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Farage remains the favourite to become our next Prime Minister – politicalbetting.com

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  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,613
    edited February 21
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Attention please, ladies and gentlemen, I would like to call to order this meeting of the PB subcommittee, Naval Gun Turret Components, Civilian Uses Thereof.

    Taking the previous minutes as read, I now have a definitive answer to the Jodrell Bank question.

    The trunnion bearings that support the weight of the dish while allowing it to rotate around the horizontal axis were custom made for the job.

    The ring gears used to spin the dish around the same axis were salvaged from battleships.

    https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-the-inquisitive-giant-1957-online

    I don't know if you saw my (somewhat late) post on that topic, but the Russians 'used' turrets in their satellite comms station, e.g. one in Crimea.

    I heard a podcast that stated that the 'turrets' (more likely, I guess, components thereof) were from one of the Sovetsky Soyuz battleships the Russians started but never completed.

    It's hard to find firm evidence, but the following link has a piccie and the words "A rotating mechanism of the Pluton complex was reportedly fashioned out of submarine hulls and battleship turrets"

    https://www.russianspaceweb.com/kik_nip16.html

    Edit: and the original Jodrell Bank turned on bogies from a Castle Class. Allegedly...
    https://x.com/MrTimDunn/status/1339214594129137664?

    (That also states: "The telescope's motor system used gun turrets recycled from two navy battleships: HMS Revenge & HMS Royal Sovereign" )
    Hmmm. If by bogies they means the 'wheels' that run round the circular track, then the film I posted shows them being custom machined for the job. What is interesting in that post is the photo shows the dish inverted, which was a design feature that was lost when it was upgraded.
    Speaking of wheels, another step in Making Britain Great Again. Reports that the Spitfire is to go into full production next year are yet to be confirmed.

    https://x.com/RAFBBMF/status/1892599068351660246
    That's cool. I love the stuff a lot of these people managing heritage machines manage to do.

    (I do wonder if they were made to Imperial or Metric? One of the first things the guys doing the A1 Tornado project did, was to convert all their detailed drawings from Imperial to Metric. The reason being that there are declining numbers of manufacturers/fabricators who will deal with Imperial, and everything was easier if everything was in Metric.)
    Is that true?

    I thought the majority of aircraft are still imperial
    The large iron castings (wheels, bogies, cylinders) and particularly the boiler were the items mentioned IIRC. The fact the boiler design was in metric allowed them to get it made in Germany much cheaper than in the UK.

    Having everything designed on computer in one or the other makes a lot of sense, given the obvious issues of using both, or converting one to the other for individual components.

    Edit: I'm 99% sure about my statement about them converting the original plans they got from Imperial to metric, for the reason given. But you make an interesting point about aviation - I guess they're a very different type of fabricator.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,981

    Man disguised as lawyer kills gang leader in court
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crknd1e86x4o

    Just goes to show very difficult to tell mobsters and lawyers apart.....

    Although sometimes there is a little rat of sunlight that cheers you up

    the gunman used a revolver which was smuggled in a hollowed-out book
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,479

    Taz said:

    Last night got nasty. We're just a (mostly) British politics site. Imagine how nasty this is going to get for the people who are directly impacted by Trump and Trumpism.

    Some people will like Trump and Trumpism because he's for something they want - a return to the good old days, a fat tax cut for the people who have brainwashed them etc. For others its because he's against the things they are against - fags, women, non-whites. For a minority, they're on board because they have a shared enemy. As we witnessed last night.

    As we saw with Brexit, when the goal is contradictory and ill-defined, you can't possibly keep everyone happy, whether they support you or not. The irrationality hoops some people are going to be asked to jump through will literally send them mad. And the greatest show of all - the fallout when Trump throws Musk overboard. That will be some show...

    Yes it did get tetchy and I come here less and less of an evening as a consequence.I doubt people care a great deal. From my view it won’t get any better. Ever since Trump won there are a hardcore who cannot accept it and the language is incendiary and inflammatory. Even yours in your post using terms like ‘brainwashed’.

    People just cannot accept people vote for someone or a party they don’t like for positive reasons. We see it with Reform too.

    This group is largely full of entitled, well off, middle class white, middle aged, white men who sneer at the underclass and anyone who dares to dissent from their world view. The poor are fools for not seeing Angela Rayner as a working class hero and voting against their own interests if they vote for someone they don’t like.

    Fuck them.

    The likes of Leon and Dura Ace still make this place worth reading.
    FPT because I want to add some context to my use of the word "brainwashed"

    There are a sizeable group of people who profess to dislike being told what to do and what to think. They blame the thing whose name has evolved over time - political correctness, woke, BLM, the blob. Whatever you call it, there is definitely - they say - a push to make everyone think the same and they won't stand for it.

    I say brainwashed because these same "you can't tell me what to think or what to say" angry people then all parrot the exact same fact-free FUD. FUD is fear, uncertainty & doubt. At times this is at least rooted in a basis of fact which is then heavily manipulated or openly warped. At other times its literal demonstrable lies.

    These people are brainwashed. Gaslit. Lied to. Manipulated. Call it what you want. To make them angry so that they will behave in - and vote - in a certain way. They're right that there is a movement trying to push everyone to say and think the same. Its just that they are the targets and they are the people complying.

    This *is* brainwashing. There's chunks of it on the left (c.f. trots now backing Putin because he's the enemy of the enemies of Corbyn), and chunks of it on the right where we have weaponised ignorance manipulated to provoke literal riots last summer.
    The term may be disputed, but we're all influenced by our regular sources of news etc. And when people suddenly flip positions and parrot uniform reasoning despite not wanting to be told what to do, well its obvious.

    Conversely this is why i like people like luckyguy despite very often disagreeing with his conclusions, as my impression is he is consistent and has thought through his positions and doesn't shy away from them.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,436
    edited February 21

    Man disguised as lawyer kills gang leader in court
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crknd1e86x4o

    Just goes to show very difficult to tell mobsters and lawyers apart.....

    Although sometimes there is a little rat of sunlight that cheers you up

    the gunman used a revolver which was smuggled in a hollowed-out book
    Had they read the book? Was it any good?

    (And it's a ferret of sunlight, not a rat).
  • So the government borrowing is...wait for....£12bn higher than forecast....another one of those £12bn blackholes.

    Good morning

    £118.2 billion so far this year !!!!!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,631

    So there's an explanation why Badenoch is bad at PMQs, from another PB.

    Cardinal Sins. It's a Tucci subject

    Stanley Tucci would never have survived in the round the clock work schedule those actual Conclave cardinals are beholden to.

    The production team on his Italian cooking show are beginning to complain about working with him.

    His favourite diva-ish demand is that he really doesn't want to be on set after lunch.

    Very Mediterranean of him.

    Kemi Badenoch sounds like she's the reverse Tucci. Disgruntled aides are gossiping round the Westminster watering holes that she really doesn't like being asked to do much before lunch.

    Neither did Churchill, he was more of an owl than a lark and often worked in bed in the morning or in his bath
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,631
    Scott_xP said:

    I like the Madonna theme tune - she should have stuck to her lane.

    Talking of...

    @Madonna

    I thought this country was built by
    Europeans, escaping living under the rule of a King, to establish a New World governed by the people.
    Currently we have a president who calls Himself.
    Our King
    If this is a joke,
    I'm not laughing

    https://x.com/Madonna/status/1892742153261990189
    If Americans want a proper King back I am sure King Charles III would happily oblige
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,906

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dalton is the best Bond. Fact.

    Both his outings hold up rather well today.
    Licence to Kill was too violent, Bond shouldn't have a 15 certificate (and that was after cuts).
    I would agree. I do like both his films, they just have their flaws. The first half of The Living Daylights is magnificent.
    It is.
    The Living Daylights is my favourite Bond film. By far.

    No-one comes as close to nailing Fleming's Bond as Timothy Dalton.
    Do we all agree Die Another Day was the worst Bond film?
    Yes. I recently rewatched it (wish I hadn't) to see if it was as bad as people were saying, and how I remembered.

    It was. It was utterly dire. Like an Amazon remake.
    Now obviously Die Another Day is awful. The special effects were bad. The ideas were bad. The love interest who is secretly on the side of the baddy is bad. Madonna is bad.

    But I would like to say two things in its favour:

    Firstly, Bond's arriving at the hotel in Hong Kong is magnificent.
    Secondly, Toby Whatsisname (Glenda Jackson's son) has an amazing sneer.
    Toby Stephens, and he's Dame Maggie Smith's son.
    He is atrocious in it. I think he's been pretty atrocious in everything I've seen him in.

    I like the Madonna theme tune - she should have stuck to her lane.
    He really hasn't done much of note in the 23 years since being a Bond villain.
    He had the bad luck of Damian Lewis appearing and taking all the Posh Ginger Brit roles.

    It’s the actor equivalent as Stir of Echoes coming out around the time of the Sixth Sense or the Illusionist being gazumped by the Prestige.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,151
    This will be fascinating, once fully available to the public.

    Historic England acquires collection featuring some of UK’s oldest photos
    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2025/feb/21/historic-england-acquires-collection-featuring-some-of-uks-oldest-photos
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,436
    HYUFD said:

    So there's an explanation why Badenoch is bad at PMQs, from another PB.

    Cardinal Sins. It's a Tucci subject

    Stanley Tucci would never have survived in the round the clock work schedule those actual Conclave cardinals are beholden to.

    The production team on his Italian cooking show are beginning to complain about working with him.

    His favourite diva-ish demand is that he really doesn't want to be on set after lunch.

    Very Mediterranean of him.

    Kemi Badenoch sounds like she's the reverse Tucci. Disgruntled aides are gossiping round the Westminster watering holes that she really doesn't like being asked to do much before lunch.

    Neither did Churchill, he was more of an owl than a lark and often worked in bed in the morning or in his bath
    If Kemi is spending the time like Disraeli, reading Pride and Prejudice 17 times, I'm going to vote for her.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,578
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Attention please, ladies and gentlemen, I would like to call to order this meeting of the PB subcommittee, Naval Gun Turret Components, Civilian Uses Thereof.

    Taking the previous minutes as read, I now have a definitive answer to the Jodrell Bank question.

    The trunnion bearings that support the weight of the dish while allowing it to rotate around the horizontal axis were custom made for the job.

    The ring gears used to spin the dish around the same axis were salvaged from battleships.

    https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-the-inquisitive-giant-1957-online

    I don't know if you saw my (somewhat late) post on that topic, but the Russians 'used' turrets in their satellite comms station, e.g. one in Crimea.

    I heard a podcast that stated that the 'turrets' (more likely, I guess, components thereof) were from one of the Sovetsky Soyuz battleships the Russians started but never completed.

    It's hard to find firm evidence, but the following link has a piccie and the words "A rotating mechanism of the Pluton complex was reportedly fashioned out of submarine hulls and battleship turrets"

    https://www.russianspaceweb.com/kik_nip16.html

    Edit: and the original Jodrell Bank turned on bogies from a Castle Class. Allegedly...
    https://x.com/MrTimDunn/status/1339214594129137664?

    (That also states: "The telescope's motor system used gun turrets recycled from two navy battleships: HMS Revenge & HMS Royal Sovereign" )
    Hmmm. If by bogies they means the 'wheels' that run round the circular track, then the film I posted shows them being custom machined for the job. What is interesting in that post is the photo shows the dish inverted, which was a design feature that was lost when it was upgraded.
    Speaking of wheels, another step in Making Britain Great Again. Reports that the Spitfire is to go into full production next year are yet to be confirmed.

    https://x.com/RAFBBMF/status/1892599068351660246
    How on earth does it take 10 years to take some old wheels, measure them and machine some new ones. I take it funding them has been a problem because I bet I could find someone able to make them in 3 months by close of play today
    3D printing, innit...
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,619
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I like the Madonna theme tune - she should have stuck to her lane.

    Talking of...

    @Madonna

    I thought this country was built by
    Europeans, escaping living under the rule of a King, to establish a New World governed by the people.
    Currently we have a president who calls Himself.
    Our King
    If this is a joke,
    I'm not laughing

    https://x.com/Madonna/status/1892742153261990189
    If Americans want a proper King back I am sure King Charles III would happily oblige
    I wouldn’t if I were him. For a club to be meaningful it has to have some entry standards.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,237
    Nigelb said:

    This will be fascinating, once fully available to the public.

    Historic England acquires collection featuring some of UK’s oldest photos
    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2025/feb/21/historic-england-acquires-collection-featuring-some-of-uks-oldest-photos

    Historic England already has a tremendous backlog of images that they’re slowly uploading to their site. It’s worth a periodic look to see what’s new - the last batch of Aerofilm images they uploaded had some lovely shots.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,613
    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Last night got nasty. We're just a (mostly) British politics site. Imagine how nasty this is going to get for the people who are directly impacted by Trump and Trumpism.

    Some people will like Trump and Trumpism because he's for something they want - a return to the good old days, a fat tax cut for the people who have brainwashed them etc. For others its because he's against the things they are against - fags, women, non-whites. For a minority, they're on board because they have a shared enemy. As we witnessed last night.

    As we saw with Brexit, when the goal is contradictory and ill-defined, you can't possibly keep everyone happy, whether they support you or not. The irrationality hoops some people are going to be asked to jump through will literally send them mad. And the greatest show of all - the fallout when Trump throws Musk overboard. That will be some show...

    Yes it did get tetchy and I come here less and less of an evening as a consequence.I doubt people care a great deal. From my view it won’t get any better. Ever since Trump won there are a hardcore who cannot accept it and the language is incendiary and inflammatory. Even yours in your post using terms like ‘brainwashed’.

    People just cannot accept people vote for someone or a party they don’t like for positive reasons. We see it with Reform too.

    This group is largely full of entitled, well off, middle class white, middle aged, white men who sneer at the underclass and anyone who dares to dissent from their world view. The poor are fools for not seeing Angela Rayner as a working class hero and voting against their own interests if they vote for someone they don’t like.

    Fuck them.

    The likes of Leon and Dura Ace still make this place worth reading.
    FPT because I want to add some context to my use of the word "brainwashed"

    There are a sizeable group of people who profess to dislike being told what to do and what to think. They blame the thing whose name has evolved over time - political correctness, woke, BLM, the blob. Whatever you call it, there is definitely - they say - a push to make everyone think the same and they won't stand for it.

    I say brainwashed because these same "you can't tell me what to think or what to say" angry people then all parrot the exact same fact-free FUD. FUD is fear, uncertainty & doubt. At times this is at least rooted in a basis of fact which is then heavily manipulated or openly warped. At other times its literal demonstrable lies.

    These people are brainwashed. Gaslit. Lied to. Manipulated. Call it what you want. To make them angry so that they will behave in - and vote - in a certain way. They're right that there is a movement trying to push everyone to say and think the same. Its just that they are the targets and they are the people complying.

    This *is* brainwashing. There's chunks of it on the left (c.f. trots now backing Putin because he's the enemy of the enemies of Corbyn), and chunks of it on the right where we have weaponised ignorance manipulated to provoke literal riots last summer.
    The term may be disputed, but we're all influenced by our regular sources of news etc. And when people suddenly flip positions and parrot uniform reasoning despite not wanting to be told what to do, well its obvious.

    Conversely this is why i like people like luckyguy despite very often disagreeing with his conclusions, as my impression is he is consistent and has thought through his positions and doesn't shy away from them.
    "And when people suddenly flip positions..."

    I've got a (probably incorrect) suspicion about this. We all know the obvious Russian trolls that so obviously appear with their obvious talking points.

    We see them, laugh at them, and they get banned. Job jobbed.

    But if I was running a troll farm, I might have different levels of troll. We could call the obvious troll a level-1 troll.

    I would also have high-level trolls; one with more of a background. You invent a character's fictional background; who they are, age, their job, and their basic views (outside politics). You then have someone act in that role.

    But the problem is they're still a new poster, with no track record.

    One way I'd fix that is hijacking abandoned accounts of long-term posters, one with a track record and acknowledged name. Take over one or two of those accounts, examine the poster's previous posts for biographical details, and put some of these into later posts with the shifted position.

    So you hack a random person's online presence; look at their social media, and use it. Ideally the person would be deceased, but not necessarily. If I were to hack person A's accounts and find they ad not used Facebook (or PB...) for many months or years, then go in, change the accounts password, and use that account.

    I'll take my tinfoil hat off now... :)
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,208
    Jonathan said:

    Related to weasels. Does anyone know what came first. The animal called a ferret or the verb to ferret?

    Specifically are ferrets called ferrets because they ferret, or, did the act of ferreting get named after the animal.

    This bothers me and I fear I might take this question unanswered to the grave. Can PB help?

    Assuming you're still with us...

    From wikipedia "The name "ferret" is derived from the Latin furittus, meaning "little thief", a likely reference to the common ferret penchant for secreting away small items."

    So a bit of both :)


    The etymology bit of the article is quite fun!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferret#:~:text=The ferret (Mustela furo) is,belonging to the family Mustelidae.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,184

    Out of interest, as I was agog reading the warfare on here last night, one of my Labour mates sent me some screengrabs of one of the Momentum lot who came into and then left the Labour Party with Corbyn. No surprise, a major proponent of the Putin view of the world because Zelenskyy is "not allowing open democracy", and is "known to have ordered the killing of Russian speaking citizens of Ukraine like some sort of genocide"

    The trot left and the Trump/Farage alt-right are marching in lockstep. They both hate each other for ideological reasons yet are proudly speaking the same FUD for ideological reasons.

    Fascinating...

    It's a bit of a headscratcher. Zelensky is a native Russian speaker and only learned Ukranian as an adult.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,957
    Omnium said:

    Jonathan said:

    Related to weasels. Does anyone know what came first. The animal called a ferret or the verb to ferret?

    Specifically are ferrets called ferrets because they ferret, or, did the act of ferreting get named after the animal.

    This bothers me and I fear I might take this question unanswered to the grave. Can PB help?

    Assuming you're still with us...

    From wikipedia "The name "ferret" is derived from the Latin furittus, meaning "little thief", a likely reference to the common ferret penchant for secreting away small items."

    So a bit of both :)


    The etymology bit of the article is quite fun!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferret#:~:text=The ferret (Mustela furo) is,belonging to the family Mustelidae.
    🙏 Thanks. A bit of both! The quest continues.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,438

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dalton is the best Bond. Fact.

    Both his outings hold up rather well today.
    Licence to Kill was too violent, Bond shouldn't have a 15 certificate (and that was after cuts).
    I would agree. I do like both his films, they just have their flaws. The first half of The Living Daylights is magnificent.
    It is.
    The Living Daylights is my favourite Bond film. By far.

    No-one comes as close to nailing Fleming's Bond as Timothy Dalton.
    Do we all agree Die Another Day was the worst Bond film?
    Yes. I recently rewatched it (wish I hadn't) to see if it was as bad as people were saying, and how I remembered.

    It was. It was utterly dire. Like an Amazon remake.
    Now obviously Die Another Day is awful. The special effects were bad. The ideas were bad. The love interest who is secretly on the side of the baddy is bad. Madonna is bad.

    But I would like to say two things in its favour:

    Firstly, Bond's arriving at the hotel in Hong Kong is magnificent.
    Secondly, Toby Whatsisname (Glenda Jackson's son) has an amazing sneer.
    Toby Stephens, and he's Dame Maggie Smith's son.
    He is atrocious in it. I think he's been pretty atrocious in everything I've seen him in.

    I like the Madonna theme tune - she should have stuck to her lane.
    He really hasn't done much of note in the 23 years since being a Bond villain.
    He did Alan B'Stard. In a film that was too close to parody anyway, it really didn't help. I don't know how good he could be if he got proper training and worked on it, and was better directed, but his choices were bad.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,184

    ydoethur said:

    Surely an example of name recognition?

    Given the current circumstances including Starmer’s age the value is on Labour candidates. Who that would be given neither Reeves nor Lammy have so far especially distinguished themselves I don’t know. Cooper might be value in a sudden vacancy. Streeting or Miliband in the slightly longer term.

    I'm always cheerleading for Bridget Phillipson, but the knives appear to be out for her at the moment.
    They do indeed, but sometimes having the right enemies is helpful in a succession battle. The next leader may well not be one anointed by the one departing, indeed generally it is a reaction to them.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,613
    edited February 21
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Attention please, ladies and gentlemen, I would like to call to order this meeting of the PB subcommittee, Naval Gun Turret Components, Civilian Uses Thereof.

    Taking the previous minutes as read, I now have a definitive answer to the Jodrell Bank question.

    The trunnion bearings that support the weight of the dish while allowing it to rotate around the horizontal axis were custom made for the job.

    The ring gears used to spin the dish around the same axis were salvaged from battleships.

    https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-the-inquisitive-giant-1957-online

    I don't know if you saw my (somewhat late) post on that topic, but the Russians 'used' turrets in their satellite comms station, e.g. one in Crimea.

    I heard a podcast that stated that the 'turrets' (more likely, I guess, components thereof) were from one of the Sovetsky Soyuz battleships the Russians started but never completed.

    It's hard to find firm evidence, but the following link has a piccie and the words "A rotating mechanism of the Pluton complex was reportedly fashioned out of submarine hulls and battleship turrets"

    https://www.russianspaceweb.com/kik_nip16.html

    Edit: and the original Jodrell Bank turned on bogies from a Castle Class. Allegedly...
    https://x.com/MrTimDunn/status/1339214594129137664?

    (That also states: "The telescope's motor system used gun turrets recycled from two navy battleships: HMS Revenge & HMS Royal Sovereign" )
    Hmmm. If by bogies they means the 'wheels' that run round the circular track, then the film I posted shows them being custom machined for the job. What is interesting in that post is the photo shows the dish inverted, which was a design feature that was lost when it was upgraded.
    Speaking of wheels, another step in Making Britain Great Again. Reports that the Spitfire is to go into full production next year are yet to be confirmed.

    https://x.com/RAFBBMF/status/1892599068351660246
    How on earth does it take 10 years to take some old wheels, measure them and machine some new ones. I take it funding them has been a problem because I bet I could find someone able to make them in 3 months by close of play today
    Probably because there may have been no urgency? It's not as though the plane has been grounded for lack of wheels.

    At a WAG, ten years ago they realised the wheels were going to eventually reach their life-limit, or were at risk of being damaged. So they take measurements, look for original plans, and perhaps put them onto computer.

    But the wheels are not needed yet, so the project is put on the back-burner. Then, years later, they start looking for someone who can make them, get quotes, and get them fabricated. Why go to the expense of making them, and paying to store them, years before they are needed?

    Edit: I know from the steam heritage world that finding full plans (even with the NRM's help) can be a multi-year project. I wouldn't necessarily expect that to be the case here, though.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,806
    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I like the Madonna theme tune - she should have stuck to her lane.

    Talking of...

    @Madonna

    I thought this country was built by
    Europeans, escaping living under the rule of a King, to establish a New World governed by the people.
    Currently we have a president who calls Himself.
    Our King
    If this is a joke,
    I'm not laughing

    https://x.com/Madonna/status/1892742153261990189
    She's been a bit rubbish since she left the UK.
    And can she not do that stupid Leon thing of leaving off the full stops, it's very aging.
    FYI for certain people putting a full stop and the end of a txt is a rude, aggressive act!.?
    Really? I thought punctuation in texts had had a bit of a revival, when autocomplete led to less use of abbreviation and emoji use, so assumed full stops would be back in.
    I was told off as work for adding a full stop to Slack messages . People seem to think the key is hit with rage. I politely told them to “piss off.”
    That's the spirit.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,151
    S Korea's Trumpist right falls back down to earth.

    Support for ruling party falls to 34% amid Yoon's impeachment trial: poll
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=392719

    I suspect their brief lead in the polls may have been down to a large sampling error in badly designed online polling.
    Though public opinion is nonetheless pretty volatile.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,452
    edited February 21
    Jonathan said:

    Related to weasels. Does anyone know what came first. The animal called a ferret or the verb to ferret?

    Specifically are ferrets called ferrets because they ferret, or, did the act of ferreting get named after the animal.

    This bothers me and I fear I might take this question unanswered to the grave. Can PB help?

    Wiktionary says the etymology is from the latin for weasel: furrittum or “little thief”. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ferret
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,438

    Man disguised as lawyer kills gang leader in court
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crknd1e86x4o

    Just goes to show very difficult to tell mobsters and lawyers apart.....

    Although sometimes there is a little rat of sunlight that cheers you up

    the gunman used a revolver which was smuggled in a hollowed-out book
    A revolver? Rather retro. Why not a semi-automatic? Was it for reliability?
  • So the government borrowing is...wait for....£12bn higher than forecast....another one of those £12bn blackholes.

    Good morning

    £118.2 billion so far this year !!!!!

    This is a seminal moment. The Government has assumed that if it puts taxes up people will just grumble and pay them not act. Anecdotal evidence suggested this time it is different. Now the anecdotal evidence has become real. The Government can no longer put up taxes and get the OBR to assume they will generate net new money. The cuts will need to start shortly or Sterling will begin to fall.

    It is interesting that the hope that Farage and Reform get in power maybe the only thing to save the UK economy from immediate collapse.




  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,214

    So there's an explanation why Badenoch is bad at PMQs, from another PB.

    Cardinal Sins. It's a Tucci subject

    Stanley Tucci would never have survived in the round the clock work schedule those actual Conclave cardinals are beholden to.

    The production team on his Italian cooking show are beginning to complain about working with him.

    His favourite diva-ish demand is that he really doesn't want to be on set after lunch.

    Very Mediterranean of him.

    Kemi Badenoch sounds like she's the reverse Tucci. Disgruntled aides are gossiping round the Westminster watering holes that she really doesn't like being asked to do much before lunch.

    Saw Conclave last night. Really enjoyed it, although I was so close to the screen I could have been casting votes for the pope myself.

    I was surprised that there haven't been complaints here or by Trump that is woke. Maybe it has and I haven't noticed.
  • So the government borrowing is...wait for....£12bn higher than forecast....another one of those £12bn blackholes.

    Good morning

    £118.2 billion so far this year !!!!!

    This is a seminal moment. The Government has assumed that if it puts taxes up people will just grumble and pay them not act. Anecdotal evidence suggested this time it is different. Now the anecdotal evidence has become real. The Government can no longer put up taxes and get the OBR to assume they will generate net new money. The cuts will need to start shortly or Sterling will begin to fall.

    It is interesting that the hope that Farage and Reform get in power maybe the only thing to save the UK economy from immediate collapse.




    Whereas if Farage and Reform were in power the UK economy would have immediate collapse.

    Do they have any economic policies beyond tax cuts and spending increases ?
  • kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Last night got nasty. We're just a (mostly) British politics site. Imagine how nasty this is going to get for the people who are directly impacted by Trump and Trumpism.

    Some people will like Trump and Trumpism because he's for something they want - a return to the good old days, a fat tax cut for the people who have brainwashed them etc. For others its because he's against the things they are against - fags, women, non-whites. For a minority, they're on board because they have a shared enemy. As we witnessed last night.

    As we saw with Brexit, when the goal is contradictory and ill-defined, you can't possibly keep everyone happy, whether they support you or not. The irrationality hoops some people are going to be asked to jump through will literally send them mad. And the greatest show of all - the fallout when Trump throws Musk overboard. That will be some show...

    Yes it did get tetchy and I come here less and less of an evening as a consequence.I doubt people care a great deal. From my view it won’t get any better. Ever since Trump won there are a hardcore who cannot accept it and the language is incendiary and inflammatory. Even yours in your post using terms like ‘brainwashed’.

    People just cannot accept people vote for someone or a party they don’t like for positive reasons. We see it with Reform too.

    This group is largely full of entitled, well off, middle class white, middle aged, white men who sneer at the underclass and anyone who dares to dissent from their world view. The poor are fools for not seeing Angela Rayner as a working class hero and voting against their own interests if they vote for someone they don’t like.

    Fuck them.

    The likes of Leon and Dura Ace still make this place worth reading.
    FPT because I want to add some context to my use of the word "brainwashed"

    There are a sizeable group of people who profess to dislike being told what to do and what to think. They blame the thing whose name has evolved over time - political correctness, woke, BLM, the blob. Whatever you call it, there is definitely - they say - a push to make everyone think the same and they won't stand for it.

    I say brainwashed because these same "you can't tell me what to think or what to say" angry people then all parrot the exact same fact-free FUD. FUD is fear, uncertainty & doubt. At times this is at least rooted in a basis of fact which is then heavily manipulated or openly warped. At other times its literal demonstrable lies.

    These people are brainwashed. Gaslit. Lied to. Manipulated. Call it what you want. To make them angry so that they will behave in - and vote - in a certain way. They're right that there is a movement trying to push everyone to say and think the same. Its just that they are the targets and they are the people complying.

    This *is* brainwashing. There's chunks of it on the left (c.f. trots now backing Putin because he's the enemy of the enemies of Corbyn), and chunks of it on the right where we have weaponised ignorance manipulated to provoke literal riots last summer.
    The term may be disputed, but we're all influenced by our regular sources of news etc. And when people suddenly flip positions and parrot uniform reasoning despite not wanting to be told what to do, well its obvious.

    Conversely this is why i like people like luckyguy despite very often disagreeing with his conclusions, as my impression is he is consistent and has thought through his positions and doesn't shy away from them.
    It's actually amazing that human brains can consider the same reality and yet come to such wildly different conclusions about it.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,452

    Out of interest, as I was agog reading the warfare on here last night, one of my Labour mates sent me some screengrabs of one of the Momentum lot who came into and then left the Labour Party with Corbyn. No surprise, a major proponent of the Putin view of the world because Zelenskyy is "not allowing open democracy", and is "known to have ordered the killing of Russian speaking citizens of Ukraine like some sort of genocide"

    The trot left and the Trump/Farage alt-right are marching in lockstep. They both hate each other for ideological reasons yet are proudly speaking the same FUD for ideological reasons.

    Fascinating...

    The unifying character here is the desire to lick the boot of authority. Authoritarians will latch onto to whichever self appointed “strong leader” is most appealing at a given time & Putin fits the bill perfectly.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,953
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Attention please, ladies and gentlemen, I would like to call to order this meeting of the PB subcommittee, Naval Gun Turret Components, Civilian Uses Thereof.

    Taking the previous minutes as read, I now have a definitive answer to the Jodrell Bank question.

    The trunnion bearings that support the weight of the dish while allowing it to rotate around the horizontal axis were custom made for the job.

    The ring gears used to spin the dish around the same axis were salvaged from battleships.

    https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-the-inquisitive-giant-1957-online

    I don't know if you saw my (somewhat late) post on that topic, but the Russians 'used' turrets in their satellite comms station, e.g. one in Crimea.

    I heard a podcast that stated that the 'turrets' (more likely, I guess, components thereof) were from one of the Sovetsky Soyuz battleships the Russians started but never completed.

    It's hard to find firm evidence, but the following link has a piccie and the words "A rotating mechanism of the Pluton complex was reportedly fashioned out of submarine hulls and battleship turrets"

    https://www.russianspaceweb.com/kik_nip16.html

    Edit: and the original Jodrell Bank turned on bogies from a Castle Class. Allegedly...
    https://x.com/MrTimDunn/status/1339214594129137664?

    (That also states: "The telescope's motor system used gun turrets recycled from two navy battleships: HMS Revenge & HMS Royal Sovereign" )
    Hmmm. If by bogies they means the 'wheels' that run round the circular track, then the film I posted shows them being custom machined for the job. What is interesting in that post is the photo shows the dish inverted, which was a design feature that was lost when it was upgraded.
    Speaking of wheels, another step in Making Britain Great Again. Reports that the Spitfire is to go into full production next year are yet to be confirmed.

    https://x.com/RAFBBMF/status/1892599068351660246
    That's cool. I love the stuff a lot of these people managing heritage machines manage to do.

    (I do wonder if they were made to Imperial or Metric? One of the first things the guys doing the A1 Tornado project did, was to convert all their detailed drawings from Imperial to Metric. The reason being that there are declining numbers of manufacturers/fabricators who will deal with Imperial, and everything was easier if everything was in Metric.)
    Is that true?

    I thought the majority of aircraft are still imperial
    American Customary Units are not Imperial
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,981
    viewcode said:

    Man disguised as lawyer kills gang leader in court
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crknd1e86x4o

    Just goes to show very difficult to tell mobsters and lawyers apart.....

    Although sometimes there is a little rat of sunlight that cheers you up

    the gunman used a revolver which was smuggled in a hollowed-out book
    A revolver? Rather retro. Why not a semi-automatic? Was it for reliability?
    Need to be a big book to hide a semi!

    I miss my SA80
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,452

    So the government borrowing is...wait for....£12bn higher than forecast....another one of those £12bn blackholes.

    Good morning

    £118.2 billion so far this year !!!!!

    This is a seminal moment. The Government has assumed that if it puts taxes up people will just grumble and pay them not act. Anecdotal evidence suggested this time it is different. Now the anecdotal evidence has become real. The Government can no longer put up taxes and get the OBR to assume they will generate net new money. The cuts will need to start shortly or Sterling will begin to fall.

    It is interesting that the hope that Farage and Reform get in power maybe the only thing to save the UK economy from immediate collapse.
    They put up the wrong taxes.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,202
    F1: nichest of complaints, but I'm pretty sure the circuit page on the official F1 website used to have corner speeds on there. Hmm.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,151
    Foss said:

    Nigelb said:

    This will be fascinating, once fully available to the public.

    Historic England acquires collection featuring some of UK’s oldest photos
    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2025/feb/21/historic-england-acquires-collection-featuring-some-of-uks-oldest-photos

    Historic England already has a tremendous backlog of images that they’re slowly uploading to their site. It’s worth a periodic look to see what’s new - the last batch of Aerofilm images they uploaded had some lovely shots.
    I love the immediate postwar Aerofilms stuff.
    Aerial photography had matured to create fantastic quality, and the excess of pilots and aircraft enabled a large number of great photographs.

    A real window into our industrial past.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,957
    Phil said:

    Out of interest, as I was agog reading the warfare on here last night, one of my Labour mates sent me some screengrabs of one of the Momentum lot who came into and then left the Labour Party with Corbyn. No surprise, a major proponent of the Putin view of the world because Zelenskyy is "not allowing open democracy", and is "known to have ordered the killing of Russian speaking citizens of Ukraine like some sort of genocide"

    The trot left and the Trump/Farage alt-right are marching in lockstep. They both hate each other for ideological reasons yet are proudly speaking the same FUD for ideological reasons.

    Fascinating...

    The unifying character here is the desire to lick the boot of authority. Authoritarians will latch onto to whichever self appointed “strong leader” is most appealing at a given time & Putin fits the bill perfectly.
    They all want to break the British state to promote their revolutionary aims. Ironically precisely the sort of thing the Conservative Party was created to prevent.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,741

    Man disguised as lawyer kills gang leader in court
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crknd1e86x4o

    Just goes to show very difficult to tell mobsters and lawyers apart.....

    You're feeling bold this morning! Is someone distracting TSE?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,541
    Foxy said:

    Out of interest, as I was agog reading the warfare on here last night, one of my Labour mates sent me some screengrabs of one of the Momentum lot who came into and then left the Labour Party with Corbyn. No surprise, a major proponent of the Putin view of the world because Zelenskyy is "not allowing open democracy", and is "known to have ordered the killing of Russian speaking citizens of Ukraine like some sort of genocide"

    The trot left and the Trump/Farage alt-right are marching in lockstep. They both hate each other for ideological reasons yet are proudly speaking the same FUD for ideological reasons.

    Fascinating...

    It's a bit of a headscratcher. Zelensky is a native Russian speaker and only learned Ukranian as an adult.
    It's funny reading BBC articles from 2019. Lots of worries about Zelensky being a Russian puppet, and he did better in the Russian-speaking/eastern parts of Ukraine than he did elsewhere. He was also elected on an anti-corruption platform, and was pushing for a ceasefire in Donbas etc.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,151
    Attention all Grok users... Its reliability may not be long lived.

    FYI, @elonmusk , read this as well.

    "WHO ARE THE TOP FIVE PEOPLE or GROUPS SPREADING DISINFORMATION on X?"

    You, @elonmusk , are #1

    https://x.com/SiljaLynx/status/1892707418276008064
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,628
    Nigelb said:

    I see The Spectator proves it is full of bellends doing Putin's work.

    The cruellest thing about Trump vs Zelensky? Trump’s right

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-cruellest-thing-about-trump-vs-zelensky-trumps-right/

    I can't be bothered to read the article.
    Do they given a reason ?
    They do. Trump owning the libs is not just more important than anything else. It's the only thing that matters.
  • This is clever by Starmer, because eventually someone will take this to the courts as age discrimination and we will have free movement back.

    Britain is to offer European countries an “Australian-style” youth mobility scheme as part of Sir Keir Starmer’s reset with Brussels, The Times understands.

    Under a plan to be tabled by British negotiators, tens of thousands of young EU workers and students would be able to come to the UK to live and work for two years, with the possibility of a one-year extension.

    The reciprocal scheme would allow young Britons, aged 18-30, similar access to countries in the European Union.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/britain-to-offer-eu-youth-mobility-scheme-fh0dkh95w

    Europe being allowed to export its unemployed again will not prove a vote winner for anyone but Farage.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,031
    edited February 21


    I miss my SA80

    I don't fucking miss mine. The firing pin broke on it and we had no spares so I threw it in the Shatt Al Arab. I then bought an M4 off a heavily indebted USN combat medic with the heavy duty "SOCOM" barrel. That was an unparalleled implement of wilful murder and I wish I still had it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,438
    kjh said:

    So there's an explanation why Badenoch is bad at PMQs, from another PB.

    Cardinal Sins. It's a Tucci subject

    Stanley Tucci would never have survived in the round the clock work schedule those actual Conclave cardinals are beholden to.

    The production team on his Italian cooking show are beginning to complain about working with him.

    His favourite diva-ish demand is that he really doesn't want to be on set after lunch.

    Very Mediterranean of him.

    Kemi Badenoch sounds like she's the reverse Tucci. Disgruntled aides are gossiping round the Westminster watering holes that she really doesn't like being asked to do much before lunch.

    Saw Conclave last night. Really enjoyed it, although I was so close to the screen I could have been casting votes for the pope myself.

    I was surprised that there haven't been complaints here or by Trump that is woke. Maybe it has and I haven't noticed.
    It’s not that it’s woke, it’s more that it’s fucking terrible

    Good acting, great cinematography, but only an imbecile would call it a fine, Oscar-worthy movie

    It has possibly the most comically absurd ending in the history of Hollywood
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,184
    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:

    Out of interest, as I was agog reading the warfare on here last night, one of my Labour mates sent me some screengrabs of one of the Momentum lot who came into and then left the Labour Party with Corbyn. No surprise, a major proponent of the Putin view of the world because Zelenskyy is "not allowing open democracy", and is "known to have ordered the killing of Russian speaking citizens of Ukraine like some sort of genocide"

    The trot left and the Trump/Farage alt-right are marching in lockstep. They both hate each other for ideological reasons yet are proudly speaking the same FUD for ideological reasons.

    Fascinating...

    It's a bit of a headscratcher. Zelensky is a native Russian speaker and only learned Ukranian as an adult.
    It's funny reading BBC articles from 2019. Lots of worries about Zelensky being a Russian puppet, and he did better in the Russian-speaking/eastern parts of Ukraine than he did elsewhere. He was also elected on an anti-corruption platform, and was pushing for a ceasefire in Donbas etc.
    Zelenssky started his comedy career with the Russian satirical show KVN, a sort of cross between Saturday Night Live and Britain's Got Talent, and for some years was based in Moscow. Often his sketches sanitised Ukranian politicians.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,452
    edited February 21
    (Deleted ... I think we’ve done this one before.)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,953

    viewcode said:

    Man disguised as lawyer kills gang leader in court
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crknd1e86x4o

    Just goes to show very difficult to tell mobsters and lawyers apart.....

    Although sometimes there is a little rat of sunlight that cheers you up

    the gunman used a revolver which was smuggled in a hollowed-out book
    A revolver? Rather retro. Why not a semi-automatic? Was it for reliability?
    Need to be a big book to hide a semi!

    I miss my SA80
    {narrator - The police failed to equity why someone would bring a Folio edition of Lies Of Vladimir Putin into a court room. The fact that it had an SA80 hidden in it was almost inevitable.}
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,130

    Sean_F said:

    GB News proves it is full of bellends doing Putin's work.



    In particular, the claim she makes about Putin sending in "so few troops" really does take the biscuit.

    The UK government estimates Putin has lost more than 750,000 troops in Ukraine. That's around half of Russia's total fighting strength.

    But yes, very few...


    https://x.com/HarryYorke1/status/1892593052788605194

    My enemy’s enemy is my friend is a completely stupid political outlook.

    Supporting Putin, because he’s illiberal is as reprehensible and stupid as supporting him because he’s anti-Western.
    Elsewhere, I've seen people praising Putin because he's 'anti-woke'...
    It's always bizarre latching onto one feature of a person or party and then excusing all else they do because that singular 'virtue' outshines everything.

    A certain man with a toothbrush moustache was nice to his secretaries. But that didn't make him a good person. Nero tolerated satirists mocking him, but that didn't make him a good emperor.

    It's alarming to see so many be so soft on Putin, to the extent of blaming the nation invaded rather than the tyrant invading.
    I think it shows the desparation with the political culture in the UK and west generally. Wokeness is a frustration to many and deeply hated by them.
    It shows that many of the "anti woke" are attracted to authoritarian messaging and are targeted on social media with Kremlin talking points, which they slavishly consume and repeat like the useful idiots they are.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,202
    Quick reminder, if anyone wants to let me know their Twitter address and be added to the PB lifeboat list in case the Online Censorious Puritan Act causes problems (so we can more rapidly reconstitute the membership elsewhere), just let me know.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,578

    Man disguised as lawyer kills gang leader in court
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crknd1e86x4o

    Just goes to show very difficult to tell mobsters and lawyers apart.....

    Although sometimes there is a little rat of sunlight that cheers you up

    the gunman used a revolver which was smuggled in a hollowed-out book
    "a little rat of sunlight"

    Oh, the joys of t and y being next to each other on the keyboard!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,953
    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:

    Out of interest, as I was agog reading the warfare on here last night, one of my Labour mates sent me some screengrabs of one of the Momentum lot who came into and then left the Labour Party with Corbyn. No surprise, a major proponent of the Putin view of the world because Zelenskyy is "not allowing open democracy", and is "known to have ordered the killing of Russian speaking citizens of Ukraine like some sort of genocide"

    The trot left and the Trump/Farage alt-right are marching in lockstep. They both hate each other for ideological reasons yet are proudly speaking the same FUD for ideological reasons.

    Fascinating...

    It's a bit of a headscratcher. Zelensky is a native Russian speaker and only learned Ukranian as an adult.
    It's funny reading BBC articles from 2019. Lots of worries about Zelensky being a Russian puppet, and he did better in the Russian-speaking/eastern parts of Ukraine than he did elsewhere. He was also elected on an anti-corruption platform, and was pushing for a ceasefire in Donbas etc.
    Zelenssky started his comedy career with the Russian satirical show KVN, a sort of cross between Saturday Night Live and Britain's Got Talent, and for some years was based in Moscow. Often his sketches sanitised Ukranian politicians.
    The cherry on top was the TV series where Zelensky plays a school teacher whose rant against government corruption and stupidity is sent viral by one of his pupils.

    He ends up president of Ukraine.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,086

    This is clever by Starmer, because eventually someone will take this to the courts as age discrimination and we will have free movement back.

    Britain is to offer European countries an “Australian-style” youth mobility scheme as part of Sir Keir Starmer’s reset with Brussels, The Times understands.

    Under a plan to be tabled by British negotiators, tens of thousands of young EU workers and students would be able to come to the UK to live and work for two years, with the possibility of a one-year extension.

    The reciprocal scheme would allow young Britons, aged 18-30, similar access to countries in the European Union.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/britain-to-offer-eu-youth-mobility-scheme-fh0dkh95w

    Europe being allowed to export its unemployed again will not prove a vote winner for anyone but Farage.
    I think it’s a great scheme and a no brainer, hopefully coming into place just as my eldest son reaches the qualifying age to make use of
    it.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,607

    This is clever by Starmer, because eventually someone will take this to the courts as age discrimination and we will have free movement back.

    Britain is to offer European countries an “Australian-style” youth mobility scheme as part of Sir Keir Starmer’s reset with Brussels, The Times understands.

    Under a plan to be tabled by British negotiators, tens of thousands of young EU workers and students would be able to come to the UK to live and work for two years, with the possibility of a one-year extension.

    The reciprocal scheme would allow young Britons, aged 18-30, similar access to countries in the European Union.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/britain-to-offer-eu-youth-mobility-scheme-fh0dkh95w

    Europe being allowed to export its unemployed again will not prove a vote winner for anyone but Farage.
    You mean people who often do jobs many Brit’s don’t want to do . Does Farage want the other youth mobility schemes scrapped ?

    An EU youth scheme would be a big boost to hospitality as many can’t open fully as they don’t have sufficient staff . The chavs moaning about people taking their jobs are full of crxp as they sit on benefits popping out babies at an alarming rate .
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,806
    Jonathan said:

    Phil said:

    Out of interest, as I was agog reading the warfare on here last night, one of my Labour mates sent me some screengrabs of one of the Momentum lot who came into and then left the Labour Party with Corbyn. No surprise, a major proponent of the Putin view of the world because Zelenskyy is "not allowing open democracy", and is "known to have ordered the killing of Russian speaking citizens of Ukraine like some sort of genocide"

    The trot left and the Trump/Farage alt-right are marching in lockstep. They both hate each other for ideological reasons yet are proudly speaking the same FUD for ideological reasons.

    Fascinating...

    The unifying character here is the desire to lick the boot of authority. Authoritarians will latch onto to whichever self appointed “strong leader” is most appealing at a given time & Putin fits the bill perfectly.
    They all want to break the British state to promote their revolutionary aims. Ironically precisely the sort of thing the Conservative Party was created to prevent.
    Not at all. All Reform would do is restore the pre-Blairite constitutional settlement when life was far better. Blair's changes were far reaching and enormously damaging.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,628
    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:

    Out of interest, as I was agog reading the warfare on here last night, one of my Labour mates sent me some screengrabs of one of the Momentum lot who came into and then left the Labour Party with Corbyn. No surprise, a major proponent of the Putin view of the world because Zelenskyy is "not allowing open democracy", and is "known to have ordered the killing of Russian speaking citizens of Ukraine like some sort of genocide"

    The trot left and the Trump/Farage alt-right are marching in lockstep. They both hate each other for ideological reasons yet are proudly speaking the same FUD for ideological reasons.

    Fascinating...

    It's a bit of a headscratcher. Zelensky is a native Russian speaker and only learned Ukranian as an adult.
    It's funny reading BBC articles from 2019. Lots of worries about Zelensky being a Russian puppet, and he did better in the Russian-speaking/eastern parts of Ukraine than he did elsewhere. He was also elected on an anti-corruption platform, and was pushing for a ceasefire in Donbas etc.
    Zelensky was a very poor president prior to the invasion, in the pocket of one the main Ukrainian oligarchs. I don't think anyone would have predicted he would be a great war leader.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,906
    Dura_Ace said:


    I miss my SA80

    I don't fucking miss mine. The firing pin broke on it and we had no spares so I threw it in the Shatt Al Arab. I then bought an M4 off a heavily indebted USN combat medic with the heavy duty "SOCOM" barrel. That was an unparalleled implement of wilful murder and I wish I still had it.
    Could have been worse - could have used the cadet version GPR, absolute pile of crap. Even worse as a left hander having to manually cock it to reload so I had to learn to shoot as a right hander for timed events in competitions like Pringle Trophy as reaching over and reloading it between shots completely impractical.

  • Sean_F said:

    GB News proves it is full of bellends doing Putin's work.



    In particular, the claim she makes about Putin sending in "so few troops" really does take the biscuit.

    The UK government estimates Putin has lost more than 750,000 troops in Ukraine. That's around half of Russia's total fighting strength.

    But yes, very few...


    https://x.com/HarryYorke1/status/1892593052788605194

    My enemy’s enemy is my friend is a completely stupid political outlook.

    Supporting Putin, because he’s illiberal is as reprehensible and stupid as supporting him because he’s anti-Western.
    Elsewhere, I've seen people praising Putin because he's 'anti-woke'...
    It's always bizarre latching onto one feature of a person or party and then excusing all else they do because that singular 'virtue' outshines everything.

    A certain man with a toothbrush moustache was nice to his secretaries. But that didn't make him a good person. Nero tolerated satirists mocking him, but that didn't make him a good emperor.

    It's alarming to see so many be so soft on Putin, to the extent of blaming the nation invaded rather than the tyrant invading.
    I think it shows the desparation with the political culture in the UK and west generally. Wokeness is a frustration to many and deeply hated by them.
    It shows that many of the "anti woke" are attracted to authoritarian messaging and are targeted on social media with Kremlin talking points, which they slavishly consume and repeat like the useful idiots they are.
    Its both.

    Likewise the generational inequality in the West has created fertile ground for other people who are attracted to authoritarianism to be targeted on social media.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,031
    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:

    Out of interest, as I was agog reading the warfare on here last night, one of my Labour mates sent me some screengrabs of one of the Momentum lot who came into and then left the Labour Party with Corbyn. No surprise, a major proponent of the Putin view of the world because Zelenskyy is "not allowing open democracy", and is "known to have ordered the killing of Russian speaking citizens of Ukraine like some sort of genocide"

    The trot left and the Trump/Farage alt-right are marching in lockstep. They both hate each other for ideological reasons yet are proudly speaking the same FUD for ideological reasons.

    Fascinating...

    It's a bit of a headscratcher. Zelensky is a native Russian speaker and only learned Ukranian as an adult.
    It's funny reading BBC articles from 2019. Lots of worries about Zelensky being a Russian puppet, and he did better in the Russian-speaking/eastern parts of Ukraine than he did elsewhere. He was also elected on an anti-corruption platform, and was pushing for a ceasefire in Donbas etc.
    Z was elected on a platform of normalising relations with Russia and stamping out corruption. Epic fail on both scores. However, I think he'd be in with a fighting chance in an election as the opposition would obviously be The Chocolate King who is a known and not much liked quantity. Zaluzhny and Klitschko don't have the media owning oligarch backing which is essential to get anywhere in Ukrainian politics. Z doesn't need oligarch backing as he is one now. That's why he's dispensed with and locked up Kolomoisky who was so instrumental in propelling Z into the Marinisky Palace.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,202
    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:

    Out of interest, as I was agog reading the warfare on here last night, one of my Labour mates sent me some screengrabs of one of the Momentum lot who came into and then left the Labour Party with Corbyn. No surprise, a major proponent of the Putin view of the world because Zelenskyy is "not allowing open democracy", and is "known to have ordered the killing of Russian speaking citizens of Ukraine like some sort of genocide"

    The trot left and the Trump/Farage alt-right are marching in lockstep. They both hate each other for ideological reasons yet are proudly speaking the same FUD for ideological reasons.

    Fascinating...

    It's a bit of a headscratcher. Zelensky is a native Russian speaker and only learned Ukranian as an adult.
    It's funny reading BBC articles from 2019. Lots of worries about Zelensky being a Russian puppet, and he did better in the Russian-speaking/eastern parts of Ukraine than he did elsewhere. He was also elected on an anti-corruption platform, and was pushing for a ceasefire in Donbas etc.
    Zelensky was a very poor president prior to the invasion, in the pocket of one the main Ukrainian oligarchs. I don't think anyone would have predicted he would be a great war leader.
    Julian the Apostate was selected to be Caesar with responsibility for defending Gaul largely because pretty much every other male relative of the emperor had been killed. At the time, Julian was an academic. Turned out to be surprisingly good at his job.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,593

    Sean_F said:

    GB News proves it is full of bellends doing Putin's work.



    In particular, the claim she makes about Putin sending in "so few troops" really does take the biscuit.

    The UK government estimates Putin has lost more than 750,000 troops in Ukraine. That's around half of Russia's total fighting strength.

    But yes, very few...


    https://x.com/HarryYorke1/status/1892593052788605194

    My enemy’s enemy is my friend is a completely stupid political outlook.

    Supporting Putin, because he’s illiberal is as reprehensible and stupid as supporting him because he’s anti-Western.
    Elsewhere, I've seen people praising Putin because he's 'anti-woke'...
    It's always bizarre latching onto one feature of a person or party and then excusing all else they do because that singular 'virtue' outshines everything.

    A certain man with a toothbrush moustache was nice to his secretaries. But that didn't make him a good person. Nero tolerated satirists mocking him, but that didn't make him a good emperor.

    It's alarming to see so many be so soft on Putin, to the extent of blaming the nation invaded rather than the tyrant invading.
    I think it shows the desparation with the political culture in the UK and west generally. Wokeness is a frustration to many and deeply hated by them.
    It shows that many of the "anti woke" are attracted to authoritarian messaging and are targeted on social media with Kremlin talking points, which they slavishly consume and repeat like the useful idiots they are.
    Its both.

    Likewise the generational inequality in the West has created fertile ground for other people who are attracted to authoritarianism to be targeted on social media.
    Although it's not the inequality between the top and the bottom that's the problem but the compression of the middle, so neither taxing 'the rich' nor redestribution to benefit the poor fixes it.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,620
    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Last night got nasty. We're just a (mostly) British politics site. Imagine how nasty this is going to get for the people who are directly impacted by Trump and Trumpism.

    Some people will like Trump and Trumpism because he's for something they want - a return to the good old days, a fat tax cut for the people who have brainwashed them etc. For others its because he's against the things they are against - fags, women, non-whites. For a minority, they're on board because they have a shared enemy. As we witnessed last night.

    As we saw with Brexit, when the goal is contradictory and ill-defined, you can't possibly keep everyone happy, whether they support you or not. The irrationality hoops some people are going to be asked to jump through will literally send them mad. And the greatest show of all - the fallout when Trump throws Musk overboard. That will be some show...

    Yes it did get tetchy and I come here less and less of an evening as a consequence.I doubt people care a great deal. From my view it won’t get any better. Ever since Trump won there are a hardcore who cannot accept it and the language is incendiary and inflammatory. Even yours in your post using terms like ‘brainwashed’.

    People just cannot accept people vote for someone or a party they don’t like for positive reasons. We see it with Reform too.

    This group is largely full of entitled, well off, middle class white, middle aged, white men who sneer at the underclass and anyone who dares to dissent from their world view. The poor are fools for not seeing Angela Rayner as a working class hero and voting against their own interests if they vote for someone they don’t like.

    Fuck them.

    The likes of Leon and Dura Ace still make this place worth reading.
    FPT because I want to add some context to my use of the word "brainwashed"

    There are a sizeable group of people who profess to dislike being told what to do and what to think. They blame the thing whose name has evolved over time - political correctness, woke, BLM, the blob. Whatever you call it, there is definitely - they say - a push to make everyone think the same and they won't stand for it.

    I say brainwashed because these same "you can't tell me what to think or what to say" angry people then all parrot the exact same fact-free FUD. FUD is fear, uncertainty & doubt. At times this is at least rooted in a basis of fact which is then heavily manipulated or openly warped. At other times its literal demonstrable lies.

    These people are brainwashed. Gaslit. Lied to. Manipulated. Call it what you want. To make them angry so that they will behave in - and vote - in a certain way. They're right that there is a movement trying to push everyone to say and think the same. Its just that they are the targets and they are the people complying.

    This *is* brainwashing. There's chunks of it on the left (c.f. trots now backing Putin because he's the enemy of the enemies of Corbyn), and chunks of it on the right where we have weaponised ignorance manipulated to provoke literal riots last summer.
    The term may be disputed, but we're all influenced by our regular sources of news etc. And when people suddenly flip positions and parrot uniform reasoning despite not wanting to be told what to do, well its obvious.

    Conversely this is why i like people like luckyguy despite very often disagreeing with his conclusions, as my impression is he is consistent and has thought through his positions and doesn't shy away from them.
    Agreed. But in general we try to pigeonhole people into reliable supporters of X, and real people are often harder to categorise. PB is valuable because it offers a space where people can explore their opinions without being abused (much). Disagreeing with the ideas is fine, but one shouldn't slag off individuals because they've reached different conclusions. It sometimes just makes them interesting.

    Partly because I used to be a professional politician, I'm used to interactng with people who disagree without either pretending to agree with them or slagging them off personally. Otherwise you end up with a set of echo chambers where everyone agrees and is bewildered when the world moves differently.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,957
    edited February 21

    Jonathan said:

    Phil said:

    Out of interest, as I was agog reading the warfare on here last night, one of my Labour mates sent me some screengrabs of one of the Momentum lot who came into and then left the Labour Party with Corbyn. No surprise, a major proponent of the Putin view of the world because Zelenskyy is "not allowing open democracy", and is "known to have ordered the killing of Russian speaking citizens of Ukraine like some sort of genocide"

    The trot left and the Trump/Farage alt-right are marching in lockstep. They both hate each other for ideological reasons yet are proudly speaking the same FUD for ideological reasons.

    Fascinating...

    The unifying character here is the desire to lick the boot of authority. Authoritarians will latch onto to whichever self appointed “strong leader” is most appealing at a given time & Putin fits the bill perfectly.
    They all want to break the British state to promote their revolutionary aims. Ironically precisely the sort of thing the Conservative Party was created to prevent.
    Not at all. All Reform would do is restore the pre-Blairite constitutional settlement when life was far better. Blair's changes were far reaching and enormously damaging.
    Such a load of old cobblers. I guess you want us back in the EU, restore section 28, end civil partnerships, restart conflict in NI and to close the devolved assemblies and sack the mayors.

    The revolutionary right want a far reaching Maga disruption. Putin smiles.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,086

    Jonathan said:

    Phil said:

    Out of interest, as I was agog reading the warfare on here last night, one of my Labour mates sent me some screengrabs of one of the Momentum lot who came into and then left the Labour Party with Corbyn. No surprise, a major proponent of the Putin view of the world because Zelenskyy is "not allowing open democracy", and is "known to have ordered the killing of Russian speaking citizens of Ukraine like some sort of genocide"

    The trot left and the Trump/Farage alt-right are marching in lockstep. They both hate each other for ideological reasons yet are proudly speaking the same FUD for ideological reasons.

    Fascinating...

    The unifying character here is the desire to lick the boot of authority. Authoritarians will latch onto to whichever self appointed “strong leader” is most appealing at a given time & Putin fits the bill perfectly.
    They all want to break the British state to promote their revolutionary aims. Ironically precisely the sort of thing the Conservative Party was created to prevent.
    Not at all. All Reform would do is restore the pre-Blairite constitutional settlement when life was far better. Blair's changes were far reaching and enormously damaging.
    What do you mean by pre-Blairite constitutional settlement? He did a lot on the constitution but reversing most of the ones I can think of would surely be either near-impossible or very esoteric?

    - Scottish and Welsh devolution
    - Good Friday agreement
    - abolishing (most) hereditary peers
    - Supreme Court and judicial appointments committee

    The only 2 that seem to chime with the Reform position would be the human rights act, which was repeatedly slated for scrapping under the Tories then abandoned, and the Lisbon Treaty which is irrelevant now given we’ve left the EU.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,613
    Dura_Ace said:

    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:

    Out of interest, as I was agog reading the warfare on here last night, one of my Labour mates sent me some screengrabs of one of the Momentum lot who came into and then left the Labour Party with Corbyn. No surprise, a major proponent of the Putin view of the world because Zelenskyy is "not allowing open democracy", and is "known to have ordered the killing of Russian speaking citizens of Ukraine like some sort of genocide"

    The trot left and the Trump/Farage alt-right are marching in lockstep. They both hate each other for ideological reasons yet are proudly speaking the same FUD for ideological reasons.

    Fascinating...

    It's a bit of a headscratcher. Zelensky is a native Russian speaker and only learned Ukranian as an adult.
    It's funny reading BBC articles from 2019. Lots of worries about Zelensky being a Russian puppet, and he did better in the Russian-speaking/eastern parts of Ukraine than he did elsewhere. He was also elected on an anti-corruption platform, and was pushing for a ceasefire in Donbas etc.
    Z was elected on a platform of normalising relations with Russia and stamping out corruption. Epic fail on both scores. However, I think he'd be in with a fighting chance in an election as the opposition would obviously be The Chocolate King who is a known and not much liked quantity. Zaluzhny and Klitschko don't have the media owning oligarch backing which is essential to get anywhere in Ukrainian politics. Z doesn't need oligarch backing as he is one now. That's why he's dispensed with and locked up Kolomoisky who was so instrumental in propelling Z into the Marinisky Palace.
    I assume you've got good linkies to support all of that? ;)
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,803

    Jonathan said:

    Phil said:

    Out of interest, as I was agog reading the warfare on here last night, one of my Labour mates sent me some screengrabs of one of the Momentum lot who came into and then left the Labour Party with Corbyn. No surprise, a major proponent of the Putin view of the world because Zelenskyy is "not allowing open democracy", and is "known to have ordered the killing of Russian speaking citizens of Ukraine like some sort of genocide"

    The trot left and the Trump/Farage alt-right are marching in lockstep. They both hate each other for ideological reasons yet are proudly speaking the same FUD for ideological reasons.

    Fascinating...

    The unifying character here is the desire to lick the boot of authority. Authoritarians will latch onto to whichever self appointed “strong leader” is most appealing at a given time & Putin fits the bill perfectly.
    They all want to break the British state to promote their revolutionary aims. Ironically precisely the sort of thing the Conservative Party was created to prevent.
    Not at all. All Reform would do is restore the pre-Blairite constitutional settlement when life was far better. Blair's changes were far reaching and enormously damaging.
    So naive
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,631
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Phil said:

    Out of interest, as I was agog reading the warfare on here last night, one of my Labour mates sent me some screengrabs of one of the Momentum lot who came into and then left the Labour Party with Corbyn. No surprise, a major proponent of the Putin view of the world because Zelenskyy is "not allowing open democracy", and is "known to have ordered the killing of Russian speaking citizens of Ukraine like some sort of genocide"

    The trot left and the Trump/Farage alt-right are marching in lockstep. They both hate each other for ideological reasons yet are proudly speaking the same FUD for ideological reasons.

    Fascinating...

    The unifying character here is the desire to lick the boot of authority. Authoritarians will latch onto to whichever self appointed “strong leader” is most appealing at a given time & Putin fits the bill perfectly.
    They all want to break the British state to promote their revolutionary aims. Ironically precisely the sort of thing the Conservative Party was created to prevent.
    Not at all. All Reform would do is restore the pre-Blairite constitutional settlement when life was far better. Blair's changes were far reaching and enormously damaging.
    Such a load of old cobblers. I guess you want us back in the EU, restore section 28, end civil partnerships, restart conflict in NI and to close the devolved assemblies and sack the mayors.

    The revolutionary right want a far reaching Maga disruption. Putin smiles.
    Reform are certainly anti the new unitaries and Mayors and not that keen on devolution either.

    Though Farage does want an elected upper house to replace the House of Lords and agrees with the LDs and SNP and Greens more than Labour and the Tories on that
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,108
    TimS said:

    This is clever by Starmer, because eventually someone will take this to the courts as age discrimination and we will have free movement back.

    Britain is to offer European countries an “Australian-style” youth mobility scheme as part of Sir Keir Starmer’s reset with Brussels, The Times understands.

    Under a plan to be tabled by British negotiators, tens of thousands of young EU workers and students would be able to come to the UK to live and work for two years, with the possibility of a one-year extension.

    The reciprocal scheme would allow young Britons, aged 18-30, similar access to countries in the European Union.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/britain-to-offer-eu-youth-mobility-scheme-fh0dkh95w

    Europe being allowed to export its unemployed again will not prove a vote winner for anyone but Farage.
    I think it’s a great scheme and a no brainer, hopefully coming into place just as my eldest son reaches the qualifying age to make use of
    it.
    I suspect one of my grandchildren would take advantage of it. And another, who is off to Australia on their 2 year work visa programme shortly, would have too.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,491

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I like the Madonna theme tune - she should have stuck to her lane.

    Talking of...

    @Madonna

    I thought this country was built by
    Europeans, escaping living under the rule of a King, to establish a New World governed by the people.
    Currently we have a president who calls Himself.
    Our King
    If this is a joke,
    I'm not laughing

    https://x.com/Madonna/status/1892742153261990189
    She's been a bit rubbish since she left the UK.
    And can she not do that stupid Leon thing of leaving off the full stops, it's very aging.
    FYI for certain people putting a full stop and the end of a txt is a rude, aggressive act!.?
    Really? I thought punctuation in texts had had a bit of a revival, when autocomplete led to less use of abbreviation and emoji use, so assumed full stops would be back in.
    I was told off as work for adding a full stop to Slack messages . People seem to think the key is hit with rage. I politely told them to “piss off.”
    That's the spirit.
    Once had a row with an author over the position of the "period" before or after the close quotes. She was, of course, "American." I, on the other hand, am "British".
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,631
    nico67 said:

    This is clever by Starmer, because eventually someone will take this to the courts as age discrimination and we will have free movement back.

    Britain is to offer European countries an “Australian-style” youth mobility scheme as part of Sir Keir Starmer’s reset with Brussels, The Times understands.

    Under a plan to be tabled by British negotiators, tens of thousands of young EU workers and students would be able to come to the UK to live and work for two years, with the possibility of a one-year extension.

    The reciprocal scheme would allow young Britons, aged 18-30, similar access to countries in the European Union.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/britain-to-offer-eu-youth-mobility-scheme-fh0dkh95w

    Europe being allowed to export its unemployed again will not prove a vote winner for anyone but Farage.
    You mean people who often do jobs many Brit’s don’t want to do . Does Farage want the other youth mobility schemes scrapped ?

    An EU youth scheme would be a big boost to hospitality as many can’t open fully as they don’t have sufficient staff . The chavs moaning about people taking their jobs are full of crxp as they sit on benefits popping out babies at an alarming rate .
    They aren't popping out enough babies is more of the problem, unemployment is still low
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,953
    edited February 21
    nico67 said:

    This is clever by Starmer, because eventually someone will take this to the courts as age discrimination and we will have free movement back.

    Britain is to offer European countries an “Australian-style” youth mobility scheme as part of Sir Keir Starmer’s reset with Brussels, The Times understands.

    Under a plan to be tabled by British negotiators, tens of thousands of young EU workers and students would be able to come to the UK to live and work for two years, with the possibility of a one-year extension.

    The reciprocal scheme would allow young Britons, aged 18-30, similar access to countries in the European Union.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/britain-to-offer-eu-youth-mobility-scheme-fh0dkh95w

    Europe being allowed to export its unemployed again will not prove a vote winner for anyone but Farage.
    You mean people who often do jobs many Brit’s don’t want to do . Does Farage want the other youth mobility schemes scrapped ?

    An EU youth scheme would be a big boost to hospitality as many can’t open fully as they don’t have sufficient staff . The chavs moaning about people taking their jobs are full of crxp as they sit on benefits popping out babies at an alarming rate .
    Reverse racism is alway entertaining. I’m quite sure that if someone made similar cracks about immigrant workers, you’d be up in arms.

    The birth rate is falling in this country. It’s largely sustained by first generation immigrants from poorer countries. It takes about 2-3 generations for the birth rate of immigrants to match a lower rate in their new country. Though it drops off massively after the first generation.

    Fucking facts, eh?
  • nico67 said:

    This is clever by Starmer, because eventually someone will take this to the courts as age discrimination and we will have free movement back.

    Britain is to offer European countries an “Australian-style” youth mobility scheme as part of Sir Keir Starmer’s reset with Brussels, The Times understands.

    Under a plan to be tabled by British negotiators, tens of thousands of young EU workers and students would be able to come to the UK to live and work for two years, with the possibility of a one-year extension.

    The reciprocal scheme would allow young Britons, aged 18-30, similar access to countries in the European Union.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/britain-to-offer-eu-youth-mobility-scheme-fh0dkh95w

    Europe being allowed to export its unemployed again will not prove a vote winner for anyone but Farage.
    You mean people who often do jobs many Brit’s don’t want to do . Does Farage want the other youth mobility schemes scrapped ?

    An EU youth scheme would be a big boost to hospitality as many can’t open fully as they don’t have sufficient staff . The chavs moaning about people taking their jobs are full of crxp as they sit on benefits popping out babies at an alarming rate .
    So you're saying that the half million net immigration predicted each year for the next decade isn't enough ?

    Well I suppose if aimlessly wandering around northern town centres is a job which needs doing we've got plenty of Europeans doing that already.

    And putting downward pressure on the wages of the young and upward pressure on house prices is guaranteed to increase still further generational inequality.

    Labour's economic strategy - make the rich richer by making the young poorer.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,628

    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:

    Out of interest, as I was agog reading the warfare on here last night, one of my Labour mates sent me some screengrabs of one of the Momentum lot who came into and then left the Labour Party with Corbyn. No surprise, a major proponent of the Putin view of the world because Zelenskyy is "not allowing open democracy", and is "known to have ordered the killing of Russian speaking citizens of Ukraine like some sort of genocide"

    The trot left and the Trump/Farage alt-right are marching in lockstep. They both hate each other for ideological reasons yet are proudly speaking the same FUD for ideological reasons.

    Fascinating...

    It's a bit of a headscratcher. Zelensky is a native Russian speaker and only learned Ukranian as an adult.
    It's funny reading BBC articles from 2019. Lots of worries about Zelensky being a Russian puppet, and he did better in the Russian-speaking/eastern parts of Ukraine than he did elsewhere. He was also elected on an anti-corruption platform, and was pushing for a ceasefire in Donbas etc.
    Zelensky was a very poor president prior to the invasion, in the pocket of one the main Ukrainian oligarchs. I don't think anyone would have predicted he would be a great war leader.
    Churchill would have been a minor historical figure were it not for being the right man in the right place in 1940.
    True but I think you could have imagined Churchill acting as he did during WW2 prior to those events.Zelensky was a weak president even by the low standards of Ukrainian governance. This is not to take away from his achievement but to say it was a surprising one.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,631
    kjh said:

    So there's an explanation why Badenoch is bad at PMQs, from another PB.

    Cardinal Sins. It's a Tucci subject

    Stanley Tucci would never have survived in the round the clock work schedule those actual Conclave cardinals are beholden to.

    The production team on his Italian cooking show are beginning to complain about working with him.

    His favourite diva-ish demand is that he really doesn't want to be on set after lunch.

    Very Mediterranean of him.

    Kemi Badenoch sounds like she's the reverse Tucci. Disgruntled aides are gossiping round the Westminster watering holes that she really doesn't like being asked to do much before lunch.

    Saw Conclave last night. Really enjoyed it, although I was so close to the screen I could have been casting votes for the pope myself.

    I was surprised that there haven't been complaints here or by Trump that is woke. Maybe it has and I haven't noticed.
    It's a bit, if it wasn't the conservative Italian or Nigerian would have become Pope not the liberal Afghan who was born female
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,953
    edited February 21

    nico67 said:

    This is clever by Starmer, because eventually someone will take this to the courts as age discrimination and we will have free movement back.

    Britain is to offer European countries an “Australian-style” youth mobility scheme as part of Sir Keir Starmer’s reset with Brussels, The Times understands.

    Under a plan to be tabled by British negotiators, tens of thousands of young EU workers and students would be able to come to the UK to live and work for two years, with the possibility of a one-year extension.

    The reciprocal scheme would allow young Britons, aged 18-30, similar access to countries in the European Union.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/britain-to-offer-eu-youth-mobility-scheme-fh0dkh95w

    Europe being allowed to export its unemployed again will not prove a vote winner for anyone but Farage.
    You mean people who often do jobs many Brit’s don’t want to do . Does Farage want the other youth mobility schemes scrapped ?

    An EU youth scheme would be a big boost to hospitality as many can’t open fully as they don’t have sufficient staff . The chavs moaning about people taking their jobs are full of crxp as they sit on benefits popping out babies at an alarming rate .
    So you're saying that the half million net immigration predicted each year for the next decade isn't enough ?

    Well I suppose if aimlessly wandering around northern town centres is a job which needs doing we've got plenty of Europeans doing that already.

    And putting downward pressure on the wages of the young and upward pressure on house prices is guaranteed to increase still further generational inequality.

    Labour's economic strategy - make the rich richer by making the young poorer.
    But the local unemployed are Lazy Chav Scum Racist Shit Untermensch.

    The EU migrants will be noble, Aryan, blonde, Übermensch. Who will Heroically! Toil! In! The! Fields!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,151
    FF43 said:

    Nigelb said:

    I see The Spectator proves it is full of bellends doing Putin's work.

    The cruellest thing about Trump vs Zelensky? Trump’s right

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-cruellest-thing-about-trump-vs-zelensky-trumps-right/

    I can't be bothered to read the article.
    Do they given a reason ?
    They do. Trump owning the libs is not just more important than anything else. It's the only thing that matters.
    Ok, the usual idiocy.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,438

    viewcode said:

    Man disguised as lawyer kills gang leader in court
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crknd1e86x4o

    Just goes to show very difficult to tell mobsters and lawyers apart.....

    Although sometimes there is a little rat of sunlight that cheers you up

    the gunman used a revolver which was smuggled in a hollowed-out book
    A revolver? Rather retro. Why not a semi-automatic? Was it for reliability?
    Need to be a big book to hide a semi!

    I miss my SA80
    Shouldn't that be you miss with your SA80?

    (ducks)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,631

    So the government borrowing is...wait for....£12bn higher than forecast....another one of those £12bn blackholes.

    Good morning

    £118.2 billion so far this year !!!!!

    This is a seminal moment. The Government has assumed that if it puts taxes up people will just grumble and pay them not act. Anecdotal evidence suggested this time it is different. Now the anecdotal evidence has become real. The Government can no longer put up taxes and get the OBR to assume they will generate net new money. The cuts will need to start shortly or Sterling will begin to fall.

    It is interesting that the hope that Farage and Reform get in power maybe the only thing to save the UK economy from immediate collapse.




    Yet we also have a national surplus it was reported today just not as much as expected so why are we still borrowing?

    The unions and Labour left will block spending cuts anyway and demand higher taxes on the rich and big corporations instead.

    Reform are basically Trussite or tax cuts and spending for all, though Farage might move to a more insurance based model for healthcare to replace the NHS
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,541
    TimS said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:

    Out of interest, as I was agog reading the warfare on here last night, one of my Labour mates sent me some screengrabs of one of the Momentum lot who came into and then left the Labour Party with Corbyn. No surprise, a major proponent of the Putin view of the world because Zelenskyy is "not allowing open democracy", and is "known to have ordered the killing of Russian speaking citizens of Ukraine like some sort of genocide"

    The trot left and the Trump/Farage alt-right are marching in lockstep. They both hate each other for ideological reasons yet are proudly speaking the same FUD for ideological reasons.

    Fascinating...

    It's a bit of a headscratcher. Zelensky is a native Russian speaker and only learned Ukranian as an adult.
    It's funny reading BBC articles from 2019. Lots of worries about Zelensky being a Russian puppet, and he did better in the Russian-speaking/eastern parts of Ukraine than he did elsewhere. He was also elected on an anti-corruption platform, and was pushing for a ceasefire in Donbas etc.
    Z was elected on a platform of normalising relations with Russia and stamping out corruption. Epic fail on both scores. However, I think he'd be in with a fighting chance in an election as the opposition would obviously be The Chocolate King who is a known and not much liked quantity. Zaluzhny and Klitschko don't have the media owning oligarch backing which is essential to get anywhere in Ukrainian politics. Z doesn't need oligarch backing as he is one now. That's why he's dispensed with and locked up Kolomoisky who was so instrumental in propelling Z into the Marinisky Palace.
    The Corruption perception index has been improving consistently over time in Ukraine, both before and since Zelenskyy’s election.

    https://tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/corruption-index

    Somewhat different trajectory to Russia

    https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/corruption-index

    There is a point where the learned cynicism that says they’re all as bad as each other shades into nihilism.
    Making it all about Zelensky serves as a useful distraction from the invasion, rape and murder of ordinary Ukrainians. It's blatant.

    Trudeau has done a good job of invoking Canada as a whole, rather than him personally. Starmer needs to do the same if it all goes wrong in Washington.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 12,744
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cn489e05k09t?post=asset:7fe04e94-ca4d-4e39-924d-2ef3564757a8#post

    Ed Davey, Liberal Democrat leader, says there should be a new tax on digital services to increase defence immediately, with cross-party talks on going further to reaching 3% of GDP on defence
  • theakestheakes Posts: 949
    Latest Canadian Parliament seat projection:
    "123
    -37 seats
    Conservative
    163
    +44 seats
    New Democrat
    17
    -8 seats
    Bloc Québécois
    32
    +0 seats
    Green
    3
    +1 seat
    People's Party
    0
    +0 seats

    Remarkable transformation over the past 30 days, how much due to Trump. Now indicates a hung Parliament, may be a Con/Bloc coalition or amazingly a Liberal led one again. Surely the Cons cannot slide further.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,091
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:

    Out of interest, as I was agog reading the warfare on here last night, one of my Labour mates sent me some screengrabs of one of the Momentum lot who came into and then left the Labour Party with Corbyn. No surprise, a major proponent of the Putin view of the world because Zelenskyy is "not allowing open democracy", and is "known to have ordered the killing of Russian speaking citizens of Ukraine like some sort of genocide"

    The trot left and the Trump/Farage alt-right are marching in lockstep. They both hate each other for ideological reasons yet are proudly speaking the same FUD for ideological reasons.

    Fascinating...

    It's a bit of a headscratcher. Zelensky is a native Russian speaker and only learned Ukranian as an adult.
    It's funny reading BBC articles from 2019. Lots of worries about Zelensky being a Russian puppet, and he did better in the Russian-speaking/eastern parts of Ukraine than he did elsewhere. He was also elected on an anti-corruption platform, and was pushing for a ceasefire in Donbas etc.
    Zelensky was a very poor president prior to the invasion, in the pocket of one the main Ukrainian oligarchs. I don't think anyone would have predicted he would be a great war leader.
    Churchill would have been a minor historical figure were it not for being the right man in the right place in 1940.
    True but I think you could have imagined Churchill acting as he did during WW2 prior to those events.Zelensky was a weak president even by the low standards of Ukrainian governance. This is not to take away from his achievement but to say it was a surprising one.
    I think that's hindsight taking re Churchill. What had he ever achieved in his time in politics? Dardenelles - a massive disaster, butcher of workers during the general strike. Changed parties repeatedly like a gadfly.
  • theakestheakes Posts: 949
    The 123 figure at the top is of course the projected Liberal figure.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,541
    edited February 21
    HYUFD said:

    So the government borrowing is...wait for....£12bn higher than forecast....another one of those £12bn blackholes.

    Good morning

    £118.2 billion so far this year !!!!!

    This is a seminal moment. The Government has assumed that if it puts taxes up people will just grumble and pay them not act. Anecdotal evidence suggested this time it is different. Now the anecdotal evidence has become real. The Government can no longer put up taxes and get the OBR to assume they will generate net new money. The cuts will need to start shortly or Sterling will begin to fall.

    It is interesting that the hope that Farage and Reform get in power maybe the only thing to save the UK economy from immediate collapse.




    Yet we also have a national surplus it was reported today just not as much as expected so why are we still borrowing?

    The unions and Labour left will block spending cuts anyway and demand higher taxes on the rich and big corporations instead.

    Reform are basically Trussite or tax cuts and spending for all, though Farage might move to a more insurance based model for healthcare to replace the NHS
    Because the borrowing figure is for the entire financial year, not just January.

    Self-assessment is reported in January so the public finances are always in surplus in that month, but the outturn amount is less than what the OBR forecast, so overall borrowing will be more than expected.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,628

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I like the Madonna theme tune - she should have stuck to her lane.

    Talking of...

    @Madonna

    I thought this country was built by
    Europeans, escaping living under the rule of a King, to establish a New World governed by the people.
    Currently we have a president who calls Himself.
    Our King
    If this is a joke,
    I'm not laughing

    https://x.com/Madonna/status/1892742153261990189
    She's been a bit rubbish since she left the UK.
    And can she not do that stupid Leon thing of leaving off the full stops, it's very aging.
    FYI for certain people putting a full stop and the end of a txt is a rude, aggressive act!.?
    Really? I thought punctuation in texts had had a bit of a revival, when autocomplete led to less use of abbreviation and emoji use, so assumed full stops would be back in.
    I was told off as work for adding a full stop to Slack messages . People seem to think the key is hit with rage. I politely told them to “piss off.”
    That's the spirit.
    Once had a row with an author over the position of the "period" before or after the close quotes. She was, of course, "American." I, on the other hand, am "British".
    Gets complicated when the quotation contains more than one sentence.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,953
    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:

    Out of interest, as I was agog reading the warfare on here last night, one of my Labour mates sent me some screengrabs of one of the Momentum lot who came into and then left the Labour Party with Corbyn. No surprise, a major proponent of the Putin view of the world because Zelenskyy is "not allowing open democracy", and is "known to have ordered the killing of Russian speaking citizens of Ukraine like some sort of genocide"

    The trot left and the Trump/Farage alt-right are marching in lockstep. They both hate each other for ideological reasons yet are proudly speaking the same FUD for ideological reasons.

    Fascinating...

    It's a bit of a headscratcher. Zelensky is a native Russian speaker and only learned Ukranian as an adult.
    It's funny reading BBC articles from 2019. Lots of worries about Zelensky being a Russian puppet, and he did better in the Russian-speaking/eastern parts of Ukraine than he did elsewhere. He was also elected on an anti-corruption platform, and was pushing for a ceasefire in Donbas etc.
    Z was elected on a platform of normalising relations with Russia and stamping out corruption. Epic fail on both scores. However, I think he'd be in with a fighting chance in an election as the opposition would obviously be The Chocolate King who is a known and not much liked quantity. Zaluzhny and Klitschko don't have the media owning oligarch backing which is essential to get anywhere in Ukrainian politics. Z doesn't need oligarch backing as he is one now. That's why he's dispensed with and locked up Kolomoisky who was so instrumental in propelling Z into the Marinisky Palace.
    The Corruption perception index has been improving consistently over time in Ukraine, both before and since Zelenskyy’s election.

    https://tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/corruption-index

    Somewhat different trajectory to Russia

    https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/corruption-index

    There is a point where the learned cynicism that says they’re all as bad as each other shades into nihilism.
    Making it all about Zelensky serves as a useful distraction from the invasion, rape and murder of ordinary Ukrainians. It's blatant.

    Trudeau has done a good job of invoking Canada as a whole, rather than him personally. Starmer needs to do the same if it all goes wrong in Washington.
    Zelensky also did a good job of invoking Ukraine as a whole, rather than him personally.

    It was exactly this kind of pluralism that Putin saw as a threat. Which is why, instead of responding positively to overtures about peace, Putin went the other way.

    With an invasion. The centre piece of which was the capture and killing of Zelensky and his entire government and replacement with Russian Ultra Nationalist government.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,953

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cn489e05k09t?post=asset:7fe04e94-ca4d-4e39-924d-2ef3564757a8#post

    Ed Davey, Liberal Democrat leader, says there should be a new tax on digital services to increase defence immediately, with cross-party talks on going further to reaching 3% of GDP on defence

    Ah, the broadband tax rolls around. Again.
  • nico67 said:

    This is clever by Starmer, because eventually someone will take this to the courts as age discrimination and we will have free movement back.

    Britain is to offer European countries an “Australian-style” youth mobility scheme as part of Sir Keir Starmer’s reset with Brussels, The Times understands.

    Under a plan to be tabled by British negotiators, tens of thousands of young EU workers and students would be able to come to the UK to live and work for two years, with the possibility of a one-year extension.

    The reciprocal scheme would allow young Britons, aged 18-30, similar access to countries in the European Union.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/britain-to-offer-eu-youth-mobility-scheme-fh0dkh95w

    Europe being allowed to export its unemployed again will not prove a vote winner for anyone but Farage.
    You mean people who often do jobs many Brit’s don’t want to do . Does Farage want the other youth mobility schemes scrapped ?

    An EU youth scheme would be a big boost to hospitality as many can’t open fully as they don’t have sufficient staff . The chavs moaning about people taking their jobs are full of crxp as they sit on benefits popping out babies at an alarming rate .
    So you're saying that the half million net immigration predicted each year for the next decade isn't enough ?

    Well I suppose if aimlessly wandering around northern town centres is a job which needs doing we've got plenty of Europeans doing that already.

    And putting downward pressure on the wages of the young and upward pressure on house prices is guaranteed to increase still further generational inequality.

    Labour's economic strategy - make the rich richer by making the young poorer.
    But the local unemployed are Lazy Chav Scum Racist Shit
    And now likely to be called Imran or Winston.

    Unemployment is now concentrated in the inner cities.

    Which suggests that further immigration merely shifts previous immigrant groups onto welfare dependence.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,957
    The right need to decide wh

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cn489e05k09t?post=asset:7fe04e94-ca4d-4e39-924d-2ef3564757a8#post

    Ed Davey, Liberal Democrat leader, says there should be a new tax on digital services to increase defence immediately, with cross-party talks on going further to reaching 3% of GDP on defence

    Getting tax out of global digital platforms and retailers is definitely the nut to crack. More possibilities now Trump has ripped up the playbook.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,953

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:

    Out of interest, as I was agog reading the warfare on here last night, one of my Labour mates sent me some screengrabs of one of the Momentum lot who came into and then left the Labour Party with Corbyn. No surprise, a major proponent of the Putin view of the world because Zelenskyy is "not allowing open democracy", and is "known to have ordered the killing of Russian speaking citizens of Ukraine like some sort of genocide"

    The trot left and the Trump/Farage alt-right are marching in lockstep. They both hate each other for ideological reasons yet are proudly speaking the same FUD for ideological reasons.

    Fascinating...

    It's a bit of a headscratcher. Zelensky is a native Russian speaker and only learned Ukranian as an adult.
    It's funny reading BBC articles from 2019. Lots of worries about Zelensky being a Russian puppet, and he did better in the Russian-speaking/eastern parts of Ukraine than he did elsewhere. He was also elected on an anti-corruption platform, and was pushing for a ceasefire in Donbas etc.
    Zelensky was a very poor president prior to the invasion, in the pocket of one the main Ukrainian oligarchs. I don't think anyone would have predicted he would be a great war leader.
    Churchill would have been a minor historical figure were it not for being the right man in the right place in 1940.
    True but I think you could have imagined Churchill acting as he did during WW2 prior to those events.Zelensky was a weak president even by the low standards of Ukrainian governance. This is not to take away from his achievement but to say it was a surprising one.
    I think that's hindsight taking re Churchill. What had he ever achieved in his time in politics? Dardenelles - a massive disaster, butcher of workers during the general strike. Changed parties repeatedly like a gadfly.
    He didn’t actually butcher any workers. His dispatch of soldiers was down to a concern that the local police chief was a bit of an idiot. The idea was that soldiers could be reliably ordered *not* to shoot. Which they didn’t.
  • HYUFD said:

    So the government borrowing is...wait for....£12bn higher than forecast....another one of those £12bn blackholes.

    Good morning

    £118.2 billion so far this year !!!!!

    This is a seminal moment. The Government has assumed that if it puts taxes up people will just grumble and pay them not act. Anecdotal evidence suggested this time it is different. Now the anecdotal evidence has become real. The Government can no longer put up taxes and get the OBR to assume they will generate net new money. The cuts will need to start shortly or Sterling will begin to fall.

    It is interesting that the hope that Farage and Reform get in power maybe the only thing to save the UK economy from immediate collapse.




    Yet we also have a national surplus it was reported today just not as much as expected so why are we still borrowing?

    The unions and Labour left will block spending cuts anyway and demand higher taxes on the rich and big corporations instead.

    Reform are basically Trussite or tax cuts and spending for all, though Farage might move to a more insurance based model for healthcare to replace the NHS
    We don't have a national surplus, its purely seasonal, January is always in surplus as that's when a hefty swathe of taxes are paid all at once. January is but one month of the year and in the past now, we need borrowing for the rest of the year as we have a deficit.

    The 'surplus' for January was well below 'expectations' and means this year will have even more borrowing than forecast.
  • HYUFD said:

    nico67 said:

    This is clever by Starmer, because eventually someone will take this to the courts as age discrimination and we will have free movement back.

    Britain is to offer European countries an “Australian-style” youth mobility scheme as part of Sir Keir Starmer’s reset with Brussels, The Times understands.

    Under a plan to be tabled by British negotiators, tens of thousands of young EU workers and students would be able to come to the UK to live and work for two years, with the possibility of a one-year extension.

    The reciprocal scheme would allow young Britons, aged 18-30, similar access to countries in the European Union.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/britain-to-offer-eu-youth-mobility-scheme-fh0dkh95w

    Europe being allowed to export its unemployed again will not prove a vote winner for anyone but Farage.
    You mean people who often do jobs many Brit’s don’t want to do . Does Farage want the other youth mobility schemes scrapped ?

    An EU youth scheme would be a big boost to hospitality as many can’t open fully as they don’t have sufficient staff . The chavs moaning about people taking their jobs are full of crxp as they sit on benefits popping out babies at an alarming rate .
    They aren't popping out enough babies is more of the problem, unemployment is still low
    Popping out babies !!!!

    Not sure Mother's see it as that easy !!

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,631

    HYUFD said:

    So the government borrowing is...wait for....£12bn higher than forecast....another one of those £12bn blackholes.

    Good morning

    £118.2 billion so far this year !!!!!

    This is a seminal moment. The Government has assumed that if it puts taxes up people will just grumble and pay them not act. Anecdotal evidence suggested this time it is different. Now the anecdotal evidence has become real. The Government can no longer put up taxes and get the OBR to assume they will generate net new money. The cuts will need to start shortly or Sterling will begin to fall.

    It is interesting that the hope that Farage and Reform get in power maybe the only thing to save the UK economy from immediate collapse.




    Yet we also have a national surplus it was reported today just not as much as expected so why are we still borrowing?

    The unions and Labour left will block spending cuts anyway and demand higher taxes on the rich and big corporations instead.

    Reform are basically Trussite or tax cuts and spending for all, though Farage might move to a more insurance based model for healthcare to replace the NHS
    We don't have a national surplus, its purely seasonal, January is always in surplus as that's when a hefty swathe of taxes are paid all at once. January is but one month of the year and in the past now, we need borrowing for the rest of the year as we have a deficit.

    The 'surplus' for January was well below 'expectations' and means this year will have even more borrowing than forecast.
    Which if true means just more tax from Labour
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,108

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:

    Out of interest, as I was agog reading the warfare on here last night, one of my Labour mates sent me some screengrabs of one of the Momentum lot who came into and then left the Labour Party with Corbyn. No surprise, a major proponent of the Putin view of the world because Zelenskyy is "not allowing open democracy", and is "known to have ordered the killing of Russian speaking citizens of Ukraine like some sort of genocide"

    The trot left and the Trump/Farage alt-right are marching in lockstep. They both hate each other for ideological reasons yet are proudly speaking the same FUD for ideological reasons.

    Fascinating...

    It's a bit of a headscratcher. Zelensky is a native Russian speaker and only learned Ukranian as an adult.
    It's funny reading BBC articles from 2019. Lots of worries about Zelensky being a Russian puppet, and he did better in the Russian-speaking/eastern parts of Ukraine than he did elsewhere. He was also elected on an anti-corruption platform, and was pushing for a ceasefire in Donbas etc.
    Zelensky was a very poor president prior to the invasion, in the pocket of one the main Ukrainian oligarchs. I don't think anyone would have predicted he would be a great war leader.
    Churchill would have been a minor historical figure were it not for being the right man in the right place in 1940.
    True but I think you could have imagined Churchill acting as he did during WW2 prior to those events.Zelensky was a weak president even by the low standards of Ukrainian governance. This is not to take away from his achievement but to say it was a surprising one.
    I think that's hindsight taking re Churchill. What had he ever achieved in his time in politics? Dardenelles - a massive disaster, butcher of workers during the general strike. Changed parties repeatedly like a gadfly.
    He didn’t actually butcher any workers. His dispatch of soldiers was down to a concern that the local police chief was a bit of an idiot. The idea was that soldiers could be reliably ordered *not* to shoot. Which they didn’t.
    I thought that that particular 'urban myth' referred to a pre-WWI dispute, when Churchill was a "Liberal' minister.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,541
    edited February 21

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cn489e05k09t?post=asset:7fe04e94-ca4d-4e39-924d-2ef3564757a8#post

    Ed Davey, Liberal Democrat leader, says there should be a new tax on digital services to increase defence immediately, with cross-party talks on going further to reaching 3% of GDP on defence

    Ah, the broadband tax rolls around. Again.
    It's pretty easy. Council tax accounts for about £50 billion, roughly the same as defence spending. Increase it from 0.5% of total house values to 0.75%.

    Alternatively, revenge on Amazon for Bond. The UK gets about 5 billion packages a year delivered to homes. £2 flat tax on that, save the high street etc etc
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So the government borrowing is...wait for....£12bn higher than forecast....another one of those £12bn blackholes.

    Good morning

    £118.2 billion so far this year !!!!!

    This is a seminal moment. The Government has assumed that if it puts taxes up people will just grumble and pay them not act. Anecdotal evidence suggested this time it is different. Now the anecdotal evidence has become real. The Government can no longer put up taxes and get the OBR to assume they will generate net new money. The cuts will need to start shortly or Sterling will begin to fall.

    It is interesting that the hope that Farage and Reform get in power maybe the only thing to save the UK economy from immediate collapse.




    Yet we also have a national surplus it was reported today just not as much as expected so why are we still borrowing?

    The unions and Labour left will block spending cuts anyway and demand higher taxes on the rich and big corporations instead.

    Reform are basically Trussite or tax cuts and spending for all, though Farage might move to a more insurance based model for healthcare to replace the NHS
    We don't have a national surplus, its purely seasonal, January is always in surplus as that's when a hefty swathe of taxes are paid all at once. January is but one month of the year and in the past now, we need borrowing for the rest of the year as we have a deficit.

    The 'surplus' for January was well below 'expectations' and means this year will have even more borrowing than forecast.
    Which if true means just more tax from Labour
    Just the same as Rishi's Tories. Tax has been going up for years.

    I would like to see a party that proposes cutting the state expenditure and thus enabling cutting taxes, but any cut is vociferously opposed.

    Including by you, bitching and crying about cutting welfare like the winter fuel allowance.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,806
    TimS said:

    Jonathan said:

    Phil said:

    Out of interest, as I was agog reading the warfare on here last night, one of my Labour mates sent me some screengrabs of one of the Momentum lot who came into and then left the Labour Party with Corbyn. No surprise, a major proponent of the Putin view of the world because Zelenskyy is "not allowing open democracy", and is "known to have ordered the killing of Russian speaking citizens of Ukraine like some sort of genocide"

    The trot left and the Trump/Farage alt-right are marching in lockstep. They both hate each other for ideological reasons yet are proudly speaking the same FUD for ideological reasons.

    Fascinating...

    The unifying character here is the desire to lick the boot of authority. Authoritarians will latch onto to whichever self appointed “strong leader” is most appealing at a given time & Putin fits the bill perfectly.
    They all want to break the British state to promote their revolutionary aims. Ironically precisely the sort of thing the Conservative Party was created to prevent.
    Not at all. All Reform would do is restore the pre-Blairite constitutional settlement when life was far better. Blair's changes were far reaching and enormously damaging.
    What do you mean by pre-Blairite constitutional settlement? He did a lot on the constitution but reversing most of the ones I can think of would surely be either near-impossible or very esoteric?

    - Scottish and Welsh devolution
    - Good Friday agreement
    - abolishing (most) hereditary peers
    - Supreme Court and judicial appointments committee

    The only 2 that seem to chime with the Reform position would be the human rights act, which was repeatedly slated for scrapping under the Tories then abandoned, and the Lisbon Treaty which is irrelevant now given we’ve left the EU.
    The Constitutional Reform Act of 2005
    The Human Rights Act of 1998

    Both are wholly pernicious and need to, and I think will go.

    Bank of England independence also has a constitutional bearing, and has been equally harmful, whilst patently failing in its stated aim to avoid economic shocks. The lack of political accountability has actually led to worse and more reckless monetary policy.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So the government borrowing is...wait for....£12bn higher than forecast....another one of those £12bn blackholes.

    Good morning

    £118.2 billion so far this year !!!!!

    This is a seminal moment. The Government has assumed that if it puts taxes up people will just grumble and pay them not act. Anecdotal evidence suggested this time it is different. Now the anecdotal evidence has become real. The Government can no longer put up taxes and get the OBR to assume they will generate net new money. The cuts will need to start shortly or Sterling will begin to fall.

    It is interesting that the hope that Farage and Reform get in power maybe the only thing to save the UK economy from immediate collapse.




    Yet we also have a national surplus it was reported today just not as much as expected so why are we still borrowing?

    The unions and Labour left will block spending cuts anyway and demand higher taxes on the rich and big corporations instead.

    Reform are basically Trussite or tax cuts and spending for all, though Farage might move to a more insurance based model for healthcare to replace the NHS
    We don't have a national surplus, its purely seasonal, January is always in surplus as that's when a hefty swathe of taxes are paid all at once. January is but one month of the year and in the past now, we need borrowing for the rest of the year as we have a deficit.

    The 'surplus' for January was well below 'expectations' and means this year will have even more borrowing than forecast.
    Which if true means just more tax from Labour
    We are borrowing too much, taxing too much, and spending too much

    Seriously this cannot go on
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