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Apologising for the Liz Truss mishanter – politicalbetting.com

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  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122
    edited June 7
    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Site notice.

    There's far too much abuse on PB directed towards other posters recently, so I am going to nip this in the bud from now on.

    No swearing at other PBers, including asterisked out words and no such comments as telling others to have a wank.

    The spam trap will be updated shortly, so if you get banned automatically you have been warned.

    PB is a place for robust discussions but not being abusive towards each other.

    Genuine q - is swearing in general allowed? I like a good swear word now and again (obviously not at any of the good burghers but for expressive reasons)
    Most swear words are allowed except the C word but the

    1) The swearing must not be directed at other PBers

    2) Use of the swear words should be rare.
    Thank you.
    For example, say when Nicola Sturgeon was arrested, you could use swear words to describe the situation but not when disagreeing with a fellow PBer.
    It feels like you're now using my innocent question to further your misanthropy. Surely some mistake?
    In short, don't swear/be abusive towards other PBers, that's what I am aiming for.
    Hmm. You will have to define “be abusive”

    I agree with a swear word ban, as I’ve said, but if we’re not allowed to call each other “a funny little freakaloid with a face like a mandrill’s arse” then the site will get very dull, very quickly

    It will just be @foxy and the like trotting out centrist Dad opinions in the voice of Adrian Chiles, for the rest of cosmic time
    So for the time being swear words directed towards each other is banned, so calling somebody a twat is a no no, so is telling them to have a wank.

    However your suggestion would be fine.
    It’s still a minefield and will cramp debate. But, you’re the mod
    Truthfully it's only a minefield to those who tend to abuse. None of us except perhaps the mods choose what other people say on this site but it determines our experience when we engage with it.
    Abuse is a very obvious thing and pretty easy on here to just walk away from or defuse with humour or even kindness. Its sneering I find worse, posters who look down their nose at what you've postulated or posted because it doesn't meet their ideas and much worse when they decide that you've only posted it because they've pigeon holed you In some imagined group or other 'lefty' 'pb tory' etc etc.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,259

    viewcode said:

    Googles "mishanter". Oh. "A mishap or misadventure". An interesting new word. How is it pronounced please? Is it mish-anter or miss-hanter?

    Mish-anter.
    I was wondering about that. Coming late to the site this morning I was debating whether to scan back and see if anyone had asked the questions, assume someone had and politely keep quiet or jump with with both boots and inquire.

    Whence does the word originate. please?
    It's a Scottish word.
    It's a good one. I like it almost as much as stramash, for a big row.
    I have also used stramash in a header.

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/03/12/a-hollow-victory-for-the-hollow-crown/
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,257
    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Site notice.

    There's far too much abuse on PB directed towards other posters recently, so I am going to nip this in the bud from now on.

    No swearing at other PBers, including asterisked out words and no such comments as telling others to have a wank.

    The spam trap will be updated shortly, so if you get banned automatically you have been warned.

    PB is a place for robust discussions but not being abusive towards each other.

    Genuine q - is swearing in general allowed? I like a good swear word now and again (obviously not at any of the good burghers but for expressive reasons)
    Most swear words are allowed except the C word but the

    1) The swearing must not be directed at other PBers

    2) Use of the swear words should be rare.
    As an inveterate cusser I find myself oddly in agreement with this

    There is too much swearing, generally. In life, on screen, all around

    I noticed this as I was watching Seth Rogan’s otherwise-brilliant comedy The Stage. Every tenth word - or so it feels - is either F or F-ing. That may be how some Hollywood insiders talk, but the overall effect is numbing, and coarsening. It also dilutes the impact of a good F bomb, well aimed

    A ban on these words will force PBers to be more verbally inventive. Someone should tell Seth Rogan the same
    I try not to swear here for long periods and then I get grumpy and it comes out. It's very coarse.
    Swearing can be useful. eg it’s a proven fact that swearing when you’ve hurt yourself lessens the pain. Mad but true. And a nicely targeted sweary insult can be both funny and effective

    But generally we swear too much (me definitely included). A prohibition is healthy

    +++++

    Swearing as an analgesic:

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2009/jul/12/swearing-pain-scientific-research-keele

    “A 2009 study from Keele University found that people who swore during a cold-water immersion test could keep their hand in icy water 50% longer than those who used neutral words.”
    But did they control for correlation between toughness and propensity to swear?
    F--- and C--- are like God Bless You in the Navy (and even more so in the Royal Marines where I finished my career). I don't even know I'm saying them most of the time. Mrs DA reckons it doesn't grate or offend as much because of RP.
    Different accents do indeed make swearing come across in different ways - I sound like King Charles’ posher relative and I swear like a navvie and nobody bats an eyelid however I imagine if I had a cockney or Essex or scouse accent my C’s and F’s wouldn’t be so cherished.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,668

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Politics is about passion and emotion as much as it is about reason and argument yet some of the personal animosity towards the likes of Starmer, Sunak and indeed almost every Prime Minister is beyond reason. You may not agree with what they do or say but they aren’t your personal emotional punchbag.

    Neither, to be blunt, are the other groups routinely vilified on here such as migrants and public sector pensioners. It’s easy to mouth off at a group (or a race or a creed) but harder when it’s individuals.

    Those, for example, advocating cuts to public services may not be the users of the service themselves or know anyone who uses the particular service but that doesn’t make the service any less vital to those who do use it.

    Agreed and it is often seen in the use of the word 'hate' towards politicians

    I do not hate any politician, indeed I do not hate anyone, but disagree and dislike most certainly and have a real frustration with the inabilility of most every politician to speak honestly and truthfully
    Same here - I’ve never known a Prime Minister I’ve actively supported in my entire adult life but I’ve never felt as strongly about any of them as some on here. True, I may have wanted them to be defeated and humiliated at the ballot box but never any personal harm.

    As for honesty, I’m afraid we, the voters, have to take a share of the responsibility for the inability of politicians to be “honest and truthful”.

    The electorate don’t like being told they are wrong even when they are and don’t like being told things they don’t want to hear. Bad news travels badly - no one likes to hear negative things about themselves or how they live or what they think.

    Much easier to tell people what they want to hear - much easier to blame someone else especially those who can’t easily respond.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,999
    Given she is more popular with Reform than Tory voters now I would not be surprised to see Liz Truss defect to Reform in due course. Which most Tories would not be too unhappy with
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,126
    boulay said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Site notice.

    There's far too much abuse on PB directed towards other posters recently, so I am going to nip this in the bud from now on.

    No swearing at other PBers, including asterisked out words and no such comments as telling others to have a wank.

    The spam trap will be updated shortly, so if you get banned automatically you have been warned.

    PB is a place for robust discussions but not being abusive towards each other.

    Genuine q - is swearing in general allowed? I like a good swear word now and again (obviously not at any of the good burghers but for expressive reasons)
    Most swear words are allowed except the C word but the

    1) The swearing must not be directed at other PBers

    2) Use of the swear words should be rare.
    As an inveterate cusser I find myself oddly in agreement with this

    There is too much swearing, generally. In life, on screen, all around

    I noticed this as I was watching Seth Rogan’s otherwise-brilliant comedy The Stage. Every tenth word - or so it feels - is either F or F-ing. That may be how some Hollywood insiders talk, but the overall effect is numbing, and coarsening. It also dilutes the impact of a good F bomb, well aimed

    A ban on these words will force PBers to be more verbally inventive. Someone should tell Seth Rogan the same
    I try not to swear here for long periods and then I get grumpy and it comes out. It's very coarse.
    Swearing can be useful. eg it’s a proven fact that swearing when you’ve hurt yourself lessens the pain. Mad but true. And a nicely targeted sweary insult can be both funny and effective

    But generally we swear too much (me definitely included). A prohibition is healthy

    +++++

    Swearing as an analgesic:

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2009/jul/12/swearing-pain-scientific-research-keele

    “A 2009 study from Keele University found that people who swore during a cold-water immersion test could keep their hand in icy water 50% longer than those who used neutral words.”
    But did they control for correlation between toughness and propensity to swear?
    F--- and C--- are like God Bless You in the Navy (and even more so in the Royal Marines where I finished my career). I don't even know I'm saying them most of the time. Mrs DA reckons it doesn't grate or offend as much because of RP.
    Different accents do indeed make swearing come across in different ways - I sound like King Charles’ posher relative and I swear like a navvie and nobody bats an eyelid however I imagine if I had a cockney or Essex or scouse accent my C’s and F’s wouldn’t be so cherished.
    It always used to be said that the upper-class and working-class swore the most, and bonded over that. I don't know if that is any longer true.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,951

    viewcode said:

    Googles "mishanter". Oh. "A mishap or misadventure". An interesting new word. How is it pronounced please? Is it mish-anter or miss-hanter?

    Mish-anter.
    I was wondering about that. Coming late to the site this morning I was debating whether to scan back and see if anyone had asked the questions, assume someone had and politely keep quiet or jump with with both boots and inquire.

    Whence does the word originate. please?
    It's a Scottish word.
    Thank you.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,629
    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Site notice.

    There's far too much abuse on PB directed towards other posters recently, so I am going to nip this in the bud from now on.

    No swearing at other PBers, including asterisked out words and no such comments as telling others to have a wank.

    The spam trap will be updated shortly, so if you get banned automatically you have been warned.

    PB is a place for robust discussions but not being abusive towards each other.

    Genuine q - is swearing in general allowed? I like a good swear word now and again (obviously not at any of the good burghers but for expressive reasons)
    Most swear words are allowed except the C word but the

    1) The swearing must not be directed at other PBers

    2) Use of the swear words should be rare.
    As an inveterate cusser I find myself oddly in agreement with this

    There is too much swearing, generally. In life, on screen, all around

    I noticed this as I was watching Seth Rogan’s otherwise-brilliant comedy The Stage. Every tenth word - or so it feels - is either F or F-ing. That may be how some Hollywood insiders talk, but the overall effect is numbing, and coarsening. It also dilutes the impact of a good F bomb, well aimed

    A ban on these words will force PBers to be more verbally inventive. Someone should tell Seth Rogan the same
    I try not to swear here for long periods and then I get grumpy and it comes out. It's very coarse.
    Swearing can be useful. eg it’s a proven fact that swearing when you’ve hurt yourself lessens the pain. Mad but true. And a nicely targeted sweary insult can be both funny and effective

    But generally we swear too much (me definitely included). A prohibition is healthy

    +++++

    Swearing as an analgesic:

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2009/jul/12/swearing-pain-scientific-research-keele

    “A 2009 study from Keele University found that people who swore during a cold-water immersion test could keep their hand in icy water 50% longer than those who used neutral words.”
    But did they control for correlation between toughness and propensity to swear?
    F--- and C--- are like God Bless You in the Navy (and even more so in the Royal Marines where I finished my career). I don't even know I'm saying them most of the time. Mrs DA reckons it doesn't grate or offend as much because of RP.
    Swearing's interesting. It can work or not work, offend or not offend, amuse or sound forced and crass, depending on who it is, the context, the delivery, and yes the voice itself. There's also a class angle. Upper class folk are more insouciant. More likely to have their feet up on a desk. More likely to walk around half naked. More likely to swear.

    Upbringing is key too. Eg our house was a swear free zone as kids. Absolutely verboten. You'd get a dad-slap if you did it. That sticks. Me and my siblings, all these years later, swear less than the average as a result, and when together not at all. In general I still find it an effort to swear, but I can manage it. Sometimes, when it feels right, I let out a gobfull.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,020
    Swearing anecdotes:

    The first time I heard one of my colleagues swear was over a year after I started working with them. So I knew that they must have been really pissed off with something or someone.

    (Not me!)

    Meanwhile, a former colleague would swear so much in the office that an email was circulated round the team advising us to tone down our language.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,696
    Dura_Ace said:

    It was my psychiatrist who told me to run for the parish council. She said it teaches you a lot about yourself, makes you come to terms with your limitations and makes you think about how you relate to other people. It really worked and she was entirely right. Being an MP must be that x 1000.

    I am a pretty bad council member though because I don't take any of it remotely seriously. We recently had to have official photos taken. I insisted on wearing an AliExpress wig that was an unkempt blonde mullet with TERF bangs.

    Yes and no. There are half a dozen ways to be an MP, and some of them are pretty much dictated by the marginality of your seat. I was very, very hands-on with personal issues that constituents raised, and reckoned I could solve roughly half of the problems that people raised - by contrast, I suspect Nigel Farage doesn't bother, as he's too busy with national issues. The effect was great in electoral terms (compare the Broxtowe and national results in 1992 and 2010, with the largely simlar national results) but a largely missed opportunity in terms of Parliamentary impact. Having a normally Conservative seat was undoubedly part of the reason, but I'm not sure I could have resisted getting stuck into personal issues even if I'd had an impregnable majority.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,661
    edited June 7
    Andy_JS said:

    What I find disturbing is that for a lot of people it now seems to be normal to use the most vulgar swear words in front of young children. Experienced it at a cricket match last year, the people sitting behind me, and that wasn't the only occasion.

    One of the most disconcerting aspects of modern travel is walking into an apparently posh place - hotel lobby, restaurant, cafe, nice piazza - to find the sound system is blasting out US gangsta rap or UK drill, and so - even as the lovely families with little kids check in to their suite - you are also hearing someone shout about their “motherf*cking hoes” and “n word bitches”

    It’s truly horrible. You find it generally in non anglophone countries so I presume they don’t truly understand the coarseness. But I’ve also encountered it in the English speaking world - the most jarring was the foyer of a 5 star hotel in Washington DC. Not nice

    On the upside, I’ve just realised this is the perfect topic for a Knappers Gazette article. So: ker-fucking-ching
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,646
    HYUFD said:

    Given she is more popular with Reform than Tory voters now I would not be surprised to see Liz Truss defect to Reform in due course. Which most Tories would not be too unhappy with

    The sooner the better
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,123
    We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.

    Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122

    HYUFD said:

    Given she is more popular with Reform than Tory voters now I would not be surprised to see Liz Truss defect to Reform in due course. Which most Tories would not be too unhappy with

    The sooner the better
    They won't take her. Because of the very issue we are discussing. Her public image and profile is so low that you can just park the discussion on her ideas, she is factually a net drag on a party based on voters views of her.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,626

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Site notice.

    There's far too much abuse on PB directed towards other posters recently, so I am going to nip this in the bud from now on.

    No swearing at other PBers, including asterisked out words and no such comments as telling others to have a wank.

    The spam trap will be updated shortly, so if you get banned automatically you have been warned.

    PB is a place for robust discussions but not being abusive towards each other.

    Genuine q - is swearing in general allowed? I like a good swear word now and again (obviously not at any of the good burghers but for expressive reasons)
    Most swear words are allowed except the C word but the

    1) The swearing must not be directed at other PBers

    2) Use of the swear words should be rare.
    As an inveterate cusser I find myself oddly in agreement with this

    There is too much swearing, generally. In life, on screen, all around

    I noticed this as I was watching Seth Rogan’s otherwise-brilliant comedy The Stage. Every tenth word - or so it feels - is either F or F-ing. That may be how some Hollywood insiders talk, but the overall effect is numbing, and coarsening. It also dilutes the impact of a good F bomb, well aimed

    A ban on these words will force PBers to be more verbally inventive. Someone should tell Seth Rogan the same
    Department Q on Netflix is very sweary including plenty of c words. On one level it’s quite representative of Scottish chat (even in Edinburgh) but feels a bit performative at times.
    Famously, Battlestar Galactica was told NOT to use the F word in its scripts. So they literally invented a new four letter F word - “frak”

    It was effective. It gave the script a unique flavour and it avoided the numbing coarseness of endless genuine swearing

    On the other hand, would Succession be as brilliant as it is (or was 😢) without all the swear words? Probably not. But the writers use the words REALLY creatively
    As teenagers we were obsessed with the fact that the robot in Battllestar Galactica used to say "Buga-buga-buga-buga". None of the scriptwriters had obviously ever visited Northen England.
    I think that was Buck Rogers, not Battlestar Galactica.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,661
    MaxPB said:

    We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.

    Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.

    Yes, quite

    There’s a discussion above about “hating politicians”. I agree that hatred is a distressing emotion and generally negative for all, nevertheless if I had to describe my emotions about this government and its leader it would come uncomfortably close to “hatred”

    They are damaging and impoverishing us as a country, a people, and a culture - and they do it quite
    overtly. They barely try to hide it. They clearly despise us - and me - so I despise them right back
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,126

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Site notice.

    There's far too much abuse on PB directed towards other posters recently, so I am going to nip this in the bud from now on.

    No swearing at other PBers, including asterisked out words and no such comments as telling others to have a wank.

    The spam trap will be updated shortly, so if you get banned automatically you have been warned.

    PB is a place for robust discussions but not being abusive towards each other.

    Genuine q - is swearing in general allowed? I like a good swear word now and again (obviously not at any of the good burghers but for expressive reasons)
    Most swear words are allowed except the C word but the

    1) The swearing must not be directed at other PBers

    2) Use of the swear words should be rare.
    As an inveterate cusser I find myself oddly in agreement with this

    There is too much swearing, generally. In life, on screen, all around

    I noticed this as I was watching Seth Rogan’s otherwise-brilliant comedy The Stage. Every tenth word - or so it feels - is either F or F-ing. That may be how some Hollywood insiders talk, but the overall effect is numbing, and coarsening. It also dilutes the impact of a good F bomb, well aimed

    A ban on these words will force PBers to be more verbally inventive. Someone should tell Seth Rogan the same
    Department Q on Netflix is very sweary including plenty of c words. On one level it’s quite representative of Scottish chat (even in Edinburgh) but feels a bit performative at times.
    Famously, Battlestar Galactica was told NOT to use the F word in its scripts. So they literally invented a new four letter F word - “frak”

    It was effective. It gave the script a unique flavour and it avoided the numbing coarseness of endless genuine swearing

    On the other hand, would Succession be as brilliant as it is (or was 😢) without all the swear words? Probably not. But the writers use the words REALLY creatively
    As teenagers we were obsessed with the fact that the robot in Battllestar Galactica used to say "Buga-buga-buga-buga". None of the scriptwriters had obviously ever visited Northen England.
    I think that was Buck Rogers, not Battlestar Galactica.
    Ah yes, maybe you're right. The one with the attractive lady called Wilma.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122
    edited June 7
    Curtice this morning is saying the Tories need to do 2 things before they can take on Farage and they've done one of them
    1) disavow Truss/Minibudget
    2) disavow Biggus Doggus Boris
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,951

    Dura_Ace said:

    It was my psychiatrist who told me to run for the parish council. She said it teaches you a lot about yourself, makes you come to terms with your limitations and makes you think about how you relate to other people. It really worked and she was entirely right. Being an MP must be that x 1000.

    I am a pretty bad council member though because I don't take any of it remotely seriously. We recently had to have official photos taken. I insisted on wearing an AliExpress wig that was an unkempt blonde mullet with TERF bangs.

    Yes and no. There are half a dozen ways to be an MP, and some of them are pretty much dictated by the marginality of your seat. I was very, very hands-on with personal issues that constituents raised, and reckoned I could solve roughly half of the problems that people raised - by contrast, I suspect Nigel Farage doesn't bother, as he's too busy with national issues. The effect was great in electoral terms (compare the Broxtowe and national results in 1992 and 2010, with the largely simlar national results) but a largely missed opportunity in terms of Parliamentary impact. Having a normally Conservative seat was undoubedly part of the reason, but I'm not sure I could have resisted getting stuck into personal issues even if I'd had an impregnable majority.
    Hmm. I've (mostly) lived in fairly safe Conservative seats as an adult and have sometimes felt nervous about contacting 'my' MP about issues which might be party-political. In fact I've only had a problem once when a newly elected Conservative MP told me that my problem, which related to charging people for social care when they had become unable, through illness, to care for themselves, was all due the the Labour Government's actions. I pointed out that issue had been going on much longer than that, at which point he lost interest in my case.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,123
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.

    Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.

    Yes, quite

    There’s a discussion above about “hating politicians”. I agree that hatred is a distressing emotion and generally negative for all, nevertheless if I had to describe my emotions about this government and its leader it would come uncomfortably close to “hatred”

    They are damaging and impoverishing us as a country, a people, and a culture - and they do it quite
    overtly. They barely try to hide it. They clearly despise us - and me - so I despise them right back
    This tax is Labour's revenge on the countryside for voting to leave the EU. It raises a pitiful amount of money but it hurts the families and communities who gave city dwellers a black eye by voting to leave.

    I think this government is among the most contemptible we've had. The Tories were mostly just incompetent, Labour are specifically targeting those people who they don't agree with and destroying family businesses out of spite.

    Hate, despise, loathe are all strong words and yet all of them apply to this government. Honestly, if it's a straight up choice between Labour and Reform I'll probably go out and campaign for Reform. Labour can't be trusted with the economy, immigration or the beautiful countryside. They fail on all three counts.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122

    Dura_Ace said:

    It was my psychiatrist who told me to run for the parish council. She said it teaches you a lot about yourself, makes you come to terms with your limitations and makes you think about how you relate to other people. It really worked and she was entirely right. Being an MP must be that x 1000.

    I am a pretty bad council member though because I don't take any of it remotely seriously. We recently had to have official photos taken. I insisted on wearing an AliExpress wig that was an unkempt blonde mullet with TERF bangs.

    Yes and no. There are half a dozen ways to be an MP, and some of them are pretty much dictated by the marginality of your seat. I was very, very hands-on with personal issues that constituents raised, and reckoned I could solve roughly half of the problems that people raised - by contrast, I suspect Nigel Farage doesn't bother, as he's too busy with national issues. The effect was great in electoral terms (compare the Broxtowe and national results in 1992 and 2010, with the largely simlar national results) but a largely missed opportunity in terms of Parliamentary impact. Having a normally Conservative seat was undoubedly part of the reason, but I'm not sure I could have resisted getting stuck into personal issues even if I'd had an impregnable majority.
    Hmm. I've (mostly) lived in fairly safe Conservative seats as an adult and have sometimes felt nervous about contacting 'my' MP about issues which might be party-political. In fact I've only had a problem once when a newly elected Conservative MP told me that my problem, which related to charging people for social care when they had become unable, through illness, to care for themselves, was all due the the Labour Government's actions. I pointed out that issue had been going on much longer than that, at which point he lost interest in my case.
    My family were many years ago now very nervous about contacting the local MP for help with an issue as they were generally very Tory and the MP was Labour's Dr Ian Gibson (Norwich North). Not that political affiliations ever came into it of course. Dr Gibson was an absolute titan on things for them and his help and intervention got things sorted.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,661
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.

    Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.

    Yes, quite

    There’s a discussion above about “hating politicians”. I agree that hatred is a distressing emotion and generally negative for all, nevertheless if I had to describe my emotions about this government and its leader it would come uncomfortably close to “hatred”

    They are damaging and impoverishing us as a country, a people, and a culture - and they do it quite
    overtly. They barely try to hide it. They clearly despise us - and me - so I despise them right back
    This tax is Labour's revenge on the countryside for voting to leave the EU. It raises a pitiful amount of money but it hurts the families and communities who gave city dwellers a black eye by voting to leave.

    I think this government is among the most contemptible we've had. The Tories were mostly just incompetent, Labour are specifically targeting those people who they don't agree with and destroying family businesses out of spite.

    Hate, despise, loathe are all strong words and yet all of them apply to this government. Honestly, if it's a straight up choice between Labour and Reform I'll probably go out and campaign for Reform. Labour can't be trusted with the economy, immigration or the beautiful countryside. They fail on all three counts.
    Yup. That’s where I am

    I don’t actively “like” much about Reform. Farage might easily be terrible as PM. Their policies are incoherent as much as they exist

    And yet, right now I actively support them and will definitely vote for them - as things stand

    Because the Tories don’t deserve another chance for a decade at least, the Lib Dems are completely laughable, and Labour - Labour are the worst of all. Detestable, inept, venal and repulsive
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,874

    Dura_Ace said:

    It was my psychiatrist who told me to run for the parish council. She said it teaches you a lot about yourself, makes you come to terms with your limitations and makes you think about how you relate to other people. It really worked and she was entirely right. Being an MP must be that x 1000.

    I am a pretty bad council member though because I don't take any of it remotely seriously. We recently had to have official photos taken. I insisted on wearing an AliExpress wig that was an unkempt blonde mullet with TERF bangs.

    Yes and no. There are half a dozen ways to be an MP, and some of them are pretty much dictated by the marginality of your seat. I was very, very hands-on with personal issues that constituents raised, and reckoned I could solve roughly half of the problems that people raised - by contrast, I suspect Nigel Farage doesn't bother, as he's too busy with national issues. The effect was great in electoral terms (compare the Broxtowe and national results in 1992 and 2010, with the largely simlar national results) but a largely missed opportunity in terms of Parliamentary impact. Having a normally Conservative seat was undoubedly part of the reason, but I'm not sure I could have resisted getting stuck into personal issues even if I'd had an impregnable majority.
    Hmm. I've (mostly) lived in fairly safe Conservative seats as an adult and have sometimes felt nervous about contacting 'my' MP about issues which might be party-political. In fact I've only had a problem once when a newly elected Conservative MP told me that my problem, which related to charging people for social care when they had become unable, through illness, to care for themselves, was all due the the Labour Government's actions. I pointed out that issue had been going on much longer than that, at which point he lost interest in my case.
    My family were many years ago now very nervous about contacting the local MP for help with an issue as they were generally very Tory and the MP was Labour's Dr Ian Gibson (Norwich North). Not that political affiliations ever came into it of course. Dr Gibson was an absolute titan on things for them and his help and intervention got things sorted.
    Memories. My late mother was Gibson's secretary for a while, when he was at UEA, before being an MP. She reckoned he was the best, kindest boss ever, despite not sharing his politics.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122
    edited June 7
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.

    Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.

    Yes, quite

    There’s a discussion above about “hating politicians”. I agree that hatred is a distressing emotion and generally negative for all, nevertheless if I had to describe my emotions about this government and its leader it would come uncomfortably close to “hatred”

    They are damaging and impoverishing us as a country, a people, and a culture - and they do it quite
    overtly. They barely try to hide it. They clearly despise us - and me - so I despise them right back
    This tax is Labour's revenge on the countryside for voting to leave the EU. It raises a pitiful amount of money but it hurts the families and communities who gave city dwellers a black eye by voting to leave.

    I think this government is among the most contemptible we've had. The Tories were mostly just incompetent, Labour are specifically targeting those people who they don't agree with and destroying family businesses out of spite.

    Hate, despise, loathe are all strong words and yet all of them apply to this government. Honestly, if it's a straight up choice between Labour and Reform I'll probably go out and campaign for Reform. Labour can't be trusted with the economy, immigration or the beautiful countryside. They fail on all three counts.
    Id vote for pretty much any of the parties that generally stand ahead of this iteration of labour and indeed campaign if it made the difference. I generally mistrust and dislike them anyway but I agree that this version are wilfully destructive, vindictive and hateful
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122

    Dura_Ace said:

    It was my psychiatrist who told me to run for the parish council. She said it teaches you a lot about yourself, makes you come to terms with your limitations and makes you think about how you relate to other people. It really worked and she was entirely right. Being an MP must be that x 1000.

    I am a pretty bad council member though because I don't take any of it remotely seriously. We recently had to have official photos taken. I insisted on wearing an AliExpress wig that was an unkempt blonde mullet with TERF bangs.

    Yes and no. There are half a dozen ways to be an MP, and some of them are pretty much dictated by the marginality of your seat. I was very, very hands-on with personal issues that constituents raised, and reckoned I could solve roughly half of the problems that people raised - by contrast, I suspect Nigel Farage doesn't bother, as he's too busy with national issues. The effect was great in electoral terms (compare the Broxtowe and national results in 1992 and 2010, with the largely simlar national results) but a largely missed opportunity in terms of Parliamentary impact. Having a normally Conservative seat was undoubedly part of the reason, but I'm not sure I could have resisted getting stuck into personal issues even if I'd had an impregnable majority.
    Hmm. I've (mostly) lived in fairly safe Conservative seats as an adult and have sometimes felt nervous about contacting 'my' MP about issues which might be party-political. In fact I've only had a problem once when a newly elected Conservative MP told me that my problem, which related to charging people for social care when they had become unable, through illness, to care for themselves, was all due the the Labour Government's actions. I pointed out that issue had been going on much longer than that, at which point he lost interest in my case.
    My family were many years ago now very nervous about contacting the local MP for help with an issue as they were generally very Tory and the MP was Labour's Dr Ian Gibson (Norwich North). Not that political affiliations ever came into it of course. Dr Gibson was an absolute titan on things for them and his help and intervention got things sorted.
    Memories. My late mother was Gibson's secretary for a while, when he was at UEA, before being an MP. She reckoned he was the best, kindest boss ever, despite not sharing his politics.
    My family became very fond of him and were quite upset when he quit (none of them voted Labour though, lol)
    He seemed a good egg
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,381

    Apologising/disowning the Liz Truss premiership and how she operated, yes.

    I can understand why some Tories are a little bit shy of criticising everything in the budget - even though the "fiscal event" screwed us - because they fear that'd undermine the argument to lower taxation. It did at least drop the H&SC levy, and did indicate a belief in most taxes coming down.

    But that budget screwed the 40p rate coming back for a generation.

    I would love to see the 45p rate abolished.

    Just after the 83p rate and other rates higher than 45p have been abolished first.

    Nobody should ever face a real marginal tax rate of more than 50%, it should be unacceptable for someone not to keep at least half of what they're earning as a matter of principle.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,869
    Andy_JS said:

    What I find disturbing is that for a lot of people it now seems to be normal to use the most vulgar swear words in front of young children. Experienced it at a cricket match last year, the people sitting behind me, and that wasn't the only occasion.

    I once heard a woman in the supermarket call her infant son, “you little sack of shit.”
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,869
    HYUFD said:

    Given she is more popular with Reform than Tory voters now I would not be surprised to see Liz Truss defect to Reform in due course. Which most Tories would not be too unhappy with

    I can’t see why Reform would want her.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,874
    Sean_F said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What I find disturbing is that for a lot of people it now seems to be normal to use the most vulgar swear words in front of young children. Experienced it at a cricket match last year, the people sitting behind me, and that wasn't the only occasion.

    I once heard a woman in the supermarket call her infant son, “you little sack of shit.”
    Boris Johnson's mum?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given she is more popular with Reform than Tory voters now I would not be surprised to see Liz Truss defect to Reform in due course. Which most Tories would not be too unhappy with

    I can’t see why Reform would want her.
    They wouldn't. Her public image is a net drag. That's all they'll look at before saying 'no'
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,661
    MaxPB said:

    We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.

    Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.

    The success of Clarkson’s Farm concludes another very different argument

    Around the time Clarkson got kicked off Top Gear we had a lot of debate about it. I remember dear @Roger saying, as cluelessly as ever, “these comedians are two a penny, the BBC is brilliant at renewing shows, he’s no loss, the show will come back better than ever”

    Oops. Several of us told him at the time that Clarkson was irreplaceable but he wasn’t having it

    Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,572
    edited June 7
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What I find disturbing is that for a lot of people it now seems to be normal to use the most vulgar swear words in front of young children. Experienced it at a cricket match last year, the people sitting behind me, and that wasn't the only occasion.

    One of the most disconcerting aspects of modern travel is walking into an apparently posh place - hotel lobby, restaurant, cafe, nice piazza - to find the sound system is blasting out US gangsta rap or UK drill, and so - even as the lovely families with little kids check in to their suite - you are also hearing someone shout about their “motherf*cking hoes” and “n word bitches”

    It’s truly horrible. You find it generally in non anglophone countries so I presume they don’t truly understand the coarseness. But I’ve also encountered it in the English speaking world - the most jarring was the foyer of a 5 star hotel in Washington DC. Not nice

    On the upside, I’ve just realised this is the perfect topic for a Knappers Gazette article. So: ker-fucking-ching
    That might be your first article I'd agree with.

    Even on a cruise ship with an average age of about 97 you're regaled with gangsta rap while you sup your cappuccino and attempt the simple-sudoku-for-oldies of a morning.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,381
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What I find disturbing is that for a lot of people it now seems to be normal to use the most vulgar swear words in front of young children. Experienced it at a cricket match last year, the people sitting behind me, and that wasn't the only occasion.

    One of the most disconcerting aspects of modern travel is walking into an apparently posh place - hotel lobby, restaurant, cafe, nice piazza - to find the sound system is blasting out US gangsta rap or UK drill, and so - even as the lovely families with little kids check in to their suite - you are also hearing someone shout about their “motherf*cking hoes” and “n word bitches”

    It’s truly horrible. You find it generally in non anglophone countries so I presume they don’t truly understand the coarseness. But I’ve also encountered it in the English speaking world - the most jarring was the foyer of a 5 star hotel in Washington DC. Not nice

    On the upside, I’ve just realised this is the perfect topic for a Knappers Gazette article. So: ker-fucking-ching
    Old man complains about the music the kids listen to these days.

    Have you considered pitching that to the Spectator, sounds perfect for them?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,888
    edited June 7
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.

    Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.

    Yes, quite

    There’s a discussion above about “hating politicians”. I agree that hatred is a distressing emotion and generally negative for all, nevertheless if I had to describe my emotions about this government and its leader it would come uncomfortably close to “hatred”

    They are damaging and impoverishing us as a country, a people, and a culture - and they do it quite
    overtly. They barely try to hide it. They clearly despise us - and me - so I despise them right back
    This tax is Labour's revenge on the countryside for voting to leave the EU. It raises a pitiful amount of money but it hurts the families and communities who gave city dwellers a black eye by voting to leave.

    I think this government is among the most contemptible we've had. The Tories were mostly just incompetent, Labour are specifically targeting those people who they don't agree with and destroying family businesses out of spite.

    Hate, despise, loathe are all strong words and yet all of them apply to this government. Honestly, if it's a straight up choice between Labour and Reform I'll probably go out and campaign for Reform. Labour can't be trusted with the economy, immigration or the beautiful countryside. They fail on all three counts.
    The problem of tax dodging by buying agricultural land is a genuine issue. In 2023 the majority of agricultural land transfers were to non-farmers. As well as the lost revenue, this distorts the agricultural land market to the dis-benefit of genuine farmers.

    There were a number of better ways to close the loophole discussed on here, including making the IHT deferred and payable if the land is sold within 10 or 25 years, being waived after that date. My own suggestion was to allow the agricultural IHT exemption only to estates where the deceased could demonstrate that their income was 50% or more from agricultural earnings. I am sure there are other possibilities that would close the loophole being used by Clarkson etc al, but spare genuine family farmers with assets of more than £3 million.

    Frankly, I don't think it will shift many votes as it stands as few millionaire land owners were voting Labour anyway, let alone unseat Starmer.

    Apologies to @TSE for my language at the tail end of last thread, but there are worse things in that thread than a few swear words.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,449

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Site notice.

    There's far too much abuse on PB directed towards other posters recently, so I am going to nip this in the bud from now on.

    No swearing at other PBers, including asterisked out words and no such comments as telling others to have a wank.

    The spam trap will be updated shortly, so if you get banned automatically you have been warned.

    PB is a place for robust discussions but not being abusive towards each other.

    Genuine q - is swearing in general allowed? I like a good swear word now and again (obviously not at any of the good burghers but for expressive reasons)
    Most swear words are allowed except the C word but the

    1) The swearing must not be directed at other PBers

    2) Use of the swear words should be rare.
    As an inveterate cusser I find myself oddly in agreement with this

    There is too much swearing, generally. In life, on screen, all around

    I noticed this as I was watching Seth Rogan’s otherwise-brilliant comedy The Stage. Every tenth word - or so it feels - is either F or F-ing. That may be how some Hollywood insiders talk, but the overall effect is numbing, and coarsening. It also dilutes the impact of a good F bomb, well aimed

    A ban on these words will force PBers to be more verbally inventive. Someone should tell Seth Rogan the same
    Department Q on Netflix is very sweary including plenty of c words. On one level it’s quite representative of Scottish chat (even in Edinburgh) but feels a bit performative at times.
    Famously, Battlestar Galactica was told NOT to use the F word in its scripts. So they literally invented a new four letter F word - “frak”

    It was effective. It gave the script a unique flavour and it avoided the numbing coarseness of endless genuine swearing

    On the other hand, would Succession be as brilliant as it is (or was 😢) without all the swear words? Probably not. But the writers use the words REALLY creatively
    As teenagers we were obsessed with the fact that the robot in Battllestar Galactica used to say "Buga-buga-buga-buga". None of the scriptwriters had obviously ever visited Northen England.
    I think that was Buck Rogers, not Battlestar Galactica.
    Ah yes, maybe you're right. The one with the attractive lady called Wilma.
    "COLONEL Deering to you!"
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,572
    Inappropriate and unnecessary musak has to be my number one hate right now.

    Why the on earth do these restaurants, cafes, hotels, lifts even FFS, do it?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,449
    Sean_F said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What I find disturbing is that for a lot of people it now seems to be normal to use the most vulgar swear words in front of young children. Experienced it at a cricket match last year, the people sitting behind me, and that wasn't the only occasion.

    I once heard a woman in the supermarket call her infant son, “you little sack of shit.”
    Mum regularly calls me a "50 year-old man-child" (don't ask!).

    But I find that grossly unfair - I don't actually turn 50 till later in the year.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,449

    Inappropriate and unnecessary musak has to be my number one hate right now.

    Why the on earth do these restaurants, cafes, hotels, lifts even FFS, do it?

    The B & Q a little way down the Eastern Avenue from me frequently plays a reasonably good selection of 80s music, so it's not all bad!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,661

    Inappropriate and unnecessary musak has to be my number one hate right now.

    Why the on earth do these restaurants, cafes, hotels, lifts even FFS, do it?

    The worst recent example I’ve seen was in - of all places - Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan

    They have a pleasant city centre of parks and squares complete with little kiddy trains for families to hop in, and amuse the little ones

    Only downer, the trains blast out foul mouthed drill at 100 decibels. So jarring. And it echoes across the lovely park
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,501

    Inappropriate and unnecessary musak has to be my number one hate right now.

    Why the on earth do these restaurants, cafes, hotels, lifts even FFS, do it?

    And often it’s way too loud.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.

    Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.

    The success of Clarkson’s Farm concludes another very different argument

    Around the time Clarkson got kicked off Top Gear we had a lot of debate about it. I remember dear @Roger saying, as cluelessly as ever, “these comedians are two a penny, the BBC is brilliant at renewing shows, he’s no loss, the show will come back better than ever”

    Oops. Several of us told him at the time that Clarkson was irreplaceable but he wasn’t having it

    Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
    In very general terms people who don't get Clarksons appeal don't get British Society and people
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,478
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    I stayed in a Travellodge last night after a dinner in Edinburgh. It was clean, tidy, reasonably spacious and boring. There is simply no comparison between a holiday and living in homeless accommodation with no place to call your own. I have nothing but sympathy for those stuck in such circumstances for months and I abhor the underlying racism of those who do.

    None of which means that I don’t still think that they should not be here at all. We have created an incredibly strong pull to the shitholes of the world. Make it here and we will protect you, feed you, house you and give you opportunities for a new and better life in a country that broadly still supports the rule of law.

    And we are shocked when they come in their tens of thousands. We need to get real and remove the pull factors. Our hypocrisy about how generous we are whilst resenting every penny spent is just pathetic.

    I doubt anyone on here, of any perspective, would seriously disagree with this. Many asylum seekers are - by definition - genuinely desperate people seeking a better life instead of a terrible life

    But - it must be faced - an awful lot are liars. They destroy their own documents so we can’t truly identify and then deport them. Also, they don’t seek asylum in Greece or Belgium - they come all the way to Britain. Why? Because often they are economic migrants, not asylum seekers at all. True asylum seekers would claim asylum in the first safe country

    Then we have a very small minority who are actively hostile and malign. The relative numbers are tiny - but they exist and they seek to harm us


    It’s a mess. It is unsustainable. The answer is to abandon the outdated concept of asylum and withdraw from the ECHR. Make it illegal to cross the channel in small boats

    Then we choose as a country who we will protect. We can’t shelter the world so let’s stop pretending we can - it’s doing enormous damage to the UK

    We can still do good. We can, for instance, shelter Hong Kongers and Ukrainians. And others in the future
    That is what I have been advocating for some considerable time. The present policy is guaranteed to fail and Starmer and everyone else knows it. If we really want different results we need to do different things.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,661

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What I find disturbing is that for a lot of people it now seems to be normal to use the most vulgar swear words in front of young children. Experienced it at a cricket match last year, the people sitting behind me, and that wasn't the only occasion.

    One of the most disconcerting aspects of modern travel is walking into an apparently posh place - hotel lobby, restaurant, cafe, nice piazza - to find the sound system is blasting out US gangsta rap or UK drill, and so - even as the lovely families with little kids check in to their suite - you are also hearing someone shout about their “motherf*cking hoes” and “n word bitches”

    It’s truly horrible. You find it generally in non anglophone countries so I presume they don’t truly understand the coarseness. But I’ve also encountered it in the English speaking world - the most jarring was the foyer of a 5 star hotel in Washington DC. Not nice

    On the upside, I’ve just realised this is the perfect topic for a Knappers Gazette article. So: ker-fucking-ching
    Old man complains about the music the kids listen to these days.

    Have you considered pitching that to the Spectator, sounds perfect for them?
    The first person to notice this - and point it out to me in anger - was my then wife the 21 year old corbynite. Years ago. She was intensely distressed because she’d got a temporary job in a kiddies’ play centre - and that music was blasting out to loads of children. Disgusting sexist gibberish loaded with N words and F words and replete with references to guns and violence

    She thought it was utterly inappropriate and damaging for the children and she was entirely correct
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122
    Farage is back in full control of Reform, Zia is out as director. So, not 'workload pressure' then Nige?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,381
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What I find disturbing is that for a lot of people it now seems to be normal to use the most vulgar swear words in front of young children. Experienced it at a cricket match last year, the people sitting behind me, and that wasn't the only occasion.

    One of the most disconcerting aspects of modern travel is walking into an apparently posh place - hotel lobby, restaurant, cafe, nice piazza - to find the sound system is blasting out US gangsta rap or UK drill, and so - even as the lovely families with little kids check in to their suite - you are also hearing someone shout about their “motherf*cking hoes” and “n word bitches”

    It’s truly horrible. You find it generally in non anglophone countries so I presume they don’t truly understand the coarseness. But I’ve also encountered it in the English speaking world - the most jarring was the foyer of a 5 star hotel in Washington DC. Not nice

    On the upside, I’ve just realised this is the perfect topic for a Knappers Gazette article. So: ker-fucking-ching
    Old man complains about the music the kids listen to these days.

    Have you considered pitching that to the Spectator, sounds perfect for them?
    The first person to notice this - and point it out to me in anger - was my then wife the 21 year old corbynite. Years ago. She was intensely distressed because she’d got a temporary job in a kiddies’ play centre - and that music was blasting out to loads of children. Disgusting sexist gibberish loaded with N words and F words and replete with references to guns and violence

    She thought it was utterly inappropriate and damaging for the children and she was entirely correct
    I was joking to wind you up, but sounds like you need some better play centres then.

    Anywhere I've ever taken my kids has always had children-suitable music playing. Its not difficult to select an age rating for music playlists.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,513
    Leon said:


    Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died

    The inexorable rise of automotive YouTube killed TG (and his stupid Amazon shit) not Jexit.

    Harry's Garage does reviews way better than TG ever did. Haggard Garage, etc. did the arsing about way better than TG ever did. Whatever your automotive niche fetish is, you can get a far more informed and in-depth version of it on YouTube. The remaining and dwindling audience for TG/GT was lightweight car enthusiasts who don't know what Instant Centre is and don't even own multiple piston ring compressors.

    Disclaimer: never seen a full episode of TG or the stupid Amazon shit but I can still authoritatively disclaim upon them.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,593
    Reform is not a proper political party . Can Farage be removed as leader ?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122
    nico67 said:

    Reform is not a proper political party . Can Farage be removed as leader ?

    Not without creative law ignoring
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,208
    nico67 said:

    Reform is not a proper political party . Can Farage be removed as leader ?

    Why would they want to? He has a far better brand than the party itself...
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,513

    nico67 said:

    Reform is not a proper political party . Can Farage be removed as leader ?

    Not without creative law ignoring
    Or voting from the rooftop. 🤞
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122
    edited June 7
    nico67 said:

    Reform is not a proper political party . Can Farage be removed as leader ?

    And its definitely not a proper party. If Reform Ltd were bankrupted and Nigel swanned off then there is no chance in a billion the 4 remaining MPs and 800 councillors would form anything coherent. They'd splinter to the winds
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,381
    Dura_Ace said:

    nico67 said:

    Reform is not a proper political party . Can Farage be removed as leader ?

    Not without creative law ignoring
    Or voting from the rooftop. 🤞
    Given his mates, windows seem more likely.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,449
    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:


    Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died

    The inexorable rise of automotive YouTube killed TG (and his stupid Amazon shit) not Jexit.

    Harry's Garage does reviews way better than TG ever did. Haggard Garage, etc. did the arsing about way better than TG ever did. Whatever your automotive niche fetish is, you can get a far more informed and in-depth version of it on YouTube. The remaining and dwindling audience for TG/GT was lightweight car enthusiasts who don't know what Instant Centre is and don't even own multiple piston ring compressors.

    Disclaimer: never seen a full episode of TG or the stupid Amazon shit but I can still authoritatively disclaim upon them.
    lol

    Top Gear with Clarkson & Co was literally the biggest TV show in the world. Not biggest car show on TV, biggest TV show of any kind. Bought by dozens of countries, with multiple international spin offs, it generated tens of millions for the BBC every year

    Why? Because it wasn’t a car show at all. It was a self satirising comedy about three middle aged men with hobbies and rivalries - and yet a friendship beneath it

    That’s why all the spin offs tried to copy it to the last old geezer detail

    "And on that bombshell, good night!"
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,456
    "The government is struggling to cut the amount of foreign aid it spends on hotel bills for asylum seekers in the UK, the BBC has learnt.

    New figures released quietly by ministers in recent days show the Home Office plans to spend £2.2bn of overseas development assistance (ODA) this financial year - that is only marginally less than the £2.3bn it spent in 2024/25.

    The money is largely used to cover the accommodation costs of thousands of asylum seekers who have recently arrived in the UK.

    The Home Office said it was committed to ending asylum hotels and was speeding up asylum decisions to save taxpayers' money."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgmjd8evd0go
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,661

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:


    Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died

    The inexorable rise of automotive YouTube killed TG (and his stupid Amazon shit) not Jexit.

    Harry's Garage does reviews way better than TG ever did. Haggard Garage, etc. did the arsing about way better than TG ever did. Whatever your automotive niche fetish is, you can get a far more informed and in-depth version of it on YouTube. The remaining and dwindling audience for TG/GT was lightweight car enthusiasts who don't know what Instant Centre is and don't even own multiple piston ring compressors.

    Disclaimer: never seen a full episode of TG or the stupid Amazon shit but I can still authoritatively disclaim upon them.
    lol

    Top Gear with Clarkson & Co was literally the biggest TV show in the world. Not biggest car show on TV, biggest TV show of any kind. Bought by dozens of countries, with multiple international spin offs, it generated tens of millions for the BBC every year

    Why? Because it wasn’t a car show at all. It was a self satirising comedy about three middle aged men with hobbies and rivalries - and yet a friendship beneath it

    That’s why all the spin offs tried to copy it to the last old geezer detail

    "And on that bombshell, good night!"
    If the BBC wasn’t full of such pathetic Woke wankers, they could have kept Clarkson - and now they’d have a massive hit in Clarkson’s Farm

    But the BBC is full of woke wankers so they didn’t and they haven’t
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,198
    edited June 7
    Stablecoin operators hold more short-term US debt securities than large foreign investors such as China. Between them, they bought more than $40bn worth of Treasury bills in 2024.



    Why we should worry about the rise of stablecoins

    https://www.ft.com/content/e5701ff2-d976-451f-9ca2-68cd5f833c1a?accessToken=zwAAAZdKOrmzkdPlcB_y2XZFH9OcomjNX4M8Gg.MEYCIQCn60BlV6PwOFOD7RibB7oi5lqr2ys1dGW9EyJqoi18AAIhAK-wEY3_WxpqszEDApWyDEIxM3-TLPl5cn4KfoPbNlbe&segmentId=e95a9ae7-622c-6235-5f87-51e412b47e97&shareType=enterprise&shareId=b1c12535-a4a4-4dd6-a609-66e31717afc2
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 911

    https://x.com/Telegraph/status/1931278850660409463?s=19

    They say some have great pensions and some have poor pensions
    We at Reform say poor pensions for all!
    Poor pensions, retire later, transfer all your wealth to the spivs

    Wonder why they are waiting until they 'form a government'. They could start cutting the pensions and pay in the authorities that they currently control. Any idea of the reason for the delay apart from it being bullshit?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,667

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.

    Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.

    The success of Clarkson’s Farm concludes another very different argument

    Around the time Clarkson got kicked off Top Gear we had a lot of debate about it. I remember dear @Roger saying, as cluelessly as ever, “these comedians are two a penny, the BBC is brilliant at renewing shows, he’s no loss, the show will come back better than ever”

    Oops. Several of us told him at the time that Clarkson was irreplaceable but he wasn’t having it

    Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
    In very general terms people who don't get Clarksons appeal don't get British Society and people
    In very general terms there is no limit to the home spun nonsense written on PB recently
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,626
    Battlebus said:

    https://x.com/Telegraph/status/1931278850660409463?s=19

    They say some have great pensions and some have poor pensions
    We at Reform say poor pensions for all!
    Poor pensions, retire later, transfer all your wealth to the spivs

    Wonder why they are waiting until they 'form a government'. They could start cutting the pensions and pay in the authorities that they currently control. Any idea of the reason for the delay apart from it being bullshit?
    Populism (right or left) loves to blame someone else. It’s them, over there, with their gold-plated pensions, or immigrants, or Muslims, or Jews, or just all over, generalised, woke.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122
    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.

    Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.

    The success of Clarkson’s Farm concludes another very different argument

    Around the time Clarkson got kicked off Top Gear we had a lot of debate about it. I remember dear @Roger saying, as cluelessly as ever, “these comedians are two a penny, the BBC is brilliant at renewing shows, he’s no loss, the show will come back better than ever”

    Oops. Several of us told him at the time that Clarkson was irreplaceable but he wasn’t having it

    Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
    In very general terms people who don't get Clarksons appeal don't get British Society and people
    In very general terms there is no limit to the home spun nonsense written on PB recently
    Quite
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 911

    Farage is back in full control of Reform, Zia is out as director. So, not 'workload pressure' then Nige?

    There's a new Director though

    https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/16260766/filing-history
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,102
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:


    Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died

    The inexorable rise of automotive YouTube killed TG (and his stupid Amazon shit) not Jexit.

    Harry's Garage does reviews way better than TG ever did. Haggard Garage, etc. did the arsing about way better than TG ever did. Whatever your automotive niche fetish is, you can get a far more informed and in-depth version of it on YouTube. The remaining and dwindling audience for TG/GT was lightweight car enthusiasts who don't know what Instant Centre is and don't even own multiple piston ring compressors.

    Disclaimer: never seen a full episode of TG or the stupid Amazon shit but I can still authoritatively disclaim upon them.
    lol

    Top Gear with Clarkson & Co was literally the biggest TV show in the world. Not biggest car show on TV, biggest TV show of any kind. Bought by dozens of countries, with multiple international spin offs, it generated tens of millions for the BBC every year

    Why? Because it wasn’t a car show at all. It was a self satirising comedy about three middle aged men with hobbies and rivalries - and yet a friendship beneath it

    That’s why all the spin offs tried to copy it to the last old geezer detail

    "And on that bombshell, good night!"
    If the BBC wasn’t full of such pathetic Woke wankers, they could have kept Clarkson - and now they’d have a massive hit in Clarkson’s Farm

    But the BBC is full of woke wankers so they didn’t and they haven’t
    I watched the first Clarkson’s Farm series a few months ago and found it quite entertaining. But I did wonder how much of it was scripted. I say this because the dynamic between Clarkson and the young farmhand bloke seemed almost identical to that Ricky Gervais employs with Karl Pilkington. Seemed they were running with a comedic trope that already had some proven success.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122
    Battlebus said:

    Farage is back in full control of Reform, Zia is out as director. So, not 'workload pressure' then Nige?

    There's a new Director though

    https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/16260766/filing-history
    Excellent, a new boy to fall out with!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,630
    Dura_Ace said:

    tlg86 said:

    Depressing to find out that Simone Biles has these views:

    https://x.com/Simone_Biles/status/1931129527679308054

    SB is fully GOATed and that tweet proves it.
    I've stopped Googling these days. I hope the goating process involved a high level of animal welfare support for the goat in question.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,608

    Inappropriate and unnecessary musak has to be my number one hate right now.

    Why the on earth do these restaurants, cafes, hotels, lifts even FFS, do it?

    The same reason documentary producers put on way too much background music way too loud - it fills what they think are long, uncomfortable silent periods. It never seems to occur to them that a customer spending half an hour in a store or someone sitting at home can listen to whatever music they want any time they want these days.

    The worst one for me was always loud background music in chain bookstores when I wanted to thumb through books to see if I wanted to buy them. Always propelled me to the exit, and then to amazon, at record speed.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,048
    Russia is at war with Britain and US is no longer a reliable ally, UK adviser says

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jun/06/russia-is-at-war-with-uk-and-us-no-longer-reliable-ally
    Russia is at war with Britain, the US is no longer a reliable ally and the UK has to respond by becoming more cohesive and more resilient, according to one of the three authors of the strategic defence review.

    Fiona Hill, from County Durham, became the White House’s chief Russia adviser during Donald Trump’s first term and contributed to the British government’s strategy. She made the remarks in an interview with the Guardian..

    ..“Russia has hardened as an adversary in ways that we probably hadn’t fully anticipated,” Hill said, arguing that Putin saw the Ukraine war as a starting point to Moscow becoming “a dominant military power in all of Europe”.


  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,661

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:


    Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died

    The inexorable rise of automotive YouTube killed TG (and his stupid Amazon shit) not Jexit.

    Harry's Garage does reviews way better than TG ever did. Haggard Garage, etc. did the arsing about way better than TG ever did. Whatever your automotive niche fetish is, you can get a far more informed and in-depth version of it on YouTube. The remaining and dwindling audience for TG/GT was lightweight car enthusiasts who don't know what Instant Centre is and don't even own multiple piston ring compressors.

    Disclaimer: never seen a full episode of TG or the stupid Amazon shit but I can still authoritatively disclaim upon them.
    lol

    Top Gear with Clarkson & Co was literally the biggest TV show in the world. Not biggest car show on TV, biggest TV show of any kind. Bought by dozens of countries, with multiple international spin offs, it generated tens of millions for the BBC every year

    Why? Because it wasn’t a car show at all. It was a self satirising comedy about three middle aged men with hobbies and rivalries - and yet a friendship beneath it

    That’s why all the spin offs tried to copy it to the last old geezer detail

    "And on that bombshell, good night!"
    If the BBC wasn’t full of such pathetic Woke wankers, they could have kept Clarkson - and now they’d have a massive hit in Clarkson’s Farm

    But the BBC is full of woke wankers so they didn’t and they haven’t
    I watched the first Clarkson’s Farm series a few months ago and found it quite entertaining. But I did wonder how much of it was scripted. I say this because the dynamic between Clarkson and the young farmhand bloke seemed almost identical to that Ricky Gervais employs with Karl Pilkington. Seemed they were running with a comedic trope that already had some proven success.
    Of course it’s partly scripted, and partly improv’d - as was Top Gear at its best

    Clarkson’s Farm is not quite as funny as Peak TG - which could be riotously amusing - but it hits harder on its themes. It’s another triumph for JC and a bit sad for the BBC

    And Top Gear WAS funny. The famous “Robin Reliant sequence” is, I submit, some of the funniest TV ever made

    https://youtu.be/QQh56geU0X8?si=EWZ9yS0BvEpLc64D
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,020

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.

    Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.

    The success of Clarkson’s Farm concludes another very different argument

    Around the time Clarkson got kicked off Top Gear we had a lot of debate about it. I remember dear @Roger saying, as cluelessly as ever, “these comedians are two a penny, the BBC is brilliant at renewing shows, he’s no loss, the show will come back better than ever”

    Oops. Several of us told him at the time that Clarkson was irreplaceable but he wasn’t having it

    Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
    In very general terms people who don't get Clarksons appeal don't get British Society and people
    A society full of people who think that Clarkson is anything other than a total arsehole is not a society that I want to be part of.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,661

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.

    Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.

    The success of Clarkson’s Farm concludes another very different argument

    Around the time Clarkson got kicked off Top Gear we had a lot of debate about it. I remember dear @Roger saying, as cluelessly as ever, “these comedians are two a penny, the BBC is brilliant at renewing shows, he’s no loss, the show will come back better than ever”

    Oops. Several of us told him at the time that Clarkson was irreplaceable but he wasn’t having it

    Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
    In very general terms people who don't get Clarksons appeal don't get British Society and people
    A society full of people who think that Clarkson is anything other than a total arsehole is not a society that I want to be part of.
    Watch that Robin Reliant video
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,208

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.

    Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.

    The success of Clarkson’s Farm concludes another very different argument

    Around the time Clarkson got kicked off Top Gear we had a lot of debate about it. I remember dear @Roger saying, as cluelessly as ever, “these comedians are two a penny, the BBC is brilliant at renewing shows, he’s no loss, the show will come back better than ever”

    Oops. Several of us told him at the time that Clarkson was irreplaceable but he wasn’t having it

    Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
    In very general terms people who don't get Clarksons appeal don't get British Society and people
    Totally agree.

    The same could be said for people not getting the appeal of Boris, pre his PMship, as well....

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.

    Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.

    The success of Clarkson’s Farm concludes another very different argument

    Around the time Clarkson got kicked off Top Gear we had a lot of debate about it. I remember dear @Roger saying, as cluelessly as ever, “these comedians are two a penny, the BBC is brilliant at renewing shows, he’s no loss, the show will come back better than ever”

    Oops. Several of us told him at the time that Clarkson was irreplaceable but he wasn’t having it

    Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
    In very general terms people who don't get Clarksons appeal don't get British Society and people
    A society full of people who think that Clarkson is anything other than a total arsehole is not a society that I want to be part of.
    But that is the society you are part of. Not 'full of' (of course) but Clarkson is not some wildly unpopular figure of hate.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,653
    edited June 7
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:


    Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died

    The inexorable rise of automotive YouTube killed TG (and his stupid Amazon shit) not Jexit.

    Harry's Garage does reviews way better than TG ever did. Haggard Garage, etc. did the arsing about way better than TG ever did. Whatever your automotive niche fetish is, you can get a far more informed and in-depth version of it on YouTube. The remaining and dwindling audience for TG/GT was lightweight car enthusiasts who don't know what Instant Centre is and don't even own multiple piston ring compressors.

    Disclaimer: never seen a full episode of TG or the stupid Amazon shit but I can still authoritatively disclaim upon them.
    lol

    Top Gear with Clarkson & Co was literally the biggest TV show in the world. Not biggest car show on TV, biggest TV show of any kind. Bought by dozens of countries, with multiple international spin offs, it generated tens of millions for the BBC every year

    Why? Because it wasn’t a car show at all. It was a self satirising comedy about three middle aged men with hobbies and rivalries - and yet a friendship beneath it

    That’s why all the spin offs tried to copy it to the last old geezer detail

    "And on that bombshell, good night!"
    If the BBC wasn’t full of such pathetic Woke wankers, they could have kept Clarkson - and now they’d have a massive hit in Clarkson’s Farm

    But the BBC is full of woke wankers so they didn’t and they haven’t
    I watched the first Clarkson’s Farm series a few months ago and found it quite entertaining. But I did wonder how much of it was scripted. I say this because the dynamic between Clarkson and the young farmhand bloke seemed almost identical to that Ricky Gervais employs with Karl Pilkington. Seemed they were running with a comedic trope that already had some proven success.
    Of course it’s partly scripted, and partly improv’d - as was Top Gear at its best

    Clarkson’s Farm is not quite as funny as Peak TG - which could be riotously amusing - but it hits harder on its themes. It’s another triumph for JC and a bit sad for the BBC

    And Top Gear WAS funny. The famous “Robin Reliant sequence” is, I submit, some of the funniest TV ever made

    https://youtu.be/QQh56geU0X8?si=EWZ9yS0BvEpLc64D
    The aberration of your despicable blind thread is forgiven. That had me crying with laughter.

    ETA can I have another clip, please? I'm meant to be corralling incompetent exam markers. It makes me want to overturn a Robin Reliant on a busy roundabout.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,126
    I remember when Clarkson was on Who do you think you are.
    He was very demonstratively mean and mocking to his mother on it.
    Family issues there, probably making a psychologically messed-up but intermittently talented man.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,653
    Mortimer said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.

    Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.

    The success of Clarkson’s Farm concludes another very different argument

    Around the time Clarkson got kicked off Top Gear we had a lot of debate about it. I remember dear @Roger saying, as cluelessly as ever, “these comedians are two a penny, the BBC is brilliant at renewing shows, he’s no loss, the show will come back better than ever”

    Oops. Several of us told him at the time that Clarkson was irreplaceable but he wasn’t having it

    Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
    In very general terms people who don't get Clarksons appeal don't get British Society and people
    Totally agree.

    The same could be said for people not getting the appeal of Boris, pre his PMship, as well....

    I don't mind a car show being bastardised as a vehicle for the British sense of humour, but politics?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122
    Mortimer said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.

    Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.

    The success of Clarkson’s Farm concludes another very different argument

    Around the time Clarkson got kicked off Top Gear we had a lot of debate about it. I remember dear @Roger saying, as cluelessly as ever, “these comedians are two a penny, the BBC is brilliant at renewing shows, he’s no loss, the show will come back better than ever”

    Oops. Several of us told him at the time that Clarkson was irreplaceable but he wasn’t having it

    Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
    In very general terms people who don't get Clarksons appeal don't get British Society and people
    Totally agree.

    The same could be said for people not getting the appeal of Boris, pre his PMship, as well....

    Well, of a fair few figures really. People don't attract a following or fanship or nods from swathes of people because they are an anathema to the vast majority but because there is something to them, what they say or what they do that appeals to a portion.
    Resiling from that opinion doesn't negate the appeal
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,661
    Mortimer said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.

    Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.

    The success of Clarkson’s Farm concludes another very different argument

    Around the time Clarkson got kicked off Top Gear we had a lot of debate about it. I remember dear @Roger saying, as cluelessly as ever, “these comedians are two a penny, the BBC is brilliant at renewing shows, he’s no loss, the show will come back better than ever”

    Oops. Several of us told him at the time that Clarkson was irreplaceable but he wasn’t having it

    Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
    In very general terms people who don't get Clarksons appeal don't get British Society and people
    Totally agree.

    The same could be said for people not getting the appeal of Boris, pre his PMship, as well....

    When you watch that Robin reliant video - I may have mentioned it - you see Clarkson interacting with ex miners and working class northerners. He totally gets them and they totally get him. There is zero sense of him mocking them, indeed the whole video is a paean to northern England in all its muck and brass, most especially it’s a tribute to the people - able to laugh at themselves, along with Clarkson

    Boris had some of that ability and insight, but blew it all up. Quite a shame
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,590
    Dawn French has deleted her Israel video.

    https://x.com/dawn_french/status/1931328783425958294
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,661
    maxh said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:


    Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died

    The inexorable rise of automotive YouTube killed TG (and his stupid Amazon shit) not Jexit.

    Harry's Garage does reviews way better than TG ever did. Haggard Garage, etc. did the arsing about way better than TG ever did. Whatever your automotive niche fetish is, you can get a far more informed and in-depth version of it on YouTube. The remaining and dwindling audience for TG/GT was lightweight car enthusiasts who don't know what Instant Centre is and don't even own multiple piston ring compressors.

    Disclaimer: never seen a full episode of TG or the stupid Amazon shit but I can still authoritatively disclaim upon them.
    lol

    Top Gear with Clarkson & Co was literally the biggest TV show in the world. Not biggest car show on TV, biggest TV show of any kind. Bought by dozens of countries, with multiple international spin offs, it generated tens of millions for the BBC every year

    Why? Because it wasn’t a car show at all. It was a self satirising comedy about three middle aged men with hobbies and rivalries - and yet a friendship beneath it

    That’s why all the spin offs tried to copy it to the last old geezer detail

    "And on that bombshell, good night!"
    If the BBC wasn’t full of such pathetic Woke wankers, they could have kept Clarkson - and now they’d have a massive hit in Clarkson’s Farm

    But the BBC is full of woke wankers so they didn’t and they haven’t
    I watched the first Clarkson’s Farm series a few months ago and found it quite entertaining. But I did wonder how much of it was scripted. I say this because the dynamic between Clarkson and the young farmhand bloke seemed almost identical to that Ricky Gervais employs with Karl Pilkington. Seemed they were running with a comedic trope that already had some proven success.
    Of course it’s partly scripted, and partly improv’d - as was Top Gear at its best

    Clarkson’s Farm is not quite as funny as Peak TG - which could be riotously amusing - but it hits harder on its themes. It’s another triumph for JC and a bit sad for the BBC

    And Top Gear WAS funny. The famous “Robin Reliant sequence” is, I submit, some of the funniest TV ever made

    https://youtu.be/QQh56geU0X8?si=EWZ9yS0BvEpLc64D
    The aberration of your despicable blind thread is forgiven. That had me crying with laughter.

    ETA can I have another clip, please? I'm meant to be corralling incompetent exam markers. It makes me want to overturn a Robin Reliant on a busy roundabout.
    Yep. It’s that good

    I just watched it for maybe the 12th time. Crying with laughter. Again
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,501
    Battlebus said:

    https://x.com/Telegraph/status/1931278850660409463?s=19

    They say some have great pensions and some have poor pensions
    We at Reform say poor pensions for all!
    Poor pensions, retire later, transfer all your wealth to the spivs

    Wonder why they are waiting until they 'form a government'. They could start cutting the pensions and pay in the authorities that they currently control. Any idea of the reason for the delay apart from it being bullshit?
    Probably requires changes to primary legislation that gives the entitlement to membership of such schemes.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,667
    edited June 7
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.

    Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.

    Yes, quite

    There’s a discussion above about “hating politicians”. I agree that hatred is a distressing emotion and generally negative for all, nevertheless if I had to describe my emotions about this government and its leader it would come uncomfortably close to “hatred”

    They are damaging and impoverishing us as a country, a people, and a culture - and they do it quite
    overtly. They barely try to hide it. They clearly despise us - and me - so I despise them right back
    Do you and Max prepare your Victor Meldrew/Alf Garnet posts before coming on here or do you just feed off each other? You've always been what you are but I'm sure there was a time when Max was civilised and with an impressive understanding of economics
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,630

    Farage is back in full control of Reform, Zia is out as director. So, not 'workload pressure' then Nige?

    I'm not sure why he would still be a Director when he has resigned as Chairman? Clearly he wants out - it would be weird if he retained a position within the setup.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,630

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:


    Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died

    The inexorable rise of automotive YouTube killed TG (and his stupid Amazon shit) not Jexit.

    Harry's Garage does reviews way better than TG ever did. Haggard Garage, etc. did the arsing about way better than TG ever did. Whatever your automotive niche fetish is, you can get a far more informed and in-depth version of it on YouTube. The remaining and dwindling audience for TG/GT was lightweight car enthusiasts who don't know what Instant Centre is and don't even own multiple piston ring compressors.

    Disclaimer: never seen a full episode of TG or the stupid Amazon shit but I can still authoritatively disclaim upon them.
    lol

    Top Gear with Clarkson & Co was literally the biggest TV show in the world. Not biggest car show on TV, biggest TV show of any kind. Bought by dozens of countries, with multiple international spin offs, it generated tens of millions for the BBC every year

    Why? Because it wasn’t a car show at all. It was a self satirising comedy about three middle aged men with hobbies and rivalries - and yet a friendship beneath it

    That’s why all the spin offs tried to copy it to the last old geezer detail

    "And on that bombshell, good night!"
    If the BBC wasn’t full of such pathetic Woke wankers, they could have kept Clarkson - and now they’d have a massive hit in Clarkson’s Farm

    But the BBC is full of woke wankers so they didn’t and they haven’t
    I watched the first Clarkson’s Farm series a few months ago and found it quite entertaining. But I did wonder how much of it was scripted. I say this because the dynamic between Clarkson and the young farmhand bloke seemed almost identical to that Ricky Gervais employs with Karl Pilkington. Seemed they were running with a comedic trope that already had some proven success.
    Oh it's incredibly scripted. Still tolerable entertainment.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122
    edited June 7

    Farage is back in full control of Reform, Zia is out as director. So, not 'workload pressure' then Nige?

    I'm not sure why he would still be a Director when he has resigned as Chairman? Clearly he wants out - it would be weird if he retained a position within the setup.
    Its more a comment on what the party hierarchy have said about why he left - Farage, Tice and Oakeshott pushing the line that he found the workload too much - if it were simply that there would be no need to immediately step down as director, just as Chairman.
    Its obvious that wasn't it from what he said and that Farage, Tice etc are being 'nice' to try and lance the boil.
    We await the Sundays with interest given his silence since that tweet and some of the, shall we say, rather less charitable comments from the likes of Banks etc
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,590
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,554

    Curtice this morning is saying the Tories need to do 2 things before they can take on Farage and they've done one of them
    1) disavow Truss/Minibudget
    2) disavow Biggus Doggus Boris

    3) Listen to Hunt for a few minutes, for example here, and beg him to become the leader of the party. It would give them an outside chance of recovery in time.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr9Lq4aCyp8
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,102
    Not another one of their AI articles?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,020


    Random fact:

    Bradford once had the most private members' clubs outside of London, with five establishments.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,122
    algarkirk said:

    Curtice this morning is saying the Tories need to do 2 things before they can take on Farage and they've done one of them
    1) disavow Truss/Minibudget
    2) disavow Biggus Doggus Boris

    3) Listen to Hunt for a few minutes, for example here, and beg him to become the leader of the party. It would give them an outside chance of recovery in time.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr9Lq4aCyp8
    Without going into too much number crunching, Hunt would i think be their safety first option, he's the 'project hold 100 seats' guy but at the cost of a much longer road back to power. Its whether they want to roll the dice and try to get back by the parliament after next at risk of complete collapse
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,381
    There's a number of Catholic schools now that have far more practicing Muslim pupils than practicing Catholic ones.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,888

    Stablecoin operators hold more short-term US debt securities than large foreign investors such as China. Between them, they bought more than $40bn worth of Treasury bills in 2024.



    Why we should worry about the rise of stablecoins

    https://www.ft.com/content/e5701ff2-d976-451f-9ca2-68cd5f833c1a?accessToken=zwAAAZdKOrmzkdPlcB_y2XZFH9OcomjNX4M8Gg.MEYCIQCn60BlV6PwOFOD7RibB7oi5lqr2ys1dGW9EyJqoi18AAIhAK-wEY3_WxpqszEDApWyDEIxM3-TLPl5cn4KfoPbNlbe&segmentId=e95a9ae7-622c-6235-5f87-51e412b47e97&shareType=enterprise&shareId=b1c12535-a4a4-4dd6-a609-66e31717afc2

    Have you seen the proposed Bill being voted on in the USA for Stablecoin holders to be preferred if a bank becomes insolvent?

    https://bsky.app/profile/davidsirota.com/post/3lquz63cuyk2t

    It looks very much like the makings of the next financial crisis when the crypto ponzi scheme collapses.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,888

    There's a number of Catholic schools now that have far more practicing Muslim pupils than practicing Catholic ones.
    Sounds like integration to me. What more do people want?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,626
    British children remain a majority in nearly all schools.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,667
    edited June 7
    What's 'White British'?

    Do you use a colour chart?

    Can't you Max and Multiple identity Leon start your own webside. You could call it 'Stormfront'

    You feel like you need a swim when you three are around.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,630
    edited June 7

    Farage is back in full control of Reform, Zia is out as director. So, not 'workload pressure' then Nige?

    I'm not sure why he would still be a Director when he has resigned as Chairman? Clearly he wants out - it would be weird if he retained a position within the setup.
    Its more a comment on what the party hierarchy have said about why he left - Farage, Tice and Oakeshott pushing the line that he found the workload too much - if it were simply that there would be no need to immediately step down as director, just as Chairman.
    Its obvious that wasn't it from what he said and that Farage, Tice etc are being 'nice' to try and lance the boil.
    We await the Sundays with interest given his silence since that tweet and some of the, shall we say, rather less charitable comments from the likes of Banks etc
    What to do we know?

    Yusuf had been a bit erratic. He made a claim about DEI savings that apparently he couldn't substantiate either during the interview or after it. He made a further claim about specific savings at KCC that apparently wasn't supported by the Reform leader of KCC. According to Camilla Tominey, a briefing she had had with Yusuf was unexpectedly attended by Farage, which Yusuf apparently wasn't overjoyed about.

    That seems to me to be someone who is overworked and stressed out, and getting to be a bit of a concern.

    Then into that, you get Sarah Poachin's Burqa question, and his Tweet calling it 'dumb'.

    It seems to me that he expected (wholly unrealistically in my opinion) Nigel to support him against Poachin the way that he'd supported him against Lowe. But Nigel could never have done that - you can't call an MP dumb on social media for asking a question in the Commons and have that be OK.

    So Nigel didn't support him, and as a result he left (is my theory).

    I would be somewhat surprised if he goes to the Sundays to throw shit at Reform. I am sure he has plenty of shit to throw (anyone that high up in any party would), but I just don't see him doing it.



  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,501
    Roger said:

    What's 'White British'?

    Do you use a colour chart?
    It’s an option in the census, no?
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,653
    Foxy said:

    There's a number of Catholic schools now that have far more practicing Muslim pupils than practicing Catholic ones.
    Sounds like integration to me. What more do people want?
    Without wishing to doxx myself further on here than I have in the past, I can speak from experience on this.

    I can't quite see the problem. If the school preaches Catholic (or other Christian) values explicitly, including weekly services with hymns, Christmas and Easter services, it suggests to me an impressive level of whatever the opposite of fundamentalism is amongst the students and families of a Muslim faith who quietly tolerate all the Christian stuff in order to get a good education.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,630

    Farage is back in full control of Reform, Zia is out as director. So, not 'workload pressure' then Nige?

    I'm not sure why he would still be a Director when he has resigned as Chairman? Clearly he wants out - it would be weird if he retained a position within the setup.
    Its more a comment on what the party hierarchy have said about why he left - Farage, Tice and Oakeshott pushing the line that he found the workload too much - if it were simply that there would be no need to immediately step down as director, just as Chairman.
    Its obvious that wasn't it from what he said and that Farage, Tice etc are being 'nice' to try and lance the boil.
    We await the Sundays with interest given his silence since that tweet and some of the, shall we say, rather less charitable comments from the likes of Banks etc
    What to do we know?

    Yusuf had been a bit erratic. He made a claim about DEI savings that apparently he couldn't substantiate either during the interview or after it. He made a further claim about specific savings at KCC that apparently wasn't supported by the Reform leader of KCC. According to Camilla Tominey, a briefing she had had with Yusuf was unexpectedly attended by Farage, which Yusuf apparently wasn't overjoyed about.

    That seems to me to be someone who is overworked and stressed out, and getting to be a bit of a concern.

    Then into that, you get Sarah Poachin's Burqa question, and his Tweet calling it 'dumb'.

    It seems to me that he expected (wholly unrealistically in my opinion) Nigel to support him against Poachin the way that he'd supported him against Lowe. But Nigel could never have done that - you can't call an MP dumb on social media for asking a question in the Commons and have that be OK.

    So Nigel didn't support him, and as a result he left (is my theory).

    I would be somewhat surprised if he goes to the Sundays to throw shit at Reform. I am sure he has plenty of shit to throw (anyone that high up in any party would), but I just don't see him doing it.



    There's me swearing again without even realising it.
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