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A reminder, people with class do not talk about class – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,318
edited February 18 in General
A reminder, people with class do not talk about class – politicalbetting.com

Senior Labour figures reportedly want Keir Starmer to put more emphasis on his working class roots – they may be on to something, as only 25% of Britons think Starmer had a working class upbringing, compared to 44% who think he had a middle class upbringingyougov.co.uk/topics/polit…

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 12,708
    edited February 7
    USAID cuts benefit Putin and Orban: https://www.ft.com/content/10b6a51f-35d4-4f17-86ff-15bc9751f73d

    The deputy chair of the Russian security council, Dmitry Medvedev, who served as prime minister and president of Russia in rotation with Putin, praised Musk’s “smart move . . . to plug USAID’s deep throat”. Balázs Orbán, the Hungarian prime minister’s political director, described the freeze as “refreshing”. Latin American strongmen who have long accused USAID of propping up their opponents also felt vindicated by the move.

    The 2025 foreign aid budget included $268mn allocated by Congress to support “independent media and the free flow of information” around the world, according to Reporters Without Borders, citing data that has since been removed from the US government website.

    Jeanne Cavelier, head of Reporters Without Borders’ eastern Europe & Central Asia Desk, warned that the freeze would be “catastrophic” for many independent outlets in the former Soviet space, including in Ukraine, where most outlets rely on US grants. Of Belarus’s remaining independent news outlets — all of which are now in exile — at least six reported a complete cessation of funding, Cavelier said.

    In Russia, one of the biggest independent outlets, Meduza, was due to hold a management board meeting on Friday to discuss its future. Other media had already begun implementing staff and salary cuts, said Sauer.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,328

    USAID cuts benefit Putin and Orban: https://www.ft.com/content/10b6a51f-35d4-4f17-86ff-15bc9751f73d

    The deputy chair of the Russian security council, Dmitry Medvedev, who served as prime minister and president of Russia in rotation with Putin, praised Musk’s “smart move . . . to plug USAID’s deep throat”. Balázs Orbán, the Hungarian prime minister’s political director, described the freeze as “refreshing”. Latin American strongmen who have long accused USAID of propping up their opponents also felt vindicated by the move.

    The 2025 foreign aid budget included $268mn allocated by Congress to support “independent media and the free flow of information” around the world, according to Reporters Without Borders, citing data that has since been removed from the US government website.

    Jeanne Cavelier, head of Reporters Without Borders’ eastern Europe & Central Asia Desk, warned that the freeze would be “catastrophic” for many independent outlets in the former Soviet space, including in Ukraine, where most outlets rely on US grants. Of Belarus’s remaining independent news outlets — all of which are now in exile — at least six reported a complete cessation of funding, Cavelier said.

    In Russia, one of the biggest independent outlets, Meduza, was due to hold a management board meeting on Friday to discuss its future. Other media had already begun implementing staff and salary cuts, said Sauer.

    Oh god don't start.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    And people with money don’t talk about having money.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    So his father made tools.

    Well that’s pretty much obvious to everyone…
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,372
    Sandpit said:

    So his father made tools.

    Well that’s pretty much obvious to everyone…

    That's right, don't talk about your class, just make it evident.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999
    Ever since my forebears left the banks of the Danube for Wales in 1000BC we haven't been able to understand the British class system.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,554
    edited February 7
    Is there a leadership election on?

    https://x.com/gbnews/status/1887863894493802632

    Furious residents of Britain's second biggest city tell @RobertJenrick they are sick of their areas being trashed while the clean up can take weeks.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,487
    TOPPING said:

    USAID cuts benefit Putin and Orban: https://www.ft.com/content/10b6a51f-35d4-4f17-86ff-15bc9751f73d

    The deputy chair of the Russian security council, Dmitry Medvedev, who served as prime minister and president of Russia in rotation with Putin, praised Musk’s “smart move . . . to plug USAID’s deep throat”. Balázs Orbán, the Hungarian prime minister’s political director, described the freeze as “refreshing”. Latin American strongmen who have long accused USAID of propping up their opponents also felt vindicated by the move.

    The 2025 foreign aid budget included $268mn allocated by Congress to support “independent media and the free flow of information” around the world, according to Reporters Without Borders, citing data that has since been removed from the US government website.

    Jeanne Cavelier, head of Reporters Without Borders’ eastern Europe & Central Asia Desk, warned that the freeze would be “catastrophic” for many independent outlets in the former Soviet space, including in Ukraine, where most outlets rely on US grants. Of Belarus’s remaining independent news outlets — all of which are now in exile — at least six reported a complete cessation of funding, Cavelier said.

    In Russia, one of the biggest independent outlets, Meduza, was due to hold a management board meeting on Friday to discuss its future. Other media had already begun implementing staff and salary cuts, said Sauer.

    Oh god don't start.
    I heard the voice of America
    Callin' on my wavelength
    Tellin' me to tune in on my radio
    I heard the voice of America
    Callin' on my wavelength
    Singin' "Come back, baby
    Come back
    Come back, baby
    Come back"
  • I am shocked.

    The mastermind behind the right-wing X, formerly Twitter, account ‘Inevitable West’ has been exposed as an alleged Indian crypto scammer and political grifter following a major blunder.

    Saurabh Chandrakar, linked to the controversial Mahadev betting app, mistakenly promoted the app on his main social media account, inadvertently leading to his identification. This error sparked online investigations, which uncovered his alleged involvement in a massive money-laundering operation connected to the app.


    https://tribune.com.pk/story/2526904/mastermind-behind-right-wing-twitter-account-inevitable-west-exposed-as-indian-crypto-scammer
  • ManOfGwentManOfGwent Posts: 144
    I am the grandson of a polish aristocrat who became a coal miner, after gliding into Normandy and Parachuting into Arnhem. Now that's a riches to rags story that will win any voter over. (Genuinely true story, but I never met him and by l accounts he rarely spoke of it, true class)
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,633
    Donald Trump is about to lose his fucking shit.



    https://x.com/acnewsitics/status/1887867713692782947
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,553
    edited February 7
    Yes I agree, voters have elected toffs like Cameron, upper middle class lawyers like Blair, lower middle glass grocers daughters like Thatcher and working class by upbringing sons of trapeze artists and tool makers and builders like Major and Starmer and Heath. They will elect based on a PM's record. Though the correct answer is Starmer is middle class now with a working class upbringing.

    All PMs have been middle class effectively as adults, though we have had working class Deputy PMs like Prescott and Rayner.

    While Cameron was borderline upper class we haven't had a genuine upper class peer of the realm as PM since Douglas Home, who was Earl of Home for 2 years before giving up his title and leaving the Lords to enter the Commons again as PM, you can only be upper class by birth or arguably marriage. Once the last remaining hereditary peers leave parliament there will be almost no upper class members of the Houses of Parliament left, except a handful of life peer appointed hereditaries like Viscount Thurso (who also managed to win a Commons seat once the ban on peers becoming MPs was lifted)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,595
    So Musky Baby has a poll asking:
    "Bring back @DOGE staffer who made inappropriate statements via a now deleted pseudonym?"

    Currently the 'poll' shows 80% yes.

    Either Twix is fundamentally borken, or the USA is.

    There's little point adding Musk to that, as it's obvious he's utterly borken.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1887867644814020902
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,417

    Is there a leadership election on?

    https://x.com/gbnews/status/1887863894493802632

    Furious residents of Britain's second biggest city tell @RobertJenrick they are sick of their areas being trashed while the clean up can take weeks.

    That’s good from Jenrick, but he’s in the wrong party

    We have millions of IQ 85 people, what are we gonna do about it?
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,049
    HYUFD said:

    Yes I agree, voters have elected toffs like Cameron, upper middle class lawyers like Blair, lower middle glass grocers daughters like Thatcher and working class sons of trapeze artists and tool makers and builders like Major and Starmer and Heath. They will elect based on a PM's record. Though the correct answer is Starmer is middle class now with a working class upbringing.

    All PMs have been middle class effectively though, though we have had working class Deputy PMs like Prescott and Rayner.

    While Cameron was borderline upper class we haven't had a genuine upper class peer of the realm as PM since Douglas Home, who was Earl of Home for 2 years before giving up his title and leaving the Lords to enter the Commons again as PM, you can only be upper class by birth or arguably marriage. Once the last remaining hereditary peers leave parliament there will be almost no upper class members of the Houses of Parliament left, except a handful of life peer appointed hereditaries like Viscount Thurso (who also managed to win a Commons seat once the ban on peers becoming MPs was lifted)

    MacDonald was definitely working class when Labour formed their first government in 1924. Less so when he formed the National one in 1931. Perhaps Callaghan too, although there's an argument he was lower-middle class by the time he was elected an MP.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,934

    I am shocked.

    The mastermind behind the right-wing X, formerly Twitter, account ‘Inevitable West’ has been exposed as an alleged Indian crypto scammer and political grifter following a major blunder.

    Saurabh Chandrakar, linked to the controversial Mahadev betting app, mistakenly promoted the app on his main social media account, inadvertently leading to his identification. This error sparked online investigations, which uncovered his alleged involvement in a massive money-laundering operation connected to the app.


    https://tribune.com.pk/story/2526904/mastermind-behind-right-wing-twitter-account-inevitable-west-exposed-as-indian-crypto-scammer

    Presumably the account has gone west. If not yet, it's inevitable.

    BTW, what is it about the overlap between New Right Populists and scammers?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,372

    Is there a leadership election on?

    https://x.com/gbnews/status/1887863894493802632

    Furious residents of Britain's second biggest city tell @RobertJenrick they are sick of their areas being trashed while the clean up can take weeks.

    Central Government fiscal policy set up for the current financial year by ... let's see ...
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 381

    Is there a leadership election on?

    https://x.com/gbnews/status/1887863894493802632

    Furious residents of Britain's second biggest city tell @RobertJenrick they are sick of their areas being trashed while the clean up can take weeks.

    Blood in the water. Place your bets now.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,417
    Battlebus said:

    Is there a leadership election on?

    https://x.com/gbnews/status/1887863894493802632

    Furious residents of Britain's second biggest city tell @RobertJenrick they are sick of their areas being trashed while the clean up can take weeks.

    Blood in the water. Place your bets now.
    The audio edit is impeccable
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,553
    edited February 7

    HYUFD said:

    Yes I agree, voters have elected toffs like Cameron, upper middle class lawyers like Blair, lower middle glass grocers daughters like Thatcher and working class sons of trapeze artists and tool makers and builders like Major and Starmer and Heath. They will elect based on a PM's record. Though the correct answer is Starmer is middle class now with a working class upbringing.

    All PMs have been middle class effectively though, though we have had working class Deputy PMs like Prescott and Rayner.

    While Cameron was borderline upper class we haven't had a genuine upper class peer of the realm as PM since Douglas Home, who was Earl of Home for 2 years before giving up his title and leaving the Lords to enter the Commons again as PM, you can only be upper class by birth or arguably marriage. Once the last remaining hereditary peers leave parliament there will be almost no upper class members of the Houses of Parliament left, except a handful of life peer appointed hereditaries like Viscount Thurso (who also managed to win a Commons seat once the ban on peers becoming MPs was lifted)

    MacDonald was definitely working class when Labour formed their first government in 1924. Less so when he formed the National one in 1931. Perhaps Callaghan too, although there's an argument he was lower-middle class by the time he was elected an MP.
    Not really, MacDonald was a clerk and private secretary before election, so lower middle class by then. Callaghan too was a middle class tax inspector
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,559

    Is there a leadership election on?

    https://x.com/gbnews/status/1887863894493802632

    Furious residents of Britain's second biggest city tell @RobertJenrick they are sick of their areas being trashed while the clean up can take weeks.

    Is Handsworth in Manchester ?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    Scott_xP said:

    Donald Trump is about to lose his fucking shit.



    https://x.com/acnewsitics/status/1887867713692782947

    Trump’s going to be over the moon that the critisism of the massive swamp-draining operation is going to someone else, someone who really DGAF and happily gets on with the job.

    It’s a big swamp to drain.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,068
    edited February 7
    Mexico actually have a chance of making progress here.
    Thanks to the amount of manufacturing there, they are a very large consumer of legacy chips, so starting at the low end and working up from there makes considerable economic sense.

    Mexico's Kutsari to Boost Semiconductors, Fast-Track Patents
    https://mexicobusiness.news/automotive/news/mexicos-kutsari-boost-semiconductors-fast-track-patents
    Mexico has officially launched the "Kutsari" project, a national initiative to strengthen the country's semiconductor industry. Announced by President Claudia Sheinbaum on Feb. 6, 2025, the program aims to position Mexico as a key player in semiconductor design and manufacturing.

    The initiative, led by the Ministry of Sciences, Humanities, Technology, and Innovation (SECIHTI) includes the establishment of the National Semiconductor Design Center and a network of design hubs in Puebla, Jalisco, and Sonora. The primary goal is to enhance domestic design capabilities through collaborations with public higher education institutions. The project also proposes legal reforms to streamline patent registration, enabling faster commercialization of semiconductor technologies...

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,534
    edited February 7
    I ended up having to stay in Berlin a few extra days so only heading home now before the weekend. For something that too 14 years to build it's laughable, there is a solitary bar which is out in the open so not very relaxing, the restaurant selection is absolutely shocking, the highlights being a Starbucks and Burger King or disgusting looking currywurst place.

    Speaking to German people all week has really put our infrastructure troubles into perspective. One of the guys was telling me about some roadworks at the end of his road which blocked the way to the main road so he had to navigate a one way system that took and extra 10 mins per journey, the work was supposed to take 4 weeks but after 4 weeks they said they needed more time and got another 4 weeks. Eventually it got to month 6 of the road being closed at one end and the residents got fed up and approached the local council about why the roadworks were still ongoing but no one seemed to be working and it turns out that the council had refused the licence to do a major part of the work to the telecoms company but the national government were handing out fines for the telecoms company not delivering infrastructure upgrades on time. It was the first time I felt an ounce of sympathy for them rather than schadenfreude.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,633
    Sandpit said:

    Trump’s going to be over the moon

    Trump hates anyone but him having the limelight

    Did you miss the quote this morning about the Presidency being a TV show where he has to vanquish an "enemy" every single day?

    @gardnerakayla

    President Trump says he will sign an executive order "ending the ridiculous Biden push for Paper Straws."
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,595
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Donald Trump is about to lose his fucking shit.



    https://x.com/acnewsitics/status/1887867713692782947

    Trump’s going to be over the moon that the critisism of the massive swamp-draining operation is going to someone else, someone who really DGAF and happily gets on with the job.

    It’s a big swamp to drain.
    Repeating that 'swamp' bs as though it is some form of religious mantra does not make it true.

    What is there is no swamp?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,883
    edited February 7
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes I agree, voters have elected toffs like Cameron, upper middle class lawyers like Blair, lower middle glass grocers daughters like Thatcher and working class sons of trapeze artists and tool makers and builders like Major and Starmer and Heath. They will elect based on a PM's record. Though the correct answer is Starmer is middle class now with a working class upbringing.

    All PMs have been middle class effectively though, though we have had working class Deputy PMs like Prescott and Rayner.

    While Cameron was borderline upper class we haven't had a genuine upper class peer of the realm as PM since Douglas Home, who was Earl of Home for 2 years before giving up his title and leaving the Lords to enter the Commons again as PM, you can only be upper class by birth or arguably marriage. Once the last remaining hereditary peers leave parliament there will be almost no upper class members of the Houses of Parliament left, except a handful of life peer appointed hereditaries like Viscount Thurso (who also managed to win a Commons seat once the ban on peers becoming MPs was lifted)

    MacDonald was definitely working class when Labour formed their first government in 1924. Less so when he formed the National one in 1931. Perhaps Callaghan too, although there's an argument he was lower-middle class by the time he was elected an MP.
    Not really, MacDonald was a clerk and private secretary before election, so lower middle class by then. Callaghan too was a middle class tax inspector
    People's social class, then and now, inc all the subtle gradations - you are the oracle on this topic, H, if that can be said without embarrassing you.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,687

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Donald Trump is about to lose his fucking shit.



    https://x.com/acnewsitics/status/1887867713692782947

    Trump’s going to be over the moon that the critisism of the massive swamp-draining operation is going to someone else, someone who really DGAF and happily gets on with the job.

    It’s a big swamp to drain.
    Repeating that 'swamp' bs as though it is some form of religious mantra does not make it true.

    What is there is no swamp?
    You are out of date. Once it has been repeated ten times it is now considered true.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    MaxPB said:

    I ended up having to stay in Berlin a few extra days so only heading home now before the weekend. For something that too 14 years to build it's laughable, there is a solitary bar which is out in the open so not very relaxing, the restaurant selection is absolutely shocking, the highlights being a Starbucks and Burger King or disgusting looking currywurst place.

    Speaking to German people all week has really put our infrastructure troubles into perspective. One of the guys was telling me about some roadworks at the end of his road which blocked the way to the main road so he had to navigate a one way system that took and extra 10 mins per journey, the work was supposed to take 4 weeks but after 4 weeks they said they needed more time and got another 4 weeks. Eventually it got to month 6 of the road being closed at one end and the residents got fed up and approached the local council about why the roadworks were still ongoing but no one seemed to be working and it turns out that the council had refused the licence to do a major part of the work to the telecoms company but the national government were handing out fines for the telecoms company not delivering infrastructure upgrades on time. It was the first time I felt an ounce of sympathy for them rather than schadenfreude.

    Does the whole of the West need a department of government efficiency?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,633

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Donald Trump is about to lose his fucking shit.



    https://x.com/acnewsitics/status/1887867713692782947

    Trump’s going to be over the moon that the critisism of the massive swamp-draining operation is going to someone else, someone who really DGAF and happily gets on with the job.

    It’s a big swamp to drain.
    Repeating that 'swamp' bs as though it is some form of religious mantra does not make it true.

    What is there is no swamp?
    The "swamp" is being drained into billionaires' bank accounts...
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,934
    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Trump’s going to be over the moon

    Trump hates anyone but him having the limelight

    Did you miss the quote this morning about the Presidency being a TV show where he has to vanquish an "enemy" every single day?

    @gardnerakayla

    President Trump says he will sign an executive order "ending the ridiculous Biden push for Paper Straws."
    Especially given that the deal was presumably something like Trump gets the glory and Musk gets the power?

    Potentially, that could have been a win-win; Trump gets to be the President without having to do much of the work, Musk gets to quietly remake the US state in his horrible image whilst everyone is distracted by the latest excretions from the Orange Man in the White House.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Donald Trump is about to lose his fucking shit.



    https://x.com/acnewsitics/status/1887867713692782947

    Trump’s going to be over the moon that the critisism of the massive swamp-draining operation is going to someone else, someone who really DGAF and happily gets on with the job.

    It’s a big swamp to drain.
    Repeating that 'swamp' bs as though it is some form of religious mantra does not make it true.

    What is there is no swamp?
    The "swamp" is being drained into billionaires' bank accounts...
    The swamp was being drained into billionaires’ bank accounts.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,104
    On topic, wasn't Starmer's father a toolmaker? Or something like that. Or have I got that wrong?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,190
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    I ended up having to stay in Berlin a few extra days so only heading home now before the weekend. For something that too 14 years to build it's laughable, there is a solitary bar which is out in the open so not very relaxing, the restaurant selection is absolutely shocking, the highlights being a Starbucks and Burger King or disgusting looking currywurst place.

    Speaking to German people all week has really put our infrastructure troubles into perspective. One of the guys was telling me about some roadworks at the end of his road which blocked the way to the main road so he had to navigate a one way system that took and extra 10 mins per journey, the work was supposed to take 4 weeks but after 4 weeks they said they needed more time and got another 4 weeks. Eventually it got to month 6 of the road being closed at one end and the residents got fed up and approached the local council about why the roadworks were still ongoing but no one seemed to be working and it turns out that the council had refused the licence to do a major part of the work to the telecoms company but the national government were handing out fines for the telecoms company not delivering infrastructure upgrades on time. It was the first time I felt an ounce of sympathy for them rather than schadenfreude.

    Does the whole of the West need a department of government efficiency?
    The answer is obviously yes, but if one was created here we'd just appoint Baroness Stupid - she'd spend 7 years, costing many millions - a couple of which she keeps (and a couple more she oils the wheels with), and concludes that everything is fine really. We could do worse than hire Musk to do the job.

    The British state has a lot of problems. (And none of this would ever get me to vote Reform!)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999
    ...
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Donald Trump is about to lose his fucking shit.



    https://x.com/acnewsitics/status/1887867713692782947

    Trump’s going to be over the moon that the critisism of the massive swamp-draining operation is going to someone else, someone who really DGAF and happily gets on with the job.

    It’s a big swamp to drain.
    Trump is the swamp.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,595

    On topic, wasn't Starmer's father a toolmaker? Or something like that. Or have I got that wrong?

    His dad was a toolmaker, but he doesn't like to talk about it... ;)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,372

    On topic, wasn't Starmer's father a toolmaker? Or something like that. Or have I got that wrong?

    Oh yes. The right wing on PB loved making crude jokes about it, and still do. Obviously too crude to mean much to someone classy like you.
  • He's called Keir. Middle name Rodney (when it was posh). He played the flute. Went to a grammar/private school.
    His dad owned a factory. He's worth £millions. He's middle class and has always been.

    I couldn't care less though. I wouldn't want to be judged on who my parents were/are, nor my grandparents. Workhouses and poverty.

    Let him be judged on his actions.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,553
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes I agree, voters have elected toffs like Cameron, upper middle class lawyers like Blair, lower middle glass grocers daughters like Thatcher and working class sons of trapeze artists and tool makers and builders like Major and Starmer and Heath. They will elect based on a PM's record. Though the correct answer is Starmer is middle class now with a working class upbringing.

    All PMs have been middle class effectively though, though we have had working class Deputy PMs like Prescott and Rayner.

    While Cameron was borderline upper class we haven't had a genuine upper class peer of the realm as PM since Douglas Home, who was Earl of Home for 2 years before giving up his title and leaving the Lords to enter the Commons again as PM, you can only be upper class by birth or arguably marriage. Once the last remaining hereditary peers leave parliament there will be almost no upper class members of the Houses of Parliament left, except a handful of life peer appointed hereditaries like Viscount Thurso (who also managed to win a Commons seat once the ban on peers becoming MPs was lifted)

    MacDonald was definitely working class when Labour formed their first government in 1924. Less so when he formed the National one in 1931. Perhaps Callaghan too, although there's an argument he was lower-middle class by the time he was elected an MP.
    Not really, MacDonald was a clerk and private secretary before election, so lower middle class by then. Callaghan too was a middle class tax inspector
    People's social class, then and now, inc all the subtle gradations - you are the oracle on this topic, H, if that can be said without embarrassing you.
    Thanks, I should really have a column in Tatler
  • Is there a leadership election on?

    https://x.com/gbnews/status/1887863894493802632

    Furious residents of Britain's second biggest city tell @RobertJenrick they are sick of their areas being trashed while the clean up can take weeks.

    Fair play to Jenrick, he actually comes across as normal in that. Looks horrific, how can people live like this?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,883
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes I agree, voters have elected toffs like Cameron, upper middle class lawyers like Blair, lower middle glass grocers daughters like Thatcher and working class sons of trapeze artists and tool makers and builders like Major and Starmer and Heath. They will elect based on a PM's record. Though the correct answer is Starmer is middle class now with a working class upbringing.

    All PMs have been middle class effectively though, though we have had working class Deputy PMs like Prescott and Rayner.

    While Cameron was borderline upper class we haven't had a genuine upper class peer of the realm as PM since Douglas Home, who was Earl of Home for 2 years before giving up his title and leaving the Lords to enter the Commons again as PM, you can only be upper class by birth or arguably marriage. Once the last remaining hereditary peers leave parliament there will be almost no upper class members of the Houses of Parliament left, except a handful of life peer appointed hereditaries like Viscount Thurso (who also managed to win a Commons seat once the ban on peers becoming MPs was lifted)

    MacDonald was definitely working class when Labour formed their first government in 1924. Less so when he formed the National one in 1931. Perhaps Callaghan too, although there's an argument he was lower-middle class by the time he was elected an MP.
    Not really, MacDonald was a clerk and private secretary before election, so lower middle class by then. Callaghan too was a middle class tax inspector
    People's social class, then and now, inc all the subtle gradations - you are the oracle on this topic, H, if that can be said without embarrassing you.
    Thanks, I should really have a column in Tatler
    I don't understand why you haven't.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999
    Taz said:

    Is there a leadership election on?

    https://x.com/gbnews/status/1887863894493802632

    Furious residents of Britain's second biggest city tell @RobertJenrick they are sick of their areas being trashed while the clean up can take weeks.

    Is Handsworth in Manchester ?
    No Handsworth has always been in Britain's SECOND city bab.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,049

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Donald Trump is about to lose his fucking shit.



    https://x.com/acnewsitics/status/1887867713692782947

    Trump’s going to be over the moon that the critisism of the massive swamp-draining operation is going to someone else, someone who really DGAF and happily gets on with the job.

    It’s a big swamp to drain.
    Repeating that 'swamp' bs as though it is some form of religious mantra does not make it true.

    What is there is no swamp?
    Washington DC was literally built on a swamp. Maybe they should relocate it to Gaza?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes I agree, voters have elected toffs like Cameron, upper middle class lawyers like Blair, lower middle glass grocers daughters like Thatcher and working class sons of trapeze artists and tool makers and builders like Major and Starmer and Heath. They will elect based on a PM's record. Though the correct answer is Starmer is middle class now with a working class upbringing.

    All PMs have been middle class effectively though, though we have had working class Deputy PMs like Prescott and Rayner.

    While Cameron was borderline upper class we haven't had a genuine upper class peer of the realm as PM since Douglas Home, who was Earl of Home for 2 years before giving up his title and leaving the Lords to enter the Commons again as PM, you can only be upper class by birth or arguably marriage. Once the last remaining hereditary peers leave parliament there will be almost no upper class members of the Houses of Parliament left, except a handful of life peer appointed hereditaries like Viscount Thurso (who also managed to win a Commons seat once the ban on peers becoming MPs was lifted)

    MacDonald was definitely working class when Labour formed their first government in 1924. Less so when he formed the National one in 1931. Perhaps Callaghan too, although there's an argument he was lower-middle class by the time he was elected an MP.
    Not really, MacDonald was a clerk and private secretary before election, so lower middle class by then. Callaghan too was a middle class tax inspector
    People's social class, then and now, inc all the subtle gradations - you are the oracle on this topic, H, if that can be said without embarrassing you.
    Thanks, I should really have a column in Tatler
    Is the Illustrated London News still going?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,883

    Is there a leadership election on?

    https://x.com/gbnews/status/1887863894493802632

    Furious residents of Britain's second biggest city tell @RobertJenrick they are sick of their areas being trashed while the clean up can take weeks.

    Fair play to Jenrick, he actually comes across as normal in that. Looks horrific, how can people live like this?
    ITV News majored on this, "fly tipping", a couple of years ago. They included a feature on it most days for about a month.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 791
    Taz said:

    Is there a leadership election on?

    https://x.com/gbnews/status/1887863894493802632

    Furious residents of Britain's second biggest city tell @RobertJenrick they are sick of their areas being trashed while the clean up can take weeks.

    Is Handsworth in Manchester ?
    Have they considered not fly-tipping their rubbish and old furniture on the street?
    Another top tip is not putting your rubbish out until bin day so it doesn't get scattered everywhere by foxes and crows.

    Fly-tipping is becoming a big problem though, don't use unlicensed clearance companies. I doubt that's the problem in Birmingham, though it might be if they have Jenrick putting out ads that show no one would notice another 30t of flytipped waste.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999

    Is there a leadership election on?

    https://x.com/gbnews/status/1887863894493802632

    Furious residents of Britain's second biggest city tell @RobertJenrick they are sick of their areas being trashed while the clean up can take weeks.

    Fair play to Jenrick, he actually comes across as normal in that. Looks horrific, how can people live like this?
    The Conservatives crashed the car, they are now surveying the wreckage and asking "who crashed this car?"
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,687
    kinabalu said:

    Is there a leadership election on?

    https://x.com/gbnews/status/1887863894493802632

    Furious residents of Britain's second biggest city tell @RobertJenrick they are sick of their areas being trashed while the clean up can take weeks.

    Fair play to Jenrick, he actually comes across as normal in that. Looks horrific, how can people live like this?
    ITV News majored on this, "fly tipping", a couple of years ago. They included a feature on it most days for about a month.
    I saw some of that too, but had to turn it off as it was just a load of rubbish imo.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,487
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes I agree, voters have elected toffs like Cameron, upper middle class lawyers like Blair, lower middle glass grocers daughters like Thatcher and working class sons of trapeze artists and tool makers and builders like Major and Starmer and Heath. They will elect based on a PM's record. Though the correct answer is Starmer is middle class now with a working class upbringing.

    All PMs have been middle class effectively though, though we have had working class Deputy PMs like Prescott and Rayner.

    While Cameron was borderline upper class we haven't had a genuine upper class peer of the realm as PM since Douglas Home, who was Earl of Home for 2 years before giving up his title and leaving the Lords to enter the Commons again as PM, you can only be upper class by birth or arguably marriage. Once the last remaining hereditary peers leave parliament there will be almost no upper class members of the Houses of Parliament left, except a handful of life peer appointed hereditaries like Viscount Thurso (who also managed to win a Commons seat once the ban on peers becoming MPs was lifted)

    MacDonald was definitely working class when Labour formed their first government in 1924. Less so when he formed the National one in 1931. Perhaps Callaghan too, although there's an argument he was lower-middle class by the time he was elected an MP.
    Not really, MacDonald was a clerk and private secretary before election, so lower middle class by then. Callaghan too was a middle class tax inspector
    People's social class, then and now, inc all the subtle gradations - you are the oracle on this topic, H, if that can be said without embarrassing you.
    Thanks, I should really have a column in Tatler
    I don't understand why you haven't.
    It's perfectly simple, really. Working class have a bath after work, middle class have a shower beforehand. Anyone who does neither belongs to the Great Unwashed.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,372

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes I agree, voters have elected toffs like Cameron, upper middle class lawyers like Blair, lower middle glass grocers daughters like Thatcher and working class sons of trapeze artists and tool makers and builders like Major and Starmer and Heath. They will elect based on a PM's record. Though the correct answer is Starmer is middle class now with a working class upbringing.

    All PMs have been middle class effectively though, though we have had working class Deputy PMs like Prescott and Rayner.

    While Cameron was borderline upper class we haven't had a genuine upper class peer of the realm as PM since Douglas Home, who was Earl of Home for 2 years before giving up his title and leaving the Lords to enter the Commons again as PM, you can only be upper class by birth or arguably marriage. Once the last remaining hereditary peers leave parliament there will be almost no upper class members of the Houses of Parliament left, except a handful of life peer appointed hereditaries like Viscount Thurso (who also managed to win a Commons seat once the ban on peers becoming MPs was lifted)

    MacDonald was definitely working class when Labour formed their first government in 1924. Less so when he formed the National one in 1931. Perhaps Callaghan too, although there's an argument he was lower-middle class by the time he was elected an MP.
    Not really, MacDonald was a clerk and private secretary before election, so lower middle class by then. Callaghan too was a middle class tax inspector
    People's social class, then and now, inc all the subtle gradations - you are the oracle on this topic, H, if that can be said without embarrassing you.
    Thanks, I should really have a column in Tatler
    Is the Illustrated London News still going?
    I rather thin HYUFD prefers the Gentleman's Magazine with all the hatches, matches and despatches of the posh.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,595
    Nigelb said:

    Mexico actually have a chance of making progress here.
    Thanks to the amount of manufacturing there, they are a very large consumer of legacy chips, so starting at the low end and working up from there makes considerable economic sense.

    Mexico's Kutsari to Boost Semiconductors, Fast-Track Patents
    https://mexicobusiness.news/automotive/news/mexicos-kutsari-boost-semiconductors-fast-track-patents
    Mexico has officially launched the "Kutsari" project, a national initiative to strengthen the country's semiconductor industry. Announced by President Claudia Sheinbaum on Feb. 6, 2025, the program aims to position Mexico as a key player in semiconductor design and manufacturing.

    The initiative, led by the Ministry of Sciences, Humanities, Technology, and Innovation (SECIHTI) includes the establishment of the National Semiconductor Design Center and a network of design hubs in Puebla, Jalisco, and Sonora. The primary goal is to enhance domestic design capabilities through collaborations with public higher education institutions. The project also proposes legal reforms to streamline patent registration, enabling faster commercialization of semiconductor technologies...

    Back in the 1980s, Intel made a terrible, terrible mistake. They exited the DRAM industry.

    At one point, DRAM made up 90% of Intel's revenue. But it was low-profit stuff compared to processors, and rivals were nipping at their heels, particularly Japanese rivals. DRAM became less of a priority in the company for investment, and they decided to exit the DRAM industry in about 1985 and concentrate on processors. They never looked back - at least for a couple of decades.

    But it was a massive strategic mistake. DRAM (and memory generally...) chips are far easier to fabricate than processors. If you want to start up a new chip fabrication business, it's a good halfway step to making processors, allowing you to get experience and revenue in.

    Intel should have remained in the market as a major player and innovated much more, the increased innovation acting as a barrier to smaller competitors.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,190
    Does anyone have any suggestions for an up market breakfast pre-8am in central London? (My default is the Wolesley, but I'd not mind trying somewhere else)

    (As the thread is on class I should I guess point out that this is for my birthday, and thus I'm down a peg to start!)
  • Somebody has sent me this saying this is like me complaining about people being brash.

    A solicitor suspended from practice for a year for tricking an 82-year-old farmer has published a column bemoaning the state of ethics in the legal profession.

    In an opinion piece headed “Ethics 101” which appeared in the Law Gazette, former Wright Hassell solicitor Joel Woolf announced that he was “heartened that ethics is to come back to the top of the regulatory agenda”.

    “I am dismayed that there is no explanation as to why in recent years ethics has apparently fallen such as to need re-elevation."

    Mourning the drop in regulatory standards, he said, “Ethics in legal practice has to be taught and taught hard. It is not an easy subject”.

    Woolf would know. He recently served a year’s suspension from practice after admitting multiple breaches of the SRA Principles, although he was too coy to mention his lived experience in his column.

    While acting for a landlord in 2020, Woolf sent an 82-year-old tenant farmer three notices to quit agricultural land.

    All three notices were designed to look the same, but in fact each notice referred to a different ground on which possession was sought. Woolf sent notices 1 and 2 by first class mail and then sent notices 2 and 3 by special delivery.

    The tenant’s son mistakenly thought the notices sent by first class post were duplicates of the notices sent by special delivery, so only sent one set to his father’s solicitors.


    https://www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/exclusive-solicitor-preaches-ethics-after-serving-suspension-tricking-pensioner
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,645
    O/T I couldn't really care less whether Toolmakerson is middle class or working class (whatever either of those ridiculous labels mean). What I do care about is that he and his hopeless CoE are fucking up the economy because they do not understand the first thing about business. You can be from any background to understand business, and also from any background to be totally clueless, such as Keir From HR and Rachel From Customer Complaints.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,114

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes I agree, voters have elected toffs like Cameron, upper middle class lawyers like Blair, lower middle glass grocers daughters like Thatcher and working class sons of trapeze artists and tool makers and builders like Major and Starmer and Heath. They will elect based on a PM's record. Though the correct answer is Starmer is middle class now with a working class upbringing.

    All PMs have been middle class effectively though, though we have had working class Deputy PMs like Prescott and Rayner.

    While Cameron was borderline upper class we haven't had a genuine upper class peer of the realm as PM since Douglas Home, who was Earl of Home for 2 years before giving up his title and leaving the Lords to enter the Commons again as PM, you can only be upper class by birth or arguably marriage. Once the last remaining hereditary peers leave parliament there will be almost no upper class members of the Houses of Parliament left, except a handful of life peer appointed hereditaries like Viscount Thurso (who also managed to win a Commons seat once the ban on peers becoming MPs was lifted)

    MacDonald was definitely working class when Labour formed their first government in 1924. Less so when he formed the National one in 1931. Perhaps Callaghan too, although there's an argument he was lower-middle class by the time he was elected an MP.
    Not really, MacDonald was a clerk and private secretary before election, so lower middle class by then. Callaghan too was a middle class tax inspector
    People's social class, then and now, inc all the subtle gradations - you are the oracle on this topic, H, if that can be said without embarrassing you.
    Thanks, I should really have a column in Tatler
    I don't understand why you haven't.
    It's perfectly simple, really. Working class have a bath after work, middle class have a shower beforehand. Anyone who does neither belongs to the Great Unwashed.
    What about those who do both?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,687
    Omnium said:

    Does anyone have any suggestions for an up market breakfast pre-8am in central London? (My default is the Wolesley, but I'd not mind trying somewhere else)

    (As the thread is on class I should I guess point out that this is for my birthday, and thus I'm down a peg to start!)

    We need to know what class you are first......
  • Is there a leadership election on?

    https://x.com/gbnews/status/1887863894493802632

    Furious residents of Britain's second biggest city tell @RobertJenrick they are sick of their areas being trashed while the clean up can take weeks.

    Fair play to Jenrick, he actually comes across as normal in that. Looks horrific, how can people live like this?
    The Conservatives crashed the car, they are now surveying the wreckage and asking "who crashed this car?"
    Yes of course. All Birmingham's many ills, including fly-tipping are entirely down to the Conservatives and nothing to do with the Labour run council who have been in control for the last 13 years.

    At some point, Labour and their supporters will have to take some responsibility. I understand it will be hard for you.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,883
    edited February 7
    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Trump’s going to be over the moon

    Trump hates anyone but him having the limelight

    Did you miss the quote this morning about the Presidency being a TV show where he has to vanquish an "enemy" every single day?

    @gardnerakayla

    President Trump says he will sign an executive order "ending the ridiculous Biden push for Paper Straws."
    I wonder what's going to happen with stuff that can't be done by signing executive orders? Improving the economy, controlling the deficit, combatting climate change, ending the Ukraine war, diplomacy in the Middle East, managing the relationship with China, all of this sort of thing?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,645

    On topic, wasn't Starmer's father a toolmaker? Or something like that. Or have I got that wrong?

    Yea, I have a feeling he was also DPP once. He never mentions either though. Odd really.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021

    Somebody has sent me this saying this is like me complaining about people being brash.

    A solicitor suspended from practice for a year for tricking an 82-year-old farmer has published a column bemoaning the state of ethics in the legal profession.

    In an opinion piece headed “Ethics 101” which appeared in the Law Gazette, former Wright Hassell solicitor Joel Woolf announced that he was “heartened that ethics is to come back to the top of the regulatory agenda”.

    “I am dismayed that there is no explanation as to why in recent years ethics has apparently fallen such as to need re-elevation."

    Mourning the drop in regulatory standards, he said, “Ethics in legal practice has to be taught and taught hard. It is not an easy subject”.

    Woolf would know. He recently served a year’s suspension from practice after admitting multiple breaches of the SRA Principles, although he was too coy to mention his lived experience in his column.

    While acting for a landlord in 2020, Woolf sent an 82-year-old tenant farmer three notices to quit agricultural land.

    All three notices were designed to look the same, but in fact each notice referred to a different ground on which possession was sought. Woolf sent notices 1 and 2 by first class mail and then sent notices 2 and 3 by special delivery.

    The tenant’s son mistakenly thought the notices sent by first class post were duplicates of the notices sent by special delivery, so only sent one set to his father’s solicitors.


    https://www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/exclusive-solicitor-preaches-ethics-after-serving-suspension-tricking-pensioner

    It’s hardly news that lawyers have no ethics.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 381
    Wright Hassell are well named. Here's a classic for all those who think they know how courts work.

    https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/uksc-2016-0136
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,190

    Omnium said:

    Does anyone have any suggestions for an up market breakfast pre-8am in central London? (My default is the Wolesley, but I'd not mind trying somewhere else)

    (As the thread is on class I should I guess point out that this is for my birthday, and thus I'm down a peg to start!)

    We need to know what class you are first......
    First class, but don't call me first.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,104
    Carnyx said:
    There's a children's playground just beyond our back fence. Aimed at under 8 year olds. It rather pleasant to hear the children enjoying the swings and slides on a summer afternoon.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,645

    Is there a leadership election on?

    https://x.com/gbnews/status/1887863894493802632

    Furious residents of Britain's second biggest city tell @RobertJenrick they are sick of their areas being trashed while the clean up can take weeks.

    Fair play to Jenrick, he actually comes across as normal in that. Looks horrific, how can people live like this?
    The Conservatives crashed the car, they are now surveying the wreckage and asking "who crashed this car?"
    Labour, on the other hand, are quite determined to crash it so badly it is completely written off. Only once that has been achieved can they perhaps sell it to a foreign country for scrap
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,883

    O/T I couldn't really care less whether Toolmakerson is middle class or working class (whatever either of those ridiculous labels mean). What I do care about is that he and his hopeless CoE are fucking up the economy because they do not understand the first thing about business. You can be from any background to understand business, and also from any background to be totally clueless, such as Keir From HR and Rachel From Customer Complaints.

    Is "Keir From HR" one that you yourself have coined, Nigel?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,662
    edited February 7
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Trump’s going to be over the moon

    Trump hates anyone but him having the limelight

    Did you miss the quote this morning about the Presidency being a TV show where he has to vanquish an "enemy" every single day?

    @gardnerakayla

    President Trump says he will sign an executive order "ending the ridiculous Biden push for Paper Straws."
    I wonder what's going to happen with stuff that can't be done by signing executive orders? Improving the economy, controlling the deficit, combatting climate change, ending the Ukraine war, diplomacy in the Middle East, managing the relationship with China, all of this sort of thing?
    Don't be ridiculous. All the things you mention can easily be done by Executive Order.
    For example, any day now I expect Trump to issue one saying "Ukraine and Russia must stop fighting", followed by ones saying "The USA owns Gaza" and "Xi should shut the fuck up". Easy.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,687
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Does anyone have any suggestions for an up market breakfast pre-8am in central London? (My default is the Wolesley, but I'd not mind trying somewhere else)

    (As the thread is on class I should I guess point out that this is for my birthday, and thus I'm down a peg to start!)

    We need to know what class you are first......
    First class, but don't call me first.
    In which case not for me to answer, I know my place....
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,645
    kinabalu said:

    O/T I couldn't really care less whether Toolmakerson is middle class or working class (whatever either of those ridiculous labels mean). What I do care about is that he and his hopeless CoE are fucking up the economy because they do not understand the first thing about business. You can be from any background to understand business, and also from any background to be totally clueless, such as Keir From HR and Rachel From Customer Complaints.

    Is "Keir From HR" one that you yourself have coined, Nigel?
    I think it was sort of coined by one of his colleagues. Someone I assume who might not be asked to explain by BJO.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,994
    edited February 7
    Omnium said:

    Does anyone have any suggestions for an up market breakfast pre-8am in central London? (My default is the Wolesley, but I'd not mind trying somewhere else)

    (As the thread is on class I should I guess point out that this is for my birthday, and thus I'm down a peg to start!)

    Go next door to The Ritz.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,190

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Does anyone have any suggestions for an up market breakfast pre-8am in central London? (My default is the Wolesley, but I'd not mind trying somewhere else)

    (As the thread is on class I should I guess point out that this is for my birthday, and thus I'm down a peg to start!)

    We need to know what class you are first......
    First class, but don't call me first.
    In which case not for me to answer, I know my place....
    You'd see a man starve! On his birthday!
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,977
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Trump’s going to be over the moon

    Trump hates anyone but him having the limelight

    Did you miss the quote this morning about the Presidency being a TV show where he has to vanquish an "enemy" every single day?

    @gardnerakayla

    President Trump says he will sign an executive order "ending the ridiculous Biden push for Paper Straws."
    I wonder what's going to happen with stuff that can't be done by signing executive orders? Improving the economy, controlling the deficit, combatting climate change, ending the Ukraine war, diplomacy in the Middle East, managing the relationship with China, all of this sort of thing?
    ... especially as he's against doing some of those.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,190
    edited February 7

    Omnium said:

    Does anyone have any suggestions for an up market breakfast pre-8am in central London? (My default is the Wolesley, but I'd not mind trying somewhere else)

    (As the thread is on class I should I guess point out that this is for my birthday, and thus I'm down a peg to start!)

    Go next door to The Ritz.
    Ah - that's a good idea.

    Edit: and would be good if they were open at proper breakfast hours. Lawyers!
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,559

    Is there a leadership election on?

    https://x.com/gbnews/status/1887863894493802632

    Furious residents of Britain's second biggest city tell @RobertJenrick they are sick of their areas being trashed while the clean up can take weeks.

    Fair play to Jenrick, he actually comes across as normal in that. Looks horrific, how can people live like this?
    What choice do they have. It’s a world apart from what most people here would know. They just look down on people in these areas for voting the wrong way.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,645

    kinabalu said:

    O/T I couldn't really care less whether Toolmakerson is middle class or working class (whatever either of those ridiculous labels mean). What I do care about is that he and his hopeless CoE are fucking up the economy because they do not understand the first thing about business. You can be from any background to understand business, and also from any background to be totally clueless, such as Keir From HR and Rachel From Customer Complaints.

    Is "Keir From HR" one that you yourself have coined, Nigel?
    I think it was sort of coined by one of his colleagues. Someone I assume who might not be asked to explain by BJO.
    ... I believe it was because he was described (very accurately) by said colleague as "not a leader" and more like a middle ranking HR Manager. Personally I think of him as more like a Pythonesque stereotype of a middle ranking Chartered Accountant.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,559

    kinabalu said:

    O/T I couldn't really care less whether Toolmakerson is middle class or working class (whatever either of those ridiculous labels mean). What I do care about is that he and his hopeless CoE are fucking up the economy because they do not understand the first thing about business. You can be from any background to understand business, and also from any background to be totally clueless, such as Keir From HR and Rachel From Customer Complaints.

    Is "Keir From HR" one that you yourself have coined, Nigel?
    I think it was sort of coined by one of his colleagues. Someone I assume who might not be asked to explain by BJO.
    For fear of triggering our resident licker of the proverbial I quite like Leon’s Skyr Toolmakersson. It works on a couple of levels.

    Wouldn’t be too sniffy at his dad being a toolmaker. I’ve worked with many in the past and toolmakers who run their own business are always self made and come up from the shop floor.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,883

    Is there a leadership election on?

    https://x.com/gbnews/status/1887863894493802632

    Furious residents of Britain's second biggest city tell @RobertJenrick they are sick of their areas being trashed while the clean up can take weeks.

    Fair play to Jenrick, he actually comes across as normal in that. Looks horrific, how can people live like this?
    The Conservatives crashed the car, they are now surveying the wreckage and asking "who crashed this car?"
    Yes of course. All Birmingham's many ills, including fly-tipping are entirely down to the Conservatives and nothing to do with the Labour run council who have been in control for the last 13 years.

    At some point, Labour and their supporters will have to take some responsibility. I understand it will be hard for you.
    There's been a prolonged squeeze on local government funding courtesy of the Conservatives. This must be factored into any allocation of blame model. It won't generate credible output otherwise.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,559
    Mental note. Why book a meal out in Durham on a Friday in Feb where they have took my card to secure it and then the weather turns out to be bloody freezing.

    Like David Tennant in his last Dr Who, I don’t want to go.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,687
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Does anyone have any suggestions for an up market breakfast pre-8am in central London? (My default is the Wolesley, but I'd not mind trying somewhere else)

    (As the thread is on class I should I guess point out that this is for my birthday, and thus I'm down a peg to start!)

    We need to know what class you are first......
    First class, but don't call me first.
    In which case not for me to answer, I know my place....
    You'd see a man starve! On his birthday!
    Perhaps not upmarket enough but Brother Marcus Covent Garden or Breakfast Club Seven Dials will pleasantly prevent any starvation.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,559
    kinabalu said:

    Is there a leadership election on?

    https://x.com/gbnews/status/1887863894493802632

    Furious residents of Britain's second biggest city tell @RobertJenrick they are sick of their areas being trashed while the clean up can take weeks.

    Fair play to Jenrick, he actually comes across as normal in that. Looks horrific, how can people live like this?
    The Conservatives crashed the car, they are now surveying the wreckage and asking "who crashed this car?"
    Yes of course. All Birmingham's many ills, including fly-tipping are entirely down to the Conservatives and nothing to do with the Labour run council who have been in control for the last 13 years.

    At some point, Labour and their supporters will have to take some responsibility. I understand it will be hard for you.
    There's been a prolonged squeeze on local government funding courtesy of the Conservatives. This must be factored into any allocation of blame model. It won't generate credible output otherwise.
    No, Brum like other places like Woking, Thurrock and Nottingham is nothing to do with the national govt and everything to do with inept local govt management and the residents of those places should pay extra as a consequence of their poor electoral choices. FAFO so,to speak.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,955

    Is there a leadership election on?

    https://x.com/gbnews/status/1887863894493802632

    Furious residents of Britain's second biggest city tell @RobertJenrick they are sick of their areas being trashed while the clean up can take weeks.

    Fair play to Jenrick, he actually comes across as normal in that. Looks horrific, how can people live like this?
    The Conservatives crashed the car, they are now surveying the wreckage and asking "who crashed this car?"
    Labour, on the other hand, are quite determined to crash it so badly it is completely written off. Only once that has been achieved can they perhaps sell it to a foreign country for scrap
    I mean the basic point is that agree/disagree, like, understand or hate Labour, they were left with no good options that weren't going to piss off someone. So of course people are pissed off.

    Labour will be judged on how well they can get the car out of the ditch and back on the road again. They might fail at that - and will be judged accordingly if they don't.

    But let's not pretend who put Britain in the ditch and why. Mostly because they are now Labour's strongest critics and want to blame them for the problems they themselves inflicted in order to avoid responsibility and indulge their fantasies.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,883

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Trump’s going to be over the moon

    Trump hates anyone but him having the limelight

    Did you miss the quote this morning about the Presidency being a TV show where he has to vanquish an "enemy" every single day?

    @gardnerakayla

    President Trump says he will sign an executive order "ending the ridiculous Biden push for Paper Straws."
    I wonder what's going to happen with stuff that can't be done by signing executive orders? Improving the economy, controlling the deficit, combatting climate change, ending the Ukraine war, diplomacy in the Middle East, managing the relationship with China, all of this sort of thing?
    ... especially as he's against doing some of those.
    Good point. Perhaps he can spend 4 years just sitting there signing executive orders then. Nice work if you can get it, I suppose.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,372
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    O/T I couldn't really care less whether Toolmakerson is middle class or working class (whatever either of those ridiculous labels mean). What I do care about is that he and his hopeless CoE are fucking up the economy because they do not understand the first thing about business. You can be from any background to understand business, and also from any background to be totally clueless, such as Keir From HR and Rachel From Customer Complaints.

    Is "Keir From HR" one that you yourself have coined, Nigel?
    I think it was sort of coined by one of his colleagues. Someone I assume who might not be asked to explain by BJO.
    For fear of triggering our resident licker of the proverbial I quite like Leon’s Skyr Toolmakersson. It works on a couple of levels.

    Wouldn’t be too sniffy at his dad being a toolmaker. I’ve worked with many in the past and toolmakers who run their own business are always self made and come up from the shop floor.
    I quite agree on the latter sentence. Toolmakers were always amongst the most skilled workers, so far as I can see. A long way from the ordinary production line worker. Probably still are, for all I know, though I'm not sure how that works in the CNC era.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,559

    Is there a leadership election on?

    https://x.com/gbnews/status/1887863894493802632

    Furious residents of Britain's second biggest city tell @RobertJenrick they are sick of their areas being trashed while the clean up can take weeks.

    Fair play to Jenrick, he actually comes across as normal in that. Looks horrific, how can people live like this?
    The Conservatives crashed the car, they are now surveying the wreckage and asking "who crashed this car?"
    Yes of course. All Birmingham's many ills, including fly-tipping are entirely down to the Conservatives and nothing to do with the Labour run council who have been in control for the last 13 years.

    At some point, Labour and their supporters will have to take some responsibility. I understand it will be hard for you.
    Brums problems are two fold. A massive overspend on an IT project and losing an equal pay claim then failing to settle when they had the chance.

    Little to do with the Tories at a national level.

    But people don’t let the facts get in the way and it is an easy get out for the local govt who fucked up to blame the national govt.

    BTW Tories are, in part to blame, in Brum. They held the council for a period of time, with the Lib Dems IIRC
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,419

    HYUFD said:

    Yes I agree, voters have elected toffs like Cameron, upper middle class lawyers like Blair, lower middle glass grocers daughters like Thatcher and working class sons of trapeze artists and tool makers and builders like Major and Starmer and Heath. They will elect based on a PM's record. Though the correct answer is Starmer is middle class now with a working class upbringing.

    All PMs have been middle class effectively though, though we have had working class Deputy PMs like Prescott and Rayner.

    While Cameron was borderline upper class we haven't had a genuine upper class peer of the realm as PM since Douglas Home, who was Earl of Home for 2 years before giving up his title and leaving the Lords to enter the Commons again as PM, you can only be upper class by birth or arguably marriage. Once the last remaining hereditary peers leave parliament there will be almost no upper class members of the Houses of Parliament left, except a handful of life peer appointed hereditaries like Viscount Thurso (who also managed to win a Commons seat once the ban on peers becoming MPs was lifted)

    MacDonald was definitely working class when Labour formed their first government in 1924. Less so when he formed the National one in 1931. Perhaps Callaghan too, although there's an argument he was lower-middle class by the time he was elected an MP.
    I read Callaghan's biography as part of the "20 Prime Ministers of the 20th Century series". Irish father, English mother, Dad died when he was nine leaving him and his Mum in near-poverty, Callaghan joined the Civil Service, became a Baptist Sunday School teacher, union official, joined the RN, served in the Far East in wartime, became a MP, worked his way up...all the way up. You don't get politicians like that these days. Now it's all PPE grads and [badwords]
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,645
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    O/T I couldn't really care less whether Toolmakerson is middle class or working class (whatever either of those ridiculous labels mean). What I do care about is that he and his hopeless CoE are fucking up the economy because they do not understand the first thing about business. You can be from any background to understand business, and also from any background to be totally clueless, such as Keir From HR and Rachel From Customer Complaints.

    Is "Keir From HR" one that you yourself have coined, Nigel?
    I think it was sort of coined by one of his colleagues. Someone I assume who might not be asked to explain by BJO.
    For fear of triggering our resident licker of the proverbial I quite like Leon’s Skyr Toolmakersson. It works on a couple of levels.

    Wouldn’t be too sniffy at his dad being a toolmaker. I’ve worked with many in the past and toolmakers who run their own business are always self made and come up from the shop floor.
    I agree it is quite good, although it fails in the sense that it actually sounds quite complimentary; Skyr Toolmakersson sounds like a warrior from The Last Kingdom, which is too ludicrous cool for Starmer.

    Whereas, Kier From HR conjures an image of a slightly sweaty overweight middle aged man in a suit and tie (admittedly normally one he ahs bought himself) with a nasally boring voice.

    Which do you think is the appropriate image?
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,559
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Trump’s going to be over the moon

    Trump hates anyone but him having the limelight

    Did you miss the quote this morning about the Presidency being a TV show where he has to vanquish an "enemy" every single day?

    @gardnerakayla

    President Trump says he will sign an executive order "ending the ridiculous Biden push for Paper Straws."
    I wonder what's going to happen with stuff that can't be done by signing executive orders? Improving the economy, controlling the deficit, combatting climate change, ending the Ukraine war, diplomacy in the Middle East, managing the relationship with China, all of this sort of thing?
    ... especially as he's against doing some of those.
    Good point. Perhaps he can spend 4 years just sitting there signing executive orders then. Nice work if you can get it, I suppose.
    Surely if we have a split between a Rep Presidency and a Dem house and/or senate in 2 years as will probably happen that will neuter him.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,190

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Does anyone have any suggestions for an up market breakfast pre-8am in central London? (My default is the Wolesley, but I'd not mind trying somewhere else)

    (As the thread is on class I should I guess point out that this is for my birthday, and thus I'm down a peg to start!)

    We need to know what class you are first......
    First class, but don't call me first.
    In which case not for me to answer, I know my place....
    You'd see a man starve! On his birthday!
    Perhaps not upmarket enough but Brother Marcus Covent Garden or Breakfast Club Seven Dials will pleasantly prevent any starvation.
    Thanks for the suggestions. Just a bit inconvenient and slightly not quite there. I'll have to investigate both of these though at some point on my morning rambles.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,922

    kinabalu said:

    O/T I couldn't really care less whether Toolmakerson is middle class or working class (whatever either of those ridiculous labels mean). What I do care about is that he and his hopeless CoE are fucking up the economy because they do not understand the first thing about business. You can be from any background to understand business, and also from any background to be totally clueless, such as Keir From HR and Rachel From Customer Complaints.

    Is "Keir From HR" one that you yourself have coined, Nigel?
    I think it was sort of coined by one of his colleagues. Someone I assume who might not be asked to explain by BJO.
    Keir the DLR driver, Shirley ?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,104
    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes I agree, voters have elected toffs like Cameron, upper middle class lawyers like Blair, lower middle glass grocers daughters like Thatcher and working class sons of trapeze artists and tool makers and builders like Major and Starmer and Heath. They will elect based on a PM's record. Though the correct answer is Starmer is middle class now with a working class upbringing.

    All PMs have been middle class effectively though, though we have had working class Deputy PMs like Prescott and Rayner.

    While Cameron was borderline upper class we haven't had a genuine upper class peer of the realm as PM since Douglas Home, who was Earl of Home for 2 years before giving up his title and leaving the Lords to enter the Commons again as PM, you can only be upper class by birth or arguably marriage. Once the last remaining hereditary peers leave parliament there will be almost no upper class members of the Houses of Parliament left, except a handful of life peer appointed hereditaries like Viscount Thurso (who also managed to win a Commons seat once the ban on peers becoming MPs was lifted)

    MacDonald was definitely working class when Labour formed their first government in 1924. Less so when he formed the National one in 1931. Perhaps Callaghan too, although there's an argument he was lower-middle class by the time he was elected an MP.
    I read Callaghan's biography as part of the "20 Prime Ministers of the 20th Century series". Irish father, English mother, Dad died when he was nine leaving him and his Mum in near-poverty, Callaghan joined the Civil Service, became a Baptist Sunday School teacher, union official, joined the RN, served in the Far East in wartime, became a MP, worked his way up...all the way up. You don't get politicians like that these days. Now it's all PPE grads and [badwords]
    John Major is an exception to that rule.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,883

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Trump’s going to be over the moon

    Trump hates anyone but him having the limelight

    Did you miss the quote this morning about the Presidency being a TV show where he has to vanquish an "enemy" every single day?

    @gardnerakayla

    President Trump says he will sign an executive order "ending the ridiculous Biden push for Paper Straws."
    I wonder what's going to happen with stuff that can't be done by signing executive orders? Improving the economy, controlling the deficit, combatting climate change, ending the Ukraine war, diplomacy in the Middle East, managing the relationship with China, all of this sort of thing?
    Don't be ridiculous. All the things you mention can easily be done by Executive Order.
    For example, any day now I expect Trump to issue one saying "Ukraine and Russia must stop fighting", followed by ones saying "The USA owns Gaza" and "Xi should shut the fuck up". Easy.
    Great big powerful man reordering the world with his sharpie. No wonder people swoon.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,559
    edited February 7

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    O/T I couldn't really care less whether Toolmakerson is middle class or working class (whatever either of those ridiculous labels mean). What I do care about is that he and his hopeless CoE are fucking up the economy because they do not understand the first thing about business. You can be from any background to understand business, and also from any background to be totally clueless, such as Keir From HR and Rachel From Customer Complaints.

    Is "Keir From HR" one that you yourself have coined, Nigel?
    I think it was sort of coined by one of his colleagues. Someone I assume who might not be asked to explain by BJO.
    For fear of triggering our resident licker of the proverbial I quite like Leon’s Skyr Toolmakersson. It works on a couple of levels.

    Wouldn’t be too sniffy at his dad being a toolmaker. I’ve worked with many in the past and toolmakers who run their own business are always self made and come up from the shop floor.
    I agree it is quite good, although it fails in the sense that it actually sounds quite complimentary; Skyr Toolmakersson sounds like a warrior from The Last Kingdom, which is too ludicrous cool for Starmer.

    Whereas, Kier From HR conjures an image of a slightly sweaty overweight middle aged man in a suit and tie (admittedly normally one he ahs bought himself) with a nasally boring voice.

    Which do you think is the appropriate image?

    However as Skyr is a brand of youghurt from Iceland that is why it works for me but as for your question .

    Definitely the latter 😂😂😂😂
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,372
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Is there a leadership election on?

    https://x.com/gbnews/status/1887863894493802632

    Furious residents of Britain's second biggest city tell @RobertJenrick they are sick of their areas being trashed while the clean up can take weeks.

    Fair play to Jenrick, he actually comes across as normal in that. Looks horrific, how can people live like this?
    The Conservatives crashed the car, they are now surveying the wreckage and asking "who crashed this car?"
    Yes of course. All Birmingham's many ills, including fly-tipping are entirely down to the Conservatives and nothing to do with the Labour run council who have been in control for the last 13 years.

    At some point, Labour and their supporters will have to take some responsibility. I understand it will be hard for you.
    There's been a prolonged squeeze on local government funding courtesy of the Conservatives. This must be factored into any allocation of blame model. It won't generate credible output otherwise.
    No, Brum like other places like Woking, Thurrock and Nottingham is nothing to do with the national govt and everything to do with inept local govt management and the residents of those places should pay extra as a consequence of their poor electoral choices. FAFO so,to speak.
    They are to do with national gmt - the same political parties. (I'm not sure that's great, but it can't be denied.)

    But yes, I was reading that Woking is a big problem. Can't merge Surrey till the deficit is sorted. But that's basically making the poor of the north (and all of us, really) pay for (in this case) a wealthy Tory council's moral hazard.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/feb/07/watchdog-to-investigate-two-former-figures-at-bankrupt-woking-council

    "However, writing off Woking’s debt would result in taxpayers from across the country being asked to shoulder the burden of a failed investment spree in the affluent home counties after years of austerity for many councils in poorer English regions."
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,645

    kinabalu said:

    O/T I couldn't really care less whether Toolmakerson is middle class or working class (whatever either of those ridiculous labels mean). What I do care about is that he and his hopeless CoE are fucking up the economy because they do not understand the first thing about business. You can be from any background to understand business, and also from any background to be totally clueless, such as Keir From HR and Rachel From Customer Complaints.

    Is "Keir From HR" one that you yourself have coined, Nigel?
    I think it was sort of coined by one of his colleagues. Someone I assume who might not be asked to explain by BJO.
    Keir the DLR driver, Shirley ?
    Haha, yes that one is good too.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,559
    Someone posted a fun fact on twitter earlier and it is a genuine one.

    Sir Kiers voice coach was once married to the legend that is Robin Askwith.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,168
    edited February 7
    FPT: I like the idea of draining the swamp -- but I'm not sure how it can be done at Mar-a-Lago, legally. Declare the place a "public nuisance", as can be done in some states? Use eminent domain to seize it?

    Suggestions are welcome.

    (When Trumpistas talk about draining the swamp, it cracks me up because I recognize so many swamp creatures around him -- and know about the instruction he received from Roy Cohn.)
This discussion has been closed.