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100 days in and so far it’s not looking good for Kemi Badenoch – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,318
edited February 18 in General
100 days in and so far it’s not looking good for Kemi Badenoch – politicalbetting.com

Kemi Badenoch and Nigel Farage tie when asked who would make the best prime minister, with only 35% of Tory voters favouring BadenochBadenoch: 22%Farage: 22%2024 Conservative votersBadenoch: 35%Farage: 26%2024 Reform UK votersBadenoch: 6%Farage: 73%yougov.co.uk/politics/art…

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,867
    Kemi was very much the pundits' choice. What happened?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,554
    edited February 10
    Badenoch is more a policy wonk than a natural leader. That said the latest Electoral Calculus poll average and seat forecast has the Conservatives gaining 35 seats on the last general election, despite a slightly lower voteshare as the Labour vote is down much more. Which would be rather better for the LOTO than Foot did in 1983 or Hague did in 2001 or Ed Miliband did in 2015 having taken over as LOTO like Kemi after their party lost power.

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html

    Note how almost as many LD voters as Tories think Badenoch would be a better PM than Farage, so she is at least making progress with LDs given comparison with Reform even if most Reform voters overwhelmingly prefer Farage to her.

    The fact most Conservative voters also think she is doing a good job should secure her position until the next GE given she won both the Tory MPs and Tory members votes
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,619
    Starmer makes better PM than Farage, Badenoch and Davey according to this poll.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,417
    The first 100 days really are crucial. Few escape their fate

    Starmer failed the test, and I fear Kemi B is the same. It’s a shame, I quite like her, she is bright and interesting, but….. she’s just not *papabile*

    She’s not assisted by the fact that Jenrick, Tory shit that he is, seems to have mastered social media AND makes fast, punchy, aggressive points in the Commons while looking like the lead singer of the Killers. He would be mincing Starmer weekly at PMQs
  • HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    This is what happens when you allow leftist ideology to capture educational institutions, brainwash a generation and teach them their country is evil.

    They're not learning this in school.
    Oh, they are.

    They certainly are.
    My kids go/went to school in ultra woke Lewisham and they're learning about the Blitz and the Tudors the same as everyone else. They are taught the national curriculum, which is not very woke.
    The idea that the state education sector is an incubator for the woke mind virus seems to be held in inverse proportion to people's actual experience of it.
    I have kids at school now. Only on Friday we attended a school open day (we are looking at alternatives) where the Headmaster addressed the parents and prided himself that his school didn't teach an "anglocentric" view of the world and will focus on the "toxic legacy of colonialism".

    This shit is everywhere, it's endemic, pernicious and extremely dangerous.
    Might I point you to the previous information about births in the UK and particularly London.

    London remained the region with the greatest proportion of births to parents where either one or both were born outside of the UK (67.4% of live births).


    These are the British workers of the future. Their parents are overwhelmingly here by invitation to live their lives. They won't have an Anglocentric view of life and they are likely to have some family knowledge of colonialism. So would you prefer schools to indoctrinate 'values' or educate.

    Demographics shape the future. Geography shapes our present trade arrangements. Everything else is shouting at clouds.
    London of course also has a Reform vote well below the UK average in most polls, voted for Corbyn in 2017 and 2019 and comfortably rejected Brexit in 2016.

    London is a different country culturally to the rest of the UK now as well as being more expensive
    And yet 78% of Londoners in 2021 still report English as their main language (myself included), only 22% have another language as their main language.

    Interestingly, 78% is the same % as the USA as a whole at their 2020 Census.
  • Kemi was very much the pundits' choice. What happened?

    The Kembot :lol:
  • Who could have predicted this?

    Oversubscribed state schools have no room for private pupils

    At least 27 local authorities are full in certain age cohorts, raising fears that schools would struggle to cope with an influx after Labour’s VAT raid


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/no-spare-state-school-places-private-school-fears-3rd87xqq2
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,554
    Scandal hits the German Green leader:

    https://x.com/tom_nuttall/status/1888919745300152810

    It's not a real German election campaign until a senior politician has to deny that they plagiarised their doctorate.
  • Kemi was very much the pundits' choice. What happened?

    1. The World's Smartest Electorate (TM) screwed up again, leaving Jenrick and Badenoch as the last two.
    2. Jenrick was seen as too horrible.

    It wasn't Kemi Good, Bob Bad so much as Kemi poor, Bob terrible.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,619
    FPT I think the most important effect of the King and Country debate was that the German government took this as carte blanche, that the British wouldn't fight. When it came to it, they did of course.
  • FF43 said:

    Starmer makes better PM than Farage, Badenoch and Davey according to this poll.

    There's always been a strong incumbency bias in the best PM polling (for example Callaghan led Thatcher on this metric), it is only notable when a LOTO leads the PM on this metric.

    But non incumbent PM head to heads are fascinating which is why I said that Badenoch trails Davey on this metric would sting.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,554

    Who could have predicted this?

    Oversubscribed state schools have no room for private pupils

    At least 27 local authorities are full in certain age cohorts, raising fears that schools would struggle to cope with an influx after Labour’s VAT raid


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/no-spare-state-school-places-private-school-fears-3rd87xqq2

    Looks like we might need some more free schools then
  • Leon said:

    The first 100 days really are crucial. Few escape their fate

    Starmer failed the test, and I fear Kemi B is the same. It’s a shame, I quite like her, she is bright and interesting, but….. she’s just not *papabile*

    She’s not assisted by the fact that Jenrick, Tory shit that he is, seems to have mastered social media AND makes fast, punchy, aggressive points in the Commons while looking like the lead singer of the Killers. He would be mincing Starmer weekly at PMQs

    Jenrick is a Cambridge educated lawyer, he's the best of the best.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,335

    Who could have predicted this?

    Oversubscribed state schools have no room for private pupils

    At least 27 local authorities are full in certain age cohorts, raising fears that schools would struggle to cope with an influx after Labour’s VAT raid


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/no-spare-state-school-places-private-school-fears-3rd87xqq2

    Socialists don't think through most obvious implications of spiteful, envy-driven policies despite planning them for years and children bear the brunt - SHOCK.
  • Leon said:

    The first 100 days really are crucial. Few escape their fate

    Starmer failed the test, and I fear Kemi B is the same. It’s a shame, I quite like her, she is bright and interesting, but….. she’s just not *papabile*

    She’s not assisted by the fact that Jenrick, Tory shit that he is, seems to have mastered social media AND makes fast, punchy, aggressive points in the Commons while looking like the lead singer of the Killers. He would be mincing Starmer weekly at PMQs

    Jenrick would face the same problem as Kemi at PMQs – Starmer batting everything back as a problem created by the Conservative government. Time will fix this eventually.

    Kemi could use some tactical advice, like asking only one question at a time. I fear CCHQ is staffed by idiots but this does seem to be a deliberate tactic.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,473

    Who could have predicted this?

    Oversubscribed state schools have no room for private pupils

    At least 27 local authorities are full in certain age cohorts, raising fears that schools would struggle to cope with an influx after Labour’s VAT raid


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/no-spare-state-school-places-private-school-fears-3rd87xqq2

    This has been my point from the start. This policy has made it more difficult to get my daughter into a local state school.
    It was no doubt drawn up by people in London who believe parents have a choice in schools and there is plenty of room to accommodate parents who are priced out (though of course who also believe that parents and/or schools will just absorb the costs). In Trafford, no such slack exists in the system.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,554
    edited February 10
    Leon said:

    The first 100 days really are crucial. Few escape their fate

    Starmer failed the test, and I fear Kemi B is the same. It’s a shame, I quite like her, she is bright and interesting, but….. she’s just not *papabile*

    She’s not assisted by the fact that Jenrick, Tory shit that he is, seems to have mastered social media AND makes fast, punchy, aggressive points in the Commons while looking like the lead singer of the Killers. He would be mincing Starmer weekly at PMQs

    Kemi is not hated as much as Farage is or Jenrick would be or as unpopular as Starmer now is but she also doesn't make waves in the media and have a likeable personality and some charisma in the way Ed Davey does.

    She is more of an intellectual than natural party leader. Having said that she is not really a negative for the Tories either like Truss was, more of a shrug shoulders leader
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,200
    FPT:
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Half of Generation Z think that Britain is a racist country and only a tenth would risk their lives to defend it in a war, landmark research for The Times has shown:

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/society/article/gen-z-survey-police-racism-crime-nhs-hlghh0pxw

    Non-paywall here: https://archive.is/0Edyx

    I can't find the actual survey/report, just the Times summary of, and reporting of, it. Has any kind person got a link to the survey/summary please?
    Paywalls exist for a reason. Your consistent evasion of them, via links on here, is - quite seriously - inviting legal action against OGH and the site

    @IanB2 lifts entire chunks of Andrew Rawnsley from the Guardian, but I guess that is forgiveable because Ian is a fool and the Guardian has no paywall, yet. The Times certainly does
    It's odd that there has been no serious attempt at a take-down of archive.is, however hard it would be. I suppose newspapers can't agitate by writing stories about how awful it is because they don't want to tell their readers it exists.

    (I share my mother's Times account. Am I going to Jail?)
    Yes and probably no

    But this IS serious advice to the site. A modestly prominent website like pb.com cannot constantly have people showing how to steal articles. Depriving the newspapers of money. Because stealing is what it is, just like someone pirating a Sky football broadcast
    The most serious legal letters OGH has ever received was from The Times when Plato was copying and pasting dozens of articles from The Times on a daily basis after they went behind a paywall.

    You make a fair point about this and I guess we'll have to ban those archive links.
    Yes, this is sincere and well-informed advice. The newspapers are really onto this and don’t take it lightly. If PB was a private WhatsApp group fair enough, but it is public and blatant and you don’t want to be the site they choose to make en example of, pour encourager les autres

    A link to that archiv site will get you warned then banned from some subreddits I know, for exactly that reason
    I'm (sincerely) on the other side of this one.

    Such sites are fairly straighforward to block for a professional (or indeed amateur) publication, so imo if a newspaper or media site leaves a hole in its paywall then that is a deliberate decision.

    It changes if a complaint has been received.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,562
    FPT

    A twitter thread on the case of the teenager who,is a fussy eater. A rarity among surly, moody, teens for sure, and the stalled deportation of a serial criminal who lied about his asylum claim.

    https://x.com/lara_e_brown/status/1888927058744467932?s=61
  • eekeek Posts: 29,121

    Who could have predicted this?

    Oversubscribed state schools have no room for private pupils

    At least 27 local authorities are full in certain age cohorts, raising fears that schools would struggle to cope with an influx after Labour’s VAT raid


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/no-spare-state-school-places-private-school-fears-3rd87xqq2

    There is not enough information in the article to confirm what the article is pretending to report.

    I mean the number of extra children in Nottinghamshire and Stoke could reflect recent arrivals far more than a change in private school number
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 12,710
    Analysis of the Telegraph chicken nugget story: https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/s/pgJg85CaIU It’s bollocks.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,900
    edited February 10
    Fishing said:

    Who could have predicted this?

    Oversubscribed state schools have no room for private pupils

    At least 27 local authorities are full in certain age cohorts, raising fears that schools would struggle to cope with an influx after Labour’s VAT raid


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/no-spare-state-school-places-private-school-fears-3rd87xqq2

    Socialists don't think through most obvious implications of spiteful, envy-driven policies despite planning them for years and children bear the brunt - SHOCK.
    Envy? So you're now ENVIOUS of those who chose State Education?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,645

    Scandal hits the German Green leader:

    https://x.com/tom_nuttall/status/1888919745300152810

    It's not a real German election campaign until a senior politician has to deny that they plagiarised their doctorate.

    Almost as bad as grossly exaggerating one's CV I guess.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,121
    Cookie said:

    Who could have predicted this?

    Oversubscribed state schools have no room for private pupils

    At least 27 local authorities are full in certain age cohorts, raising fears that schools would struggle to cope with an influx after Labour’s VAT raid


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/no-spare-state-school-places-private-school-fears-3rd87xqq2

    This has been my point from the start. This policy has made it more difficult to get my daughter into a local state school.
    It was no doubt drawn up by people in London who believe parents have a choice in schools and there is plenty of room to accommodate parents who are priced out (though of course who also believe that parents and/or schools will just absorb the costs). In Trafford, no such slack exists in the system.
    The problem is there is not a lot (or any slack) across a lot of the country while we wait for a bump in child numbers to go through the school system.

    * offhand I can’t remember exactly where the peak of the bump is - I thought it was 2023 for secondary schools but would need to look at the figures in detail
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,088
    Carnyx said:

    Analysis of the Telegraph chicken nugget story: https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/s/pgJg85CaIU It’s bollocks.

    Oh, is that what they put in the nuggets?
    Bollocks? Actual chicken bollocks? Luxury. Back in my day...(see page 94)
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,214
    Carnyx said:

    Analysis of the Telegraph chicken nugget story: https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/s/pgJg85CaIU It’s bollocks.

    Oh, is that what they put in the nuggets?
    They would be very small nuggets if they come from chickens.
  • Analysis of the Telegraph chicken nugget story: https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/s/pgJg85CaIU It’s bollocks.

    FPT-ing my explanation from behind the firewall.

    Basically, the lower tribunal said he can stay, but this was overturned at the next level up:-

    The judge, David Merrigan, said the only example of why the boy could not go to Albania was that he “will not eat the type of chicken nuggets that are available abroad”.

    “We are not persuaded that the addition of this sole example approaches anywhere near the level of harshness for a reasonable judge to find it to be ‘unduly’ so,” he said.

    He remitted the case to be reheard by a different judge in a lower tribunal to decide the “sole issue” of whether the consequences of deportation would be unduly harsh on the 10-year-old boy. The case is ongoing.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/02/09/albanian-criminal-deportation-halted-over-chicken-nuggets/ (£££)

    So clickbait from the Telegraph; ragebait from Jenrick & Philp.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,423
    Traditionally in UK politics, in looking at a Lab/Con party leader you are unconsciously looking at them as the leader of a group of maybe about 6-10 well known obviously capable politicians.

    So, among those in Thatcher's first cabinet were: Hailsham, Whitelaw, Howe, Carrington, Walker, Prior, Heseltine, Joseph, Jenkin.

    Now name 10 of Kemi's first cabinet....
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,645
    Cookie said:

    Who could have predicted this?

    Oversubscribed state schools have no room for private pupils

    At least 27 local authorities are full in certain age cohorts, raising fears that schools would struggle to cope with an influx after Labour’s VAT raid


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/no-spare-state-school-places-private-school-fears-3rd87xqq2

    This has been my point from the start. This policy has made it more difficult to get my daughter into a local state school.
    It was no doubt drawn up by people in London who believe parents have a choice in schools and there is plenty of room to accommodate parents who are priced out (though of course who also believe that parents and/or schools will just absorb the costs). In Trafford, no such slack exists in the system.
    I think it was mainly drawn up by people who are motivated by envy and don't understand basic economics.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,073
    Leon said:

    The first 100 days really are crucial. Few escape their fate

    Starmer failed the test, and I fear Kemi B is the same. It’s a shame, I quite like her, she is bright and interesting, but….. she’s just not *papabile*

    She’s not assisted by the fact that Jenrick, Tory shit that he is, seems to have mastered social media AND makes fast, punchy, aggressive points in the Commons while looking like the lead singer of the Killers. He would be mincing Starmer weekly at PMQs

    I’m pleased that my Brandon Flowers observation has not gone unheeded.

    The difficulty I have is this: is Jenrick good looking? Flowers is (or was, in his heyday) incredibly so. See the video for Human. Jenrick: he has much of the same thing - the clear skin, strong cheekbones and steely look that’s a bit German or Swiss. A little reminiscent of a young Ralph Fiennes as Amon Goeth in Schindler’s List. But he also looks unavoidably Tory-Boy. And a little pallid and baby-faced.

    A sort of Quantum politician, both good looking and not good looking simultaneously.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,121

    Analysis of the Telegraph chicken nugget story: https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/s/pgJg85CaIU It’s bollocks.

    FPT-ing my explanation from behind the firewall.

    Basically, the lower tribunal said he can stay, but this was overturned at the next level up:-

    The judge, David Merrigan, said the only example of why the boy could not go to Albania was that he “will not eat the type of chicken nuggets that are available abroad”.

    “We are not persuaded that the addition of this sole example approaches anywhere near the level of harshness for a reasonable judge to find it to be ‘unduly’ so,” he said.

    He remitted the case to be reheard by a different judge in a lower tribunal to decide the “sole issue” of whether the consequences of deportation would be unduly harsh on the 10-year-old boy. The case is ongoing.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/02/09/albanian-criminal-deportation-halted-over-chicken-nuggets/ (£££)

    So clickbait from the Telegraph; ragebait from Jenrick & Philp.
    And a consequence of tribunals being ran so cheaply that the only judges willing to sit there are not very good
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,645
    algarkirk said:

    Traditionally in UK politics, in looking at a Lab/Con party leader you are unconsciously looking at them as the leader of a group of maybe about 6-10 well known obviously capable politicians.

    So, among those in Thatcher's first cabinet were: Hailsham, Whitelaw, Howe, Carrington, Walker, Prior, Heseltine, Joseph, Jenkin.

    Now name 10 of Kemi's first cabinet....

    Johnson hollowed out the best people. It is why the Conservative Party is where is.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,554
    Is this necessary?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/02/10/andrew-gwynne-whatsapp-chat-non-crime-hate-incident/

    Ex-Labour minister’s WhatsApp chat recorded as non-crime hate incident

    Police confirm they have begun inquiry into Andrew Gwynne’s messages
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,554
    algarkirk said:

    Traditionally in UK politics, in looking at a Lab/Con party leader you are unconsciously looking at them as the leader of a group of maybe about 6-10 well known obviously capable politicians.

    So, among those in Thatcher's first cabinet were: Hailsham, Whitelaw, Howe, Carrington, Walker, Prior, Heseltine, Joseph, Jenkin.

    Now name 10 of Kemi's first cabinet....

    Stride, Philp, Jenrick, Patel, Burghart, Whately, Norman, Bowie, Coutinho
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,372
    kjh said:

    Carnyx said:

    Analysis of the Telegraph chicken nugget story: https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/s/pgJg85CaIU It’s bollocks.

    Oh, is that what they put in the nuggets?
    They would be very small nuggets if they come from chickens.
    Together with all the other unmentionable stuff, though ...
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,562

    Is this necessary?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/02/10/andrew-gwynne-whatsapp-chat-non-crime-hate-incident/

    Ex-Labour minister’s WhatsApp chat recorded as non-crime hate incident

    Police confirm they have begun inquiry into Andrew Gwynne’s messages

    I thought the Police up and down the country had stopped doing this.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,088

    Analysis of the Telegraph chicken nugget story: https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/s/pgJg85CaIU It’s bollocks.

    FPT-ing my explanation from behind the firewall.

    Basically, the lower tribunal said he can stay, but this was overturned at the next level up:-

    The judge, David Merrigan, said the only example of why the boy could not go to Albania was that he “will not eat the type of chicken nuggets that are available abroad”.

    “We are not persuaded that the addition of this sole example approaches anywhere near the level of harshness for a reasonable judge to find it to be ‘unduly’ so,” he said.

    He remitted the case to be reheard by a different judge in a lower tribunal to decide the “sole issue” of whether the consequences of deportation would be unduly harsh on the 10-year-old boy. The case is ongoing.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/02/09/albanian-criminal-deportation-halted-over-chicken-nuggets/ (£££)

    So clickbait from the Telegraph; ragebait from Jenrick & Philp.
    Partly, although the point was made that the only evidence offered initially was the nuggets aversion, and now more evidence is being sought. It raises the question why anybody thought that the stated aversion would ever be enough?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,088

    Is this necessary?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/02/10/andrew-gwynne-whatsapp-chat-non-crime-hate-incident/

    Ex-Labour minister’s WhatsApp chat recorded as non-crime hate incident

    Police confirm they have begun inquiry into Andrew Gwynne’s messages

    No - there ought not be such a thing in the world.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,372
    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    Traditionally in UK politics, in looking at a Lab/Con party leader you are unconsciously looking at them as the leader of a group of maybe about 6-10 well known obviously capable politicians.

    So, among those in Thatcher's first cabinet were: Hailsham, Whitelaw, Howe, Carrington, Walker, Prior, Heseltine, Joseph, Jenkin.

    Now name 10 of Kemi's first cabinet....

    Stride, Philp, Jenrick, Patel, Burghart, Whately, Norman, Bowie, Coutinho
    TBF Algarkirk didn't specify the base of the number system to be used ...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,554
    edited February 10

    Is this necessary?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/02/10/andrew-gwynne-whatsapp-chat-non-crime-hate-incident/

    Ex-Labour minister’s WhatsApp chat recorded as non-crime hate incident

    Police confirm they have begun inquiry into Andrew Gwynne’s messages

    Apparently so 'The College of Policing states that an NCHI is any incident where a crime has not been committed, but where it is perceived that the incident was motivated by hostility or prejudice.'

    The police have plenty of time on their hands to focus on some ill judged social media posts given there are so few criminals about committing actual crimes after all....
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,073

    Is this necessary?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/02/10/andrew-gwynne-whatsapp-chat-non-crime-hate-incident/

    Ex-Labour minister’s WhatsApp chat recorded as non-crime hate incident

    Police confirm they have begun inquiry into Andrew Gwynne’s messages

    No - there ought not be such a thing in the world.
    I’d quite like them to focus on non-hate crime incidents. Like my car being nicked twice. No hate involved, but a bloody annoyance which the police seemed to think simply required them to issue a CRN for my insurance claim.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,458
    Has there ever been a time when a LibDem leader has led a Conservative one on the best PM metric?

  • Analysis of the Telegraph chicken nugget story: https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/s/pgJg85CaIU It’s bollocks.

    FPT-ing my explanation from behind the firewall.

    Basically, the lower tribunal said he can stay, but this was overturned at the next level up:-

    The judge, David Merrigan, said the only example of why the boy could not go to Albania was that he “will not eat the type of chicken nuggets that are available abroad”.

    “We are not persuaded that the addition of this sole example approaches anywhere near the level of harshness for a reasonable judge to find it to be ‘unduly’ so,” he said.

    He remitted the case to be reheard by a different judge in a lower tribunal to decide the “sole issue” of whether the consequences of deportation would be unduly harsh on the 10-year-old boy. The case is ongoing.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/02/09/albanian-criminal-deportation-halted-over-chicken-nuggets/ (£££)

    So clickbait from the Telegraph; ragebait from Jenrick & Philp.
    Partly, although the point was made that the only evidence offered initially was the nuggets aversion, and now more evidence is being sought. It raises the question why anybody thought that the stated aversion would ever be enough?
    There are 34,000 outstanding appeals. That's appeals, so the throughput on original cases must be phenomenal. It is hardly surprising the odd few go wrong under pressure.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,554
    edited February 10
    rcs1000 said:

    Has there ever been a time when a LibDem leader has led a Conservative one on the best PM metric?

    Charles Kennedy IDS, maybe Davey Truss too. Notably Davey leads Farage as best PM too and is also closest to Starmer on that metric.

    Davey also outpolls his party's voteshare on the best PM metric unlike the other 2 opposition leaders
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,088
    TimS said:

    Is this necessary?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/02/10/andrew-gwynne-whatsapp-chat-non-crime-hate-incident/

    Ex-Labour minister’s WhatsApp chat recorded as non-crime hate incident

    Police confirm they have begun inquiry into Andrew Gwynne’s messages

    No - there ought not be such a thing in the world.
    I’d quite like them to focus on non-hate crime incidents. Like my car being nicked twice. No hate involved, but a bloody annoyance which the police seemed to think simply required them to issue a CRN for my insurance claim.
    In the modern age it ought to be simple for every car to be micro-chipped or tagged in some way that theft was impossible (aside of placing said vehicle in a Faraday cage). Add in automatic number plate recognition to track stolen car and surely car theft is over. But sadly there seems to be no appetite for this.
  • HYUFD said:

    Badenoch is more a policy wonk than a natural leader. That said the latest Electoral Calculus poll average and seat forecast has the Conservatives gaining 35 seats on the last general election, despite a slightly lower voteshare as the Labour vote is down much more. Which would be rather better for the LOTO than Foot did in 1983 or Hague did in 2001 or Ed Miliband did in 2015 having taken over as LOTO like Kemi after their party lost power.

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html

    Note how almost as many LD voters as Tories think Badenoch would be a better PM than Farage, so she is at least making progress with LDs given comparison with Reform even if most Reform voters overwhelmingly prefer Farage to her.

    The fact most Conservative voters also think she is doing a good job should secure her position until the next GE given she won both the Tory MPs and Tory members votes

    I'm old enough to remember the guffaws from Harold Wilson, Jim Callaghan and Silly Billy Dennis Healey when the Conservatives stuck themselves with Margaret Thatcher. Looks to me like we have made the same mistake again.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,088
    rcs1000 said:

    Has there ever been a time when a LibDem leader has led a Conservative one on the best PM metric?

    Best bungie jump?
  • rcs1000 said:

    Has there ever been a time when a LibDem leader has led a Conservative one on the best PM metric?

    Yes, Davey led Sunak.

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/06/19/by-32-to-26-more-brits-think-ed-davey-would-be-a-better-pm-than-rishi-sunak/
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,776
    FPT
    TOPPING said:

    I think there would be a huge amount of fascinating, mind-expanding, and stimulating content in a course which has at its core "the toxic legacy of colonialism".

    Not least to puncture the exceptionalism of many in this country who might, incidentally, but centrally to the premise, bridle at the topic.

    But why not look at the legacy of colonialism in the round, rather than the toxic legacy?

    What other historical subjects have we predetermined the verdict on before we even teach them? The toxic legacy of Elizabeth I? The toxic legacy of the Romans? The toxic legacy of the Industrial Revolution? The toxic legacy of the Smoot Hawley Tariff Act?

    It is a cretinously ahistorical approach, which is how we can tell it is propaganda by grifters.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,922

    Cookie said:

    Who could have predicted this?

    Oversubscribed state schools have no room for private pupils

    At least 27 local authorities are full in certain age cohorts, raising fears that schools would struggle to cope with an influx after Labour’s VAT raid


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/no-spare-state-school-places-private-school-fears-3rd87xqq2

    This has been my point from the start. This policy has made it more difficult to get my daughter into a local state school.
    It was no doubt drawn up by people in London who believe parents have a choice in schools and there is plenty of room to accommodate parents who are priced out (though of course who also believe that parents and/or schools will just absorb the costs). In Trafford, no such slack exists in the system.
    I think it was mainly drawn up by people who are motivated by envy and don't understand basic economics.
    Or that the state school system is carefully and deliberately run at as near 100% capacity as can be achieved.

    The insanity of that is that scientific management had identified running at 100% as leading to inevitable organisational failure in about 1890.

    The noted symptoms from those days included - “collapse in worker morale, collapse in quality, ‘soldiering’ - performing tasks by rote without a care for the result, frequent stoppages due to missing staff or materials….”
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,125

    Who could have predicted this?

    Oversubscribed state schools have no room for private pupils

    At least 27 local authorities are full in certain age cohorts, raising fears that schools would struggle to cope with an influx after Labour’s VAT raid


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/no-spare-state-school-places-private-school-fears-3rd87xqq2

    The policy has forced the media to focus on the inadequate funding of and capacity in state schools and so has already achieved an important objective.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,073
    edited February 10
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Has there ever been a time when a LibDem leader has led a Conservative one on the best PM metric?

    Charles Kennedy IDS, maybe Davey Truss too. Notably Davey leads Farage as best PM too and is also closest to Starmer on that metric
    Davey’s the true man of the people, as this paean from The Levellers records:

    Dirty Davey's down the front
    And he's met the coppers there
    He'll be taking you in 'cause they hate your skin
    And you're dragged away by the hair

    It's a kick in the head and a prison bed
    And you tell me it's the law

    Well Davey's out on two weeks bail
    And he's down the town to score
    When it all falls in and he's pinned by the chin
    And they've busted every floor

    Davey's down the old grey squat
    And he's lying with his lass
    When there's a brick through the pane
    And he's out on the lane
    With the bailiffs and the glass

    The court comes up on a Monday morning
    And Davey's in the dock
    He can't stop his tears
    When he gets two years
    And he can't turn back the clock

    Well Davey's had it up to here
    Banging his head on the wall
    So he's tied his pants to the prison bars
    And he's hung till he's clear of it all

    There's a law for the rich
    And a law for the poor
    And a law for Dirty Davey
    His body's gone but his soul lives on
    Here's to you Dirty Davey

    Corrupt, corrupt from the bottom to the top
    And you tell me it's the law
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,922
    Taz said:

    Is this necessary?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/02/10/andrew-gwynne-whatsapp-chat-non-crime-hate-incident/

    Ex-Labour minister’s WhatsApp chat recorded as non-crime hate incident

    Police confirm they have begun inquiry into Andrew Gwynne’s messages

    I thought the Police up and down the country had stopped doing this.
    The police have been known to refuse to carry out lawful instructions.

    When a *court ruled* that they needed to dispose of DNA and fingerprints taken from innocent people under certain circumstances, the police carried on keeping them. Not just while appealing, but after all appeals had been exhausted.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,209

    Analysis of the Telegraph chicken nugget story: https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/s/pgJg85CaIU It’s bollocks.

    FPT-ing my explanation from behind the firewall.

    Basically, the lower tribunal said he can stay, but this was overturned at the next level up:-

    The judge, David Merrigan, said the only example of why the boy could not go to Albania was that he “will not eat the type of chicken nuggets that are available abroad”.

    “We are not persuaded that the addition of this sole example approaches anywhere near the level of harshness for a reasonable judge to find it to be ‘unduly’ so,” he said.

    He remitted the case to be reheard by a different judge in a lower tribunal to decide the “sole issue” of whether the consequences of deportation would be unduly harsh on the 10-year-old boy. The case is ongoing.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/02/09/albanian-criminal-deportation-halted-over-chicken-nuggets/ (£££)

    So clickbait from the Telegraph; ragebait from Jenrick & Philp.
    Partly, although the point was made that the only evidence offered initially was the nuggets aversion, and now more evidence is being sought. It raises the question why anybody thought that the stated aversion would ever be enough?
    Almost as though the remark was first made as a joke.

    Good afternoon, everybody.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,562
    edited February 10
    TimS said:

    Is this necessary?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/02/10/andrew-gwynne-whatsapp-chat-non-crime-hate-incident/

    Ex-Labour minister’s WhatsApp chat recorded as non-crime hate incident

    Police confirm they have begun inquiry into Andrew Gwynne’s messages

    No - there ought not be such a thing in the world.
    I’d quite like them to focus on non-hate crime incidents.
    Excellent line and point well made.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,328

    FPT

    TOPPING said:

    I think there would be a huge amount of fascinating, mind-expanding, and stimulating content in a course which has at its core "the toxic legacy of colonialism".

    Not least to puncture the exceptionalism of many in this country who might, incidentally, but centrally to the premise, bridle at the topic.

    But why not look at the legacy of colonialism in the round, rather than the toxic legacy?

    What other historical subjects have we predetermined the verdict on before we even teach them? The toxic legacy of Elizabeth I? The toxic legacy of the Romans? The toxic legacy of the Industrial Revolution? The toxic legacy of the Smoot Hawley Tariff Act?

    It is a cretinously ahistorical approach, which is how we can tell it is propaganda by grifters.
    Yes good point. Toxic in the title is not needed. It would, if it's an approach worth its salt, lead people to conclude that it was toxic but I don't like the pre-judging the way presented.

    Then again, we all forget things and misquote them unintentionally and @Casino_Royale put the phrase in quotation marks. I wonder whether they really were the exact words used.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,417
    edited February 10

    FPT

    TOPPING said:

    I think there would be a huge amount of fascinating, mind-expanding, and stimulating content in a course which has at its core "the toxic legacy of colonialism".

    Not least to puncture the exceptionalism of many in this country who might, incidentally, but centrally to the premise, bridle at the topic.

    But why not look at the legacy of colonialism in the round, rather than the toxic legacy?

    What other historical subjects have we predetermined the verdict on before we even teach them? The toxic legacy of Elizabeth I? The toxic legacy of the Romans? The toxic legacy of the Industrial Revolution? The toxic legacy of the Smoot Hawley Tariff Act?

    It is a cretinously ahistorical approach, which is how we can tell it is propaganda by grifters.
    Quite (and very eloquently phrased)

    "electricity was clearly evil, just look at the electric chair, that's what we'll be studying"

    It's a Woke version of anti-vaxxery
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,554

    HYUFD said:

    Badenoch is more a policy wonk than a natural leader. That said the latest Electoral Calculus poll average and seat forecast has the Conservatives gaining 35 seats on the last general election, despite a slightly lower voteshare as the Labour vote is down much more. Which would be rather better for the LOTO than Foot did in 1983 or Hague did in 2001 or Ed Miliband did in 2015 having taken over as LOTO like Kemi after their party lost power.

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html

    Note how almost as many LD voters as Tories think Badenoch would be a better PM than Farage, so she is at least making progress with LDs given comparison with Reform even if most Reform voters overwhelmingly prefer Farage to her.

    The fact most Conservative voters also think she is doing a good job should secure her position until the next GE given she won both the Tory MPs and Tory members votes

    I'm old enough to remember the guffaws from Harold Wilson, Jim Callaghan and Silly Billy Dennis Healey when the Conservatives stuck themselves with Margaret Thatcher. Looks to me like we have made the same mistake again.
    True, though Thatcher did not have another party to her right taking over 20% of the vote like Kemi does
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,554
    edited February 10

    FPT

    TOPPING said:

    I think there would be a huge amount of fascinating, mind-expanding, and stimulating content in a course which has at its core "the toxic legacy of colonialism".

    Not least to puncture the exceptionalism of many in this country who might, incidentally, but centrally to the premise, bridle at the topic.

    But why not look at the legacy of colonialism in the round, rather than the toxic legacy?

    What other historical subjects have we predetermined the verdict on before we even teach them? The toxic legacy of Elizabeth I? The toxic legacy of the Romans? The toxic legacy of the Industrial Revolution? The toxic legacy of the Smoot Hawley Tariff Act?

    It is a cretinously ahistorical approach, which is how we can tell it is propaganda by grifters.
    May as well just teach the toxic legacy of white heterosexual males (and rich privileged white females) and be done with it
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,458
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Has there ever been a time when a LibDem leader has led a Conservative one on the best PM metric?

    Charles Kennedy IDS, maybe Davey Truss too. Notably Davey leads Farage as best PM too and is also closest to Starmer on that metric.

    Davey also outpolls his party's voteshare on the best PM metric unlike the other 2 opposition leaders
    I'm staggered most voters know who Davey is
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,099
    .
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Has there ever been a time when a LibDem leader has led a Conservative one on the best PM metric?

    Charles Kennedy IDS, maybe Davey Truss too. Notably Davey leads Farage as best PM too and is also closest to Starmer on that metric
    Davey’s the true man of the people, as this paean from The Levellers records:

    Dirty Davey's down the front
    And he's met the coppers there
    He'll be taking you in 'cause they hate your skin
    And you're dragged away by the hair

    It's a kick in the head and a prison bed
    And you tell me it's the law

    Well Davey's out on two weeks bail
    And he's down the town to score
    When it all falls in and he's pinned by the chin
    And they've busted every floor

    Davey's down the old grey squat
    And he's lying with his lass
    When there's a brick through the pane
    And he's out on the lane
    With the bailiffs and the glass

    The court comes up on a Monday morning
    And Davey's in the dock
    He can't stop his tears
    When he gets two years
    And he can't turn back the clock

    Well Davey's had it up to here
    Banging his head on the wall
    So he's tied his pants to the prison bars
    And he's hung till he's clear of it all

    There's a law for the rich
    And a law for the poor
    And a law for Dirty Davey
    His body's gone but his soul lives on
    Here's to you Dirty Davey

    Corrupt, corrupt from the bottom to the top
    And you tell me it's the law
    Heh, that's a niche reference - are you a fan? They were a big influence in my formative years and played their part in my conversion from Telegraph-reading, Hague-supporting teenager to radical... um... centrist dad :lol:

    Good luck to anyone trying to pull Davey away by his hair though!
  • rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Has there ever been a time when a LibDem leader has led a Conservative one on the best PM metric?

    Charles Kennedy IDS, maybe Davey Truss too. Notably Davey leads Farage as best PM too and is also closest to Starmer on that metric.

    Davey also outpolls his party's voteshare on the best PM metric unlike the other 2 opposition leaders
    I'm staggered most voters know who Davey is
    It's down to his cunning stunts.

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/08/14/ed-daveys-cunning-stunts-worked-but-as-for-the-betting-scandal/
  • Is this necessary?

    "Necessary? Is it necessary for me to drink my own urine? No, but I do it anyway because it's sterile and I like the taste!"
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,099

    rcs1000 said:

    Has there ever been a time when a LibDem leader has led a Conservative one on the best PM metric?

    Best bungie jump?
    Yeah, but Davey was dropping fast :wink:
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,328
    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    TOPPING said:

    I think there would be a huge amount of fascinating, mind-expanding, and stimulating content in a course which has at its core "the toxic legacy of colonialism".

    Not least to puncture the exceptionalism of many in this country who might, incidentally, but centrally to the premise, bridle at the topic.

    But why not look at the legacy of colonialism in the round, rather than the toxic legacy?

    What other historical subjects have we predetermined the verdict on before we even teach them? The toxic legacy of Elizabeth I? The toxic legacy of the Romans? The toxic legacy of the Industrial Revolution? The toxic legacy of the Smoot Hawley Tariff Act?

    It is a cretinously ahistorical approach, which is how we can tell it is propaganda by grifters.
    May as well just teach the toxic legacy of white heterosexual males (and rich privileged white females) and be done with it
    There's something in that. There has been a history of oppression by white males (we have no particular record of their sexual preferences) and it would repay study.

    As mentioend to @Luckyguy1983 I don't think, from an academic study and investigation perspective, they should have appended the word "toxic" to the exercise because that is for people to determine themselves.

    But I'm glad you are thinking along the right lines of investigation, although I'm not sure where rich privileged white females fit into the hierarchy of oppression.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,458
    Leon said:

    FPT

    TOPPING said:

    I think there would be a huge amount of fascinating, mind-expanding, and stimulating content in a course which has at its core "the toxic legacy of colonialism".

    Not least to puncture the exceptionalism of many in this country who might, incidentally, but centrally to the premise, bridle at the topic.

    But why not look at the legacy of colonialism in the round, rather than the toxic legacy?

    What other historical subjects have we predetermined the verdict on before we even teach them? The toxic legacy of Elizabeth I? The toxic legacy of the Romans? The toxic legacy of the Industrial Revolution? The toxic legacy of the Smoot Hawley Tariff Act?

    It is a cretinously ahistorical approach, which is how we can tell it is propaganda by grifters.
    Quite (and very eloquently phrased)

    "electricity was clearly evil, just look at the electric chair, that's what we'll be studying"

    It's a Woke version of anti-vaxxery
    We've stopped using electricity because of its history of oppression.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,328
    Leon said:

    FPT

    TOPPING said:

    I think there would be a huge amount of fascinating, mind-expanding, and stimulating content in a course which has at its core "the toxic legacy of colonialism".

    Not least to puncture the exceptionalism of many in this country who might, incidentally, but centrally to the premise, bridle at the topic.

    But why not look at the legacy of colonialism in the round, rather than the toxic legacy?

    What other historical subjects have we predetermined the verdict on before we even teach them? The toxic legacy of Elizabeth I? The toxic legacy of the Romans? The toxic legacy of the Industrial Revolution? The toxic legacy of the Smoot Hawley Tariff Act?

    It is a cretinously ahistorical approach, which is how we can tell it is propaganda by grifters.
    Quite (and very eloquently phrased)

    "electricity was clearly evil, just look at the electric chair, that's what we'll be studying"

    It's a Woke version of anti-vaxxery
    No not the same. Obviously the gins are kicking in. A moment's more thought would have allowed you to come up with more of a pertinent analogy.
  • MPs set for above inflation pay rise to nearly £94,000
    https://news.sky.com/story/mps-set-for-above-inflation-pay-rise-to-nearly-94-000-13306631

    Just rejoice at that news.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,794

    Scandal hits the German Green leader:

    https://x.com/tom_nuttall/status/1888919745300152810

    It's not a real German election campaign until a senior politician has to deny that they plagiarised their doctorate.

    Very predictable that there'd be a smear campaign against the Greens.

    https://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/debatten/plagiatsvorwuerfe-gegen-habeck-unbegruendet-110287644.html
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,554

    MPs set for above inflation pay rise to nearly £94,000
    https://news.sky.com/story/mps-set-for-above-inflation-pay-rise-to-nearly-94-000-13306631

    Just rejoice at that news.

    Not bad for a job whose only qualification required is to win most votes at an election (even if MPs work long hours and with the media and online intrustion)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,994
    edited February 10
    I tell you what is confirming the evil legacies of colonialism is the racist English language, words like blackmail and blacklist.

    We need words and phrases to replace these racist words, I offer 'incentive based decision making' for blackmail.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,417
    The Thai dish of morning glory in garlic and chili is one of the secret spleandours of international cuisine

    https://khinskitchen.com/morning-glory-stir-fry/

    The bitterness of the morning glory is superbly countered by the hint of sugar, the heat from the chili, and the umami from oyster/fish and soy sauce

    https://khinskitchen.com/morning-glory-stir-fry/

    Takes 10 minutes?

    Wow

    https://www.thaicookbook.tv/thai-recipes/side-dishes/sir-fried-morning-glory-pad-pak-boong-fai-daeng/
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,562

    Taz said:

    Is this necessary?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/02/10/andrew-gwynne-whatsapp-chat-non-crime-hate-incident/

    Ex-Labour minister’s WhatsApp chat recorded as non-crime hate incident

    Police confirm they have begun inquiry into Andrew Gwynne’s messages

    I thought the Police up and down the country had stopped doing this.
    The police have been known to refuse to carry out lawful instructions.

    When a *court ruled* that they needed to dispose of DNA and fingerprints taken from innocent people under certain circumstances, the police carried on keeping them. Not just while appealing, but after all appeals had been exhausted.
    So, presumably, they still have them.

    Begs the question who polices the police then
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,554
    edited February 10
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    TOPPING said:

    I think there would be a huge amount of fascinating, mind-expanding, and stimulating content in a course which has at its core "the toxic legacy of colonialism".

    Not least to puncture the exceptionalism of many in this country who might, incidentally, but centrally to the premise, bridle at the topic.

    But why not look at the legacy of colonialism in the round, rather than the toxic legacy?

    What other historical subjects have we predetermined the verdict on before we even teach them? The toxic legacy of Elizabeth I? The toxic legacy of the Romans? The toxic legacy of the Industrial Revolution? The toxic legacy of the Smoot Hawley Tariff Act?

    It is a cretinously ahistorical approach, which is how we can tell it is propaganda by grifters.
    May as well just teach the toxic legacy of white heterosexual males (and rich privileged white females) and be done with it
    There's something in that. There has been a history of oppression by white males (we have no particular record of their sexual preferences) and it would repay study.

    As mentioend to @Luckyguy1983 I don't think, from an academic study and investigation perspective, they should have appended the word "toxic" to the exercise because that is for people to determine themselves.

    But I'm glad you are thinking along the right lines of investigation, although I'm not sure where rich privileged white females fit into the hierarchy of oppression.
    Presumably Mary Tudor, Queen Victoria, Elizabeth I, Catherine the Great etc all who either executed opponents or built Empires.

    Of course there were never any Empires built by Asian or Muslim or African or Latin American nations and slavery was always perpetrated by white men as was the climate destroying industrial revolution which certainly did nothing at all to ease poverty and create wealth. Women and gay men and trans were also subordinated into inferiority by evil patriarchical white males. Woke history teachers should therefore get white boys to stand up with a dunces cap on and walk around the classroom 3 times to be shouted and abused and shamed for the toxic legacy of their ancestors and their unjustified privilege
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,619
    .
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Has there ever been a time when a LibDem leader has led a Conservative one on the best PM metric?

    Charles Kennedy IDS, maybe Davey Truss too. Notably Davey leads Farage as best PM too and is also closest to Starmer on that metric.

    Davey also outpolls his party's voteshare on the best PM metric unlike the other 2 opposition leaders
    I'm staggered most voters know who Davey is
    More people know who Davey is than approve of Farage. Numbers are a bit low on both counts.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,372
    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    TOPPING said:

    I think there would be a huge amount of fascinating, mind-expanding, and stimulating content in a course which has at its core "the toxic legacy of colonialism".

    Not least to puncture the exceptionalism of many in this country who might, incidentally, but centrally to the premise, bridle at the topic.

    But why not look at the legacy of colonialism in the round, rather than the toxic legacy?

    What other historical subjects have we predetermined the verdict on before we even teach them? The toxic legacy of Elizabeth I? The toxic legacy of the Romans? The toxic legacy of the Industrial Revolution? The toxic legacy of the Smoot Hawley Tariff Act?

    It is a cretinously ahistorical approach, which is how we can tell it is propaganda by grifters.
    May as well just teach the toxic legacy of white heterosexual males (and rich privileged white females) and be done with it
    There's something in that. There has been a history of oppression by white males (we have no particular record of their sexual preferences) and it would repay study.

    As mentioend to @Luckyguy1983 I don't think, from an academic study and investigation perspective, they should have appended the word "toxic" to the exercise because that is for people to determine themselves.

    But I'm glad you are thinking along the right lines of investigation, although I'm not sure where rich privileged white females fit into the hierarchy of oppression.
    Presumably Mary Tudor, Queen Victoria, Elizabeth I, Catherine the Great etc all who either executed opponents or built Empires.

    Of course given there were never any Empires built by Asian or Muslim or African or Latin American nations and slavery was always perpetrated by white men woke history teachers should get white boys to stand up with a dunces cap on and walk around the classroom 3 times to be shouted and abused and shamed for the toxic legacy of their ancestors and their unjustified privilege
    Oh dear, you've been reading Our Island Story too many times and it has had the inevitable result.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,417
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    TOPPING said:

    I think there would be a huge amount of fascinating, mind-expanding, and stimulating content in a course which has at its core "the toxic legacy of colonialism".

    Not least to puncture the exceptionalism of many in this country who might, incidentally, but centrally to the premise, bridle at the topic.

    But why not look at the legacy of colonialism in the round, rather than the toxic legacy?

    What other historical subjects have we predetermined the verdict on before we even teach them? The toxic legacy of Elizabeth I? The toxic legacy of the Romans? The toxic legacy of the Industrial Revolution? The toxic legacy of the Smoot Hawley Tariff Act?

    It is a cretinously ahistorical approach, which is how we can tell it is propaganda by grifters.
    Quite and very eloquently phrased)

    "electricity was clearly evil, just look at the electric chair, that's what we'll be studying"

    It's a Woke version of anti-vaxxery
    No not the same. Obviously the gins are kicking in. A moment's more thought would have allowed you to come up with more of a pertinent analogy.
    Possibly. It's 10:20pm and I'm celebrating the FINAL end of my Tramadol withdrawal. Praise be

    OK on to the ludicrous but entertaining new season of Outlander
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,372
    edited February 10
    Selebian said:

    Scandal hits the German Green leader:

    https://x.com/tom_nuttall/status/1888919745300152810

    It's not a real German election campaign until a senior politician has to deny that they plagiarised their doctorate.

    Surely 'recycling' an old thesis is the right thing to do if you're Green?
    I've always been suspicious of such attacks ever since a Scottish Labour MSP got very excited about the SNP deleting words from inside verbatim quotations in government policy documents and putting "[...]" instead. That was real fraudulent, apparently.
  • I tell you what is confirming the evil legacies of colonialism is the racist English language, words like blackmail and blacklist.

    We need words and phrases to replace these racist words, I offer 'incentive based decision making' for blackmail.

    The English language is the EU's/South Asia's/Africa's window on the world.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,922

    TimS said:

    Is this necessary?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/02/10/andrew-gwynne-whatsapp-chat-non-crime-hate-incident/

    Ex-Labour minister’s WhatsApp chat recorded as non-crime hate incident

    Police confirm they have begun inquiry into Andrew Gwynne’s messages

    No - there ought not be such a thing in the world.
    I’d quite like them to focus on non-hate crime incidents. Like my car being nicked twice. No hate involved, but a bloody annoyance which the police seemed to think simply required them to issue a CRN for my insurance claim.
    In the modern age it ought to be simple for every car to be micro-chipped or tagged in some way that theft was impossible (aside of placing said vehicle in a Faraday cage). Add in automatic number plate recognition to track stolen car and surely car theft is over. But sadly there seems to be no appetite for this.
    Some cars are very hard to steal, because of such systems.

    Many are not.

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,423

    algarkirk said:

    Traditionally in UK politics, in looking at a Lab/Con party leader you are unconsciously looking at them as the leader of a group of maybe about 6-10 well known obviously capable politicians.

    So, among those in Thatcher's first cabinet were: Hailsham, Whitelaw, Howe, Carrington, Walker, Prior, Heseltine, Joseph, Jenkin.

    Now name 10 of Kemi's first cabinet....

    Johnson hollowed out the best people. It is why the Conservative Party is where is.
    Which means of course that if you plan to be his successor but three or whatever it is your task among other things is to use the media and other arts to create that competent ensemble around you. I am sorry to say I have to think carefully before giving a name to the shadow CoE, Chief Sec, Chief whip, leader of the house, Home Sec, Foreign Sec, Health and so on. So at best it is a work in progress.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,073
    edited February 10
    Selebian said:

    .

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Has there ever been a time when a LibDem leader has led a Conservative one on the best PM metric?

    Charles Kennedy IDS, maybe Davey Truss too. Notably Davey leads Farage as best PM too and is also closest to Starmer on that metric
    Davey’s the true man of the people, as this paean from The Levellers records:

    Dirty Davey's down the front
    And he's met the coppers there
    He'll be taking you in 'cause they hate your skin
    And you're dragged away by the hair

    It's a kick in the head and a prison bed
    And you tell me it's the law

    Well Davey's out on two weeks bail
    And he's down the town to score
    When it all falls in and he's pinned by the chin
    And they've busted every floor

    Davey's down the old grey squat
    And he's lying with his lass
    When there's a brick through the pane
    And he's out on the lane
    With the bailiffs and the glass

    The court comes up on a Monday morning
    And Davey's in the dock
    He can't stop his tears
    When he gets two years
    And he can't turn back the clock

    Well Davey's had it up to here
    Banging his head on the wall
    So he's tied his pants to the prison bars
    And he's hung till he's clear of it all

    There's a law for the rich
    And a law for the poor
    And a law for Dirty Davey
    His body's gone but his soul lives on
    Here's to you Dirty Davey

    Corrupt, corrupt from the bottom to the top
    And you tell me it's the law
    Heh, that's a niche reference - are you a fan? They were a big influence in my formative years and played their part in my conversion from Telegraph-reading, Hague-supporting teenager to radical... um... centrist dad :lol:

    Good luck to anyone trying to pull Davey away by his hair though!
    I do like a bit of the Levellers. Often have a cheeky listen when I’m alone in the car (rest of family are not fans).

    Some of the lyrics are really excellent, and they scan much better with the melody than some other political songwriting efforts (the Manics are the worst at poor scanning and excessive syllables per line).
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,922
    Carnyx said:

    Selebian said:

    Scandal hits the German Green leader:

    https://x.com/tom_nuttall/status/1888919745300152810

    It's not a real German election campaign until a senior politician has to deny that they plagiarised their doctorate.

    Surely 'recycling' an old thesis is the right thing to do if you're Green?
    I've always been suspicious of such attacks ever since a Scottish Labour MSP got very excited about the SNP deleting words from inside verbatim quotations in government policy documents and putting "[...]" instead. That was real fraudulent, apparently.
    In the case of degree theses and German politicians - a number of them have been caught by this already.

    A journalist of enquiring mind downloaded the theses in question and ran them against plagiarism checkers….

    So many were found, in fact that the institutions in question simply ignored the issue.

    IIRC 40% of Ursula von der Leyen’s thesis was copy and pasta…
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,458
    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    TOPPING said:

    I think there would be a huge amount of fascinating, mind-expanding, and stimulating content in a course which has at its core "the toxic legacy of colonialism".

    Not least to puncture the exceptionalism of many in this country who might, incidentally, but centrally to the premise, bridle at the topic.

    But why not look at the legacy of colonialism in the round, rather than the toxic legacy?

    What other historical subjects have we predetermined the verdict on before we even teach them? The toxic legacy of Elizabeth I? The toxic legacy of the Romans? The toxic legacy of the Industrial Revolution? The toxic legacy of the Smoot Hawley Tariff Act?

    It is a cretinously ahistorical approach, which is how we can tell it is propaganda by grifters.
    May as well just teach the toxic legacy of white heterosexual males (and rich privileged white females) and be done with it
    There's something in that. There has been a history of oppression by white males (we have no particular record of their sexual preferences) and it would repay study.

    As mentioend to @Luckyguy1983 I don't think, from an academic study and investigation perspective, they should have appended the word "toxic" to the exercise because that is for people to determine themselves.

    But I'm glad you are thinking along the right lines of investigation, although I'm not sure where rich privileged white females fit into the hierarchy of oppression.
    Presumably Mary Tudor, Queen Victoria, Elizabeth I, Catherine the Great etc all who either executed opponents or built Empires.

    Of course there were never any Empires built by Asian or Muslim or African or Latin American nations and slavery was always perpetrated by white men as was the climate destroying industrial revolution which certainly did nothing at all to ease poverty and create wealth. Women and gay men and trans were also subordinated into inferiority by evil patriarchical white males. Woke history teachers should therefore get white boys to stand up with a dunces cap on and walk around the classroom 3 times to be shouted and abused and shamed for the toxic legacy of their ancestors and their unjustified privilege
    Queen Christina of Sweden was an early trans monarch, and her forces rained death and destruction.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,776
    So as not to disappoint PB with my tendency to take a contrarian view, there are some reasons to be cheerful from a Badenoch perspective.

    - She recently gave CCHQ a collective kick up the arse. Granted, she perhaps should have just given them their marching orders, but one must start somewhere.
    - Her last PMQs outing was a growling display of conservative populism, reducing Starmer to a heap of separated mayonnaise. More of that please.
    - She has (against all expectations) finally released a policy. And whilst being small, it was an OK one. Not even close to a solution to mass migration, but broadly sensible, not heavily criticised from the right, and not caused an upset with the wets.

    Well done Kemi!
  • Labour peer calls for ‘arrogant, progressive fool’ Lord Hermer to quit
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/02/10/lord-hermer-labour-calls-to-quit/ (£££)

    Trouble at t'mill.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,121

    I tell you what is confirming the evil legacies of colonialism is the racist English language, words like blackmail and blacklist.

    We need words and phrases to replace these racist words, I offer 'incentive based decision making' for blackmail.

    “Incentive based decision making” also covers bribes so I don’t think it makes things as clear as you hope
  • eekeek Posts: 29,121
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Has there ever been a time when a LibDem leader has led a Conservative one on the best PM metric?

    Charles Kennedy IDS, maybe Davey Truss too. Notably Davey leads Farage as best PM too and is also closest to Starmer on that metric.

    Davey also outpolls his party's voteshare on the best PM metric unlike the other 2 opposition leaders
    I'm staggered most voters know who Davey is
    Davey spent the entire election being the comedy element - even if you don’t know him it’s very easy to remind people - he was the one windsurfing/ rollercoaster riding in the election
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,554
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    TOPPING said:

    I think there would be a huge amount of fascinating, mind-expanding, and stimulating content in a course which has at its core "the toxic legacy of colonialism".

    Not least to puncture the exceptionalism of many in this country who might, incidentally, but centrally to the premise, bridle at the topic.

    But why not look at the legacy of colonialism in the round, rather than the toxic legacy?

    What other historical subjects have we predetermined the verdict on before we even teach them? The toxic legacy of Elizabeth I? The toxic legacy of the Romans? The toxic legacy of the Industrial Revolution? The toxic legacy of the Smoot Hawley Tariff Act?

    It is a cretinously ahistorical approach, which is how we can tell it is propaganda by grifters.
    May as well just teach the toxic legacy of white heterosexual males (and rich privileged white females) and be done with it
    There's something in that. There has been a history of oppression by white males (we have no particular record of their sexual preferences) and it would repay study.

    As mentioend to @Luckyguy1983 I don't think, from an academic study and investigation perspective, they should have appended the word "toxic" to the exercise because that is for people to determine themselves.

    But I'm glad you are thinking along the right lines of investigation, although I'm not sure where rich privileged white females fit into the hierarchy of oppression.
    Presumably Mary Tudor, Queen Victoria, Elizabeth I, Catherine the Great etc all who either executed opponents or built Empires.

    Of course given there were never any Empires built by Asian or Muslim or African or Latin American nations and slavery was always perpetrated by white men woke history teachers should get white boys to stand up with a dunces cap on and walk around the classroom 3 times to be shouted and abused and shamed for the toxic legacy of their ancestors and their unjustified privilege
    Oh dear, you've been reading Our Island Story too many times and it has had the inevitable result.
    An ideal policy for Kemi and Nigel, make reading 'Our Island Story' compulsory in all secondary school history classes so they get to see all views of our past
  • eek said:

    I tell you what is confirming the evil legacies of colonialism is the racist English language, words like blackmail and blacklist.

    We need words and phrases to replace these racist words, I offer 'incentive based decision making' for blackmail.

    “Incentive based decision making” also covers bribes so I don’t think it makes things as clear as you hope
    You say bribes, I say facilitation fees.
  • So as not to disappoint PB with my tendency to take a contrarian view, there are some reasons to be cheerful from a Badenoch perspective.

    - She recently gave CCHQ a collective kick up the arse. Granted, she perhaps should have just given them their marching orders, but one must start somewhere.
    - Her last PMQs outing was a growling display of conservative populism, reducing Starmer to a heap of separated mayonnaise. More of that please.
    - She has (against all expectations) finally released a policy. And whilst being small, it was an OK one. Not even close to a solution to mass migration, but broadly sensible, not heavily criticised from the right, and not caused an upset with the wets.

    Well done Kemi!

    Rather a niche view of PMQs last week, dare I say?

    Advice to Kemi – you have six questions. Do not ask three questions in one, or Starmer will just answer the easiest one. Do not make a short speech in any of the questions. Do not reply to Keir, just move on. In short, ask six questions.
  • eek said:

    I tell you what is confirming the evil legacies of colonialism is the racist English language, words like blackmail and blacklist.

    We need words and phrases to replace these racist words, I offer 'incentive based decision making' for blackmail.

    “Incentive based decision making” also covers bribes so I don’t think it makes things as clear as you hope
    You say bribes, I say facilitation fees.
    Advance commission payments.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,044

    eek said:

    I tell you what is confirming the evil legacies of colonialism is the racist English language, words like blackmail and blacklist.

    We need words and phrases to replace these racist words, I offer 'incentive based decision making' for blackmail.

    “Incentive based decision making” also covers bribes so I don’t think it makes things as clear as you hope
    You say bribes, I say facilitation fees.
    “Incentives” is certainly the word one is looking for.

    “Blackmail” is “persuasion.”


  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,794
    kamski said:

    Scandal hits the German Green leader:

    https://x.com/tom_nuttall/status/1888919745300152810

    It's not a real German election campaign until a senior politician has to deny that they plagiarised their doctorate.

    Very predictable that there'd be a smear campaign against the Greens.

    https://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/debatten/plagiatsvorwuerfe-gegen-habeck-unbegruendet-110287644.html
    By the way, this Stefan Weber has a history of making false accusations, has a conviction for defamation, and refuses to say who his clients are.

    If you want to make an informed judgment about Habeck's 'plagiarism' read the article linked above. It amounts to some typos in the footnotes.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,562
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    TOPPING said:

    I think there would be a huge amount of fascinating, mind-expanding, and stimulating content in a course which has at its core "the toxic legacy of colonialism".

    Not least to puncture the exceptionalism of many in this country who might, incidentally, but centrally to the premise, bridle at the topic.

    But why not look at the legacy of colonialism in the round, rather than the toxic legacy?

    What other historical subjects have we predetermined the verdict on before we even teach them? The toxic legacy of Elizabeth I? The toxic legacy of the Romans? The toxic legacy of the Industrial Revolution? The toxic legacy of the Smoot Hawley Tariff Act?

    It is a cretinously ahistorical approach, which is how we can tell it is propaganda by grifters.
    May as well just teach the toxic legacy of white heterosexual males (and rich privileged white females) and be done with it
    There's something in that. There has been a history of oppression by white males (we have no particular record of their sexual preferences) and it would repay study.

    As mentioend to @Luckyguy1983 I don't think, from an academic study and investigation perspective, they should have appended the word "toxic" to the exercise because that is for people to determine themselves.

    But I'm glad you are thinking along the right lines of investigation, although I'm not sure where rich privileged white females fit into the hierarchy of oppression.
    Presumably Mary Tudor, Queen Victoria, Elizabeth I, Catherine the Great etc all who either executed opponents or built Empires.

    Of course there were never any Empires built by Asian or Muslim or African or Latin American nations and slavery was always perpetrated by white men as was the climate destroying industrial revolution which certainly did nothing at all to ease poverty and create wealth. Women and gay men and trans were also subordinated into inferiority by evil patriarchical white males. Woke history teachers should therefore get white boys to stand up with a dunces cap on and walk around the classroom 3 times to be shouted and abused and shamed for the toxic legacy of their ancestors and their unjustified privilege
    Queen Christina of Sweden was an early trans monarch, and her forces rained death and destruction.
    Elagabalus has also been claimed as a very early Trans ruler.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,200
    Does anyone have a link to our PB Tesla channel?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,044
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    TOPPING said:

    I think there would be a huge amount of fascinating, mind-expanding, and stimulating content in a course which has at its core "the toxic legacy of colonialism".

    Not least to puncture the exceptionalism of many in this country who might, incidentally, but centrally to the premise, bridle at the topic.

    But why not look at the legacy of colonialism in the round, rather than the toxic legacy?

    What other historical subjects have we predetermined the verdict on before we even teach them? The toxic legacy of Elizabeth I? The toxic legacy of the Romans? The toxic legacy of the Industrial Revolution? The toxic legacy of the Smoot Hawley Tariff Act?

    It is a cretinously ahistorical approach, which is how we can tell it is propaganda by grifters.
    May as well just teach the toxic legacy of white heterosexual males (and rich privileged white females) and be done with it
    There's something in that. There has been a history of oppression by white males (we have no particular record of their sexual preferences) and it would repay study.

    As mentioend to @Luckyguy1983 I don't think, from an academic study and investigation perspective, they should have appended the word "toxic" to the exercise because that is for people to determine themselves.

    But I'm glad you are thinking along the right lines of investigation, although I'm not sure where rich privileged white females fit into the hierarchy of oppression.
    Presumably Mary Tudor, Queen Victoria, Elizabeth I, Catherine the Great etc all who either executed opponents or built Empires.

    Of course there were never any Empires built by Asian or Muslim or African or Latin American nations and slavery was always perpetrated by white men as was the climate destroying industrial revolution which certainly did nothing at all to ease poverty and create wealth. Women and gay men and trans were also subordinated into inferiority by evil patriarchical white males. Woke history teachers should therefore get white boys to stand up with a dunces cap on and walk around the classroom 3 times to be shouted and abused and shamed for the toxic legacy of their ancestors and their unjustified privilege
    Queen Christina of Sweden was an early trans monarch, and her forces rained death and destruction.
    Even by 17th century standards, the Swedish army was brutal.

    In general post-colonialism prioritises between conquerors.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,794

    Carnyx said:

    Selebian said:

    Scandal hits the German Green leader:

    https://x.com/tom_nuttall/status/1888919745300152810

    It's not a real German election campaign until a senior politician has to deny that they plagiarised their doctorate.

    Surely 'recycling' an old thesis is the right thing to do if you're Green?
    I've always been suspicious of such attacks ever since a Scottish Labour MSP got very excited about the SNP deleting words from inside verbatim quotations in government policy documents and putting "[...]" instead. That was real fraudulent, apparently.
    In the case of degree theses and German politicians - a number of them have been caught by this already.

    A journalist of enquiring mind downloaded the theses in question and ran them against plagiarism checkers….

    So many were found, in fact that the institutions in question simply ignored the issue.

    IIRC 40% of Ursula von der Leyen’s thesis was copy and pasta…
    which institutions ignored which issues?
This discussion has been closed.