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  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 293
    edited October 2
    Reform hold in IoW and gain Brentwood from Cons.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,874
    Isle of Wight, Lake North

    RefUK 290
    Con 249
    LD 118
    Green 88
    Lab 44

    RefUK hold


    Lake North percentages

    ➡️ RefUK: 36.8% (+0.7)
    🌳 CON: 31.6% (+2.8)
    🔶 LD: 15.0% (+4.4)
    🌍 GReen: 11.2% (-0.9)
    🌹 LAB: 5.6% (-0.2)

    No Ind (-6.8) as previous.

    Reform HOLD.
    Changes w/ 2025.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,232
    Ref hold in Isle of Wight and Ref gain in Brentwood.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,874
    Changes in Brentwood

    Ref +45.79% from nowhere
    Con -14.47%
    Lab -14.52%
    LD -9.58%
    Grn -7.23%
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,096
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    I see the DT is blaming Starmer for the attack . Absolutely pathetic .

    It is darkly amusing to see that a man with a Jewish wife is being accused of stoking antisemitsm, nearly as 'amusing' that people are saying that Nigel Farage is best placed to deal with antisemitism, given in the past he has been criticised by Jewish organisations for repeating antisemitic tropes.
    The DT is quoting an Israeli official who is the one doing the blaming not the newspaper:


    "As news of the outrage spread, Gideon Sa’ar, the Israeli foreign affairs minister, issued a scathing statement blaming the British Government for allowing anti-Jewish hatred to take hold and flourish."
    To be blunt . Netanyahu has acted as a recruiting sergeant for anti-Semitism . Things don’t happen in a vacuum . It’s a tragic irony that those killed on October 7 were most likely to be pro peace and more sympathetic to a two state solution and Jews around the world are now being targeted in response to the actions of Netanyahu and the IDF . The UK won’t be lectured by anyone in that cesspit cabinet who have overseen a genocide and now seek to deflect by accusing others of exactly what they’ve caused .
    Hamas' antisemitism has existed long BEFORE October 7th.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,776
    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,776
    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    Farage is a traitor. I'll take the abyss
    How is he a traitor?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,627
    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    Farage is a traitor. I'll take the abyss
    Farage is the abyss.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,874
    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    Farage is a traitor. I'll take the abyss
    In what sense is he a traitor? Please explain.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,776

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    Farage is a traitor. I'll take the abyss
    Farage is the abyss.
    lol

    You live in Trumpland. Is your life falling apart? Get a grip you pitiful bleating no-mark
  • TresTres Posts: 3,102
    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    Farage is a traitor. I'll take the abyss
    How is he a traitor?
    he's peas in a pod with Putin and Trump, funded by god knows who
  • isamisam Posts: 42,757
    edited October 2
    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    It strikes me that a Reform govt could bring about some kind of civil war… his opponents hate Farage so much, and those to the right of him are clucking for aggro… he must have a good chance of being assassinated if he becomes PM. But the alternative is the continued slow destruction of what we thought of as England, and eventual Islamic takeover.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,776
    Andy_JS said:

    Changes in Brentwood

    Ref +45.79% from nowhere
    Con -14.47%
    Lab -14.52%
    LD -9.58%
    Grn -7.23%

    That’s an extraordinary result

    If this continues Reform are going to sweep the board next May, destroying all others. And Farage is a cert for number 10
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,874
    edited October 2
    Farage is left-wing compared to Trump, He, Farage, is firmly against capital punishment for instance. He also supports the existence of a national health service.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,627
    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    Farage is a traitor. I'll take the abyss
    Farage is the abyss.
    lol

    You live in Trumpland. Is your life falling apart? Get a grip you pitiful bleating no-mark
    Better a no-mark than a skid-mark, perhaps.
    You ranting old roué.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,768
    Labour hold Strawberry.
    A delightful name for a roundabout near Ellesmere Port.
    Only 32% swing to Reform.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,505
    edited October 2

    Some election date has emerged:

    Election Maps UK
    @ElectionMapsUK
    Hutton South (Brentwood) Council By-Election Result:

    ➡️ RFM: 45.8% (New)
    🌳 CON: 30.9% (-14.5)
    🌹 LAB: 13.3% (-14.5)
    🔶 LDM: 6.2% (-9.6)
    🌍 GRN: 3.8% (-7.2)

    Reform GAIN from Conservative.
    Changes w/ 2024.

    Looks like Reform gained from everyone but particularly the Conservatives and Labour. Used to be a safe Tory seat and further sign of the Reform surge despite a good local former councillor Tory candidate.

    Reform won by 15% over the Conservatives but Labour and the LDs combined got 19%. Had more of them tactically voted Tory it could have been closer.

    Conservative candidates in Conservative held seats where Reform are the main challengers need to squeeze Labour and LD votes to beat Reform. Unfortunately Kemi is putting them off at present, Cleverly might not
  • Blimey, some rumblings in Ellesmere Port

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ✅ Labour HOLD

    Strawberry (Cheshire West and Chester) council by-election result:

    LAB: 35.8% (-32.9)
    REF: 32.0% (+32.0)
    IND: 13.7% (+13.7)
    CON: 7.8% (-16.8)
    LDEM: 7.2% (+0.5)
    GRN: 3.4% (+3.4)

    +/- 2023

    Estimated turnout: ~41% (+7)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,768
    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    It strikes me that a Reform govt could bring about some kind of civil war… his opponents hate Farage so much, and those to the right of him are clucking for aggro… he must have a good chance of being assassinated if he becomes PM. But the alternative is the continued slow destruction of what we thought of as England, and eventual Islamic takeover.
    Eventual Islamic takeover?
    Are you for real?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,776
    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    It strikes me that a Reform govt could bring about some kind of civil war… his opponents hate Farage so much, and those to the right of him are clucking for aggro… he must have a good chance of being assassinated if he becomes PM. But the alternative is the continued slow destruction of what we thought of as England, and eventual Islamic takeover.
    Yes, the choice is becoming quite stark

    Again - I hate to repeat myself - this is Betz’s thesis. The state dissolves into sectarian sniping and two tier justice (already happening). People are forced to take sides who would really rather not. These sides become evermore polarised until they violently attack each other

    So you end up with quite reasonable people taking up arms

    I know which side I worth choose if the dread moment comes (inshallah it doesn’t). And it ain’t the Islamists and Corbynists
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,627
    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    It strikes me that a Reform govt could bring about some kind of civil war… his opponents hate Farage so much, and those to the right of him are clucking for aggro… he must have a good chance of being assassinated if he becomes PM. But the alternative is the continued slow destruction of what we thought of as England, and eventual Islamic takeover.
    Eventual Islamic takeover?
    You utter loon.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,874
    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    It strikes me that a Reform govt could bring about some kind of civil war… his opponents hate Farage so much, and those to the right of him are clucking for aggro… he must have a good chance of being assassinated if he becomes PM. But the alternative is the continued slow destruction of what we thought of as England, and eventual Islamic takeover.
    Right now millions of us are peacefully putting up with Starmer's government even though we don't like it, so if Farage wins an election fair and square it's only right that the left does the same even if they don't agree with his policies.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,776

    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    Farage is a traitor. I'll take the abyss
    Farage is the abyss.
    lol

    You live in Trumpland. Is your life falling apart? Get a grip you pitiful bleating no-mark
    Better a no-mark than a skid-mark, perhaps.
    You ranting old roué.
    No one cares what you think, what you do, what you say. You’re some pitiful wandering mediocre middle manager in marketing who doesn’t even live in the UK

    Why don’t you grow up and join an American politics site? That’s where you live. Because your views on here on the UK are increasingly irrelevant, clueless and awkwardly uninformed. So much so they become embarrassing
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,432

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    It strikes me that a Reform govt could bring about some kind of civil war… his opponents hate Farage so much, and those to the right of him are clucking for aggro… he must have a good chance of being assassinated if he becomes PM. But the alternative is the continued slow destruction of what we thought of as England, and eventual Islamic takeover.
    Eventual Islamic takeover?
    You utter loon.
    I've found it mildly interesting that the US crazy social media of "Going to be a civil war" has faded - but now transferred to the UK. Possibly Elon's work.

    We could barely be arsed having a civil war back when we had a civil war. Never mind now when there's netflix and deliveroo.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,341
    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    It strikes me that a Reform govt could bring about some kind of civil war… his opponents hate Farage so much, and those to the right of him are clucking for aggro… he must have a good chance of being assassinated if he becomes PM. But the alternative is the continued slow destruction of what we thought of as England, and eventual Islamic takeover.
    Right now millions of us are peacefully putting up with Starmer's government even though we don't like it, so if Farage wins an election fair and square it's only right that the left does the same even if they don't agree with his policies.
    The Community Charge riots suggest otherwise.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,776

    Blimey, some rumblings in Ellesmere Port

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ✅ Labour HOLD

    Strawberry (Cheshire West and Chester) council by-election result:

    LAB: 35.8% (-32.9)
    REF: 32.0% (+32.0)
    IND: 13.7% (+13.7)
    CON: 7.8% (-16.8)
    LDEM: 7.2% (+0.5)
    GRN: 3.4% (+3.4)

    +/- 2023

    Estimated turnout: ~41% (+7)

    That’s a striking turnout. Local factors?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,768

    Blimey, some rumblings in Ellesmere Port

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ✅ Labour HOLD

    Strawberry (Cheshire West and Chester) council by-election result:

    LAB: 35.8% (-32.9)
    REF: 32.0% (+32.0)
    IND: 13.7% (+13.7)
    CON: 7.8% (-16.8)
    LDEM: 7.2% (+0.5)
    GRN: 3.4% (+3.4)

    +/- 2023

    Estimated turnout: ~41% (+7)

    That's a big turnout.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,820
    edited October 2
    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    It strikes me that a Reform govt could bring about some kind of civil war… his opponents hate Farage so much, and those to the right of him are clucking for aggro… he must have a good chance of being assassinated if he becomes PM. But the alternative is the continued slow destruction of what we thought of as England, and eventual Islamic takeover.
    Yes, the choice is becoming quite stark

    Again - I hate to repeat myself - this is Betz’s thesis. The state dissolves into sectarian sniping and two tier justice (already happening). People are forced to take sides who would really rather not. These sides become evermore polarised until they violently attack each other

    So you end up with quite reasonable people taking up arms

    I know which side I worth choose if the dread moment comes (inshallah it doesn’t). And it ain’t the Islamists and Corbynists
    But Betz is an Orbanite who thus supports the gradual dismantling of democracy. The choice he presents is between Christian Totalitarianism and Islamic Totalitarianism, much like some of Trump's most hardcore supporters.

    Both are now to be avoided.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,874
    edited October 2
    Leon said:

    Blimey, some rumblings in Ellesmere Port

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ✅ Labour HOLD

    Strawberry (Cheshire West and Chester) council by-election result:

    LAB: 35.8% (-32.9)
    REF: 32.0% (+32.0)
    IND: 13.7% (+13.7)
    CON: 7.8% (-16.8)
    LDEM: 7.2% (+0.5)
    GRN: 3.4% (+3.4)

    +/- 2023

    Estimated turnout: ~41% (+7)

    That’s a striking turnout. Local factors?
    The New Statesmen's election expert Ben Walker was campaiging here, which happens to be his local area. Maybe he can fill in the details later on. Do Spectator and New Statesman journalists ever meet up for drinks with each other? That question just popped into my head for some reason.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,494
    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    It strikes me that a Reform govt could bring about some kind of civil war… his opponents hate Farage so much, and those to the right of him are clucking for aggro… he must have a good chance of being assassinated if he becomes PM. But the alternative is the continued slow destruction of what we thought of as England, and eventual Islamic takeover.
    Farage's opponents may see him as smug little git, but I doubt any of the non-psychotic ones would actually want to murder him. Disappointment will be his biggest problem - in these febrile and impatient times his honeymoon period will probably make Sir Keir's look like Mesozoic Era.
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,986
    edited October 2
    Leon said:

    Blimey, some rumblings in Ellesmere Port

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ✅ Labour HOLD

    Strawberry (Cheshire West and Chester) council by-election result:

    LAB: 35.8% (-32.9)
    REF: 32.0% (+32.0)
    IND: 13.7% (+13.7)
    CON: 7.8% (-16.8)
    LDEM: 7.2% (+0.5)
    GRN: 3.4% (+3.4)

    +/- 2023

    Estimated turnout: ~41% (+7)

    That’s a striking turnout. Local factors?
    I saw some polling earlier that suggested Reform had overtaken Lab in Liverpool, Wirral and other wool areas like The Port. And here we are.

    If they've lost the Scousers and the Wools they're toast.

    No idea if its motivating national factors or local here, tbh.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,874

    Leon said:

    Blimey, some rumblings in Ellesmere Port

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ✅ Labour HOLD

    Strawberry (Cheshire West and Chester) council by-election result:

    LAB: 35.8% (-32.9)
    REF: 32.0% (+32.0)
    IND: 13.7% (+13.7)
    CON: 7.8% (-16.8)
    LDEM: 7.2% (+0.5)
    GRN: 3.4% (+3.4)

    +/- 2023

    Estimated turnout: ~41% (+7)

    That’s a striking turnout. Local factors?
    I saw some polling earlier that suggested Reform had overtaken Lab in Liverpool, Wirral and other wool areas like The Port. And here we are.

    If they've lost the Scousers and the Wools they're toast.

    No idea if its motivating national factors or local here, tbh.
    Can you post a link to the Liverpool polling? Thanks in advance.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,776
    wtf

    These pro Palestinians are not protesting they are celebrating


    “Pro-Palestinian protesters clash with police near Downing Street after synagogue attack

    We don’t care about the Jewish community, says campaigner hours after two worshippers killed in Manchester”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/10/02/police-allow-pro-palestine-protest-terror-attack-trains/
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,874
    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    It strikes me that a Reform govt could bring about some kind of civil war… his opponents hate Farage so much, and those to the right of him are clucking for aggro… he must have a good chance of being assassinated if he becomes PM. But the alternative is the continued slow destruction of what we thought of as England, and eventual Islamic takeover.
    Yes, the choice is becoming quite stark

    Again - I hate to repeat myself - this is Betz’s thesis. The state dissolves into sectarian sniping and two tier justice (already happening). People are forced to take sides who would really rather not. These sides become evermore polarised until they violently attack each other

    So you end up with quite reasonable people taking up arms

    I know which side I worth choose if the dread moment comes (inshallah it doesn’t). And it ain’t the Islamists and Corbynists
    And it was all totally unnecessary if they'd defended the borders starting 20 years ago.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,757
    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    It strikes me that a Reform govt could bring about some kind of civil war… his opponents hate Farage so much, and those to the right of him are clucking for aggro… he must have a good chance of being assassinated if he becomes PM. But the alternative is the continued slow destruction of what we thought of as England, and eventual Islamic takeover.
    Right now millions of us are peacefully putting up with Starmer's government even though we don't like it, so if Farage wins an election fair and square it's only right that the left does the same even if they don't agree with his policies.
    Farage is much more divisive than Starmer though, and look how Remainers refused to accept they lost the referendum.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,874
    dixiedean said:

    Labour hold Strawberry.
    A delightful name for a roundabout near Ellesmere Port.
    Only 32% swing to Reform.

    Labour may have been saved by the fact that this is apparently one of the poshest parts of Ellesmere Port, because they tend to do better in middle-class areas these days.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,232
    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    It strikes me that a Reform govt could bring about some kind of civil war… his opponents hate Farage so much, and those to the right of him are clucking for aggro… he must have a good chance of being assassinated if he becomes PM. But the alternative is the continued slow destruction of what we thought of as England, and eventual Islamic takeover.
    Yes, the choice is becoming quite stark

    Again - I hate to repeat myself - this is Betz’s thesis. The state dissolves into sectarian sniping and two tier justice (already happening). People are forced to take sides who would really rather not. These sides become evermore polarised until they violently attack each other

    So you end up with quite reasonable people taking up arms

    I know which side I worth choose if the dread moment comes (inshallah it doesn’t). And it ain’t the Islamists and Corbynists
    The UK is following the USA down a path prepared by the old and new media towards a form of Fascism with 21st century technology. Instead of Jews the enemy is Islam. I have no sympathy with this archaic and false religion but its adherents are their own worst enemy. Religion of peace? It was always delivered by the sword. I know which side I am on.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,820
    edited October 2
    If the U.K., like all northwest European countries, didn't take the side of secular democracy against any form of religious fascism, be it Christian, Islamic, Jewish or Buddhist, at some point in the future, it wouldn't survive as a nation, and it would be a different one from what it is.

    There are too many secular people.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Blimey, some rumblings in Ellesmere Port

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ✅ Labour HOLD

    Strawberry (Cheshire West and Chester) council by-election result:

    LAB: 35.8% (-32.9)
    REF: 32.0% (+32.0)
    IND: 13.7% (+13.7)
    CON: 7.8% (-16.8)
    LDEM: 7.2% (+0.5)
    GRN: 3.4% (+3.4)

    +/- 2023

    Estimated turnout: ~41% (+7)

    That’s a striking turnout. Local factors?
    I saw some polling earlier that suggested Reform had overtaken Lab in Liverpool, Wirral and other wool areas like The Port. And here we are.

    If they've lost the Scousers and the Wools they're toast.

    No idea if its motivating national factors or local here, tbh.
    Can you post a link to the Liverpool polling? Thanks in advance.
    Looking for it now, it was a polling tracker I scrolled past.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,768
    isam said:

    dixiedean said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    It strikes me that a Reform govt could bring about some kind of civil war… his opponents hate Farage so much, and those to the right of him are clucking for aggro… he must have a good chance of being assassinated if he becomes PM. But the alternative is the continued slow destruction of what we thought of as England, and eventual Islamic takeover.
    Eventual Islamic takeover?
    Are you for real?

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    It strikes me that a Reform govt could bring about some kind of civil war… his opponents hate Farage so much, and those to the right of him are clucking for aggro… he must have a good chance of being assassinated if he becomes PM. But the alternative is the continued slow destruction of what we thought of as England, and eventual Islamic takeover.
    Eventual Islamic takeover?
    You utter loon.
    Why wouldn’t it happen? The Islamic population is growing faster than any other, they are already winning seats in parliament on a sectarian manifesto. The trend is there, they are motivated, only a fool would ignore or dismiss it.
    Because it's 6% of the population.
    That's like saying you're scared of the inevitability of left handed females taking over.
    Not one of the handful of MPs won on a sectarian manifesto. Because they wouldn't have won. They all built a coalition based around the Muslim vote. But tried their damnedest to win over others. Or else they'd have lost.
    Not a single one said vote for me. We're sectarian.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,874

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Blimey, some rumblings in Ellesmere Port

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ✅ Labour HOLD

    Strawberry (Cheshire West and Chester) council by-election result:

    LAB: 35.8% (-32.9)
    REF: 32.0% (+32.0)
    IND: 13.7% (+13.7)
    CON: 7.8% (-16.8)
    LDEM: 7.2% (+0.5)
    GRN: 3.4% (+3.4)

    +/- 2023

    Estimated turnout: ~41% (+7)

    That’s a striking turnout. Local factors?
    I saw some polling earlier that suggested Reform had overtaken Lab in Liverpool, Wirral and other wool areas like The Port. And here we are.

    If they've lost the Scousers and the Wools they're toast.

    No idea if its motivating national factors or local here, tbh.
    Can you post a link to the Liverpool polling? Thanks in advance.
    Looking for it now, it was a polling tracker I scrolled past.
    Okay, ta.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,768
    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    It strikes me that a Reform govt could bring about some kind of civil war… his opponents hate Farage so much, and those to the right of him are clucking for aggro… he must have a good chance of being assassinated if he becomes PM. But the alternative is the continued slow destruction of what we thought of as England, and eventual Islamic takeover.
    Right now millions of us are peacefully putting up with Starmer's government even though we don't like it, so if Farage wins an election fair and square it's only right that the left does the same even if they don't agree with his policies.
    Farage is much more divisive than Starmer though, and look how Remainers refused to accept they lost the referendum.
    Whereas Starmer winning a huge majority has been accepted with equanimity and grace.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,096

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    It strikes me that a Reform govt could bring about some kind of civil war… his opponents hate Farage so much, and those to the right of him are clucking for aggro… he must have a good chance of being assassinated if he becomes PM. But the alternative is the continued slow destruction of what we thought of as England, and eventual Islamic takeover.
    Yes, the choice is becoming quite stark

    Again - I hate to repeat myself - this is Betz’s thesis. The state dissolves into sectarian sniping and two tier justice (already happening). People are forced to take sides who would really rather not. These sides become evermore polarised until they violently attack each other

    So you end up with quite reasonable people taking up arms

    I know which side I worth choose if the dread moment comes (inshallah it doesn’t). And it ain’t the Islamists and Corbynists
    But Betz is an Orbanite who thus supports the gradual dismantling of democracy. The choice he presents is between Christian Totalitarianism and Islamic Totalitarianism, much like some of Trump's most hardcore supporters.

    Both are now to be avoided.

    All Betz are off?
  • isamisam Posts: 42,757
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Changes in Brentwood

    Ref +45.79% from nowhere
    Con -14.47%
    Lab -14.52%
    LD -9.58%
    Grn -7.23%

    That’s an extraordinary result

    If this continues Reform are going to sweep the board next May, destroying all others. And Farage is a cert for number 10
    I live just around the corner from Hutton; there aren’t many people round here that I know who aren’t pretty Reformy. I’d say I was way to the left of most of them
  • Lisa Nandy had better start looking for a chicken run:

    Election Maps UK
    @ElectionMapsUK
    ·
    33s
    Wigan Central (Wigan) Council By-Election Result:

    ➡️ RFM: 47.2% (New)
    🌹 LAB: 32.9% (-15.3)
    🙋 Ind: 6.7% (New)
    🌳 CON: 5.1% (-9.4)
    🌍 GRN: 4.4% (-2.1)
    🔶 LDM: 3.7% (+0.2)

    No Ind (-20.6) as previous.

    Reform GAIN from Labour.
    Changes w/ 2024.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,757
    dixiedean said:

    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    It strikes me that a Reform govt could bring about some kind of civil war… his opponents hate Farage so much, and those to the right of him are clucking for aggro… he must have a good chance of being assassinated if he becomes PM. But the alternative is the continued slow destruction of what we thought of as England, and eventual Islamic takeover.
    Right now millions of us are peacefully putting up with Starmer's government even though we don't like it, so if Farage wins an election fair and square it's only right that the left does the same even if they don't agree with his policies.
    Farage is much more divisive than Starmer though, and look how Remainers refused to accept they lost the referendum.
    Whereas Starmer winning a huge majority has been accepted with equanimity and grace.
    I don’t see anyone demanding another election or refusing to accept he has a mandate
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,627
    isam said:

    dixiedean said:

    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    It strikes me that a Reform govt could bring about some kind of civil war… his opponents hate Farage so much, and those to the right of him are clucking for aggro… he must have a good chance of being assassinated if he becomes PM. But the alternative is the continued slow destruction of what we thought of as England, and eventual Islamic takeover.
    Right now millions of us are peacefully putting up with Starmer's government even though we don't like it, so if Farage wins an election fair and square it's only right that the left does the same even if they don't agree with his policies.
    Farage is much more divisive than Starmer though, and look how Remainers refused to accept they lost the referendum.
    Whereas Starmer winning a huge majority has been accepted with equanimity and grace.
    I don’t see anyone demanding another election or refusing to accept he has a mandate
    Leon calls for him to stand down every day with a “y” in it.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,757
    dixiedean said:

    isam said:

    dixiedean said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    It strikes me that a Reform govt could bring about some kind of civil war… his opponents hate Farage so much, and those to the right of him are clucking for aggro… he must have a good chance of being assassinated if he becomes PM. But the alternative is the continued slow destruction of what we thought of as England, and eventual Islamic takeover.
    Eventual Islamic takeover?
    Are you for real?

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    It strikes me that a Reform govt could bring about some kind of civil war… his opponents hate Farage so much, and those to the right of him are clucking for aggro… he must have a good chance of being assassinated if he becomes PM. But the alternative is the continued slow destruction of what we thought of as England, and eventual Islamic takeover.
    Eventual Islamic takeover?
    You utter loon.
    Why wouldn’t it happen? The Islamic population is growing faster than any other, they are already winning seats in parliament on a sectarian manifesto. The trend is there, they are motivated, only a fool would ignore or dismiss it.
    Because it's 6% of the population.
    That's like saying you're scared of the inevitability of left handed females taking over.
    Not one of the handful of MPs won on a sectarian manifesto. Because they wouldn't have won. They all built a coalition based around the Muslim vote. But tried their damnedest to win over others. Or else they'd have lost.
    Not a single one said vote for me. We're sectarian.
    Yes, and it was 4%, and it was 2%, and it was 1%

    It’s not like saying I’m scared of left handed females taking over, not that I said I was scared of Muslims taking over, because left handed females aren’t increasing as a percentage of the population the way Muslims are, and aren’t concentrated in areas where they can win seats in parliament on the basis of their left handed female-ness
  • isamisam Posts: 42,757
    edited October 2
    dixiedean said:

    isam said:

    dixiedean said:

    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    It strikes me that a Reform govt could bring about some kind of civil war… his opponents hate Farage so much, and those to the right of him are clucking for aggro… he must have a good chance of being assassinated if he becomes PM. But the alternative is the continued slow destruction of what we thought of as England, and eventual Islamic takeover.
    Right now millions of us are peacefully putting up with Starmer's government even though we don't like it, so if Farage wins an election fair and square it's only right that the left does the same even if they don't agree with his policies.
    Farage is much more divisive than Starmer though, and look how Remainers refused to accept they lost the referendum.
    Whereas Starmer winning a huge majority has been accepted with equanimity and grace.
    I don’t see anyone demanding another election or refusing to accept he has a mandate
    Have you ever been Online?
    Quite often, but remain had MPs refusing to accept the result, and organising demos to help ensure it was never enacted. I realise this is a futile conversation but that’s just not happening with Starmer as PM
  • isamisam Posts: 42,757

    isam said:

    dixiedean said:

    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    It strikes me that a Reform govt could bring about some kind of civil war… his opponents hate Farage so much, and those to the right of him are clucking for aggro… he must have a good chance of being assassinated if he becomes PM. But the alternative is the continued slow destruction of what we thought of as England, and eventual Islamic takeover.
    Right now millions of us are peacefully putting up with Starmer's government even though we don't like it, so if Farage wins an election fair and square it's only right that the left does the same even if they don't agree with his policies.
    Farage is much more divisive than Starmer though, and look how Remainers refused to accept they lost the referendum.
    Whereas Starmer winning a huge majority has been accepted with equanimity and grace.
    I don’t see anyone demanding another election or refusing to accept he has a mandate
    Leon calls for him to stand down every day with a “y” in it.
    That’s different to refusing to accept he is PM, which is equivalent to what Remainers did when Leave won the referendum
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,730
    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    Farage is a traitor. I'll take the abyss
    How is he a traitor?
    He says he admires Putin and he made Nathan Gill leader of Reform in Wales. Nathan Gill last week confirmed he took dirty Russian cash to ask questions on behalf of Russia in the European Parliament. I could go on...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,874

    Lisa Nandy had better start looking for a chicken run:

    Election Maps UK
    @ElectionMapsUK
    ·
    33s
    Wigan Central (Wigan) Council By-Election Result:

    ➡️ RFM: 47.2% (New)
    🌹 LAB: 32.9% (-15.3)
    🙋 Ind: 6.7% (New)
    🌳 CON: 5.1% (-9.4)
    🌍 GRN: 4.4% (-2.1)
    🔶 LDM: 3.7% (+0.2)

    No Ind (-20.6) as previous.

    Reform GAIN from Labour.
    Changes w/ 2024.

    This is probably one of Labour's better areas in Wigan.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,874
    It's possible Starmer might call it a day after the Caerphilly by-election if Labour come third behind Ref and PC.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,627
    isam said:

    dixiedean said:

    isam said:

    dixiedean said:

    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    It strikes me that a Reform govt could bring about some kind of civil war… his opponents hate Farage so much, and those to the right of him are clucking for aggro… he must have a good chance of being assassinated if he becomes PM. But the alternative is the continued slow destruction of what we thought of as England, and eventual Islamic takeover.
    Right now millions of us are peacefully putting up with Starmer's government even though we don't like it, so if Farage wins an election fair and square it's only right that the left does the same even if they don't agree with his policies.
    Farage is much more divisive than Starmer though, and look how Remainers refused to accept they lost the referendum.
    Whereas Starmer winning a huge majority has been accepted with equanimity and grace.
    I don’t see anyone demanding another election or refusing to accept he has a mandate
    Have you ever been Online?
    Quite often, but remain had MPs blocking the result, and organised demos to help ensure it was never enacted. I realise this is a futile conversation but that’s just not happening with Starmer as PM
    What’s Remain got to do with the Muslim population?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,998

    dixiedean said:

    Why is @Big_G_NorthWales ranting about Antifa now?
    He needs to get off Guido or whatever alt-right nut-shop he’s frequenting.

    Hope to God he isn't pronouncing it anTEEfa like Farage.
    That's worthy of the banhammer.
    How is it supposed to be pronounced? I’ve literally no clue.
    Ban. Hammer.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,505

    If the U.K., like all northwest European countries, didn't take the side of secular democracy against any form of religious fascism, be it Christian, Islamic, Jewish or Buddhist, at some point in the future, it wouldn't survive as a nation, and it would be a different one from what it is.

    There are too many secular people.

    We are nations of Christian heritage, secular democracy alone is just a recipe for falling birthrates and weakness in defence of western culture and heritage. Leaving Islam to fill the gap longer term
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,627
    isam said:

    isam said:

    dixiedean said:

    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    It strikes me that a Reform govt could bring about some kind of civil war… his opponents hate Farage so much, and those to the right of him are clucking for aggro… he must have a good chance of being assassinated if he becomes PM. But the alternative is the continued slow destruction of what we thought of as England, and eventual Islamic takeover.
    Right now millions of us are peacefully putting up with Starmer's government even though we don't like it, so if Farage wins an election fair and square it's only right that the left does the same even if they don't agree with his policies.
    Farage is much more divisive than Starmer though, and look how Remainers refused to accept they lost the referendum.
    Whereas Starmer winning a huge majority has been accepted with equanimity and grace.
    I don’t see anyone demanding another election or refusing to accept he has a mandate
    Leon calls for him to stand down every day with a “y” in it.
    That’s different to refusing to accept he is PM, which is equivalent to what Remainers did when Leave won the referendum
    Remainers did nothing of the sort.
    Absolute shit-wittery.

    Whereas, Boris did attempt to shut down parliament to prevent MPs voting to avoid a hard Brexit, an act later ruled illegal.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,768
    Andy_JS said:

    Lisa Nandy had better start looking for a chicken run:

    Election Maps UK
    @ElectionMapsUK
    ·
    33s
    Wigan Central (Wigan) Council By-Election Result:

    ➡️ RFM: 47.2% (New)
    🌹 LAB: 32.9% (-15.3)
    🙋 Ind: 6.7% (New)
    🌳 CON: 5.1% (-9.4)
    🌍 GRN: 4.4% (-2.1)
    🔶 LDM: 3.7% (+0.2)

    No Ind (-20.6) as previous.

    Reform GAIN from Labour.
    Changes w/ 2024.

    This is probably one of Labour's better areas in Wigan.
    How so?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,776
    edited October 2

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    Farage is a traitor. I'll take the abyss
    Farage is the abyss.
    lol

    You live in Trumpland. Is your life falling apart? Get a grip you pitiful bleating no-mark
    Better a no-mark than a skid-mark, perhaps.
    You ranting old roué.
    No one cares what you think, what you do, what you say. You’re some pitiful wandering mediocre middle manager in marketing who doesn’t even live in the UK

    Why don’t you grow up and join an American politics site? That’s where you live. Because your views on here on the UK are increasingly irrelevant, clueless and awkwardly uninformed. So much so they become embarrassing
    Perhaps. Though at least I don’t spam the site with fascist drivel and tasteless interior design content, like some kind of Laurence Llewellyn Bormann.
    That’s quite good. That’s definitely the aesthetic I’m aiming for - d’Annunzio with a hint of self conscious jazz. Plus glass. I may steal

    The rest of your commentary, I’m afraid, is utterly redundant. You honestly don’t know what you’re talking about any more and it’s gone from oblique to just random and quite cringe

    Consider moving on. Find a place for middle manager marketeers to comment on Trump
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,505
    Andy_JS said:

    Farage is left-wing compared to Trump, He, Farage, is firmly against capital punishment for instance. He also supports the existence of a national health service.

    Farage is on record as wanting a more insurance based healthcare and he wants to send dangerous criminals to El Salvador
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,998
    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    Farage is a traitor. I'll take the abyss
    How is he a traitor?
    His loyalty is to the Anglosphere generally and to the United States specifically. He repeats US talking points like "paracetamol causes autism" or "Antifa" uncritically. I don't think his loyalty is to the UK specifically, and his knowledge of it is limited to cliches like WW2 and the Battle of Britain. He lives online and has forgotten about the land on which he stands, which is convenient because he frequently isn't in the UK.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,730
    HYUFD said:

    If the U.K., like all northwest European countries, didn't take the side of secular democracy against any form of religious fascism, be it Christian, Islamic, Jewish or Buddhist, at some point in the future, it wouldn't survive as a nation, and it would be a different one from what it is.

    There are too many secular people.

    We are nations of Christian heritage, secular democracy alone is just a recipe for falling birthrates and weakness in defence of western culture and heritage. Leaving Islam to fill the gap longer term
    I'd prefer to keep our democracy secular. No offence to Christians or Muslims.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,505
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Changes in Brentwood

    Ref +45.79% from nowhere
    Con -14.47%
    Lab -14.52%
    LD -9.58%
    Grn -7.23%

    That’s an extraordinary result

    If this continues Reform are going to sweep the board next May, destroying all others. And Farage is a cert for number 10
    Albeit a poll from MiC last weekend had a Burnham led Labour 2% ahead of Reform while Starmer led Labour were 3% behind Reform.

    Farage will also face heavy tactical voting against him like Poilievre did in Canada
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,627
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Farage is left-wing compared to Trump, He, Farage, is firmly against capital punishment for instance. He also supports the existence of a national health service.

    Farage is on record as wanting a more insurance based healthcare and he wants to send dangerous criminals to El Salvador
    He’s also come out against “antifa” and promoted anti-vax conspiracy theories at his conference.

    He really knows what resonates with the patriotic British voter.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,820
    HYUFD said:

    If the U.K., like all northwest European countries, didn't take the side of secular democracy against any form of religious fascism, be it Christian, Islamic, Jewish or Buddhist, at some point in the future, it wouldn't survive as a nation, and it would be a different one from what it is.

    There are too many secular people.

    We are nations of Christian heritage, secular democracy alone is just a recipe for falling birthrates and weakness in defence of western culture and heritage. Leaving Islam to fill the gap longer term
    But there wouldn't be enough committed Christians to secure the country against any other form of religion.

    I am in some ways more spiritual thsn secularist, but mass secularism is Britain's defence against both Trumpism and islamism.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,627
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    Farage is a traitor. I'll take the abyss
    How is he a traitor?
    His loyalty is to the Anglosphere generally and to the United States specifically. He repeats US talking points like "paracetamol causes autism" or "Antifa" uncritically. I don't think his loyalty is to the UK specifically, and his knowledge of it is limited to cliches like WW2 and the Battle of Britain. He lives online and has forgotten about the land on which he stands, which is convenient because he frequently isn't in the UK.
    Since when is Russia part of the “Anglosphere”?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,730
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    Farage is a traitor. I'll take the abyss
    Farage is the abyss.
    lol

    You live in Trumpland. Is your life falling apart? Get a grip you pitiful bleating no-mark
    Better a no-mark than a skid-mark, perhaps.
    You ranting old roué.
    No one cares what you think, what you do, what you say. You’re some pitiful wandering mediocre middle manager in marketing who doesn’t even live in the UK

    Why don’t you grow up and join an American politics site? That’s where you live. Because your views on here on the UK are increasingly irrelevant, clueless and awkwardly uninformed. So much so they become embarrassing
    I thought you said you had hung up you bile filled boots for the night. Although I suppose technically we are now at "tomorrow" and you might have started early.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,730
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Farage is left-wing compared to Trump, He, Farage, is firmly against capital punishment for instance. He also supports the existence of a national health service.

    Farage is on record as wanting a more insurance based healthcare and he wants to send dangerous criminals to El Salvador
    Don't buy his garbage HY. As a Conservative you should be calling out his divisive racism in favour of promoting the values that have made your one nation Conservative Party into the most effective electoral machine anywhere on the globe in the post industrial revolution period.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,768
    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Lisa Nandy had better start looking for a chicken run:

    Election Maps UK
    @ElectionMapsUK
    ·
    33s
    Wigan Central (Wigan) Council By-Election Result:

    ➡️ RFM: 47.2% (New)
    🌹 LAB: 32.9% (-15.3)
    🙋 Ind: 6.7% (New)
    🌳 CON: 5.1% (-9.4)
    🌍 GRN: 4.4% (-2.1)
    🔶 LDM: 3.7% (+0.2)

    No Ind (-20.6) as previous.

    Reform GAIN from Labour.
    Changes w/ 2024.

    This is probably one of Labour's better areas in Wigan.
    How so?
    Very much the posh bit of Wigan.
    For a long time was the only Tory ward in the Borough. Surprised it didn't go by more tbh.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,505

    HYUFD said:

    If the U.K., like all northwest European countries, didn't take the side of secular democracy against any form of religious fascism, be it Christian, Islamic, Jewish or Buddhist, at some point in the future, it wouldn't survive as a nation, and it would be a different one from what it is.

    There are too many secular people.

    We are nations of Christian heritage, secular democracy alone is just a recipe for falling birthrates and weakness in defence of western culture and heritage. Leaving Islam to fill the gap longer term
    But there wouldn't be enough committed Christians to secure the country against any other form of religion.

    I am in some ways more spiritual thsn secularist, but mass secularism is Britain's defence against both Trumpism and islamism.
    46% of England and Wales were Christian on the last census, they would certainly be more willing to secure the nation than some secular liberal middle class atheists in our inner cities and university towns.

    In the US and Eastern Europe Christian Nationalism is now seen as the main opponent of Islam, same as Orthodox Judaism is the main opponent of Islam in Israel and the West Bank and Gaza and Hindu Nationalism is the main opponent of Islam in India and evangelical Christianity is the main opponent of Islam in North and Mid Africa.

    Liberal secularism meanwhile is getting squeezed in the middle

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,505
    Andy_JS said:

    It's possible Starmer might call it a day after the Caerphilly by-election if Labour come third behind Ref and PC.

    I highly doubt it
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,730
    edited 12:02AM
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Changes in Brentwood

    Ref +45.79% from nowhere
    Con -14.47%
    Lab -14.52%
    LD -9.58%
    Grn -7.23%

    That’s an extraordinary result

    If this continues Reform are going to sweep the board next May, destroying all others. And Farage is a cert for number 10
    Albeit a poll from MiC last weekend had a Burnham led Labour 2% ahead of Reform while Starmer led Labour were 3% behind Reform.

    Farage will also face heavy tactical voting against him like Poilievre did in Canada
    I believe there was some hint of blowback against Farage after Starmer's speech. Farage's polished rebuttal didn't gain the traction he (and I) thought it would. He came across as a whiny hypocrite. Unfortunately Farage has been bolstered by today's event.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,874
    Burnham is definitely Labour's best bet. Unfortunately there's a slight problem - no seat for him in the House of Commons, and Labour wouldn't be able to win a by-election anywhere except for Peckham, and there's no vacancy in Peckham.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,232
    3 Ref gains in Maidstone.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,874
    3 Reform gains from Independent in Maidstone / Harrietsham, Lenham & North Downs

    ➡️ REF, 1228
    ➡️ REF, 1226
    ➡️ REF, 1153
    🟢 Grn, 459
    🟢 Grn, 452
    🟢 Grn, 430
    🔵 Con, 342
    🔵 Con, 285
    🔶 LDM, 236
    🔵 Con, 234
    🔶 LDM, 156
    🔶 LDM, 123
    🏘️ Her, 97
    💁‍♂️ Ind, 74
    💁‍♂️ Ind, 69

    Ref 49.02% [+37.37]
    Grn 18.32% [new]
    Con 13.65% [-2.96]
    LD 9.42% [new]
    Her 3.87% [new]
    Ind (with 74 votes) 2.95% [new]
    Ind (with 69 votes) 2.75% [new]

    no Ind slate [previously 57.85%]
    no Lab [previously 13.90%]
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,483
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Farage is left-wing compared to Trump, He, Farage, is firmly against capital punishment for instance. He also supports the existence of a national health service.

    Farage is on record as wanting a more insurance based healthcare and he wants to send dangerous criminals to El Salvador
    Farage having been recorded suggesting some degree of insurance based health cover (like most of Europe!) twenty years ago is pretty weak sauce. It's only of those "gotchas" that just leaves you thinking "if that's the worst they can find to say about him, he must actually be pretty harmless". Especially when I'm fairly sure he's gone on the record several times since to deny that Reform would go there. (In truth, we probably should be going there, but it's a bit like the triple lock - everyone knows something needs to be done, but no politican wants to risk the fallout from grasping this particular nettle).

    As for sending our dangerous criminals to El Salvador, I can't see the British voting public (especially the Ref leaning British voting public) having much of a problem with that. They'd probably prefer capital punishment, but hey, you take what you can get. It might be a rather harder sell in El Salvador, but Farage isn't trying to get elected there.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,483
    edited 12:43AM
    Andy_JS said:

    Burnham is definitely Labour's best bet. Unfortunately there's a slight problem - no seat for him in the House of Commons, and Labour wouldn't be able to win a by-election anywhere except for Peckham, and there's no vacancy in Peckham.

    If Burnham is their best bet, they truly are doomed. He's a certified umpteen time looser, who's plan for government should he miraculously find himself there boils down to "borrow and spend loads more money, and really really hope the bond market doesn't notice".
    If he tried to do what he's proposing, the bond markets would see him off faster than they saw off Truss; at least her tax cutting bonanza might have generated some growth - Burnham's plans will merely generate debt and inflation.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,196
    One more russian chemical factory on fire.

    https://x.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1973849570275950611

    These russians really do need to stop dropping cigarettes near expensive equipment.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,590
    Andy_JS said:

    Burnham is definitely Labour's best bet. Unfortunately there's a slight problem - no seat for him in the House of Commons, and Labour wouldn't be able to win a by-election anywhere except for Peckham, and there's no vacancy in Peckham.

    I have to disagree, Burnham legged it from Westminster when it got tough for Labour in Opposition and he didn't do anything to try to find a way back when the polls showed that they finally had a chance of getting back into power. Like Sadiq Khan, his opportunity to return to Westminster was always going to be in 2025 and neither of them took the gamble. He might be trying to do a Boris now as Keir Starmer's premiership implodes, but he was not politically astute enough to call it a day as a city Mayor and return to Westminster when it really mattered. His recent interventions look as self servingly cynical as Theresa May's decision to call an unnecessary GE in 2017 on the back of the then polling.

    I am sure there are a few very able Labour politicians who would be a more successful PM and Labour leader than the wooden and uncharismatic nonentity with absolutely no leadership skills that is Kier Starmer. But none of them are showing their faces from the backbenches because the lack of talent in the Cabinet is ever more stark when you remember the huge big media hitters that Blair filled his Cabinet with during his Labour governments. He has no leadership qualities and that was clear when he was in Jeremy Corbyn's Shadow Labour Cabinet back in 2017-2019. I could not believe it when the Labour party voted for the only grey man in a suit in the last Labour leadership contest. I have said it before, his behookie must be full of splinters from all that spinning in the wind on top of the fence on just about every domestic and foreign issue this country has faced since he became Labour leader and then Prime Minister.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,586
    slade said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    It strikes me that a Reform govt could bring about some kind of civil war… his opponents hate Farage so much, and those to the right of him are clucking for aggro… he must have a good chance of being assassinated if he becomes PM. But the alternative is the continued slow destruction of what we thought of as England, and eventual Islamic takeover.
    Yes, the choice is becoming quite stark

    Again - I hate to repeat myself - this is Betz’s thesis. The state dissolves into sectarian sniping and two tier justice (already happening). People are forced to take sides who would really rather not. These sides become evermore polarised until they violently attack each other

    So you end up with quite reasonable people taking up arms

    I know which side I worth choose if the dread moment comes (inshallah it doesn’t). And it ain’t the Islamists and Corbynists
    The UK is following the USA down a path prepared by the old and new media towards a form of Fascism with 21st century technology. Instead of Jews the enemy is Islam. I have no sympathy with this archaic and false religion but its adherents are their own worst enemy. Religion of peace? It was always delivered by the sword. I know which side I am on.
    *One* of the enemies is Islam. Another enemy are trans people; and (particularly in the USA) leftists. Next it will be gays, and anyone who dares to be. or think, a little bit differently.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,682
    edited 3:49AM
    Andy_JS said:

    Why is @Big_G_NorthWales ranting about Antifa now?
    He needs to get off Guido or whatever alt-right nut-shop he’s frequenting.

    Accusing Big_G of being anything to do with the alt-right is ridiculous.
    Eabhal said:

    Why is @Big_G_NorthWales ranting about Antifa now?
    He needs to get off Guido or whatever alt-right nut-shop he’s frequenting.

    I think it was an attempt to copy and paste something he saw on twitter.

    Why is @Big_G_NorthWales ranting about
    "QuoGardenwalker">Why is @Big_G_NorthWales ranting about Antifa now?
    He needs to get off Guido or whatever alt-right nut-shop he’s frequenting.

    What an ignorant post and you shoud be ashamed of such a comment

    It was made live om Sky in an interview by the Chief Executive of the Campaign of Antisemitism

    You should apologise for your unjust comment
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,586
    edited 3:51AM
    isam said:



    Why wouldn’t it happen? The Islamic population is growing faster than any other, they are already winning seats in parliament on a sectarian manifesto. The trend is there, they are motivated, only a fool would ignore or dismiss it.

    *They* are motivated?

    You make it sound as though there is some grand conspiracy of Muslims to take over the UK, that all Muslims are secretly rubbing their hands and saying: "Wait till we get power!!!"

    There will be some nutters like that, but you know what? Most Muslims are like us. They want a nice life. They wants their kids to have nice lives. They want to get on with their lives.

    Also, demographics often don't work out the way you expect, and neither does religiosity passed down generations.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,223

    Oh christ, here we go:

    Politics UK
    @PolitlcsUK
    ·
    1m
    🚨 UPDATE: Jihad al Shamie entered the UK as a child and was granted British citizenship in 2006


    Batten down the hatches, lads. This will not play out well.

    Blimey, is that his actual name ? Double translates to "War from the levant" ?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,586
    Ratters said:

    We cannot let big political decisions be decided by thugs, terrorists and lunatics.

    Today's terrorist attack is horrific. We should mourn its victims. And support the Jewish community that was targeted in this case. They should feel safe on our streets.

    But that has precisely zero bearing on how we should respond to the barbarism of the current Israeli government. In fact, in a counterintuitive way we'd be letting terrorism dictate how we behave if we were to go easy on Netanyahu as a consequence of such an attack.

    Holding this protest shows f-all respect for the people who died today.

    Especially given what the protest is about.

    Yes, they should be free to hold the protest. And we - I would say the nice, civilised people, should be free to shake our heads, think "Not today, you idiots!" and also think less of their 'cause'.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,096
    edited 4:21AM

    MaxPB said:

    Eabhal said:

    Getting some classic #pbfreespeech this evening. The weakest set of principles known on the internet.

    Protesting against what is going on in Gaza is not glorifying violence - it's the exact opposite. It does not equate to expressing glee at the murders that happened today.

    If there are people calling for the death of Jews, or celebrating what happened today, they should be banged up like those who called for the same after Southport.* I'm personally uneasy about any protest happening today given events; we know that some members of the Jewish community find them intimidating. They should have been postponed to tomorrow.

    But I would never presume to deny people's right to free assembly, whatever my personal feelings. If we allow a terrorist attack like the one today to lead us to abandon our principles in this way then the Islamist extremists have succeeded in subverting our democracy.

    *Note that the police don't often arrest people straight away other than ringleaders - we may find that some individuals are lifted the morning like what happened after the far-right march in London.

    You say that but have a Jewish wife and three half Jewish children then tell me that the Gaza flag wavers glorifying Hamas and calling for the eradication of Jews worldwide is just free speech. These thugs are on our streets encouraging acts like the one we saw today, they're out there waving the flags of Hezbollah, Hamas and even ISIS sometimes. They are supporting terrorists and they are celebrating the deaths of innocent people tonight, chanting "from the river to the sea" which is code for "kill all Jews".

    We're allowing this kind of extremism against Jews to be normalised in this country with zero consequences, except to the innocent people who get murdered by the terrorists who are inspired to acts of violence by the mob. My wife hasn't been to the temple for almost 6 months, our third child has yet to be taken there either. This is exactly why, there is a huge amount of fear among the British Jewish community and it's time to bring these Gaza thugs to book.
    Well, Hezbollah Hamas and ISIS are all terrorist organisations so waving their flags is illegal. Arrests should happen.

    Who is calling for the eradication of Jews worldwide?

    "From the river to the sea, Palestine shall be free" is arguably not a call for genocide. The Jewish occupation of Palestine is unfortunately yet another 19th/20th century colonial conflict that has yet to be worked out.
    From the river to the sea is one of those terms I find weird because Israeli people themselves use it.

    For example the Israeli ambassador to the United Kingdom.

    https://x.com/DalrympleWill/status/1939461975995560131

    and

    https://x.com/DalrympleWill/status/1939547944530936113
    It’s not the phrase “from the river to the sea”. The chant is “Palestine shall be free from the river to the sea” implicitly denying the right of Israel to exist
    But see the second tweet, it also implies the denial of a Palestinian state.
    Until relatively recently I would have pointed out that Hamas wants to eliminate every Jew as part of that mission.

    There is also a difference between preventing the creation of a new state and eliminating an existing one. May not be fair but that’s life
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,096

    Leon said:

    Police have now nicked 3 - suspect shot is called 'Jihad Al-Shamie'. British citizen - Syrian.

    The name feels like a joke
    It really does.
    Nominative determinism taken too far.

    British citizen of Syrian descent could mean a lot of things.
    Wasn’t St George a Syrian?
    St George was an Asia Minor Greek, by far the most likely, like St Nicholas.
    His parents were a Syrian living in Palestine and a Cappadocian I believe. He was born in Lydia (in modern Turkey but then an Asia Minor Greek city) but then we get into the rather futile discussion of birthplace vs parental heritage
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,096
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    Farage is a traitor. I'll take the abyss
    Farage is the abyss.
    lol

    You live in Trumpland. Is your life falling apart? Get a grip you pitiful bleating no-mark
    Better a no-mark than a skid-mark, perhaps.
    You ranting old roué.
    No one cares what you think, what you do, what you say. You’re some pitiful wandering mediocre middle manager in marketing who doesn’t even live in the UK

    Why don’t you grow up and join an American politics site? That’s where you live. Because your views on here on the UK are increasingly irrelevant, clueless and awkwardly uninformed. So much so they become embarrassing
    If residence is the issue, are you suggesting that @rcs1000 should give up on pb?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,727
    edited 5:11AM
    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    It strikes me that a Reform govt could bring about some kind of civil war… his opponents hate Farage so much, and those to the right of him are clucking for aggro… he must have a good chance of being assassinated if he becomes PM. But the alternative is the continued slow destruction of what we thought of as England, and eventual Islamic takeover.
    Yes, the choice is becoming quite stark

    Again - I hate to repeat myself ...
    One of the many ridiculous things you said last night.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,730
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Every sane patriotic Brit - and that is surely most of us - has to vote Reform, now. It’s the only choice. It’s that or the abyss

    It strikes me that a Reform govt could bring about some kind of civil war… his opponents hate Farage so much, and those to the right of him are clucking for aggro… he must have a good chance of being assassinated if he becomes PM. But the alternative is the continued slow destruction of what we thought of as England, and eventual Islamic takeover.
    Yes, the choice is becoming quite stark

    Again - I hate to repeat myself ...
    One of the many ridiculous things you said last night.

    Leon harvested his greatest single day crop of hyperbolic likes yesterday. The adulation must be intoxicating. Expect even more of the same today.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,792

    Marvellous that one of my numerous guilty pleasures, Salvage Hunters, is currently highlighting the Khan brothers, a couple of hipster Muslim antiques dealers/restorers. Seem totally English to me, they’ve even got W.G.Grace beards.

    I suppose they’ll be banned in the New Farage Order.

    One can only hope.
    What a depressing post on an equally depressing day.
    You like beards?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,586

    Marvellous that one of my numerous guilty pleasures, Salvage Hunters, is currently highlighting the Khan brothers, a couple of hipster Muslim antiques dealers/restorers. Seem totally English to me, they’ve even got W.G.Grace beards.

    I suppose they’ll be banned in the New Farage Order.

    One can only hope.
    What a depressing post on an equally depressing day.
    You like beards?
    Who does not, comrade? Even the great man himself, Lenin, had a beard. The great Soviet experiment started to go wrong when he died, and his successor only managed to put two slugs under his nose...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,401
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Farage is left-wing compared to Trump, He, Farage, is firmly against capital punishment for instance. He also supports the existence of a national health service.

    Farage is on record as wanting a more insurance based healthcare and he wants to send dangerous criminals to El Salvador
    Could we make him the first one?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,730

    Marvellous that one of my numerous guilty pleasures, Salvage Hunters, is currently highlighting the Khan brothers, a couple of hipster Muslim antiques dealers/restorers. Seem totally English to me, they’ve even got W.G.Grace beards.

    I suppose they’ll be banned in the New Farage Order.

    One can only hope.
    What a depressing post on an equally depressing day.
    You like beards?
    I have one of Great Britain's finest hipster beards. I do not want to be censured for my facial topiary.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,257

    STATEMENT

    I have been on this forum since 2014 and it is without doubt the outstanding place for political discourse, robust arguments, and hopefully influence to the powers that be

    Throughout this time I have tried to contribute honestly and wherever possible provide links

    I use a wide range of sources including Sky which is on most of the time, but also the BBC and articles from the telegraph, guardian, independent and some times guido and other media

    I have consistently expressed my opposition to Farage and Reform, Trump and the far right, and my worries about the state of our politics

    I openly support the conservative party, but am a one nation conservative who actually voted remain though am pleased we have exited the EU

    However, overnight and whilst I was not on this forum @Gardenwalker made an ignorant and unsubstantiated accusation against me that has made me question why I contribute when my words can be taken so much out of context. He said:

    'Why is @Big_G_NorthWales ranting about Antifa now? He needs to get off Guido or whatever alt-right nut-shop he’s frequenting'


    The comments came from Sky last night in a live interview with the Chief Executive of Campaign against antisemitism and he commented as I posted


    Ban these protests which are even taking place now

    Also BBC cannot call Hamas terrorist

    And Antifa in the UK is promoted

    21% has entrenched antisemitic views, raising to 40% of young people

    Blood of British Jews cries out from the ground


    If @Gardenwalker had even bothered to find my post he would have seen the context and I believe he owes me an apology

    It also seems that he (and others) have this obssession over my comments (and very many others) at the time of the beer and curry incident which were seeking the truth about Starmer's involvement and for which he was cleared and I accepted the due process was followed

    I am thick skinned but @Gardenwalker crossed a line, and I have even considered whether I wish to continue but I am not going to let him win on this and hope he will have the decency to apologise for his unjust comments

    I’ve always found him reasonable. Let’s hope this can be resolved amicably. It’s all a little tense around here currently.

    There’s a couple of real dickheads here but he, nor you, are one.
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