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Streeting’s little local difficulties could stop him succeeding Starmer – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,318
edited February 18 in General
imageStreeting’s little local difficulties could stop him succeeding Starmer – politicalbetting.com

This morning I wrote a piece on the next Prime Minister betting market and I thought the value lay with somebody on the Labour side, but who?

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,487
    First first since the last time.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,561
    Red Chicken Run.

    The new MP for Bootle. Wes Streeting PM.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999
    edited February 5
    Taz said:

    Red Chicken Run.

    The new MP for Bootle. Wes Streeting PM.

    Isn't it called doing a "Ric Holden"?

    I don't believe there is any such thing as a safe Labour seat. Attacked from all angles, Tories, LDs, Greens, Reform and Corbyn Independents.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 791
    Will Israel / Palestine still be as high profile in 28/29? Depressing to think it might be...
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,561

    Taz said:

    Red Chicken Run.

    The new MP for Bootle. Wes Streeting PM.

    Isn't it called doing a "Ric Holden"?
    It pre-dates Ric, with a silent P.

    Norman Lamont did it in 1997 :smiley:
  • Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Red Chicken Run.

    The new MP for Bootle. Wes Streeting PM.

    Isn't it called doing a "Ric Holden"?
    It pre-dates Ric, with a silent P.

    Norman Lamont did it in 1997 :smiley:
    The difference between 2024 and 1997 was that there were significant boundary changes which allowed chicken runs to happen, boundary changes aren't expected for 2029.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,104
    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,232
    Taz said:

    carnforth said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Kay Burley has announced, live on air, her departure from the increasingly irrelevant Sky News.

    Retirement or heave-ho? Ian King has been given his P45 in the past week. Talk is plenty more of the high profile ones are going to be also out of a job due to loses of £100 million a year.

    I believe the deal new owners struck with government to ensure Sky News exists runs out in 2-3 years.
    BigG will be devastated.
    However, he’ll still have GBN and Guido for an unbiased take on the news.
    Also Channel4 news and current affairs, a left wing version of GB news.
    Does BigG watch Channel 4, though?
    Does anyone, their ratings are poorer than that of Netflix, Youtube and some Freeview channels
    I do not understand @Gardenwalker obsession with me to be honest
    Take it as a backhanded compliment.
    You are one of the grandees of PB.

    Lesser posters are too forgettable to actually satirise.
    Well I must say I have never seen myself in that way

    Mind you I didn't post yesterday as my wife and I decided to have lunch in Euston so took the morning Avanti service that took just 3 hours, had lunch, and came home on the 3.00pm service back to Colwyn Bay

    And we thoroughly enjoyed it, maybe my wife and I are a wee bit eccentric !!
    Did you pop into the Doric Arch for a frothing pint of Summer lightning. A true joy.
    The cancel HS2 types hang out in the Bree Louise.
    Does it do Summer Lightning ?
    Alas, no longer:

    https://protzonbeer.co.uk/comments/2023/02/10/bree-louise-did-this-pub-have-to-die

    (The best summer lightening is at the Glue Pot in Swindon.)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,883
    Yes, precarious seat, quite right wing, not a woman. He's no shoo-in.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,049
    Dopermean said:

    Will Israel / Palestine still be as high profile in 28/29? Depressing to think it might be...

    Who knows? There probably won't be actual fighting (simply because there usually isn't) but the fundamental problem isn't going to be resolved.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,423
    It is impossible to calculate the possible salience of the 'usually Labour but not Labour because Gaza/Israel/middle east' vote in 2029. Too many moving parts and linked and unlinked contingencies.

    However, a nice double for Ladbrokes would be 'Two Selwyn historians to be their respective party leaders, Labour and SNP, by, say, 2030'. And what a nice change it would make from Oxford PPEs.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,493
    edited February 5
    Realistically, Streeting isn’t under any threat in his (and my former) home patch. Gaza won’t be such an issue come the next election, and his area is sufficiently mixed that without such a salient international issue, no independent challenge will be able to get much traction. The Tories are flat on their backs in London and the LibDems don’t have the base to mount any credible challenge, and if Reform stands (for example former bumbling Bridge ward councillor, now emerging London spokesman Alex Wilson) that simply nails on a Labour win. Since Bridge is now in IDS’s seat, perhaps Wilson will instead bring about IDS’s long awaited demise?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,125
    I've met Streeting through a mutual friend and I think he is absolutely brilliant, one of the few genuine stars in British politics right now. I really hope he can hold his seat because we need people like him.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,049
    On topic, I agree Streeting is probably a lay. For one thing, Labour will really, really want a female leader after an unbroken succession of white men.
  • Social Democrats fight back.

    Europe Elects
    @EuropeElects
    Germany, You-Gov poll:

    CDU/CSU-EPP: 29%
    AfD-ESN: 22% (-1)
    SPD-S&D: 18% (+3)
    GRÜNE-G/EFA: 12% (-1)
    LINKE-LEFT: 6% (+1)
    BSW-NI: 6%
    FDP-RE: 4% (+1)

    +/- vs. 24-27 January 2025

    Fieldwork: 31 January-4 February 2025
    Sample size: 2,181

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999

    On topic, I agree Streeting is probably a lay. For one thing, Labour will really, really want a female leader after an unbroken succession of white men.

    Although all the women runners and riders have the charisma of Brian Gould.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,458
    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @TOPPING

    What were the concessions that the US extracted out of Mexico and Canada?

    And what do you think the impact of Trump's actions has been on demand for US goods in those countries?

    Didn't Mexico agree to send 10,000 troops to the border (which politically I believe is important for Trump and his supporters); and as for Canada there is now going to be a US-Canada trade summit wherein presumably Trump/the US will agitate for whatever terms they deem favourable to them.
    Yes, they recommitted to send the troops that they had already committed to send to the border. In fact, they'd previously committed to 15,000. So Trump actually managed to talk them down.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,554
    edited February 5
    Interesting revelations about USAID funding media organisations like Politico and even the BBC.

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/1887149640350327191
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022

    On topic, I agree Streeting is probably a lay. For one thing, Labour will really, really want a female leader after an unbroken succession of white men.

    Ed Miliband.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,068
    Why would anyone do this ?

    The @uscensusbureau has taken down American Community Survey microdata...
    https://x.com/MaxGhenis/status/1886895884459270551
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,043

    I've met Streeting through a mutual friend and I think he is absolutely brilliant, one of the few genuine stars in British politics right now. I really hope he can hold his seat because we need people like him.

    He does strike me as being quite impressive.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,073

    I've met Streeting through a mutual friend and I think he is absolutely brilliant, one of the few genuine stars in British politics right now. I really hope he can hold his seat because we need people like him.

    I would post a wedding lunch photo with him on the table from a couple of years ago but it would be an invasion of privacy.

    I didn’t actually chat to him beyond a couple of brief greetings. I agree he is probably the best communicator on the front bench. Labour desperately needs more of what used to be known as minister for the Today programme.
  • Sean_F said:

    I've met Streeting through a mutual friend and I think he is absolutely brilliant, one of the few genuine stars in British politics right now. I really hope he can hold his seat because we need people like him.

    He does strike me as being quite impressive.
    He's a Cambridge man, the best of the best.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,156

    Interesting revelations about USAID funding media organisations like Politico and even the BBC.

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/1887149640350327191

    Your point is...?
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,561
    carnforth said:

    Taz said:

    carnforth said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Kay Burley has announced, live on air, her departure from the increasingly irrelevant Sky News.

    Retirement or heave-ho? Ian King has been given his P45 in the past week. Talk is plenty more of the high profile ones are going to be also out of a job due to loses of £100 million a year.

    I believe the deal new owners struck with government to ensure Sky News exists runs out in 2-3 years.
    BigG will be devastated.
    However, he’ll still have GBN and Guido for an unbiased take on the news.
    Also Channel4 news and current affairs, a left wing version of GB news.
    Does BigG watch Channel 4, though?
    Does anyone, their ratings are poorer than that of Netflix, Youtube and some Freeview channels
    I do not understand @Gardenwalker obsession with me to be honest
    Take it as a backhanded compliment.
    You are one of the grandees of PB.

    Lesser posters are too forgettable to actually satirise.
    Well I must say I have never seen myself in that way

    Mind you I didn't post yesterday as my wife and I decided to have lunch in Euston so took the morning Avanti service that took just 3 hours, had lunch, and came home on the 3.00pm service back to Colwyn Bay

    And we thoroughly enjoyed it, maybe my wife and I are a wee bit eccentric !!
    Did you pop into the Doric Arch for a frothing pint of Summer lightning. A true joy.
    The cancel HS2 types hang out in the Bree Louise.
    Does it do Summer Lightning ?
    Alas, no longer:

    https://protzonbeer.co.uk/comments/2023/02/10/bree-louise-did-this-pub-have-to-die

    (The best summer lightening is at the Glue Pot in Swindon.)
    If I am down that way I will certainly seek it out then.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,493
    edited February 5

    I've met Streeting through a mutual friend and I think he is absolutely brilliant, one of the few genuine stars in British politics right now. I really hope he can hold his seat because we need people like him.

    He's bright and his heart, if buried deep beneath Labour authoritarianism, tribalism, and careerist self-interest, is probably in the right place - but you overstate things just a tad.

    Anyhow, I have my reputation as the only person (with my team) to have defeated Streeting in an electoral contest to protect.

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 12,710

    Taz said:

    Red Chicken Run.

    The new MP for Bootle. Wes Streeting PM.

    Isn't it called doing a "Ric Holden"?

    I don't believe there is any such thing as a safe Labour seat. Attacked from all angles, Tories, LDs, Greens, Reform and Corbyn Independents.
    Bootle? They got 68.7% of the vote. Reform were in second on 12.2%. They got a higher percentage in Liverpool Walton, 70.6%, although a smaller majority.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,043
    edited February 5
    O/T, but averaging the most recent poll from eight pollsters gives Labour 25.2%, Reform 24.9%, Conservative 22.4%, Lib Dem 12.5%, Green 8.5%.

    Baxtered, that gives Labour 264, Conservative 145, Reform 113, Lib Dem 73, Green 4.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,561

    I've met Streeting through a mutual friend and I think he is absolutely brilliant, one of the few genuine stars in British politics right now. I really hope he can hold his seat because we need people like him.

    I suspect by the time the next election comes then the Gaza Loons will be somewhat neutered as hopefully the peace will endure.

    If not and the Gaza Loons get stronger we would have the joy of seeing Jess Phillips, the minister for talking about Jess Phillips, losing.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,104

    On topic, I agree Streeting is probably a lay. For one thing, Labour will really, really want a female leader after an unbroken succession of white men.

    Although all the women runners and riders have the charisma of Brian Gould.
    You've got a good memory!
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,335
    edited February 5

    On topic, I agree Streeting is probably a lay. For one thing, Labour will really, really want a female leader after an unbroken succession of white men.

    Do you think they will see the irony in trying to end discrimination by discriminating?

    Personally I doubt it. The woke tend to be overly sensitive to other people's inconsistencies and humourlessly blind to their own.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,561

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,870
    Streeting is about the only star in cabinet.
    Not that he’s necessarily achieved anything yet.

    Darren Jones, David Lammy, and Yvette Cooper have been “OK”.

    Rayner weirdly invisible, probably a good thing.

    Reeves and Phillipson very disappointing. Same as Nandy.

    Miliband is active but dangerous.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,068
    Fishing said:

    On topic, I agree Streeting is probably a lay. For one thing, Labour will really, really want a female leader after an unbroken succession of white men.

    Do you think they will see the irony in trying to end discrimination by discriminating?

    Personally I doubt it. The woke tend to be overly sensitive to other people's inconsistencies and humourlessly blind to their own.
    How does that make them different from the rest of humanity ?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,932
    edited February 5
    I think that if there was a Labour leadership election tomorrow, Rayner would win it prett easily.

    If there is an election at any time pre-GE, I'd also back Rayner.

    Post-GE defeat, probably someone not currently in the Cabinet

    Post-GE, two or three years into a new Labour government, Bridget Philipson, Darren Jones or Torsten Bell.
  • ManOfGwentManOfGwent Posts: 144
    edited February 5

    Streeting is about the only star in cabinet.
    Not that he’s necessarily achieved anything yet.

    Darren Jones, David Lammy, and Yvette Cooper have been “OK”.

    Rayner weirdly invisible, probably a good thing.

    Reeves and Phillipson very disappointing. Same as Nandy.

    Miliband is active but dangerous.

    If David Pay to give away Sovereign Territory Lammy and Yvette Ban Pointy Kitchen Knives Cooper have been OK then I'd dread to think what not OK is.
  • Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    Will we?

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2025/01/31/trump-defy-constitution-third-term-00200239
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,423
    Taz said:

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
    Take Trump seriously but not literally and work out the possibilities from there.

    Can anyone tell us what is the best plan as yet from anyone with power but who isn't Trump?
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,561
    Our Ange has allowed the following councils to cancel their elections

    Norfolk
    Suffolk
    Essex
    Thurrock
    Surrey
    East Sussex
    West Sussex
    Hampshire
    Isle of Wight
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,887
    Four MPs suspended by Labour for voting against the government on the two-child benefit cap have been readmitted into the parliamentary party.

    Labour has restored the whip to Richard Burgon, Ian Byrne, Imran Hussain and Rebecca Long-Bailey, after they spent just over six months as independents.

    Three others who rebelled in July's vote - John McDonnell, Apsana Begum and Zarah Sultana - remain suspended.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,553
    Rayner confirms the government will cancel county council elections this year in Sussex, Essex, Norfolk, Suffolk, Surrey and Hampshire and unitary elections in Thurrock and Isle of Wight to allow change to new Mayors and unitary councils

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14363483/Local-elections-POSTPONED-Middle-England-Rayner.html
  • Taz said:

    Our Ange has allowed the following councils to cancel their elections

    Norfolk
    Suffolk
    Essex
    Thurrock
    Surrey
    East Sussex
    West Sussex
    Hampshire
    Isle of Wight

    Boo, they’ve delayed JohnO’s inevitable landslide victory.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,104
    Taz said:

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
    You could argue that Trump is right, and it would make a good Riviera of the Eastern Med. However I agree with those who think the Palestinians are unlikely to leave voluntarily (unless substantially compensated) and even then where would they go? AIUI there isn't a lot left of either Jordan or Egypt which is really suitable for settlement.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,104
    HYUFD said:

    Rayner confirms the government will cancel county council elections this year in Sussex, Essex, Norfolk, Suffolk, Surrey and Hampshire and unitary elections in Thurrock and Isle of Wight to allow change to new Mayors and unitary councils

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14363483/Local-elections-POSTPONED-Middle-England-Rayner.html

    I understand a Green councillor in Essex is considering resigning and fighting a by-election on the day elections should have been held.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,328
    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @TOPPING

    What were the concessions that the US extracted out of Mexico and Canada?

    And what do you think the impact of Trump's actions has been on demand for US goods in those countries?

    Didn't Mexico agree to send 10,000 troops to the border (which politically I believe is important for Trump and his supporters); and as for Canada there is now going to be a US-Canada trade summit wherein presumably Trump/the US will agitate for whatever terms they deem favourable to them.
    Yes, they recommitted to send the troops that they had already committed to send to the border. In fact, they'd previously committed to 15,000. So Trump actually managed to talk them down.
    Whereas the casual at-a-glance headline is that he has secured 10,000 Mexican troops to be sent to the border.

    It's all about the visuals.

    Which tells you something about politics that you should already know.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,487

    Sean_F said:

    I've met Streeting through a mutual friend and I think he is absolutely brilliant, one of the few genuine stars in British politics right now. I really hope he can hold his seat because we need people like him.

    He does strike me as being quite impressive.
    He's a Cambridge man, the best of the best.
    I'm sure you know there hasn't been a light blue PM since Stanley Baldwin. It's now a vital part of the unwritten constitution.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,493
    Taz said:

    Our Ange has allowed the following councils to cancel their elections

    Norfolk
    Suffolk
    Essex
    Thurrock
    Surrey
    East Sussex
    West Sussex
    Hampshire
    Isle of Wight

    There were eleven that asked for postponement - so which two have been denied?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,553
    I think Starmer defying Trump and backing a 2 state solution still will boost Streeting in his seat as will Labour proposals for a new Islamophobia law. Though the latter will further leak white working class voters to Reform and put Rayner, Cooper and Miliband's seats at risk.

    I hope Muslim voters who voted for Trump or stayed home last November are grateful he is thanking them by proposing to kick Muslim Palestinians out of Gaza
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,553
    Sean_F said:

    O/T, but averaging the most recent poll from eight pollsters gives Labour 25.2%, Reform 24.9%, Conservative 22.4%, Lib Dem 12.5%, Green 8.5%.

    Baxtered, that gives Labour 264, Conservative 145, Reform 113, Lib Dem 73, Green 4.

    So Labour and LD government likely with Tories still main opposition despite the excitement
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,553

    Social Democrats fight back.

    Europe Elects
    @EuropeElects
    Germany, You-Gov poll:

    CDU/CSU-EPP: 29%
    AfD-ESN: 22% (-1)
    SPD-S&D: 18% (+3)
    GRÜNE-G/EFA: 12% (-1)
    LINKE-LEFT: 6% (+1)
    BSW-NI: 6%
    FDP-RE: 4% (+1)

    +/- vs. 24-27 January 2025

    Fieldwork: 31 January-4 February 2025
    Sample size: 2,181

    Mildly will ease the path to another CDU and SPD grand coalition
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 12,710
    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
    Take Trump seriously but not literally and work out the possibilities from there.

    Can anyone tell us what is the best plan as yet from anyone with power but who isn't Trump?
    Stick with a 2-state solution. Put pressure on Israel to accept it. The US could do this if they wanted to.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,553
    IanB2 said:

    Realistically, Streeting isn’t under any threat in his (and my former) home patch. Gaza won’t be such an issue come the next election, and his area is sufficiently mixed that without such a salient international issue, no independent challenge will be able to get much traction. The Tories are flat on their backs in London and the LibDems don’t have the base to mount any credible challenge, and if Reform stands (for example former bumbling Bridge ward councillor, now emerging London spokesman Alex Wilson) that simply nails on a Labour win. Since Bridge is now in IDS’s seat, perhaps Wilson will instead bring about IDS’s long awaited demise?

    I was at uni with Alex he will probably be focused on trying to be Reform London Mayor candidate
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,561

    Four MPs suspended by Labour for voting against the government on the two-child benefit cap have been readmitted into the parliamentary party.

    Labour has restored the whip to Richard Burgon, Ian Byrne, Imran Hussain and Rebecca Long-Bailey, after they spent just over six months as independents.

    Three others who rebelled in July's vote - John McDonnell, Apsana Begum and Zarah Sultana - remain suspended.

    I would be amazed if Sultana is ever re-admitted.

    I would guess McDonnell's suspension remains due to the Plod interview.

    I am sure there is joy in Starmer's labours ranks at repenting sinners.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,553
    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    Our Ange has allowed the following councils to cancel their elections

    Norfolk
    Suffolk
    Essex
    Thurrock
    Surrey
    East Sussex
    West Sussex
    Hampshire
    Isle of Wight

    There were eleven that asked for postponement - so which two have been denied?
    Kent was one
  • Sam Kerr said the murder of Sarah Everard was running through her mind and that she was “terrified” for her life during a row with a taxi driver, a court has heard.

    Kerr, the Chelsea and Australia striker, is accused of intentionally causing “racially aggravated harassment, alarm or distress to a police officer”, PC Stephen Lovell, in January 2023. She denies the charge.

    The alleged incident took place after Kerr and her fiancée, United States international Kristie Mewis, got into a drunken row with a taxi driver.

    Kerr told the court how she and Mewis had hailed a black cab in Oxford Street, London, in the early hours of January 30 after attending a friend’s birthday party.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2025/02/05/sam-kerr-chelsea-trail-police-taxi-sarah-everard/
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,561
    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    Our Ange has allowed the following councils to cancel their elections

    Norfolk
    Suffolk
    Essex
    Thurrock
    Surrey
    East Sussex
    West Sussex
    Hampshire
    Isle of Wight

    There were eleven that asked for postponement - so which two have been denied?
    There were more than that. From Wikipedia

    There are 21 county councils in England. All of them hold whole-council elections on a four-year cycle that includes 2025. However, 7 county councils (Norfolk, Suffolk, Essex, Surrey, East Sussex, West Sussex, and Hampshire) had their elections cancelled due to local government reorganisation. A total of 16 county councils applied for their elections to be cancelled. Further, Derbyshire, Devon, Gloucestershire, Kent, Leicestershire, Lincolnshire, Oxfordshire, Warwickshire, and Worcestershire applied for their elections to be cancelled,[10] but will not be reorganised so will proceed as scheduled.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,553

    Sean_F said:

    I've met Streeting through a mutual friend and I think he is absolutely brilliant, one of the few genuine stars in British politics right now. I really hope he can hold his seat because we need people like him.

    He does strike me as being quite impressive.
    He's a Cambridge man, the best of the best.
    I'm sure you know there hasn't been a light blue PM since Stanley Baldwin. It's now a vital part of the unwritten constitution.
    Portillo, Michael Howard and Andy Burnham were not far off though
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,458
    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @TOPPING

    What were the concessions that the US extracted out of Mexico and Canada?

    And what do you think the impact of Trump's actions has been on demand for US goods in those countries?

    Didn't Mexico agree to send 10,000 troops to the border (which politically I believe is important for Trump and his supporters); and as for Canada there is now going to be a US-Canada trade summit wherein presumably Trump/the US will agitate for whatever terms they deem favourable to them.
    Yes, they recommitted to send the troops that they had already committed to send to the border. In fact, they'd previously committed to 15,000. So Trump actually managed to talk them down.
    Whereas the casual at-a-glance headline is that he has secured 10,000 Mexican troops to be sent to the border.

    It's all about the visuals.

    Which tells you something about politics that you should already know.
    Sure:

    He has done a great job of presenting things which were already happening (this or indeed the big new datacenter) as his.

    That's presentationally brilliant, sure.

    But at the same time, if one chooses to believe it is actually brilliant, you are saying "lie to me", and you are enjoying being lied to.

    He's also done long-term damage to the US economy, because Canadians feel that little bit less positve about their next door neighbour. Canada will now go that extra step to ensure that they can ship oil to China. Canadian consumers will be that little bit less likely to buy US products (witness the booing of the US national anthem at sports evens in Canada).

    But if you want to characterise it as brilliant, knock yourself out.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,104
    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    I've met Streeting through a mutual friend and I think he is absolutely brilliant, one of the few genuine stars in British politics right now. I really hope he can hold his seat because we need people like him.

    He does strike me as being quite impressive.
    He's a Cambridge man, the best of the best.
    I'm sure you know there hasn't been a light blue PM since Stanley Baldwin. It's now a vital part of the unwritten constitution.
    Portillo, Michael Howard and Andy Burnham were not far off though
    Close, but no cigar!
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,561

    Sam Kerr said the murder of Sarah Everard was running through her mind and that she was “terrified” for her life during a row with a taxi driver, a court has heard.

    Kerr, the Chelsea and Australia striker, is accused of intentionally causing “racially aggravated harassment, alarm or distress to a police officer”, PC Stephen Lovell, in January 2023. She denies the charge.

    The alleged incident took place after Kerr and her fiancée, United States international Kristie Mewis, got into a drunken row with a taxi driver.

    Kerr told the court how she and Mewis had hailed a black cab in Oxford Street, London, in the early hours of January 30 after attending a friend’s birthday party.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2025/02/05/sam-kerr-chelsea-trail-police-taxi-sarah-everard/

    She sounds a charmer, from SKY Sports report. She was also so drunk she was chucking up.


    The footballer said she did not recall speaking about PC Lovell being white.

    A recording of her saying "you guys are f****** stupid and white" and "I'm f****** over this s***" was played.

    Kerr then acknowledged that she had spoken about PC Lovell's race.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,419

    I've met Streeting through a mutual friend and I think he is absolutely brilliant, one of the few genuine stars in British politics right now. I really hope he can hold his seat because we need people like him.

    I must politely disagree. We have forty years of evidence that privatise-and-oversight does not work, and yet he wants that for the NHS, which is stupid. If the reports of his funding by Tufton Street is correct, he is also biddable. A corrupt privatiser should have no place in 2020s UK politics. The theory that the No 10 staff are trying to depose Starmer in a palace coup and instal Streeting just puts the tin lid on it. So no.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,776
    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Good morning all. Who’s looking forward to their holiday at Trump Gaza?

    I’d go. Who wouldn’t? Turn it into an American Monaco. Lovely climate. Beach front properties. Skyscrapers and luxe hotels

    Half the profits can be given to the Palestinians who will voluntarily move to Egypt, Jordan, Indonesia etc
    I semi-liked your idea of moving them to the West Bank and moving the Israeli settlers out (perhaps to Gaza). It seemed broadly fair - the settlers would be paid the value of their properties (more than they deserve imo), so if they burned them down, they'd get nothing. Lots of nice places for the Gazans to move into. It still wasn't fair but it had a sort of symmetry to it and was definitely a deadlock breaking solution.

    The current 'plan' of 'just put them somewhere' is immoral and also seems very unwise.
    wait - I thought that was my plan
    Apologies @kamski for attributing your plan wrongly.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,104
    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @TOPPING

    What were the concessions that the US extracted out of Mexico and Canada?

    And what do you think the impact of Trump's actions has been on demand for US goods in those countries?

    Didn't Mexico agree to send 10,000 troops to the border (which politically I believe is important for Trump and his supporters); and as for Canada there is now going to be a US-Canada trade summit wherein presumably Trump/the US will agitate for whatever terms they deem favourable to them.
    Yes, they recommitted to send the troops that they had already committed to send to the border. In fact, they'd previously committed to 15,000. So Trump actually managed to talk them down.
    Whereas the casual at-a-glance headline is that he has secured 10,000 Mexican troops to be sent to the border.

    It's all about the visuals.

    Which tells you something about politics that you should already know.
    Sure:

    He has done a great job of presenting things which were already happening (this or indeed the big new datacenter) as his.

    That's presentationally brilliant, sure.

    But at the same time, if one chooses to believe it is actually brilliant, you are saying "lie to me", and you are enjoying being lied to.

    He's also done long-term damage to the US economy, because Canadians feel that little bit less positve about their next door neighbour. Canada will now go that extra step to ensure that they can ship oil to China. Canadian consumers will be that little bit less likely to buy US products (witness the booing of the US national anthem at sports evens in Canada).

    But if you want to characterise it as brilliant, knock yourself out.
    Genuine question; how much does Alaska rely on food etc from Canada?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,794
    edited February 5

    Interesting revelations about USAID funding media organisations like Politico and even the BBC.

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/1887149640350327191

    For those of us who don't have or want X, do you have a real source for whatever bombshell this is supposed to be?

    I do hope it's not
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Media_Action

    Its main source of income is from institutions. In 2024, it listed the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, the United States Agency for International Development and the Swedish International Development Cooperation Agency as its main donors.



  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,423

    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
    Take Trump seriously but not literally and work out the possibilities from there.

    Can anyone tell us what is the best plan as yet from anyone with power but who isn't Trump?
    Stick with a 2-state solution. Put pressure on Israel to accept it. The US could do this if they wanted to.
    Maybe worth a try; it's been around a long time; neither Hamas nor and foreseeable Israeli government seem keen, and with the USA also not keen and Gaza uninhabitable it looks as if about 10-30 years ago was the big chance to achieve it. My feeling is that all chances ended for 2 state solution in October 2023.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,776
    I suppose thinking about it, the drawback of a Farage next PM bet isn't that Farage and Reform might implode, it's that Starmer probably won't go the distance. So we'll have a new Labour PM. Who on earth will it be though? It's another right vs. left battle brewing. The left will blame the lack of success on electing a centrist automaton, the right will say we need a cutter and saver, and it's entirely impossible to go left.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,328
    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @TOPPING

    What were the concessions that the US extracted out of Mexico and Canada?

    And what do you think the impact of Trump's actions has been on demand for US goods in those countries?

    Didn't Mexico agree to send 10,000 troops to the border (which politically I believe is important for Trump and his supporters); and as for Canada there is now going to be a US-Canada trade summit wherein presumably Trump/the US will agitate for whatever terms they deem favourable to them.
    Yes, they recommitted to send the troops that they had already committed to send to the border. In fact, they'd previously committed to 15,000. So Trump actually managed to talk them down.
    Whereas the casual at-a-glance headline is that he has secured 10,000 Mexican troops to be sent to the border.

    It's all about the visuals.

    Which tells you something about politics that you should already know.
    Sure:

    He has done a great job of presenting things which were already happening (this or indeed the big new datacenter) as his.

    That's presentationally brilliant, sure.

    But at the same time, if one chooses to believe it is actually brilliant, you are saying "lie to me", and you are enjoying being lied to.

    He's also done long-term damage to the US economy, because Canadians feel that little bit less positve about their next door neighbour. Canada will now go that extra step to ensure that they can ship oil to China. Canadian consumers will be that little bit less likely to buy US products (witness the booing of the US national anthem at sports evens in Canada).

    But if you want to characterise it as brilliant, knock yourself out.
    I characterise it as politics.

    As for Canadians feeling a "little less positive about their next door neighbour" - remind me, you were a Leave voter, amiright?

    Leaving people feeling "a little less positive about their next door neighbour" is the pinnacle of political achievement in your book, shirley.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,493
    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @TOPPING

    What were the concessions that the US extracted out of Mexico and Canada?

    And what do you think the impact of Trump's actions has been on demand for US goods in those countries?

    Didn't Mexico agree to send 10,000 troops to the border (which politically I believe is important for Trump and his supporters); and as for Canada there is now going to be a US-Canada trade summit wherein presumably Trump/the US will agitate for whatever terms they deem favourable to them.
    Yes, they recommitted to send the troops that they had already committed to send to the border. In fact, they'd previously committed to 15,000. So Trump actually managed to talk them down.
    Whereas the casual at-a-glance headline is that he has secured 10,000 Mexican troops to be sent to the border.

    It's all about the visuals.

    Which tells you something about politics that you should already know.
    Sure:

    He has done a great job of presenting things which were already happening (this or indeed the big new datacenter) as his.

    That's presentationally brilliant, sure.

    But at the same time, if one chooses to believe it is actually brilliant, you are saying "lie to me", and you are enjoying being lied to.

    He's also done long-term damage to the US economy, because Canadians feel that little bit less positve about their next door neighbour. Canada will now go that extra step to ensure that they can ship oil to China. Canadian consumers will be that little bit less likely to buy US products (witness the booing of the US national anthem at sports evens in Canada).

    But if you want to characterise it as brilliant, knock yourself out.
    I characterise it as politics.

    As for Canadians feeling a "little less positive about their next door neighbour" - remind me, you were a Leave voter, amiright?

    Leaving people feeling "a little less positive about their next door neighbour" is the pinnacle of political achievement in your book, shirley.
    Canadians are livid, as even a cursory presusal of their media will confirm.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,633
    rcs1000 said:

    He has done a great job of presenting things which were already happening (this or indeed the big new datacenter) as his.

    That's presentationally brilliant, sure.

    But at the same time, if one chooses to believe it is actually brilliant, you are saying "lie to me", and you are enjoying being lied to.

    The "Find Out" phase is accelerating...

    @RepGolden

    I’ve been getting a lot of calls over the past few days, and the interesting thing is none of them are about Donald Trump. They’re all about Elon Musk. My constituents, and a majority of this country, put Trump in the White House, not this unelected, weirdo billionaire.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,794

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Good morning all. Who’s looking forward to their holiday at Trump Gaza?

    I’d go. Who wouldn’t? Turn it into an American Monaco. Lovely climate. Beach front properties. Skyscrapers and luxe hotels

    Half the profits can be given to the Palestinians who will voluntarily move to Egypt, Jordan, Indonesia etc
    I semi-liked your idea of moving them to the West Bank and moving the Israeli settlers out (perhaps to Gaza). It seemed broadly fair - the settlers would be paid the value of their properties (more than they deserve imo), so if they burned them down, they'd get nothing. Lots of nice places for the Gazans to move into. It still wasn't fair but it had a sort of symmetry to it and was definitely a deadlock breaking solution.

    The current 'plan' of 'just put them somewhere' is immoral and also seems very unwise.
    wait - I thought that was my plan
    Apologies @kamski for attributing your plan wrongly.
    It was of course tongue in cheek cos it's not going to happen. Given Israeli dependence on US aid and support, a reasonable solution would be possible if the US was willing to force Israel to compromise. The US isn't willing to do this, and probably never has been, *even though* it seems to be in America's interest to do so.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,328
    IanB2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @TOPPING

    What were the concessions that the US extracted out of Mexico and Canada?

    And what do you think the impact of Trump's actions has been on demand for US goods in those countries?

    Didn't Mexico agree to send 10,000 troops to the border (which politically I believe is important for Trump and his supporters); and as for Canada there is now going to be a US-Canada trade summit wherein presumably Trump/the US will agitate for whatever terms they deem favourable to them.
    Yes, they recommitted to send the troops that they had already committed to send to the border. In fact, they'd previously committed to 15,000. So Trump actually managed to talk them down.
    Whereas the casual at-a-glance headline is that he has secured 10,000 Mexican troops to be sent to the border.

    It's all about the visuals.

    Which tells you something about politics that you should already know.
    Sure:

    He has done a great job of presenting things which were already happening (this or indeed the big new datacenter) as his.

    That's presentationally brilliant, sure.

    But at the same time, if one chooses to believe it is actually brilliant, you are saying "lie to me", and you are enjoying being lied to.

    He's also done long-term damage to the US economy, because Canadians feel that little bit less positve about their next door neighbour. Canada will now go that extra step to ensure that they can ship oil to China. Canadian consumers will be that little bit less likely to buy US products (witness the booing of the US national anthem at sports evens in Canada).

    But if you want to characterise it as brilliant, knock yourself out.
    I characterise it as politics.

    As for Canadians feeling a "little less positive about their next door neighbour" - remind me, you were a Leave voter, amiright?

    Leaving people feeling "a little less positive about their next door neighbour" is the pinnacle of political achievement in your book, shirley.
    Canadians are livid, as even a cursory presusal of their media will confirm.
    I have no doubt. But as far as @rcs1000 is concerned, this is a feature not a bug.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,493
    TOPPING said:

    IanB2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @TOPPING

    What were the concessions that the US extracted out of Mexico and Canada?

    And what do you think the impact of Trump's actions has been on demand for US goods in those countries?

    Didn't Mexico agree to send 10,000 troops to the border (which politically I believe is important for Trump and his supporters); and as for Canada there is now going to be a US-Canada trade summit wherein presumably Trump/the US will agitate for whatever terms they deem favourable to them.
    Yes, they recommitted to send the troops that they had already committed to send to the border. In fact, they'd previously committed to 15,000. So Trump actually managed to talk them down.
    Whereas the casual at-a-glance headline is that he has secured 10,000 Mexican troops to be sent to the border.

    It's all about the visuals.

    Which tells you something about politics that you should already know.
    Sure:

    He has done a great job of presenting things which were already happening (this or indeed the big new datacenter) as his.

    That's presentationally brilliant, sure.

    But at the same time, if one chooses to believe it is actually brilliant, you are saying "lie to me", and you are enjoying being lied to.

    He's also done long-term damage to the US economy, because Canadians feel that little bit less positve about their next door neighbour. Canada will now go that extra step to ensure that they can ship oil to China. Canadian consumers will be that little bit less likely to buy US products (witness the booing of the US national anthem at sports evens in Canada).

    But if you want to characterise it as brilliant, knock yourself out.
    I characterise it as politics.

    As for Canadians feeling a "little less positive about their next door neighbour" - remind me, you were a Leave voter, amiright?

    Leaving people feeling "a little less positive about their next door neighbour" is the pinnacle of political achievement in your book, shirley.
    Canadians are livid, as even a cursory presusal of their media will confirm.
    I have no doubt. But as far as @rcs1000 is concerned, this is a feature not a bug.
    The US will eventually discover the drawbacks of taking a dump upon all of its friends and neighbours.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 381
    Taz said:

    Red Chicken Run.

    The new MP for Bootle. Wes Streeting PM.

    Our local Tory MP did the chicken run. To be fair he's an improvement on the last one and came out to knock on doors. Mind you a donkey in a blue rosette could win here.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,417

    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
    Take Trump seriously but not literally and work out the possibilities from there.

    Can anyone tell us what is the best plan as yet from anyone with power but who isn't Trump?
    Stick with a 2-state solution. Put pressure on Israel to accept it. The US could do this if they wanted to.
    No, they couldn’t

    After October 7 there is no two state solution. It’s done

    So what’s next? The only world leader offering ANY future to the Palestinians is - irony of ironies - Donald Trump
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,553
    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
    Take Trump seriously but not literally and work out the possibilities from there.

    Can anyone tell us what is the best plan as yet from anyone with power but who isn't Trump?
    Stick with a 2-state solution. Put pressure on Israel to accept it. The US could do this if they wanted to.
    No, they couldn’t

    After October 7 there is no two state solution. It’s done

    So what’s next? The only world leader offering ANY future to the Palestinians is - irony of ironies - Donald Trump
    Not really. China, France, Russia, the UK, the Palestinian Authority, Saudi Arabia, Australia, Canada, the EU, Egypt and Turkey, the US Democrats all still back a 2 state solution.

    Only Hamas, who still want to wipe Israel from the map in theory and Trump and Netanyahu, who want to wipe Palestine from the map and have a greater Israel, disagree
  • Taz said:

    Sam Kerr said the murder of Sarah Everard was running through her mind and that she was “terrified” for her life during a row with a taxi driver, a court has heard.

    Kerr, the Chelsea and Australia striker, is accused of intentionally causing “racially aggravated harassment, alarm or distress to a police officer”, PC Stephen Lovell, in January 2023. She denies the charge.

    The alleged incident took place after Kerr and her fiancée, United States international Kristie Mewis, got into a drunken row with a taxi driver.

    Kerr told the court how she and Mewis had hailed a black cab in Oxford Street, London, in the early hours of January 30 after attending a friend’s birthday party.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2025/02/05/sam-kerr-chelsea-trail-police-taxi-sarah-everard/

    She sounds a charmer, from SKY Sports report. She was also so drunk she was chucking up.


    The footballer said she did not recall speaking about PC Lovell being white.

    A recording of her saying "you guys are f****** stupid and white" and "I'm f****** over this s***" was played.

    Kerr then acknowledged that she had spoken about PC Lovell's race.
    Those who will have seen the video of her, a few minutes after being 'terrified for her life', in the police station, will be of the opinion that she was arrogant, unpleasant, thick and drunk. Everything but terrified.

    Gives the impression of someone who has never been told 'no'.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,104
    Battlebus said:

    Taz said:

    Red Chicken Run.

    The new MP for Bootle. Wes Streeting PM.

    Our local Tory MP did the chicken run. To be fair he's an improvement on the last one and came out to knock on doors. Mind you a donkey in a blue rosette could win here.
    David Amess did well enough until someone came from outside the constituency. However, to my amazement, Southend W's gone Labour now.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,794

    Social Democrats fight back.

    Europe Elects
    @EuropeElects
    Germany, You-Gov poll:

    CDU/CSU-EPP: 29%
    AfD-ESN: 22% (-1)
    SPD-S&D: 18% (+3)
    GRÜNE-G/EFA: 12% (-1)
    LINKE-LEFT: 6% (+1)
    BSW-NI: 6%
    FDP-RE: 4% (+1)

    +/- vs. 24-27 January 2025

    Fieldwork: 31 January-4 February 2025
    Sample size: 2,181

    It also has the BSW and the Left above the 5% threshold (most polls have 0-1 of the bottom 3 parties making the cut) - though they are both still right on the line on average. The Left also have a second bite at the cherry with a chance of repeating last time's trick of qualifying through winning 3 constituencies.

    OTOH despite being +1 in this poll, the FDP's knell has (probably) been knolled. I certainly hope so.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,553
    edited February 5

    Battlebus said:

    Taz said:

    Red Chicken Run.

    The new MP for Bootle. Wes Streeting PM.

    Our local Tory MP did the chicken run. To be fair he's an improvement on the last one and came out to knock on doors. Mind you a donkey in a blue rosette could win here.
    David Amess did well enough until someone came from outside the constituency. However, to my amazement, Southend W's gone Labour now.
    Though only 1 out of the 2 Basildon seats has gone Reform (albeit the one that stayed Tory is mainly the old Billericay seat which was always the posher end of Basildon Theresa Gormon represented when Amess scraped home in Basildon in 1992 as Leigh on Sea where Amess was later MP is the posher end of Southend)
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,794
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
    Take Trump seriously but not literally and work out the possibilities from there.

    Can anyone tell us what is the best plan as yet from anyone with power but who isn't Trump?
    Stick with a 2-state solution. Put pressure on Israel to accept it. The US could do this if they wanted to.
    No, they couldn’t

    After October 7 there is no two state solution. It’s done

    So what’s next? The only world leader offering ANY future to the Palestinians is - irony of ironies - Donald Trump
    Not really. China, France, Russia, the UK, the Palestinian Authority, Saudi Arabia, Australia, Canada, the EU, Egypt and Turkey, the US Democrats all still back a 2 state solution.

    Only Hamas, who still want to wipe Israel from the map in theory and Trump and Netanyahu, who want to wipe Palestine from the map and have a greater Israel, disagree
    and Leon, you're forgetting world leader Leon.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,104
    edited February 5
    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    Taz said:

    Red Chicken Run.

    The new MP for Bootle. Wes Streeting PM.

    Our local Tory MP did the chicken run. To be fair he's an improvement on the last one and came out to knock on doors. Mind you a donkey in a blue rosette could win here.
    David Amess did well enough until someone came from outside the constituency. However, to my amazement, Southend W's gone Labour now.
    Though only 1 out of the 2 Basildon seats has gone Reform (albeit the one that stayed Tory is mainly the old Billericay seat which was always the posher end of Basildon as Leigh on Sea where Amess was MP is the posher end of Southend)
    I recall, back in the day, that many of the residents of Billericay were horrified at being 'lumped in' with Basildon.

    Edit. And you've clearly never been to Thorpe Bay, in what was Southend East.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,553
    edited February 5

    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    Taz said:

    Red Chicken Run.

    The new MP for Bootle. Wes Streeting PM.

    Our local Tory MP did the chicken run. To be fair he's an improvement on the last one and came out to knock on doors. Mind you a donkey in a blue rosette could win here.
    David Amess did well enough until someone came from outside the constituency. However, to my amazement, Southend W's gone Labour now.
    Though only 1 out of the 2 Basildon seats has gone Reform (albeit the one that stayed Tory is mainly the old Billericay seat which was always the posher end of Basildon as Leigh on Sea where Amess was MP is the posher end of Southend)
    I recall, back in the day, that many of the residents of Billericay were horrified at being 'lumped in' with Basildon.

    Edit. And you've clearly never been to Thorpe Bay, in what was Southend East.
    Like Old Harlow, Billericay used to be a small market town until it got the new town (and much of the bombed out East End of London's former residents) added onto it
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,417
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
    Take Trump seriously but not literally and work out the possibilities from there.

    Can anyone tell us what is the best plan as yet from anyone with power but who isn't Trump?
    Stick with a 2-state solution. Put pressure on Israel to accept it. The US could do this if they wanted to.
    No, they couldn’t

    After October 7 there is no two state solution. It’s done

    So what’s next? The only world leader offering ANY future to the Palestinians is - irony of ironies - Donald Trump
    Not really. China, France, Russia, the UK, the Palestinian Authority, Saudi Arabia, Australia, Canada, the EU, Egypt and Turkey, the US Democrats all still back a 2 state solution.

    Only Hamas, who still want to wipe Israel from the map in theory and Trump and Netanyahu, who want to wipe Palestine from the map and have a greater Israel, disagree
    Backing a “2 state solution” now is like backing “a negotiated peace” between Nazi Germany and the USSR two years after Barbarossa, ie about mid 1943

    I mean, great if you can do it. Go for it. Knock yerself out. You will save 10 million lives if you do it

    But it’s simply not going to happen. Both sides are way beyond that, and bent upon the destruction of the other

    Given that Israel has nukes and the Palestinians do not, the end result of this is probably the utter destruction of the Palestinians, as no Arab/Muslim country will, ultimately, intervene to save them lest they are themselves nuked by Israel

    So the best that can be done is to persuade the Palestinians to give up, and to go live in luxurious comfort in condos somewhere else, and the world will willingly give them much money to ease the journey

    Trump, being a ruthless dealmaking pragmatist, sees this, in his weird narcissistic way. I don’t believe he is any more pro-Israel than the average POTUS, indeed possibly less. He is greedier and more practical
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,458

    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @TOPPING

    What were the concessions that the US extracted out of Mexico and Canada?

    And what do you think the impact of Trump's actions has been on demand for US goods in those countries?

    Didn't Mexico agree to send 10,000 troops to the border (which politically I believe is important for Trump and his supporters); and as for Canada there is now going to be a US-Canada trade summit wherein presumably Trump/the US will agitate for whatever terms they deem favourable to them.
    Yes, they recommitted to send the troops that they had already committed to send to the border. In fact, they'd previously committed to 15,000. So Trump actually managed to talk them down.
    Whereas the casual at-a-glance headline is that he has secured 10,000 Mexican troops to be sent to the border.

    It's all about the visuals.

    Which tells you something about politics that you should already know.
    Sure:

    He has done a great job of presenting things which were already happening (this or indeed the big new datacenter) as his.

    That's presentationally brilliant, sure.

    But at the same time, if one chooses to believe it is actually brilliant, you are saying "lie to me", and you are enjoying being lied to.

    He's also done long-term damage to the US economy, because Canadians feel that little bit less positve about their next door neighbour. Canada will now go that extra step to ensure that they can ship oil to China. Canadian consumers will be that little bit less likely to buy US products (witness the booing of the US national anthem at sports evens in Canada).

    But if you want to characterise it as brilliant, knock yourself out.
    Genuine question; how much does Alaska rely on food etc from Canada?
    Not a lot, would be my guess. Pretty much everything is going to be shipped in to Anchorage.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,073
    Another unremarked point about this Trump Gaza plan - and I hope this isn’t seen to trivialise the issue - is that it would be nothing like the “Riviera of the Eastern Mediterranean”.

    There is already a Riviera of the Eastern Med. it’s called Beirut. And there’s also Tel Aviv and Haifa just the coast. And indeed Antalya.

    This would be, at best, more like a Dubai of the Eastern Mediterranean. Soulless concrete and glass with little heritage, no street life, and acres of bland shopping malls. But probably not even that. Dubai does at least have a thriving business community and some impressive modern architecture. Trump’s developments are notably ugly and antisocial in conception, and lacking in architectural merit.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,922

    Taz said:

    Sam Kerr said the murder of Sarah Everard was running through her mind and that she was “terrified” for her life during a row with a taxi driver, a court has heard.

    Kerr, the Chelsea and Australia striker, is accused of intentionally causing “racially aggravated harassment, alarm or distress to a police officer”, PC Stephen Lovell, in January 2023. She denies the charge.

    The alleged incident took place after Kerr and her fiancée, United States international Kristie Mewis, got into a drunken row with a taxi driver.

    Kerr told the court how she and Mewis had hailed a black cab in Oxford Street, London, in the early hours of January 30 after attending a friend’s birthday party.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2025/02/05/sam-kerr-chelsea-trail-police-taxi-sarah-everard/

    She sounds a charmer, from SKY Sports report. She was also so drunk she was chucking up.


    The footballer said she did not recall speaking about PC Lovell being white.

    A recording of her saying "you guys are f****** stupid and white" and "I'm f****** over this s***" was played.

    Kerr then acknowledged that she had spoken about PC Lovell's race.
    Those who will have seen the video of her, a few minutes after being 'terrified for her life', in the police station, will be of the opinion that she was arrogant, unpleasant, thick and drunk. Everything but terrified.

    Gives the impression of someone who has never been told 'no'.
    For some reason I am reminded of the occasion that, when at university, the women’s rugby team won.

    I was helping run the student union. I suggested we put on the extra security we put on for when the men’s team won - they could get a bit boisterous.

    I was shouted down.

    The physical damage to the Union went to 5 figures.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,901

    Taz said:

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
    You could argue that Trump is right, and it would make a good Riviera of the Eastern Med. However I agree with those who think the Palestinians are unlikely to leave voluntarily (unless substantially compensated) and even then where would they go? AIUI there isn't a lot left of either Jordan or Egypt which is really suitable for settlement.
    From the Trump POV Gaza would be a great grifting opportunity for him and his real estate cronies. With security provided free of charge courtesy of US and Israeli taxpayers.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,417
    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
    Take Trump seriously but not literally and work out the possibilities from there.

    Can anyone tell us what is the best plan as yet from anyone with power but who isn't Trump?
    Stick with a 2-state solution. Put pressure on Israel to accept it. The US could do this if they wanted to.
    No, they couldn’t

    After October 7 there is no two state solution. It’s done

    So what’s next? The only world leader offering ANY future to the Palestinians is - irony of ironies - Donald Trump
    Not really. China, France, Russia, the UK, the Palestinian Authority, Saudi Arabia, Australia, Canada, the EU, Egypt and Turkey, the US Democrats all still back a 2 state solution.

    Only Hamas, who still want to wipe Israel from the map in theory and Trump and Netanyahu, who want to wipe Palestine from the map and have a greater Israel, disagree
    and Leon, you're forgetting world leader Leon.
    @kamski you are rather jumping the gun, I told you in confidence
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,104
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    Taz said:

    Red Chicken Run.

    The new MP for Bootle. Wes Streeting PM.

    Our local Tory MP did the chicken run. To be fair he's an improvement on the last one and came out to knock on doors. Mind you a donkey in a blue rosette could win here.
    David Amess did well enough until someone came from outside the constituency. However, to my amazement, Southend W's gone Labour now.
    Though only 1 out of the 2 Basildon seats has gone Reform (albeit the one that stayed Tory is mainly the old Billericay seat which was always the posher end of Basildon as Leigh on Sea where Amess was MP is the posher end of Southend)
    I recall, back in the day, that many of the residents of Billericay were horrified at being 'lumped in' with Basildon.

    Edit. And you've clearly never been to Thorpe Bay, in what was Southend East.
    Like Old Harlow, Billericay used to be a small market town until it got the new town added onto it
    Billericay was the scene of the end, or near enough the end, of the Peasants Revolt.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 12,710
    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @TOPPING

    What were the concessions that the US extracted out of Mexico and Canada?

    And what do you think the impact of Trump's actions has been on demand for US goods in those countries?

    Didn't Mexico agree to send 10,000 troops to the border (which politically I believe is important for Trump and his supporters); and as for Canada there is now going to be a US-Canada trade summit wherein presumably Trump/the US will agitate for whatever terms they deem favourable to them.
    Yes, they recommitted to send the troops that they had already committed to send to the border. In fact, they'd previously committed to 15,000. So Trump actually managed to talk them down.
    Whereas the casual at-a-glance headline is that he has secured 10,000 Mexican troops to be sent to the border.

    It's all about the visuals.

    Which tells you something about politics that you should already know.
    Sure:

    He has done a great job of presenting things which were already happening (this or indeed the big new datacenter) as his.

    That's presentationally brilliant, sure.

    But at the same time, if one chooses to believe it is actually brilliant, you are saying "lie to me", and you are enjoying being lied to.

    He's also done long-term damage to the US economy, because Canadians feel that little bit less positve about their next door neighbour. Canada will now go that extra step to ensure that they can ship oil to China. Canadian consumers will be that little bit less likely to buy US products (witness the booing of the US national anthem at sports evens in Canada).

    But if you want to characterise it as brilliant, knock yourself out.
    And if you're wondering whether to invest in the US, recent events will not be encouraging you to do so. We saw faffing around with threats of tariffs hurt investment in Trump's first term.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,553
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
    Take Trump seriously but not literally and work out the possibilities from there.

    Can anyone tell us what is the best plan as yet from anyone with power but who isn't Trump?
    Stick with a 2-state solution. Put pressure on Israel to accept it. The US could do this if they wanted to.
    No, they couldn’t

    After October 7 there is no two state solution. It’s done

    So what’s next? The only world leader offering ANY future to the Palestinians is - irony of ironies - Donald Trump
    Not really. China, France, Russia, the UK, the Palestinian Authority, Saudi Arabia, Australia, Canada, the EU, Egypt and Turkey, the US Democrats all still back a 2 state solution.

    Only Hamas, who still want to wipe Israel from the map in theory and Trump and Netanyahu, who want to wipe Palestine from the map and have a greater Israel, disagree
    Backing a “2 state solution” now is like backing “a negotiated peace” between Nazi Germany and the USSR two years after Barbarossa, ie about mid 1943

    I mean, great if you can do it. Go for it. Knock yerself out. You will save 10 million lives if you do it

    But it’s simply not going to happen. Both sides are way beyond that, and bent upon the destruction of the other

    Given that Israel has nukes and the Palestinians do not, the end result of this is probably the utter destruction of the Palestinians, as no Arab/Muslim country will, ultimately, intervene to save them lest they are themselves nuked by Israel

    So the best that can be done is to persuade the Palestinians to give up, and to go live in luxurious comfort in condos somewhere else, and the world will willingly give them much money to ease the journey

    Trump, being a ruthless dealmaking pragmatist, sees this, in his weird narcissistic way. I don’t believe he is any more pro-Israel than the average POTUS, indeed possibly less. He is greedier and more practical
    Given Israel is smaller than Wales, if it nuked its Palestinian neighbours the blow back might not be a great idea
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,073
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
    Take Trump seriously but not literally and work out the possibilities from there.

    Can anyone tell us what is the best plan as yet from anyone with power but who isn't Trump?
    Stick with a 2-state solution. Put pressure on Israel to accept it. The US could do this if they wanted to.
    No, they couldn’t

    After October 7 there is no two state solution. It’s done

    So what’s next? The only world leader offering ANY future to the Palestinians is - irony of ironies - Donald Trump
    Not really. China, France, Russia, the UK, the Palestinian Authority, Saudi Arabia, Australia, Canada, the EU, Egypt and Turkey, the US Democrats all still back a 2 state solution.

    Only Hamas, who still want to wipe Israel from the map in theory and Trump and Netanyahu, who want to wipe Palestine from the map and have a greater Israel, disagree
    Palestine badly needs an inspiring leader. A Mandela or Zelenskyy or even a Sakashvili. Someone who can communicate a vision to their people while pressing the right buttons with world leaders, and make their small country’s cause the world’s cause while reassuring Israel.

    They’ve never had this. Arafat was a bit weird, and they’ve since had a succession of uninspiring technocratic types in the PA and terrorists in Gaza.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,553
    edited February 5
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
    Take Trump seriously but not literally and work out the possibilities from there.

    Can anyone tell us what is the best plan as yet from anyone with power but who isn't Trump?
    Stick with a 2-state solution. Put pressure on Israel to accept it. The US could do this if they wanted to.
    No, they couldn’t

    After October 7 there is no two state solution. It’s done

    So what’s next? The only world leader offering ANY future to the Palestinians is - irony of ironies - Donald Trump
    Not really. China, France, Russia, the UK, the Palestinian Authority, Saudi Arabia, Australia, Canada, the EU, Egypt and Turkey, the US Democrats all still back a 2 state solution.

    Only Hamas, who still want to wipe Israel from the map in theory and Trump and Netanyahu, who want to wipe Palestine from the map and have a greater Israel, disagree
    Palestine badly needs an inspiring leader. A Mandela or Zelenskyy or even a Sakashvili. Someone who can communicate a vision to their people while pressing the right buttons with world leaders, and make their small country’s cause the world’s cause while reassuring Israel.

    They’ve never had this. Arafat was a bit weird, and they’ve since had a succession of uninspiring technocratic types in the PA and terrorists in Gaza.
    Layla Moran? She is half Palestinian Christian
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,417
    edited February 5
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
    Take Trump seriously but not literally and work out the possibilities from there.

    Can anyone tell us what is the best plan as yet from anyone with power but who isn't Trump?
    Stick with a 2-state solution. Put pressure on Israel to accept it. The US could do this if they wanted to.
    No, they couldn’t

    After October 7 there is no two state solution. It’s done

    So what’s next? The only world leader offering ANY future to the Palestinians is - irony of ironies - Donald Trump
    Not really. China, France, Russia, the UK, the Palestinian Authority, Saudi Arabia, Australia, Canada, the EU, Egypt and Turkey, the US Democrats all still back a 2 state solution.

    Only Hamas, who still want to wipe Israel from the map in theory and Trump and Netanyahu, who want to wipe Palestine from the map and have a greater Israel, disagree
    Backing a “2 state solution” now is like backing “a negotiated peace” between Nazi Germany and the USSR two years after Barbarossa, ie about mid 1943

    I mean, great if you can do it. Go for it. Knock yerself out. You will save 10 million lives if you do it

    But it’s simply not going to happen. Both sides are way beyond that, and bent upon the destruction of the other

    Given that Israel has nukes and the Palestinians do not, the end result of this is probably the utter destruction of the Palestinians, as no Arab/Muslim country will, ultimately, intervene to save them lest they are themselves nuked by Israel

    So the best that can be done is to persuade the Palestinians to give up, and to go live in luxurious comfort in condos somewhere else, and the world will willingly give them much money to ease the journey

    Trump, being a ruthless dealmaking pragmatist, sees this, in his weird narcissistic way. I don’t believe he is any more pro-Israel than the average POTUS, indeed possibly less. He is greedier and more practical
    Given Israel is smaller than Wales, if it nuked its Palestinian neighbours the blow back might not be a great idea
    It’s called the Samson Option, Google it

    In the end if Israel is cornered and the Jews are facing wipe out it will take down and irradiate the entire Middle East, Israel included

    I’ve no doubt they are serious, Iran etc also know this
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,104
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
    Take Trump seriously but not literally and work out the possibilities from there.

    Can anyone tell us what is the best plan as yet from anyone with power but who isn't Trump?
    Stick with a 2-state solution. Put pressure on Israel to accept it. The US could do this if they wanted to.
    No, they couldn’t

    After October 7 there is no two state solution. It’s done

    So what’s next? The only world leader offering ANY future to the Palestinians is - irony of ironies - Donald Trump
    Not really. China, France, Russia, the UK, the Palestinian Authority, Saudi Arabia, Australia, Canada, the EU, Egypt and Turkey, the US Democrats all still back a 2 state solution.

    Only Hamas, who still want to wipe Israel from the map in theory and Trump and Netanyahu, who want to wipe Palestine from the map and have a greater Israel, disagree
    Backing a “2 state solution” now is like backing “a negotiated peace” between Nazi Germany and the USSR two years after Barbarossa, ie about mid 1943

    I mean, great if you can do it. Go for it. Knock yerself out. You will save 10 million lives if you do it

    But it’s simply not going to happen. Both sides are way beyond that, and bent upon the destruction of the other

    Given that Israel has nukes and the Palestinians do not, the end result of this is probably the utter destruction of the Palestinians, as no Arab/Muslim country will, ultimately, intervene to save them lest they are themselves nuked by Israel

    So the best that can be done is to persuade the Palestinians to give up, and to go live in luxurious comfort in condos somewhere else, and the world will willingly give them much money to ease the journey

    Trump, being a ruthless dealmaking pragmatist, sees this, in his weird narcissistic way. I don’t believe he is any more pro-Israel than the average POTUS, indeed possibly less. He is greedier and more practical
    Given Israel is smaller than Wales, if it nuked its Palestinian neighbours the blow back might not be a great idea
    Armageddon, my friend, Armageddon.

    What's the Jewish view of the end of the world?
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,741
    edited February 5
    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
    Take Trump seriously but not literally and work out the possibilities from there.

    Can anyone tell us what is the best plan as yet from anyone with power but who isn't Trump?
    Stick with a 2-state solution. Put pressure on Israel to accept it. The US could do this if they wanted to.
    No, they couldn’t

    After October 7 there is no two state solution. It’s done

    So what’s next? The only world leader offering ANY future to the Palestinians is - irony of ironies - Donald Trump
    What future?

    He's offering them a forced relocation to the desert whilst providing the Israelis with more bombs. No doubt as soon as they move they will be bombed and once they settle they will be bombed. What choice?

    There was a Israeli spokeswoman on the WATO who's rhetoric was indistinguishable from Nazi pamphlets. And this is a spokeswoman. Imagine what is said behind the scenes. Hopefully the Arabs will now understand that America will always support Israeli aggression. And Israel will always want more.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,553
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
    Take Trump seriously but not literally and work out the possibilities from there.

    Can anyone tell us what is the best plan as yet from anyone with power but who isn't Trump?
    Stick with a 2-state solution. Put pressure on Israel to accept it. The US could do this if they wanted to.
    No, they couldn’t

    After October 7 there is no two state solution. It’s done

    So what’s next? The only world leader offering ANY future to the Palestinians is - irony of ironies - Donald Trump
    Not really. China, France, Russia, the UK, the Palestinian Authority, Saudi Arabia, Australia, Canada, the EU, Egypt and Turkey, the US Democrats all still back a 2 state solution.

    Only Hamas, who still want to wipe Israel from the map in theory and Trump and Netanyahu, who want to wipe Palestine from the map and have a greater Israel, disagree
    Backing a “2 state solution” now is like backing “a negotiated peace” between Nazi Germany and the USSR two years after Barbarossa, ie about mid 1943

    I mean, great if you can do it. Go for it. Knock yerself out. You will save 10 million lives if you do it

    But it’s simply not going to happen. Both sides are way beyond that, and bent upon the destruction of the other

    Given that Israel has nukes and the Palestinians do not, the end result of this is probably the utter destruction of the Palestinians, as no Arab/Muslim country will, ultimately, intervene to save them lest they are themselves nuked by Israel

    So the best that can be done is to persuade the Palestinians to give up, and to go live in luxurious comfort in condos somewhere else, and the world will willingly give them much money to ease the journey

    Trump, being a ruthless dealmaking pragmatist, sees this, in his weird narcissistic way. I don’t believe he is any more pro-Israel than the average POTUS, indeed possibly less. He is greedier and more practical
    Given Israel is smaller than Wales, if it nuked its Palestinian neighbours the blow back might not be a great idea
    It’s called the Samson Option, Google it

    In the end if Israel is cornered and the Jews are facing wipe out it will take down and irradiate the entire Middle East, Israel included

    I’ve no doubt they are serious, Iran etc also know this
    I assume US evangelicals will get a special 'End Times' luxury break to the Holy Land then to prepare for the rapture?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,104
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
    Take Trump seriously but not literally and work out the possibilities from there.

    Can anyone tell us what is the best plan as yet from anyone with power but who isn't Trump?
    Stick with a 2-state solution. Put pressure on Israel to accept it. The US could do this if they wanted to.
    No, they couldn’t

    After October 7 there is no two state solution. It’s done

    So what’s next? The only world leader offering ANY future to the Palestinians is - irony of ironies - Donald Trump
    Not really. China, France, Russia, the UK, the Palestinian Authority, Saudi Arabia, Australia, Canada, the EU, Egypt and Turkey, the US Democrats all still back a 2 state solution.

    Only Hamas, who still want to wipe Israel from the map in theory and Trump and Netanyahu, who want to wipe Palestine from the map and have a greater Israel, disagree
    Backing a “2 state solution” now is like backing “a negotiated peace” between Nazi Germany and the USSR two years after Barbarossa, ie about mid 1943

    I mean, great if you can do it. Go for it. Knock yerself out. You will save 10 million lives if you do it

    But it’s simply not going to happen. Both sides are way beyond that, and bent upon the destruction of the other

    Given that Israel has nukes and the Palestinians do not, the end result of this is probably the utter destruction of the Palestinians, as no Arab/Muslim country will, ultimately, intervene to save them lest they are themselves nuked by Israel

    So the best that can be done is to persuade the Palestinians to give up, and to go live in luxurious comfort in condos somewhere else, and the world will willingly give them much money to ease the journey

    Trump, being a ruthless dealmaking pragmatist, sees this, in his weird narcissistic way. I don’t believe he is any more pro-Israel than the average POTUS, indeed possibly less. He is greedier and more practical
    Given Israel is smaller than Wales, if it nuked its Palestinian neighbours the blow back might not be a great idea
    It’s called the Samson Option, Google it

    In the end if Israel is cornered and the Jews are facing wipe out it will take down and irradiate the entire Middle East, Israel included

    I’ve no doubt they are serious, Iran etc also know this
    I assume US evangelicals will get a special 'End Times' luxury break to the Holy Land then to prepare for the rapture?
    Is that what the condos in Trump's Gaza are for?
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,448
    So Wiki has updated the formal defence numbers for the council elections this year in light of the 7 counties that have been deferred, the 5 who never applied to defer and the 9 counties who were denied deferral.

    Seats being defended (i.e. those won at last election without defections) are as follows:

    Con 1058 defences
    Lab 307
    LD 220
    Green 37
    Reform 2

    No defence numbers given for Ind etc.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_United_Kingdom_local_elections?wprov=sfla1
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 12,710
    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    Good afternoon everybody.

    In suggesting Labour is on unsafe ground in Ilford North, we are, of course, assuming that pro-Gaza Independents will still be a thing in May 2029.
    Apart from any other consideration we'll have a different US president to deal with.

    But what will Gaza be like given the Trumpdozer and his mates seem to want to make it prime real estate.
    Take Trump seriously but not literally and work out the possibilities from there.

    Can anyone tell us what is the best plan as yet from anyone with power but who isn't Trump?
    Stick with a 2-state solution. Put pressure on Israel to accept it. The US could do this if they wanted to.
    Maybe worth a try; it's been around a long time; neither Hamas nor and foreseeable Israeli government seem keen, and with the USA also not keen and Gaza uninhabitable it looks as if about 10-30 years ago was the big chance to achieve it. My feeling is that all chances ended for 2 state solution in October 2023.
    Most Palestinians live in the West Bank, with a Fatah government. They support a 2-state solution. Even Hamas sort of say they accept a 2-state solution: it was their official position before Oct 2023 and they sometimes say it is still now.

    What government is "foreseeable" in Israel? Current polling sees Bibi as likely to be voted out at the next election. That could see Benny Gantz as PM. He's not explicitly in favour of a 2-state solution, or of a 1-state solution, but is much more doveish than Netanyahu. The Democrats are doing well in the polls and Gantz would need them in his coalition probably: they favour a 2-state solution. On the other hand, Yisrael Beiteinu are also doing well in the polls and they don't.

    10-30 years ago was a big change to achieve a 2-state solution and it didn't happen. But the best time to start on that solution is today. You need Bibi gone (preferably in jail, where he should be) and a US administration willing to apply pressure. This is entirely possible if we survive Trump and Bibi.
This discussion has been closed.