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More people think Starmer’s deal is a good deal than a bad deal – politicalbetting.com

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  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,518
    fitalass said:

    Taz said:

    U.K. 10 year up again.

    Rachel Truss strikes again.

    https://x.com/notayesmansecon/status/1925110327747747912?s=61

    What's the movement relative to US, German, Japanese equivalents ?
    I'll answer my own question. All up 0.04% today except Japan.
    The only relevant issue over rising bond rates is Reeves is boxed in even further, and whataboutery is not going to give her a free pass
    It looks like CPI inflation will be around 4% or maybe more in September, much more than expected a little while ago, and this will put additional strain on public finances as the uplift to benefits (and to an extent the state pension) is based on September CPI
    The pay demands by the unions will be the next issue for Reeves

    I am not sure she will survive to the Autumn budget
    I agree. The WFA U turn is too little, too late. The political damage it has inflicted on Starmer's Labour government is already irreversable and its is now looking very likely to be spun as an excuse by the Chancellor for further tax increases in the Autumn budget.
    Personally I think the cut in wfa was a good idea clumsily handled, it left a lot of people who had made a little provision ( a few thousand private pension) a lot worse off than people who had made no provision (some of whom never had the money too). If it was me proposing it I would have asked hmrc do do the following searches on their db's

    age > 65 and tax being paid = 0 full wfa
    age > 65 and tax being paid < 2000 then 200 wfa
    age > 65 and tax being paid > 2000 && tax being paid < 5000 then 100 wfa

    HMRC knows how much tax everyone pays and they know dates of birth....absolutely 0 excuse saying it would be too hard
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,247
    Pagan2 said:

    fitalass said:

    Taz said:

    U.K. 10 year up again.

    Rachel Truss strikes again.

    https://x.com/notayesmansecon/status/1925110327747747912?s=61

    What's the movement relative to US, German, Japanese equivalents ?
    I'll answer my own question. All up 0.04% today except Japan.
    The only relevant issue over rising bond rates is Reeves is boxed in even further, and whataboutery is not going to give her a free pass
    It looks like CPI inflation will be around 4% or maybe more in September, much more than expected a little while ago, and this will put additional strain on public finances as the uplift to benefits (and to an extent the state pension) is based on September CPI
    The pay demands by the unions will be the next issue for Reeves

    I am not sure she will survive to the Autumn budget
    I agree. The WFA U turn is too little, too late. The political damage it has inflicted on Starmer's Labour government is already irreversable and its is now looking very likely to be spun as an excuse by the Chancellor for further tax increases in the Autumn budget.
    Personally I think the cut in wfa was a good idea clumsily handled, it left a lot of people who had made a little provision ( a few thousand private pension) a lot worse off than people who had made no provision (some of whom never had the money too). If it was me proposing it I would have asked hmrc do do the following searches on their db's

    age > 65 and tax being paid = 0 full wfa
    age > 65 and tax being paid < 2000 then 200 wfa
    age > 65 and tax being paid > 2000 && tax being paid < 5000 then 100 wfa

    HMRC knows how much tax everyone pays and they know dates of birth....absolutely 0 excuse saying it would be too hard
    They will do something like this in October except OAPs will have to proactively make the claim because the govt will hope some will be too lazy or too busy shivering to do it and save a few quid
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,354
    MikeL said:

    How is the Winter Fuel u-turn going to work?

    Media saying raise threshold to £15k or £17.5k etc.

    But DWP does not know the income of every pensioner.

    They surely aren't going to create the admin chaos that there is with Child Benefit with people getting it and having to declare it on their tax return so they can repay it.

    I wonder if the plan is actually to restore Winter Fuel to everybody.

    But Starmer will use it as a bargaining chip with backbenchers - ie "we will restore Winter Fuel but in return we will have to make other welfare cuts to offset cost".

    Out of interest, has removing the WFA already proved to be less of a money saver than was hoped, has there an increase in those claiming pensioners credits since it was removed last year?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,518

    Pagan2 said:

    fitalass said:

    Taz said:

    U.K. 10 year up again.

    Rachel Truss strikes again.

    https://x.com/notayesmansecon/status/1925110327747747912?s=61

    What's the movement relative to US, German, Japanese equivalents ?
    I'll answer my own question. All up 0.04% today except Japan.
    The only relevant issue over rising bond rates is Reeves is boxed in even further, and whataboutery is not going to give her a free pass
    It looks like CPI inflation will be around 4% or maybe more in September, much more than expected a little while ago, and this will put additional strain on public finances as the uplift to benefits (and to an extent the state pension) is based on September CPI
    The pay demands by the unions will be the next issue for Reeves

    I am not sure she will survive to the Autumn budget
    I agree. The WFA U turn is too little, too late. The political damage it has inflicted on Starmer's Labour government is already irreversable and its is now looking very likely to be spun as an excuse by the Chancellor for further tax increases in the Autumn budget.
    Personally I think the cut in wfa was a good idea clumsily handled, it left a lot of people who had made a little provision ( a few thousand private pension) a lot worse off than people who had made no provision (some of whom never had the money too). If it was me proposing it I would have asked hmrc do do the following searches on their db's

    age > 65 and tax being paid = 0 full wfa
    age > 65 and tax being paid < 2000 then 200 wfa
    age > 65 and tax being paid > 2000 && tax being paid < 5000 then 100 wfa

    HMRC knows how much tax everyone pays and they know dates of birth....absolutely 0 excuse saying it would be too hard
    They will do something like this in October except OAPs will have to proactively make the claim because the govt will hope some will be too lazy or too busy shivering to do it and save a few quid
    They will likely also make it difficult to claim like they do with pension credit asking a 100 irrelevant questions
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,247
    https://x.com/benrileysmith/status/1925244444388794378?s=19

    The Red Queen's Maneuveres part 2, tragically leaked to the Telegraph by someone who's identity is a total mystery
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,166
    Leon said:

    Donald J Trump is an effing great twat, but is PB really defending the odious South African regime?

    A bunch of corrupt, racist crooks

    So actually quite a good match for Trump, and certainly no better

    There seems an unwillingness to contemplate that the heirs to Nelson Mandela are actually no better than Robert Mugabe.

    This is what happens when you divide the world into goodies and baddies. Didn't Peter Hain once write a book in which Robert Mugabe was the hero?


  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,342

    Pagan2 said:

    fitalass said:

    Taz said:

    U.K. 10 year up again.

    Rachel Truss strikes again.

    https://x.com/notayesmansecon/status/1925110327747747912?s=61

    What's the movement relative to US, German, Japanese equivalents ?
    I'll answer my own question. All up 0.04% today except Japan.
    The only relevant issue over rising bond rates is Reeves is boxed in even further, and whataboutery is not going to give her a free pass
    It looks like CPI inflation will be around 4% or maybe more in September, much more than expected a little while ago, and this will put additional strain on public finances as the uplift to benefits (and to an extent the state pension) is based on September CPI
    The pay demands by the unions will be the next issue for Reeves

    I am not sure she will survive to the Autumn budget
    I agree. The WFA U turn is too little, too late. The political damage it has inflicted on Starmer's Labour government is already irreversable and its is now looking very likely to be spun as an excuse by the Chancellor for further tax increases in the Autumn budget.
    Personally I think the cut in wfa was a good idea clumsily handled, it left a lot of people who had made a little provision ( a few thousand private pension) a lot worse off than people who had made no provision (some of whom never had the money too). If it was me proposing it I would have asked hmrc do do the following searches on their db's

    age > 65 and tax being paid = 0 full wfa
    age > 65 and tax being paid < 2000 then 200 wfa
    age > 65 and tax being paid > 2000 && tax being paid < 5000 then 100 wfa

    HMRC knows how much tax everyone pays and they know dates of birth....absolutely 0 excuse saying it would be too hard
    They will do something like this in October except OAPs will have to proactively make the claim because the govt will hope some will be too lazy or too busy shivering to do it and save a few quid
    I would just make the point that could be missed

    The payment is per household so as my wife and I are over 80 I pay tax she doesn't so I would be taxed on £150 of it and zero for my wife
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,247
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    fitalass said:

    Taz said:

    U.K. 10 year up again.

    Rachel Truss strikes again.

    https://x.com/notayesmansecon/status/1925110327747747912?s=61

    What's the movement relative to US, German, Japanese equivalents ?
    I'll answer my own question. All up 0.04% today except Japan.
    The only relevant issue over rising bond rates is Reeves is boxed in even further, and whataboutery is not going to give her a free pass
    It looks like CPI inflation will be around 4% or maybe more in September, much more than expected a little while ago, and this will put additional strain on public finances as the uplift to benefits (and to an extent the state pension) is based on September CPI
    The pay demands by the unions will be the next issue for Reeves

    I am not sure she will survive to the Autumn budget
    I agree. The WFA U turn is too little, too late. The political damage it has inflicted on Starmer's Labour government is already irreversable and its is now looking very likely to be spun as an excuse by the Chancellor for further tax increases in the Autumn budget.
    Personally I think the cut in wfa was a good idea clumsily handled, it left a lot of people who had made a little provision ( a few thousand private pension) a lot worse off than people who had made no provision (some of whom never had the money too). If it was me proposing it I would have asked hmrc do do the following searches on their db's

    age > 65 and tax being paid = 0 full wfa
    age > 65 and tax being paid < 2000 then 200 wfa
    age > 65 and tax being paid > 2000 && tax being paid < 5000 then 100 wfa

    HMRC knows how much tax everyone pays and they know dates of birth....absolutely 0 excuse saying it would be too hard
    They will do something like this in October except OAPs will have to proactively make the claim because the govt will hope some will be too lazy or too busy shivering to do it and save a few quid
    They will likely also make it difficult to claim like they do with pension credit asking a 100 irrelevant questions
    And trial run their bank account snooping charter on claimants, make sure they aren't spending it on Freddo's or Radox
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,518
    I did actually claim jsa for a couple of months was amusing because went down to sign on and I told them my name , my address, my date of birth then refused to answer anything else other than to say there is my reduncancy letter confirming 5 years of employment thats all you need to give me jsa......frustrated the fuck out of them but guess what I still got awarded jsa
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,198
    Remember the flash harry lawyer that turned up all over our screens representing the two lads who had a dust up with the police at Manchester Airport....

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/21/pro-gaza-mayoral-candidate-charged-money-laundering-yakoob/
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,031
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Donald J Trump is an effing great twat, but is PB really defending the odious South African regime?

    A bunch of corrupt, racist crooks

    So actually quite a good match for Trump, and certainly no better

    There seems an unwillingness to contemplate that the heirs to Nelson Mandela are actually no better than Robert Mugabe.

    This is what happens when you divide the world into goodies and baddies. Didn't Peter Hain once write a book in which Robert Mugabe was the hero?


    Around the time that Norman Tebbit was calling for Mandela to be hanged, as I recall.
    These things tend to cut both ways.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,342
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Mad King is having an even madder than usual one in the Oval Office right now

    Just shown the South African President a video about genocide of white farmers, Ramphosa probably the only world leader treating farmers worse than Starmer now. The South African Agriculture Minister though says most white farmers still want to stay rather than leave (CNN has a piece on Orania, a separatist “Afrikaner-only” settlement in the country’s Northern Cape) and the government is tackling livestock theft.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cpqe7rp388vt
    https://edition.cnn.com/2025/05/21/africa/trump-resettling-south-africas-afrikaners-intl
    'Ramphosa probably the only world leader treating farmers worse than Starmer now'

    Do you ever stop and think what you write

    To even suggest that is utter hyperbole and just wrong
    No, Ramphosa is confiscating some family farms much like Starmer effectively is with the family farms tax
    You should be ashamed of yourself

    It is not remotely comparable

    You embarrass this conservative with utterance such as this
    No, you sucking up to Starmer over our farmers whose livelihood he is wrecking, some of whom are even considering suicide to pass on their farm to their son before full APF is ended next year, is what is shameful
    I am not endorsing Starmer but just showing how utterly out of touch you are with common sense
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,883
    Pagan2 said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    Morein Common new poll gives Kemi some relief, Tories well ahead of LDs and just 1% behind Labour

    ➡️ REF UK 30% (+2)
    🌹 LAB 22% (-3)
    🌳 CON 21% (+1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 14% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 8% (nc)
    🟡 SNP 2% (nc)
    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/1925084392684192109

    .
    https://xcancel.com/LeftieStats/status/1925146895455805671#m
    .
    Hmm relief is only having the 4th biggest number of seats not much beyond a party that only campaigns in a small portion of the state...ok its a view
    Interesting graphic that shows the problem the LibDems have getting elected in the Midlands/North of England.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,247
    edited May 21

    Pagan2 said:

    fitalass said:

    Taz said:

    U.K. 10 year up again.

    Rachel Truss strikes again.

    https://x.com/notayesmansecon/status/1925110327747747912?s=61

    What's the movement relative to US, German, Japanese equivalents ?
    I'll answer my own question. All up 0.04% today except Japan.
    The only relevant issue over rising bond rates is Reeves is boxed in even further, and whataboutery is not going to give her a free pass
    It looks like CPI inflation will be around 4% or maybe more in September, much more than expected a little while ago, and this will put additional strain on public finances as the uplift to benefits (and to an extent the state pension) is based on September CPI
    The pay demands by the unions will be the next issue for Reeves

    I am not sure she will survive to the Autumn budget
    I agree. The WFA U turn is too little, too late. The political damage it has inflicted on Starmer's Labour government is already irreversable and its is now looking very likely to be spun as an excuse by the Chancellor for further tax increases in the Autumn budget.
    Personally I think the cut in wfa was a good idea clumsily handled, it left a lot of people who had made a little provision ( a few thousand private pension) a lot worse off than people who had made no provision (some of whom never had the money too). If it was me proposing it I would have asked hmrc do do the following searches on their db's

    age > 65 and tax being paid = 0 full wfa
    age > 65 and tax being paid < 2000 then 200 wfa
    age > 65 and tax being paid > 2000 && tax being paid < 5000 then 100 wfa

    HMRC knows how much tax everyone pays and they know dates of birth....absolutely 0 excuse saying it would be too hard
    They will do something like this in October except OAPs will have to proactively make the claim because the govt will hope some will be too lazy or too busy shivering to do it and save a few quid
    I would just make the point that could be missed

    The payment is per household so as my wife and I are over 80 I pay tax she doesn't so I would be taxed on £150 of it and zero for my wife
    Oh they won't have missed that. Starmer or Reeves giving a crap is another matter
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,198
    The 34-year-old was arrested at his home after 60kg of the drug was found in bags arriving at London Stansted Airport on September 2 last year.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2025/05/21/jay-emmanuel-thomas-ex-arsenal-striker-cannabis-smuggling/

    Think of the excess baggage fees they must have paid!
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,219

    FPT - we can criticise wanker judges, and some are - and activist ones at that - but all the stuff they adjudicate on with ludicrous results, like the Human Rights Act, ECHR, Equality Act and Net Zero law, were voted into law by performing politicians who either didn't know about the impact, or did and liked it.

    Partially.

    It's mostly that, but its partially just evolution of case history. Which to be fair is largely how we got Common Law originally.

    Cases that would have been dismissed out of court, or never even made it there, under the ECHR originally are now taken credibly.

    I wouldn't say its activist judges though. It's just people pushing boundaries, then looking at case history.

    A boundary case is won, then that both sets precedent but it also sets a new boundary. Then that boundary is pushed against until a case is won and that repeats with many individual cases eroding the original meaning of the law Parliamentarians originally intended until it is warped into something completely different.

    It's like coastal erosion, but for the law.
    Well, sure, but Parliament is sovereign. The law can be amended.

    Politicians should never complain about judges. They should simply amend the law if they want a different outcome to such cases.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,518

    Pagan2 said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    Morein Common new poll gives Kemi some relief, Tories well ahead of LDs and just 1% behind Labour

    ➡️ REF UK 30% (+2)
    🌹 LAB 22% (-3)
    🌳 CON 21% (+1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 14% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 8% (nc)
    🟡 SNP 2% (nc)
    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/1925084392684192109

    .
    https://xcancel.com/LeftieStats/status/1925146895455805671#m
    .
    Hmm relief is only having the 4th biggest number of seats not much beyond a party that only campaigns in a small portion of the state...ok its a view
    Interesting graphic that shows the problem the LibDems have getting elected in the Midlands/North of England.
    Well just shows they have more sense than us down in the south west for example some daft idiots voted for seb coe
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,247

    Remember the flash harry lawyer that turned up all over our screens representing the two lads who had a dust up with the police at Manchester Airport....

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/21/pro-gaza-mayoral-candidate-charged-money-laundering-yakoob/

    West Midlands mayor candidate that got 16% and was close to getting elected in July last year
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,157

    Would Starmer stand shoulder-to-shoulder with the US if it came to a humanitarian mission to overthrow the Israeli government?

    :innocent:
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,118
    Those Treasury 30-year rates are horrific.

    No wonder the public finances are so dire.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,355
    Oh Spurs, please be Spursy tonight.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,007
    DavidL said:

    Oh Spurs, please be Spursy tonight.

    Be funny if they won something now Kane has left to try and win something.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,601

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Mad King is having an even madder than usual one in the Oval Office right now

    Just shown the South African President a video about genocide of white farmers, Ramphosa probably the only world leader treating farmers worse than Starmer now. The South African Agriculture Minister though says most white farmers still want to stay rather than leave (CNN has a piece on Orania, a separatist “Afrikaner-only” settlement in the country’s Northern Cape) and the government is tackling livestock theft.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cpqe7rp388vt
    https://edition.cnn.com/2025/05/21/africa/trump-resettling-south-africas-afrikaners-intl
    'Ramphosa probably the only world leader treating farmers worse than Starmer now'

    Do you ever stop and think what you write

    To even suggest that is utter hyperbole and just wrong
    No, Ramphosa is confiscating some family farms much like Starmer effectively is with the family farms tax
    You should be ashamed of yourself

    It is not remotely comparable

    You embarrass this conservative with utterance such as this
    No, you sucking up to Starmer over our farmers whose livelihood he is wrecking, some of whom are even considering suicide to pass on their farm to their son before full APF is ended next year, is what is shameful
    I am not endorsing Starmer but just showing how utterly out of touch you are with common sense
    Starmer is delivering a fairly good government. It's not economically unsound either. Easily the best Tory government since Major. (I really do make this as a serious point)

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,247
    Terrorism charges against a Kneecap guy.
    It's a crazy news day.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,414

    Those Treasury 30-year rates are horrific.

    No wonder the public finances are so dire.

    The ones being reported all over social media today are US ones.

    But UK yields are even higher. Should have joined the Euro (French 30 year yield 4.1%).
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,048

    Remember the flash harry lawyer that turned up all over our screens representing the two lads who had a dust up with the police at Manchester Airport....

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/21/pro-gaza-mayoral-candidate-charged-money-laundering-yakoob/

    He'll be found not guilty, lawyers are the epitome of probity.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,247

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Donald J Trump is an effing great twat, but is PB really defending the odious South African regime?

    A bunch of corrupt, racist crooks

    So actually quite a good match for Trump, and certainly no better

    There seems an unwillingness to contemplate that the heirs to Nelson Mandela are actually no better than Robert Mugabe.

    This is what happens when you divide the world into goodies and baddies. Didn't Peter Hain once write a book in which Robert Mugabe was the hero?


    His politics aren't my politics but you've got to admire Peter Tatchell.

    His principles are 100% consistent, and he's fucking brave - huge amount of respect for him trying to arrest Mugabe.
    I used to work with someone who was in the Rhodesian security services under Smith. He was a rum fella
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,601

    Those Treasury 30-year rates are horrific.

    No wonder the public finances are so dire.

    What do you know of 30y rates?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,518
    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Mad King is having an even madder than usual one in the Oval Office right now

    Just shown the South African President a video about genocide of white farmers, Ramphosa probably the only world leader treating farmers worse than Starmer now. The South African Agriculture Minister though says most white farmers still want to stay rather than leave (CNN has a piece on Orania, a separatist “Afrikaner-only” settlement in the country’s Northern Cape) and the government is tackling livestock theft.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cpqe7rp388vt
    https://edition.cnn.com/2025/05/21/africa/trump-resettling-south-africas-afrikaners-intl
    'Ramphosa probably the only world leader treating farmers worse than Starmer now'

    Do you ever stop and think what you write

    To even suggest that is utter hyperbole and just wrong
    No, Ramphosa is confiscating some family farms much like Starmer effectively is with the family farms tax
    You should be ashamed of yourself

    It is not remotely comparable

    You embarrass this conservative with utterance such as this
    No, you sucking up to Starmer over our farmers whose livelihood he is wrecking, some of whom are even considering suicide to pass on their farm to their son before full APF is ended next year, is what is shameful
    I am not endorsing Starmer but just showing how utterly out of touch you are with common sense
    Starmer is delivering a fairly good government. It's not economically unsound either. Easily the best Tory government since Major. (I really do make this as a serious point)

    erm well wake me up we he starts seen no evidence so far
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,001
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Hey, @Leon, seen this.

    Nonce from Pakistan wins right to stay in UK he faces ‘fatwa’ if deported.

    😳🙄

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14734579/Pakistani-paedophile-teenage-girl-UK-fatwa.html

    Another million votes for Reform

    Don't the powers-that-be realise what they are doing? These idiot lawyers? These wanker judges?

    Maybe they do, and they simply do not care
    So we send the nasty whatsit back to face certain death? However nasty he is, however vile his crime?
    He isn't facing "certain death".
    "Your sentence has been commuted from certain death to probable death!"
    What are the rights of the current UK residents who’s risk of being assaulted have increased as a result of this judgement?

    Strangely perhaps in view of my earlier comment, but I agree with this. Just saying 'he can't go back 'cos he'll be killed' is only part of it. Somehow he has to be stopped from re-offending...... re-educated so that he doesn't, or restrained in some way.
    Maybe if he's Moslem 'we' should be engaging more with people in that community who can make a difference. And/or religious and social leaders in that community should be encouraged to spell out even more clearly to their communities that this sort of behaviour isn't tolerated anywhere.
    His last conviction was 2013. Has he reoffended since?

    Probably never seen anyone claim paedophiles could be rehabilitated
    I don’t believe their underlying preferences
    ever change but they can control actions.
    You let a child molester out what
    percentage do you want to endure, how
    many traumatized children is worth it?
    Personally I think anyone who has been sentenced to more than x (say 3) years in prison automatically forfeits their right to be in this country regardless of the risks they face elsewhere. Actions have consequences.

    On releasing paedophiles if they have served their sentence they should be released. It’s a simple as that.

    Shrugs I just look it from the new victims point of view sorry
    Then campaign to get the law changed so sentences are increased.

    I don’t believe in whole of life sentences
    I didn't advocate whole life sentences
    May be I misunderstood but I thought you were advocating that paedophiles should never be released from prison and, if they
    were, it was the authorities who should be blamed for any future crimes
    Nope I think transportation is the answer....pick a deserted island somewhere surround by warships so they can't get off. Drop supplies on the beach but otherwise let them sort themselves out. Separate the criminal arseholes from the rest of us
    Like Pitcairn then
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,601
    Pagan2 said:

    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Mad King is having an even madder than usual one in the Oval Office right now

    Just shown the South African President a video about genocide of white farmers, Ramphosa probably the only world leader treating farmers worse than Starmer now. The South African Agriculture Minister though says most white farmers still want to stay rather than leave (CNN has a piece on Orania, a separatist “Afrikaner-only” settlement in the country’s Northern Cape) and the government is tackling livestock theft.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cpqe7rp388vt
    https://edition.cnn.com/2025/05/21/africa/trump-resettling-south-africas-afrikaners-intl
    'Ramphosa probably the only world leader treating farmers worse than Starmer now'

    Do you ever stop and think what you write

    To even suggest that is utter hyperbole and just wrong
    No, Ramphosa is confiscating some family farms much like Starmer effectively is with the family farms tax
    You should be ashamed of yourself

    It is not remotely comparable

    You embarrass this conservative with utterance such as this
    No, you sucking up to Starmer over our farmers whose livelihood he is wrecking, some of whom are even considering suicide to pass on their farm to their son before full APF is ended next year, is what is shameful
    I am not endorsing Starmer but just showing how utterly out of touch you are with common sense
    Starmer is delivering a fairly good government. It's not economically unsound either. Easily the best Tory government since Major. (I really do make this as a serious point)

    erm well wake me up we he starts seen no evidence so far
    The nodding off moment is so random and lovely.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,518

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Hey, @Leon, seen this.

    Nonce from Pakistan wins right to stay in UK he faces ‘fatwa’ if deported.

    😳🙄

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14734579/Pakistani-paedophile-teenage-girl-UK-fatwa.html

    Another million votes for Reform

    Don't the powers-that-be realise what they are doing? These idiot lawyers? These wanker judges?

    Maybe they do, and they simply do not care
    So we send the nasty whatsit back to face certain death? However nasty he is, however vile his crime?
    He isn't facing "certain death".
    "Your sentence has been commuted from certain death to probable death!"
    What are the rights of the current UK residents who’s risk of being assaulted have increased as a result of this judgement?

    Strangely perhaps in view of my earlier comment, but I agree with this. Just saying 'he can't go back 'cos he'll be killed' is only part of it. Somehow he has to be stopped from re-offending...... re-educated so that he doesn't, or restrained in some way.
    Maybe if he's Moslem 'we' should be engaging more with people in that community who can make a difference. And/or religious and social leaders in that community should be encouraged to spell out even more clearly to their communities that this sort of behaviour isn't tolerated anywhere.
    His last conviction was 2013. Has he reoffended since?

    Probably never seen anyone claim paedophiles could be rehabilitated
    I don’t believe their underlying preferences
    ever change but they can control actions.
    You let a child molester out what
    percentage do you want to endure, how
    many traumatized children is worth it?
    Personally I think anyone who has been sentenced to more than x (say 3) years in prison automatically forfeits their right to be in this country regardless of the risks they face elsewhere. Actions have consequences.

    On releasing paedophiles if they have served their sentence they should be released. It’s a simple as that.

    Shrugs I just look it from the new victims point of view sorry
    Then campaign to get the law changed so sentences are increased.

    I don’t believe in whole of life sentences
    I didn't advocate whole life sentences
    May be I misunderstood but I thought you were advocating that paedophiles should never be released from prison and, if they
    were, it was the authorities who should be blamed for any future crimes
    Nope I think transportation is the answer....pick a deserted island somewhere surround by warships so they can't get off. Drop supplies on the beach but otherwise let them sort themselves out. Separate the criminal arseholes from the rest of us
    Like Pitcairn then
    Well tbh would have a womens island and a mens island so they dont breed
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,166
    I love this city. Apparently, we have invented - and are now marketing - a new font. A lovely juxtaposition of Mancunian obsession with image and Mancunian self-importance.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,285
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Two points:

    Firstly, who are the people who want to join the EU but don't want to join the Customs Union or Single Market?

    Secondly, agreeing that Brexit has been a failure is different from thinking it was a bad idea. It was a good idea, poorly executed by the Tories. Labour are now attempting to turn the crap Tory version of Brexit into a positive Labour version of Brexit.

    (I appreciate that some will thing that there is no such thing as a good version of Brexit; here we will differ.)

    I'm baffled by the idea that "Brexit has been a failure". Brexit simply meant leaving the EU, no longer paying money into the EU, no longer having a say in how the EU evolves and so on. That has been completed successfully. People believe it has been a failure because they feel that they are worse off now than before Brexit. The trouble is we have two ginormous confounders - Covid and a major war in Europe that mask the effects of Brexit. Too often this is not accounted for. Too often the negative of Brexit seems to devolve to "I had to queue at the airport while others just breezed through".

    If the only reason for voting for Brexit was that you believed it would be economically in Britain's interest to do so then you may proclaim it a failure. But that was never the case.
    It's not an easy thing to assess. At the price of a smaller economy (duly delivered) there was meant to be the intangible benefit of people feeling more sovereign and in control. This does not seem to have transpired. They're as grumpy as ever. But it could be an improved type of grumpiness now we're outside the EU. A grumpiness leavened by a sense of freedom and autonomy. If so, and you feel this outweighs the economic hit, you can argue Brexit has been a success.
    We dont however have a smaller economy gdp has grown year on year by about the same as it did when we were in the EU. This idea we lost 4 percent gdp assumes we would have grown at a rate faster than we ever did in the EU....its a prediction of what may have happened from a europhillic organistation
    You can never prove the impact because there's no counterfactual - but that leaving the EU was economically damaging (since it introduced a load of friction into trade/commerce between us and our single largest counterparty) is about as close to a fact as you can get in these choppy waters. The vast majority of informed opinion (which excludes both you and I) says so and the vast majority of informed opinion on anything is usually right.
    You're assuming that ever easier trade with a group the UK has a massive trade deficit with is always a good thing.
    I'm not assuming anything. I just don't feel empowered to go against the overwhelming informed consensus on Brexit being a hit to the UK economy.

    But as I say, there is hopefully the intangible benefit of people feeling more sovereign. I don't, I must admit, but perhaps those who voted Leave do.

    Do PB Leavers feel more sovereign?
    We are more sovereign. That is an indisputable fact. I'm not sure what it is you think you should be 'feeling' that you aren't, but perhaps that's better discussed with a qualified professional.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,166

    DavidL said:

    Oh Spurs, please be Spursy tonight.

    Be funny if they won something now Kane has left to try and win something.
    "Leaving to win things" always strikes me as the epitome of disloyalty. Leaving for more money I can understand - leaving because you lot aren't good enough for me warrants a slap.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,001
    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Hey, @Leon, seen this.

    Nonce from Pakistan wins right to stay in UK he faces ‘fatwa’ if deported.

    😳🙄

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14734579/Pakistani-paedophile-teenage-girl-UK-fatwa.html

    Another million votes for Reform

    Don't the powers-that-be realise what they are doing? These idiot lawyers? These wanker judges?

    Maybe they do, and they simply do not care
    So we send the nasty whatsit back to face certain death? However nasty he is, however vile his crime?
    He isn't facing "certain death".
    "Your sentence has been commuted from certain death to probable death!"
    What are the rights of the current UK residents who’s risk of being assaulted have increased as a result of this judgement?

    Strangely perhaps in view of my earlier comment, but I agree with this. Just saying 'he can't go back 'cos he'll be killed' is only part of it. Somehow he has to be stopped from re-offending...... re-educated so that he doesn't, or restrained in some way.
    Maybe if he's Moslem 'we' should be engaging more with people in that community who can make a difference. And/or religious and social leaders in that community should be encouraged to spell out even more clearly to their communities that this sort of behaviour isn't tolerated anywhere.
    His last conviction was 2013. Has he reoffended since?

    Probably never seen anyone claim paedophiles could be rehabilitated
    I don’t believe their underlying preferences
    ever change but they can control actions.
    You let a child molester out what
    percentage do you want to endure, how
    many traumatized children is worth it?
    Personally I think anyone who has been sentenced to more than x (say 3) years in prison automatically forfeits their right to be in this country regardless of the risks they face elsewhere. Actions have consequences.

    On releasing paedophiles if they have served their sentence they should be released. It’s a simple as that.

    Shrugs I just look it from the new victims point of view sorry
    Then campaign to get the law changed so sentences are increased.

    I don’t believe in whole of life sentences
    I didn't advocate whole life sentences
    May be I misunderstood but I thought you were advocating that paedophiles should never be released from prison and, if they were, it was the authorities who should be blamed for any future crimes
    Nope I think transportation is the answer....pick a deserted island somewhere surround by warships so they can't get off. Drop supplies on the beach but otherwise let them sort themselves out. Separate the criminal arseholes from the rest of us
    Why do you need warships if it's a desert island?
    I meant deserted not desert, there maybe trees they could build a raft from and also some misguided individuals may try and rescue them.


    Now you may think I am being harsh here but here is a question for people who support rehabilitation and its a serious one. We will refer to paedophiles as that was the thing that kicked off the discussion

    How many newly traumatized victims of child rape are you happy to tolerate to bring convicted paedophiles back into the community that have served their sentence?
    If they have served their sentence then they have served their sentence. You can’t just have an additional sentence of transportation because you don’t like them.

    And the burden on proof is on you, not the defenders of liberty and human rights. I personally don’t want to give the state that power. Today pedophiles… tomorrow Lib Dems…
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,046

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Mad King is having an even madder than usual one in the Oval Office right now

    Just shown the South African President a video about genocide of white farmers, Ramphosa probably the only world leader treating farmers worse than Starmer now. The South African Agriculture Minister though says most white farmers still want to stay rather than leave (CNN has a piece on Orania, a separatist “Afrikaner-only” settlement in the country’s Northern Cape) and the government is tackling livestock theft.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cpqe7rp388vt
    https://edition.cnn.com/2025/05/21/africa/trump-resettling-south-africas-afrikaners-intl
    'Ramphosa probably the only world leader treating farmers worse than Starmer now'

    Do you ever stop and think what you write

    To even suggest that is utter hyperbole and just wrong
    No, Ramphosa is confiscating some family farms much like Starmer effectively is with the family farms tax
    You should be ashamed of yourself

    It is not remotely comparable

    You embarrass this conservative with utterance such as this
    Anyone who wants to understand why the Tories are circling the pan just needs to spend some time reading HYUFDs posts.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,267

    So is Trump's plan to say something outrageous knowing that his opponents will go crazy and probably start defending the South African government to the hilt, making themselves look silly in the process?

    I think the 'plan' is just the first bit.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,518

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Hey, @Leon, seen this.

    Nonce from Pakistan wins right to stay in UK he faces ‘fatwa’ if deported.

    😳🙄

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14734579/Pakistani-paedophile-teenage-girl-UK-fatwa.html

    Another million votes for Reform

    Don't the powers-that-be realise what they are doing? These idiot lawyers? These wanker judges?

    Maybe they do, and they simply do not care
    So we send the nasty whatsit back to face certain death? However nasty he is, however vile his crime?
    He isn't facing "certain death".
    "Your sentence has been commuted from certain death to probable death!"
    What are the rights of the current UK residents who’s risk of being assaulted have increased as a result of this judgement?

    Strangely perhaps in view of my earlier comment, but I agree with this. Just saying 'he can't go back 'cos he'll be killed' is only part of it. Somehow he has to be stopped from re-offending...... re-educated so that he doesn't, or restrained in some way.
    Maybe if he's Moslem 'we' should be engaging more with people in that community who can make a difference. And/or religious and social leaders in that community should be encouraged to spell out even more clearly to their communities that this sort of behaviour isn't tolerated anywhere.
    His last conviction was 2013. Has he reoffended since?

    Probably never seen anyone claim paedophiles could be rehabilitated
    I don’t believe their underlying preferences
    ever change but they can control actions.
    You let a child molester out what
    percentage do you want to endure, how
    many traumatized children is worth it?
    Personally I think anyone who has been sentenced to more than x (say 3) years in prison automatically forfeits their right to be in this country regardless of the risks they face elsewhere. Actions have consequences.

    On releasing paedophiles if they have served their sentence they should be released. It’s a simple as that.

    Shrugs I just look it from the new victims point of view sorry
    Then campaign to get the law changed so sentences are increased.

    I don’t believe in whole of life sentences
    I didn't advocate whole life sentences
    May be I misunderstood but I thought you were advocating that paedophiles should never be released from prison and, if they were, it was the authorities who should be blamed for any future crimes
    Nope I think transportation is the answer....pick a deserted island somewhere surround by warships so they can't get off. Drop supplies on the beach but otherwise let them sort themselves out. Separate the criminal arseholes from the rest of us
    Why do you need warships if it's a desert island?
    I meant deserted not desert, there maybe trees they could build a raft from and also some misguided individuals may try and rescue them.


    Now you may think I am being harsh here but here is a question for people who support rehabilitation and its a serious one. We will refer to paedophiles as that was the thing that kicked off the discussion

    How many newly traumatized victims of child rape are you happy to tolerate to bring convicted paedophiles back into the community that have served their sentence?
    If they have served their sentence then they have served their sentence. You can’t just have an additional sentence of transportation because you don’t like them.

    And the burden on proof is on you, not the defenders of liberty and human rights. I personally don’t want to give the state that power. Today pedophiles… tomorrow Lib Dems…
    Its not however a further sentence....

    Answer my question how many innocent children are you happy to see raped because they served a sentence? Go on put a number down
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,285
    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    TimS said:

    Of course if we were in Schengen like Switzerland is, we wouldn’t even need e-gates, and the small boat crossings would stop overnight.

    That's like saying that we could stop the small boat crossings by sending a big boat to collect everyone.
    Well Tim’s a Lib Dem and I don’t doubt that is something the Lib Dem’s would rather do than stop the boats or limit the numbers.
    Been away, doing work and all that, so thought I’d come back to see the reactions to my Schengen suggestion. Good to see Taz dropping the L-word again.

    I am only partly suggesting this in jest. The fact is the most iniquitous part of irregular migration to the UK - the bit most associated with organised crime, death, coercion and general crapness - is the dangerous boat crossings made by people camped out on the French coast.

    If we were in Schengen the total numbers arriving in Britain would almost certainly rise. But I chose Switzerland as an example because it has a border you can just walk or drive across, but pretty strict immigration and asylum laws. It manages illegal immigration through policing of the black market, access to services and the right to work. People talk warmly of Denmark’s tough immigration rules. It’s in Schengen. There are no small illegal boat crossings across the Kiel canal.

    Join Schengen and there are no more boat crossings. People just take the ferry. No more jungle in Calais. No more payments to France to police crossings. Instead, you’d need an overhaul of what happens when people arrive: a properly funded asylum system, a returns agreement with continental neighbours, all the other tools of the trade. The only gangs you’d need to smash would be those employing illegal workers in Britain, not the people smugglers.

    So give Schengen another look. It’s something at least one otherwise decidedly right wing flint knapping poster has advocated in recent history.
    Are you still wishing to encourage UK consumers to go on a spending spree? Just wondering whether that particular wheeze has survived the latest inflation figures.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,682
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Watching the latest Trump cartoon show.

    Bloody hell - what on earth will the SA press say tomorrow?

    "Kill the boor"?
    Well this is the most racist press conference I've ever seen. It's just awful.
    I believe the nazis probably had a few that you havent seen then
    I concede the point.
    Omnium said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Watching the latest Trump cartoon show.

    Bloody hell - what on earth will the SA press say tomorrow?

    "Kill the boor"?
    Well this is the most racist press conference I've ever seen. It's just awful.
    I believe the nazis probably had a few that you havent seen then
    I concede the point.
    Omnium said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Watching the latest Trump cartoon show.

    Bloody hell - what on earth will the SA press say tomorrow?

    "Kill the boor"?
    Well this is the most racist press conference I've ever seen. It's just awful.
    I believe the nazis probably had a few that you havent seen then
    I concede the point.
    The Imperial Japanese Army, at Nanking, updated the Japanese press, daily, on the progress of the beheading competition that some of its soldiers were having. As in - who could behead more civilian Chinese prisoners.
    I'm not clear quite why you should use me conceding a minor point as a thrice-forceful argument!
    I took it as a challenge - “find the most racist press conference ever”

    A press conference to update the world on the progress of your racist, genocidal war crime (on going) has to be near the front.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,414
    The treasury yield story is a classic case of Anglosphere social media convergence. People - Democrat commentators- breathlessly report a hike in US yields (they’re up a lot today because of US finance bill wrangling) and British readers assume it’s about the UK yield (they’re flat today because no fiscal news).

    It doesn’t help that we both call our finance ministry the Treasury.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,414
    edited May 21

    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    TimS said:

    Of course if we were in Schengen like Switzerland is, we wouldn’t even need e-gates, and the small boat crossings would stop overnight.

    That's like saying that we could stop the small boat crossings by sending a big boat to collect everyone.
    Well Tim’s a Lib Dem and I don’t doubt that is something the Lib Dem’s would rather do than stop the boats or limit the numbers.
    Been away, doing work and all that, so thought I’d come back to see the reactions to my Schengen suggestion. Good to see Taz dropping the L-word again.

    I am only partly suggesting this in jest. The fact is the most iniquitous part of irregular migration to the UK - the bit most associated with organised crime, death, coercion and general crapness - is the dangerous boat crossings made by people camped out on the French coast.

    If we were in Schengen the total numbers arriving in Britain would almost certainly rise. But I chose Switzerland as an example because it has a border you can just walk or drive across, but pretty strict immigration and asylum laws. It manages illegal immigration through policing of the black market, access to services and the right to work. People talk warmly of Denmark’s tough immigration rules. It’s in Schengen. There are no small illegal boat crossings across the Kiel canal.

    Join Schengen and there are no more boat crossings. People just take the ferry. No more jungle in Calais. No more payments to France to police crossings. Instead, you’d need an overhaul of what happens when people arrive: a properly funded asylum system, a returns agreement with continental neighbours, all the other tools of the trade. The only gangs you’d need to smash would be those employing illegal workers in Britain, not the people smugglers.

    So give Schengen another look. It’s something at least one otherwise decidedly right wing flint knapping poster has advocated in recent history.
    Are you still wishing to encourage UK consumers to go on a spending spree? Just wondering whether that particular wheeze has survived the latest inflation figures.
    Absolutely, and I commented at length on it this morning.

    The latest inflation news is a mix of bad news (utility bill rises) and good news (wage-driven service inflation coupled with falling inflation in most goods categories).

    We finally have (well apart from water bills) the good sort of inflation, like the 90s and noughties. And crucially not like Japan in the 90s and noughties.

    I am in a minority among my macro-fiscal colleagues, it’s fair to say, but give them time.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,157

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Hey, @Leon, seen this.

    Nonce from Pakistan wins right to stay in UK he faces ‘fatwa’ if deported.

    😳🙄

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14734579/Pakistani-paedophile-teenage-girl-UK-fatwa.html

    Another million votes for Reform

    Don't the powers-that-be realise what they are doing? These idiot lawyers? These wanker judges?

    Maybe they do, and they simply do not care
    So we send the nasty whatsit back to face certain death? However nasty he is, however vile his crime?
    He isn't facing "certain death".
    "Your sentence has been commuted from certain death to probable death!"
    What are the rights of the current UK residents who’s risk of being assaulted have increased as a result of this judgement?

    Strangely perhaps in view of my earlier comment, but I agree with this. Just saying 'he can't go back 'cos he'll be killed' is only part of it. Somehow he has to be stopped from re-offending...... re-educated so that he doesn't, or restrained in some way.
    Maybe if he's Moslem 'we' should be engaging more with people in that community who can make a difference. And/or religious and social leaders in that community should be encouraged to spell out even more clearly to their communities that this sort of behaviour isn't tolerated anywhere.
    His last conviction was 2013. Has he reoffended since?

    Probably never seen anyone claim paedophiles could be rehabilitated
    I don’t believe their underlying preferences
    ever change but they can control actions.
    You let a child molester out what
    percentage do you want to endure, how
    many traumatized children is worth it?
    Personally I think anyone who has been sentenced to more than x (say 3) years in prison automatically forfeits their right to be in this country regardless of the risks they face elsewhere. Actions have consequences.

    On releasing paedophiles if they have served their sentence they should be released. It’s a simple as that.

    Shrugs I just look it from the new victims point of view sorry
    Then campaign to get the law changed so sentences are increased.

    I don’t believe in whole of life sentences
    I didn't advocate whole life sentences
    May be I misunderstood but I thought you were advocating that paedophiles should never be released from prison and, if they
    were, it was the authorities who should be blamed for any future crimes
    Nope I think transportation is the answer....pick a deserted island somewhere surround by warships so they can't get off. Drop supplies on the beach but otherwise let them sort themselves out. Separate the criminal arseholes from the rest of us
    Like Pitcairn then
    Not quite deserted - their most recent election had 35 voters!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,285
    Kemi will have given Tory MPs a bit of heart at PMQs.

    Nervous adrenaline makes her throw away words she should be lingering on sometimes. It happens to Sir quite often too, though it's the least of his worries.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,545
    edited May 21
    So the IOWC is having its annual meeting tonight, setting things up for the extra year gifted to it by the government before it faces the 2026 elections and then devolution, and coincidentally at the same time it is about to abandon Blair's cabinet system and return to the pre-2000 situation of committee governance.

    The vote for council leader, between the existing alliance/independent leader and the leader of the Tory group was tied. The newly elected chair cast his casting vote in favour of the current independent, the previous chair having got the hump at being ousted and having voted for the Tory.

    For deputy leader, the LibDem leader got one more vote than the leader of the Tory-fellow-traveller 'empowering islanders' group.

    So the independent/centre-left group keeps control - insofar as 'control' is the right word in a committee system - in the runup to next year's elections. But of course all of them, from left to right, are very well aware that a bunch of Reform numpties look currently very well placed to take all of their seats.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,355

    DavidL said:

    Oh Spurs, please be Spursy tonight.

    Be funny if they won something now Kane has left to try and win something.
    No. It wouldn't.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,247

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Hey, @Leon, seen this.

    Nonce from Pakistan wins right to stay in UK he faces ‘fatwa’ if deported.

    😳🙄

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14734579/Pakistani-paedophile-teenage-girl-UK-fatwa.html

    Another million votes for Reform

    Don't the powers-that-be realise what they are doing? These idiot lawyers? These wanker judges?

    Maybe they do, and they simply do not care
    So we send the nasty whatsit back to face certain death? However nasty he is, however vile his crime?
    He isn't facing "certain death".
    "Your sentence has been commuted from certain death to probable death!"
    What are the rights of the current UK residents who’s risk of being assaulted have increased as a result of this judgement?

    Strangely perhaps in view of my earlier comment, but I agree with this. Just saying 'he can't go back 'cos he'll be killed' is only part of it. Somehow he has to be stopped from re-offending...... re-educated so that he doesn't, or restrained in some way.
    Maybe if he's Moslem 'we' should be engaging more with people in that community who can make a difference. And/or religious and social leaders in that community should be encouraged to spell out even more clearly to their communities that this sort of behaviour isn't tolerated anywhere.
    His last conviction was 2013. Has he reoffended since?

    Probably never seen anyone claim paedophiles could be rehabilitated
    I don’t believe their underlying preferences
    ever change but they can control actions.
    You let a child molester out what
    percentage do you want to endure, how
    many traumatized children is worth it?
    Personally I think anyone who has been sentenced to more than x (say 3) years in prison automatically forfeits their right to be in this country regardless of the risks they face elsewhere. Actions have consequences.

    On releasing paedophiles if they have served their sentence they should be released. It’s a simple as that.

    Shrugs I just look it from the new victims point of view sorry
    Then campaign to get the law changed so sentences are increased.

    I don’t believe in whole of life sentences
    I didn't advocate whole life sentences
    May be I misunderstood but I thought you were advocating that paedophiles should never be released from prison and, if they
    were, it was the authorities who should be blamed for any future crimes
    Nope I think transportation is the answer....pick a deserted island somewhere surround by warships so they can't get off. Drop supplies on the beach but otherwise let them sort themselves out. Separate the criminal arseholes from the rest of us
    Like Pitcairn then
    Not quite deserted - their most recent election had 35 voters!
    Sending pedos to Pitcairn would be a tad insensitive to say the least
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 248

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Donald J Trump is an effing great twat, but is PB really defending the odious South African regime?

    A bunch of corrupt, racist crooks

    So actually quite a good match for Trump, and certainly no better

    There seems an unwillingness to contemplate that the heirs to Nelson Mandela are actually no better than Robert Mugabe.

    This is what happens when you divide the world into goodies and baddies. Didn't Peter Hain once write a book in which Robert Mugabe was the hero?


    Around the time that Norman Tebbit was calling for Mandela to be hanged, as I recall.
    These things tend to cut both ways.
    Did Tebbit say that????

    I can't find anything on it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,267
    Omnium said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Mad King is having an even madder than usual one in the Oval Office right now

    Just shown the South African President a video about genocide of white farmers, Ramphosa probably the only world leader treating farmers worse than Starmer now. The South African Agriculture Minister though says most white farmers still want to stay rather than leave (CNN has a piece on Orania, a separatist “Afrikaner-only” settlement in the country’s Northern Cape) and the government is tackling livestock theft.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cpqe7rp388vt
    https://edition.cnn.com/2025/05/21/africa/trump-resettling-south-africas-afrikaners-intl
    'Ramphosa probably the only world leader treating farmers worse than Starmer now'

    Do you ever stop and think what you write

    To even suggest that is utter hyperbole and just wrong
    No, Ramphosa is confiscating some family farms much like Starmer effectively is with the family farms tax
    You should be ashamed of yourself

    It is not remotely comparable

    You embarrass this conservative with utterance such as this
    No, you sucking up to Starmer over our farmers whose livelihood he is wrecking, some of whom are even considering suicide to pass on their farm to their son before full APF is ended next year, is what is shameful
    I am not endorsing Starmer but just showing how utterly out of touch you are with common sense
    Starmer is delivering a fairly good government. It's not economically unsound either. Easily the best Tory government since Major. (I really do make this as a serious point)

    erm well wake me up we he starts seen no evidence so far
    The nodding off moment is so random and lovely.
    That's not how Joe Biden's team saw it last summer.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,633
    TimS said:

    The treasury yield story is a classic case of Anglosphere social media convergence. People - Democrat commentators- breathlessly report a hike in US yields (they’re up a lot today because of US finance bill wrangling) and British readers assume it’s about the UK yield (they’re flat today because no fiscal news).

    It doesn’t help that we both call our finance ministry the Treasury.

    Yeah, our gilts just look normally bad 😞 I wonder when we'll next see them below 1%?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,518
    edited May 21

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Hey, @Leon, seen this.

    Nonce from Pakistan wins right to stay in UK he faces ‘fatwa’ if deported.

    😳🙄

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14734579/Pakistani-paedophile-teenage-girl-UK-fatwa.html

    Another million votes for Reform

    Don't the powers-that-be realise what they are doing? These idiot lawyers? These wanker judges?

    Maybe they do, and they simply do not care
    So we send the nasty whatsit back to face certain death? However nasty he is, however vile his crime?
    He isn't facing "certain death".
    "Your sentence has been commuted from certain death to probable death!"
    What are the rights of the current UK residents who’s risk of being assaulted have increased as a result of this judgement?

    Strangely perhaps in view of my earlier comment, but I agree with this. Just saying 'he can't go back 'cos he'll be killed' is only part of it. Somehow he has to be stopped from re-offending...... re-educated so that he doesn't, or restrained in some way.
    Maybe if he's Moslem 'we' should be engaging more with people in that community who can make a difference. And/or religious and social leaders in that community should be encouraged to spell out even more clearly to their communities that this sort of behaviour isn't tolerated anywhere.
    His last conviction was 2013. Has he reoffended since?

    Probably never seen anyone claim paedophiles could be rehabilitated
    I don’t believe their underlying preferences
    ever change but they can control actions.
    You let a child molester out what
    percentage do you want to endure, how
    many traumatized children is worth it?
    Personally I think anyone who has been sentenced to more than x (say 3) years in prison automatically forfeits their right to be in this country regardless of the risks they face elsewhere. Actions have consequences.

    On releasing paedophiles if they have served their sentence they should be released. It’s a simple as that.

    Shrugs I just look it from the new victims point of view sorry
    Then campaign to get the law changed so sentences are increased.

    I don’t believe in whole of life sentences
    I didn't advocate whole life sentences
    May be I misunderstood but I thought you were advocating that paedophiles should never be released from prison and, if they
    were, it was the authorities who should be blamed for any future crimes
    Nope I think transportation is the answer....pick a deserted island somewhere surround by warships so they can't get off. Drop supplies on the beach but otherwise let them sort themselves out. Separate the criminal arseholes from the rest of us
    Like Pitcairn then
    Not quite deserted - their most recent election had 35 voters!
    Sending pedos to Pitcairn would be a tad insensitive to say the least
    I didnt suggest pitcairn

    However it does annoy me with these rehabilitaitionsits

    They know damn well because statistics show it the for every 1000 paedophiles released there will be a minimum of 400 child victims probably more because a lot wont get caught at the first rape.

    However they say its inhumane to say transport them to an island after their sentence where they can live free with no temptation

    Never once do they ever consider the future victims....sorry makes my blood boil
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,267

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Two points:

    Firstly, who are the people who want to join the EU but don't want to join the Customs Union or Single Market?

    Secondly, agreeing that Brexit has been a failure is different from thinking it was a bad idea. It was a good idea, poorly executed by the Tories. Labour are now attempting to turn the crap Tory version of Brexit into a positive Labour version of Brexit.

    (I appreciate that some will thing that there is no such thing as a good version of Brexit; here we will differ.)

    I'm baffled by the idea that "Brexit has been a failure". Brexit simply meant leaving the EU, no longer paying money into the EU, no longer having a say in how the EU evolves and so on. That has been completed successfully. People believe it has been a failure because they feel that they are worse off now than before Brexit. The trouble is we have two ginormous confounders - Covid and a major war in Europe that mask the effects of Brexit. Too often this is not accounted for. Too often the negative of Brexit seems to devolve to "I had to queue at the airport while others just breezed through".

    If the only reason for voting for Brexit was that you believed it would be economically in Britain's interest to do so then you may proclaim it a failure. But that was never the case.
    It's not an easy thing to assess. At the price of a smaller economy (duly delivered) there was meant to be the intangible benefit of people feeling more sovereign and in control. This does not seem to have transpired. They're as grumpy as ever. But it could be an improved type of grumpiness now we're outside the EU. A grumpiness leavened by a sense of freedom and autonomy. If so, and you feel this outweighs the economic hit, you can argue Brexit has been a success.
    We dont however have a smaller economy gdp has grown year on year by about the same as it did when we were in the EU. This idea we lost 4 percent gdp assumes we would have grown at a rate faster than we ever did in the EU....its a prediction of what may have happened from a europhillic organistation
    You can never prove the impact because there's no counterfactual - but that leaving the EU was economically damaging (since it introduced a load of friction into trade/commerce between us and our single largest counterparty) is about as close to a fact as you can get in these choppy waters. The vast majority of informed opinion (which excludes both you and I) says so and the vast majority of informed opinion on anything is usually right.
    You're assuming that ever easier trade with a group the UK has a massive trade deficit with is always a good thing.
    I'm not assuming anything. I just don't feel empowered to go against the overwhelming informed consensus on Brexit being a hit to the UK economy.

    But as I say, there is hopefully the intangible benefit of people feeling more sovereign. I don't, I must admit, but perhaps those who voted Leave do.

    Do PB Leavers feel more sovereign?
    We are more sovereign. That is an indisputable fact. I'm not sure what it is you think you should be 'feeling' that you aren't, but perhaps that's better discussed with a qualified professional.
    It's all about feelings these days not the facts.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,601
    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    The treasury yield story is a classic case of Anglosphere social media convergence. People - Democrat commentators- breathlessly report a hike in US yields (they’re up a lot today because of US finance bill wrangling) and British readers assume it’s about the UK yield (they’re flat today because no fiscal news).

    It doesn’t help that we both call our finance ministry the Treasury.

    Yeah, our gilts just look normally bad 😞 I wonder when we'll next see them below 1%?
    1% what?

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,682
    A

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Donald J Trump is an effing great twat, but is PB really defending the odious South African regime?

    A bunch of corrupt, racist crooks

    So actually quite a good match for Trump, and certainly no better

    There seems an unwillingness to contemplate that the heirs to Nelson Mandela are actually no better than Robert Mugabe.

    This is what happens when you divide the world into goodies and baddies. Didn't Peter Hain once write a book in which Robert Mugabe was the hero?


    Around the time that Norman Tebbit was calling for Mandela to be hanged, as I recall.
    These things tend to cut both ways.
    Did Tebbit say that????

    I can't find anything on it.
    Actually it was Bercow who was a member of a student group that put up posters calling for Mandela to be hung.

    Tebbit, as party chairman, binned the group from the party as part of a clear out of extremists.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,031
    The U.S seems to have a bad bond sale today.
    Hence its stock markets are also concerned, too.
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 248
    TimS said:

    Those Treasury 30-year rates are horrific.

    No wonder the public finances are so dire.

    The ones being reported all over social media today are US ones.

    But UK yields are even higher. Should have joined the Euro (French 30 year yield 4.1%).
    The foolish idea that the Euro would be good as countries could borrow at lower rates than otherwise was one of its core faults. I don't think it's good if governments in a monetary union have wildly different bold yields.

    I presume France has lower inflation expectations than we do. Inflation of course makes debt more manageable.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,414
    edited May 21
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    TimS said:

    Of course if we were in Schengen like Switzerland is, we wouldn’t even need e-gates, and the small boat crossings would stop overnight.

    That's like saying that we could stop the small boat crossings by sending a big boat to collect everyone.
    Well Tim’s a Lib Dem and I don’t doubt that is something the Lib Dem’s would rather do than stop the boats or limit the numbers.
    Been away, doing work and all that, so thought I’d come back to see the reactions to my Schengen suggestion. Good to see Taz dropping the L-word again.

    I am only partly suggesting this in jest. The fact is the most iniquitous part of irregular migration to the UK - the bit most associated with organised crime, death, coercion and general crapness - is the dangerous boat crossings made by people camped out on the French coast.

    If we were in Schengen the total numbers arriving in Britain would almost certainly rise. But I chose Switzerland as an example because it has a border you can just walk or drive across, but pretty strict immigration and asylum laws. It manages illegal immigration through policing of the black market, access to services and the right to work. People talk warmly of Denmark’s tough immigration rules. It’s in Schengen. There are no small illegal boat crossings across the Kiel canal.

    Join Schengen and there are no more boat crossings. People just take the ferry. No more jungle in Calais. No more payments to France to police crossings. Instead, you’d need an overhaul of what happens when people arrive: a properly funded asylum system, a returns agreement with continental neighbours, all the other tools of the trade. The only gangs you’d need to smash would be those employing illegal workers in Britain, not the people smugglers.

    So give Schengen another look. It’s something at least one otherwise decidedly right wing flint knapping poster has advocated in recent history.
    Are you still wishing to encourage UK consumers to go on a spending spree? Just wondering whether that particular wheeze has survived the latest inflation figures.
    Absolutely, and I commented at length on it this morning.

    The latest inflation news is a mix of bad news (utility bill rises) and good news (wage-driven service inflation coupled with falling inflation in most goods categories).

    We finally have (well apart from water bills) the good sort of inflation, like the 90s and noughties. And crucially not like Japan in the 90s and noughties.

    I am in a minority among my macro-fiscal colleagues, it’s fair to say, but give them time.
    Some useful data here on UK household saving rates in recent years.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/uksectoraccounts/articles/householdsfinancesandsavinguk/2020to2024#:~:text=1.,benefits, such as pension contributions

    Highest since the early 90s recession, with the Covid period savings still under lock and key.

    And UK private debt to gdp:

    https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/private-debt-to-gdp

    Dry powder.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,247
    edited May 21
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Hey, @Leon, seen this.

    Nonce from Pakistan wins right to stay in UK he faces ‘fatwa’ if deported.

    😳🙄

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14734579/Pakistani-paedophile-teenage-girl-UK-fatwa.html

    Another million votes for Reform

    Don't the powers-that-be realise what they are doing? These idiot lawyers? These wanker judges?

    Maybe they do, and they simply do not care
    So we send the nasty whatsit back to face certain death? However nasty he is, however vile his crime?
    He isn't facing "certain death".
    "Your sentence has been commuted from certain death to probable death!"
    What are the rights of the current UK residents who’s risk of being assaulted have increased as a result of this judgement?

    Strangely perhaps in view of my earlier comment, but I agree with this. Just saying 'he can't go back 'cos he'll be killed' is only part of it. Somehow he has to be stopped from re-offending...... re-educated so that he doesn't, or restrained in some way.
    Maybe if he's Moslem 'we' should be engaging more with people in that community who can make a difference. And/or religious and social leaders in that community should be encouraged to spell out even more clearly to their communities that this sort of behaviour isn't tolerated anywhere.
    His last conviction was 2013. Has he reoffended since?

    Probably never seen anyone claim paedophiles could be rehabilitated
    I don’t believe their underlying preferences
    ever change but they can control actions.
    You let a child molester out what
    percentage do you want to endure, how
    many traumatized children is worth it?
    Personally I think anyone who has been sentenced to more than x (say 3) years in prison automatically forfeits their right to be in this country regardless of the risks they face elsewhere. Actions have consequences.

    On releasing paedophiles if they have served their sentence they should be released. It’s a simple as that.

    Shrugs I just look it from the new victims point of view sorry
    Then campaign to get the law changed so sentences are increased.

    I don’t believe in whole of life sentences
    I didn't advocate whole life sentences
    May be I misunderstood but I thought you were advocating that paedophiles should never be released from prison and, if they
    were, it was the authorities who should be blamed for any future crimes
    Nope I think transportation is the answer....pick a deserted island somewhere surround by warships so they can't get off. Drop supplies on the beach but otherwise let them sort themselves out. Separate the criminal arseholes from the rest of us
    Like Pitcairn then
    Not quite deserted - their most recent election had 35 voters!
    Sending pedos to Pitcairn would be a tad insensitive to say the least
    I didnt suggest pitcairn

    However it does annoy me with these rehabilitaitionsits

    They know damn well because statistics show it the for every 1000 paedophiles released there will be a minimum of 400 child victims probably more because a lot wont get caught at the first rape.

    However they say its inhumane to say transport them to an island after their sentence where they can live free with no temptation

    Never once do they ever consider the future victims....sorry makes my blood boil
    Sorry I was confusing who had first mentioned the island, I see it wasn't correlated to the original suggestion.
    It's a very challenging problem, recidivism is rife due to the entrenched nature of the perversion, so the usual 'Reform the criminal' stuff isn't really appropriate. Unpleasant and unhappy subject to consider
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,545
    Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,414

    TimS said:

    Those Treasury 30-year rates are horrific.

    No wonder the public finances are so dire.

    The ones being reported all over social media today are US ones.

    But UK yields are even higher. Should have joined the Euro (French 30 year yield 4.1%).
    The foolish idea that the Euro would be good as countries could borrow at lower rates than otherwise was one of its core faults. I don't think it's good if governments in a monetary union have wildly different bold yields.

    I presume France has lower inflation expectations than we do. Inflation of course makes debt more manageable.
    Lower inflation, and a stagnating economy. France is really having a mare of a year economically, not helped by its political turmoil.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,048
    El Crapico is proving worse than feared.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,545
    Now the IOWC meeting arrives at a chaotic point as neither the alliance/independent group nor the Tories have nominated anyone to chair the social care committee...
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,518

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Hey, @Leon, seen this.

    Nonce from Pakistan wins right to stay in UK he faces ‘fatwa’ if deported.

    😳🙄

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14734579/Pakistani-paedophile-teenage-girl-UK-fatwa.html

    Another million votes for Reform

    Don't the powers-that-be realise what they are doing? These idiot lawyers? These wanker judges?

    Maybe they do, and they simply do not care
    So we send the nasty whatsit back to face certain death? However nasty he is, however vile his crime?
    He isn't facing "certain death".
    "Your sentence has been commuted from certain death to probable death!"
    What are the rights of the current UK residents who’s risk of being assaulted have increased as a result of this judgement?

    Strangely perhaps in view of my earlier comment, but I agree with this. Just saying 'he can't go back 'cos he'll be killed' is only part of it. Somehow he has to be stopped from re-offending...... re-educated so that he doesn't, or restrained in some way.
    Maybe if he's Moslem 'we' should be engaging more with people in that community who can make a difference. And/or religious and social leaders in that community should be encouraged to spell out even more clearly to their communities that this sort of behaviour isn't tolerated anywhere.
    His last conviction was 2013. Has he reoffended since?

    Probably never seen anyone claim paedophiles could be rehabilitated
    I don’t believe their underlying preferences
    ever change but they can control actions.
    You let a child molester out what
    percentage do you want to endure, how
    many traumatized children is worth it?
    Personally I think anyone who has been sentenced to more than x (say 3) years in prison automatically forfeits their right to be in this country regardless of the risks they face elsewhere. Actions have consequences.

    On releasing paedophiles if they have served their sentence they should be released. It’s a simple as that.

    Shrugs I just look it from the new victims point of view sorry
    Then campaign to get the law changed so sentences are increased.

    I don’t believe in whole of life sentences
    I didn't advocate whole life sentences
    May be I misunderstood but I thought you were advocating that paedophiles should never be released from prison and, if they
    were, it was the authorities who should be blamed for any future crimes
    Nope I think transportation is the answer....pick a deserted island somewhere surround by warships so they can't get off. Drop supplies on the beach but otherwise let them sort themselves out. Separate the criminal arseholes from the rest of us
    Like Pitcairn then
    Not quite deserted - their most recent election had 35 voters!
    Sending pedos to Pitcairn would be a tad insensitive to say the least
    I didnt suggest pitcairn

    However it does annoy me with these rehabilitaitionsits

    They know damn well because statistics show it the for every 1000 paedophiles released there will be a minimum of 400 child victims probably more because a lot wont get caught at the first rape.

    However they say its inhumane to say transport them to an island after their sentence where they can live free with no temptation

    Never once do they ever consider the future victims....sorry makes my blood boil
    Sorry I was confusing who had first mentioned the island, I see it wasn't correlated to the original suggestion.
    It's a very challenging problem, recidivism is rife due to the enteprenched nature of the perversion, so the usual 'Reform the criminal' stuff isn't really appropriate. Unpleasant and unhappy subject to consider
    It is unpleasant and sadly there are things with a high recidivism rate and letting people out because they served there sentence leads to new victims. I am all for rehabilitation on the whole but as I said sometimes we have to weigh potential future victims against peoples right to rejoin society. An island where they can live free just not free to create the crimes that they were arrested for seems a good compromise
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,031

    A

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Donald J Trump is an effing great twat, but is PB really defending the odious South African regime?

    A bunch of corrupt, racist crooks

    So actually quite a good match for Trump, and certainly no better

    There seems an unwillingness to contemplate that the heirs to Nelson Mandela are actually no better than Robert Mugabe.

    This is what happens when you divide the world into goodies and baddies. Didn't Peter Hain once write a book in which Robert Mugabe was the hero?


    Around the time that Norman Tebbit was calling for Mandela to be hanged, as I recall.
    These things tend to cut both ways.
    Did Tebbit say that????

    I can't find anything on it.
    Actually it was Bercow who was a member of a student group that put up posters calling for Mandela to be hung.

    Tebbit, as party chairman, binned the group from the party as part of a clear out of extremists.
    I stand corrected, if so, and my apologies to Mr Tebbjt.

    He certainly was not a fan of Mandela then , though, always calling him a terrorist, so that may be why I mixed him up with Bercow, on this.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,949
    IanB2 said:

    Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.

    Well, luckily for them, they will have lots more time to queue, as it turns out Starmer made no e-gates deal for this summer, and what he did get is... nothing at all. Just the vague promise that some countries MAY open their e-gates if they want, or they may not. Which was the exact situation before he made his "deal"
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 248
    IanB2 said:

    Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.

    I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,450
    IanB2 said:

    Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.

    A quote from where? I’d like to see who has actually said that.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,545
    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.

    A quote from where? I’d like to see who has actually said that.
    Google is always your friend, since it's in italics as a quote
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,518

    IanB2 said:

    Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.

    I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
    It is not a major issue and you rarely have to queue unless you go to the states
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,285
    IanB2 said:

    Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.

    You've really gone off the deep end with the reception to Starmers bit of paper haven't you?

    Stay strong. x
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,450
    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.

    A quote from where? I’d like to see who has actually said that.
    Google is always your friend, since it's in italics as a quote
    Seriously? I was always taught to cite my quotations.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,771
    Very off topic, but possibly the most nauseating corporate/VC videos I've ever seen :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W09bIpc_3ms

    OpenAI/Jony Ive 'merger'

    "Jony's running a design firm called LoveFrom. I think, the densest collection of talent that I've ever heard of in one place - and probably has ever existed in the world."

    🤔




  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,693

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Hey, @Leon, seen this.

    Nonce from Pakistan wins right to stay in UK he faces ‘fatwa’ if deported.

    😳🙄

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14734579/Pakistani-paedophile-teenage-girl-UK-fatwa.html

    Another million votes for Reform

    Don't the powers-that-be realise what they are doing? These idiot lawyers? These wanker judges?

    Maybe they do, and they simply do not care
    So we send the nasty whatsit back to face certain death? However nasty he is, however vile his crime?
    He isn't facing "certain death".
    "Your sentence has been commuted from certain death to probable death!"
    What are the rights of the current UK residents who’s risk of being assaulted have increased as a result of this judgement?

    Strangely perhaps in view of my earlier comment, but I agree with this. Just saying 'he can't go back 'cos he'll be killed' is only part of it. Somehow he has to be stopped from re-offending...... re-educated so that he doesn't, or restrained in some way.
    Maybe if he's Moslem 'we' should be engaging more with people in that community who can make a difference. And/or religious and social leaders in that community should be encouraged to spell out even more clearly to their communities that this sort of behaviour isn't tolerated anywhere.
    His last conviction was 2013. Has he reoffended since?

    Probably never seen anyone claim paedophiles could be rehabilitated
    I don’t believe their underlying preferences
    ever change but they can control actions.
    You let a child molester out what
    percentage do you want to endure, how
    many traumatized children is worth it?
    Personally I think anyone who has been sentenced to more than x (say 3) years in prison automatically forfeits their right to be in this country regardless of the risks they face elsewhere. Actions have consequences.

    On releasing paedophiles if they have served their sentence they should be released. It’s a simple as that.

    Shrugs I just look it from the new victims point of view sorry
    Then campaign to get the law changed so sentences are increased.

    I don’t believe in whole of life sentences
    I didn't advocate whole life sentences
    May be I misunderstood but I thought you were advocating that paedophiles should never be released from prison and, if they
    were, it was the authorities who should be blamed for any future crimes
    Nope I think transportation is the answer....pick a deserted island somewhere surround by warships so they can't get off. Drop supplies on the beach but otherwise let them sort themselves out. Separate the criminal arseholes from the rest of us
    Like Pitcairn then
    Not quite deserted - their most recent election had 35 voters!
    Sending pedos to Pitcairn would be a tad insensitive to say the least
    I didnt suggest pitcairn

    However it does annoy me with these rehabilitaitionsits

    They know damn well because statistics show it the for every 1000 paedophiles released there will be a minimum of 400 child victims probably more because a lot wont get caught at the first rape.

    However they say its inhumane to say transport them to an island after their sentence where they can live free with no temptation

    Never once do they ever consider the future victims....sorry makes my blood boil
    Sorry I was confusing who had first mentioned the island, I see it wasn't correlated to the original suggestion.
    It's a very challenging problem, recidivism is rife due to the entrenched nature of the perversion, so the usual 'Reform the criminal' stuff isn't really appropriate. Unpleasant and unhappy subject to consider
    Probably the most effective way of preventing paedophiles from reoffending is this approach.

    https://ecsa.lucyfaithfull.org/circles-support-and-accountability-0

    I don't expect the PB Blimps to support this evidence based approach.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,247

    IanB2 said:

    Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.

    Is the 'deal' not just PR? We can already use e-gates in some EU airports and it will continue to be up to individual countries.
    Quite. There is no new e gates deal.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,285
    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.

    A quote from where? I’d like to see who has actually said that.
    Google is always your friend, since it's in italics as a quote
    Seriously? I was always taught to cite my quotations.
    Not when they're from someone who lives in your brain and only pops up at times of severe stress.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,949

    IanB2 said:

    Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.

    I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
    As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)

    Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through

    But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,518
    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.

    A quote from where? I’d like to see who has actually said that.
    Google is always your friend, since it's in italics as a quote
    Hmm and the only voice they name for this attitude is Kevin O’Sullivan

    Editor of the irish times, born in ireland so has and irish passport

    The rest is some unnamed people have claimed bilge
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,949

    IanB2 said:

    Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.

    Is the 'deal' not just PR? We can already use e-gates in some EU airports and it will continue to be up to individual countries.
    Yes, there is literally zero "deal". Incredible
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,166

    IanB2 said:

    Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.

    I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
    I've been to the EU three times since Brexit. Arguably Brexit has added 10 minutes to getting through passport control. But that's time you'd just be waiting at baggage reclaim anyway. You get through the airport no less quickly. Its impact on getting into the country is zero.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,051
    edited May 21

    IanB2 said:

    Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.

    I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
    The only time it bothers me is getting back home. If there's a bit of a queue at the exit controls on the continent, you feel the need to get through. And when you're though, to the non-Schenghen part of the terminal, there is less choice of food & drink.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,545
    IOWC opted to return to the committee system, hoping it would enable councillors to work together across the groups and get away from the 'them against us' mentality that the cabinet system tends to produce.

    So far, the random selection of committee chairs and VCs, some pro-Tory and some pro-independent, suggests that very little is going to get done until the lot of them face the challenge from a Reform newbie in May next year.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,518
    Pagan2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.

    A quote from where? I’d like to see who has actually said that.
    Google is always your friend, since it's in italics as a quote
    Hmm and the only voice they name for this attitude is Kevin O’Sullivan

    Editor of the irish times, born in ireland so has and irish passport

    The rest is some unnamed people have claimed bilge
    Some lib dems have claimed I am more sexy than taylor swift and I am made of green cheese, to prove that I will quote hyufd.....see doesnt really convince does it
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 23,985
    TimS said:

    The treasury yield story is a classic case of Anglosphere social media convergence. People - Democrat commentators- breathlessly report a hike in US yields (they’re up a lot today because of US finance bill wrangling) and British readers assume it’s about the UK yield (they’re flat today because no fiscal news).

    It doesn’t help that we both call our finance ministry the Treasury.

    It also doesn't help that both nations Treasuries are led with utter incompetence.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,414
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.

    I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
    As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)

    Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through

    But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
    Starmer could supercharge EU travel for Brits in one simple move. Issue us all with Irish passports. Surely there’s some long forgotten provision of the GFA that allows this.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,545
    edited May 21
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.

    I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
    As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)

    Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through

    But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
    For sure. Pet owners being able to travel without forking out hundreds of £, and fishing small businesses being able to export more freely, is worth hugely more than removing a bit of extra queuing time at international airports.

    Besides, being widely travelled and actually learning something worthwhile from it aren't necessarily the same thing.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,051
    Cookie said:

    IanB2 said:

    Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.

    I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
    I've been to the EU three times since Brexit. Arguably Brexit has added 10 minutes to getting through passport control. But that's time you'd just be waiting at baggage reclaim anyway. You get through the airport no less quickly. Its impact on getting into the country is zero.
    Some of us hardly ever take checked baggage short haul. But I've had no long delays so far. Listening to other people in the queue whinging about Brexit has been the downside. But that's what noise-cancelling earphones are for.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,051
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.

    I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
    As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)

    Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through

    But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
    Starmer could supercharge EU travel for Brits in one simple move. Issue us all with Irish passports. Surely there’s some long forgotten provision of the GFA that allows this.
    Surprised the Irish didn't insistute a Golden Passport scheme. Could have been a moneyspinner.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,518
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.

    I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
    As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)

    Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through

    But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
    For sure. Pet owners being able to travel without forking out hundreds of £, and fishing small businesses being able to export more freely, is worth hugely more than a bit of extra queuing time at international airports.
    A lot of us think you shouldn't be taking your mutt abroad in the first place frankly
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,414
    Cookie said:

    IanB2 said:

    Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.

    I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
    I've been to the EU three times since Brexit. Arguably Brexit has added 10 minutes to getting through passport control. But that's time you'd just be waiting at baggage reclaim anyway. You get through the airport no less quickly. Its impact on getting into the country is zero.
    But not many people have checked luggage on short haul flights. It’s all up in the overhead lockers.

    Anyway, it’s a very first world problem. But it annoys remainers - it’s a sort of micro aggression performed on them by Boris - and that’s 48% of the voting population (or was in 2016). So if Starmer can get even one of those pesky 10% currently saying they’ll vote Green back on side then it’s worth doing.

    Starmer has spent most of the last few months trying to pander to Reform supporters so handing down a few tiny crumbs to half the population is at least something.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,095
    Quick pause to laugh at United.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,693
    Pagan2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.

    I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
    As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)

    Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through

    But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
    For sure. Pet owners being able to travel without forking out hundreds of £, and fishing small businesses being able to export more freely, is worth hugely more than a bit of extra queuing time at international airports.
    A lot of us think you shouldn't be taking your mutt abroad in the first place frankly
    How else can we judge the size of objects?

    For Scale is an unusual name for a dog, but he provides an essential service.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,949
    edited May 21
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.

    I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
    As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)

    Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through

    But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
    Starmer could supercharge EU travel for Brits in one simple move. Issue us all with Irish passports. Surely there’s some long forgotten provision of the GFA that allows this.
    What I honestly do not understand is how Starmer fucked this up. As well as everything else

    HMG signalled that a huge relaxation on e-gates was coming, as part of "the deal"

    In my slightly annoyed mind I had to admit - that's clever retail politiics by Labour. It's a trivial concession by the EU but it will actually be noticeable for the average Brit, as they fly abroad this summer. Suddenly the Union Jack is in the signs saying "EU and EEA this way" - it will make people feel warmer about the EU and also warmer about Starmer, even if he's given away a decade of fishing rights

    But, it turns out, he DIDN'T get that. He didn't get anything at all. The e-gates might be relaxed this autumn, by individual countries (too late for summer holidays) or they might not. The rules are status quo ante (Portugal already lets Brits use e-gates coz they are sensible not spiteful, and the rules already allow it)

    I mean, my God. How bad can you get at politics, to fuck that up? If you haven't got a deal, don't mention it. Instead Labour have made a big thing of it it, yet it won't happen, which means lots of irritated Britons in the summer who will now vaguely think even worse about this shitshow of a government
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,637
    edited May 21
    Cookie said:

    IanB2 said:

    Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.

    I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
    I've been to the EU three times since Brexit. Arguably Brexit has added 10 minutes to getting through passport control. But that's time you'd just be waiting at baggage reclaim anyway. You get through the airport no less quickly. Its impact on getting into the country is zero.
    Who the heck puts baggage in the hold on a trip to Europe?

    Whereas I normally get through quickly I had a 3 hour wait at Lisbon.

    If you land at an International airport rather than a tourist airport and it coincides with a plane from USA or China for instance you are stuffed.

    PS Just 3 times since Brexit?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,414
    Pagan2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.

    I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
    As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)

    Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through

    But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
    For sure. Pet owners being able to travel without forking out hundreds of £, and fishing small businesses being able to export more freely, is worth hugely more than a bit of extra queuing time at international airports.
    A lot of us think you shouldn't be taking your mutt abroad in the first place frankly
    But how on earth would we know the scale of things in photos?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,949
    edited May 21
    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    IanB2 said:

    Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.

    I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
    I've been to the EU three times since Brexit. Arguably Brexit has added 10 minutes to getting through passport control. But that's time you'd just be waiting at baggage reclaim anyway. You get through the airport no less quickly. Its impact on getting into the country is zero.
    But not many people have checked luggage on short haul flights. It’s all up in the overhead lockers.

    Anyway, it’s a very first world problem. But it annoys remainers - it’s a sort of micro aggression performed on them by Boris - and that’s 48% of the voting population (or was in 2016). So if Starmer can get even one of those pesky 10% currently saying they’ll vote Green back on side then it’s worth doing.

    Starmer has spent most of the last few months trying to pander to Reform supporters so handing down a few tiny crumbs to half the population is at least something.
    BUT HE HASN'T GOT ANY CONCESSION. How do you not get this? The EU completely fucked him over, and he fell for it, because he's a fat useless lying dork of a cretin
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,693
    dixiedean said:

    Quick pause to laugh at United.

    Spurs can score, but the can't keep a clean sheet. They have a positive goal difference extraordinary for their league position.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,518
    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.

    I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
    As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)

    Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through

    But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
    For sure. Pet owners being able to travel without forking out hundreds of £, and fishing small businesses being able to export more freely, is worth hugely more than a bit of extra queuing time at international airports.
    A lot of us think you shouldn't be taking your mutt abroad in the first place frankly
    How else can we judge the size of objects?

    For Scale is an unusual name for a dog, but he provides an essential service.
    I wasn't joking there, pets travelling with owners hasnt been a thing apart from a short period when pet passports were a thing in the late 90's. There is a reason the uk is rabies free etc is because we insisted on quarantining. When I had a dog if we went on holiday we either got a dog sitter or put him in kennels not insisted we should have the right to put the country at the risk of imported disease because...its ma dog
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