miliband is urged by the rebels, including two former ministers, to commit a Labour government to seeking to constrain the free movement of labour from European countries with much lower incomes than the UK, such as Romania and Bulgaria. Two million national insurance numbers have been issued to nationals from eastern European accession countries since 2004.
A very stupid move. Labour are NEVER going to out-UKIP UKIP on immigration, and "talking about it more" just means you're encouraging the consensus that immigrants are the cause of all the country's problems - and if people really think immigration is the biggest problem that needs to be dealt with, they are NEVER going to turn to Labour for answers.
Pause for a moment and think how moronic this argument would be on any other issue.
"The Tories will never out-Labour Labour on low incomes, so they shouldn't bother to discuss raising the incomes of the poor. By talking about the issue all they will do is encourage the idea that there is free money to go round to everyone, and if people think that, they will never turn to the Conservatives for answers."
"The Lib Dems will never out-Conservative the Conservatives on creating a pro-business enviroment, so they shouldn't bother to talk about how to improve our competitiveness. All that will ever do is cement the idea that we must have a race to the bottom in tax rates, and if people think that, they will never turn to the Liberal Democrats for answers."
Clearly, it's a thick, stupid argument. But lefties have ideological blinders on when it comes to immigration so they can't see what's right in front of their noses.
I agree with both those statements. The Tories have never and will never convince people that they'll be nicer to people on lower wages than Labour are, and they would be foolish for them to let that be the main battleground in any election, rather than on issues where people do favour them (like cutting the deficit or clamping down on "scroungers").
Why does everybody take the Euro results as their guide when in first past the post local elections on the same day UKIP saw what can only be described as a huge set-back. Down 6% in a year is a pretty bad appalling trend.
Why does anybody take any notice of a donor funded poll by ComRes - the firm that was overstated Ukip more than any other in the EP14 campaign?
The media narrative is all purple at the moment. We must not get overwhelmed.
Perhaps if you wrote in English we might take your asseverations more seriously. "Pretty bad appalling trend" is not just a typo, it is is gibberish. It is also, I suspect, symptomatic of an underlying UKIP-phobic pathology.
It reads like a typo to me. As if he had written "appalling", felt it was too strong, and then changed to "pretty bad" while inadvertently leaving the "appalling" in. I hate to think how I would come across if we're all being judged on our literary style.
LLama man I'm just listening to Johnny Cash with my daughter,.
Sometimes you have to get your priorities right and politics sits below Johnny Cash.
Well I can think of one party leader who could use a burning ring of fire and the same greasy little spiv could do with walking the line to spend some years listening to the Folsom Prison Blues. Shame his daddy didn't name him Sue because then he might actually have some gravel in his gut and a spit in his eye.
Mr L
I have quite a lot on my plate atm and it could go either way business wise since I'm taking a few risks. But if I get it sorted I shall head down Sussex way and buy you a beer, I feel this is long overdue. Alternatively if your in the Mids give me a shout.
That was never a solid lead; was partly sacrificed by the need to win a mandate for austerity, was partly lost to the Cleggasm, and was partly lost to a great Mandelson campaign and a piss-poor Tory one.
So Labour's campaign in 2010 was 'great' was it ?
Brown's trip to Rochdale obviously being some masterstroke beyond the understanding of ordinary people.
The reality was Labour's campaign was crap and the Conservative campaign was crap.
The Cleggasm came about as a response to this crapness of the two main parties.
People wanted change and for a few brief days Clegg seemed to be the route to it. But after than the more people saw of Clegg the more the doubts grew, hence the LibDems falling away during the final week.
I should have been more precise. Oh look. I was. Labour's campaign was crap. Mandleson's campaign was great - persuading enough people that the Tories would take away their benefits / tax credits etc to deny the Tories a number of key seats.
My memory must be letting me down again Charles.
I can remember a Labour campaign in 2010 but I don't remember this 'Mandelson campaign'.
Perhaps you could link to a Mandelson campaign PPB as a starter.
BTW you do realise how Mandelson is viewed across most of the country ?
This was one of his. Do you remember about 2/3 of the way through Mandy inserted himself directly into the campaign. Compare this to the trash last month.
The more I read the Sunday Times' articles and stuff on the Qatari World Cup bid, I'm left with the following thoughts
1) It is a proper world exclusive 2) A lot of hard work has gone into it 3) They are going to have to rerun the bid for the 2022 world cup 4) This is going to be the dominant story in the country for the next few days
Not sure where you get the idea that locals in Newark are concerned about fracking. For a start Newark has been the centre of an oilfield for longer than anywhere else in Britain. There are 3000 oil wells within 30 miles of Newark.
Is there really that many oil wells around Newark ? Does each one have its own 'nodding donkey' ?
I've seen a few in the area but would never have expected that many. I imagine that they tend to be hidden for environmental purposes.
Yep. They started drilling them in WW2 with the help of volunteer US oilmen who broke the embargo on exporting oil technology to Europe in order to help the British before the US entered the war. Welton near Lincoln is the second largest onshore oilfield in Britain after Wytch Farm and the oil fields spread down from Lincolnshire through Nottinghamshire and into Leicestershire. Many of the wells are now abandoned but there are still plenty of nodding donkeys hidden away in the corners of fields across the county.
I've seen a beer in Tescos which was named after the Sherwood oil field.
It doesn't really matter in this context - the constituency will have a strongly pro-EU MP either way as it has for the last 40 years, unless you expect UKIP to win it.
To which Merkel apparently says "Yeah, whatever." I said here a year or two ago that Continental interest in Cameron's posturing was exhausted. They'll give us anything that they don't care about, and that's it.
So, we leave. That is the natural and logical endpoint of your repulsive anti-democratic sneering at the silly Brits.
Incredibly, I'm almost inclined to agree. It is the attitude that makes everything that much worse. If they truly are so dismissive, rather than merely being contemptuous after hearing our concerns (and how rabidly pro-EU a potential candidate is, and therefore how much necessary reform they will actually manage to achieve, is a relevant concern), then those concerns will never be satisfied even slightly, in which case leaving is better for both sides I always say.
Even if it is a huge mistake for us, we can always reapply later, though of course they would make us pay a very large price and oodles of humble pie were that the case.
I struggle to see how this is a surprise to well-read political observers like yourself. Regardless of whether Frau Merkel sneers or pays us lip service, it is clear we have been left out of the inner ring of EU policy making for a very long time. France and Germany have a summit before every EU summit, where a common position is agreed. That common position has never been overturned by the later summit. This dynamic will only increase with the integration of the Eurozone core. As has been demonstrated by this fight, the UK plus Sweden, Finland and the Netherlands, plus any other stragglers on the issue, do not have the combined numbers to matter. The only time we ever win is when Germany is on our side. Which means we don't matter - Germany effectively calls the shots. We can either go along meekly, or fight loudly and lose.
I wonder if Cameron, Miliband and Clegg might all be gone by the general election.
Clegg? Almost certainly.
Cameron? The Tories are doing ok, kind of, in the polls - one can even argue that they are doing well, though I do not think it enough personally, given it is more that Labour have fallen back a little in the general trend - so if he does go it will have to be from something huge or of his own accord, like losing the Scottish Independence vote. Just being suspected by many in the party of being too crap to win is probably not enough, especially with so many clinging to the 'Ed M is so crap we will definitely win' idea.
Miliband? Polls could be better, but so much favours them, and nothing coming up offers opportunity for him to be really humiliated electorally, and so often we hear the refrain from tribal supporters of various parties that appearing divided is worse than having a crap leader (I paraphrase, obviously), so how would be be ousted? There's enough of a chance of a win regardless of Ed M that it's not worth removing him.
... After the war a bankrupt country embarked on a massive house building program, and created the NHS.... ".
Where did the money come from, Comrade? Hint: Which country was the biggest recipient of Marshall Aid?
Whilst we are talking about the immediate post war government. Don't forget that they not only wanted to keep the empire but extend it. And who was it that started rationing bread? Who was it that proved a command economy in a democracy couldn't actually work?
This History stuff is a bugger. Are you ready to explain how history proves there are limits to mankind's ingenuity yet?
When you look like me, I get worried by stories like this,
Uh-Oh, the party of British Jobs for British Workers is being told it must take tougher line on 'mass migration' from Europe, Miliband told
Ed Miliband is facing a backbench revolt over immigration policy as senior Labour MPs publicly warn of catastrophic consequences for the party unless he seeks constraints on the free movement of EU workers.
The unrestricted entry of EU citizens from eastern Europe since 2004 is hurting the "very communities that the Labour party was founded to represent", the MPs claim in an open letter published in the Observer.
Miliband is urged by the rebels, including two former ministers, to commit a Labour government to seeking to constrain the free movement of labour from European countries with much lower incomes than the UK, such as Romania and Bulgaria. Two million national insurance numbers have been issued to nationals from eastern European accession countries since 2004.
To which Merkel apparently says "Yeah, whatever." I said here a year or two ago that Continental interest in Cameron's posturing was exhausted. They'll give us anything that they don't care about, and that's it.
So, we leave. That is the natural and logical endpoint of your repulsive anti-democratic sneering at the silly Brits.
Incredibly, I'm almost inclined to agree. It is the attitude that makes everything that much worse. If they truly are so dismissive, rather than merely being contemptuous after hearing our concerns (and how rabidly pro-EU a potential candidate is, and therefore how much necessary reform they will actually manage to achieve, is a relevant concern), then those concerns will never be satisfied even slightly, in which case leaving is better for both sides I always say.
Even if it is a huge mistake for us, we can always reapply later, though of course they would make us pay a very large price and oodles of humble pie were that the case.
I struggle to see how this is a surprise to well-read political observers like yourself.
You may be overestimating how well read I am on such matters, but actually I'm not surprised, it's merely the cumulative effect of such things wearing on me.
Which, of couse, was also one reason why how UKIP went from fringe party to mainstream party while broadly saying the same thing the whole time. Pressures build up and eventually, in a rush, people's opinions shift decisively and possibly permamently.
The more I read the Sunday Times' articles and stuff on the Qatari World Cup bid, I'm left with the following thoughts
1) It is a proper world exclusive 2) A lot of hard work has gone into it 3) They are going to have to rerun the bid for the 2022 world cup 4) This is going to be the dominant story in the country for the next few days
It will certainly be of more interest to the bloke in the pub than anything else.
The more I read the Sunday Times' articles and stuff on the Qatari World Cup bid, I'm left with the following thoughts
1) It is a proper world exclusive 2) A lot of hard work has gone into it 3) They are going to have to rerun the bid for the 2022 world cup 4) This is going to be the dominant story in the country for the next few days
It will certainly be of more interest to the bloke in the pub than anything else.
To which Merkel apparently says "Yeah, whatever." I said here a year or two ago that Continental interest in Cameron's posturing was exhausted. They'll give us anything that they don't care about, and that's it.
So, we leave. That is the natural and logical endpoint of your repulsive anti-democratic sneering at the silly Brits.
Incredibly, I'm almost inclined to agree. It is the attitude that makes everything that much worse. If they truly are so dismissive, rather than merely being contemptuous after hearing our concerns (and how rabidly pro-EU a potential candidate is, and therefore how much necessary reform they will actually manage to achieve, is a relevant concern), then those concerns will never be satisfied even slightly, in which case leaving is better for both sides I always say.
Even if it is a huge mistake for us, we can always reapply later, though of course they would make us pay a very large price and oodles of humble pie were that the case.
I struggle to see how this is a surprise to well-read political observers like yourself.
You may be overestimating how well read I am on such matters, but actually I'm not surprised, it's merely the cumulative effect of such things wearing on me.
Which, of couse, was also one reason why how UKIP went from fringe party to mainstream party while broadly saying the same thing the whole time. Pressures build up and eventually, in a rush, people's opinions shift decisively and possibly permamently.
Pause for a moment and think how moronic this argument would be on any other issue.
"The Tories will never out-Labour Labour on low incomes, so they shouldn't bother to discuss raising the incomes of the poor. By talking about the issue all they will do is encourage the idea that there is free money to go round to everyone, and if people think that, they will never turn to the Conservatives for answers."
"The Lib Dems will never out-Conservative the Conservatives on creating a pro-business enviroment, so they shouldn't bother to talk about how to improve our competitiveness. All that will ever do is cement the idea that we must have a race to the bottom in tax rates, and if people think that, they will never turn to the Liberal Democrats for answers."
Clearly, it's a thick, stupid argument. But lefties have ideological blinders on when it comes to immigration so they can't see what's right in front of their noses.
I agree with both those statements. The Tories have never and will never convince people that they'll be nicer to people on lower wages than Labour are, and they would be foolish for them to let that be the main battleground in any election, rather than on issues where people do favour them (like cutting the deficit or clamping down on "scroungers").
There is a difference between making it the main battle ground and accepting that it is one of the biggest concerns to voters and having a policy platform that addresses it. As the letter says, hundreds of thousands more immigrants, most of them low skilled, will settle in the UK in the coming years. London's population will hit ten million by 2030. The more these trends continue, the more public frustration will erupt over it. Labour have to show they are going to do something substantial over a major issue or they won't be listened to on anything else.
To which Merkel apparently says "Yeah, whatever." I said here a year or two ago that Continental interest in Cameron's posturing was exhausted. They'll give us anything that they don't care about, and that's it.
So, we leave. That is the natural and logical endpoint of your repulsive anti-democratic sneering at the silly Brits.
Incredibly, I'm almost inclined to agree. It is the attitude that makes everything that much worse. If they truly are so dismissive, rather than merely being contemptuous after hearing our concerns (and how rabidly pro-EU a potential candidate is, and therefore how much necessary reform they will actually manage to achieve, is a relevant concern), then those concerns will never be satisfied even slightly, in which case leaving is better for both sides I always say.
Even if it is a huge mistake for us, we can always reapply later, though of course they would make us pay a very large price and oodles of humble pie were that the case.
I struggle to see how this is a surprise to well-read political observers like yourself.
You may be overestimating how well read I am on such matters, but actually I'm not surprised, it's merely the cumulative effect of such things wearing on me.
Which, of couse, was also one reason why how UKIP went from fringe party to mainstream party while broadly saying the same thing the whole time. Pressures build up and eventually, in a rush, people's opinions shift decisively and possibly permamently.
It would hardly be his fault if the Union has been so unattractive to many Scots for a long time, nor is he orchestrating the pro-Union campaign, but while he has no obligation to go in the event of a Yes vote, and it is appearing less likely apparently, it might well be appropriate for him to fall on his sword. I would not condemn him for doing it, even if I would not condemn him for not doing it, I suppose.
I'm sure about it because of years of studying and talking about it.
Take at look at the constituency threads at UKPR for the last seven years if you want evidence.
Likewise there are PBers who will confirm that I was saying how aggravated the wwc were and how weak Labour's traditional support among them was before the recession even started.
Have you ever considered that the voters who decide general elections are rather more like David Davis than your own good self ?
Now we can have pointless hypothetical arguments about whether a different Conservative leader would have done better among the wwc. But one thing we do know is that Cameron did far WORSE than expected among those demographics he targeted and which were loudly predicted by his cheerleaders to be flocking to him.
So with you Cameroons proving to WRONG about the things you were supposed to know about (and which incidentally I was proved RIGHT about) I will assume that I would have been proved RIGHT about the things I do know about and that you would have been proved WRONG about the thing you don't know about ie that the Conservatives could have done significantly better among the wwc.
Defensive too ;-)
I am not a Cameroon - I don't like the man (partly based on my limited interaction, but also because my mother - who is a very good judge of character - has taken strongly against him). I voted for him because he was better than DD. In my vie - as I have said on many occasions - the Tories should be the party of the SME, the entrepreneur, the skilled worker and the aspirational.
For me they should focus on winning the midlands and the market towns in the north. I doubt that they will ever make that much headway in the industrial areas of the North of the urban metropolises (although they shouldn't abandon them, either).
The areas in the North which have potential for the Conservatives, and UKIP now, are not the industrial towns but the industrial sprawls which surround them.
Which is why Don Valley is better for them than Doncaster, Rother Valley than Rotherham, Penistone & Stocksbridge than Barnsley, Morley & Outwood rather than Wakefield.
The big towns are too public sector dominated whereas the 'industrial sprawl' constituencies are demographically trending rightwards with each new commuter home built by the motorways and with each old miner (or miner's wife) who dies.
Now that's the sort of local knowledge I wouldn't expect the metropolitan political establishment to know firsthand. But in these days of the internet there's no reason not to be aware of it and many other things happening outside their personal experience.
Instead the metropolitan 'elite' seem to become ever more closed minded and to take a pride in so being.
LLama man I'm just listening to Johnny Cash with my daughter,.
Sometimes you have to get your priorities right and politics sits below Johnny Cash.
Well I can think of one party leader who could use a burning ring of fire and the same greasy little spiv could do with walking the line to spend some years listening to the Folsom Prison Blues. Shame his daddy didn't name him Sue because then he might actually have some gravel in his gut and a spit in his eye.
Mr L
I have quite a lot on my plate atm and it could go either way business wise since I'm taking a few risks. But if I get it sorted I shall head down Sussex way and buy you a beer, I feel this is long overdue. Alternatively if your in the Mids give me a shout.
Mr. B.,
Thanks. I think it more likely that I will have the time to visit you than the other way around. Now that there seems to be some definite progress on the eyesight front I may soon be allowed to do overnight stays. Maybe we could tie in with Mssrs Observer and, if possible, MalcolmG. Would be a great night out.
However, as Herself keeps saying, I must not plan too far ahead, it could all go wrong again and anyway if you are down this way do please let me buy you a drink at least.
Hope all goes well with the business risks. I am sure it will and, if necessary, Mr. Charles will be available for sound advice.
This is why the Newark by-election result this week is so important, the Tories need to stop the UKIP momentum and fast. Cameron can then start to win back lost Tory to UKIP defectors. As for 2010 LDs, don't forget some of them have gone to the Tories, and indeed UKIP, they have not all to Labour
Interesting day at the Hay Festival today, I stood behind Benedict Cumberbatch in a queue and had a short discussion on the pros and cons of John Major's premiership with Sir Max Hastings when getting him to sign a copy of his new book on WW1 for my father
He got turfed out on his arse after Second World war because people didn't fancy their families living in "single ends" (look it up) while their kids got crippled by rickets and died of TB. After the war a bankrupt country embarked on a massive house building program, and created the NHS.... That government lost power because people became tired of austerity, but even the most rabid of your fellow Tories knew that undoing it would cause a major re-alignment. History sometimes holds lessons. Now sing me a little song about St George who rebuilt the economy to look creepily like the one we had before the crash. Cameron the heir to Blair, George the heir to Brown.
Smarmy
Produce the stats to back up your claims Smarmy and I will do battle with you.
The more I read the Sunday Times' articles and stuff on the Qatari World Cup bid, I'm left with the following thoughts
1) It is a proper world exclusive 2) A lot of hard work has gone into it 3) They are going to have to rerun the bid for the 2022 world cup 4) This is going to be the dominant story in the country for the next few days
It will certainly be of more interest to the bloke in the pub than anything else.
Pause for a moment and think how moronic this argument would be on any other issue.
"The Tories will never out-Labour Labour on low incomes, so they shouldn't bother to discuss raising the incomes of the poor. By talking about the issue all they will do is encourage the idea that there is free money to go round to everyone, and if people think that, they will never turn to the Conservatives for answers."
"The Lib Dems will never out-Conservative the Conservatives on creating a pro-business enviroment, so they shouldn't bother to talk about how to improve our competitiveness. All that will ever do is cement the idea that we must have a race to the bottom in tax rates, and if people think that, they will never turn to the Liberal Democrats for answers."
Clearly, it's a thick, stupid argument. But lefties have ideological blinders on when it comes to immigration so they can't see what's right in front of their noses.
I agree with both those statements. The Tories have never and will never convince people that they'll be nicer to people on lower wages than Labour are, and they would be foolish for them to let that be the main battleground in any election, rather than on issues where people do favour them (like cutting the deficit or clamping down on "scroungers").
There is a difference between making it the main battle ground and accepting that it is one of the biggest concerns to voters and having a policy platform that addresses it..
But my point is, IF immigration IS one of people's biggest concerns, then Labour have no chance regardless. People are never going to consider Labour to be the party that is the best to deal with immigration, no matter how much tough rhetoric they put out. Their only chance is to try and persuade people that immigration is not one of the biggest concerns that the country faces, but that the real people who are ruining the country are the greedy elites.
Fwiw, I don't actually disagree with the idea of limiting immigration from other EU countries (I kind of think it's letting the governments of those countries off the hook from their responsibility to provide jobs and decent living standards for all their citizens). But, much as it pains me to agree with Dan Hodges, no matter how sensible a suggestion, in this current hysteria it's just going to add to the kind of disgusting stigmatisation of immigrants who are here (who, no matter what the system's problems, the immigrants themselves have done nothing wrong). Labour should have no part in it, it's bad politics and bad morals.
LLama man I'm just listening to Johnny Cash with my daughter,.
Sometimes you have to get your priorities right and politics sits below Johnny Cash.
Well I can think of one party leader who could use a burning ring of fire and the same greasy little spiv could do with walking the line to spend some years listening to the Folsom Prison Blues. Shame his daddy didn't name him Sue because then he might actually have some gravel in his gut and a spit in his eye.
Mr L
I have quite a lot on my plate atm and it could go either way business wise since I'm taking a few risks. But if I get it sorted I shall head down Sussex way and buy you a beer, I feel this is long overdue. Alternatively if your in the Mids give me a shout.
Mr. B.,
Thanks. I think it more likely that I will have the time to visit you than the other way around. Now that there seems to be some definite progress on the eyesight front I may soon be allowed to do overnight stays. Maybe we could tie in with Mssrs Observer and, if possible, MalcolmG. Would be a great night out.
However, as Herself keeps saying, I must not plan too far ahead, it could all go wrong again and anyway if you are down this way do please let me buy you a drink at least.
Hope all goes well with the business risks. I am sure it will and, if necessary, Mr. Charles will be available for sound advice.
That would be a pleasure, Mr L, you have assured B&B in Warwickshire should you venture this way. I'd even offer factory accommodation to Mr Pole :-)
Debt fueled consumer spending, check. Bundled debts back to pre crash prices, check, House prices out stripping inflation and wages, check, Economy reliant on the service sector, check, The rich getting richer, check, Peasants getting poorer check. If it looks like a turd and smells like a turd, it is fairly certain it is a turd.
The more I read the Sunday Times' articles and stuff on the Qatari World Cup bid, I'm left with the following thoughts
1) It is a proper world exclusive 2) A lot of hard work has gone into it 3) They are going to have to rerun the bid for the 2022 world cup 4) This is going to be the dominant story in the country for the next few days
It will certainly be of more interest to the bloke in the pub than anything else.
Labour should campaign on their record with regard to immigration. Oh, wait...
Labour hasn’t come to terms with where its identity politics naturally leads. When you show preference to some groups, you shouldn’t be surprised when the others turn away.
That's a short but insightful article. Sadiq Khan is deliberately playing ethnic politics because he's a savvy operator, and wants to become Mayor of London by running up huge margins with the ethnic vote. By any logical standard, whites should deserve preference over, say, Arabs given they have lower incomes. But of course, whites don't deserve racial favouritism. The bloke on the Essex council estate needs to check his privilege you see...
... After the war a bankrupt country embarked on a massive house building program, and created the NHS.... ".
Whilst we are talking about the immediate post war government. Don't forget that they not only wanted to keep the empire but extend it.
Extend it, Mr Llama? Where to exactly?
What we know today as Libya was the big one, Cap'n doc. There were also plans to deepen and strengthen our hold on the Horn of Africa and in East Africa. The Atlee government were massive imperialists but get a free pass because the inevitable independence of India (which should have happened at least twenty years before it did) happened on their watch.
Debt fueled consumer spending, check. Bundled debts back to pre crash prices, check, House prices out stripping inflation and wages, check, Economy reliant on the service sector, check, The rich getting richer, check, Peasants getting poorer check. If it looks like a turd and smells like a turd, it is fairly certain it is a turd.
Can you name a developed nation economy that isn't reliant on the service sector?
The areas in the North which have potential for the Conservatives, and UKIP now, are not the industrial towns but the industrial sprawls which surround them.
Which is why Don Valley is better for them than Doncaster, Rother Valley than Rotherham, Penistone & Stocksbridge than Barnsley, Morley & Outwood rather than Wakefield.
If the surroundings of Doncaster are known as Don Valley and Rotherham as Rother Valley, what on earth happened to the environs of Penistone?
The areas in the North which have potential for the Conservatives, and UKIP now, are not the industrial towns but the industrial sprawls which surround them.
Which is why Don Valley is better for them than Doncaster, Rother Valley than Rotherham, Penistone & Stocksbridge than Barnsley, Morley & Outwood rather than Wakefield.
If the surroundings of Doncaster are known as Don Vally and Rotherham as Rother Valley, what on earth happened to the environs of Penistone?
Debt fueled consumer spending, check. Bundled debts back to pre crash prices, check, House prices out stripping inflation and wages, check, Economy reliant on the service sector, check, The rich getting richer, check, Peasants getting poorer check. If it looks like a turd and smells like a turd, it is fairly certain it is a turd.
UKIP won by 2200 in Gedling vs 1400 in Broxtowe, with Labour 600 ahead of the Tories vs 700 in Broxtowe. Fairly similar to us, as usual. The interesting result was perhaps Amber Valley next door, which meets most of your conditions - overwhelmingly WWC, former coalfield, and so on. It voted UKIP as the Euros by a margin of 2200, but on the same day the same voters returned local authority control to Labour.
The more I read the Sunday Times' articles and stuff on the Qatari World Cup bid, I'm left with the following thoughts
1) It is a proper world exclusive 2) A lot of hard work has gone into it 3) They are going to have to rerun the bid for the 2022 world cup 4) This is going to be the dominant story in the country for the next few days
It will certainly be of more interest to the bloke in the pub than anything else.
Mr Jim
now listening to Die Forelle
Silly old trout.
Mr P not at all, here in Warks we have a trout of time. I do hope you makr it up this way soon i'd be delighted to offer you food and accommodation. we'd treat you as well as Nadim Zahawis horses. let me know if you you're up this way. Now on Beethoven Violin Concerto,
@Socrates Tell me what the service sector actually produces, and where the money comes from and I will answer your first question. And as for your poor top percentile? Those are the ones who have seen their wealth double since the crash, and those immediately below them have seen circa 10% wage increases year on year. My heart bleeds for the poor souls.
Avery and his friends would tell you.....but you mustn't tell the tax man, it has to be our little secret.
The more I read the Sunday Times' articles and stuff on the Qatari World Cup bid, I'm left with the following thoughts
1) It is a proper world exclusive 2) A lot of hard work has gone into it 3) They are going to have to rerun the bid for the 2022 world cup 4) This is going to be the dominant story in the country for the next few days
It will certainly be of more interest to the bloke in the pub than anything else.
Mr Jim
now listening to Die Forelle
Silly old trout.
Mr P not at all, here in Warks we have a trout of time. I do hope you makr it up this way soon i'd be delighted to offer you food and accommodation. we'd treat you as well as Nadim Zahawis horses. let me know if you you're up this way. Now on Beethoven Violin Concerto,
That was never a solid lead; was partly sacrificed by the need to win a mandate for austerity, was partly lost to the Cleggasm, and was partly lost to a great Mandelson campaign and a piss-poor Tory one.
So Labour's campaign in 2010 was 'great' was it ?
Brown's trip to Rochdale obviously being some masterstroke beyond the understanding of ordinary people.
The reality was Labour's campaign was crap and the Conservative campaign was crap.
The Cleggasm came about as a response to this crapness of the two main parties.
People wanted change and for a few brief days Clegg seemed to be the route to it. But after than the more people saw of Clegg the more the doubts grew, hence the LibDems falling away during the final week.
I should have been more precise. Oh look. I was. Labour's campaign was crap. Mandleson's campaign was great - persuading enough people that the Tories would take away their benefits / tax credits etc to deny the Tories a number of key seats.
My memory must be letting me down again Charles.
I can remember a Labour campaign in 2010 but I don't remember this 'Mandelson campaign'.
Perhaps you could link to a Mandelson campaign PPB as a starter.
BTW you do realise how Mandelson is viewed across most of the country ?
This was one of his. Do you remember about 2/3 of the way through Mandy inserted himself directly into the campaign. Compare this to the trash last month.
I thinks its possible that Labour might have recovered some support among middle class and urban leftists in the last week of the 2010 campaign and that was behind the failure of the LibDems to win the likes of Islington S and Oxford E. But I don't think it did Labour much good against the Conservatives, middle class leftists were always going to come back to Labour where the Conservatives, rather than the LibDems, were the opponents.
As to Labour's 2015 campaign it was trash, yet is still beat the Conservatives. What we had was one bunch of PPE boys competing against another bunch of PPE boys in building monuments to incompetance.
The more I read the Sunday Times' articles and stuff on the Qatari World Cup bid, I'm left with the following thoughts
1) It is a proper world exclusive 2) A lot of hard work has gone into it 3) They are going to have to rerun the bid for the 2022 world cup 4) This is going to be the dominant story in the country for the next few days
It will certainly be of more interest to the bloke in the pub than anything else.
Mr Jim
now listening to Die Forelle
Silly old trout.
Mr P not at all, here in Warks we have a trout of time. I do hope you makr it up this way soon i'd be delighted to offer you food and accommodation. we'd treat you as well as Nadim Zahawis horses. let me know if you you're up this way. Now on Beethoven Violin Concerto,
Warwickshire's OK - I'm still around in the Coventry area during the week
The more I read the Sunday Times' articles and stuff on the Qatari World Cup bid, I'm left with the following thoughts
1) It is a proper world exclusive 2) A lot of hard work has gone into it 3) They are going to have to rerun the bid for the 2022 world cup 4) This is going to be the dominant story in the country for the next few days
It will certainly be of more interest to the bloke in the pub than anything else.
Mr Jim
now listening to Die Forelle
Silly old trout.
Mr P not at all, here in Warks we have a trout of time. I do hope you makr it up this way soon i'd be delighted to offer you food and accommodation. we'd treat you as well as Nadim Zahawis horses. let me know if you you're up this way. Now on Beethoven Violin Concerto,
Warwickshire's OK - I'm still around in the Coventry area during the week
Mr P let's fix up with SO in the next fortnight then.
The more I read the Sunday Times' articles and stuff on the Qatari World Cup bid, I'm left with the following thoughts
1) It is a proper world exclusive 2) A lot of hard work has gone into it 3) They are going to have to rerun the bid for the 2022 world cup 4) This is going to be the dominant story in the country for the next few days
It will certainly be of more interest to the bloke in the pub than anything else.
Mr Jim
now listening to Die Forelle
Silly old trout.
Mr P not at all, here in Warks we have a trout of time. I do hope you makr it up this way soon i'd be delighted to offer you food and accommodation. we'd treat you as well as Nadim Zahawis horses. let me know if you you're up this way. Now on Beethoven Violin Concerto,
Ah possibly the most intriguing violin concerto out there, not as virtuosic as the later romantic pieces and on a vast scale. The first movement is longer than some entire works and the 4 beat timpani intro is cheeky. The third movement is boisterously entertaining, and the coda and final couple of bars are just genius.
The more I read the Sunday Times' articles and stuff on the Qatari World Cup bid, I'm left with the following thoughts
1) It is a proper world exclusive 2) A lot of hard work has gone into it 3) They are going to have to rerun the bid for the 2022 world cup 4) This is going to be the dominant story in the country for the next few days
It will certainly be of more interest to the bloke in the pub than anything else.
Mr Jim
now listening to Die Forelle
Silly old trout.
Mr P not at all, here in Warks we have a trout of time. I do hope you makr it up this way soon i'd be delighted to offer you food and accommodation. we'd treat you as well as Nadim Zahawis horses. let me know if you you're up this way. Now on Beethoven Violin Concerto,
Soloist?
Difficult to choose.
Oistrakh maybe?
I realise you live in the cultural desert of the South east but here we have the CBSO and Freddie Starr.
The more I read the Sunday Times' articles and stuff on the Qatari World Cup bid, I'm left with the following thoughts
1) It is a proper world exclusive 2) A lot of hard work has gone into it 3) They are going to have to rerun the bid for the 2022 world cup 4) This is going to be the dominant story in the country for the next few days
It will certainly be of more interest to the bloke in the pub than anything else.
Mr Jim
now listening to Die Forelle
Silly old trout.
Mr P not at all, here in Warks we have a trout of time. I do hope you makr it up this way soon i'd be delighted to offer you food and accommodation. we'd treat you as well as Nadim Zahawis horses. let me know if you you're up this way. Now on Beethoven Violin Concerto,
Ah possibly the most intriguing violin concerto out there, not as virtuosic as the later romantic pieces and on a vast scale. The first movement is longer than some entire works and the 4 beat timpani intro is cheeky. The third movement is boisterously entertaining, and the coda and final couple of bars are just genius.
Pause for a moment and think how moronic this argument would be on any other issue.
"The Tories will never out-Labour Labour on low incomes, so they shouldn't bother to discuss raising the incomes of the poor. By talking about the issue all they will do is encourage the idea that there is free money to go round to everyone, and if people think that, they will never turn to the Conservatives for answers."
"The Lib Dems will never out-Conservative the Conservatives on creating a pro-business enviroment, so they shouldn't bother to talk about how to improve our competitiveness. All that will ever do is cement the idea that we must have a race to the bottom in tax rates, and if people think that, they will never turn to the Liberal Democrats for answers."
Clearly, it's a thick, stupid argument. But lefties have ideological blinders on when it comes to immigration so they can't see what's right in front of their noses.
I agree with both those statements. The Tories have never and will never convince people that they'll be nicer to people on lower wages than Labour are, and they would be foolish for them to let that be the main battleground in any election, rather than on issues where people do favour them (like cutting the deficit or clamping down on "scroungers").
There do something substantial over a major issue or they won't be listened to on anything else.
According to the ONS, three-four million immigrants, mainly EU, will arrive in England in the next ten years. If this is any way true, I believe this alone will result in a UKIP government, or a Tory-UKIP Coalition government, On top of the huge wave of migration we have already seen, this is unsustainable.
Labour are intellectually incapable of dealing with the issue: they are pro-EU, and sneer at the British (look at NPXMP's remarks today). So the end result is a pretty hard rightwing government - more rightwing than we have seen in the UK for many decades (on questions of migration etc).
There is one other alternative, which I find increasingly intriguing - that a pivotal European nation, yet not the UK, will elect a fiercely eurosceptic government, in the face of inexorable decline, unwanted euro-demographic change, Islamification, and eurosclerosis.
The obvious case is France. If France went properly sceptic, the EU ends.
France changed Europe with the revolution of 1789. No reason she could not do it again.
Yes, i wouldn't be surprised by that at all. Everything related to this is worse there but especially the levels of unreported youth violence.
The more I read the Sunday Times' articles and stuff on the Qatari World Cup bid, I'm left with the following thoughts
1) It is a proper world exclusive 2) A lot of hard work has gone into it 3) They are going to have to rerun the bid for the 2022 world cup 4) This is going to be the dominant story in the country for the next few days
It will certainly be of more interest to the bloke in the pub than anything else.
Mr Jim
now listening to Die Forelle
Silly old trout.
Mr P not at all, here in Warks we have a trout of time. I do hope you makr it up this way soon i'd be delighted to offer you food and accommodation. we'd treat you as well as Nadim Zahawis horses. let me know if you you're up this way. Now on Beethoven Violin Concerto,
Soloist?
Difficult to choose.
Oistrakh maybe?
I realise you live in the cultural desert of the South east but here we have the CBSO and Freddie Starr.
UKIP won by 2200 in Gedling vs 1400 in Broxtowe, with Labour 600 ahead of the Tories vs 700 in Broxtowe. Fairly similar to us, as usual. The interesting result was perhaps Amber Valley next door, which meets most of your conditions - overwhelmingly WWC, former coalfield, and so on. It voted UKIP as the Euros by a margin of 2200, but on the same day the same voters returned local authority control to Labour.
Thanks Nick.
But it was no surprise that Labour took control of Amber Valley council as the 2010 round of councillors came up on the election cycle.
On the wider issue UKIP will likely breakthrough locally in areas which have traditionally been 'one party states' and where they can hoover up the opposition vote rather than those, such as Amber Valley, which have long been close two party battlegrounds.
The more I read the Sunday Times' articles and stuff on the Qatari World Cup bid, I'm left with the following thoughts
1) It is a proper world exclusive 2) A lot of hard work has gone into it 3) They are going to have to rerun the bid for the 2022 world cup 4) This is going to be the dominant story in the country for the next few days
It will certainly be of more interest to the bloke in the pub than anything else.
Mr Jim
now listening to Die Forelle
Silly old trout.
Mr P not at all, here in Warks we have a trout of time. I do hope you makr it up this way soon i'd be delighted to offer you food and accommodation. we'd treat you as well as Nadim Zahawis horses. let me know if you you're up this way. Now on Beethoven Violin Concerto,
Ah possibly the most intriguing violin concerto out there, not as virtuosic as the later romantic pieces and on a vast scale. The first movement is longer than some entire works and the 4 beat timpani intro is cheeky. The third movement is boisterously entertaining, and the coda and final couple of bars are just genius.
Violins
it's the 3 Bs
Beethoven, Bruch, Brahms. Can't be bettered.
I like the Mendelssohn as well. The Bruch is amazing especially live.
The more I read the Sunday Times' articles and stuff on the Qatari World Cup bid, I'm left with the following thoughts
1) It is a proper world exclusive 2) A lot of hard work has gone into it 3) They are going to have to rerun the bid for the 2022 world cup 4) This is going to be the dominant story in the country for the next few days
It will certainly be of more interest to the bloke in the pub than anything else.
Mr Jim
now listening to Die Forelle
Silly old trout.
Mr P not at all, here in Warks we have a trout of time. I do hope you makr it up this way soon i'd be delighted to offer you food and accommodation. we'd treat you as well as Nadim Zahawis horses. let me know if you you're up this way. Now on Beethoven Violin Concerto,
Warwickshire's OK - I'm still around in the Coventry area during the week
Mr P let's fix up with SO in the next fortnight then.
The more I read the Sunday Times' articles and stuff on the Qatari World Cup bid, I'm left with the following thoughts
1) It is a proper world exclusive 2) A lot of hard work has gone into it 3) They are going to have to rerun the bid for the 2022 world cup 4) This is going to be the dominant story in the country for the next few days
It will certainly be of more interest to the bloke in the pub than anything else.
Mr Jim
now listening to Die Forelle
Silly old trout.
Mr P not at all, here in Warks we have a trout of time. I do hope you makr it up this way soon i'd be delighted to offer you food and accommodation. we'd treat you as well as Nadim Zahawis horses. let me know if you you're up this way. Now on Beethoven Violin Concerto,
Soloist?
Difficult to choose.
Oistrakh maybe?
I realise you live in the cultural desert of the South east but here we have the CBSO and Freddie Starr.
You're having a Tetzlaff.
Avery you really must get out of London. Why not spend a weekend in the coffee plantations of Warwickshire ? At least you'd understand Kultur.
The more I read the Sunday Times' articles and stuff on the Qatari World Cup bid, I'm left with the following thoughts
1) It is a proper world exclusive 2) A lot of hard work has gone into it 3) They are going to have to rerun the bid for the 2022 world cup 4) This is going to be the dominant story in the country for the next few days
It will certainly be of more interest to the bloke in the pub than anything else.
Mr Jim
now listening to Die Forelle
Silly old trout.
Mr P not at all, here in Warks we have a trout of time. I do hope you makr it up this way soon i'd be delighted to offer you food and accommodation. we'd treat you as well as Nadim Zahawis horses. let me know if you you're up this way. Now on Beethoven Violin Concerto,
Ah possibly the most intriguing violin concerto out there, not as virtuosic as the later romantic pieces and on a vast scale. The first movement is longer than some entire works and the 4 beat timpani intro is cheeky. The third movement is boisterously entertaining, and the coda and final couple of bars are just genius.
Violins
it's the 3 Bs
Beethoven, Bruch, Brahms. Can't be bettered.
I like the Mendelssohn as well. The Bruch is amazing especially live.
Yes. For a while I hadn't listened to Bruch VC but Nicola Benedetti at the proms brought me back to it.
The more I read the Sunday Times' articles and stuff on the Qatari World Cup bid, I'm left with the following thoughts
1) It is a proper world exclusive 2) A lot of hard work has gone into it 3) They are going to have to rerun the bid for the 2022 world cup 4) This is going to be the dominant story in the country for the next few days
It will certainly be of more interest to the bloke in the pub than anything else.
Mr Jim
now listening to Die Forelle
Silly old trout.
Mr P not at all, here in Warks we have a trout of time. I do hope you makr it up this way soon i'd be delighted to offer you food and accommodation. we'd treat you as well as Nadim Zahawis horses. let me know if you you're up this way. Now on Beethoven Violin Concerto,
Ah possibly the most intriguing violin concerto out there, not as virtuosic as the later romantic pieces and on a vast scale. The first movement is longer than some entire works and the 4 beat timpani intro is cheeky. The third movement is boisterously entertaining, and the coda and final couple of bars are just genius.
Violins
it's the 3 Bs
Beethoven, Bruch, Brahms. Can't be bettered.
I like the Mendelssohn as well. The Bruch is amazing especially live.
Yes. For a while I hadn't listened to Bruch VC but Nicola Benedetti at the proms brought me back to it.
The more I read the Sunday Times' articles and stuff on the Qatari World Cup bid, I'm left with the following thoughts
1) It is a proper world exclusive 2) A lot of hard work has gone into it 3) They are going to have to rerun the bid for the 2022 world cup 4) This is going to be the dominant story in the country for the next few days
It will certainly be of more interest to the bloke in the pub than anything else.
Mr Jim
now listening to Die Forelle
Silly old trout.
Mr P not at all, here in Warks we have a trout of time. I do hope you makr it up this way soon i'd be delighted to offer you food and accommodation. we'd treat you as well as Nadim Zahawis horses. let me know if you you're up this way. Now on Beethoven Violin Concerto,
Ah possibly the most intriguing violin concerto out there, not as virtuosic as the later romantic pieces and on a vast scale. The first movement is longer than some entire works and the 4 beat timpani intro is cheeky. The third movement is boisterously entertaining, and the coda and final couple of bars are just genius.
Violins
it's the 3 Bs
Beethoven, Bruch, Brahms. Can't be bettered.
I like the Mendelssohn as well. The Bruch is amazing especially live.
Yes. For a while I hadn't listened to Bruch VC but Nicola Benedetti at the proms brought me back to it.
Scotland is going to vote no, and it will be Salmond rather than Cameron who will be considering his position as FM and SNP leader after the result. I think that the current detox of the Conservatives in Scotland as they work hard on the ground as part of the Better Together camp is definitely worthy of a thread at some point.
It would hardly be his fault if the Union has been so unattractive to many Scots for a long time, nor is he orchestrating the pro-Union campaign, but while he has no obligation to go in the event of a Yes vote, and it is appearing less likely apparently, it might well be appropriate for him to fall on his sword. I would not condemn him for doing it, even if I would not condemn him for not doing it, I suppose.
The more I read the Sunday Times' articles and stuff on the Qatari World Cup bid, I'm left with the following thoughts
1) It is a proper world exclusive 2) A lot of hard work has gone into it 3) They are going to have to rerun the bid for the 2022 world cup 4) This is going to be the dominant story in the country for the next few days
It will certainly be of more interest to the bloke in the pub than anything else.
Mr Jim
now listening to Die Forelle
Silly old trout.
Mr P not at all, here in Warks we have a trout of time. I do hope you makr it up this way soon i'd be delighted to offer you food and accommodation. we'd treat you as well as Nadim Zahawis horses. let me know if you you're up this way. Now on Beethoven Violin Concerto,
Ah possibly the most intriguing violin concerto out there, not as virtuosic as the later romantic pieces and on a vast scale. The first movement is longer than some entire works and the 4 beat timpani intro is cheeky. The third movement is boisterously entertaining, and the coda and final couple of bars are just genius.
Violins
it's the 3 Bs
Beethoven, Bruch, Brahms. Can't be bettered.
I like the Mendelssohn as well. The Bruch is amazing especially live.
Yes. For a while I hadn't listened to Bruch VC but Nicola Benedetti at the proms brought me back to it.
@Alanbrooke I'm not averse to him, I don't go out of my way. The Brahms in D Minor is terrific and very dark and brooding. I like a couple by Ferdinand Ries, the Beethoven's are cracking, chopin suffers from the fact the orchestration is abysmal, and then I adore the Rachmaninov stuff.
The more I read the Sunday Times' articles and stuff on the Qatari World Cup bid, I'm left with the following thoughts
1) It is a proper world exclusive 2) A lot of hard work has gone into it 3) They are going to have to rerun the bid for the 2022 world cup 4) This is going to be the dominant story in the country for the next few days
It will certainly be of more interest to the bloke in the pub than anything else.
Mr Jim
now listening to Die Forelle
Silly old trout.
Mr P not at all, here in Warks we have a trout of time. I do hope you makr it up this way soon i'd be delighted to offer you food and accommodation. we'd treat you as well as Nadim Zahawis horses. let me know if you you're up this way. Now on Beethoven Violin Concerto,
Ah possibly the most intriguing violin concerto out there, not as virtuosic as the later romantic pieces and on a vast scale. The first movement is longer than some entire works and the 4 beat timpani intro is cheeky. The third movement is boisterously entertaining, and the coda and final couple of bars are just genius.
Violins
it's the 3 Bs
Beethoven, Bruch, Brahms. Can't be bettered.
I like the Mendelssohn as well. The Bruch is amazing especially live.
Yes. For a while I hadn't listened to Bruch VC but Nicola Benedetti at the proms brought me back to it.
The more I read the Sunday Times' articles and stuff on the Qatari World Cup bid, I'm left with the following thoughts
1) It is a proper world exclusive 2) A lot of hard work has gone into it 3) They are going to have to rerun the bid for the 2022 world cup 4) This is going to be the dominant story in the country for the next few days
It will certainly be of more interest to the bloke in the pub than anything else.
Mr Jim
now listening to Die Forelle
Silly old trout.
Mr P not at all, here in Warks we have a trout of time. I do hope you makr it up this way soon i'd be delighted to offer you food and accommodation. we'd treat you as well as Nadim Zahawis horses. let me know if you you're up this way. Now on Beethoven Violin Concerto,
Ah possibly the most intriguing violin concerto out there, not as virtuosic as the later romantic pieces and on a vast scale. The first movement is longer than some entire works and the 4 beat timpani intro is cheeky. The third movement is boisterously entertaining, and the coda and final couple of bars are just genius.
Violins
it's the 3 Bs
Beethoven, Bruch, Brahms. Can't be bettered.
I like the Mendelssohn as well. The Bruch is amazing especially live.
Yes. For a while I hadn't listened to Bruch VC but Nicola Benedetti at the proms brought me back to it.
Comments
I'm assuming that's an reference to economics rather than yachting.
But if you could see things were heading for disaster why didn't Cameron and Osborne ? Why did they fail to capitalise on the imminent ruin of Labour's economic image, why did they continue to assume until the autumn of 2008 that all was well with the economy ?
I'll admit that I didn't understand the problems of the economy in the summer of 2007 although I was rather baffled as to what was funding all the consumer spending and house price rises. But then it wasn't my job to understand the economy. After Northern Rock I did research things and was horrified in what I discovered. Yet Cameron and Osborne never seemed to have done any research on the economy even though it was their job to understand such things.
Now I have never doubted that Cameron is highly intelligent (and has a few other qualities as well) but I think he is intellectually lazy and arrogant. He doesn't look outside his comfort zone and he doesn't notice things and think about them. This is why I think he failed to capitalise on Labour's economic failings and Labour's wwc vulnerability. He wasn't interested in them and might have thought them beneath him, his views have never shifted beyond whatever the current Notting Hill dinner party discussion is. That's why I think he's been a bad leader of the Conservative party.
Ukip comma chief Patrick O'Flynn tells Ofcom it would be unthinkable if Farage is frozen out if debates or Ukip treated differently to Libs
He got turfed out on his arse after Second World war because people didn't fancy their families living in "single ends" (look it up) while their kids got crippled by rickets and died of TB.
After the war a bankrupt country embarked on a massive house building program, and created the NHS.... That government lost power because people became tired of austerity, but even the most rabid of your fellow Tories knew that undoing it would cause a major re-alignment.
History sometimes holds lessons.
Now sing me a little song about St George who rebuilt the economy to look creepily like the one we had before the crash.
Cameron the heir to Blair, George the heir to Brown.
There's a great scene in The Great Race where the opponents Tony Curtis and Jack Lemmon find themselves stranded on a melting iceberg.
Curtis tells his archrival Lemmon not to panic.
Lemmon says he's not panicking, but "when the water reaches my bottom lip I am sure as hell going to tell somebody."
Funny that.
But that's an A1 KO any day of the week.
7 Labour MPs (inc Frank Field, Kate Hoey & John Mann) say party should end/change free movement in EU http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/31/labour-tough-line-mass-migration … (Obs
"The Tories will never out-Labour Labour on low incomes, so they shouldn't bother to discuss raising the incomes of the poor. By talking about the issue all they will do is encourage the idea that there is free money to go round to everyone, and if people think that, they will never turn to the Conservatives for answers."
"The Lib Dems will never out-Conservative the Conservatives on creating a pro-business enviroment, so they shouldn't bother to talk about how to improve our competitiveness. All that will ever do is cement the idea that we must have a race to the bottom in tax rates, and if people think that, they will never turn to the Liberal Democrats for answers."
Clearly, it's a thick, stupid argument. But lefties have ideological blinders on when it comes to immigration so they can't see what's right in front of their noses.
I can remember a Labour campaign in 2010 but I don't remember this 'Mandelson campaign'.
Perhaps you could link to a Mandelson campaign PPB as a starter.
BTW you do realise how Mandelson is viewed across most of the country ?
Even if it is a huge mistake for us, we can always reapply later, though of course they would make us pay a very large price and oodles of humble pie were that the case.
But that's what's needed at the very top.
I have quite a lot on my plate atm and it could go either way business wise since I'm taking a few risks. But if I get it sorted I shall head down Sussex way and buy you a beer, I feel this is long overdue. Alternatively if your in the Mids give me a shout.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcRXbsPafBM
1) It is a proper world exclusive
2) A lot of hard work has gone into it
3) They are going to have to rerun the bid for the 2022 world cup
4) This is going to be the dominant story in the country for the next few days
Cameron? The Tories are doing ok, kind of, in the polls - one can even argue that they are doing well, though I do not think it enough personally, given it is more that Labour have fallen back a little in the general trend - so if he does go it will have to be from something huge or of his own accord, like losing the Scottish Independence vote. Just being suspected by many in the party of being too crap to win is probably not enough, especially with so many clinging to the 'Ed M is so crap we will definitely win' idea.
Miliband? Polls could be better, but so much favours them, and nothing coming up offers opportunity for him to be really humiliated electorally, and so often we hear the refrain from tribal supporters of various parties that appearing divided is worse than having a crap leader (I paraphrase, obviously), so how would be be ousted? There's enough of a chance of a win regardless of Ed M that it's not worth removing him.
Whilst we are talking about the immediate post war government. Don't forget that they not only wanted to keep the empire but extend it. And who was it that started rationing bread? Who was it that proved a command economy in a democracy couldn't actually work?
This History stuff is a bugger. Are you ready to explain how history proves there are limits to mankind's ingenuity yet?
Which, of couse, was also one reason why how UKIP went from fringe party to mainstream party while broadly saying the same thing the whole time. Pressures build up and eventually, in a rush, people's opinions shift decisively and possibly permamently.
now listening to Die Forelle
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Revolt-Right-Explaining-Extremism-Democracy/dp/0415661501/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1401574236&sr=1-1&keywords=revolt+on+the+right
Euro result in Broxtowe:
UKIP 9,488 (31.0%)
Lab 8,118 (26.5%)
Con 7,386 (24.1%)
Green 2,374 (7.8%)
LD 1,957 (6.4%)
AIFE 467 (1.5%)
BNP 444 (1.5%)
Eng Dem 311 (1.0%)
Harmony 43 (0.1%)
http://www.broxtowe.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=13381
http://t.co/flnPZktU0S
Which is why Don Valley is better for them than Doncaster, Rother Valley than Rotherham, Penistone & Stocksbridge than Barnsley, Morley & Outwood rather than Wakefield.
The big towns are too public sector dominated whereas the 'industrial sprawl' constituencies are demographically trending rightwards with each new commuter home built by the motorways and with each old miner (or miner's wife) who dies.
Now that's the sort of local knowledge I wouldn't expect the metropolitan political establishment to know firsthand. But in these days of the internet there's no reason not to be aware of it and many other things happening outside their personal experience.
Instead the metropolitan 'elite' seem to become ever more closed minded and to take a pride in so being.
Thanks. I think it more likely that I will have the time to visit you than the other way around. Now that there seems to be some definite progress on the eyesight front I may soon be allowed to do overnight stays. Maybe we could tie in with Mssrs Observer and, if possible, MalcolmG. Would be a great night out.
However, as Herself keeps saying, I must not plan too far ahead, it could all go wrong again and anyway if you are down this way do please let me buy you a drink at least.
Hope all goes well with the business risks. I am sure it will and, if necessary, Mr. Charles will be available for sound advice.
Produce the stats to back up your claims Smarmy and I will do battle with you.
Lab 23,631
UKIP 14,558
Con 8,987
Green 5,531
LD 2,451
BNP 1,183
AIFE 979
Eng Dem 667
Harmony 135
http://www.nottinghamcity.gov.uk/article/27601/European-Parliamentary-Elections---Results
Spot the subtle pop music references with my commendable (if reckless) honesty
"The last Labour Government of which Ed Miliband and Ed Balls were members off, had a worse record than Peter Andre"
Fwiw, I don't actually disagree with the idea of limiting immigration from other EU countries (I kind of think it's letting the governments of those countries off the hook from their responsibility to provide jobs and decent living standards for all their citizens). But, much as it pains me to agree with Dan Hodges, no matter how sensible a suggestion, in this current hysteria it's just going to add to the kind of disgusting stigmatisation of immigrants who are here (who, no matter what the system's problems, the immigrants themselves have done nothing wrong). Labour should have no part in it, it's bad politics and bad morals.
How does Gedling compare ?
Debt fueled consumer spending, check. Bundled debts back to pre crash prices, check, House prices out stripping inflation and wages, check, Economy reliant on the service sector, check, The rich getting richer, check, Peasants getting poorer check.
If it looks like a turd and smells like a turd, it is fairly certain it is a turd.
That's a short but insightful article. Sadiq Khan is deliberately playing ethnic politics because he's a savvy operator, and wants to become Mayor of London by running up huge margins with the ethnic vote. By any logical standard, whites should deserve preference over, say, Arabs given they have lower incomes. But of course, whites don't deserve racial favouritism. The bloke on the Essex council estate needs to check his privilege you see...
Lab 7,867 (26.7%)
Con 7,290 (24.7%)
Green 1,803 (6.1%)
LD 1,152 (3.9%)
AIFE 515 (1.7%)
BNP 399 (1.4%)
Eng Dem 310 (1.1%)
Harmony 54 (0.2%)
The areas in the North which have potential for the Conservatives, and UKIP now, are not the industrial towns but the industrial sprawls which surround them.
Which is why Don Valley is better for them than Doncaster, Rother Valley than Rotherham, Penistone & Stocksbridge than Barnsley, Morley & Outwood rather than Wakefield.
If the surroundings of Doncaster are known as Don Valley and Rotherham as Rother Valley, what on earth happened to the environs of Penistone?
Also check Chart 2b here. Thanks to this government, it's the top decile that's getting hit the most:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/221894/budget2013_distributional_analysis.pdf
Too late to fire up excel.
Mr P not at all, here in Warks we have a trout of time. I do hope you makr it up this way soon i'd be delighted to offer you food and accommodation. we'd treat you as well as Nadim Zahawis horses. let me know if you you're up this way. Now on Beethoven Violin Concerto,
Tell me what the service sector actually produces, and where the money comes from and I will answer your first question.
And as for your poor top percentile? Those are the ones who have seen their wealth double since the crash, and those immediately below them have seen circa 10% wage increases year on year.
My heart bleeds for the poor souls.
Avery and his friends would tell you.....but you mustn't tell the tax man, it has to be our little secret.
Difficult to choose.
Oistrakh maybe?
As to Labour's 2015 campaign it was trash, yet is still beat the Conservatives. What we had was one bunch of PPE boys competing against another bunch of PPE boys in building monuments to incompetance.
Willow seeds, Regent's Park - producing the "snow" pictured in my previous tweet pic.twitter.com/SZZ1QREY4B
Sunil Prasannan @Sunil_P2 ·32 mins
It was "snowing" in Regent's Park in London today! Actually seeds from willow trees! pic.twitter.com/flnPZktU0S
it's the 3 Bs
Beethoven, Bruch, Brahms. Can't be bettered.
But it was no surprise that Labour took control of Amber Valley council as the 2010 round of councillors came up on the election cycle.
On the wider issue UKIP will likely breakthrough locally in areas which have traditionally been 'one party states' and where they can hoover up the opposition vote rather than those, such as Amber Valley, which have long been close two party battlegrounds.
At a guess it would suggest UKIP took more 2011 votes from Labour than from the Conservatives.
Is fracking all it's cracked up to be? Dermot discusses with @CarolineFlintMP and @natalieben at 11am on #Murnaghan pic.twitter.com/vGQQIPjCSh
twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/472803576222584832
Yes. For a while I hadn't listened to Bruch VC but Nicola Benedetti at the proms brought me back to it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmMN-6g1L8w
Early start tomorrow, but when you want to find out who is to blame........."Follow the money" as someone said.
I'm not averse to him, I don't go out of my way. The Brahms in D Minor is terrific and very dark and brooding. I like a couple by Ferdinand Ries, the Beethoven's are cracking, chopin suffers from the fact the orchestration is abysmal, and then I adore the Rachmaninov stuff.
Or possibly Frankie Gavin.