Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)
Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through
But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
Starmer could supercharge EU travel for Brits in one simple move. Issue us all with Irish passports. Surely there’s some long forgotten provision of the GFA that allows this.
What I honestly do not understand is how Starmer fucked this up. As well as everything else
HMG signalled that a huge relaxation on e-gates was coming, as part of "the deal"
In my slightly annoyed mind I had to admit- that's clever retail politiics by Labour. It's a trivial concession by the EU but it will actually be noticeable for the average Brit, as they fly abroad this summer. Suddenly the Union Jack is in the signs saying "EU and EEA this way" - it will make people feel warmer about the EU and also warmer about Starmer, even if he's given away a decade of fishing rights
But, it turns out, he DIDN'T get that. He didn't get anything at all. The e-gates might be relaxed this autumn, by individual countries (too late for summer holidays) or they might not. The rules are status quo ante (Portugal already lets Brits use egates coz they are sensible not spiteful, and the rules allow it)
I mean, my God. How bad can you get at politics, to fuck that up? If you haven't got a deal, don't mention it, Instead they have made a big thing of it it, yet it won't happen, which means lots of irritated Britons in the summer who will now vaguely think even worse about this shitshow of a government
I don't think anyone has noticed it. It's entirely immaterial compared with something like WFP, or the 800 migrants who came across on boats today.
If anything, people will get pissed about the e-gates over the summer and look it up on the BBC and find out the supposed change happens in October and the overall effect will be neutral, or even positive. A shitty Tory policy finally in the bin.
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
I've been to the EU three times since Brexit. Arguably Brexit has added 10 minutes to getting through passport control. But that's time you'd just be waiting at baggage reclaim anyway. You get through the airport no less quickly. Its impact on getting into the country is zero.
Who the heck puts baggage in the hold on a trip to Europe?
Whereas I normally get through quickly I had a 3 hour wait at Lisbon.
If you land at an International airport rather than a tourist airport and it coincides with a plane from USA or China for instance you are stuffed.
That’s generally the issue. Holiday airports are usually fine, it’s the landing at a hub just after a 787 from Beijing that’s the bummer.
This IOWC council meeting is throwing up a right mix of appointments for the year ahead.
Mostly, the non-Tory independents are coming out ahead of the Tories. But with enough pro-Tories getting through to make it very difficult to coherently administer the council.
What they don't know is that a by-election is very likely imminent.
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)
Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through
But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
Starmer could supercharge EU travel for Brits in one simple move. Issue us all with Irish passports. Surely there’s some long forgotten provision of the GFA that allows this.
What I honestly do not understand is how Starmer fucked this up. As well as everything else
HMG signalled that a huge relaxation on e-gates was coming, as part of "the deal"
In my slightly annoyed mind I had to admit- that's clever retail politiics by Labour. It's a trivial concession by the EU but it will actually be noticeable for the average Brit, as they fly abroad this summer. Suddenly the Union Jack is in the signs saying "EU and EEA this way" - it will make people feel warmer about the EU and also warmer about Starmer, even if he's given away a decade of fishing rights
But, it turns out, he DIDN'T get that. He didn't get anything at all. The e-gates might be relaxed this autumn, by individual countries (too late for summer holidays) or they might not. The rules are status quo ante (Portugal already lets Brits use egates coz they are sensible not spiteful, and the rules allow it)
I mean, my God. How bad can you get at politics, to fuck that up? If you haven't got a deal, don't mention it, Instead they have made a big thing of it it, yet it won't happen, which means lots of irritated Britons in the summer who will now vaguely think even worse about this shitshow of a government
I don't think anyone has noticed it. It's entirely immaterial compared with something like WFP, or the 800 migrants who came across on boats today.
If anything, people will get pissed about the e-gates over the summer and look it up on the BBC and find out the supposed change happens in October and the overall effect will be neutral, or even positive. A shitty Tory policy finally in the bin.
Media saying raise threshold to £15k or £17.5k etc.
But DWP does not know the income of every pensioner.
They surely aren't going to create the admin chaos that there is with Child Benefit with people getting it and having to declare it on their tax return so they can repay it.
I wonder if the plan is actually to restore Winter Fuel to everybody.
But Starmer will use it as a bargaining chip with backbenchers - ie "we will restore Winter Fuel but in return we will have to make other welfare cuts to offset cost".
Out of interest, has removing the WFA already proved to be less of a money saver than was hoped, has there an increase in those claiming pensioners credits since it was removed last year?
They will spend 3 x the savings on means testing, they are so thick it is unbelieveable. Why did they not just make it taxable.
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)
Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through
But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
Starmer could supercharge EU travel for Brits in one simple move. Issue us all with Irish passports. Surely there’s some long forgotten provision of the GFA that allows this.
What I honestly do not understand is how Starmer fucked this up. As well as everything else
HMG signalled that a huge relaxation on e-gates was coming, as part of "the deal"
In my slightly annoyed mind I had to admit- that's clever retail politiics by Labour. It's a trivial concession by the EU but it will actually be noticeable for the average Brit, as they fly abroad this summer. Suddenly the Union Jack is in the signs saying "EU and EEA this way" - it will make people feel warmer about the EU and also warmer about Starmer, even if he's given away a decade of fishing rights
But, it turns out, he DIDN'T get that. He didn't get anything at all. The e-gates might be relaxed this autumn, by individual countries (too late for summer holidays) or they might not. The rules are status quo ante (Portugal already lets Brits use egates coz they are sensible not spiteful, and the rules allow it)
I mean, my God. How bad can you get at politics, to fuck that up? If you haven't got a deal, don't mention it, Instead they have made a big thing of it it, yet it won't happen, which means lots of irritated Britons in the summer who will now vaguely think even worse about this shitshow of a government
I don't think anyone has noticed it. It's entirely immaterial compared with something like WFP, or the 800 migrants who came across on boats today.
If anything, people will get pissed about the e-gates over the summer and look it up on the BBC and find out the supposed change happens in October and the overall effect will be neutral, or even positive. A shitty Tory policy finally in the bin.
Perhaps we should make the boat people wait on the beach till egates are mandatory throughout the eu?
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
I've been to the EU three times since Brexit. Arguably Brexit has added 10 minutes to getting through passport control. But that's time you'd just be waiting at baggage reclaim anyway. You get through the airport no less quickly. Its impact on getting into the country is zero.
But not many people have checked luggage on short haul flights. It’s all up in the overhead lockers.
Anyway, it’s a very first world problem. But it annoys remainers - it’s a sort of micro aggression performed on them by Boris - and that’s 48% of the voting population (or was in 2016). So if Starmer can get even one of those pesky 10% currently saying they’ll vote Green back on side then it’s worth doing.
Starmer has spent most of the last few months trying to pander to Reform supporters so handing down a few tiny crumbs to half the population is at least something.
BUT HE HASN'T GOT ANY CONCESSION. How do you not get this? The EU completely fucked him over, and he fell for it, because he's a fat useless lying dork of a cretin
No, it looks pretty weak. Though I’m not convinced it’s quite as weak as your reading. I’m talking in principle as to why an e-gates deal is a decent political idea.
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)
Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through
But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
For sure. Pet owners being able to travel without forking out hundreds of £, and fishing small businesses being able to export more freely, is worth hugely more than a bit of extra queuing time at international airports.
A lot of us think you shouldn't be taking your mutt abroad in the first place frankly
I find it puzzling how much you want to interfere on other people's lives in areas that have impact on you.
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)
Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through
But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
Starmer could supercharge EU travel for Brits in one simple move. Issue us all with Irish passports. Surely there’s some long forgotten provision of the GFA that allows this.
What I honestly do not understand is how Starmer fucked this up. As well as everything else
HMG signalled that a huge relaxation on e-gates was coming, as part of "the deal"
In my slightly annoyed mind I had to admit- that's clever retail politiics by Labour. It's a trivial concession by the EU but it will actually be noticeable for the average Brit, as they fly abroad this summer. Suddenly the Union Jack is in the signs saying "EU and EEA this way" - it will make people feel warmer about the EU and also warmer about Starmer, even if he's given away a decade of fishing rights
But, it turns out, he DIDN'T get that. He didn't get anything at all. The e-gates might be relaxed this autumn, by individual countries (too late for summer holidays) or they might not. The rules are status quo ante (Portugal already lets Brits use egates coz they are sensible not spiteful, and the rules allow it)
I mean, my God. How bad can you get at politics, to fuck that up? If you haven't got a deal, don't mention it, Instead they have made a big thing of it it, yet it won't happen, which means lots of irritated Britons in the summer who will now vaguely think even worse about this shitshow of a government
I don't think anyone has noticed it. It's entirely immaterial compared with something like WFP, or the 800 migrants who came across on boats today.
If anything, people will get pissed about the e-gates over the summer and look it up on the BBC and find out the supposed change happens in October and the overall effect will be neutral, or even positive. A shitty Tory policy finally in the bin.
lol
Do you really hink the e-gates thing is a bigger issue than small boats?!
Your problem is you're forever trying the new big thing and lose all sense of proportion. Two weeks ago it was India/NICs, and I can barely remember it.
I really wish we had the reddit RemindMe! function so we could come and laugh you in August.
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)
Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through
But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
Starmer could supercharge EU travel for Brits in one simple move. Issue us all with Irish passports. Surely there’s some long forgotten provision of the GFA that allows this.
What I honestly do not understand is how Starmer fucked this up. As well as everything else
HMG signalled that a huge relaxation on e-gates was coming, as part of "the deal"
In my slightly annoyed mind I had to admit - that's clever retail politiics by Labour. It's a trivial concession by the EU but it will actually be noticeable for the average Brit, as they fly abroad this summer. Suddenly the Union Jack is in the signs saying "EU and EEA this way" - it will make people feel warmer about the EU and also warmer about Starmer, even if he's given away a decade of fishing rights
But, it turns out, he DIDN'T get that. He didn't get anything at all. The e-gates might be relaxed this autumn, by individual countries (too late for summer holidays) or they might not. The rules are status quo ante (Portugal already lets Brits use e-gates coz they are sensible not spiteful, and the rules already allow it)
I mean, my God. How bad can you get at politics, to fuck that up? If you haven't got a deal, don't mention it. Instead Labour have made a big thing of it it, yet it won't happen, which means lots of irritated Britons in the summer who will now vaguely think even worse about this shitshow of a government
To a lesser extent, the same is true of SPS checks. Under WTO rules, they are not supposed to be used to impede imports from territories with similar regulatory standards. And we have the same regulatory standards as the EU.
We've now agreed to dynamic alignment, in the hope that this will stop EU countries doing something they weren't meant to be doing anyway. And paying undisclosed sums of money to achieve it. AND preventing the UK from ever retaliating with our own importing red tape, because we will play by the rules.
It's really quite grotesque. Starmer's entire Government is a sort of gaslighting psyop.
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)
Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through
But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
For sure. Pet owners being able to travel without forking out hundreds of £, and fishing small businesses being able to export more freely, is worth hugely more than a bit of extra queuing time at international airports.
A lot of us think you shouldn't be taking your mutt abroad in the first place frankly
I find it puzzling how much you want to interfere on other people's lives in areas that have impact on you.
You don't think a dog bringing rabies into the country would affect me?
The only person interfering in anyones life here is IanB2 by insisting on putting the whole country at risk potentially due to "its ma dog"
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)
Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through
But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
Starmer could supercharge EU travel for Brits in one simple move. Issue us all with Irish passports. Surely there’s some long forgotten provision of the GFA that allows this.
What I honestly do not understand is how Starmer fucked this up. As well as everything else
HMG signalled that a huge relaxation on e-gates was coming, as part of "the deal"
In my slightly annoyed mind I had to admit- that's clever retail politiics by Labour. It's a trivial concession by the EU but it will actually be noticeable for the average Brit, as they fly abroad this summer. Suddenly the Union Jack is in the signs saying "EU and EEA this way" - it will make people feel warmer about the EU and also warmer about Starmer, even if he's given away a decade of fishing rights
But, it turns out, he DIDN'T get that. He didn't get anything at all. The e-gates might be relaxed this autumn, by individual countries (too late for summer holidays) or they might not. The rules are status quo ante (Portugal already lets Brits use egates coz they are sensible not spiteful, and the rules allow it)
I mean, my God. How bad can you get at politics, to fuck that up? If you haven't got a deal, don't mention it, Instead they have made a big thing of it it, yet it won't happen, which means lots of irritated Britons in the summer who will now vaguely think even worse about this shitshow of a government
I don't think anyone has noticed it. It's entirely immaterial compared with something like WFP, or the 800 migrants who came across on boats today.
If anything, people will get pissed about the e-gates over the summer and look it up on the BBC and find out the supposed change happens in October and the overall effect will be neutral, or even positive. A shitty Tory policy finally in the bin.
Perhaps we should make the boat people wait on the beach till egates are mandatory throughout the eu?
Airports, ports and land borders are certainly easier to deal with than a body of water. For the first time in British history, I think the channel is a net negative.
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)
Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through
But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
Starmer could supercharge EU travel for Brits in one simple move. Issue us all with Irish passports. Surely there’s some long forgotten provision of the GFA that allows this.
What I honestly do not understand is how Starmer fucked this up. As well as everything else
HMG signalled that a huge relaxation on e-gates was coming, as part of "the deal"
In my slightly annoyed mind I had to admit- that's clever retail politiics by Labour. It's a trivial concession by the EU but it will actually be noticeable for the average Brit, as they fly abroad this summer. Suddenly the Union Jack is in the signs saying "EU and EEA this way" - it will make people feel warmer about the EU and also warmer about Starmer, even if he's given away a decade of fishing rights
But, it turns out, he DIDN'T get that. He didn't get anything at all. The e-gates might be relaxed this autumn, by individual countries (too late for summer holidays) or they might not. The rules are status quo ante (Portugal already lets Brits use egates coz they are sensible not spiteful, and the rules allow it)
I mean, my God. How bad can you get at politics, to fuck that up? If you haven't got a deal, don't mention it, Instead they have made a big thing of it it, yet it won't happen, which means lots of irritated Britons in the summer who will now vaguely think even worse about this shitshow of a government
I don't think anyone has noticed it. It's entirely immaterial compared with something like WFP, or the 800 migrants who came across on boats today.
If anything, people will get pissed about the e-gates over the summer and look it up on the BBC and find out the supposed change happens in October and the overall effect will be neutral, or even positive. A shitty Tory policy finally in the bin.
Perhaps we should make the boat people wait on the beach till egates are mandatory throughout the eu?
Airports, ports and land borders are certainly easier to deal with than a body of water. For the first time in British history, I think the channel is a net negative.
They really aren't you do know land borders are inherently porous ask the irish on both sides
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
I've been to the EU three times since Brexit. Arguably Brexit has added 10 minutes to getting through passport control. But that's time you'd just be waiting at baggage reclaim anyway. You get through the airport no less quickly. Its impact on getting into the country is zero.
But not many people have checked luggage on short haul flights. It’s all up in the overhead lockers.
Anyway, it’s a very first world problem. But it annoys remainers - it’s a sort of micro aggression performed on them by Boris - and that’s 48% of the voting population (or was in 2016). So if Starmer can get even one of those pesky 10% currently saying they’ll vote Green back on side then it’s worth doing.
Starmer has spent most of the last few months trying to pander to Reform supporters so handing down a few tiny crumbs to half the population is at least something.
BUT HE HASN'T GOT ANY CONCESSION. How do you not get this? The EU completely fucked him over, and he fell for it, because he's a fat useless lying dork of a cretin
Remainers will lap up any deal, though- regardless of what it is.
He knows this.
He could offer to fellate Donald Tusk whilst being horsewhipped by Ursula von der Leyen in latex, and they'd applaud.
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)
Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through
But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
Starmer could supercharge EU travel for Brits in one simple move. Issue us all with Irish passports. Surely there’s some long forgotten provision of the GFA that allows this.
What I honestly do not understand is how Starmer fucked this up. As well as everything else
HMG signalled that a huge relaxation on e-gates was coming, as part of "the deal"
In my slightly annoyed mind I had to admit- that's clever retail politiics by Labour. It's a trivial concession by the EU but it will actually be noticeable for the average Brit, as they fly abroad this summer. Suddenly the Union Jack is in the signs saying "EU and EEA this way" - it will make people feel warmer about the EU and also warmer about Starmer, even if he's given away a decade of fishing rights
But, it turns out, he DIDN'T get that. He didn't get anything at all. The e-gates might be relaxed this autumn, by individual countries (too late for summer holidays) or they might not. The rules are status quo ante (Portugal already lets Brits use egates coz they are sensible not spiteful, and the rules allow it)
I mean, my God. How bad can you get at politics, to fuck that up? If you haven't got a deal, don't mention it, Instead they have made a big thing of it it, yet it won't happen, which means lots of irritated Britons in the summer who will now vaguely think even worse about this shitshow of a government
I don't think anyone has noticed it. It's entirely immaterial compared with something like WFP, or the 800 migrants who came across on boats today.
If anything, people will get pissed about the e-gates over the summer and look it up on the BBC and find out the supposed change happens in October and the overall effect will be neutral, or even positive. A shitty Tory policy finally in the bin.
lol
Do you really hink the e-gates thing is a bigger issue than small boats?!
Your problem is you're forever trying the new big thing and lose all sense of proportion. Two weeks ago it was India/NICs, and I can barely remember it.
I really wish we had the reddit RemindMe! function so we could come and laugh you in August.
It all adds up. We just need to build an incremental fury and contempt for Labour, then we get PM Nige
Every error counts, every fumbled fuck up of a policy by Labour. And they do provide a whole shagload of material
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)
Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through
But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
Starmer could supercharge EU travel for Brits in one simple move. Issue us all with Irish passports. Surely there’s some long forgotten provision of the GFA that allows this.
What I honestly do not understand is how Starmer fucked this up. As well as everything else
HMG signalled that a huge relaxation on e-gates was coming, as part of "the deal"
In my slightly annoyed mind I had to admit - that's clever retail politiics by Labour. It's a trivial concession by the EU but it will actually be noticeable for the average Brit, as they fly abroad this summer. Suddenly the Union Jack is in the signs saying "EU and EEA this way" - it will make people feel warmer about the EU and also warmer about Starmer, even if he's given away a decade of fishing rights
But, it turns out, he DIDN'T get that. He didn't get anything at all. The e-gates might be relaxed this autumn, by individual countries (too late for summer holidays) or they might not. The rules are status quo ante (Portugal already lets Brits use e-gates coz they are sensible not spiteful, and the rules already allow it)
I mean, my God. How bad can you get at politics, to fuck that up? If you haven't got a deal, don't mention it. Instead Labour have made a big thing of it it, yet it won't happen, which means lots of irritated Britons in the summer who will now vaguely think even worse about this shitshow of a government
He'll have to give more concessions to get e-gates, along with anything else.
He's totally fallen for the EU tactic of sequencing.
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)
Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through
But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
Starmer could supercharge EU travel for Brits in one simple move. Issue us all with Irish passports. Surely there’s some long forgotten provision of the GFA that allows this.
What I honestly do not understand is how Starmer fucked this up. As well as everything else
HMG signalled that a huge relaxation on e-gates was coming, as part of "the deal"
In my slightly annoyed mind I had to admit- that's clever retail politiics by Labour. It's a trivial concession by the EU but it will actually be noticeable for the average Brit, as they fly abroad this summer. Suddenly the Union Jack is in the signs saying "EU and EEA this way" - it will make people feel warmer about the EU and also warmer about Starmer, even if he's given away a decade of fishing rights
But, it turns out, he DIDN'T get that. He didn't get anything at all. The e-gates might be relaxed this autumn, by individual countries (too late for summer holidays) or they might not. The rules are status quo ante (Portugal already lets Brits use egates coz they are sensible not spiteful, and the rules allow it)
I mean, my God. How bad can you get at politics, to fuck that up? If you haven't got a deal, don't mention it, Instead they have made a big thing of it it, yet it won't happen, which means lots of irritated Britons in the summer who will now vaguely think even worse about this shitshow of a government
I don't think anyone has noticed it. It's entirely immaterial compared with something like WFP, or the 800 migrants who came across on boats today.
If anything, people will get pissed about the e-gates over the summer and look it up on the BBC and find out the supposed change happens in October and the overall effect will be neutral, or even positive. A shitty Tory policy finally in the bin.
Perhaps we should make the boat people wait on the beach till egates are mandatory throughout the eu?
Airports, ports and land borders are certainly easier to deal with than a body of water. For the first time in British history, I think the channel is a net negative.
That's not really true is it? A land border is considerably harder to police - no boat needed and those coming in are not limited to any particular landing places.
Nothing wrong with the sea, it's the dipshits policing it that are the issue.
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
I've been to the EU three times since Brexit. Arguably Brexit has added 10 minutes to getting through passport control. But that's time you'd just be waiting at baggage reclaim anyway. You get through the airport no less quickly. Its impact on getting into the country is zero.
But not many people have checked luggage on short haul flights. It’s all up in the overhead lockers.
Anyway, it’s a very first world problem. But it annoys remainers - it’s a sort of micro aggression performed on them by Boris - and that’s 48% of the voting population (or was in 2016). So if Starmer can get even one of those pesky 10% currently saying they’ll vote Green back on side then it’s worth doing.
Starmer has spent most of the last few months trying to pander to Reform supporters so handing down a few tiny crumbs to half the population is at least something.
Currently all UK arrivals must go to a manned border counter to have their passport checked and stamped. In some places (Portugal, some French airports) they can use e-gates but then go to a counter for stamping.
In future there will be no legal requirement for the UK arrival to present to a person. But this is only possible once physical stamping has been phased out, when the EU equivalent of ESTA is in place.
So
- Will be legally in force from October - Will be phased in over the following few months - Expected to be fully in place in all member states by next summer - Doesn’t mean we get to queue in the EU/EEA line where there aren’t egates though.
It was an easy deal to make given wet stamping was being phased out anyway. The main benefit of it is to remove any ambiguity about UK nationals having the right to e-gates.
Currently all UK arrivals must go to a manned border counter to have their passport checked and stamped. In some places (Portugal, some French airports) they can use e-gates but then go to a counter for stamping.
In future there will be no legal requirement for the UK arrival to present to a person. But this is only possible once physical stamping has been phased out, when the EU equivalent of ESTA is in place.
So
- Will be legally in force from October - Will be phased in over the following few months - Expected to be fully in place in all member states by next summer - Doesn’t mean we get to queue in the EU/EEA line where there aren’t egates though.
It was an easy deal to make given wet stamping was being phased out anyway. The main benefit of it is to remove any ambiguity about UK nationals having the right to e-gates.
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)
Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through
But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
For sure. Pet owners being able to travel without forking out hundreds of £, and fishing small businesses being able to export more freely, is worth hugely more than a bit of extra queuing time at international airports.
A lot of us think you shouldn't be taking your mutt abroad in the first place frankly
I find it puzzling how much you want to interfere on other people's lives in areas that have impact on you.
You don't think a dog bringing rabies into the country would affect me?
The only person interfering in anyones life here is IanB2 by insisting on putting the whole country at risk potentially due to "its ma dog"
How many times has a dog brought rabies into the country since pet passports?
Seriously, what do you think the chances of you catching rabies off a dog brought in via the pet passport scheme?
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
I've been to the EU three times since Brexit. Arguably Brexit has added 10 minutes to getting through passport control. But that's time you'd just be waiting at baggage reclaim anyway. You get through the airport no less quickly. Its impact on getting into the country is zero.
But not many people have checked luggage on short haul flights. It’s all up in the overhead lockers.
Anyway, it’s a very first world problem. But it annoys remainers - it’s a sort of micro aggression performed on them by Boris - and that’s 48% of the voting population (or was in 2016). So if Starmer can get even one of those pesky 10% currently saying they’ll vote Green back on side then it’s worth doing.
Starmer has spent most of the last few months trying to pander to Reform supporters so handing down a few tiny crumbs to half the population is at least something.
BUT HE HASN'T GOT ANY CONCESSION. How do you not get this? The EU completely fucked him over, and he fell for it, because he's a fat useless lying dork of a cretin
No, it looks pretty weak. Though I’m not convinced it’s quite as weak as your reading. I’m talking in principle as to why an e-gates deal is a decent political idea.
It was indeed a good idea: classic showman politics - looks good, actually means little, covers up other errors. Also a really tiny concession by the EU, were they so minded
Somehow, Starmer failed to get it?? Despite the promises? He is stupefyingly bad at this
Firstly, who are the people who want to join the EU but don't want to join the Customs Union or Single Market?
Secondly, agreeing that Brexit has been a failure is different from thinking it was a bad idea. It was a good idea, poorly executed by the Tories. Labour are now attempting to turn the crap Tory version of Brexit into a positive Labour version of Brexit.
(I appreciate that some will thing that there is no such thing as a good version of Brexit; here we will differ.)
I'm baffled by the idea that "Brexit has been a failure". Brexit simply meant leaving the EU, no longer paying money into the EU, no longer having a say in how the EU evolves and so on. That has been completed successfully. People believe it has been a failure because they feel that they are worse off now than before Brexit. The trouble is we have two ginormous confounders - Covid and a major war in Europe that mask the effects of Brexit. Too often this is not accounted for. Too often the negative of Brexit seems to devolve to "I had to queue at the airport while others just breezed through".
If the only reason for voting for Brexit was that you believed it would be economically in Britain's interest to do so then you may proclaim it a failure. But that was never the case.
It's not an easy thing to assess. At the price of a smaller economy (duly delivered) there was meant to be the intangible benefit of people feeling more sovereign and in control. This does not seem to have transpired. They're as grumpy as ever. But it could be an improved type of grumpiness now we're outside the EU. A grumpiness leavened by a sense of freedom and autonomy. If so, and you feel this outweighs the economic hit, you can argue Brexit has been a success.
We dont however have a smaller economy gdp has grown year on year by about the same as it did when we were in the EU. This idea we lost 4 percent gdp assumes we would have grown at a rate faster than we ever did in the EU....its a prediction of what may have happened from a europhillic organistation
You can never prove the impact because there's no counterfactual - but that leaving the EU was economically damaging (since it introduced a load of friction into trade/commerce between us and our single largest counterparty) is about as close to a fact as you can get in these choppy waters. The vast majority of informed opinion (which excludes both you and I) says so and the vast majority of informed opinion on anything is usually right.
You're assuming that ever easier trade with a group the UK has a massive trade deficit with is always a good thing.
I'm not assuming anything. I just don't feel empowered to go against the overwhelming informed consensus on Brexit being a hit to the UK economy.
But as I say, there is hopefully the intangible benefit of people feeling more sovereign. I don't, I must admit, but perhaps those who voted Leave do.
Do PB Leavers feel more sovereign?
We are more sovereign. That is an indisputable fact. I'm not sure what it is you think you should be 'feeling' that you aren't, but perhaps that's better discussed with a qualified professional.
Sovereign my arse, UK has to butt lick 10 x as much now, Billy no mates with no money more like. WTAF have we done as "more sovereign " since Brexit.
Currently all UK arrivals must go to a manned border counter to have their passport checked and stamped. In some places (Portugal, some French airports) they can use e-gates but then go to a counter for stamping.
In future there will be no legal requirement for the UK arrival to present to a person. But this is only possible once physical stamping has been phased out, when the EU equivalent of ESTA is in place.
So
- Will be legally in force from October - Will be phased in over the following few months - Expected to be fully in place in all member states by next summer - Doesn’t mean we get to queue in the EU/EEA line where there aren’t egates though.
It was an easy deal to make given wet stamping was being phased out anyway. The main benefit of it is to remove any ambiguity about UK nationals having the right to e-gates.
Did you leave out the part where its only advisory and no state has to comply ....oh yes you did
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
I've been to the EU three times since Brexit. Arguably Brexit has added 10 minutes to getting through passport control. But that's time you'd just be waiting at baggage reclaim anyway. You get through the airport no less quickly. Its impact on getting into the country is zero.
But not many people have checked luggage on short haul flights. It’s all up in the overhead lockers.
Anyway, it’s a very first world problem. But it annoys remainers - it’s a sort of micro aggression performed on them by Boris - and that’s 48% of the voting population (or was in 2016). So if Starmer can get even one of those pesky 10% currently saying they’ll vote Green back on side then it’s worth doing.
Starmer has spent most of the last few months trying to pander to Reform supporters so handing down a few tiny crumbs to half the population is at least something.
BUT HE HASN'T GOT ANY CONCESSION. How do you not get this? The EU completely fucked him over, and he fell for it, because he's a fat useless lying dork of a cretin
Remainers will lap up any deal, though- regardless of what it is.
He knows this.
He could offer to fellate Donald Tusk whilst being horsewhipped by Ursula von der Leyen in latex, and they'd applaud.
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
I've been to the EU three times since Brexit. Arguably Brexit has added 10 minutes to getting through passport control. But that's time you'd just be waiting at baggage reclaim anyway. You get through the airport no less quickly. Its impact on getting into the country is zero.
But not many people have checked luggage on short haul flights. It’s all up in the overhead lockers.
Anyway, it’s a very first world problem. But it annoys remainers - it’s a sort of micro aggression performed on them by Boris - and that’s 48% of the voting population (or was in 2016). So if Starmer can get even one of those pesky 10% currently saying they’ll vote Green back on side then it’s worth doing.
Starmer has spent most of the last few months trying to pander to Reform supporters so handing down a few tiny crumbs to half the population is at least something.
BUT HE HASN'T GOT ANY CONCESSION. How do you not get this? The EU completely fucked him over, and he fell for it, because he's a fat useless lying dork of a cretin
He may have given away massive swathes of our territorial waters to be relentlessly and catastrophically overfished again, but at least this time he didn't pay £12bn to do so.
So IOWC now has an extra half hour, and the next decision is to elect the Tory group leader as vice chair of some committee or other. Simply storing up more problems for the year ahead.
This IOWC council meeting is throwing up a right mix of appointments for the year ahead.
Mostly, the non-Tory independents are coming out ahead of the Tories. But with enough pro-Tories getting through to make it very difficult to coherently administer the council.
What they don't know is that a by-election is very likely imminent.
Ooh, that sounds exciting.
Keep us posted on how the by-election progresses in Ventnor North.
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)
Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through
But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
For sure. Pet owners being able to travel without forking out hundreds of £, and fishing small businesses being able to export more freely, is worth hugely more than a bit of extra queuing time at international airports.
A lot of us think you shouldn't be taking your mutt abroad in the first place frankly
I find it puzzling how much you want to interfere on other people's lives in areas that have impact on you.
You don't think a dog bringing rabies into the country would affect me?
The only person interfering in anyones life here is IanB2 by insisting on putting the whole country at risk potentially due to "its ma dog"
The dog is required to have a rabies vaccine. You are potentially safer because with passports you have removed the risk of people smuggling their pet through, which people did.. So you are personally actually safer.
Firstly, who are the people who want to join the EU but don't want to join the Customs Union or Single Market?
Secondly, agreeing that Brexit has been a failure is different from thinking it was a bad idea. It was a good idea, poorly executed by the Tories. Labour are now attempting to turn the crap Tory version of Brexit into a positive Labour version of Brexit.
(I appreciate that some will thing that there is no such thing as a good version of Brexit; here we will differ.)
I'm baffled by the idea that "Brexit has been a failure". Brexit simply meant leaving the EU, no longer paying money into the EU, no longer having a say in how the EU evolves and so on. That has been completed successfully. People believe it has been a failure because they feel that they are worse off now than before Brexit. The trouble is we have two ginormous confounders - Covid and a major war in Europe that mask the effects of Brexit. Too often this is not accounted for. Too often the negative of Brexit seems to devolve to "I had to queue at the airport while others just breezed through".
If the only reason for voting for Brexit was that you believed it would be economically in Britain's interest to do so then you may proclaim it a failure. But that was never the case.
It's not an easy thing to assess. At the price of a smaller economy (duly delivered) there was meant to be the intangible benefit of people feeling more sovereign and in control. This does not seem to have transpired. They're as grumpy as ever. But it could be an improved type of grumpiness now we're outside the EU. A grumpiness leavened by a sense of freedom and autonomy. If so, and you feel this outweighs the economic hit, you can argue Brexit has been a success.
We dont however have a smaller economy gdp has grown year on year by about the same as it did when we were in the EU. This idea we lost 4 percent gdp assumes we would have grown at a rate faster than we ever did in the EU....its a prediction of what may have happened from a europhillic organistation
You can never prove the impact because there's no counterfactual - but that leaving the EU was economically damaging (since it introduced a load of friction into trade/commerce between us and our single largest counterparty) is about as close to a fact as you can get in these choppy waters. The vast majority of informed opinion (which excludes both you and I) says so and the vast majority of informed opinion on anything is usually right.
You're assuming that ever easier trade with a group the UK has a massive trade deficit with is always a good thing.
I'm not assuming anything. I just don't feel empowered to go against the overwhelming informed consensus on Brexit being a hit to the UK economy.
But as I say, there is hopefully the intangible benefit of people feeling more sovereign. I don't, I must admit, but perhaps those who voted Leave do.
Do PB Leavers feel more sovereign?
We are more sovereign. That is an indisputable fact. I'm not sure what it is you think you should be 'feeling' that you aren't, but perhaps that's better discussed with a qualified professional.
Sovereign my arse, UK has to butt lick 10 x as much now, Billy no mates with no money more like. WTAF have we done as "more sovereign " since Brexit.
It has nothing to do with anything anyone has done. You can have legs but you can still sit on your bum if you decide to do so. Your decision not to use them doesn't mean they're not there.
Currently all UK arrivals must go to a manned border counter to have their passport checked and stamped. In some places (Portugal, some French airports) they can use e-gates but then go to a counter for stamping.
In future there will be no legal requirement for the UK arrival to present to a person. But this is only possible once physical stamping has been phased out, when the EU equivalent of ESTA is in place.
So
- Will be legally in force from October - Will be phased in over the following few months - Expected to be fully in place in all member states by next summer - Doesn’t mean we get to queue in the EU/EEA line where there aren’t egates though.
It was an easy deal to make given wet stamping was being phased out anyway. The main benefit of it is to remove any ambiguity about UK nationals having the right to e-gates.
We have no right to e-gates. They can still say No
We will still be in the queue with Yanks and Chinese
There is no "deal", you clown-faced, knob-nosed dunce
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)
Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through
But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
Starmer could supercharge EU travel for Brits in one simple move. Issue us all with Irish passports. Surely there’s some long forgotten provision of the GFA that allows this.
What I honestly do not understand is how Starmer fucked this up. As well as everything else
HMG signalled that a huge relaxation on e-gates was coming, as part of "the deal"
In my slightly annoyed mind I had to admit- that's clever retail politiics by Labour. It's a trivial concession by the EU but it will actually be noticeable for the average Brit, as they fly abroad this summer. Suddenly the Union Jack is in the signs saying "EU and EEA this way" - it will make people feel warmer about the EU and also warmer about Starmer, even if he's given away a decade of fishing rights
But, it turns out, he DIDN'T get that. He didn't get anything at all. The e-gates might be relaxed this autumn, by individual countries (too late for summer holidays) or they might not. The rules are status quo ante (Portugal already lets Brits use egates coz they are sensible not spiteful, and the rules allow it)
I mean, my God. How bad can you get at politics, to fuck that up? If you haven't got a deal, don't mention it, Instead they have made a big thing of it it, yet it won't happen, which means lots of irritated Britons in the summer who will now vaguely think even worse about this shitshow of a government
I don't think anyone has noticed it. It's entirely immaterial compared with something like WFP, or the 800 migrants who came across on boats today.
If anything, people will get pissed about the e-gates over the summer and look it up on the BBC and find out the supposed change happens in October and the overall effect will be neutral, or even positive. A shitty Tory policy finally in the bin.
Perhaps we should make the boat people wait on the beach till egates are mandatory throughout the eu?
Airports, ports and land borders are certainly easier to deal with than a body of water. For the first time in British history, I think the channel is a net negative.
That's not really true is it? A land border is considerably harder to police - no boat needed and those coming in are not limited to any particular landing places.
Nothing wrong with the sea, it's the dipshits policing it that are the issue.
Ok - correction: It's easier to defend a land border without killing people than a body of water. Do a US and put a big fence up.
Now the IOWC is within five minutes of running out of time, and there's a debate about giving the council another half hour to sort out this mess.
Those of you overly exercised at preventing my dog sniffing the world are missing out on the real news unfolding in the Newport council chamber.
Because the Isle of wight makes the land that time forgot look modern?
... says the poster who won't use a smartphone.
I have a smartphone, not a luddite I just like it days gone by dont feel a need to be governed by it. If I am out they can leave a message and if I feel its important will get back to them when convenient. More surprised that anyone feels that the phone runs their life frankly. Pretty much no phone call or text is so important that it cant wait a couple of hours
Currently all UK arrivals must go to a manned border counter to have their passport checked and stamped. In some places (Portugal, some French airports) they can use e-gates but then go to a counter for stamping.
In future there will be no legal requirement for the UK arrival to present to a person. But this is only possible once physical stamping has been phased out, when the EU equivalent of ESTA is in place.
So
- Will be legally in force from October - Will be phased in over the following few months - Expected to be fully in place in all member states by next summer - Doesn’t mean we get to queue in the EU/EEA line where there aren’t egates though.
It was an easy deal to make given wet stamping was being phased out anyway. The main benefit of it is to remove any ambiguity about UK nationals having the right to e-gates.
That tragic fuck @IanB2 actually "Liked" this ludicrously inane post
So IOWC now has an extra half hour, and the next decision is to elect the Tory group leader as vice chair of some committee or other. Simply storing up more problems for the year ahead.
I think this is known as oversharing.
Why don't you just go and hit up the pubs in Newport instead? Or, you know, try and pick up girls? Failing that, have a wank?
So IOWC now has an extra half hour, and the next decision is to elect the Tory group leader as vice chair of some committee or other. Simply storing up more problems for the year ahead.
I think this is known as oversharing.
Why don't you just go and hit up the pubs in Newport instead? Or, you know, try and pick up girls? Failing that, have a wank?
There are no cheeky girls currently extant in the isle of wight
This IOWC council meeting is throwing up a right mix of appointments for the year ahead.
Mostly, the non-Tory independents are coming out ahead of the Tories. But with enough pro-Tories getting through to make it very difficult to coherently administer the council.
What they don't know is that a by-election is very likely imminent.
Ooh, that sounds exciting.
Keep us posted on how the by-election progresses in Ventnor North.
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)
Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through
But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
For sure. Pet owners being able to travel without forking out hundreds of £, and fishing small businesses being able to export more freely, is worth hugely more than a bit of extra queuing time at international airports.
A lot of us think you shouldn't be taking your mutt abroad in the first place frankly
I find it puzzling how much you want to interfere on other people's lives in areas that have impact on you.
You don't think a dog bringing rabies into the country would affect me?
The only person interfering in anyones life here is IanB2 by insisting on putting the whole country at risk potentially due to "its ma dog"
How many times has a dog brought rabies into the country since pet passports?
Seriously, what do you think the chances of you catching rabies off a dog brought in via the pet passport scheme?
There was a single European case of rabies in 2023, the first since 2019. The continent is effectively rabies free. Arguably the pet passport rules could be significantly relaxed with no risk.
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
I've been to the EU three times since Brexit. Arguably Brexit has added 10 minutes to getting through passport control. But that's time you'd just be waiting at baggage reclaim anyway. You get through the airport no less quickly. Its impact on getting into the country is zero.
But not many people have checked luggage on short haul flights. It’s all up in the overhead lockers.
Anyway, it’s a very first world problem. But it annoys remainers - it’s a sort of micro aggression performed on them by Boris - and that’s 48% of the voting population (or was in 2016). So if Starmer can get even one of those pesky 10% currently saying they’ll vote Green back on side then it’s worth doing.
Starmer has spent most of the last few months trying to pander to Reform supporters so handing down a few tiny crumbs to half the population is at least something.
I almost always check in my luggage.
I suppose family holidays are different. Last time I checked luggage was a family holiday in 2022.
I take cabin baggage for all work travel, including long haul. Also if holidaying with friends, like to Senegal last year. I’d probably check luggage if I were going away with work for a fortnight but that’s not happened in 30 years of career.
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)
Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through
But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
Starmer could supercharge EU travel for Brits in one simple move. Issue us all with Irish passports. Surely there’s some long forgotten provision of the GFA that allows this.
What I honestly do not understand is how Starmer fucked this up. As well as everything else
HMG signalled that a huge relaxation on e-gates was coming, as part of "the deal"
In my slightly annoyed mind I had to admit- that's clever retail politiics by Labour. It's a trivial concession by the EU but it will actually be noticeable for the average Brit, as they fly abroad this summer. Suddenly the Union Jack is in the signs saying "EU and EEA this way" - it will make people feel warmer about the EU and also warmer about Starmer, even if he's given away a decade of fishing rights
But, it turns out, he DIDN'T get that. He didn't get anything at all. The e-gates might be relaxed this autumn, by individual countries (too late for summer holidays) or they might not. The rules are status quo ante (Portugal already lets Brits use egates coz they are sensible not spiteful, and the rules allow it)
I mean, my God. How bad can you get at politics, to fuck that up? If you haven't got a deal, don't mention it, Instead they have made a big thing of it it, yet it won't happen, which means lots of irritated Britons in the summer who will now vaguely think even worse about this shitshow of a government
I don't think anyone has noticed it. It's entirely immaterial compared with something like WFP, or the 800 migrants who came across on boats today.
If anything, people will get pissed about the e-gates over the summer and look it up on the BBC and find out the supposed change happens in October and the overall effect will be neutral, or even positive. A shitty Tory policy finally in the bin.
Perhaps we should make the boat people wait on the beach till egates are mandatory throughout the eu?
Airports, ports and land borders are certainly easier to deal with than a body of water. For the first time in British history, I think the channel is a net negative.
That's not really true is it? A land border is considerably harder to police - no boat needed and those coming in are not limited to any particular landing places.
Nothing wrong with the sea, it's the dipshits policing it that are the issue.
Ok - correction: It's easier to defend a land border without killing people than a body of water. Do a US and put a big fence up.
A fence still needs watchtowers and barbed wire - it needs danger, people can't just be allowed to clamber over it.
So IOWC now has an extra half hour, and the next decision is to elect the Tory group leader as vice chair of some committee or other. Simply storing up more problems for the year ahead.
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)
Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through
But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
For sure. Pet owners being able to travel without forking out hundreds of £, and fishing small businesses being able to export more freely, is worth hugely more than a bit of extra queuing time at international airports.
A lot of us think you shouldn't be taking your mutt abroad in the first place frankly
I find it puzzling how much you want to interfere on other people's lives in areas that have impact on you.
You don't think a dog bringing rabies into the country would affect me?
The only person interfering in anyones life here is IanB2 by insisting on putting the whole country at risk potentially due to "its ma dog"
How many times has a dog brought rabies into the country since pet passports?
Seriously, what do you think the chances of you catching rabies off a dog brought in via the pet passport scheme?
There was a single European case of rabies in 2023, the first since 2019. The continent is effectively rabies free. Arguably the pet passport rules could be significantly relaxed with no risk.
Rabies is but one example all sorts of things could come come over with an animal. Simple fact is there is no reason to take a dog abroad....it doesnt no if its in switzerland or the scottish highlands. Its a dog its cartographical skills are nil.
Either kennel it, house sit it or take a holiday in the uk....taking a dog abroad is a want not a need and yes could well bring shit back with it. (Yes I know so could humans which is why they shouldnt be allowed back in either )
Now the IOWC is within five minutes of running out of time, and there's a debate about giving the council another half hour to sort out this mess.
Those of you overly exercised at preventing my dog sniffing the world are missing out on the real news unfolding in the Newport council chamber.
Because the Isle of wight makes the land that time forgot look modern?
... says the poster who won't use a smartphone.
I have a smartphone, not a luddite I just like it days gone by dont feel a need to be governed by it. If I am out they can leave a message and if I feel its important will get back to them when convenient. More surprised that anyone feels that the phone runs their life frankly. Pretty much no phone call or text is so important that it cant wait a couple of hours
I don’t like the phrase 'smartphone'. Though I admit that 'cleverphone' needs work.
Currently all UK arrivals must go to a manned border counter to have their passport checked and stamped. In some places (Portugal, some French airports) they can use e-gates but then go to a counter for stamping.
In future there will be no legal requirement for the UK arrival to present to a person. But this is only possible once physical stamping has been phased out, when the EU equivalent of ESTA is in place.
So
- Will be legally in force from October - Will be phased in over the following few months - Expected to be fully in place in all member states by next summer - Doesn’t mean we get to queue in the EU/EEA line where there aren’t egates though.
It was an easy deal to make given wet stamping was being phased out anyway. The main benefit of it is to remove any ambiguity about UK nationals having the right to e-gates.
Did you leave out the part where its only advisory and no state has to comply ....oh yes you did
E-gates aren’t mandatory even for EU citizens.
But I’m not here to propagandise for Starmer. It’s a pretty thin agreement, but actually it would have been legally virtually impossible to have a fatter one, short of joining the EEA.
This IOWC council meeting is throwing up a right mix of appointments for the year ahead.
Mostly, the non-Tory independents are coming out ahead of the Tories. But with enough pro-Tories getting through to make it very difficult to coherently administer the council.
What they don't know is that a by-election is very likely imminent.
Ooh, that sounds exciting.
Keep us posted on how the by-election progresses in Ventnor North.
All the council members bob about in barrels in Cowes harbour and are fished out by locals like a big game of hook the duck - jobs issued on order they are hooked.
Firstly, who are the people who want to join the EU but don't want to join the Customs Union or Single Market?
Secondly, agreeing that Brexit has been a failure is different from thinking it was a bad idea. It was a good idea, poorly executed by the Tories. Labour are now attempting to turn the crap Tory version of Brexit into a positive Labour version of Brexit.
(I appreciate that some will thing that there is no such thing as a good version of Brexit; here we will differ.)
I'm baffled by the idea that "Brexit has been a failure". Brexit simply meant leaving the EU, no longer paying money into the EU, no longer having a say in how the EU evolves and so on. That has been completed successfully. People believe it has been a failure because they feel that they are worse off now than before Brexit. The trouble is we have two ginormous confounders - Covid and a major war in Europe that mask the effects of Brexit. Too often this is not accounted for. Too often the negative of Brexit seems to devolve to "I had to queue at the airport while others just breezed through".
If the only reason for voting for Brexit was that you believed it would be economically in Britain's interest to do so then you may proclaim it a failure. But that was never the case.
It's not an easy thing to assess. At the price of a smaller economy (duly delivered) there was meant to be the intangible benefit of people feeling more sovereign and in control. This does not seem to have transpired. They're as grumpy as ever. But it could be an improved type of grumpiness now we're outside the EU. A grumpiness leavened by a sense of freedom and autonomy. If so, and you feel this outweighs the economic hit, you can argue Brexit has been a success.
We dont however have a smaller economy gdp has grown year on year by about the same as it did when we were in the EU. This idea we lost 4 percent gdp assumes we would have grown at a rate faster than we ever did in the EU....its a prediction of what may have happened from a europhillic organistation
You can never prove the impact because there's no counterfactual - but that leaving the EU was economically damaging (since it introduced a load of friction into trade/commerce between us and our single largest counterparty) is about as close to a fact as you can get in these choppy waters. The vast majority of informed opinion (which excludes both you and I) says so and the vast majority of informed opinion on anything is usually right.
You're assuming that ever easier trade with a group the UK has a massive trade deficit with is always a good thing.
I'm not assuming anything. I just don't feel empowered to go against the overwhelming informed consensus on Brexit being a hit to the UK economy.
But as I say, there is hopefully the intangible benefit of people feeling more sovereign. I don't, I must admit, but perhaps those who voted Leave do.
Do PB Leavers feel more sovereign?
We are more sovereign. That is an indisputable fact. I'm not sure what it is you think you should be 'feeling' that you aren't, but perhaps that's better discussed with a qualified professional.
Sovereign my arse, UK has to butt lick 10 x as much now, Billy no mates with no money more like. WTAF have we done as "more sovereign " since Brexit.
It has nothing to do with anything anyone has done. You can have legs but you can still sit on your bum if you decide to do so. Your decision not to use them doesn't mean they're not there.
Fine words butter no parsnips. Give up billions and impoverish people but hey you are sovereign , eat it up.
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
I've been to the EU three times since Brexit. Arguably Brexit has added 10 minutes to getting through passport control. But that's time you'd just be waiting at baggage reclaim anyway. You get through the airport no less quickly. Its impact on getting into the country is zero.
Who the heck puts baggage in the hold on a trip to Europe?
Whereas I normally get through quickly I had a 3 hour wait at Lisbon.
If you land at an International airport rather than a tourist airport and it coincides with a plane from USA or China for instance you are stuffed.
PS Just 3 times since Brexit?
You think people going on a fortnight's holiday only take hand luggage?
Currently all UK arrivals must go to a manned border counter to have their passport checked and stamped. In some places (Portugal, some French airports) they can use e-gates but then go to a counter for stamping.
In future there will be no legal requirement for the UK arrival to present to a person. But this is only possible once physical stamping has been phased out, when the EU equivalent of ESTA is in place.
So
- Will be legally in force from October - Will be phased in over the following few months - Expected to be fully in place in all member states by next summer - Doesn’t mean we get to queue in the EU/EEA line where there aren’t egates though.
It was an easy deal to make given wet stamping was being phased out anyway. The main benefit of it is to remove any ambiguity about UK nationals having the right to e-gates.
That tragic fuck @IanB2 actually "Liked" this ludicrously inane post
My god, they are sad
He's going through the thread flagging both of us now.
Lol.
Then again, I quite like the IoW, Ventnor and the fresh fish it serves, so it's not all bad.
Just wish we had more of the dog and less of the dribblings.
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)
Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through
But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
Starmer could supercharge EU travel for Brits in one simple move. Issue us all with Irish passports. Surely there’s some long forgotten provision of the GFA that allows this.
What I honestly do not understand is how Starmer fucked this up. As well as everything else
HMG signalled that a huge relaxation on e-gates was coming, as part of "the deal"
In my slightly annoyed mind I had to admit- that's clever retail politiics by Labour. It's a trivial concession by the EU but it will actually be noticeable for the average Brit, as they fly abroad this summer. Suddenly the Union Jack is in the signs saying "EU and EEA this way" - it will make people feel warmer about the EU and also warmer about Starmer, even if he's given away a decade of fishing rights
But, it turns out, he DIDN'T get that. He didn't get anything at all. The e-gates might be relaxed this autumn, by individual countries (too late for summer holidays) or they might not. The rules are status quo ante (Portugal already lets Brits use egates coz they are sensible not spiteful, and the rules allow it)
I mean, my God. How bad can you get at politics, to fuck that up? If you haven't got a deal, don't mention it, Instead they have made a big thing of it it, yet it won't happen, which means lots of irritated Britons in the summer who will now vaguely think even worse about this shitshow of a government
I don't think anyone has noticed it. It's entirely immaterial compared with something like WFP, or the 800 migrants who came across on boats today.
If anything, people will get pissed about the e-gates over the summer and look it up on the BBC and find out the supposed change happens in October and the overall effect will be neutral, or even positive. A shitty Tory policy finally in the bin.
Perhaps we should make the boat people wait on the beach till egates are mandatory throughout the eu?
Airports, ports and land borders are certainly easier to deal with than a body of water. For the first time in British history, I think the channel is a net negative.
That's not really true is it? A land border is considerably harder to police - no boat needed and those coming in are not limited to any particular landing places.
Nothing wrong with the sea, it's the dipshits policing it that are the issue.
Ok - correction: It's easier to defend a land border without killing people than a body of water. Do a US and put a big fence up.
A fence still needs watchtowers and barbed wire - it needs danger, people can't just be allowed to clamber over it.
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)
Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through
But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
For sure. Pet owners being able to travel without forking out hundreds of £, and fishing small businesses being able to export more freely, is worth hugely more than a bit of extra queuing time at international airports.
A lot of us think you shouldn't be taking your mutt abroad in the first place frankly
I find it puzzling how much you want to interfere on other people's lives in areas that have impact on you.
You don't think a dog bringing rabies into the country would affect me?
The only person interfering in anyones life here is IanB2 by insisting on putting the whole country at risk potentially due to "its ma dog"
How many times has a dog brought rabies into the country since pet passports?
Seriously, what do you think the chances of you catching rabies off a dog brought in via the pet passport scheme?
There was a single European case of rabies in 2023, the first since 2019. The continent is effectively rabies free. Arguably the pet passport rules could be significantly relaxed with no risk.
Rabies is but one example all sorts of things could come come over with an animal. Simple fact is there is no reason to take a dog abroad....it doesnt no if its in switzerland or the scottish highlands. Its a dog its cartographical skills are nil.
Either kennel it, house sit it or take a holiday in the uk....taking a dog abroad is a want not a need and yes could well bring shit back with it. (Yes I know so could humans which is why they shouldnt be allowed back in either )
What about bats? They're quite well known for carrying various viruses that kills humans. Ahem.
Currently all UK arrivals must go to a manned border counter to have their passport checked and stamped. In some places (Portugal, some French airports) they can use e-gates but then go to a counter for stamping.
In future there will be no legal requirement for the UK arrival to present to a person. But this is only possible once physical stamping has been phased out, when the EU equivalent of ESTA is in place.
So
- Will be legally in force from October - Will be phased in over the following few months - Expected to be fully in place in all member states by next summer - Doesn’t mean we get to queue in the EU/EEA line where there aren’t egates though.
It was an easy deal to make given wet stamping was being phased out anyway. The main benefit of it is to remove any ambiguity about UK nationals having the right to e-gates.
That tragic fuck @IanB2 actually "Liked" this ludicrously inane post
My god, they are sad
He's going through the thread flagging both of us now.
Lol.
Then again, I quite like the IoW, Ventnor and the fresh fish it serves, so it's not all bad.
Just wish we had more of the dog and less of the dribblings.
Currently all UK arrivals must go to a manned border counter to have their passport checked and stamped. In some places (Portugal, some French airports) they can use e-gates but then go to a counter for stamping.
In future there will be no legal requirement for the UK arrival to present to a person. But this is only possible once physical stamping has been phased out, when the EU equivalent of ESTA is in place.
So
- Will be legally in force from October - Will be phased in over the following few months - Expected to be fully in place in all member states by next summer - Doesn’t mean we get to queue in the EU/EEA line where there aren’t egates though.
It was an easy deal to make given wet stamping was being phased out anyway. The main benefit of it is to remove any ambiguity about UK nationals having the right to e-gates.
Did you leave out the part where its only advisory and no state has to comply ....oh yes you did
E-gates aren’t mandatory even for EU citizens.
But I’m not here to propagandise for Starmer. It’s a pretty thin agreement, but actually it would have been legally virtually impossible to have a fatter one, short of joining the EEA.
By that I meant even if they have egates not mandatory to allow uk users to use them. By eu law however they have to allow eu citizens to if their own can
Firstly, who are the people who want to join the EU but don't want to join the Customs Union or Single Market?
Secondly, agreeing that Brexit has been a failure is different from thinking it was a bad idea. It was a good idea, poorly executed by the Tories. Labour are now attempting to turn the crap Tory version of Brexit into a positive Labour version of Brexit.
(I appreciate that some will thing that there is no such thing as a good version of Brexit; here we will differ.)
I'm baffled by the idea that "Brexit has been a failure". Brexit simply meant leaving the EU, no longer paying money into the EU, no longer having a say in how the EU evolves and so on. That has been completed successfully. People believe it has been a failure because they feel that they are worse off now than before Brexit. The trouble is we have two ginormous confounders - Covid and a major war in Europe that mask the effects of Brexit. Too often this is not accounted for. Too often the negative of Brexit seems to devolve to "I had to queue at the airport while others just breezed through".
If the only reason for voting for Brexit was that you believed it would be economically in Britain's interest to do so then you may proclaim it a failure. But that was never the case.
It's not an easy thing to assess. At the price of a smaller economy (duly delivered) there was meant to be the intangible benefit of people feeling more sovereign and in control. This does not seem to have transpired. They're as grumpy as ever. But it could be an improved type of grumpiness now we're outside the EU. A grumpiness leavened by a sense of freedom and autonomy. If so, and you feel this outweighs the economic hit, you can argue Brexit has been a success.
We dont however have a smaller economy gdp has grown year on year by about the same as it did when we were in the EU. This idea we lost 4 percent gdp assumes we would have grown at a rate faster than we ever did in the EU....its a prediction of what may have happened from a europhillic organistation
You can never prove the impact because there's no counterfactual - but that leaving the EU was economically damaging (since it introduced a load of friction into trade/commerce between us and our single largest counterparty) is about as close to a fact as you can get in these choppy waters. The vast majority of informed opinion (which excludes both you and I) says so and the vast majority of informed opinion on anything is usually right.
You're assuming that ever easier trade with a group the UK has a massive trade deficit with is always a good thing.
I'm not assuming anything. I just don't feel empowered to go against the overwhelming informed consensus on Brexit being a hit to the UK economy.
But as I say, there is hopefully the intangible benefit of people feeling more sovereign. I don't, I must admit, but perhaps those who voted Leave do.
Do PB Leavers feel more sovereign?
We are more sovereign. That is an indisputable fact. I'm not sure what it is you think you should be 'feeling' that you aren't, but perhaps that's better discussed with a qualified professional.
Sovereign my arse, UK has to butt lick 10 x as much now, Billy no mates with no money more like. WTAF have we done as "more sovereign " since Brexit.
It has nothing to do with anything anyone has done. You can have legs but you can still sit on your bum if you decide to do so. Your decision not to use them doesn't mean they're not there.
Fine words butter no parsnips. Give up billions and impoverish people but hey you are sovereign , eat it up.
We didn't give up billions. We have saved £12bn a year that today would be in the region of £20bn a year.
Till Starmer started trying to give it back in exchange for the EU farting in his face and calling it a blowdry.
So IOWC now has an extra half hour, and the next decision is to elect the Tory group leader as vice chair of some committee or other. Simply storing up more problems for the year ahead.
I like your dog travels Ian , keep it up
Here's him enjoying your magnificent Highlands just recently
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
I've been to the EU three times since Brexit. Arguably Brexit has added 10 minutes to getting through passport control. But that's time you'd just be waiting at baggage reclaim anyway. You get through the airport no less quickly. Its impact on getting into the country is zero.
But not many people have checked luggage on short haul flights. It’s all up in the overhead lockers.
Anyway, it’s a very first world problem. But it annoys remainers - it’s a sort of micro aggression performed on them by Boris - and that’s 48% of the voting population (or was in 2016). So if Starmer can get even one of those pesky 10% currently saying they’ll vote Green back on side then it’s worth doing.
Starmer has spent most of the last few months trying to pander to Reform supporters so handing down a few tiny crumbs to half the population is at least something.
I almost always check in my luggage.
Really? Why? I can't remember when I last checked in bags, with the exception of longish trips to the US. What do you take?
I am making/made at least 5 trips to Europe this year for between 5 and 10 days each and will be using my cabin allowance each time. It is quite generous.
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)
Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through
But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
Starmer could supercharge EU travel for Brits in one simple move. Issue us all with Irish passports. Surely there’s some long forgotten provision of the GFA that allows this.
What I honestly do not understand is how Starmer fucked this up. As well as everything else
HMG signalled that a huge relaxation on e-gates was coming, as part of "the deal"
In my slightly annoyed mind I had to admit- that's clever retail politiics by Labour. It's a trivial concession by the EU but it will actually be noticeable for the average Brit, as they fly abroad this summer. Suddenly the Union Jack is in the signs saying "EU and EEA this way" - it will make people feel warmer about the EU and also warmer about Starmer, even if he's given away a decade of fishing rights
But, it turns out, he DIDN'T get that. He didn't get anything at all. The e-gates might be relaxed this autumn, by individual countries (too late for summer holidays) or they might not. The rules are status quo ante (Portugal already lets Brits use egates coz they are sensible not spiteful, and the rules allow it)
I mean, my God. How bad can you get at politics, to fuck that up? If you haven't got a deal, don't mention it, Instead they have made a big thing of it it, yet it won't happen, which means lots of irritated Britons in the summer who will now vaguely think even worse about this shitshow of a government
I don't think anyone has noticed it. It's entirely immaterial compared with something like WFP, or the 800 migrants who came across on boats today.
If anything, people will get pissed about the e-gates over the summer and look it up on the BBC and find out the supposed change happens in October and the overall effect will be neutral, or even positive. A shitty Tory policy finally in the bin.
Perhaps we should make the boat people wait on the beach till egates are mandatory throughout the eu?
Airports, ports and land borders are certainly easier to deal with than a body of water. For the first time in British history, I think the channel is a net negative.
That's not really true is it? A land border is considerably harder to police - no boat needed and those coming in are not limited to any particular landing places.
Nothing wrong with the sea, it's the dipshits policing it that are the issue.
Ok - correction: It's easier to defend a land border without killing people than a body of water. Do a US and put a big fence up.
A fence still needs watchtowers and barbed wire - it needs danger, people can't just be allowed to clamber over it.
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)
Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through
But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
Starmer could supercharge EU travel for Brits in one simple move. Issue us all with Irish passports. Surely there’s some long forgotten provision of the GFA that allows this.
What I honestly do not understand is how Starmer fucked this up. As well as everything else
HMG signalled that a huge relaxation on e-gates was coming, as part of "the deal"
In my slightly annoyed mind I had to admit- that's clever retail politiics by Labour. It's a trivial concession by the EU but it will actually be noticeable for the average Brit, as they fly abroad this summer. Suddenly the Union Jack is in the signs saying "EU and EEA this way" - it will make people feel warmer about the EU and also warmer about Starmer, even if he's given away a decade of fishing rights
But, it turns out, he DIDN'T get that. He didn't get anything at all. The e-gates might be relaxed this autumn, by individual countries (too late for summer holidays) or they might not. The rules are status quo ante (Portugal already lets Brits use egates coz they are sensible not spiteful, and the rules allow it)
I mean, my God. How bad can you get at politics, to fuck that up? If you haven't got a deal, don't mention it, Instead they have made a big thing of it it, yet it won't happen, which means lots of irritated Britons in the summer who will now vaguely think even worse about this shitshow of a government
I don't think anyone has noticed it. It's entirely immaterial compared with something like WFP, or the 800 migrants who came across on boats today.
If anything, people will get pissed about the e-gates over the summer and look it up on the BBC and find out the supposed change happens in October and the overall effect will be neutral, or even positive. A shitty Tory policy finally in the bin.
Perhaps we should make the boat people wait on the beach till egates are mandatory throughout the eu?
Airports, ports and land borders are certainly easier to deal with than a body of water. For the first time in British history, I think the channel is a net negative.
That's not really true is it? A land border is considerably harder to police - no boat needed and those coming in are not limited to any particular landing places.
Nothing wrong with the sea, it's the dipshits policing it that are the issue.
Ok - correction: It's easier to defend a land border without killing people than a body of water. Do a US and put a big fence up.
A fence still needs watchtowers and barbed wire - it needs danger, people can't just be allowed to clamber over it.
Your point was just innacurate. Which is fine.
Nah, I'm serious. I don't think you'd have the same migration industry - it would be back to people hiding in lorries and stuff like that. Much harder to facilitate hundreds - thousands - of people making that trip.
Currently all UK arrivals must go to a manned border counter to have their passport checked and stamped. In some places (Portugal, some French airports) they can use e-gates but then go to a counter for stamping.
In future there will be no legal requirement for the UK arrival to present to a person. But this is only possible once physical stamping has been phased out, when the EU equivalent of ESTA is in place.
So
- Will be legally in force from October - Will be phased in over the following few months - Expected to be fully in place in all member states by next summer - Doesn’t mean we get to queue in the EU/EEA line where there aren’t egates though.
It was an easy deal to make given wet stamping was being phased out anyway. The main benefit of it is to remove any ambiguity about UK nationals having the right to e-gates.
Did you leave out the part where its only advisory and no state has to comply ....oh yes you did
E-gates aren’t mandatory even for EU citizens.
But I’m not here to propagandise for Starmer. It’s a pretty thin agreement, but actually it would have been legally virtually impossible to have a fatter one, short of joining the EEA.
It's not a "thin" agreement, it's a terrible agreement
We had one massive lever to pull: fishing rights
Not only did he get nothing for it, he gave away our right to pull it for TWELVE YEARS. In return for nothing. Not even "e-gates"
That's why he deserves all the contempt that is surely coming. He's a truly inept politician, he just cannot do this stuff, he's a prissy, vain, silly, mediocre, hypocritical lawyer - with no dreams, and negative charisma - who was hugely over-promoted as DPP, let alone PM
Firstly, who are the people who want to join the EU but don't want to join the Customs Union or Single Market?
Secondly, agreeing that Brexit has been a failure is different from thinking it was a bad idea. It was a good idea, poorly executed by the Tories. Labour are now attempting to turn the crap Tory version of Brexit into a positive Labour version of Brexit.
(I appreciate that some will thing that there is no such thing as a good version of Brexit; here we will differ.)
I'm baffled by the idea that "Brexit has been a failure". Brexit simply meant leaving the EU, no longer paying money into the EU, no longer having a say in how the EU evolves and so on. That has been completed successfully. People believe it has been a failure because they feel that they are worse off now than before Brexit. The trouble is we have two ginormous confounders - Covid and a major war in Europe that mask the effects of Brexit. Too often this is not accounted for. Too often the negative of Brexit seems to devolve to "I had to queue at the airport while others just breezed through".
If the only reason for voting for Brexit was that you believed it would be economically in Britain's interest to do so then you may proclaim it a failure. But that was never the case.
It's not an easy thing to assess. At the price of a smaller economy (duly delivered) there was meant to be the intangible benefit of people feeling more sovereign and in control. This does not seem to have transpired. They're as grumpy as ever. But it could be an improved type of grumpiness now we're outside the EU. A grumpiness leavened by a sense of freedom and autonomy. If so, and you feel this outweighs the economic hit, you can argue Brexit has been a success.
We dont however have a smaller economy gdp has grown year on year by about the same as it did when we were in the EU. This idea we lost 4 percent gdp assumes we would have grown at a rate faster than we ever did in the EU....its a prediction of what may have happened from a europhillic organistation
You can never prove the impact because there's no counterfactual - but that leaving the EU was economically damaging (since it introduced a load of friction into trade/commerce between us and our single largest counterparty) is about as close to a fact as you can get in these choppy waters. The vast majority of informed opinion (which excludes both you and I) says so and the vast majority of informed opinion on anything is usually right.
You're assuming that ever easier trade with a group the UK has a massive trade deficit with is always a good thing.
I'm not assuming anything. I just don't feel empowered to go against the overwhelming informed consensus on Brexit being a hit to the UK economy.
But as I say, there is hopefully the intangible benefit of people feeling more sovereign. I don't, I must admit, but perhaps those who voted Leave do.
Do PB Leavers feel more sovereign?
We are more sovereign. That is an indisputable fact. I'm not sure what it is you think you should be 'feeling' that you aren't, but perhaps that's better discussed with a qualified professional.
Sovereign my arse, UK has to butt lick 10 x as much now, Billy no mates with no money more like. WTAF have we done as "more sovereign " since Brexit.
It has nothing to do with anything anyone has done. You can have legs but you can still sit on your bum if you decide to do so. Your decision not to use them doesn't mean they're not there.
Fine words butter no parsnips. Give up billions and impoverish people but hey you are sovereign , eat it up.
We didn't give up billions. We have saved £12bn a year that today would be in the region of £20bn a year.
Till Starmer started trying to give it back in exchange for the EU farting in his face and calling it a blowdry.
That's the other point, you make very well: all this isn't free, it will come at a price, and the numbers may look very different for Starmer once the public find out just how much we have to pay to be told what to do.
This IOWC council meeting is throwing up a right mix of appointments for the year ahead.
Mostly, the non-Tory independents are coming out ahead of the Tories. But with enough pro-Tories getting through to make it very difficult to coherently administer the council.
What they don't know is that a by-election is very likely imminent.
Ooh, that sounds exciting.
Keep us posted on how the by-election progresses in Ventnor North.
All the council members bob about in barrels in Cowes harbour and are fished out by locals like a big game of hook the duck - jobs issued on order they are hooked.
IOWC hoped the committee system would get itself out of a mess, but instead tonight it has landed the council right in the middle of a greater mess.
It's going to take a miracle to fend off the Reform challenge come elections next May.
The cabinet system has lots of drawbacks, but at least the council's senior team know which councillors they need to work with to get the business done. For the coming year, council officers are really going to struggle, particularly with a bunch of councillors all trying to position themselves for an election that, judging from current polls, most of them will lose.
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)
Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through
But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
Starmer could supercharge EU travel for Brits in one simple move. Issue us all with Irish passports. Surely there’s some long forgotten provision of the GFA that allows this.
What I honestly do not understand is how Starmer fucked this up. As well as everything else
HMG signalled that a huge relaxation on e-gates was coming, as part of "the deal"
In my slightly annoyed mind I had to admit- that's clever retail politiics by Labour. It's a trivial concession by the EU but it will actually be noticeable for the average Brit, as they fly abroad this summer. Suddenly the Union Jack is in the signs saying "EU and EEA this way" - it will make people feel warmer about the EU and also warmer about Starmer, even if he's given away a decade of fishing rights
But, it turns out, he DIDN'T get that. He didn't get anything at all. The e-gates might be relaxed this autumn, by individual countries (too late for summer holidays) or they might not. The rules are status quo ante (Portugal already lets Brits use egates coz they are sensible not spiteful, and the rules allow it)
I mean, my God. How bad can you get at politics, to fuck that up? If you haven't got a deal, don't mention it, Instead they have made a big thing of it it, yet it won't happen, which means lots of irritated Britons in the summer who will now vaguely think even worse about this shitshow of a government
I don't think anyone has noticed it. It's entirely immaterial compared with something like WFP, or the 800 migrants who came across on boats today.
If anything, people will get pissed about the e-gates over the summer and look it up on the BBC and find out the supposed change happens in October and the overall effect will be neutral, or even positive. A shitty Tory policy finally in the bin.
Perhaps we should make the boat people wait on the beach till egates are mandatory throughout the eu?
Airports, ports and land borders are certainly easier to deal with than a body of water. For the first time in British history, I think the channel is a net negative.
That's not really true is it? A land border is considerably harder to police - no boat needed and those coming in are not limited to any particular landing places.
Nothing wrong with the sea, it's the dipshits policing it that are the issue.
Ok - correction: It's easier to defend a land border without killing people than a body of water. Do a US and put a big fence up.
A fence still needs watchtowers and barbed wire - it needs danger, people can't just be allowed to clamber over it.
Now the IOWC is within five minutes of running out of time, and there's a debate about giving the council another half hour to sort out this mess.
Those of you overly exercised at preventing my dog sniffing the world are missing out on the real news unfolding in the Newport council chamber.
Because the Isle of wight makes the land that time forgot look modern?
... says the poster who won't use a smartphone.
I have a smartphone, not a luddite I just like it days gone by dont feel a need to be governed by it. If I am out they can leave a message and if I feel its important will get back to them when convenient. More surprised that anyone feels that the phone runs their life frankly. Pretty much no phone call or text is so important that it cant wait a couple of hours
I don’t like the phrase 'smartphone'. Though I admit that 'cleverphone' needs work.
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
As by FAR the most well travelled PB-er, I can confirm that it is still a minor issue - shortish delays compared to EU citizens (10-15 minutes more on average, sometimes longer, sometimes it's actually quicker)
Once every 20 -30 flights it is REALLY annoying, and you coincide with some American planes coming in, or Chinese, and suddenly it can take 1-2 hours when EU citizens swan through
But that means the average Brit won't encounter this moe than once a decade, indeed maybe much less as the airports used to massive UK influx are well adapted (eg Portugal, Spain, Greece)
Starmer could supercharge EU travel for Brits in one simple move. Issue us all with Irish passports. Surely there’s some long forgotten provision of the GFA that allows this.
What I honestly do not understand is how Starmer fucked this up. As well as everything else
HMG signalled that a huge relaxation on e-gates was coming, as part of "the deal"
In my slightly annoyed mind I had to admit- that's clever retail politiics by Labour. It's a trivial concession by the EU but it will actually be noticeable for the average Brit, as they fly abroad this summer. Suddenly the Union Jack is in the signs saying "EU and EEA this way" - it will make people feel warmer about the EU and also warmer about Starmer, even if he's given away a decade of fishing rights
But, it turns out, he DIDN'T get that. He didn't get anything at all. The e-gates might be relaxed this autumn, by individual countries (too late for summer holidays) or they might not. The rules are status quo ante (Portugal already lets Brits use egates coz they are sensible not spiteful, and the rules allow it)
I mean, my God. How bad can you get at politics, to fuck that up? If you haven't got a deal, don't mention it, Instead they have made a big thing of it it, yet it won't happen, which means lots of irritated Britons in the summer who will now vaguely think even worse about this shitshow of a government
I don't think anyone has noticed it. It's entirely immaterial compared with something like WFP, or the 800 migrants who came across on boats today.
If anything, people will get pissed about the e-gates over the summer and look it up on the BBC and find out the supposed change happens in October and the overall effect will be neutral, or even positive. A shitty Tory policy finally in the bin.
Perhaps we should make the boat people wait on the beach till egates are mandatory throughout the eu?
Airports, ports and land borders are certainly easier to deal with than a body of water. For the first time in British history, I think the channel is a net negative.
That's not really true is it? A land border is considerably harder to police - no boat needed and those coming in are not limited to any particular landing places.
Nothing wrong with the sea, it's the dipshits policing it that are the issue.
Ok - correction: It's easier to defend a land border without killing people than a body of water. Do a US and put a big fence up.
A fence still needs watchtowers and barbed wire - it needs danger, people can't just be allowed to clamber over it.
Your point was just innacurate. Which is fine.
Nah, I'm serious. I don't think you'd have the same migration industry - it would be back to people hiding in lorries and stuff like that. Much harder to facilitate hundreds - thousands - of people making that trip.
Yes, it appears you are serious, but you're also quite clearly absolutely wrong. A sea border is a far greater obstacle than *checks notes* um, no obstacle at all. If the UK was surrounded on all sides by land, we would have shit all chance of stopping any of this.
Currently all UK arrivals must go to a manned border counter to have their passport checked and stamped. In some places (Portugal, some French airports) they can use e-gates but then go to a counter for stamping.
In future there will be no legal requirement for the UK arrival to present to a person. But this is only possible once physical stamping has been phased out, when the EU equivalent of ESTA is in place.
So
- Will be legally in force from October - Will be phased in over the following few months - Expected to be fully in place in all member states by next summer - Doesn’t mean we get to queue in the EU/EEA line where there aren’t egates though.
It was an easy deal to make given wet stamping was being phased out anyway. The main benefit of it is to remove any ambiguity about UK nationals having the right to e-gates.
Did you leave out the part where its only advisory and no state has to comply ....oh yes you did
E-gates aren’t mandatory even for EU citizens.
But I’m not here to propagandise for Starmer. It’s a pretty thin agreement, but actually it would have been legally virtually impossible to have a fatter one, short of joining the EEA.
It's not a "thin" agreement, it's a terrible agreement
We had one massive lever to pull: fishing rights
Not only did he get nothing for it, he gave away our right to pull it for TWELVE YEARS. In return for nothing. Not even "e-gates"
That's why he deserves all the contempt that is surely coming. He's a truly inept politician, he just cannot do this stuff, he's a prissy, vain, silly, mediocre, hypocritical lawyer - with no dreams, and negative charisma - who was hugely over-promoted as DPP, let alone PM
Still, at least we're debating Brexit again rather than TRANS, which is even worse and ever more relentless, so there is that.
This IOWC council meeting is throwing up a right mix of appointments for the year ahead.
Mostly, the non-Tory independents are coming out ahead of the Tories. But with enough pro-Tories getting through to make it very difficult to coherently administer the council.
What they don't know is that a by-election is very likely imminent.
Ooh, that sounds exciting.
Keep us posted on how the by-election progresses in Ventnor North.
All the council members bob about in barrels in Cowes harbour and are fished out by locals like a big game of hook the duck - jobs issued on order they are hooked.
IOWC hoped the committee system would get itself out of a mess, but instead tonight it has landed the council right in the middle of a greater mess.
It's going to take a miracle to fend off the Reform challenge come elections next May.
That's going to be true across a lot of the country.
Quite how the current Reform minority council works in Leics influences the new unitary council elections remains to be seen. Regrettably the voting will mostly be on unrelated national issues.
My main issue is that the stamps are all identical and so fucking boring.
That's what I wanted Starmer to really negotiate: more interesting passport stamps from European countries.
I hate it. I’m going to have to buy a new passport because it’s got full up of crappy little stamps saying Calais-Coquelles or Copenhagen on them.
I used to like it when the only stamps in there were at exotic crossing points in faraway lands.
So, you're saying Europe is a bit dull?
Frankly, I can't disagree.
You should look again. Europe is hands down the most beautiful, varied and holiday-worthy continent in the world. We take it for granted because it’s on our doorstep.
Vast range of climates and landscapes. The finest cities, architecture, history, culture, lifestyle.
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
I've been to the EU three times since Brexit. Arguably Brexit has added 10 minutes to getting through passport control. But that's time you'd just be waiting at baggage reclaim anyway. You get through the airport no less quickly. Its impact on getting into the country is zero.
Who the heck puts baggage in the hold on a trip to Europe?
Whereas I normally get through quickly I had a 3 hour wait at Lisbon.
If you land at an International airport rather than a tourist airport and it coincides with a plane from USA or China for instance you are stuffed.
PS Just 3 times since Brexit?
You think people going on a fortnight's holiday only take hand luggage?
Er yes. Most do just that. See my other post. I didn't for long trips to the US, but otherwise yes. You can take a big enough bag on easyJet and can pay extra for a bigger second bag. One is enough for me, but my wife goes for the second, but we really don't need it. That gives us 3 medium sized bags. We would be allowed a 4th.
What on earth do you take that needs hold luggage?
This IOWC council meeting is throwing up a right mix of appointments for the year ahead.
Mostly, the non-Tory independents are coming out ahead of the Tories. But with enough pro-Tories getting through to make it very difficult to coherently administer the council.
What they don't know is that a by-election is very likely imminent.
Ooh, that sounds exciting.
Keep us posted on how the by-election progresses in Ventnor North.
All the council members bob about in barrels in Cowes harbour and are fished out by locals like a big game of hook the duck - jobs issued on order they are hooked.
IOWC hoped the committee system would get itself out of a mess, but instead tonight it has landed the council right in the middle of a greater mess.
It's going to take a miracle to fend off the Reform challenge come elections next May.
The cabinet system has lots of drawbacks, but at least the council's senior team know which councillors they need to work with to get the business done. For the coming year, council officers are really going to struggle, particularly with a bunch of councillors all trying to position themselves for an election that, judging from current polls, most of them will lose.
The time for the Vectis National Party is upon us.
I mean, my God. How bad can you get at politics, to fuck that up? If you haven't got a deal, don't mention it. Instead Labour have made a big thing of it it, yet it won't happen, which means lots of irritated Britons in the summer who will now vaguely think even worse about this shitshow of a government
Starmer is rubbish at politics. It also doesn't help that he has a whiny voice and no charisma. He's probably quite competent at doing things if office, but it won't take much for Labour to be in a real pickle come the next general election.
Why don't you get yourself down to the Isle of Wight council chamber with @IanB2 and watch the deliberations as they try to select the Deputy Chair for the Planning Committee in Freshwater?
I hear it's a real corker and may go on until midnight, after which there will be typhoo tea and bourbon creams
My main issue is that the stamps are all identical and so fucking boring.
That's what I wanted Starmer to really negotiate: more interesting passport stamps from European countries.
I hate it. I’m going to have to buy a new passport because it’s got full up of crappy little stamps saying Calais-Coquelles or Copenhagen on them.
I used to like it when the only stamps in there were at exotic crossing points in faraway lands.
So, you're saying Europe is a bit dull?
Frankly, I can't disagree.
You should look again. Europe is hands down the most beautiful, varied and holiday-worthy continent in the world. We take it for granted because it’s on our doorstep.
Vast range of climates and landscapes. The finest cities, architecture, history, culture, lifestyle.
Yes, I would agree with all that. So does the Spectator
"And what goes for [great European] cheese also goes for: wine, dessert wine, most churches, classical music, chocolate, democracy, philosophy, beautiful towns (despite the graffiti), novels, paintings, sculpture, car design, romantic poetry, cobbled streets, scientific invention, sensible bin collection, the Enlightenment, mathematics, astronomy, high fashion, football, cricket, tennis, rugby, skiing, hockey (thank you, England), the Renaissance, Goethe, charcuterie, Raphael, the law of perspective, proper castles, village greens, toasted crumpets, toast, champagne, that little posh biscuit you get with an espresso in France, gin and tonic, Scotch whisky, calculus, the Beatles, snooker, Shakespeare, television, Picasso, Flaubert, Paris, Venice, Verona, Cambridge, Edinburgh, Bruges, Georgian housing, the piazza, Joyce, aperitifs, the theory of evolution, universities, habeas corpus, pizza, Freud, Aperol spritz, the internet, Isaac Newton and golf. They all come from western Europe – or they were adapted and absorbed by western Europe and then made so much better. As we did with cheese.
It is quite the list, is it not? It always surprises me that the Remain side in the Brexit campaign didn’t go with something like this – something exuberantly positive. Something proudly saying: we are European as well as British, and we Europeans are basically the best at everything, especially cheese. How could you not want to be in on that? It would have ignored all the downsides of the EU (from the democratic deficit to the mess that is the euro) – but it might have won. And won easily.
Why didn’t they try it? Probably because it would have seemed jingoistic, or racist, or brash. Or perhaps because they were dim."
Firstly, who are the people who want to join the EU but don't want to join the Customs Union or Single Market?
Secondly, agreeing that Brexit has been a failure is different from thinking it was a bad idea. It was a good idea, poorly executed by the Tories. Labour are now attempting to turn the crap Tory version of Brexit into a positive Labour version of Brexit.
(I appreciate that some will thing that there is no such thing as a good version of Brexit; here we will differ.)
I'm baffled by the idea that "Brexit has been a failure". Brexit simply meant leaving the EU, no longer paying money into the EU, no longer having a say in how the EU evolves and so on. That has been completed successfully. People believe it has been a failure because they feel that they are worse off now than before Brexit. The trouble is we have two ginormous confounders - Covid and a major war in Europe that mask the effects of Brexit. Too often this is not accounted for. Too often the negative of Brexit seems to devolve to "I had to queue at the airport while others just breezed through".
If the only reason for voting for Brexit was that you believed it would be economically in Britain's interest to do so then you may proclaim it a failure. But that was never the case.
It's not an easy thing to assess. At the price of a smaller economy (duly delivered) there was meant to be the intangible benefit of people feeling more sovereign and in control. This does not seem to have transpired. They're as grumpy as ever. But it could be an improved type of grumpiness now we're outside the EU. A grumpiness leavened by a sense of freedom and autonomy. If so, and you feel this outweighs the economic hit, you can argue Brexit has been a success.
We dont however have a smaller economy gdp has grown year on year by about the same as it did when we were in the EU. This idea we lost 4 percent gdp assumes we would have grown at a rate faster than we ever did in the EU....its a prediction of what may have happened from a europhillic organistation
You can never prove the impact because there's no counterfactual - but that leaving the EU was economically damaging (since it introduced a load of friction into trade/commerce between us and our single largest counterparty) is about as close to a fact as you can get in these choppy waters. The vast majority of informed opinion (which excludes both you and I) says so and the vast majority of informed opinion on anything is usually right.
You're assuming that ever easier trade with a group the UK has a massive trade deficit with is always a good thing.
I'm not assuming anything. I just don't feel empowered to go against the overwhelming informed consensus on Brexit being a hit to the UK economy.
But as I say, there is hopefully the intangible benefit of people feeling more sovereign. I don't, I must admit, but perhaps those who voted Leave do.
Do PB Leavers feel more sovereign?
We are more sovereign. That is an indisputable fact. I'm not sure what it is you think you should be 'feeling' that you aren't, but perhaps that's better discussed with a qualified professional.
Sovereign my arse, UK has to butt lick 10 x as much now, Billy no mates with no money more like. WTAF have we done as "more sovereign " since Brexit.
It has nothing to do with anything anyone has done. You can have legs but you can still sit on your bum if you decide to do so. Your decision not to use them doesn't mean they're not there.
Fine words butter no parsnips. Give up billions and impoverish people but hey you are sovereign , eat it up.
The origins of common aphorisms, lost in the mists of time.
Somewhere, once upon a time, someone (not Shakespeare) was the first person on earth to say “fine words butter no parsnips”.
My main issue is that the stamps are all identical and so fucking boring.
That's what I wanted Starmer to really negotiate: more interesting passport stamps from European countries.
I hate it. I’m going to have to buy a new passport because it’s got full up of crappy little stamps saying Calais-Coquelles or Copenhagen on them.
I used to like it when the only stamps in there were at exotic crossing points in faraway lands.
So, you're saying Europe is a bit dull?
Frankly, I can't disagree.
You should look again. Europe is hands down the most beautiful, varied and holiday-worthy continent in the world. We take it for granted because it’s on our doorstep.
Vast range of climates and landscapes. The finest cities, architecture, history, culture, lifestyle.
The famous Liberal Democrat sense of humour strikes again, I see.
Why don't you get yourself down to the Isle of Wight council chamber with @IanB2 and watch the deliberations as they try to select the Deputy Chair for the Planning Committee in Freshwater?
I hear it's a real corker and may go on until midnight, after which there will be typhoo tea and bourbon creams
Politics in real time. If you would rather be interested in other stuff, perhaps you should be off having a wank?
My main issue is that the stamps are all identical and so fucking boring.
That's what I wanted Starmer to really negotiate: more interesting passport stamps from European countries.
I hate it. I’m going to have to buy a new passport because it’s got full up of crappy little stamps saying Calais-Coquelles or Copenhagen on them.
I used to like it when the only stamps in there were at exotic crossing points in faraway lands.
So, you're saying Europe is a bit dull?
Frankly, I can't disagree.
You should look again. Europe is hands down the most beautiful, varied and holiday-worthy continent in the world. We take it for granted because it’s on our doorstep.
Vast range of climates and landscapes. The finest cities, architecture, history, culture, lifestyle.
It is not on our doorstep - we are part of Europe.
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
I've been to the EU three times since Brexit. Arguably Brexit has added 10 minutes to getting through passport control. But that's time you'd just be waiting at baggage reclaim anyway. You get through the airport no less quickly. Its impact on getting into the country is zero.
Who the heck puts baggage in the hold on a trip to Europe?
Whereas I normally get through quickly I had a 3 hour wait at Lisbon.
If you land at an International airport rather than a tourist airport and it coincides with a plane from USA or China for instance you are stuffed.
PS Just 3 times since Brexit?
You think people going on a fortnight's holiday only take hand luggage?
Er yes. Most do just that. See my other post. I didn't for long trips to the US, but otherwise yes. You can take a big enough bag on easyJet and can pay extra for a bigger second bag. One is enough for me, but my wife goes for the second, but we really don't need it. That gives us 3 medium sized bags. We would be allowed a 4th.
What on earth do you take that needs hold luggage?
Why don't you get yourself down to the Isle of Wight council chamber with @IanB2 and watch the deliberations as they try to select the Deputy Chair for the Planning Committee in Freshwater?
I hear it's a real corker and may go on until midnight, after which there will be typhoo tea and bourbon creams
Politics in real time. If you would rather be interested in other stuff, perhaps you should be off having a wank?
NEW YORK, May 21 (Reuters) - Twelve U.S. states asked a federal court on Wednesday to halt President Donald Trump's "Liberation Day" tariffs, arguing that he overstepped his authority by declaring a national emergency to impose across-the-board taxes on imports from nations that sell more to the U.S. than they buy.
A three-judge panel of the Manhattan-based Court of International Trade is hearing arguments in a lawsuit brought by the Democratic attorneys general of New York, Illinois, Oregon, and nine other states. They say the Republican president has sought a "blank check" to regulate trade "at his whim."
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
I've been to the EU three times since Brexit. Arguably Brexit has added 10 minutes to getting through passport control. But that's time you'd just be waiting at baggage reclaim anyway. You get through the airport no less quickly. Its impact on getting into the country is zero.
Who the heck puts baggage in the hold on a trip to Europe?
Whereas I normally get through quickly I had a 3 hour wait at Lisbon.
If you land at an International airport rather than a tourist airport and it coincides with a plane from USA or China for instance you are stuffed.
PS Just 3 times since Brexit?
You think people going on a fortnight's holiday only take hand luggage?
Er yes. Most do just that. See my other post. I didn't for long trips to the US, but otherwise yes. You can take a big enough bag on easyJet and can pay extra for a bigger second bag. One is enough for me, but my wife goes for the second, but we really don't need it. That gives us 3 medium sized bags. We would be allowed a 4th.
What on earth do you take that needs hold luggage?
Some people don't want to wash pants & socks & tshirts in hotel sinks. I'm happy to, because I save money and time and faff. But some aren't.
My main issue is that the stamps are all identical and so fucking boring.
That's what I wanted Starmer to really negotiate: more interesting passport stamps from European countries.
I hate it. I’m going to have to buy a new passport because it’s got full up of crappy little stamps saying Calais-Coquelles or Copenhagen on them.
I used to like it when the only stamps in there were at exotic crossing points in faraway lands.
So, you're saying Europe is a bit dull?
Frankly, I can't disagree.
You should look again. Europe is hands down the most beautiful, varied and holiday-worthy continent in the world. We take it for granted because it’s on our doorstep.
Vast range of climates and landscapes. The finest cities, architecture, history, culture, lifestyle.
The famous Liberal Democrat sense of humour strikes again, I see.
Difficult to argue that there is so much to see in Europe. I personally think that France, Switzerland, Italy and Greece have the most beautiful landscapes of mainland Europe, but there's so much to see, from so many perspectives, as mentioned above.
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
I've been to the EU three times since Brexit. Arguably Brexit has added 10 minutes to getting through passport control. But that's time you'd just be waiting at baggage reclaim anyway. You get through the airport no less quickly. Its impact on getting into the country is zero.
Who the heck puts baggage in the hold on a trip to Europe?
Whereas I normally get through quickly I had a 3 hour wait at Lisbon.
If you land at an International airport rather than a tourist airport and it coincides with a plane from USA or China for instance you are stuffed.
PS Just 3 times since Brexit?
You think people going on a fortnight's holiday only take hand luggage?
Er yes. Most do just that. See my other post. I didn't for long trips to the US, but otherwise yes. You can take a big enough bag on easyJet and can pay extra for a bigger second bag. One is enough for me, but my wife goes for the second, but we really don't need it. That gives us 3 medium sized bags. We would be allowed a 4th.
What on earth do you take that needs hold luggage?
Two weeks worth of clean clothes, range of footwear beach towels (if not provided by hotel), toiletries, space for any souvenirs or other tat bought while away.
Hand luggage contains passports, tickets, medicines and, on the return, duty free booze.
It was a hopeless header. With Hojland Man U are playing with 10 men, week in week out. Its bewildering. As is leaving substitutions until there are less than 20 minutes left. Amorim deserves to lose his job for this and he will.
Staunch Brexiteers have resorted to claiming they actually like queueing at airports in a desperate attempt to criticise the new UK-EU deal.
I fail to see how this is a major issue (admittedly I don't do much travelling!) How often do most people go through passport queues in the EU every year. Once, twice at most? Does it usually take hours for non-EU arrivals to be processed?
I've been to the EU three times since Brexit. Arguably Brexit has added 10 minutes to getting through passport control. But that's time you'd just be waiting at baggage reclaim anyway. You get through the airport no less quickly. Its impact on getting into the country is zero.
Who the heck puts baggage in the hold on a trip to Europe?
Whereas I normally get through quickly I had a 3 hour wait at Lisbon.
If you land at an International airport rather than a tourist airport and it coincides with a plane from USA or China for instance you are stuffed.
PS Just 3 times since Brexit?
You think people going on a fortnight's holiday only take hand luggage?
Er yes. Most do just that. See my other post. I didn't for long trips to the US, but otherwise yes. You can take a big enough bag on easyJet and can pay extra for a bigger second bag. One is enough for me, but my wife goes for the second, but we really don't need it. That gives us 3 medium sized bags. We would be allowed a 4th.
What on earth do you take that needs hold luggage?
Some people don't want to wash pants & socks & tshirts in hotel sinks. I'm happy to, because I save money and time and faff. But some aren't.
Also bringing two big bags onto a plane can cause grief, and strife, and anxiety, as you squabble over space
I often prefer the calmness of one cabin bag, which can slip under the seat in front, and hold baggage. Yes you have to collect it, but that process introduces half an hour or more of stranded carousel calm in which I can: catch up with emails, work out my next steps, send messages on WhatsApp, figure out e-sims, etc
Comments
If anything, people will get pissed about the e-gates over the summer and look it up on the BBC and find out the supposed change happens in October and the overall effect will be neutral, or even positive. A shitty Tory policy finally in the bin.
Mostly, the non-Tory independents are coming out ahead of the Tories. But with enough pro-Tories getting through to make it very difficult to coherently administer the council.
What they don't know is that a by-election is very likely imminent.
Your problem is you're forever trying the new big thing and lose all sense of proportion. Two weeks ago it was India/NICs, and I can barely remember it.
I really wish we had the reddit RemindMe! function so we could come and laugh you in August.
We've now agreed to dynamic alignment, in the hope that this will stop EU countries doing something they weren't meant to be doing anyway. And paying undisclosed sums of money to achieve it. AND preventing the UK from ever retaliating with our own importing red tape, because we will play by the rules.
It's really quite grotesque. Starmer's entire Government is a sort of gaslighting psyop.
The only person interfering in anyones life here is IanB2 by insisting on putting the whole country at risk potentially due to "its ma dog"
Those of you overly exercised at preventing my dog sniffing the world are missing out on the real news unfolding in the Newport council chamber.
He knows this.
He could offer to fellate Donald Tusk whilst being horsewhipped by Ursula von der Leyen in latex, and they'd applaud.
Every error counts, every fumbled fuck up of a policy by Labour. And they do provide a whole shagload of material
He's totally fallen for the EU tactic of sequencing.
Frost didn't; he played them at their own game.
Nothing wrong with the sea, it's the dipshits policing it that are the issue.
Currently all UK arrivals must go to a manned border counter to have their passport checked and stamped. In some places (Portugal, some French airports) they can use e-gates but then go to a counter for stamping.
In future there will be no legal requirement for the UK arrival to present to a person. But this is only possible once physical stamping has been phased out, when the EU equivalent of ESTA is in place.
So
- Will be legally in force from October
- Will be phased in over the following few months
- Expected to be fully in place in all member states by next summer
- Doesn’t mean we get to queue in the EU/EEA line where there aren’t egates though.
It was an easy deal to make given wet stamping was being phased out anyway. The main benefit of it is to remove any ambiguity about UK nationals having the right to e-gates.
Seriously, what do you think the chances of you catching rabies off a dog brought in via the pet passport scheme?
Somehow, Starmer failed to get it?? Despite the promises? He is stupefyingly bad at this
WTAF have we done as "more sovereign " since Brexit.
Keep us posted on how the by-election progresses in Ventnor North.
We will still be in the queue with Yanks and Chinese
There is no "deal", you clown-faced, knob-nosed dunce
My god, they are sad
Why don't you just go and hit up the pubs in Newport instead? Or, you know, try and pick up girls? Failing that, have a wank?
I take cabin baggage for all work travel, including long haul. Also if holidaying with friends, like to Senegal last year. I’d probably check luggage if I were going away with work for a fortnight but that’s not happened in 30 years of career.
Your point was just innacurate. Which is fine.
My main issue is that the stamps are all identical and so fucking boring.
That's what I wanted Starmer to really negotiate: more interesting passport stamps from European countries.
Either kennel it, house sit it or take a holiday in the uk....taking a dog abroad is a want not a need and yes could well bring shit back with it. (Yes I know so could humans which is why they shouldnt be allowed back in either
But I’m not here to propagandise for Starmer. It’s a pretty thin agreement, but actually it would have been legally virtually impossible to have a fatter one, short of joining the EEA.
Lol.
Then again, I quite like the IoW, Ventnor and the fresh fish it serves, so it's not all bad.
Just wish we had more of the dog and less of the dribblings.
I used to like it when the only stamps in there were at exotic crossing points in faraway lands.
High Voltage.
Frankly, I can't disagree.
Till Starmer started trying to give it back in exchange for the EU farting in his face and calling it a blowdry.
I am making/made at least 5 trips to Europe this year for between 5 and 10 days each and will be using my cabin allowance each time. It is quite generous.
We had one massive lever to pull: fishing rights
Not only did he get nothing for it, he gave away our right to pull it for TWELVE YEARS. In return for nothing. Not even "e-gates"
That's why he deserves all the contempt that is surely coming. He's a truly inept politician, he just cannot do this stuff, he's a prissy, vain, silly, mediocre, hypocritical lawyer - with no dreams, and negative charisma - who was hugely over-promoted as DPP, let alone PM
Which they will.
It's going to take a miracle to fend off the Reform challenge come elections next May.
The cabinet system has lots of drawbacks, but at least the council's senior team know which councillors they need to work with to get the business done. For the coming year, council officers are really going to struggle, particularly with a bunch of councillors all trying to position themselves for an election that, judging from current polls, most of them will lose.
https://x.com/paddypower/status/1925283993022255196
Does this deal have a penis?
Quite how the current Reform minority council works in Leics influences the new unitary council elections remains to be seen. Regrettably the voting will mostly be on unrelated national issues.
Vast range of climates and landscapes. The finest cities, architecture, history, culture, lifestyle.
What on earth do you take that needs hold luggage?
I hear it's a real corker and may go on until midnight, after which there will be typhoo tea and bourbon creams
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/when-it-comes-to-cheese-im-eurocentric/
"And what goes for [great European] cheese also goes for: wine, dessert wine, most churches, classical music, chocolate, democracy, philosophy, beautiful towns (despite the graffiti), novels, paintings, sculpture, car design, romantic poetry, cobbled streets, scientific invention, sensible bin collection, the Enlightenment, mathematics, astronomy, high fashion, football, cricket, tennis, rugby, skiing, hockey (thank you, England), the Renaissance, Goethe, charcuterie, Raphael, the law of perspective, proper castles, village greens, toasted crumpets, toast, champagne, that little posh biscuit you get with an espresso in France, gin and tonic, Scotch whisky, calculus, the Beatles, snooker, Shakespeare, television, Picasso, Flaubert, Paris, Venice, Verona, Cambridge, Edinburgh, Bruges, Georgian housing, the piazza, Joyce, aperitifs, the theory of evolution, universities, habeas corpus, pizza, Freud, Aperol spritz, the internet, Isaac Newton and golf. They all come from western Europe – or they were adapted and absorbed by western Europe and then made so much better. As we did with cheese.
It is quite the list, is it not? It always surprises me that the Remain side in the Brexit campaign didn’t go with something like this – something exuberantly positive. Something proudly saying: we are European as well as British, and we Europeans are basically the best at everything, especially cheese. How could you not want to be in on that? It would have ignored all the downsides of the EU (from the democratic deficit to the mess that is the euro) – but it might have won. And won easily.
Why didn’t they try it? Probably because it would have seemed jingoistic, or racist, or brash. Or perhaps because they were dim."
Somewhere, once upon a time, someone (not Shakespeare) was the first person on earth to say “fine words butter no parsnips”.
Or Mrs Foxy, and her various potions?
And on that note, goodnight all.
A three-judge panel of the Manhattan-based Court of International Trade is hearing arguments in a lawsuit brought by the Democratic attorneys general of New York, Illinois, Oregon, and nine other states. They say the Republican president has sought a "blank check" to regulate trade "at his whim."
https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/boards-policy-regulation/us-states-mount-court-challenge-trumps-tariffs-2025-05-21/
I personally think that France, Switzerland, Italy and Greece have the most beautiful landscapes of mainland Europe, but there's so much to see, from so many perspectives, as mentioned above.
range of footwear beach towels (if not provided by hotel), toiletries, space for any souvenirs or other tat bought while away.
Hand luggage contains passports, tickets, medicines and, on the return, duty free booze.
I often prefer the calmness of one cabin bag, which can slip under the seat in front, and hold baggage. Yes you have to collect it, but that process introduces half an hour or more of stranded carousel calm in which I can: catch up with emails, work out my next steps, send messages on WhatsApp, figure out e-sims, etc
Of course you have to pay for that tranquility