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Apologising for the Liz Truss mishanter – politicalbetting.com

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  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,307

    Off topic. The Nowegian Weather are predicted 3 dry days coming up.

    https://www.yr.no/nb/værvarsel/daglig-tabell/2-2649668/Storbritannia/England/Farndale

    Yay!

    Should be perfect for the Strawberry moon. I'll also have to get in some strawberries and cream, which have been huge and tasty, this year.
    The Wimbledon Moon. 😇

    The media are too obsessed by temperature and not if wet or dry.

    25 degrees (heatwave temp) is no good for a picnic, tennis or even beach if it’s raining as well.

    How can we get the stupid people in the media 😠 those who do front pages, to put consecutive days of dry as more newsworthy than a short few days of above av temperature?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,661
    edited June 7
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Secession latest:


    Spencer Hakimian
    @SpencerHakimian

    If I was a Democrat, I’d relentlessly repeat this message.

    Blue states fund the red states.

    Not the other way around.

    https://x.com/SpencerHakimian/status/1931339108783161608

    It won't make any difference, because people in Red states won't believe it. Just as people in Red states believe that Democratic states have more crime than Republican ones, when the opposite is true.

    Beliefs about reality follow prejudices, they do not change them.
    It won't make any difference, because America is polarising on racial lines. As I said last night. And it is critical to understand this - this is, in fact, the crucial insight into all western politics today. Once you understand it, everything makes sense

    I am aware this upsets some of the forum, but it is the case. White people are beginning to vote on the basis of their own identity; it has long been happening in America but is now intensifying there, and this is in turn spreading to Europe. Because it is the inevitable endpoint of mass immigration and multiculturalism. You cannot celebrate difference and diversity and minorities and obsess about skin colour, without, in the end, White people saying "Hey I have an identity, too, I have a colour, when do I get celebrated"?

    It's not a happy evolution. If it continues there will be much trouble. The Danish Social Democrats show a way forward that is not violent, just firm


    "The country where the left (not the far right) made hardline immigration laws"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1mgkd93r4yo


    "BBC Journalist asks Danish Politician how Denmark is able to maintain trust in its Democracy - “Give voters what they want. If they want lower immigration lower it”"

    https://x.com/kunley_drukpa/status/1930279793552941532
    That's what you believe, and you will therefore twist reality to fit your beliefs.
    Which bit is wrong?

    The Danish stuff is indisputable fact, so you must be questioning the Trump assertions. Trump does decidedly well with White voters - in 2024 he won them 55% to 43% for Harris. He won them by playing the Culture Wars, and went big on migration and nativism

    Again, this is surely a fact? And remember I loathe Trump, I think he's basicallly a disaster for the right, worldwide - see Canada

  • TazTaz Posts: 18,776
    Classic Lib Dem here.

    Nimbysim

    Not building here.

    https://x.com/joshreynoldssl6/status/1930953037289275439?s=61
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,837
    A serendipitous reminder outside the caff where I was having coffee & cake this afternoon that old wobbly jowels Jezza isn’t universally popular throughout Britainland.


  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122

    What's with all these stupid names for full moons?

    Somebody must be making money out of it.

    The first stupid woke diversity unicorn name for moons billionaire can't be far off
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,776
    Phil said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.

    Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.

    The success of Clarkson’s Farm concludes another very different argument

    Around the time Clarkson got kicked off Top Gear we had a lot of debate about it. I remember dear @Roger saying, as cluelessly as ever, “these comedians are two a penny, the BBC is brilliant at renewing shows, he’s no loss, the show will come back better than ever”

    Oops. Several of us told him at the time that Clarkson was irreplaceable but he wasn’t having it

    Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
    In very general terms people who don't get Clarksons appeal don't get British Society and people
    A society full of people who think that Clarkson is anything other than a total arsehole is not a society that I want to be part of.
    Society that's with anything needs to accommodate both sets of people.
    Yes, both sets of people.

    Set one who think that Clarkson is a total arsehole.

    And set two who think that Clarkson is a c word.
    Top Gear was the most popular TV show in the world, and astoundingly popular in the UK (for a niche car show). At its peak it regularly got 8m+ viewers. 8 million! The BBC would kill to get that many viewers today, for anything other than live sport

    Here are the ratings for the last week in the UK. The top spot is Race Around the World. 5.5m viewers. Way down on peak Top Gear

    Look who is in 2nd and 4th place and 6th place and 13th place. Jeremy Clarkson

    https://www.barb.co.uk/viewing-data/most-viewed-programmes/
    They just ripped the format from Last of the Summer Wine, made the three guys a bit younger, and added cars.
    Great artists steal etc etc.

    A good formula works for a reason, why change something that works?
    People like them. Let’s make some more.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,335
    On identity politics in the US: I would guess that few of you know about Kevin Stitt, the Republican governor of Oklahoma: "John Kevin Stitt, known as Kevin Stitt, was born in Milton, Florida, on December 28, 1972, to Reverend John L. Stitt and Joyce Stitt.[2] His mother is of Cherokee descent and a citizen of the Cherokee Nation.[3][4] His family moved to Skiatook, Oklahoma, when he was five. He began school in Wayne, Oklahoma, and the family later moved to Norman, Oklahoma, where his father was the pastor of Riverside Church.[4] He grew up alongside cousins who participated in All Indian Rodeo Cowboys Association, and has expressed pride in his heritage.[5] He graduated from Norman High School and from Oklahoma State University with a degree in accounting. Stitt is a member of the Beta Theta Pi fraternity."

    In Oklahoma, being part Indian is an asset, poiitically.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,661

    Off topic. The Nowegian Weather are predicted 3 dry days coming up.

    https://www.yr.no/nb/værvarsel/daglig-tabell/2-2649668/Storbritannia/England/Farndale

    Yay!

    I am meant to be going to a gig in Marylebone tonight. But I am staring mournfully at sheets of cold rain

  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,126

    What's with all these stupid names for full moons?

    Somebody must be making money out of it.

    Strawberry Moon apparently dates to the Native Americans. I expect they never received the royalties they deserve, on it.
    And Europe and Asia had moon names too.

    Sandy is being silly, it was like a calendar to them. “On the next moon we plant the seed.” “On the next moon the wolfs cross the frozen river.”
    Indeed. The Strawberry Moon apparently refers to the beginning of the season for picking wild strawberries, for the Native Americans.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,951
    Afternoon all.

    Been volunteering at a local attraction all afternoon so I've missed a lot of pb action.

    On the Penicillin front my understanding, from people involved, was that much of the development and production work was switched the US for security reasons. British labs and factories were likely to get bombed; US one's weren't.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,661

    A serendipitous reminder outside the caff where I was having coffee & cake this afternoon that old wobbly jowels Jezza isn’t universally popular throughout Britainland.


    Except that is a sly nod to his fame, even then
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,776
    Currently visiting my mom, a couple of miles away from The Plough which will trigger Mexicanpete but at least it’s not Chelmsley Wood, watching Adolescence.

    It’s nothing special and the camera work is mediocre.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,837
    edited June 7
    Roger said:

    MaxPB said:

    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.

    Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.

    Yes, quite

    There’s a discussion above about “hating politicians”. I agree that hatred is a distressing emotion and generally negative for all, nevertheless if I had to describe my emotions about this government and its leader it would come uncomfortably close to “hatred”

    They are damaging and impoverishing us as a country, a people, and a culture - and they do it quite
    overtly. They barely try to hide it. They clearly despise us - and me - so I despise them right back
    Do you and Max prepare your Victor Meldrew/Alf Garnet posts before coming on here or do you just feed off each other? You've always been what you are but I'm sure there was a time when Max was civilised and with an impressive understanding of economics
    However much you suck up to the Hamas supporting flag wavers, you're still Jewish and gay, Roger. They will push you off the building to your death the same as those they killed without mercy on October 7th. Maybe you're so deluded or brainwashed that you think they'd spare you but they won't. I guess you'd walk up to the precipice having realised what you enabled but I'm not so sure.
    I am an Arabphile. I have worked with many from different countries in the Middle East. I did a hair commercial for a Procter and Gamble shampoo and as is their way when it was successful no other Director would do. So however long I kept them waiting or charged it had to be me.......

    I got to know them well and liked them a lot. Like a lot of ancient civilisations they have a very considered way of seeing things. They tell great stories and laugh a lot. The girls beg me to take them to Raymond's when we post produce in London and the girls laugh all the way through

    I've found them warm and humble. in many ways they're sympatico like some Jews but as the Jews i knosw are mainly English and American it's difficult to make comparisons but I can sense the similarities. They have a lot of the Italian in them another nationality I like a lot. I'm not gay but the English hairdresser I take with me is and the females are like giggling schoolgirls when they are around him. More so when he wears skirts. They know their restrictions and talk to you endlessly about them. But they love life and having fun.
    In any case isn’t the Hamas chucking gays off rooftops thing apocryphal, conflated with Isis nutter doing it in Iraq?
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,776
    edited June 7
    Labour MP considering Lib Dem’s. 😉

    Not building here…..

    https://x.com/chinchliffmp/status/1930994336126169344?s=61
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,837
    Leon said:

    A serendipitous reminder outside the caff where I was having coffee & cake this afternoon that old wobbly jowels Jezza isn’t universally popular throughout Britainland.


    Except that is a sly nod to his fame, even then
    Savile Van Hire.

    No relation to Jimmy!
    🙂
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122
    edited June 7
    https://x.com/thetimes/status/1931381012644466751?s=19
    He's back!
    How boring, they can't even fall apart properly
  • ChrisChris Posts: 12,007

    Farage is back in full control of Reform, Zia is out as director. So, not 'workload pressure' then Nige?

    I'm not sure why he would still be a Director when he has resigned as Chairman? Clearly he wants out - it would be weird if he retained a position within the setup.
    Its more a comment on what the party hierarchy have said about why he left - Farage, Tice and Oakeshott pushing the line that he found the workload too much - if it were simply that there would be no need to immediately step down as director, just as Chairman.
    Its obvious that wasn't it from what he said and that Farage, Tice etc are being 'nice' to try and lance the boil.
    We await the Sundays with interest given his silence since that tweet and some of the, shall we say, rather less charitable comments from the likes of Banks etc
    What to do we know?

    Yusuf had been a bit erratic. He made a claim about DEI savings that apparently he couldn't substantiate either during the interview or after it. He made a further claim about specific savings at KCC that apparently wasn't supported by the Reform leader of KCC. According to Camilla Tominey, a briefing she had had with Yusuf was unexpectedly attended by Farage, which Yusuf apparently wasn't overjoyed about.

    That seems to me to be someone who is overworked and stressed out, and getting to be a bit of a concern.

    Then into that, you get Sarah Poachin's Burqa question, and his Tweet calling it 'dumb'.

    It seems to me that he expected (wholly unrealistically in my opinion) Nigel to support him against Poachin the way that he'd supported him against Lowe. But Nigel could never have done that - you can't call an MP dumb on social media for asking a question in the Commons and have that be OK.

    So Nigel didn't support him, and as a result he left (is my theory).

    I would be somewhat surprised if he goes to the Sundays to throw shit at Reform. I am sure he has plenty of shit to throw (anyone that high up in any party would), but I just don't see him doing it.



    We will of course see but there were certainly some interesting reactions - Lee Andersons non thanks and Arron Banks (who is of course on the DOGE squad) suggest a deeper rift in the hierarchy.
    Im not sure he'll go for Reform but certain figures within it. He's been getting trashed left right and centre by some Reformers (and thanked by others), i can't see him shrugging off the attacks.
    If not now a lot of shit will come out during Rupert Lowes action against them.
    Sigh.

    It's a shame.

    However, growing pains. Reform are the equivalent of a 6ft 3-year old just now. It can't all be smooth sailing.
    Absolutely. And as they seem set to become a factor or maybe even a government they need to learn how to 'be' without psychodrama. Too much, too fast, there's an awful lot of people filling in the blank page and not from the same intent. They will be a powderkeg for some time
    The Tories have been since at least 1990 and Labour since the 70s, after all
    Reform do have a big problem coming which is that they still don’t have a coherent ideology outside of their key aims of reducing immigration and being anti woke.

    What exactly do Reform want to be? Old Labour protectionists? Cost-cutting small government freewheelers? Big spenders? Tories in all but name?

    The fact that they are new entrants in a deeply discredited party system and they major on immigration and culture topics gets them a fair step along the road to success, but before long if they desire power they are going to have to start thinking about their overall message. Farage’s tendencies are towards small-state, low tax neo-Thatcherism, I think. I’m not convinced his more high-spending tack of late is anything other than intended to shoot Labour foxes and solidify his appeal with the red wall. But you can’t run a party forever on contradictions. The Tories found that post 2019.
    Five years ago, Farage's tendencies were towards trying to make a quick buck as an unregulated investment guru. Unfortunately that failed, but it would be a mistake to think he has any political convictions, or even any commitment to politics if he thinks he can get more out of doing something else.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122
    So, Zia is back, he's more important to Nigel than the likes of Arron Banks supposed. Fair to say mixed reaction from the confused followers so far
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,661

    https://x.com/thetimes/status/1931381012644466751?s=19
    He's back!
    How boring, they can't even fall apart properly

    That's good for Reform, tho
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122
    From 'no longer a good use of my time' to 'will give all of my time' in a day.
    Lolololololol
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,335
    edited June 7
    For rcs1000: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/homicide_mortality/homicide.htm

    (Note, for instance, the lower rates in Iowa and Indiana, neighbors of Illinois.)

    However, I think that comparing cities is more appropriate, since most policy decisions on crime are made at the county and city levels: https://usafacts.org/articles/which-cities-have-the-highest-murder-rates/
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,661
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Secession latest:


    Spencer Hakimian
    @SpencerHakimian

    If I was a Democrat, I’d relentlessly repeat this message.

    Blue states fund the red states.

    Not the other way around.

    https://x.com/SpencerHakimian/status/1931339108783161608

    It won't make any difference, because people in Red states won't believe it. Just as people in Red states believe that Democratic states have more crime than Republican ones, when the opposite is true.

    Beliefs about reality follow prejudices, they do not change them.
    It won't make any difference, because America is polarising on racial lines. As I said last night. And it is critical to understand this - this is, in fact, the crucial insight into all western politics today. Once you understand it, everything makes sense

    I am aware this upsets some of the forum, but it is the case. White people are beginning to vote on the basis of their own identity; it has long been happening in America but is now intensifying there, and this is in turn spreading to Europe. Because it is the inevitable endpoint of mass immigration and multiculturalism. You cannot celebrate difference and diversity and minorities and obsess about skin colour, without, in the end, White people saying "Hey I have an identity, too, I have a colour, when do I get celebrated"?

    It's not a happy evolution. If it continues there will be much trouble. The Danish Social Democrats show a way forward that is not violent, just firm


    "The country where the left (not the far right) made hardline immigration laws"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1mgkd93r4yo


    "BBC Journalist asks Danish Politician how Denmark is able to maintain trust in its Democracy - “Give voters what they want. If they want lower immigration lower it”"

    https://x.com/kunley_drukpa/status/1930279793552941532
    That's what you believe, and you will therefore twist reality to fit your beliefs.
    Which bit is wrong?

    The Danish stuff is indisputable fact, so you must be questioning the Trump assertions. Trump does decidedly well with White voters - in 2024 he won them 55% to 43% for Harris. He won them by playing the Culture Wars, and went big on migration and nativism

    Again, this is surely a fact? And remember I loathe Trump, I think he's basicallly a disaster for the right, worldwide - see Canada

    My bad, my data here is wrong. Trump actually did even BETTER with Whites than I thought

    He won 56%, Harris got 40%

    That's a HUGE advantage, and - I suggest - supports my thesis of racial caucusing by Caucasians
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122
    edited June 7
    Leon said:

    https://x.com/thetimes/status/1931381012644466751?s=19
    He's back!
    How boring, they can't even fall apart properly

    That's good for Reform, tho
    A lot of vitriolic hatred of Yusuf came pouring out when he quit, Banks 'the champagne corks will be popping at Party HQ' not least, I'm not sure his volt-face is going to be enthusiastically welcomed by all
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,123
    Roger said:

    MaxPB said:

    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.

    Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.

    Yes, quite

    There’s a discussion above about “hating politicians”. I agree that hatred is a distressing emotion and generally negative for all, nevertheless if I had to describe my emotions about this government and its leader it would come uncomfortably close to “hatred”

    They are damaging and impoverishing us as a country, a people, and a culture - and they do it quite
    overtly. They barely try to hide it. They clearly despise us - and me - so I despise them right back
    Do you and Max prepare your Victor Meldrew/Alf Garnet posts before coming on here or do you just feed off each other? You've always been what you are but I'm sure there was a time when Max was civilised and with an impressive understanding of economics
    However much you suck up to the Hamas supporting flag wavers, you're still Jewish and gay, Roger. They will push you off the building to your death the same as those they killed without mercy on October 7th. Maybe you're so deluded or brainwashed that you think they'd spare you but they won't. I guess you'd walk up to the precipice having realised what you enabled but I'm not so sure.
    I am an Arabphile. I have worked with many from different countries in the Middle East. I did a hair commercial for a Procter and Gamble shampoo and as is their way when it was successful no other Director would do. So however long I kept them waiting or charged it had to be me.......

    I got to know them well and liked them a lot. Like a lot of ancient civilisations they have a very considered way of seeing things. They tell great stories and laugh a lot. The girls beg me to take them to Raymond's when we post produce in London and the girls laugh all the way through

    I've found them warm and humble. in many ways they're sympatico like some Jews but as the Jews i knosw are mainly English and American it's difficult to make comparisons but I can sense the similarities. They have a lot of the Italian in them another nationality I like a lot. I'm not gay but the English hairdresser I take with me is and the females are like giggling schoolgirls when they are around him. More so when he wears skirts. They know their restrictions and talk to you endlessly about them. But they love life and having fun.
    I actually appreciate the perspective you've given, it's really interesting to hear it. However, I fear it belongs to a bygone era and you've been exposed to people who work in the media industry and places where media industry people might go. The broader Arab world is a hostile place for non-Muslims outside of a few designated "international" cities such as Dubai, Abu Dhabi and maybe Riyadh post-MBS.

    The survey data consistently shows that the Arab and wider Islamic society is becoming more conservative and less tolerant of other cultures and religions, especially Jews (and Hindus who are seen a sub human due to idol worshipping). Every religion has its intolerant periods, yet it seems as though Islam's has been ongoing since the start with no prospect of a reform/enlightenment movement such as in Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism and many other religions that have very violent pasts.

    I hope that even though he is a despot, MBS and others around him are able to liberalise the Islamic world and drag the conservatives into the modern era, it is admittedly a very low chance but you never know.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,020
    Yusuf and Farage mates again.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,661

    Leon said:

    https://x.com/thetimes/status/1931381012644466751?s=19
    He's back!
    How boring, they can't even fall apart properly

    That's good for Reform, tho
    A lot of vitriolic hatred of Yusuf came pouring out when he quit, Banks 'the champagne corks will be popping at Party HQ' not least, I'm not sure his volt-face is going to be enthusiastically welcomed by all
    Cetainly not, and he gets vile abuse on X and elsewhere. I've seen it

    But by all accounts he is an asset to the party, in different ways. So probably a net positive for Reform - not that voters really notice this stuff
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,626

    Roger said:

    MaxPB said:

    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.

    Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.

    Yes, quite

    There’s a discussion above about “hating politicians”. I agree that hatred is a distressing emotion and generally negative for all, nevertheless if I had to describe my emotions about this government and its leader it would come uncomfortably close to “hatred”

    They are damaging and impoverishing us as a country, a people, and a culture - and they do it quite
    overtly. They barely try to hide it. They clearly despise us - and me - so I despise them right back
    Do you and Max prepare your Victor Meldrew/Alf Garnet posts before coming on here or do you just feed off each other? You've always been what you are but I'm sure there was a time when Max was civilised and with an impressive understanding of economics
    However much you suck up to the Hamas supporting flag wavers, you're still Jewish and gay, Roger. They will push you off the building to your death the same as those they killed without mercy on October 7th. Maybe you're so deluded or brainwashed that you think they'd spare you but they won't. I guess you'd walk up to the precipice having realised what you enabled but I'm not so sure.
    I am an Arabphile. I have worked with many from different countries in the Middle East. I did a hair commercial for a Procter and Gamble shampoo and as is their way when it was successful no other Director would do. So however long I kept them waiting or charged it had to be me.......

    I got to know them well and liked them a lot. Like a lot of ancient civilisations they have a very considered way of seeing things. They tell great stories and laugh a lot. The girls beg me to take them to Raymond's when we post produce in London and the girls laugh all the way through

    I've found them warm and humble. in many ways they're sympatico like some Jews but as the Jews i knosw are mainly English and American it's difficult to make comparisons but I can sense the similarities. They have a lot of the Italian in them another nationality I like a lot. I'm not gay but the English hairdresser I take with me is and the females are like giggling schoolgirls when they are around him. More so when he wears skirts. They know their restrictions and talk to you endlessly about them. But they love life and having fun.
    In any case isn’t the Hamas chucking gays off rooftops thing apocryphal, conflated with Isis nutter doing it in Iraq?
    Indeed. Claims of chucking people off rooves are false. That was ISIS. Male homosexuality does not attract the death penalty in Gaza, although it is semi-criminalised. (The law isn't clear, but female homosexuality is legal.) Hamas does execute people: mostly for claims of spying, sometimes because of factional infighting.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    https://x.com/thetimes/status/1931381012644466751?s=19
    He's back!
    How boring, they can't even fall apart properly

    That's good for Reform, tho
    A lot of vitriolic hatred of Yusuf came pouring out when he quit, Banks 'the champagne corks will be popping at Party HQ' not least, I'm not sure his volt-face is going to be enthusiastically welcomed by all
    Cetainly not, and he gets vile abuse on X and elsewhere. I've seen it

    But by all accounts he is an asset to the party, in different ways. So probably a net positive for Reform - not that voters really notice this stuff
    In terms of their prospects, sure. As long as he's not a real anathema to any of the other key players of course.
    Its amusing for the political nerd watching though, like all political soap opera
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,183
    edited June 7
    Leon said:

    Off topic. The Nowegian Weather are predicted 3 dry days coming up.

    https://www.yr.no/nb/værvarsel/daglig-tabell/2-2649668/Storbritannia/England/Farndale

    Yay!

    I am meant to be going to a gig in Marylebone tonight. But I am staring mournfully at sheets of cold rain

    It's lashing down in Barnes. Cold too. And tonight it is an open air ABBA concert on Barnes Green. Bring a picnic. I feel sorry for the organisers and performers.
    Last night it was Oasis.

    This is the forecast for next Thursday in Barnes.

    Crazy weather!
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,873

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:


    Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died

    The inexorable rise of automotive YouTube killed TG (and his stupid Amazon shit) not Jexit.

    Harry's Garage does reviews way better than TG ever did. Haggard Garage, etc. did the arsing about way better than TG ever did. Whatever your automotive niche fetish is, you can get a far more informed and in-depth version of it on YouTube. The remaining and dwindling audience for TG/GT was lightweight car enthusiasts who don't know what Instant Centre is and don't even own multiple piston ring compressors.

    Disclaimer: never seen a full episode of TG or the stupid Amazon shit but I can still authoritatively disclaim upon them.
    lol

    Top Gear with Clarkson & Co was literally the biggest TV show in the world. Not biggest car show on TV, biggest TV show of any kind. Bought by dozens of countries, with multiple international spin offs, it generated tens of millions for the BBC every year

    Why? Because it wasn’t a car show at all. It was a self satirising comedy about three middle aged men with hobbies and rivalries - and yet a friendship beneath it

    That’s why all the spin offs tried to copy it to the last old geezer detail

    "And on that bombshell, good night!"
    If the BBC wasn’t full of such pathetic Woke wankers, they could have kept Clarkson - and now they’d have a massive hit in Clarkson’s Farm

    But the BBC is full of woke wankers so they didn’t and they haven’t
    I refer the Honourable PBer to the answer given by Mr J Clarkson. The BBC wanted the production office to be based in Scotland. Bureaucracy rather than woke, perhaps.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3QCO0uNNpJk


    Public sector organisations are driven by public policy.
    No public sector organisations are driven by what they want to do and generally manage to find a way to twist the public policy to be what they wanted to do in the first place. This is because public policy is fairly woolly in the first place. For example a public policy could be "reduce inequality".....the two extremes of how to deal with that is from "Execute the bottom decile....to expropriate the wealth of top ten percent and jail them".....both satisfy the public policy.

    The last people that should be trusted to enact public policy is public sector organisations. It is part of why we are in this situation. Instead policy makes need to tell them this is what we want, these are acceptable ways to achieve it
  • vikvik Posts: 481

    Farage is back in full control of Reform, Zia is out as director. So, not 'workload pressure' then Nige?

    I'm not sure why he would still be a Director when he has resigned as Chairman? Clearly he wants out - it would be weird if he retained a position within the setup.
    Its more a comment on what the party hierarchy have said about why he left - Farage, Tice and Oakeshott pushing the line that he found the workload too much - if it were simply that there would be no need to immediately step down as director, just as Chairman.
    Its obvious that wasn't it from what he said and that Farage, Tice etc are being 'nice' to try and lance the boil.
    We await the Sundays with interest given his silence since that tweet and some of the, shall we say, rather less charitable comments from the likes of Banks etc
    What to do we know?

    Yusuf had been a bit erratic. He made a claim about DEI savings that apparently he couldn't substantiate either during the interview or after it. He made a further claim about specific savings at KCC that apparently wasn't supported by the Reform leader of KCC. According to Camilla Tominey, a briefing she had had with Yusuf was unexpectedly attended by Farage, which Yusuf apparently wasn't overjoyed about.

    That seems to me to be someone who is overworked and stressed out, and getting to be a bit of a concern.

    Then into that, you get Sarah Poachin's Burqa question, and his Tweet calling it 'dumb'.

    It seems to me that he expected (wholly unrealistically in my opinion) Nigel to support him against Poachin the way that he'd supported him against Lowe. But Nigel could never have done that - you can't call an MP dumb on social media for asking a question in the Commons and have that be OK.

    So Nigel didn't support him, and as a result he left (is my theory).

    I would be somewhat surprised if he goes to the Sundays to throw shit at Reform. I am sure he has plenty of shit to throw (anyone that high up in any party would), but I just don't see him doing it.



    We will of course see but there were certainly some interesting reactions - Lee Andersons non thanks and Arron Banks (who is of course on the DOGE squad) suggest a deeper rift in the hierarchy.
    Im not sure he'll go for Reform but certain figures within it. He's been getting trashed left right and centre by some Reformers (and thanked by others), i can't see him shrugging off the attacks.
    If not now a lot of shit will come out during Rupert Lowes action against them.
    Sigh.

    It's a shame.

    However, growing pains. Reform are the equivalent of a 6ft 3-year old just now. It can't all be smooth sailing.
    Absolutely. And as they seem set to become a factor or maybe even a government they need to learn how to 'be' without psychodrama. Too much, too fast, there's an awful lot of people filling in the blank page and not from the same intent. They will be a powderkeg for some time
    The Tories have been since at least 1990 and Labour since the 70s, after all
    Reform do have a big problem coming which is that they still don’t have a coherent ideology outside of their key aims of reducing immigration and being anti woke.

    What exactly do Reform want to be? Old Labour protectionists? Cost-cutting small government freewheelers? Big spenders? Tories in all but name?

    The fact that they are new entrants in a deeply discredited party system and they major on immigration and culture topics gets them a fair step along the road to success, but before long if they desire power they are going to have to start thinking about their overall message. Farage’s tendencies are towards small-state, low tax neo-Thatcherism, I think. I’m not convinced his more high-spending tack of late is anything other than intended to shoot Labour foxes and solidify his appeal with the red wall. But you can’t run a party forever on contradictions. The Tories found that post 2019.
    There is a realignment taking place in British politics, which is similar to the realignment in US politics.

    Reform is becoming the party of the working class, with Labour increasingly a party of the uni educated professional class. This is similar to how MAGA Republicans are becoming a working class party, with Democrats a party of the professional class.

    Based on Yougov data:
    Among C2, D & E, Reform leads at 37%, with Lab 19%, Con 15% & Lib Dem 14%
    Among A, B & C1, Labour leads at 24%, with Reform 21%, Con 20% & Lib Dem 19%

    Republican party policies are undergoing a transformation, with any cuts to Social Security or Medicare now off the table for Republicans. Reform policies will undergo a similar transformation, to reflect their working-class voter base.


  • eekeek Posts: 30,244
    edited June 7



    Random fact:

    Bradford once had the most private members' clubs outside of London, with five establishments.

    Bradford used to be (albeit not for long) one of the richest cities in the world
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,102

    Leon said:

    https://x.com/thetimes/status/1931381012644466751?s=19
    He's back!
    How boring, they can't even fall apart properly

    That's good for Reform, tho
    A lot of vitriolic hatred of Yusuf came pouring out when he quit, Banks 'the champagne corks will be popping at Party HQ' not least, I'm not sure his volt-face is going to be enthusiastically welcomed by all
    It all rather smacks of shadowy deals in back rooms, which doesn't give much credence to Reform's drain-the-swamp credentials. And it won't please those who saw his departure as a welcome small step towards Reform racial purity. All in all a week Nigel will want to forget.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,099
    PB Connoisseurs of the Flounce will be impressed with Zia Yusuf, who is now happily back in the steering seat at Reform....

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyv040rnqzo
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,626
    vik said:

    Farage is back in full control of Reform, Zia is out as director. So, not 'workload pressure' then Nige?

    I'm not sure why he would still be a Director when he has resigned as Chairman? Clearly he wants out - it would be weird if he retained a position within the setup.
    Its more a comment on what the party hierarchy have said about why he left - Farage, Tice and Oakeshott pushing the line that he found the workload too much - if it were simply that there would be no need to immediately step down as director, just as Chairman.
    Its obvious that wasn't it from what he said and that Farage, Tice etc are being 'nice' to try and lance the boil.
    We await the Sundays with interest given his silence since that tweet and some of the, shall we say, rather less charitable comments from the likes of Banks etc
    What to do we know?

    Yusuf had been a bit erratic. He made a claim about DEI savings that apparently he couldn't substantiate either during the interview or after it. He made a further claim about specific savings at KCC that apparently wasn't supported by the Reform leader of KCC. According to Camilla Tominey, a briefing she had had with Yusuf was unexpectedly attended by Farage, which Yusuf apparently wasn't overjoyed about.

    That seems to me to be someone who is overworked and stressed out, and getting to be a bit of a concern.

    Then into that, you get Sarah Poachin's Burqa question, and his Tweet calling it 'dumb'.

    It seems to me that he expected (wholly unrealistically in my opinion) Nigel to support him against Poachin the way that he'd supported him against Lowe. But Nigel could never have done that - you can't call an MP dumb on social media for asking a question in the Commons and have that be OK.

    So Nigel didn't support him, and as a result he left (is my theory).

    I would be somewhat surprised if he goes to the Sundays to throw shit at Reform. I am sure he has plenty of shit to throw (anyone that high up in any party would), but I just don't see him doing it.



    We will of course see but there were certainly some interesting reactions - Lee Andersons non thanks and Arron Banks (who is of course on the DOGE squad) suggest a deeper rift in the hierarchy.
    Im not sure he'll go for Reform but certain figures within it. He's been getting trashed left right and centre by some Reformers (and thanked by others), i can't see him shrugging off the attacks.
    If not now a lot of shit will come out during Rupert Lowes action against them.
    Sigh.

    It's a shame.

    However, growing pains. Reform are the equivalent of a 6ft 3-year old just now. It can't all be smooth sailing.
    Absolutely. And as they seem set to become a factor or maybe even a government they need to learn how to 'be' without psychodrama. Too much, too fast, there's an awful lot of people filling in the blank page and not from the same intent. They will be a powderkeg for some time
    The Tories have been since at least 1990 and Labour since the 70s, after all
    Reform do have a big problem coming which is that they still don’t have a coherent ideology outside of their key aims of reducing immigration and being anti woke.

    What exactly do Reform want to be? Old Labour protectionists? Cost-cutting small government freewheelers? Big spenders? Tories in all but name?

    The fact that they are new entrants in a deeply discredited party system and they major on immigration and culture topics gets them a fair step along the road to success, but before long if they desire power they are going to have to start thinking about their overall message. Farage’s tendencies are towards small-state, low tax neo-Thatcherism, I think. I’m not convinced his more high-spending tack of late is anything other than intended to shoot Labour foxes and solidify his appeal with the red wall. But you can’t run a party forever on contradictions. The Tories found that post 2019.
    There is a realignment taking place in British politics, which is similar to the realignment in US politics.

    Reform is becoming the party of the working class, with Labour increasingly a party of the uni educated professional class. This is similar to how MAGA Republicans are becoming a working class party, with Democrats a party of the professional class.

    Based on Yougov data:
    Among C2, D & E, Reform leads at 37%, with Lab 19%, Con 15% & Lib Dem 14%
    Among A, B & C1, Labour leads at 24%, with Reform 21%, Con 20% & Lib Dem 19%

    Republican party policies are undergoing a transformation, with any cuts to Social Security or Medicare now off the table for Republicans. Reform policies will undergo a similar transformation, to reflect their working-class voter base.


    It seems odd to say that Social Security and Medicare cuts are “off the table” for Republicans when Trump’s Big Beautiful Bill contains massive cuts to the US welfare state.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,456
    Can't we just invite the Danish prime minister to run Britain for a few years? She seems to know what she's doing.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,554

    What's with all these stupid names for full moons?

    Somebody must be making money out of it.

    The first stupid woke diversity unicorn name for moons billionaire can't be far off
    Easter moon is the one worth keeping. That is the full moon on or next after 21st March each year which fixes the date of Easter (betwen 22 March and 25 April) and therefore the date of other stuff like Mother's Day, Shrove Tuesday, and Whitsun, which is tomorrow.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,661
    Heating on
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 985
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:


    Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died

    The inexorable rise of automotive YouTube killed TG (and his stupid Amazon shit) not Jexit.

    Harry's Garage does reviews way better than TG ever did. Haggard Garage, etc. did the arsing about way better than TG ever did. Whatever your automotive niche fetish is, you can get a far more informed and in-depth version of it on YouTube. The remaining and dwindling audience for TG/GT was lightweight car enthusiasts who don't know what Instant Centre is and don't even own multiple piston ring compressors.

    Disclaimer: never seen a full episode of TG or the stupid Amazon shit but I can still authoritatively disclaim upon them.
    lol

    Top Gear with Clarkson & Co was literally the biggest TV show in the world. Not biggest car show on TV, biggest TV show of any kind. Bought by dozens of countries, with multiple international spin offs, it generated tens of millions for the BBC every year

    Why? Because it wasn’t a car show at all. It was a self satirising comedy about three middle aged men with hobbies and rivalries - and yet a friendship beneath it

    That’s why all the spin offs tried to copy it to the last old geezer detail

    "And on that bombshell, good night!"
    If the BBC wasn’t full of such pathetic Woke wankers, they could have kept Clarkson - and now they’d have a massive hit in Clarkson’s Farm

    But the BBC is full of woke wankers so they didn’t and they haven’t
    I refer the Honourable PBer to the answer given by Mr J Clarkson. The BBC wanted the production office to be based in Scotland. Bureaucracy rather than woke, perhaps.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3QCO0uNNpJk


    Public sector organisations are driven by public policy.
    No public sector organisations are driven by what they want to do and generally manage to find a way to twist the public policy to be what they wanted to do in the first place. This is because public policy is fairly woolly in the first place. For example a public policy could be "reduce inequality".....the two extremes of how to deal with that is from "Execute the bottom decile....to expropriate the wealth of top ten percent and jail them".....both satisfy the public policy.

    The last people that should be trusted to enact public policy is public sector organisations. It is part of why we are in this situation. Instead policy makes need to tell them this is what we want, these are acceptable ways to achieve it
    Your last sentence is entirely correct but you're ire is in the wrong place. I've worked around senior civil servants for years and in that time I'm utterly convinced that they carry out the wishes of ministers with diligence and competence. The problem is that ministers refuse to make decisions and choices because to make choices is to annoy a section of the electorate. Axing the Winter Fuel Allowance is a classic example. Axing it for anyone not in receipt of other benefits is a clear decision that Civil Servants can and did carry out efficiently. Reinstating but also telling the DWP that they still need to cut spending on pensioners whilst keeping the triple lock in place is a ministerial fudge that will yield bad results.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122
    edited June 7
    algarkirk said:

    What's with all these stupid names for full moons?

    Somebody must be making money out of it.

    The first stupid woke diversity unicorn name for moons billionaire can't be far off
    Easter moon is the one worth keeping. That is the full moon on or next after 21st March each year which fixes the date of Easter (betwen 22 March and 25 April) and therefore the date of other stuff like Mother's Day, Shrove Tuesday, and Whitsun, which is tomorrow.
    Keep it but nationalise it. No more moon name profiteers!
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,307
    Barnesian said:

    Leon said:

    Off topic. The Nowegian Weather are predicted 3 dry days coming up.

    https://www.yr.no/nb/værvarsel/daglig-tabell/2-2649668/Storbritannia/England/Farndale

    Yay!

    I am meant to be going to a gig in Marylebone tonight. But I am staring mournfully at sheets of cold rain

    It's lashing down in Barnes. Cold too. And tonight it is an open air ABBA concert on Barnes Green. Bring a picnic. I feel sorry for the organisers and performers.
    Last night it was Oasis.

    This is the forecast for next Thursday in Barnes.

    Crazy weather!
    My point being, ignore the predicted temperature, that bit on the end is a heavy rain cloud?

    The practical difference with “open air concert Bring a picnic” between sixteen degrees and wet for the concert and thirty degrees and wet for the concert is what exactly?

    As a Nation we need a cultural change, ignore the temperature, is it useable dry weather or not?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,456
    edited June 7
    That was quick.

    "Reform UK chairman Zia Yusuf reverses decision to quit party

    Yusuf has reversed his decision to quit the party, saying "the mission is too important" and that he "cannot let people down". Instead, he said he will return in a new role, heading up an Elon Musk-inspired "UK DOGE team"."

    https://news.sky.com/story/reform-uk-chairman-zia-yusuf-reverses-decision-to-quit-party-13380464
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,837

    Roger said:

    MaxPB said:

    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.

    Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.

    Yes, quite

    There’s a discussion above about “hating politicians”. I agree that hatred is a distressing emotion and generally negative for all, nevertheless if I had to describe my emotions about this government and its leader it would come uncomfortably close to “hatred”

    They are damaging and impoverishing us as a country, a people, and a culture - and they do it quite
    overtly. They barely try to hide it. They clearly despise us - and me - so I despise them right back
    Do you and Max prepare your Victor Meldrew/Alf Garnet posts before coming on here or do you just feed off each other? You've always been what you are but I'm sure there was a time when Max was civilised and with an impressive understanding of economics
    However much you suck up to the Hamas supporting flag wavers, you're still Jewish and gay, Roger. They will push you off the building to your death the same as those they killed without mercy on October 7th. Maybe you're so deluded or brainwashed that you think they'd spare you but they won't. I guess you'd walk up to the precipice having realised what you enabled but I'm not so sure.
    I am an Arabphile. I have worked with many from different countries in the Middle East. I did a hair commercial for a Procter and Gamble shampoo and as is their way when it was successful no other Director would do. So however long I kept them waiting or charged it had to be me.......

    I got to know them well and liked them a lot. Like a lot of ancient civilisations they have a very considered way of seeing things. They tell great stories and laugh a lot. The girls beg me to take them to Raymond's when we post produce in London and the girls laugh all the way through

    I've found them warm and humble. in many ways they're sympatico like some Jews but as the Jews i knosw are mainly English and American it's difficult to make comparisons but I can sense the similarities. They have a lot of the Italian in them another nationality I like a lot. I'm not gay but the English hairdresser I take with me is and the females are like giggling schoolgirls when they are around him. More so when he wears skirts. They know their restrictions and talk to you endlessly about them. But they love life and having fun.
    In any case isn’t the Hamas chucking gays off rooftops thing apocryphal, conflated with Isis nutter doing it in Iraq?
    Indeed. Claims of chucking people off rooves are false. That was ISIS. Male homosexuality does not attract the death penalty in Gaza, although it is semi-criminalised. (The law isn't clear, but female homosexuality is legal.) Hamas does execute people: mostly for claims of spying, sometimes because of factional infighting.
    Ironically Netanyahu now revealed to be funding an ISIS militia in Gaza. I’m sure he’s made stringent checks on their gay friendliness.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,126

    vik said:

    Farage is back in full control of Reform, Zia is out as director. So, not 'workload pressure' then Nige?

    I'm not sure why he would still be a Director when he has resigned as Chairman? Clearly he wants out - it would be weird if he retained a position within the setup.
    Its more a comment on what the party hierarchy have said about why he left - Farage, Tice and Oakeshott pushing the line that he found the workload too much - if it were simply that there would be no need to immediately step down as director, just as Chairman.
    Its obvious that wasn't it from what he said and that Farage, Tice etc are being 'nice' to try and lance the boil.
    We await the Sundays with interest given his silence since that tweet and some of the, shall we say, rather less charitable comments from the likes of Banks etc
    What to do we know?

    Yusuf had been a bit erratic. He made a claim about DEI savings that apparently he couldn't substantiate either during the interview or after it. He made a further claim about specific savings at KCC that apparently wasn't supported by the Reform leader of KCC. According to Camilla Tominey, a briefing she had had with Yusuf was unexpectedly attended by Farage, which Yusuf apparently wasn't overjoyed about.

    That seems to me to be someone who is overworked and stressed out, and getting to be a bit of a concern.

    Then into that, you get Sarah Poachin's Burqa question, and his Tweet calling it 'dumb'.

    It seems to me that he expected (wholly unrealistically in my opinion) Nigel to support him against Poachin the way that he'd supported him against Lowe. But Nigel could never have done that - you can't call an MP dumb on social media for asking a question in the Commons and have that be OK.

    So Nigel didn't support him, and as a result he left (is my theory).

    I would be somewhat surprised if he goes to the Sundays to throw shit at Reform. I am sure he has plenty of shit to throw (anyone that high up in any party would), but I just don't see him doing it.



    We will of course see but there were certainly some interesting reactions - Lee Andersons non thanks and Arron Banks (who is of course on the DOGE squad) suggest a deeper rift in the hierarchy.
    Im not sure he'll go for Reform but certain figures within it. He's been getting trashed left right and centre by some Reformers (and thanked by others), i can't see him shrugging off the attacks.
    If not now a lot of shit will come out during Rupert Lowes action against them.
    Sigh.

    It's a shame.

    However, growing pains. Reform are the equivalent of a 6ft 3-year old just now. It can't all be smooth sailing.
    Absolutely. And as they seem set to become a factor or maybe even a government they need to learn how to 'be' without psychodrama. Too much, too fast, there's an awful lot of people filling in the blank page and not from the same intent. They will be a powderkeg for some time
    The Tories have been since at least 1990 and Labour since the 70s, after all
    Reform do have a big problem coming which is that they still don’t have a coherent ideology outside of their key aims of reducing immigration and being anti woke.

    What exactly do Reform want to be? Old Labour protectionists? Cost-cutting small government freewheelers? Big spenders? Tories in all but name?

    The fact that they are new entrants in a deeply discredited party system and they major on immigration and culture topics gets them a fair step along the road to success, but before long if they desire power they are going to have to start thinking about their overall message. Farage’s tendencies are towards small-state, low tax neo-Thatcherism, I think. I’m not convinced his more high-spending tack of late is anything other than intended to shoot Labour foxes and solidify his appeal with the red wall. But you can’t run a party forever on contradictions. The Tories found that post 2019.
    There is a realignment taking place in British politics, which is similar to the realignment in US politics.

    Reform is becoming the party of the working class, with Labour increasingly a party of the uni educated professional class. This is similar to how MAGA Republicans are becoming a working class party, with Democrats a party of the professional class.

    Based on Yougov data:
    Among C2, D & E, Reform leads at 37%, with Lab 19%, Con 15% & Lib Dem 14%
    Among A, B & C1, Labour leads at 24%, with Reform 21%, Con 20% & Lib Dem 19%

    Republican party policies are undergoing a transformation, with any cuts to Social Security or Medicare now off the table for Republicans. Reform policies will undergo a similar transformation, to reflect their working-class voter base.


    It seems odd to say that Social Security and Medicare cuts are “off the table” for Republicans when Trump’s Big Beautiful Bill contains massive cuts to the US welfare state.
    Not to mention the huge cuts Musk has already made to various services that maga voters rely on, in many different areas.

    No doubt Reform will be the tribunes of the working-class, with their billions of funding from mysterious U.S. sources.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,077

    Farage is back in full control of Reform, Zia is out as director. So, not 'workload pressure' then Nige?

    I'm not sure why he would still be a Director when he has resigned as Chairman? Clearly he wants out - it would be weird if he retained a position within the setup.
    Its more a comment on what the party hierarchy have said about why he left - Farage, Tice and Oakeshott pushing the line that he found the workload too much - if it were simply that there would be no need to immediately step down as director, just as Chairman.
    Its obvious that wasn't it from what he said and that Farage, Tice etc are being 'nice' to try and lance the boil.
    We await the Sundays with interest given his silence since that tweet and some of the, shall we say, rather less charitable comments from the likes of Banks etc
    What to do we know?

    Yusuf had been a bit erratic. He made a claim about DEI savings that apparently he couldn't substantiate either during the interview or after it. He made a further claim about specific savings at KCC that apparently wasn't supported by the Reform leader of KCC. According to Camilla Tominey, a briefing she had had with Yusuf was unexpectedly attended by Farage, which Yusuf apparently wasn't overjoyed about.

    That seems to me to be someone who is overworked and stressed out, and getting to be a bit of a concern.

    Then into that, you get Sarah Poachin's Burqa question, and his Tweet calling it 'dumb'.

    It seems to me that he expected (wholly unrealistically in my opinion) Nigel to support him against Poachin the way that he'd supported him against Lowe. But Nigel could never have done that - you can't call an MP dumb on social media for asking a question in the Commons and have that be OK.

    So Nigel didn't support him, and as a result he left (is my theory).

    I would be somewhat surprised if he goes to the Sundays to throw shit at Reform. I am sure he has plenty of shit to throw (anyone that high up in any party would), but I just don't see him doing it.



    We will of course see but there were certainly some interesting reactions - Lee Andersons non thanks and Arron Banks (who is of course on the DOGE squad) suggest a deeper rift in the hierarchy.
    Im not sure he'll go for Reform but certain figures within it. He's been getting trashed left right and centre by some Reformers (and thanked by others), i can't see him shrugging off the attacks.
    If not now a lot of shit will come out during Rupert Lowes action against them.
    Sigh.

    It's a shame.

    However, growing pains. Reform are the equivalent of a 6ft 3-year old just now. It can't all be smooth sailing.
    Absolutely. And as they seem set to become a factor or maybe even a government they need to learn how to 'be' without psychodrama. Too much, too fast, there's an awful lot of people filling in the blank page and not from the same intent. They will be a powderkeg for some time
    The Tories have been since at least 1990 and Labour since the 70s, after all
    Reform do have a big problem coming which is that they still don’t have a coherent ideology outside of their key aims of reducing immigration and being anti woke.

    What exactly do Reform want to be? Old Labour protectionists? Cost-cutting small government freewheelers? Big spenders? Tories in all but name?

    The fact that they are new entrants in a deeply discredited party system and they major on immigration and culture topics gets them a fair step along the road to success, but before long if they desire power they are going to have to start thinking about their overall message. Farage’s tendencies are towards small-state, low tax neo-Thatcherism, I think. I’m not convinced his more high-spending tack of late is anything other than intended to shoot Labour foxes and solidify his appeal with the red wall. But you can’t run a party forever on contradictions. The Tories found that post 2019.
    Post 2019 the Tories were in Downing Street.

    Pre-2024 Starmer's Labour didn't have a coherent ideology either, hence the Ming Vase strategy. They can't do that in office, but post-2024 they were in Downing Street.

    If Farage can copy Starmer's Ming Vase strategy and only resolve the contradictions once he's Prime Minister, I'm sure he can live with that.

    The bigger problem for the party is the sheer number of voters that Farage is utterly repellent to.
    Since he got into office, he's been dropping that Ming Vase all over the place.
    Smash the Ming vase!

  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,661
    Jeepers

    “Germany is drawing up plans to rapidly expand its network of bomb-proof bunkers and shelters, the government’s most senior civilian protection official has said, warning the state needs to be prepared for an attack from Russia within the next four years.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/07/germany-plans-rapid-bunker-expansion-amid-fears-of-russian-attack

    This is what it must have been like in the 1930s. Except with added technological and religious menace
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122
    Rupert Lowe suggesting his new party/movement is coming soon in response to the Yusuf return
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,675
    edited June 7
    https://x.com/johncrossmirror/status/1931389765888233977

    @johncrossmirror
    England fans chanting: "Starmer is a ****"


    Not much to sing about regarding what's happening on the pitch.

    EDIT: Oh, hope this doesn't get me banned! :lol:
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122
    Leon said:

    Jeepers

    “Germany is drawing up plans to rapidly expand its network of bomb-proof bunkers and shelters, the government’s most senior civilian protection official has said, warning the state needs to be prepared for an attack from Russia within the next four years.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/07/germany-plans-rapid-bunker-expansion-amid-fears-of-russian-attack

    This is what it must have been like in the 1930s. Except with added technological and religious menace

    If you build it they will come
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,554
    vik said:

    Farage is back in full control of Reform, Zia is out as director. So, not 'workload pressure' then Nige?

    I'm not sure why he would still be a Director when he has resigned as Chairman? Clearly he wants out - it would be weird if he retained a position within the setup.
    Its more a comment on what the party hierarchy have said about why he left - Farage, Tice and Oakeshott pushing the line that he found the workload too much - if it were simply that there would be no need to immediately step down as director, just as Chairman.
    Its obvious that wasn't it from what he said and that Farage, Tice etc are being 'nice' to try and lance the boil.
    We await the Sundays with interest given his silence since that tweet and some of the, shall we say, rather less charitable comments from the likes of Banks etc
    What to do we know?

    Yusuf had been a bit erratic. He made a claim about DEI savings that apparently he couldn't substantiate either during the interview or after it. He made a further claim about specific savings at KCC that apparently wasn't supported by the Reform leader of KCC. According to Camilla Tominey, a briefing she had had with Yusuf was unexpectedly attended by Farage, which Yusuf apparently wasn't overjoyed about.

    That seems to me to be someone who is overworked and stressed out, and getting to be a bit of a concern.

    Then into that, you get Sarah Poachin's Burqa question, and his Tweet calling it 'dumb'.

    It seems to me that he expected (wholly unrealistically in my opinion) Nigel to support him against Poachin the way that he'd supported him against Lowe. But Nigel could never have done that - you can't call an MP dumb on social media for asking a question in the Commons and have that be OK.

    So Nigel didn't support him, and as a result he left (is my theory).

    I would be somewhat surprised if he goes to the Sundays to throw shit at Reform. I am sure he has plenty of shit to throw (anyone that high up in any party would), but I just don't see him doing it.



    We will of course see but there were certainly some interesting reactions - Lee Andersons non thanks and Arron Banks (who is of course on the DOGE squad) suggest a deeper rift in the hierarchy.
    Im not sure he'll go for Reform but certain figures within it. He's been getting trashed left right and centre by some Reformers (and thanked by others), i can't see him shrugging off the attacks.
    If not now a lot of shit will come out during Rupert Lowes action against them.
    Sigh.

    It's a shame.

    However, growing pains. Reform are the equivalent of a 6ft 3-year old just now. It can't all be smooth sailing.
    Absolutely. And as they seem set to become a factor or maybe even a government they need to learn how to 'be' without psychodrama. Too much, too fast, there's an awful lot of people filling in the blank page and not from the same intent. They will be a powderkeg for some time
    The Tories have been since at least 1990 and Labour since the 70s, after all
    Reform do have a big problem coming which is that they still don’t have a coherent ideology outside of their key aims of reducing immigration and being anti woke.

    What exactly do Reform want to be? Old Labour protectionists? Cost-cutting small government freewheelers? Big spenders? Tories in all but name?

    The fact that they are new entrants in a deeply discredited party system and they major on immigration and culture topics gets them a fair step along the road to success, but before long if they desire power they are going to have to start thinking about their overall message. Farage’s tendencies are towards small-state, low tax neo-Thatcherism, I think. I’m not convinced his more high-spending tack of late is anything other than intended to shoot Labour foxes and solidify his appeal with the red wall. But you can’t run a party forever on contradictions. The Tories found that post 2019.
    There is a realignment taking place in British politics, which is similar to the realignment in US politics.

    Reform is becoming the party of the working class, with Labour increasingly a party of the uni educated professional class. This is similar to how MAGA Republicans are becoming a working class party, with Democrats a party of the professional class.

    Based on Yougov data:
    Among C2, D & E, Reform leads at 37%, with Lab 19%, Con 15% & Lib Dem 14%
    Among A, B & C1, Labour leads at 24%, with Reform 21%, Con 20% & Lib Dem 19%

    Republican party policies are undergoing a transformation, with any cuts to Social Security or Medicare now off the table for Republicans. Reform policies will undergo a similar transformation, to reflect their working-class voter base.


    I agree a realignment is happening, but it is not like that in the USA. UK voters don't do politics as religion, as MAGA people do. So Farage will have to explicitly move to (nationalist) social democracy to get elected (he already has), Trump could make all sorts of bizarre promises of a contradictory nature and still get elected.

    Farage is rapidly distancing himself from his past. Trump who? He asks.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,951
    edited June 7
    What the something (hat-tip TES) are England doing drawing 0-0 at half time with Andorra?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,873
    Stereodog said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:


    Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died

    The inexorable rise of automotive YouTube killed TG (and his stupid Amazon shit) not Jexit.

    Harry's Garage does reviews way better than TG ever did. Haggard Garage, etc. did the arsing about way better than TG ever did. Whatever your automotive niche fetish is, you can get a far more informed and in-depth version of it on YouTube. The remaining and dwindling audience for TG/GT was lightweight car enthusiasts who don't know what Instant Centre is and don't even own multiple piston ring compressors.

    Disclaimer: never seen a full episode of TG or the stupid Amazon shit but I can still authoritatively disclaim upon them.
    lol

    Top Gear with Clarkson & Co was literally the biggest TV show in the world. Not biggest car show on TV, biggest TV show of any kind. Bought by dozens of countries, with multiple international spin offs, it generated tens of millions for the BBC every year

    Why? Because it wasn’t a car show at all. It was a self satirising comedy about three middle aged men with hobbies and rivalries - and yet a friendship beneath it

    That’s why all the spin offs tried to copy it to the last old geezer detail

    "And on that bombshell, good night!"
    If the BBC wasn’t full of such pathetic Woke wankers, they could have kept Clarkson - and now they’d have a massive hit in Clarkson’s Farm

    But the BBC is full of woke wankers so they didn’t and they haven’t
    I refer the Honourable PBer to the answer given by Mr J Clarkson. The BBC wanted the production office to be based in Scotland. Bureaucracy rather than woke, perhaps.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3QCO0uNNpJk


    Public sector organisations are driven by public policy.
    No public sector organisations are driven by what they want to do and generally manage to find a way to twist the public policy to be what they wanted to do in the first place. This is because public policy is fairly woolly in the first place. For example a public policy could be "reduce inequality".....the two extremes of how to deal with that is from "Execute the bottom decile....to expropriate the wealth of top ten percent and jail them".....both satisfy the public policy.

    The last people that should be trusted to enact public policy is public sector organisations. It is part of why we are in this situation. Instead policy makes need to tell them this is what we want, these are acceptable ways to achieve it
    Your last sentence is entirely correct but you're ire is in the wrong place. I've worked around senior civil servants for years and in that time I'm utterly convinced that they carry out the wishes of ministers with diligence and competence. The problem is that ministers refuse to make decisions and choices because to make choices is to annoy a section of the electorate. Axing the Winter Fuel Allowance is a classic example. Axing it for anyone not in receipt of other benefits is a clear decision that Civil Servants can and did carry out efficiently. Reinstating but also telling the DWP that they still need to cut spending on pensioners whilst keeping the triple lock in place is a ministerial fudge that will yield bad results.
    I too have worked on projects for the civil service, the first I worked on was they wanted to show that public transport was both cheaper and took less time than using a car. DFT project, we were a private sector company they employed. They were told in the first meeting their project would show nothing of the kind. They still insisted it would despite us being experts and then spent 7 million to create a system that showed exactly what we suggested it would which was that mostly car travel was quicker and cheaper than public transport.

    If they had listened they would have saved 7 million, they were responding to the policy get more people using public transport.

    Sorry the civil service needs a lot more oversight it wastes money in the same way sailors spend on dockside hookers
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,663

    Leon said:

    https://x.com/thetimes/status/1931381012644466751?s=19
    He's back!
    How boring, they can't even fall apart properly

    That's good for Reform, tho
    A lot of vitriolic hatred of Yusuf came pouring out when he quit, Banks 'the champagne corks will be popping at Party HQ' not least, I'm not sure his volt-face is going to be enthusiastically welcomed by all
    It's a bit of a shock. :wink:

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122

    Leon said:

    Jeepers

    “Germany is drawing up plans to rapidly expand its network of bomb-proof bunkers and shelters, the government’s most senior civilian protection official has said, warning the state needs to be prepared for an attack from Russia within the next four years.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/07/germany-plans-rapid-bunker-expansion-amid-fears-of-russian-attack

    This is what it must have been like in the 1930s. Except with added technological and religious menace

    If you build it they will come
    Which i didn't mean quite that flippantly, but nevermind.
    There was an argument in this respect during the cold war - building shelters made attack more likely
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,198
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    https://x.com/thetimes/status/1931381012644466751?s=19
    He's back!
    How boring, they can't even fall apart properly

    That's good for Reform, tho
    A lot of vitriolic hatred of Yusuf came pouring out when he quit, Banks 'the champagne corks will be popping at Party HQ' not least, I'm not sure his volt-face is going to be enthusiastically welcomed by all
    It's a bit of a shock. :wink:

    Mail says he will now be the new Reform DOGE head.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,663
    edited June 7
    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/johncrossmirror/status/1931389765888233977

    @johncrossmirror
    England fans chanting: "Starmer is a ****"


    Not much to sing about regarding what's happening on the pitch.

    EDIT: Oh, hope this doesn't get me banned! :lol:

    Surely, "Keir Keir Keir ... Starmer is a *anker" scans better as a chant, to "Do do do - Come on and do the Conga".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvkvWqpS3LM

    Modern football fans ! - Must all be Pfaffers.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,554

    vik said:

    Farage is back in full control of Reform, Zia is out as director. So, not 'workload pressure' then Nige?

    I'm not sure why he would still be a Director when he has resigned as Chairman? Clearly he wants out - it would be weird if he retained a position within the setup.
    Its more a comment on what the party hierarchy have said about why he left - Farage, Tice and Oakeshott pushing the line that he found the workload too much - if it were simply that there would be no need to immediately step down as director, just as Chairman.
    Its obvious that wasn't it from what he said and that Farage, Tice etc are being 'nice' to try and lance the boil.
    We await the Sundays with interest given his silence since that tweet and some of the, shall we say, rather less charitable comments from the likes of Banks etc
    What to do we know?

    Yusuf had been a bit erratic. He made a claim about DEI savings that apparently he couldn't substantiate either during the interview or after it. He made a further claim about specific savings at KCC that apparently wasn't supported by the Reform leader of KCC. According to Camilla Tominey, a briefing she had had with Yusuf was unexpectedly attended by Farage, which Yusuf apparently wasn't overjoyed about.

    That seems to me to be someone who is overworked and stressed out, and getting to be a bit of a concern.

    Then into that, you get Sarah Poachin's Burqa question, and his Tweet calling it 'dumb'.

    It seems to me that he expected (wholly unrealistically in my opinion) Nigel to support him against Poachin the way that he'd supported him against Lowe. But Nigel could never have done that - you can't call an MP dumb on social media for asking a question in the Commons and have that be OK.

    So Nigel didn't support him, and as a result he left (is my theory).

    I would be somewhat surprised if he goes to the Sundays to throw shit at Reform. I am sure he has plenty of shit to throw (anyone that high up in any party would), but I just don't see him doing it.



    We will of course see but there were certainly some interesting reactions - Lee Andersons non thanks and Arron Banks (who is of course on the DOGE squad) suggest a deeper rift in the hierarchy.
    Im not sure he'll go for Reform but certain figures within it. He's been getting trashed left right and centre by some Reformers (and thanked by others), i can't see him shrugging off the attacks.
    If not now a lot of shit will come out during Rupert Lowes action against them.
    Sigh.

    It's a shame.

    However, growing pains. Reform are the equivalent of a 6ft 3-year old just now. It can't all be smooth sailing.
    Absolutely. And as they seem set to become a factor or maybe even a government they need to learn how to 'be' without psychodrama. Too much, too fast, there's an awful lot of people filling in the blank page and not from the same intent. They will be a powderkeg for some time
    The Tories have been since at least 1990 and Labour since the 70s, after all
    Reform do have a big problem coming which is that they still don’t have a coherent ideology outside of their key aims of reducing immigration and being anti woke.

    What exactly do Reform want to be? Old Labour protectionists? Cost-cutting small government freewheelers? Big spenders? Tories in all but name?

    The fact that they are new entrants in a deeply discredited party system and they major on immigration and culture topics gets them a fair step along the road to success, but before long if they desire power they are going to have to start thinking about their overall message. Farage’s tendencies are towards small-state, low tax neo-Thatcherism, I think. I’m not convinced his more high-spending tack of late is anything other than intended to shoot Labour foxes and solidify his appeal with the red wall. But you can’t run a party forever on contradictions. The Tories found that post 2019.
    There is a realignment taking place in British politics, which is similar to the realignment in US politics.

    Reform is becoming the party of the working class, with Labour increasingly a party of the uni educated professional class. This is similar to how MAGA Republicans are becoming a working class party, with Democrats a party of the professional class.

    Based on Yougov data:
    Among C2, D & E, Reform leads at 37%, with Lab 19%, Con 15% & Lib Dem 14%
    Among A, B & C1, Labour leads at 24%, with Reform 21%, Con 20% & Lib Dem 19%

    Republican party policies are undergoing a transformation, with any cuts to Social Security or Medicare now off the table for Republicans. Reform policies will undergo a similar transformation, to reflect their working-class voter base.


    It seems odd to say that Social Security and Medicare cuts are “off the table” for Republicans when Trump’s Big Beautiful Bill contains massive cuts to the US welfare state.
    Not to mention the huge cuts Musk has already made to various services that maga voters rely on, in many different areas.

    No doubt Reform will be the tribunes of the working-class, with their billions of funding from mysterious U.S. sources.
    Ignore the billionaires for a moment. For Reform to have any chance of forming a government they have to produce a manifesto. This will be in 2029. Anyone who thinks the UK voting public are going to vote for a manifesto of NHS abolition, abolishing pensions, low tax and low spend have not met the people of Clacton in outpatients on pension day.

    Reform's manifesto is going to be subject to an amazing and unprecedented degree of scrutiny. It will be a social democrats charter.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,675
    MattW said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/johncrossmirror/status/1931389765888233977

    @johncrossmirror
    England fans chanting: "Starmer is a ****"


    Not much to sing about regarding what's happening on the pitch.

    EDIT: Oh, hope this doesn't get me banned! :lol:

    Surely, "Starmer is a *anker" scans better as a chant, to "Do do do - Come on and do the Conga".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvkvWqpS3LM

    Modern football fans !
    I've got it on my laptop in the background, but didn't notice the chant. My guess is they're singing it to the tune of give it up by KC and The Sunshine Band.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,198
    Andy_JS said:

    That was quick.

    "Reform UK chairman Zia Yusuf reverses decision to quit party

    Yusuf has reversed his decision to quit the party, saying "the mission is too important" and that he "cannot let people down". Instead, he said he will return in a new role, heading up an Elon Musk-inspired "UK DOGE team"."

    https://news.sky.com/story/reform-uk-chairman-zia-yusuf-reverses-decision-to-quit-party-13380464

    Elon Musk? He was the future once.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,873
    Pagan2 said:

    Stereodog said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:


    Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died

    The inexorable rise of automotive YouTube killed TG (and his stupid Amazon shit) not Jexit.

    Harry's Garage does reviews way better than TG ever did. Haggard Garage, etc. did the arsing about way better than TG ever did. Whatever your automotive niche fetish is, you can get a far more informed and in-depth version of it on YouTube. The remaining and dwindling audience for TG/GT was lightweight car enthusiasts who don't know what Instant Centre is and don't even own multiple piston ring compressors.

    Disclaimer: never seen a full episode of TG or the stupid Amazon shit but I can still authoritatively disclaim upon them.
    lol

    Top Gear with Clarkson & Co was literally the biggest TV show in the world. Not biggest car show on TV, biggest TV show of any kind. Bought by dozens of countries, with multiple international spin offs, it generated tens of millions for the BBC every year

    Why? Because it wasn’t a car show at all. It was a self satirising comedy about three middle aged men with hobbies and rivalries - and yet a friendship beneath it

    That’s why all the spin offs tried to copy it to the last old geezer detail

    "And on that bombshell, good night!"
    If the BBC wasn’t full of such pathetic Woke wankers, they could have kept Clarkson - and now they’d have a massive hit in Clarkson’s Farm

    But the BBC is full of woke wankers so they didn’t and they haven’t
    I refer the Honourable PBer to the answer given by Mr J Clarkson. The BBC wanted the production office to be based in Scotland. Bureaucracy rather than woke, perhaps.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3QCO0uNNpJk


    Public sector organisations are driven by public policy.
    No public sector organisations are driven by what they want to do and generally manage to find a way to twist the public policy to be what they wanted to do in the first place. This is because public policy is fairly woolly in the first place. For example a public policy could be "reduce inequality".....the two extremes of how to deal with that is from "Execute the bottom decile....to expropriate the wealth of top ten percent and jail them".....both satisfy the public policy.

    The last people that should be trusted to enact public policy is public sector organisations. It is part of why we are in this situation. Instead policy makes need to tell them this is what we want, these are acceptable ways to achieve it
    Your last sentence is entirely correct but you're ire is in the wrong place. I've worked around senior civil servants for years and in that time I'm utterly convinced that they carry out the wishes of ministers with diligence and competence. The problem is that ministers refuse to make decisions and choices because to make choices is to annoy a section of the electorate. Axing the Winter Fuel Allowance is a classic example. Axing it for anyone not in receipt of other benefits is a clear decision that Civil Servants can and did carry out efficiently. Reinstating but also telling the DWP that they still need to cut spending on pensioners whilst keeping the triple lock in place is a ministerial fudge that will yield bad results.
    I too have worked on projects for the civil service, the first I worked on was they wanted to show that public transport was both cheaper and took less time than using a car. DFT project, we were a private sector company they employed. They were told in the first meeting their project would show nothing of the kind. They still insisted it would despite us being experts and then spent 7 million to create a system that showed exactly what we suggested it would which was that mostly car travel was quicker and cheaper than public transport.

    If they had listened they would have saved 7 million, they were responding to the policy get more people using public transport.

    Sorry the civil service needs a lot more oversight it wastes money in the same way sailors spend on dockside hookers
    Another project I worked on was for the nhs, replacing pagers with something more useful. We wrote an app that worked on a cheap android, not just a phone number to ring but info about what the emergency was etc....trialled was loved. The idea was the phone was given out at shift start...sign in....sign out hand phone back for reissue.

    Trial successful but wouldn't adopt it till we made an iphone version.....result phones cost min of 30 times more and half of them mysteriously vanished over the first year and had to be replaced.....far from it for me to suggest that some nhs staff were thinking hey free i phone for me
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,041
    Leon said:

    Jeepers

    “Germany is drawing up plans to rapidly expand its network of bomb-proof bunkers and shelters, the government’s most senior civilian protection official has said, warning the state needs to be prepared for an attack from Russia within the next four years.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/07/germany-plans-rapid-bunker-expansion-amid-fears-of-russian-attack

    This is what it must have been like in the 1930s. Except with added technological and religious menace

    In Germany? Were the Germans building air-raid shelters in the 1930s? Whose bombs were they worried about?

    And I do not think we were, either. Tube stations and basements were already there, and Anderson shelters were 1938 or 39. School shelters *might* have been earlier but I doubt it.

    What the British authorities were worried about in the run-up to the war wasn't bombs, it was gas. You can see public information films from the time, and of course everyone was issued with a gas mask.


  • SonofContrarianSonofContrarian Posts: 178
    Hope you you were all on my Derby tip Lazy Griff..😏👌
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,041
    tlg86 said:

    MattW said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/johncrossmirror/status/1931389765888233977

    @johncrossmirror
    England fans chanting: "Starmer is a ****"


    Not much to sing about regarding what's happening on the pitch.

    EDIT: Oh, hope this doesn't get me banned! :lol:

    Surely, "Starmer is a *anker" scans better as a chant, to "Do do do - Come on and do the Conga".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvkvWqpS3LM

    Modern football fans !
    I've got it on my laptop in the background, but didn't notice the chant. My guess is they're singing it to the tune of give it up by KC and The Sunshine Band.
    Starmer is inspiring England to hold the mighty Andorra to a 0-0 draw.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122
    Kane accidentally scores
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,198
    Relief for England.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,630

    Leon said:

    https://x.com/thetimes/status/1931381012644466751?s=19
    He's back!
    How boring, they can't even fall apart properly

    That's good for Reform, tho
    A lot of vitriolic hatred of Yusuf came pouring out when he quit, Banks 'the champagne corks will be popping at Party HQ' not least, I'm not sure his volt-face is going to be enthusiastically welcomed by all
    Not really. He isn't coming back as Chairman, so he won't be bothering anyone 'at Party HQ', he will head up DOGE, and that will take less time and be a bit less stressful.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,629
    Ha, just ripped through the Andorra defence there. One nil!
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,873
    edited June 7

    tlg86 said:

    MattW said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/johncrossmirror/status/1931389765888233977

    @johncrossmirror
    England fans chanting: "Starmer is a ****"


    Not much to sing about regarding what's happening on the pitch.

    EDIT: Oh, hope this doesn't get me banned! :lol:

    Surely, "Starmer is a *anker" scans better as a chant, to "Do do do - Come on and do the Conga".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvkvWqpS3LM

    Modern football fans !
    I've got it on my laptop in the background, but didn't notice the chant. My guess is they're singing it to the tune of give it up by KC and The Sunshine Band.
    Starmer is inspiring England to hold the mighty Andorra to a 0-0 draw.
    Did he tell them he would assume it was a sign of support if they lost but take a victory as sign of support for his junta?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,102

    Andy_JS said:

    That was quick.

    "Reform UK chairman Zia Yusuf reverses decision to quit party

    Yusuf has reversed his decision to quit the party, saying "the mission is too important" and that he "cannot let people down". Instead, he said he will return in a new role, heading up an Elon Musk-inspired "UK DOGE team"."

    https://news.sky.com/story/reform-uk-chairman-zia-yusuf-reverses-decision-to-quit-party-13380464

    Elon Musk? He was the future once.
    I really think Reform need to abandon this DOGE stuff. In the coming months it's going to be exposed as an absolutely disaster in the US (if it hasn't been already). By the time of the next UK GE, Sir Keir a co. will be champing at the bit to hang the acronym around Nigel's neck like a noose. They don't need to be signing up to this thing. Why do it?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122
    edited June 7

    Leon said:

    https://x.com/thetimes/status/1931381012644466751?s=19
    He's back!
    How boring, they can't even fall apart properly

    That's good for Reform, tho
    A lot of vitriolic hatred of Yusuf came pouring out when he quit, Banks 'the champagne corks will be popping at Party HQ' not least, I'm not sure his volt-face is going to be enthusiastically welcomed by all
    Not really. He isn't coming back as Chairman, so he won't be bothering anyone 'at Party HQ', he will head up DOGE, and that will take less time and be a bit less stressful.
    He says he will also be helping make policy. Anyway, we will see how he gets on with everyone who cheered at him leaving.
    Might all be forgotten by Monday. Or it might flare up again. Certainly him being within Reform when Lowes lawsuit is going through will be popcorn time one way or the other.
    All part of the joy of politics watching
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,629

    Leon said:

    https://x.com/thetimes/status/1931381012644466751?s=19
    He's back!
    How boring, they can't even fall apart properly

    That's good for Reform, tho
    A lot of vitriolic hatred of Yusuf came pouring out when he quit, Banks 'the champagne corks will be popping at Party HQ' not least, I'm not sure his volt-face is going to be enthusiastically welcomed by all
    Not really. He isn't coming back as Chairman, so he won't be bothering anyone 'at Party HQ', he will head up DOGE, and that will take less time and be a bit less stressful.
    "Head up DOGE" ... this doesn't augur well.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,667
    IanB2 said:

    Despite Brexit, the UK is still following EU law on new car models, all of which have to deliver extremely annoying visual and audio warnings whenever the car thinks you are driving faster than the speed limit.

    Interesting. I hate noises in cars like when you don't wear a seatbelt but in Dubai their cars had limiters (?) which stopped the car going above the speed limit. I don't even remember an accompanying noise. I always thought that was a good idea
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,198

    Andy_JS said:

    That was quick.

    "Reform UK chairman Zia Yusuf reverses decision to quit party

    Yusuf has reversed his decision to quit the party, saying "the mission is too important" and that he "cannot let people down". Instead, he said he will return in a new role, heading up an Elon Musk-inspired "UK DOGE team"."

    https://news.sky.com/story/reform-uk-chairman-zia-yusuf-reverses-decision-to-quit-party-13380464

    Elon Musk? He was the future once.
    I really think Reform need to abandon this DOGE stuff. In the coming months it's going to be exposed as an absolutely disaster in the US (if it hasn't been already). By the time of the next UK GE, Sir Keir a co. will be champing at the bit to hang the acronym around Nigel's neck like a noose. They don't need to be signing up to this thing. Why do it?
    DOGE and mortgage bombshell will be the Labour poster/social media post campaign.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,593
    DOGE should be renamed the department for screwing the poor and those who need to use public services .
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,873
    kinabalu said:

    Ha, just ripped through the Andorra defence there. One nil!

    hmm country where 1 in 7300 citizens are in the football team against country where we have a choice of 6.2 million for each position and we are celebrating being 1 up....now either andorrans are all natural born footballers or just our team is crap
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,629
    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Ha, just ripped through the Andorra defence there. One nil!

    hmm country where 1 in 7300 citizens are in the football team against country where we have a choice of 6.2 million for each position and we are celebrating being 1 up....now either andorrans are all natural born footballers or just our team is crap
    I always root for our boys.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,873
    nico67 said:

    DOGE should be renamed the department for screwing the poor and those who need to use public services .

    Starmers Labour is now calling it self DOGE?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122
    nico67 said:

    DOGE should be renamed the department for screwing the poor and those who need to use public services .

    DOGE has discovered billions in council tax receipts being wasted on public services. We are putting an end to that! Who needs libraries anyway?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,102
    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Ha, just ripped through the Andorra defence there. One nil!

    hmm country where 1 in 7300 citizens are in the football team against country where we have a choice of 6.2 million for each position and we are celebrating being 1 up....now either andorrans are all natural born footballers or just our team is crap
    We have a team of world-beating superstars who should be capable of winning every tournament. Problem is their insipid Lefty manager Gareth Southgate is drowning the players ambition and potential in a sea of woke. Once he finally goes the magic will commence.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,873

    nico67 said:

    DOGE should be renamed the department for screwing the poor and those who need to use public services .

    DOGE has discovered billions in council tax receipts being wasted on public services. We are putting an end to that! Who needs libraries anyway?
    Pretty few people frankly, we have this thing called the internet....its like a library just with a lot more books. Percentage of households without internet is 7% this year. Libraries are expensive at what percentage without internet do you think we are probably spending money on things few need?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,873

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Ha, just ripped through the Andorra defence there. One nil!

    hmm country where 1 in 7300 citizens are in the football team against country where we have a choice of 6.2 million for each position and we are celebrating being 1 up....now either andorrans are all natural born footballers or just our team is crap
    We have a team of world-beating superstars who should be capable of winning every tournament. Problem is their insipid Lefty manager Gareth Southgate is drowning the players ambition and potential in a sea of woke. Once he finally goes the magic will commence.
    Not sure you can blame football success or the lack of it on woke tbh....what is mr southgate saying to them that woke could be an issue....don't tackle players that aren't white as its colonilist imperialism all over again?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,661

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Ha, just ripped through the Andorra defence there. One nil!

    hmm country where 1 in 7300 citizens are in the football team against country where we have a choice of 6.2 million for each position and we are celebrating being 1 up....now either andorrans are all natural born footballers or just our team is crap
    We have a team of world-beating superstars who should be capable of winning every tournament. Problem is their insipid Lefty manager Gareth Southgate is drowning the players ambition and potential in a sea of woke. Once he finally goes the magic will commence.
    Are they still taking the bleedin' knee?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,198
    Pagan2 said:

    nico67 said:

    DOGE should be renamed the department for screwing the poor and those who need to use public services .

    DOGE has discovered billions in council tax receipts being wasted on public services. We are putting an end to that! Who needs libraries anyway?
    Pretty few people frankly, we have this thing called the internet....its like a library just with a lot more books. Percentage of households without internet is 7% this year. Libraries are expensive at what percentage without internet do you think we are probably spending money on things few need?
    Books are not the same as the Internet.

  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,873

    Pagan2 said:

    nico67 said:

    DOGE should be renamed the department for screwing the poor and those who need to use public services .

    DOGE has discovered billions in council tax receipts being wasted on public services. We are putting an end to that! Who needs libraries anyway?
    Pretty few people frankly, we have this thing called the internet....its like a library just with a lot more books. Percentage of households without internet is 7% this year. Libraries are expensive at what percentage without internet do you think we are probably spending money on things few need?
    Books are not the same as the Internet.

    Indeed they are usually outdated
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,776

    So, Zia is back, he's more important to Nigel than the likes of Arron Banks supposed. Fair to say mixed reaction from the confused followers so far

    What a shambles Reform are.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,198

    nico67 said:

    DOGE should be renamed the department for screwing the poor and those who need to use public services .

    DOGE has discovered billions in council tax receipts being wasted on public services. We are putting an end to that! Who needs libraries anyway?
    UK Yusuf DOGE will prat around and then get to the same point that Musk DOGE has reached: huge amounts of £ are spent on welfare, pensions, and in UK case, social and health care. Yes you can close down overseas aid but that doesn't cut the mustard on the big bucks.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,629
    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Ha, just ripped through the Andorra defence there. One nil!

    hmm country where 1 in 7300 citizens are in the football team against country where we have a choice of 6.2 million for each position and we are celebrating being 1 up....now either andorrans are all natural born footballers or just our team is crap
    We have a team of world-beating superstars who should be capable of winning every tournament. Problem is their insipid Lefty manager Gareth Southgate is drowning the players ambition and potential in a sea of woke. Once he finally goes the magic will commence.
    Are they still taking the bleedin' knee?
    I'm pleased to say they do.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,873
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Ha, just ripped through the Andorra defence there. One nil!

    hmm country where 1 in 7300 citizens are in the football team against country where we have a choice of 6.2 million for each position and we are celebrating being 1 up....now either andorrans are all natural born footballers or just our team is crap
    We have a team of world-beating superstars who should be capable of winning every tournament. Problem is their insipid Lefty manager Gareth Southgate is drowning the players ambition and potential in a sea of woke. Once he finally goes the magic will commence.
    Are they still taking the bleedin' knee?
    I'm pleased to say they do.
    You are pleased they are still racist
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,629
    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Ha, just ripped through the Andorra defence there. One nil!

    hmm country where 1 in 7300 citizens are in the football team against country where we have a choice of 6.2 million for each position and we are celebrating being 1 up....now either andorrans are all natural born footballers or just our team is crap
    We have a team of world-beating superstars who should be capable of winning every tournament. Problem is their insipid Lefty manager Gareth Southgate is drowning the players ambition and potential in a sea of woke. Once he finally goes the magic will commence.
    Are they still taking the bleedin' knee?
    I'm pleased to say they do.
    You are pleased they are still racist
    Que?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,661
    "Juan de Andorra, the Bishop of Urgell << checks notes, runs out of names >> your boys took a hell of a beating!"
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,873
    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Ha, just ripped through the Andorra defence there. One nil!

    hmm country where 1 in 7300 citizens are in the football team against country where we have a choice of 6.2 million for each position and we are celebrating being 1 up....now either andorrans are all natural born footballers or just our team is crap
    We have a team of world-beating superstars who should be capable of winning every tournament. Problem is their insipid Lefty manager Gareth Southgate is drowning the players ambition and potential in a sea of woke. Once he finally goes the magic will commence.
    Are they still taking the bleedin' knee?
    I'm pleased to say they do.
    You are pleased they are still racist
    Que?
    If you take the knee because black lives matter you are implying by inference those lives are more important than asian lives or white lives. Sorry if you can't see that
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,629

    nico67 said:

    DOGE should be renamed the department for screwing the poor and those who need to use public services .

    DOGE has discovered billions in council tax receipts being wasted on public services. We are putting an end to that! Who needs libraries anyway?
    UK Yusuf DOGE will prat around and then get to the same point that Musk DOGE has reached: huge amounts of £ are spent on welfare, pensions, and in UK case, social and health care. Yes you can close down overseas aid but that doesn't cut the mustard on the big bucks.
    I hope he's not going to start waving a chainsaw around.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,661
    Is there a sport more boring than football, when it is like this?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,198
    Sir John Curtice:


    Times Radio
    @TimesRadio

    “Reform has essentially taken the coalition of people who gave Boris Johnson his majority in 2019.”

    https://x.com/TimesRadio/status/1931346961321402512
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,198
    Leon said:

    Is there a sport more boring than football, when it is like this?

    We will take the win and the points and it will all be forget by Wednesday.

    However, tomorrow's sports pages will be a sight...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,590
    kinabalu said:

    nico67 said:

    DOGE should be renamed the department for screwing the poor and those who need to use public services .

    DOGE has discovered billions in council tax receipts being wasted on public services. We are putting an end to that! Who needs libraries anyway?
    UK Yusuf DOGE will prat around and then get to the same point that Musk DOGE has reached: huge amounts of £ are spent on welfare, pensions, and in UK case, social and health care. Yes you can close down overseas aid but that doesn't cut the mustard on the big bucks.
    I hope he's not going to start waving a chainsaw around.
    Maybe we need a Milei:

    https://en.mercopress.com/2025/06/04/oecd-expects-argentina-to-grow-more-than-other-g20-nations

    According to the biannual Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development's (OECD) 2025 Economic Outlook published Tuesday, Argentina is projected to experience significant economic growth of 5.2% in 2025 and 4.3% in 2026, the highest among Latin American G20 countries and second only to India globally.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,873
    edited June 7
    kinabalu said:

    nico67 said:

    DOGE should be renamed the department for screwing the poor and those who need to use public services .

    DOGE has discovered billions in council tax receipts being wasted on public services. We are putting an end to that! Who needs libraries anyway?
    UK Yusuf DOGE will prat around and then get to the same point that Musk DOGE has reached: huge amounts of £ are spent on welfare, pensions, and in UK case, social and health care. Yes you can close down overseas aid but that doesn't cut the mustard on the big bucks.
    I hope he's not going to start waving a chainsaw around.
    That's labours job currently, the assisted dying bill is the chainsaw and will soon be under nice assesment...keeping you alive costs more than our qualy assessment....shall we inject you now or just let you die. We all know its coming because thats why they stacked the committee and are ramrodding it through with reduced protections
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,888
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Stereodog said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:


    Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died

    The inexorable rise of automotive YouTube killed TG (and his stupid Amazon shit) not Jexit.

    Harry's Garage does reviews way better than TG ever did. Haggard Garage, etc. did the arsing about way better than TG ever did. Whatever your automotive niche fetish is, you can get a far more informed and in-depth version of it on YouTube. The remaining and dwindling audience for TG/GT was lightweight car enthusiasts who don't know what Instant Centre is and don't even own multiple piston ring compressors.

    Disclaimer: never seen a full episode of TG or the stupid Amazon shit but I can still authoritatively disclaim upon them.
    lol

    Top Gear with Clarkson & Co was literally the biggest TV show in the world. Not biggest car show on TV, biggest TV show of any kind. Bought by dozens of countries, with multiple international spin offs, it generated tens of millions for the BBC every year

    Why? Because it wasn’t a car show at all. It was a self satirising comedy about three middle aged men with hobbies and rivalries - and yet a friendship beneath it

    That’s why all the spin offs tried to copy it to the last old geezer detail

    "And on that bombshell, good night!"
    If the BBC wasn’t full of such pathetic Woke wankers, they could have kept Clarkson - and now they’d have a massive hit in Clarkson’s Farm

    But the BBC is full of woke wankers so they didn’t and they haven’t
    I refer the Honourable PBer to the answer given by Mr J Clarkson. The BBC wanted the production office to be based in Scotland. Bureaucracy rather than woke, perhaps.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3QCO0uNNpJk


    Public sector organisations are driven by public policy.
    No public sector organisations are driven by what they want to do and generally manage to find a way to twist the public policy to be what they wanted to do in the first place. This is because public policy is fairly woolly in the first place. For example a public policy could be "reduce inequality".....the two extremes of how to deal with that is from "Execute the bottom decile....to expropriate the wealth of top ten percent and jail them".....both satisfy the public policy.

    The last people that should be trusted to enact public policy is public sector organisations. It is part of why we are in this situation. Instead policy makes need to tell them this is what we want, these are acceptable ways to achieve it
    Your last sentence is entirely correct but you're ire is in the wrong place. I've worked around senior civil servants for years and in that time I'm utterly convinced that they carry out the wishes of ministers with diligence and competence. The problem is that ministers refuse to make decisions and choices because to make choices is to annoy a section of the electorate. Axing the Winter Fuel Allowance is a classic example. Axing it for anyone not in receipt of other benefits is a clear decision that Civil Servants can and did carry out efficiently. Reinstating but also telling the DWP that they still need to cut spending on pensioners whilst keeping the triple lock in place is a ministerial fudge that will yield bad results.
    I too have worked on projects for the civil service, the first I worked on was they wanted to show that public transport was both cheaper and took less time than using a car. DFT project, we were a private sector company they employed. They were told in the first meeting their project would show nothing of the kind. They still insisted it would despite us being experts and then spent 7 million to create a system that showed exactly what we suggested it would which was that mostly car travel was quicker and cheaper than public transport.

    If they had listened they would have saved 7 million, they were responding to the policy get more people using public transport.

    Sorry the civil service needs a lot more oversight it wastes money in the same way sailors spend on dockside hookers
    Another project I worked on was for the nhs, replacing pagers with something more useful. We wrote an app that worked on a cheap android, not just a phone number to ring but info about what the emergency was etc....trialled was loved. The idea was the phone was given out at shift start...sign in....sign out hand phone back for reissue.

    Trial successful but wouldn't adopt it till we made an iphone version.....result phones cost min of 30 times more and half of them mysteriously vanished over the first year and had to be replaced.....far from it for me to suggest that some nhs staff were thinking hey free i phone for me
    I've not had a pager for 15 years. We just use our own phones and switchboard connects.

    No need to issue work phones at all.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122
    England playing with the penetrative power of a balloon
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,198
    kinabalu said:

    nico67 said:

    DOGE should be renamed the department for screwing the poor and those who need to use public services .

    DOGE has discovered billions in council tax receipts being wasted on public services. We are putting an end to that! Who needs libraries anyway?
    UK Yusuf DOGE will prat around and then get to the same point that Musk DOGE has reached: huge amounts of £ are spent on welfare, pensions, and in UK case, social and health care. Yes you can close down overseas aid but that doesn't cut the mustard on the big bucks.
    I hope he's not going to start waving a chainsaw around.
    Doubt it. That kind of weird exhibitionist behaviour doesn't travel well to Britain.

    If I was Yusuf I would wave around a slide rule and say I going to run this over every department and its costs.

    No one under 55 will get the allusion but then no one under 55 other than the 18 year olds will vote Reform anyway.
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