Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Streeting’s little local difficulties could stop him succeeding Starmer – politicalbetting.com

12467

Comments

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,775

    Sean_F said:

    I've met Streeting through a mutual friend and I think he is absolutely brilliant, one of the few genuine stars in British politics right now. I really hope he can hold his seat because we need people like him.

    He does strike me as being quite impressive.
    He's a Cambridge man, the best of the best.
    He’s no Burgon..
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,446
    edited February 5
    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy481jwjljjo

    I think that Sam Kerr was the author of her own misfortune.

    It's hard not to conclude that they were pissed and behaved badly, and seem to be rather surprised that there were consequences to their actions.
    She sounds like an arsehole drunk who was outraged at not being believed, which I doubt is unique with footballers of any gender in that situation, though being an arsehole in itself should not be a crime.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,091

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
    Take Trump seriously but not literally and work out the possibilities from there.

    Can anyone tell us what is the best plan as yet from anyone with power but who isn't Trump?
    Stick with a 2-state solution. Put pressure on Israel to accept it. The US could do this if they wanted to.
    No, they couldn’t

    After October 7 there is no two state solution. It’s done

    So what’s next? The only world leader offering ANY future to the Palestinians is - irony of ironies - Donald Trump
    What future?

    He's offering them a forced relocation to the desert whilst providing the Israelis with more bombs. No doubt as soon as they move they will be bombed and once they settle they will be bombed. What choice?

    There was a Israeli spokeswoman on the WATO who's rhetoric was indistinguishable from Nazi pamphlets. And this is a spokeswoman. Imagine what is said behind the scenes. Hopefully the Arabs will now understand that America will always support Israeli aggression. And Israel will always want more.
    AIUI he wants them to go to Indonesia

    If Jakarta can be persuaded (that’s one of the world’s bigger ifs) that would be a great choice. Sunny, fertile, Muslim but quite relaxed, and in a booming part of the world

    Because, let’s face it, what is the alternative? After October 7 Israel will NEVER agree to a 2 state solution. It was already extremely unlikely Palestinians would be allowed to return to their homes pre 1947, now it is utterly impossible

    So what’s left? They will just sit there, in squalor and misery, in the rubble of Gaza, for the rest of time? That’s it? I doubt it. If I were Palestinian I would hate Jews so much I would try and do another October 7, eventually one of them will succeed, so we have another October 7, and this time Israel will kill 80,000 or 500,000 not 40,000, or maybe Israel will kill all of them, fuck knows but that is the future unless someone suggests a new and radically different solution
    I believe the cumulative death toll is closer to 500 000 than 40 000.

    You state everything as absolute and predetermined I think differently. Israel will do what the US requires of them and once Americans are no longer willing to fund endless atrocities these immutable ideas will change. You cannot bomb your neighbours and threaten a continent whilst living on a postage stamp.

    Israel relies on a mercurial superpower for most of their weapons and have a population of 10 million. They will have to compromise.
    Weren't we rather postage stamp-sized relatively in 1940s and didn't we need to rely on the US to do what was right. So what you suggest is not inevitable.
    We had 20 odd miles of moat and an empire. Israel is surrounded by places it has bombed and some concrete walls. You're a shouty military man do you really think they will ever be secure?
    "We had 20 odd miles of moat and an empire."

    Genuinely LOL.

    Do you suppose our moat would have protected us absent US involvement.

    The US wasn't secure on 9/11 and in Boston. We weren't secure from PIRA and latterly from IS-inspired events. Is Israel secure? Evidently not either as we have seen. But is it an existential threat - yes as far as Hamas and plenty of "ordinary decent Palestinians" are concerned. But practically no. They aren't going anywhere any time soon.

    Unlike it seems perhaps according to The Donald's latest idea, those selfsame Palestinians.
    Our 'moat' did protect us. Hitler abandoned Operation Sea Lion after losing the Battle of Britain ... hat-tip Polish and Czechoslovak pilots ..... and turned his face East. With eventually fatal results.
    Arguably the Battle of Britain was beside the point. The Royal Navy would have decimated any invasion fleet, even with the Luftwaffe ascendant.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,569

    Pagan2 said:

    Who is everyone's pick for next Labour leader? I think Yvette Cooper.

    What has she ever done except for the shambles that was hips.....why would you want such an asinine person in charge when the only thing she championed was a complete idiocy?
    At least when buying a house it meant we had something to rely on. Hips dont lie.
    She should replicate it with KIPS. Each knife would come with an information pack about the specific risks associated with it.
    Can't wait for her to get round to NIPS...

    (The Northern Ireland Police Service would have been so cool if that had been how they were branded....)
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,208
    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    The Metropolitan Police has declined to investigate Sir Keir Starmer’s in person meeting with his voice coach during Covid lockdown.

    On Wednesday, Kemi Badenoch, the Tory leader, said police should look into whether a visit by Leonie Mellinger to Labour’s London headquarters on Christmas Eve in 2020 had broken any Covid rules.

    But a Met Police spokesman said the force was barred from any investigations of possible Covid breaches that had happened more than three years ago.

    “We can confirm we have received a report,” the spokesman said. “The specific legislation that would be used by police forces dealing with alleged offences during Covid has a three-year deadline for initiating proceedings. As this alleged incident falls outside this timeframe, no action will be taken.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/02/05/badenoch-police-must-probe-starmer-meeting-voice-coach/

    Thoughts and prayers for Hyufd.
    You merely have to type his voice coaches name into Google, and you can see her tits. Just saying.
    Hyufd has tits?

    They weren't obvious when I knew him at uni...
    And where did you study? I'm mainly asking so that I can reinforce my prejudices. Bad answers would include Oxford, and I'm off the bridge if you say Sussex.
    The greatest university in the world.

    Of course.

    Aberystwyth.
    Phew. Would you mind at all if I suggested that you seem a bit smarter than (without any actual knowledge) I take to be the average Aberystwythian? What happened?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,569

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
    Take Trump seriously but not literally and work out the possibilities from there.

    Can anyone tell us what is the best plan as yet from anyone with power but who isn't Trump?
    Stick with a 2-state solution. Put pressure on Israel to accept it. The US could do this if they wanted to.
    No, they couldn’t

    After October 7 there is no two state solution. It’s done

    So what’s next? The only world leader offering ANY future to the Palestinians is - irony of ironies - Donald Trump
    What future?

    He's offering them a forced relocation to the desert whilst providing the Israelis with more bombs. No doubt as soon as they move they will be bombed and once they settle they will be bombed. What choice?

    There was a Israeli spokeswoman on the WATO who's rhetoric was indistinguishable from Nazi pamphlets. And this is a spokeswoman. Imagine what is said behind the scenes. Hopefully the Arabs will now understand that America will always support Israeli aggression. And Israel will always want more.
    AIUI he wants them to go to Indonesia

    If Jakarta can be persuaded (that’s one of the world’s bigger ifs) that would be a great choice. Sunny, fertile, Muslim but quite relaxed, and in a booming part of the world

    Because, let’s face it, what is the alternative? After October 7 Israel will NEVER agree to a 2 state solution. It was already extremely unlikely Palestinians would be allowed to return to their homes pre 1947, now it is utterly impossible

    So what’s left? They will just sit there, in squalor and misery, in the rubble of Gaza, for the rest of time? That’s it? I doubt it. If I were Palestinian I would hate Jews so much I would try and do another October 7, eventually one of them will succeed, so we have another October 7, and this time Israel will kill 80,000 or 500,000 not 40,000, or maybe Israel will kill all of them, fuck knows but that is the future unless someone suggests a new and radically different solution
    I believe the cumulative death toll is closer to 500 000 than 40 000.

    You state everything as absolute and predetermined I think differently. Israel will do what the US requires of them and once Americans are no longer willing to fund endless atrocities these immutable ideas will change. You cannot bomb your neighbours and threaten a continent whilst living on a postage stamp.

    Israel relies on a mercurial superpower for most of their weapons and have a population of 10 million. They will have to compromise.
    Weren't we rather postage stamp-sized relatively in 1940s and didn't we need to rely on the US to do what was right. So what you suggest is not inevitable.
    We had 20 odd miles of moat and an empire. Israel is surrounded by places it has bombed and some concrete walls. You're a shouty military man do you really think they will ever be secure?
    "We had 20 odd miles of moat and an empire."

    Genuinely LOL.

    Do you suppose our moat would have protected us absent US involvement.

    The US wasn't secure on 9/11 and in Boston. We weren't secure from PIRA and latterly from IS-inspired events. Is Israel secure? Evidently not either as we have seen. But is it an existential threat - yes as far as Hamas and plenty of "ordinary decent Palestinians" are concerned. But practically no. They aren't going anywhere any time soon.

    Unlike it seems perhaps according to The Donald's latest idea, those selfsame Palestinians.
    Our 'moat' did protect us. Hitler abandoned Operation Sea Lion after losing the Battle of Britain ... hat-tip Polish and Czechoslovak pilots ..... and turned his face East. With eventually fatal results.
    Arguably the Battle of Britain was beside the point. The Royal Navy would have decimated any invasion fleet, even with the Luftwaffe ascendant.
    9 out of 10 getting through would have still been a problem...
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,214

    Good Lord Sir Kier got his arse handed to him at PMQs. Kemi had a few adrenaliney jitters but overall she had a gaping open goal and slammed it in. The man was an incomprehensible blubbering wreck.

    Not that I care, but seeing as you have a fetish for correcting everyone else's posts, it is Keir not Kier.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,446
    Taz said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    geoffw said:

    Yvette Cooper's proposal to ban pointy kitchen knives was mooted twenty years ago in the BMJ and supported by chef Anthony Worral Thompson
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7508404.stm

    All it will achieve is more expensive kitchen knives as production will have to be adapted for those blades destined for UK market compared to rest of the world.
    No it won’t.
    Non pointy knives are already quite common.
    So let’s tackle the symptom but not the cause.
    Pointy kitchen knives are a symptom?
    He means the reason people want to kill each other...if they don't use knives there are a million ways to do it unless you want to ban for example cricket bats too
    Quite, people will kill each other if they want to. As Malmesbury points out in prison, where knives are tightly regulated, prisoners make their own. Crims are very resourceful when it comes to exacting whatever retribution they want.

    There is nothing there at all to tackle why it happens and if people think a few youth clubs and ping pong tables are the solution they’re dreaming.
    I cannot work out if politicians and celebrities suggesting this kind of thing realise it trivialises human nature and criminality, but they are reaching for something easy to sell to electors, or if they believe it to be true.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,901
    biggles said:

    When we ban pointy knives, and it doesn’t work, will we come for the screwdrivers? How will we stop people breaking knives to get a point? What about good old fashioned toothbrush shivs? Will we ban bottles?

    Don’t tell them about cars - if they find out they are responsible for around 7 times more deaths in the UK we’re all walking and Dura Ace will have nothing to live for.

  • TazTaz Posts: 16,604
    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    geoffw said:

    Yvette Cooper's proposal to ban pointy kitchen knives was mooted twenty years ago in the BMJ and supported by chef Anthony Worral Thompson
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7508404.stm

    All it will achieve is more expensive kitchen knives as production will have to be adapted for those blades destined for UK market compared to rest of the world.
    No it won’t.
    Non pointy knives are already quite common.
    So let’s tackle the symptom but not the cause.
    Pointy kitchen knives are a symptom?
    He means the reason people want to kill each other...if they don't use knives there are a million ways to do it unless you want to ban for example cricket bats too
    Oh yes, I see. The "tools" then. We're tackling the tools not the root cause.
    A tool. Singular. There are many tools used to exact vengeance and take a life. Knives will simply be supplanted by something else. These people have no regard for others lives do you seriously think a half wit bannjng the sale of knives with pointed ends will stop Stan the Stabber or Dan the Daggerman from Dagenham getting a tool to exact brutal justice against someone who dissed them.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,569
    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy481jwjljjo

    I think that Sam Kerr was the author of her own misfortune.

    It's hard not to conclude that they were pissed and behaved badly, and seem to be rather surprised that there were consequences to their actions.
    She sounds like an arsehole drunk who was outraged at not being believed, which I doubt is unique with footballers of any gender in that situation, though being an arsehole in itself should not be a crime.
    If being an arsehole were a crime...

    fuck me, there'd be some by-elections...
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,618
    edited February 5

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
    Take Trump seriously but not literally and work out the possibilities from there.

    Can anyone tell us what is the best plan as yet from anyone with power but who isn't Trump?
    Stick with a 2-state solution. Put pressure on Israel to accept it. The US could do this if they wanted to.
    No, they couldn’t

    After October 7 there is no two state solution. It’s done

    So what’s next? The only world leader offering ANY future to the Palestinians is - irony of ironies - Donald Trump
    What future?

    He's offering them a forced relocation to the desert whilst providing the Israelis with more bombs. No doubt as soon as they move they will be bombed and once they settle they will be bombed. What choice?

    There was a Israeli spokeswoman on the WATO who's rhetoric was indistinguishable from Nazi pamphlets. And this is a spokeswoman. Imagine what is said behind the scenes. Hopefully the Arabs will now understand that America will always support Israeli aggression. And Israel will always want more.
    AIUI he wants them to go to Indonesia

    If Jakarta can be persuaded (that’s one of the world’s bigger ifs) that would be a great choice. Sunny, fertile, Muslim but quite relaxed, and in a booming part of the world

    Because, let’s face it, what is the alternative? After October 7 Israel will NEVER agree to a 2 state solution. It was already extremely unlikely Palestinians would be allowed to return to their homes pre 1947, now it is utterly impossible

    So what’s left? They will just sit there, in squalor and misery, in the rubble of Gaza, for the rest of time? That’s it? I doubt it. If I were Palestinian I would hate Jews so much I would try and do another October 7, eventually one of them will succeed, so we have another October 7, and this time Israel will kill 80,000 or 500,000 not 40,000, or maybe Israel will kill all of them, fuck knows but that is the future unless someone suggests a new and radically different solution
    I believe the cumulative death toll is closer to 500 000 than 40 000.

    You state everything as absolute and predetermined I think differently. Israel will do what the US requires of them and once Americans are no longer willing to fund endless atrocities these immutable ideas will change. You cannot bomb your neighbours and threaten a continent whilst living on a postage stamp.

    Israel relies on a mercurial superpower for most of their weapons and have a population of 10 million. They will have to compromise.
    Weren't we rather postage stamp-sized relatively in 1940s and didn't we need to rely on the US to do what was right. So what you suggest is not inevitable.
    We had 20 odd miles of moat and an empire. Israel is surrounded by places it has bombed and some concrete walls. You're a shouty military man do you really think they will ever be secure?
    "We had 20 odd miles of moat and an empire."

    Genuinely LOL.

    Do you suppose our moat would have protected us absent US involvement.

    The US wasn't secure on 9/11 and in Boston. We weren't secure from PIRA and latterly from IS-inspired events. Is Israel secure? Evidently not either as we have seen. But is it an existential threat - yes as far as Hamas and plenty of "ordinary decent Palestinians" are concerned. But practically no. They aren't going anywhere any time soon.

    Unlike it seems perhaps according to The Donald's latest idea, those selfsame Palestinians.
    Our 'moat' did protect us. Hitler abandoned Operation Sea Lion after losing the Battle of Britain ... hat-tip Polish and Czechoslovak pilots ..... and turned his face East. With eventually fatal results.
    Arguably the Battle of Britain was beside the point. The Royal Navy would have decimated any invasion fleet, even with the Luftwaffe ascendant.
    Exactly this. Even with the U.S. staying out of the war in 1942, Hitler would have had to give up on us, especially as he got tied up in the East.

    It’s a toss up whether we could have won in North Africa alone and kept the oil flowing, but I assume no U.S. declaration of war means no big Japanese push so we could have reinforced.

    In the end though, Germany/Japan would have done something to bring the yanks in. It was inevitable. And once the Allies were all in, we were always going to win (knowing what we know now - wasn’t as obvious then).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,446
    edited February 5

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy481jwjljjo

    I think that Sam Kerr was the author of her own misfortune.

    It's hard not to conclude that they were pissed and behaved badly, and seem to be rather surprised that there were consequences to their actions.
    She sounds like an arsehole drunk who was outraged at not being believed, which I doubt is unique with footballers of any gender in that situation, though being an arsehole in itself should not be a crime.
    If being an arsehole were a crime...

    fuck me, there'd be some by-elections...
    I have no doubt, however, that many people think being an arsehole is, or should be, a crime.

    Sadly, in some cases, they may well be right!
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,618
    boulay said:

    biggles said:

    When we ban pointy knives, and it doesn’t work, will we come for the screwdrivers? How will we stop people breaking knives to get a point? What about good old fashioned toothbrush shivs? Will we ban bottles?

    Don’t tell them about cars - if they find out they are responsible for around 7 times more deaths in the UK we’re all walking and Dura Ace will have nothing to live for.

    And food. Think about all those choking incidents that could be avoided through compulsory baby food.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,604
    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    geoffw said:

    Yvette Cooper's proposal to ban pointy kitchen knives was mooted twenty years ago in the BMJ and supported by chef Anthony Worral Thompson
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7508404.stm

    All it will achieve is more expensive kitchen knives as production will have to be adapted for those blades destined for UK market compared to rest of the world.
    No it won’t.
    Non pointy knives are already quite common.
    So let’s tackle the symptom but not the cause.
    Pointy kitchen knives are a symptom?
    He means the reason people want to kill each other...if they don't use knives there are a million ways to do it unless you want to ban for example cricket bats too
    Quite, people will kill each other if they want to. As Malmesbury points out in prison, where knives are tightly regulated, prisoners make their own. Crims are very resourceful when it comes to exacting whatever retribution they want.

    There is nothing there at all to tackle why it happens and if people think a few youth clubs and ping pong tables are the solution they’re dreaming.
    I cannot work out if politicians and celebrities suggesting this kind of thing realise it trivialises human nature and criminality, but they are reaching for something easy to sell to electors, or if they believe it to be true.
    I think it starts out as the former and migrates to the latter over time as they become invested in it.
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,569
    HYUFD said:

    tpfkar said:

    I was actually in Streeting's year at Selwyn.

    It was clear how ambitious he was, right from the first week there I was introduced to a "future prime minister." It was no surprise he climbed up the political ladder straight into student union activity very quickly.

    We hardly spent any time together though. After I didn't get elected to the college student union (JCR) I didn't really spend any time on anything political/activism and only became involved much later. I don't think there are any photos of us together (apart from the year group photo at start and end of studies) although this was before the age of selfies and instagrammable breakfasts.

    He was always a bit too slimy and ambitious for my liking, but he had a lot about him even then, and no surprises he's become a significant national figure.

    His best hope is Starmer wins most seats next time but loses his majority, the Tories or Reform build up a significant poll lead and Labour turn to Streeting in a panic to try and stay in office and win over centrist swing voters they have lost to the Conservatives and LDs since the general election.

    Labour voters who have gone Reform or Green probably aren't coming back anytime soon
    Maybe, maybe not. I think he's too involved with the Starmer project to benefit from it failing.
    If he can become the saviour of the NHS, turning around years of Tory decay, then the Labour party will see him as PM material - and Starmer will be a long way to getting re-elected.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,911
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    geoffw said:

    Yvette Cooper's proposal to ban pointy kitchen knives was mooted twenty years ago in the BMJ and supported by chef Anthony Worral Thompson
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7508404.stm

    All it will achieve is more expensive kitchen knives as production will have to be adapted for those blades destined for UK market compared to rest of the world.
    No it won’t.
    Non pointy knives are already quite common.
    So let’s tackle the symptom but not the cause.
    Pointy kitchen knives are a symptom?
    He means the reason people want to kill each other...if they don't use knives there are a million ways to do it unless you want to ban for example cricket bats too
    Oh yes, I see. The "tools" then. We're tackling the tools not the root cause.
    A tool. Singular. There are many tools used to exact vengeance and take a life. Knives will simply be supplanted by something else. These people have no regard for others lives do you seriously think a half wit bannjng the sale of knives with pointed ends will stop Stan the Stabber or Dan the Daggerman from Dagenham getting a tool to exact brutal justice against someone who dissed them.
    No, it's not quite gun control in America, is it.

    Still, I wouldn't set myself quite so implacably against it. It's an Idris Elba suggestion and he's ... well he's Idris Elba.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,056

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
    Take Trump seriously but not literally and work out the possibilities from there.

    Can anyone tell us what is the best plan as yet from anyone with power but who isn't Trump?
    Stick with a 2-state solution. Put pressure on Israel to accept it. The US could do this if they wanted to.
    No, they couldn’t

    After October 7 there is no two state solution. It’s done

    So what’s next? The only world leader offering ANY future to the Palestinians is - irony of ironies - Donald Trump
    What future?

    He's offering them a forced relocation to the desert whilst providing the Israelis with more bombs. No doubt as soon as they move they will be bombed and once they settle they will be bombed. What choice?

    There was a Israeli spokeswoman on the WATO who's rhetoric was indistinguishable from Nazi pamphlets. And this is a spokeswoman. Imagine what is said behind the scenes. Hopefully the Arabs will now understand that America will always support Israeli aggression. And Israel will always want more.
    AIUI he wants them to go to Indonesia

    If Jakarta can be persuaded (that’s one of the world’s bigger ifs) that would be a great choice. Sunny, fertile, Muslim but quite relaxed, and in a booming part of the world

    Because, let’s face it, what is the alternative? After October 7 Israel will NEVER agree to a 2 state solution. It was already extremely unlikely Palestinians would be allowed to return to their homes pre 1947, now it is utterly impossible

    So what’s left? They will just sit there, in squalor and misery, in the rubble of Gaza, for the rest of time? That’s it? I doubt it. If I were Palestinian I would hate Jews so much I would try and do another October 7, eventually one of them will succeed, so we have another October 7, and this time Israel will kill 80,000 or 500,000 not 40,000, or maybe Israel will kill all of them, fuck knows but that is the future unless someone suggests a new and radically different solution
    I believe the cumulative death toll is closer to 500 000 than 40 000.

    You state everything as absolute and predetermined I think differently. Israel will do what the US requires of them and once Americans are no longer willing to fund endless atrocities these immutable ideas will change. You cannot bomb your neighbours and threaten a continent whilst living on a postage stamp.

    Israel relies on a mercurial superpower for most of their weapons and have a population of 10 million. They will have to compromise.
    Weren't we rather postage stamp-sized relatively in 1940s and didn't we need to rely on the US to do what was right. So what you suggest is not inevitable.
    We had 20 odd miles of moat and an empire. Israel is surrounded by places it has bombed and some concrete walls. You're a shouty military man do you really think they will ever be secure?
    "We had 20 odd miles of moat and an empire."

    Genuinely LOL.

    Do you suppose our moat would have protected us absent US involvement.

    The US wasn't secure on 9/11 and in Boston. We weren't secure from PIRA and latterly from IS-inspired events. Is Israel secure? Evidently not either as we have seen. But is it an existential threat - yes as far as Hamas and plenty of "ordinary decent Palestinians" are concerned. But practically no. They aren't going anywhere any time soon.

    Unlike it seems perhaps according to The Donald's latest idea, those selfsame Palestinians.
    Our 'moat' did protect us. Hitler abandoned Operation Sea Lion after losing the Battle of Britain ... hat-tip Polish and Czechoslovak pilots ..... and turned his face East. With eventually fatal results.
    Arguably the Battle of Britain was beside the point. The Royal Navy would have decimated any invasion fleet, even with the Luftwaffe ascendant.
    9 out of 10 getting through would have still been a problem...
    We definitely need words for reducing to 10%, 20% and so on of the original. Sticking with Latin, that would be nonagintemated, octogintemated etc.?
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,604
    edited February 5
    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy481jwjljjo

    I think that Sam Kerr was the author of her own misfortune.

    It's hard not to conclude that they were pissed and behaved badly, and seem to be rather surprised that there were consequences to their actions.
    And play the victim after their bad behaviour has come to light.

    She’s even claiming she was treated differently due to her skin colour.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,618
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy481jwjljjo

    I think that Sam Kerr was the author of her own misfortune.

    It's hard not to conclude that they were pissed and behaved badly, and seem to be rather surprised that there were consequences to their actions.
    She sounds like an arsehole drunk who was outraged at not being believed, which I doubt is unique with footballers of any gender in that situation, though being an arsehole in itself should not be a crime.
    If being an arsehole were a crime...

    fuck me, there'd be some by-elections...
    I have no doubt, however, that many people think being an arsehole is, or should be, a crime.

    Sadly, in some cases, they may well be right!
    I am ok with it being a crime, provided I am the arbiter of being an arsehole.

    Don’t thank me for holding the door? Prison.

    Play music out loud on the train? Prison.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,850
    edited February 5

    Good Lord Sir Kier got his arse handed to him at PMQs. Kemi had a few adrenaliney jitters but overall she had a gaping open goal and slammed it in. The man was an incomprehensible blubbering wreck.

    You should be called JokeGuy, lucky. If her Lazy Excellence hadn’t skipped security briefings, should might have landed a punch.

    But Farage was very interesting. Not banging on about traitors giving the empire away, or boat crossings on porous borders, or lack of homes due to 1M each year in new migrants, he linked pensioners empty pockets as a reason to abandon Labour for Reform, in the way the Conservative front bench can’t do just yet as they were in control so long till recently so are linked to the financial pain.

    The Pensioner generation still turn out for Tory’s, low lying fruit for Farage IMO if he represents putting pounds back in their pockets.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,569
    sarissa said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
    Take Trump seriously but not literally and work out the possibilities from there.

    Can anyone tell us what is the best plan as yet from anyone with power but who isn't Trump?
    Stick with a 2-state solution. Put pressure on Israel to accept it. The US could do this if they wanted to.
    No, they couldn’t

    After October 7 there is no two state solution. It’s done

    So what’s next? The only world leader offering ANY future to the Palestinians is - irony of ironies - Donald Trump
    What future?

    He's offering them a forced relocation to the desert whilst providing the Israelis with more bombs. No doubt as soon as they move they will be bombed and once they settle they will be bombed. What choice?

    There was a Israeli spokeswoman on the WATO who's rhetoric was indistinguishable from Nazi pamphlets. And this is a spokeswoman. Imagine what is said behind the scenes. Hopefully the Arabs will now understand that America will always support Israeli aggression. And Israel will always want more.
    AIUI he wants them to go to Indonesia

    If Jakarta can be persuaded (that’s one of the world’s bigger ifs) that would be a great choice. Sunny, fertile, Muslim but quite relaxed, and in a booming part of the world

    Because, let’s face it, what is the alternative? After October 7 Israel will NEVER agree to a 2 state solution. It was already extremely unlikely Palestinians would be allowed to return to their homes pre 1947, now it is utterly impossible

    So what’s left? They will just sit there, in squalor and misery, in the rubble of Gaza, for the rest of time? That’s it? I doubt it. If I were Palestinian I would hate Jews so much I would try and do another October 7, eventually one of them will succeed, so we have another October 7, and this time Israel will kill 80,000 or 500,000 not 40,000, or maybe Israel will kill all of them, fuck knows but that is the future unless someone suggests a new and radically different solution
    I believe the cumulative death toll is closer to 500 000 than 40 000.

    You state everything as absolute and predetermined I think differently. Israel will do what the US requires of them and once Americans are no longer willing to fund endless atrocities these immutable ideas will change. You cannot bomb your neighbours and threaten a continent whilst living on a postage stamp.

    Israel relies on a mercurial superpower for most of their weapons and have a population of 10 million. They will have to compromise.
    Weren't we rather postage stamp-sized relatively in 1940s and didn't we need to rely on the US to do what was right. So what you suggest is not inevitable.
    We had 20 odd miles of moat and an empire. Israel is surrounded by places it has bombed and some concrete walls. You're a shouty military man do you really think they will ever be secure?
    "We had 20 odd miles of moat and an empire."

    Genuinely LOL.

    Do you suppose our moat would have protected us absent US involvement.

    The US wasn't secure on 9/11 and in Boston. We weren't secure from PIRA and latterly from IS-inspired events. Is Israel secure? Evidently not either as we have seen. But is it an existential threat - yes as far as Hamas and plenty of "ordinary decent Palestinians" are concerned. But practically no. They aren't going anywhere any time soon.

    Unlike it seems perhaps according to The Donald's latest idea, those selfsame Palestinians.
    Our 'moat' did protect us. Hitler abandoned Operation Sea Lion after losing the Battle of Britain ... hat-tip Polish and Czechoslovak pilots ..... and turned his face East. With eventually fatal results.
    Arguably the Battle of Britain was beside the point. The Royal Navy would have decimated any invasion fleet, even with the Luftwaffe ascendant.
    9 out of 10 getting through would have still been a problem...
    We definitely need words for reducing to 10%, 20% and so on of the original. Sticking with Latin, that would be nonagintemated, octogintemated etc.?
    The English translation is royally screwed, screwed....
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,604
    edited February 5
    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    geoffw said:

    Yvette Cooper's proposal to ban pointy kitchen knives was mooted twenty years ago in the BMJ and supported by chef Anthony Worral Thompson
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7508404.stm

    All it will achieve is more expensive kitchen knives as production will have to be adapted for those blades destined for UK market compared to rest of the world.
    No it won’t.
    Non pointy knives are already quite common.
    So let’s tackle the symptom but not the cause.
    Pointy kitchen knives are a symptom?
    He means the reason people want to kill each other...if they don't use knives there are a million ways to do it unless you want to ban for example cricket bats too
    Oh yes, I see. The "tools" then. We're tackling the tools not the root cause.
    A tool. Singular. There are many tools used to exact vengeance and take a life. Knives will simply be supplanted by something else. These people have no regard for others lives do you seriously think a half wit bannjng the sale of knives with pointed ends will stop Stan the Stabber or Dan the Daggerman from Dagenham getting a tool to exact brutal justice against someone who dissed them.
    No, it's not quite gun control in America, is it.

    Still, I wouldn't set myself quite so implacably against it. It's an Idris Elba suggestion and he's ... well he's Idris Elba.
    So what. Fuck Idris Elba if he comes up with bullshit ideas and expects to be given a free ride because he’s famous. Why should the opinion of a luvvie carry any weight. Let’s consult Laurence Llewelyn-Bowen on The Chagos Islands and see what Peter Cetera has to say on a free trade agreement with the USA.

    Stick to reading lines written for him.

    Where’s the proof it will work. It’s a knee jerk reaction.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,622
    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    The Metropolitan Police has declined to investigate Sir Keir Starmer’s in person meeting with his voice coach during Covid lockdown.

    On Wednesday, Kemi Badenoch, the Tory leader, said police should look into whether a visit by Leonie Mellinger to Labour’s London headquarters on Christmas Eve in 2020 had broken any Covid rules.

    But a Met Police spokesman said the force was barred from any investigations of possible Covid breaches that had happened more than three years ago.

    “We can confirm we have received a report,” the spokesman said. “The specific legislation that would be used by police forces dealing with alleged offences during Covid has a three-year deadline for initiating proceedings. As this alleged incident falls outside this timeframe, no action will be taken.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/02/05/badenoch-police-must-probe-starmer-meeting-voice-coach/

    Thoughts and prayers for Hyufd.
    You merely have to type his voice coaches name into Google, and you can see her tits. Just saying.
    Hyufd has tits?

    They weren't obvious when I knew him at uni...
    And where did you study? I'm mainly asking so that I can reinforce my prejudices. Bad answers would include Oxford, and I'm off the bridge if you say Sussex.
    The greatest university in the world.

    Of course.

    Aberystwyth.
    Phew. Would you mind at all if I suggested that you seem a bit smarter than (without any actual knowledge) I take to be the average Aberystwythian? What happened?
    Presumably you just met some quite dim ones, rather than brilliant ones like me, Sandpit, Hyu...umm, hold on...

    (Actually, Hyufd is pretty bright, so that's not fair.)

    Seriously, Aberystwth is uneven in quality, but one very fine department - better than any other in the country while I was there - was the Department of International Politics, which was the oldest and most prestigious in Europe. I gather it's gone downhill since due to several botched reorganisations, as has, for example, the formerly world renowned IGER, but it was great then.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,793
    kjh said:

    Good Lord Sir Kier got his arse handed to him at PMQs. Kemi had a few adrenaliney jitters but overall she had a gaping open goal and slammed it in. The man was an incomprehensible blubbering wreck.

    Not that I care, but seeing as you have a fetish for correcting everyone else's posts, it is Keir not Kier.
    I know. I do it to annoy Anabobazina. Though I haven't seen him around these parts of late.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,622

    kjh said:

    Good Lord Sir Kier got his arse handed to him at PMQs. Kemi had a few adrenaliney jitters but overall she had a gaping open goal and slammed it in. The man was an incomprehensible blubbering wreck.

    Not that I care, but seeing as you have a fetish for correcting everyone else's posts, it is Keir not Kier.
    I know. I do it to annoy Anabobazina. Though I haven't seen him around these parts of late.
    Somebody told him it was a cash fee to post...
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,816
    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    geoffw said:

    Yvette Cooper's proposal to ban pointy kitchen knives was mooted twenty years ago in the BMJ and supported by chef Anthony Worral Thompson
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7508404.stm

    All it will achieve is more expensive kitchen knives as production will have to be adapted for those blades destined for UK market compared to rest of the world.
    No it won’t.
    Non pointy knives are already quite common.
    So let’s tackle the symptom but not the cause.
    Pointy kitchen knives are a symptom?
    He means the reason people want to kill each other...if they don't use knives there are a million ways to do it unless you want to ban for example cricket bats too
    Cricket bats?

    So there's no point in any laws against people having or carrying around any kind of weapon?

    I bet banning pointy knives would save a few lives. The question is if it's practical to ban pointy knives, and if the benefits outweigh the costs.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,604

    kjh said:

    Good Lord Sir Kier got his arse handed to him at PMQs. Kemi had a few adrenaliney jitters but overall she had a gaping open goal and slammed it in. The man was an incomprehensible blubbering wreck.

    Not that I care, but seeing as you have a fetish for correcting everyone else's posts, it is Keir not Kier.
    I know. I do it to annoy Anabobazina. Though I haven't seen him around these parts of late.
    Yes, same here. I used to do it too. He had a flounce due to people daring to be critical of the labour govt and unlike the other flouncers, has yet to return.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,559
    kinabalu said:

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    MJW said:

    MJW said:

    On topic, I seriously doubt Streeting will succeed Starmer anyway for two reasons, firstly the left and soft left of Labour really don't like him. The person who succeeds Starmer - either in power or as opposition leader after a loss - is likely to be someone who can at least put feelers out to those people, and someone who makes the party feel better about itself over someone telling it hard truths about power.

    Secondly, he's not a woman. That may sound daft but Labour is quite obviously embarrassed now about never electing a female leade. Given the Chancellor, DPM, Home Secretary, education secretary, and plenty of the more prominent mid-ranking ministers or backbenchers who could try an insurgent campaign are women, there's not going to be a good excuse that the bloke is the only viable option this time unless the field thins out massively.

    Same reason Burnham may struggle should he ever get back to Westminster - though the first point doesn't apply - so maybe slightly better place if he can become an MP.

    "Labour is quite obviously embarrassed now about never electing a female leade." - Is this true? Are we not beyond the simplistic idea of it must be 'x' or 'y'? Why not the best person for the job? That's partly why I support pushing back on EDI (sorry, that should be DEI now, apparently, missed the memo).
    Of course the best person for the job and all that. But leadership elections often aren't about the best person for the job (as different people have very different criteria) - they're about who is the best ideological fit for a party's idea of itself at anyone time, what came before and whether you want continuity or change, and who can unite different factions enough to win.

    Look at the recent Tory leadership election - which ended up a choice between a dud and a slightly sharper more Maciavellian dud. The membership chose the sui generis dud. Labour previously chose Ed Miliband and Jeremy Corbyn. The Tories have picked Liz Truss, IDS, plus Boris - someone who was the right fit electorally but disastrous in the end due to failings that many knew should be disqualifying long before he was in the cabinet let alone stood for the Tory leadership.

    My point is that perhaps unlike at some points in the past, Labour activists will quite clearly be well disposed towards the idea of electing a female leader next time, and will have plenty of options who either meet the threshold of experience in big government jobs (if are looking for that), or a strong media presence if want an outsider.

    That likely means a male candidate will have to be outstanding and popular with the membership to win. Even if you think the former, Streeting isn't the latter. If it's effectively him versus Rayner, say, he won't win.
    I agree with what you're saying but if Streeting is a standout - ie it's clear he has far more 'it' than anybody else - I think he has a good chance. I wouldn't rule him out on gender grounds, is what I mean, despite it being a minus for him.
    The gender bias is really strong in history. Of the six female candidates, Yvette Cooper and Rebecca Long-Bailey are the only two not to finish last (and they beat two of the others).
    Yep. Same in America. Two strong and viable female candidates for president yet the same male buffoon was preferred to both. Go figure.

    The Tories, to their credit, are a standout on this.
    It's almost as if rejecting the concepts of quotas and "positive" discrimination is a good idea.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,446
    biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy481jwjljjo

    I think that Sam Kerr was the author of her own misfortune.

    It's hard not to conclude that they were pissed and behaved badly, and seem to be rather surprised that there were consequences to their actions.
    She sounds like an arsehole drunk who was outraged at not being believed, which I doubt is unique with footballers of any gender in that situation, though being an arsehole in itself should not be a crime.
    If being an arsehole were a crime...

    fuck me, there'd be some by-elections...
    I have no doubt, however, that many people think being an arsehole is, or should be, a crime.

    Sadly, in some cases, they may well be right!
    I am ok with it being a crime, provided I am the arbiter of being an arsehole.

    Don’t thank me for holding the door? Prison.

    Play music out loud on the train? Prison.
    Funny, I don't remember a 'Biggles enforces a police state' book.

    Maybe that was 1956's - 'Biggles takes charge.

    Leading to 1963's - 'Biggles takes it rough'.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,446
    kamski said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    geoffw said:

    Yvette Cooper's proposal to ban pointy kitchen knives was mooted twenty years ago in the BMJ and supported by chef Anthony Worral Thompson
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7508404.stm

    All it will achieve is more expensive kitchen knives as production will have to be adapted for those blades destined for UK market compared to rest of the world.
    No it won’t.
    Non pointy knives are already quite common.
    So let’s tackle the symptom but not the cause.
    Pointy kitchen knives are a symptom?
    He means the reason people want to kill each other...if they don't use knives there are a million ways to do it unless you want to ban for example cricket bats too
    Cricket bats?

    So there's no point in any laws against people having or carrying around any kind of weapon?

    I bet banning pointy knives would save a few lives. The question is if it's practical to ban pointy knives, and if the benefits outweigh the costs.
    Feels like a no and a no to me.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,793

    Good Lord Sir Kier got his arse handed to him at PMQs. Kemi had a few adrenaliney jitters but overall she had a gaping open goal and slammed it in. The man was an incomprehensible blubbering wreck.

    You should be called JokeGuy, lucky. If her Lazy Excellence hadn’t skipped security briefings, should might have landed a punch.

    But Farage was very interesting. Not banging on about traitors giving the empire away, or boat crossings on porous borders, or lack of homes due to 1M each year in new migrants, he linked pensioners empty pockets as a reason to abandon Labour for Reform, in the way the Conservative front bench can’t do just yet as they were in control so long till recently so are linked to the financial pain.
    Um, piss off. Kier's risible 'security briefings' defence was the worst part of his performance. Well, except that strangled "No thaaaanks". But nothing is worse than that.

    His briefings were getting howls of derision by the end - he ended up inventing briefings that Kemi should have attended for things that don't even have briefings.

    That would be SKS's ideal form of PMQs though probably wouldn't it? None of this nasty holding the Government to account and stirring up the public. Let's just have a briefing beforehand and then go through the motions. Sadly that's not the way it worked out for him today.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,604
    We’re not a million miles from here with the debate on sharp knives.

    https://youtu.be/mvruP3ehQIc?si=GVngKcIklR5zimbf
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,559
    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy481jwjljjo

    I think that Sam Kerr was the author of her own misfortune.

    It's hard not to conclude that they were pissed and behaved badly, and seem to be rather surprised that there were consequences to their actions.
    She sounds like an arsehole drunk who was outraged at not being believed, which I doubt is unique with footballers of any gender in that situation, though being an arsehole in itself should not be a crime.
    No, but maliciously playing the racism card... well, maybe not, but karma is a strange thing.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,909
    edited February 5
    Wicked! I is here in da North Ilford Ghetto, hangin' wid me bitches!

    Sunny P
    :lol:
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,618
    kle4 said:

    biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy481jwjljjo

    I think that Sam Kerr was the author of her own misfortune.

    It's hard not to conclude that they were pissed and behaved badly, and seem to be rather surprised that there were consequences to their actions.
    She sounds like an arsehole drunk who was outraged at not being believed, which I doubt is unique with footballers of any gender in that situation, though being an arsehole in itself should not be a crime.
    If being an arsehole were a crime...

    fuck me, there'd be some by-elections...
    I have no doubt, however, that many people think being an arsehole is, or should be, a crime.

    Sadly, in some cases, they may well be right!
    I am ok with it being a crime, provided I am the arbiter of being an arsehole.

    Don’t thank me for holding the door? Prison.

    Play music out loud on the train? Prison.
    Funny, I don't remember a 'Biggles enforces a police state' book.

    Maybe that was 1956's - 'Biggles takes charge.

    Leading to 1963's - 'Biggles takes it rough'.
    When you have a whole Camel Squadron at your command, it’s implied.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,559

    Pagan2 said:

    Who is everyone's pick for next Labour leader? I think Yvette Cooper.

    What has she ever done except for the shambles that was hips.....why would you want such an asinine person in charge when the only thing she championed was a complete idiocy?
    At least when buying a house it meant we had something to rely on. Hips dont lie.
    She should replicate it with KIPS. Each knife would come with an information pack about the specific risks associated with it.
    Can't wait for her to get round to NIPS...

    (The Northern Ireland Police Service would have been so cool if that had been how they were branded....)
    You're a fan of cool NIPS?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,220
    edited February 5
    Taz said:

    Our Ange has allowed the following councils to cancel their elections

    Norfolk
    Suffolk
    Essex
    Thurrock
    Surrey
    East Sussex
    West Sussex
    Hampshire
    Isle of Wight

    GB News are still buggering on about how cancelling the Elections makes us a dictatorship :smiley: !

    Only a minority cancelled (9 from 21). Ooops.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,604
    kinabalu said:

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    MJW said:

    MJW said:

    On topic, I seriously doubt Streeting will succeed Starmer anyway for two reasons, firstly the left and soft left of Labour really don't like him. The person who succeeds Starmer - either in power or as opposition leader after a loss - is likely to be someone who can at least put feelers out to those people, and someone who makes the party feel better about itself over someone telling it hard truths about power.

    Secondly, he's not a woman. That may sound daft but Labour is quite obviously embarrassed now about never electing a female leade. Given the Chancellor, DPM, Home Secretary, education secretary, and plenty of the more prominent mid-ranking ministers or backbenchers who could try an insurgent campaign are women, there's not going to be a good excuse that the bloke is the only viable option this time unless the field thins out massively.

    Same reason Burnham may struggle should he ever get back to Westminster - though the first point doesn't apply - so maybe slightly better place if he can become an MP.

    "Labour is quite obviously embarrassed now about never electing a female leade." - Is this true? Are we not beyond the simplistic idea of it must be 'x' or 'y'? Why not the best person for the job? That's partly why I support pushing back on EDI (sorry, that should be DEI now, apparently, missed the memo).
    Of course the best person for the job and all that. But leadership elections often aren't about the best person for the job (as different people have very different criteria) - they're about who is the best ideological fit for a party's idea of itself at anyone time, what came before and whether you want continuity or change, and who can unite different factions enough to win.

    Look at the recent Tory leadership election - which ended up a choice between a dud and a slightly sharper more Maciavellian dud. The membership chose the sui generis dud. Labour previously chose Ed Miliband and Jeremy Corbyn. The Tories have picked Liz Truss, IDS, plus Boris - someone who was the right fit electorally but disastrous in the end due to failings that many knew should be disqualifying long before he was in the cabinet let alone stood for the Tory leadership.

    My point is that perhaps unlike at some points in the past, Labour activists will quite clearly be well disposed towards the idea of electing a female leader next time, and will have plenty of options who either meet the threshold of experience in big government jobs (if are looking for that), or a strong media presence if want an outsider.

    That likely means a male candidate will have to be outstanding and popular with the membership to win. Even if you think the former, Streeting isn't the latter. If it's effectively him versus Rayner, say, he won't win.
    I agree with what you're saying but if Streeting is a standout - ie it's clear he has far more 'it' than anybody else - I think he has a good chance. I wouldn't rule him out on gender grounds, is what I mean, despite it being a minus for him.
    The gender bias is really strong in history. Of the six female candidates, Yvette Cooper and Rebecca Long-Bailey are the only two not to finish last (and they beat two of the others).
    Yep. Same in America. Two strong and viable female candidates for president yet the same male buffoon was preferred to both. Go figure.

    The Tories, to their credit, are a standout on this.
    One strong and viable candidate and Mommala who was anything but.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,446
    edited February 5
    Driver said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy481jwjljjo

    I think that Sam Kerr was the author of her own misfortune.

    It's hard not to conclude that they were pissed and behaved badly, and seem to be rather surprised that there were consequences to their actions.
    She sounds like an arsehole drunk who was outraged at not being believed, which I doubt is unique with footballers of any gender in that situation, though being an arsehole in itself should not be a crime.
    No, but maliciously playing the racism card... well, maybe not, but karma is a strange thing.
    I'm betting on an acquittal on this one. But her card playing looks ludicrous based on the reporting. If there is a conviction, expect to hear the same card a lot more.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,604
    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    Our Ange has allowed the following councils to cancel their elections

    Norfolk
    Suffolk
    Essex
    Thurrock
    Surrey
    East Sussex
    West Sussex
    Hampshire
    Isle of Wight

    GB News are still buggering on about how cancelling all the Elections makes us a dictatorship :smiley: !

    Only a minority cancelled. Ooops.
    Ed Davey is also criticising it as well.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,911
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    geoffw said:

    Yvette Cooper's proposal to ban pointy kitchen knives was mooted twenty years ago in the BMJ and supported by chef Anthony Worral Thompson
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7508404.stm

    All it will achieve is more expensive kitchen knives as production will have to be adapted for those blades destined for UK market compared to rest of the world.
    No it won’t.
    Non pointy knives are already quite common.
    So let’s tackle the symptom but not the cause.
    Pointy kitchen knives are a symptom?
    He means the reason people want to kill each other...if they don't use knives there are a million ways to do it unless you want to ban for example cricket bats too
    Oh yes, I see. The "tools" then. We're tackling the tools not the root cause.
    A tool. Singular. There are many tools used to exact vengeance and take a life. Knives will simply be supplanted by something else. These people have no regard for others lives do you seriously think a half wit bannjng the sale of knives with pointed ends will stop Stan the Stabber or Dan the Daggerman from Dagenham getting a tool to exact brutal justice against someone who dissed them.
    No, it's not quite gun control in America, is it.

    Still, I wouldn't set myself quite so implacably against it. It's an Idris Elba suggestion and he's ... well he's Idris Elba.
    So what. Fuck Idris Elba if he comes up with bullshit ideas and expects to be given a free ride because he’s famous. Why should the opinion of a luvvie carry any weight. Let’s consult Laurence Llewelyn-Bowen on The Chagos Islands and see what Peter Cetera has to say on a free trade agreement with the USA.

    Stick to reading lines written for him.

    Where’s the proof it will work. It’s a knee jerk reaction.
    He's done a fair amount in this area, I believe. Not sure a "fuck him" reaction is quite rational. Poor guy.

    Plus he was nearly Bond. Would you be saying fuck him if he was? Braver man than me if so.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,793
    Taz said:

    kjh said:

    Good Lord Sir Kier got his arse handed to him at PMQs. Kemi had a few adrenaliney jitters but overall she had a gaping open goal and slammed it in. The man was an incomprehensible blubbering wreck.

    Not that I care, but seeing as you have a fetish for correcting everyone else's posts, it is Keir not Kier.
    I know. I do it to annoy Anabobazina. Though I haven't seen him around these parts of late.
    Yes, same here. I used to do it too. He had a flounce due to people daring to be critical of the labour govt and unlike the other flouncers, has yet to return.
    Oh dear. Not many places you can go to escape criticism of the Labour Government these days.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,220
    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    Our Ange has allowed the following councils to cancel their elections

    Norfolk
    Suffolk
    Essex
    Thurrock
    Surrey
    East Sussex
    West Sussex
    Hampshire
    Isle of Wight

    There were eleven that asked for postponement - so which two have been denied?
    Sixteen had asked for postponement, listed here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2025_United_Kingdom_local_elections&oldid=1273759101
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,446
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    Our Ange has allowed the following councils to cancel their elections

    Norfolk
    Suffolk
    Essex
    Thurrock
    Surrey
    East Sussex
    West Sussex
    Hampshire
    Isle of Wight

    GB News are still buggering on about how cancelling all the Elections makes us a dictatorship :smiley: !

    Only a minority cancelled. Ooops.
    Ed Davey is also criticising it as well.
    It's an odd choice of which are included and which are not, and the delays in announcing suggest it was being amended right up to the last minute.

    If I wanted to bring in strategic authorities and get rid of most districts as soon as possible I'd prioritise mayoralties in areas which don't need local government reorganisation - since that will be easy to do in a year with no suspension of elections needed - and then permit elections for existing districts etc whilst pushing ahead with plans to merge them. Historically some have taken a few years, so that shouldn't be the first thing tried.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,358
    kamski said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    geoffw said:

    Yvette Cooper's proposal to ban pointy kitchen knives was mooted twenty years ago in the BMJ and supported by chef Anthony Worral Thompson
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7508404.stm

    All it will achieve is more expensive kitchen knives as production will have to be adapted for those blades destined for UK market compared to rest of the world.
    No it won’t.
    Non pointy knives are already quite common.
    So let’s tackle the symptom but not the cause.
    Pointy kitchen knives are a symptom?
    He means the reason people want to kill each other...if they don't use knives there are a million ways to do it unless you want to ban for example cricket bats too
    Cricket bats?

    So there's no point in any laws against people having or carrying around any kind of weapon?

    I bet banning pointy knives would save a few lives. The question is if it's practical to ban pointy knives, and if the benefits outweigh the costs.
    Don't talk bollocks people are easy to kill with so many everday objects. You decide to kill someone your choices are limitless....a knife may spring to mind first but if not available will be a cricket bat, a tire iron, a screwdriver etc
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,955
    kle4 said:

    biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy481jwjljjo

    I think that Sam Kerr was the author of her own misfortune.

    It's hard not to conclude that they were pissed and behaved badly, and seem to be rather surprised that there were consequences to their actions.
    She sounds like an arsehole drunk who was outraged at not being believed, which I doubt is unique with footballers of any gender in that situation, though being an arsehole in itself should not be a crime.
    If being an arsehole were a crime...

    fuck me, there'd be some by-elections...
    I have no doubt, however, that many people think being an arsehole is, or should be, a crime.

    Sadly, in some cases, they may well be right!
    I am ok with it being a crime, provided I am the arbiter of being an arsehole.

    Don’t thank me for holding the door? Prison.

    Play music out loud on the train? Prison.
    Funny, I don't remember a 'Biggles enforces a police state' book.

    Maybe that was 1956's - 'Biggles takes charge.


    Leading to 1963's - 'Biggles takes it rough'.
    His short lived and undistinguished foray into porn?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,622

    kle4 said:

    biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy481jwjljjo

    I think that Sam Kerr was the author of her own misfortune.

    It's hard not to conclude that they were pissed and behaved badly, and seem to be rather surprised that there were consequences to their actions.
    She sounds like an arsehole drunk who was outraged at not being believed, which I doubt is unique with footballers of any gender in that situation, though being an arsehole in itself should not be a crime.
    If being an arsehole were a crime...

    fuck me, there'd be some by-elections...
    I have no doubt, however, that many people think being an arsehole is, or should be, a crime.

    Sadly, in some cases, they may well be right!
    I am ok with it being a crime, provided I am the arbiter of being an arsehole.

    Don’t thank me for holding the door? Prison.

    Play music out loud on the train? Prison.
    Funny, I don't remember a 'Biggles enforces a police state' book.

    Maybe that was 1956's - 'Biggles takes charge.


    Leading to 1963's - 'Biggles takes it rough'.
    His short lived and undistinguished foray into porn?
    That was 'Biggles' Camel Hump.'
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,955
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy481jwjljjo

    I think that Sam Kerr was the author of her own misfortune.

    It's hard not to conclude that they were pissed and behaved badly, and seem to be rather surprised that there were consequences to their actions.
    She sounds like an arsehole drunk who was outraged at not being believed, which I doubt is unique with footballers of any gender in that situation, though being an arsehole in itself should not be a crime.
    If being an arsehole were a crime...

    fuck me, there'd be some by-elections...
    I have no doubt, however, that many people think being an arsehole is, or should be, a crime.

    Sadly, in some cases, they may well be right!
    I am ok with it being a crime, provided I am the arbiter of being an arsehole.

    Don’t thank me for holding the door? Prison.

    Play music out loud on the train? Prison.
    Funny, I don't remember a 'Biggles enforces a police state' book.

    Maybe that was 1956's - 'Biggles takes charge.


    Leading to 1963's - 'Biggles takes it rough'.
    His short lived and undistinguished foray into porn?
    That was 'Biggles' Camel Hump.'
    Didn’t Blair make it illegal to talk about that?
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,604

    Taz said:

    kjh said:

    Good Lord Sir Kier got his arse handed to him at PMQs. Kemi had a few adrenaliney jitters but overall she had a gaping open goal and slammed it in. The man was an incomprehensible blubbering wreck.

    Not that I care, but seeing as you have a fetish for correcting everyone else's posts, it is Keir not Kier.
    I know. I do it to annoy Anabobazina. Though I haven't seen him around these parts of late.
    Yes, same here. I used to do it too. He had a flounce due to people daring to be critical of the labour govt and unlike the other flouncers, has yet to return.
    Oh dear. Not many places you can go to escape criticism of the Labour Government these days.
    I wonder if there is a support group for like minded fellows. Similar to Alcoholics Anonymous or the 1-2-1 club from Dear John.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,622

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy481jwjljjo

    I think that Sam Kerr was the author of her own misfortune.

    It's hard not to conclude that they were pissed and behaved badly, and seem to be rather surprised that there were consequences to their actions.
    She sounds like an arsehole drunk who was outraged at not being believed, which I doubt is unique with footballers of any gender in that situation, though being an arsehole in itself should not be a crime.
    If being an arsehole were a crime...

    fuck me, there'd be some by-elections...
    I have no doubt, however, that many people think being an arsehole is, or should be, a crime.

    Sadly, in some cases, they may well be right!
    I am ok with it being a crime, provided I am the arbiter of being an arsehole.

    Don’t thank me for holding the door? Prison.

    Play music out loud on the train? Prison.
    Funny, I don't remember a 'Biggles enforces a police state' book.

    Maybe that was 1956's - 'Biggles takes charge.


    Leading to 1963's - 'Biggles takes it rough'.
    His short lived and undistinguished foray into porn?
    That was 'Biggles' Camel Hump.'
    Didn’t Blair make it illegal to talk about that?
    Nah, he sold a Pup.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,722
    Who's to say what will be a safer constituency next time?
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,338
    edited February 5
    kinabalu said:

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    MJW said:

    MJW said:

    On topic, I seriously doubt Streeting will succeed Starmer anyway for two reasons, firstly the left and soft left of Labour really don't like him. The person who succeeds Starmer - either in power or as opposition leader after a loss - is likely to be someone who can at least put feelers out to those people, and someone who makes the party feel better about itself over someone telling it hard truths about power.

    Secondly, he's not a woman. That may sound daft but Labour is quite obviously embarrassed now about never electing a female leade. Given the Chancellor, DPM, Home Secretary, education secretary, and plenty of the more prominent mid-ranking ministers or backbenchers who could try an insurgent campaign are women, there's not going to be a good excuse that the bloke is the only viable option this time unless the field thins out massively.

    Same reason Burnham may struggle should he ever get back to Westminster - though the first point doesn't apply - so maybe slightly better place if he can become an MP.

    "Labour is quite obviously embarrassed now about never electing a female leade." - Is this true? Are we not beyond the simplistic idea of it must be 'x' or 'y'? Why not the best person for the job? That's partly why I support pushing back on EDI (sorry, that should be DEI now, apparently, missed the memo).
    Of course the best person for the job and all that. But leadership elections often aren't about the best person for the job (as different people have very different criteria) - they're about who is the best ideological fit for a party's idea of itself at anyone time, what came before and whether you want continuity or change, and who can unite different factions enough to win.

    Look at the recent Tory leadership election - which ended up a choice between a dud and a slightly sharper more Maciavellian dud. The membership chose the sui generis dud. Labour previously chose Ed Miliband and Jeremy Corbyn. The Tories have picked Liz Truss, IDS, plus Boris - someone who was the right fit electorally but disastrous in the end due to failings that many knew should be disqualifying long before he was in the cabinet let alone stood for the Tory leadership.

    My point is that perhaps unlike at some points in the past, Labour activists will quite clearly be well disposed towards the idea of electing a female leader next time, and will have plenty of options who either meet the threshold of experience in big government jobs (if are looking for that), or a strong media presence if want an outsider.

    That likely means a male candidate will have to be outstanding and popular with the membership to win. Even if you think the former, Streeting isn't the latter. If it's effectively him versus Rayner, say, he won't win.
    I agree with what you're saying but if Streeting is a standout - ie it's clear he has far more 'it' than anybody else - I think he has a good chance. I wouldn't rule him out on gender grounds, is what I mean, despite it being a minus for him.
    The gender bias is really strong in history. Of the six female candidates, Yvette Cooper and Rebecca Long-Bailey are the only two not to finish last (and they beat two of the others).
    Yep. Same in America. Two strong and viable female candidates for president yet the same male buffoon was preferred to both. Go figure.

    The Tories, to their credit, are a standout on this.
    Assuming you're talking about Hilary Clinton as one of those female candidates, she WAS actually preferred to Donald Trump. It was the bizarre and screwy 18th century Electoral College that denied her victory, not the votes of the Deplorables.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,618
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy481jwjljjo

    I think that Sam Kerr was the author of her own misfortune.

    It's hard not to conclude that they were pissed and behaved badly, and seem to be rather surprised that there were consequences to their actions.
    She sounds like an arsehole drunk who was outraged at not being believed, which I doubt is unique with footballers of any gender in that situation, though being an arsehole in itself should not be a crime.
    If being an arsehole were a crime...

    fuck me, there'd be some by-elections...
    I have no doubt, however, that many people think being an arsehole is, or should be, a crime.

    Sadly, in some cases, they may well be right!
    I am ok with it being a crime, provided I am the arbiter of being an arsehole.

    Don’t thank me for holding the door? Prison.

    Play music out loud on the train? Prison.
    Funny, I don't remember a 'Biggles enforces a police state' book.

    Maybe that was 1956's - 'Biggles takes charge.


    Leading to 1963's - 'Biggles takes it rough'.
    His short lived and undistinguished foray into porn?
    That was 'Biggles' Camel Hump.'
    A focker on every page.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,622
    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy481jwjljjo

    I think that Sam Kerr was the author of her own misfortune.

    It's hard not to conclude that they were pissed and behaved badly, and seem to be rather surprised that there were consequences to their actions.
    She sounds like an arsehole drunk who was outraged at not being believed, which I doubt is unique with footballers of any gender in that situation, though being an arsehole in itself should not be a crime.
    If being an arsehole were a crime...

    fuck me, there'd be some by-elections...
    I have no doubt, however, that many people think being an arsehole is, or should be, a crime.

    Sadly, in some cases, they may well be right!
    I am ok with it being a crime, provided I am the arbiter of being an arsehole.

    Don’t thank me for holding the door? Prison.

    Play music out loud on the train? Prison.
    Funny, I don't remember a 'Biggles enforces a police state' book.

    Maybe that was 1956's - 'Biggles takes charge.


    Leading to 1963's - 'Biggles takes it rough'.
    His short lived and undistinguished foray into porn?
    That was 'Biggles' Camel Hump.'
    A focker on every page.
    Tripe.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,604
    edited February 5
    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    geoffw said:

    Yvette Cooper's proposal to ban pointy kitchen knives was mooted twenty years ago in the BMJ and supported by chef Anthony Worral Thompson
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7508404.stm

    All it will achieve is more expensive kitchen knives as production will have to be adapted for those blades destined for UK market compared to rest of the world.
    No it won’t.
    Non pointy knives are already quite common.
    So let’s tackle the symptom but not the cause.
    Pointy kitchen knives are a symptom?
    He means the reason people want to kill each other...if they don't use knives there are a million ways to do it unless you want to ban for example cricket bats too
    Oh yes, I see. The "tools" then. We're tackling the tools not the root cause.
    A tool. Singular. There are many tools used to exact vengeance and take a life. Knives will simply be supplanted by something else. These people have no regard for others lives do you seriously think a half wit bannjng the sale of knives with pointed ends will stop Stan the Stabber or Dan the Daggerman from Dagenham getting a tool to exact brutal justice against someone who dissed them.
    No, it's not quite gun control in America, is it.

    Still, I wouldn't set myself quite so implacably against it. It's an Idris Elba suggestion and he's ... well he's Idris Elba.
    So what. Fuck Idris Elba if he comes up with bullshit ideas and expects to be given a free ride because he’s famous. Why should the opinion of a luvvie carry any weight. Let’s consult Laurence Llewelyn-Bowen on The Chagos Islands and see what Peter Cetera has to say on a free trade agreement with the USA.

    Stick to reading lines written for him.

    Where’s the proof it will work. It’s a knee jerk reaction.
    He's done a fair amount in this area, I believe. Not sure a "fuck him" reaction is quite rational. Poor guy.

    Plus he was nearly Bond. Would you be saying fuck him if he was? Braver man than me if so.
    quite frankly so what if he has done work. Good for him for that. Doesn’t make him right about the solution which does nothing to tackle the root cause of the problem.

    Something you failed to understand too, probably why you think he’s ace.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,434
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,604

    Taz said:

    kjh said:

    Good Lord Sir Kier got his arse handed to him at PMQs. Kemi had a few adrenaliney jitters but overall she had a gaping open goal and slammed it in. The man was an incomprehensible blubbering wreck.

    Not that I care, but seeing as you have a fetish for correcting everyone else's posts, it is Keir not Kier.
    I know. I do it to annoy Anabobazina. Though I haven't seen him around these parts of late.
    Yes, same here. I used to do it too. He had a flounce due to people daring to be critical of the labour govt and unlike the other flouncers, has yet to return.
    Oh dear. Not many places you can go to escape criticism of the Labour Government these days.
    The voters are so ungrateful for not appreciating the excellence of execution that we are getting from SKS and this govt.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,358
    Fishing said:

    kinabalu said:

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    MJW said:

    MJW said:

    On topic, I seriously doubt Streeting will succeed Starmer anyway for two reasons, firstly the left and soft left of Labour really don't like him. The person who succeeds Starmer - either in power or as opposition leader after a loss - is likely to be someone who can at least put feelers out to those people, and someone who makes the party feel better about itself over someone telling it hard truths about power.

    Secondly, he's not a woman. That may sound daft but Labour is quite obviously embarrassed now about never electing a female leade. Given the Chancellor, DPM, Home Secretary, education secretary, and plenty of the more prominent mid-ranking ministers or backbenchers who could try an insurgent campaign are women, there's not going to be a good excuse that the bloke is the only viable option this time unless the field thins out massively.

    Same reason Burnham may struggle should he ever get back to Westminster - though the first point doesn't apply - so maybe slightly better place if he can become an MP.

    "Labour is quite obviously embarrassed now about never electing a female leade." - Is this true? Are we not beyond the simplistic idea of it must be 'x' or 'y'? Why not the best person for the job? That's partly why I support pushing back on EDI (sorry, that should be DEI now, apparently, missed the memo).
    Of course the best person for the job and all that. But leadership elections often aren't about the best person for the job (as different people have very different criteria) - they're about who is the best ideological fit for a party's idea of itself at anyone time, what came before and whether you want continuity or change, and who can unite different factions enough to win.

    Look at the recent Tory leadership election - which ended up a choice between a dud and a slightly sharper more Maciavellian dud. The membership chose the sui generis dud. Labour previously chose Ed Miliband and Jeremy Corbyn. The Tories have picked Liz Truss, IDS, plus Boris - someone who was the right fit electorally but disastrous in the end due to failings that many knew should be disqualifying long before he was in the cabinet let alone stood for the Tory leadership.

    My point is that perhaps unlike at some points in the past, Labour activists will quite clearly be well disposed towards the idea of electing a female leader next time, and will have plenty of options who either meet the threshold of experience in big government jobs (if are looking for that), or a strong media presence if want an outsider.

    That likely means a male candidate will have to be outstanding and popular with the membership to win. Even if you think the former, Streeting isn't the latter. If it's effectively him versus Rayner, say, he won't win.
    I agree with what you're saying but if Streeting is a standout - ie it's clear he has far more 'it' than anybody else - I think he has a good chance. I wouldn't rule him out on gender grounds, is what I mean, despite it being a minus for him.
    The gender bias is really strong in history. Of the six female candidates, Yvette Cooper and Rebecca Long-Bailey are the only two not to finish last (and they beat two of the others).
    Yep. Same in America. Two strong and viable female candidates for president yet the same male buffoon was preferred to both. Go figure.

    The Tories, to their credit, are a standout on this.
    Assuming you're talking about Hilary Clinton as one of those female candidates, she WAS actually preferred to Donald Trump. It was the bizarre and screwy 18th century Electoral College that denied her victory, not the votes of the Deplorables.
    Thankfully no country deserves that bitch in charge, trump is both an arse and protofascist but hilary was a full blown hitler
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,481
    boulay said:

    biggles said:

    When we ban pointy knives, and it doesn’t work, will we come for the screwdrivers? How will we stop people breaking knives to get a point? What about good old fashioned toothbrush shivs? Will we ban bottles?

    Don’t tell them about cars - if they find out they are responsible for around 7 times more deaths in the UK we’re all walking and Dura Ace will have nothing to live for.

    Don't be silly, he'll still have his titanium Brompton.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,481
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    geoffw said:

    Yvette Cooper's proposal to ban pointy kitchen knives was mooted twenty years ago in the BMJ and supported by chef Anthony Worral Thompson
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7508404.stm

    All it will achieve is more expensive kitchen knives as production will have to be adapted for those blades destined for UK market compared to rest of the world.
    No it won’t.
    Non pointy knives are already quite common.
    So let’s tackle the symptom but not the cause.
    Pointy kitchen knives are a symptom?
    He means the reason people want to kill each other...if they don't use knives there are a million ways to do it unless you want to ban for example cricket bats too
    Oh yes, I see. The "tools" then. We're tackling the tools not the root cause.
    A tool. Singular. There are many tools used to exact vengeance and take a life. Knives will simply be supplanted by something else. These people have no regard for others lives do you seriously think a half wit bannjng the sale of knives with pointed ends will stop Stan the Stabber or Dan the Daggerman from Dagenham getting a tool to exact brutal justice against someone who dissed them.
    While that's true, one only has to look at the US to discover that if you make it a little harder to find a lethal weapon, then you will prevent at least a few murders.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,569

    Wicked! I is here in da North Ilford Ghetto, hangin' wid me bitches!

    Sunny P
    :lol:

    Sunil, we all know "me bitches" = "your mum"....
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,901
    A few things from the below story.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/feb/05/keir-starmer-opts-not-to-attend-international-ai-summit-in-paris

    Is Starmer not going because it is part of a project started by the last Tory gov?

    Is Starmer missing a big international conference with major players to avoid more criticism for being abroad when this is one he should definitely be at and more important than optics?

    Are the French incapable of doing things without trying to take it over and alter it so it’s all about France rather than international collaboration re AI?

    “The president wants to make it a kind of AI version of Choose France,” an Elysée spokesperson said. “Choose France is the annual summit aimed at proving how attractive the country is to major foreign corporations.”

    Like with sports they didn’t create but then run around setting up organisations to control them.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,446
    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    geoffw said:

    Yvette Cooper's proposal to ban pointy kitchen knives was mooted twenty years ago in the BMJ and supported by chef Anthony Worral Thompson
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7508404.stm

    All it will achieve is more expensive kitchen knives as production will have to be adapted for those blades destined for UK market compared to rest of the world.
    No it won’t.
    Non pointy knives are already quite common.
    So let’s tackle the symptom but not the cause.
    Pointy kitchen knives are a symptom?
    He means the reason people want to kill each other...if they don't use knives there are a million ways to do it unless you want to ban for example cricket bats too
    Oh yes, I see. The "tools" then. We're tackling the tools not the root cause.
    A tool. Singular. There are many tools used to exact vengeance and take a life. Knives will simply be supplanted by something else. These people have no regard for others lives do you seriously think a half wit bannjng the sale of knives with pointed ends will stop Stan the Stabber or Dan the Daggerman from Dagenham getting a tool to exact brutal justice against someone who dissed them.
    While that's true, one only has to look at the US to discover that if you make it a little harder to find a lethal weapon, then you will prevent at least a few murders.
    True, but this feels like those joke suggestions or lowering the speed limit to 5 mph to eliminate crashes - not as extreme as that, but in terms of whether it is really proportionate.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,220
    edited February 5

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
    Take Trump seriously but not literally and work out the possibilities from there.

    Can anyone tell us what is the best plan as yet from anyone with power but who isn't Trump?
    Stick with a 2-state solution. Put pressure on Israel to accept it. The US could do this if they wanted to.
    No, they couldn’t

    After October 7 there is no two state solution. It’s done

    So what’s next? The only world leader offering ANY future to the Palestinians is - irony of ironies - Donald Trump
    What future?

    He's offering them a forced relocation to the desert whilst providing the Israelis with more bombs. No doubt as soon as they move they will be bombed and once they settle they will be bombed. What choice?

    There was a Israeli spokeswoman on the WATO who's rhetoric was indistinguishable from Nazi pamphlets. And this is a spokeswoman. Imagine what is said behind the scenes. Hopefully the Arabs will now understand that America will always support Israeli aggression. And Israel will always want more.
    More security? More ways to stop terrorists murdering, abducting, raping? Lots of what Israel has done in the name of responding to 7th October can be seen as over the top, barbaric, a step too far. For sure. But then Hamas sought this out. They sewed the wind. What did they think would happen?
    Why stop at Oct 7th, the history goes back decades.
    Yes, it does, but Oct 7th was what caused the latest flare up in a long line of hate.

    At some point people need to sit down together with their enemies and talk. Its happened in Northern Ireland thankfully. Why not in the ME?
    I suppose one advantage in Nirthern Ireland was that an increasing number of people didn't regard themselves as Protestant or Catholic, or even if they did, didn't think that defined them.any more.
    I was musing on this last night in the context of Islamophobia. I think people have a lot more issues with Islam (and muslims in general) because of the coupling of Islam to the state. Islamic countries tend to have their religion at the heart of government and everyday life, in a way that has not been the case in the West for a very long time. So in terms of culture an influx of x muslims feels more threatening than an influx of Budhists, for instance. It feels inevitable in the UK that religion fades away (as we become more rational? Is that a stretch?) Has this transition started for Islam yet? Was it their in Iran in the 1970's?

    (edit for stupid typo)
    Yes, it's a stretch.

    I think it was CS Lewis who observed that when people stop believing in religion they don't believe in nothing, they believe in anything.

    Empirically, that seems to be what happens at least in our society.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,604
    Pagan2 said:

    kamski said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    geoffw said:

    Yvette Cooper's proposal to ban pointy kitchen knives was mooted twenty years ago in the BMJ and supported by chef Anthony Worral Thompson
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7508404.stm

    All it will achieve is more expensive kitchen knives as production will have to be adapted for those blades destined for UK market compared to rest of the world.
    No it won’t.
    Non pointy knives are already quite common.
    So let’s tackle the symptom but not the cause.
    Pointy kitchen knives are a symptom?
    He means the reason people want to kill each other...if they don't use knives there are a million ways to do it unless you want to ban for example cricket bats too
    Cricket bats?

    So there's no point in any laws against people having or carrying around any kind of weapon?

    I bet banning pointy knives would save a few lives. The question is if it's practical to ban pointy knives, and if the benefits outweigh the costs.
    Don't talk bollocks people are easy to kill with so many everday objects. You decide to kill someone your choices are limitless....a knife may spring to mind first but if not available will be a cricket bat, a tire iron, a screwdriver etc
    I wonder if we can get some luvvie to campaign to ban flat headed screwdrivers ?

    I wonder if Hugh Dennis is available to front it.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,909

    On topic, I agree Streeting is probably a lay. For one thing, Labour will really, really want a female leader after an unbroken succession of white men.

    Ed Miliband.
    He was the future once!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,398
    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy481jwjljjo

    I think that Sam Kerr was the author of her own misfortune.

    It's hard not to conclude that they were pissed and behaved badly, and seem to be rather surprised that there were consequences to their actions.
    She sounds like an arsehole drunk who was outraged at not being believed, which I doubt is unique with footballers of any gender in that situation, though being an arsehole in itself should not be a crime.
    If being an arsehole were a crime...

    fuck me, there'd be some by-elections...
    I have no doubt, however, that many people think being an arsehole is, or should be, a crime.

    Sadly, in some cases, they may well be right!
    I am ok with it being a crime, provided I am the arbiter of being an arsehole.

    Don’t thank me for holding the door? Prison.

    Play music out loud on the train? Prison.
    Funny, I don't remember a 'Biggles enforces a police state' book.

    Maybe that was 1956's - 'Biggles takes charge.


    Leading to 1963's - 'Biggles takes it rough'.
    His short lived and undistinguished foray into porn?
    That was 'Biggles' Camel Hump.'
    A focker on every page.
    "Biggles Flies Undone" I have remarked on here already. But there is also "Biggles and Algy Nip Behind the Hangar".
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,481
    biggles said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
    Take Trump seriously but not literally and work out the possibilities from there.

    Can anyone tell us what is the best plan as yet from anyone with power but who isn't Trump?
    Stick with a 2-state solution. Put pressure on Israel to accept it. The US could do this if they wanted to.
    No, they couldn’t

    After October 7 there is no two state solution. It’s done

    So what’s next? The only world leader offering ANY future to the Palestinians is - irony of ironies - Donald Trump
    What future?

    He's offering them a forced relocation to the desert whilst providing the Israelis with more bombs. No doubt as soon as they move they will be bombed and once they settle they will be bombed. What choice?

    There was a Israeli spokeswoman on the WATO who's rhetoric was indistinguishable from Nazi pamphlets. And this is a spokeswoman. Imagine what is said behind the scenes. Hopefully the Arabs will now understand that America will always support Israeli aggression. And Israel will always want more.
    AIUI he wants them to go to Indonesia

    If Jakarta can be persuaded (that’s one of the world’s bigger ifs) that would be a great choice. Sunny, fertile, Muslim but quite relaxed, and in a booming part of the world

    Because, let’s face it, what is the alternative? After October 7 Israel will NEVER agree to a 2 state solution. It was already extremely unlikely Palestinians would be allowed to return to their homes pre 1947, now it is utterly impossible

    So what’s left? They will just sit there, in squalor and misery, in the rubble of Gaza, for the rest of time? That’s it? I doubt it. If I were Palestinian I would hate Jews so much I would try and do another October 7, eventually one of them will succeed, so we have another October 7, and this time Israel will kill 80,000 or 500,000 not 40,000, or maybe Israel will kill all of them, fuck knows but that is the future unless someone suggests a new and radically different solution
    I believe the cumulative death toll is closer to 500 000 than 40 000.

    You state everything as absolute and predetermined I think differently. Israel will do what the US requires of them and once Americans are no longer willing to fund endless atrocities these immutable ideas will change. You cannot bomb your neighbours and threaten a continent whilst living on a postage stamp.

    Israel relies on a mercurial superpower for most of their weapons and have a population of 10 million. They will have to compromise.
    Weren't we rather postage stamp-sized relatively in 1940s and didn't we need to rely on the US to do what was right. So what you suggest is not inevitable.
    We had 20 odd miles of moat and an empire. Israel is surrounded by places it has bombed and some concrete walls. You're a shouty military man do you really think they will ever be secure?
    "We had 20 odd miles of moat and an empire."

    Genuinely LOL.

    Do you suppose our moat would have protected us absent US involvement.

    The US wasn't secure on 9/11 and in Boston. We weren't secure from PIRA and latterly from IS-inspired events. Is Israel secure? Evidently not either as we have seen. But is it an existential threat - yes as far as Hamas and plenty of "ordinary decent Palestinians" are concerned. But practically no. They aren't going anywhere any time soon.

    Unlike it seems perhaps according to The Donald's latest idea, those selfsame Palestinians.
    Our 'moat' did protect us. Hitler abandoned Operation Sea Lion after losing the Battle of Britain ... hat-tip Polish and Czechoslovak pilots ..... and turned his face East. With eventually fatal results.
    Arguably the Battle of Britain was beside the point. The Royal Navy would have decimated any invasion fleet, even with the Luftwaffe ascendant.
    Exactly this. Even with the U.S. staying out of the war in 1942, Hitler would have had to give up on us, especially as he got tied up in the East.

    It’s a toss up whether we could have won in North Africa alone and kept the oil flowing, but I assume no U.S. declaration of war means no big Japanese push so we could have reinforced.

    In the end though, Germany/Japan would have done something to bring the yanks in. It was inevitable. And once the Allies were all in, we were always going to win (knowing what we know now - wasn’t as obvious then).
    Hmmm... I'm a little less sanguine than you.

    If Hitler had been less dumb, he would have sent his troops to North Africa first and cut off UK oil. At which point we would have been in serious trouble: no oil, U-boats in the Atlantic, and Japan unchecked in the Far East.

    Fortunately, he had dreams of lebensraum. And fortunately, the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour. But there were many ways we could have lost the war.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,358
    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    geoffw said:

    Yvette Cooper's proposal to ban pointy kitchen knives was mooted twenty years ago in the BMJ and supported by chef Anthony Worral Thompson
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7508404.stm

    All it will achieve is more expensive kitchen knives as production will have to be adapted for those blades destined for UK market compared to rest of the world.
    No it won’t.
    Non pointy knives are already quite common.
    So let’s tackle the symptom but not the cause.
    Pointy kitchen knives are a symptom?
    He means the reason people want to kill each other...if they don't use knives there are a million ways to do it unless you want to ban for example cricket bats too
    Oh yes, I see. The "tools" then. We're tackling the tools not the root cause.
    A tool. Singular. There are many tools used to exact vengeance and take a life. Knives will simply be supplanted by something else. These people have no regard for others lives do you seriously think a half wit bannjng the sale of knives with pointed ends will stop Stan the Stabber or Dan the Daggerman from Dagenham getting a tool to exact brutal justice against someone who dissed them.
    While that's true, one only has to look at the US to discover that if you make it a little harder to find a lethal weapon, then you will prevent at least a few murders.
    You deter maybe the "in the moment ones" where they have a weapon on them....however as I said if they were going to carry a knife...they will now carry a screwdriver, an awl etc both of which are actually better stabbing weapons. A wide bladed knife if not used properly tends to get hooked up on ribs and most stabbers need tuition on the best way to use one
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,604
    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy481jwjljjo

    I think that Sam Kerr was the author of her own misfortune.

    It's hard not to conclude that they were pissed and behaved badly, and seem to be rather surprised that there were consequences to their actions.
    She sounds like an arsehole drunk who was outraged at not being believed, which I doubt is unique with footballers of any gender in that situation, though being an arsehole in itself should not be a crime.
    If being an arsehole were a crime...

    fuck me, there'd be some by-elections...
    I have no doubt, however, that many people think being an arsehole is, or should be, a crime.

    Sadly, in some cases, they may well be right!
    I am ok with it being a crime, provided I am the arbiter of being an arsehole.

    Don’t thank me for holding the door? Prison.

    Play music out loud on the train? Prison.
    Funny, I don't remember a 'Biggles enforces a police state' book.

    Maybe that was 1956's - 'Biggles takes charge.


    Leading to 1963's - 'Biggles takes it rough'.
    His short lived and undistinguished foray into porn?
    That was 'Biggles' Camel Hump.'
    A focker on every page.
    Did Biggles say ‘these fockers were in Messerschmitts’ ?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,909
    Taz said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy481jwjljjo

    I think that Sam Kerr was the author of her own misfortune.

    It's hard not to conclude that they were pissed and behaved badly, and seem to be rather surprised that there were consequences to their actions.
    She sounds like an arsehole drunk who was outraged at not being believed, which I doubt is unique with footballers of any gender in that situation, though being an arsehole in itself should not be a crime.
    If being an arsehole were a crime...

    fuck me, there'd be some by-elections...
    I have no doubt, however, that many people think being an arsehole is, or should be, a crime.

    Sadly, in some cases, they may well be right!
    I am ok with it being a crime, provided I am the arbiter of being an arsehole.

    Don’t thank me for holding the door? Prison.

    Play music out loud on the train? Prison.
    Funny, I don't remember a 'Biggles enforces a police state' book.

    Maybe that was 1956's - 'Biggles takes charge.


    Leading to 1963's - 'Biggles takes it rough'.
    His short lived and undistinguished foray into porn?
    That was 'Biggles' Camel Hump.'
    A focker on every page.
    Did Biggles say ‘these fockers were in Messerschmitts’ ?
    Were there any Messerschmitts in WW1?

    #PBpendantry
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,481
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
    Take Trump seriously but not literally and work out the possibilities from there.

    Can anyone tell us what is the best plan as yet from anyone with power but who isn't Trump?
    Stick with a 2-state solution. Put pressure on Israel to accept it. The US could do this if they wanted to.
    No, they couldn’t

    After October 7 there is no two state solution. It’s done

    So what’s next? The only world leader offering ANY future to the Palestinians is - irony of ironies - Donald Trump
    What future?

    He's offering them a forced relocation to the desert whilst providing the Israelis with more bombs. No doubt as soon as they move they will be bombed and once they settle they will be bombed. What choice?

    There was a Israeli spokeswoman on the WATO who's rhetoric was indistinguishable from Nazi pamphlets. And this is a spokeswoman. Imagine what is said behind the scenes. Hopefully the Arabs will now understand that America will always support Israeli aggression. And Israel will always want more.
    More security? More ways to stop terrorists murdering, abducting, raping? Lots of what Israel has done in the name of responding to 7th October can be seen as over the top, barbaric, a step too far. For sure. But then Hamas sought this out. They sewed the wind. What did they think would happen?
    Why stop at Oct 7th, the history goes back decades.
    Yes, it does, but Oct 7th was what caused the latest flare up in a long line of hate.

    At some point people need to sit down together with their enemies and talk. Its happened in Northern Ireland thankfully. Why not in the ME?
    I suppose one advantage in Nirthern Ireland was that an increasing number of people didn't regard themselves as Protestant or Catholic, or even if they did, didn't think that defined them.any more.
    I was musing on this last night in the context of Islamophobia. I think people have a lot more issues with Islam (and muslims in general) because of the coupling of Islam to the state. Islamic countries tend to have their religion at the heart of government and everyday life, in a way that has not been the case in the West for a very long time. So in terms of culture an influx of x muslims feels more threatening than an influx of Budhists, for instance. It feels inevitable in the UK that religion fades away (as we become more rational? Is that a stretch?) Has this transition started for Islam yet? Was it their in Iran in the 1970's?

    (edit for stupid typo)
    Yes, it's a stretch.

    I think it was CS Lewis who observed that when people stop believing in religion they don't believe in nothing, they believe in anything.

    Empirically, that seems to be what happens at least in our society.
    Really?

    I think the evidence is that those espouse belief in God are more likely to believe in things like tarot cards.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,909
    rcs1000 said:

    biggles said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
    Take Trump seriously but not literally and work out the possibilities from there.

    Can anyone tell us what is the best plan as yet from anyone with power but who isn't Trump?
    Stick with a 2-state solution. Put pressure on Israel to accept it. The US could do this if they wanted to.
    No, they couldn’t

    After October 7 there is no two state solution. It’s done

    So what’s next? The only world leader offering ANY future to the Palestinians is - irony of ironies - Donald Trump
    What future?

    He's offering them a forced relocation to the desert whilst providing the Israelis with more bombs. No doubt as soon as they move they will be bombed and once they settle they will be bombed. What choice?

    There was a Israeli spokeswoman on the WATO who's rhetoric was indistinguishable from Nazi pamphlets. And this is a spokeswoman. Imagine what is said behind the scenes. Hopefully the Arabs will now understand that America will always support Israeli aggression. And Israel will always want more.
    AIUI he wants them to go to Indonesia

    If Jakarta can be persuaded (that’s one of the world’s bigger ifs) that would be a great choice. Sunny, fertile, Muslim but quite relaxed, and in a booming part of the world

    Because, let’s face it, what is the alternative? After October 7 Israel will NEVER agree to a 2 state solution. It was already extremely unlikely Palestinians would be allowed to return to their homes pre 1947, now it is utterly impossible

    So what’s left? They will just sit there, in squalor and misery, in the rubble of Gaza, for the rest of time? That’s it? I doubt it. If I were Palestinian I would hate Jews so much I would try and do another October 7, eventually one of them will succeed, so we have another October 7, and this time Israel will kill 80,000 or 500,000 not 40,000, or maybe Israel will kill all of them, fuck knows but that is the future unless someone suggests a new and radically different solution
    I believe the cumulative death toll is closer to 500 000 than 40 000.

    You state everything as absolute and predetermined I think differently. Israel will do what the US requires of them and once Americans are no longer willing to fund endless atrocities these immutable ideas will change. You cannot bomb your neighbours and threaten a continent whilst living on a postage stamp.

    Israel relies on a mercurial superpower for most of their weapons and have a population of 10 million. They will have to compromise.
    Weren't we rather postage stamp-sized relatively in 1940s and didn't we need to rely on the US to do what was right. So what you suggest is not inevitable.
    We had 20 odd miles of moat and an empire. Israel is surrounded by places it has bombed and some concrete walls. You're a shouty military man do you really think they will ever be secure?
    "We had 20 odd miles of moat and an empire."

    Genuinely LOL.

    Do you suppose our moat would have protected us absent US involvement.

    The US wasn't secure on 9/11 and in Boston. We weren't secure from PIRA and latterly from IS-inspired events. Is Israel secure? Evidently not either as we have seen. But is it an existential threat - yes as far as Hamas and plenty of "ordinary decent Palestinians" are concerned. But practically no. They aren't going anywhere any time soon.

    Unlike it seems perhaps according to The Donald's latest idea, those selfsame Palestinians.
    Our 'moat' did protect us. Hitler abandoned Operation Sea Lion after losing the Battle of Britain ... hat-tip Polish and Czechoslovak pilots ..... and turned his face East. With eventually fatal results.
    Arguably the Battle of Britain was beside the point. The Royal Navy would have decimated any invasion fleet, even with the Luftwaffe ascendant.
    Exactly this. Even with the U.S. staying out of the war in 1942, Hitler would have had to give up on us, especially as he got tied up in the East.

    It’s a toss up whether we could have won in North Africa alone and kept the oil flowing, but I assume no U.S. declaration of war means no big Japanese push so we could have reinforced.

    In the end though, Germany/Japan would have done something to bring the yanks in. It was inevitable. And once the Allies were all in, we were always going to win (knowing what we know now - wasn’t as obvious then).
    Hmmm... I'm a little less sanguine than you.

    If Hitler had been less dumb, he would have sent his troops to North Africa first and cut off UK oil. At which point we would have been in serious trouble: no oil, U-boats in the Atlantic, and Japan unchecked in the Far East.

    Fortunately, he had dreams of lebensraum. And fortunately, the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour. But there were many ways we could have lost the war.
    And Hitler declared war on the USA, not the other way round.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,446
    edited February 5
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
    Take Trump seriously but not literally and work out the possibilities from there.

    Can anyone tell us what is the best plan as yet from anyone with power but who isn't Trump?
    Stick with a 2-state solution. Put pressure on Israel to accept it. The US could do this if they wanted to.
    No, they couldn’t

    After October 7 there is no two state solution. It’s done

    So what’s next? The only world leader offering ANY future to the Palestinians is - irony of ironies - Donald Trump
    What future?

    He's offering them a forced relocation to the desert whilst providing the Israelis with more bombs. No doubt as soon as they move they will be bombed and once they settle they will be bombed. What choice?

    There was a Israeli spokeswoman on the WATO who's rhetoric was indistinguishable from Nazi pamphlets. And this is a spokeswoman. Imagine what is said behind the scenes. Hopefully the Arabs will now understand that America will always support Israeli aggression. And Israel will always want more.
    More security? More ways to stop terrorists murdering, abducting, raping? Lots of what Israel has done in the name of responding to 7th October can be seen as over the top, barbaric, a step too far. For sure. But then Hamas sought this out. They sewed the wind. What did they think would happen?
    Why stop at Oct 7th, the history goes back decades.
    Yes, it does, but Oct 7th was what caused the latest flare up in a long line of hate.

    At some point people need to sit down together with their enemies and talk. Its happened in Northern Ireland thankfully. Why not in the ME?
    I suppose one advantage in Nirthern Ireland was that an increasing number of people didn't regard themselves as Protestant or Catholic, or even if they did, didn't think that defined them.any more.
    I was musing on this last night in the context of Islamophobia. I think people have a lot more issues with Islam (and muslims in general) because of the coupling of Islam to the state. Islamic countries tend to have their religion at the heart of government and everyday life, in a way that has not been the case in the West for a very long time. So in terms of culture an influx of x muslims feels more threatening than an influx of Budhists, for instance. It feels inevitable in the UK that religion fades away (as we become more rational? Is that a stretch?) Has this transition started for Islam yet? Was it their in Iran in the 1970's?

    (edit for stupid typo)
    I think it was CS Lewis who observed that when people stop believing in religion they don't believe in nothing, they believe in anything.

    That sounds implausible to me. Seems more likely to suggest they don't believe in nothing, they believe in something else, rather than anything.

    There's plenty of things we may treat much like religious belief, in its place, but the use of 'anything' there seems like losing religious belief is inherently bad.

    It's like the trope you occasionally see that because many atheists believe things intensely, that humans have an inherent need to believe things, that shows they are missing a belief in god and overcompensating (I heard this last year at an event).
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,358

    Taz said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy481jwjljjo

    I think that Sam Kerr was the author of her own misfortune.

    It's hard not to conclude that they were pissed and behaved badly, and seem to be rather surprised that there were consequences to their actions.
    She sounds like an arsehole drunk who was outraged at not being believed, which I doubt is unique with footballers of any gender in that situation, though being an arsehole in itself should not be a crime.
    If being an arsehole were a crime...

    fuck me, there'd be some by-elections...
    I have no doubt, however, that many people think being an arsehole is, or should be, a crime.

    Sadly, in some cases, they may well be right!
    I am ok with it being a crime, provided I am the arbiter of being an arsehole.

    Don’t thank me for holding the door? Prison.

    Play music out loud on the train? Prison.
    Funny, I don't remember a 'Biggles enforces a police state' book.

    Maybe that was 1956's - 'Biggles takes charge.


    Leading to 1963's - 'Biggles takes it rough'.
    His short lived and undistinguished foray into porn?
    That was 'Biggles' Camel Hump.'
    A focker on every page.
    Did Biggles say ‘these fockers were in Messerschmitts’ ?
    Were there any Messerschmitts in WW1?

    #PBpendantry
    biggles fought in both wars I believe pbbiggerpederantry
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,909

    Wicked! I is here in da North Ilford Ghetto, hangin' wid me bitches!

    Sunny P
    :lol:

    Sunil, we all know "me bitches" = "your mum"....
    South Ilford Massive propaganda!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,481
    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    geoffw said:

    Yvette Cooper's proposal to ban pointy kitchen knives was mooted twenty years ago in the BMJ and supported by chef Anthony Worral Thompson
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7508404.stm

    All it will achieve is more expensive kitchen knives as production will have to be adapted for those blades destined for UK market compared to rest of the world.
    No it won’t.
    Non pointy knives are already quite common.
    So let’s tackle the symptom but not the cause.
    Pointy kitchen knives are a symptom?
    He means the reason people want to kill each other...if they don't use knives there are a million ways to do it unless you want to ban for example cricket bats too
    Oh yes, I see. The "tools" then. We're tackling the tools not the root cause.
    A tool. Singular. There are many tools used to exact vengeance and take a life. Knives will simply be supplanted by something else. These people have no regard for others lives do you seriously think a half wit bannjng the sale of knives with pointed ends will stop Stan the Stabber or Dan the Daggerman from Dagenham getting a tool to exact brutal justice against someone who dissed them.
    While that's true, one only has to look at the US to discover that if you make it a little harder to find a lethal weapon, then you will prevent at least a few murders.
    You deter maybe the "in the moment ones" where they have a weapon on them....however as I said if they were going to carry a knife...they will now carry a screwdriver, an awl etc both of which are actually better stabbing weapons. A wide bladed knife if not used properly tends to get hooked up on ribs and most stabbers need tuition on the best way to use one
    I'm not saying you will deter all - or even the majority - of crimes. I'm merely pointing out that the logical conclusion of the argument that "well, they'd always find something else they could use to kill" is that places where the local criminals went around touting AK47s would be no less safe than Balham on a Saturday night.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,481
    Pagan2 said:

    Taz said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy481jwjljjo

    I think that Sam Kerr was the author of her own misfortune.

    It's hard not to conclude that they were pissed and behaved badly, and seem to be rather surprised that there were consequences to their actions.
    She sounds like an arsehole drunk who was outraged at not being believed, which I doubt is unique with footballers of any gender in that situation, though being an arsehole in itself should not be a crime.
    If being an arsehole were a crime...

    fuck me, there'd be some by-elections...
    I have no doubt, however, that many people think being an arsehole is, or should be, a crime.

    Sadly, in some cases, they may well be right!
    I am ok with it being a crime, provided I am the arbiter of being an arsehole.

    Don’t thank me for holding the door? Prison.

    Play music out loud on the train? Prison.
    Funny, I don't remember a 'Biggles enforces a police state' book.

    Maybe that was 1956's - 'Biggles takes charge.


    Leading to 1963's - 'Biggles takes it rough'.
    His short lived and undistinguished foray into porn?
    That was 'Biggles' Camel Hump.'
    A focker on every page.
    Did Biggles say ‘these fockers were in Messerschmitts’ ?
    Were there any Messerschmitts in WW1?

    #PBpendantry
    biggles fought in both wars I believe pbbiggerpederantry
    Albeit the Second World War books aren't a patch on the WW1 ones.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,446

    On topic, I agree Streeting is probably a lay. For one thing, Labour will really, really want a female leader after an unbroken succession of white men.

    Ed Miliband.
    He was the future once!
    It's a rare politician who can be in office, then out of it for 14 years, and then still be at the top again.

    I'm not sure Ed M is worthy of doing that, but he has managed it.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,604
    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    geoffw said:

    Yvette Cooper's proposal to ban pointy kitchen knives was mooted twenty years ago in the BMJ and supported by chef Anthony Worral Thompson
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7508404.stm

    All it will achieve is more expensive kitchen knives as production will have to be adapted for those blades destined for UK market compared to rest of the world.
    No it won’t.
    Non pointy knives are already quite common.
    So let’s tackle the symptom but not the cause.
    Pointy kitchen knives are a symptom?
    He means the reason people want to kill each other...if they don't use knives there are a million ways to do it unless you want to ban for example cricket bats too
    Oh yes, I see. The "tools" then. We're tackling the tools not the root cause.
    A tool. Singular. There are many tools used to exact vengeance and take a life. Knives will simply be supplanted by something else. These people have no regard for others lives do you seriously think a half wit bannjng the sale of knives with pointed ends will stop Stan the Stabber or Dan the Daggerman from Dagenham getting a tool to exact brutal justice against someone who dissed them.
    While that's true, one only has to look at the US to discover that if you make it a little harder to find a lethal weapon, then you will prevent at least a few murders.
    But where do you stop ? A kitchen knife isn’t a lethal weapon. It’s a cooking utensil that can be misused as one. What about screwdrivers. Chisels, or any other number of household implements that can be misused.

    It also does nothing to stop, or minimise, why these issues happen in the first place. We’ve had kitchen knives with pointed ends for years yet we have not had this level of stabbings until relatively recently. Making knives round on the end doesn’t change that.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,622
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Taz said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy481jwjljjo

    I think that Sam Kerr was the author of her own misfortune.

    It's hard not to conclude that they were pissed and behaved badly, and seem to be rather surprised that there were consequences to their actions.
    She sounds like an arsehole drunk who was outraged at not being believed, which I doubt is unique with footballers of any gender in that situation, though being an arsehole in itself should not be a crime.
    If being an arsehole were a crime...

    fuck me, there'd be some by-elections...
    I have no doubt, however, that many people think being an arsehole is, or should be, a crime.

    Sadly, in some cases, they may well be right!
    I am ok with it being a crime, provided I am the arbiter of being an arsehole.

    Don’t thank me for holding the door? Prison.

    Play music out loud on the train? Prison.
    Funny, I don't remember a 'Biggles enforces a police state' book.

    Maybe that was 1956's - 'Biggles takes charge.


    Leading to 1963's - 'Biggles takes it rough'.
    His short lived and undistinguished foray into porn?
    That was 'Biggles' Camel Hump.'
    A focker on every page.
    Did Biggles say ‘these fockers were in Messerschmitts’ ?
    Were there any Messerschmitts in WW1?

    #PBpendantry
    biggles fought in both wars I believe pbbiggerpederantry
    Albeit the Second World War books aren't a patch on the WW1 ones.
    Spitfire Parade is very much a patch on the WW1 stories- more plagiarised than a bloody Golbert and Sullivan opera.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,358
    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
    Take Trump seriously but not literally and work out the possibilities from there.

    Can anyone tell us what is the best plan as yet from anyone with power but who isn't Trump?
    Stick with a 2-state solution. Put pressure on Israel to accept it. The US could do this if they wanted to.
    No, they couldn’t

    After October 7 there is no two state solution. It’s done

    So what’s next? The only world leader offering ANY future to the Palestinians is - irony of ironies - Donald Trump
    What future?

    He's offering them a forced relocation to the desert whilst providing the Israelis with more bombs. No doubt as soon as they move they will be bombed and once they settle they will be bombed. What choice?

    There was a Israeli spokeswoman on the WATO who's rhetoric was indistinguishable from Nazi pamphlets. And this is a spokeswoman. Imagine what is said behind the scenes. Hopefully the Arabs will now understand that America will always support Israeli aggression. And Israel will always want more.
    More security? More ways to stop terrorists murdering, abducting, raping? Lots of what Israel has done in the name of responding to 7th October can be seen as over the top, barbaric, a step too far. For sure. But then Hamas sought this out. They sewed the wind. What did they think would happen?
    Why stop at Oct 7th, the history goes back decades.
    Yes, it does, but Oct 7th was what caused the latest flare up in a long line of hate.

    At some point people need to sit down together with their enemies and talk. Its happened in Northern Ireland thankfully. Why not in the ME?
    I suppose one advantage in Nirthern Ireland was that an increasing number of people didn't regard themselves as Protestant or Catholic, or even if they did, didn't think that defined them.any more.
    I was musing on this last night in the context of Islamophobia. I think people have a lot more issues with Islam (and muslims in general) because of the coupling of Islam to the state. Islamic countries tend to have their religion at the heart of government and everyday life, in a way that has not been the case in the West for a very long time. So in terms of culture an influx of x muslims feels more threatening than an influx of Budhists, for instance. It feels inevitable in the UK that religion fades away (as we become more rational? Is that a stretch?) Has this transition started for Islam yet? Was it their in Iran in the 1970's?

    (edit for stupid typo)
    Yes, it's a stretch.

    I think it was CS Lewis who observed that when people stop believing in religion they don't believe in nothing, they believe in anything.

    Empirically, that seems to be what happens at least in our society.
    Really?

    I think the evidence is that those espouse belief in God are more likely to believe in things like tarot cards.
    Certainly more disposed to believe something like dungeons and dragons or harry potter leads people to sacrificing virgins to his satanic majesty. (Quite where they think you find virgins in this day and age is never explained)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,481
    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    geoffw said:

    Yvette Cooper's proposal to ban pointy kitchen knives was mooted twenty years ago in the BMJ and supported by chef Anthony Worral Thompson
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7508404.stm

    All it will achieve is more expensive kitchen knives as production will have to be adapted for those blades destined for UK market compared to rest of the world.
    No it won’t.
    Non pointy knives are already quite common.
    So let’s tackle the symptom but not the cause.
    Pointy kitchen knives are a symptom?
    He means the reason people want to kill each other...if they don't use knives there are a million ways to do it unless you want to ban for example cricket bats too
    Oh yes, I see. The "tools" then. We're tackling the tools not the root cause.
    A tool. Singular. There are many tools used to exact vengeance and take a life. Knives will simply be supplanted by something else. These people have no regard for others lives do you seriously think a half wit bannjng the sale of knives with pointed ends will stop Stan the Stabber or Dan the Daggerman from Dagenham getting a tool to exact brutal justice against someone who dissed them.
    While that's true, one only has to look at the US to discover that if you make it a little harder to find a lethal weapon, then you will prevent at least a few murders.
    True, but this feels like those joke suggestions or lowering the speed limit to 5 mph to eliminate crashes - not as extreme as that, but in terms of whether it is really proportionate.
    A good point. (Geddit?)

    Is the reduction in deaths worth the diminution in personal freedoms, especially given how rare knife crimes are.

    I am converted. Free knives for all!
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,604

    Taz said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy481jwjljjo

    I think that Sam Kerr was the author of her own misfortune.

    It's hard not to conclude that they were pissed and behaved badly, and seem to be rather surprised that there were consequences to their actions.
    She sounds like an arsehole drunk who was outraged at not being believed, which I doubt is unique with footballers of any gender in that situation, though being an arsehole in itself should not be a crime.
    If being an arsehole were a crime...

    fuck me, there'd be some by-elections...
    I have no doubt, however, that many people think being an arsehole is, or should be, a crime.

    Sadly, in some cases, they may well be right!
    I am ok with it being a crime, provided I am the arbiter of being an arsehole.

    Don’t thank me for holding the door? Prison.

    Play music out loud on the train? Prison.
    Funny, I don't remember a 'Biggles enforces a police state' book.

    Maybe that was 1956's - 'Biggles takes charge.


    Leading to 1963's - 'Biggles takes it rough'.
    His short lived and undistinguished foray into porn?
    That was 'Biggles' Camel Hump.'
    A focker on every page.
    Did Biggles say ‘these fockers were in Messerschmitts’ ?
    Were there any Messerschmitts in WW1?

    #PBpendantry
    Could you please just go with it for the purposes of the joke, as Alan Partridge once said
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,901
    rcs1000 said:

    boulay said:

    biggles said:

    When we ban pointy knives, and it doesn’t work, will we come for the screwdrivers? How will we stop people breaking knives to get a point? What about good old fashioned toothbrush shivs? Will we ban bottles?

    Don’t tell them about cars - if they find out they are responsible for around 7 times more deaths in the UK we’re all walking and Dura Ace will have nothing to live for.

    Don't be silly, he'll still have his titanium Brompton.
    A Titanium Brompton sounds like an upmarket pegging device for your more discerning gentleman.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,911
    Fishing said:

    kinabalu said:

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    MJW said:

    MJW said:

    On topic, I seriously doubt Streeting will succeed Starmer anyway for two reasons, firstly the left and soft left of Labour really don't like him. The person who succeeds Starmer - either in power or as opposition leader after a loss - is likely to be someone who can at least put feelers out to those people, and someone who makes the party feel better about itself over someone telling it hard truths about power.

    Secondly, he's not a woman. That may sound daft but Labour is quite obviously embarrassed now about never electing a female leade. Given the Chancellor, DPM, Home Secretary, education secretary, and plenty of the more prominent mid-ranking ministers or backbenchers who could try an insurgent campaign are women, there's not going to be a good excuse that the bloke is the only viable option this time unless the field thins out massively.

    Same reason Burnham may struggle should he ever get back to Westminster - though the first point doesn't apply - so maybe slightly better place if he can become an MP.

    "Labour is quite obviously embarrassed now about never electing a female leade." - Is this true? Are we not beyond the simplistic idea of it must be 'x' or 'y'? Why not the best person for the job? That's partly why I support pushing back on EDI (sorry, that should be DEI now, apparently, missed the memo).
    Of course the best person for the job and all that. But leadership elections often aren't about the best person for the job (as different people have very different criteria) - they're about who is the best ideological fit for a party's idea of itself at anyone time, what came before and whether you want continuity or change, and who can unite different factions enough to win.

    Look at the recent Tory leadership election - which ended up a choice between a dud and a slightly sharper more Maciavellian dud. The membership chose the sui generis dud. Labour previously chose Ed Miliband and Jeremy Corbyn. The Tories have picked Liz Truss, IDS, plus Boris - someone who was the right fit electorally but disastrous in the end due to failings that many knew should be disqualifying long before he was in the cabinet let alone stood for the Tory leadership.

    My point is that perhaps unlike at some points in the past, Labour activists will quite clearly be well disposed towards the idea of electing a female leader next time, and will have plenty of options who either meet the threshold of experience in big government jobs (if are looking for that), or a strong media presence if want an outsider.

    That likely means a male candidate will have to be outstanding and popular with the membership to win. Even if you think the former, Streeting isn't the latter. If it's effectively him versus Rayner, say, he won't win.
    I agree with what you're saying but if Streeting is a standout - ie it's clear he has far more 'it' than anybody else - I think he has a good chance. I wouldn't rule him out on gender grounds, is what I mean, despite it being a minus for him.
    The gender bias is really strong in history. Of the six female candidates, Yvette Cooper and Rebecca Long-Bailey are the only two not to finish last (and they beat two of the others).
    Yep. Same in America. Two strong and viable female candidates for president yet the same male buffoon was preferred to both. Go figure.

    The Tories, to their credit, are a standout on this.
    Assuming you're talking about Hilary Clinton as one of those female candidates, she WAS actually preferred to Donald Trump. It was the bizarre and screwy 18th century Electoral College that denied her victory, not the votes of the Deplorables.
    Good point yes.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,358
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    geoffw said:

    Yvette Cooper's proposal to ban pointy kitchen knives was mooted twenty years ago in the BMJ and supported by chef Anthony Worral Thompson
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7508404.stm

    All it will achieve is more expensive kitchen knives as production will have to be adapted for those blades destined for UK market compared to rest of the world.
    No it won’t.
    Non pointy knives are already quite common.
    So let’s tackle the symptom but not the cause.
    Pointy kitchen knives are a symptom?
    He means the reason people want to kill each other...if they don't use knives there are a million ways to do it unless you want to ban for example cricket bats too
    Oh yes, I see. The "tools" then. We're tackling the tools not the root cause.
    A tool. Singular. There are many tools used to exact vengeance and take a life. Knives will simply be supplanted by something else. These people have no regard for others lives do you seriously think a half wit bannjng the sale of knives with pointed ends will stop Stan the Stabber or Dan the Daggerman from Dagenham getting a tool to exact brutal justice against someone who dissed them.
    While that's true, one only has to look at the US to discover that if you make it a little harder to find a lethal weapon, then you will prevent at least a few murders.
    You deter maybe the "in the moment ones" where they have a weapon on them....however as I said if they were going to carry a knife...they will now carry a screwdriver, an awl etc both of which are actually better stabbing weapons. A wide bladed knife if not used properly tends to get hooked up on ribs and most stabbers need tuition on the best way to use one
    I'm not saying you will deter all - or even the majority - of crimes. I'm merely pointing out that the logical conclusion of the argument that "well, they'd always find something else they could use to kill" is that places where the local criminals went around touting AK47s would be no less safe than Balham on a Saturday night.
    ah well you see guns are a different category of weapon...you can kill easily lots of people with an ak47 from a distance....a knife is up close, personal and much more sensual
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,604
    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    geoffw said:

    Yvette Cooper's proposal to ban pointy kitchen knives was mooted twenty years ago in the BMJ and supported by chef Anthony Worral Thompson
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7508404.stm

    All it will achieve is more expensive kitchen knives as production will have to be adapted for those blades destined for UK market compared to rest of the world.
    No it won’t.
    Non pointy knives are already quite common.
    So let’s tackle the symptom but not the cause.
    Pointy kitchen knives are a symptom?
    He means the reason people want to kill each other...if they don't use knives there are a million ways to do it unless you want to ban for example cricket bats too
    Oh yes, I see. The "tools" then. We're tackling the tools not the root cause.
    A tool. Singular. There are many tools used to exact vengeance and take a life. Knives will simply be supplanted by something else. These people have no regard for others lives do you seriously think a half wit bannjng the sale of knives with pointed ends will stop Stan the Stabber or Dan the Daggerman from Dagenham getting a tool to exact brutal justice against someone who dissed them.
    While that's true, one only has to look at the US to discover that if you make it a little harder to find a lethal weapon, then you will prevent at least a few murders.
    You deter maybe the "in the moment ones" where they have a weapon on them....however as I said if they were going to carry a knife...they will now carry a screwdriver, an awl etc both of which are actually better stabbing weapons. A wide bladed knife if not used properly tends to get hooked up on ribs and most stabbers need tuition on the best way to use one
    It’s also not uncommon for the blade carrier to end up having his, or her, could be a woman, used against them.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,622
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy481jwjljjo

    I think that Sam Kerr was the author of her own misfortune.

    It's hard not to conclude that they were pissed and behaved badly, and seem to be rather surprised that there were consequences to their actions.
    She sounds like an arsehole drunk who was outraged at not being believed, which I doubt is unique with footballers of any gender in that situation, though being an arsehole in itself should not be a crime.
    If being an arsehole were a crime...

    fuck me, there'd be some by-elections...
    I have no doubt, however, that many people think being an arsehole is, or should be, a crime.

    Sadly, in some cases, they may well be right!
    I am ok with it being a crime, provided I am the arbiter of being an arsehole.

    Don’t thank me for holding the door? Prison.

    Play music out loud on the train? Prison.
    Funny, I don't remember a 'Biggles enforces a police state' book.

    Maybe that was 1956's - 'Biggles takes charge.


    Leading to 1963's - 'Biggles takes it rough'.
    His short lived and undistinguished foray into porn?
    That was 'Biggles' Camel Hump.'
    A focker on every page.
    Did Biggles say ‘these fockers were in Messerschmitts’ ?
    Were there any Messerschmitts in WW1?

    #PBpendantry
    Could you please just go with it for the purposes of the joke, as Alan Partridge once said
    Compromise:

    'These Fokkers were Albatroses.'
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,481
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Taz said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy481jwjljjo

    I think that Sam Kerr was the author of her own misfortune.

    It's hard not to conclude that they were pissed and behaved badly, and seem to be rather surprised that there were consequences to their actions.
    She sounds like an arsehole drunk who was outraged at not being believed, which I doubt is unique with footballers of any gender in that situation, though being an arsehole in itself should not be a crime.
    If being an arsehole were a crime...

    fuck me, there'd be some by-elections...
    I have no doubt, however, that many people think being an arsehole is, or should be, a crime.

    Sadly, in some cases, they may well be right!
    I am ok with it being a crime, provided I am the arbiter of being an arsehole.

    Don’t thank me for holding the door? Prison.

    Play music out loud on the train? Prison.
    Funny, I don't remember a 'Biggles enforces a police state' book.

    Maybe that was 1956's - 'Biggles takes charge.


    Leading to 1963's - 'Biggles takes it rough'.
    His short lived and undistinguished foray into porn?
    That was 'Biggles' Camel Hump.'
    A focker on every page.
    Did Biggles say ‘these fockers were in Messerschmitts’ ?
    Were there any Messerschmitts in WW1?

    #PBpendantry
    biggles fought in both wars I believe pbbiggerpederantry
    Albeit the Second World War books aren't a patch on the WW1 ones.
    Spitfire Parade is very much a patch on the WW1 stories- more plagiarised than a bloody Golbert and Sullivan opera.
    I read that a very long time ago, so don't remember it well.

    However, the WW1 books I have read recently, and they hold up remarkably well. In particular, there isn't a lot of the glorification of war in there, and there's a lot of people cracking under the pressure. The White Fokker is a particular favourite of mine.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,622
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Taz said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy481jwjljjo

    I think that Sam Kerr was the author of her own misfortune.

    It's hard not to conclude that they were pissed and behaved badly, and seem to be rather surprised that there were consequences to their actions.
    She sounds like an arsehole drunk who was outraged at not being believed, which I doubt is unique with footballers of any gender in that situation, though being an arsehole in itself should not be a crime.
    If being an arsehole were a crime...

    fuck me, there'd be some by-elections...
    I have no doubt, however, that many people think being an arsehole is, or should be, a crime.

    Sadly, in some cases, they may well be right!
    I am ok with it being a crime, provided I am the arbiter of being an arsehole.

    Don’t thank me for holding the door? Prison.

    Play music out loud on the train? Prison.
    Funny, I don't remember a 'Biggles enforces a police state' book.

    Maybe that was 1956's - 'Biggles takes charge.


    Leading to 1963's - 'Biggles takes it rough'.
    His short lived and undistinguished foray into porn?
    That was 'Biggles' Camel Hump.'
    A focker on every page.
    Did Biggles say ‘these fockers were in Messerschmitts’ ?
    Were there any Messerschmitts in WW1?

    #PBpendantry
    biggles fought in both wars I believe pbbiggerpederantry
    Albeit the Second World War books aren't a patch on the WW1 ones.
    Spitfire Parade is very much a patch on the WW1 stories- more plagiarised than a bloody Golbert and Sullivan opera.
    I read that a very long time ago, so don't remember it well.

    However, the WW1 books I have read recently, and they hold up remarkably well. In particular, there isn't a lot of the glorification of war in there, and there's a lot of people cracking under the pressure. The White Fokker is a particular favourite of mine.
    Spitfire Parade is basically an unconvincing rehash of some of the less gritty WW1 stories. Including the one with the Christmas turkey.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,825
    HYUFD said:

    MJW said:

    On topic, I seriously doubt Streeting will succeed Starmer anyway for two reasons, firstly the left and soft left of Labour really don't like him. The person who succeeds Starmer - either in power or as opposition leader after a loss - is likely to be someone who can at least put feelers out to those people, and someone who makes the party feel better about itself over someone telling it hard truths about power.

    Secondly, he's not a woman. That may sound daft but Labour is quite obviously embarrassed now about never electing a female leade. Given the Chancellor, DPM, Home Secretary, education secretary, and plenty of the more prominent mid-ranking ministers or backbenchers who could try an insurgent campaign are women, there's not going to be a good excuse that the bloke is the only viable option this time unless the field thins out massively.

    Same reason Burnham may struggle should he ever get back to Westminster - though the first point doesn't apply - so maybe slightly better place if he can become an MP.

    Rayner would be strong favourite to succeed Starmer if he loses the next general election or is replaced beforehand.

    Though Rayner's seat is a Reform target seat unlike Starmer's
    FFS , bring back Boris if that big duffer ever gets near power
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,481
    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    geoffw said:

    Yvette Cooper's proposal to ban pointy kitchen knives was mooted twenty years ago in the BMJ and supported by chef Anthony Worral Thompson
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7508404.stm

    All it will achieve is more expensive kitchen knives as production will have to be adapted for those blades destined for UK market compared to rest of the world.
    No it won’t.
    Non pointy knives are already quite common.
    So let’s tackle the symptom but not the cause.
    Pointy kitchen knives are a symptom?
    He means the reason people want to kill each other...if they don't use knives there are a million ways to do it unless you want to ban for example cricket bats too
    Oh yes, I see. The "tools" then. We're tackling the tools not the root cause.
    A tool. Singular. There are many tools used to exact vengeance and take a life. Knives will simply be supplanted by something else. These people have no regard for others lives do you seriously think a half wit bannjng the sale of knives with pointed ends will stop Stan the Stabber or Dan the Daggerman from Dagenham getting a tool to exact brutal justice against someone who dissed them.
    While that's true, one only has to look at the US to discover that if you make it a little harder to find a lethal weapon, then you will prevent at least a few murders.
    You deter maybe the "in the moment ones" where they have a weapon on them....however as I said if they were going to carry a knife...they will now carry a screwdriver, an awl etc both of which are actually better stabbing weapons. A wide bladed knife if not used properly tends to get hooked up on ribs and most stabbers need tuition on the best way to use one
    I'm not saying you will deter all - or even the majority - of crimes. I'm merely pointing out that the logical conclusion of the argument that "well, they'd always find something else they could use to kill" is that places where the local criminals went around touting AK47s would be no less safe than Balham on a Saturday night.
    ah well you see guns are a different category of weapon...you can kill easily lots of people with an ak47 from a distance....a knife is up close, personal and much more sensual
    Guns for show. Knives for a pro.

    https://youtu.be/Z0mYHjFlh74?si=OxeOMR1ixF-0W16L
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,358
    Taz said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    geoffw said:

    Yvette Cooper's proposal to ban pointy kitchen knives was mooted twenty years ago in the BMJ and supported by chef Anthony Worral Thompson
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7508404.stm

    All it will achieve is more expensive kitchen knives as production will have to be adapted for those blades destined for UK market compared to rest of the world.
    No it won’t.
    Non pointy knives are already quite common.
    So let’s tackle the symptom but not the cause.
    Pointy kitchen knives are a symptom?
    He means the reason people want to kill each other...if they don't use knives there are a million ways to do it unless you want to ban for example cricket bats too
    Oh yes, I see. The "tools" then. We're tackling the tools not the root cause.
    A tool. Singular. There are many tools used to exact vengeance and take a life. Knives will simply be supplanted by something else. These people have no regard for others lives do you seriously think a half wit bannjng the sale of knives with pointed ends will stop Stan the Stabber or Dan the Daggerman from Dagenham getting a tool to exact brutal justice against someone who dissed them.
    While that's true, one only has to look at the US to discover that if you make it a little harder to find a lethal weapon, then you will prevent at least a few murders.
    You deter maybe the "in the moment ones" where they have a weapon on them....however as I said if they were going to carry a knife...they will now carry a screwdriver, an awl etc both of which are actually better stabbing weapons. A wide bladed knife if not used properly tends to get hooked up on ribs and most stabbers need tuition on the best way to use one
    It’s also not uncommon for the blade carrier to end up having his, or her, could be a woman, used against them.
    yes people carrying weapons they don't know how to use will often find that
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,481
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Taz said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy481jwjljjo

    I think that Sam Kerr was the author of her own misfortune.

    It's hard not to conclude that they were pissed and behaved badly, and seem to be rather surprised that there were consequences to their actions.
    She sounds like an arsehole drunk who was outraged at not being believed, which I doubt is unique with footballers of any gender in that situation, though being an arsehole in itself should not be a crime.
    If being an arsehole were a crime...

    fuck me, there'd be some by-elections...
    I have no doubt, however, that many people think being an arsehole is, or should be, a crime.

    Sadly, in some cases, they may well be right!
    I am ok with it being a crime, provided I am the arbiter of being an arsehole.

    Don’t thank me for holding the door? Prison.

    Play music out loud on the train? Prison.
    Funny, I don't remember a 'Biggles enforces a police state' book.

    Maybe that was 1956's - 'Biggles takes charge.


    Leading to 1963's - 'Biggles takes it rough'.
    His short lived and undistinguished foray into porn?
    That was 'Biggles' Camel Hump.'
    A focker on every page.
    Did Biggles say ‘these fockers were in Messerschmitts’ ?
    Were there any Messerschmitts in WW1?

    #PBpendantry
    biggles fought in both wars I believe pbbiggerpederantry
    Albeit the Second World War books aren't a patch on the WW1 ones.
    Spitfire Parade is very much a patch on the WW1 stories- more plagiarised than a bloody Golbert and Sullivan opera.
    I read that a very long time ago, so don't remember it well.

    However, the WW1 books I have read recently, and they hold up remarkably well. In particular, there isn't a lot of the glorification of war in there, and there's a lot of people cracking under the pressure. The White Fokker is a particular favourite of mine.
    Spitfire Parade is basically an unconvincing rehash of some of the less gritty WW1 stories. Including the one with the Christmas turkey.
    Ah, I always remember that one. Poor bloody Turkey.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,667
    edited February 5
    I'd suggest one of the reasons that knife crime exercises us so much is positive: it's because gun crime is relatively rare in the UK, for a variety of reasons including accessibility. So knives are the chosen weapon of many ne'er-do-wells.

    I share the scepticism about banning pointed knives. However, amidst all the scathing comments on here about the government's approach, I can't recall reading a single sensible suggestion that would reduce knife crime, either the act itself or the root causes. It's easy to oppose - what's the solution?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,481
    boulay said:

    rcs1000 said:

    boulay said:

    biggles said:

    When we ban pointy knives, and it doesn’t work, will we come for the screwdrivers? How will we stop people breaking knives to get a point? What about good old fashioned toothbrush shivs? Will we ban bottles?

    Don’t tell them about cars - if they find out they are responsible for around 7 times more deaths in the UK we’re all walking and Dura Ace will have nothing to live for.

    Don't be silly, he'll still have his titanium Brompton.
    A Titanium Brompton sounds like an upmarket pegging device for your more discerning gentleman.
    I wouldn't let @Dura_Ace hear you say that.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,587
    https://x.com/warmonitor3/status/1887223461900169428

    Russian sources are pledging Donald Trump has increased recent aid supplies to Ukraine despite counter signalling in communications.

    Significant amounts of equipment are alleged to have been sent to Ukraine.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,481

    I'd suggest one of the reasons that knife crime exercises us so much is positive: it's because gun crime is relatively rare in the UK, for a variety of reasons including accessibility. So knives are the chosen weapon of many ne'er-do-wells.

    I share the scepticism about banning pointed knives. However, amidst all the scathing comments on here about the government's approach, I can't recall reading a single sensible suggestion that would reduce knife crime, either the act itself or the root causes. It's easy to oppose -what's the solution?

    Given how incompetent the government are, shouldn't they instead have a policy of increasing knife crime?
This discussion has been closed.