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If today you’re confidently predicting the next general election result… – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,648
    @crampell.bsky.social‬

    It seems like the trick to negotiating with Trump is to realize he doesn’t have any idea what the current facts are.
    "Oh you want 10,000 troops?" says world leader who already deployed 15K. "Great 10k it is"
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,604
    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:
    And the update is that under no circumstances will cats be banned.
    So float a policy, via a proxy, gauge public response and then react according to it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,216

    a

    Czech beavers build planned dams in protected landscape area, while local officials were still seeking permits

    https://english.radio.cz/beavers-build-planned-dams-protected-landscape-area-while-local-officials-still-8841536

    "The beavers saved us 30 million Czech korunas. They built the dams without any project documentation—and for free," said the head of the nature reserve administration.

    Proposal - get the Wuhan lab to genetically modify beavers so they build nuclear reactors, railways, roads.
    Yeh!!

    And get bats to drive trains.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,398

    a

    Czech beavers build planned dams in protected landscape area, while local officials were still seeking permits

    https://english.radio.cz/beavers-build-planned-dams-protected-landscape-area-while-local-officials-still-8841536

    "The beavers saved us 30 million Czech korunas. They built the dams without any project documentation—and for free," said the head of the nature reserve administration.

    Proposal - get the Wuhan lab to genetically modify beavers so they build nuclear reactors, railways, roads.
    That's actually a very nice little video in the news story - some nice shots of castorigenic landscape.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,398
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:
    And the update is that under no circumstances will cats be banned.
    So float a policy, via a proxy, gauge public response and then react according to it.
    Given the original claim was in the DM and DT ...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999

    Scott_xP said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
    Not for the first time, we appear to be positioned rather well due to Brexit.
    Don't forget that Brexit is a failure, as I keep seeing on this forum. No one defines what that failure is, mind.
    @whatukthinks

    Latest @BMGResearch poll for @theipaper.
    #EURef2 vi: Join 45 (+1); Stay Out 37 (-3). Fwork 28-29.1.25 (ch since 26-27.11.24).
    Did they set out the terms of rejoin? I doubt it. Adopt the Euro, no rebate etc
    Sweden are Euro-free and it is you Leavers who binned the rebate by leaving. Any future rejoin agreement will be inferior to what we threw away. Thanks Leavers.
    I'm not a leaver - I voted remain.
    Good boy!
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,384
    Is Starmer in trouble over this voice coach thing?
  • ClippP said:

    https://x.com/trumpdailyposts/status/1886440603996840266

    I just spoke with President Claudia Sheinbaum of Mexico. It was a very friendly conversation wherein she agreed to immediately supply 10,000 Mexican Soldiers on the Border separating Mexico and the United States. These soldiers will be specifically designated to stop the flow of fentanyl, and illegal migrants into our Country. We further agreed to immediately pause the anticipated tariffs for a one month period during which we will have negotiations headed by Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Secretary of Treasury Scott Bessent, and Secretary of Commerce Howard Lutnick, and high-level Representatives of Mexico. I look forward to participating in those negotiations, with President Sheinbaum, as we attempt to achieve a “deal” between our two Countries.

    And what does Claudia say about the conversation? I will believe her version.
    I listened to her and much the same
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,895
    tlg86 said:

    Is Starmer in trouble over this voice coach thing?

    There is certainly plausible deniability that he ever got any coaching as if anything he has got worse over the years at public speaking....
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,135
    edited February 3
    tlg86 said:

    Is Starmer in trouble over this voice coach thing?

    I’d be more worried for the voice coach.

    If I was SKS I’d want my money back.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,607
    tlg86 said:

    Is Starmer in trouble over this voice coach thing?

    On breaking lockdown rules? Who knows.

    But his real problem is that his terrible vocal performance comes *after* having had voice coaching... ;)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,481

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @thetimes

    Investors fleeing the cryptocurrency market after President Trump ignited a trade war have wiped more than $500bn off the value of digital assets ⬇️

    https://x.com/basileuspi/status/1886410925684781431

    You can bet your boots Trump and Musk have been shorting crypto and have each made a gazillion dollars today in hard cash by the time they were finished. Luvvly Jubbly.
    Actually, I don't think that's true at all.

    I doubt Trump has any positions other than in $TRUMP, and that he'll be trying to dump at high speed, and this trade war doesn't help him.

    Musk is a true believer in Bitcoin, and a large chunk of Tesla's Q4 earnings came from revaluing its Bitcoin holdings upwards.
    So they've f***** themselves? How did that happen?
    You're overthinking this.

    Trump believes that tariffs are paid by exporters. He also believes that when America was truly great, it needed no income tax, and got all its taxes from tariffs.

    He puts these two together and thinks TARIFFS ARE THE ANSWER.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:
    And the update is that under no circumstances will cats be banned.
    So float a policy, via a proxy, gauge public response and then react according to it.
    As opposed to Starmer, who flies the kite, the PB brains trust shoot it down and he carries on regardless.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,398

    tlg86 said:

    Is Starmer in trouble over this voice coach thing?

    On breaking lockdown rules? Who knows.

    But his real problem is that his terrible vocal performance comes *after* having had voice coaching... ;)
    They'll be after Ramsay MacDonald for coughing in someone's face in 1919 next.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,941
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @thetimes

    Investors fleeing the cryptocurrency market after President Trump ignited a trade war have wiped more than $500bn off the value of digital assets ⬇️

    https://x.com/basileuspi/status/1886410925684781431

    You can bet your boots Trump and Musk have been shorting crypto and have each made a gazillion dollars today in hard cash by the time they were finished. Luvvly Jubbly.
    Actually, I don't think that's true at all.

    I doubt Trump has any positions other than in $TRUMP, and that he'll be trying to dump at high speed, and this trade war doesn't help him.

    Musk is a true believer in Bitcoin, and a large chunk of Tesla's Q4 earnings came from revaluing its Bitcoin holdings upwards.
    So they've f***** themselves? How did that happen?
    You're overthinking this.

    Trump believes that tariffs are paid by exporters. He also believes that when America was truly great, it needed no income tax, and got all its taxes from tariffs.

    He puts these two together and thinks TARIFFS ARE THE ANSWER.
    Even simpler - consider Trump's past business dealings and how many times he has managed to fuck himself. What has changed?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,914
    edited February 3

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
    Not for the first time, we appear to be positioned rather well due to Brexit.
    Don't forget that Brexit is a failure, as I keep seeing on this forum. No one defines what that failure is, mind.
    It is one of those 'settled PB views'.
    It’s the public’s settled view.
    Ironically, the three or four people who still haven’t twigged that Brexit was a failure seem to post regularly on here.
    And, yet, there is very little appetite to reopen or reverse it.

    What you have to distinguish is those who think Brexit is a failure because it hasn't gone far enough, or the powers been taken advantage of enough, over those who think it was a fundamental mistake and should be reversed.

    That's the bit your side keeps missing.
    I personally don’t favour a re-entry.
    The juice is not worth ten years of squeeze right now.

    That’s distinct from Brexit, which has delivered ten years of squeeze with no juice whatsoever.

    And, yet, it has. We have a more nimble foreign policy, we have different regulations on GM crops and on AI now, and this government has also taken advantage of some of the powers. We have a broader range of trade agreements. And our services exports to the EU are booming. Our domestic politics is no longer dominated by "ever closer union" federalism.

    There is no form of EU membership I'd favour. Consider people like me dormant, but we'd absolutely rise up to fight again should a rejoin movement ever get political traction.

    Not right for us then, not now, not ever.
    Britain is a notably weaker power since 2016, since it is longer regarded as able to exert pressure on its European peers. The nimble foreign policy is merely your characterisation, though of course the Uk has repatriated the opportunity to apply trade sanctions.

    Britain forfeited its opportunity to influence GM and AI policy inside the EU. Hopefully the different regulations you refer to pay dividends in the years ahead. In other areas, such as the chemical industry and with regard to the EU’s proposed carbon tax, Britain is essentially reduced to being a rule taker. It has no choice given the EU and EEA comprises ~50% of its trade. Likewise, the supposed broader range of trade agreements in no way compensate for the friction introduced to trade with the EU. It’s like comparing a bucket with a lake.

    Services may be “booming” but British goods exports show significantly worse performance than G7 peers. Goods production, by the way, is relatively more focused on so-called “left behind” regions.

    Disappointingly, Britain has not taken advantage of EU exit to initiate democratic reforms, and the Brexiter-in-chief attempted to prorogue parliament illegally while holding parliamentary procedure in contempt.

    It may be true that removing the false discourse around “ever closer union” means the UK politics can focus on the much more vital question of a dysfunctional planning regime, lack of infrastructure investment, pension reform, and over-centralisation, but it seems like we’re still at the beginning of that journey.
    But, do you accept that if Brexit can be seen as a failure for the reasons you post in your last two paragraphs that this does not naturally lead to "Rejoin", because it's about our failure to take full advantage of our scope for self-governance?
    I’ve already said that I don’t believe it correct to “Rejoin”, at least right now.

    Brexit is a failure economically, diplomatically, culturally, and politically. But it is what it is, and my own view is that Britain is best off working on a very close, bespoke partnership.

    I thought Max’s post yesterday on joining Schengen was interesting.

    Britain does have an opportunity to almost rethink its European position from a blank page, albeit thinking geopolitically doesn’t seem to come naturally to the British political mind since Blair, and his own geopolitical strategy must be regarded a failure.
    Yeah, but it's not, is it?

    That's just a list of superlatives the answer to all of which seem to be: full membership of the European Union. That hasn't been and has never been the case.

    You massively overstate your case, which is why you don't get the hearing you want.

    I agree a model of close (but sovereign) cooperation between the UK and EU that's bespoke for both makes sense. So why not work on that?
    You’ll never accept Brexit’s failure because your whole worldview is wrapped up in it. Of course that’s true of many on both sides.

    Britain is poorer, less powerful, and culturally less vibrant as a result of Brexit. Brexit created 8 years of political polarisation and dysfunction (perhaps more, it may have killed off the Conservative party). It placed massive stress on the Union. Brexit put Boris Johnson in power and Brexit led to the Boriswave. Brexit undermined several British institutions.

    I doubt anyone would have voted for it had they fully understood what it would deliver.

    But, as I said, we are where we are.
    There’s no good back.
    Britain has to create a new model, although it probably looks quite similar to the old one, even if it’s not called “EU membership”.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999
    edited February 3
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @thetimes

    Investors fleeing the cryptocurrency market after President Trump ignited a trade war have wiped more than $500bn off the value of digital assets ⬇️

    https://x.com/basileuspi/status/1886410925684781431

    You can bet your boots Trump and Musk have been shorting crypto and have each made a gazillion dollars today in hard cash by the time they were finished. Luvvly Jubbly.
    Actually, I don't think that's true at all.

    I doubt Trump has any positions other than in $TRUMP, and that he'll be trying to dump at high speed, and this trade war doesn't help him.

    Musk is a true believer in Bitcoin, and a large chunk of Tesla's Q4 earnings came from revaluing its Bitcoin holdings upwards.
    So they've f***** themselves? How did that happen?
    You're overthinking this.

    Trump believes that tariffs are paid by exporters. He also believes that when America was truly great, it needed no income tax, and got all its taxes from tariffs.

    He puts these two together and thinks TARIFFS ARE THE ANSWER.
    But, but, has Trump ever paid income tax?

    Did they not teach about the Great Depression and the casual effect of the Smoot Hawley Act at his elementary school?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,914
    Scott_xP said:

    @crampell.bsky.social‬

    It seems like the trick to negotiating with Trump is to realize he doesn’t have any idea what the current facts are.
    "Oh you want 10,000 troops?" says world leader who already deployed 15K. "Great 10k it is"

    Pretty sure this is actually true.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,220
    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:
    And the update is that under no circumstances will cats be banned.
    You believe the SNP?
  • tlg86 said:

    Is Starmer in trouble over this voice coach thing?

    Only if he doesn’t ask for a refund otherwise this flags up as a money laundering exercise.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,941

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @thetimes

    Investors fleeing the cryptocurrency market after President Trump ignited a trade war have wiped more than $500bn off the value of digital assets ⬇️

    https://x.com/basileuspi/status/1886410925684781431

    You can bet your boots Trump and Musk have been shorting crypto and have each made a gazillion dollars today in hard cash by the time they were finished. Luvvly Jubbly.
    Actually, I don't think that's true at all.

    I doubt Trump has any positions other than in $TRUMP, and that he'll be trying to dump at high speed, and this trade war doesn't help him.

    Musk is a true believer in Bitcoin, and a large chunk of Tesla's Q4 earnings came from revaluing its Bitcoin holdings upwards.
    So they've f***** themselves? How did that happen?
    You're overthinking this.

    Trump believes that tariffs are paid by exporters. He also believes that when America was truly great, it needed no income tax, and got all its taxes from tariffs.

    He puts these two together and thinks TARIFFS ARE THE ANSWER.
    Did they not teach about the Great Depression and the casual effect of the Smoot Hawley Act at his elementary school?
    Stop 10 people in the street at random. Pretty high odds that they won't know anything about Smoot Hawley.

    You've probably stopped 10 people who know more than Trump.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,940

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @thetimes

    Investors fleeing the cryptocurrency market after President Trump ignited a trade war have wiped more than $500bn off the value of digital assets ⬇️

    https://x.com/basileuspi/status/1886410925684781431

    You can bet your boots Trump and Musk have been shorting crypto and have each made a gazillion dollars today in hard cash by the time they were finished. Luvvly Jubbly.
    Actually, I don't think that's true at all.

    I doubt Trump has any positions other than in $TRUMP, and that he'll be trying to dump at high speed, and this trade war doesn't help him.

    Musk is a true believer in Bitcoin, and a large chunk of Tesla's Q4 earnings came from revaluing its Bitcoin holdings upwards.
    So they've f***** themselves? How did that happen?
    You're overthinking this.

    Trump believes that tariffs are paid by exporters. He also believes that when America was truly great, it needed no income tax, and got all its taxes from tariffs.

    He puts these two together and thinks TARIFFS ARE THE ANSWER.
    Did they not teach about the Great Depression and the casual effect of the Smoot Hawley Act at his elementary school?
    A teacher writes:

    The school very probably taught it.

    It's just that Diddy Don didn't learn it.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
    Not for the first time, we appear to be positioned rather well due to Brexit.
    Don't forget that Brexit is a failure, as I keep seeing on this forum. No one defines what that failure is, mind.
    It is one of those 'settled PB views'.
    It’s the public’s settled view.
    Ironically, the three or four people who still haven’t twigged that Brexit was a failure seem to post regularly on here.
    And, yet, there is very little appetite to reopen or reverse it.

    What you have to distinguish is those who think Brexit is a failure because it hasn't gone far enough, or the powers been taken advantage of enough, over those who think it was a fundamental mistake and should be reversed.

    That's the bit your side keeps missing.
    I personally don’t favour a re-entry.
    The juice is not worth ten years of squeeze right now.

    That’s distinct from Brexit, which has delivered ten years of squeeze with no juice whatsoever.

    And, yet, it has. We have a more nimble foreign policy, we have different regulations on GM crops and on AI now, and this government has also taken advantage of some of the powers. We have a broader range of trade agreements. And our services exports to the EU are booming. Our domestic politics is no longer dominated by "ever closer union" federalism.

    There is no form of EU membership I'd favour. Consider people like me dormant, but we'd absolutely rise up to fight again should a rejoin movement ever get political traction.

    Not right for us then, not now, not ever.
    Britain is a notably weaker power since 2016, since it is longer regarded as able to exert pressure on its European peers. The nimble foreign policy is merely your characterisation, though of course the Uk has repatriated the opportunity to apply trade sanctions.

    Britain forfeited its opportunity to influence GM and AI policy inside the EU. Hopefully the different regulations you refer to pay dividends in the years ahead. In other areas, such as the chemical industry and with regard to the EU’s proposed carbon tax, Britain is essentially reduced to being a rule taker. It has no choice given the EU and EEA comprises ~50% of its trade. Likewise, the supposed broader range of trade agreements in no way compensate for the friction introduced to trade with the EU. It’s like comparing a bucket with a lake.

    Services may be “booming” but British goods exports show significantly worse performance than G7 peers. Goods production, by the way, is relatively more focused on so-called “left behind” regions.

    Disappointingly, Britain has not taken advantage of EU exit to initiate democratic reforms, and the Brexiter-in-chief attempted to prorogue parliament illegally while holding parliamentary procedure in contempt.

    It may be true that removing the false discourse around “ever closer union” means the UK politics can focus on the much more vital question of a dysfunctional planning regime, lack of infrastructure investment, pension reform, and over-centralisation, but it seems like we’re still at the beginning of that journey.
    But, do you accept that if Brexit can be seen as a failure for the reasons you post in your last two paragraphs that this does not naturally lead to "Rejoin", because it's about our failure to take full advantage of our scope for self-governance?
    I’ve already said that I don’t believe it correct to “Rejoin”, at least right now.

    Brexit is a failure economically, diplomatically, culturally, and politically. But it is what it is, and my own view is that Britain is best off working on a very close, bespoke partnership.

    I thought Max’s post yesterday on joining Schengen was interesting.

    Britain does have an opportunity to almost rethink its European position from a blank page, albeit thinking geopolitically doesn’t seem to come naturally to the British political mind since Blair, and his own geopolitical strategy must be regarded a failure.
    Yeah, but it's not, is it?

    That's just a list of superlatives the answer to all of which seem to be: full membership of the European Union. That hasn't been and has never been the case.

    You massively overstate your case, which is why you don't get the hearing you want.

    I agree a model of close (but sovereign) cooperation between the UK and EU that's bespoke for both makes sense. So why not work on that?
    You’ll never accept Brexit’s failure because your whole worldview is wrapped up in it. Of course that’s true of many on both sides.

    Britain is poorer, less powerful, and culturally less vibrant as a result of Brexit. Brexit created 8 years of political polarisation and dysfunction (perhaps more, it may have killed off the Conservative party). It placed massive stress on the Union. Brexit put Boris Johnson in power and Brexit led to the Boriswave. Brexit undermined several British institutions.

    I doubt anyone would have voted for it had they fully understood what it would deliver.

    But, as I said, we are where we are.
    There’s no good back.
    Britain has to create a new model, although it probably looks quite similar to the old one, even if it’s not called “EU membership”.
    It wasn't all bad.

    Without Brexit Boris Johnson and Liz Truss would never have become Prime Ministers...
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,081

    Taz said:

    maxh said:

    Can I defend Wetherspoon's please?

    As one of those unfortunate types (I know, I know, we're a rare breed on this forum) who definitely have to watch their pennies when going to the pub, the 'double breakfast' whereby one can order two whole Wetherspoon's breakfasts and not have to chop off one's own toenails for sale on the black market in recompense pleases me greatly.

    Easy to be sniffy at Spoons. Nothing wrong with it. The beer is decent and doesn't cost the earth. The food is fine for what it is.

    Plenty of remainers knock Spoons for no better reason than they don't like the owner.
    The young people love Spoons. Once my daughter turned 18 she practically lived at the Brockley Barge.
    There was I time I also frequented the Barge. Back then it was just about the only pub in the area where you didn’t get stared at when you walked in. Didn’t realise it is now a youth hang out though.

    And you are wrong on McDonald’s. It’s excellent. Knocks spots off KFC, BK, Morley’s, even Pizza Hut (to which I’m a bit partial). So much so that last weekend I bought some chuck steak, got it minced, and am going to do a snackmasters-style attempt with my daughter (who’s a big McD fan) to perfectly replicate a McDonald’s cheeseburger. Complete with tiny slivers of iceberg lettuce, microwaved (it works) tiny chopped onions, gherkin, the works.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,911
    MattW said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:
    And the update is that under no circumstances will cats be banned.
    You believe the SNP?
    On this one, yes I suppose I do. I cannot see them banning cats.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @thetimes

    Investors fleeing the cryptocurrency market after President Trump ignited a trade war have wiped more than $500bn off the value of digital assets ⬇️

    https://x.com/basileuspi/status/1886410925684781431

    You can bet your boots Trump and Musk have been shorting crypto and have each made a gazillion dollars today in hard cash by the time they were finished. Luvvly Jubbly.
    Actually, I don't think that's true at all.

    I doubt Trump has any positions other than in $TRUMP, and that he'll be trying to dump at high speed, and this trade war doesn't help him.

    Musk is a true believer in Bitcoin, and a large chunk of Tesla's Q4 earnings came from revaluing its Bitcoin holdings upwards.
    So they've f***** themselves? How did that happen?
    You're overthinking this.

    Trump believes that tariffs are paid by exporters. He also believes that when America was truly great, it needed no income tax, and got all its taxes from tariffs.

    He puts these two together and thinks TARIFFS ARE THE ANSWER.
    But, but, has Trump ever paid income tax?

    Did they not teach about the Great Depression and the casual effect of the Smoot Hawley Act at his elementary school?
    A tip for posters. Autocorrect changes causal to casual.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,135

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
    Not for the first time, we appear to be positioned rather well due to Brexit.
    Don't forget that Brexit is a failure, as I keep seeing on this forum. No one defines what that failure is, mind.
    It is one of those 'settled PB views'.
    It’s the public’s settled view.
    Ironically, the three or four people who still haven’t twigged that Brexit was a failure seem to post regularly on here.
    And, yet, there is very little appetite to reopen or reverse it.

    What you have to distinguish is those who think Brexit is a failure because it hasn't gone far enough, or the powers been taken advantage of enough, over those who think it was a fundamental mistake and should be reversed.

    That's the bit your side keeps missing.
    I personally don’t favour a re-entry.
    The juice is not worth ten years of squeeze right now.

    That’s distinct from Brexit, which has delivered ten years of squeeze with no juice whatsoever.

    And, yet, it has. We have a more nimble foreign policy, we have different regulations on GM crops and on AI now, and this government has also taken advantage of some of the powers. We have a broader range of trade agreements. And our services exports to the EU are booming. Our domestic politics is no longer dominated by "ever closer union" federalism.

    There is no form of EU membership I'd favour. Consider people like me dormant, but we'd absolutely rise up to fight again should a rejoin movement ever get political traction.

    Not right for us then, not now, not ever.
    Britain is a notably weaker power since 2016, since it is longer regarded as able to exert pressure on its European peers. The nimble foreign policy is merely your characterisation, though of course the Uk has repatriated the opportunity to apply trade sanctions.

    Britain forfeited its opportunity to influence GM and AI policy inside the EU. Hopefully the different regulations you refer to pay dividends in the years ahead. In other areas, such as the chemical industry and with regard to the EU’s proposed carbon tax, Britain is essentially reduced to being a rule taker. It has no choice given the EU and EEA comprises ~50% of its trade. Likewise, the supposed broader range of trade agreements in no way compensate for the friction introduced to trade with the EU. It’s like comparing a bucket with a lake.

    Services may be “booming” but British goods exports show significantly worse performance than G7 peers. Goods production, by the way, is relatively more focused on so-called “left behind” regions.

    Disappointingly, Britain has not taken advantage of EU exit to initiate democratic reforms, and the Brexiter-in-chief attempted to prorogue parliament illegally while holding parliamentary procedure in contempt.

    It may be true that removing the false discourse around “ever closer union” means the UK politics can focus on the much more vital question of a dysfunctional planning regime, lack of infrastructure investment, pension reform, and over-centralisation, but it seems like we’re still at the beginning of that journey.
    But, do you accept that if Brexit can be seen as a failure for the reasons you post in your last two paragraphs that this does not naturally lead to "Rejoin", because it's about our failure to take full advantage of our scope for self-governance?
    I’ve already said that I don’t believe it correct to “Rejoin”, at least right now.

    Brexit is a failure economically, diplomatically, culturally, and politically. But it is what it is, and my own view is that Britain is best off working on a very close, bespoke partnership.

    I thought Max’s post yesterday on joining Schengen was interesting.

    Britain does have an opportunity to almost rethink its European position from a blank page, albeit thinking geopolitically doesn’t seem to come naturally to the British political mind since Blair, and his own geopolitical strategy must be regarded a failure.
    Yeah, but it's not, is it?

    That's just a list of superlatives the answer to all of which seem to be: full membership of the European Union. That hasn't been and has never been the case.

    You massively overstate your case, which is why you don't get the hearing you want.

    I agree a model of close (but sovereign) cooperation between the UK and EU that's bespoke for both makes sense. So why not work on that?
    You’ll never accept Brexit’s failure because your whole worldview is wrapped up in it. Of course that’s true of many on both sides.

    Britain is poorer, less powerful, and culturally less vibrant as a result of Brexit. Brexit created 8 years of political polarisation and dysfunction (perhaps more, it may have killed off the Conservatives party). Brexit put Boris Johnson in power and Brexit led to the Boriswave.

    I doubt anyone would have voted for it had they fully understood what it would deliver.

    But, as I said, we are where we are.
    There’s no good back.
    Britain has to create a new model, although it probably looks quite similar to the old one, even if it’s not called “EU membership”.
    I don’t blame people for voting for Brexit. I think, like the majority it appears, it was in hindsight the wrong decision, but there was and still is lots wrong with the EU too.

    Like my view in 2016, and why I voted remain, I think our long term interests were to stay in the club and seek reform from the inside - and while lots of people scoff at that because of the inflexible bureaucracy, I think the winds of change are starting to blow at that level nowadays.

    The final thing I’ll say is that I can at least entertain the argument that the Brexit we got was the worst of all worlds - a system where we appear dogmatically opposed to the best bits of Europe whilst simultaneously remaining tied to the worst bits. The Tories started off on the wrong foot under May and just exacerbated the problems under Johnson.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,000
    edited February 3

    Bunch of snobs in here. I’m a fan of Spoons food although it isn’t as good as it was before COVID.

    I am not a snob, I am an elitist, the dictionary makes an important distinction between the two.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,502
    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    maxh said:

    Can I defend Wetherspoon's please?

    As one of those unfortunate types (I know, I know, we're a rare breed on this forum) who definitely have to watch their pennies when going to the pub, the 'double breakfast' whereby one can order two whole Wetherspoon's breakfasts and not have to chop off one's own toenails for sale on the black market in recompense pleases me greatly.

    Easy to be sniffy at Spoons. Nothing wrong with it. The beer is decent and doesn't cost the earth. The food is fine for what it is.

    Plenty of remainers knock Spoons for no better reason than they don't like the owner.
    The young people love Spoons. Once my daughter turned 18 she practically lived at the Brockley Barge.
    There was I time I also frequented the Barge. Back then it was just about the only pub in the area where you didn’t get stared at when you walked in. Didn’t realise it is now a youth hang out though.

    And you are wrong on McDonald’s. It’s excellent. Knocks spots off KFC, BK, Morley’s, even Pizza Hut (to which I’m a bit partial). So much so that last weekend I bought some chuck steak, got it minced, and am going to do a snackmasters-style attempt with my daughter (who’s a big McD fan) to perfectly replicate a McDonald’s cheeseburger. Complete with tiny slivers of iceberg lettuce, microwaved (it works) tiny chopped onions, gherkin, the works.
    How do you plan to make the bun all soggy?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,825
    Leon said:

    Trump is a huge Anglophile - his golf course etc

    Musk is on record as identifying himself as “English” - not South African or American. He deems himself as ethnically English

    Vance is an old English surname

    We have here the most pro-British presidency in many decades. We should exploit it and bring their revolution home

    total bollox, nobody can deal with a llying madman.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,081
    edited February 3
    IanB2 said:

    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    maxh said:

    Can I defend Wetherspoon's please?

    As one of those unfortunate types (I know, I know, we're a rare breed on this forum) who definitely have to watch their pennies when going to the pub, the 'double breakfast' whereby one can order two whole Wetherspoon's breakfasts and not have to chop off one's own toenails for sale on the black market in recompense pleases me greatly.

    Easy to be sniffy at Spoons. Nothing wrong with it. The beer is decent and doesn't cost the earth. The food is fine for what it is.

    Plenty of remainers knock Spoons for no better reason than they don't like the owner.
    The young people love Spoons. Once my daughter turned 18 she practically lived at the Brockley Barge.
    There was I time I also frequented the Barge. Back then it was just about the only pub in the area where you didn’t get stared at when you walked in. Didn’t realise it is now a youth hang out though.

    And you are wrong on McDonald’s. It’s excellent. Knocks spots off KFC, BK, Morley’s, even Pizza Hut (to which I’m a bit partial). So much so that last weekend I bought some chuck steak, got it minced, and am going to do a snackmasters-style attempt with my daughter (who’s a big McD fan) to perfectly replicate a McDonald’s cheeseburger. Complete with tiny slivers of iceberg lettuce, microwaved (it works) tiny chopped onions, gherkin, the works.
    How do you plan to make the bun all soggy?
    You’re clearly going to the wrong Maccie-Ds. One of the strengths of their burgers is the taut, fluffy, yielding but still holding their shape buns.

    My current outlet is Oxford street, on Harewood place just up from Hanover Square. I’m there most Tuesday evenings grabbing an extremely cheap cheeseburger (or occasionally a double cheeseburger) on the way to choir practice. Their buns are always bang on.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,641

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
    Not for the first time, we appear to be positioned rather well due to Brexit.
    Don't forget that Brexit is a failure, as I keep seeing on this forum. No one defines what that failure is, mind.
    It is one of those 'settled PB views'.
    It’s the public’s settled view.
    Ironically, the three or four people who still haven’t twigged that Brexit was a failure seem to post regularly on here.
    And, yet, there is very little appetite to reopen or reverse it.

    What you have to distinguish is those who think Brexit is a failure because it hasn't gone far enough, or the powers been taken advantage of enough, over those who think it was a fundamental mistake and should be reversed.

    That's the bit your side keeps missing.
    I personally don’t favour a re-entry.
    The juice is not worth ten years of squeeze right now.

    That’s distinct from Brexit, which has delivered ten years of squeeze with no juice whatsoever.

    And, yet, it has. We have a more nimble foreign policy, we have different regulations on GM crops and on AI now, and this government has also taken advantage of some of the powers. We have a broader range of trade agreements. And our services exports to the EU are booming. Our domestic politics is no longer dominated by "ever closer union" federalism.

    There is no form of EU membership I'd favour. Consider people like me dormant, but we'd absolutely rise up to fight again should a rejoin movement ever get political traction.

    Not right for us then, not now, not ever.
    Britain is a notably weaker power since 2016, since it is longer regarded as able to exert pressure on its European peers. The nimble foreign policy is merely your characterisation, though of course the Uk has repatriated the opportunity to apply trade sanctions.

    Britain forfeited its opportunity to influence GM and AI policy inside the EU. Hopefully the different regulations you refer to pay dividends in the years ahead. In other areas, such as the chemical industry and with regard to the EU’s proposed carbon tax, Britain is essentially reduced to being a rule taker. It has no choice given the EU and EEA comprises ~50% of its trade. Likewise, the supposed broader range of trade agreements in no way compensate for the friction introduced to trade with the EU. It’s like comparing a bucket with a lake.

    Services may be “booming” but British goods exports show significantly worse performance than G7 peers. Goods production, by the way, is relatively more focused on so-called “left behind” regions.

    Disappointingly, Britain has not taken advantage of EU exit to initiate democratic reforms, and the Brexiter-in-chief attempted to prorogue parliament illegally while holding parliamentary procedure in contempt.

    It may be true that removing the false discourse around “ever closer union” means the UK politics can focus on the much more vital question of a dysfunctional planning regime, lack of infrastructure investment, pension reform, and over-centralisation, but it seems like we’re still at the beginning of that journey.
    But, do you accept that if Brexit can be seen as a failure for the reasons you post in your last two paragraphs that this does not naturally lead to "Rejoin", because it's about our failure to take full advantage of our scope for self-governance?
    I’ve already said that I don’t believe it correct to “Rejoin”, at least right now.

    Brexit is a failure economically, diplomatically, culturally, and politically. But it is what it is, and my own view is that Britain is best off working on a very close, bespoke partnership.

    I thought Max’s post yesterday on joining Schengen was interesting.

    Britain does have an opportunity to almost rethink its European position from a blank page, albeit thinking geopolitically doesn’t seem to come naturally to the British political mind since Blair, and his own geopolitical strategy must be regarded a failure.
    Yeah, but it's not, is it?

    That's just a list of superlatives the answer to all of which seem to be: full membership of the European Union. That hasn't been and has never been the case.

    You massively overstate your case, which is why you don't get the hearing you want.

    I agree a model of close (but sovereign) cooperation between the UK and EU that's bespoke for both makes sense. So why not work on that?
    You’ll never accept Brexit’s failure because your whole worldview is wrapped up in it. Of course that’s true of many on both sides.

    Britain is poorer, less powerful, and culturally less vibrant as a result of Brexit. Brexit created 8 years of political polarisation and dysfunction (perhaps more, it may have killed off the Conservatives party). Brexit put Boris Johnson in power and Brexit led to the Boriswave.

    I doubt anyone would have voted for it had they fully understood what it would deliver.

    But, as I said, we are where we are.
    There’s no good back.
    Britain has to create a new model, although it probably looks quite similar to the old one, even if it’s not called “EU membership”.
    I don’t blame people for voting for Brexit. I think, like the majority it appears, it was in hindsight the wrong decision, but there was and still is lots wrong with the EU too.

    Like my view in 2016, and why I voted remain, I think our long term interests were to stay in the club and seek reform from the inside - and while lots of people scoff at that because of the inflexible bureaucracy, I think the winds of change are starting to blow at that level nowadays.

    The final thing I’ll say is that I can at least entertain the argument that the Brexit we got was the worst of all worlds - a system where we appear dogmatically opposed to the best bits of Europe whilst simultaneously remaining tied to the worst bits. The Tories started off on the wrong foot under May and just exacerbated the problems under Johnson.
    Brexit shouldn't have happened and with Blair wouldn't have.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,793
    Leon said:

    Trump is a huge Anglophile - his golf course etc

    Musk is on record as identifying himself as “English” - not South African or American. He deems himself as ethnically English

    Vance is an old English surname

    We have here the most pro-British presidency in many decades. We should exploit it and bring their revolution home

    Biden is an old English surname too - that didn't stop the senile old coot being rabidly anti-British.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,604

    Bunch of snobs in here. I’m a fan of Spoons food although it isn’t as good as it was before COVID.

    Hear hear, and there will be plenty of snobs here, after all Spoons isn’t at least a BIB Gourmand.

    Spoons is great at what it does and as it’s patrons are fine. Never had an issue there and recently had a nice afternoon in the one in Morpeth while my partner had an eye test.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,604

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @thetimes

    Investors fleeing the cryptocurrency market after President Trump ignited a trade war have wiped more than $500bn off the value of digital assets ⬇️

    https://x.com/basileuspi/status/1886410925684781431

    You can bet your boots Trump and Musk have been shorting crypto and have each made a gazillion dollars today in hard cash by the time they were finished. Luvvly Jubbly.
    Actually, I don't think that's true at all.

    I doubt Trump has any positions other than in $TRUMP, and that he'll be trying to dump at high speed, and this trade war doesn't help him.

    Musk is a true believer in Bitcoin, and a large chunk of Tesla's Q4 earnings came from revaluing its Bitcoin holdings upwards.
    So they've f***** themselves? How did that happen?
    You're overthinking this.

    Trump believes that tariffs are paid by exporters. He also believes that when America was truly great, it needed no income tax, and got all its taxes from tariffs.

    He puts these two together and thinks TARIFFS ARE THE ANSWER.
    But, but, has Trump ever paid income tax?

    Did they not teach about the Great Depression and the casual effect of the Smoot Hawley Act at his elementary school?
    Andrew Neil on savage form about the stupidity of Trumps tariffs.

    I get the impression this is a rare topic here as there’s near unanimity on the inherent stupidity of it.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,793

    I can’t help thinking that Trump simply woke up, saw the stock market down, and various anti-tariff noises from the business community, and - decided to twist.

    Mexico had a deal with Biden to hold back the migrants using their army in his tough re‐election year, thereafter to be released, presumably especially in the event of a wrong result. Trump was well aware of this fact and has used the threat of tariffs to keep the inevitable flood from being allowed to happen. It's fairly sensible (unlike the Canada thing as far as I can see), and some PBers need better info sources on Trump. The Spectator's Americano podcast is pretty good .
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,861

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
    Not for the first time, we appear to be positioned rather well due to Brexit.
    Don't forget that Brexit is a failure, as I keep seeing on this forum. No one defines what that failure is, mind.
    It is one of those 'settled PB views'.
    It’s the public’s settled view.
    Ironically, the three or four people who still haven’t twigged that Brexit was a failure seem to post regularly on here.
    And, yet, there is very little appetite to reopen or reverse it.

    What you have to distinguish is those who think Brexit is a failure because it hasn't gone far enough, or the powers been taken advantage of enough, over those who think it was a fundamental mistake and should be reversed.

    That's the bit your side keeps missing.
    I personally don’t favour a re-entry.
    The juice is not worth ten years of squeeze right now.

    That’s distinct from Brexit, which has delivered ten years of squeeze with no juice whatsoever.

    And, yet, it has. We have a more nimble foreign policy, we have different regulations on GM crops and on AI now, and this government has also taken advantage of some of the powers. We have a broader range of trade agreements. And our services exports to the EU are booming. Our domestic politics is no longer dominated by "ever closer union" federalism.

    There is no form of EU membership I'd favour. Consider people like me dormant, but we'd absolutely rise up to fight again should a rejoin movement ever get political traction.

    Not right for us then, not now, not ever.
    Britain is a notably weaker power since 2016, since it is longer regarded as able to exert pressure on its European peers. The nimble foreign policy is merely your characterisation, though of course the Uk has repatriated the opportunity to apply trade sanctions.

    Britain forfeited its opportunity to influence GM and AI policy inside the EU. Hopefully the different regulations you refer to pay dividends in the years ahead. In other areas, such as the chemical industry and with regard to the EU’s proposed carbon tax, Britain is essentially reduced to being a rule taker. It has no choice given the EU and EEA comprises ~50% of its trade. Likewise, the supposed broader range of trade agreements in no way compensate for the friction introduced to trade with the EU. It’s like comparing a bucket with a lake.

    Services may be “booming” but British goods exports show significantly worse performance than G7 peers. Goods production, by the way, is relatively more focused on so-called “left behind” regions.

    Disappointingly, Britain has not taken advantage of EU exit to initiate democratic reforms, and the Brexiter-in-chief attempted to prorogue parliament illegally while holding parliamentary procedure in contempt.

    It may be true that removing the false discourse around “ever closer union” means the UK politics can focus on the much more vital question of a dysfunctional planning regime, lack of infrastructure investment, pension reform, and over-centralisation, but it seems like we’re still at the beginning of that journey.
    But, do you accept that if Brexit can be seen as a failure for the reasons you post in your last two paragraphs that this does not naturally lead to "Rejoin", because it's about our failure to take full advantage of our scope for self-governance?
    I’ve already said that I don’t believe it correct to “Rejoin”, at least right now.

    Brexit is a failure economically, diplomatically, culturally, and politically. But it is what it is, and my own view is that Britain is best off working on a very close, bespoke partnership.

    I thought Max’s post yesterday on joining Schengen was interesting.

    Britain does have an opportunity to almost rethink its European position from a blank page, albeit thinking geopolitically doesn’t seem to come naturally to the British political mind since Blair, and his own geopolitical strategy must be regarded a failure.
    Yeah, but it's not, is it?

    That's just a list of superlatives the answer to all of which seem to be: full membership of the European Union. That hasn't been and has never been the case.

    You massively overstate your case, which is why you don't get the hearing you want.

    I agree a model of close (but sovereign) cooperation between the UK and EU that's bespoke for both makes sense. So why not work on that?
    You’ll never accept Brexit’s failure because your whole worldview is wrapped up in it. Of course that’s true of many on both sides.

    Britain is poorer, less powerful, and culturally less vibrant as a result of Brexit. Brexit created 8 years of political polarisation and dysfunction (perhaps more, it may have killed off the Conservative party). It placed massive stress on the Union. Brexit put Boris Johnson in power and Brexit led to the Boriswave. Brexit undermined several British institutions.

    I doubt anyone would have voted for it had they fully understood what it would deliver.

    But, as I said, we are where we are.
    There’s no good back.
    Britain has to create a new model, although it probably looks quite similar to the old one, even if it’s not called “EU membership”.
    Absolute nonsense.

    I could say, and far more accurately, that your whole worldview is invested in Britain's membership of the EU.

    It's pathetic, as well as desperate.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,125
    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    maxh said:

    Can I defend Wetherspoon's please?

    As one of those unfortunate types (I know, I know, we're a rare breed on this forum) who definitely have to watch their pennies when going to the pub, the 'double breakfast' whereby one can order two whole Wetherspoon's breakfasts and not have to chop off one's own toenails for sale on the black market in recompense pleases me greatly.

    Easy to be sniffy at Spoons. Nothing wrong with it. The beer is decent and doesn't cost the earth. The food is fine for what it is.

    Plenty of remainers knock Spoons for no better reason than they don't like the owner.
    The young people love Spoons. Once my daughter turned 18 she practically lived at the Brockley Barge.
    There was I time I also frequented the Barge. Back then it was just about the only pub in the area where you didn’t get stared at when you walked in. Didn’t realise it is now a youth hang out though.

    And you are wrong on McDonald’s. It’s excellent. Knocks spots off KFC, BK, Morley’s, even Pizza Hut (to which I’m a bit partial). So much so that last weekend I bought some chuck steak, got it minced, and am going to do a snackmasters-style attempt with my daughter (who’s a big McD fan) to perfectly replicate a McDonald’s cheeseburger. Complete with tiny slivers of iceberg lettuce, microwaved (it works) tiny chopped onions, gherkin, the works.
    Pizza Hut?!
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,342
    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    maxh said:

    Can I defend Wetherspoon's please?

    As one of those unfortunate types (I know, I know, we're a rare breed on this forum) who definitely have to watch their pennies when going to the pub, the 'double breakfast' whereby one can order two whole Wetherspoon's breakfasts and not have to chop off one's own toenails for sale on the black market in recompense pleases me greatly.

    Wetherspoons is the McDonald’s of pubs. It’s not brilliant, but you know it’s going to be okay and you’ll get good value for money.

    In pretty much any town, the cheapest pub is always going to be a focus for those who society has mostly left behind.
    In a beer desert, such as many towns in the West of Scotland, spoons is the only place that sells a decent pint.
    I assume the beer desert extends to the far Northwest. I’m off on my long weekend to Assynt in a few days. Shall stock up on drinks at the supermarket in Inverness rather than relying on the pubs of Lochinver.
    AFAIK the nearest real ale to Lochinver is the Inchnanamph Hotel. You may wish to check this link. https://camra.org.uk/pubs
    If you’re buying beer in Inverness, I recommend Cromarty.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,648
    Trump's US Attorney in DC is offering legal protection for Musk and his fratboys.

    Trump is the puppet. Musk is pulling the strings.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,880
      Trump's tariffs are purely a negotiating ploy. He cos-plays a madman enamoured of tariffs to get the "deals" he wants with these threats. Mexico just caved. I have no idea what he wants out of Canada
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,648
    @owenslindsay1

    This is an excellent summary of Musk’s takeover of the Treasury from @NYMag’s @chasdanner, with quotes from WSJ, NYT, WaPo, and my op-ed from @MSNBC yesterday.

    But this quote from @smotus is right on the money.

    This isn’t efficiency. It’s a coup.

    https://x.com/owenslindsay1/status/1886111059112554519
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,604
    Taz said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @thetimes

    Investors fleeing the cryptocurrency market after President Trump ignited a trade war have wiped more than $500bn off the value of digital assets ⬇️

    https://x.com/basileuspi/status/1886410925684781431

    You can bet your boots Trump and Musk have been shorting crypto and have each made a gazillion dollars today in hard cash by the time they were finished. Luvvly Jubbly.
    Actually, I don't think that's true at all.

    I doubt Trump has any positions other than in $TRUMP, and that he'll be trying to dump at high speed, and this trade war doesn't help him.

    Musk is a true believer in Bitcoin, and a large chunk of Tesla's Q4 earnings came from revaluing its Bitcoin holdings upwards.
    So they've f***** themselves? How did that happen?
    You're overthinking this.

    Trump believes that tariffs are paid by exporters. He also believes that when America was truly great, it needed no income tax, and got all its taxes from tariffs.

    He puts these two together and thinks TARIFFS ARE THE ANSWER.
    But, but, has Trump ever paid income tax?

    Did they not teach about the Great Depression and the casual effect of the Smoot Hawley Act at his elementary school?
    Andrew Neil on savage form about the stupidity of Trumps tariffs.

    I get the impression this is a rare topic here as there’s near unanimity on the inherent stupidity of it.
    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1886357823145046462?s=61
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,829
    edited February 3
    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @thetimes

    Investors fleeing the cryptocurrency market after President Trump ignited a trade war have wiped more than $500bn off the value of digital assets ⬇️

    https://x.com/basileuspi/status/1886410925684781431

    You can bet your boots Trump and Musk have been shorting crypto and have each made a gazillion dollars today in hard cash by the time they were finished. Luvvly Jubbly.
    Actually, I don't think that's true at all.

    I doubt Trump has any positions other than in $TRUMP, and that he'll be trying to dump at high speed, and this trade war doesn't help him.

    Musk is a true believer in Bitcoin, and a large chunk of Tesla's Q4 earnings came from revaluing its Bitcoin holdings upwards.
    Well we don't hold any BTC but we do revalue our foreign co assets and liabilities at quarter/year end (EUR/USD). So revaluing BTC holdings at period ends makes sense to me and (though it's not explicitly spelled out) US GAAP/FRS

    If our suppliers and customers started using BTC I suppose we'd hold some.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,398

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    maxh said:

    Can I defend Wetherspoon's please?

    As one of those unfortunate types (I know, I know, we're a rare breed on this forum) who definitely have to watch their pennies when going to the pub, the 'double breakfast' whereby one can order two whole Wetherspoon's breakfasts and not have to chop off one's own toenails for sale on the black market in recompense pleases me greatly.

    Wetherspoons is the McDonald’s of pubs. It’s not brilliant, but you know it’s going to be okay and you’ll get good value for money.

    In pretty much any town, the cheapest pub is always going to be a focus for those who society has mostly left behind.
    In a beer desert, such as many towns in the West of Scotland, spoons is the only place that sells a decent pint.
    I assume the beer desert extends to the far Northwest. I’m off on my long weekend to Assynt in a few days. Shall stock up on drinks at the supermarket in Inverness rather than relying on the pubs of Lochinver.
    AFAIK the nearest real ale to Lochinver is the Inchnanamph Hotel. You may wish to check this link. https://camra.org.uk/pubs
    If you’re buying beer in Inverness, I recommend Cromarty.
    Famous to anyone with an interest in geology and scenery!

    https://www.geolsoc.org.uk/Geoscientist/Archive/January-2007/Peach-and-Horne-the-memoir-at-100
  • eekeek Posts: 29,138
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @thetimes

    Investors fleeing the cryptocurrency market after President Trump ignited a trade war have wiped more than $500bn off the value of digital assets ⬇️

    https://x.com/basileuspi/status/1886410925684781431

    You can bet your boots Trump and Musk have been shorting crypto and have each made a gazillion dollars today in hard cash by the time they were finished. Luvvly Jubbly.
    Actually, I don't think that's true at all.

    I doubt Trump has any positions other than in $TRUMP, and that he'll be trying to dump at high speed, and this trade war doesn't help him.

    Musk is a true believer in Bitcoin, and a large chunk of Tesla's Q4 earnings came from revaluing its Bitcoin holdings upwards.
    Well we don't hold any BTC but we do revalue our foreign co assets and liabilities at quarter/year end (EUR/USD). So revaluing BTC holdings at period ends makes sense to me and (though it's not explicitly spelled out) US GAAP/FRS

    If our suppliers and customers started using BTC I suppose we'd hold some.
    i'm at a loss as to what the economic value/purpose of a BTC actually is.

    As a method of moving money across borders it makes sense but beyond that what else does it offer.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,342
    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    maxh said:

    Can I defend Wetherspoon's please?

    As one of those unfortunate types (I know, I know, we're a rare breed on this forum) who definitely have to watch their pennies when going to the pub, the 'double breakfast' whereby one can order two whole Wetherspoon's breakfasts and not have to chop off one's own toenails for sale on the black market in recompense pleases me greatly.

    Wetherspoons is the McDonald’s of pubs. It’s not brilliant, but you know it’s going to be okay and you’ll get good value for money.

    In pretty much any town, the cheapest pub is always going to be a focus for those who society has mostly left behind.
    In a beer desert, such as many towns in the West of Scotland, spoons is the only place that sells a decent pint.
    I assume the beer desert extends to the far Northwest. I’m off on my long weekend to Assynt in a few days. Shall stock up on drinks at the supermarket in Inverness rather than relying on the pubs of Lochinver.
    AFAIK the nearest real ale to Lochinver is the Inchnanamph Hotel. You may wish to check this link. https://camra.org.uk/pubs
    If you’re buying beer in Inverness, I recommend Cromarty.
    Famous to anyone with an interest in geology and scenery!

    https://www.geolsoc.org.uk/Geoscientist/Archive/January-2007/Peach-and-Horne-the-memoir-at-100
    Assynt rocks!
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,604
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @thetimes

    Investors fleeing the cryptocurrency market after President Trump ignited a trade war have wiped more than $500bn off the value of digital assets ⬇️

    https://x.com/basileuspi/status/1886410925684781431

    You can bet your boots Trump and Musk have been shorting crypto and have each made a gazillion dollars today in hard cash by the time they were finished. Luvvly Jubbly.
    Actually, I don't think that's true at all.

    I doubt Trump has any positions other than in $TRUMP, and that he'll be trying to dump at high speed, and this trade war doesn't help him.

    Musk is a true believer in Bitcoin, and a large chunk of Tesla's Q4 earnings came from revaluing its Bitcoin holdings upwards.
    So they've f***** themselves? How did that happen?
    You're overthinking this.

    Trump believes that tariffs are paid by exporters. He also believes that when America was truly great, it needed no income tax, and got all its taxes from tariffs.

    He puts these two together and thinks TARIFFS ARE THE ANSWER.
    But, but, has Trump ever paid income tax?

    Did they not teach about the Great Depression and the casual effect of the Smoot Hawley Act at his elementary school?
    Andrew Neil on savage form about the stupidity of Trumps tariffs.

    I get the impression this is a rare topic here as there’s near unanimity on the inherent stupidity of it.
    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1886357823145046462?s=61
    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1886409224756060259?s=61
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,108
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Trump is a huge Anglophile - his golf course etc

    Musk is on record as identifying himself as “English” - not South African or American. He deems himself as ethnically English

    Vance is an old English surname

    We have here the most pro-British presidency in many decades. We should exploit it and bring their revolution home

    total bollox, nobody can deal with a llying madman.
    Not even in Ayrshire?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,398

    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    maxh said:

    Can I defend Wetherspoon's please?

    As one of those unfortunate types (I know, I know, we're a rare breed on this forum) who definitely have to watch their pennies when going to the pub, the 'double breakfast' whereby one can order two whole Wetherspoon's breakfasts and not have to chop off one's own toenails for sale on the black market in recompense pleases me greatly.

    Wetherspoons is the McDonald’s of pubs. It’s not brilliant, but you know it’s going to be okay and you’ll get good value for money.

    In pretty much any town, the cheapest pub is always going to be a focus for those who society has mostly left behind.
    In a beer desert, such as many towns in the West of Scotland, spoons is the only place that sells a decent pint.
    I assume the beer desert extends to the far Northwest. I’m off on my long weekend to Assynt in a few days. Shall stock up on drinks at the supermarket in Inverness rather than relying on the pubs of Lochinver.
    AFAIK the nearest real ale to Lochinver is the Inchnanamph Hotel. You may wish to check this link. https://camra.org.uk/pubs
    If you’re buying beer in Inverness, I recommend Cromarty.
    Famous to anyone with an interest in geology and scenery!

    https://www.geolsoc.org.uk/Geoscientist/Archive/January-2007/Peach-and-Horne-the-memoir-at-100
    Assynt rocks!
    That's pretty much the thrust of the matter.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,138
    edited February 3

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @thetimes

    Investors fleeing the cryptocurrency market after President Trump ignited a trade war have wiped more than $500bn off the value of digital assets ⬇️

    https://x.com/basileuspi/status/1886410925684781431

    You can bet your boots Trump and Musk have been shorting crypto and have each made a gazillion dollars today in hard cash by the time they were finished. Luvvly Jubbly.
    Actually, I don't think that's true at all.

    I doubt Trump has any positions other than in $TRUMP, and that he'll be trying to dump at high speed, and this trade war doesn't help him.

    Musk is a true believer in Bitcoin, and a large chunk of Tesla's Q4 earnings came from revaluing its Bitcoin holdings upwards.
    So they've f***** themselves? How did that happen?
    You're overthinking this.

    Trump believes that tariffs are paid by exporters. He also believes that when America was truly great, it needed no income tax, and got all its taxes from tariffs.

    He puts these two together and thinks TARIFFS ARE THE ANSWER.
    But, but, has Trump ever paid income tax?

    Did they not teach about the Great Depression and the casual effect of the Smoot Hawley Act at his elementary school?
    He skipped that lesson but equally I don't think Trump sees cause and effect all he sees is scoring points off others...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,108
    geoffw said:

      Trump's tariffs are purely a negotiating ploy. He cos-plays a madman enamoured of tariffs to get the "deals" he wants with these threats. Mexico just caved. I have no idea what he wants out of Canada

    Nor, I suspect, has he!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,829
    edited February 3
    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @thetimes

    Investors fleeing the cryptocurrency market after President Trump ignited a trade war have wiped more than $500bn off the value of digital assets ⬇️

    https://x.com/basileuspi/status/1886410925684781431

    You can bet your boots Trump and Musk have been shorting crypto and have each made a gazillion dollars today in hard cash by the time they were finished. Luvvly Jubbly.
    Actually, I don't think that's true at all.

    I doubt Trump has any positions other than in $TRUMP, and that he'll be trying to dump at high speed, and this trade war doesn't help him.

    Musk is a true believer in Bitcoin, and a large chunk of Tesla's Q4 earnings came from revaluing its Bitcoin holdings upwards.
    Well we don't hold any BTC but we do revalue our foreign co assets and liabilities at quarter/year end (EUR/USD). So revaluing BTC holdings at period ends makes sense to me and (though it's not explicitly spelled out) US GAAP/FRS

    If our suppliers and customers started using BTC I suppose we'd hold some.
    i'm at a loss as to what the economic value/purpose of a BTC actually is.

    As a method of moving money across borders it makes sense but beyond that what else does it offer.
    Confidence and faith, the same as any other currency ?

    Our income is generally EUR, CoS for that income mostly EUR, our payroll and overhead GBP and dividends USD so personally I'm well used to managing differing currencies.
    BTC isn't currently used for any of those purposes so no point in holding as a company, it'd be pure speculation for us anyway - but if other stakeholders started using it who have a relation to us I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand in the future.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,604
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @thetimes

    Investors fleeing the cryptocurrency market after President Trump ignited a trade war have wiped more than $500bn off the value of digital assets ⬇️

    https://x.com/basileuspi/status/1886410925684781431

    You can bet your boots Trump and Musk have been shorting crypto and have each made a gazillion dollars today in hard cash by the time they were finished. Luvvly Jubbly.
    Actually, I don't think that's true at all.

    I doubt Trump has any positions other than in $TRUMP, and that he'll be trying to dump at high speed, and this trade war doesn't help him.

    Musk is a true believer in Bitcoin, and a large chunk of Tesla's Q4 earnings came from revaluing its Bitcoin holdings upwards.
    Well we don't hold any BTC but we do revalue our foreign co assets and liabilities at quarter/year end (EUR/USD). So revaluing BTC holdings at period ends makes sense to me and (though it's not explicitly spelled out) US GAAP/FRS

    If our suppliers and customers started using BTC I suppose we'd hold some.
    I don’t hold any either. It has no store of value. It offers no growth in equity or dividend. There’s nothing that underpins it. Just growth from more and more people wanting to buy it.

    Still at least it’s now Hakw Tuah Girls meme coin.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,811

    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    maxh said:

    Can I defend Wetherspoon's please?

    As one of those unfortunate types (I know, I know, we're a rare breed on this forum) who definitely have to watch their pennies when going to the pub, the 'double breakfast' whereby one can order two whole Wetherspoon's breakfasts and not have to chop off one's own toenails for sale on the black market in recompense pleases me greatly.

    Wetherspoons is the McDonald’s of pubs. It’s not brilliant, but you know it’s going to be okay and you’ll get good value for money.

    In pretty much any town, the cheapest pub is always going to be a focus for those who society has mostly left behind.
    In a beer desert, such as many towns in the West of Scotland, spoons is the only place that sells a decent pint.
    I assume the beer desert extends to the far Northwest. I’m off on my long weekend to Assynt in a few days. Shall stock up on drinks at the supermarket in Inverness rather than relying on the pubs of Lochinver.
    AFAIK the nearest real ale to Lochinver is the Inchnanamph Hotel. You may wish to check this link. https://camra.org.uk/pubs
    If you’re buying beer in Inverness, I recommend Cromarty.
    Famous to anyone with an interest in geology and scenery!

    https://www.geolsoc.org.uk/Geoscientist/Archive/January-2007/Peach-and-Horne-the-memoir-at-100
    Assynt rocks!
    One of my favourite places in the whole British Isles.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,811
    On topic observation:

    Reform will not break the glass ceiling and achieve wider popularity as long as Farage is still a possible future PM. Indeed I would suggest this is the Reform conundrum. They need Farage to get to 25% plus but he actively stops them getting past 35% plus.

  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,342
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    maxh said:

    Can I defend Wetherspoon's please?

    As one of those unfortunate types (I know, I know, we're a rare breed on this forum) who definitely have to watch their pennies when going to the pub, the 'double breakfast' whereby one can order two whole Wetherspoon's breakfasts and not have to chop off one's own toenails for sale on the black market in recompense pleases me greatly.

    Wetherspoons is the McDonald’s of pubs. It’s not brilliant, but you know it’s going to be okay and you’ll get good value for money.

    In pretty much any town, the cheapest pub is always going to be a focus for those who society has mostly left behind.
    In a beer desert, such as many towns in the West of Scotland, spoons is the only place that sells a decent pint.
    I assume the beer desert extends to the far Northwest. I’m off on my long weekend to Assynt in a few days. Shall stock up on drinks at the supermarket in Inverness rather than relying on the pubs of Lochinver.
    AFAIK the nearest real ale to Lochinver is the Inchnanamph Hotel. You may wish to check this link. https://camra.org.uk/pubs
    If you’re buying beer in Inverness, I recommend Cromarty.
    Famous to anyone with an interest in geology and scenery!

    https://www.geolsoc.org.uk/Geoscientist/Archive/January-2007/Peach-and-Horne-the-memoir-at-100
    Assynt rocks!
    That's pretty much the thrust of the matter.
    Is that you moineing again?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,811
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    maxh said:

    Can I defend Wetherspoon's please?

    As one of those unfortunate types (I know, I know, we're a rare breed on this forum) who definitely have to watch their pennies when going to the pub, the 'double breakfast' whereby one can order two whole Wetherspoon's breakfasts and not have to chop off one's own toenails for sale on the black market in recompense pleases me greatly.

    Wetherspoons is the McDonald’s of pubs. It’s not brilliant, but you know it’s going to be okay and you’ll get good value for money.

    In pretty much any town, the cheapest pub is always going to be a focus for those who society has mostly left behind.
    In a beer desert, such as many towns in the West of Scotland, spoons is the only place that sells a decent pint.
    I assume the beer desert extends to the far Northwest. I’m off on my long weekend to Assynt in a few days. Shall stock up on drinks at the supermarket in Inverness rather than relying on the pubs of Lochinver.
    AFAIK the nearest real ale to Lochinver is the Inchnanamph Hotel. You may wish to check this link. https://camra.org.uk/pubs
    If you’re buying beer in Inverness, I recommend Cromarty.
    Famous to anyone with an interest in geology and scenery!

    https://www.geolsoc.org.uk/Geoscientist/Archive/January-2007/Peach-and-Horne-the-memoir-at-100
    Assynt rocks!
    That's pretty much the thrust of the matter.
    That is clearly your opinion and it would also be Moine. ;)
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,135

    On topic observation:

    Reform will not break the glass ceiling and achieve wider popularity as long as Farage is still a possible future PM. Indeed I would suggest this is the Reform conundrum. They need Farage to get to 25% plus but he actively stops them getting past 35% plus.

    I agree, but 35% is probably enough to stand a decent chance of forming a government, depending on where the other parties sit.
  • x

    tlg86 said:

    Is Starmer in trouble over this voice coach thing?

    Only if he doesn’t ask for a refund otherwise this flags up as a money laundering exercise.
    Just like your modesty coach?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,342

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    maxh said:

    Can I defend Wetherspoon's please?

    As one of those unfortunate types (I know, I know, we're a rare breed on this forum) who definitely have to watch their pennies when going to the pub, the 'double breakfast' whereby one can order two whole Wetherspoon's breakfasts and not have to chop off one's own toenails for sale on the black market in recompense pleases me greatly.

    Wetherspoons is the McDonald’s of pubs. It’s not brilliant, but you know it’s going to be okay and you’ll get good value for money.

    In pretty much any town, the cheapest pub is always going to be a focus for those who society has mostly left behind.
    In a beer desert, such as many towns in the West of Scotland, spoons is the only place that sells a decent pint.
    I assume the beer desert extends to the far Northwest. I’m off on my long weekend to Assynt in a few days. Shall stock up on drinks at the supermarket in Inverness rather than relying on the pubs of Lochinver.
    AFAIK the nearest real ale to Lochinver is the Inchnanamph Hotel. You may wish to check this link. https://camra.org.uk/pubs
    If you’re buying beer in Inverness, I recommend Cromarty.
    Famous to anyone with an interest in geology and scenery!

    https://www.geolsoc.org.uk/Geoscientist/Archive/January-2007/Peach-and-Horne-the-memoir-at-100
    Assynt rocks!
    That's pretty much the thrust of the matter.
    That is clearly your opinion and it would also be Moine. ;)
    That’s a gneiss comment.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,220
    Since we are on beer, did we do the pub in Nottingham who said "a free print for every away goal", then Forest won 7-0 ?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c74e7qdzk53o
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,338
    edited February 3
    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @thetimes

    Investors fleeing the cryptocurrency market after President Trump ignited a trade war have wiped more than $500bn off the value of digital assets ⬇️

    https://x.com/basileuspi/status/1886410925684781431

    You can bet your boots Trump and Musk have been shorting crypto and have each made a gazillion dollars today in hard cash by the time they were finished. Luvvly Jubbly.
    Actually, I don't think that's true at all.

    I doubt Trump has any positions other than in $TRUMP, and that he'll be trying to dump at high speed, and this trade war doesn't help him.

    Musk is a true believer in Bitcoin, and a large chunk of Tesla's Q4 earnings came from revaluing its Bitcoin holdings upwards.
    Well we don't hold any BTC but we do revalue our foreign co assets and liabilities at quarter/year end (EUR/USD). So revaluing BTC holdings at period ends makes sense to me and (though it's not explicitly spelled out) US GAAP/FRS

    If our suppliers and customers started using BTC I suppose we'd hold some.
    i'm at a loss as to what the economic value/purpose of a BTC actually is.

    As a method of moving money across borders it makes sense but beyond that what else does it offer.
    Two things:

    - gambling as there is a good chance some other idiot will pay more for it than you did
    - money laundering if you can ignore get around the KYC requirements.

    Those are where crypto adds value.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,793

    On topic observation:

    Reform will not break the glass ceiling and achieve wider popularity as long as Farage is still a possible future PM. Indeed I would suggest this is the Reform conundrum. They need Farage to get to 25% plus but he actively stops them getting past 35% plus.

    He's doing quite well then because I'm sure he used to be what was stopping them getting to 15%. Hopefully he will soon be stopping them getting to 55%.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,911

    I can’t help thinking that Trump simply woke up, saw the stock market down, and various anti-tariff noises from the business community, and - decided to twist.

    Mexico had a deal with Biden to hold back the migrants using their army in his tough re‐election year, thereafter to be released, presumably especially in the event of a wrong result. Trump was well aware of this fact and has used the threat of tariffs to keep the inevitable flood from being allowed to happen. It's fairly sensible (unlike the Canada thing as far as I can see), and some PBers need better info sources on Trump. The Spectator's Americano podcast is pretty good .
    I'll venture it isn't.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,793

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    maxh said:

    Can I defend Wetherspoon's please?

    As one of those unfortunate types (I know, I know, we're a rare breed on this forum) who definitely have to watch their pennies when going to the pub, the 'double breakfast' whereby one can order two whole Wetherspoon's breakfasts and not have to chop off one's own toenails for sale on the black market in recompense pleases me greatly.

    Wetherspoons is the McDonald’s of pubs. It’s not brilliant, but you know it’s going to be okay and you’ll get good value for money.

    In pretty much any town, the cheapest pub is always going to be a focus for those who society has mostly left behind.
    In a beer desert, such as many towns in the West of Scotland, spoons is the only place that sells a decent pint.
    I assume the beer desert extends to the far Northwest. I’m off on my long weekend to Assynt in a few days. Shall stock up on drinks at the supermarket in Inverness rather than relying on the pubs of Lochinver.
    AFAIK the nearest real ale to Lochinver is the Inchnanamph Hotel. You may wish to check this link. https://camra.org.uk/pubs
    If you’re buying beer in Inverness, I recommend Cromarty.
    Famous to anyone with an interest in geology and scenery!

    https://www.geolsoc.org.uk/Geoscientist/Archive/January-2007/Peach-and-Horne-the-memoir-at-100
    Assynt rocks!
    That's pretty much the thrust of the matter.
    That is clearly your opinion and it would also be Moine. ;)
    That’s a gneiss comment.
    Sedimentary my dear Watson.*

    *I know it's probably not sedimentary. #geologydunce
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,135
    edited February 3
    MaxPB said:

    maxh said:

    Can I defend Wetherspoon's please?

    As one of those unfortunate types (I know, I know, we're a rare breed on this forum) who definitely have to watch their pennies when going to the pub, the 'double breakfast' whereby one can order two whole Wetherspoon's breakfasts and not have to chop off one's own toenails for sale on the black market in recompense pleases me greatly.

    Wetherspoons is unfairly maligned, it provides okay meals on a budget for when people are out and about with a good pint of bitter. It saved me a lot when I was at uni on a budget and there's a lot of remainer snobbishness about it since Brexit.
    I think attitudes are slowly changing towards it, at least a bit, as the cost of restaurant meals creeps steadily upwards. It bears repeating that dining out nowadays is an expensive experience, and sometimes all people want is the ability to leave the house and sit somewhere and have food made for them and perhaps have a drink or two. Im not suggesting it’s somewhere you’d go for a treat, but it fills a gap in the market.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,793
    kinabalu said:

    I can’t help thinking that Trump simply woke up, saw the stock market down, and various anti-tariff noises from the business community, and - decided to twist.

    Mexico had a deal with Biden to hold back the migrants using their army in his tough re‐election year, thereafter to be released, presumably especially in the event of a wrong result. Trump was well aware of this fact and has used the threat of tariffs to keep the inevitable flood from being allowed to happen. It's fairly sensible (unlike the Canada thing as far as I can see), and some PBers need better info sources on Trump. The Spectator's Americano podcast is pretty good .
    I'll venture it isn't.
    Well there is a lamentable lack of Rory Stewart or Alistair Campbell, so I could see you finding it a tough listen.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,914

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
    Not for the first time, we appear to be positioned rather well due to Brexit.
    Don't forget that Brexit is a failure, as I keep seeing on this forum. No one defines what that failure is, mind.
    It is one of those 'settled PB views'.
    It’s the public’s settled view.
    Ironically, the three or four people who still haven’t twigged that Brexit was a failure seem to post regularly on here.
    And, yet, there is very little appetite to reopen or reverse it.

    What you have to distinguish is those who think Brexit is a failure because it hasn't gone far enough, or the powers been taken advantage of enough, over those who think it was a fundamental mistake and should be reversed.

    That's the bit your side keeps missing.
    I personally don’t favour a re-entry.
    The juice is not worth ten years of squeeze right now.

    That’s distinct from Brexit, which has delivered ten years of squeeze with no juice whatsoever.

    And, yet, it has. We have a more nimble foreign policy, we have different regulations on GM crops and on AI now, and this government has also taken advantage of some of the powers. We have a broader range of trade agreements. And our services exports to the EU are booming. Our domestic politics is no longer dominated by "ever closer union" federalism.

    There is no form of EU membership I'd favour. Consider people like me dormant, but we'd absolutely rise up to fight again should a rejoin movement ever get political traction.

    Not right for us then, not now, not ever.
    Britain is a notably weaker power since 2016, since it is longer regarded as able to exert pressure on its European peers. The nimble foreign policy is merely your characterisation, though of course the Uk has repatriated the opportunity to apply trade sanctions.

    Britain forfeited its opportunity to influence GM and AI policy inside the EU. Hopefully the different regulations you refer to pay dividends in the years ahead. In other areas, such as the chemical industry and with regard to the EU’s proposed carbon tax, Britain is essentially reduced to being a rule taker. It has no choice given the EU and EEA comprises ~50% of its trade. Likewise, the supposed broader range of trade agreements in no way compensate for the friction introduced to trade with the EU. It’s like comparing a bucket with a lake.

    Services may be “booming” but British goods exports show significantly worse performance than G7 peers. Goods production, by the way, is relatively more focused on so-called “left behind” regions.

    Disappointingly, Britain has not taken advantage of EU exit to initiate democratic reforms, and the Brexiter-in-chief attempted to prorogue parliament illegally while holding parliamentary procedure in contempt.

    It may be true that removing the false discourse around “ever closer union” means the UK politics can focus on the much more vital question of a dysfunctional planning regime, lack of infrastructure investment, pension reform, and over-centralisation, but it seems like we’re still at the beginning of that journey.
    But, do you accept that if Brexit can be seen as a failure for the reasons you post in your last two paragraphs that this does not naturally lead to "Rejoin", because it's about our failure to take full advantage of our scope for self-governance?
    I’ve already said that I don’t believe it correct to “Rejoin”, at least right now.

    Brexit is a failure economically, diplomatically, culturally, and politically. But it is what it is, and my own view is that Britain is best off working on a very close, bespoke partnership.

    I thought Max’s post yesterday on joining Schengen was interesting.

    Britain does have an opportunity to almost rethink its European position from a blank page, albeit thinking geopolitically doesn’t seem to come naturally to the British political mind since Blair, and his own geopolitical strategy must be regarded a failure.
    Yeah, but it's not, is it?

    That's just a list of superlatives the answer to all of which seem to be: full membership of the European Union. That hasn't been and has never been the case.

    You massively overstate your case, which is why you don't get the hearing you want.

    I agree a model of close (but sovereign) cooperation between the UK and EU that's bespoke for both makes sense. So why not work on that?
    You’ll never accept Brexit’s failure because your whole worldview is wrapped up in it. Of course that’s true of many on both sides.

    Britain is poorer, less powerful, and culturally less vibrant as a result of Brexit. Brexit created 8 years of political polarisation and dysfunction (perhaps more, it may have killed off the Conservative party). It placed massive stress on the Union. Brexit put Boris Johnson in power and Brexit led to the Boriswave. Brexit undermined several British institutions.

    I doubt anyone would have voted for it had they fully understood what it would deliver.

    But, as I said, we are where we are.
    There’s no good back.
    Britain has to create a new model, although it probably looks quite similar to the old one, even if it’s not called “EU membership”.
    Absolute nonsense.

    I could say, and far more accurately, that your whole worldview is invested in Britain's membership of the EU.

    It's pathetic, as well as desperate.
    Paging Dr Freud! Lol.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,607
    edited February 3
    MattW said:

    Since we are on beer, did we do the pub in Nottingham who said "a free print for every away goal", then Forest won 7-0 ?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c74e7qdzk53o

    Oh my. I used to know that pub quite well a couple of decades ago. :)

    Edit. I think... has it been renamed?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,263

    kinabalu said:

    I can’t help thinking that Trump simply woke up, saw the stock market down, and various anti-tariff noises from the business community, and - decided to twist.

    Mexico had a deal with Biden to hold back the migrants using their army in his tough re‐election year, thereafter to be released, presumably especially in the event of a wrong result. Trump was well aware of this fact and has used the threat of tariffs to keep the inevitable flood from being allowed to happen. It's fairly sensible (unlike the Canada thing as far as I can see), and some PBers need better info sources on Trump. The Spectator's Americano podcast is pretty good .
    I'll venture it isn't.
    Well there is a lamentable lack of Rory Stewart or Alistair Campbell, so I could see you finding it a tough listen.
    Christ, that Stewart and Campbell podcast is excruciating.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,216
    Luke Tryl omits to mention the elephant in the room.

    Trump 2.0 upending the world economic system makes predicting next GE even harder.

    If his madness actually works then maybe good for Reform and Farage.

    If it results in late 1920s depression then probably good for steady Starmer.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,911
    Cookie said:

    MaxPB said:

    maxh said:

    Can I defend Wetherspoon's please?

    As one of those unfortunate types (I know, I know, we're a rare breed on this forum) who definitely have to watch their pennies when going to the pub, the 'double breakfast' whereby one can order two whole Wetherspoon's breakfasts and not have to chop off one's own toenails for sale on the black market in recompense pleases me greatly.

    Wetherspoons is unfairly maligned, it provides okay meals on a budget for when people are out and about with a good pint of bitter. It saved me a lot when I was at uni on a budget and there's a lot of remainer snobbishness about it since Brexit.
    Yes, Spoons is almost never worse than adequate, usually in the top half of quality beer in any given town, and excellent value for money.
    In Terry Pratchett's Colour of Magic, he discusses the efforts pubs went to in the80s to attract custom - music, refurbs, entertainment, themes - and
    wonders that no-one yet appears to have considered sellinggood quality beer cheaply. A few years later, Spoons came along doing exactly that. And it works.
    It does. I like it. There's always a bunch of blokes getting stuck into their 3rd at noon, 48 going on 75, you can't tell, and wtf not. Not everyone wants to do DIY or gardening.
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 721

    Leon said:

    Trump is a huge Anglophile - his golf course etc

    Musk is on record as identifying himself as “English” - not South African or American. He deems himself as ethnically English

    Vance is an old English surname

    We have here the most pro-British presidency in many decades. We should exploit it and bring their revolution home

    Biden is an old English surname too - that didn't stop the senile old coot being rabidly anti-British.
    Some of Biden's ancestors came from the Sussex village quarter of a mile from me. Two are buried in the local Churchyard. But it was only his Irish ancestors he was interested in.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,216

    MaxPB said:

    maxh said:

    Can I defend Wetherspoon's please?

    As one of those unfortunate types (I know, I know, we're a rare breed on this forum) who definitely have to watch their pennies when going to the pub, the 'double breakfast' whereby one can order two whole Wetherspoon's breakfasts and not have to chop off one's own toenails for sale on the black market in recompense pleases me greatly.

    Wetherspoons is unfairly maligned, it provides okay meals on a budget for when people are out and about with a good pint of bitter. It saved me a lot when I was at uni on a budget and there's a lot of remainer snobbishness about it since Brexit.
    I think attitudes are slowly changing towards it, at least a bit, as the cost of restaurant meals creeps steadily upwards. It bears repeating that dining out nowadays is an expensive experience, and sometimes all people want is the ability to leave the house and sit somewhere and have food made for them and perhaps have a drink or two. Im not suggesting it’s somewhere you’d go for a treat, but it fills a gap in the market.
    Clearly fills a gap. Wetherspoons has to be easily one of the most successful start-ups of the last thirty years or so. Astonishing level of business success for all the moaning.

    At least someone seems to know how to keep pub culture alive.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,169
    Taz said:

    Andrew Neil on savage form about the stupidity of Trumps tariffs.

    I get the impression this is a rare topic here as there’s near unanimity on the inherent stupidity of it.

    Blanket tariffs are perhaps only second to rent control on the list of things that almost all economists agree are a bad thing.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,911

    kinabalu said:

    I can’t help thinking that Trump simply woke up, saw the stock market down, and various anti-tariff noises from the business community, and - decided to twist.

    Mexico had a deal with Biden to hold back the migrants using their army in his tough re‐election year, thereafter to be released, presumably especially in the event of a wrong result. Trump was well aware of this fact and has used the threat of tariffs to keep the inevitable flood from being allowed to happen. It's fairly sensible (unlike the Canada thing as far as I can see), and some PBers need better info sources on Trump. The Spectator's Americano podcast is pretty good .
    I'll venture it isn't.
    Well there is a lamentable lack of Rory Stewart or Alistair Campbell, so I could see you finding it a tough listen.
    Who've we got on there then?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,607
    SandraMc said:

    Leon said:

    Trump is a huge Anglophile - his golf course etc

    Musk is on record as identifying himself as “English” - not South African or American. He deems himself as ethnically English

    Vance is an old English surname

    We have here the most pro-British presidency in many decades. We should exploit it and bring their revolution home

    Biden is an old English surname too - that didn't stop the senile old coot being rabidly anti-British.
    Some of Biden's ancestors came from the Sussex village quarter of a mile from me. Two are buried in the local Churchyard. But it was only his Irish ancestors he was interested in.
    Walt Disney visiting Lincolnshire...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qVb-bkly-k
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    maxh said:

    Can I defend Wetherspoon's please?

    As one of those unfortunate types (I know, I know, we're a rare breed on this forum) who definitely have to watch their pennies when going to the pub, the 'double breakfast' whereby one can order two whole Wetherspoon's breakfasts and not have to chop off one's own toenails for sale on the black market in recompense pleases me greatly.

    Wetherspoons is the McDonald’s of pubs. It’s not brilliant, but you know it’s going to be okay and you’ll get good value for money.

    In pretty much any town, the cheapest pub is always going to be a focus for those who society has mostly left behind.
    In a beer desert, such as many towns in the West of Scotland, spoons is the only place that sells a decent pint.
    I assume the beer desert extends to the far Northwest. I’m off on my long weekend to Assynt in a few days. Shall stock up on drinks at the supermarket in Inverness rather than relying on the pubs of Lochinver.
    AFAIK the nearest real ale to Lochinver is the Inchnanamph Hotel. You may wish to check this link. https://camra.org.uk/pubs
    If you’re buying beer in Inverness, I recommend Cromarty.
    Famous to anyone with an interest in geology and scenery!

    https://www.geolsoc.org.uk/Geoscientist/Archive/January-2007/Peach-and-Horne-the-memoir-at-100
    Assynt rocks!
    That's pretty much the thrust of the matter.
    That is clearly your opinion and it would also be Moine. ;)
    That’s a gneiss comment.
    Nah, it's schist!
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,081

    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    maxh said:

    Can I defend Wetherspoon's please?

    As one of those unfortunate types (I know, I know, we're a rare breed on this forum) who definitely have to watch their pennies when going to the pub, the 'double breakfast' whereby one can order two whole Wetherspoon's breakfasts and not have to chop off one's own toenails for sale on the black market in recompense pleases me greatly.

    Wetherspoons is the McDonald’s of pubs. It’s not brilliant, but you know it’s going to be okay and you’ll get good value for money.

    In pretty much any town, the cheapest pub is always going to be a focus for those who society has mostly left behind.
    In a beer desert, such as many towns in the West of Scotland, spoons is the only place that sells a decent pint.
    I assume the beer desert extends to the far Northwest. I’m off on my long weekend to Assynt in a few days. Shall stock up on drinks at the supermarket in Inverness rather than relying on the pubs of Lochinver.
    AFAIK the nearest real ale to Lochinver is the Inchnanamph Hotel. You may wish to check this link. https://camra.org.uk/pubs
    If you’re buying beer in Inverness, I recommend Cromarty.
    Famous to anyone with an interest in geology and scenery!

    https://www.geolsoc.org.uk/Geoscientist/Archive/January-2007/Peach-and-Horne-the-memoir-at-100
    Assynt rocks!
    One of my favourite places in the whole British Isles.
    This is highly encouraging. Not been there before, and booking in February was a risk but the forecast is sunny and cold with some snow on the tops.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,604
    Asda equal pay claim. Mainly upheld. Asda will appeal. Quite how they will pay for it given their current financial position remains to be seen.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2025-02-03/historic-equal-pay-win-for-tens-of-thousands-of-asda-workers
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,911

    Luke Tryl omits to mention the elephant in the room.

    Trump 2.0 upending the world economic system makes predicting next GE even harder.

    If his madness actually works then maybe good for Reform and Farage.

    If it results in late 1920s depression then probably good for steady Starmer.

    I'd say the opposite. If the global economy does well despite Trump this helps Starmer (since the biggest factor affecting our growth is world growth).
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,604
    glw said:

    Taz said:

    Andrew Neil on savage form about the stupidity of Trumps tariffs.

    I get the impression this is a rare topic here as there’s near unanimity on the inherent stupidity of it.

    Blanket tariffs are perhaps only second to rent control on the list of things that almost all economists agree are a bad thing.
    Yup. Jeremy Corbyn and The Greens support rent controls. Says it all.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,117
    .

    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    maxh said:

    Can I defend Wetherspoon's please?

    As one of those unfortunate types (I know, I know, we're a rare breed on this forum) who definitely have to watch their pennies when going to the pub, the 'double breakfast' whereby one can order two whole Wetherspoon's breakfasts and not have to chop off one's own toenails for sale on the black market in recompense pleases me greatly.

    Easy to be sniffy at Spoons. Nothing wrong with it. The beer is decent and doesn't cost the earth. The food is fine for what it is.

    Plenty of remainers knock Spoons for no better reason than they don't like the owner.
    The young people love Spoons. Once my daughter turned 18 she practically lived at the Brockley Barge.
    There was I time I also frequented the Barge. Back then it was just about the only pub in the area where you didn’t get stared at when you walked in. Didn’t realise it is now a youth hang out though.

    And you are wrong on McDonald’s. It’s excellent. Knocks spots off KFC, BK, Morley’s, even Pizza Hut (to which I’m a bit partial). So much so that last weekend I bought some chuck steak, got it minced, and am going to do a snackmasters-style attempt with my daughter (who’s a big McD fan) to perfectly replicate a McDonald’s cheeseburger. Complete with tiny slivers of iceberg lettuce, microwaved (it works) tiny chopped onions, gherkin, the works.
    Pizza Hut?!
    Jabba’s brother.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,160

    Sleepy Joe is just a doddery, old fool.

    Dodgy Donald is a DANGEROUSLY UNHINGED doddery, old fool.

    It seems he's sacking all the prosecutors involved in the cases against him and the January 6th traitors. Shades of hitler's antics of the 30s.

    I used to think that it was exaggeration when Zuckerberg was threatened with Gaol. Not sure now.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,117
    Canada and Denmark share a 1.2 km long land border on Hans Island since we ended the Whisky War in 2022.
    So technically we could join the European Union.

    https://x.com/CraigBaird/status/1886136938564030793
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,775
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Trump is a huge Anglophile - his golf course etc

    Musk is on record as identifying himself as “English” - not South African or American. He deems himself as ethnically English

    Vance is an old English surname

    We have here the most pro-British presidency in many decades. We should exploit it and bring their revolution home

    total bollox, nobody can deal with a llying madman.
    If Trump is such a massive Anglophile why did he buy golf courses in Scotland?
    Saves the English from having him and his rsole family around I suppose.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,587
    Would be ironic if Starmer gets brought down over this.

    https://x.com/mrharrycole/status/1886458600178036793

    SIR Keir Starmer beat a hasty retreat from questions over claims his voice coach broke the law to train him during lockdown.

    Confronted by The Sun in Brussels, the PM said "of course not" when asked if he had broken the rules but quickly exited a NATO press conference to avoid further scrutiny.

    He muttered "all the rules were followed" as he made for the door amid a barrage of questions from journalists.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,342

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    maxh said:

    Can I defend Wetherspoon's please?

    As one of those unfortunate types (I know, I know, we're a rare breed on this forum) who definitely have to watch their pennies when going to the pub, the 'double breakfast' whereby one can order two whole Wetherspoon's breakfasts and not have to chop off one's own toenails for sale on the black market in recompense pleases me greatly.

    Wetherspoons is the McDonald’s of pubs. It’s not brilliant, but you know it’s going to be okay and you’ll get good value for money.

    In pretty much any town, the cheapest pub is always going to be a focus for those who society has mostly left behind.
    In a beer desert, such as many towns in the West of Scotland, spoons is the only place that sells a decent pint.
    I assume the beer desert extends to the far Northwest. I’m off on my long weekend to Assynt in a few days. Shall stock up on drinks at the supermarket in Inverness rather than relying on the pubs of Lochinver.
    AFAIK the nearest real ale to Lochinver is the Inchnanamph Hotel. You may wish to check this link. https://camra.org.uk/pubs
    If you’re buying beer in Inverness, I recommend Cromarty.
    Famous to anyone with an interest in geology and scenery!

    https://www.geolsoc.org.uk/Geoscientist/Archive/January-2007/Peach-and-Horne-the-memoir-at-100
    Assynt rocks!
    That's pretty much the thrust of the matter.
    That is clearly your opinion and it would also be Moine. ;)
    That’s a gneiss comment.
    Sedimentary my dear Watson.*

    *I know it's probably not sedimentary. #geologydunce
    Don’t worry. I met a more phic poster on here earlier.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,980
    Leon said:

    The irony here is that Trump is clearly the most Anglophile POTUS since Reagan, at least

    Waiting for a beneficial trade deal?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,911
    edited February 3

    On topic observation:

    Reform will not break the glass ceiling and achieve wider popularity as long as Farage is still a possible future PM. Indeed I would suggest this is the Reform conundrum. They need Farage to get to 25% plus but he actively stops them getting past 35% plus.

    That's good as well as on topic. Hadn't thought of it that way but yes could be right. He has both brand and baggage. So he gets them into the box but at the same time stops them from scoring.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,816
    IanB2 said:

    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    maxh said:

    Can I defend Wetherspoon's please?

    As one of those unfortunate types (I know, I know, we're a rare breed on this forum) who definitely have to watch their pennies when going to the pub, the 'double breakfast' whereby one can order two whole Wetherspoon's breakfasts and not have to chop off one's own toenails for sale on the black market in recompense pleases me greatly.

    Easy to be sniffy at Spoons. Nothing wrong with it. The beer is decent and doesn't cost the earth. The food is fine for what it is.

    Plenty of remainers knock Spoons for no better reason than they don't like the owner.
    The young people love Spoons. Once my daughter turned 18 she practically lived at the Brockley Barge.
    There was I time I also frequented the Barge. Back then it was just about the only pub in the area where you didn’t get stared at when you walked in. Didn’t realise it is now a youth hang out though.

    And you are wrong on McDonald’s. It’s excellent. Knocks spots off KFC, BK, Morley’s, even Pizza Hut (to which I’m a bit partial). So much so that last weekend I bought some chuck steak, got it minced, and am going to do a snackmasters-style attempt with my daughter (who’s a big McD fan) to perfectly replicate a McDonald’s cheeseburger. Complete with tiny slivers of iceberg lettuce, microwaved (it works) tiny chopped onions, gherkin, the works.
    How do you plan to make the bun all soggy?
    How do you recreate the pervasive smell of horse manure with a hint of vomit?
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,123
    I'm a Euro Federalist and I go to Spoons. So there!
This discussion has been closed.