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  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,578
    Several Iranian state-linked news agencies and online platforms have been targeted by cyber attacks following US and Israeli military strikes on Iran, according to the Telegram channel of the hard-line Hamshahri daily.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,629
    edited 8:36AM
    If Trump had acted before tens of thousands were murdered by the government, just a few strikes at key sites might have created panic in the regime and toppled it before the mass murders began. So it really sickens me to hear him take on the mantle of helping the Iranian opposition when we know that for Trump war is haggling by other means - this is principally about coercing the Iranian regime into upping their payoff to him personally.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,963

    Leon said:

    Shanghai is very pleasant in the early spring sun

    That is one place I've always wanted to visit, mainly because of its colonial history. I'd be interested to hear what you make of it.
    I see you can stay in the 1930s Broadway Mansions overlooking the Suzhou Creek for less than £100 per night

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadway_Mansions
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,783
    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    Shanghai is very pleasant in the early spring sun

    That is one place I've always wanted to visit, mainly because of its colonial history. I'd be interested to hear what you make of it.
    I see you can stay in the 1930s Broadway Mansions overlooking the Suzhou Creek for less than £100 per night

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadway_Mansions
    Prices everywhere are NUTS

    You can stay in the best 5 star hotel in Guilin for £60, last time I looked
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,751

    If Trump had acted before tens of thousands were murdered by the government, just a few strikes at key sites might have created panic in the regime and toppled it before the mass murders began. So it really sickens me to hear him take on the mantle of helping the Iranian opposition when we know that for Trump war is haggling by other means - this is principally about coercing the Iranian regime into upping their payoff to him personally.

    And/or distracting from the Epstein saga.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,265
    ydoethur said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I think Labour’s fundamental policy platform (aside from their total disinterest in planning) is fine it’s just been poorly communicated.

    A better leader might be able to sell the policies better. But I’d not want a fundamental change in approach.

    Very very true.

    The time when communicating it proerly has slipped by but what we will now start to see is many plans, projects begin th have REAL impact and then it starts to become self communicating.

    A slight 20 degree shift to the left as i proposed yesterday would optimise the benefits and bring about speedier and more relevant change, not a knee jerk left turm, more a gentle bend in the road.

    The benefit of being in Government and being the only Party able to make change really can start to pay off now.

    The Greens to out left are too extreme in many policy issues, Labour really need to tap in to the Social Care concerns of Davey, to the right Reform and various derivatives are also too extreme and Tories have very little new Policy to offer, what they offer is ill conceived and not budgeted and invariably it is Reform like and dangerously similar.

    Leadership change when it comes (not if) has to optimise the opportunity. My guess is that it may now by in June / July as opposed to the Autumn. The Tories though I suspect will be first to blink.
    Labours policy is to tax people and business to unsustainable levels. We may have to.pay but Labour will be screwed come the election
    Getting more money on benefits that working is unsustainable . Taxing business is increasing costs and results in price increases and loss of jobs.
    Don't forget this absolutely crackers MTD (Making Tax Digital) nonsense inflicted on the self-employed (I think landlords as well). A pointless waste of time for the sake of bureaucracy and enriching the third party private sector firms necessary, because for some bloody reason it's not possible to submit the pointless quarterly information to HMRC directly.
    It includes anyone who has income not from employment above the relevant threshold.

    It can be got round to some extent by registering a limited company.
    Indeed, but “to some extent” means annual returns not quarterly - you still have to use (and pay for) third party software to submit those returns. HMRC are literally turning off their in-house software that allowed you to do it fairly easy online.

    In other words, the Government now requires you to pay for the privilege of giving them money.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 7,066
    Trump telling the Iranian people to take over their government.

    I don’t see how this bombing will help do that . Unless the army pull the plug it’s just going to lead to thousands more deaths .
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,629
    Ratters said:

    nico67 said:

    Not sure how this will bring about regime change ?

    Most people would celebrate if that did happen but it’s not just one branch that needs to pull the plug for the regime to fall.

    Well Trump has warned about likely US casualties so maybe they will do limited boots on ground to assassinate key figures
    I was thinking this: Trump's objectives are so maximalist (destruction missiles, nuclear capabilities and regime change) that I struggle to see how it can be achieved through air attacks alone. They tried that a few months ago for the first two objectives and clearly not satisfied with the results.

    I agree with the above that removing the Iranian regime and replacement with any kind of stable alternative government would be a good thing for Iran and the world. But wars of this scale come fraught with risks and could end up making things worse.

    We can only wait and see now. It's not our war.
    Trump's stated objectives are often wildly at variance to what he is actually aiming to achieve.

    It would not surprise me to see the RAF involved in shooting down missiles heading towards Israel, so Britain is likely to be more directly involved in this war than in the Russo-Ukraine War.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,783

    If Trump had acted before tens of thousands were murdered by the government, just a few strikes at key sites might have created panic in the regime and toppled it before the mass murders began. So it really sickens me to hear him take on the mantle of helping the Iranian opposition when we know that for Trump war is haggling by other means - this is principally about coercing the Iranian regime into upping their payoff to him personally.

    It's at times like this we all miss Rolf Harris
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,629

    If Trump had acted before tens of thousands were murdered by the government, just a few strikes at key sites might have created panic in the regime and toppled it before the mass murders began. So it really sickens me to hear him take on the mantle of helping the Iranian opposition when we know that for Trump war is haggling by other means - this is principally about coercing the Iranian regime into upping their payoff to him personally.

    And/or distracting from the Epstein saga.
    Oh yes, of course. The last few days have had the allegations of Trump sexually abusing a minor in those files, and the attempts to cover that up.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,607
    Roger said:

    A good day for Russia. Difficult to criticise anything happening in Ukraine after this.

    You need help.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,629

    ydoethur said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I think Labour’s fundamental policy platform (aside from their total disinterest in planning) is fine it’s just been poorly communicated.

    A better leader might be able to sell the policies better. But I’d not want a fundamental change in approach.

    Very very true.

    The time when communicating it proerly has slipped by but what we will now start to see is many plans, projects begin th have REAL impact and then it starts to become self communicating.

    A slight 20 degree shift to the left as i proposed yesterday would optimise the benefits and bring about speedier and more relevant change, not a knee jerk left turm, more a gentle bend in the road.

    The benefit of being in Government and being the only Party able to make change really can start to pay off now.

    The Greens to out left are too extreme in many policy issues, Labour really need to tap in to the Social Care concerns of Davey, to the right Reform and various derivatives are also too extreme and Tories have very little new Policy to offer, what they offer is ill conceived and not budgeted and invariably it is Reform like and dangerously similar.

    Leadership change when it comes (not if) has to optimise the opportunity. My guess is that it may now by in June / July as opposed to the Autumn. The Tories though I suspect will be first to blink.
    Labours policy is to tax people and business to unsustainable levels. We may have to.pay but Labour will be screwed come the election
    Getting more money on benefits that working is unsustainable . Taxing business is increasing costs and results in price increases and loss of jobs.
    Don't forget this absolutely crackers MTD (Making Tax Digital) nonsense inflicted on the self-employed (I think landlords as well). A pointless waste of time for the sake of bureaucracy and enriching the third party private sector firms necessary, because for some bloody reason it's not possible to submit the pointless quarterly information to HMRC directly.
    It includes anyone who has income not from employment above the relevant threshold.

    It can be got round to some extent by registering a limited company.
    Indeed, but “to some extent” means annual returns not quarterly - you still have to use (and pay for) third party software to submit those returns. HMRC are literally turning off their in-house software that allowed you to do it fairly easy online.

    In other words, the Government now requires you to pay for the privilege of giving them money.
    That is an aspect that does seem completely nuts.

    I think it points to one of the biggest problems with the civil service in general - industry capture.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,176
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Not sure how this will bring about regime change ?

    Most people would celebrate if that did happen but it’s not just one branch that needs to pull the plug for the regime to fall.

    Well Trump has warned about likely US casualties so maybe they will do limited boots on ground to assassinate key figures
    I can’t see boots on the ground . And Iran has several branches of hideousness, not just the army but revolutionary guard who won’t be into regime change .
    Trump doesn’t want boots on the ground, because he knows that ends up with coffins draped in American flags coming back.

    He’ll happily rain Hell down from stealth bombers at 50,000 ft, because that’s of little actual risk to those who serve. Iranian air defences are all old Russian kit, useless against today’s airbourne threats.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,629
    Leon said:

    If Trump had acted before tens of thousands were murdered by the government, just a few strikes at key sites might have created panic in the regime and toppled it before the mass murders began. So it really sickens me to hear him take on the mantle of helping the Iranian opposition when we know that for Trump war is haggling by other means - this is principally about coercing the Iranian regime into upping their payoff to him personally.

    It's at times like this we all miss Rolf Harris
    Okay weirdo.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,579

    ydoethur said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I think Labour’s fundamental policy platform (aside from their total disinterest in planning) is fine it’s just been poorly communicated.

    A better leader might be able to sell the policies better. But I’d not want a fundamental change in approach.

    Very very true.

    The time when communicating it proerly has slipped by but what we will now start to see is many plans, projects begin th have REAL impact and then it starts to become self communicating.

    A slight 20 degree shift to the left as i proposed yesterday would optimise the benefits and bring about speedier and more relevant change, not a knee jerk left turm, more a gentle bend in the road.

    The benefit of being in Government and being the only Party able to make change really can start to pay off now.

    The Greens to out left are too extreme in many policy issues, Labour really need to tap in to the Social Care concerns of Davey, to the right Reform and various derivatives are also too extreme and Tories have very little new Policy to offer, what they offer is ill conceived and not budgeted and invariably it is Reform like and dangerously similar.

    Leadership change when it comes (not if) has to optimise the opportunity. My guess is that it may now by in June / July as opposed to the Autumn. The Tories though I suspect will be first to blink.
    Labours policy is to tax people and business to unsustainable levels. We may have to.pay but Labour will be screwed come the election
    Getting more money on benefits that working is unsustainable . Taxing business is increasing costs and results in price increases and loss of jobs.
    Don't forget this absolutely crackers MTD (Making Tax Digital) nonsense inflicted on the self-employed (I think landlords as well). A pointless waste of time for the sake of bureaucracy and enriching the third party private sector firms necessary, because for some bloody reason it's not possible to submit the pointless quarterly information to HMRC directly.
    It includes anyone who has income not from employment above the relevant threshold.

    It can be got round to some extent by registering a limited company.
    Indeed, but “to some extent” means annual returns not quarterly - you still have to use (and pay for) third party software to submit those returns. HMRC are literally turning off their in-house software that allowed you to do it fairly easy online.

    In other words, the Government now requires you to pay for the privilege of giving them money.
    That is an aspect that does seem completely nuts.

    I think it points to one of the biggest problems with the civil service in general - industry capture.
    Hang on: so even people not caught by the quarterly madness won't be able to submit their annual return via the HMRC site?

    They've removed the capacity to fill in a form on the Government website, actively making it worse while also adding the necessity of using a third party private sector firm for submitting the information?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 7,066
    Sandpit said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Not sure how this will bring about regime change ?

    Most people would celebrate if that did happen but it’s not just one branch that needs to pull the plug for the regime to fall.

    Well Trump has warned about likely US casualties so maybe they will do limited boots on ground to assassinate key figures
    I can’t see boots on the ground . And Iran has several branches of hideousness, not just the army but revolutionary guard who won’t be into regime change .
    Trump doesn’t want boots on the ground, because he knows that ends up with coffins draped in American flags coming back.

    He’ll happily rain Hell down from stealth bombers at 50,000 ft, because that’s of little actual risk to those who serve. Iranian air defences are all old Russian kit, useless against today’s airbourne threats.
    I still don’t see how this leads to toppling the regime . And Trump telling Iranians to take their chance , how does this happen . Unless the army side with the protesters it’s going to see thousands more deaths .
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,783
    edited 8:48AM

    Leon said:

    If Trump had acted before tens of thousands were murdered by the government, just a few strikes at key sites might have created panic in the regime and toppled it before the mass murders began. So it really sickens me to hear him take on the mantle of helping the Iranian opposition when we know that for Trump war is haggling by other means - this is principally about coercing the Iranian regime into upping their payoff to him personally.

    It's at times like this we all miss Rolf Harris
    Okay weirdo.
    Why is that "weird"??

    What a peculiar response. I'm just saying that with Israel and America launching an all-out attack on Iran, in a bid to prevent the Islamofascist regime gaining nuclear weapons and launching world war 3, it would help - and actually help quite significantly - if Rolf Harris could get out there, to Iran, and play his didgeridoo

    Then he could sing that song about Jake the Peg with his Extra Leg. This would simultaneously mystify the Tehran regime and bring comfort to people in Iran with additional limbs. Yes there's a downside with hiding away all the kids in Iran but they're hiding ANYWAY

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,095
    CRY "HAVOC", AND LET SLIP THE DEPARTMENT OF WAR!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,058
    Roger said:

    A good day for Russia. Difficult to criticise anything happening in Ukraine after this.

    Surely you cannot support the murderous Ayatollah can you ?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,964
    Has Gordon Brown sent a dossier he has compiled to anyone about Iran yet?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,981
    edited 8:53AM
    Hapoy Birthday Big G - but, if you are celebrating your 82nd birthday today - might your actual d.o.b be 29th Feb? In which case you are really still 20 and the youngest on the board?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,058
    nico67 said:

    Leon said:

    Donald looking well.




    Apropos of nothing, I read that the original Jaba the Hutt in Return of the Jedi was a one ton puppet operated by several puppeteers.

    He is 80 in a couple of months. Sad to say, not many men look great at 80. So I'm not sure he's particularly or uniquely unaesthetic. He's just old
    I am 82 today and know the feeling
    Happy Birthday . I hope you’ve got something special planned with the wife and family .
    Thank you

    Just time with our children and grandchildren at home

    Precious moments for us
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,783
    Hmm

    This is encouraging, in a ghoulish way

    Breaking: Amir Hatami, Iran's Defense Minister, was eliminated.

    He threatened to destroy Tel Aviv and Haifa 🤭

    (multiple reports on X)

    IF this is true maybe this is a serious and concerted effort to take out the entire regime. Ins'allah it works
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,499
    Sandpit said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Not sure how this will bring about regime change ?

    Most people would celebrate if that did happen but it’s not just one branch that needs to pull the plug for the regime to fall.

    Well Trump has warned about likely US casualties so maybe they will do limited boots on ground to assassinate key figures
    I can’t see boots on the ground . And Iran has several branches of hideousness, not just the army but revolutionary guard who won’t be into regime change .
    Trump doesn’t want boots on the ground, because he knows that ends up with coffins draped in American flags coming back.

    He’ll happily rain Hell down from stealth bombers at 50,000 ft, because that’s of little actual risk to those who serve. Iranian air defences are all old Russian kit, useless against today’s airbourne threats.
    Explosion in Bahrain and Qatar closes airspace
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,578

    Has Gordon Brown sent a dossier he has compiled to anyone about Iran yet?

    No, but Donald Trump got Al Campbell to prepare one.

    Hence the war.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,177

    CRY "HAVOC", AND LET SLIP THE DEPARTMENT OF WAR!

    Do started wars have to be netted off against all the wars Trump has ended?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,964
    Iranian naval bases in the red sea targeted and hit

    Missiles inbound to Israel, see how the iron dome is holding up
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,624

    CRY "HAVOC", AND LET SLIP THE DEPARTMENT OF WAR!

    Do started wars have to be netted off against all the wars Trump has ended?
    Tough call for the Board of Peace
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,177
    Battlebus said:

    IanB2 said:

    Looks like the US is involved; not just Israel

    Unusual that they chose a Saturday?

    They were waiting for the results of Gorton & Denton.
    Yep, it's a big "Fuck you!" to the voters...
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,284
    nico67 said:

    Sandpit said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Not sure how this will bring about regime change ?

    Most people would celebrate if that did happen but it’s not just one branch that needs to pull the plug for the regime to fall.

    Well Trump has warned about likely US casualties so maybe they will do limited boots on ground to assassinate key figures
    I can’t see boots on the ground . And Iran has several branches of hideousness, not just the army but revolutionary guard who won’t be into regime change .
    Trump doesn’t want boots on the ground, because he knows that ends up with coffins draped in American flags coming back.

    He’ll happily rain Hell down from stealth bombers at 50,000 ft, because that’s of little actual risk to those who serve. Iranian air defences are all old Russian kit, useless against today’s airbourne threats.
    I still don’t see how this leads to toppling the regime . And Trump telling Iranians to take their chance , how does this happen . Unless the army side with the protesters it’s going to see thousands more deaths .
    I think it's abundantly clear that neither he nor Netanyahu seriously expect the regime to fall. They've got their excuses in early by pinning the failure on the Iranian people. They just want to destroy a load of stuff and possibly ensure that someone more compliant from the current regime comes to power and does a better deal.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,487

    If Trump had acted before tens of thousands were murdered by the government, just a few strikes at key sites might have created panic in the regime and toppled it before the mass murders began. So it really sickens me to hear him take on the mantle of helping the Iranian opposition when we know that for Trump war is haggling by other means - this is principally about coercing the Iranian regime into upping their payoff to him personally.

    Donation to the board of peace incoming.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,058
    Cookie said:

    Hapoy Birthday Big G - but, if you are celebrating your 82nd birthday today - might your actual d.o.b be 29th Feb? In which case you are really still 20 and the youngest on the board?

    Yes - very much so
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,516
    edited 8:59AM
    Leon said:

    Hmm

    This is encouraging, in a ghoulish way

    Breaking: Amir Hatami, Iran's Defense Minister, was eliminated.

    He threatened to destroy Tel Aviv and Haifa 🤭

    (multiple reports on X)

    IF this is true maybe this is a serious and concerted effort to take out the entire regime. Ins'allah it works

    Brilliant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amir_Hatami

    Wiki already referring to him in the past tense!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,287
    edited 8:59AM
    My choice for next PM would be Emily Thornberry. The UK needs a grown up in charge who understands international law.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,487
    Stereodog said:

    nico67 said:

    Sandpit said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Not sure how this will bring about regime change ?

    Most people would celebrate if that did happen but it’s not just one branch that needs to pull the plug for the regime to fall.

    Well Trump has warned about likely US casualties so maybe they will do limited boots on ground to assassinate key figures
    I can’t see boots on the ground . And Iran has several branches of hideousness, not just the army but revolutionary guard who won’t be into regime change .
    Trump doesn’t want boots on the ground, because he knows that ends up with coffins draped in American flags coming back.

    He’ll happily rain Hell down from stealth bombers at 50,000 ft, because that’s of little actual risk to those who serve. Iranian air defences are all old Russian kit, useless against today’s airbourne threats.
    I still don’t see how this leads to toppling the regime . And Trump telling Iranians to take their chance , how does this happen . Unless the army side with the protesters it’s going to see thousands more deaths .
    I think it's abundantly clear that neither he nor Netanyahu seriously expect the regime to fall. They've got their excuses in early by pinning the failure on the Iranian people. They just want to destroy a load of stuff and possibly ensure that someone more compliant from the current regime comes to power and does a better deal.
    The regime is run by a bigoted reactionary old fossil, so you'd assume within it is at least a smoother talking bigoted reactionary.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,964

    Cookie said:

    Hapoy Birthday Big G - but, if you are celebrating your 82nd birthday today - might your actual d.o.b be 29th Feb? In which case you are really still 20 and the youngest on the board?

    Yes - very much so
    Happy Birthday
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,783
    Stereodog said:

    nico67 said:

    Sandpit said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Not sure how this will bring about regime change ?

    Most people would celebrate if that did happen but it’s not just one branch that needs to pull the plug for the regime to fall.

    Well Trump has warned about likely US casualties so maybe they will do limited boots on ground to assassinate key figures
    I can’t see boots on the ground . And Iran has several branches of hideousness, not just the army but revolutionary guard who won’t be into regime change .
    Trump doesn’t want boots on the ground, because he knows that ends up with coffins draped in American flags coming back.

    He’ll happily rain Hell down from stealth bombers at 50,000 ft, because that’s of little actual risk to those who serve. Iranian air defences are all old Russian kit, useless against today’s airbourne threats.
    I still don’t see how this leads to toppling the regime . And Trump telling Iranians to take their chance , how does this happen . Unless the army side with the protesters it’s going to see thousands more deaths .
    I think it's abundantly clear that neither he nor Netanyahu seriously expect the regime to fall. They've got their excuses in early by pinning the failure on the Iranian people. They just want to destroy a load of stuff and possibly ensure that someone more compliant from the current regime comes to power and does a better deal.
    Let's wait and see

    You're probably right but yielding immediately to total pessimism is a bit premature. Maybe Trump actually does have a plan to take out the Ayatollahs. We are allowed a shred of hope
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,058
    edited 9:02AM
    Roger said:

    My choice for next PM would be Emily Thornberry. The UK needs a grown up in charge who understands international law.

    Actually labour could do worse

    But she couldn't stop what is happening in the middle east with US and Israel if that is your motive
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,624
    @bluespacecanary.bsky.social‬

    the US once again sending the message loud and clear: never negotiate, just get nukes. Never compromise, just get nukes. Never give in to sanctions, just get nukes.

    what could go wrong
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,981
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If Trump had acted before tens of thousands were murdered by the government, just a few strikes at key sites might have created panic in the regime and toppled it before the mass murders began. So it really sickens me to hear him take on the mantle of helping the Iranian opposition when we know that for Trump war is haggling by other means - this is principally about coercing the Iranian regime into upping their payoff to him personally.

    It's at times like this we all miss Rolf Harris
    Okay weirdo.
    Why is that "weird"??

    What a peculiar response. I'm just saying that with Israel and America launching an all-out attack on Iran, in a bid to prevent the Islamofascist regime gaining nuclear weapons and launching world war 3, it would help - and actually help quite significantly - if Rolf Harris could get out there, to Iran, and play his didgeridoo

    Then he could sing that song about Jake the Peg with his Extra Leg. This would simultaneously mystify the Tehran regime and bring comfort to people in Iran with additional limbs. Yes there's a downside with hiding away all the kids in Iran but they're hiding ANYWAY

    Thinking through that generation of predatory males, they would all baffle the Iranian regime. What would they make of the arrival of Jimmy Savile? Fred Talbot could leap about a map of Iran. Stuart Hall could provide the commentary, complete with classical allusioms. They would be simultaneously confused and enraged.
    This generation of predatory males are rubbish by comparison. AMW isn't surreal or peculiar, just the worst human in the country.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,455
    Starting this in daylight is either an attempt at strategic surprise or the US and Israel are just so confident that the advantage of darkness isn't worth concerning about.

    If this is planned to go on as much as seen necessary, give it 2-3 days to see if Iran's response peters out.

    I knew those RAF ISTAR doing shuttles from Cyprus to southern Jordan and Israel last night were unusual. Absolutely no sense unless it was in the context of a shooting match coming.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,783
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If Trump had acted before tens of thousands were murdered by the government, just a few strikes at key sites might have created panic in the regime and toppled it before the mass murders began. So it really sickens me to hear him take on the mantle of helping the Iranian opposition when we know that for Trump war is haggling by other means - this is principally about coercing the Iranian regime into upping their payoff to him personally.

    It's at times like this we all miss Rolf Harris
    Okay weirdo.
    Why is that "weird"??

    What a peculiar response. I'm just saying that with Israel and America launching an all-out attack on Iran, in a bid to prevent the Islamofascist regime gaining nuclear weapons and launching world war 3, it would help - and actually help quite significantly - if Rolf Harris could get out there, to Iran, and play his didgeridoo

    Then he could sing that song about Jake the Peg with his Extra Leg. This would simultaneously mystify the Tehran regime and bring comfort to people in Iran with additional limbs. Yes there's a downside with hiding away all the kids in Iran but they're hiding ANYWAY

    Thinking through that generation of predatory males, they would all baffle the Iranian regime. What would they make of the arrival of Jimmy Savile? Fred Talbot could leap about a map of Iran. Stuart Hall could provide the commentary, complete with classical allusioms. They would be simultaneously confused and enraged.
    This generation of predatory males are rubbish by comparison. AMW isn't surreal or peculiar, just the worst human in the country.
    Exactly. You see my logic! Most people have no idea

    Britain could get involved, usefully, by parachuting "the hairy cornflake" - Dave Lee Travis - into the centre of Holy Qom

    We could also smuggle Diddy David Hamilton over the border, quite easily, as he is so small, hence his name
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,624
    @jakelahut.bsky.social‬

    CNN saying there have been explosions in Abu Dhabi, audible from their studio
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,265

    ydoethur said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I think Labour’s fundamental policy platform (aside from their total disinterest in planning) is fine it’s just been poorly communicated.

    A better leader might be able to sell the policies better. But I’d not want a fundamental change in approach.

    Very very true.

    The time when communicating it proerly has slipped by but what we will now start to see is many plans, projects begin th have REAL impact and then it starts to become self communicating.

    A slight 20 degree shift to the left as i proposed yesterday would optimise the benefits and bring about speedier and more relevant change, not a knee jerk left turm, more a gentle bend in the road.

    The benefit of being in Government and being the only Party able to make change really can start to pay off now.

    The Greens to out left are too extreme in many policy issues, Labour really need to tap in to the Social Care concerns of Davey, to the right Reform and various derivatives are also too extreme and Tories have very little new Policy to offer, what they offer is ill conceived and not budgeted and invariably it is Reform like and dangerously similar.

    Leadership change when it comes (not if) has to optimise the opportunity. My guess is that it may now by in June / July as opposed to the Autumn. The Tories though I suspect will be first to blink.
    Labours policy is to tax people and business to unsustainable levels. We may have to.pay but Labour will be screwed come the election
    Getting more money on benefits that working is unsustainable . Taxing business is increasing costs and results in price increases and loss of jobs.
    Don't forget this absolutely crackers MTD (Making Tax Digital) nonsense inflicted on the self-employed (I think landlords as well). A pointless waste of time for the sake of bureaucracy and enriching the third party private sector firms necessary, because for some bloody reason it's not possible to submit the pointless quarterly information to HMRC directly.
    It includes anyone who has income not from employment above the relevant threshold.

    It can be got round to some extent by registering a limited company.
    Indeed, but “to some extent” means annual returns not quarterly - you still have to use (and pay for) third party software to submit those returns. HMRC are literally turning off their in-house software that allowed you to do it fairly easy online.

    In other words, the Government now requires you to pay for the privilege of giving them money.
    That is an aspect that does seem completely nuts.

    I think it points to one of the biggest problems with the civil service in general - industry capture.
    Hang on: so even people not caught by the quarterly madness won't be able to submit their annual return via the HMRC site?

    They've removed the capacity to fill in a form on the Government website, actively making it worse while also adding the necessity of using a third party private sector firm for submitting the information?
    Yes. Got it in one.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,176
    Scott_xP said:

    @jakelahut.bsky.social‬

    CNN saying there have been explosions in Abu Dhabi, audible from their studio

    Err….
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,584
    Yokes said:

    Starting this in daylight is either an attempt at strategic surprise or the US and Israel are just so confident that the advantage of darkness isn't worth concerning about.

    If this is planned to go on as much as seen necessary, give it 2-3 days to see if Iran's response peters out.

    I knew those RAF ISTAR doing shuttles from Cyprus to southern Jordan and Israel last night were unusual. Absolutely no sense unless it was in the context of a shooting match coming.

    I imagine they're hoping that the people of Iran will see what's going on in daylight and on Saturday, and rise up - hopefully successfully this time. Not sure gambling with Iranian lives is wise (or moral), but we have to hope that it works.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,578
    Roger said:

    My choice for next PM would be Emily Thornberry. The UK needs a grown up in charge who understands international law.

    The perfect choice to win back support in the Red Wall.

    Clueless.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,624
    @kaitlancollins

    Qatar has intercepted two Iranian missiles over Qatar, per an official.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,783
    If Trump takes down the Tehran regime he will be a hero for all time

    Which will be kinda awkward, given his many sins
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 7,066
    Omnium said:

    Yokes said:

    Starting this in daylight is either an attempt at strategic surprise or the US and Israel are just so confident that the advantage of darkness isn't worth concerning about.

    If this is planned to go on as much as seen necessary, give it 2-3 days to see if Iran's response peters out.

    I knew those RAF ISTAR doing shuttles from Cyprus to southern Jordan and Israel last night were unusual. Absolutely no sense unless it was in the context of a shooting match coming.

    I imagine they're hoping that the people of Iran will see what's going on in daylight and on Saturday, and rise up - hopefully successfully this time. Not sure gambling with Iranian lives is wise (or moral), but we have to hope that it works.
    This is really good article as to why it would be so difficult .

    https://www.meforum.org/mef-online/survival-over-defection-why-irans-military-elites-stay-loyal
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,629
    Leon said:

    Stereodog said:

    nico67 said:

    Sandpit said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Not sure how this will bring about regime change ?

    Most people would celebrate if that did happen but it’s not just one branch that needs to pull the plug for the regime to fall.

    Well Trump has warned about likely US casualties so maybe they will do limited boots on ground to assassinate key figures
    I can’t see boots on the ground . And Iran has several branches of hideousness, not just the army but revolutionary guard who won’t be into regime change .
    Trump doesn’t want boots on the ground, because he knows that ends up with coffins draped in American flags coming back.

    He’ll happily rain Hell down from stealth bombers at 50,000 ft, because that’s of little actual risk to those who serve. Iranian air defences are all old Russian kit, useless against today’s airbourne threats.
    I still don’t see how this leads to toppling the regime . And Trump telling Iranians to take their chance , how does this happen . Unless the army side with the protesters it’s going to see thousands more deaths .
    I think it's abundantly clear that neither he nor Netanyahu seriously expect the regime to fall. They've got their excuses in early by pinning the failure on the Iranian people. They just want to destroy a load of stuff and possibly ensure that someone more compliant from the current regime comes to power and does a better deal.
    Let's wait and see

    You're probably right but yielding immediately to total pessimism is a bit premature. Maybe Trump actually does have a plan to take out the Ayatollahs. We are allowed a shred of hope
    My hope is more with the Iranian people. Regardless of what Trump is aiming to achieve events may not develop as he intends.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,964
    Looks like Iran is spraying missiles all over.
    Regional war it is. Iran now fucked utterly
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,578
    Flights into Dubai all seem to be in a holding pattern.

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,964
    Bahrain explosions reported. 5th fleet put out to sea earlier this week for precisrly this reason
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,487
    Leon said:

    If Trump takes down the Tehran regime he will be a hero for all time

    Which will be kinda awkward, given his many sins

    He'd have some way to go to get the kind of famous quote Hyde gave to Cromwell about being wicked but possessing some positive qualitities, but it'd take him part way there for many.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,579

    ydoethur said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I think Labour’s fundamental policy platform (aside from their total disinterest in planning) is fine it’s just been poorly communicated.

    A better leader might be able to sell the policies better. But I’d not want a fundamental change in approach.

    Very very true.

    The time when communicating it proerly has slipped by but what we will now start to see is many plans, projects begin th have REAL impact and then it starts to become self communicating.

    A slight 20 degree shift to the left as i proposed yesterday would optimise the benefits and bring about speedier and more relevant change, not a knee jerk left turm, more a gentle bend in the road.

    The benefit of being in Government and being the only Party able to make change really can start to pay off now.

    The Greens to out left are too extreme in many policy issues, Labour really need to tap in to the Social Care concerns of Davey, to the right Reform and various derivatives are also too extreme and Tories have very little new Policy to offer, what they offer is ill conceived and not budgeted and invariably it is Reform like and dangerously similar.

    Leadership change when it comes (not if) has to optimise the opportunity. My guess is that it may now by in June / July as opposed to the Autumn. The Tories though I suspect will be first to blink.
    Labours policy is to tax people and business to unsustainable levels. We may have to.pay but Labour will be screwed come the election
    Getting more money on benefits that working is unsustainable . Taxing business is increasing costs and results in price increases and loss of jobs.
    Don't forget this absolutely crackers MTD (Making Tax Digital) nonsense inflicted on the self-employed (I think landlords as well). A pointless waste of time for the sake of bureaucracy and enriching the third party private sector firms necessary, because for some bloody reason it's not possible to submit the pointless quarterly information to HMRC directly.
    It includes anyone who has income not from employment above the relevant threshold.

    It can be got round to some extent by registering a limited company.
    Indeed, but “to some extent” means annual returns not quarterly - you still have to use (and pay for) third party software to submit those returns. HMRC are literally turning off their in-house software that allowed you to do it fairly easy online.

    In other words, the Government now requires you to pay for the privilege of giving them money.
    That is an aspect that does seem completely nuts.

    I think it points to one of the biggest problems with the civil service in general - industry capture.
    Hang on: so even people not caught by the quarterly madness won't be able to submit their annual return via the HMRC site?

    They've removed the capacity to fill in a form on the Government website, actively making it worse while also adding the necessity of using a third party private sector firm for submitting the information?
    Yes. Got it in one.
    Hmm. This suggests otherwise (my income is currently 1 pittance):
    https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/making-tax-digital-for-income-tax-for-businesses-step-by-step

    You, or your agent if you have one, will need to use software that works with Making Tax Digital for Income Tax to: 
    create, store and correct digital records of your self-employment and property income and expenses  
    send your quarterly updates to HMRC  
    submit your tax return and pay tax due by 31 January the following year

    Who needs to sign up
    You will need to use Making Tax Digital for Income Tax if all of the following apply. You:
    are an individual registered for Self Assessment
    get income from self-employment or property, or both
    have qualifying income of more than £50,000 — read more about what qualifying income is and what is included
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,516
    Scott_xP said:

    @kaitlancollins

    Qatar has intercepted two Iranian missiles over Qatar, per an official.

    Apart from their psychotic brutality the Iranian regime suffer from a deep-rooted stupidity: 1) eschewing the opportunity for some-kind of face-saving fudge on nuclear weapons; and then 2) apparently launching attacks on their middle-east neighbours just at the point when they most need them to intervene with Israel/ USA.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,964
    Looks like Iran want to drag everyone in and go for the protracted war. Missiles now attacking Kuwait
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,587
    Sister is supposed to be going to India this morning. Looks like 2 weeks on the tarmac at Heathrow.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,265

    ydoethur said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I think Labour’s fundamental policy platform (aside from their total disinterest in planning) is fine it’s just been poorly communicated.

    A better leader might be able to sell the policies better. But I’d not want a fundamental change in approach.

    Very very true.

    The time when communicating it proerly has slipped by but what we will now start to see is many plans, projects begin th have REAL impact and then it starts to become self communicating.

    A slight 20 degree shift to the left as i proposed yesterday would optimise the benefits and bring about speedier and more relevant change, not a knee jerk left turm, more a gentle bend in the road.

    The benefit of being in Government and being the only Party able to make change really can start to pay off now.

    The Greens to out left are too extreme in many policy issues, Labour really need to tap in to the Social Care concerns of Davey, to the right Reform and various derivatives are also too extreme and Tories have very little new Policy to offer, what they offer is ill conceived and not budgeted and invariably it is Reform like and dangerously similar.

    Leadership change when it comes (not if) has to optimise the opportunity. My guess is that it may now by in June / July as opposed to the Autumn. The Tories though I suspect will be first to blink.
    Labours policy is to tax people and business to unsustainable levels. We may have to.pay but Labour will be screwed come the election
    Getting more money on benefits that working is unsustainable . Taxing business is increasing costs and results in price increases and loss of jobs.
    Don't forget this absolutely crackers MTD (Making Tax Digital) nonsense inflicted on the self-employed (I think landlords as well). A pointless waste of time for the sake of bureaucracy and enriching the third party private sector firms necessary, because for some bloody reason it's not possible to submit the pointless quarterly information to HMRC directly.
    It includes anyone who has income not from employment above the relevant threshold.

    It can be got round to some extent by registering a limited company.
    Indeed, but “to some extent” means annual returns not quarterly - you still have to use (and pay for) third party software to submit those returns. HMRC are literally turning off their in-house software that allowed you to do it fairly easy online.

    In other words, the Government now requires you to pay for the privilege of giving them money.
    That is an aspect that does seem completely nuts.

    I think it points to one of the biggest problems with the civil service in general - industry capture.
    Hang on: so even people not caught by the quarterly madness won't be able to submit their annual return via the HMRC site?

    They've removed the capacity to fill in a form on the Government website, actively making it worse while also adding the necessity of using a third party private sector firm for submitting the information?
    Yes. Got it in one.
    Hmm. This suggests otherwise (my income is currently 1 pittance):
    https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/making-tax-digital-for-income-tax-for-businesses-step-by-step

    You, or your agent if you have one, will need to use software that works with Making Tax Digital for Income Tax to: 
    create, store and correct digital records of your self-employment and property income and expenses  
    send your quarterly updates to HMRC  
    submit your tax return and pay tax due by 31 January the following year

    Who needs to sign up
    You will need to use Making Tax Digital for Income Tax if all of the following apply. You:
    are an individual registered for Self Assessment
    get income from self-employment or property, or both
    have qualifying income of more than £50,000 — read more about what qualifying income is and what is included
    I was talking about limited company returns - they’re turning off their in-house functionality to do that without third party software.

    If you have self-employed income below the MTD threshold, then I believe you can still do self-assessment on the HMRC website.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,783
    edited 9:21AM

    Leon said:

    Stereodog said:

    nico67 said:

    Sandpit said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Not sure how this will bring about regime change ?

    Most people would celebrate if that did happen but it’s not just one branch that needs to pull the plug for the regime to fall.

    Well Trump has warned about likely US casualties so maybe they will do limited boots on ground to assassinate key figures
    I can’t see boots on the ground . And Iran has several branches of hideousness, not just the army but revolutionary guard who won’t be into regime change .
    Trump doesn’t want boots on the ground, because he knows that ends up with coffins draped in American flags coming back.

    He’ll happily rain Hell down from stealth bombers at 50,000 ft, because that’s of little actual risk to those who serve. Iranian air defences are all old Russian kit, useless against today’s airbourne threats.
    I still don’t see how this leads to toppling the regime . And Trump telling Iranians to take their chance , how does this happen . Unless the army side with the protesters it’s going to see thousands more deaths .
    I think it's abundantly clear that neither he nor Netanyahu seriously expect the regime to fall. They've got their excuses in early by pinning the failure on the Iranian people. They just want to destroy a load of stuff and possibly ensure that someone more compliant from the current regime comes to power and does a better deal.
    Let's wait and see

    You're probably right but yielding immediately to total pessimism is a bit premature. Maybe Trump actually does have a plan to take out the Ayatollahs. We are allowed a shred of hope
    My hope is more with the Iranian people. Regardless of what Trump is aiming to achieve events may not develop as he intends.
    I dunno

    Who would have guessed that Trump could and WOULD successfully go into Venezuela and exfiltrate Maduro, to a New York jail, without losing a single Yankee life. It was a superb operation

    Maybe they have something planned here, alongside the Israelis (who also have a deserved reputation for great military cunning and skill). It is not beyond plausible

    I detest Trump but if he can do this, I would probably forgive him everything. It's a bit like that time it was revealed Ed Stewpot Stewart wrote Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony, which never actually happend, but when it did, it was confusing, because it never happened
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,177
    edited 9:24AM

    Looks like Iran is spraying missiles all over.
    Regional war it is. Iran now fucked utterly

    Somebody, just flatten Iran's oil export terminals.

    Game over.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,964
    Saudi base in Riyadh hit now.
    Getting messy
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,579

    ydoethur said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I think Labour’s fundamental policy platform (aside from their total disinterest in planning) is fine it’s just been poorly communicated.

    A better leader might be able to sell the policies better. But I’d not want a fundamental change in approach.

    Very very true.

    The time when communicating it proerly has slipped by but what we will now start to see is many plans, projects begin th have REAL impact and then it starts to become self communicating.

    A slight 20 degree shift to the left as i proposed yesterday would optimise the benefits and bring about speedier and more relevant change, not a knee jerk left turm, more a gentle bend in the road.

    The benefit of being in Government and being the only Party able to make change really can start to pay off now.

    The Greens to out left are too extreme in many policy issues, Labour really need to tap in to the Social Care concerns of Davey, to the right Reform and various derivatives are also too extreme and Tories have very little new Policy to offer, what they offer is ill conceived and not budgeted and invariably it is Reform like and dangerously similar.

    Leadership change when it comes (not if) has to optimise the opportunity. My guess is that it may now by in June / July as opposed to the Autumn. The Tories though I suspect will be first to blink.
    Labours policy is to tax people and business to unsustainable levels. We may have to.pay but Labour will be screwed come the election
    Getting more money on benefits that working is unsustainable . Taxing business is increasing costs and results in price increases and loss of jobs.
    Don't forget this absolutely crackers MTD (Making Tax Digital) nonsense inflicted on the self-employed (I think landlords as well). A pointless waste of time for the sake of bureaucracy and enriching the third party private sector firms necessary, because for some bloody reason it's not possible to submit the pointless quarterly information to HMRC directly.
    It includes anyone who has income not from employment above the relevant threshold.

    It can be got round to some extent by registering a limited company.
    Indeed, but “to some extent” means annual returns not quarterly - you still have to use (and pay for) third party software to submit those returns. HMRC are literally turning off their in-house software that allowed you to do it fairly easy online.

    In other words, the Government now requires you to pay for the privilege of giving them money.
    That is an aspect that does seem completely nuts.

    I think it points to one of the biggest problems with the civil service in general - industry capture.
    Hang on: so even people not caught by the quarterly madness won't be able to submit their annual return via the HMRC site?

    They've removed the capacity to fill in a form on the Government website, actively making it worse while also adding the necessity of using a third party private sector firm for submitting the information?
    Yes. Got it in one.
    Hmm. This suggests otherwise (my income is currently 1 pittance):
    https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/making-tax-digital-for-income-tax-for-businesses-step-by-step

    You, or your agent if you have one, will need to use software that works with Making Tax Digital for Income Tax to: 
    create, store and correct digital records of your self-employment and property income and expenses  
    send your quarterly updates to HMRC  
    submit your tax return and pay tax due by 31 January the following year

    Who needs to sign up
    You will need to use Making Tax Digital for Income Tax if all of the following apply. You:
    are an individual registered for Self Assessment
    get income from self-employment or property, or both
    have qualifying income of more than £50,000 — read more about what qualifying income is and what is included
    I was talking about limited company returns - they’re turning off their in-house functionality to do that without third party software.

    If you have self-employed income below the MTD threshold, then I believe you can still do self-assessment on the HMRC website.
    Cheers for the clarification.

    It remains bloody stupid that is being axed for everyone else, though.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,783

    Looks like Iran want to drag everyone in and go for the protracted war. Missiles now attacking Kuwait

    Why the F is Iran attacking all its naybs?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,709
    It's been a busy time so I am not sure if we caught up on Matt's cartoon yesterday. Here it is just in case. Genius

    https://x.com/MattCartoonist/status/2027433368703402114

  • nico67nico67 Posts: 7,066

    Looks like Iran is spraying missiles all over.
    Regional war it is. Iran now fucked utterly

    Somebody, just flatten Iran's oil export terminals.

    Game over.
    They’ll avoid those . Don’t want oil prices spiking !
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,964
    Leon said:

    Looks like Iran want to drag everyone in and go for the protracted war. Missiles now attacking Kuwait

    Why the F is Iran attacking all its naybs?
    Wider war dragging in others on both sides is its only hope i guess
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,177
    nico67 said:

    Looks like Iran is spraying missiles all over.
    Regional war it is. Iran now fucked utterly

    Somebody, just flatten Iran's oil export terminals.

    Game over.
    They’ll avoid those . Don’t want oil prices spiking !
    Saudi wil happily fill the lost production. Win-win...
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,964

    Leon said:

    Looks like Iran want to drag everyone in and go for the protracted war. Missiles now attacking Kuwait

    Why the F is Iran attacking all its naybs?
    Wider war dragging in others on both sides is its only hope i guess
    The Houthis have just launched one its paper airplanes in support for example
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,318

    Cookie said:

    Hapoy Birthday Big G - but, if you are celebrating your 82nd birthday today - might your actual d.o.b be 29th Feb? In which case you are really still 20 and the youngest on the board?

    Yes - very much so
    If that's true (I can't tell) that makes you a "leapling", which is a 1 in 1500 person. Ish.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,812

    Ratters said:

    nico67 said:

    Not sure how this will bring about regime change ?

    Most people would celebrate if that did happen but it’s not just one branch that needs to pull the plug for the regime to fall.

    Well Trump has warned about likely US casualties so maybe they will do limited boots on ground to assassinate key figures
    I was thinking this: Trump's objectives are so maximalist (destruction missiles, nuclear capabilities and regime change) that I struggle to see how it can be achieved through air attacks alone. They tried that a few months ago for the first two objectives and clearly not satisfied with the results.

    I agree with the above that removing the Iranian regime and replacement with any kind of stable alternative government would be a good thing for Iran and the world. But wars of this scale come fraught with risks and could end up making things worse.

    We can only wait and see now. It's not our war.
    Trump's stated objectives are often wildly at variance to what he is actually aiming to achieve.

    It would not surprise me to see the RAF involved in shooting down missiles heading towards Israel, so Britain is likely to be more directly involved in this war than in the Russo-Ukraine War.
    I hope not. Stay out of this is my view. What good has come out of us meddling in the affairs off that region.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,487
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Stereodog said:

    nico67 said:

    Sandpit said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Not sure how this will bring about regime change ?

    Most people would celebrate if that did happen but it’s not just one branch that needs to pull the plug for the regime to fall.

    Well Trump has warned about likely US casualties so maybe they will do limited boots on ground to assassinate key figures
    I can’t see boots on the ground . And Iran has several branches of hideousness, not just the army but revolutionary guard who won’t be into regime change .
    Trump doesn’t want boots on the ground, because he knows that ends up with coffins draped in American flags coming back.

    He’ll happily rain Hell down from stealth bombers at 50,000 ft, because that’s of little actual risk to those who serve. Iranian air defences are all old Russian kit, useless against today’s airbourne threats.
    I still don’t see how this leads to toppling the regime . And Trump telling Iranians to take their chance , how does this happen . Unless the army side with the protesters it’s going to see thousands more deaths .
    I think it's abundantly clear that neither he nor Netanyahu seriously expect the regime to fall. They've got their excuses in early by pinning the failure on the Iranian people. They just want to destroy a load of stuff and possibly ensure that someone more compliant from the current regime comes to power and does a better deal.
    Let's wait and see

    You're probably right but yielding immediately to total pessimism is a bit premature. Maybe Trump actually does have a plan to take out the Ayatollahs. We are allowed a shred of hope
    My hope is more with the Iranian people. Regardless of what Trump is aiming to achieve events may not develop as he intends.
    I dunno

    Who would have guessed that Trump could and WOULD successfully go into Venezuela and exfiltrate Maduro, to a New York jail, without losing a single Yankee life. It was a superb operation

    Maybe they have something planned here, alongside the Israelis (who also have a deserved reputation for great military cunning and skill). It is not beyond plausible

    I detest Trump but if he can do this, I would probably forgive him everything. It's a bit like that time it was revealed Ed Stewpot Stewart wrote Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony, which never actually happend, but when it did, it was confusing, because it never happened
    A snatch and grab is a very different thing surely, even if the military executed it extremely well.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,487
    Leon said:

    Looks like Iran want to drag everyone in and go for the protracted war. Missiles now attacking Kuwait

    Why the F is Iran attacking all its naybs?
    It's run out of proxies to do it for them like usual?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,604

    Not sure if allowing thousands or even tens of thousands of the brightest and bravest of Iranian protesters to be slaughtered before taking action to help Iranians wrest control from the regime is a fantastic strategy.
    That is if you believe Bibi and Donald have even an atom of genuine concern for Iranians.

    The courage that those protestors displayed was staggering. And yes, these strikes against the Iranian regime ought to have come much sooner, when they could have prompted the military to switch sides.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,964

    Ratters said:

    nico67 said:

    Not sure how this will bring about regime change ?

    Most people would celebrate if that did happen but it’s not just one branch that needs to pull the plug for the regime to fall.

    Well Trump has warned about likely US casualties so maybe they will do limited boots on ground to assassinate key figures
    I was thinking this: Trump's objectives are so maximalist (destruction missiles, nuclear capabilities and regime change) that I struggle to see how it can be achieved through air attacks alone. They tried that a few months ago for the first two objectives and clearly not satisfied with the results.

    I agree with the above that removing the Iranian regime and replacement with any kind of stable alternative government would be a good thing for Iran and the world. But wars of this scale come fraught with risks and could end up making things worse.

    We can only wait and see now. It's not our war.
    Trump's stated objectives are often wildly at variance to what he is actually aiming to achieve.

    It would not surprise me to see the RAF involved in shooting down missiles heading towards Israel, so Britain is likely to be more directly involved in this war than in the Russo-Ukraine War.
    I hope not. Stay out of this is my view. What good has come out of us meddling in the affairs off that region.
    We will already be providing recon and radar support and i think its bern confirmed the RAF will be inbolved in defensive action round Israel
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,235
    Leon said:

    Looks like Iran want to drag everyone in and go for the protracted war. Missiles now attacking Kuwait

    Why the F is Iran attacking all its naybs?
    So that if they retaliate they are aiding and fighting alongside the Zionist Entity which will cause varying amounts of internal political friction. Thus they might feel inclined to pressure DJT to stop.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,768
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Stereodog said:

    nico67 said:

    Sandpit said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Not sure how this will bring about regime change ?

    Most people would celebrate if that did happen but it’s not just one branch that needs to pull the plug for the regime to fall.

    Well Trump has warned about likely US casualties so maybe they will do limited boots on ground to assassinate key figures
    I can’t see boots on the ground . And Iran has several branches of hideousness, not just the army but revolutionary guard who won’t be into regime change .
    Trump doesn’t want boots on the ground, because he knows that ends up with coffins draped in American flags coming back.

    He’ll happily rain Hell down from stealth bombers at 50,000 ft, because that’s of little actual risk to those who serve. Iranian air defences are all old Russian kit, useless against today’s airbourne threats.
    I still don’t see how this leads to toppling the regime . And Trump telling Iranians to take their chance , how does this happen . Unless the army side with the protesters it’s going to see thousands more deaths .
    I think it's abundantly clear that neither he nor Netanyahu seriously expect the regime to fall. They've got their excuses in early by pinning the failure on the Iranian people. They just want to destroy a load of stuff and possibly ensure that someone more compliant from the current regime comes to power and does a better deal.
    Let's wait and see

    You're probably right but yielding immediately to total pessimism is a bit premature. Maybe Trump actually does have a plan to take out the Ayatollahs. We are allowed a shred of hope
    My hope is more with the Iranian people. Regardless of what Trump is aiming to achieve events may not develop as he intends.
    I dunno

    Who would have guessed that Trump could and WOULD successfully go into Venezuela and exfiltrate Maduro, to a New York jail, without losing a single Yankee life. It was a superb operation

    Maybe they have something planned here, alongside the Israelis (who also have a deserved reputation for great military cunning and skill). It is not beyond plausible

    I detest Trump but if he can do this, I would probably forgive him everything. It's a bit like that time it was revealed Ed Stewpot Stewart wrote Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony, which never actually happend, but when it did, it was confusing, because it never happened
    'I detest Trump'

    Lol, is that like you detest Putin, guardian of western civilisation and defender against Woke and the Islamics (a lesser known Genesis spin off band)?
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,284
    Leon said:

    Stereodog said:

    nico67 said:

    Sandpit said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Not sure how this will bring about regime change ?

    Most people would celebrate if that did happen but it’s not just one branch that needs to pull the plug for the regime to fall.

    Well Trump has warned about likely US casualties so maybe they will do limited boots on ground to assassinate key figures
    I can’t see boots on the ground . And Iran has several branches of hideousness, not just the army but revolutionary guard who won’t be into regime change .
    Trump doesn’t want boots on the ground, because he knows that ends up with coffins draped in American flags coming back.

    He’ll happily rain Hell down from stealth bombers at 50,000 ft, because that’s of little actual risk to those who serve. Iranian air defences are all old Russian kit, useless against today’s airbourne threats.
    I still don’t see how this leads to toppling the regime . And Trump telling Iranians to take their chance , how does this happen . Unless the army side with the protesters it’s going to see thousands more deaths .
    I think it's abundantly clear that neither he nor Netanyahu seriously expect the regime to fall. They've got their excuses in early by pinning the failure on the Iranian people. They just want to destroy a load of stuff and possibly ensure that someone more compliant from the current regime comes to power and does a better deal.
    Let's wait and see

    You're probably right but yielding immediately to total pessimism is a bit premature. Maybe Trump actually does have a plan to take out the Ayatollahs. We are allowed a shred of hope
    Fair enough about not yielding to pessimism. I in no way want to assume that the Iranian people aren't capable of overhtrowing the regime. It would just be entirely incidental to Trump's plan.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,929
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Shanghai is very pleasant in the early spring sun

    That is one place I've always wanted to visit, mainly because of its colonial history. I'd be interested to hear what you make of it.
    I'm only here one more night!

    But I've been before several times. It's a great city, probably my favourite in China, even including Hong Kong

    It has sass, spice and that splendid new skyline. The food can be great, the people are noisy and pushy - but easygoing. Live and let live. It is exceptionally safe and clean, almost like Tokyo, and the colonial architecture gives it a Victorian grandeur absent elsewhere in east Asia

    The French concession and the old British side streets are often exquisitely charming - European urbanism given Chinese vibes

    Downsides: it's numbingly big, can be rainy and humid, there's not much DEEP history - unlike Beijing or Xian etc

    Everyone should come once in a lifetime, and right now is pretty much perfect. As I mentioned last night, for a variety of confluent reasons China is insanely cheap right now. My SUITE at the Radisson Blu 5 star - in a perfect location - is costing me £70. Less than a Premier Inn near Newent. And this is true right across China. Come now!
    Thanks. My wife wants to do a China trip in September. You've helped persuade me.
    Do Beijing as well, and get the amazing high speed trains between! The history in Beijing is stupendous, the summer and winter palaces, the Forbidden City, the Great Wall nearby. It's just not as livable and charming as Shanghai. The streets are tediously wide, it's built for parades and tanks

    If you want an interior city Chengdu is fab, alternatively Yunnan is a wild subtropical region with Tibetan mountains and proper jungles. Shenzen is futuristic and from theere you can go to Guangdong and Hong Kong. You will have an amazing holiday, and the fast trains make it super easy and cheap
    When I visited Beijing it was possible (though not strictly legal) to visit one 'approved visitor centre' along the Great Wall and then walk along the wall to the next visitor centre.

    We did this in the snow, with not a soul in sight. The (oh fine, I'll say it) noom on the semi-ruined winding wall rolling off into the distance with snow all around was incredible.

    A very welcome contrast to the 'renovations' of the visitor centre, with shops built into the wall itself.

    I'm not sure you'd get away with it these days, at least not without a guide.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,604

    Scott_xP said:

    @kaitlancollins

    Qatar has intercepted two Iranian missiles over Qatar, per an official.

    Apart from their psychotic brutality the Iranian regime suffer from a deep-rooted stupidity: 1) eschewing the opportunity for some-kind of face-saving fudge on nuclear weapons; and then 2) apparently launching attacks on their middle-east neighbours just at the point when they most need them to intervene with Israel/ USA.
    The Iranian government could be making a fortune selling oil, if it gave up its nuclear programme.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,166
    Iran lashing out at everything. Whatever the US intention I don’t think a protracted regional war is in anyone’s interest - but quite clearly that is where we are headed
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,735

    ydoethur said:

    Brixian59 said:

    I think Labour’s fundamental policy platform (aside from their total disinterest in planning) is fine it’s just been poorly communicated.

    A better leader might be able to sell the policies better. But I’d not want a fundamental change in approach.

    Very very true.

    The time when communicating it proerly has slipped by but what we will now start to see is many plans, projects begin th have REAL impact and then it starts to become self communicating.

    A slight 20 degree shift to the left as i proposed yesterday would optimise the benefits and bring about speedier and more relevant change, not a knee jerk left turm, more a gentle bend in the road.

    The benefit of being in Government and being the only Party able to make change really can start to pay off now.

    The Greens to out left are too extreme in many policy issues, Labour really need to tap in to the Social Care concerns of Davey, to the right Reform and various derivatives are also too extreme and Tories have very little new Policy to offer, what they offer is ill conceived and not budgeted and invariably it is Reform like and dangerously similar.

    Leadership change when it comes (not if) has to optimise the opportunity. My guess is that it may now by in June / July as opposed to the Autumn. The Tories though I suspect will be first to blink.
    Labours policy is to tax people and business to unsustainable levels. We may have to.pay but Labour will be screwed come the election
    Getting more money on benefits that working is unsustainable . Taxing business is increasing costs and results in price increases and loss of jobs.
    Don't forget this absolutely crackers MTD (Making Tax Digital) nonsense inflicted on the self-employed (I think landlords as well). A pointless waste of time for the sake of bureaucracy and enriching the third party private sector firms necessary, because for some bloody reason it's not possible to submit the pointless quarterly information to HMRC directly.
    It includes anyone who has income not from employment above the relevant threshold.

    It can be got round to some extent by registering a limited company.
    Indeed, but “to some extent” means annual returns not quarterly - you still have to use (and pay for) third party software to submit those returns. HMRC are literally turning off their in-house software that allowed you to do it fairly easy online.

    In other words, the Government now requires you to pay for the privilege of giving them money.
    That is an aspect that does seem completely nuts.

    I think it points to one of the biggest problems with the civil service in general - industry capture.
    Hang on: so even people not caught by the quarterly madness won't be able to submit their annual return via the HMRC site?

    They've removed the capacity to fill in a form on the Government website, actively making it worse while also adding the necessity of using a third party private sector firm for submitting the information?
    Yes. Got it in one.
    Hmm. This suggests otherwise (my income is currently 1 pittance):
    https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/making-tax-digital-for-income-tax-for-businesses-step-by-step

    You, or your agent if you have one, will need to use software that works with Making Tax Digital for Income Tax to: 
    create, store and correct digital records of your self-employment and property income and expenses  
    send your quarterly updates to HMRC  
    submit your tax return and pay tax due by 31 January the following year

    Who needs to sign up
    You will need to use Making Tax Digital for Income Tax if all of the following apply. You:
    are an individual registered for Self Assessment
    get income from self-employment or property, or both
    have qualifying income of more than £50,000 — read more about what qualifying income is and what is included
    I was talking about limited company returns - they’re turning off their in-house functionality to do that without third party software.

    If you have self-employed income below the MTD threshold, then I believe you can still do self-assessment on the HMRC website.
    Cheers for the clarification.

    It remains bloody stupid that is being axed for everyone else, though.
    Two stage sucker punch.

    If you believe in shrinking the state, the power of private enterprise competition and the government not providing things unless you are retired or destitute, then of course the government shouldn't be providing tax software.

    If you are terrified of spending money because it would mean raising taxes, and anyway there are countless other spending priorities, you aren't going to reverse the decision the last government took, even if that's possible at this stage.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,163

    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    I'm still calling it all exactly as I have been for the last year or more.

    We can reach no sensible evaluations until the SKS policies have had time to bed in and start to work through, with whatever barnacles are still attached. And get to make a judgement made on how well it is working. He still has a huge majority, and I can't see any sense in him stepping down before then; he's taken the daily beastings, so he may as well see if there is an upside.

    So come back to make some evaluation in August 2026. And the Party Conference season may be the time to watch.

    Or I could be completely wrong.

    For me, for Labour to get re-elected they need to do 3 things:

    1) See a growing economy and noticeable improvement in the cost of living
    2) See noticeable improvements in public services
    3) Stop the boats

    Putting my most neutral hat on:

    1) The economy is still low growth as it was under the Tories, Lab have made some measures to bring down fuel bills but thresholds have been freezed so probably balances out.
    2) NHS waiting lists have come down somewhat but hard to know if that can be sustained with more strikes
    3) No gangs have been smashed and many on the left don't want to.

    I'm not sure what the planned government bills will do to help fix this
    I agree those 3 things are crucial. But even if they happen I doubt it would do the trick without a change of PM. Starmer seems unable to forge a connection with the public and it's hard to see that changing.
    I agree with you on Starmer, but that's the easy bit. The difficult bit is - who do we replace him with?
    I'm really struggling to find a candidate who is a) an MP, b) will unify the party, and c) is an election winner - and it needs to be all three.
    Yep totally. We have the Burnham issue and then there's an inherent potential conflict between criteria (b) and (c). Election winner probably requires a strong individual of clear definition and positioning - which doesn't really shout 'party unifier'. Eg I'm in a right old quandry. Hoping it's become a bit clearer come the time.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,287

    Looks like Iran is spraying missiles all over.
    Regional war it is. Iran now fucked utterly

    Incredible how quickly our PB armchair generals are able to brush off their chesterfields pull down their maps and keep us informed with such precise and detailed insights.
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 16,785
    Breaking news: US paratroops land in Isfahan


  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,392
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Iran want to drag everyone in and go for the protracted war. Missiles now attacking Kuwait

    Why the F is Iran attacking all its naybs?
    So that if they retaliate they are aiding and fighting alongside the Zionist Entity which will cause varying amounts of internal political friction. Thus they might feel inclined to pressure DJT to stop.
    Probably a bit of "use it or lose it" too.

    There's little love lost between Iran and the Gulf States.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,235
    Roger said:

    Looks like Iran is spraying missiles all over.
    Regional war it is. Iran now fucked utterly

    Incredible how quickly our PB armchair generals are able to brush off their chesterfields pull down their maps and keep us informed with such precise and detailed insights.
    The marble halls of pb.com are ringing to the sound of their boot heels.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,177
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Stereodog said:

    nico67 said:

    Sandpit said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Not sure how this will bring about regime change ?

    Most people would celebrate if that did happen but it’s not just one branch that needs to pull the plug for the regime to fall.

    Well Trump has warned about likely US casualties so maybe they will do limited boots on ground to assassinate key figures
    I can’t see boots on the ground . And Iran has several branches of hideousness, not just the army but revolutionary guard who won’t be into regime change .
    Trump doesn’t want boots on the ground, because he knows that ends up with coffins draped in American flags coming back.

    He’ll happily rain Hell down from stealth bombers at 50,000 ft, because that’s of little actual risk to those who serve. Iranian air defences are all old Russian kit, useless against today’s airbourne threats.
    I still don’t see how this leads to toppling the regime . And Trump telling Iranians to take their chance , how does this happen . Unless the army side with the protesters it’s going to see thousands more deaths .
    I think it's abundantly clear that neither he nor Netanyahu seriously expect the regime to fall. They've got their excuses in early by pinning the failure on the Iranian people. They just want to destroy a load of stuff and possibly ensure that someone more compliant from the current regime comes to power and does a better deal.
    Let's wait and see

    You're probably right but yielding immediately to total pessimism is a bit premature. Maybe Trump actually does have a plan to take out the Ayatollahs. We are allowed a shred of hope
    My hope is more with the Iranian people. Regardless of what Trump is aiming to achieve events may not develop as he intends.
    I detest Trump but if he can do this, I would probably forgive him everything. It's a bit like that time it was revealed Ed Stewpot Stewart wrote Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony, which never actually happend, but when it did, it was confusing, because it never happened
    Is that the Pastoral/Puff the Magic Dragon Remix?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 15,173

    Leon said:

    Donald looking well.




    Apropos of nothing, I read that the original Jaba the Hutt in Return of the Jedi was a one ton puppet operated by several puppeteers.

    He is 80 in a couple of months. Sad to say, not many men look great at 80. So I'm not sure he's particularly or uniquely unaesthetic. He's just old
    I am 82 today and know the feeling
    🎂 💝
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 15,173

    Leon said:

    Donald looking well.




    Apropos of nothing, I read that the original Jaba the Hutt in Return of the Jedi was a one ton puppet operated by several puppeteers.

    He is 80 in a couple of months. Sad to say, not many men look great at 80. So I'm not sure he's particularly or uniquely unaesthetic. He's just old
    I am 82 today and know the feeling
    🎂 💝
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