Can't you Max and Multiple identity Leon start your own webside. You could call it 'Stormfront'
You feel like you need a swim when you three are around.
It’s one of the official census options
It’s amazing how you maintain this incredible level of ignorance over thousands of comments, and many many years. I, for one, salute your indefatigable idiocy
There's a number of Catholic schools now that have far more practicing Muslim pupils than practicing Catholic ones.
Sounds like integration to me. What more do people want?
Without wishing to doxx myself further on here than I have in the past, I can speak from experience on this.
I can't quite see the problem. If the school preaches Catholic (or other Christian) values explicitly, including weekly services with hymns, Christmas and Easter services, it suggests to me an impressive level of whatever the opposite of fundamentalism is amongst the students and families of a Muslim faith who quietly tolerate all the Christian stuff in order to get a good education.
I never said it was a problem, I just thought it was interesting.
There's a number of Catholic schools now that have far more practicing Muslim pupils than practicing Catholic ones.
Sounds like integration to me. What more do people want?
Without wishing to doxx myself further on here than I have in the past, I can speak from experience on this.
I can't quite see the problem. If the school preaches Catholic (or other Christian) values explicitly, including weekly services with hymns, Christmas and Easter services, it suggests to me an impressive level of whatever the opposite of fundamentalism is amongst the students and families of a Muslim faith who quietly tolerate all the Christian stuff in order to get a good education.
I never said it was a problem, I just thought it was interesting.
Fair enough, and apologies.
I think it probablly says something interesting about the positive impact of mild religious values on the quality of education - a bit of a counter to the self-centredness and desire for instant gratification that hinders most teenagers from maximising their time at school.
I'm not sure I'd send my kids to a Catholic school specifically (too much inculcation of guilt and shame) but a religious school more generally? I'd be keen I think.
We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.
Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.
Yes, quite
There’s a discussion above about “hating politicians”. I agree that hatred is a distressing emotion and generally negative for all, nevertheless if I had to describe my emotions about this government and its leader it would come uncomfortably close to “hatred”
They are damaging and impoverishing us as a country, a people, and a culture - and they do it quite overtly. They barely try to hide it. They clearly despise us - and me - so I despise them right back
Do you and Max prepare your Victor Meldrew/Alf Garnet posts before coming on here or do you just feed off each other? You've always been what you are but I'm sure there was a time when Max was civilised and with an impressive understanding of economics
However much you suck up to the Hamas supporting flag wavers, you're still Jewish and gay, Roger. They will push you off the building to your death the same as those they killed without mercy on October 7th. Maybe you're so deluded or brainwashed that you think they'd spare you but they won't. I guess you'd walk up to the precipice having realised what you enabled but I'm not so sure.
Curtice this morning is saying the Tories need to do 2 things before they can take on Farage and they've done one of them 1) disavow Truss/Minibudget 2) disavow Biggus Doggus Boris
3) Listen to Hunt for a few minutes, for example here, and beg him to become the leader of the party. It would give them an outside chance of recovery in time.
Without going into too much number crunching, Hunt would i think be their safety first option, he's the 'project hold 100 seats' guy but at the cost of a much longer road back to power. Its whether they want to roll the dice and try to get back by the parliament after next at risk of complete collapse
Meh.
Curtice I think is just betraying his own political stance - as he does semi-frequently.
Can he point to any other successful political disavowals in the past? Is disavowal generally a good strategy in any public enterprise?
If I think of previous Tory admissions of guilt - take Theresa May's 'Nasty Party' - was that the start of a process that successfully rid the party of its 'Nasty' status and is now thought of as the 'Nice Party'? Or did it merely present the enemies of the party with a convenient tagline wrapped in a bow?
We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.
Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.
Yes, quite
There’s a discussion above about “hating politicians”. I agree that hatred is a distressing emotion and generally negative for all, nevertheless if I had to describe my emotions about this government and its leader it would come uncomfortably close to “hatred”
They are damaging and impoverishing us as a country, a people, and a culture - and they do it quite overtly. They barely try to hide it. They clearly despise us - and me - so I despise them right back
Do you and Max prepare your Victor Meldrew/Alf Garnet posts before coming on here or do you just feed off each other? You've always been what you are but I'm sure there was a time when Max was civilised and with an impressive understanding of economics
However much you suck up to the Hamas supporting flag wavers, you're still Jewish and gay, Roger. They will push you off the building to your death the same as those they killed without mercy on October 7th. Maybe you're so deluded or brainwashed that you think they'd spare you but they won't. I guess you'd walk up to the precipice having realised what you enabled but I'm not so sure.
We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.
Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.
Yes, quite
There’s a discussion above about “hating politicians”. I agree that hatred is a distressing emotion and generally negative for all, nevertheless if I had to describe my emotions about this government and its leader it would come uncomfortably close to “hatred”
They are damaging and impoverishing us as a country, a people, and a culture - and they do it quite overtly. They barely try to hide it. They clearly despise us - and me - so I despise them right back
Do you and Max prepare your Victor Meldrew/Alf Garnet posts before coming on here or do you just feed off each other? You've always been what you are but I'm sure there was a time when Max was civilised and with an impressive understanding of economics
However much you suck up to the Hamas supporting flag wavers, you're still Jewish and gay, Roger. They will push you off the building to your death the same as those they killed without mercy on October 7th. Maybe you're so deluded or brainwashed that you think they'd spare you but they won't. I guess you'd walk up to the precipice having realised what you enabled but I'm not so sure.
There's far too much abuse on PB directed towards other posters recently, so I am going to nip this in the bud from now on.
No swearing at other PBers, including asterisked out words and no such comments as telling others to have a wank.
The spam trap will be updated shortly, so if you get banned automatically you have been warned.
PB is a place for robust discussions but not being abusive towards each other.
Er...
I'm not being abusive, it's just the truth of what it is. I haven't called Roger any names or insulted him in any way as far as I can see. I'll happily delete it if TSE asks though.
Farage is back in full control of Reform, Zia is out as director. So, not 'workload pressure' then Nige?
I'm not sure why he would still be a Director when he has resigned as Chairman? Clearly he wants out - it would be weird if he retained a position within the setup.
Its more a comment on what the party hierarchy have said about why he left - Farage, Tice and Oakeshott pushing the line that he found the workload too much - if it were simply that there would be no need to immediately step down as director, just as Chairman. Its obvious that wasn't it from what he said and that Farage, Tice etc are being 'nice' to try and lance the boil. We await the Sundays with interest given his silence since that tweet and some of the, shall we say, rather less charitable comments from the likes of Banks etc
What to do we know?
Yusuf had been a bit erratic. He made a claim about DEI savings that apparently he couldn't substantiate either during the interview or after it. He made a further claim about specific savings at KCC that apparently wasn't supported by the Reform leader of KCC. According to Camilla Tominey, a briefing she had had with Yusuf was unexpectedly attended by Farage, which Yusuf apparently wasn't overjoyed about.
That seems to me to be someone who is overworked and stressed out, and getting to be a bit of a concern.
Then into that, you get Sarah Poachin's Burqa question, and his Tweet calling it 'dumb'.
It seems to me that he expected (wholly unrealistically in my opinion) Nigel to support him against Poachin the way that he'd supported him against Lowe. But Nigel could never have done that - you can't call an MP dumb on social media for asking a question in the Commons and have that be OK.
So Nigel didn't support him, and as a result he left (is my theory).
I would be somewhat surprised if he goes to the Sundays to throw shit at Reform. I am sure he has plenty of shit to throw (anyone that high up in any party would), but I just don't see him doing it.
We will of course see but there were certainly some interesting reactions - Lee Andersons non thanks and Arron Banks (who is of course on the DOGE squad) suggest a deeper rift in the hierarchy. Im not sure he'll go for Reform but certain figures within it. He's been getting trashed left right and centre by some Reformers (and thanked by others), i can't see him shrugging off the attacks. If not now a lot of shit will come out during Rupert Lowes action against them.
Britain's manufacturing left in the dust by America. It's a story as old as time.
Ironically, Churchill himself would soon throw away Britain's lead in computing by the destruction of Colossus and continued secrecy around Bletchley Park.
The reason for the secrecy was that the U.K. was selling rotor ciphers systems to everyone (especially allies). Which we could then read
Colossus wasn’t destroyed - a couple of older units were dismantled. One of the newer versions survived at least into the 60s at GCHQ.
Colossus wasn’t a general purpose computer - yes you could, kinda, do Turing complete on it. But very slowly and awkwardly.
The real reason the Americans pulled ahead was that they took their existing work (very considerable) and both private (IBM) and the government threw money into the area. Importantly, this wasn’t just blue sky research - enormous investments in productisation and reliability.
There's a number of Catholic schools now that have far more practicing Muslim pupils than practicing Catholic ones.
Sounds like integration to me. What more do people want?
Without wishing to doxx myself further on here than I have in the past, I can speak from experience on this.
I can't quite see the problem. If the school preaches Catholic (or other Christian) values explicitly, including weekly services with hymns, Christmas and Easter services, it suggests to me an impressive level of whatever the opposite of fundamentalism is amongst the students and families of a Muslim faith who quietly tolerate all the Christian stuff in order to get a good education.
I never said it was a problem, I just thought it was interesting.
Fair enough, and apologies.
I think it probablly says something interesting about the positive impact of mild religious values on the quality of education - a bit of a counter to the self-centredness and desire for instant gratification that hinders most teenagers from maximising their time at school.
I'm not sure I'd send my kids to a Catholic school specifically (too much inculcation of guilt and shame) but a religious school more generally? I'd be keen I think.
My daughter's in Year 6 so I did quite a bit of research on local schools when deciding where to apply to send her to.
Interestingly, as an atheist family, we'd be legally discriminated against in their priorities for the schools had we wanted to apply to send her there.
Catholic schools as an example can (and do) prioritise those practicing Catholicism first, but then can (and do) prioritise those practicing another religion ahead of those who are not practicing any.
So a practicing Muslim takes priority in a Catholic school over an agnostic or atheist.
Curtice this morning is saying the Tories need to do 2 things before they can take on Farage and they've done one of them 1) disavow Truss/Minibudget 2) disavow Biggus Doggus Boris
3) Listen to Hunt for a few minutes, for example here, and beg him to become the leader of the party. It would give them an outside chance of recovery in time.
Without going into too much number crunching, Hunt would i think be their safety first option, he's the 'project hold 100 seats' guy but at the cost of a much longer road back to power. Its whether they want to roll the dice and try to get back by the parliament after next at risk of complete collapse
Meh.
Curtice I think is just betraying his own political stance - as he does semi-frequently.
Can he point to any other successful political disavowals in the past? Is disavowal generally a good strategy in any public enterprise?
If I think of previous Tory admissions of guilt - take Theresa May's 'Nasty Party' - was that the start of a process that successfully rid the party of its 'Nasty' status and is now thought of as the 'Nice Party'? Or did it merely present the enemies of the party with a convenient tagline wrapped in a bow?
Oh I wasn't endorsing Curtice. I was merely reposting what he's been saying as it links to the thread. They won't disavow Boz anyway.
Farage is back in full control of Reform, Zia is out as director. So, not 'workload pressure' then Nige?
I'm not sure why he would still be a Director when he has resigned as Chairman? Clearly he wants out - it would be weird if he retained a position within the setup.
Its more a comment on what the party hierarchy have said about why he left - Farage, Tice and Oakeshott pushing the line that he found the workload too much - if it were simply that there would be no need to immediately step down as director, just as Chairman. Its obvious that wasn't it from what he said and that Farage, Tice etc are being 'nice' to try and lance the boil. We await the Sundays with interest given his silence since that tweet and some of the, shall we say, rather less charitable comments from the likes of Banks etc
What to do we know?
Yusuf had been a bit erratic. He made a claim about DEI savings that apparently he couldn't substantiate either during the interview or after it. He made a further claim about specific savings at KCC that apparently wasn't supported by the Reform leader of KCC. According to Camilla Tominey, a briefing she had had with Yusuf was unexpectedly attended by Farage, which Yusuf apparently wasn't overjoyed about.
That seems to me to be someone who is overworked and stressed out, and getting to be a bit of a concern.
Then into that, you get Sarah Poachin's Burqa question, and his Tweet calling it 'dumb'.
It seems to me that he expected (wholly unrealistically in my opinion) Nigel to support him against Poachin the way that he'd supported him against Lowe. But Nigel could never have done that - you can't call an MP dumb on social media for asking a question in the Commons and have that be OK.
So Nigel didn't support him, and as a result he left (is my theory).
I would be somewhat surprised if he goes to the Sundays to throw shit at Reform. I am sure he has plenty of shit to throw (anyone that high up in any party would), but I just don't see him doing it.
We will of course see but there were certainly some interesting reactions - Lee Andersons non thanks and Arron Banks (who is of course on the DOGE squad) suggest a deeper rift in the hierarchy. Im not sure he'll go for Reform but certain figures within it. He's been getting trashed left right and centre by some Reformers (and thanked by others), i can't see him shrugging off the attacks. If not now a lot of shit will come out during Rupert Lowes action against them.
Sigh.
It's a shame.
However, growing pains. Reform are the equivalent of a 6ft 3-year old just now. It can't all be smooth sailing.
There's a number of Catholic schools now that have far more practicing Muslim pupils than practicing Catholic ones.
Sounds like integration to me. What more do people want?
Without wishing to doxx myself further on here than I have in the past, I can speak from experience on this.
I can't quite see the problem. If the school preaches Catholic (or other Christian) values explicitly, including weekly services with hymns, Christmas and Easter services, it suggests to me an impressive level of whatever the opposite of fundamentalism is amongst the students and families of a Muslim faith who quietly tolerate all the Christian stuff in order to get a good education.
I never said it was a problem, I just thought it was interesting.
Fair enough, and apologies.
I think it probablly says something interesting about the positive impact of mild religious values on the quality of education - a bit of a counter to the self-centredness and desire for instant gratification that hinders most teenagers from maximising their time at school.
I'm not sure I'd send my kids to a Catholic school specifically (too much inculcation of guilt and shame) but a religious school more generally? I'd be keen I think.
My daughter's in Year 6 so I did quite a bit of research on local schools when deciding where to apply to send her to.
Interestingly, as an atheist family, we'd be legally discriminated against in their priorities for the schools had we wanted to apply to send her there.
Catholic schools as an example can (and do) prioritise those practicing Catholicism first, but then can (and do) prioritise those practicing another religion ahead of those who are not practicing any.
So a practicing Muslim takes priority in a Catholic school over an agnostic or atheist.
Wow. That surely makes atheists the only group in Britain to be discriminated against under the law. Never thought of that.
Curtice this morning is saying the Tories need to do 2 things before they can take on Farage and they've done one of them 1) disavow Truss/Minibudget 2) disavow Biggus Doggus Boris
3) Listen to Hunt for a few minutes, for example here, and beg him to become the leader of the party. It would give them an outside chance of recovery in time.
Without going into too much number crunching, Hunt would i think be their safety first option, he's the 'project hold 100 seats' guy but at the cost of a much longer road back to power. Its whether they want to roll the dice and try to get back by the parliament after next at risk of complete collapse
Meh.
Curtice I think is just betraying his own political stance - as he does semi-frequently.
Can he point to any other successful political disavowals in the past? Is disavowal generally a good strategy in any public enterprise?
If I think of previous Tory admissions of guilt - take Theresa May's 'Nasty Party' - was that the start of a process that successfully rid the party of its 'Nasty' status and is now thought of as the 'Nice Party'? Or did it merely present the enemies of the party with a convenient tagline wrapped in a bow?
Oh I wasn't endorsing Curtice. I was merely reposting what he's been saying as it links to the thread. They won't disavow Boz anyway.
I know - I was responding to 'him' not your reporting of his comments.
We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.
Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.
Yes, quite
There’s a discussion above about “hating politicians”. I agree that hatred is a distressing emotion and generally negative for all, nevertheless if I had to describe my emotions about this government and its leader it would come uncomfortably close to “hatred”
They are damaging and impoverishing us as a country, a people, and a culture - and they do it quite overtly. They barely try to hide it. They clearly despise us - and me - so I despise them right back
Do you and Max prepare your Victor Meldrew/Alf Garnet posts before coming on here or do you just feed off each other? You've always been what you are but I'm sure there was a time when Max was civilised and with an impressive understanding of economics
However much you suck up to the Hamas supporting flag wavers, you're still Jewish and gay, Roger. They will push you off the building to your death the same as those they killed without mercy on October 7th. Maybe you're so deluded or brainwashed that you think they'd spare you but they won't. I guess you'd walk up to the precipice having realised what you enabled but I'm not so sure.
There's far too much abuse on PB directed towards other posters recently, so I am going to nip this in the bud from now on.
No swearing at other PBers, including asterisked out words and no such comments as telling others to have a wank.
The spam trap will be updated shortly, so if you get banned automatically you have been warned.
PB is a place for robust discussions but not being abusive towards each other.
Er...
I'm not being abusive, it's just the truth of what it is. I haven't called Roger any names or insulted him in any way as far as I can see. I'll happily delete it if TSE asks though.
Meh, reading it again, maybe you're right, and I'm uncomfortable with using TSE's site notice to close down debate, so please feel free to ignore me.
But given the discussion was nothing to do with Hamas, but rather about the relative woefulness of our current government, it felt unnecessarily hostile.
Farage is back in full control of Reform, Zia is out as director. So, not 'workload pressure' then Nige?
I'm not sure why he would still be a Director when he has resigned as Chairman? Clearly he wants out - it would be weird if he retained a position within the setup.
Its more a comment on what the party hierarchy have said about why he left - Farage, Tice and Oakeshott pushing the line that he found the workload too much - if it were simply that there would be no need to immediately step down as director, just as Chairman. Its obvious that wasn't it from what he said and that Farage, Tice etc are being 'nice' to try and lance the boil. We await the Sundays with interest given his silence since that tweet and some of the, shall we say, rather less charitable comments from the likes of Banks etc
What to do we know?
Yusuf had been a bit erratic. He made a claim about DEI savings that apparently he couldn't substantiate either during the interview or after it. He made a further claim about specific savings at KCC that apparently wasn't supported by the Reform leader of KCC. According to Camilla Tominey, a briefing she had had with Yusuf was unexpectedly attended by Farage, which Yusuf apparently wasn't overjoyed about.
That seems to me to be someone who is overworked and stressed out, and getting to be a bit of a concern.
Then into that, you get Sarah Poachin's Burqa question, and his Tweet calling it 'dumb'.
It seems to me that he expected (wholly unrealistically in my opinion) Nigel to support him against Poachin the way that he'd supported him against Lowe. But Nigel could never have done that - you can't call an MP dumb on social media for asking a question in the Commons and have that be OK.
So Nigel didn't support him, and as a result he left (is my theory).
I would be somewhat surprised if he goes to the Sundays to throw shit at Reform. I am sure he has plenty of shit to throw (anyone that high up in any party would), but I just don't see him doing it.
We will of course see but there were certainly some interesting reactions - Lee Andersons non thanks and Arron Banks (who is of course on the DOGE squad) suggest a deeper rift in the hierarchy. Im not sure he'll go for Reform but certain figures within it. He's been getting trashed left right and centre by some Reformers (and thanked by others), i can't see him shrugging off the attacks. If not now a lot of shit will come out during Rupert Lowes action against them.
Sigh.
It's a shame.
However, growing pains. Reform are the equivalent of a 6ft 3-year old just now. It can't all be smooth sailing.
Absolutely. And as they seem set to become a factor or maybe even a government they need to learn how to 'be' without psychodrama. Too much, too fast, there's an awful lot of people filling in the blank page and not from the same intent. They will be a powderkeg for some time The Tories have been since at least 1990 and Labour since the 70s, after all
There's a number of Catholic schools now that have far more practicing Muslim pupils than practicing Catholic ones.
Sounds like integration to me. What more do people want?
Without wishing to doxx myself further on here than I have in the past, I can speak from experience on this.
I can't quite see the problem. If the school preaches Catholic (or other Christian) values explicitly, including weekly services with hymns, Christmas and Easter services, it suggests to me an impressive level of whatever the opposite of fundamentalism is amongst the students and families of a Muslim faith who quietly tolerate all the Christian stuff in order to get a good education.
I never said it was a problem, I just thought it was interesting.
Fair enough, and apologies.
I think it probablly says something interesting about the positive impact of mild religious values on the quality of education - a bit of a counter to the self-centredness and desire for instant gratification that hinders most teenagers from maximising their time at school.
I'm not sure I'd send my kids to a Catholic school specifically (too much inculcation of guilt and shame) but a religious school more generally? I'd be keen I think.
My daughter's in Year 6 so I did quite a bit of research on local schools when deciding where to apply to send her to.
Interestingly, as an atheist family, we'd be legally discriminated against in their priorities for the schools had we wanted to apply to send her there.
Catholic schools as an example can (and do) prioritise those practicing Catholicism first, but then can (and do) prioritise those practicing another religion ahead of those who are not practicing any.
So a practicing Muslim takes priority in a Catholic school over an agnostic or atheist.
Yes I'm uncomfortable with that - we have one successful secondary school that does the same. Though not all do - one that I am aware of explicitly welcomes 'all faiths and none' and whilst it preserves space for an intake of choristers faith doesn't feature in the admissions otherwise.
Curtice this morning is saying the Tories need to do 2 things before they can take on Farage and they've done one of them 1) disavow Truss/Minibudget 2) disavow Biggus Doggus Boris
3) Listen to Hunt for a few minutes, for example here, and beg him to become the leader of the party. It would give them an outside chance of recovery in time.
Without going into too much number crunching, Hunt would i think be their safety first option, he's the 'project hold 100 seats' guy but at the cost of a much longer road back to power. Its whether they want to roll the dice and try to get back by the parliament after next at risk of complete collapse
Meh.
Curtice I think is just betraying his own political stance - as he does semi-frequently.
Can he point to any other successful political disavowals in the past? Is disavowal generally a good strategy in any public enterprise?
If I think of previous Tory admissions of guilt - take Theresa May's 'Nasty Party' - was that the start of a process that successfully rid the party of its 'Nasty' status and is now thought of as the 'Nice Party'? Or did it merely present the enemies of the party with a convenient tagline wrapped in a bow?
Oh I wasn't endorsing Curtice. I was merely reposting what he's been saying as it links to the thread. They won't disavow Boz anyway.
I know - I was responding to 'him' not your reporting of his comments.
Curtice loves to spin a good web of polling possibles
We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.
Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.
Yes, quite
There’s a discussion above about “hating politicians”. I agree that hatred is a distressing emotion and generally negative for all, nevertheless if I had to describe my emotions about this government and its leader it would come uncomfortably close to “hatred”
They are damaging and impoverishing us as a country, a people, and a culture - and they do it quite overtly. They barely try to hide it. They clearly despise us - and me - so I despise them right back
Do you and Max prepare your Victor Meldrew/Alf Garnet posts before coming on here or do you just feed off each other? You've always been what you are but I'm sure there was a time when Max was civilised and with an impressive understanding of economics
However much you suck up to the Hamas supporting flag wavers, you're still Jewish and gay, Roger. They will push you off the building to your death the same as those they killed without mercy on October 7th. Maybe you're so deluded or brainwashed that you think they'd spare you but they won't. I guess you'd walk up to the precipice having realised what you enabled but I'm not so sure.
There's far too much abuse on PB directed towards other posters recently, so I am going to nip this in the bud from now on.
No swearing at other PBers, including asterisked out words and no such comments as telling others to have a wank.
The spam trap will be updated shortly, so if you get banned automatically you have been warned.
PB is a place for robust discussions but not being abusive towards each other.
Er...
I'm not being abusive, it's just the truth of what it is. I haven't called Roger any names or insulted him in any way as far as I can see. I'll happily delete it if TSE asks though.
Is Roger gay?!
Well I never. Every day a madrassa day
AIUI and IIRC he has at least one child, a daughter - not that this would stop him being gay, of course
We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.
Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.
Yes, quite
There’s a discussion above about “hating politicians”. I agree that hatred is a distressing emotion and generally negative for all, nevertheless if I had to describe my emotions about this government and its leader it would come uncomfortably close to “hatred”
They are damaging and impoverishing us as a country, a people, and a culture - and they do it quite overtly. They barely try to hide it. They clearly despise us - and me - so I despise them right back
Do you and Max prepare your Victor Meldrew/Alf Garnet posts before coming on here or do you just feed off each other? You've always been what you are but I'm sure there was a time when Max was civilised and with an impressive understanding of economics
However much you suck up to the Hamas supporting flag wavers, you're still Jewish and gay, Roger. They will push you off the building to your death the same as those they killed without mercy on October 7th. Maybe you're so deluded or brainwashed that you think they'd spare you but they won't. I guess you'd walk up to the precipice having realised what you enabled but I'm not so sure.
There's far too much abuse on PB directed towards other posters recently, so I am going to nip this in the bud from now on.
No swearing at other PBers, including asterisked out words and no such comments as telling others to have a wank.
The spam trap will be updated shortly, so if you get banned automatically you have been warned.
PB is a place for robust discussions but not being abusive towards each other.
Er...
I'm not being abusive, it's just the truth of what it is. I haven't called Roger any names or insulted him in any way as far as I can see. I'll happily delete it if TSE asks though.
Is Roger gay?!
Well I never. Every day a madrassa day
AIUI and IIRC he has at least one child, a daughter - not that this would stop him being gay, of course
Oh I thought he was, apologies Roger. I must have had my wires crossed.
Farage is back in full control of Reform, Zia is out as director. So, not 'workload pressure' then Nige?
I'm not sure why he would still be a Director when he has resigned as Chairman? Clearly he wants out - it would be weird if he retained a position within the setup.
Its more a comment on what the party hierarchy have said about why he left - Farage, Tice and Oakeshott pushing the line that he found the workload too much - if it were simply that there would be no need to immediately step down as director, just as Chairman. Its obvious that wasn't it from what he said and that Farage, Tice etc are being 'nice' to try and lance the boil. We await the Sundays with interest given his silence since that tweet and some of the, shall we say, rather less charitable comments from the likes of Banks etc
What to do we know?
Yusuf had been a bit erratic. He made a claim about DEI savings that apparently he couldn't substantiate either during the interview or after it. He made a further claim about specific savings at KCC that apparently wasn't supported by the Reform leader of KCC. According to Camilla Tominey, a briefing she had had with Yusuf was unexpectedly attended by Farage, which Yusuf apparently wasn't overjoyed about.
That seems to me to be someone who is overworked and stressed out, and getting to be a bit of a concern.
Then into that, you get Sarah Poachin's Burqa question, and his Tweet calling it 'dumb'.
It seems to me that he expected (wholly unrealistically in my opinion) Nigel to support him against Poachin the way that he'd supported him against Lowe. But Nigel could never have done that - you can't call an MP dumb on social media for asking a question in the Commons and have that be OK.
So Nigel didn't support him, and as a result he left (is my theory).
I would be somewhat surprised if he goes to the Sundays to throw shit at Reform. I am sure he has plenty of shit to throw (anyone that high up in any party would), but I just don't see him doing it.
We will of course see but there were certainly some interesting reactions - Lee Andersons non thanks and Arron Banks (who is of course on the DOGE squad) suggest a deeper rift in the hierarchy. Im not sure he'll go for Reform but certain figures within it. He's been getting trashed left right and centre by some Reformers (and thanked by others), i can't see him shrugging off the attacks. If not now a lot of shit will come out during Rupert Lowes action against them.
Sigh.
It's a shame.
However, growing pains. Reform are the equivalent of a 6ft 3-year old just now. It can't all be smooth sailing.
Absolutely. And as they seem set to become a factor or maybe even a government they need to learn how to 'be' without psychodrama. Too much, too fast, there's an awful lot of people filling in the blank page and not from the same intent. They will be a powderkeg for some time The Tories have been since at least 1990 and Labour since the 70s, after all
Reform do have a big problem coming which is that they still don’t have a coherent ideology outside of their key aims of reducing immigration and being anti woke.
What exactly do Reform want to be? Old Labour protectionists? Cost-cutting small government freewheelers? Big spenders? Tories in all but name?
The fact that they are new entrants in a deeply discredited party system and they major on immigration and culture topics gets them a fair step along the road to success, but before long if they desire power they are going to have to start thinking about their overall message. Farage’s tendencies are towards small-state, low tax neo-Thatcherism, I think. I’m not convinced his more high-spending tack of late is anything other than intended to shoot Labour foxes and solidify his appeal with the red wall. But you can’t run a party forever on contradictions. The Tories found that post 2019.
Farage is back in full control of Reform, Zia is out as director. So, not 'workload pressure' then Nige?
I'm not sure why he would still be a Director when he has resigned as Chairman? Clearly he wants out - it would be weird if he retained a position within the setup.
Its more a comment on what the party hierarchy have said about why he left - Farage, Tice and Oakeshott pushing the line that he found the workload too much - if it were simply that there would be no need to immediately step down as director, just as Chairman. Its obvious that wasn't it from what he said and that Farage, Tice etc are being 'nice' to try and lance the boil. We await the Sundays with interest given his silence since that tweet and some of the, shall we say, rather less charitable comments from the likes of Banks etc
What to do we know?
Yusuf had been a bit erratic. He made a claim about DEI savings that apparently he couldn't substantiate either during the interview or after it. He made a further claim about specific savings at KCC that apparently wasn't supported by the Reform leader of KCC. According to Camilla Tominey, a briefing she had had with Yusuf was unexpectedly attended by Farage, which Yusuf apparently wasn't overjoyed about.
That seems to me to be someone who is overworked and stressed out, and getting to be a bit of a concern.
Then into that, you get Sarah Poachin's Burqa question, and his Tweet calling it 'dumb'.
It seems to me that he expected (wholly unrealistically in my opinion) Nigel to support him against Poachin the way that he'd supported him against Lowe. But Nigel could never have done that - you can't call an MP dumb on social media for asking a question in the Commons and have that be OK.
So Nigel didn't support him, and as a result he left (is my theory).
I would be somewhat surprised if he goes to the Sundays to throw shit at Reform. I am sure he has plenty of shit to throw (anyone that high up in any party would), but I just don't see him doing it.
We will of course see but there were certainly some interesting reactions - Lee Andersons non thanks and Arron Banks (who is of course on the DOGE squad) suggest a deeper rift in the hierarchy. Im not sure he'll go for Reform but certain figures within it. He's been getting trashed left right and centre by some Reformers (and thanked by others), i can't see him shrugging off the attacks. If not now a lot of shit will come out during Rupert Lowes action against them.
Sigh.
It's a shame.
However, growing pains. Reform are the equivalent of a 6ft 3-year old just now. It can't all be smooth sailing.
Absolutely. And as they seem set to become a factor or maybe even a government they need to learn how to 'be' without psychodrama. Too much, too fast, there's an awful lot of people filling in the blank page and not from the same intent. They will be a powderkeg for some time The Tories have been since at least 1990 and Labour since the 70s, after all
Reform do have a big problem coming which is that they still don’t have a coherent ideology outside of their key aims of reducing immigration and being anti woke.
What exactly do Reform want to be? Old Labour protectionists? Cost-cutting small government freewheelers? Big spenders? Tories in all but name?
The fact that they are new entrants in a deeply discredited party system and they major on immigration and culture topics gets them a fair step along the road to success, but before long if they desire power they are going to have to start thinking about their overall message. Farage’s tendencies are towards small-state, low tax neo-Thatcherism, I think. I’m not convinced his more high-spending tack of late is anything other than intended to shoot Labour foxes and solidify his appeal with the red wall. But you can’t run a party forever on contradictions. The Tories found that post 2019.
Agreed. If we cast the 'forget Reform exist' spell, there is no chance of the current group of MPs, councillors and 'subscribers' coming together organically. That's Reforms biggest danger- chunks flying off as they commit to policy and concepts, and huge internal bust ups because these are all newcomers at a destination, not fellow travellers
Farage is back in full control of Reform, Zia is out as director. So, not 'workload pressure' then Nige?
I'm not sure why he would still be a Director when he has resigned as Chairman? Clearly he wants out - it would be weird if he retained a position within the setup.
Its more a comment on what the party hierarchy have said about why he left - Farage, Tice and Oakeshott pushing the line that he found the workload too much - if it were simply that there would be no need to immediately step down as director, just as Chairman. Its obvious that wasn't it from what he said and that Farage, Tice etc are being 'nice' to try and lance the boil. We await the Sundays with interest given his silence since that tweet and some of the, shall we say, rather less charitable comments from the likes of Banks etc
What to do we know?
Yusuf had been a bit erratic. He made a claim about DEI savings that apparently he couldn't substantiate either during the interview or after it. He made a further claim about specific savings at KCC that apparently wasn't supported by the Reform leader of KCC. According to Camilla Tominey, a briefing she had had with Yusuf was unexpectedly attended by Farage, which Yusuf apparently wasn't overjoyed about.
That seems to me to be someone who is overworked and stressed out, and getting to be a bit of a concern.
Then into that, you get Sarah Poachin's Burqa question, and his Tweet calling it 'dumb'.
It seems to me that he expected (wholly unrealistically in my opinion) Nigel to support him against Poachin the way that he'd supported him against Lowe. But Nigel could never have done that - you can't call an MP dumb on social media for asking a question in the Commons and have that be OK.
So Nigel didn't support him, and as a result he left (is my theory).
I would be somewhat surprised if he goes to the Sundays to throw shit at Reform. I am sure he has plenty of shit to throw (anyone that high up in any party would), but I just don't see him doing it.
We will of course see but there were certainly some interesting reactions - Lee Andersons non thanks and Arron Banks (who is of course on the DOGE squad) suggest a deeper rift in the hierarchy. Im not sure he'll go for Reform but certain figures within it. He's been getting trashed left right and centre by some Reformers (and thanked by others), i can't see him shrugging off the attacks. If not now a lot of shit will come out during Rupert Lowes action against them.
Sigh.
It's a shame.
However, growing pains. Reform are the equivalent of a 6ft 3-year old just now. It can't all be smooth sailing.
Absolutely. And as they seem set to become a factor or maybe even a government they need to learn how to 'be' without psychodrama. Too much, too fast, there's an awful lot of people filling in the blank page and not from the same intent. They will be a powderkeg for some time The Tories have been since at least 1990 and Labour since the 70s, after all
Reform do have a big problem coming which is that they still don’t have a coherent ideology outside of their key aims of reducing immigration and being anti woke.
What exactly do Reform want to be? Old Labour protectionists? Cost-cutting small government freewheelers? Big spenders? Tories in all but name?
The fact that they are new entrants in a deeply discredited party system and they major on immigration and culture topics gets them a fair step along the road to success, but before long if they desire power they are going to have to start thinking about their overall message. Farage’s tendencies are towards small-state, low tax neo-Thatcherism, I think. I’m not convinced his more high-spending tack of late is anything other than intended to shoot Labour foxes and solidify his appeal with the red wall. But you can’t run a party forever on contradictions. The Tories found that post 2019.
They have the benefit of being able to draw on the parts of Trump's policy agenda that are applicable to the UK. The Big Beautiful Bill includes a tax on remittances that we should also implement.
Farage is back in full control of Reform, Zia is out as director. So, not 'workload pressure' then Nige?
I'm not sure why he would still be a Director when he has resigned as Chairman? Clearly he wants out - it would be weird if he retained a position within the setup.
Its more a comment on what the party hierarchy have said about why he left - Farage, Tice and Oakeshott pushing the line that he found the workload too much - if it were simply that there would be no need to immediately step down as director, just as Chairman. Its obvious that wasn't it from what he said and that Farage, Tice etc are being 'nice' to try and lance the boil. We await the Sundays with interest given his silence since that tweet and some of the, shall we say, rather less charitable comments from the likes of Banks etc
What to do we know?
Yusuf had been a bit erratic. He made a claim about DEI savings that apparently he couldn't substantiate either during the interview or after it. He made a further claim about specific savings at KCC that apparently wasn't supported by the Reform leader of KCC. According to Camilla Tominey, a briefing she had had with Yusuf was unexpectedly attended by Farage, which Yusuf apparently wasn't overjoyed about.
That seems to me to be someone who is overworked and stressed out, and getting to be a bit of a concern.
Then into that, you get Sarah Poachin's Burqa question, and his Tweet calling it 'dumb'.
It seems to me that he expected (wholly unrealistically in my opinion) Nigel to support him against Poachin the way that he'd supported him against Lowe. But Nigel could never have done that - you can't call an MP dumb on social media for asking a question in the Commons and have that be OK.
So Nigel didn't support him, and as a result he left (is my theory).
I would be somewhat surprised if he goes to the Sundays to throw shit at Reform. I am sure he has plenty of shit to throw (anyone that high up in any party would), but I just don't see him doing it.
We will of course see but there were certainly some interesting reactions - Lee Andersons non thanks and Arron Banks (who is of course on the DOGE squad) suggest a deeper rift in the hierarchy. Im not sure he'll go for Reform but certain figures within it. He's been getting trashed left right and centre by some Reformers (and thanked by others), i can't see him shrugging off the attacks. If not now a lot of shit will come out during Rupert Lowes action against them.
Sigh.
It's a shame.
However, growing pains. Reform are the equivalent of a 6ft 3-year old just now. It can't all be smooth sailing.
Absolutely. And as they seem set to become a factor or maybe even a government they need to learn how to 'be' without psychodrama. Too much, too fast, there's an awful lot of people filling in the blank page and not from the same intent. They will be a powderkeg for some time The Tories have been since at least 1990 and Labour since the 70s, after all
Reform do have a big problem coming which is that they still don’t have a coherent ideology outside of their key aims of reducing immigration and being anti woke.
What exactly do Reform want to be? Old Labour protectionists? Cost-cutting small government freewheelers? Big spenders? Tories in all but name?
The fact that they are new entrants in a deeply discredited party system and they major on immigration and culture topics gets them a fair step along the road to success, but before long if they desire power they are going to have to start thinking about their overall message. Farage’s tendencies are towards small-state, low tax neo-Thatcherism, I think. I’m not convinced his more high-spending tack of late is anything other than intended to shoot Labour foxes and solidify his appeal with the red wall. But you can’t run a party forever on contradictions. The Tories found that post 2019.
Their job is to stop virtually all immigration (and of course the boats), and indeed reverse the tide - as is being done in Denmark, Sweden and now Germany - remigration
If they do that I suspect the voters will forgive them anything - for one term. After that they will need other ideas
Farage is back in full control of Reform, Zia is out as director. So, not 'workload pressure' then Nige?
I'm not sure why he would still be a Director when he has resigned as Chairman? Clearly he wants out - it would be weird if he retained a position within the setup.
Its more a comment on what the party hierarchy have said about why he left - Farage, Tice and Oakeshott pushing the line that he found the workload too much - if it were simply that there would be no need to immediately step down as director, just as Chairman. Its obvious that wasn't it from what he said and that Farage, Tice etc are being 'nice' to try and lance the boil. We await the Sundays with interest given his silence since that tweet and some of the, shall we say, rather less charitable comments from the likes of Banks etc
What to do we know?
Yusuf had been a bit erratic. He made a claim about DEI savings that apparently he couldn't substantiate either during the interview or after it. He made a further claim about specific savings at KCC that apparently wasn't supported by the Reform leader of KCC. According to Camilla Tominey, a briefing she had had with Yusuf was unexpectedly attended by Farage, which Yusuf apparently wasn't overjoyed about.
That seems to me to be someone who is overworked and stressed out, and getting to be a bit of a concern.
Then into that, you get Sarah Poachin's Burqa question, and his Tweet calling it 'dumb'.
It seems to me that he expected (wholly unrealistically in my opinion) Nigel to support him against Poachin the way that he'd supported him against Lowe. But Nigel could never have done that - you can't call an MP dumb on social media for asking a question in the Commons and have that be OK.
So Nigel didn't support him, and as a result he left (is my theory).
I would be somewhat surprised if he goes to the Sundays to throw shit at Reform. I am sure he has plenty of shit to throw (anyone that high up in any party would), but I just don't see him doing it.
We will of course see but there were certainly some interesting reactions - Lee Andersons non thanks and Arron Banks (who is of course on the DOGE squad) suggest a deeper rift in the hierarchy. Im not sure he'll go for Reform but certain figures within it. He's been getting trashed left right and centre by some Reformers (and thanked by others), i can't see him shrugging off the attacks. If not now a lot of shit will come out during Rupert Lowes action against them.
Sigh.
It's a shame.
However, growing pains. Reform are the equivalent of a 6ft 3-year old just now. It can't all be smooth sailing.
Absolutely. And as they seem set to become a factor or maybe even a government they need to learn how to 'be' without psychodrama. Too much, too fast, there's an awful lot of people filling in the blank page and not from the same intent. They will be a powderkeg for some time The Tories have been since at least 1990 and Labour since the 70s, after all
Reform do have a big problem coming which is that they still don’t have a coherent ideology outside of their key aims of reducing immigration and being anti woke.
What exactly do Reform want to be? Old Labour protectionists? Cost-cutting small government freewheelers? Big spenders? Tories in all but name?
The fact that they are new entrants in a deeply discredited party system and they major on immigration and culture topics gets them a fair step along the road to success, but before long if they desire power they are going to have to start thinking about their overall message. Farage’s tendencies are towards small-state, low tax neo-Thatcherism, I think. I’m not convinced his more high-spending tack of late is anything other than intended to shoot Labour foxes and solidify his appeal with the red wall. But you can’t run a party forever on contradictions. The Tories found that post 2019.
Post 2019 the Tories were in Downing Street.
Pre-2024 Starmer's Labour didn't have a coherent ideology either, hence the Ming Vase strategy. They can't do that in office, but post-2024 they were in Downing Street.
If Farage can copy Starmer's Ming Vase strategy and only resolve the contradictions once he's Prime Minister, I'm sure he can live with that.
The bigger problem for the party is the sheer number of voters that Farage is utterly repellent to.
We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.
Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.
Yes, quite
There’s a discussion above about “hating politicians”. I agree that hatred is a distressing emotion and generally negative for all, nevertheless if I had to describe my emotions about this government and its leader it would come uncomfortably close to “hatred”
They are damaging and impoverishing us as a country, a people, and a culture - and they do it quite overtly. They barely try to hide it. They clearly despise us - and me - so I despise them right back
This tax is Labour's revenge on the countryside for voting to leave the EU. It raises a pitiful amount of money but it hurts the families and communities who gave city dwellers a black eye by voting to leave.
I think this government is among the most contemptible we've had. The Tories were mostly just incompetent, Labour are specifically targeting those people who they don't agree with and destroying family businesses out of spite.
Hate, despise, loathe are all strong words and yet all of them apply to this government. Honestly, if it's a straight up choice between Labour and Reform I'll probably go out and campaign for Reform. Labour can't be trusted with the economy, immigration or the beautiful countryside. They fail on all three counts.
The problem of tax dodging by buying agricultural land is a genuine issue. In 2023 the majority of agricultural land transfers were to non-farmers. As well as the lost revenue, this distorts the agricultural land market to the dis-benefit of genuine farmers.
There were a number of better ways to close the loophole discussed on here, including making the IHT deferred and payable if the land is sold within 10 or 25 years, being waived after that date. My own suggestion was to allow the agricultural IHT exemption only to estates where the deceased could demonstrate that their income was 50% or more from agricultural earnings. I am sure there are other possibilities that would close the loophole being used by Clarkson etc al, but spare genuine family farmers with assets of more than £3 million.
Frankly, I don't think it will shift many votes as it stands as few millionaire land owners were voting Labour anyway, let alone unseat Starmer.
Apologies to @TSE for my language at the tail end of last thread, but there are worse things in that thread than a few swear words.
Simpler - IHT is a charge on the land that is paid if sold. If it is inherited again, it doesn’t get doubled.
So if a farming family keeps the land for 500 years, no tax.
A tax shelter where you pay tax on exit… is no longer a tax shelter.
The current arrangements will increase the push to land owning by companies. Which will end up with a few mega landowning corporations. Probably, the CEOs of these will buy their way into the House of Lords.
There's a number of Catholic schools now that have far more practicing Muslim pupils than practicing Catholic ones.
Sounds like integration to me. What more do people want?
Without wishing to doxx myself further on here than I have in the past, I can speak from experience on this.
I can't quite see the problem. If the school preaches Catholic (or other Christian) values explicitly, including weekly services with hymns, Christmas and Easter services, it suggests to me an impressive level of whatever the opposite of fundamentalism is amongst the students and families of a Muslim faith who quietly tolerate all the Christian stuff in order to get a good education.
I never said it was a problem, I just thought it was interesting.
Fair enough, and apologies.
I think it probablly says something interesting about the positive impact of mild religious values on the quality of education - a bit of a counter to the self-centredness and desire for instant gratification that hinders most teenagers from maximising their time at school.
I'm not sure I'd send my kids to a Catholic school specifically (too much inculcation of guilt and shame) but a religious school more generally? I'd be keen I think.
My daughter's in Year 6 so I did quite a bit of research on local schools when deciding where to apply to send her to.
Interestingly, as an atheist family, we'd be legally discriminated against in their priorities for the schools had we wanted to apply to send her there.
Catholic schools as an example can (and do) prioritise those practicing Catholicism first, but then can (and do) prioritise those practicing another religion ahead of those who are not practicing any.
So a practicing Muslim takes priority in a Catholic school over an agnostic or atheist.
Wow. That surely makes atheists the only group in Britain to be discriminated against under the law. Never thought of that.
They are also discriminated against by St Peter on the grounds of belief.. No entry to heaven.
It won't make any difference, because people in Red states won't believe it. Just as people in Red states believe that Democratic states have more crime than Republican ones, when the opposite is true.
Beliefs about reality follow prejudices. People are remarkably fact resistant.
Farage is back in full control of Reform, Zia is out as director. So, not 'workload pressure' then Nige?
I'm not sure why he would still be a Director when he has resigned as Chairman? Clearly he wants out - it would be weird if he retained a position within the setup.
Its more a comment on what the party hierarchy have said about why he left - Farage, Tice and Oakeshott pushing the line that he found the workload too much - if it were simply that there would be no need to immediately step down as director, just as Chairman. Its obvious that wasn't it from what he said and that Farage, Tice etc are being 'nice' to try and lance the boil. We await the Sundays with interest given his silence since that tweet and some of the, shall we say, rather less charitable comments from the likes of Banks etc
What to do we know?
Yusuf had been a bit erratic. He made a claim about DEI savings that apparently he couldn't substantiate either during the interview or after it. He made a further claim about specific savings at KCC that apparently wasn't supported by the Reform leader of KCC. According to Camilla Tominey, a briefing she had had with Yusuf was unexpectedly attended by Farage, which Yusuf apparently wasn't overjoyed about.
That seems to me to be someone who is overworked and stressed out, and getting to be a bit of a concern.
Then into that, you get Sarah Poachin's Burqa question, and his Tweet calling it 'dumb'.
It seems to me that he expected (wholly unrealistically in my opinion) Nigel to support him against Poachin the way that he'd supported him against Lowe. But Nigel could never have done that - you can't call an MP dumb on social media for asking a question in the Commons and have that be OK.
So Nigel didn't support him, and as a result he left (is my theory).
I would be somewhat surprised if he goes to the Sundays to throw shit at Reform. I am sure he has plenty of shit to throw (anyone that high up in any party would), but I just don't see him doing it.
We will of course see but there were certainly some interesting reactions - Lee Andersons non thanks and Arron Banks (who is of course on the DOGE squad) suggest a deeper rift in the hierarchy. Im not sure he'll go for Reform but certain figures within it. He's been getting trashed left right and centre by some Reformers (and thanked by others), i can't see him shrugging off the attacks. If not now a lot of shit will come out during Rupert Lowes action against them.
Sigh.
It's a shame.
However, growing pains. Reform are the equivalent of a 6ft 3-year old just now. It can't all be smooth sailing.
Absolutely. And as they seem set to become a factor or maybe even a government they need to learn how to 'be' without psychodrama. Too much, too fast, there's an awful lot of people filling in the blank page and not from the same intent. They will be a powderkeg for some time The Tories have been since at least 1990 and Labour since the 70s, after all
Reform do have a big problem coming which is that they still don’t have a coherent ideology outside of their key aims of reducing immigration and being anti woke.
What exactly do Reform want to be? Old Labour protectionists? Cost-cutting small government freewheelers? Big spenders? Tories in all but name?
The fact that they are new entrants in a deeply discredited party system and they major on immigration and culture topics gets them a fair step along the road to success, but before long if they desire power they are going to have to start thinking about their overall message. Farage’s tendencies are towards small-state, low tax neo-Thatcherism, I think. I’m not convinced his more high-spending tack of late is anything other than intended to shoot Labour foxes and solidify his appeal with the red wall. But you can’t run a party forever on contradictions. The Tories found that post 2019.
Post 2019 the Tories were in Downing Street.
Pre-2024 Starmer's Labour didn't have a coherent ideology either, hence the Ming Vase strategy. They can't do that in office, but post-2024 they were in Downing Street.
If Farage can copy Starmer's Ming Vase strategy and only resolve the contradictions once he's Prime Minister, I'm sure he can live with that.
The bigger problem for the party is the sheer number of voters that Farage is utterly repellent to.
That 'sheer number of voters that Farage is repellent to' once included all but 5%, then all but 8%, then all but 14%, then all but 18%, now all but 33%. People who find Farage too repellent to vote for are apparently a diminishing breed.
There's a number of Catholic schools now that have far more practicing Muslim pupils than practicing Catholic ones.
Sounds like integration to me. What more do people want?
Without wishing to doxx myself further on here than I have in the past, I can speak from experience on this.
I can't quite see the problem. If the school preaches Catholic (or other Christian) values explicitly, including weekly services with hymns, Christmas and Easter services, it suggests to me an impressive level of whatever the opposite of fundamentalism is amongst the students and families of a Muslim faith who quietly tolerate all the Christian stuff in order to get a good education.
I never said it was a problem, I just thought it was interesting.
Fair enough, and apologies.
I think it probablly says something interesting about the positive impact of mild religious values on the quality of education - a bit of a counter to the self-centredness and desire for instant gratification that hinders most teenagers from maximising their time at school.
I'm not sure I'd send my kids to a Catholic school specifically (too much inculcation of guilt and shame) but a religious school more generally? I'd be keen I think.
My daughter's in Year 6 so I did quite a bit of research on local schools when deciding where to apply to send her to.
Interestingly, as an atheist family, we'd be legally discriminated against in their priorities for the schools had we wanted to apply to send her there.
Catholic schools as an example can (and do) prioritise those practicing Catholicism first, but then can (and do) prioritise those practicing another religion ahead of those who are not practicing any.
So a practicing Muslim takes priority in a Catholic school over an agnostic or atheist.
Wow. That surely makes atheists the only group in Britain to be discriminated against under the law. Never thought of that.
They are also discriminated against by St Peter on the grounds of belief.. No entry to heaven.
Man, so many people are going to be gutted when they get to the gates of heaven, and discover it was the Mormons who were right.
We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.
Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.
The success of Clarkson’s Farm concludes another very different argument
Around the time Clarkson got kicked off Top Gear we had a lot of debate about it. I remember dear @Roger saying, as cluelessly as ever, “these comedians are two a penny, the BBC is brilliant at renewing shows, he’s no loss, the show will come back better than ever”
Oops. Several of us told him at the time that Clarkson was irreplaceable but he wasn’t having it
Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
In very general terms people who don't get Clarksons appeal don't get British Society and people
Totally agree.
The same could be said for people not getting the appeal of Boris, pre his PMship, as well....
When you watch that Robin reliant video - I may have mentioned it - you see Clarkson interacting with ex miners and working class northerners. He totally gets them and they totally get him. There is zero sense of him mocking them, indeed the whole video is a paean to northern England in all its muck and brass, most especially it’s a tribute to the people - able to laugh at themselves, along with Clarkson
Boris had some of that ability and insight, but blew it all up. Quite a shame
Maybe Clarkson should have been Conservative Party leader?
Every time I log on it seems TSE is warning people about being abusive or risking libel action for the site. Tbh can't be long before it closes at this rate.
Every time I log on it seems TSE is warning people about being abusive or risking libel action for the site. Tbh can't be long before it closes at this rate.
Please do not libel the mods. I got sued by TSE once, and it was an experience I would not want to repeat.
There's a number of Catholic schools now that have far more practicing Muslim pupils than practicing Catholic ones.
Sounds like integration to me. What more do people want?
Without wishing to doxx myself further on here than I have in the past, I can speak from experience on this.
I can't quite see the problem. If the school preaches Catholic (or other Christian) values explicitly, including weekly services with hymns, Christmas and Easter services, it suggests to me an impressive level of whatever the opposite of fundamentalism is amongst the students and families of a Muslim faith who quietly tolerate all the Christian stuff in order to get a good education.
I never said it was a problem, I just thought it was interesting.
Fair enough, and apologies.
I think it probablly says something interesting about the positive impact of mild religious values on the quality of education - a bit of a counter to the self-centredness and desire for instant gratification that hinders most teenagers from maximising their time at school.
I'm not sure I'd send my kids to a Catholic school specifically (too much inculcation of guilt and shame) but a religious school more generally? I'd be keen I think.
My daughter's in Year 6 so I did quite a bit of research on local schools when deciding where to apply to send her to.
Interestingly, as an atheist family, we'd be legally discriminated against in their priorities for the schools had we wanted to apply to send her there.
Catholic schools as an example can (and do) prioritise those practicing Catholicism first, but then can (and do) prioritise those practicing another religion ahead of those who are not practicing any.
So a practicing Muslim takes priority in a Catholic school over an agnostic or atheist.
Wow. That surely makes atheists the only group in Britain to be discriminated against under the law. Never thought of that.
They are also discriminated against by St Peter on the grounds of belief.. No entry to heaven.
Of course the difference between heaven, St Peter and schools is the last one actually exists.
Ah no, I stand corrected. The "lunar standstill" is when the moon's range of rising and setting and most extreme. The earth's tilt in telation to the moon's orbit.
We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.
Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.
The success of Clarkson’s Farm concludes another very different argument
Around the time Clarkson got kicked off Top Gear we had a lot of debate about it. I remember dear @Roger saying, as cluelessly as ever, “these comedians are two a penny, the BBC is brilliant at renewing shows, he’s no loss, the show will come back better than ever”
Oops. Several of us told him at the time that Clarkson was irreplaceable but he wasn’t having it
Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
In very general terms people who don't get Clarksons appeal don't get British Society and people
A society full of people who think that Clarkson is anything other than a total arsehole is not a society that I want to be part of.
Society that's with anything needs to accommodate both sets of people.
It won't make any difference, because people in Red states won't believe it. Just as people in Red states believe that Democratic states have more crime than Republican ones, when the opposite is true.
Beliefs about reality follow prejudices, they do not change them.
It won't make any difference, because America is polarising on racial lines. As I said last night. And it is critical to understand this - this is, in fact, the crucial insight into all western politics today. Once you understand it, everything makes sense
I am aware this upsets some of the forum, but it is the case. White people are beginning to vote on the basis of their own identity; it has long been happening in America but is now intensifying there, and this is in turn spreading to Europe. Because it is the inevitable endpoint of mass immigration and multiculturalism. You cannot celebrate difference and diversity and minorities and obsess about skin colour, without, in the end, White people saying "Hey I have an identity, too, I have a colour, when do I get celebrated"?
It's not a happy evolution. If it continues there will be much trouble. The Danish Social Democrats show a way forward that is not violent, just firm
"The country where the left (not the far right) made hardline immigration laws"
"BBC Journalist asks Danish Politician how Denmark is able to maintain trust in its Democracy - “Give voters what they want. If they want lower immigration lower it”"
There's a number of Catholic schools now that have far more practicing Muslim pupils than practicing Catholic ones.
Sounds like integration to me. What more do people want?
Without wishing to doxx myself further on here than I have in the past, I can speak from experience on this.
I can't quite see the problem. If the school preaches Catholic (or other Christian) values explicitly, including weekly services with hymns, Christmas and Easter services, it suggests to me an impressive level of whatever the opposite of fundamentalism is amongst the students and families of a Muslim faith who quietly tolerate all the Christian stuff in order to get a good education.
I never said it was a problem, I just thought it was interesting.
Fair enough, and apologies.
I think it probablly says something interesting about the positive impact of mild religious values on the quality of education - a bit of a counter to the self-centredness and desire for instant gratification that hinders most teenagers from maximising their time at school.
I'm not sure I'd send my kids to a Catholic school specifically (too much inculcation of guilt and shame) but a religious school more generally? I'd be keen I think.
My daughter's in Year 6 so I did quite a bit of research on local schools when deciding where to apply to send her to.
Interestingly, as an atheist family, we'd be legally discriminated against in their priorities for the schools had we wanted to apply to send her there.
Catholic schools as an example can (and do) prioritise those practicing Catholicism first, but then can (and do) prioritise those practicing another religion ahead of those who are not practicing any.
So a practicing Muslim takes priority in a Catholic school over an agnostic or atheist.
Wow. That surely makes atheists the only group in Britain to be discriminated against under the law. Never thought of that.
They are also discriminated against by St Peter on the grounds of belief.. No entry to heaven.
Man, so many people are going to be gutted when they get to the gates of heaven, and discover it was the Mormons who were right.
If it means that I can avoid having to spend all eternity making small talk with 1000 generations of relatives, then I'm quite happy to be excluded from 'paradise'.
We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.
Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.
The success of Clarkson’s Farm concludes another very different argument
Around the time Clarkson got kicked off Top Gear we had a lot of debate about it. I remember dear @Roger saying, as cluelessly as ever, “these comedians are two a penny, the BBC is brilliant at renewing shows, he’s no loss, the show will come back better than ever”
Oops. Several of us told him at the time that Clarkson was irreplaceable but he wasn’t having it
Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
In very general terms people who don't get Clarksons appeal don't get British Society and people
Totally agree.
The same could be said for people not getting the appeal of Boris, pre his PMship, as well....
When you watch that Robin reliant video - I may have mentioned it - you see Clarkson interacting with ex miners and working class northerners. He totally gets them and they totally get him. There is zero sense of him mocking them, indeed the whole video is a paean to northern England in all its muck and brass, most especially it’s a tribute to the people - able to laugh at themselves, along with Clarkson
Boris had some of that ability and insight, but blew it all up. Quite a shame
Maybe Clarkson should have been Conservative Party leader?
He'd have got bored very quickly but yes he would have been much better than every Tory leader since Thatch
Ah no, I stand corrected. The "lunar standstill" is when the moon's range of rising and setting and most extreme. The earth's tilt in telation to the moon's orbit.
*is most extreme*, that should say. But maybe that means the moon' is a bit closer, too ? I'm unclear as to why the moon would be larger, otherwise.
Farage is back in full control of Reform, Zia is out as director. So, not 'workload pressure' then Nige?
I'm not sure why he would still be a Director when he has resigned as Chairman? Clearly he wants out - it would be weird if he retained a position within the setup.
Its more a comment on what the party hierarchy have said about why he left - Farage, Tice and Oakeshott pushing the line that he found the workload too much - if it were simply that there would be no need to immediately step down as director, just as Chairman. Its obvious that wasn't it from what he said and that Farage, Tice etc are being 'nice' to try and lance the boil. We await the Sundays with interest given his silence since that tweet and some of the, shall we say, rather less charitable comments from the likes of Banks etc
What to do we know?
Yusuf had been a bit erratic. He made a claim about DEI savings that apparently he couldn't substantiate either during the interview or after it. He made a further claim about specific savings at KCC that apparently wasn't supported by the Reform leader of KCC. According to Camilla Tominey, a briefing she had had with Yusuf was unexpectedly attended by Farage, which Yusuf apparently wasn't overjoyed about.
That seems to me to be someone who is overworked and stressed out, and getting to be a bit of a concern.
Then into that, you get Sarah Poachin's Burqa question, and his Tweet calling it 'dumb'.
It seems to me that he expected (wholly unrealistically in my opinion) Nigel to support him against Poachin the way that he'd supported him against Lowe. But Nigel could never have done that - you can't call an MP dumb on social media for asking a question in the Commons and have that be OK.
So Nigel didn't support him, and as a result he left (is my theory).
I would be somewhat surprised if he goes to the Sundays to throw shit at Reform. I am sure he has plenty of shit to throw (anyone that high up in any party would), but I just don't see him doing it.
We will of course see but there were certainly some interesting reactions - Lee Andersons non thanks and Arron Banks (who is of course on the DOGE squad) suggest a deeper rift in the hierarchy. Im not sure he'll go for Reform but certain figures within it. He's been getting trashed left right and centre by some Reformers (and thanked by others), i can't see him shrugging off the attacks. If not now a lot of shit will come out during Rupert Lowes action against them.
Sigh.
It's a shame.
However, growing pains. Reform are the equivalent of a 6ft 3-year old just now. It can't all be smooth sailing.
Absolutely. And as they seem set to become a factor or maybe even a government they need to learn how to 'be' without psychodrama. Too much, too fast, there's an awful lot of people filling in the blank page and not from the same intent. They will be a powderkeg for some time The Tories have been since at least 1990 and Labour since the 70s, after all
Reform do have a big problem coming which is that they still don’t have a coherent ideology outside of their key aims of reducing immigration and being anti woke.
What exactly do Reform want to be? Old Labour protectionists? Cost-cutting small government freewheelers? Big spenders? Tories in all but name?
The fact that they are new entrants in a deeply discredited party system and they major on immigration and culture topics gets them a fair step along the road to success, but before long if they desire power they are going to have to start thinking about their overall message. Farage’s tendencies are towards small-state, low tax neo-Thatcherism, I think. I’m not convinced his more high-spending tack of late is anything other than intended to shoot Labour foxes and solidify his appeal with the red wall. But you can’t run a party forever on contradictions. The Tories found that post 2019.
Post 2019 the Tories were in Downing Street.
Pre-2024 Starmer's Labour didn't have a coherent ideology either, hence the Ming Vase strategy. They can't do that in office, but post-2024 they were in Downing Street.
If Farage can copy Starmer's Ming Vase strategy and only resolve the contradictions once he's Prime Minister, I'm sure he can live with that.
The bigger problem for the party is the sheer number of voters that Farage is utterly repellent to.
Since he got into office, he's been dropping that Ming Vase all over the place.
We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.
Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.
The success of Clarkson’s Farm concludes another very different argument
Around the time Clarkson got kicked off Top Gear we had a lot of debate about it. I remember dear @Roger saying, as cluelessly as ever, “these comedians are two a penny, the BBC is brilliant at renewing shows, he’s no loss, the show will come back better than ever”
Oops. Several of us told him at the time that Clarkson was irreplaceable but he wasn’t having it
Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
In very general terms people who don't get Clarksons appeal don't get British Society and people
A society full of people who think that Clarkson is anything other than a total arsehole is not a society that I want to be part of.
Society that's with anything needs to accommodate both sets of people.
Yes, both sets of people.
Set one who think that Clarkson is a total arsehole.
We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.
Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.
The success of Clarkson’s Farm concludes another very different argument
Around the time Clarkson got kicked off Top Gear we had a lot of debate about it. I remember dear @Roger saying, as cluelessly as ever, “these comedians are two a penny, the BBC is brilliant at renewing shows, he’s no loss, the show will come back better than ever”
Oops. Several of us told him at the time that Clarkson was irreplaceable but he wasn’t having it
Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
In very general terms people who don't get Clarksons appeal don't get British Society and people
A society full of people who think that Clarkson is anything other than a total arsehole is not a society that I want to be part of.
Society that's with anything needs to accommodate both sets of people.
Yes, both sets of people.
Set one who think that Clarkson is a total arsehole.
It won't make any difference, because people in Red states won't believe it. Just as people in Red states believe that Democratic states have more crime than Republican ones, when the opposite is true.
Beliefs about reality follow prejudices, they do not change them.
It won't make any difference, because America is polarising on racial lines. As I said last night. And it is critical to understand this - this is, in fact, the crucial insight into all western politics today. Once you understand it, everything makes sense
I am aware this upsets some of the forum, but it is the case. White people are beginning to vote on the basis of their own identity; it has long been happening in America but is now intensifying there, and this is in turn spreading to Europe. Because it is the inevitable endpoint of mass immigration and multiculturalism. You cannot celebrate difference and diversity and minorities and obsess about skin colour, without, in the end, White people saying "Hey I have an identity, too, I have a colour, when do I get celebrated"?
It's not a happy evolution. If it continues there will be much trouble. The Danish Social Democrats show a way forward that is not violent, just firm
"The country where the left (not the far right) made hardline immigration laws"
"BBC Journalist asks Danish Politician how Denmark is able to maintain trust in its Democracy - “Give voters what they want. If they want lower immigration lower it”"
We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.
Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.
The success of Clarkson’s Farm concludes another very different argument
Around the time Clarkson got kicked off Top Gear we had a lot of debate about it. I remember dear @Roger saying, as cluelessly as ever, “these comedians are two a penny, the BBC is brilliant at renewing shows, he’s no loss, the show will come back better than ever”
Oops. Several of us told him at the time that Clarkson was irreplaceable but he wasn’t having it
Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
In very general terms people who don't get Clarksons appeal don't get British Society and people
A society full of people who think that Clarkson is anything other than a total arsehole is not a society that I want to be part of.
Society that's with anything needs to accommodate both sets of people.
Yes, both sets of people.
Set one who think that Clarkson is a total arsehole.
And set two who think that Clarkson is a c word.
Top Gear was the most popular TV show in the world, and astoundingly popular in the UK (for a niche car show). At its peak it regularly got 8m+ viewers. 8 million! The BBC would kill to get that many viewers today, for anything other than live sport
Here are the ratings for the last week in the UK. The top spot is Race Around the World. 5.5m viewers. Way down on peak Top Gear
Look who is in 2nd and 4th place and 6th place and 13th place. Jeremy Clarkson
I think apology is meaningless without an intent to change.
Is there a commitment to sound money and an end to deficit spending?
A government (or potential government) committed to living within our means would be a novelty that we haven't seen for decades.
I'm unsure there's a commitment for 'sound money and an end to deficit spending' from any political party. Or, that there could be, given the situation the country finds itself in.
I don't know what the answer is for our economic woes, especially given the current world situation. But it'd be good if we all agreed that there are no easy answers, and it will involve all of us suffering to some extent.
What we need is £75bn of additional taxes and ) £75bn of cuts. Piece of cake.
Such cuts will require reductions in public sector pensions in payment and severe restrictions on their entitlements. And more political balls than any politician has shown since the Howe budget of the early 80s.
David , depends where tax rises fall, that usually does not help spending/growth. Otherwise agreed.
There is no point in pretending that tax rises like that are not going to hit growth. They are. But we desperately need to rebalance our finances at a time and way of our own choosing or the market will eventually do it for us.
Reeves 'balanced the books' after a fashion. But she did so by badly undermining growth in the economy. The economy making money is the key linchpin - even more important than sound public finances. Classic 'give a man a fish' principles. Yes, we need fiscal prudence and sound money. But that cannot come at the expense of economic growth, or you go into a death spiral and your carefully balanced books quickly become unbalanced again.
It won't make any difference, because people in Red states won't believe it. Just as people in Red states believe that Democratic states have more crime than Republican ones, when the opposite is true.
Beliefs about reality follow prejudices, they do not change them.
It won't make any difference, because America is polarising on racial lines. As I said last night. And it is critical to understand this - this is, in fact, the crucial insight into all western politics today. Once you understand it, everything makes sense
I am aware this upsets some of the forum, but it is the case. White people are beginning to vote on the basis of their own identity; it has long been happening in America but is now intensifying there, and this is in turn spreading to Europe. Because it is the inevitable endpoint of mass immigration and multiculturalism. You cannot celebrate difference and diversity and minorities and obsess about skin colour, without, in the end, White people saying "Hey I have an identity, too, I have a colour, when do I get celebrated"?
It's not a happy evolution. If it continues there will be much trouble. The Danish Social Democrats show a way forward that is not violent, just firm
"The country where the left (not the far right) made hardline immigration laws"
"BBC Journalist asks Danish Politician how Denmark is able to maintain trust in its Democracy - “Give voters what they want. If they want lower immigration lower it”"
Yes, if every government just followed what the Danish Social Democrats have done, most of our problems would be solved.
Yes, quite
It's not like this is some massive puzzle which no one can solve. How do we stop the rise of the far right! We are helpless!
No, you're not helpless. Denmark is showing exactly what you do - and it works. The Daniosh government saw a problem, they heard the voters, they got it fixed. At the last election the Danish Far Right basically vanished. People do not WANT to vote Far Right, they do it out of despair
We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.
Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.
Yes, quite
There’s a discussion above about “hating politicians”. I agree that hatred is a distressing emotion and generally negative for all, nevertheless if I had to describe my emotions about this government and its leader it would come uncomfortably close to “hatred”
They are damaging and impoverishing us as a country, a people, and a culture - and they do it quite overtly. They barely try to hide it. They clearly despise us - and me - so I despise them right back
Do you and Max prepare your Victor Meldrew/Alf Garnet posts before coming on here or do you just feed off each other? You've always been what you are but I'm sure there was a time when Max was civilised and with an impressive understanding of economics
However much you suck up to the Hamas supporting flag wavers, you're still Jewish and gay, Roger. They will push you off the building to your death the same as those they killed without mercy on October 7th. Maybe you're so deluded or brainwashed that you think they'd spare you but they won't. I guess you'd walk up to the precipice having realised what you enabled but I'm not so sure.
There's far too much abuse on PB directed towards other posters recently, so I am going to nip this in the bud from now on.
No swearing at other PBers, including asterisked out words and no such comments as telling others to have a wank.
The spam trap will be updated shortly, so if you get banned automatically you have been warned.
PB is a place for robust discussions but not being abusive towards each other.
Er...
I'm not being abusive, it's just the truth of what it is. I haven't called Roger any names or insulted him in any way as far as I can see. I'll happily delete it if TSE asks though.
Meh, reading it again, maybe you're right, and I'm uncomfortable with using TSE's site notice to close down debate, so please feel free to ignore me.
But given the discussion was nothing to do with Hamas, but rather about the relative woefulness of our current government, it felt unnecessarily hostile.
Ad hom, which this was, is poor argument, certainly. But it's permitted.
Just treat it with the very little respect it deserves.
It won't make any difference, because people in Red states won't believe it. Just as people in Red states believe that Democratic states have more crime than Republican ones, when the opposite is true.
Beliefs about reality follow prejudices, they do not change them.
It won't make any difference, because America is polarising on racial lines. As I said last night. And it is critical to understand this - this is, in fact, the crucial insight into all western politics today. Once you understand it, everything makes sense
I am aware this upsets some of the forum, but it is the case. White people are beginning to vote on the basis of their own identity; it has long been happening in America but is now intensifying there, and this is in turn spreading to Europe. Because it is the inevitable endpoint of mass immigration and multiculturalism. You cannot celebrate difference and diversity and minorities and obsess about skin colour, without, in the end, White people saying "Hey I have an identity, too, I have a colour, when do I get celebrated"?
It's not a happy evolution. If it continues there will be much trouble. The Danish Social Democrats show a way forward that is not violent, just firm
"The country where the left (not the far right) made hardline immigration laws"
"BBC Journalist asks Danish Politician how Denmark is able to maintain trust in its Democracy - “Give voters what they want. If they want lower immigration lower it”"
Every time I log on it seems TSE is warning people about being abusive or risking libel action for the site. Tbh can't be long before it closes at this rate.
Please do not libel the mods. I got sued by TSE once, and it was an experience I would not want to repeat.
I'd like to make clear my deep admiration for his modesty and dress sense.
Along with respect for that fine set of musicians, Radiohead.
We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.
Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.
The success of Clarkson’s Farm concludes another very different argument
Around the time Clarkson got kicked off Top Gear we had a lot of debate about it. I remember dear @Roger saying, as cluelessly as ever, “these comedians are two a penny, the BBC is brilliant at renewing shows, he’s no loss, the show will come back better than ever”
Oops. Several of us told him at the time that Clarkson was irreplaceable but he wasn’t having it
Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
In very general terms people who don't get Clarksons appeal don't get British Society and people
Totally agree.
The same could be said for people not getting the appeal of Boris, pre his PMship, as well....
When you watch that Robin reliant video - I may have mentioned it - you see Clarkson interacting with ex miners and working class northerners. He totally gets them and they totally get him. There is zero sense of him mocking them, indeed the whole video is a paean to northern England in all its muck and brass, most especially it’s a tribute to the people - able to laugh at themselves, along with Clarkson
Boris had some of that ability and insight, but blew it all up. Quite a shame
Maybe Clarkson should have been Conservative Party leader?
He'd have got bored very quickly but yes he would have been much better than every Tory leader since Thatch
He's like Boris, with a work ethic.
Ok, Remainy, not Leavey, but still fairly centre-right.
Also seems to command some loyalty, unlike Boris (excepting his die-hards).
There's a number of Catholic schools now that have far more practicing Muslim pupils than practicing Catholic ones.
Sounds like integration to me. What more do people want?
Without wishing to doxx myself further on here than I have in the past, I can speak from experience on this.
I can't quite see the problem. If the school preaches Catholic (or other Christian) values explicitly, including weekly services with hymns, Christmas and Easter services, it suggests to me an impressive level of whatever the opposite of fundamentalism is amongst the students and families of a Muslim faith who quietly tolerate all the Christian stuff in order to get a good education.
I never said it was a problem, I just thought it was interesting.
Fair enough, and apologies.
I think it probablly says something interesting about the positive impact of mild religious values on the quality of education - a bit of a counter to the self-centredness and desire for instant gratification that hinders most teenagers from maximising their time at school.
I'm not sure I'd send my kids to a Catholic school specifically (too much inculcation of guilt and shame) but a religious school more generally? I'd be keen I think.
My daughter's in Year 6 so I did quite a bit of research on local schools when deciding where to apply to send her to.
Interestingly, as an atheist family, we'd be legally discriminated against in their priorities for the schools had we wanted to apply to send her there.
Catholic schools as an example can (and do) prioritise those practicing Catholicism first, but then can (and do) prioritise those practicing another religion ahead of those who are not practicing any.
So a practicing Muslim takes priority in a Catholic school over an agnostic or atheist.
So what? If all practising Roman Catholic pupils who want places have been admitted then Catholic schools may have a few places for practising C of E, Baptist, Methodist and Pentecostal pupils and other Christian pupils and if a few left after that for practising Muslims, fellow believers at least in the God of Abraham.
They have no need to find places for confirmed atheists like you who have plenty of secular, non faith schools your children can go to
We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.
Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.
The success of Clarkson’s Farm concludes another very different argument
Around the time Clarkson got kicked off Top Gear we had a lot of debate about it. I remember dear @Roger saying, as cluelessly as ever, “these comedians are two a penny, the BBC is brilliant at renewing shows, he’s no loss, the show will come back better than ever”
Oops. Several of us told him at the time that Clarkson was irreplaceable but he wasn’t having it
Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
In very general terms people who don't get Clarksons appeal don't get British Society and people
Totally agree.
The same could be said for people not getting the appeal of Boris, pre his PMship, as well....
When you watch that Robin reliant video - I may have mentioned it - you see Clarkson interacting with ex miners and working class northerners. He totally gets them and they totally get him. There is zero sense of him mocking them, indeed the whole video is a paean to northern England in all its muck and brass, most especially it’s a tribute to the people - able to laugh at themselves, along with Clarkson
Boris had some of that ability and insight, but blew it all up. Quite a shame
Maybe Clarkson should have been Conservative Party leader?
He'd have got bored very quickly but yes he would have been much better than every Tory leader since Thatch
He's like Boris, with a work ethic.
Ok, Remainy, not Leavey, but still fairly centre-right.
Also seems to command some loyalty, unlike Boris (excepting his die-hards).
I think the Tory turd might require a slightly deeper polish than just employing the services of a popular TV personality.
Farage is back in full control of Reform, Zia is out as director. So, not 'workload pressure' then Nige?
I'm not sure why he would still be a Director when he has resigned as Chairman? Clearly he wants out - it would be weird if he retained a position within the setup.
Its more a comment on what the party hierarchy have said about why he left - Farage, Tice and Oakeshott pushing the line that he found the workload too much - if it were simply that there would be no need to immediately step down as director, just as Chairman. Its obvious that wasn't it from what he said and that Farage, Tice etc are being 'nice' to try and lance the boil. We await the Sundays with interest given his silence since that tweet and some of the, shall we say, rather less charitable comments from the likes of Banks etc
What to do we know?
Yusuf had been a bit erratic. He made a claim about DEI savings that apparently he couldn't substantiate either during the interview or after it. He made a further claim about specific savings at KCC that apparently wasn't supported by the Reform leader of KCC. According to Camilla Tominey, a briefing she had had with Yusuf was unexpectedly attended by Farage, which Yusuf apparently wasn't overjoyed about.
That seems to me to be someone who is overworked and stressed out, and getting to be a bit of a concern.
Then into that, you get Sarah Poachin's Burqa question, and his Tweet calling it 'dumb'.
It seems to me that he expected (wholly unrealistically in my opinion) Nigel to support him against Poachin the way that he'd supported him against Lowe. But Nigel could never have done that - you can't call an MP dumb on social media for asking a question in the Commons and have that be OK.
So Nigel didn't support him, and as a result he left (is my theory).
I would be somewhat surprised if he goes to the Sundays to throw shit at Reform. I am sure he has plenty of shit to throw (anyone that high up in any party would), but I just don't see him doing it.
We will of course see but there were certainly some interesting reactions - Lee Andersons non thanks and Arron Banks (who is of course on the DOGE squad) suggest a deeper rift in the hierarchy. Im not sure he'll go for Reform but certain figures within it. He's been getting trashed left right and centre by some Reformers (and thanked by others), i can't see him shrugging off the attacks. If not now a lot of shit will come out during Rupert Lowes action against them.
Sigh.
It's a shame.
However, growing pains. Reform are the equivalent of a 6ft 3-year old just now. It can't all be smooth sailing.
Absolutely. And as they seem set to become a factor or maybe even a government they need to learn how to 'be' without psychodrama. Too much, too fast, there's an awful lot of people filling in the blank page and not from the same intent. They will be a powderkeg for some time The Tories have been since at least 1990 and Labour since the 70s, after all
Reform do have a big problem coming which is that they still don’t have a coherent ideology outside of their key aims of reducing immigration and being anti woke.
What exactly do Reform want to be? Old Labour protectionists? Cost-cutting small government freewheelers? Big spenders? Tories in all but name?
The fact that they are new entrants in a deeply discredited party system and they major on immigration and culture topics gets them a fair step along the road to success, but before long if they desire power they are going to have to start thinking about their overall message. Farage’s tendencies are towards small-state, low tax neo-Thatcherism, I think. I’m not convinced his more high-spending tack of late is anything other than intended to shoot Labour foxes and solidify his appeal with the red wall. But you can’t run a party forever on contradictions. The Tories found that post 2019.
Post 2019 the Tories were in Downing Street.
Pre-2024 Starmer's Labour didn't have a coherent ideology either, hence the Ming Vase strategy. They can't do that in office, but post-2024 they were in Downing Street.
If Farage can copy Starmer's Ming Vase strategy and only resolve the contradictions once he's Prime Minister, I'm sure he can live with that.
The bigger problem for the party is the sheer number of voters that Farage is utterly repellent to.
Since he got into office, he's been dropping that Ming Vase all over the place.
Farage is back in full control of Reform, Zia is out as director. So, not 'workload pressure' then Nige?
I'm not sure why he would still be a Director when he has resigned as Chairman? Clearly he wants out - it would be weird if he retained a position within the setup.
Its more a comment on what the party hierarchy have said about why he left - Farage, Tice and Oakeshott pushing the line that he found the workload too much - if it were simply that there would be no need to immediately step down as director, just as Chairman. Its obvious that wasn't it from what he said and that Farage, Tice etc are being 'nice' to try and lance the boil. We await the Sundays with interest given his silence since that tweet and some of the, shall we say, rather less charitable comments from the likes of Banks etc
What to do we know?
Yusuf had been a bit erratic. He made a claim about DEI savings that apparently he couldn't substantiate either during the interview or after it. He made a further claim about specific savings at KCC that apparently wasn't supported by the Reform leader of KCC. According to Camilla Tominey, a briefing she had had with Yusuf was unexpectedly attended by Farage, which Yusuf apparently wasn't overjoyed about.
That seems to me to be someone who is overworked and stressed out, and getting to be a bit of a concern.
Then into that, you get Sarah Poachin's Burqa question, and his Tweet calling it 'dumb'.
It seems to me that he expected (wholly unrealistically in my opinion) Nigel to support him against Poachin the way that he'd supported him against Lowe. But Nigel could never have done that - you can't call an MP dumb on social media for asking a question in the Commons and have that be OK.
So Nigel didn't support him, and as a result he left (is my theory).
I would be somewhat surprised if he goes to the Sundays to throw shit at Reform. I am sure he has plenty of shit to throw (anyone that high up in any party would), but I just don't see him doing it.
We will of course see but there were certainly some interesting reactions - Lee Andersons non thanks and Arron Banks (who is of course on the DOGE squad) suggest a deeper rift in the hierarchy. Im not sure he'll go for Reform but certain figures within it. He's been getting trashed left right and centre by some Reformers (and thanked by others), i can't see him shrugging off the attacks. If not now a lot of shit will come out during Rupert Lowes action against them.
Sigh.
It's a shame.
However, growing pains. Reform are the equivalent of a 6ft 3-year old just now. It can't all be smooth sailing.
Absolutely. And as they seem set to become a factor or maybe even a government they need to learn how to 'be' without psychodrama. Too much, too fast, there's an awful lot of people filling in the blank page and not from the same intent. They will be a powderkeg for some time The Tories have been since at least 1990 and Labour since the 70s, after all
Reform do have a big problem coming which is that they still don’t have a coherent ideology outside of their key aims of reducing immigration and being anti woke.
What exactly do Reform want to be? Old Labour protectionists? Cost-cutting small government freewheelers? Big spenders? Tories in all but name?
The fact that they are new entrants in a deeply discredited party system and they major on immigration and culture topics gets them a fair step along the road to success, but before long if they desire power they are going to have to start thinking about their overall message. Farage’s tendencies are towards small-state, low tax neo-Thatcherism, I think. I’m not convinced his more high-spending tack of late is anything other than intended to shoot Labour foxes and solidify his appeal with the red wall. But you can’t run a party forever on contradictions. The Tories found that post 2019.
Once you write a manifesto as a party actually aspiring to government - and that is the current trajectory however transitory - then there are limits to contradictions and speecifics to be analysed.
Some things are beyond doubt. Reform (if still in the running in 2029) will in fact be a high tax, high spend, welfarist, social democratic party like all other serious aspirants to government. It has no choice. Ask the voters of Clacton to list the free stuff and other stuff they want from government. Try taking it away from them. Little change out of £1.5 trillion.
It will aim, like all the othes to run it better, more competently and cheaper, and it will want nearly closed inward borders. The nearest thing to Old Labour available. Like current Labour it will think of a couple of gimmicks. Abolishing pensions and selling the NHS won't be amonmg them. Rainbow lanyards though may get an Act of Parliament all to themselves.
We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.
Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.
The success of Clarkson’s Farm concludes another very different argument
Around the time Clarkson got kicked off Top Gear we had a lot of debate about it. I remember dear @Roger saying, as cluelessly as ever, “these comedians are two a penny, the BBC is brilliant at renewing shows, he’s no loss, the show will come back better than ever”
Oops. Several of us told him at the time that Clarkson was irreplaceable but he wasn’t having it
Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
In very general terms people who don't get Clarksons appeal don't get British Society and people
Totally agree.
The same could be said for people not getting the appeal of Boris, pre his PMship, as well....
When you watch that Robin reliant video - I may have mentioned it - you see Clarkson interacting with ex miners and working class northerners. He totally gets them and they totally get him. There is zero sense of him mocking them, indeed the whole video is a paean to northern England in all its muck and brass, most especially it’s a tribute to the people - able to laugh at themselves, along with Clarkson
Boris had some of that ability and insight, but blew it all up. Quite a shame
Maybe Clarkson should have been Conservative Party leader?
He'd have got bored very quickly but yes he would have been much better than every Tory leader since Thatch
He's like Boris, with a work ethic.
Ok, Remainy, not Leavey, but still fairly centre-right.
Also seems to command some loyalty, unlike Boris (excepting his die-hards).
I think the Tory turd might require a slightly deeper polish than just employing the services of a popular TV personality.
Farage is back in full control of Reform, Zia is out as director. So, not 'workload pressure' then Nige?
I'm not sure why he would still be a Director when he has resigned as Chairman? Clearly he wants out - it would be weird if he retained a position within the setup.
Its more a comment on what the party hierarchy have said about why he left - Farage, Tice and Oakeshott pushing the line that he found the workload too much - if it were simply that there would be no need to immediately step down as director, just as Chairman. Its obvious that wasn't it from what he said and that Farage, Tice etc are being 'nice' to try and lance the boil. We await the Sundays with interest given his silence since that tweet and some of the, shall we say, rather less charitable comments from the likes of Banks etc
What to do we know?
Yusuf had been a bit erratic. He made a claim about DEI savings that apparently he couldn't substantiate either during the interview or after it. He made a further claim about specific savings at KCC that apparently wasn't supported by the Reform leader of KCC. According to Camilla Tominey, a briefing she had had with Yusuf was unexpectedly attended by Farage, which Yusuf apparently wasn't overjoyed about.
That seems to me to be someone who is overworked and stressed out, and getting to be a bit of a concern.
Then into that, you get Sarah Poachin's Burqa question, and his Tweet calling it 'dumb'.
It seems to me that he expected (wholly unrealistically in my opinion) Nigel to support him against Poachin the way that he'd supported him against Lowe. But Nigel could never have done that - you can't call an MP dumb on social media for asking a question in the Commons and have that be OK.
So Nigel didn't support him, and as a result he left (is my theory).
I would be somewhat surprised if he goes to the Sundays to throw shit at Reform. I am sure he has plenty of shit to throw (anyone that high up in any party would), but I just don't see him doing it.
We will of course see but there were certainly some interesting reactions - Lee Andersons non thanks and Arron Banks (who is of course on the DOGE squad) suggest a deeper rift in the hierarchy. Im not sure he'll go for Reform but certain figures within it. He's been getting trashed left right and centre by some Reformers (and thanked by others), i can't see him shrugging off the attacks. If not now a lot of shit will come out during Rupert Lowes action against them.
Sigh.
It's a shame.
However, growing pains. Reform are the equivalent of a 6ft 3-year old just now. It can't all be smooth sailing.
Absolutely. And as they seem set to become a factor or maybe even a government they need to learn how to 'be' without psychodrama. Too much, too fast, there's an awful lot of people filling in the blank page and not from the same intent. They will be a powderkeg for some time The Tories have been since at least 1990 and Labour since the 70s, after all
Reform do have a big problem coming which is that they still don’t have a coherent ideology outside of their key aims of reducing immigration and being anti woke.
What exactly do Reform want to be? Old Labour protectionists? Cost-cutting small government freewheelers? Big spenders? Tories in all but name?
The fact that they are new entrants in a deeply discredited party system and they major on immigration and culture topics gets them a fair step along the road to success, but before long if they desire power they are going to have to start thinking about their overall message. Farage’s tendencies are towards small-state, low tax neo-Thatcherism, I think. I’m not convinced his more high-spending tack of late is anything other than intended to shoot Labour foxes and solidify his appeal with the red wall. But you can’t run a party forever on contradictions. The Tories found that post 2019.
Their job is to stop virtually all immigration (and of course the boats), and indeed reverse the tide - as is being done in Denmark, Sweden and now Germany - remigration
If they do that I suspect the voters will forgive them anything - for one term. After that they will need other ideas
Voters wont even notice. Because of course, everything would still be the same.
Reform also have the problem of Farage. Various politicians like Le Pen and Meloni are better at working with others. There's no Trump-like Presidency.
We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.
Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.
The success of Clarkson’s Farm concludes another very different argument
Around the time Clarkson got kicked off Top Gear we had a lot of debate about it. I remember dear @Roger saying, as cluelessly as ever, “these comedians are two a penny, the BBC is brilliant at renewing shows, he’s no loss, the show will come back better than ever”
Oops. Several of us told him at the time that Clarkson was irreplaceable but he wasn’t having it
Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
In very general terms people who don't get Clarksons appeal don't get British Society and people
A society full of people who think that Clarkson is anything other than a total arsehole is not a society that I want to be part of.
Society that's with anything needs to accommodate both sets of people.
Yes, both sets of people.
Set one who think that Clarkson is a total arsehole.
And set two who think that Clarkson is a c word.
Top Gear was the most popular TV show in the world, and astoundingly popular in the UK (for a niche car show). At its peak it regularly got 8m+ viewers. 8 million! The BBC would kill to get that many viewers today, for anything other than live sport
Here are the ratings for the last week in the UK. The top spot is Race Around the World. 5.5m viewers. Way down on peak Top Gear
Look who is in 2nd and 4th place and 6th place and 13th place. Jeremy Clarkson
We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.
Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.
Yes, quite
There’s a discussion above about “hating politicians”. I agree that hatred is a distressing emotion and generally negative for all, nevertheless if I had to describe my emotions about this government and its leader it would come uncomfortably close to “hatred”
They are damaging and impoverishing us as a country, a people, and a culture - and they do it quite overtly. They barely try to hide it. They clearly despise us - and me - so I despise them right back
This tax is Labour's revenge on the countryside for voting to leave the EU. It raises a pitiful amount of money but it hurts the families and communities who gave city dwellers a black eye by voting to leave.
I think this government is among the most contemptible we've had. The Tories were mostly just incompetent, Labour are specifically targeting those people who they don't agree with and destroying family businesses out of spite.
Hate, despise, loathe are all strong words and yet all of them apply to this government. Honestly, if it's a straight up choice between Labour and Reform I'll probably go out and campaign for Reform. Labour can't be trusted with the economy, immigration or the beautiful countryside. They fail on all three counts.
The problem of tax dodging by buying agricultural land is a genuine issue. In 2023 the majority of agricultural land transfers were to non-farmers. As well as the lost revenue, this distorts the agricultural land market to the dis-benefit of genuine farmers.
There were a number of better ways to close the loophole discussed on here, including making the IHT deferred and payable if the land is sold within 10 or 25 years, being waived after that date. My own suggestion was to allow the agricultural IHT exemption only to estates where the deceased could demonstrate that their income was 50% or more from agricultural earnings. I am sure there are other possibilities that would close the loophole being used by Clarkson etc al, but spare genuine family farmers with assets of more than £3 million.
Frankly, I don't think it will shift many votes as it stands as few millionaire land owners were voting Labour anyway, let alone unseat Starmer.
Apologies to @TSE for my language at the tail end of last thread, but there are worse things in that thread than a few swear words.
Simpler - IHT is a charge on the land that is paid if sold. If it is inherited again, it doesn’t get doubled.
So if a farming family keeps the land for 500 years, no tax.
A tax shelter where you pay tax on exit… is no longer a tax shelter.
The current arrangements will increase the push to land owning by companies. Which will end up with a few mega landowning corporations. Probably, the CEOs of these will buy their way into the House of Lords.
Mega landowning corporations like the Duchy of Cornwall or the Duchy of Lancaster you mean?
We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.
Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.
The success of Clarkson’s Farm concludes another very different argument
Around the time Clarkson got kicked off Top Gear we had a lot of debate about it. I remember dear @Roger saying, as cluelessly as ever, “these comedians are two a penny, the BBC is brilliant at renewing shows, he’s no loss, the show will come back better than ever”
Oops. Several of us told him at the time that Clarkson was irreplaceable but he wasn’t having it
Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
In very general terms people who don't get Clarksons appeal don't get British Society and people
A society full of people who think that Clarkson is anything other than a total arsehole is not a society that I want to be part of.
Society that's with anything needs to accommodate both sets of people.
Yes, both sets of people.
Set one who think that Clarkson is a total arsehole.
And set two who think that Clarkson is a c word.
Top Gear was the most popular TV show in the world, and astoundingly popular in the UK (for a niche car show). At its peak it regularly got 8m+ viewers. 8 million! The BBC would kill to get that many viewers today, for anything other than live sport
Here are the ratings for the last week in the UK. The top spot is Race Around the World. 5.5m viewers. Way down on peak Top Gear
Look who is in 2nd and 4th place and 6th place and 13th place. Jeremy Clarkson
Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
The inexorable rise of automotive YouTube killed TG (and his stupid Amazon shit) not Jexit.
Harry's Garage does reviews way better than TG ever did. Haggard Garage, etc. did the arsing about way better than TG ever did. Whatever your automotive niche fetish is, you can get a far more informed and in-depth version of it on YouTube. The remaining and dwindling audience for TG/GT was lightweight car enthusiasts who don't know what Instant Centre is and don't even own multiple piston ring compressors.
Disclaimer: never seen a full episode of TG or the stupid Amazon shit but I can still authoritatively disclaim upon them.
lol
Top Gear with Clarkson & Co was literally the biggest TV show in the world. Not biggest car show on TV, biggest TV show of any kind. Bought by dozens of countries, with multiple international spin offs, it generated tens of millions for the BBC every year
Why? Because it wasn’t a car show at all. It was a self satirising comedy about three middle aged men with hobbies and rivalries - and yet a friendship beneath it
That’s why all the spin offs tried to copy it to the last old geezer detail
"And on that bombshell, good night!"
If the BBC wasn’t full of such pathetic Woke wankers, they could have kept Clarkson - and now they’d have a massive hit in Clarkson’s Farm
But the BBC is full of woke wankers so they didn’t and they haven’t
I refer the Honourable PBer to the answer given by Mr J Clarkson. The BBC wanted the production office to be based in Scotland. Bureaucracy rather than woke, perhaps. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3QCO0uNNpJk
Any Derby tips for tomorrow then? I'm going for Lazy Griff..partly for the name, partly because it came 2nd in the Chester Vase and partly because it's available at 100/1..Im sure it will go as well as pb.coms Hamilton predictions..😚
Hope you did it each-way. A £300 forecast as well, since the Derby result was the same 1-2 as the Chester Vase.
Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
The inexorable rise of automotive YouTube killed TG (and his stupid Amazon shit) not Jexit.
Harry's Garage does reviews way better than TG ever did. Haggard Garage, etc. did the arsing about way better than TG ever did. Whatever your automotive niche fetish is, you can get a far more informed and in-depth version of it on YouTube. The remaining and dwindling audience for TG/GT was lightweight car enthusiasts who don't know what Instant Centre is and don't even own multiple piston ring compressors.
Disclaimer: never seen a full episode of TG or the stupid Amazon shit but I can still authoritatively disclaim upon them.
lol
Top Gear with Clarkson & Co was literally the biggest TV show in the world. Not biggest car show on TV, biggest TV show of any kind. Bought by dozens of countries, with multiple international spin offs, it generated tens of millions for the BBC every year
Why? Because it wasn’t a car show at all. It was a self satirising comedy about three middle aged men with hobbies and rivalries - and yet a friendship beneath it
That’s why all the spin offs tried to copy it to the last old geezer detail
"And on that bombshell, good night!"
If the BBC wasn’t full of such pathetic Woke wankers, they could have kept Clarkson - and now they’d have a massive hit in Clarkson’s Farm
But the BBC is full of woke wankers so they didn’t and they haven’t
I refer the Honourable PBer to the answer given by Mr J Clarkson. The BBC wanted the production office to be based in Scotland. Bureaucracy rather than woke, perhaps. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3QCO0uNNpJk
Public sector organisations are driven by public policy.
We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.
Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.
The success of Clarkson’s Farm concludes another very different argument
Around the time Clarkson got kicked off Top Gear we had a lot of debate about it. I remember dear @Roger saying, as cluelessly as ever, “these comedians are two a penny, the BBC is brilliant at renewing shows, he’s no loss, the show will come back better than ever”
Oops. Several of us told him at the time that Clarkson was irreplaceable but he wasn’t having it
Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
In very general terms people who don't get Clarksons appeal don't get British Society and people
A society full of people who think that Clarkson is anything other than a total arsehole is not a society that I want to be part of.
Society that's with anything needs to accommodate both sets of people.
Yes, both sets of people.
Set one who think that Clarkson is a total arsehole.
And set two who think that Clarkson is a c word.
Top Gear was the most popular TV show in the world, and astoundingly popular in the UK (for a niche car show). At its peak it regularly got 8m+ viewers. 8 million! The BBC would kill to get that many viewers today, for anything other than live sport
Here are the ratings for the last week in the UK. The top spot is Race Around the World. 5.5m viewers. Way down on peak Top Gear
Look who is in 2nd and 4th place and 6th place and 13th place. Jeremy Clarkson
Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
The inexorable rise of automotive YouTube killed TG (and his stupid Amazon shit) not Jexit.
Harry's Garage does reviews way better than TG ever did. Haggard Garage, etc. did the arsing about way better than TG ever did. Whatever your automotive niche fetish is, you can get a far more informed and in-depth version of it on YouTube. The remaining and dwindling audience for TG/GT was lightweight car enthusiasts who don't know what Instant Centre is and don't even own multiple piston ring compressors.
Disclaimer: never seen a full episode of TG or the stupid Amazon shit but I can still authoritatively disclaim upon them.
lol
Top Gear with Clarkson & Co was literally the biggest TV show in the world. Not biggest car show on TV, biggest TV show of any kind. Bought by dozens of countries, with multiple international spin offs, it generated tens of millions for the BBC every year
Why? Because it wasn’t a car show at all. It was a self satirising comedy about three middle aged men with hobbies and rivalries - and yet a friendship beneath it
That’s why all the spin offs tried to copy it to the last old geezer detail
It was the petrolhead equivalent of Last Of The Summer Wine. You had the pompous silverback, the sardonic Englishman, and the bouncy man child. Every week they got into scrapes, had an adventure, and went home.
Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
The inexorable rise of automotive YouTube killed TG (and his stupid Amazon shit) not Jexit.
Harry's Garage does reviews way better than TG ever did. Haggard Garage, etc. did the arsing about way better than TG ever did. Whatever your automotive niche fetish is, you can get a far more informed and in-depth version of it on YouTube. The remaining and dwindling audience for TG/GT was lightweight car enthusiasts who don't know what Instant Centre is and don't even own multiple piston ring compressors.
Disclaimer: never seen a full episode of TG or the stupid Amazon shit but I can still authoritatively disclaim upon them.
lol
Top Gear with Clarkson & Co was literally the biggest TV show in the world. Not biggest car show on TV, biggest TV show of any kind. Bought by dozens of countries, with multiple international spin offs, it generated tens of millions for the BBC every year
Why? Because it wasn’t a car show at all. It was a self satirising comedy about three middle aged men with hobbies and rivalries - and yet a friendship beneath it
That’s why all the spin offs tried to copy it to the last old geezer detail
It was the petrolhead equivalent of Last Of The Summer Wine. You had the pompous silverback, the sardonic Englishman, and the bouncy man child. Every week they got into scrapes, had an adventure, and went home.
We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.
Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.
The success of Clarkson’s Farm concludes another very different argument
Around the time Clarkson got kicked off Top Gear we had a lot of debate about it. I remember dear @Roger saying, as cluelessly as ever, “these comedians are two a penny, the BBC is brilliant at renewing shows, he’s no loss, the show will come back better than ever”
Oops. Several of us told him at the time that Clarkson was irreplaceable but he wasn’t having it
Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
In very general terms people who don't get Clarksons appeal don't get British Society and people
A society full of people who think that Clarkson is anything other than a total arsehole is not a society that I want to be part of.
Society that's with anything needs to accommodate both sets of people.
Yes, both sets of people.
Set one who think that Clarkson is a total arsehole.
And set two who think that Clarkson is a c word.
Top Gear was the most popular TV show in the world, and astoundingly popular in the UK (for a niche car show). At its peak it regularly got 8m+ viewers. 8 million! The BBC would kill to get that many viewers today, for anything other than live sport
Here are the ratings for the last week in the UK. The top spot is Race Around the World. 5.5m viewers. Way down on peak Top Gear
Look who is in 2nd and 4th place and 6th place and 13th place. Jeremy Clarkson
They just ripped the format from Last of the Summer Wine, made the three guys a bit younger, and added cars.
So presumably...
James May is Clegg: musing, grammar-school type. Richard Hammond is Foggy: militaristic. Jeremy Clarkson is Compo: emotionally impulsive funny-man in wellies.
We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.
Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.
Yes, quite
There’s a discussion above about “hating politicians”. I agree that hatred is a distressing emotion and generally negative for all, nevertheless if I had to describe my emotions about this government and its leader it would come uncomfortably close to “hatred”
They are damaging and impoverishing us as a country, a people, and a culture - and they do it quite overtly. They barely try to hide it. They clearly despise us - and me - so I despise them right back
Do you and Max prepare your Victor Meldrew/Alf Garnet posts before coming on here or do you just feed off each other? You've always been what you are but I'm sure there was a time when Max was civilised and with an impressive understanding of economics
However much you suck up to the Hamas supporting flag wavers, you're still Jewish and gay, Roger. They will push you off the building to your death the same as those they killed without mercy on October 7th. Maybe you're so deluded or brainwashed that you think they'd spare you but they won't. I guess you'd walk up to the precipice having realised what you enabled but I'm not so sure.
I am an Arabphile. I have worked with many from different countries in the Middle East. I did a hair commercial for a Procter and Gamble shampoo and as is their way when it was successful no other Director would do. So however long I kept them waiting or charged it had to be me.......
I got to know them well and liked them a lot. Like a lot of ancient civilisations they have a very considered way of seeing things. They tell great stories and laugh a lot. The girls beg me to take them to Raymond's when we post produce in London and the girls laugh all the way through
I've found them warm and humble. in many ways they're sympatico like some Jews but as the Jews i knosw are mainly English and American it's difficult to make comparisons but I can sense the similarities. They have a lot of the Italian in them another nationality I like a lot. I'm not gay but the English hairdresser I take with me is and the females are like giggling schoolgirls when they are around him. More so when he wears skirts. They know their restrictions and talk to you endlessly about them. But they love life and having fun.
We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.
Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.
The success of Clarkson’s Farm concludes another very different argument
Around the time Clarkson got kicked off Top Gear we had a lot of debate about it. I remember dear @Roger saying, as cluelessly as ever, “these comedians are two a penny, the BBC is brilliant at renewing shows, he’s no loss, the show will come back better than ever”
Oops. Several of us told him at the time that Clarkson was irreplaceable but he wasn’t having it
Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
In very general terms people who don't get Clarksons appeal don't get British Society and people
A society full of people who think that Clarkson is anything other than a total arsehole is not a society that I want to be part of.
Society that's with anything needs to accommodate both sets of people.
Yes, both sets of people.
Set one who think that Clarkson is a total arsehole.
And set two who think that Clarkson is a c word.
Top Gear was the most popular TV show in the world, and astoundingly popular in the UK (for a niche car show). At its peak it regularly got 8m+ viewers. 8 million! The BBC would kill to get that many viewers today, for anything other than live sport
Here are the ratings for the last week in the UK. The top spot is Race Around the World. 5.5m viewers. Way down on peak Top Gear
Look who is in 2nd and 4th place and 6th place and 13th place. Jeremy Clarkson
They just ripped the format from Last of the Summer Wine, made the three guys a bit younger, and added cars.
Basically, yes. Except they also added comedy, sometimes genius comedy
A bit of revisionism, perhaps?
Clarkson (& Wilman) took the old Top Gear, and gradually phased out the serious car reviews and over the next few years added three blokes bantering and stunts which grew into the specials. It was the specials that really took off and came to dominate later TG and then the The Grand Tour.
So you're not really wrong except it was not planned as such from the start.
It's a mistake. Never explain, never apologise. They will never forgive you no matter what you say. Own it, even if it's wrong, and go on to the next thing.
Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
The inexorable rise of automotive YouTube killed TG (and his stupid Amazon shit) not Jexit.
Harry's Garage does reviews way better than TG ever did. Haggard Garage, etc. did the arsing about way better than TG ever did. Whatever your automotive niche fetish is, you can get a far more informed and in-depth version of it on YouTube. The remaining and dwindling audience for TG/GT was lightweight car enthusiasts who don't know what Instant Centre is and don't even own multiple piston ring compressors.
Disclaimer: never seen a full episode of TG or the stupid Amazon shit but I can still authoritatively disclaim upon them.
lol
Top Gear with Clarkson & Co was literally the biggest TV show in the world. Not biggest car show on TV, biggest TV show of any kind. Bought by dozens of countries, with multiple international spin offs, it generated tens of millions for the BBC every year
Why? Because it wasn’t a car show at all. It was a self satirising comedy about three middle aged men with hobbies and rivalries - and yet a friendship beneath it
That’s why all the spin offs tried to copy it to the last old geezer detail
It was the petrolhead equivalent of Last Of The Summer Wine. You had the pompous silverback, the sardonic Englishman, and the bouncy man child. Every week they got into scrapes, had an adventure, and went home.
We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.
Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.
Yes, quite
There’s a discussion above about “hating politicians”. I agree that hatred is a distressing emotion and generally negative for all, nevertheless if I had to describe my emotions about this government and its leader it would come uncomfortably close to “hatred”
They are damaging and impoverishing us as a country, a people, and a culture - and they do it quite overtly. They barely try to hide it. They clearly despise us - and me - so I despise them right back
Do you and Max prepare your Victor Meldrew/Alf Garnet posts before coming on here or do you just feed off each other? You've always been what you are but I'm sure there was a time when Max was civilised and with an impressive understanding of economics
However much you suck up to the Hamas supporting flag wavers, you're still Jewish and gay, Roger. They will push you off the building to your death the same as those they killed without mercy on October 7th. Maybe you're so deluded or brainwashed that you think they'd spare you but they won't. I guess you'd walk up to the precipice having realised what you enabled but I'm not so sure.
There's far too much abuse on PB directed towards other posters recently, so I am going to nip this in the bud from now on.
No swearing at other PBers, including asterisked out words and no such comments as telling others to have a wank.
The spam trap will be updated shortly, so if you get banned automatically you have been warned.
PB is a place for robust discussions but not being abusive towards each other.
Er...
I'm not being abusive, it's just the truth of what it is. I haven't called Roger any names or insulted him in any way as far as I can see. I'll happily delete it if TSE asks though.
Is Roger gay?!
Well I never. Every day a madrassa day
AIUI and IIRC he has at least one child, a daughter - not that this would stop him being gay, of course
My barber is as gay as Easter but has sired two children by donating his nocturnal emissions to a lesbian couple.
It's a mistake. Never explain, never apologise. They will never forgive you no matter what you say. Own it, even if it's wrong, and go on to the next thing.
We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.
Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.
Yes, quite
There’s a discussion above about “hating politicians”. I agree that hatred is a distressing emotion and generally negative for all, nevertheless if I had to describe my emotions about this government and its leader it would come uncomfortably close to “hatred”
They are damaging and impoverishing us as a country, a people, and a culture - and they do it quite overtly. They barely try to hide it. They clearly despise us - and me - so I despise them right back
Do you and Max prepare your Victor Meldrew/Alf Garnet posts before coming on here or do you just feed off each other? You've always been what you are but I'm sure there was a time when Max was civilised and with an impressive understanding of economics
However much you suck up to the Hamas supporting flag wavers, you're still Jewish and gay, Roger. They will push you off the building to your death the same as those they killed without mercy on October 7th. Maybe you're so deluded or brainwashed that you think they'd spare you but they won't. I guess you'd walk up to the precipice having realised what you enabled but I'm not so sure.
There's far too much abuse on PB directed towards other posters recently, so I am going to nip this in the bud from now on.
No swearing at other PBers, including asterisked out words and no such comments as telling others to have a wank.
The spam trap will be updated shortly, so if you get banned automatically you have been warned.
PB is a place for robust discussions but not being abusive towards each other.
Er...
I'm not being abusive, it's just the truth of what it is. I haven't called Roger any names or insulted him in any way as far as I can see. I'll happily delete it if TSE asks though.
Is Roger gay?!
Well I never. Every day a madrassa day
AIUI and IIRC he has at least one child, a daughter - not that this would stop him being gay, of course
One of my odd facts is that Paul O'Grady fathered a child via penile penetration. People are complex.
We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.
Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.
Yes, quite
There’s a discussion above about “hating politicians”. I agree that hatred is a distressing emotion and generally negative for all, nevertheless if I had to describe my emotions about this government and its leader it would come uncomfortably close to “hatred”
They are damaging and impoverishing us as a country, a people, and a culture - and they do it quite overtly. They barely try to hide it. They clearly despise us - and me - so I despise them right back
Do you and Max prepare your Victor Meldrew/Alf Garnet posts before coming on here or do you just feed off each other? You've always been what you are but I'm sure there was a time when Max was civilised and with an impressive understanding of economics
However much you suck up to the Hamas supporting flag wavers, you're still Jewish and gay, Roger. They will push you off the building to your death the same as those they killed without mercy on October 7th. Maybe you're so deluded or brainwashed that you think they'd spare you but they won't. I guess you'd walk up to the precipice having realised what you enabled but I'm not so sure.
There's far too much abuse on PB directed towards other posters recently, so I am going to nip this in the bud from now on.
No swearing at other PBers, including asterisked out words and no such comments as telling others to have a wank.
The spam trap will be updated shortly, so if you get banned automatically you have been warned.
PB is a place for robust discussions but not being abusive towards each other.
Er...
I'm not being abusive, it's just the truth of what it is. I haven't called Roger any names or insulted him in any way as far as I can see. I'll happily delete it if TSE asks though.
Is Roger gay?!
Well I never. Every day a madrassa day
AIUI and IIRC he has at least one child, a daughter - not that this would stop him being gay, of course
My barber is as gay as Easter but has sired two children by donating his nocturnal emissions to a lesbian couple.
So it happens.
Apart from the "act" itself that's sort of straight then?
It won't make any difference, because people in Red states won't believe it. Just as people in Red states believe that Democratic states have more crime than Republican ones, when the opposite is true.
Beliefs about reality follow prejudices, they do not change them.
It won't make any difference, because America is polarising on racial lines. As I said last night. And it is critical to understand this - this is, in fact, the crucial insight into all western politics today. Once you understand it, everything makes sense
I am aware this upsets some of the forum, but it is the case. White people are beginning to vote on the basis of their own identity; it has long been happening in America but is now intensifying there, and this is in turn spreading to Europe. Because it is the inevitable endpoint of mass immigration and multiculturalism. You cannot celebrate difference and diversity and minorities and obsess about skin colour, without, in the end, White people saying "Hey I have an identity, too, I have a colour, when do I get celebrated"?
It's not a happy evolution. If it continues there will be much trouble. The Danish Social Democrats show a way forward that is not violent, just firm
"The country where the left (not the far right) made hardline immigration laws"
"BBC Journalist asks Danish Politician how Denmark is able to maintain trust in its Democracy - “Give voters what they want. If they want lower immigration lower it”"
There's a number of Catholic schools now that have far more practicing Muslim pupils than practicing Catholic ones.
Sounds like integration to me. What more do people want?
Without wishing to doxx myself further on here than I have in the past, I can speak from experience on this.
I can't quite see the problem. If the school preaches Catholic (or other Christian) values explicitly, including weekly services with hymns, Christmas and Easter services, it suggests to me an impressive level of whatever the opposite of fundamentalism is amongst the students and families of a Muslim faith who quietly tolerate all the Christian stuff in order to get a good education.
I never said it was a problem, I just thought it was interesting.
Fair enough, and apologies.
I think it probablly says something interesting about the positive impact of mild religious values on the quality of education - a bit of a counter to the self-centredness and desire for instant gratification that hinders most teenagers from maximising their time at school.
I'm not sure I'd send my kids to a Catholic school specifically (too much inculcation of guilt and shame) but a religious school more generally? I'd be keen I think.
My daughter's in Year 6 so I did quite a bit of research on local schools when deciding where to apply to send her to.
Interestingly, as an atheist family, we'd be legally discriminated against in their priorities for the schools had we wanted to apply to send her there.
Catholic schools as an example can (and do) prioritise those practicing Catholicism first, but then can (and do) prioritise those practicing another religion ahead of those who are not practicing any.
So a practicing Muslim takes priority in a Catholic school over an agnostic or atheist.
So what? If all practising Roman Catholic pupils who want places have been admitted then Catholic schools may have a few places for practising C of E, Baptist, Methodist and Pentecostal pupils and other Christian pupils and if a few left after that for practising Muslims, fellow believers at least in the God of Abraham.
They have no need to find places for confirmed atheists like you who have plenty of secular, non faith schools your children can go to
I always find it a bit odd that catholics are barred from being monarch but I suppose it would be odd for a catholic to be head of the CofE.
As an aside, a statue of the reigning monarch is placed on the front facade of Canterbury Cathedral as befits their role as the head of the church. However when I checked the other week, Charles had not been added yet nearly 3 years later. Wonder if he has to earn his place.
We finished Clarkson's Farm this morning, definitely a step down from the first three seasons but absolutely brilliant anyway. Once again, you really get a sense of how up against it British farmers are (and I'm sure the story isn't particularly different across all of Europe). The government's betrayal of our family run farms will hopefully put Labour out of power for a generation and I hope both the Tories and Reform commit to reversing the tractor tax in their manifestos.
Every time I think I might give Labour a chance I remember that they hate traditional British culture and the people. I can't see any way they will ever get my vote at this stage. This betrayal will ruin family run businesses for a generation all so we could give Mauritius £40bn and some territory. Absolute joke of a country.
The success of Clarkson’s Farm concludes another very different argument
Around the time Clarkson got kicked off Top Gear we had a lot of debate about it. I remember dear @Roger saying, as cluelessly as ever, “these comedians are two a penny, the BBC is brilliant at renewing shows, he’s no loss, the show will come back better than ever”
Oops. Several of us told him at the time that Clarkson was irreplaceable but he wasn’t having it
Now Clarkson has made another enormously successful and funny show about something entirely different - proving all along that he was The Talent - and Top Gear has quietly and sadly died
In very general terms people who don't get Clarksons appeal don't get British Society and people
A society full of people who think that Clarkson is anything other than a total arsehole is not a society that I want to be part of.
Society that's with anything needs to accommodate both sets of people.
Yes, both sets of people.
Set one who think that Clarkson is a total arsehole.
And set two who think that Clarkson is a c word.
Top Gear was the most popular TV show in the world, and astoundingly popular in the UK (for a niche car show). At its peak it regularly got 8m+ viewers. 8 million! The BBC would kill to get that many viewers today, for anything other than live sport
Here are the ratings for the last week in the UK. The top spot is Race Around the World. 5.5m viewers. Way down on peak Top Gear
Look who is in 2nd and 4th place and 6th place and 13th place. Jeremy Clarkson
Despite Brexit, the UK is still following EU law on new car models, all of which have to deliver extremely annoying visual and audio warnings whenever the car thinks you are driving faster than the speed limit.
Comments
It’s amazing how you maintain this incredible level of ignorance over thousands of comments, and many many years. I, for one, salute your indefatigable idiocy
I think it probablly says something interesting about the positive impact of mild religious values on the quality of education - a bit of a counter to the self-centredness and desire for instant gratification that hinders most teenagers from maximising their time at school.
I'm not sure I'd send my kids to a Catholic school specifically (too much inculcation of guilt and shame) but a religious school more generally? I'd be keen I think.
Curtice I think is just betraying his own political stance - as he does semi-frequently.
Can he point to any other successful political disavowals in the past? Is disavowal generally a good strategy in any public enterprise?
If I think of previous Tory admissions of guilt - take Theresa May's 'Nasty Party' - was that the start of a process that successfully rid the party of its 'Nasty' status and is now thought of as the 'Nice Party'? Or did it merely present the enemies of the party with a convenient tagline wrapped in a bow?
Im not sure he'll go for Reform but certain figures within it. He's been getting trashed left right and centre by some Reformers (and thanked by others), i can't see him shrugging off the attacks.
If not now a lot of shit will come out during Rupert Lowes action against them.
Colossus wasn’t destroyed - a couple of older units were dismantled. One of the newer versions survived at least into the 60s at GCHQ.
Colossus wasn’t a general purpose computer - yes you could, kinda, do Turing complete on it. But very slowly and awkwardly.
The real reason the Americans pulled ahead was that they took their existing work (very considerable) and both private (IBM) and the government threw money into the area. Importantly, this wasn’t just blue sky research - enormous investments in productisation and reliability.
Interestingly, as an atheist family, we'd be legally discriminated against in their priorities for the schools had we wanted to apply to send her there.
Catholic schools as an example can (and do) prioritise those practicing Catholicism first, but then can (and do) prioritise those practicing another religion ahead of those who are not practicing any.
So a practicing Muslim takes priority in a Catholic school over an agnostic or atheist.
It's a shame.
However, growing pains. Reform are the equivalent of a 6ft 3-year old just now. It can't all be smooth sailing.
But given the discussion was nothing to do with Hamas, but rather about the relative woefulness of our current government, it felt unnecessarily hostile.
The Tories have been since at least 1990 and Labour since the 70s, after all
https://x.com/Dawn_French/status/1931328783425958294
Well I never. Every day a madrassa day
AIUI and IIRC he has at least one child, a daughter - not that this would stop him being gay, of course
What exactly do Reform want to be? Old Labour protectionists? Cost-cutting small government freewheelers? Big spenders? Tories in all but name?
The fact that they are new entrants in a deeply discredited party system and they major on immigration and culture topics gets them a fair step along the road to success, but before long if they desire power they are going to have to start thinking about their overall message. Farage’s tendencies are towards small-state, low tax neo-Thatcherism, I think. I’m not convinced his more high-spending tack of late is anything other than intended to shoot Labour foxes and solidify his appeal with the red wall. But you can’t run a party forever on contradictions. The Tories found that post 2019.
If they do that I suspect the voters will forgive them anything - for one term. After that they will need other ideas
Pre-2024 Starmer's Labour didn't have a coherent ideology either, hence the Ming Vase strategy. They can't do that in office, but post-2024 they were in Downing Street.
If Farage can copy Starmer's Ming Vase strategy and only resolve the contradictions once he's Prime Minister, I'm sure he can live with that.
The bigger problem for the party is the sheer number of voters that Farage is utterly repellent to.
So if a farming family keeps the land for 500 years, no tax.
A tax shelter where you pay tax on exit… is no longer a tax shelter.
The current arrangements will increase the push to land owning by companies. Which will end up with a few mega landowning corporations. Probably, the CEOs of these will buy their way into the House of Lords.
Spencer Hakimian
@SpencerHakimian
If I was a Democrat, I’d relentlessly repeat this message.
Blue states fund the red states.
Not the other way around.
https://x.com/SpencerHakimian/status/1931339108783161608
Beliefs about reality follow prejudices. People are remarkably fact resistant.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/junes-strawberry-moon-rise-unusual-31788539
Perfect evening for moonmaidens.
I am aware this upsets some of the forum, but it is the case. White people are beginning to vote on the basis of their own identity; it has long been happening in America but is now intensifying there, and this is in turn spreading to Europe. Because it is the inevitable endpoint of mass immigration and multiculturalism. You cannot celebrate difference and diversity and minorities and obsess about skin colour, without, in the end, White people saying "Hey I have an identity, too, I have a colour, when do I get celebrated"?
It's not a happy evolution. If it continues there will be much trouble. The Danish Social Democrats show a way forward that is not violent, just firm
"The country where the left (not the far right) made hardline immigration laws"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1mgkd93r4yo
"BBC Journalist asks Danish Politician how Denmark is able to maintain trust in its Democracy - “Give voters what they want. If they want lower immigration lower it”"
https://x.com/kunley_drukpa/status/1930279793552941532
Set one who think that Clarkson is a total arsehole.
And set two who think that Clarkson is a c word.
Here are the ratings for the last week in the UK. The top spot is Race Around the World. 5.5m viewers. Way down on peak Top Gear
Look who is in 2nd and 4th place and 6th place and 13th place. Jeremy Clarkson
https://www.barb.co.uk/viewing-data/most-viewed-programmes/
It's not like this is some massive puzzle which no one can solve. How do we stop the rise of the far right! We are helpless!
No, you're not helpless. Denmark is showing exactly what you do - and it works. The Daniosh government saw a problem, they heard the voters, they got it fixed. At the last election the Danish Far Right basically vanished. People do not WANT to vote Far Right, they do it out of despair
But it's permitted.
Just treat it with the very little respect it deserves.
Along with respect for that fine set of musicians, Radiohead.
Ok, Remainy, not Leavey, but still fairly centre-right.
Also seems to command some loyalty, unlike Boris (excepting his die-hards).
They have no need to find places for confirmed atheists like you who have plenty of secular, non faith schools your children can go to
Some things are beyond doubt. Reform (if still in the running in 2029) will in fact be a high tax, high spend, welfarist, social democratic party like all other serious aspirants to government. It has no choice. Ask the voters of Clacton to list the free stuff and other stuff they want from government. Try taking it away from them. Little change out of £1.5 trillion.
It will aim, like all the othes to run it better, more competently and cheaper, and it will want nearly closed inward borders. The nearest thing to Old Labour available. Like current Labour it will think of a couple of gimmicks. Abolishing pensions and selling the NHS won't be amonmg them. Rainbow lanyards though may get an Act of Parliament all to themselves.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3QCO0uNNpJk
1 Lambourn 13/2
2 Lazy Griff 50/1
3 Tennessee Stud 28/1
4 New Ground 50/1
5 Stanhope Gardens 12/1
Gino D’Acampo playing the prat character.
Bombed.
James May is Clegg: musing, grammar-school type.
Richard Hammond is Foggy: militaristic.
Jeremy Clarkson is Compo: emotionally impulsive funny-man in wellies.
I got to know them well and liked them a lot. Like a lot of ancient civilisations they have a very considered way of seeing things. They tell great stories and laugh a lot. The girls beg me to take them to Raymond's when we post produce in London and the girls laugh all the way through
I've found them warm and humble. in many ways they're sympatico like some Jews but as the Jews i knosw are mainly English and American it's difficult to make comparisons but I can sense the similarities. They have a lot of the Italian in them another nationality I like a lot. I'm not gay but the English hairdresser I take with me is and the females are like giggling schoolgirls when they are around him. More so when he wears skirts. They know their restrictions and talk to you endlessly about them. But they love life and having fun.
Clarkson (& Wilman) took the old Top Gear, and gradually phased out the serious car reviews and over the next few years added three blokes bantering and stunts which grew into the specials. It was the specials that really took off and came to dominate later TG and then the The Grand Tour.
So you're not really wrong except it was not planned as such from the start.
So it happens.
https://www.yr.no/nb/værvarsel/daglig-tabell/2-2649668/Storbritannia/England/Farndale
Yay!
https://www.forbes.com/quotes/2870/?utm_campaign=Forbes&utm_source=TWITTER&utm_medium=social&linkId=17766435
If you aren't familiar with him, you should know that he is often considered America's greatest mayor:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiorello_La_Guardia
And that attitude on mistakes was probably one of the big reasons why.
(He was a Republican (naturally), a socialist, and a supporter of FDR.)
As an aside, a statue of the reigning monarch is placed on the front facade of Canterbury Cathedral as befits their role as the head of the church. However when I checked the other week, Charles had not been added yet nearly 3 years later. Wonder if he has to earn his place.
Somebody must be making money out of it.
A good formula works for a reason, why change something that works?
Sandy is being silly, it was like a calendar to them. “On the next moon we plant the seed.” “On the next moon the wolfs cross the frozen river.”