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A reminder, people with class do not talk about class – politicalbetting.com

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  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,641
    dixiedean said:

    Yet another plane lost in US.

    You're joking. How awful. This is the first I've heard of it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,436
    Just noticed that my shares - mainly invested in American tech - have now recouped all their “losses” from DeepSeek

    Pfff
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,911

    dixiedean said:

    Mango Man off on one about straws, now.

    Republican version of virtue signaling (Vice Signaling?).
    Saves having to address real problems.
    As in his first term he's making things worse, if he just played golf for 4 years things would be better.
    Reverse virtue signaling is definitely a thing. It's probably more common than the original now.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,645
    Leon said:

    Omnium said:

    Trump is no longer orange. I wonder when he washed it out... sorry I mean I wonder when the natural aging process took it's course and that that the weird tangerine colour naturally vanished overnight?

    When he won his last election and being on camera meant less

    He’s letting his hair go white, as well. Suits him
    Does it. He is still the best example of the German word "backpfeifengesicht" that I can think of.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,117
    .
    Andy_JS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Yet another plane lost in US.

    You're joking. How awful. This is the first I've heard of it.
    Cessna with 10 aboard in Alaska.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,683
    Andy_JS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Yet another plane lost in US.

    You're joking. How awful. This is the first I've heard of it.
    No. Small scheduled plane in Alaska.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,775
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Skyr Toolmakersson is a mild insult because it sounds like one of the more earnest, boring characters in the Sagas, the sort of sexless @kinabalu type who tries to stop all the axe-murdering with plaintive appeals to good sense and proper budgeting even as they have eerie secrets of their own

    Leon from Camden though - a god - sounds like a god, must be a god. Well apart from the 'Leon from Camden' bit.

    Sounds like a dealer. Or a bad hairdresser at 90 quid a pop!

    Or one of the VERY minor characters from Withnail and I.

    Leon from Camden was always trying to pass off toasted banana skins as good gear.
    Nonetheless memorable

    You’d never forget Leon from Camden

    That’s probably why you’d make him a minor character in your breakout movie script

    Have I ever told my Bruce Robinson story? It’s rather good
    Fire away, as long as it reflects a little bit discreditably on you.
    So this was early 1987 and Withnail was just out and my best friend X (now quite famous in Hollywood but then just a rascal like me) said “hey I’ve worked out where Bruce Robinson lives it’s in Wimbledon let’s go and see him”

    I mean wtf?! But we were mad then. Mad and young

    So we literally just went round to his big house in Wimbledon and rocked up and buzzed his doorbell (with no warning. And he had no idea who we were) and Bruce R answered the door except he answered it in shorts and tee shirt on a cold night and he had an oxygen mask clamped over his face and he was wheeling an oxygen tank

    We thought omg and then he started laughing and we said Hey we love your movie and he said “hahah ok come in” and it turned out he just inhaled oxygen for fun and he gave us a tour of his beautiful house and beautiful wife and beautiful scripts (including withnail!!) and then he said “hey you kids are fun” and he took us round the corner to a curry house and bought us dinner and paid for everything including very very expensive wine and at the end he signed a copy of the withnail script with “more oxygen!” written inside (it became a joke of the whole evening) and I still have it now

    And I’ve always thought: what a fucking dude. Two wastrel kids turn up on your door without warning and you have the balls and the wit to turn it into something fun for everyone
    Always good to hear people you like are good guys rather than rsoles. Or really good guys in this case.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,342

    Has @HYUFD seen the latest polling from Northern Ireland?

    Under 50% support for the Union with Britain, only 20% of Northern Protestants would find a victory for Irish Unity in a border poll "almost impossible to accept".

    https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2025/02/07/support-for-irish-unification-grows-but-unity-vote-would-be-soundly-defeated-in-north-poll-shows/

    Ah, but they are the only 20% that matter (in HYUFD world).
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,474
    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Mango Man off on one about straws, now.

    Republican version of virtue signaling (Vice Signaling?).
    Saves having to address real problems.
    As in his first term he's making things worse, if he just played golf for 4 years things would be better.
    Reverse virtue signaling is definitely a thing. It's probably more common than the original now.
    As someone who recently sat through a corporate briefing which was 10% climate change, 60% DEI, and 30% the work we are actually here for - I strongly dispute that. The public sector in Greater Manchester is very much doubling down on the virtue signalling.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,342
    Cookie said:

    TimS said:

    Good evening from my holiday cottage at the far North Western tip of Assynt.



    From the hill here I can see Lewis, the whole of Assynt and its inselbergs, the coast of Wester Ross and all the way to Skye.

    Magnificent.
    You have been very lucky with the weather. The night sky will be brilliant.
    Venus is particularly bright in the south west sky just now.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,911

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    O/T I couldn't really care less whether Toolmakerson is middle class or working class (whatever either of those ridiculous labels mean). What I do care about is that he and his hopeless CoE are fucking up the economy because they do not understand the first thing about business. You can be from any background to understand business, and also from any background to be totally clueless, such as Keir From HR and Rachel From Customer Complaints.

    Is "Keir From HR" one that you yourself have coined, Nigel?
    I think it was sort of coined by one of his colleagues. Someone I assume who might not be asked to explain by BJO.
    Ah ok. I've not come across it.

    Anyway, question for you. Why have you become so irritated by his voice? You never used to be. What's going on there?
    I suspect it was coined on here to gender balance the Rachel from accounts insult.

    It is odd that Starmer (who I don't have a great deal of time for) is pilloried for his parentage, the donkey, his adenoidal speech and his dreary delivery. This is all very similar to the criticism he got on here prior to the Batley and Spen by election.

    Now the same posters falling over each other to call Starmer a traitor we're quite comfortable to see Johnson shake off his minders to attend a party with a KGB officer whilst Foreign Secretary, the same people who cried that Johnson was unfairly attacked for being ambushed by a cake wanted Starmer's nuts for having a curry in Durham.

    It is true @Kinabalu that you and I beasted Johnson for putting a border in the North Channel /Irish Sea, whilst claiming his oven ready Brexit deal. For missing Cobra meetings and shaking hands with COVID nurses when shaking hands was off limits, whilst all the time claiming his own "World beating " status for everything he did during Covid. There may be a reasonable charge sheet against Starmer, but it remains slim compared to that of the narcissistic **** many on here idolise.
    We did too. Those were the days. Ripping into a PM who deserved every bit of it and more.
    And HYUFD defended him even though he was shit, just the same as you defend Starmer even though he is shit. The moral and analytical vacuum that exists in the head of a party loyalist eh?
    I only defend him selectively. If I see merit in a criticism I let it go. OK, so I won't join in with both feet but why would I? I'm a member of the party. If it gets too Tory/RUK like or Trump licking I'll leave but until then I am.

    This is a harder path and it's an honourable one. It's a piece of cake to just fire off strong opinions from a position of supposed neutrality. People do that to show off and feel good about themselves. I find it self-indulgent and boring.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,436
    I clearly have this gene. Suspect a couple of my fellow PBers also have it


    3/ ADHD & The Wanderlust Gene

    The DRD4 7R allele is associated with higher impulsivity, risk-taking, and exploration-traits once adaptive in a nomadic lifestyle.

    - Among the Ariaal people of Kenya, DRD4 carriers had better nutrition as nomads.

    - But when they settled, this advantage disappeared!

    This suggests ADHD-linked traits may have been useful for exploration but not for sedentary living

    https://x.com/sanilrege/status/1887753253070504267?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Question is: how did our forefathers endure the boredom as peasant farmhands and tin miners? Must have been excruciating
  • The new MRP poll shows how much of a threat Reform are to Labour:

    https://x.com/marwandata/status/1887872745100185763

    Reform UK would gain 147 seats off Labour and 19 off the Conservatives.

    You can see individual seat predictions here:

    https://plmr.co.uk/theroadto2029/

    The most astonishing thing is Lab's predicted near wipe out in Wales only retaining the 4 Cardiff seats and Blaenau Gwent

    Con 178, Ref 175, Lab 174 - would likely mean an Irish style rotating PM arrangement between Con and Ref
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,909
    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes I agree, voters have elected toffs like Cameron, upper middle class lawyers like Blair, lower middle glass grocers daughters like Thatcher and working class sons of trapeze artists and tool makers and builders like Major and Starmer and Heath. They will elect based on a PM's record. Though the correct answer is Starmer is middle class now with a working class upbringing.

    All PMs have been middle class effectively though, though we have had working class Deputy PMs like Prescott and Rayner.

    While Cameron was borderline upper class we haven't had a genuine upper class peer of the realm as PM since Douglas Home, who was Earl of Home for 2 years before giving up his title and leaving the Lords to enter the Commons again as PM, you can only be upper class by birth or arguably marriage. Once the last remaining hereditary peers leave parliament there will be almost no upper class members of the Houses of Parliament left, except a handful of life peer appointed hereditaries like Viscount Thurso (who also managed to win a Commons seat once the ban on peers becoming MPs was lifted)

    MacDonald was definitely working class when Labour formed their first government in 1924. Less so when he formed the National one in 1931. Perhaps Callaghan too, although there's an argument he was lower-middle class by the time he was elected an MP.
    I read Callaghan's biography as part of the "20 Prime Ministers of the 20th Century series". Irish father, English mother, Dad died when he was nine leaving him and his Mum in near-poverty, Callaghan joined the Civil Service, became a Baptist Sunday School teacher, union official, joined the RN, served in the Far East in wartime, became a MP, worked his way up...all the way up. You don't get politicians like that these days. Now it's all PPE grads and [badwords]
    Ordinary Seaman to Lieutenant - and not briefly OS as an initial officer candidate but doing it the hard way through Chief Petty Officer while still a youngish one. Difficult prewar, only really possible in war, getting trickier after the war though not impossible.
    The Americans call them "mustangs"
    Ryan: "They're tank-busters, sir. P-51s."

    Captain Miller: "Angels on our shoulders."
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,622
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Skyr Toolmakersson is a mild insult because it sounds like one of the more earnest, boring characters in the Sagas, the sort of sexless @kinabalu type who tries to stop all the axe-murdering with plaintive appeals to good sense and proper budgeting even as they have eerie secrets of their own

    No, Nigel F is right. It sounds very strong and swoony. It's the equivalent of that backfiring Labour ad spoofing Dave as the Life On Mars cop. I'd drop it if I were you (although as a Lab supporter I hope you don't).
    I use it for my own amusement because it reaffirms my intrinsic cleverness (“Skyr” is a bland Icelandic yoghurt)

    I care not a whit if anyone else uses it, you tiny-dick pinhead
    Have you tried Skyr? I wouldn't describe it as bland. Tart as a wasp's anus.
    How do you know what a wasp's anus tastes like?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,909

    Cookie said:

    TimS said:

    Good evening from my holiday cottage at the far North Western tip of Assynt.



    From the hill here I can see Lewis, the whole of Assynt and its inselbergs, the coast of Wester Ross and all the way to Skye.

    Magnificent.
    You have been very lucky with the weather. The night sky will be brilliant.
    Venus is particularly bright in the south west sky just now.

    Also Jupiter due south, and Mars in the southeast.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,911

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    O/T I couldn't really care less whether Toolmakerson is middle class or working class (whatever either of those ridiculous labels mean). What I do care about is that he and his hopeless CoE are fucking up the economy because they do not understand the first thing about business. You can be from any background to understand business, and also from any background to be totally clueless, such as Keir From HR and Rachel From Customer Complaints.

    Is "Keir From HR" one that you yourself have coined, Nigel?
    I think it was sort of coined by one of his colleagues. Someone I assume who might not be asked to explain by BJO.
    Ah ok. I've not come across it.

    Anyway, question for you. Why have you become so irritated by his voice? You never used to be. What's going on there?
    I have been on a journey, shall I say. I was never a natural supporter of Labour, but as a believer in democracy I realise that we have to have exchanges of power, and the Tories, particularly under Johnson, had become terrible. I believe that Sunak was beginning to turn things around but it was too late.

    I was therefore relieved that Mr Thicky was out and to begin with I thought Starmer, who had a reasonably impressive backstory (albeit largely within the featherbedded public sector), would probably make a good PM. He has turned out to be shit. When the real test has come it is evident he is at best mediocre. Therefore his voice has become more and more boring, nasally and irritating, but most annoying of all is his complete lack of humility; an arrogance that is normally assumed by people such as yourself to be an uniquely Tory trait.
    Ok, thanks. That sounds sincere although I think you're being too harsh and too hasty. Anyway, we'll get another vote in 2029 and if I'm wrong and he doesn't turn out to be ok, perhaps better than ok, it'll just be the one term rather than two or three. Which will be a shame because somebody, anybody, needs a decade to have a significant and lasting positive impact on the country. You can trash things quickly (Johnson, Truss) but the opposite takes time.
    He has no plan and no clue. He is like Johnson without the bonhomie and charisma. An empty suit. And as for Rachel From Customer Complaints, the second most important office of state ffs. She is so shit she needed to lie on her CV. When you think about the gravity of what she is in charge of it is really shocking that we have to have someone so below mediocre in such a position. If it turns around it will be sheer luck. It is said that a chief executive's future is defined by his/her first few months in post. Keir From HR has been found out. He is shit and his CoE is even worse.
    As I say, self-indulgent and boring. Sorry, Nigel.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999

    Ever since my forebears left the banks of the Danube for Wales in 1000BC we haven't been able to understand the British class system.

    Given that they travelled through Switzerland France and England en route you might question their judgement…
    They settled in England until you Anglo Saxons sent them packing to Wales around 700 BC.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,909
    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Skyr Toolmakersson is a mild insult because it sounds like one of the more earnest, boring characters in the Sagas, the sort of sexless @kinabalu type who tries to stop all the axe-murdering with plaintive appeals to good sense and proper budgeting even as they have eerie secrets of their own

    No, Nigel F is right. It sounds very strong and swoony. It's the equivalent of that backfiring Labour ad spoofing Dave as the Life On Mars cop. I'd drop it if I were you (although as a Lab supporter I hope you don't).
    I use it for my own amusement because it reaffirms my intrinsic cleverness (“Skyr” is a bland Icelandic yoghurt)

    I care not a whit if anyone else uses it, you tiny-dick pinhead
    Have you tried Skyr? I wouldn't describe it as bland. Tart as a wasp's anus.
    How do you know what a wasp's anus tastes like?
    A stinging rebuke?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999
    Leon said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Is there a leadership election on?

    https://x.com/gbnews/status/1887863894493802632

    Furious residents of Britain's second biggest city tell @RobertJenrick they are sick of their areas being trashed while the clean up can take weeks.

    Fair play to Jenrick, he actually comes across as normal in that. Looks horrific, how can people live like this?
    The Conservatives crashed the car, they are now surveying the wreckage and asking "who crashed this car?"
    Yes of course. All Birmingham's many ills, including fly-tipping are entirely down to the Conservatives and nothing to do with the Labour run council who have been in control for the last 13 years.

    At some point, Labour and their supporters will have to take some responsibility. I understand it will be hard for you.
    I am not a particular fan of the Labour Party, although my criticism of the party in Government would be a different set to yours. However I do utterly despise the most recent iterations of the Conservative Party. Local Government including Conservative authorities were shafted hard by the Conservative Governments through the years of austerity and beyond. There is little sign this lot will be much better. But your pals broke local government. Own it!
    I don't need to own it. This isn't happening everywhere in the country, just certain parts. I don't walk around my local towns and see this. This is Birmingham, Labour controlled, 13 years now.

    As Taz said, there are numerous threads to the 'blame', albeit the obvious one is the people who are doing it. I can accept Conservative governments have a part to play too.

    Your kneejerk lazy reaction to entirely blame some fly-tipping on the Conservatives, who are neither in control of the council nor the country, is the expected reaction of someone who isn't willing to accept responsibility.

    It's going to be a tough journey for Labour supporters from carping and blaming on the sidelines to accepting responsibility. Especially with a potential self-inflicted recession, home grown inflation and increasing unemployment. Own it!
    Jenrick makes it all quite clear in that video, for anyone attuned
    Oh FFS - could you stop this 'if you were as smart as me crap'.
    If it upsets you just scroll past his posts, that's what I do. I find PB a far more amenable prospect for so doing.
    lol. You literally complain every time I start commenting

    Eg your reaction to my Chagos remarks: an endless whine
    Sorry! I can't respond because I skip over your posts.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,622
    Leon said:

    I clearly have this gene. Suspect a couple of my fellow PBers also have it


    3/ ADHD & The Wanderlust Gene

    The DRD4 7R allele is associated with higher impulsivity, risk-taking, and exploration-traits once adaptive in a nomadic lifestyle.

    - Among the Ariaal people of Kenya, DRD4 carriers had better nutrition as nomads.

    - But when they settled, this advantage disappeared!

    This suggests ADHD-linked traits may have been useful for exploration but not for sedentary living

    https://x.com/sanilrege/status/1887753253070504267?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Question is: how did our forefathers endure the boredom as peasant farmhands and tin miners? Must have been excruciating

    https://youtu.be/Grg5tULy0tY?si=HlWLiT2FtoDMIXFm
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,911
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Mango Man off on one about straws, now.

    Republican version of virtue signaling (Vice Signaling?).
    Saves having to address real problems.
    As in his first term he's making things worse, if he just played golf for 4 years things would be better.
    Reverse virtue signaling is definitely a thing. It's probably more common than the original now.
    As someone who recently sat through a corporate briefing which was 10% climate change, 60% DEI, and 30% the work we are actually here for - I strongly dispute that. The public sector in Greater Manchester is very much doubling down on the virtue signalling.
    Well I defer on your precise environment obviously. And that's good to hear.

    But would you recognise the opposite equally well? I doubt it.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,474
    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Skyr Toolmakersson is a mild insult because it sounds like one of the more earnest, boring characters in the Sagas, the sort of sexless @kinabalu type who tries to stop all the axe-murdering with plaintive appeals to good sense and proper budgeting even as they have eerie secrets of their own

    No, Nigel F is right. It sounds very strong and swoony. It's the equivalent of that backfiring Labour ad spoofing Dave as the Life On Mars cop. I'd drop it if I were you (although as a Lab supporter I hope you don't).
    I use it for my own amusement because it reaffirms my intrinsic cleverness (“Skyr” is a bland Icelandic yoghurt)

    I care not a whit if anyone else uses it, you tiny-dick pinhead
    Have you tried Skyr? I wouldn't describe it as bland. Tart as a wasp's anus.
    How do you know what a wasp's anus tastes like?
    I imagine it would taste pretty damn tart.
    If you want to proveme wrong I would be very interested and will happily withdraw my similie.
    And in reply to Leon, they must have ani, or equivalents? Excretion is one of the characteristics of life. So I'm sure your insect poo mimes were almost wholly biologically accurate. Probably got your daughters where they are today.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,237
    Leon said:

    I clearly have this gene. Suspect a couple of my fellow PBers also have it


    3/ ADHD & The Wanderlust Gene

    The DRD4 7R allele is associated with higher impulsivity, risk-taking, and exploration-traits once adaptive in a nomadic lifestyle.

    - Among the Ariaal people of Kenya, DRD4 carriers had better nutrition as nomads.

    - But when they settled, this advantage disappeared!

    This suggests ADHD-linked traits may have been useful for exploration but not for sedentary living

    https://x.com/sanilrege/status/1887753253070504267?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Question is: how did our forefathers endure the boredom as peasant farmhands and tin miners? Must have been excruciating

    Boredom is a privilege of the reasonably fed and reasonably pain free.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,446
    Leon said:


    Question is: how did our forefathers endure the boredom as peasant farmhands and tin miners? Must have been excruciating

    The daily struggle to survive can overcome boredom. Amazing what people can get used to, as people in warzones could probably tell us.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,342

    Cookie said:

    TimS said:

    Good evening from my holiday cottage at the far North Western tip of Assynt.



    From the hill here I can see Lewis, the whole of Assynt and its inselbergs, the coast of Wester Ross and all the way to Skye.

    Magnificent.
    You have been very lucky with the weather. The night sky will be brilliant.
    Venus is particularly bright in the south west sky just now.

    Also Jupiter due south, and Mars in the southeast.
    And with clear skies forecast for the next few days, @IanB2 has picked the perfect time to visit Assynt.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,237

    The new MRP poll shows how much of a threat Reform are to Labour:

    https://x.com/marwandata/status/1887872745100185763

    Reform UK would gain 147 seats off Labour and 19 off the Conservatives.

    You can see individual seat predictions here:

    https://plmr.co.uk/theroadto2029/

    The most astonishing thing is Lab's predicted near wipe out in Wales only retaining the 4 Cardiff seats and Blaenau Gwent

    Con 178, Ref 175, Lab 174 - would likely mean an Irish style rotating PM arrangement between Con and Ref
    Joy of joys, it actually seems to include expected turn-outs!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,474
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Mango Man off on one about straws, now.

    Republican version of virtue signaling (Vice Signaling?).
    Saves having to address real problems.
    As in his first term he's making things worse, if he just played golf for 4 years things would be better.
    Reverse virtue signaling is definitely a thing. It's probably more common than the original now.
    As someone who recently sat through a corporate briefing which was 10% climate change, 60% DEI, and 30% the work we are actually here for - I strongly dispute that. The public sector in Greater Manchester is very much doubling down on the virtue signalling.
    Well I defer on your precise environment obviously. And that's good to hear.

    But would you recognise the opposite equally well? I doubt it.
    A (leftish) friend of mine temporarily aquired an SUV, and said driving it made him want to go and sit outside the Unicorn Grocery Cooperative in Chorlton, revving it needlessly. Is that the sort of thing you're thinking of? But that was in jest and only funny because of that attitude's rarity.
    But I am urban middle class. Visible rightwingery is almost nonexistent.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,446
    edited February 7
    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Mango Man off on one about straws, now.

    Republican version of virtue signaling (Vice Signaling?).
    Saves having to address real problems.
    As in his first term he's making things worse, if he just played golf for 4 years things would be better.
    Reverse virtue signaling is definitely a thing. It's probably more common than the original now.
    Not yet I think. Definitely increasing, but in my experience there's just a tiny bit more subtlety about it. Which is not to say subtle, but not as in your face.

    Also, it's still just virtue signalling really, just of different virtues. Like snowflake behaviour it is something that can be found on left and right (in the overly performative sense - we all signal our values to some degree).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,446

    The new MRP poll shows how much of a threat Reform are to Labour:

    https://x.com/marwandata/status/1887872745100185763

    Reform UK would gain 147 seats off Labour and 19 off the Conservatives.

    The most astonishing thing is Lab's predicted near wipe out in Wales only retaining the 4 Cardiff seats and Blaenau Gwent

    I'll believe it when I see it and not before.

    Though Wales was the last holdout of UKIP.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,911

    Leon said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Is there a leadership election on?

    https://x.com/gbnews/status/1887863894493802632

    Furious residents of Britain's second biggest city tell @RobertJenrick they are sick of their areas being trashed while the clean up can take weeks.

    Fair play to Jenrick, he actually comes across as normal in that. Looks horrific, how can people live like this?
    The Conservatives crashed the car, they are now surveying the wreckage and asking "who crashed this car?"
    Yes of course. All Birmingham's many ills, including fly-tipping are entirely down to the Conservatives and nothing to do with the Labour run council who have been in control for the last 13 years.

    At some point, Labour and their supporters will have to take some responsibility. I understand it will be hard for you.
    I am not a particular fan of the Labour Party, although my criticism of the party in Government would be a different set to yours. However I do utterly despise the most recent iterations of the Conservative Party. Local Government including Conservative authorities were shafted hard by the Conservative Governments through the years of austerity and beyond. There is little sign this lot will be much better. But your pals broke local government. Own it!
    I don't need to own it. This isn't happening everywhere in the country, just certain parts. I don't walk around my local towns and see this. This is Birmingham, Labour controlled, 13 years now.

    As Taz said, there are numerous threads to the 'blame', albeit the obvious one is the people who are doing it. I can accept Conservative governments have a part to play too.

    Your kneejerk lazy reaction to entirely blame some fly-tipping on the Conservatives, who are neither in control of the council nor the country, is the expected reaction of someone who isn't willing to accept responsibility.

    It's going to be a tough journey for Labour supporters from carping and blaming on the sidelines to accepting responsibility. Especially with a potential self-inflicted recession, home grown inflation and increasing unemployment. Own it!
    Jenrick makes it all quite clear in that video, for anyone attuned
    Oh FFS - could you stop this 'if you were as smart as me crap'.
    If it upsets you just scroll past his posts, that's what I do. I find PB a far more amenable prospect for so doing.
    lol. You literally complain every time I start commenting

    Eg your reaction to my Chagos remarks: an endless whine
    Sorry! I can't respond because I skip over your posts.
    He is one titanic bore, isn't he. Dearie me he drones on.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,353

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    O/T I couldn't really care less whether Toolmakerson is middle class or working class (whatever either of those ridiculous labels mean). What I do care about is that he and his hopeless CoE are fucking up the economy because they do not understand the first thing about business. You can be from any background to understand business, and also from any background to be totally clueless, such as Keir From HR and Rachel From Customer Complaints.

    Is "Keir From HR" one that you yourself have coined, Nigel?
    I think it was sort of coined by one of his colleagues. Someone I assume who might not be asked to explain by BJO.
    Ah ok. I've not come across it.

    Anyway, question for you. Why have you become so irritated by his voice? You never used to be. What's going on there?
    I have been on a journey, shall I say. I was never a natural supporter of Labour, but as a believer in democracy I realise that we have to have exchanges of power, and the Tories, particularly under Johnson, had become terrible. I believe that Sunak was beginning to turn things around but it was too late.

    I was therefore relieved that Mr Thicky was out and to begin with I thought Starmer, who had a reasonably impressive backstory (albeit largely within the featherbedded public sector), would probably make a good PM. He has turned out to be shit. When the real test has come it is evident he is at best mediocre. Therefore his voice has become more and more boring, nasally and irritating, but most annoying of all is his complete lack of humility; an arrogance that is normally assumed by people such as yourself to be an uniquely Tory trait.
    Ok, thanks. That sounds sincere although I think you're being too harsh and too hasty. Anyway, we'll get another vote in 2029 and if I'm wrong and he doesn't turn out to be ok, perhaps better than ok, it'll just be the one term rather than two or three. Which will be a shame because somebody, anybody, needs a decade to have a significant and lasting positive impact on the country. You can trash things quickly (Johnson, Truss) but the opposite takes time.
    He has no plan and no clue. He is like Johnson without the bonhomie and charisma. An empty suit. And as for Rachel From Customer Complaints, the second most important office of state ffs. She is so shit she needed to lie on her CV. When you think about the gravity of what she is in charge of it is really shocking that we have to have someone so below mediocre in such a position. If it turns around it will be sheer luck. It is said that a chief executive's future is defined by his/her first few months in post. Keir From HR has been found out. He is shit and his CoE is even worse.
    Keir from HR does not really work. The trouble is, it looks like it is supposed to rhyme, but it doesn't.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,909
    Carnyx said:

    First, but definitely not in social class.

    On topic:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00hhrwl
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,081

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    O/T I couldn't really care less whether Toolmakerson is middle class or working class (whatever either of those ridiculous labels mean). What I do care about is that he and his hopeless CoE are fucking up the economy because they do not understand the first thing about business. You can be from any background to understand business, and also from any background to be totally clueless, such as Keir From HR and Rachel From Customer Complaints.

    Is "Keir From HR" one that you yourself have coined, Nigel?
    I think it was sort of coined by one of his colleagues. Someone I assume who might not be asked to explain by BJO.
    Ah ok. I've not come across it.

    Anyway, question for you. Why have you become so irritated by his voice? You never used to be. What's going on there?
    I have been on a journey, shall I say. I was never a natural supporter of Labour, but as a believer in democracy I realise that we have to have exchanges of power, and the Tories, particularly under Johnson, had become terrible. I believe that Sunak was beginning to turn things around but it was too late.

    I was therefore relieved that Mr Thicky was out and to begin with I thought Starmer, who had a reasonably impressive backstory (albeit largely within the featherbedded public sector), would probably make a good PM. He has turned out to be shit. When the real test has come it is evident he is at best mediocre. Therefore his voice has become more and more boring, nasally and irritating, but most annoying of all is his complete lack of humility; an arrogance that is normally assumed by people such as yourself to be an uniquely Tory trait.
    Ok, thanks. That sounds sincere although I think you're being too harsh and too hasty. Anyway, we'll get another vote in 2029 and if I'm wrong and he doesn't turn out to be ok, perhaps better than ok, it'll just be the one term rather than two or three. Which will be a shame because somebody, anybody, needs a decade to have a significant and lasting positive impact on the country. You can trash things quickly (Johnson, Truss) but the opposite takes time.
    He has no plan and no clue. He is like Johnson without the bonhomie and charisma. An empty suit. And as for Rachel From Customer Complaints, the second most important office of state ffs. She is so shit she needed to lie on her CV. When you think about the gravity of what she is in charge of it is really shocking that we have to have someone so below mediocre in such a position. If it turns around it will be sheer luck. It is said that a chief executive's future is defined by his/her first few months in post.
    Keir From HR has been found out. He is shit and his CoE is even worse.
    Keir from HR does not really work. The trouble is, it looks like it is supposed to rhyme, but it doesn't.
    It also doesn’t work because Keir is unlike any HR manager I’ve ever come across.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,446

    Carnyx said:
    Not sure that is Nimbyism

    They’ve assessed that the traffic, commercial, infrastructure and access needs outweigh the benefits of a larger playground
    There might be a little too much actual analysis involved for it to be proper NIMBYism. Proper NIMBYism can use the language of analysis but something always gives the game away and the mask slips.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,587

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    O/T I couldn't really care less whether Toolmakerson is middle class or working class (whatever either of those ridiculous labels mean). What I do care about is that he and his hopeless CoE are fucking up the economy because they do not understand the first thing about business. You can be from any background to understand business, and also from any background to be totally clueless, such as Keir From HR and Rachel From Customer Complaints.

    Is "Keir From HR" one that you yourself have coined, Nigel?
    I think it was sort of coined by one of his colleagues. Someone I assume who might not be asked to explain by BJO.
    Ah ok. I've not come across it.

    Anyway, question for you. Why have you become so irritated by his voice? You never used to be. What's going on there?
    I have been on a journey, shall I say. I was never a natural supporter of Labour, but as a believer in democracy I realise that we have to have exchanges of power, and the Tories, particularly under Johnson, had become terrible. I believe that Sunak was beginning to turn things around but it was too late.

    I was therefore relieved that Mr Thicky was out and to begin with I thought Starmer, who had a reasonably impressive backstory (albeit largely within the featherbedded public sector), would probably make a good PM. He has turned out to be shit. When the real test has come it is evident he is at best mediocre. Therefore his voice has become more and more boring, nasally and irritating, but most annoying of all is his complete lack of humility; an arrogance that is normally assumed by people such as yourself to be an uniquely Tory trait.
    Ok, thanks. That sounds sincere although I think you're being too harsh and too hasty. Anyway, we'll get another vote in 2029 and if I'm wrong and he doesn't turn out to be ok, perhaps better than ok, it'll just be the one term rather than two or three. Which will be a shame because somebody, anybody, needs a decade to have a significant and lasting positive impact on the country. You can trash things quickly (Johnson, Truss) but the opposite takes time.
    He has no plan and no clue. He is like Johnson without the bonhomie and charisma. An empty suit. And as for Rachel From Customer Complaints, the second most important office of state ffs. She is so shit she needed to lie on her CV. When you think about the gravity of what she is in charge of it is really shocking that we have to have someone so below mediocre in such a position. If it turns around it will be sheer luck. It is said that a chief executive's future is defined by his/her first few months in post. Keir From HR has been found out. He is shit and his CoE is even worse.
    Keir from HR does not really work. The trouble is, it looks like it is supposed to rhyme, but it doesn't.
    He’s more like Keir from Compliance anyway.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,446
    TimS said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    O/T I couldn't really care less whether Toolmakerson is middle class or working class (whatever either of those ridiculous labels mean). What I do care about is that he and his hopeless CoE are fucking up the economy because they do not understand the first thing about business. You can be from any background to understand business, and also from any background to be totally clueless, such as Keir From HR and Rachel From Customer Complaints.

    Is "Keir From HR" one that you yourself have coined, Nigel?
    I think it was sort of coined by one of his colleagues. Someone I assume who might not be asked to explain by BJO.
    Ah ok. I've not come across it.

    Anyway, question for you. Why have you become so irritated by his voice? You never used to be. What's going on there?
    I have been on a journey, shall I say. I was never a natural supporter of Labour, but as a believer in democracy I realise that we have to have exchanges of power, and the Tories, particularly under Johnson, had become terrible. I believe that Sunak was beginning to turn things around but it was too late.

    I was therefore relieved that Mr Thicky was out and to begin with I thought Starmer, who had a reasonably impressive backstory (albeit largely within the featherbedded public sector), would probably make a good PM. He has turned out to be shit. When the real test has come it is evident he is at best mediocre. Therefore his voice has become more and more boring, nasally and irritating, but most annoying of all is his complete lack of humility; an arrogance that is normally assumed by people such as yourself to be an uniquely Tory trait.
    Ok, thanks. That sounds sincere although I think you're being too harsh and too hasty. Anyway, we'll get another vote in 2029 and if I'm wrong and he doesn't turn out to be ok, perhaps better than ok, it'll just be the one term rather than two or three. Which will be a shame because somebody, anybody, needs a decade to have a significant and lasting positive impact on the country. You can trash things quickly (Johnson, Truss) but the opposite takes time.
    He has no plan and no clue. He is like Johnson without the bonhomie and charisma. An empty suit. And as for Rachel From Customer Complaints, the second most important office of state ffs. She is so shit she needed to lie on her CV. When you think about the gravity of what she is in charge of it is really shocking that we have to have someone so below mediocre in such a position. If it turns around it will be sheer luck. It is said that a chief executive's future is defined by his/her first few months in post.
    Keir From HR has been found out. He is shit and his CoE is even worse.
    Keir from HR does not really work. The trouble is, it looks like it is supposed to rhyme, but it doesn't.
    It also doesn’t work because Keir is unlike any HR manager I’ve ever come across.
    He seems more like a cautious bureucratic lawyer, funnily enough.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,911
    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Mango Man off on one about straws, now.

    Republican version of virtue signaling (Vice Signaling?).
    Saves having to address real problems.
    As in his first term he's making things worse, if he just played golf for 4 years things would be better.
    Reverse virtue signaling is definitely a thing. It's probably more common than the original now.
    Not yet I think. Definitely increasing, but in my experience there's just a tiny bit more subtlety about it. Which is not to say subtle, but not as in your face.

    Also, it's still just virtue signalling really, just of different virtues. Like snowflake behaviour it is something that can be found on left and right (in the overly performative sense - we all signal our values to some degree).
    The Trump win has altered the balance. The anti-wokies are pumped up to their eyeballs now.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,123

    Ever since my forebears left the banks of the Danube for Wales in 1000BC we haven't been able to understand the British class system.

    Given that they travelled through Switzerland France and England en route you might question their judgement…
    They settled in England until you Anglo Saxons sent them packing to Wales around 700 BC.
    Think you're about 1400 years out there
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,446
    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Mango Man off on one about straws, now.

    Republican version of virtue signaling (Vice Signaling?).
    Saves having to address real problems.
    As in his first term he's making things worse, if he just played golf for 4 years things would be better.
    Reverse virtue signaling is definitely a thing. It's probably more common than the original now.
    Not yet I think. Definitely increasing, but in my experience there's just a tiny bit more subtlety about it. Which is not to say subtle, but not as in your face.

    Also, it's still just virtue signalling really, just of different virtues. Like snowflake behaviour it is something that can be found on left and right (in the overly performative sense - we all signal our values to some degree).
    The Trump win has altered the balance. The anti-wokies are pumped up to their eyeballs now.
    My main Trump acquaintence is giddy as they come, got some real swagger going.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,613

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes I agree, voters have elected toffs like Cameron, upper middle class lawyers like Blair, lower middle glass grocers daughters like Thatcher and working class sons of trapeze artists and tool makers and builders like Major and Starmer and Heath. They will elect based on a PM's record. Though the correct answer is Starmer is middle class now with a working class upbringing.

    All PMs have been middle class effectively though, though we have had working class Deputy PMs like Prescott and Rayner.

    While Cameron was borderline upper class we haven't had a genuine upper class peer of the realm as PM since Douglas Home, who was Earl of Home for 2 years before giving up his title and leaving the Lords to enter the Commons again as PM, you can only be upper class by birth or arguably marriage. Once the last remaining hereditary peers leave parliament there will be almost no upper class members of the Houses of Parliament left, except a handful of life peer appointed hereditaries like Viscount Thurso (who also managed to win a Commons seat once the ban on peers becoming MPs was lifted)

    MacDonald was definitely working class when Labour formed their first government in 1924. Less so when he formed the National one in 1931. Perhaps Callaghan too, although there's an argument he was lower-middle class by the time he was elected an MP.
    I read Callaghan's biography as part of the "20 Prime Ministers of the 20th Century series". Irish father, English mother, Dad died when he was nine leaving him and his Mum in near-poverty, Callaghan joined the Civil Service, became a Baptist Sunday School teacher, union official, joined the RN, served in the Far East in wartime, became a MP, worked his way up...all the way up. You don't get politicians like that these days. Now it's all PPE grads and [badwords]
    Angela Rayner would presumably disagree.

    But overall, yes, big reduction in working-class background MPs. Partly reducing social mobility, partly the changing nature of the union movement.
    As well as Major and Rayner, Prescott, Alan Johnson and David Davis also came up from pretty much nothing to the top ranks of their parties and Westminster of recent top rank politicians.

    Though as you say on the Labour side via the unions which have declined in influence and on the Tory side via Thatcherite meritocracy while CCHQ now is rather keener on conformist centrist candidates (the Thatcherite up by their bootstraps types are largely now in Reform)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,587
    For those who the Musk is just going after politically easy targets:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1887723221610283458

    American weapons programs need to be completely redone.

    The current strategy is to build a small number of weapons at a high price to fight yesterday’s war.

    Unless there are immediate and dramatic changes made, America will lose the next war very badly.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999
    CatMan said:

    Ever since my forebears left the banks of the Danube for Wales in 1000BC we haven't been able to understand the British class system.

    Given that they travelled through Switzerland France and England en route you might question their judgement…
    They settled in England until you Anglo Saxons sent them packing to Wales around 700 BC.
    Think you're about 1400 years out there
    We were latecomers.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,613
    edited February 7

    Has @HYUFD seen the latest polling from Northern Ireland?

    Under 50% support for the Union with Britain, only 20% of Northern Protestants would find a victory for Irish Unity in a border poll "almost impossible to accept".

    https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2025/02/07/support-for-irish-unification-grows-but-unity-vote-would-be-soundly-defeated-in-north-poll-shows/

    Just 34% support for a United Ireland in Northern Ireland though on that poll. Only 7% of Protestants in favour while 18% of Roman Catholics want to stay in the UK
  • kle4 said:

    The new MRP poll shows how much of a threat Reform are to Labour:

    https://x.com/marwandata/status/1887872745100185763

    Reform UK would gain 147 seats off Labour and 19 off the Conservatives.

    The most astonishing thing is Lab's predicted near wipe out in Wales only retaining the 4 Cardiff seats and Blaenau Gwent

    I'll believe it when I see it and not before.

    Though Wales was the last holdout of UKIP.
    I can believe it to an extent. Lab had a fairly bad GE in Wales losing 4% percentage points but gaining seats due to Con-Ref swing

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Wales

    Memories of Thatcher mean the Valleys won't vote Conservative, but Labour have been running the Senedd for 25 years now and it's hard to see what has got better. Reform are also clear second in many of these seats now
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,911
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Mango Man off on one about straws, now.

    Republican version of virtue signaling (Vice Signaling?).
    Saves having to address real problems.
    As in his first term he's making things worse, if he just played golf for 4 years things would be better.
    Reverse virtue signaling is definitely a thing. It's probably more common than the original now.
    As someone who recently sat through a corporate briefing which was 10% climate change, 60% DEI, and 30% the work we are actually here for - I strongly dispute that. The public sector in Greater Manchester is very much doubling down on the virtue signalling.
    Well I defer on your precise environment obviously. And that's good to hear.

    But would you recognise the opposite equally well? I doubt it.
    A (leftish) friend of mine temporarily aquired an SUV, and said driving it made him want to go and sit outside the Unicorn Grocery Cooperative in Chorlton, revving it needlessly. Is that the sort of thing you're thinking of? But that was in jest and only funny because of that attitude's rarity.
    But I am urban middle class. Visible rightwingery is almost nonexistent.
    Ah no, he was being sardonic.

    I'm thinking more of that "risque" comment that pre Trump would have been swallowed but now finds its way out there into the world.

    "I'm so colourful and interesting, me. I say what I think without even bothering thinking. Or maybe I'm just kidding lol".

    Lots more of this in your office, I bet. You're probably not picking it up because you're not looking for it. Whereas I am. All the time.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,613
    edited February 7

    kle4 said:

    The new MRP poll shows how much of a threat Reform are to Labour:

    https://x.com/marwandata/status/1887872745100185763

    Reform UK would gain 147 seats off Labour and 19 off the Conservatives.

    The most astonishing thing is Lab's predicted near wipe out in Wales only retaining the 4 Cardiff seats and Blaenau Gwent

    I'll believe it when I see it and not before.

    Though Wales was the last holdout of UKIP.
    I can believe it to an extent. Lab had a fairly bad GE in Wales losing 4% percentage points but gaining seats due to Con-Ref swing

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Wales

    Memories of Thatcher mean the Valleys won't vote Conservative, but Labour have been running the Senedd for 25 years now and it's hard to see what has got better. Reform are also clear second in many of these seats now
    If you are from a working class mining family that still hates Thatcher but can't stand Ed Miliband's opposition to coal mines then Reform are a viable option. Trump and Le Pen won plenty of coal miner and sons of coal miners votes
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,909

    Ever since my forebears left the banks of the Danube for Wales in 1000BC we haven't been able to understand the British class system.

    Given that they travelled through Switzerland France and England en route you might question their judgement…
    They settled in England until you Anglo Saxons sent them packing to Wales around 700 BC.
    700AD
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,554
    I see that I share a birthday with @Omnium.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,641

    The new MRP poll shows how much of a threat Reform are to Labour:

    https://x.com/marwandata/status/1887872745100185763

    Reform UK would gain 147 seats off Labour and 19 off the Conservatives.

    You can see individual seat predictions here:

    https://plmr.co.uk/theroadto2029/

    The most astonishing thing is Lab's predicted near wipe out in Wales only retaining the 4 Cardiff seats and Blaenau Gwent

    Con 178, Ref 175, Lab 174 - would likely mean an Irish style rotating PM arrangement between Con and Ref
    Any chance of that happening at the next Welsh election?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,607
    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    TimS said:

    Good evening from my holiday cottage at the far North Western tip of Assynt.



    From the hill here I can see Lewis, the whole of Assynt and its inselbergs, the coast of Wester Ross and all the way to Skye.

    Magnificent.
    You have been very lucky with the weather. The night sky will be brilliant.
    The owner of this place is a fellow of the royal astronomical society and is holding an astronomy club evening tonight in her actual, hut-sized observatory with a massive telescope in the garden. She just popped round to say we’re welcome to come and take a look later.
    I think I may have walked past, or very near to, that place. It's a wonderful area.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,353

    For those who the Musk is just going after politically easy targets:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1887723221610283458

    American weapons programs need to be completely redone.

    The current strategy is to build a small number of weapons at a high price to fight yesterday’s war.

    Unless there are immediate and dramatic changes made, America will lose the next war very badly.

    Elon is right. Although there is a word for countries that put their faith in sheer quantities of cheap, rugged kit – we call them Russia.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,216
    Cult latest...


    Elon Musk

    @elonmusk
    ·
    3h

    I love @realDonaldTrump as much as a straight man can love another man
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,436
    Foss said:

    Leon said:

    I clearly have this gene. Suspect a couple of my fellow PBers also have it


    3/ ADHD & The Wanderlust Gene

    The DRD4 7R allele is associated with higher impulsivity, risk-taking, and exploration-traits once adaptive in a nomadic lifestyle.

    - Among the Ariaal people of Kenya, DRD4 carriers had better nutrition as nomads.

    - But when they settled, this advantage disappeared!

    This suggests ADHD-linked traits may have been useful for exploration but not for sedentary living

    https://x.com/sanilrege/status/1887753253070504267?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Question is: how did our forefathers endure the boredom as peasant farmhands and tin miners? Must have been excruciating

    Boredom is a privilege of the reasonably fed and reasonably pain free.
    I don’t believe that, unfortunately. I kinda wish I did
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,173
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    The new MRP poll shows how much of a threat Reform are to Labour:

    https://x.com/marwandata/status/1887872745100185763

    Reform UK would gain 147 seats off Labour and 19 off the Conservatives.

    The most astonishing thing is Lab's predicted near wipe out in Wales only retaining the 4 Cardiff seats and Blaenau Gwent

    I'll believe it when I see it and not before.

    Though Wales was the last holdout of UKIP.
    I can believe it to an extent. Lab had a fairly bad GE in Wales losing 4% percentage points but gaining seats due to Con-Ref swing

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Wales

    Memories of Thatcher mean the Valleys won't vote Conservative, but Labour have been running the Senedd for 25 years now and it's hard to see what has got better. Reform are also clear second in many of these seats now
    If you are from a working class mining family that still hates Thatcher but can't stand Ed Miliband's opposition to coal mines then Reform are a viable option. Trump and Le Pen won plenty of coal miner and sons of coal miners votes
    The mines are ancient history. Poverty isn't.

    Welsh Labour has been in power for a very long time, during which improvements in the lives of its core support have been limited at best. Much of this can be and has been pinned on the Tories at Westminster, but they're now out of power and patience with their Labour replacements is in exceedingly short supply.

    If Reform can avoid self-combustion for long enough then it ought to do well in the Senedd elections. If that, in turn, forces Labour and Plaid into coalition then the argument that they're all the same, which was previously deployed very effectively in different circumstances in Scotland ("Tweedledum, Tweedledee and the Tweedledems" was how Alex Salmond once put it) gets fresh legs.

    The Tories, meanwhile, are liable to be relegated to minor party status and forgotten.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,216

    For those who the Musk is just going after politically easy targets:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1887723221610283458

    American weapons programs need to be completely redone.

    The current strategy is to build a small number of weapons at a high price to fight yesterday’s war.

    Unless there are immediate and dramatic changes made, America will lose the next war very badly.

    Elon is right. Although there is a word for countries that put their faith in sheer quantities of cheap, rugged kit – we call them Russia.
    "the next war"??

    Does he mean when Canada whip their invasion arses in 2026?
  • glwglw Posts: 10,169

    For those who the Musk is just going after politically easy targets:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1887723221610283458

    American weapons programs need to be completely redone.

    The current strategy is to build a small number of weapons at a high price to fight yesterday’s war.

    Unless there are immediate and dramatic changes made, America will lose the next war very badly.

    A couple of days ago I was going to post that "Musk is at least smart enough to avoid conflict with the DOD/MIC" but it seems that I was mistaken. I hope they beat the crap out of him with their lawyers, lobbyists, and friendly congressmen.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,911
    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Mango Man off on one about straws, now.

    Republican version of virtue signaling (Vice Signaling?).
    Saves having to address real problems.
    As in his first term he's making things worse, if he just played golf for 4 years things would be better.
    Reverse virtue signaling is definitely a thing. It's probably more common than the original now.
    Not yet I think. Definitely increasing, but in my experience there's just a tiny bit more subtlety about it. Which is not to say subtle, but not as in your face.

    Also, it's still just virtue signalling really, just of different virtues. Like snowflake behaviour it is something that can be found on left and right (in the overly performative sense - we all signal our values to some degree).
    The Trump win has altered the balance. The anti-wokies are pumped up to their eyeballs now.
    My main Trump acquaintence is giddy as they come, got some real swagger going.
    My heartfelt sympathies. I know how bad it can be right now.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,066
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    The new MRP poll shows how much of a threat Reform are to Labour:

    https://x.com/marwandata/status/1887872745100185763

    Reform UK would gain 147 seats off Labour and 19 off the Conservatives.

    The most astonishing thing is Lab's predicted near wipe out in Wales only retaining the 4 Cardiff seats and Blaenau Gwent

    I'll believe it when I see it and not before.

    Though Wales was the last holdout of UKIP.
    I can believe it to an extent. Lab had a fairly bad GE in Wales losing 4% percentage points but gaining seats due to Con-Ref swing

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Wales

    Memories of Thatcher mean the Valleys won't vote Conservative, but Labour have been running the Senedd for 25 years now and it's hard to see what has got better. Reform are also clear second in many of these seats now
    If you are from a working class mining family that still hates Thatcher but can't stand Ed Miliband's opposition to coal mines then Reform are a viable option. Trump and Le Pen won plenty of coal miner and sons of coal miners votes
    Yes, look how all the ex-mining areas were rock-solid for Labour, before gradually drifting away. That actually resulted in brilliant voting efficiency last year, but it also makes such seats very vulnerable to Reform.

    Labour’s strongholds remain London, university constituencies, and Merseyside. Reform seem to be breaking into Greater Manchester, but not Greater Liverpool.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,436
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Is there a leadership election on?

    https://x.com/gbnews/status/1887863894493802632

    Furious residents of Britain's second biggest city tell @RobertJenrick they are sick of their areas being trashed while the clean up can take weeks.

    Fair play to Jenrick, he actually comes across as normal in that. Looks horrific, how can people live like this?
    The Conservatives crashed the car, they are now surveying the wreckage and asking "who crashed this car?"
    Yes of course. All Birmingham's many ills, including fly-tipping are entirely down to the Conservatives and nothing to do with the Labour run council who have been in control for the last 13 years.

    At some point, Labour and their supporters will have to take some responsibility. I understand it will be hard for you.
    I am not a particular fan of the Labour Party, although my criticism of the party in Government would be a different set to yours. However I do utterly despise the most recent iterations of the Conservative Party. Local Government including Conservative authorities were shafted hard by the Conservative Governments through the years of austerity and beyond. There is little sign this lot will be much better. But your pals broke local government. Own it!
    I don't need to own it. This isn't happening everywhere in the country, just certain parts. I don't walk around my local towns and see this. This is Birmingham, Labour controlled, 13 years now.

    As Taz said, there are numerous threads to the 'blame', albeit the obvious one is the people who are doing it. I can accept Conservative governments have a part to play too.

    Your kneejerk lazy reaction to entirely blame some fly-tipping on the Conservatives, who are neither in control of the council nor the country, is the expected reaction of someone who isn't willing to accept responsibility.

    It's going to be a tough journey for Labour supporters from carping and blaming on the sidelines to accepting responsibility. Especially with a potential self-inflicted recession, home grown inflation and increasing unemployment. Own it!
    Jenrick makes it all quite clear in that video, for anyone attuned
    Oh FFS - could you stop this 'if you were as smart as me crap'.
    If it upsets you just scroll past his posts, that's what I do. I find PB a far more amenable prospect for so doing.
    lol. You literally complain every time I start commenting

    Eg your reaction to my Chagos remarks: an endless whine
    Sorry! I can't respond because I skip over your posts.
    He is one titanic bore, isn't he. Dearie me he drones on.
    Ah, if only that were true, then you’d find it easy to ignore me. But you don’t, do you? Quite the opposite

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,613
    edited February 7
    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    The new MRP poll shows how much of a threat Reform are to Labour:

    https://x.com/marwandata/status/1887872745100185763

    Reform UK would gain 147 seats off Labour and 19 off the Conservatives.

    The most astonishing thing is Lab's predicted near wipe out in Wales only retaining the 4 Cardiff seats and Blaenau Gwent

    I'll believe it when I see it and not before.

    Though Wales was the last holdout of UKIP.
    I can believe it to an extent. Lab had a fairly bad GE in Wales losing 4% percentage points but gaining seats due to Con-Ref swing

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Wales

    Memories of Thatcher mean the Valleys won't vote Conservative, but Labour have been running the Senedd for 25 years now and it's hard to see what has got better. Reform are also clear second in many of these seats now
    If you are from a working class mining family that still hates Thatcher but can't stand Ed Miliband's opposition to coal mines then Reform are a viable option. Trump and Le Pen won plenty of coal miner and sons of coal miners votes
    The mines are ancient history. Poverty isn't.

    Welsh Labour has been in power for a very long time, during which improvements in the lives of its core support have been limited at best. Much of this can be and has been pinned on the Tories at Westminster, but they're now out of power and patience with their Labour replacements is in exceedingly short supply.

    If Reform can avoid self-combustion for long enough then it ought to do well in the Senedd elections. If that, in turn, forces Labour and Plaid into coalition then the argument that they're all the same, which was previously deployed very effectively in different circumstances in Scotland ("Tweedledum, Tweedledee and the Tweedledems" was how Alex Salmond once put it) gets fresh legs.

    The Tories, meanwhile, are liable to be relegated to minor party status and forgotten.
    There are still some working coal mines today, even in Wales

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberpergwm.

    Reform's dream scenario is for a Labour and Plaid government in Wales and an SNP and Labour government in Scotland next year followed by a Labour and LD government across the UK at the next GE (if they can't win a majority next time).

    They could then really squeeze the white working class vote as the main opposition in every part of the UK and still remain fresher and newer than the Tories still recovering in opposition after 14 years in government UK wide for middle class Leave voters.

    If Farage wins the white working class vote and the middle class Leave vote he can then win a majority UK wide (provided we don't switch to PR) and become largest party in Wales and probably become the main opposition to the SNP in Scotland too
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,169
    Leon said:

    I clearly have this gene. Suspect a couple of my fellow PBers also have it


    3/ ADHD & The Wanderlust Gene

    The DRD4 7R allele is associated with higher impulsivity, risk-taking, and exploration-traits once adaptive in a nomadic lifestyle.

    - Among the Ariaal people of Kenya, DRD4 carriers had better nutrition as nomads.

    - But when they settled, this advantage disappeared!

    This suggests ADHD-linked traits may have been useful for exploration but not for sedentary living

    https://x.com/sanilrege/status/1887753253070504267?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Question is: how did our forefathers endure the boredom as peasant farmhands and tin miners? Must have been excruciating

    ADHD shortens life expectancy quite noticeably: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2025/02/adhd-shortened-life-expectancy/681554/

    Though one of the more effective non-pharmacological treatments is spending time in nature and becoming attuned to the natural rhythms of life.

    Another effective treatment is good social connections and joint endeavour in tasks, so it may well be that our peasant ancestors coped far better than the modern smartphone/teminally online world.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,607
    Cyclefree said:

    I see that I share a birthday with @Omnium.

    I share a birthday with PB.

    And with Covid lockdowns... :(
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,353

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    O/T I couldn't really care less whether Toolmakerson is middle class or working class (whatever either of those ridiculous labels mean). What I do care about is that he and his hopeless CoE are fucking up the economy because they do not understand the first thing about business. You can be from any background to understand business, and also from any background to be totally clueless, such as Keir From HR and Rachel From Customer Complaints.

    Is "Keir From HR" one that you yourself have coined, Nigel?
    I think it was sort of coined by one of his colleagues. Someone I assume who might not be asked to explain by BJO.
    Ah ok. I've not come across it.

    Anyway, question for you. Why have you become so irritated by his voice? You never used to be. What's going on there?
    I have been on a journey, shall I say. I was never a natural supporter of Labour, but as a believer in democracy I realise that we have to have exchanges of power, and the Tories, particularly under Johnson, had become terrible. I believe that Sunak was beginning to turn things around but it was too late.

    I was therefore relieved that Mr Thicky was out and to begin with I thought Starmer, who had a reasonably impressive backstory (albeit largely within the featherbedded public sector), would probably make a good PM. He has turned out to be shit. When the real test has come it is evident he is at best mediocre. Therefore his voice has become more and more boring, nasally and irritating, but most annoying of all is his complete lack of humility; an arrogance that is normally assumed by people such as yourself to be an uniquely Tory trait.
    Ok, thanks. That sounds sincere although I think you're being too harsh and too hasty. Anyway, we'll get another vote in 2029 and if I'm wrong and he doesn't turn out to be ok, perhaps better than ok, it'll just be the one term rather than two or three. Which will be a shame because somebody, anybody, needs a decade to have a significant and lasting positive impact on the country. You can trash things quickly (Johnson, Truss) but the opposite takes time.
    He has no plan and no clue. He is like Johnson without the bonhomie and charisma. An empty suit. And as for Rachel From Customer Complaints, the second most important office of state ffs. She is so shit she needed to lie on her CV. When you think about the gravity of what she is in charge of it is really shocking that we have to have someone so below mediocre in such a position. If it turns around it will be sheer luck. It is said that a chief executive's future is defined by his/her first few months in post. Keir From HR has been found out. He is shit and his CoE is even worse.
    Keir from HR does not really work. The trouble is, it looks like it is supposed to rhyme, but it doesn't.
    He’s more like Keir from Compliance anyway.
    That nicely combines Starmer's mastery of the rulebook with a touch of alliteration.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,103

    For those who the Musk is just going after politically easy targets:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1887723221610283458

    American weapons programs need to be completely redone.

    The current strategy is to build a small number of weapons at a high price to fight yesterday’s war.

    Unless there are immediate and dramatic changes made, America will lose the next war very badly.

    Elon is right. Although there is a word for countries that put their faith in sheer quantities of cheap, rugged kit – we call them Russia.
    Ukraine, apparently with a decent amount of British collaboration, is showing how it's done. Rapidly iterated designs with feedback from the battlefield on what is needed, and then scaling production. Lots of different independent companies and organisations working on similar problems so that a bureaucratic bottleneck can't prevent development.

    I think there's a degree to which some of this is only possible during wartime, but in peacetime we could do more to ensure that we have the range of capabilities that we'd need.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,169

    CatMan said:

    Ever since my forebears left the banks of the Danube for Wales in 1000BC we haven't been able to understand the British class system.

    Given that they travelled through Switzerland France and England en route you might question their judgement…
    They settled in England until you Anglo Saxons sent them packing to Wales around 700 BC.
    Think you're about 1400 years out there
    We were latecomers.
    There is no England, only occupied Wales.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,358
    One for TSE and RCS

    "Because the wording of the law offers an exemption with regard to "posting comments or reviews relating to provider content" (eg, comments about bikes posted to a bike blog) and specifically says that user-generated content is not provider content, Brown believes individuals running websites could be held accountable for posts by third-parties that are unrelated (off-topic) to the content on that site"

    source https://www.theregister.com/2025/02/06/uk_online_safety_act_bloggers/?td=rt-3a
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,117
    Cyclefree said:

    I see that I share a birthday with @Omnium.

    Many happy returns to you both.
  • I'm inventing a dish

    I'm going to use entire leeks, hollowed out and stuffed with other food. Probably chicken and bacon in a fresh herb, cheese and cream sauce

    I'm going to call it the Whole Leek Wrap
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,173

    For those who the Musk is just going after politically easy targets:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1887723221610283458

    American weapons programs need to be completely redone.

    The current strategy is to build a small number of weapons at a high price to fight yesterday’s war.

    Unless there are immediate and dramatic changes made, America will lose the next war very badly.

    Elon is right. Although there is a word for countries that put their faith in sheer quantities of cheap, rugged kit – we call them Russia.
    I'm assuming that Musk is more interested in drones than basic infantry cannon fodder. Putin can afford to fight to the last Kalmyk; even allowing for the cult following and the autocratic tendencies, Trump would find it harder work to justify forcing every man between the ages of 18 and 50 in Idaho to pick up a rusty rifle, and try to defeat a smaller but smarter opponent using weight of numbers in a series of mass casualty attacks.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,436
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    I clearly have this gene. Suspect a couple of my fellow PBers also have it


    3/ ADHD & The Wanderlust Gene

    The DRD4 7R allele is associated with higher impulsivity, risk-taking, and exploration-traits once adaptive in a nomadic lifestyle.

    - Among the Ariaal people of Kenya, DRD4 carriers had better nutrition as nomads.

    - But when they settled, this advantage disappeared!

    This suggests ADHD-linked traits may have been useful for exploration but not for sedentary living

    https://x.com/sanilrege/status/1887753253070504267?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Question is: how did our forefathers endure the boredom as peasant farmhands and tin miners? Must have been excruciating

    ADHD shortens life expectancy quite noticeably: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2025/02/adhd-shortened-life-expectancy/681554/

    Though one of the more effective non-pharmacological treatments is spending time in nature and becoming attuned to the natural rhythms of life.

    Another effective treatment is good social connections and joint endeavour in tasks, so it may well be that our peasant ancestors coped far better than the modern smartphone/teminally online world.

    Life expectancy for men in west Cornwall at the peak of the mining boom - 1750-1850, very roughly - was about 28
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,117
    glw said:

    For those who the Musk is just going after politically easy targets:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1887723221610283458

    American weapons programs need to be completely redone.

    The current strategy is to build a small number of weapons at a high price to fight yesterday’s war.

    Unless there are immediate and dramatic changes made, America will lose the next war very badly.

    A couple of days ago I was going to post that "Musk is at least smart enough to avoid conflict with the DOD/MIC" but it seems that I was mistaken. I hope they beat the crap out of him with their lawyers, lobbyists, and friendly congressmen.
    It's one area Musk has direct experience himself, being one of the defence contractors.

    Huge and obvious conflict of interest, and no legal standing to intervene, of course.
    As with many of his actions in the last week or so.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,220
    edited February 7

    For those who the Musk is just going after politically easy targets:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1887723221610283458

    American weapons programs need to be completely redone.

    The current strategy is to build a small number of weapons at a high price to fight yesterday’s war.

    Unless there are immediate and dramatic changes made, America will lose the next war very badly.

    He said the same thing in a speech last November - replace F-35s with Drones.

    There's a commentary from one of the generals, or possibly RUSI, somewhere.

    He's talking out of his Rs, as per usual. I think most here are quite aware of that.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,909

    For those who the Musk is just going after politically easy targets:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1887723221610283458

    American weapons programs need to be completely redone.

    The current strategy is to build a small number of weapons at a high price to fight yesterday’s war.

    Unless there are immediate and dramatic changes made, America will lose the next war very badly.

    Elon is right. Although there is a word for countries that put their faith in sheer quantities of cheap, rugged kit – we call them Russia.
    "the next war"??

    Does he mean when Canada whip their invasion arses in 2026?
    "Please! I like America Canada!"
  • glwglw Posts: 10,169
    Nigelb said:

    glw said:

    For those who the Musk is just going after politically easy targets:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1887723221610283458

    American weapons programs need to be completely redone.

    The current strategy is to build a small number of weapons at a high price to fight yesterday’s war.

    Unless there are immediate and dramatic changes made, America will lose the next war very badly.

    A couple of days ago I was going to post that "Musk is at least smart enough to avoid conflict with the DOD/MIC" but it seems that I was mistaken. I hope they beat the crap out of him with their lawyers, lobbyists, and friendly congressmen.
    It's one area Musk has direct experience himself, being one of the defence contractors.

    Huge and obvious conflict of interest, and no legal standing to intervene, of course.
    As with many of his actions in the last week or so.
    Yes he has experience, but it's the one area where the pushback is most likely to be effective.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,220
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    The new MRP poll shows how much of a threat Reform are to Labour:

    https://x.com/marwandata/status/1887872745100185763

    Reform UK would gain 147 seats off Labour and 19 off the Conservatives.

    The most astonishing thing is Lab's predicted near wipe out in Wales only retaining the 4 Cardiff seats and Blaenau Gwent

    I'll believe it when I see it and not before.

    Though Wales was the last holdout of UKIP.
    I can believe it to an extent. Lab had a fairly bad GE in Wales losing 4% percentage points but gaining seats due to Con-Ref swing

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Wales

    Memories of Thatcher mean the Valleys won't vote Conservative, but Labour have been running the Senedd for 25 years now and it's hard to see what has got better. Reform are also clear second in many of these seats now
    If you are from a working class mining family that still hates Thatcher but can't stand Ed Miliband's opposition to coal mines then Reform are a viable option. Trump and Le Pen won plenty of coal miner and sons of coal miners votes
    That's quite an interesting thought.

    Having listened to a couple of 40 minute interviews with Reform Millionaires in the last 48 hours, they are parading themselves along the catwalk as the biggest "Thatcherite".

    I wonder how that will play with the great unwashed?

    (I suspect they are relying on the great Reform unwashed not paying any attention because they are fulminating about Muslims.)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,909
    Cyclefree said:

    I see that I share a birthday with @Omnium.

    Happy Birthday to @Cyclefree and @Omnium !
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,538
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    The new MRP poll shows how much of a threat Reform are to Labour:

    https://x.com/marwandata/status/1887872745100185763

    Reform UK would gain 147 seats off Labour and 19 off the Conservatives.

    The most astonishing thing is Lab's predicted near wipe out in Wales only retaining the 4 Cardiff seats and Blaenau Gwent

    I'll believe it when I see it and not before.

    Though Wales was the last holdout of UKIP.
    I can believe it to an extent. Lab had a fairly bad GE in Wales losing 4% percentage points but gaining seats due to Con-Ref swing

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Wales

    Memories of Thatcher mean the Valleys won't vote Conservative, but Labour have been running the Senedd for 25 years now and it's hard to see what has got better. Reform are also clear second in many of these seats now
    If you are from a working class mining family that still hates Thatcher but can't stand Ed Miliband's opposition to coal mines then Reform are a viable option. Trump and Le Pen won plenty of coal miner and sons of coal miners votes
    Yes, look how all the ex-mining areas were rock-solid for Labour, before gradually drifting away. That actually resulted in brilliant voting efficiency last year, but it also makes such seats very vulnerable to Reform.

    Labour’s strongholds remain London, university constituencies, and Merseyside. Reform seem to be breaking into Greater Manchester, but not Greater Liverpool.
    I'm not sure that's quite the case.

    In that FindOutNow poll, both the NW and NE were stronger than for Labour than London. Reform are pretty consistent (with the exception of London, Wales and Scotland), while the Conservatives do best in the Shires around London.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,169
    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    The new MRP poll shows how much of a threat Reform are to Labour:

    https://x.com/marwandata/status/1887872745100185763

    Reform UK would gain 147 seats off Labour and 19 off the Conservatives.

    The most astonishing thing is Lab's predicted near wipe out in Wales only retaining the 4 Cardiff seats and Blaenau Gwent

    I'll believe it when I see it and not before.

    Though Wales was the last holdout of UKIP.
    I can believe it to an extent. Lab had a fairly bad GE in Wales losing 4% percentage points but gaining seats due to Con-Ref swing

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Wales

    Memories of Thatcher mean the Valleys won't vote Conservative, but Labour have been running the Senedd for 25 years now and it's hard to see what has got better. Reform are also clear second in many of these seats now
    If you are from a working class mining family that still hates Thatcher but can't stand Ed Miliband's opposition to coal mines then Reform are a viable option. Trump and Le Pen won plenty of coal miner and sons of coal miners votes
    That's quite an interesting thought.

    Having listened to a couple of 40 minute interviews with Reform Millionaires in the last 48 hours, they are parading themselves along the catwalk as the biggest "Thatcherite".

    I wonder how that will play with the great unwashed?

    (I suspect they are relying on the great Reform unwashed not paying any attention because they are fulminating about Muslims.)
    The disconnect between the leadership of Reform and the voters on everything apart from being beastly to foreigners, must become problematic at some point.

    Hopefully before rather than after the GE.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,220
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Mango Man off on one about straws, now.

    Republican version of virtue signaling (Vice Signaling?).
    Saves having to address real problems.
    As in his first term he's making things worse, if he just played golf for 4 years things would be better.
    Reverse virtue signaling is definitely a thing. It's probably more common than the original now.
    As someone who recently sat through a corporate briefing which was 10% climate change, 60% DEI, and 30% the work we are actually here for - I strongly dispute that. The public sector in Greater Manchester is very much doubling down on the virtue signalling.
    Well I defer on your precise environment obviously. And that's good to hear.

    But would you recognise the opposite equally well? I doubt it.
    A (leftish) friend of mine temporarily aquired an SUV, and said driving it made him want to go and sit outside the Unicorn Grocery Cooperative in Chorlton, revving it needlessly. Is that the sort of thing you're thinking of? But that was in jest and only funny because of that attitude's rarity.
    But I am urban middle class. Visible rightwingery is almost nonexistent.
    Heh. That's an offence under the RTA 1988 :smile:

    Under Section 42 (Construction and Use) of the Road Traffic Act 1988, engine idling is an offence.

    "Regulation 98 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 makes it an offence to leave a vehicle engine running unnecessarily while that vehicle is parked."

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,117
    pigeon said:

    For those who the Musk is just going after politically easy targets:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1887723221610283458

    American weapons programs need to be completely redone.

    The current strategy is to build a small number of weapons at a high price to fight yesterday’s war.

    Unless there are immediate and dramatic changes made, America will lose the next war very badly.

    Elon is right. Although there is a word for countries that put their faith in sheer quantities of cheap, rugged kit – we call them Russia.
    I'm assuming that Musk is more interested in drones than basic infantry cannon fodder. Putin can afford to fight to the last Kalmyk; even allowing for the cult following and the autocratic tendencies, Trump would find it harder work to justify forcing every man between the ages of 18 and 50 in Idaho to pick up a rusty rifle, and try to defeat a smaller but smarter opponent using weight of numbers in a series of mass casualty attacks.
    If the US is to mass produce drones for military purposes, then it needs an entirely new supply chain independent of China.

    The large majority of the electric motors, batteries, and electronic components required are produced there and nowhere else in anywhere near sufficient quantities.

    That would probably be a good idea for IS manufacturing, but it's beyond the scope of US defence manufacturers and outside the expertise the DOD.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,117
    Billionaires welcome.

    Members of Congress denied access to Department of Education
    https://thehill.com/homenews/education/5132685-department-of-education-musk-doge-trump-frost/
  • I'm inventing a dish

    I'm going to use entire leeks, hollowed out and stuffed with other food. Probably chicken and bacon in a fresh herb, cheese and cream sauce

    I'm going to call it the Whole Leek Wrap

    If you don't think this is funny, try ordering the Whole Leek Wrap from the menu..
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,557
    MattW said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Mango Man off on one about straws, now.

    Republican version of virtue signaling (Vice Signaling?).
    Saves having to address real problems.
    As in his first term he's making things worse, if he just played golf for 4 years things would be better.
    Reverse virtue signaling is definitely a thing. It's probably more common than the original now.
    As someone who recently sat through a corporate briefing which was 10% climate change, 60% DEI, and 30% the work we are actually here for - I strongly dispute that. The public sector in Greater Manchester is very much doubling down on the virtue signalling.
    Well I defer on your precise environment obviously. And that's good to hear.

    But would you recognise the opposite equally well? I doubt it.
    A (leftish) friend of mine temporarily aquired an SUV, and said driving it made him want to go and sit outside the Unicorn Grocery Cooperative in Chorlton, revving it needlessly. Is that the sort of thing you're thinking of? But that was in jest and only funny because of that attitude's rarity.
    But I am urban middle class. Visible rightwingery is almost nonexistent.
    Heh. That's an offence under the RTA 1988 :smile:

    Under Section 42 (Construction and Use) of the Road Traffic Act 1988, engine idling is an offence.

    "Regulation 98 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 makes it an offence to leave a vehicle engine running unnecessarily while that vehicle is parked."

    is that the same for my neighbour who incessantly revs his motorbike engine without moving anywhere?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,528

    Cookie said:

    TimS said:

    Good evening from my holiday cottage at the far North Western tip of Assynt.



    From the hill here I can see Lewis, the whole of Assynt and its inselbergs, the coast of Wester Ross and all the way to Skye.

    Magnificent.
    You have been very lucky with the weather. The night sky will be brilliant.
    Venus is particularly bright in the south west sky just now.

    This is what happens when I have been staying in Edinburgh all week and get home on a Friday night.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,169
    Stiff drink required for FA Cup match tonight.

    Should kick-start United season.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,613
    edited February 7
    Eabhal said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    The new MRP poll shows how much of a threat Reform are to Labour:

    https://x.com/marwandata/status/1887872745100185763

    Reform UK would gain 147 seats off Labour and 19 off the Conservatives.

    The most astonishing thing is Lab's predicted near wipe out in Wales only retaining the 4 Cardiff seats and Blaenau Gwent

    I'll believe it when I see it and not before.

    Though Wales was the last holdout of UKIP.
    I can believe it to an extent. Lab had a fairly bad GE in Wales losing 4% percentage points but gaining seats due to Con-Ref swing

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Wales

    Memories of Thatcher mean the Valleys won't vote Conservative, but Labour have been running the Senedd for 25 years now and it's hard to see what has got better. Reform are also clear second in many of these seats now
    If you are from a working class mining family that still hates Thatcher but can't stand Ed Miliband's opposition to coal mines then Reform are a viable option. Trump and Le Pen won plenty of coal miner and sons of coal miners votes
    Yes, look how all the ex-mining areas were rock-solid for Labour, before gradually drifting away. That actually resulted in brilliant voting efficiency last year, but it also makes such seats very vulnerable to Reform.

    Labour’s strongholds remain London, university constituencies, and Merseyside. Reform seem to be breaking into Greater Manchester, but not Greater Liverpool.
    I'm not sure that's quite the case.

    In that FindOutNow poll, both the NW and NE were stronger than for Labour than London. Reform are pretty consistent (with the exception of London, Wales and Scotland), while the Conservatives do best in the Shires around London.
    The latest Yougov has Labour first with Reform second in the North of England now too yes and Reform first and the Conservatives second in the Midlands and Reform a close third behind Labour and Plaid in Wales.

    In the South Reform is first followed by the Conservatives and LDs tied for second, in Scotland the SNP are first followed by Reform.

    Only in London now are the Conservatives and Labour still the main two, with Labour first, the Conservatives second and Reform only 4th behind the Greens. Indeed if you believe Yougov London is now the Kemi Tories best UK region after the Midlands and Labour's best region after the North

    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/VotingIntention_MRP_250203_w.pdf
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,528
    Foxy said:

    Stiff drink required for FA Cup match tonight.

    Should kick-start United season.

    Our home form has been shocking this season. I wouldn’t write Leicester off
  • Cult latest...


    Elon Musk

    @elonmusk
    ·
    3h

    I love @realDonaldTrump as much as a straight man can love another man

    Hey boys, get a room
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,169
    edited February 7
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Stiff drink required for FA Cup match tonight.

    Should kick-start United season.

    Our home form has been shocking this season. I wouldn’t write Leicester off
    I would!

    Watch out for Bilal El Kanous. He will be a massive star in the future.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,220
    edited February 7
    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    The new MRP poll shows how much of a threat Reform are to Labour:

    https://x.com/marwandata/status/1887872745100185763

    Reform UK would gain 147 seats off Labour and 19 off the Conservatives.

    The most astonishing thing is Lab's predicted near wipe out in Wales only retaining the 4 Cardiff seats and Blaenau Gwent

    I'll believe it when I see it and not before.

    Though Wales was the last holdout of UKIP.
    I can believe it to an extent. Lab had a fairly bad GE in Wales losing 4% percentage points but gaining seats due to Con-Ref swing

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Wales

    Memories of Thatcher mean the Valleys won't vote Conservative, but Labour have been running the Senedd for 25 years now and it's hard to see what has got better. Reform are also clear second in many of these seats now
    If you are from a working class mining family that still hates Thatcher but can't stand Ed Miliband's opposition to coal mines then Reform are a viable option. Trump and Le Pen won plenty of coal miner and sons of coal miners votes
    That's quite an interesting thought.

    Having listened to a couple of 40 minute interviews with Reform Millionaires in the last 48 hours, they are parading themselves along the catwalk as the biggest "Thatcherite".

    I wonder how that will play with the great unwashed?

    (I suspect they are relying on the great Reform unwashed not paying any attention because they are fulminating about Muslims.)
    The disconnect between the leadership of Reform and the voters on everything apart from being beastly to foreigners, must become problematic at some point.

    Hopefully before rather than after the GE.

    There was an interesting shouty question from Richard Tice about the Local Elections on Wednesday, really amping up his blood pressure about a one year delay (DICTATORSHIP !!!). He was very cross about having an extra year to roll out his campaign infra in about half of the areas. I wonder if he thinks they have reached their peak?

    Dictators, not democracies, cancel elections, and 5.5 million voters in southern England are being denied the right to pass judgment on the performance of their councillors over the past four years—interestingly, in areas where Reform UK is expected to do rather well. In cancelling these elections, the Secretary of State has admitted that she does not know what will replace them, and it seems there is a serious risk, as previously mentioned, of areas not being ready in 12 months’ time.
    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2025-02-05a.766.0#g791.1

    (He's been asking written questions about numbers of staff dedicated to FOI departments, so he's about to have another tantrum on that. There was a huge fluff off recently when they did not answer one of his FOI requests due to it being over the £500 to answer limit, but he went off on a - perhaps deliberate - misleading media wibbling campaign about falsely alleged suppression of information. All he had to do was pay the extra £100 himself out of his 10s of millions, but for him it's all about posturing.)
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,342
    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    The new MRP poll shows how much of a threat Reform are to Labour:

    https://x.com/marwandata/status/1887872745100185763

    Reform UK would gain 147 seats off Labour and 19 off the Conservatives.

    The most astonishing thing is Lab's predicted near wipe out in Wales only retaining the 4 Cardiff seats and Blaenau Gwent

    I'll believe it when I see it and not before.

    Though Wales was the last holdout of UKIP.
    I can believe it to an extent. Lab had a fairly bad GE in Wales losing 4% percentage points but gaining seats due to Con-Ref swing

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Wales

    Memories of Thatcher mean the Valleys won't vote Conservative, but Labour have been running the Senedd for 25 years now and it's hard to see what has got better. Reform are also clear second in many of these seats now
    If you are from a working class mining family that still hates Thatcher but can't stand Ed Miliband's opposition to coal mines then Reform are a viable option. Trump and Le Pen won plenty of coal miner and sons of coal miners votes
    The mines are ancient history. Poverty isn't.

    Welsh Labour has been in power for a very long time, during which improvements in the lives of its core support have been limited at best. Much of this can be and has been pinned on the Tories at Westminster, but they're now out of power and patience with their Labour replacements is in exceedingly short supply.

    If Reform can avoid self-combustion for long enough then it ought to do well in the Senedd elections. If that, in turn, forces Labour and Plaid into coalition then the argument that they're all the same, which was previously deployed very effectively in different circumstances in Scotland ("Tweedledum, Tweedledee and the Tweedledems" was how Alex Salmond once put it) gets fresh legs.

    The Tories, meanwhile, are liable to be relegated to minor party status and forgotten.
    There are still some working coal mines today, even in Wales

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberpergwm.

    Reform's dream scenario is for a Labour and Plaid government in Wales and an SNP and Labour government in Scotland next year followed by a Labour and LD government across the UK at the next GE (if they can't win a majority next time).

    They could then really squeeze the white working class vote as the main opposition in every part of the UK and still remain fresher and newer than the Tories still recovering in opposition after 14 years in government UK wide for middle class Leave voters.

    If Farage wins the white working class vote and the middle class Leave vote he can then win a majority UK wide (provided we don't switch to PR) and become largest party in Wales and probably become the main opposition to the SNP in Scotland too
    There’s no way there will be an SNP / Labour government in Scotland, due to deep seated mutual hatred. A Labour / Reform government would be more likely, or even a a Labour / Conservative government.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,169
    edited February 7
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Stiff drink required for FA Cup match tonight.

    Should kick-start United season.

    Our home form has been shocking this season. I wouldn’t write Leicester off
    I would!

    Watch out for Bilal El Kanous. He will be a massive star in the future.
    Good to have Hermandsen back in goal, and Ndidi back in midfield, but we simply can't keep a clean sheet.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,528
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Stiff drink required for FA Cup match tonight.

    Should kick-start United season.

    Our home form has been shocking this season. I wouldn’t write Leicester off
    I would!

    Watch out for Bilal El Kanous. He will be a massive star in the future.
    Honestly I would be more confident if this was at the King Power stadium.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,169
    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    The new MRP poll shows how much of a threat Reform are to Labour:

    https://x.com/marwandata/status/1887872745100185763

    Reform UK would gain 147 seats off Labour and 19 off the Conservatives.

    The most astonishing thing is Lab's predicted near wipe out in Wales only retaining the 4 Cardiff seats and Blaenau Gwent

    I'll believe it when I see it and not before.

    Though Wales was the last holdout of UKIP.
    I can believe it to an extent. Lab had a fairly bad GE in Wales losing 4% percentage points but gaining seats due to Con-Ref swing

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Wales

    Memories of Thatcher mean the Valleys won't vote Conservative, but Labour have been running the Senedd for 25 years now and it's hard to see what has got better. Reform are also clear second in many of these seats now
    If you are from a working class mining family that still hates Thatcher but can't stand Ed Miliband's opposition to coal mines then Reform are a viable option. Trump and Le Pen won plenty of coal miner and sons of coal miners votes
    That's quite an interesting thought.

    Having listened to a couple of 40 minute interviews with Reform Millionaires in the last 48 hours, they are parading themselves along the catwalk as the biggest "Thatcherite".

    I wonder how that will play with the great unwashed?

    (I suspect they are relying on the great Reform unwashed not paying any attention because they are fulminating about Muslims.)
    The disconnect between the leadership of Reform and the voters on everything apart from being beastly to foreigners, must become problematic at some point.

    Hopefully before rather than after the GE.

    There was an interesting shouty question from Richard Tice about the Local Elections on Wednesday, really amping up his blood pressure about a one year delay (DICTATORSHIP !!!). He was very cross about having an extra year to roll out his campaign infra in about half of the areas. I wonder if he thinks they have reached their peak?

    Dictators, not democracies, cancel elections, and 5.5 million voters in southern England are being denied the right to pass judgment on the performance of their councillors over the past four years—interestingly, in areas where Reform UK is expected to do rather well. In cancelling these elections, the Secretary of State has admitted that she does not know what will replace them, and it seems there is a serious risk, as previously mentioned, of areas not being ready in 12 months’ time.
    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2025-02-05a.766.0#g791.1

    (He's been asking written questions about numbers of staff dedicated to FOI departments, so he's about to have another tantrum on that. There was a huge fluff off recently when they did not answer one of his FOI requests due to it being over the £500 to answer limit, but he went off on a - perhaps deliberate - misleading media wibbling campaign about falsely alleged suppression of information. All he had to do was pay the extra £100 himself out of his 10s of millions, but for him it's all about posturing.)
    I don't like cancelling elections, even if they may only be for a year before the new structures.

    Not that I think the new local government plans wise.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,220
    edited February 7
    duplicate.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,220
    edited February 7

    I'm inventing a dish

    I'm going to use entire leeks, hollowed out and stuffed with other food. Probably chicken and bacon in a fresh herb, cheese and cream sauce

    I'm going to call it the Whole Leek Wrap

    Leeks are fantastic.

    I use them for all sorts of things as a milder alternative to onions.

    OGGIE !! OGGIE !! OGGIE !!

    https://youtu.be/O-EKY7z_jeE?t=14
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999

    Ever since my forebears left the banks of the Danube for Wales in 1000BC we haven't been able to understand the British class system.

    Given that they travelled through Switzerland France and England en route you might question their judgement…
    They settled in England until you Anglo Saxons sent them packing to Wales around 700 BC.
    700AD
    Yeah
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,216
    Nigelb said:

    Billionaires welcome.

    Members of Congress denied access to Department of Education
    https://thehill.com/homenews/education/5132685-department-of-education-musk-doge-trump-frost/

    One can only hope the ridiculous overreach will trigger a suitable response not only from the courts but also from the non-MAGA cult voters who thought they were getting a business guy who would deal with prices and not Revolution 2.0

    Sadly, lawyer guy speaking on Bill Kristol's The Bulwark yesterday said the problem is anything mad that Musk/Trump do at Fed level that gets to the courts and they issued with a restraining order can just continue because the court can only agree there's been contempt and order US marshals in and... you guessed it... Trump controls the marshals via DoJ which is run by... oh I forget... someone from Fox News who thinks Trump has been sent by God to save humanity from woke dress sense probably.

  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,173
    edited February 7
    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    The new MRP poll shows how much of a threat Reform are to Labour:

    https://x.com/marwandata/status/1887872745100185763

    Reform UK would gain 147 seats off Labour and 19 off the Conservatives.

    The most astonishing thing is Lab's predicted near wipe out in Wales only retaining the 4 Cardiff seats and Blaenau Gwent

    I'll believe it when I see it and not before.

    Though Wales was the last holdout of UKIP.
    I can believe it to an extent. Lab had a fairly bad GE in Wales losing 4% percentage points but gaining seats due to Con-Ref swing

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Wales

    Memories of Thatcher mean the Valleys won't vote Conservative, but Labour have been running the Senedd for 25 years now and it's hard to see what has got better. Reform are also clear second in many of these seats now
    If you are from a working class mining family that still hates Thatcher but can't stand Ed Miliband's opposition to coal mines then Reform are a viable option. Trump and Le Pen won plenty of coal miner and sons of coal miners votes
    That's quite an interesting thought.

    Having listened to a couple of 40 minute interviews with Reform Millionaires in the last 48 hours, they are parading themselves along the catwalk as the biggest "Thatcherite".

    I wonder how that will play with the great unwashed?

    (I suspect they are relying on the great Reform unwashed not paying any attention because they are fulminating about Muslims.)
    No, they're relying on Labour accusing Reform of being for the rich only for Reform voters to ask how this is any different to Labour. In other words, to allege hypocrisy, which is political kryptonite.

    Reform has never been in power and can therefore play the "they are all the same" card to good effect. The longer that economic stagnation and perma-austerity drag on for (whilst property prices continue to accelerate into the stratosphere, wages start to fall again in real terms, and the television is full of ads for cruises and other premium lifestyle products being flogged to minted crusties, none of which Mr & Mrs Hardup of Rochdale could ever dream of affording,) the better the accusation will stick.

    An awful lot of Labour core voters are struggling and have been for nearly two decades now. If Labour fails to deliver and the Tories are no longer the only other show in town then the incentive to switch is huge, and traditional arguments in favour of stability and moderation won't wash when pitched against the voters' inability to afford to buy essentials. This is exactly what happened with Trump.

    I don't think this means that Reform is on course for power - there are too many people who don't like Farage, who aren't receptive to Reform's messaging and, in better off parts of the country, who have too much to lose from rocking the boat. But I see no particular reason why Reform can't demolish the Red Wall again if there aren't tangible signs of improvement in voters' circumstances by 2028/29. That means feeling better off. Minor reductions in the length of NHS waiting lists, the odd new school here and there, and the same old tired promises of jam tomorrow won't cut it.
This discussion has been closed.