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Farage remains the favourite to become our next Prime Minister – politicalbetting.com

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  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,223
    edited February 21
    MattW said:

    Have we done Mr Chump identifying which are the reliable news outlets?

    He's issued a memo instructing cancellations of all subscriptions in diplomatic posts worldwide to identified publications, except by exception:

    Another reported memo, sent on 14 February, told relevant staff to make it a priority to cancel such mainstream media outlets as the Economist, the New York Times, Politico, Bloomberg News, the Associated Press and Reuters, the Post said.

    Staff who object to cancelling a subscription can apply to keep it but must briefly put forward strong justifications.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/19/state-department-media-subscriptions-cancelled

    All subscriptions to be made into Pravda subscriptions?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,438
    kamski said:

    have we had this?

    https://www.rfi.fr/fr/en-bref/20250221-jordan-bardella-annule-son-intervention-à-la-conférence-d-action-politique-conservatrice-cpac-à-washington-après-le-geste-de-steve-bannon

    Jordan Bardella cancels his speech at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) in Washington after Steve Bannon's gesture

    I love the fact that the National Rally thinks Steve Bannon too right wing. The times are changing
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,151
    kinabalu said:

    Which parts of

    - reject self-doubt
    - defend free speech
    - Secure our borders
    - restore national pride

    Do you disagree with? It’s a crap advert and the message is a bit motherhood & apple pie but it’s not intrinsically bad
    I do not like the sound of "reject self-doubt". What is that supposed to mean? We all go around thinking we're the bees knees?
    Rather than a general prescription, she's trying to persuade herself of that, I think.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,173
    Looking at the enormous scale of the problems assaulting us from every direction at once - the demographic disaster, mass migration, AI, obesity, the housing crisis, the climate crisis, autocratic empires, and now the sudden and total implosion of the western alliance after eighty years - I don't see how anything remotely resembling the world we have known survives the century. It might not last out 2025 at the rate we're going. And regardless of what the exact nature of the new dispensation is, I'm certain that it will be immeasurably, likely intolerably, worse. The game is up people. Progress is over. It's all downhill from hereon in.

    That's me done here. I'm off to listen to good music, watch sports, play Civ (VI, not VII, at least until they've fixed the bugs,) stuff myself with good meals and enjoy life whilst I can, before everything goes to Hell in a handcart. I can't do anything about the world and its problems except worry myself sick so from now on, the less time spent thinking about them and the more ignoring them, the better. Au revoir.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,541
    edited February 21
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars and non halal meat butchers banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    What next? Probably lab-grown meat.

    I'm convinced we will look back on rearing and eating animals in the same way we do slavery. Not going to stop me though, except I'm a bit environmentally conscious, and try to avoid mammals if I can.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,169
    edited February 21

    Selebian said:

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    I see my (and all UK) apple accounts are now going to be a target for hackers given that Apple have pulled encryption for UK customers.

    Thanks whoever was responsible - you haven’t a clue what you are doing

    The U.K. govt and it’s demands of apple according to posts on social media. If any of our Tesh posters have more detail it would be appreciated.
    Be interesting to see whether third party apps will pop up in the app store to automatically encrypt before backup to Apple (and if Apple allow that).
    The government passed a law. A stupid law.

    Apple is obeying the law.
    Well strictly they aren't doing what was asked, put a backdoor in Advanced Data Protection with a global scope, instead they are pulling the service in the UK, because doing what the government wanted would be nuts.

    Practically it won't make much difference to most users as ADP is an optional feature with some downsides, and most people don't use it.

    But the people who do need ADP, like lawyers, NGOs, people with jobs that makes them a target for intelligence operations, are now left having to use other ways of securing their data end-to-end.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,106
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars and non halal meat butchers banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    It's a business decision. People who want non-Halal meat, alcohol or bacon can take their business elsewhere. In areas with high Muslim populations, I would guess pubs don't do super well and churches may be closed if lack of attendance but mosques probably do well. It's all demand.

    If there are enough people willing to boycott Five Guys generally, then it will be a bad business decision and presumably reversed/these locations closed (or quietly rebranded as a definitely not Five Guys outlet with a nonetheless similar but halal and alcohol and bacon-free menu - Five Rijaal, maybe :wink: )
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,688
    The world's gone shit precisely because of those who reject self doubt.
    So I reject it. And them. And her. And their mates.
    I have no doubt about that.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,469
    edited February 21
    Good afternoon

    Trump's antagonism to Zelensky seems to be over access to Ukraine's mineral wealth and apparently Waltz has said this afternoon Zelensky will sign the minerals deal with the US

    Make of that what you will
  • eekeek Posts: 29,139
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars and non halal meat butchers banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    It’s supply and demand - chances are the churches, pubs and bars are closing because their customers have found closer establishments
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,398
    edited February 21
    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    Wasn't quite expecting that.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24954153.anas-sarwar-copies-tory-plan-elon-musk-style-doge-scotland/?ref=ebbn&nid=1457&u=f140ec39d500193051a33e140c12bd95&date=210225

    “As first minister I will respect every penny of your money. That’s why we will have our own Department of Government Efficiency [Doge] to stop the waste and deliver value for money for you, the taxpayer.”

    How long before they realise DOGE actually means letting loose a nutter with a chainsaw, who'll the lie about how much money he's 'saved' ?
    https://www.npr.org/2025/02/19/nx-s1-5302705/doge-overstates-savings-federal-contracts

    If you really want to spend less, then you make cuts which aren't 'efficiency savings'.

    If you want efficiency, then developing positive rather than perverse incentives is what's needed.

    The latter is harder, and confusing the two is just bullshit propaganda.
    It actually seems to make perfect sense if Mr S wants Reform to vote him in as First Minister because Union or something (or Reform voters to switch (back?) to Slab, which is much the same thing).

    The unanswered question seems to be how the other Slab voters react.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,438
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Who (the more extreme sects anyway) ironically have more in common with the New Republicans of Gilead than they do with the wishy washy Wokesters of Europe.
    Yep. Lots for your alt right hard misogynists to like about radical islam. The old "horseshoe" in operation there.
    And yet you will rail against the hard right and do fuck all about mass Muslim migratiion into the UK. Why is that?
    Well only one of those is in my power to do (and I enjoy it). But even if I could change our immigration rules to exclude Muslims, I wouldn't. Because I'm not prejudiced against them.
    Unfortunately, many of them are prejudiced against YOU, as a quasi gay

    One of my best and oldest friends is very gay, he came out about 30 years ago. I love him dearly, albeit not physically (not my scene)

    He is the most liberal libby lib-lib you can magine, he atually votes Lib Dem, he's a confirmed Remoaner, super-multi-kulti

    etc

    For decades he has decried my political views as proto-Nazi, borderline racist, All Migrants are Great, etc (we have aways set our politics aside from our friendship, as one should)

    In the last few years -maybe even the last two years, it is is that sudden - he has entirely changed his tune. He now sees migration as a threat to his gay freedoms (through seeing gay friends threatened or harrassed by migrants), he worries about all migration but his big big fear is Muslim migration. He thinks if it continues we will see homosexuality slowly illegalised just as we have slowly allowed de facto blasphemy laws to emerge

    You are too stupid, narrow minded and cowardly to follow his mental journey, but I offer it out of sheer generosity
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,688
    It isn't a "gesture".
    It's a Nazi salute.
    Like the one Nazis do.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,491

    Good afternoon

    Trump's antagonism to Zelensky seems to be over access to Ukraine's mineral wealth and apparently Waltz has said this afternoon Zelensky will sign the minerals deal with the US

    Make of that what ypu will

    Have the Americans volunteered to defend it from Putin, or agreed to split it with him?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,806
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in Birmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    Does halal meat taste different to haram meat ?

    Don’t get the objection myself. As long as it’s tasty I’ll eat it. If I eat halal meat I’m not suddenly going to become an observant muslim. The objections are nonsense.
    It is a less humane form of animal slaughter.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,914
    pigeon said:

    Looking at the enormous scale of the problems assaulting us from every direction at once - the demographic disaster, mass migration, AI, obesity, the housing crisis, the climate crisis, autocratic empires, and now the sudden and total implosion of the western alliance after eighty years - I don't see how anything remotely resembling the world we have known survives the century. It might not last out 2025 at the rate we're going. And regardless of what the exact nature of the new dispensation is, I'm certain that it will be immeasurably, likely intolerably, worse. The game is up people. Progress is over. It's all downhill from hereon in.

    That's me done here. I'm off to listen to good music, watch sports, play Civ (VI, not VII, at least until they've fixed the bugs,) stuff myself with good meals and enjoy life whilst I can, before everything goes to Hell in a handcart. I can't do anything about the world and its problems except worry myself sick so from now on, the less time spent thinking about them and the more ignoring them, the better. Au revoir.

    That gets a :) and a :(

    You've done some great posts since I've been here. Almost your own genre.

    Go well.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,438
    ...
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,491
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars and non halal meat butchers banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    I've often thought there could be a business opportunity for "Christian Meat" that died a natural death in a field full of buttercups.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,139
    I wonder if Ukraine offered Trump 50% of the minerals in Crimea he would send his troops in to collect it from Russia
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,086

    Good afternoon

    Trump's antagonism to Zelensky seems to be over access to Ukraine's mineral wealth and apparently Waltz has said this afternoon Zelensky will sign the minerals deal with the US

    Make of that what ypu will

    They apparently came up with a better offer. But I hope Ukraine have managed to negotiate meaningful terms on this, and made it conditional on proper support and security guarantees.

    If it’s the same extortion they tried first time then it goes nowhere anyway. Either Ukraine loses to Russia and those minerals never appear, or it reaches a peace deal, there’s a new Ukrainian government and they renege on the extortion.
  • Good afternoon

    Trump's antagonism to Zelensky seems to be over access to Ukraine's mineral wealth and apparently Waltz has said this afternoon Zelensky will sign the minerals deal with the US

    Make of that what ypu will

    Have the Americans volunteered to defend it from Putin, or agreed to split it with him?
    I really have no idea but Trump did say there is 500 billion dollars of minerals in Ukraine and as the US has given Ukraine 350 billion in military support he wants the minerals !!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,631
    viewcode said:

    kamski said:

    have we had this?

    https://www.rfi.fr/fr/en-bref/20250221-jordan-bardella-annule-son-intervention-à-la-conférence-d-action-politique-conservatrice-cpac-à-washington-après-le-geste-de-steve-bannon

    Jordan Bardella cancels his speech at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) in Washington after Steve Bannon's gesture

    I love the fact that the National Rally thinks Steve Bannon too right wing. The times are changing
    Though Bannon thinks Musk is racist

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jan/12/steve-bannon-calls-elon-musk-racist
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,438
    pigeon said:

    Looking at the enormous scale of the problems assaulting us from every direction at once - the demographic disaster, mass migration, AI, obesity, the housing crisis, the climate crisis, autocratic empires, and now the sudden and total implosion of the western alliance after eighty years - I don't see how anything remotely resembling the world we have known survives the century. It might not last out 2025 at the rate we're going. And regardless of what the exact nature of the new dispensation is, I'm certain that it will be immeasurably, likely intolerably, worse. The game is up people. Progress is over. It's all downhill from hereon in.

    That's me done here. I'm off to listen to good music, watch sports, play Civ (VI, not VII, at least until they've fixed the bugs,) stuff myself with good meals and enjoy life whilst I can, before everything goes to Hell in a handcart. I can't do anything about the world and its problems except worry myself sick so from now on, the less time spent thinking about them and the more ignoring them, the better. Au revoir.

    That's a shame, you are one of the few PB Lefties willing to admit there are horrific problems with things like migration

    However, you express your reasons for quitting very eloquently. This is a Good Flounce, 8.3/10

    I hope you return in time, but if not Fare Thee Well
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,469
    edited February 21
    dixiedean said:

    It isn't a "gesture".
    It's a Nazi salute.
    Like the one Nazis do.

    And we have 4 more years of this and possibly 4 more
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,631
    carnforth said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    No-one's banning anything. You don't have to go there.
    Five Guys have literally banned sale of bacon in their restaurants in areas with significant Muslim populations
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,914
    viewcode said:

    kamski said:

    have we had this?

    https://www.rfi.fr/fr/en-bref/20250221-jordan-bardella-annule-son-intervention-à-la-conférence-d-action-politique-conservatrice-cpac-à-washington-après-le-geste-de-steve-bannon

    Jordan Bardella cancels his speech at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) in Washington after Steve Bannon's gesture

    I love the fact that the National Rally thinks Steve Bannon too right wing. The times are changing
    They also shy away from the AfD. LePen is a great big softy of a fascist. Needs to watch her right flank.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,803
    HYUFD said:

    carnforth said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    No-one's banning anything. You don't have to go there.
    Five Guys have literally banned sale of bacon in their restaurants in areas with significant Muslim populations
    No, they have literally decided not to sell bacon in certain restaurants, probably due to low demand. Good grief.

    The same way Tesco doesn’t ban the sale of certain brands when it decides not to stock them anymore.
  • TimS said:

    Good afternoon

    Trump's antagonism to Zelensky seems to be over access to Ukraine's mineral wealth and apparently Waltz has said this afternoon Zelensky will sign the minerals deal with the US

    Make of that what ypu will

    They apparently came up with a better offer. But I hope Ukraine have managed to negotiate meaningful terms on this, and made it conditional on proper support and security guarantees.

    If it’s the same extortion they tried first time then it goes nowhere anyway. Either Ukraine loses to Russia and those minerals never appear, or it reaches a peace deal, there’s a new Ukrainian government and they renege on the extortion.
    Fair summary

    It is all so crazy
  • HYUFD said:

    carnforth said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    No-one's banning anything. You don't have to go there.
    Five Guys have literally banned sale of bacon in their restaurants in areas with significant Muslim populations
    What is "significant"?
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 796

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in Birmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    Does halal meat taste different to haram meat ?

    Don’t get the objection myself. As long as it’s tasty I’ll eat it. If I eat halal meat I’m not suddenly going to become an observant muslim. The objections are nonsense.
    It is a less humane form of animal slaughter.
    Animal welfare probably isn't the foremost consideration of burger restaurants' clientele, though apparently halal slaughter can allow pre-stunning but kosher doesn't.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,438
    I you want something a little light and fluffy in this horrible mess, here is the Tank Museum YouTube on the Matilda II tank https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl7QmlNpXQc
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,233
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Have we done Mr Chump identifying which are the reliable news outlets?

    He's issued a memo instructing cancellations of all subscriptions in diplomatic posts worldwide to identified publications, except by exception:

    Another reported memo, sent on 14 February, told relevant staff to make it a priority to cancel such mainstream media outlets as the Economist, the New York Times, Politico, Bloomberg News, the Associated Press and Reuters, the Post said.

    Staff who object to cancelling a subscription can apply to keep it but must briefly put forward strong justifications.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/19/state-department-media-subscriptions-cancelled

    A few weeks ago you mentioned that black belt barrister chap, and I did a search on him. From time to time he crops up on my twitter feed.

    I see what you mean.
    I can't get why he's gone that way. It's either rabbit hole or Daily Mail style driving for audience clicks.

    He comes across as really bright.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,641
    pigeon said:

    Looking at the enormous scale of the problems assaulting us from every direction at once - the demographic disaster, mass migration, AI, obesity, the housing crisis, the climate crisis, autocratic empires, and now the sudden and total implosion of the western alliance after eighty years - I don't see how anything remotely resembling the world we have known survives the century. It might not last out 2025 at the rate we're going. And regardless of what the exact nature of the new dispensation is, I'm certain that it will be immeasurably, likely intolerably, worse. The game is up people. Progress is over. It's all downhill from hereon in.

    That's me done here. I'm off to listen to good music, watch sports, play Civ (VI, not VII, at least until they've fixed the bugs,) stuff myself with good meals and enjoy life whilst I can, before everything goes to Hell in a handcart. I can't do anything about the world and its problems except worry myself sick so from now on, the less time spent thinking about them and the more ignoring them, the better. Au revoir.

    I don't think it's that bad really. If Trump's actions mean Europe finally starts to pay for its own defence, that has to be a good thing.
  • kinabalu said:

    viewcode said:

    kamski said:

    have we had this?

    https://www.rfi.fr/fr/en-bref/20250221-jordan-bardella-annule-son-intervention-à-la-conférence-d-action-politique-conservatrice-cpac-à-washington-après-le-geste-de-steve-bannon

    Jordan Bardella cancels his speech at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) in Washington after Steve Bannon's gesture

    I love the fact that the National Rally thinks Steve Bannon too right wing. The times are changing
    They also shy away from the AfD. LePen is a great big softy of a fascist. Needs to watch her right flank.
    Alternative fur Deutschland or Alternative fur Putin?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,825
    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    Stereodog said:

    Trump has again raised the issue of him running for a third term.

    The next question is will anyone be allowed to run against him, or is it just a confirmatory re-election.......
    Getting ahead of ourselves. Reality is we have had peak Trump. We have had peak MAGA. The season of disruption and Populism is coming to an end all over the world in the coming years.

    MAGA control of GOP was based on Trumps charisma, name recognition, and a lifetime crafting vampire squid takeover and sucking things dry for personal gain - effectively a long built up a brand reputation, now getting sussed and trashed. Last years election win overwhelmingly built upon feeling much better off when Trump was in White House, than under the Dems, and that was wholly down to world wide historic erosion of income rather than something Trump actually achieved. Both Trumps age, fact he has surrounded himself with yes people rather than able people, and a US election system that goes to the will of the people every two years, dismantles MAGA power with every minute that ticks from now.
    Amazing people are still blind to what is happening. The US is on a short path to dictatorship.
    You need to be more precise. What type of regime are you predicting and how do you get from here to there? Trump doing things you don't like or pushing the limits of what his office can do does not constitute a dictatorship.
    Cult of personality of the leader
    Rule by decree
    Not abiding by rules of law
    Intimidation of political opponents
    Control of media and (dis)information
    Flexible facts
    Control of elections
    I don't think the US is on the path to a dictatorship. I think it's on the path to an unequal democracy like Poland or Hungary. It's possible for the opposition to win but it's very difficult and if they do then they have to spend most of their time in office clearing out the place men of the previous regime in the courts and other civic institutions.
    Democracy is coming to an end
    Could the Dark Ages not have waited another few decades? Yet again, the Boomers have had the best of it.
    Boomtastic and left with oodles of cash so no need to queue with the losers for cabbages .
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,398
    edited February 21

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars and non halal meat butchers banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    I've often thought there could be a business opportunity for "Christian Meat" that died a natural death in a field full of buttercups.
    A nice thought, but as you know, of course, illegal to sell. There's a Scots word for it, braxy, no doubt reflecting the inevitable debate on whether to eat it or feed it to the dogs.

    https://www.dsl.ac.uk/entry/snd/braxy
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,223
    How Trump will overturn the two term limit amendment - Part 2:


    Brian Stelter
    @brianstelter
    "In private, Republicans talk about their fear that Trump might incite his MAGA followers to commit political violence against them if they don’t rubber-stamp his actions," ⁦
    @gabrielsherman
    ⁩ writes

    https://x.com/brianstelter/status/1892366742359302431
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 388
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in Birmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    Does halal meat taste different to haram meat ?

    Don’t get the objection myself. As long as it’s tasty I’ll eat it. If I eat halal meat I’m not suddenly going to become an observant muslim. The objections are nonsense.
    As above. No issue with it. However I've read somewhere or seen somewhere that it's the certification process (Kosher/Halal) that's key. It's a way of financing the local Rabbi or Iman by getting them to provide a service.

    Google suggests this example but I am happy to be educated or corrected on the matter

    https://www.kosher.org.uk/article/apply-kosher-licence
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,914
    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    Looking at the enormous scale of the problems assaulting us from every direction at once - the demographic disaster, mass migration, AI, obesity, the housing crisis, the climate crisis, autocratic empires, and now the sudden and total implosion of the western alliance after eighty years - I don't see how anything remotely resembling the world we have known survives the century. It might not last out 2025 at the rate we're going. And regardless of what the exact nature of the new dispensation is, I'm certain that it will be immeasurably, likely intolerably, worse. The game is up people. Progress is over. It's all downhill from hereon in.

    That's me done here. I'm off to listen to good music, watch sports, play Civ (VI, not VII, at least until they've fixed the bugs,) stuff myself with good meals and enjoy life whilst I can, before everything goes to Hell in a handcart. I can't do anything about the world and its problems except worry myself sick so from now on, the less time spent thinking about them and the more ignoring them, the better. Au revoir.

    That's a shame, you are one of the few PB Lefties willing to admit there are horrific problems with things like migration

    However, you express your reasons for quitting very eloquently. This is a Good Flounce, 8.3/10

    I hope you return in time, but if not Fare Thee Well
    Moved left over time, I'd say, as he applied his considerable intellect to what the problems are that we're grappling with - or rather *not* grappling with.
  • Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars and non halal meat butchers banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    What next? Probably lab-grown meat.
    .
    Is it vegan???
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,398
    HYUFD said:

    carnforth said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    No-one's banning anything. You don't have to go there.
    Five Guys have literally banned sale of bacon in their restaurants in areas with significant Muslim populations
    Can't be literally banning, because they aren't banning themselves are they? And I thought you were a Tory and believed in the free market?

    *PBpunctilio*
  • eekeek Posts: 29,139

    Good afternoon

    Trump's antagonism to Zelensky seems to be over access to Ukraine's mineral wealth and apparently Waltz has said this afternoon Zelensky will sign the minerals deal with the US

    Make of that what ypu will

    Have the Americans volunteered to defend it from Putin, or agreed to split it with him?
    I really have no idea but Trump did say there is 500 billion dollars of minerals in Ukraine and as the US has given Ukraine 350 billion in military support he wants the minerals !!
    He hasn’t given them $350bn and the equipment that was mainly given was equipment rapidly reaching EOL with the cost reflecting the replacement cost for things that were often about go be replaced anyway.

    So I suspect the real cost to the US is vastly lower than what has been reported to make the US look generous
  • HYUFD said:

    carnforth said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    No-one's banning anything. You don't have to go there.
    Five Guys have literally banned sale of bacon in their restaurants in areas with significant Muslim populations
    To be honest the market will decide if it succeeds

    There must be many other eating establishments available

    Live and let live so to speak
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,953
    glw said:

    Selebian said:

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    I see my (and all UK) apple accounts are now going to be a target for hackers given that Apple have pulled encryption for UK customers.

    Thanks whoever was responsible - you haven’t a clue what you are doing

    The U.K. govt and it’s demands of apple according to posts on social media. If any of our Tesh posters have more detail it would be appreciated.
    Be interesting to see whether third party apps will pop up in the app store to automatically encrypt before backup to Apple (and if Apple allow that).
    The government passed a law. A stupid law.

    Apple is obeying the law.
    Well strictly they aren't doing what was asked, put a backdoor in Advanced Data Protection with a global scope, instead they are pulling the service in the UK, because doing what the government wanted would be nuts.

    Practically it won't make much difference to most users as ADP is an optional feature with some downsides, and most people don't use it.

    But the people who do need ADP, like lawyers, NGOs, people with jobs that makes them a target for intelligence operations, are now left having to use other ways of securing their data end-to-end.
    They are strictly obeying the law. One way of complying is a back door. Apple correctly judged that was a bad solution - the tool the other option. To withdraw the product.

    The real question is what Signal etc will do.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,836
    Andy_JS said:

    pigeon said:

    Looking at the enormous scale of the problems assaulting us from every direction at once - the demographic disaster, mass migration, AI, obesity, the housing crisis, the climate crisis, autocratic empires, and now the sudden and total implosion of the western alliance after eighty years - I don't see how anything remotely resembling the world we have known survives the century. It might not last out 2025 at the rate we're going. And regardless of what the exact nature of the new dispensation is, I'm certain that it will be immeasurably, likely intolerably, worse. The game is up people. Progress is over. It's all downhill from hereon in.

    That's me done here. I'm off to listen to good music, watch sports, play Civ (VI, not VII, at least until they've fixed the bugs,) stuff myself with good meals and enjoy life whilst I can, before everything goes to Hell in a handcart. I can't do anything about the world and its problems except worry myself sick so from now on, the less time spent thinking about them and the more ignoring them, the better. Au revoir.

    I don't think it's that bad really. If Trump's actions mean Europe finally starts to pay for its own defence, that has to be a good thing.
    I have noticed a few left wingers (here and at work - I work at the Church of England so there is a lot of them) get maudlin recently - I can only conclude its a mixture of this time of year with winter not quite over but persistent and Trump shaking things up . Personally looking forward to Spring but politically think we are in a better place than a few years ago in most things
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,803
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    carnforth said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    No-one's banning anything. You don't have to go there.
    Five Guys have literally banned sale of bacon in their restaurants in areas with significant Muslim populations
    Can't be literally banning, because they aren't banning themselves are they? And I thought you were a Tory and believed in the free market?

    *PBpunctilio*
    @HYUFD probably thinks McDonalds bans the sale of Mozzarella Dippers when Cheese Bites come on the menu.
  • TimS said:

    Good afternoon

    Trump's antagonism to Zelensky seems to be over access to Ukraine's mineral wealth and apparently Waltz has said this afternoon Zelensky will sign the minerals deal with the US

    Make of that what ypu will

    They apparently came up with a better offer. But I hope Ukraine have managed to negotiate meaningful terms on this, and made it conditional on proper support and security guarantees.

    If it’s the same extortion they tried first time then it goes nowhere anyway. Either Ukraine loses to Russia and those minerals never appear, or it reaches a peace deal, there’s a new Ukrainian government and they renege on the extortion.

    I doubt Zelensky is foolish enough to take Trump's word. If there is a deal, it will have to be watertight. It may just look like the one Starmer and Macron are working on. If Zelensky can get US people on the ground in Ukraine, either military or civilians doing mineral extraction, then Ukraine becomes somewhere the US will protect and Russia cannot touch.

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,708
    Andy_JS said:

    pigeon said:

    Looking at the enormous scale of the problems assaulting us from every direction at once - the demographic disaster, mass migration, AI, obesity, the housing crisis, the climate crisis, autocratic empires, and now the sudden and total implosion of the western alliance after eighty years - I don't see how anything remotely resembling the world we have known survives the century. It might not last out 2025 at the rate we're going. And regardless of what the exact nature of the new dispensation is, I'm certain that it will be immeasurably, likely intolerably, worse. The game is up people. Progress is over. It's all downhill from hereon in.

    That's me done here. I'm off to listen to good music, watch sports, play Civ (VI, not VII, at least until they've fixed the bugs,) stuff myself with good meals and enjoy life whilst I can, before everything goes to Hell in a handcart. I can't do anything about the world and its problems except worry myself sick so from now on, the less time spent thinking about them and the more ignoring them, the better. Au revoir.

    I don't think it's that bad really. If Trump's actions mean Europe finally starts to pay for its own defence, that has to be a good thing.
    Yeah, but you are not Ukrainian and shortly to be a subject of Putin.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,631
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    carnforth said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    No-one's banning anything. You don't have to go there.
    Five Guys have literally banned sale of bacon in their restaurants in areas with significant Muslim populations
    Can't be literally banning, because they aren't banning themselves are they? And I thought you were a Tory and believed in the free market?

    *PBpunctilio*
    They are stopping sale of it, I am more free marketeer than socialist but I am not a pure free marketeer otherwise I would be a libertarian liberal
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,398

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    carnforth said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    No-one's banning anything. You don't have to go there.
    Five Guys have literally banned sale of bacon in their restaurants in areas with significant Muslim populations
    Can't be literally banning, because they aren't banning themselves are they? And I thought you were a Tory and believed in the free market?

    *PBpunctilio*
    @HYUFD probably thinks McDonalds bans the sale of Mozzarella Dippers when Cheese Bites come on the menu.
    Not with you? I don't aspire to such dining out, you see.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,450

    Good afternoon

    Trump's antagonism to Zelensky seems to be over access to Ukraine's mineral wealth and apparently Waltz has said this afternoon Zelensky will sign the minerals deal with the US

    Make of that what ypu will

    Have the Americans volunteered to defend it from Putin, or agreed to split it with him?
    I really have no idea but Trump did say there is 500 billion dollars of minerals in Ukraine and as the US has given Ukraine 350 billion in military support he wants the minerals !!
    Ukraine can, reasonably truthfully, point over there at the Donbass and say to the Americans, there are a large portion of the minerals, go get them. If a deal with the USA were to cover principally and explicitly rights to those Donbass minerals, then the discussion might veer in a different direction.

    Likely a fevered fantasy, but worth a gambit?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,613

    Andy_JS said:

    pigeon said:

    Looking at the enormous scale of the problems assaulting us from every direction at once - the demographic disaster, mass migration, AI, obesity, the housing crisis, the climate crisis, autocratic empires, and now the sudden and total implosion of the western alliance after eighty years - I don't see how anything remotely resembling the world we have known survives the century. It might not last out 2025 at the rate we're going. And regardless of what the exact nature of the new dispensation is, I'm certain that it will be immeasurably, likely intolerably, worse. The game is up people. Progress is over. It's all downhill from hereon in.

    That's me done here. I'm off to listen to good music, watch sports, play Civ (VI, not VII, at least until they've fixed the bugs,) stuff myself with good meals and enjoy life whilst I can, before everything goes to Hell in a handcart. I can't do anything about the world and its problems except worry myself sick so from now on, the less time spent thinking about them and the more ignoring them, the better. Au revoir.

    I don't think it's that bad really. If Trump's actions mean Europe finally starts to pay for its own defence, that has to be a good thing.
    Yeah, but you are not Ukrainian and shortly to be a subject of Putin.
    Also, Putin will be counting on splitting Europe politically, as he's already trying with places like Hungary and Romania. And, of course, as he's helped do with NATO and America.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,398

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars and non halal meat butchers banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    What next? Probably lab-grown meat.
    .
    Is it vegan???
    A good question, but no, because not organic. Or is it? Depends what additives go in it?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,631

    HYUFD said:

    carnforth said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    No-one's banning anything. You don't have to go there.
    Five Guys have literally banned sale of bacon in their restaurants in areas with significant Muslim populations
    No, they have literally decided not to sell bacon in certain restaurants, probably due to low demand. Good grief.

    The same way Tesco doesn’t ban the sale of certain brands when it decides not to stock them anymore.
    It doesn't ban whole categories of meat though, brands are just one producer of the product
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    carnforth said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    No-one's banning anything. You don't have to go there.
    Five Guys have literally banned sale of bacon in their restaurants in areas with significant Muslim populations
    No, they have literally decided not to sell bacon in certain restaurants, probably due to low demand. Good grief.

    The same way Tesco doesn’t ban the sale of certain brands when it decides not to stock them anymore.
    It doesn't ban whole categories of meat though, brands are just one producer of the product

    Have you tried buying rabbit meat in Tesco?

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,398
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    carnforth said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    No-one's banning anything. You don't have to go there.
    Five Guys have literally banned sale of bacon in their restaurants in areas with significant Muslim populations
    Can't be literally banning, because they aren't banning themselves are they? And I thought you were a Tory and believed in the free market?

    *PBpunctilio*
    They are stopping sale of it, I am more free marketeer than socialist but I am not a pure free marketeer otherwise I would be a libertarian liberal
    But you said banning. Now you are saying something else.

    It's like you saying my local Sainsburys has banned the sale of ground rice. When it just doesn't sell it any more. Not enough demand.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,803
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    carnforth said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    No-one's banning anything. You don't have to go there.
    Five Guys have literally banned sale of bacon in their restaurants in areas with significant Muslim populations
    No, they have literally decided not to sell bacon in certain restaurants, probably due to low demand. Good grief.

    The same way Tesco doesn’t ban the sale of certain brands when it decides not to stock them anymore.
    It doesn't ban whole categories of meat though, brands are just one producer of the product
    You are making yourself look ridiculous
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,607
    Highly impressed with Mark Francois defence of Zelenskyy .

    It just goes to show that this isn’t really a right v left issue . As has been highlighted by the vast majority of members on both sides in here .

    You can disagree on many things but can still find common ground .

  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,233
    viewcode said:

    I you want something a little light and fluffy in this horrible mess, here is the Tank Museum YouTube on the Matilda II tank https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl7QmlNpXQc

    Maintaining the US Election perspective, does it .. er .. Walz?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,631

    HYUFD said:

    carnforth said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    No-one's banning anything. You don't have to go there.
    Five Guys have literally banned sale of bacon in their restaurants in areas with significant Muslim populations
    To be honest the market will decide if it succeeds

    There must be many other eating establishments available

    Live and let live so to speak
    And if the market in a Muslim heavy area decided to impose Sharia law there would that be fine too?

  • NEW THREAD

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,803
    Wetherspoons BANS Amber Ale when it replaces Doom Bar with Landlord due to low demand
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,914
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Who (the more extreme sects anyway) ironically have more in common with the New Republicans of Gilead than they do with the wishy washy Wokesters of Europe.
    Yep. Lots for your alt right hard misogynists to like about radical islam. The old "horseshoe" in operation there.
    And yet you will rail against the hard right and do fuck all about mass Muslim migratiion into the UK. Why is that?
    Well only one of those is in my power to do (and I enjoy it). But even if I could change our immigration rules to exclude Muslims, I wouldn't. Because I'm not prejudiced against them.
    Unfortunately, many of them are prejudiced against YOU, as a quasi gay

    One of my best and oldest friends is very gay, he came out about 30 years ago. I love him dearly, albeit not physically (not my scene)

    He is the most liberal libby lib-lib you can magine, he atually votes Lib Dem, he's a confirmed Remoaner, super-multi-kulti

    etc

    For decades he has decried my political views as proto-Nazi, borderline racist, All Migrants are Great, etc (we have aways set our politics aside from our friendship, as one should)

    In the last few years -maybe even the last two years, it is is that sudden - he has entirely changed his tune. He now sees migration as a threat to his gay freedoms (through seeing gay friends threatened or harrassed by migrants), he worries about all migration but his big big fear is Muslim migration. He thinks if it continues we will see homosexuality slowly illegalised just as we have slowly allowed de facto blasphemy laws to emerge

    You are too stupid, narrow minded and cowardly to follow his mental journey, but I offer it out of sheer generosity
    "Dim man has dim friends" shocker.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,398

    NEW THREAD

    Oh, this thread has been banned has it?
  • Andy_JS said:

    pigeon said:

    Looking at the enormous scale of the problems assaulting us from every direction at once - the demographic disaster, mass migration, AI, obesity, the housing crisis, the climate crisis, autocratic empires, and now the sudden and total implosion of the western alliance after eighty years - I don't see how anything remotely resembling the world we have known survives the century. It might not last out 2025 at the rate we're going. And regardless of what the exact nature of the new dispensation is, I'm certain that it will be immeasurably, likely intolerably, worse. The game is up people. Progress is over. It's all downhill from hereon in.

    That's me done here. I'm off to listen to good music, watch sports, play Civ (VI, not VII, at least until they've fixed the bugs,) stuff myself with good meals and enjoy life whilst I can, before everything goes to Hell in a handcart. I can't do anything about the world and its problems except worry myself sick so from now on, the less time spent thinking about them and the more ignoring them, the better. Au revoir.

    I don't think it's that bad really. If Trump's actions mean Europe finally starts to pay for its own defence, that has to be a good thing.
    I have noticed a few left wingers (here and at work - I work at the Church of England so there is a lot of them) get maudlin recently - I can only conclude its a mixture of this time of year with winter not quite over but persistent and Trump shaking things up . Personally looking forward to Spring but politically think we are in a better place than a few years ago in most things

    This is a time of significant opportunity, as well as huge danger. The UK is finding out who its real friends are. That really matters. You want to work as closely as possible with your friends and to remove the barriers that prevent you from doing so.

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 12,744
    Carnyx said:

    Wasn't quite expecting that.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24954153.anas-sarwar-copies-tory-plan-elon-musk-style-doge-scotland/?ref=ebbn&nid=1457&u=f140ec39d500193051a33e140c12bd95&date=210225

    “As first minister I will respect every penny of your money. That’s why we will have our own Department of Government Efficiency [Doge] to stop the waste and deliver value for money for you, the taxpayer.”

    Read the room, Anas!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,223
    What the world knows, and will not unlearn, is that the United States cannot be trusted. Faith in America, and in basic American decency and goodwill, has kept the peace for generations, but that is over. Nations that refrained from getting nuclear weapons because they were secure under the American umbrella will rush to get bombs. Nations that resisted China’s bullying will make their accommodations. The Taiwanese can kiss their independence and their freedom goodbye. Formerly close allies will not share intelligence about impending terrorist threats. Our trading partners will make other plans and find other markets wherever possible. International lenders will think twice before underwriting more American debt.

    https://www.thebulwark.com/p/america-joins-the-jackals?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium==&utm_campaign=s
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,398
    edited February 21

    Carnyx said:

    Wasn't quite expecting that.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24954153.anas-sarwar-copies-tory-plan-elon-musk-style-doge-scotland/?ref=ebbn&nid=1457&u=f140ec39d500193051a33e140c12bd95&date=210225

    “As first minister I will respect every penny of your money. That’s why we will have our own Department of Government Efficiency [Doge] to stop the waste and deliver value for money for you, the taxpayer.”

    Read the room, Anas!
    I suspect now he thinks he does - angling for Reform support (or Reform voters), see my later comment.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,237

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    carnforth said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    No-one's banning anything. You don't have to go there.
    Five Guys have literally banned sale of bacon in their restaurants in areas with significant Muslim populations
    No, they have literally decided not to sell bacon in certain restaurants, probably due to low demand. Good grief.

    The same way Tesco doesn’t ban the sale of certain brands when it decides not to stock them anymore.
    It doesn't ban whole categories of meat though, brands are just one producer of the product

    Have you tried buying rabbit meat in Tesco?

    Cubed frozen rabbit meat was available in Tesco up to the early 2000s.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,825
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in Birmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    Don't need to be rightwing to think that is really fcuked up
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 12,744
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    White Christian nationalism?
    Musk also argues he is the saviour of free speech while Starmer jails social media users
    Musk is ‘overhauling’ Community Notes on Twitter because people keep using them to point out his lies,
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,151

    Good afternoon

    Trump's antagonism to Zelensky seems to be over access to Ukraine's mineral wealth and apparently Waltz has said this afternoon Zelensky will sign the minerals deal with the US

    Make of that what you will

    A minerals deal, rather than 'the', I suspect.
    Which is what Zelensky suggested in the first place.
  • carnforth said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    carnforth said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    No-one's banning anything. You don't have to go there.
    Five Guys have literally banned sale of bacon in their restaurants in areas with significant Muslim populations
    No, they have literally decided not to sell bacon in certain restaurants, probably due to low demand. Good grief.

    The same way Tesco doesn’t ban the sale of certain brands when it decides not to stock them anymore.
    It doesn't ban whole categories of meat though, brands are just one producer of the product

    Have you tried buying rabbit meat in Tesco?

    Cubed frozen rabbit meat was available in Tesco up to the early 2000s.

    Was it then banned?

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,825
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars and non halal meat butchers banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    The clowns will realise when they go out of business
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,151
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    carnforth said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    No-one's banning anything. You don't have to go there.
    Five Guys have literally banned sale of bacon in their restaurants in areas with significant Muslim populations
    To be honest the market will decide if it succeeds

    There must be many other eating establishments available

    Live and let live so to speak
    And if the market in a Muslim heavy area decided to impose Sharia law there would that be fine too?

    Markets don't decide laws.
    Except through elections.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,233
    eek said:

    Good afternoon

    Trump's antagonism to Zelensky seems to be over access to Ukraine's mineral wealth and apparently Waltz has said this afternoon Zelensky will sign the minerals deal with the US

    Make of that what ypu will

    Have the Americans volunteered to defend it from Putin, or agreed to split it with him?
    I really have no idea but Trump did say there is 500 billion dollars of minerals in Ukraine and as the US has given Ukraine 350 billion in military support he wants the minerals !!
    He hasn’t given them $350bn and the equipment that was mainly given was equipment rapidly reaching EOL with the cost reflecting the replacement cost for things that were often about go be replaced anyway.

    So I suspect the real cost to the US is vastly lower than what has been reported to make the US look generous
    The cook-the-books number is perhaps half of that, but then a huge amount of obsolete or expired stuff has been sent, then the number in the $175 billion set as the new price of the replacement - which money has then gone to the likes of Lockheed-Martin or the Gun Manufacturers, not Ukraine.

    A lot of the old stuff sent has actually saved the US money because they just ship it out to Ukraine, rather than having to pay to dismantle and dispose - that is for example the case with many of the ATACMS missiles, or the cluster shells, which do not now have to be converted into different types as had been the continuing programme.

    Perun as a defence economist specialist may have something on this at some point in the last ~150 videos. ( @Malmesbury ?)
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 12,744

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Not only Brum, there’s another three that do. Also ban booze too.

    If that’s what the customer demand is what’s the issue ?

    Got to keep the customer satisfied

    https://x.com/dshensmith/status/1892867913075310880?s=61

    Free market, they should be free to do whatever their customers want.

    I just wouldn't want it myself (and I do sometimes shop there, just not in my local branches not those ones). I always have the bacon if I'm there, and if it was removed I'd go shop elsewhere.

    I just wouldn't want it to be what most people want so that becomes more common, though I've met more people wanting to get meat removed from meals due to vegan beliefs than religious ones.

    PS they're one of the few big brands where you can get a keto burger, you can get their bacon cheeseburger bunless as an option.
    GBK will do a bunless version (bun replaced by salad) of any of their burgers.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,398
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    carnforth said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    No-one's banning anything. You don't have to go there.
    Five Guys have literally banned sale of bacon in their restaurants in areas with significant Muslim populations
    To be honest the market will decide if it succeeds

    There must be many other eating establishments available

    Live and let live so to speak
    And if the market in a Muslim heavy area decided to impose Sharia law there would that be fine too?

    Markets don't decide laws.
    Except through elections.
    Not even the Covered Market? Or the Thursday Market?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,151
    HYUFD said:

    carnforth said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    No-one's banning anything. You don't have to go there.
    Five Guys have literally banned sale of bacon in their restaurants in areas with significant Muslim populations
    HYUFD has literally banned logic from his own recent posts.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,613

    Wetherspoons BANS Amber Ale when it replaces Doom Bar with Landlord due to low demand

    That would be a really good comparison *if* Landlord was made unethically by slave labour or somesuch.

    But it isn't, so it's a terrible comparison.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,175
    I'm glad to see that a few of you responded to my comment about the odds against a third term for the Loser. May I suggest that those here who think it likely follow the example of those few, and give personal estimates on the odds in any future posts on the subject.

    I'll repeat mine: less that one chance in a billion. And I would give the same odds against an"extension" of his second term.

    Reminder: Given the Loser's age, his obesity, and his lack of aerobic exercise, there is a real possibility that he will not live out his second term.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_and_health_concerns_about_Donald_Trump
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,108
    Carnyx said:



    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars and non halal meat butchers banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    I've often thought there could be a business opportunity for "Christian Meat" that died a natural death in a field full of buttercups.
    A nice thought, but as you know, of course, illegal to sell. There's a Scots word for it, braxy, no doubt reflecting the inevitable debate on whether to eat it or feed it to the dogs.

    https://www.dsl.ac.uk/entry/snd/braxy
    Chap I knew used to collect and eat roadkill. He's dead now.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,184
    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars and non halal meat butchers banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    The clowns will realise when they go out of business
    Not in Brum!

    Halal is where the market is, perhaps they should offer Halal Turkey bacon?

    My local farmer friend, whose family has farmed East Leics since the dark ages sells all his sheep to the Halal butcher, because that is where the market is. I think all NZ Lamb is Halal for similar reasons.

    There have long been many alcohol free curry houses in Leicester, in part to save on the licence and in part for religious reasons. Most of these are Gujerati Hindu vegetarian places in my experience, but may just be the ones that I choose, as I do prefer Indian food vegetarian.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,608
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Not only Brum, there’s another three that do. Also ban booze too.

    If that’s what the customer demand is what’s the issue ?

    Got to keep the customer satisfied

    https://x.com/dshensmith/status/1892867913075310880?s=61

    Free market, they should be free to do whatever their customers want.

    I just wouldn't want it myself (and I do sometimes shop there, just not in my local branches not those ones). I always have the bacon if I'm there, and if it was removed I'd go shop elsewhere.

    I just wouldn't want it to be what most people want so that becomes more common, though I've met more people wanting to get meat removed from meals due to vegan beliefs than religious ones.

    PS they're one of the few big brands where you can get a keto burger, you can get their bacon cheeseburger bunless as an option.
    I wonder how many people complaining about this have ever visited the branches in question. I agree with you. It’s a free market and they are responding to customer demand.

    I suppose some people might be concerned why customers are demanding this, since bacon and alcohol are two of the greatest things you can get.
    On that you’ll get no argument from me, we always have a pack in the fridge, and my niece would, when younger, happily live on bacon sandwiches and vodka.
    As would we all.
    Though I always preferred whisky.
    Same here. A nice single malt not too peaty for me.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,608

    HYUFD said:

    carnforth said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    No-one's banning anything. You don't have to go there.
    Five Guys have literally banned sale of bacon in their restaurants in areas with significant Muslim populations
    What is "significant"?
    Significant enough to make the demand for bacon and alcohol negligible. I posted a like earlier with the relevant stores.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,139
    edited February 21
    wrong thread doh
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,850
    Scott_xP said:

    How long till Musk/Trump refutes this?

    @generalkellogg
    A long and intense day with the senior leadership of Ukraine. Extensive and positive discussions with @ZelenskyyUa, the embattled and courageous leader of a nation at war and his talented national security team.

    They will have Kellogg for breakfast.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,623
    Sean_F said:

    Stereodog said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:

    Out of interest, as I was agog reading the warfare on here last night, one of my Labour mates sent me some screengrabs of one of the Momentum lot who came into and then left the Labour Party with Corbyn. No surprise, a major proponent of the Putin view of the world because Zelenskyy is "not allowing open democracy", and is "known to have ordered the killing of Russian speaking citizens of Ukraine like some sort of genocide"

    The trot left and the Trump/Farage alt-right are marching in lockstep. They both hate each other for ideological reasons yet are proudly speaking the same FUD for ideological reasons.

    Fascinating...

    It's a bit of a headscratcher. Zelensky is a native Russian speaker and only learned Ukranian as an adult.
    It's funny reading BBC articles from 2019. Lots of worries about Zelensky being a Russian puppet, and he did better in the Russian-speaking/eastern parts of Ukraine than he did elsewhere. He was also elected on an anti-corruption platform, and was pushing for a ceasefire in Donbas etc.
    Zelensky was a very poor president prior to the invasion, in the pocket of one the main Ukrainian oligarchs. I don't think anyone would have predicted he would be a great war leader.
    Churchill would have been a minor historical figure were it not for being the right man in the right place in 1940.
    True but I think you could have imagined Churchill acting as he did during WW2 prior to those events.Zelensky was a weak president even by the low standards of Ukrainian governance. This is not to take away from his achievement but to say it was a surprising one.
    I think that's hindsight taking re Churchill. What had he ever achieved in his time in politics? Dardenelles - a massive disaster, butcher of workers during the general strike. Changed parties repeatedly like a gadfly.
    He didn’t actually butcher any workers. His dispatch of soldiers was down to a concern that the local police chief was a bit of an idiot. The idea was that soldiers could be reliably ordered *not* to shoot. Which they didn’t.
    I thought that that particular 'urban myth' referred to a pre-WWI dispute, when Churchill was a "Liberal' minister.
    As a Liberal Home Secretary he was criticised for authorising the use of troops to break a strike at Tonypandy and also for turning up in person at the Siege of Sydney Street. I don't think those actions resulted in any additional deaths but not entirely sure.
    Churchill had major flaws, but there’s a whole cottage industry of quasi-historians, eager to build up a black legend about him.

    He never used soldiers to open fire on strikers.
    Llanelli 1911.

    He wasn’t there, but the soldiers he ordered to disperse a raiwlay strike did fire on a group of strikers, killing one plus an innocent bystander.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,806
    Dopermean said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in Birmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    Does halal meat taste different to haram meat ?

    Don’t get the objection myself. As long as it’s tasty I’ll eat it. If I eat halal meat I’m not suddenly going to become an observant muslim. The objections are nonsense.
    It is a less humane form of animal slaughter.
    Animal welfare probably isn't the foremost consideration of burger restaurants' clientele, though apparently halal slaughter can allow pre-stunning but kosher doesn't.
    I would imagine burger restaurant clientele would quite like their meat to be produced with the least suffering feasible.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,358
    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    In all seriousness, what is this western civilisation that is being defended if it does not mean:
    1. Liberal democracy
    2. The rule of law
    3. Freedom of speech and expression
    President Trump is opposed to all three. So what other unifying values are there for Europe to get behind him to defend?

    The driving sentiment is that the West is being despoiled by Muslims.
    Well lots of rightwingers getting annoyed on X FiveGuys have stopped serving bacon in aBirmingham and now only serving Halal meat

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1892940126583464380

    What’s the odds everyone complaining has never bought anything from there?

    Locally there is 1 KFC in Teesside that uses Halal meat. You can identify it from the queues being way longer than elsewhere
    Does it also ban bacon like FiveGuys Birmingham have?
    Um - I don’t think they’ve banned bacon, they just don’t sell it.

    I suspect you (and the other GBNews viewers) won’t grasp the fundamental difference
    They have stopped selling bacon and alcohol in a number of their restaurants and now lots of rightwing tweeters are promising to boycott FiveGuys.

    To be fair they have a point, sell halal meat by all means but don't stop selling non halal meat and alcohol.

    What next? Mosques allowed but churches and pubs and bars and non halal meat butchers banned in Muslim plurality areas of the UK?
    What next? Probably lab-grown meat.

    I'm convinced we will look back on rearing and eating animals in the same way we do slavery. Not going to stop me though, except I'm a bit environmentally conscious, and try to avoid mammals if I can.
    If we weren't meant to eat cyclists the goddess wouldn't have made them out of meat
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