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Next PM betting, Farage remains the favourite – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,318
edited February 18 in General
imageNext PM betting, Farage remains the favourite – politicalbetting.com

I maintain that Farage remains a lay in this market and the value lies with somebody on the Labour side who would replace Starmer before the next election. If he was contemplating resigning after the Hartlepool by election defeat then he might actually quit if things go sub-optimally during the rest of his premiership.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 792
    I refuse to accept that Farage could be a good lay even in this context.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    Lay the favourite!!!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,200
    FPT:
    Hmmm :smile:

    UK Govt denies increased charges for Chagos deal exist.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czj3w9k7gxxo
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    Also, time value of money and the size of the majority. The next PM could be the best part of a decade away if Starmer scrapes through the next election.
  • Dopermean said:

    I refuse to accept that Farage could be a good lay even in this context.

    Boris Johnson is an even better lay.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,502
    MattW said:

    FPT:
    Hmmm :smile:

    UK Govt denies increased charges for Chagos deal exist.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czj3w9k7gxxo

    Labour need to tighten up/speed up their comms rebuttal. Whilst not that consequential, this shouldn't have been a story.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 792
    Sandpit said:

    Lay the favourite!!!

    Who on earth has put £500 on Andrew Tate on Betfair?
    Based on erformance so far Darren Jones looks value, though that isn't how it'll be decided. Cooper has bottled her opportunities so far so seems unlikely.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    Have people finally stopped backing David Miliband in this market?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    edited February 5
    Dopermean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Lay the favourite!!!

    Who on earth has put £500 on Andrew Tate on Betfair?
    Based on erformance so far Darren Jones looks value, though that isn't how it'll be decided. Cooper has bottled her opportunities so far so seems unlikely.
    Didn’t Tate say he was starting a British political party? He’s most likely to be in prison in Romania at the next election, but one of his friends putting £500 on him doesn’t sound particularly outrageous.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999
    edited February 5
    rkrkrk said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:
    Hmmm :smile:

    UK Govt denies increased charges for Chagos deal exist.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czj3w9k7gxxo

    Labour need to tighten up/speed up their comms rebuttal. Whilst not that consequential, this shouldn't have been a story.
    It remained a fairly minor story on broadcast media but was turbocharged on here. I can't work out why. It's not like an individual poster spent all afternoon ramping the story.

    That said Government communications remain shockingly inept.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,068
    MattW said:

    FPT:
    Hmmm :smile:

    UK Govt denies increased charges for Chagos deal exist.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czj3w9k7gxxo

    They haven't denied the increased charges; they've merely said they haven't (yet) agreed to them.

    Which is presumably why half the cabinet is furiously briefing against the deal.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,068
    A FAFO reminder from November.

    ‘We warned you,’ Arab Americans in Michigan tell Kamala Harris
    https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024/11/6/we-warned-you-arab-americans-in-michigan-tell-kamala-harris
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,044
    I can’t help thinking that Reform will be a bit like Sinn Fein, perhaps polling into the thirties, but unable to translate it into a general election win.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,152
    I agree with the header. I think Starmer will go in 2028, so the next PM will be Labour.

    I think Rayner is value at 19.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 12,711
    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:
    Hmmm :smile:

    UK Govt denies increased charges for Chagos deal exist.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czj3w9k7gxxo

    They haven't denied the increased charges; they've merely said they haven't (yet) agreed to them.

    Which is presumably why half the cabinet is furiously briefing against the deal.
    “the UK Foreign Office said the figures being quoted were "inaccurate and misleading".”
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,892

    rkrkrk said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:
    Hmmm :smile:

    UK Govt denies increased charges for Chagos deal exist.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czj3w9k7gxxo

    Labour need to tighten up/speed up their comms rebuttal. Whilst not that consequential, this shouldn't have been a story.
    It remained a fairly minor story on broadcast media but was turbocharged on here. I can't work out why. It's not like an individual poster spent all afternoon ramping the story.

    That said Government communications remain shockingly inept.
    It was a fairly minor story but most of these stories are - the Lord Ali donor story started small and was talked about a lot here before it became a mainstream media story.

    Chagos has started ramping up - the Today programme got stuck in this morning with the political correspondent saying this has been quiet but will grow when people start hearing the cost.

    Apart from the annoying use as usual of “give them back to Mauritius” (they were never Mauritian territory but simply administered from there by the French then
    the Brits) our Amol was quite cutting about it, didn’t try and gotcha Priti who was on talking about it and effectively said it’s a story that’s going to grow.

    So whilst Leon is the most influential person in all the media I think this story might have built without him talking about it here yesterday.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,125
    Nigelb said:

    A FAFO reminder from November.

    ‘We warned you,’ Arab Americans in Michigan tell Kamala Harris
    https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024/11/6/we-warned-you-arab-americans-in-michigan-tell-kamala-harris

    Maybe now a case of we warned you, Kamala Harris tells Arab Americans in Michigan.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,044
    Nigelb said:

    A FAFO reminder from November.

    ‘We warned you,’ Arab Americans in Michigan tell Kamala Harris
    https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024/11/6/we-warned-you-arab-americans-in-michigan-tell-kamala-harris

    They used their left hand to cut off their right.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:
    Hmmm :smile:

    UK Govt denies increased charges for Chagos deal exist.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czj3w9k7gxxo

    They haven't denied the increased charges; they've merely said they haven't (yet) agreed to them.

    Which is presumably why half the cabinet is furiously briefing against the deal.
    “the UK Foreign Office said the figures being quoted were "inaccurate and misleading".”
    Which means the figures quoted are pretty much accurate. Maybe it’s £16bn or £20bn instead of £18bn.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,068

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:
    Hmmm :smile:

    UK Govt denies increased charges for Chagos deal exist.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czj3w9k7gxxo

    They haven't denied the increased charges; they've merely said they haven't (yet) agreed to them.

    Which is presumably why half the cabinet is furiously briefing against the deal.
    “the UK Foreign Office said the figures being quoted were "inaccurate and misleading".”
    That's a very nuanced denial.
    It could mean they are even worse.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,614
    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    A FAFO reminder from November.

    ‘We warned you,’ Arab Americans in Michigan tell Kamala Harris
    https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024/11/6/we-warned-you-arab-americans-in-michigan-tell-kamala-harris

    They used their left hand to cut off their right.
    And their feet. And then their legs. Plus large amounts of their stomachs.

    We warned them...and it's not as though Trump hadn't been incredibly pro-Israeli in his first term (American Embassy to Jerusalem being the most notable).
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999
    boulay said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:
    Hmmm :smile:

    UK Govt denies increased charges for Chagos deal exist.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czj3w9k7gxxo

    Labour need to tighten up/speed up their comms rebuttal. Whilst not that consequential, this shouldn't have been a story.
    It remained a fairly minor story on broadcast media but was turbocharged on here. I can't work out why. It's not like an individual poster spent all afternoon ramping the story.

    That said Government communications remain shockingly inept.
    It was a fairly minor story but most of these stories are - the Lord Ali donor story started small and was talked about a lot here before it became a mainstream media story.

    Chagos has started ramping up - the Today programme got stuck in this morning with the political correspondent saying this has been quiet but will grow when people start hearing the cost.

    Apart from the annoying use as usual of “give them back to Mauritius” (they were never Mauritian territory but simply administered from there by the French then
    the Brits) our Amol was quite cutting about it, didn’t try and gotcha Priti who was on talking about it and effectively said it’s a story that’s going to grow.

    So whilst Leon is the most influential person in all the media I think this story might have built without him talking about it here yesterday.
    That's the reach of politicalbetting.com
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,394

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:
    Hmmm :smile:

    UK Govt denies increased charges for Chagos deal exist.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czj3w9k7gxxo

    They haven't denied the increased charges; they've merely said they haven't (yet) agreed to them.

    Which is presumably why half the cabinet is furiously briefing against the deal.
    “the UK Foreign Office said the figures being quoted were "inaccurate and misleading".”
    And then promptly published them so we can all see the truth... presumably not
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,068

    Nigelb said:

    A FAFO reminder from November.

    ‘We warned you,’ Arab Americans in Michigan tell Kamala Harris
    https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024/11/6/we-warned-you-arab-americans-in-michigan-tell-kamala-harris

    Maybe now a case of we warned you, Kamala Harris tells Arab Americans in Michigan.
    I doubt she'd be quite that crass, true though it might be.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,502
    Foxy said:

    I agree with the header. I think Starmer will go in 2028, so the next PM will be Labour.

    I think Rayner is value at 19.

    Pretty rare for someone to voluntarily go after one term. A lot of things you want to achieve are just getting underway I'd guess. His children are teenagers now I believe, by 2028 they may be at uni/about to go and so he has more time on his hands!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,595

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:
    Hmmm :smile:

    UK Govt denies increased charges for Chagos deal exist.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czj3w9k7gxxo

    They haven't denied the increased charges; they've merely said they haven't (yet) agreed to them.

    Which is presumably why half the cabinet is furiously briefing against the deal.
    “the UK Foreign Office said the figures being quoted were "inaccurate and misleading".”
    The figures are so vast, and put so much debt onto future generations, that total transparency is required on the deal.

    I'm surprised we're not getting that transparency.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,200
    edited February 5
    Sandpit said:

    Dopermean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Lay the favourite!!!

    Who on earth has put £500 on Andrew Tate on Betfair?
    Based on erformance so far Darren Jones looks value, though that isn't how it'll be decided. Cooper has bottled her opportunities so far so seems unlikely.
    Didn’t Tate say he was starting a British political party? He’s most likely to be in prison in Romania at the next election, but one of his friends putting £500 on him doesn’t sound particularly outrageous.
    Indeedy-doody. Vote BRUV.

    https://www.indy100.com/politics/andrew-tate-bruv-party-politics-2670792411

    He's a kind of righty-narcissist to Brand's lefty-narcissist.

    He's probably due Taki's slot in the Speccie, at least until any conviction comes through.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,044

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:
    Hmmm :smile:

    UK Govt denies increased charges for Chagos deal exist.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czj3w9k7gxxo

    They haven't denied the increased charges; they've merely said they haven't (yet) agreed to them.

    Which is presumably why half the cabinet is furiously briefing against the deal.
    “the UK Foreign Office said the figures being quoted were "inaccurate and misleading".”
    The figures are so vast, and put so much debt onto future generations, that total transparency is required on the deal.

    I'm surprised we're not getting that transparency.
    I’m not surprised.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,068

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:
    Hmmm :smile:

    UK Govt denies increased charges for Chagos deal exist.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czj3w9k7gxxo

    They haven't denied the increased charges; they've merely said they haven't (yet) agreed to them.

    Which is presumably why half the cabinet is furiously briefing against the deal.
    “the UK Foreign Office said the figures being quoted were "inaccurate and misleading".”
    The figures are so vast, and put so much debt onto future generations, that total transparency is required on the deal.

    I'm surprised we're not getting that transparency.
    I'm not.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,994
    edited February 5
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dopermean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Lay the favourite!!!

    Who on earth has put £500 on Andrew Tate on Betfair?
    Based on erformance so far Darren Jones looks value, though that isn't how it'll be decided. Cooper has bottled her opportunities so far so seems unlikely.
    Didn’t Tate say he was starting a British political party? He’s most likely to be in prison in Romania at the next election, but one of his friends putting £500 on him doesn’t sound particularly outrageous.
    Indeedy-doody. Vote BRUV.

    https://www.indy100.com/politics/andrew-tate-bruv-party-politics-2670792411

    He's a kind of righty-narcissist to Brand's lefty-narcissist.

    He's probably due Taki's slot in the Speccie.
    Russell Brand is on the Trumpian right now, even went to the inauguration.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,152
    rkrkrk said:

    Foxy said:

    I agree with the header. I think Starmer will go in 2028, so the next PM will be Labour.

    I think Rayner is value at 19.

    Pretty rare for someone to voluntarily go after one term. A lot of things you want to achieve are just getting underway I'd guess. His children are teenagers now I believe, by 2028 they may be at uni/about to go and so he has more time on his hands!
    It will very much depend on how things look in 2028.

    Let's see how "Trash the State" populism looks by then.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dopermean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Lay the favourite!!!

    Who on earth has put £500 on Andrew Tate on Betfair?
    Based on erformance so far Darren Jones looks value, though that isn't how it'll be decided. Cooper has bottled her opportunities so far so seems unlikely.
    Didn’t Tate say he was starting a British political party? He’s most likely to be in prison in Romania at the next election, but one of his friends putting £500 on him doesn’t sound particularly outrageous.
    Indeedy-doody. Vote BRUV.

    https://www.indy100.com/politics/andrew-tate-bruv-party-politics-2670792411

    He's a kind of righty-narcissist to Brand's lefty-narcissist.

    He's probably due Taki's slot in the Speccie.
    I thought Brand had gone MAGA on us. I can't be sure because I make a habit of avoiding the t***!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,768
    Trump wants to ‘clean out’ 2.5m Palestinians from Gaza while it’s being rebuilt; Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt won’t take them.

    I can think of a country of which Trump has some oversight that could take them.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,595
    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:
    Hmmm :smile:

    UK Govt denies increased charges for Chagos deal exist.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czj3w9k7gxxo

    They haven't denied the increased charges; they've merely said they haven't (yet) agreed to them.

    Which is presumably why half the cabinet is furiously briefing against the deal.
    “the UK Foreign Office said the figures being quoted were "inaccurate and misleading".”
    The figures are so vast, and put so much debt onto future generations, that total transparency is required on the deal.

    I'm surprised we're not getting that transparency.
    I’m not surprised.
    There was a certain amount of sarcasm in my last line... :)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,554

    Trump wants to ‘clean out’ 2.5m Palestinians from Gaza while it’s being rebuilt; Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt won’t take them.

    I can think of a country of which Trump has some oversight that could take them.

    Airstrip One?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,336
    Dopermean said:

    I refuse to accept that Farage could be a good lay even in this context.

    I don’t know who will be the next PM, but I don’t think it will be anyone on that graph. I suspect it will be a female Labour MP, but not Cooper or Rayner.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,336

    Trump wants to ‘clean out’ 2.5m Palestinians from Gaza while it’s being rebuilt; Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt won’t take them.

    I can think of a country of which Trump has some oversight that could take them.

    Canada, Mexico, Panama or Greenland.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,922

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:
    Hmmm :smile:

    UK Govt denies increased charges for Chagos deal exist.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czj3w9k7gxxo

    They haven't denied the increased charges; they've merely said they haven't (yet) agreed to them.

    Which is presumably why half the cabinet is furiously briefing against the deal.
    “the UK Foreign Office said the figures being quoted were "inaccurate and misleading".”
    The figures are so vast, and put so much debt onto future generations, that total transparency is required on the deal.

    I'm surprised we're not getting that transparency.
    I’m not surprised.
    There was a certain amount of sarcasm in my last line... :)
    We were assured that the deal will be so good and so cheap…. So it should be paid for by investing Starmer’s special pension in it.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,768

    Trump wants to ‘clean out’ 2.5m Palestinians from Gaza while it’s being rebuilt; Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt won’t take them.

    I can think of a country of which Trump has some oversight that could take them.

    Airstrip One?
    I’d say there are limits to Starmer’s Trump rimming but I’ve been wrong before.
    PM Farage otoh…
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 381

    Dopermean said:

    I refuse to accept that Farage could be a good lay even in this context.

    I don’t know who will be the next PM, but I don’t think it will be anyone on that graph. I suspect it will be a female Labour MP, but not Cooper or Rayner.
    A Hackneyed MP?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,892

    Trump wants to ‘clean out’ 2.5m Palestinians from Gaza while it’s being rebuilt; Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt won’t take them.

    I can think of a country of which Trump has some oversight that could take them.

    The US is being overrun by immigrants, some of them terrible criminals, they need to go back to their homeland.

    Jordan and Egypt need to take millions of immigrants, some of them terrible criminals so we can build a Gaza Riviera.

    He said he didn’t want to be a wise guy and he’s managed it.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,200
    edited February 5

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dopermean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Lay the favourite!!!

    Who on earth has put £500 on Andrew Tate on Betfair?
    Based on erformance so far Darren Jones looks value, though that isn't how it'll be decided. Cooper has bottled her opportunities so far so seems unlikely.
    Didn’t Tate say he was starting a British political party? He’s most likely to be in prison in Romania at the next election, but one of his friends putting £500 on him doesn’t sound particularly outrageous.
    Indeedy-doody. Vote BRUV.

    https://www.indy100.com/politics/andrew-tate-bruv-party-politics-2670792411

    He's a kind of righty-narcissist to Brand's lefty-narcissist.

    He's probably due Taki's slot in the Speccie.
    Russell Brand is on the Trumpian right now, even went to the inauguration.
    Has he?

    I thought he was currently a self-appointed wellness guru for abused and oppressed women - and was doing things Maharishi style.

    All (alleged) sex abusers together, I guess.

    Anyhoo: the Bruv Party's core values are quite something:

    https://www.votebruv.co.uk/

    Bonus Brand:

    Brand dismissed the anti-Trump campaign as "hysterical" and argued that a greater threat to democracy is the growing power of tech giants, which he claims fuels censorship, war funding, and division among Americans.
    https://www.express.co.uk/celebrity-news/2003046/russell-brand-donald-trump-inauguration
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,417
    edited February 5
    If the UK was about to receive, from some mad self harming foreign power the dosh we are going to give the Mauritians, then the UK would be, per capita, happily expectant of

    £1,080,000,000,000
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,614

    Trump wants to ‘clean out’ 2.5m Palestinians from Gaza while it’s being rebuilt; Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt won’t take them.

    I can think of a country of which Trump has some oversight that could take them.

    The Mauritius solution?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,614

    MattW said:

    FPT:
    Hmmm :smile:

    UK Govt denies increased charges for Chagos deal exist.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czj3w9k7gxxo

    It was a great deal, it forced Leon to log off PB.
    Spoke too soon...
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,950
    Foxy said:

    I agree with the header. I think Starmer will go in 2028, so the next PM will be Labour.

    I think Rayner is value at 19.

    There is no way on earth that Rayner could be described as "value"
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,562

    Foxy said:

    I agree with the header. I think Starmer will go in 2028, so the next PM will be Labour.

    I think Rayner is value at 19.

    There is no way on earth that Rayner could be described as "value"
    Rayner is the middle class centrist ideal of a person whom the working class should see as aspirational and inspirational.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,768
    The bullshit, sorry, virtuous reason given by the Donald & Bibi show for moving out the Gazans is the risk caused by all that unexploded ordnance. Strangely no one gave much of a toss about the danger of the stuff that actually exploded.
    I may be wrong but I don’t think historically there was any evacuation of the civilian population when rebuilding area-bombed cities. In fact they were directly involved in reconstruction (Trümmerfrau etc).
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999
    Leon said:

    If the UK was about to receive, from some mad self harming foreign power the dosh we are going to give the Mauritians, then the UK would be, per capita, happily expectant of

    £1,080,000,000,000

    Oh no, not another bloody Chagos thread.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,099
    Sandpit said:

    Have people finally stopped backing David Miliband in this market?

    I've decided not to invest further for now. Waiting for a bookie to offer a King Over the Water double header: Milliband (D) for next PM and Sussex (H) for next king :smiley:
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,384

    Leon said:

    If the UK was about to receive, from some mad self harming foreign power the dosh we are going to give the Mauritians, then the UK would be, per capita, happily expectant of

    £1,080,000,000,000

    Oh no, not another bloody Chagos thread.
    It's one of the most important issues going on in UK politics today. It shouldn't be, but it is. And unlike many of the challenges facing this government, it is pretty much totally under their own control.
    Feels like an open goal for Kemi at PMQs. Retorts of "the Tories started this process" won't wash at this point.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,157
    I guess this is the point at which we can see who is merely a Trump adjacent provocateur and who has really joined the Qult. Defending Trump's Gaza "plan" is going to take mental gymnastics of a Korbut level.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,423
    WRT Gaza, I don't suppose anyone is really surprised that Trump has said something like what he has.

    All politics is relative, even this one. So points:

    1) Clearly Trump intends to start a new middle east negotiation start point and position, and will have achieved this.

    2) Has anyone got a better one?

    3) I and most of us (I imagine) have long supported a two state solution. But SFAICS none of the parties do, most supporting a one state solution. So two state stuff isn't happening, not since the October massacre and Gaza'a becoming rubble.

    4) What is the best one state solution which can be regarded as possible within the obvious constraints. Is it not most likely to be a radical but reluctantly agreed modification of Trump's appaarently absurd starting point?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,068

    Leon said:

    If the UK was about to receive, from some mad self harming foreign power the dosh we are going to give the Mauritians, then the UK would be, per capita, happily expectant of

    £1,080,000,000,000

    Oh no, not another bloody Chagos thread.
    £1,080,000,000,000 "per capita" seems... implausible.
    I think he might have meant pro rata, but since no one actually knows what the figures are, it might just be the usual hyperbole ?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,892

    Leon said:

    If the UK was about to receive, from some mad self harming foreign power the dosh we are going to give the Mauritians, then the UK would be, per capita, happily expectant of

    £1,080,000,000,000

    Oh no, not another bloody Chagos thread.
    Out of interest, when the Tories were making fuck ups and being hammered on here, did you protest about another thread where everyone is talking about it?

    Was Partygate criticism on here deserving of just the one thread? The Trussterfuck?

    Could it be, just by chance, that you don’t want Labour fuck ups talked about because it’s easier than putting your hand up and admitting “your team” has messed up?

    It’s ok to be wrong. It’s cathartic to admit it is wrong. It’s better than continuing down a wrong path.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,101
    Projected population of 9m.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Line,_Saudi_Arabia

    How convenient.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,068

    The bullshit, sorry, virtuous reason given by the Donald & Bibi show for moving out the Gazans is the risk caused by all that unexploded ordnance. Strangely no one gave much of a toss about the danger of the stuff that actually exploded.
    I may be wrong but I don’t think historically there was any evacuation of the civilian population when rebuilding area-bombed cities. In fact they were directly involved in reconstruction (Trümmerfrau etc).

    The remarkable thing was the sane washing treatment the BBC gave the proposals this morning.

    For once, the Al Jazeera headline is a more sober assessment.

    ‘Insane’: Rights advocates denounce Trump’s call for US to ‘own’ Gaza
    https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2025/2/5/insane-rights-advocates-denounce-trumps-call-for-us-to-own-gaza
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,182
    algarkirk said:

    WRT Gaza, I don't suppose anyone is really surprised that Trump has said something like what he has.

    All politics is relative, even this one. So points:

    1) Clearly Trump intends to start a new middle east negotiation start point and position, and will have achieved this.

    2) Has anyone got a better one?

    3) I and most of us (I imagine) have long supported a two state solution. But SFAICS none of the parties do, most supporting a one state solution. So two state stuff isn't happening, not since the October massacre and Gaza'a becoming rubble.

    4) What is the best one state solution which can be regarded as possible within the obvious constraints. Is it not most likely to be a radical but reluctantly agreed modification of Trump's appaarently absurd starting point?

    I await Thomas Friedman's response.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,452

    boulay said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:
    Hmmm :smile:

    UK Govt denies increased charges for Chagos deal exist.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czj3w9k7gxxo

    Labour need to tighten up/speed up their comms rebuttal. Whilst not that consequential, this shouldn't have been a story.
    It remained a fairly minor story on broadcast media but was turbocharged on here. I can't work out why. It's not like an individual poster spent all afternoon ramping the story.

    That said Government communications remain shockingly inept.
    It was a fairly minor story but most of these stories are - the Lord Ali donor story started small and was talked about a lot here before it became a mainstream media story.

    Chagos has started ramping up - the Today programme got stuck in this morning with the political correspondent saying this has been quiet but will grow when people start hearing the cost.

    Apart from the annoying use as usual of “give them back to Mauritius” (they were never Mauritian territory but simply administered from there by the French then
    the Brits) our Amol was quite cutting about it, didn’t try and gotcha Priti who was on talking about it and effectively said it’s a story that’s going to grow.

    So whilst Leon is the most influential person in all the media I think this story might have built without him talking about it here yesterday.
    That's the reach of politicalbetting.com
    I think it’s definitely broken out of the right-wing circles the story was circulating in: The obvious attack from the left & inside government is: “we’re so hard up that benefits are being cut & our departments are being told to find cost savings 'or else' but the FO can’t magic up £18billion from the Treasury with a wave of their wand for this deal that nobody wants”
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,152

    Foxy said:

    I agree with the header. I think Starmer will go in 2028, so the next PM will be Labour.

    I think Rayner is value at 19.

    There is no way on earth that Rayner could be described as "value"
    My logic is that:

    1) leaders are rarely replaced by someone like themselves, they are replaced with a person who corrects or over corrects the deficiencies of the outgoing leader.

    2) leaders are replaced by senior frontbenchers, or recent front benches, particularly when in government.

    3) There will be a desire to have a female leader.

    Reeves is out because of 1.

    So I am backing Rayner, Cooper and Phillipson as next PM, and of these Rayner or Cooper seems most likely.

    You may not like Rayner, but you are not the electorate for this contest, the Labour Party MPs, members and Trade Unions are. As she was previous shop steward the Unions will back Rayner.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,448
    tlg86 said:

    Leon said:

    If the UK was about to receive, from some mad self harming foreign power the dosh we are going to give the Mauritians, then the UK would be, per capita, happily expectant of

    £1,080,000,000,000

    Oh no, not another bloody Chagos thread.
    It's one of the most important issues going on in UK politics today. It shouldn't be, but it is. And unlike many of the challenges facing this government, it is pretty much totally under their own control.
    Feels like an open goal for Kemi at PMQs. Retorts of "the Tories started this process" won't wash at this point.
    I feel like we can cut numbers in another way. So, we know in some manner the 9 / 18bn is 100 years worth of lease of a military base / island including indexation / compounding.

    By scaling up the (if unremedied) in year hidden running costs of the fiscal black hole, multiplying by 100 and indexing, I reckon the fiscal black hole the Tories bequeathed this government is around 10 trillion pounds.

    We don't know exactly the Chagos deal, it will come before parliament first, but we know it is along these lines.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,182
    It was quite clear from his wild and all over the place rants at rallies and from the one debate he had with Kamala that Trump's state of mind would mean an insane and out of control presidency and so here we all are.

    Thank you America.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999
    ....
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    If the UK was about to receive, from some mad self harming foreign power the dosh we are going to give the Mauritians, then the UK would be, per capita, happily expectant of

    £1,080,000,000,000

    Oh no, not another bloody Chagos thread.
    Out of interest, when the Tories were making fuck ups and being hammered on here, did you protest about another thread where everyone is talking about it?

    Was Partygate criticism on here deserving of just the one thread? The Trussterfuck?

    Could it be, just by chance, that you don’t want Labour fuck ups talked about because it’s easier than putting your hand up and admitting “your team” has messed up?

    It’s ok to be wrong. It’s cathartic to admit it is wrong. It’s better than continuing down a wrong path.
    My point wasn't so much the folly or otherwise of the policy. I don't know enough about it to comment apart from IF the figures are correct it does seem both expensive and peculiar.

    And you are correct I laughed loudest when Johnson's tomfoolery was being called into question, although not so much with Truss and Sunak.

    My observation was focused on the poster who can quite impressively make himself centre of attention by hijacking a thread. Normally it is his holidays, the club he is a member of or an expensive lunch in Mayfair. Yesterday was very much on a political topic. No two ways about it he owned the thread. I was just hoping he won't own this one.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,423
    glw said:

    I guess this is the point at which we can see who is merely a Trump adjacent provocateur and who has really joined the Qult. Defending Trump's Gaza "plan" is going to take mental gymnastics of a Korbut level.

    It's a starting point for negotiation. Whatever the solution is, it isn't going to be 'two state', not since 7th Oct 2023, and it isn't going to be comfortable for most of the middle east, and it isn't going to be status quo ante. I am sure there are better plans, but we have not heard them yet. But I think we will. Answers on a postcard to UNRA.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,555
    edited February 5
    On current polls Labour would still win most seats on average even if they would lose their majority. So Starmer could stay PM with LD support.

    The chances of Farage becoming PM are therefore overestimated by the bookies. Even to get most seats Reform would need to rise further to 28% and even then Farage would have to do a deal with Kemi
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,152

    It was quite clear from his wild and all over the place rants at rallies and from the one debate he had with Kamala that Trump's state of mind would mean an insane and out of control presidency and so here we all are.

    Thank you America.

    The Trump era has made this study obsolete.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/feb/05/scientists-find-that-things-really-do-seem-better-in-the-morning?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,619

    Leon said:

    If the UK was about to receive, from some mad self harming foreign power the dosh we are going to give the Mauritians, then the UK would be, per capita, happily expectant of

    £1,080,000,000,000

    Oh no, not another bloody Chagos thread.
    It's one of the most important issues going on in UK politics today. It shouldn't be, but it is. And unlike many of the challenges facing this government, it is pretty much totally under their own control.
    The apparently sincere outrage about Chagos is baffling. There are a hundred other things I would get exercised about before that.

    It isn't moral outrage. If it was we would close the base down and give the Chagossians their island back. The UK and US have no more moral right to the island than Mauritius, but legally it's theirs, as determined by clear and well established international law. So it's entirely transactional. The British, but in reality the Americans, get their base and the Mauritians get the money from a lease, which seems to be at the going rate for such bases. Everyone is happy, except the Chagossians, but nobody cares about them.

    So Jenrick, a shadow bench member and likely next leader of the opposition calls Starmer a Quisling, and looks completely demented.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,892
    algarkirk said:

    WRT Gaza, I don't suppose anyone is really surprised that Trump has said something like what he has.

    All politics is relative, even this one. So points:

    1) Clearly Trump intends to start a new middle east negotiation start point and position, and will have achieved this.

    2) Has anyone got a better one?

    3) I and most of us (I imagine) have long supported a two state solution. But SFAICS none of the parties do, most supporting a one state solution. So two state stuff isn't happening, not since the October massacre and Gaza'a becoming rubble.

    4) What is the best one state solution which can be regarded as possible within the obvious constraints. Is it not most likely to be a radical but reluctantly agreed modification of Trump's appaarently absurd starting point?

    Crazy idea, instead of handing Gaza over to the US and Trump friendly donors to develop and send the Palestinians away why not make Gaza such a great place to live, good infrastructure, jobs, lifestyle.

    So good that if you are a Palestinian you actively don’t want to spend the day throwing rocks at Israeli border posts or joining death cults because, you know, you get to take your girlfriend to a nice beachfront cafe and look at the coastline that Trump covets and then you can go for a nice spot of dinner in a restaurant that’s not going to be bonbed then sleep and get up for a day at work in the job created by rebuilding and redevelopment rather than being one of the “lucky ones” who get to stay to hand out towels on the beach to fat Americans.

  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,448
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    I agree with the header. I think Starmer will go in 2028, so the next PM will be Labour.

    I think Rayner is value at 19.

    There is no way on earth that Rayner could be described as "value"
    My logic is that:

    1) leaders are rarely replaced by someone like themselves, they are replaced with a person who corrects or over corrects the deficiencies of the outgoing leader.

    2) leaders are replaced by senior frontbenchers, or recent front benches, particularly when in government.

    3) There will be a desire to have a female leader.

    Reeves is out because of 1.

    So I am backing Rayner, Cooper and Phillipson as next PM, and of these Rayner or Cooper seems most likely.

    You may not like Rayner, but you are not the electorate for this contest, the Labour Party MPs, members and Trade Unions are. As she was previous shop steward the Unions will back Rayner.
    Haigh would likely have been in this discussion but for her mobile phone.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,157

    It was quite clear from his wild and all over the place rants at rallies and from the one debate he had with Kamala that Trump's state of mind would mean an insane and out of control presidency and so here we all are.

    Thank you America.

    It would make an entertaining novel or film, but it's not much fun to be living in.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,182
    edited February 5
    Thoughts and prayers for those No Way Biden voters of Dearborn.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,633

    It was quite clear from his wild and all over the place rants at rallies and from the one debate he had with Kamala that Trump's state of mind would mean an insane and out of control presidency and so here we all are.

    Thank you America.

    As the Canadians put it, Fuck Aboot, Find Oot...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,555
    Nigelb said:

    The bullshit, sorry, virtuous reason given by the Donald & Bibi show for moving out the Gazans is the risk caused by all that unexploded ordnance. Strangely no one gave much of a toss about the danger of the stuff that actually exploded.
    I may be wrong but I don’t think historically there was any evacuation of the civilian population when rebuilding area-bombed cities. In fact they were directly involved in reconstruction (Trümmerfrau etc).

    The remarkable thing was the sane washing treatment the BBC gave the proposals this morning.

    For once, the Al Jazeera headline is a more sober assessment.

    ‘Insane’: Rights advocates denounce Trump’s call for US to ‘own’ Gaza
    https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2025/2/5/insane-rights-advocates-denounce-trumps-call-for-us-to-own-gaza
    Indeed even in Biblical times Gaza was Philistine then Egyptian land not part of ancient Israel
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,794
    boulay said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:
    Hmmm :smile:

    UK Govt denies increased charges for Chagos deal exist.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czj3w9k7gxxo

    Labour need to tighten up/speed up their comms rebuttal. Whilst not that consequential, this shouldn't have been a story.
    It remained a fairly minor story on broadcast media but was turbocharged on here. I can't work out why. It's not like an individual poster spent all afternoon ramping the story.

    That said Government communications remain shockingly inept.
    It was a fairly minor story but most of these stories are - the Lord Ali donor story started small and was talked about a lot here before it became a mainstream media story.

    Chagos has started ramping up - the Today programme got stuck in this morning with the political correspondent saying this has been quiet but will grow when people start hearing the cost.

    Apart from the annoying use as usual of “give them back to Mauritius” (they were never Mauritian territory but simply administered from there by the French then
    the Brits) our Amol was quite cutting about it, didn’t try and gotcha Priti who was on talking about it and effectively said it’s a story that’s going to grow.

    So whilst Leon is the most influential person in all the media I think this story might have built without him talking about it here yesterday.
    "(they were never Mauritian territory but simply administered from there by the French then
    the Brits)"

    I don't think you can dismiss the claims of Mauritius quite so easily.
    Here is the summary of the 2019 ICJ advisory opinion on the matter:

    https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/169/169-20190225-SUM-01-00-EN.pdf

    when it decided 13-1 that

    having regard to international law, the process of decolonization of Mauritius was not lawfully completed when that country acceded to independence in 1968, following the separation of the Chagos Archipelago.

    the United Kingdom is under an obligation to bring to an end its administration of the Chagos Archipelago as rapidly as possible.

    all Member States are under an obligation to co-operate with the United Nations in order to complete the decolonization of Mauritius.


    The reasons are given in the document.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,448

    Projected population of 9m.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Line,_Saudi_Arabia

    How convenient.

    What, just rename it The Strip?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    I agree with the header. I think Starmer will go in 2028, so the next PM will be Labour.

    I think Rayner is value at 19.

    There is no way on earth that Rayner could be described as "value"
    My logic is that:

    1) leaders are rarely replaced by someone like themselves, they are replaced with a person who corrects or over corrects the deficiencies of the outgoing leader.

    2) leaders are replaced by senior frontbenchers, or recent front benches, particularly when in government.

    3) There will be a desire to have a female leader.

    Reeves is out because of 1.

    So I am backing Rayner, Cooper and Phillipson as next PM, and of these Rayner or Cooper seems most likely.

    You may not like Rayner, but you are not the electorate for this contest, the Labour Party MPs, members and Trade Unions are. As she was previous shop steward the Unions will back Rayner.
    In a sea of disappointment the only member of the Shadow Cabinet who seems to have competence, confidence and a non-robotic character is Darren Jones.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,423
    boulay said:

    algarkirk said:

    WRT Gaza, I don't suppose anyone is really surprised that Trump has said something like what he has.

    All politics is relative, even this one. So points:

    1) Clearly Trump intends to start a new middle east negotiation start point and position, and will have achieved this.

    2) Has anyone got a better one?

    3) I and most of us (I imagine) have long supported a two state solution. But SFAICS none of the parties do, most supporting a one state solution. So two state stuff isn't happening, not since the October massacre and Gaza'a becoming rubble.

    4) What is the best one state solution which can be regarded as possible within the obvious constraints. Is it not most likely to be a radical but reluctantly agreed modification of Trump's appaarently absurd starting point?

    Crazy idea, instead of handing Gaza over to the US and Trump friendly donors to develop and send the Palestinians away why not make Gaza such a great place to live, good infrastructure, jobs, lifestyle.

    So good that if you are a Palestinian you actively don’t want to spend the day throwing rocks at Israeli border posts or joining death cults because, you know, you get to take your girlfriend to a nice beachfront cafe and look at the coastline that Trump covets and then you can go for a nice spot of dinner in a restaurant that’s not going to be bonbed then sleep and get up for a day at work in the job created by rebuilding and redevelopment rather than being one of the “lucky ones” who get to stay to hand out towels on the beach to fat Americans.

    I think that's a great idea and I hope it works.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 12,711

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:
    Hmmm :smile:

    UK Govt denies increased charges for Chagos deal exist.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czj3w9k7gxxo

    They haven't denied the increased charges; they've merely said they haven't (yet) agreed to them.

    Which is presumably why half the cabinet is furiously briefing against the deal.
    “the UK Foreign Office said the figures being quoted were "inaccurate and misleading".”
    And then promptly published them so we can all see the truth... presumably not
    It is not usual to publish such details in the middle of a negotiation.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,200
    edited February 5
    Nah. Not Chagos - pop theology and culture.

    This FPT is quite interesting, and illustrates several things:
    rcs1000 said:

    Do any of the Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh, or Jedi holy texts advocate the sexual enslavement of non-believing females?

    Deuteronomy 21:10-14
    1 - That's an AI yank-from-the-internet, missing context or history. That's the Twatter-culture problem right there, as seen in Musk yanking untrue snippets from all over and blasting them at his 135m followers who, often being unthinking twits, just swallow it all.

    (Hint: for anyone still wading in the Twitter swamp, you can block Musk.)

    2 - It's missing that (at least for a Christian view) that OT Law is viewed through the lens of the NT (or for Roman Catholics, the tradition of the Church), and the Mosaic law needs to be compared with mores of the time.

    3 - That imo is why Dawkins never got anywhere; he was a reductionist who thought everyone shared his nuance-free cultural spectacles - they don't.

    4 - The problem for the Trumpvangelicals is that (being a rootless post-Enlightenment movement) they treat their holy text approximately the same way as Dawkins, with tradition and nuance excised.

    And they can be left doing analysis-paralysis trying to divide a whole field of dots and tittles from underlying principles, which are a different ball game, when their Lord and Saviour basically declared the dots and tittles obsolete in one fell swoop.

    5 - I find interesting that both Trump and Vance (who does Beano level theology) seem scared of debate. When Bishop Budde, or Rory Stewart, pointed out a couple of the bits they lost when they put their Bibles through the shredding machine, their response was to demonise, not debate or defend their position.

    I think this will be one vector of critique for the Trump administration. They can try and buy all the rest, or intimidate people into silence. That won't deliver with religious professionals.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,555
    Foxy said:

    Margin of error changes mean another 3-way Labour, Reform & Conservative tie in our latest @moreincommonuk.bsky.social voting intention with Tories just ahead

    🌳 CON 26% (+2)
    🌹 LAB 24% (-1)
    ➡️ REF UK 24% (-1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 13% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 6% (-1)
    🟡 SNP 3% (+1)

    N = 2,044 Dates: 31/1- 3/2, Change w 27/1

    https://bsky.app/profile/luketryl.bsky.social/post/3lhg3xkwbjc2t

    First poll with the Tories in the lead for a while.

    On that poll Tories would win most seats and Kemi become PM with Reform support
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999
    HYUFD said:

    On current polls Labour would still win most seats on average even if they would lose their majority. So Starmer could stay PM with LD support.

    The chances of Farage becoming PM are therefore overestimated by the bookies. Even to get most seats Reform would need to rise further to 28% and even then Farage would have to do a deal with Kemi

    Stop relying on UNS. It simply won't work on these numbers.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 12,711
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dopermean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Lay the favourite!!!

    Who on earth has put £500 on Andrew Tate on Betfair?
    Based on erformance so far Darren Jones looks value, though that isn't how it'll be decided. Cooper has bottled her opportunities so far so seems unlikely.
    Didn’t Tate say he was starting a British political party? He’s most likely to be in prison in Romania at the next election, but one of his friends putting £500 on him doesn’t sound particularly outrageous.
    Indeedy-doody. Vote BRUV.

    https://www.indy100.com/politics/andrew-tate-bruv-party-politics-2670792411

    He's a kind of righty-narcissist to Brand's lefty-narcissist.

    He's probably due Taki's slot in the Speccie, at least until any conviction comes through.
    Brand has dropped lefty-narcissism for right-narcissism.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,417
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    If the UK was about to receive, from some mad self harming foreign power the dosh we are going to give the Mauritians, then the UK would be, per capita, happily expectant of

    £1,080,000,000,000

    Oh no, not another bloody Chagos thread.
    £1,080,000,000,000 "per capita" seems... implausible.
    I think he might have meant pro rata, but since no one actually knows what the figures are, it might just be the usual hyperbole ?
    Then let’s do it on a flat GDP basis. If someone was giving us what we are giving Mauritius, compared to our basic GDP, we would be eagerly awaiting a payment of

    £3,042,000,000,000
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,420
    kamski said:

    boulay said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:
    Hmmm :smile:

    UK Govt denies increased charges for Chagos deal exist.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czj3w9k7gxxo

    Labour need to tighten up/speed up their comms rebuttal. Whilst not that consequential, this shouldn't have been a story.
    It remained a fairly minor story on broadcast media but was turbocharged on here. I can't work out why. It's not like an individual poster spent all afternoon ramping the story.

    That said Government communications remain shockingly inept.
    It was a fairly minor story but most of these stories are - the Lord Ali donor story started small and was talked about a lot here before it became a mainstream media story.

    Chagos has started ramping up - the Today programme got stuck in this morning with the political correspondent saying this has been quiet but will grow when people start hearing the cost.

    Apart from the annoying use as usual of “give them back to Mauritius” (they were never Mauritian territory but simply administered from there by the French then
    the Brits) our Amol was quite cutting about it, didn’t try and gotcha Priti who was on talking about it and effectively said it’s a story that’s going to grow.

    So whilst Leon is the most influential person in all the media I think this story might have built without him talking about it here yesterday.
    "(they were never Mauritian territory but simply administered from there by the French then
    the Brits)"

    I don't think you can dismiss the claims of Mauritius quite so easily.
    Here is the summary of the 2019 ICJ advisory opinion on the matter:

    https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/169/169-20190225-SUM-01-00-EN.pdf

    when it decided 13-1 that

    having regard to international law, the process of decolonization of Mauritius was not lawfully completed when that country acceded to independence in 1968, following the separation of the Chagos Archipelago.

    the United Kingdom is under an obligation to bring to an end its administration of the Chagos Archipelago as rapidly as possible.

    all Member States are under an obligation to co-operate with the United Nations in order to complete the decolonization of Mauritius.


    The reasons are given in the document.
    In which case all the UK has to do is leave. No monetary offer need be offered.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,073

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dopermean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Lay the favourite!!!

    Who on earth has put £500 on Andrew Tate on Betfair?
    Based on erformance so far Darren Jones looks value, though that isn't how it'll be decided. Cooper has bottled her opportunities so far so seems unlikely.
    Didn’t Tate say he was starting a British political party? He’s most likely to be in prison in Romania at the next election, but one of his friends putting £500 on him doesn’t sound particularly outrageous.
    Indeedy-doody. Vote BRUV.

    https://www.indy100.com/politics/andrew-tate-bruv-party-politics-2670792411

    He's a kind of righty-narcissist to Brand's lefty-narcissist.

    He's probably due Taki's slot in the Speccie, at least until any conviction comes through.
    Brand has dropped lefty-narcissism for right-narcissism.
    There’s not that much difference between the two, and one very frequently evolves into the other. See Galloway.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,950
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    I agree with the header. I think Starmer will go in 2028, so the next PM will be Labour.

    I think Rayner is value at 19.

    There is no way on earth that Rayner could be described as "value"
    My logic is that:

    1) leaders are rarely replaced by someone like themselves, they are replaced with a person who corrects or over corrects the deficiencies of the outgoing leader.

    2) leaders are replaced by senior frontbenchers, or recent front benches, particularly when in government.

    3) There will be a desire to have a female leader.

    Reeves is out because of 1.

    So I am backing Rayner, Cooper and Phillipson as next PM, and of these Rayner or Cooper seems most likely.

    You may not like Rayner, but you are not the electorate for this contest, the Labour Party MPs, members and Trade Unions are. As she was previous shop steward the Unions will back Rayner.
    All the three suggested are duds. Coppers already tried...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,614

    It was quite clear from his wild and all over the place rants at rallies and from the one debate he had with Kamala that Trump's state of mind would mean an insane and out of control presidency and so here we all are.

    Thank you America.

    What happens if there's a shark over there, and it's about to eat American democracy?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,101

    Thoughts and prayers for those No Way Biden voters of Dearborn.

    They might soon be owning part of Gaza.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,073
    viewcode said:

    kamski said:

    boulay said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:
    Hmmm :smile:

    UK Govt denies increased charges for Chagos deal exist.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czj3w9k7gxxo

    Labour need to tighten up/speed up their comms rebuttal. Whilst not that consequential, this shouldn't have been a story.
    It remained a fairly minor story on broadcast media but was turbocharged on here. I can't work out why. It's not like an individual poster spent all afternoon ramping the story.

    That said Government communications remain shockingly inept.
    It was a fairly minor story but most of these stories are - the Lord Ali donor story started small and was talked about a lot here before it became a mainstream media story.

    Chagos has started ramping up - the Today programme got stuck in this morning with the political correspondent saying this has been quiet but will grow when people start hearing the cost.

    Apart from the annoying use as usual of “give them back to Mauritius” (they were never Mauritian territory but simply administered from there by the French then
    the Brits) our Amol was quite cutting about it, didn’t try and gotcha Priti who was on talking about it and effectively said it’s a story that’s going to grow.

    So whilst Leon is the most influential person in all the media I think this story might have built without him talking about it here yesterday.
    "(they were never Mauritian territory but simply administered from there by the French then
    the Brits)"

    I don't think you can dismiss the claims of Mauritius quite so easily.
    Here is the summary of the 2019 ICJ advisory opinion on the matter:

    https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/169/169-20190225-SUM-01-00-EN.pdf

    when it decided 13-1 that

    having regard to international law, the process of decolonization of Mauritius was not lawfully completed when that country acceded to independence in 1968, following the separation of the Chagos Archipelago.

    the United Kingdom is under an obligation to bring to an end its administration of the Chagos Archipelago as rapidly as possible.

    all Member States are under an obligation to co-operate with the United Nations in order to complete the decolonization of Mauritius.


    The reasons are given in the document.
    In which case all the UK has to do is leave. No monetary offer need be offered.
    The money is to lease the base. Now, it’s perfectly possible that we have no strategic need for it and can just tell the Americans it’s for them to deal with Mauritius in future, but the official line at least is that the MoD still wants it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,614
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    I agree with the header. I think Starmer will go in 2028, so the next PM will be Labour.

    I think Rayner is value at 19.

    There is no way on earth that Rayner could be described as "value"
    My logic is that:

    1) leaders are rarely replaced by someone like themselves, they are replaced with a person who corrects or over corrects the deficiencies of the outgoing leader.

    2) leaders are replaced by senior frontbenchers, or recent front benches, particularly when in government.

    3) There will be a desire to have a female leader.

    Reeves is out because of 1.

    So I am backing Rayner, Cooper and Phillipson as next PM, and of these Rayner or Cooper seems most likely.

    You may not like Rayner, but you are not the electorate for this contest, the Labour Party MPs, members and Trade Unions are. As she was previous shop steward the Unions will back Rayner.
    If Phillipson is still there in September pile your cash on her, because she must have the political survival skills of Boris Johnson on crack if she survives the next six months.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 12,711
    algarkirk said:

    WRT Gaza, I don't suppose anyone is really surprised that Trump has said something like what he has.

    All politics is relative, even this one. So points:

    1) Clearly Trump intends to start a new middle east negotiation start point and position, and will have achieved this.

    2) Has anyone got a better one?

    3) I and most of us (I imagine) have long supported a two state solution. But SFAICS none of the parties do, most supporting a one state solution. So two state stuff isn't happening, not since the October massacre and Gaza'a becoming rubble.

    4) What is the best one state solution which can be regarded as possible within the obvious constraints. Is it not most likely to be a radical but reluctantly agreed modification of Trump's appaarently absurd starting point?

    On (3), the Palestinian Authority, some Israeli parties in opposition, Arab states, and most UN member states support a 2-state solution.

    On (4), if one is to have a 1-state solution, it doesn't have to involve ethnic cleansing. So, no.

    Ethnic cleansing is a crime against humanity. It is not the solution to anything. It is not a starting point to anything.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,555
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Margin of error changes mean another 3-way Labour, Reform & Conservative tie in our latest @moreincommonuk.bsky.social voting intention with Tories just ahead

    🌳 CON 26% (+2)
    🌹 LAB 24% (-1)
    ➡️ REF UK 24% (-1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 13% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 6% (-1)
    🟡 SNP 3% (+1)

    N = 2,044 Dates: 31/1- 3/2, Change w 27/1

    https://bsky.app/profile/luketryl.bsky.social/post/3lhg3xkwbjc2t

    First poll with the Tories in the lead for a while.

    On that poll Tories would win most seats and Kemi become PM with Reform support
    Or at least she would be close to it with Reform and Unionist support
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,073
    edited February 5
    2 fast food meals in a row. After yesterday evening’s delicious Maccie Ds on Oxford Street it’s breakfast at Euston. In…Leon.

    Always disappointing. One tiny sliver of bacon, an OK sausage, some fancy (ie tinned tomato flavoured) baked beans, and 2 flabby fried eggs for £7.29.

    I did consider the spoons, which would have been much better value for money, but I feared missing the train.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,182
    Don't think Dan thinks this will happen...

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    16m
    The problem with the "Mad Man Strategy" is that after a while people stop taking you seriously. Everyone knows this is utterly insane and won't happen. So how is it putting pressure on anyone to negotiate.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,614
    TimS said:

    2 fast food meals in a row. After yesterday evening’s delicious Maccie Ds on Oxford Street it’s breakfast at Euston. In…Leon.

    Always disappointing. One tiny sliver of bacon, an OK sausage, some fancy (ie tinned tomato flavoured) baked beans, and 2 flabby fried eggs for £7.29.

    Why would you want to be in @Leon for breakfast? Or at any other time?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,073
    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    2 fast food meals in a row. After yesterday evening’s delicious Maccie Ds on Oxford Street it’s breakfast at Euston. In…Leon.

    Always disappointing. One tiny sliver of bacon, an OK sausage, some fancy (ie tinned tomato flavoured) baked beans, and 2 flabby fried eggs for £7.29.

    Why would you want to be in @Leon for breakfast? Or at any other time?
    I withdrew as soon as I got the juice.
This discussion has been closed.