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Farage remains the favourite to become our next Prime Minister – politicalbetting.com

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,631
    edited February 21
    Carnyx said:

    Battlebus said:

    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cn489e05k09t?post=asset:7fe04e94-ca4d-4e39-924d-2ef3564757a8#post

    Ed Davey, Liberal Democrat leader, says there should be a new tax on digital services to increase defence immediately, with cross-party talks on going further to reaching 3% of GDP on defence

    Ah, the broadband tax rolls around. Again.
    It's pretty easy. Council tax accounts for about £50 billion, roughly the same as defence spending. Increase it from 0.5% of total house values to 0.75%.

    Alternatively, revenge on Amazon for Bond. The UK gets about 5 billion packages a year delivered to homes. £2 flat tax on that, save the high street etc etc
    Ha!

    So you are going to raise a highly visible tax on housing. And that will be easy?

    And as an encore, massively increase the price of tat?

    The Evul Chav Scum Racist hordes will be revolting over that last one.
    There is a simpler way

    Increase standard rate to 25% reduce or abolish ni for workers and reduce the subsidises for evs which in the main goes to wealthy car buyers
    You are in Facebook la la land. Abolishing NI would cost £170 billion. You'd need to increase income tax by 64%, or from 20% to 33% on the basic rate and 66% on the higher rate just to breakeven.

    I can't find any comprehensive stats on the total value of EV subsidies, but the OBR reckon the Conservatives spent £3 billion over 14 years on it. That's less than 1% of the annualised cost of an increase in defence spending to 3% of GDP.
    So do it, increase Income Tax by enough to replace NI and level the playing field.

    That would still be (net) a tax cut for those working for a living while being a tax rise on those who are not doing so.

    NI is an Income Tax not paid by everyone, it is worse than Income Tax. Taxes should be low but consistently paid by everyone, equalising tax rates so everyone who earns the same amount pays the same tax rate is to be welcomed not warned against.
    No, NI is not an income tax. It is used to determine eligibility for the state pension and JSA now too and should be extended to increasingly fund the NHS and social care not income tax.

    If anything we need more National Insurance and less Income Tax
    Come on, this is factually incorrect as anyone not paying NI at a point can get credits, even if you're claiming £0.00 of job seekers allowance as I would be if out of work.
    So scrap the NI credits (which the second Wilson government introduced to expand welfare dependency) so you can't get state pension unless you have made enough NI contributions in work, otherwise you only get pension credit
    What about your comments about having more babies. So the non-working mother will be penalised for staying at home. You really should avoid commenting on this area unless you understand how it all works.

    When you have finally worked it out, you might actually get a job in government explaining it to them (and Kemi)
    As I said, child benefit can be increased from the savings (most non working mothers will either have a husband with a fat pension and high income or work part time and still pay NI contributions anyway as I also said).

    And what about the ones who have faced domestic violence and have had to abandon the marital home?

    You could take all your ideas and then have a list of exemptions like DOGE and at the end of it, your plan would be as complex as the exiting legislation (as amended by the various judicial reviews).
    HYUFD wants to abolish divorce and go back to the good old days of the 19 ... er, 1630s.
    No I am not the Pope even if I am not keen on no fault divorce
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,085
    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Trump has again raised the issue of him running for a third term.

    The next question is will anyone be allowed to run against him, or is it just a confirmatory re-election.......
    Getting ahead of ourselves. Reality is we have had peak Trump. We have had peak MAGA. The season of disruption and Populism is coming to an end all over the world in the coming years.

    MAGA control of GOP was based on Trumps charisma, name recognition, and a lifetime crafting vampire squid takeover and sucking things dry for personal gain - effectively a long built up a brand reputation, now getting sussed and trashed. Last years election win overwhelmingly built upon feeling much better off when Trump was in White House, than under the Dems, and that was wholly down to world wide historic erosion of income rather than something Trump actually achieved. Both Trumps age, fact he has surrounded himself with yes people rather than able people, and a US election system that goes to the will of the people every two years, dismantles MAGA power with every minute that ticks from now.
    Amazing people are still blind to what is happening. The US is on a short path to dictatorship.
    Either outcome is possible.
    I think it's more notable that anyone thinks it certain which way things will tip.

    My WAG is that it's around 50/50.

    On democracy's side is that the US system still has considerable inertia built in to it, and Trump is fairly likely to be quite unpopular come the midterms.
    Against that is the legal loophole Trump is exploiting (that the courts have no good way to check him when he chooses to ignore the law, and he knows it), and the craven compliance of the Republicans in Congress.
    Trump needs a 2/3 majority though to change the constitution to enable him to be elected for a third term after a second 4 year term.

    Indeed if the Democrats regain Congress in the midterms he is more likely to be impeached than be able to think of running for a third term. if the Democrats get a majority of any size in the House in 2026 it is 99% likely they will vote to impeach Trump again even if it is unlikely he is convicted unless they also get a landslide in the Senate too given conviction needs a 2/3 majority even if impeachment just needs simple majority
    Your analysis is predicated on the assumption that Trump follows the rule of law. It is unclear whether this is the case. If he just ignores the rules, he can do what he wants... unless someone stops him, and who is that going to be?
    The blue state governors are probably the most likely source of opposition, but if they become too antsy he can just have them killed.
    Many US judges see their duty now as “working towards the Fuhrer,” and “what would the Fuhrer do in my place?”

    The Republicans should now be viewed similarly to the NSDAP.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,631
    Battlebus said:

    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cn489e05k09t?post=asset:7fe04e94-ca4d-4e39-924d-2ef3564757a8#post

    Ed Davey, Liberal Democrat leader, says there should be a new tax on digital services to increase defence immediately, with cross-party talks on going further to reaching 3% of GDP on defence

    Ah, the broadband tax rolls around. Again.
    It's pretty easy. Council tax accounts for about £50 billion, roughly the same as defence spending. Increase it from 0.5% of total house values to 0.75%.

    Alternatively, revenge on Amazon for Bond. The UK gets about 5 billion packages a year delivered to homes. £2 flat tax on that, save the high street etc etc
    Ha!

    So you are going to raise a highly visible tax on housing. And that will be easy?

    And as an encore, massively increase the price of tat?

    The Evul Chav Scum Racist hordes will be revolting over that last one.
    There is a simpler way

    Increase standard rate to 25% reduce or abolish ni for workers and reduce the subsidises for evs which in the main goes to wealthy car buyers
    You are in Facebook la la land. Abolishing NI would cost £170 billion. You'd need to increase income tax by 64%, or from 20% to 33% on the basic rate and 66% on the higher rate just to breakeven.

    I can't find any comprehensive stats on the total value of EV subsidies, but the OBR reckon the Conservatives spent £3 billion over 14 years on it. That's less than 1% of the annualised cost of an increase in defence spending to 3% of GDP.
    So do it, increase Income Tax by enough to replace NI and level the playing field.

    That would still be (net) a tax cut for those working for a living while being a tax rise on those who are not doing so.

    NI is an Income Tax not paid by everyone, it is worse than Income Tax. Taxes should be low but consistently paid by everyone, equalising tax rates so everyone who earns the same amount pays the same tax rate is to be welcomed not warned against.
    No, NI is not an income tax. It is used to determine eligibility for the state pension and JSA now too and should be extended to increasingly fund the NHS and social care not income tax.

    If anything we need more National Insurance and less Income Tax
    Come on, this is factually incorrect as anyone not paying NI at a point can get credits, even if you're claiming £0.00 of job seekers allowance as I would be if out of work.
    So scrap the NI credits (which the second Wilson government introduced to expand welfare dependency) so you can't get state pension unless you have made enough NI contributions in work, otherwise you only get pension credit
    What about your comments about having more babies. So the non-working mother will be penalised for staying at home. You really should avoid commenting on this area unless you understand how it all works.

    When you have finally worked it out, you might actually get a job in government explaining it to them (and Kemi)
    As I said, child benefit can be increased from the savings (most non working mothers will either have a husband with a fat pension and high income or work part time and still pay NI contributions anyway as I also said).

    And what about the ones who have faced domestic violence and have had to abandon the marital home?

    You could take all your ideas and then have a list of exemptions like DOGE and at the end of it, your plan would be as complex as the exiting legislation (as amended by the various judicial reviews).
    Then they can work full or part time and still pay NI contributions and claim the increased child benefits
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,593

    Dura_Ace said:

    Winchy said:

    Winchy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:

    Out of interest, as I was agog reading the warfare on here last night, one of my Labour mates sent me some screengrabs of one of the Momentum lot who came into and then left the Labour Party with Corbyn. No surprise, a major proponent of the Putin view of the world because Zelenskyy is "not allowing open democracy", and is "known to have ordered the killing of Russian speaking citizens of Ukraine like some sort of genocide"

    The trot left and the Trump/Farage alt-right are marching in lockstep. They both hate each other for ideological reasons yet are proudly speaking the same FUD for ideological reasons.

    Fascinating...

    It's a bit of a headscratcher. Zelensky is a native Russian speaker and only learned Ukranian as an adult.
    It's funny reading BBC articles from 2019. Lots of worries about Zelensky being a Russian puppet, and he did better in the Russian-speaking/eastern parts of Ukraine than he did elsewhere. He was also elected on an anti-corruption platform, and was pushing for a ceasefire in Donbas etc.
    Have you got some links for the Russian puppet suggestion? That's interesting if British regime media was putting that out in 2019, when Zelensky was elected.

    You are right to say Zelensky was elected on an "anti-corruption platform". For an equivalent, imagine Paul Eddington running on an "Anti Sir Humphrey" platform for the "Yes, Prime Minister Party".

    To add to the comedy, Zelensky was put up by billionaire Ihor Kolomoisky, who owned the TV act and the campaign. Ukraine is a country like Colombia where every campaign to replace the current administration must always say it's against corruption.

    Personally I think

    1. The populations in the 6 territories want to be in Russia, the referendums there were not fake, and therefore the territories should be in Russia, and

    2. The ~KGB is a formidable organisation, with strong tentacles in France, Germany, Italy, Estonia, Britain, etc., etc. (did I mention Oxford, Cambridge, the City, the Temple, and Mayfair?) as well as in the USA (MAGA), and it has long been assisting the far and neo-Nazi right.

    3. Zelensky may himself have been a Russian puppet and Kiev's policies from 2014-15 and through 2019 and 2022 may have amounted to a set of provocations teleguided from Moscow.

    (It's quite possible 3 is not the case too. But the naive mouthy types who predominate in online discussions have probably not even considered the possibility, and their kneejerk reaction would be to respond with insults and sneers when it's raised.)

    As for Tory types, they seem to be going on about "imperialism" a lot. LOL - do they have something against it? They never complain about the brain drain, the Fulbright Program, or foreign military installations on British soil. Where the Russkies are concerned, they seem to forget there's always economics involved in imperialism. Non-British versions aren't reducible to the barbarism of not being born Blightyesque. They are about profits, just as much as the British empire ever was.

    The Russian government isn't aiming for Kiev-run Ukraine to be under its economic control. Not out of kindness but because it's out of reach. They're happy to let it be in the EU. They just don't want it to be in NATO.

    It's the now breaking up parts of the "ex-west" [1] who are after the minerals in that region and of course they want their military there, just as Russia wants its military on the other side of the line. Seems to me they'll only manage to put a few toes in. They probably know that. But never mind. The war dividend of some grrreat weapons contracts need not require putting lotsa weapons anywhere near Ukraine. Because, Reader, those contracts are all about the money too. Internal dividends in how the home country is run may also be available.

    Note

    1) The "ex-west" is USA plus western Eurasia, the latter including a nuclear-armed loose-cannon fragment to the NW that was successfully split off from the EU by the ~KGB. Gotta apply Haushofer from a Beijing POV nowadays.
    The referendums were fake.
    Statements like "The populations in the 6 territories want to be in Russia, the referendums there were not fake," throws the rest of the post into doubt.
    You should doubt everything, mate. What you mean is that it's either Crimea is forever Ukrainian and that's exactly how the population in that part of the world feels, or else your whole take on the war goes for a burton.
    Dura_Ace said:

    Winchy said:



    What do you reckon on the idea that Z may himself have been ~KGB and that the Tories don't have a fucking clue where the real ~KGB is concerned?

    No fucking idea. When I lived in Russia, he was the Russophone David Mitchell and was never off NTV. He was very tight with Solovyov so he was obviously regime adjacent at that time.
    Was "Servant of the People" broadcast in Russia?
    Yes. It was filmed in Russian to make it easier to sell in foreign (Russian speaking) markets.
    I believe it was actually filmed in both Ukrainian and Russian. Not dubbed - alternating takes.
    I don’t think there’s a Ukrainian language version of it.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,505
    kamski said:

    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    One I missed - encouraging !

    Britain confirms AI will not be given access to nukes

    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/britain-confirms-ai-will-not-be-given-access-to-nukes/

    Let’s see what the AI thinks about that.
    me: "can you tell me all the country names that end with the letter e in german

    Claude 3.5 Sonnet: Here are the countries that end with 'e' in German:

    Belgien, Botsuana, Brunei, Chile, China, Deutschland, Ecuador, Eritrea, Estland, Frankreich, Georgien, Griechenland, Indien, Indonesien, Italien, Jemen, Kambodscha, Kolumbien, Kroatien, Lettland, Libyen, Malaysia, Moldawien, Namibia, Neuseeland, Norwegen, Peru, Polen, Rumänien, Russland, Rwanda, Sambia, Saudi-Arabien, Schweden, Schweiz, Serbien, Slowakei, Slowenien, Spanien, Syrien, Tansania, Thailand, Truthahn, Tschechien, Tunesien, Türkei, Ukraine, Venezuela, Zimbabwe

    Would you like me to sort these alphabetically or group them by continent?

    me: are you sure about those

    Claude 3.5 Sonnet: I apologize - I should review these more carefully. Let me check each one specifically looking for the 'e' ending:

    1. Frankreich (France)
    2. Türkei (Turkey)
    3. Ukraine (Ukraine)

    These I am completely certain end in 'e'. I realize now that I made a significant error in my previous response by including many countries that don't end in 'e' in German (like Deutschland, Italien, etc.).

    I should note that while I aim to be accurate with language translations, you may want to verify this list with an authoritative German language source. Would you like me to double-check any specific country names?"


    This was a genuine query I had. Grok 3 was just as bad, or worse. Gemini gave me 3 countries, one of which does actually and with the letter e. ChapGPT gave me a bunch of countries that don't end in e.

    The winner by a long way was Co-pilot, which gave me 5 countries, 4 of which do actually end in e. But it missed out a couple of countries including die Niederlande.

    But much better just to look at list of country names in German!
    I tried it on chat gpt o3-mini... it came up with a few, but also suggested Turkei.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,398

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    I am now a granddad for the first time as of 8 this morning. Daughter has had a boy. Both seem to be fine.

    So, granddad, grandpa? Difficult decisions. Is smoking a pipe now mandatory? Advice please.

    Nowadays? Easy decision. Not smoking at all arond children is much the default position.

    But seriously, congratulations.
    Yeah, get that. What about a bunnet?

    One of my grandfathers was killed in WW2 so I never met him. The other fought in WW1 and was very old when I became aware of him. I don't have much precedent to go on.
    Don’t forget the open packet of Werthers Originals for them to choke on
    My granddad could make a polo mint last over an hour.
    Who remembers boxes of Fruit Gums, where the gums were in the shape of the fruits they represented? There was also a table of how long you could make one last. AFAIK if you made one last 60 minutes you were classed as a gumster in chief. Making sweets last as long as possible doesn’t seem a good sales tactic.
    It was an excellent tactic in the limited market of the 50s and 60s - still more the 40s. People just didn't have the money for sweeties to the same extent - and in the 40s and even after the war couldn't get the sweeties. Think K rather than r-selection.*

    *Which will mean nothing to anyone not trained as a biologist, admittedly.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,152
    MattW said:

    Trump has again raised the issue of him running for a third term.

    The next question is will anyone be allowed to run against him, or is it just a confirmatory re-election.......
    Getting ahead of ourselves. Reality is we have had peak Trump. We have had peak MAGA. The season of disruption and Populism is coming to an end all over the world in the coming years.

    MAGA control of GOP was based on Trumps charisma, name recognition, and a lifetime crafting vampire squid takeover and sucking things dry for personal gain - effectively a long built up a brand reputation, now getting sussed and trashed. Last years election win overwhelmingly built upon feeling much better off when Trump was in White House, than under the Dems, and that was wholly down to world wide historic erosion of income rather than something Trump actually achieved. Both Trumps age, fact he has surrounded himself with yes people rather than able people, and a US election system that goes to the will of the people every two years, dismantles MAGA power with every minute that ticks from now.
    It's not clear we have had peak Musk.

    He was tweeting about targeting the DOD, and has not yet been brought to heel.

    He could do something insane like get in there and start closing down entire programmes Western former-allies, including us, are dependent upon, at a couple of week's notice.

    That's been what they have done so far with entire programmes such as USAID, but also essential USA setups such as the organisation that is the partial equivalent of our Trading Standards and Financial Consumer Protection setups.
    We should bulk buy these, while we can.
    https://x.com/ColbyBadhwar/status/1892699202637201578

    10k units of the Hydra 70 would be around $200m.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,398
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Battlebus said:

    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cn489e05k09t?post=asset:7fe04e94-ca4d-4e39-924d-2ef3564757a8#post

    Ed Davey, Liberal Democrat leader, says there should be a new tax on digital services to increase defence immediately, with cross-party talks on going further to reaching 3% of GDP on defence

    Ah, the broadband tax rolls around. Again.
    It's pretty easy. Council tax accounts for about £50 billion, roughly the same as defence spending. Increase it from 0.5% of total house values to 0.75%.

    Alternatively, revenge on Amazon for Bond. The UK gets about 5 billion packages a year delivered to homes. £2 flat tax on that, save the high street etc etc
    Ha!

    So you are going to raise a highly visible tax on housing. And that will be easy?

    And as an encore, massively increase the price of tat?

    The Evul Chav Scum Racist hordes will be revolting over that last one.
    There is a simpler way

    Increase standard rate to 25% reduce or abolish ni for workers and reduce the subsidises for evs which in the main goes to wealthy car buyers
    You are in Facebook la la land. Abolishing NI would cost £170 billion. You'd need to increase income tax by 64%, or from 20% to 33% on the basic rate and 66% on the higher rate just to breakeven.

    I can't find any comprehensive stats on the total value of EV subsidies, but the OBR reckon the Conservatives spent £3 billion over 14 years on it. That's less than 1% of the annualised cost of an increase in defence spending to 3% of GDP.
    So do it, increase Income Tax by enough to replace NI and level the playing field.

    That would still be (net) a tax cut for those working for a living while being a tax rise on those who are not doing so.

    NI is an Income Tax not paid by everyone, it is worse than Income Tax. Taxes should be low but consistently paid by everyone, equalising tax rates so everyone who earns the same amount pays the same tax rate is to be welcomed not warned against.
    No, NI is not an income tax. It is used to determine eligibility for the state pension and JSA now too and should be extended to increasingly fund the NHS and social care not income tax.

    If anything we need more National Insurance and less Income Tax
    Come on, this is factually incorrect as anyone not paying NI at a point can get credits, even if you're claiming £0.00 of job seekers allowance as I would be if out of work.
    So scrap the NI credits (which the second Wilson government introduced to expand welfare dependency) so you can't get state pension unless you have made enough NI contributions in work, otherwise you only get pension credit
    What about your comments about having more babies. So the non-working mother will be penalised for staying at home. You really should avoid commenting on this area unless you understand how it all works.

    When you have finally worked it out, you might actually get a job in government explaining it to them (and Kemi)
    As I said, child benefit can be increased from the savings (most non working mothers will either have a husband with a fat pension and high income or work part time and still pay NI contributions anyway as I also said).

    And what about the ones who have faced domestic violence and have had to abandon the marital home?

    You could take all your ideas and then have a list of exemptions like DOGE and at the end of it, your plan would be as complex as the exiting legislation (as amended by the various judicial reviews).
    HYUFD wants to abolish divorce and go back to the good old days of the 19 ... er, 1630s.
    No I am not the Pope even if I am not keen on no fault divorce
    No, that'd be the *1530s*. I do like to be historically accurate.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,914
    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    Trump has again raised the issue of him running for a third term.

    I don't think he'll get through his second.
    Yeah. We've heard that one before. He'll be in jail. He's going bankrupt. His wig will fall off. He'll never get re-elected.

    Unless he dies, which would be mega-LOL, he is going fucking nowhere in 2028. He doesn't give a fuck about of the Constitution.
    He won't make it through this term IMO. But if he does, yep, he'll probably try for in perpetuity.
  • HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    Trump has again raised the issue of him running for a third term.

    I don't think he'll get through his second.
    Yeah. We've heard that one before. He'll be in jail. He's going bankrupt. His wig will fall off. He'll never get re-elected.

    Unless he dies, which would be mega-LOL, he is going fucking nowhere in 2028. He doesn't give a fuck about of the Constitution.
    That's about the size of it. Of course, he can use some of the mechanisms of the Constitution to subvert others. A pliant Supreme Court is all that is really needed as it can rewrite the Constitution entirely through reinterpretation. Congress might as well pack up and go home.
    The Justices have interpreted the Constitution in a conservative direction, they haven't completely disregarded what it says and the 22nd amendment is clear 'No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice'
    It doesn't say anything about third terms they've not been elected to serve.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,631
    edited February 21
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Battlebus said:

    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cn489e05k09t?post=asset:7fe04e94-ca4d-4e39-924d-2ef3564757a8#post

    Ed Davey, Liberal Democrat leader, says there should be a new tax on digital services to increase defence immediately, with cross-party talks on going further to reaching 3% of GDP on defence

    Ah, the broadband tax rolls around. Again.
    It's pretty easy. Council tax accounts for about £50 billion, roughly the same as defence spending. Increase it from 0.5% of total house values to 0.75%.

    Alternatively, revenge on Amazon for Bond. The UK gets about 5 billion packages a year delivered to homes. £2 flat tax on that, save the high street etc etc
    Ha!

    So you are going to raise a highly visible tax on housing. And that will be easy?

    And as an encore, massively increase the price of tat?

    The Evul Chav Scum Racist hordes will be revolting over that last one.
    There is a simpler way

    Increase standard rate to 25% reduce or abolish ni for workers and reduce the subsidises for evs which in the main goes to wealthy car buyers
    You are in Facebook la la land. Abolishing NI would cost £170 billion. You'd need to increase income tax by 64%, or from 20% to 33% on the basic rate and 66% on the higher rate just to breakeven.

    I can't find any comprehensive stats on the total value of EV subsidies, but the OBR reckon the Conservatives spent £3 billion over 14 years on it. That's less than 1% of the annualised cost of an increase in defence spending to 3% of GDP.
    So do it, increase Income Tax by enough to replace NI and level the playing field.

    That would still be (net) a tax cut for those working for a living while being a tax rise on those who are not doing so.

    NI is an Income Tax not paid by everyone, it is worse than Income Tax. Taxes should be low but consistently paid by everyone, equalising tax rates so everyone who earns the same amount pays the same tax rate is to be welcomed not warned against.
    No, NI is not an income tax. It is used to determine eligibility for the state pension and JSA now too and should be extended to increasingly fund the NHS and social care not income tax.

    If anything we need more National Insurance and less Income Tax
    Come on, this is factually incorrect as anyone not paying NI at a point can get credits, even if you're claiming £0.00 of job seekers allowance as I would be if out of work.
    So scrap the NI credits (which the second Wilson government introduced to expand welfare dependency) so you can't get state pension unless you have made enough NI contributions in work, otherwise you only get pension credit
    What about your comments about having more babies. So the non-working mother will be penalised for staying at home. You really should avoid commenting on this area unless you understand how it all works.

    When you have finally worked it out, you might actually get a job in government explaining it to them (and Kemi)
    As I said, child benefit can be increased from the savings (most non working mothers will either have a husband with a fat pension and high income or work part time and still pay NI contributions anyway as I also said).

    And what about the ones who have faced domestic violence and have had to abandon the marital home?

    You could take all your ideas and then have a list of exemptions like DOGE and at the end of it, your plan would be as complex as the exiting legislation (as amended by the various judicial reviews).
    HYUFD wants to abolish divorce and go back to the good old days of the 19 ... er, 1630s.
    No I am not the Pope even if I am not keen on no fault divorce
    No, that'd be the *1530s*. I do like to be historically accurate.
    No fault divorce was illegal in England and Wales until 2022 (even Henry VIII divorced Catherine of Aragon on the grounds of fault ie she had not provided him with a son who had survived longer than a few weeks and had now passed the menopause, even if not a very sound one)
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,803
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Battlebus said:

    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cn489e05k09t?post=asset:7fe04e94-ca4d-4e39-924d-2ef3564757a8#post

    Ed Davey, Liberal Democrat leader, says there should be a new tax on digital services to increase defence immediately, with cross-party talks on going further to reaching 3% of GDP on defence

    Ah, the broadband tax rolls around. Again.
    It's pretty easy. Council tax accounts for about £50 billion, roughly the same as defence spending. Increase it from 0.5% of total house values to 0.75%.

    Alternatively, revenge on Amazon for Bond. The UK gets about 5 billion packages a year delivered to homes. £2 flat tax on that, save the high street etc etc
    Ha!

    So you are going to raise a highly visible tax on housing. And that will be easy?

    And as an encore, massively increase the price of tat?

    The Evul Chav Scum Racist hordes will be revolting over that last one.
    There is a simpler way

    Increase standard rate to 25% reduce or abolish ni for workers and reduce the subsidises for evs which in the main goes to wealthy car buyers
    You are in Facebook la la land. Abolishing NI would cost £170 billion. You'd need to increase income tax by 64%, or from 20% to 33% on the basic rate and 66% on the higher rate just to breakeven.

    I can't find any comprehensive stats on the total value of EV subsidies, but the OBR reckon the Conservatives spent £3 billion over 14 years on it. That's less than 1% of the annualised cost of an increase in defence spending to 3% of GDP.
    So do it, increase Income Tax by enough to replace NI and level the playing field.

    That would still be (net) a tax cut for those working for a living while being a tax rise on those who are not doing so.

    NI is an Income Tax not paid by everyone, it is worse than Income Tax. Taxes should be low but consistently paid by everyone, equalising tax rates so everyone who earns the same amount pays the same tax rate is to be welcomed not warned against.
    No, NI is not an income tax. It is used to determine eligibility for the state pension and JSA now too and should be extended to increasingly fund the NHS and social care not income tax.

    If anything we need more National Insurance and less Income Tax
    Come on, this is factually incorrect as anyone not paying NI at a point can get credits, even if you're claiming £0.00 of job seekers allowance as I would be if out of work.
    So scrap the NI credits (which the second Wilson government introduced to expand welfare dependency) so you can't get state pension unless you have made enough NI contributions in work, otherwise you only get pension credit
    What about your comments about having more babies. So the non-working mother will be penalised for staying at home. You really should avoid commenting on this area unless you understand how it all works.

    When you have finally worked it out, you might actually get a job in government explaining it to them (and Kemi)
    As I said, child benefit can be increased from the savings (most non working mothers will either have a husband with a fat pension and high income or work part time and still pay NI contributions anyway as I also said).

    And what about the ones who have faced domestic violence and have had to abandon the marital home?

    You could take all your ideas and then have a list of exemptions like DOGE and at the end of it, your plan would be as complex as the exiting legislation (as amended by the various judicial reviews).
    HYUFD wants to abolish divorce and go back to the good old days of the 19 ... er, 1630s.
    No I am not the Pope even if I am not keen on no fault divorce
    No, that'd be the *1530s*. I do like to be historically accurate.
    No fault divorce was illegal in England and Wales until 2022 (even Henry VIII divorced Catherine of Aragon on the grounds of fault ie she had not provided him with a son who had survived longer than a few weeks and had now passed the menopause, even if not a very sound one)
    In practice it wasn’t. You just had to wait the required time period post separation.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,631

    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    Trump has again raised the issue of him running for a third term.

    I don't think he'll get through his second.
    Yeah. We've heard that one before. He'll be in jail. He's going bankrupt. His wig will fall off. He'll never get re-elected.

    Unless he dies, which would be mega-LOL, he is going fucking nowhere in 2028. He doesn't give a fuck about of the Constitution.
    That's about the size of it. Of course, he can use some of the mechanisms of the Constitution to subvert others. A pliant Supreme Court is all that is really needed as it can rewrite the Constitution entirely through reinterpretation. Congress might as well pack up and go home.
    The Justices have interpreted the Constitution in a conservative direction, they haven't completely disregarded what it says and the 22nd amendment is clear 'No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice'
    It doesn't say anything about third terms they've not been elected to serve.
    Article 2 Section 1 'The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America.

    He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows: Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector....The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.'
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,086
    Scott_xP said:

    How long till Musk/Trump refutes this?

    @generalkellogg
    A long and intense day with the senior leadership of Ukraine. Extensive and positive discussions with @ZelenskyyUa, the embattled and courageous leader of a nation at war and his talented national security team.

    I expect he’ll get a frosty reception from the crunchy nutters back in the US. They’ll accuse him of being flaky.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,708
    TimS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How long till Musk/Trump refutes this?

    @generalkellogg
    A long and intense day with the senior leadership of Ukraine. Extensive and positive discussions with @ZelenskyyUa, the embattled and courageous leader of a nation at war and his talented national security team.

    I expect he’ll get a frosty reception from the crunchy nutters back in the US. They’ll accuse him of being flaky.
    He is just the square of the cabinet especially compared to the pop tarts like musk and their special k. It is pretty obvious which of the two groups Trump will krave.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 746
    If only such a party had been in power for the last 15 years, the rot could have been stopped in time!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,914
    Nigelb said:

    A new theory of government for @viewcode

    https://x.com/AndrewPerpetua/status/1892681372583530782
    Trump’s consolidating control over economic outcomes in a way that’s functionally communist, even if the methods have evolved past the old Soviet playbook. He’s learned from history’s failures—why bother seizing factories when you can rig the game so profits flow to you and yours anyway? It’s a slicker, modern twist: control without the clunky state-ownership label..

    ..Trump’s sidestepping class talk—not because it’s irrelevant, but because it’s been reframed into something more visceral, more 21st-century. The wealthy dodge class to keep power quiet, but Trump flips it into a new currency: validation. He’s not promising a classless utopia like the Soviets; he’s feeding a hunger to feel superior, especially for folks—poor, undereducated—who’ve been kicked down by elites and systems. It’s still class war, just dressed up as a culture war or a knowledge flex.

    Class used to be the battleground—Marx made it about workers versus owners, and the Soviets ran with it, even if they botched the execution. But today, class is a dirty word; it’s too academic, too stiff for a world of TikTok and soundbites. People don’t see themselves as "proletariat" anymore—they’re "real Americans" or "forgotten deplorables." Trump gets that. He doesn’t say, “I’ll level the economic playing field”; he says, “I’ll make you feel smarter than the snobs who look down on you.” It’s genius bait for the disenfranchised—poor folks in red states, rust-belt workers—who’ve been told they’re dumb by coastal liberals or college grads. He’s not offering them wealth; he’s offering them pride, a middle finger to the "woke" or the "experts."

    ...So, is this communist? In spirit. It’s a top-down power grab that exploits the masses’ grievances, like Lenin whipping up peasants against the tsar. But the Soviet endgame was a state-run economy, while Trump’s is a loyalty-run one. He’s not centralizing production; he’s centralizing attention. The wealthy stay rich (his buddies still profit), but the poor get a psychological payout instead of a material one. Communism preached equality as a lie to mask elite rule; Trump skips the lie and sells superiority straight-up. It’s evolved—less about class as a structure, more about class as a feeling.

    Trump is not mimicking the USSR’s machinery, just its manipulation. He’s swapped Marx’s class lens for a reality-TV one—everyone’s a star in his show, even if the profits still pool at the top. It’s a new beast, still kicking the same old class hornet’s nest, but with a playbook the Soviets never dreamed of.

    It's a great political strength of the Trump project (of alt right populism generally) that the subsection of the 'plebs' (no offence, I just mean impecunious people) who sign up to it tend to at the less intelligent and/or more xenophobic end of the spectrum.

    It means they can be bought off with an "owning the libs" morale boost or an anti-immigration dog whistle instead of the far more challenging-to-deliver and important thing they ought to be demanding of any 'movement' in their name, which is a bigger share of the wealth of the country.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,106
    Taz said:


    viewcode said:

    @DavidL, you may want to familiarise yourself with this one-liner

    "How do you feel about becoming a grandad, DavidL?"
    "It's not bad. But I am now sleeping with a grandmother"

    boom-tish. :)


    Wayne Rooney approves this message

    I always think Rooney looks like one of those early AI portraits where it's recognisably a face, but is wrong in ways you can't quite put your finger on.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,953

    Dura_Ace said:

    Winchy said:

    Winchy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:

    Out of interest, as I was agog reading the warfare on here last night, one of my Labour mates sent me some screengrabs of one of the Momentum lot who came into and then left the Labour Party with Corbyn. No surprise, a major proponent of the Putin view of the world because Zelenskyy is "not allowing open democracy", and is "known to have ordered the killing of Russian speaking citizens of Ukraine like some sort of genocide"

    The trot left and the Trump/Farage alt-right are marching in lockstep. They both hate each other for ideological reasons yet are proudly speaking the same FUD for ideological reasons.

    Fascinating...

    It's a bit of a headscratcher. Zelensky is a native Russian speaker and only learned Ukranian as an adult.
    It's funny reading BBC articles from 2019. Lots of worries about Zelensky being a Russian puppet, and he did better in the Russian-speaking/eastern parts of Ukraine than he did elsewhere. He was also elected on an anti-corruption platform, and was pushing for a ceasefire in Donbas etc.
    Have you got some links for the Russian puppet suggestion? That's interesting if British regime media was putting that out in 2019, when Zelensky was elected.

    You are right to say Zelensky was elected on an "anti-corruption platform". For an equivalent, imagine Paul Eddington running on an "Anti Sir Humphrey" platform for the "Yes, Prime Minister Party".

    To add to the comedy, Zelensky was put up by billionaire Ihor Kolomoisky, who owned the TV act and the campaign. Ukraine is a country like Colombia where every campaign to replace the current administration must always say it's against corruption.

    Personally I think

    1. The populations in the 6 territories want to be in Russia, the referendums there were not fake, and therefore the territories should be in Russia, and

    2. The ~KGB is a formidable organisation, with strong tentacles in France, Germany, Italy, Estonia, Britain, etc., etc. (did I mention Oxford, Cambridge, the City, the Temple, and Mayfair?) as well as in the USA (MAGA), and it has long been assisting the far and neo-Nazi right.

    3. Zelensky may himself have been a Russian puppet and Kiev's policies from 2014-15 and through 2019 and 2022 may have amounted to a set of provocations teleguided from Moscow.

    (It's quite possible 3 is not the case too. But the naive mouthy types who predominate in online discussions have probably not even considered the possibility, and their kneejerk reaction would be to respond with insults and sneers when it's raised.)

    As for Tory types, they seem to be going on about "imperialism" a lot. LOL - do they have something against it? They never complain about the brain drain, the Fulbright Program, or foreign military installations on British soil. Where the Russkies are concerned, they seem to forget there's always economics involved in imperialism. Non-British versions aren't reducible to the barbarism of not being born Blightyesque. They are about profits, just as much as the British empire ever was.

    The Russian government isn't aiming for Kiev-run Ukraine to be under its economic control. Not out of kindness but because it's out of reach. They're happy to let it be in the EU. They just don't want it to be in NATO.

    It's the now breaking up parts of the "ex-west" [1] who are after the minerals in that region and of course they want their military there, just as Russia wants its military on the other side of the line. Seems to me they'll only manage to put a few toes in. They probably know that. But never mind. The war dividend of some grrreat weapons contracts need not require putting lotsa weapons anywhere near Ukraine. Because, Reader, those contracts are all about the money too. Internal dividends in how the home country is run may also be available.

    Note

    1) The "ex-west" is USA plus western Eurasia, the latter including a nuclear-armed loose-cannon fragment to the NW that was successfully split off from the EU by the ~KGB. Gotta apply Haushofer from a Beijing POV nowadays.
    The referendums were fake.
    Statements like "The populations in the 6 territories want to be in Russia, the referendums there were not fake," throws the rest of the post into doubt.
    You should doubt everything, mate. What you mean is that it's either Crimea is forever Ukrainian and that's exactly how the population in that part of the world feels, or else your whole take on the war goes for a burton.
    Dura_Ace said:

    Winchy said:



    What do you reckon on the idea that Z may himself have been ~KGB and that the Tories don't have a fucking clue where the real ~KGB is concerned?

    No fucking idea. When I lived in Russia, he was the Russophone David Mitchell and was never off NTV. He was very tight with Solovyov so he was obviously regime adjacent at that time.
    Was "Servant of the People" broadcast in Russia?
    Yes. It was filmed in Russian to make it easier to sell in foreign (Russian speaking) markets.
    I believe it was actually filmed in both Ukrainian and Russian. Not dubbed - alternating takes.
    I don’t think there’s a Ukrainian language version of it.
    IMDB lists the language(s) as Russian & Ukrainian
  • Nunu3Nunu3 Posts: 250

    Nigelb said:

    United States is opposing calling Russia the aggressor in a G7 statement on the anniversary of the Russia-Ukraine war — FT
    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/1892570800395366876

    The US is going to bac Russia, isn't it?
    Seems like Trump has surrounded himself with far right looney tunes yes men.

    And he is following their nutcase advice.
    Europe is doomed if it doesn't get its act together and work together to defeat Putin. There will be no help from the USA.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,106
    .
    Scott_xP said:

    How long till Musk/Trump refutes this?

    @generalkellogg
    A long and intense day with the senior leadership of Ukraine. Extensive and positive discussions with @ZelenskyyUa, the embattled and courageous leader of a nation at war and his talented national security team.

    There's no comma after war, so it should be read as a meeting with:
    1. Zelensky
    2. the embattled and courageous leader of a nation at war
    3. his* talented national security team
    Given recent statements, 2 is Putin, presumably :disappointed:

    *probably the team of person number 2?
  • glwglw Posts: 10,169
    Scott_xP said:

    How long till Musk/Trump refutes this?

    @generalkellogg
    A long and intense day with the senior leadership of Ukraine. Extensive and positive discussions with @ZelenskyyUa, the embattled and courageous leader of a nation at war and his talented national security team.

    Funnily enough a BBC reporter was speculating that Kellogg's press conference yesterday was cancelled not because he would disagree with Zelensky, but because he might go off message from the Musk/Trump line.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,593

    Dura_Ace said:

    Winchy said:

    Winchy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:

    Out of interest, as I was agog reading the warfare on here last night, one of my Labour mates sent me some screengrabs of one of the Momentum lot who came into and then left the Labour Party with Corbyn. No surprise, a major proponent of the Putin view of the world because Zelenskyy is "not allowing open democracy", and is "known to have ordered the killing of Russian speaking citizens of Ukraine like some sort of genocide"

    The trot left and the Trump/Farage alt-right are marching in lockstep. They both hate each other for ideological reasons yet are proudly speaking the same FUD for ideological reasons.

    Fascinating...

    It's a bit of a headscratcher. Zelensky is a native Russian speaker and only learned Ukranian as an adult.
    It's funny reading BBC articles from 2019. Lots of worries about Zelensky being a Russian puppet, and he did better in the Russian-speaking/eastern parts of Ukraine than he did elsewhere. He was also elected on an anti-corruption platform, and was pushing for a ceasefire in Donbas etc.
    Have you got some links for the Russian puppet suggestion? That's interesting if British regime media was putting that out in 2019, when Zelensky was elected.

    You are right to say Zelensky was elected on an "anti-corruption platform". For an equivalent, imagine Paul Eddington running on an "Anti Sir Humphrey" platform for the "Yes, Prime Minister Party".

    To add to the comedy, Zelensky was put up by billionaire Ihor Kolomoisky, who owned the TV act and the campaign. Ukraine is a country like Colombia where every campaign to replace the current administration must always say it's against corruption.

    Personally I think

    1. The populations in the 6 territories want to be in Russia, the referendums there were not fake, and therefore the territories should be in Russia, and

    2. The ~KGB is a formidable organisation, with strong tentacles in France, Germany, Italy, Estonia, Britain, etc., etc. (did I mention Oxford, Cambridge, the City, the Temple, and Mayfair?) as well as in the USA (MAGA), and it has long been assisting the far and neo-Nazi right.

    3. Zelensky may himself have been a Russian puppet and Kiev's policies from 2014-15 and through 2019 and 2022 may have amounted to a set of provocations teleguided from Moscow.

    (It's quite possible 3 is not the case too. But the naive mouthy types who predominate in online discussions have probably not even considered the possibility, and their kneejerk reaction would be to respond with insults and sneers when it's raised.)

    As for Tory types, they seem to be going on about "imperialism" a lot. LOL - do they have something against it? They never complain about the brain drain, the Fulbright Program, or foreign military installations on British soil. Where the Russkies are concerned, they seem to forget there's always economics involved in imperialism. Non-British versions aren't reducible to the barbarism of not being born Blightyesque. They are about profits, just as much as the British empire ever was.

    The Russian government isn't aiming for Kiev-run Ukraine to be under its economic control. Not out of kindness but because it's out of reach. They're happy to let it be in the EU. They just don't want it to be in NATO.

    It's the now breaking up parts of the "ex-west" [1] who are after the minerals in that region and of course they want their military there, just as Russia wants its military on the other side of the line. Seems to me they'll only manage to put a few toes in. They probably know that. But never mind. The war dividend of some grrreat weapons contracts need not require putting lotsa weapons anywhere near Ukraine. Because, Reader, those contracts are all about the money too. Internal dividends in how the home country is run may also be available.

    Note

    1) The "ex-west" is USA plus western Eurasia, the latter including a nuclear-armed loose-cannon fragment to the NW that was successfully split off from the EU by the ~KGB. Gotta apply Haushofer from a Beijing POV nowadays.
    The referendums were fake.
    Statements like "The populations in the 6 territories want to be in Russia, the referendums there were not fake," throws the rest of the post into doubt.
    You should doubt everything, mate. What you mean is that it's either Crimea is forever Ukrainian and that's exactly how the population in that part of the world feels, or else your whole take on the war goes for a burton.
    Dura_Ace said:

    Winchy said:



    What do you reckon on the idea that Z may himself have been ~KGB and that the Tories don't have a fucking clue where the real ~KGB is concerned?

    No fucking idea. When I lived in Russia, he was the Russophone David Mitchell and was never off NTV. He was very tight with Solovyov so he was obviously regime adjacent at that time.
    Was "Servant of the People" broadcast in Russia?
    Yes. It was filmed in Russian to make it easier to sell in foreign (Russian speaking) markets.
    I believe it was actually filmed in both Ukrainian and Russian. Not dubbed - alternating takes.
    I don’t think there’s a Ukrainian language version of it.
    IMDB lists the language(s) as Russian & Ukrainian
    There are snippets of Ukrainian in it but it’s mostly Russian.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,491

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Battlebus said:

    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cn489e05k09t?post=asset:7fe04e94-ca4d-4e39-924d-2ef3564757a8#post

    Ed Davey, Liberal Democrat leader, says there should be a new tax on digital services to increase defence immediately, with cross-party talks on going further to reaching 3% of GDP on defence

    Ah, the broadband tax rolls around. Again.
    It's pretty easy. Council tax accounts for about £50 billion, roughly the same as defence spending. Increase it from 0.5% of total house values to 0.75%.

    Alternatively, revenge on Amazon for Bond. The UK gets about 5 billion packages a year delivered to homes. £2 flat tax on that, save the high street etc etc
    Ha!

    So you are going to raise a highly visible tax on housing. And that will be easy?

    And as an encore, massively increase the price of tat?

    The Evul Chav Scum Racist hordes will be revolting over that last one.
    There is a simpler way

    Increase standard rate to 25% reduce or abolish ni for workers and reduce the subsidises for evs which in the main goes to wealthy car buyers
    You are in Facebook la la land. Abolishing NI would cost £170 billion. You'd need to increase income tax by 64%, or from 20% to 33% on the basic rate and 66% on the higher rate just to breakeven.

    I can't find any comprehensive stats on the total value of EV subsidies, but the OBR reckon the Conservatives spent £3 billion over 14 years on it. That's less than 1% of the annualised cost of an increase in defence spending to 3% of GDP.
    So do it, increase Income Tax by enough to replace NI and level the playing field.

    That would still be (net) a tax cut for those working for a living while being a tax rise on those who are not doing so.

    NI is an Income Tax not paid by everyone, it is worse than Income Tax. Taxes should be low but consistently paid by everyone, equalising tax rates so everyone who earns the same amount pays the same tax rate is to be welcomed not warned against.
    No, NI is not an income tax. It is used to determine eligibility for the state pension and JSA now too and should be extended to increasingly fund the NHS and social care not income tax.

    If anything we need more National Insurance and less Income Tax
    Come on, this is factually incorrect as anyone not paying NI at a point can get credits, even if you're claiming £0.00 of job seekers allowance as I would be if out of work.
    So scrap the NI credits (which the second Wilson government introduced to expand welfare dependency) so you can't get state pension unless you have made enough NI contributions in work, otherwise you only get pension credit
    What about your comments about having more babies. So the non-working mother will be penalised for staying at home. You really should avoid commenting on this area unless you understand how it all works.

    When you have finally worked it out, you might actually get a job in government explaining it to them (and Kemi)
    As I said, child benefit can be increased from the savings (most non working mothers will either have a husband with a fat pension and high income or work part time and still pay NI contributions anyway as I also said).

    And what about the ones who have faced domestic violence and have had to abandon the marital home?

    You could take all your ideas and then have a list of exemptions like DOGE and at the end of it, your plan would be as complex as the exiting legislation (as amended by the various judicial reviews).
    HYUFD wants to abolish divorce and go back to the good old days of the 19 ... er, 1630s.
    No I am not the Pope even if I am not keen on no fault divorce
    No, that'd be the *1530s*. I do like to be historically accurate.
    No fault divorce was illegal in England and Wales until 2022 (even Henry VIII divorced Catherine of Aragon on the grounds of fault ie she had not provided him with a son who had survived longer than a few weeks and had now passed the menopause, even if not a very sound one)
    In practice it wasn’t. You just had to wait the required time period post separation.
    Or you had to arrange to be photographed in flagrante with a whore at a seedy south coast boarding house. As far as I'm aware no-one who did was ever charged with perjury or conspiracy.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,398
    Wasn't quite expecting that.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24954153.anas-sarwar-copies-tory-plan-elon-musk-style-doge-scotland/?ref=ebbn&nid=1457&u=f140ec39d500193051a33e140c12bd95&date=210225

    “As first minister I will respect every penny of your money. That’s why we will have our own Department of Government Efficiency [Doge] to stop the waste and deliver value for money for you, the taxpayer.”
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,612

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Battlebus said:

    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cn489e05k09t?post=asset:7fe04e94-ca4d-4e39-924d-2ef3564757a8#post

    Ed Davey, Liberal Democrat leader, says there should be a new tax on digital services to increase defence immediately, with cross-party talks on going further to reaching 3% of GDP on defence

    Ah, the broadband tax rolls around. Again.
    It's pretty easy. Council tax accounts for about £50 billion, roughly the same as defence spending. Increase it from 0.5% of total house values to 0.75%.

    Alternatively, revenge on Amazon for Bond. The UK gets about 5 billion packages a year delivered to homes. £2 flat tax on that, save the high street etc etc
    Ha!

    So you are going to raise a highly visible tax on housing. And that will be easy?

    And as an encore, massively increase the price of tat?

    The Evul Chav Scum Racist hordes will be revolting over that last one.
    There is a simpler way

    Increase standard rate to 25% reduce or abolish ni for workers and reduce the subsidises for evs which in the main goes to wealthy car buyers
    You are in Facebook la la land. Abolishing NI would cost £170 billion. You'd need to increase income tax by 64%, or from 20% to 33% on the basic rate and 66% on the higher rate just to breakeven.

    I can't find any comprehensive stats on the total value of EV subsidies, but the OBR reckon the Conservatives spent £3 billion over 14 years on it. That's less than 1% of the annualised cost of an increase in defence spending to 3% of GDP.
    So do it, increase Income Tax by enough to replace NI and level the playing field.

    That would still be (net) a tax cut for those working for a living while being a tax rise on those who are not doing so.

    NI is an Income Tax not paid by everyone, it is worse than Income Tax. Taxes should be low but consistently paid by everyone, equalising tax rates so everyone who earns the same amount pays the same tax rate is to be welcomed not warned against.
    No, NI is not an income tax. It is used to determine eligibility for the state pension and JSA now too and should be extended to increasingly fund the NHS and social care not income tax.

    If anything we need more National Insurance and less Income Tax
    Come on, this is factually incorrect as anyone not paying NI at a point can get credits, even if you're claiming £0.00 of job seekers allowance as I would be if out of work.
    So scrap the NI credits (which the second Wilson government introduced to expand welfare dependency) so you can't get state pension unless you have made enough NI contributions in work, otherwise you only get pension credit
    What about your comments about having more babies. So the non-working mother will be penalised for staying at home. You really should avoid commenting on this area unless you understand how it all works.

    When you have finally worked it out, you might actually get a job in government explaining it to them (and Kemi)
    As I said, child benefit can be increased from the savings (most non working mothers will either have a husband with a fat pension and high income or work part time and still pay NI contributions anyway as I also said).

    And what about the ones who have faced domestic violence and have had to abandon the marital home?

    You could take all your ideas and then have a list of exemptions like DOGE and at the end of it, your plan would be as complex as the exiting legislation (as amended by the various judicial reviews).
    HYUFD wants to abolish divorce and go back to the good old days of the 19 ... er, 1630s.
    No I am not the Pope even if I am not keen on no fault divorce
    No, that'd be the *1530s*. I do like to be historically accurate.
    No fault divorce was illegal in England and Wales until 2022 (even Henry VIII divorced Catherine of Aragon on the grounds of fault ie she had not provided him with a son who had survived longer than a few weeks and had now passed the menopause, even if not a very sound one)
    In practice it wasn’t. You just had to wait the required time period post separation.
    Or you had to arrange to be photographed in flagrante with a whore at a seedy south coast boarding house. As far as I'm aware no-one who did was ever charged with perjury or conspiracy.
    The old badger game.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badger_game
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,914
    Scott_xP said:

    How long till Musk/Trump refutes this?

    @generalkellogg
    A long and intense day with the senior leadership of Ukraine. Extensive and positive discussions with @ZelenskyyUa, the embattled and courageous leader of a nation at war and his talented national security team.

    No, Kellogg's off message there. Unless of course Team Trump is deliberately blowing smoke around to confuse everyone. Genius dealmaker that he is.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,398

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Battlebus said:

    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cn489e05k09t?post=asset:7fe04e94-ca4d-4e39-924d-2ef3564757a8#post

    Ed Davey, Liberal Democrat leader, says there should be a new tax on digital services to increase defence immediately, with cross-party talks on going further to reaching 3% of GDP on defence

    Ah, the broadband tax rolls around. Again.
    It's pretty easy. Council tax accounts for about £50 billion, roughly the same as defence spending. Increase it from 0.5% of total house values to 0.75%.

    Alternatively, revenge on Amazon for Bond. The UK gets about 5 billion packages a year delivered to homes. £2 flat tax on that, save the high street etc etc
    Ha!

    So you are going to raise a highly visible tax on housing. And that will be easy?

    And as an encore, massively increase the price of tat?

    The Evul Chav Scum Racist hordes will be revolting over that last one.
    There is a simpler way

    Increase standard rate to 25% reduce or abolish ni for workers and reduce the subsidises for evs which in the main goes to wealthy car buyers
    You are in Facebook la la land. Abolishing NI would cost £170 billion. You'd need to increase income tax by 64%, or from 20% to 33% on the basic rate and 66% on the higher rate just to breakeven.

    I can't find any comprehensive stats on the total value of EV subsidies, but the OBR reckon the Conservatives spent £3 billion over 14 years on it. That's less than 1% of the annualised cost of an increase in defence spending to 3% of GDP.
    So do it, increase Income Tax by enough to replace NI and level the playing field.

    That would still be (net) a tax cut for those working for a living while being a tax rise on those who are not doing so.

    NI is an Income Tax not paid by everyone, it is worse than Income Tax. Taxes should be low but consistently paid by everyone, equalising tax rates so everyone who earns the same amount pays the same tax rate is to be welcomed not warned against.
    No, NI is not an income tax. It is used to determine eligibility for the state pension and JSA now too and should be extended to increasingly fund the NHS and social care not income tax.

    If anything we need more National Insurance and less Income Tax
    Come on, this is factually incorrect as anyone not paying NI at a point can get credits, even if you're claiming £0.00 of job seekers allowance as I would be if out of work.
    So scrap the NI credits (which the second Wilson government introduced to expand welfare dependency) so you can't get state pension unless you have made enough NI contributions in work, otherwise you only get pension credit
    What about your comments about having more babies. So the non-working mother will be penalised for staying at home. You really should avoid commenting on this area unless you understand how it all works.

    When you have finally worked it out, you might actually get a job in government explaining it to them (and Kemi)
    As I said, child benefit can be increased from the savings (most non working mothers will either have a husband with a fat pension and high income or work part time and still pay NI contributions anyway as I also said).

    And what about the ones who have faced domestic violence and have had to abandon the marital home?

    You could take all your ideas and then have a list of exemptions like DOGE and at the end of it, your plan would be as complex as the exiting legislation (as amended by the various judicial reviews).
    HYUFD wants to abolish divorce and go back to the good old days of the 19 ... er, 1630s.
    No I am not the Pope even if I am not keen on no fault divorce
    No, that'd be the *1530s*. I do like to be historically accurate.
    No fault divorce was illegal in England and Wales until 2022 (even Henry VIII divorced Catherine of Aragon on the grounds of fault ie she had not provided him with a son who had survived longer than a few weeks and had now passed the menopause, even if not a very sound one)
    In practice it wasn’t. You just had to wait the required time period post separation.
    Or you had to arrange to be photographed in flagrante with a whore at a seedy south coast boarding house. As far as I'm aware no-one who did was ever charged with perjury or conspiracy.
    I do like the Waugh take on it ...

    http://clothesinbooks.blogspot.com/2013/02/dress-down-sunday-handful-of-dust-by.html
  • Scott_xP said:

    How long till Musk/Trump refutes this?

    @generalkellogg
    A long and intense day with the senior leadership of Ukraine. Extensive and positive discussions with @ZelenskyyUa, the embattled and courageous leader of a nation at war and his talented national security team.

    He's clearly being sarcastic and so absolutely in line with the Trump/Must strategy. Or something.

  • eekeek Posts: 29,139
    It’s the pinned tweet at https://x.com/Conservatives so it’s serious and show how well the Tories are dealing with current issues - by completely ignoring them
  • In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,914

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,339
    edited February 21
    stodge said:

    Evening all from Singapore :)

    After 11 weeks in Kiwiland, a real change of pace and my first visit here in 19 years. Capitalism reigns supreme here but it works because society seems so well ordered. While enjoying my SGD 6 chicken and curry rice just now, I mused on the fact the basic shop security mechanisms you see in most British large stores are absent here.

    We have shopping centres on either side of our hotel - both are replete with eateries, many of which look empty most of the time. Western food is overpriced, the local Malay and Indonesian food much cheaper and decent.

    The MRT would win no prizes for comfort but a train every 4-5 minutes works. The Gardens by the Bay are spectacular.

    The thing I most remember about the MRT other than how much of a relief it was to get into the air conditioned carriages was the officious notices everywhere promising $100 billion fines for chewing gun or littering or eating or whatever.

    Just like on the Singapore entry forms instead of "Welcome to Singapore" or whatever that most normal countries have, it has "Remember: Death Penalty for Drug Traffickers" or words to that effect.

    It's a very well-run society but on the whole I'll take English liberalism and shoddiness.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,175
    Out of curiosity: Is there a betting market on a Trump third term?

    If not, why not?

    If so, let me advise all of you -- well, almost all of you -- not to bet on that happening.

    (At odds of a billion to one, I might bet a dollar or two, just for laughs.)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,152
    Carnyx said:

    Wasn't quite expecting that.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24954153.anas-sarwar-copies-tory-plan-elon-musk-style-doge-scotland/?ref=ebbn&nid=1457&u=f140ec39d500193051a33e140c12bd95&date=210225

    “As first minister I will respect every penny of your money. That’s why we will have our own Department of Government Efficiency [Doge] to stop the waste and deliver value for money for you, the taxpayer.”

    How long before they realise DOGE actually means letting loose a nutter with a chainsaw, who'll the lie about how much money he's 'saved' ?
    https://www.npr.org/2025/02/19/nx-s1-5302705/doge-overstates-savings-federal-contracts

    If you really want to spend less, then you make cuts which aren't 'efficiency savings'.

    If you want efficiency, then developing positive rather than perverse incentives is what's needed.

    The latter is harder, and confusing the two is just bullshit propaganda.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,783
    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Who (the more extreme sects anyway) ironically have more in common with the New Republicans of Gilead than they do with the wishy washy Wokesters of Europe.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,631

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    White Christian nationalism?
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 388
    I won't mention again that Badenoch is a dud. However seems the odds of her going are at 8/11. Wonder how many of her MP's have had a nibble in the last month.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,152

    Out of curiosity: Is there a betting market on a Trump third term?

    If not, why not?

    If so, let me advise all of you -- well, almost all of you -- not to bet on that happening.

    (At odds of a billion to one, I might bet a dollar or two, just for laughs.)

    What odds are you offering to PB punters, Jim ?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,613
    I have seen it posited, here and elsewhere, that Trump might be playing a game of hyper-dimensional chess over the deal, and will suddenly come on-side with Ukraine.

    This is why, even if that is what he is doing (*), it is utterly stupid. It is giving a massive boost to Moscow's version of the story, morale, and ambition:

    "The Kremlin has ordered Russian propagandists to declare a supposed “VICTORY over NATO” by the anniversary of Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine on Feb. 24, 2025, based on false narratives about the “WEST's BETRAYAL” and a “US-RUSSIA DEAL.”"

    https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:gzqhucwylp2oah35ra76oyju/post/3lioqw2pt3s2y?ref_src=embed

    (*) It isn't.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,981
    HYUFD said:

    Trump has again raised the issue of him running for a third term.

    Which would require an unlikely GOP landslide in next year's midterms to get the 2/3 majority required in Congress to change the constitutional amendment barring a president running for a third election.

    He is more likely to get the SC to agree he can just not hold another presidential election again, which there isn't a constitutional bar too, though by that unlikely point the US would be near civil war and the blue states breaking away

    Don’t you need 2/3 (?) of states to approve a constitutional change in addition to Congress?

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,631
    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in Birmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,106
    I think it's the high neckline, glasses and beatific smile that's giving me the Whoopi Goldberg in Sister Act vibes for that. Feeling more Kemi-positive than normal as a result!
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,106
    Nigelb said:

    Out of curiosity: Is there a betting market on a Trump third term?

    If not, why not?

    If so, let me advise all of you -- well, almost all of you -- not to bet on that happening.

    (At odds of a billion to one, I might bet a dollar or two, just for laughs.)

    What odds are you offering to PB punters, Jim ?
    I'd want to know how it settles if there's no third term, but just a second term that... goes on and on :wink:
  • eekeek Posts: 29,139
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,914
    edited February 21

    Out of curiosity: Is there a betting market on a Trump third term?

    If not, why not?

    If so, let me advise all of you -- well, almost all of you -- not to bet on that happening.

    (At odds of a billion to one, I might bet a dollar or two, just for laughs.)

    Really? I rate it unlikely but distinctly possible. I'd only need 10/1 to place a few ££ on him still being President at the end of Jan 2029.

    But I rate it more likely that he'll fail to complete this here second term. 3/1 on that would tempt me. Maybe even 5/2.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,631
    HYUFD said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    White Christian nationalism?
    Musk also argues he is the saviour of free speech while Starmer jails social media users
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,981
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump has again raised the issue of him running for a third term.

    Which would require an unlikely GOP landslide in next year's midterms to get the 2/3 majority required in Congress to change the constitutional amendment barring a president running for a third election.

    He is more likely to get the SC to agree he can just not hold another presidential election again, which there isn't a constitutional bar too, though by that unlikely point the US would be near civil war and the blue states breaking away
    If the GOP retained a simple majority in Congress and control of most state legislatures they can decide who constitutes the electoral college, hand pick them and effectively just nominate Trump for a third 4 year term via that college. There is no requirement for all American adults in the constitution to vote for President in a direct vote every 4 years, just for Presidents not to run in an election for more than 2 terms. It would be quite a stretch but the SC would have to argue the EC nominating Trump for
    a 3rd term was therefore not him being elected for a 3rd term
    Technically the EC is an election not a nomination (the voters indicate the composition of the electors in the electoral colleague who then vote for the president)

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,613
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    I disagree with the concept of halal/kosher meat being allowable. But banning bacon? Why? And why just that one branch? What was their decision-making process, and where did the pressure come from.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,631
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,106
    Carnyx said:

    Wasn't quite expecting that.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24954153.anas-sarwar-copies-tory-plan-elon-musk-style-doge-scotland/?ref=ebbn&nid=1457&u=f140ec39d500193051a33e140c12bd95&date=210225

    “As first minister I will respect every penny of your money. That’s why we will have our own Department of Government Efficiency [Doge] to stop the waste and deliver value for money for you, the taxpayer.”

    My mind inserted a 'never' before 'have' when I first read that. It made a lot more sense that way.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,914
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    White Christian nationalism?
    Musk also argues he is the saviour of free speech while Starmer jails social media users
    Which is a joke. Musk wants to control public discourse not liberate it.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,708
    edited February 21

    I have seen it posited, here and elsewhere, that Trump might be playing a game of hyper-dimensional chess over the deal, and will suddenly come on-side with Ukraine.

    This is why, even if that is what he is doing (*), it is utterly stupid. It is giving a massive boost to Moscow's version of the story, morale, and ambition:

    "The Kremlin has ordered Russian propagandists to declare a supposed “VICTORY over NATO” by the anniversary of Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine on Feb. 24, 2025, based on false narratives about the “WEST's BETRAYAL” and a “US-RUSSIA DEAL.”"

    https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:gzqhucwylp2oah35ra76oyju/post/3lioqw2pt3s2y?ref_src=embed

    (*) It isn't.

    He may well swap sides again. It seems like a financial shakedown, either Ukraines minerals or Russia's oil and a facilitated return of global brands to the Russian market. Which country will "win" depends not on the rights or wrongs of the situation, nor what a pragmatic or stable solution looks like, but who will offer the godfather the biggest tribute.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,139
    Battlebus said:

    I won't mention again that Badenoch is a dud. However seems the odds of her going are at 8/11. Wonder how many of her MP's have had a nibble in the last month.

    The odds of her leaving eventually is 100%. So the 8/11 odds most have an end date against them and Kemi is safe until late November at which point the letters can be counted
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,663

    I have seen it posited, here and elsewhere, that Trump might be playing a game of hyper-dimensional chess over the deal, and will suddenly come on-side with Ukraine.

    @gtconway.bsky.social‬

    He’s not capable of playing multidimensional chess. Or chess. Or checkers. Or tic-tac-toe. As one of his aides put it during Shit Show I, “he’s just eating the pieces” on the board.

    Nothing he does is strategic. He’s purely guided by narcissistic, sociopathic impulses at all times.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,612
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Not only Brum, there’s another three that do. Also ban booze too.

    If that’s what the customer demand is what’s the issue ?

    Got to keep the customer satisfied

    https://x.com/dshensmith/status/1892867913075310880?s=61

  • TazTaz Posts: 16,612

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    I disagree with the concept of halal/kosher meat being allowable. But banning bacon? Why? And why just that one branch? What was their decision-making process, and where did the pressure come from.
    It’s not one branch, it is several.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,152

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    I disagree with the concept of halal/kosher meat being allowable. But banning bacon? Why? And why just that one branch? What was their decision-making process, and where did the pressure come from.
    Presumably because there's no economic way of keeping it separate from the halal food ?

    The pressure is likely (as noted above) economic.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,914
    edited February 21
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in Birmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380
    There you go - Western civilisation under threat.

    We have to fight
    For the right
    To (a bacon) saaaarnie
  • eekeek Posts: 29,139
    edited February 21
    I see my (and all UK) apple accounts are now going to be a target for hackers given that Apple have pulled encryption for UK customers.

    Thanks whoever was responsible - you haven’t a clue what you are doing

    https://9to5mac.com/2025/02/21/apple-removing-end-to-encryption-uk/
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,612
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in Birmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    Does halal meat taste different to haram meat ?

    Don’t get the objection myself. As long as it’s tasty I’ll eat it. If I eat halal meat I’m not suddenly going to become an observant muslim. The objections are nonsense.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,821
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    White Christian nationalism?
    Musk also argues he is the saviour of free speech while Starmer jails social media users
    I'm not sure whether you're saying that "Starmer jails social media users", or you're saying that Musk is saying it. If you're saying it, you really have lost contact with reality.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,152

    Out of curiosity: Is there a betting market on a Trump third term?

    If not, why not?

    If so, let me advise all of you -- well, almost all of you -- not to bet on that happening.

    (At odds of a billion to one, I might bet a dollar or two, just for laughs.)

    Also, this.

    What's great about Kafka is that this basically happens in the story—the first thought Gregor has, after discovering he's become a bug, isn't "oh no i'm a bug now," but "can i take a later train and still make it to work on time?"
    https://x.com/bartlebytaco/status/1892213024791896334
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,612
    eek said:

    I see my (and all UK) apple accounts are now going to be a target for hackers given that Apple have pulled encryption for UK customers.

    Thanks whoever was responsible - you haven’t a clue what you are doing

    The U.K. govt and it’s demands of apple according to posts on social media. If any of our Tesh posters have more detail it would be appreciated.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,981
    Which parts of

    - reject self-doubt
    - defend free speech
    - Secure our borders
    - restore national pride

    Do you disagree with? It’s a crap advert and the message is a bit motherhood & apple pie but it’s not intrinsically bad
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,237
    eek said:

    I see my (and all UK) apple accounts are now going to be a target for hackers given that Apple have pulled encryption for UK customers.

    Thanks whoever was responsible - you haven’t a clue what you are doing

    FFS!
  • eekeek Posts: 29,139
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
  • Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Not only Brum, there’s another three that do. Also ban booze too.

    If that’s what the customer demand is what’s the issue ?

    Got to keep the customer satisfied

    https://x.com/dshensmith/status/1892867913075310880?s=61

    Free market, they should be free to do whatever their customers want.

    I just wouldn't want it myself (and I do sometimes shop there, just not in my local branches not those ones). I always have the bacon if I'm there, and if it was removed I'd go shop elsewhere.

    I just wouldn't want it to be what most people want so that becomes more common, though I've met more people wanting to get meat removed from meals due to vegan beliefs than religious ones.

    PS they're one of the few big brands where you can get a keto burger, you can get their bacon cheeseburger bunless as an option.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,612
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    I disagree with the concept of halal/kosher meat being allowable. But banning bacon? Why? And why just that one branch? What was their decision-making process, and where did the pressure come from.
    Presumably because there's no economic way of keeping it separate from the halal food ?

    The pressure is likely (as noted above) economic.
    When we were in Dubai, and they now sell it in my local Saisnburys, we had Turkey bacon and it was lovely. They could offer that. Perhaps.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,152
    eek said:

    I see my (and all UK) apple accounts are now going to be a target for hackers given that Apple have pulled encryption for UK customers.

    Thanks whoever was responsible - you haven’t a clue what you are doing

    Isn't that thanks to our own government ?

    And, agreed. It's imbecilic.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,237
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in Birmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    Does halal meat taste different to haram meat ?

    Don’t get the objection myself. As long as it’s tasty I’ll eat it. If I eat halal meat I’m not suddenly going to become an observant muslim. The objections are nonsense.
    Halal meat is only halal if the slaughterman is a Muslim who says the right magic words. It’s protectionism and job creation for a minority group.
  • kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in Birmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380
    There you go - Western civilisation under threat.

    We have to fight
    For the right
    To (a bacon) saaaarnie
    Sign me up!
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,981

    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    Trump has again raised the issue of him running for a third term.

    I don't think he'll get through his second.
    Yeah. We've heard that one before. He'll be in jail. He's going bankrupt. His wig will fall off. He'll never get re-elected.

    Unless he dies, which would be mega-LOL, he is going fucking nowhere in 2028. He doesn't give a fuck about of the Constitution.
    That's about the size of it. Of course, he can use some of the mechanisms of the Constitution to subvert others. A pliant Supreme Court is all that is really needed as it can rewrite the Constitution entirely through reinterpretation. Congress might as well pack up and go home.
    The Justices have interpreted the Constitution in a conservative direction, they haven't completely disregarded what it says and the 22nd amendment is clear 'No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice'
    It doesn't say anything about third terms they've not been elected to serve.
    Would the easiest be an extension of term limits? Are they specified in the constitution?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,438
    My favourite MAGA, @MonsieurZ, on the Putin/Trump negotiations

    "What Do Trump & Putin's Talks REALLY Mean?", https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ic3rnhlSkw (12 mins)
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,612

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Not only Brum, there’s another three that do. Also ban booze too.

    If that’s what the customer demand is what’s the issue ?

    Got to keep the customer satisfied

    https://x.com/dshensmith/status/1892867913075310880?s=61

    Free market, they should be free to do whatever their customers want.

    I just wouldn't want it myself (and I do sometimes shop there, just not in my local branches not those ones). I always have the bacon if I'm there, and if it was removed I'd go shop elsewhere.

    I just wouldn't want it to be what most people want so that becomes more common, though I've met more people wanting to get meat removed from meals due to vegan beliefs than religious ones.

    PS they're one of the few big brands where you can get a keto burger, you can get their bacon cheeseburger bunless as an option.
    I wonder how many people complaining about this have ever visited the branches in question. I agree with you. It’s a free market and they are responding to customer demand.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,914

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Who (the more extreme sects anyway) ironically have more in common with the New Republicans of Gilead than they do with the wishy washy Wokesters of Europe.
    Yep. Lots for your alt right hard misogynists to like about radical islam. The old "horseshoe" in operation there.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,139
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    I see my (and all UK) apple accounts are now going to be a target for hackers given that Apple have pulled encryption for UK customers.

    Thanks whoever was responsible - you haven’t a clue what you are doing

    Isn't that thanks to our own government ?

    And, agreed. It's imbecilic.
    Yep - as I said the issue has little to do with Apple and everything to do with our Government not having a clue how the modern world works - yes GCHQ can’t access stuff but the benefits out way the risks of making GCHQs life easier
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,152
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in Birmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    Does halal meat taste different to haram meat ?

    Don’t get the objection myself. As long as it’s tasty I’ll eat it. If I eat halal meat I’m not suddenly going to become an observant muslim. The objections are nonsense.
    Objections are twofold, I think.
    One is (eg) what the **** happened to my bacon ?
    The other is a principled objection to supporting with your business what you see as an unacceptable slaughter method.

    As I've more or less given up bacon (too much salt), it doesn't concern me either.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,612
    Foss said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in Birmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    Does halal meat taste different to haram meat ?

    Don’t get the objection myself. As long as it’s tasty I’ll eat it. If I eat halal meat I’m not suddenly going to become an observant muslim. The objections are nonsense.
    Halal meat is only halal if the slaughterman is a Muslim who says the right magic words. It’s protectionism and job creation for a minority group.
    As demand increases supply of Slaughtermen with the right religious credentials will increase.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,439
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Who (the more extreme sects anyway) ironically have more in common with the New Republicans of Gilead than they do with the wishy washy Wokesters of Europe.
    Yep. Lots for your alt right hard misogynists to like about radical islam. The old "horseshoe" in operation there.
    And yet you will rail against the hard right and do fuck all about mass Muslim migratiion into the UK. Why is that?
  • Taz said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Not only Brum, there’s another three that do. Also ban booze too.

    If that’s what the customer demand is what’s the issue ?

    Got to keep the customer satisfied

    https://x.com/dshensmith/status/1892867913075310880?s=61

    Free market, they should be free to do whatever their customers want.

    I just wouldn't want it myself (and I do sometimes shop there, just not in my local branches not those ones). I always have the bacon if I'm there, and if it was removed I'd go shop elsewhere.

    I just wouldn't want it to be what most people want so that becomes more common, though I've met more people wanting to get meat removed from meals due to vegan beliefs than religious ones.

    PS they're one of the few big brands where you can get a keto burger, you can get their bacon cheeseburger bunless as an option.
    I wonder how many people complaining about this have ever visited the branches in question. I agree with you. It’s a free market and they are responding to customer demand.

    I suppose some people might be concerned why customers are demanding this, since bacon and alcohol are two of the greatest things you can get.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,957

    Which parts of

    - reject self-doubt
    - defend free speech
    - Secure our borders
    - restore national pride

    Do you disagree with? It’s a crap advert and the message is a bit motherhood & apple pie but it’s not intrinsically bad
    If Kemi had a little more self doubt or reflection she might learn a few things, such as this ad is weird. You can vote Labour, Lib Dem whatever and still agree with all of the above. Western civilisation is not owned by one party. That’s almost precisely the point of western civilisation.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,233
    edited February 21
    Have we done Mr Chump identifying which are the reliable news outlets?

    He's issued a memo instructing cancellations of all subscriptions in diplomatic posts worldwide to identified publications, except by exception:

    Another reported memo, sent on 14 February, told relevant staff to make it a priority to cancel such mainstream media outlets as the Economist, the New York Times, Politico, Bloomberg News, the Associated Press and Reuters, the Post said.

    Staff who object to cancelling a subscription can apply to keep it but must briefly put forward strong justifications.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/19/state-department-media-subscriptions-cancelled
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,612

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Not only Brum, there’s another three that do. Also ban booze too.

    If that’s what the customer demand is what’s the issue ?

    Got to keep the customer satisfied

    https://x.com/dshensmith/status/1892867913075310880?s=61

    Free market, they should be free to do whatever their customers want.

    I just wouldn't want it myself (and I do sometimes shop there, just not in my local branches not those ones). I always have the bacon if I'm there, and if it was removed I'd go shop elsewhere.

    I just wouldn't want it to be what most people want so that becomes more common, though I've met more people wanting to get meat removed from meals due to vegan beliefs than religious ones.

    PS they're one of the few big brands where you can get a keto burger, you can get their bacon cheeseburger bunless as an option.
    I wonder how many people complaining about this have ever visited the branches in question. I agree with you. It’s a free market and they are responding to customer demand.

    I suppose some people might be concerned why customers are demanding this, since bacon and alcohol are two of the greatest things you can get.
    On that you’ll get no argument from me, we always have a pack in the fridge, and my niece would, when younger, happily live on bacon sandwiches and vodka.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,914

    Which parts of

    - reject self-doubt
    - defend free speech
    - Secure our borders
    - restore national pride

    Do you disagree with? It’s a crap advert and the message is a bit motherhood & apple pie but it’s not intrinsically bad
    I do not like the sound of "reject self-doubt". What is that supposed to mean? We all go around thinking we're the bees knees?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,237
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    I see my (and all UK) apple accounts are now going to be a target for hackers given that Apple have pulled encryption for UK customers.

    Thanks whoever was responsible - you haven’t a clue what you are doing

    Isn't that thanks to our own government ?

    And, agreed. It's imbecilic.
    Indeed. Although worth nothing that most people are not on "Advanced Data Protection" at the moment, because you have to manually turn it on. So it's not actually getting worse for most people:

    https://support.apple.com/en-gb/108756
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,438
    Jonathan said:

    Which parts of

    - reject self-doubt
    - defend free speech
    - Secure our borders
    - restore national pride

    Do you disagree with? It’s a crap advert and the message is a bit motherhood & apple pie but it’s not intrinsically bad
    If Kemi had a little more self doubt or reflection she might learn a few things, such as this ad is weird. You can vote Labour, Lib Dem whatever and still agree with all of the above. Western civilisation is not owned by one party. That’s almost precisely the point of western civilisation.
    No you don't understand! Woke is destroying everything! It's the Number #1 priority! Never mind the death of the West and the gutting of NATO, it's the DEI lead in the University of Sheffield! PEOPLE ARE USING PRONOUNS! DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND! IT'S LIFE OR DEATH!

  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,106
    Taz said:

    eek said:

    I see my (and all UK) apple accounts are now going to be a target for hackers given that Apple have pulled encryption for UK customers.

    Thanks whoever was responsible - you haven’t a clue what you are doing

    The U.K. govt and it’s demands of apple according to posts on social media. If any of our Tesh posters have more detail it would be appreciated.
    Be interesting to see whether third party apps will pop up in the app store to automatically encrypt before backup to Apple (and if Apple allow that).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,631
    edited February 21
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars and non halal meat butchers banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,477
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Stick with a pork parmo. No risk of barbaric slaughter practices.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,152

    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    Trump has again raised the issue of him running for a third term.

    I don't think he'll get through his second.
    Yeah. We've heard that one before. He'll be in jail. He's going bankrupt. His wig will fall off. He'll never get re-elected.

    Unless he dies, which would be mega-LOL, he is going fucking nowhere in 2028. He doesn't give a fuck about of the Constitution.
    That's about the size of it. Of course, he can use some of the mechanisms of the Constitution to subvert others. A pliant Supreme Court is all that is really needed as it can rewrite the Constitution entirely through reinterpretation. Congress might as well pack up and go home.
    The Justices have interpreted the Constitution in a conservative direction, they haven't completely disregarded what it says and the 22nd amendment is clear 'No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice'
    It doesn't say anything about third terms they've not been elected to serve.
    Would the easiest be an extension of term limits? Are they specified in the constitution?
    They are, unless you mangle it way beyond what even the current court is likely to do.

    A state of emergency declaration, 'temporarily' suspending the constitution, would be much simpler.
    As a fait accompli, anything the courts had to say about it wouldn't much matter.

    As an indication of which way they're thinking, see the recent Executive Order which purports to impose the President as sole arbiter of how the constitution should be interpreted by the Justice Department.
    An executive prepared to issue that order wouldn't baulk at extending that (constitutionally absurd) principle.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,223
    viewcode said:

    Jonathan said:

    Which parts of

    - reject self-doubt
    - defend free speech
    - Secure our borders
    - restore national pride

    Do you disagree with? It’s a crap advert and the message is a bit motherhood & apple pie but it’s not intrinsically bad
    If Kemi had a little more self doubt or reflection she might learn a few things, such as this ad is weird. You can vote Labour, Lib Dem whatever and still agree with all of the above. Western civilisation is not owned by one party. That’s almost precisely the point of western civilisation.
    No you don't understand! Woke is destroying everything! It's the Number #1 priority! Never mind the death of the West and the gutting of NATO, it's the DEI lead in the University of Sheffield! PEOPLE ARE USING PRONOUNS! DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND! IT'S LIFE OR DEATH!

    The timing is particular bonkers. They launch this ad in the week when the 'West' is in turmoil as the leader of the free world becomes a Russian asset.

  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,237
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    No-one's banning anything. You don't have to go there.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,835
    have we had this?

    https://www.rfi.fr/fr/en-bref/20250221-jordan-bardella-annule-son-intervention-à-la-conférence-d-action-politique-conservatrice-cpac-à-washington-après-le-geste-de-steve-bannon

    Jordan Bardella cancels his speech at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) in Washington after Steve Bannon's gesture
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,914
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Who (the more extreme sects anyway) ironically have more in common with the New Republicans of Gilead than they do with the wishy washy Wokesters of Europe.
    Yep. Lots for your alt right hard misogynists to like about radical islam. The old "horseshoe" in operation there.
    And yet you will rail against the hard right and do fuck all about mass Muslim migratiion into the UK. Why is that?
    Well only one of those is in my power to do (and I enjoy it). But even if I could change our immigration rules to exclude Muslims, I wouldn't. Because I'm not prejudiced against them.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,612
    MattW said:

    Have we done Mr Chump identifying which are the reliable news outlets?

    He's issued a memo instructing cancellations of all subscriptions in diplomatic posts worldwide to identified publications, except by exception:

    Another reported memo, sent on 14 February, told relevant staff to make it a priority to cancel such mainstream media outlets as the Economist, the New York Times, Politico, Bloomberg News, the Associated Press and Reuters, the Post said.

    Staff who object to cancelling a subscription can apply to keep it but must briefly put forward strong justifications.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/19/state-department-media-subscriptions-cancelled

    A few weeks ago you mentioned that black belt barrister chap, and I did a search on him. From time to time he crops up on my twitter feed.

    I see what you mean.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,152
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Not only Brum, there’s another three that do. Also ban booze too.

    If that’s what the customer demand is what’s the issue ?

    Got to keep the customer satisfied

    https://x.com/dshensmith/status/1892867913075310880?s=61

    Free market, they should be free to do whatever their customers want.

    I just wouldn't want it myself (and I do sometimes shop there, just not in my local branches not those ones). I always have the bacon if I'm there, and if it was removed I'd go shop elsewhere.

    I just wouldn't want it to be what most people want so that becomes more common, though I've met more people wanting to get meat removed from meals due to vegan beliefs than religious ones.

    PS they're one of the few big brands where you can get a keto burger, you can get their bacon cheeseburger bunless as an option.
    I wonder how many people complaining about this have ever visited the branches in question. I agree with you. It’s a free market and they are responding to customer demand.

    I suppose some people might be concerned why customers are demanding this, since bacon and alcohol are two of the greatest things you can get.
    On that you’ll get no argument from me, we always have a pack in the fridge, and my niece would, when younger, happily live on bacon sandwiches and vodka.
    As would we all.
    Though I always preferred whisky.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,953
    Selebian said:

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    I see my (and all UK) apple accounts are now going to be a target for hackers given that Apple have pulled encryption for UK customers.

    Thanks whoever was responsible - you haven’t a clue what you are doing

    The U.K. govt and it’s demands of apple according to posts on social media. If any of our Tesh posters have more detail it would be appreciated.
    Be interesting to see whether third party apps will pop up in the app store to automatically encrypt before backup to Apple (and if Apple allow that).
    The government passed a law. A stupid law.

    Apple is obeying the law.
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