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If today you’re confidently predicting the next general election result… – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,318
edited February 18 in General
If today you’re confidently predicting the next general election result… – politicalbetting.com

?Trying to predict the next General Election is a fools game – in the last Parliament the Tories ranged as high as 55% as low as 18%, with the electorate so volatile and the parties so split it's not impossible to imagine any of Starmer, Badenoch or Farage as PM come 2029.

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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,994
    edited February 3
    Can you spot on that first graph when Liz Truss became PM?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999
    A missed opportunity! Where was that Farage photo we were promised?
  • FPT
    HYUFD said:

    I see the MAGA crowd want to stop money going to Ukraine and use it to ameliorate the impact of tariffs.

    Putin must be so happy.

    Though Trump has told Putin he will also impose high tariffs on Russian imports and further sanctions on Russian funds unless Putin ends the war in Ukraine

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjw4q7v7ez1o
    I am also going to impose sanctions on Margot Robbie if she asks me out on a date.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,350

    Can you spot on that first graph when Liz Truss become PM?

    Well, if she hadn't murdered our beloved Queen...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,887
    edited February 3

    I was just in a local shop after my swim, and a very young boy in a pushchair was drinking a can of Red Bull. The mother said something like: "Shut up and drink your Red Bull." I reckon the kid was three or four.

    My flabber was well and truly ghasted.

    I was recently had to endure one of those peasant wagons and it appeared that this was the defacto standard drink of choice for mothers to give to their young kids. Not sure what will be worse the caffeine high or the caffeine crash.....

    Three or four years of age obviously too young for vaping, they get their first one when they turn five.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,068
    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.
  • Ooh I bagsied a first.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,887
    edited February 3
    All leading politicians are so unpopular perhaps Count BinFace or (original)* Monster Raving Loony party stands a chance....

    * not the newbie Reform lot.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,632
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,887
    edited February 3
    Andy_JS said:
    Does that count as eating food though?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,073
    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
  • agingjb2agingjb2 Posts: 118
    Not hard to think of several names, other than Starmer, Badenoch, Farage, who, if not ideal, would be plausible PMs - just about (many not MPs at present).

    So - None of the Above.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,099
    Andy_JS said:
    Good to see we've moved on the the height of the cost of living crisis, when the question was: "Can you still afford to eat owt?"

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999
    ...
    Andy_JS said:
    Spectator hacks only dine free at Wheelers or Bentleys. They would rather starve than rough it in Spoons.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,922

    I was just in a local shop after my swim, and a very young boy in a pushchair was drinking a can of Red Bull. The mother said something like: "Shut up and drink your Red Bull." I reckon the kid was three or four.

    My flabber was well and truly ghasted.

    I was recently had to endure one of those peasant wagons and it appeared that this was the defacto standard drink of choice for mothers to give to their young kids. Not sure what will be worse the caffeine high or the caffeine crash.....

    Three or four years of age obviously too young for vaping, they get their first one when they turn five.
    I recall when my ex's youngest found the Red Bull. She drank several. She was a hyperactive child (literally) with a development disorder.

    The ensuing couple of hours was entertaining, in kind of "This must never happen again" kind of way. Fortunately the child was fine - just crashed out and had big nap in the end.

    My ex made sure no Red Bull ever entered the house again.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,423

    Ooh I bagsied a first.

    Insider trading.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,068

    I was just in a local shop after my swim, and a very young boy in a pushchair was drinking a can of Red Bull. The mother said something like: "Shut up and drink your Red Bull." I reckon the kid was three or four.

    My flabber was well and truly ghasted.

    I was recently had to endure one of those peasant wagons and it appeared that this was the defacto standard drink of choice for mothers to give to their young kids. Not sure what will be worse the caffeine high or the caffeine crash.....

    Three or four years of age obviously too young for vaping, they get their first one when they turn five.
    I recall when my ex's youngest found the Red Bull. She drank several. She was a hyperactive child (literally) with a development disorder.

    The ensuing couple of hours was entertaining, in kind of "This must never happen again" kind of way. Fortunately the child was fine - just crashed out and had big nap in the end.

    My ex made sure no Red Bull ever entered the house again.
    I tasted it once.
    And poured the rest of the can down the drain.
  • Andy_JS said:
    Does that count as eating food though?
    I once ate at a Wetherspoons, in 2018, near Durham railway station.

    I haven't been that scared since I visited Baghdad in 2004.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999
    Nigelb said:

    I was just in a local shop after my swim, and a very young boy in a pushchair was drinking a can of Red Bull. The mother said something like: "Shut up and drink your Red Bull." I reckon the kid was three or four.

    My flabber was well and truly ghasted.

    I was recently had to endure one of those peasant wagons and it appeared that this was the defacto standard drink of choice for mothers to give to their young kids. Not sure what will be worse the caffeine high or the caffeine crash.....

    Three or four years of age obviously too young for vaping, they get their first one when they turn five.
    I recall when my ex's youngest found the Red Bull. She drank several. She was a hyperactive child (literally) with a development disorder.

    The ensuing couple of hours was entertaining, in kind of "This must never happen again" kind of way. Fortunately the child was fine - just crashed out and had big nap in the end.

    My ex made sure no Red Bull ever entered the house again.
    I tasted it once.
    And poured the rest of the can down the drain.
    No more blocked drains then...
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,977
    Reform lead with Leavers. But surely this is a diminishing part of the electorate.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,922
    Selebian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Good to see we've moved on the the height of the cost of living crisis, when the question was: "Can you still afford to eat owt?"

    I see a genuine change out there. The younger people at the rowing club don't go to the pub casually. It's a planned event, that costs them money they miss. I'm talking about young professionals. They try and avoid eating in the pub - not because the food is bad, but because 15 quid is a massive chunk out of their budgets.

    They don't even think about the restaurants along the river.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,887
    edited February 3

    Andy_JS said:
    Does that count as eating food though?
    I once ate at a Wetherspoons, in 2018, near Durham railway station.

    I haven't been that scared since I visited Baghdad in 2004.
    To be fair, 15 years ago, it wasn't that bad. Reasonably priced microwaved fare, but that is pretty standard at loads of those popular chain restaurants of the 2010s (none of which were any good and charged even more money). The sunday lunch they did were pass-able, but they cut that quite a while ago now as clearly it was too expensive for their rock bottom price business model.

    The bigger issue with Wetherspoons has always been the clientele it attracts. Often it appears a day centre for those with a range of issues.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,937
    If you could pick anyone to be PM who would it be, constraints are they have to be alive eligible and they cannot be a leader of a political party.

    I would like to see what would happen at a Mick Lynch / Trump summit.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,121

    Selebian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Good to see we've moved on the the height of the cost of living crisis, when the question was: "Can you still afford to eat owt?"

    I see a genuine change out there. The younger people at the rowing club don't go to the pub casually. It's a planned event, that costs them money they miss. I'm talking about young professionals. They try and avoid eating in the pub - not because the food is bad, but because 15 quid is a massive chunk out of their budgets.

    They don't even think about the restaurants along the river.
    Yep - I know how lucky I am that I can dine out wherever I want - none of my local friends can do the same.

    The ones I see in London are my age so have the similar amount of spare cash to be able to eat out when they want to.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,887
    edited February 3

    Selebian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Good to see we've moved on the the height of the cost of living crisis, when the question was: "Can you still afford to eat owt?"

    I see a genuine change out there. The younger people at the rowing club don't go to the pub casually. It's a planned event, that costs them money they miss. I'm talking about young professionals. They try and avoid eating in the pub - not because the food is bad, but because 15 quid is a massive chunk out of their budgets.

    They don't even think about the restaurants along the river.
    I don't think its just younger people. I certainly don't go for a pub lunch anywhere near as often as I used to. Went on Christmas Eve to meets some friends and was north of £150 bill for 4 of us (and this wasn't in the SE)...that isn't sustainable for most people as a regular activity.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,776
    Of course Reform might not win the next election. Not sure I find this list of 'what ifs' terribly convincing though. Especially the bits about Badenoch and/or Labour thundering back to popularity. Really? What would cause that, the possibility of a third Heathrow runway appearing years after they leave office? And how is Badenoch going to relaunch her leadership ‐ she's not doing anything! No policies, few interviews, few speeches, no live events. By contrast Reform are everywhere.

    Still, at least it's not ‐ 'Nigel's ego won't let him share the limelight with anyone; Reform will break apart in a matter of weeks'.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999

    Andy_JS said:
    Does that count as eating food though?
    I once ate at a Wetherspoons, in 2018, near Durham railway station.

    I haven't been that scared since I visited Baghdad in 2004.
    There is a Spoons by the bus station in Bridgend. Years ago I would pass it having parked my car in Tesco Brewery Field car park on my way to the NatWest bank for 9.30. The Giro earners were already lining their lagers up for their morning session.

    Tim Spoons is the unacceptable face of Capitalism.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,994
    edited February 3

    Andy_JS said:
    Does that count as eating food though?
    I once ate at a Wetherspoons, in 2018, near Durham railway station.

    I haven't been that scared since I visited Baghdad in 2004.
    To be fair, 15 years ago, it wasn't that bad. Reasonably priced microwaved fare, but that is pretty standard at loads of those popular chain restaurants of the 2010s (none of which were any good and charged even more money). The sunday lunch they did were pass-able, but they cut that quite a while ago now as clearly it was too expensive for their rock bottom price business model.

    The bigger issue with Wetherspoons has always been the clientele it attracts. Often it appears a day centre for those with a range of issues.
    The one in Piccadilly Gardens, Manchester, their clientele often go there before their appearance in court a few minutes away by foot.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,209
    I'm making no predictions. However, I do wonder whether Mr Farage is more helped by name recognition or hindered by not being a fresh face.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,887

    Andy_JS said:
    Does that count as eating food though?
    I once ate at a Wetherspoons, in 2018, near Durham railway station.

    I haven't been that scared since I visited Baghdad in 2004.
    To be fair, 15 years ago, it wasn't that bad. Reasonably priced microwaved fare, but that is pretty standard at loads of those popular chain restaurants of the 2010s (none of which were any good and charged even more money). The sunday lunch they did were pass-able, but they cut that quite a while ago now as clearly it was too expensive for their rock bottom price business model.

    The bigger issue with Wetherspoons has always been the clientele it attracts. Often it appears a day centre for those with a range of issues.
    The one in Piccadilly Gardens, Manchester, their clientele often go there before their appearance in court a few minutes away by foot.
    TBH, I feel most sorry for the staff. They will have to deal will a lot of difficult individuals and not just at 11pm on Friday / Saturday night.
  • eek said:

    Selebian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Good to see we've moved on the the height of the cost of living crisis, when the question was: "Can you still afford to eat owt?"

    I see a genuine change out there. The younger people at the rowing club don't go to the pub casually. It's a planned event, that costs them money they miss. I'm talking about young professionals. They try and avoid eating in the pub - not because the food is bad, but because 15 quid is a massive chunk out of their budgets.

    They don't even think about the restaurants along the river.
    Yep - I know how lucky I am that I can dine out wherever I want - none of my local friends can do the same.

    The ones I see in London are my age so have the similar amount of spare cash to be able to eat out when they want to.
    The one thing that really puts off my (younger) friends is the service charge which is written in really small font on the menu.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,870

    Selebian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Good to see we've moved on the the height of the cost of living crisis, when the question was: "Can you still afford to eat owt?"

    I see a genuine change out there. The younger people at the rowing club don't go to the pub casually. It's a planned event, that costs them money they miss. I'm talking about young professionals. They try and avoid eating in the pub - not because the food is bad, but because 15 quid is a massive chunk out of their budgets.

    They don't even think about the restaurants along the river.
    I have a friend who is a trainee barrister.
    Late 20s. Can’t afford to eat out regularly at all.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,722

    Of course Reform might not win the next election. Not sure I find this list of 'what ifs' terribly convincing though. Especially the bits about Badenoch and/or Labour thundering back to popularity. Really? What would cause that, the possibility of a third Heathrow runway appearing years after they leave office? And how is Badenoch going to relaunch her leadership ‐ she's not doing anything! No policies, few interviews, few speeches, no live events. By contrast Reform are everywhere.

    Still, at least it's not ‐ 'Nigel's ego won't let him share the limelight with anyone; Reform will break apart in a matter of weeks'.

    There are four more years to go, this is the equivalent of forecasting the last election around the time of the vaccines launch.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,937

    Andy_JS said:
    Does that count as eating food though?
    I once ate at a Wetherspoons, in 2018, near Durham railway station.

    I haven't been that scared since I visited Baghdad in 2004.
    To be fair, 15 years ago, it wasn't that bad. Reasonably priced microwaved fare, but that is pretty standard at loads of those popular chain restaurants of the 2010s (none of which were any good and charged even more money). The sunday lunch they did were pass-able, but they cut that quite a while ago now as clearly it was too expensive for their rock bottom price business model.

    The bigger issue with Wetherspoons has always been the clientele it attracts. Often it appears a day centre for those with a range of issues.
    The one in Piccadilly Gardens, Manchester, their clientele often go there before their appearance in court a few minutes away by foot.
    Barristers. Figures
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,887
    edited February 3

    eek said:

    Selebian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Good to see we've moved on the the height of the cost of living crisis, when the question was: "Can you still afford to eat owt?"

    I see a genuine change out there. The younger people at the rowing club don't go to the pub casually. It's a planned event, that costs them money they miss. I'm talking about young professionals. They try and avoid eating in the pub - not because the food is bad, but because 15 quid is a massive chunk out of their budgets.

    They don't even think about the restaurants along the river.
    Yep - I know how lucky I am that I can dine out wherever I want - none of my local friends can do the same.

    The ones I see in London are my age so have the similar amount of spare cash to be able to eat out when they want to.
    The one thing that really puts off my (younger) friends is the service charge which is written in really small font on the menu.
    If Starmer wants a boost in his popularity rating, outlawing this creeping Americanisation would be an easy win. I am off to Trumpistan shortly and am not looking forward to the constant 20-25% service charge on every bloody thing.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,776
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
    Not for the first time, we appear to be positioned rather well due to Brexit.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,555
    edited February 3
    Yes at the moment while Labour will lose seats to Reform and the Tories on current polls, the Tories will gain barely any seats they lost to the LDs last year. So the most likely result is a Labour minority government propped up by the LDs unless Reform can increase its voteshare further or the Tories make inroads into the LD vote (and at present the Tories are only tied with the LDs with Remainers).

    Interestingly on the who would make the best PM poll ratings translated to voteshares and seats you would get Reform 245 MPs, Labour 210, LDs 85, SNP 33 and Tories just 13. So likely Reform most seats but a Labour led government still supported by the LDs and SNP (though Badenoch underperforms her party's voteshare by 12% compared to 4% for Starmer and just 2% for Farage)

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=N&CON=12&LAB=21&LIB=12&Reform=23&Green=7&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTReform=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2024
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,088

    Andy_JS said:
    Does that count as eating food though?
    I once ate at a Wetherspoons, in 2018, near Durham railway station.

    I haven't been that scared since I visited Baghdad in 2004.
    To be fair, 15 years ago, it wasn't that bad. Reasonably priced microwaved fare, but that is pretty standard at loads of those popular chain restaurants of the 2010s (none of which were any good and charged even more money). The sunday lunch they did were pass-able, but they cut that quite a while ago now as clearly it was too expensive for their rock bottom price business model.

    The bigger issue with Wetherspoons has always been the clientele it attracts. Often it appears a day centre for those with a range of issues.
    The one in Piccadilly Gardens, Manchester, their clientele often go there before their appearance in court a few minutes away by foot.
    TBH, I feel most sorry for the staff. They will have to deal will a lot of difficult individuals and not just at 11pm on Friday / Saturday night.
    Walked past the local Trowbridge Wetherspoons at 11 am last weekend and was shocked to see the drinking had long since started.

    Whatever happened to the yard-arm?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,088

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
    Not for the first time, we appear to be positioned rather well due to Brexit.
    Don't forget that Brexit is a failure, as I keep seeing on this forum. No one defines what that failure is, mind.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,922

    Selebian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Good to see we've moved on the the height of the cost of living crisis, when the question was: "Can you still afford to eat owt?"

    I see a genuine change out there. The younger people at the rowing club don't go to the pub casually. It's a planned event, that costs them money they miss. I'm talking about young professionals. They try and avoid eating in the pub - not because the food is bad, but because 15 quid is a massive chunk out of their budgets.

    They don't even think about the restaurants along the river.
    I have a friend who is a trainee barrister.
    Late 20s. Can’t afford to eat out regularly at all.
    I've noticed a quiet conspiracy among the better off in the group to buy the snacks, and get more rounds in than they should. We never said anything to each other, but it is pretty plain.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,633
    @jessehawken

    The thing that sucks the most about this trade dispute is that it validates what Lucas was saying in THE PHANTOM MENACE
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,263
    @Cyclefree I agree with you on just about everything but your opposition to the assisted dying thing perplexes me somewhat.

    Does your objection involve a nugget of religiosity I wonder?

    As a liberal, I would have expected us to agree on this just as we do on other things - that someone with less than six months to live, with no quality of life, no wish to go on, and with possible suffering ahead of them should be able to opt (or the person's attorneys opt) to die when they want.

    If your objections are technical, then I agree this is a problem and I agree that a bad bill is not better than no bill _ and would prefer more thought and a better bill instead - but you seem against it on principle, which surprises me.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999

    Andy_JS said:
    Does that count as eating food though?
    I once ate at a Wetherspoons, in 2018, near Durham railway station.

    I haven't been that scared since I visited Baghdad in 2004.
    To be fair, 15 years ago, it wasn't that bad. Reasonably priced microwaved fare, but that is pretty standard at loads of those popular chain restaurants of the 2010s (none of which were any good and charged even more money). The sunday lunch they did were pass-able, but they cut that quite a while ago now as clearly it was too expensive for their rock bottom price business model.

    The bigger issue with Wetherspoons has always been the clientele it attracts. Often it appears a day centre for those with a range of issues.
    The one in Piccadilly Gardens, Manchester, their clientele often go there before their appearance in court a few minutes away by foot.
    I suppose if one is anticipating a 2 year stretch for GBH, sinking five pints for elevensies is a sensible precaution.
  • Andy_JS said:
    Does that count as eating food though?
    I once ate at a Wetherspoons, in 2018, near Durham railway station.

    I haven't been that scared since I visited Baghdad in 2004.
    To be fair, 15 years ago, it wasn't that bad. Reasonably priced microwaved fare, but that is pretty standard at loads of those popular chain restaurants of the 2010s (none of which were any good and charged even more money). The sunday lunch they did were pass-able, but they cut that quite a while ago now as clearly it was too expensive for their rock bottom price business model.

    The bigger issue with Wetherspoons has always been the clientele it attracts. Often it appears a day centre for those with a range of issues.
    The one in Piccadilly Gardens, Manchester, their clientele often go there before their appearance in court a few minutes away by foot.
    TBH, I feel most sorry for the staff. They will have to deal will a lot of difficult individuals and not just at 11pm on Friday / Saturday night.
    Not just them, I know somebody who worked by the Zizzis next door, she said it was a rare day when there weren't fights next door, and if they were really lucky, customers thrown out of Wetherspoons would visit Zizzis.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,936

    Selebian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Good to see we've moved on the the height of the cost of living crisis, when the question was: "Can you still afford to eat owt?"

    I see a genuine change out there. The younger people at the rowing club don't go to the pub casually. It's a planned event, that costs them money they miss. I'm talking about young professionals. They try and avoid eating in the pub - not because the food is bad, but because 15 quid is a massive chunk out of their budgets.

    They don't even think about the restaurants along the river.
    I have a friend who is a trainee barrister.
    Late 20s. Can’t afford to eat out regularly at all.
    How much of that is down to their rent/mortgage taking every spare penny they have?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,742

    Selebian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Good to see we've moved on the the height of the cost of living crisis, when the question was: "Can you still afford to eat owt?"

    I see a genuine change out there. The younger people at the rowing club don't go to the pub casually. It's a planned event, that costs them money they miss. I'm talking about young professionals. They try and avoid eating in the pub - not because the food is bad, but because 15 quid is a massive chunk out of their budgets.

    They don't even think about the restaurants along the river.
    I have a friend who is a trainee barrister.
    Late 20s. Can’t afford to eat out regularly at all.
    I've noticed a quiet conspiracy among the better off in the group to buy the snacks, and get more rounds in than they should. We never said anything to each other, but it is pretty plain.
    I had a walk round Malmesbury at the weekend. Quite enjoyed it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,632
    Chat GPT's factual information hasn't been improved. My question was how many votes did George HW Bush receive at the 1988 US presidential election in DC.

    "In the 1988 U.S. presidential election, George H.W. Bush received 47,728 votes in the District of Columbia (DC), which amounted to approximately 71% of the total votes cast in DC. His Democratic opponent, Michael Dukakis, received 19,208 votes, or around 29% of the vote in the district.

    Bush’s strong performance in DC was part of his broader victory in the election, where he won the presidency by a wide margin."
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,372
    edited February 3
    Latest DM and DT story: SNP want to ban cats.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24905239.snp-really-considering-banning-cats-scotland/?ref=ebbn&nid=1457&u=f140ec39d500193051a33e140c12bd95&date=030225

    Somewhat verisimilitude-challenged. IN fact totally so.

    Ironically, though, I can think of at least one PB arch-Unionist who would thoroughly approve.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,887
    edited February 3
    Andy_JS said:

    Chat GPT's factual information hasn't been improved. My question was how many votes did George HW Bush receive at the 1988 US presidential election in DC.

    "In the 1988 U.S. presidential election, George H.W. Bush received 47,728 votes in the District of Columbia (DC), which amounted to approximately 71% of the total votes cast in DC. His Democratic opponent, Michael Dukakis, received 19,208 votes, or around 29% of the vote in the district.

    Bush’s strong performance in DC was part of his broader victory in the election, where he won the presidency by a wide margin."

    Is that the same answer that it gave using previous models or is it spewing out random numbers each time? They have definitely had issues in the past relying far too much on nonsense posted on reddit which contaminated the datasets to the extent it assigned a whole special token to a username made of random numbers / letters.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,870

    Selebian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Good to see we've moved on the the height of the cost of living crisis, when the question was: "Can you still afford to eat owt?"

    I see a genuine change out there. The younger people at the rowing club don't go to the pub casually. It's a planned event, that costs them money they miss. I'm talking about young professionals. They try and avoid eating in the pub - not because the food is bad, but because 15 quid is a massive chunk out of their budgets.

    They don't even think about the restaurants along the river.
    I have a friend who is a trainee barrister.
    Late 20s. Can’t afford to eat out regularly at all.
    How much of that is down to their rent/mortgage taking every spare penny they have?
    I looked at the budget to try to help.
    Primarily it is rent (for lodging in SE London, hardly glamorous), secondarily it is the cost of barrister exam fees which it seems the chambers in question doesn’t cover.
  • eek said:

    Selebian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Good to see we've moved on the the height of the cost of living crisis, when the question was: "Can you still afford to eat owt?"

    I see a genuine change out there. The younger people at the rowing club don't go to the pub casually. It's a planned event, that costs them money they miss. I'm talking about young professionals. They try and avoid eating in the pub - not because the food is bad, but because 15 quid is a massive chunk out of their budgets.

    They don't even think about the restaurants along the river.
    Yep - I know how lucky I am that I can dine out wherever I want - none of my local friends can do the same.

    The ones I see in London are my age so have the similar amount of spare cash to be able to eat out when they want to.
    The one thing that really puts off my (younger) friends is the service charge which is written in really small font on the menu.
    If Starmer wants a boost in his popularity rating, outlawing this creeping Americanisation would be an easy win. I am off to Trumpistan shortly and am not looking forward to the constant 20-25% service charge on every bloody thing.
    Indeed, last year I had a fun experience at Covent Garden restaurant, the food was lovely but the service was terrible, you'd ask for things three or four times before they arrived, sometimes twenty minutes after you asked.

    I thought about not paying the service charge but then thought I'm going to look like a real shit if I don't pay the 15% service charge.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,372
    edited February 3

    Andy_JS said:
    Does that count as eating food though?
    I once ate at a Wetherspoons, in 2018, near Durham railway station.

    I haven't been that scared since I visited Baghdad in 2004.
    To be fair, 15 years ago, it wasn't that bad. Reasonably priced microwaved fare, but that is pretty standard at loads of those popular chain restaurants of the 2010s (none of which were any good and charged even more money). The sunday lunch they did were pass-able, but they cut that quite a while ago now as clearly it was too expensive for their rock bottom price business model.

    The bigger issue with Wetherspoons has always been the clientele it attracts. Often it appears a day centre for those with a range of issues.
    The one in Piccadilly Gardens, Manchester, their clientele often go there before their appearance in court a few minutes away by foot.
    TBH, I feel most sorry for the staff. They will have to deal will a lot of difficult individuals and not just at 11pm on Friday / Saturday night.
    Walked past the local Trowbridge Wetherspoons at 11 am last weekend and was shocked to see the drinking had long since started.

    Whatever happened to the yard-arm?
    The sun over the yard-arm metric was only for the wardroom (who were on the quarterdeck - think about it). Lets the rest of them off.

    Mind, I have no idea how many of the Spoons clientele are ex-officers.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,870

    eek said:

    Selebian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Good to see we've moved on the the height of the cost of living crisis, when the question was: "Can you still afford to eat owt?"

    I see a genuine change out there. The younger people at the rowing club don't go to the pub casually. It's a planned event, that costs them money they miss. I'm talking about young professionals. They try and avoid eating in the pub - not because the food is bad, but because 15 quid is a massive chunk out of their budgets.

    They don't even think about the restaurants along the river.
    Yep - I know how lucky I am that I can dine out wherever I want - none of my local friends can do the same.

    The ones I see in London are my age so have the similar amount of spare cash to be able to eat out when they want to.
    The one thing that really puts off my (younger) friends is the service charge which is written in really small font on the menu.
    If Starmer wants a boost in his popularity rating, outlawing this creeping Americanisation would be an easy win. I am off to Trumpistan shortly and am not looking forward to the constant 20-25% service charge on every bloody thing.
    Indeed, last year I had a fun experience at Covent Garden restaurant, the food was lovely but the service was terrible, you'd ask for things three or four times before they arrived, sometimes twenty minutes after you asked.

    I thought about not paying the service charge but then thought I'm going to look like a real shit if I don't pay the 15% service charge.
    Service in the U.S. is usually pretty good.

    But how much is that tips, how much is that better management, and how much is that a culture which doesn’t look down on “service”?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,887
    edited February 3

    eek said:

    Selebian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Good to see we've moved on the the height of the cost of living crisis, when the question was: "Can you still afford to eat owt?"

    I see a genuine change out there. The younger people at the rowing club don't go to the pub casually. It's a planned event, that costs them money they miss. I'm talking about young professionals. They try and avoid eating in the pub - not because the food is bad, but because 15 quid is a massive chunk out of their budgets.

    They don't even think about the restaurants along the river.
    Yep - I know how lucky I am that I can dine out wherever I want - none of my local friends can do the same.

    The ones I see in London are my age so have the similar amount of spare cash to be able to eat out when they want to.
    The one thing that really puts off my (younger) friends is the service charge which is written in really small font on the menu.
    If Starmer wants a boost in his popularity rating, outlawing this creeping Americanisation would be an easy win. I am off to Trumpistan shortly and am not looking forward to the constant 20-25% service charge on every bloody thing.
    Indeed, last year I had a fun experience at Covent Garden restaurant, the food was lovely but the service was terrible, you'd ask for things three or four times before they arrived, sometimes twenty minutes after you asked.

    I thought about not paying the service charge but then thought I'm going to look like a real shit if I don't pay the 15% service charge.
    Service in the U.S. is usually pretty good.

    But how much is that tips, how much is that better management, and how much is that a culture which doesn’t look down on “service”?
    Try not tipping and see how good the service is next time....although if you aren't American some give you a free pass that you don't understand the quid pro quo, perhaps will a not so subtle lesson about how how it works.

    Not tipping per drink normally will result in you standing at a bar like Billie No Mates for a very long time.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,937

    eek said:

    Selebian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Good to see we've moved on the the height of the cost of living crisis, when the question was: "Can you still afford to eat owt?"

    I see a genuine change out there. The younger people at the rowing club don't go to the pub casually. It's a planned event, that costs them money they miss. I'm talking about young professionals. They try and avoid eating in the pub - not because the food is bad, but because 15 quid is a massive chunk out of their budgets.

    They don't even think about the restaurants along the river.
    Yep - I know how lucky I am that I can dine out wherever I want - none of my local friends can do the same.

    The ones I see in London are my age so have the similar amount of spare cash to be able to eat out when they want to.
    The one thing that really puts off my (younger) friends is the service charge which is written in really small font on the menu.
    If Starmer wants a boost in his popularity rating, outlawing this creeping Americanisation would be an easy win. I am off to Trumpistan shortly and am not looking forward to the constant 20-25% service charge on every bloody thing.
    Indeed, last year I had a fun experience at Covent Garden restaurant, the food was lovely but the service was terrible, you'd ask for things three or four times before they arrived, sometimes twenty minutes after you asked.

    I thought about not paying the service charge but then thought I'm going to look like a real shit if I don't pay the 15% service charge.
    Service in the U.S. is usually pretty good.

    But how much is that tips, how much is that better management, and how much is that a culture which doesn’t look down on “service”?
    Try not tipping and see how good the service is next time....although if you aren't American some give you a free pass that you don't understand the quid pro quo.

    Not tipping per drink normally will result in you standing at a bar like Billie No Mates for a very long time.
    If it were a quid , pro quo it would be fine.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,121

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
    Not for the first time, we appear to be positioned rather well due to Brexit.
    I suspect we are not well positioned and will discover the truth a few months down the line when we discover we need to make a painful decision on what side we fall
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,887
    edited February 3
    Jonathan said:

    eek said:

    Selebian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Good to see we've moved on the the height of the cost of living crisis, when the question was: "Can you still afford to eat owt?"

    I see a genuine change out there. The younger people at the rowing club don't go to the pub casually. It's a planned event, that costs them money they miss. I'm talking about young professionals. They try and avoid eating in the pub - not because the food is bad, but because 15 quid is a massive chunk out of their budgets.

    They don't even think about the restaurants along the river.
    Yep - I know how lucky I am that I can dine out wherever I want - none of my local friends can do the same.

    The ones I see in London are my age so have the similar amount of spare cash to be able to eat out when they want to.
    The one thing that really puts off my (younger) friends is the service charge which is written in really small font on the menu.
    If Starmer wants a boost in his popularity rating, outlawing this creeping Americanisation would be an easy win. I am off to Trumpistan shortly and am not looking forward to the constant 20-25% service charge on every bloody thing.
    Indeed, last year I had a fun experience at Covent Garden restaurant, the food was lovely but the service was terrible, you'd ask for things three or four times before they arrived, sometimes twenty minutes after you asked.

    I thought about not paying the service charge but then thought I'm going to look like a real shit if I don't pay the 15% service charge.
    Service in the U.S. is usually pretty good.

    But how much is that tips, how much is that better management, and how much is that a culture which doesn’t look down on “service”?
    Try not tipping and see how good the service is next time....although if you aren't American some give you a free pass that you don't understand the quid pro quo.

    Not tipping per drink normally will result in you standing at a bar like Billie No Mates for a very long time.
    If it were a quid , pro quo it would be fine.
    That used to be the standard drink tip pre-COVID, but I haven't been to the US since. Mrs U has and told me to get ready for the shock, perhaps take something to calm yourself before entering any service based situation.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,121
    edited February 3

    Selebian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Good to see we've moved on the the height of the cost of living crisis, when the question was: "Can you still afford to eat owt?"

    I see a genuine change out there. The younger people at the rowing club don't go to the pub casually. It's a planned event, that costs them money they miss. I'm talking about young professionals. They try and avoid eating in the pub - not because the food is bad, but because 15 quid is a massive chunk out of their budgets.

    They don't even think about the restaurants along the river.
    I have a friend who is a trainee barrister.
    Late 20s. Can’t afford to eat out regularly at all.
    I've noticed a quiet conspiracy among the better off in the group to buy the snacks, and get more rounds in than they should. We never said anything to each other, but it is pretty plain.
    It’s the only way to do it - problem is I’m usually the only person with cash and the next most generous person really doesn’t have the cash to pay for a round.

    I can usually fix that by slipping them my credit card though - so it’s not completely obvious I’m subbing everyone and paying for 90% of the night out
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,887

    Selebian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Good to see we've moved on the the height of the cost of living crisis, when the question was: "Can you still afford to eat owt?"

    I see a genuine change out there. The younger people at the rowing club don't go to the pub casually. It's a planned event, that costs them money they miss. I'm talking about young professionals. They try and avoid eating in the pub - not because the food is bad, but because 15 quid is a massive chunk out of their budgets.

    They don't even think about the restaurants along the river.
    I have a friend who is a trainee barrister.
    Late 20s. Can’t afford to eat out regularly at all.
    How much of that is down to their rent/mortgage taking every spare penny they have?
    I looked at the budget to try to help.
    Primarily it is rent (for lodging in SE London, hardly glamorous), secondarily it is the cost of barrister exam fees which it seems the chambers in question doesn’t cover.
    That doesn't seem on. Isn't it standard practice with most other industries for the company to pay for at least your first go at professional qualifying exams.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,121
    edited February 3

    Selebian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Good to see we've moved on the the height of the cost of living crisis, when the question was: "Can you still afford to eat owt?"

    I see a genuine change out there. The younger people at the rowing club don't go to the pub casually. It's a planned event, that costs them money they miss. I'm talking about young professionals. They try and avoid eating in the pub - not because the food is bad, but because 15 quid is a massive chunk out of their budgets.

    They don't even think about the restaurants along the river.
    I have a friend who is a trainee barrister.
    Late 20s. Can’t afford to eat out regularly at all.
    How much of that is down to their rent/mortgage taking every spare penny they have?
    I looked at the budget to try to help.
    Primarily it is rent (for lodging in SE London, hardly glamorous), secondarily it is the cost of barrister exam fees which it seems the chambers in question doesn’t cover.
    That doesn't seem on. Isn't it standard practice with most other industries for the company to pay for at least your first go at professional qualifying exams.
    Mrs Eek is no longer a member of her professional organization because the council won’t pay her membership fee and she wasn’t going to.

    It just means that she refuses to do public inquiries and senior staff members need to find the time to present her work
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,152

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
    Not for the first time, we appear to be positioned rather well due to Brexit.
    Don't forget that Brexit is a failure, as I keep seeing on this forum. No one defines what that failure is, mind.
    Oh, I think the voters do:


  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,776

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
    Not for the first time, we appear to be positioned rather well due to Brexit.
    Don't forget that Brexit is a failure, as I keep seeing on this forum. No one defines what that failure is, mind.
    It is one of those 'settled PB views'.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,417
    The irony here is that Trump is clearly the most Anglophile POTUS since Reagan, at least
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,887
    edited February 3
    eek said:

    Selebian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Good to see we've moved on the the height of the cost of living crisis, when the question was: "Can you still afford to eat owt?"

    I see a genuine change out there. The younger people at the rowing club don't go to the pub casually. It's a planned event, that costs them money they miss. I'm talking about young professionals. They try and avoid eating in the pub - not because the food is bad, but because 15 quid is a massive chunk out of their budgets.

    They don't even think about the restaurants along the river.
    I have a friend who is a trainee barrister.
    Late 20s. Can’t afford to eat out regularly at all.
    How much of that is down to their rent/mortgage taking every spare penny they have?
    I looked at the budget to try to help.
    Primarily it is rent (for lodging in SE London, hardly glamorous), secondarily it is the cost of barrister exam fees which it seems the chambers in question doesn’t cover.
    That doesn't seem on. Isn't it standard practice with most other industries for the company to pay for at least your first go at professional qualifying exams.
    Mrs Eek is no longer a member of her professional organization because the council won’t pay her membership fee and she wasn’t going to.

    It just means that she refuses to do public inquiries and senior staff members need to find the time to present her work
    I don't know how common it is for a employer to pay for membership fees to professional bodies, but qualifying exams, most companies want their employees to have those bits of paper if for no other reason they can charge them out at higher rates as a qualified accountant, actuary, engineer, etc.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,633

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
    Not for the first time, we appear to be positioned rather well due to Brexit.
    Don't forget that Brexit is a failure, as I keep seeing on this forum. No one defines what that failure is, mind.
    @whatukthinks

    Latest @BMGResearch poll for @theipaper.
    #EURef2 vi: Join 45 (+1); Stay Out 37 (-3). Fwork 28-29.1.25 (ch since 26-27.11.24).
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,633
    Trump delays Mexico tariffs for a month
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,776
    eek said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
    Not for the first time, we appear to be positioned rather well due to Brexit.
    I suspect we are not well positioned and will discover the truth a few months down the line when we discover we need to make a painful decision on what side we fall
    Why would we do anything so stupid? Do you think the EU will put tariffs on us for not joining them in putting them on the US? As far as I know we still have have a trade deficit with the EU so they would stand to lose more than us if they did that.

    Or will the US put them on us for not putting them on the EU? Trade is about equal there, so they would stand to gain little.

    As I said, fortunately positioned for once, though of course Sir Useless could contrive to bugger it up.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,104

    Selebian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Good to see we've moved on the the height of the cost of living crisis, when the question was: "Can you still afford to eat owt?"

    I see a genuine change out there. The younger people at the rowing club don't go to the pub casually. It's a planned event, that costs them money they miss. I'm talking about young professionals. They try and avoid eating in the pub - not because the food is bad, but because 15 quid is a massive chunk out of their budgets.

    They don't even think about the restaurants along the river.
    I have a friend who is a trainee barrister.
    Late 20s. Can’t afford to eat out regularly at all.
    How much of that is down to their rent/mortgage taking every spare penny they have?
    I looked at the budget to try to help.
    Primarily it is rent (for lodging in SE London, hardly glamorous), secondarily it is the cost of barrister exam fees which it seems the chambers in question doesn’t cover.
    That doesn't seem on. Isn't it standard practice with most other industries for the company to pay for at least your first go at professional qualifying exams.
    The NHS never paid my Pharm. Soc. fees. Nor, when I first qualified, did the big multiple chemists I then worked for.
    Mind, I never asked.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,662
    edited February 3

    Of course Reform might not win the next election. Not sure I find this list of 'what ifs' terribly convincing though. Especially the bits about Badenoch and/or Labour thundering back to popularity. Really? What would cause that, the possibility of a third Heathrow runway appearing years after they leave office? And how is Badenoch going to relaunch her leadership ‐ she's not doing anything! No policies, few interviews, few speeches, no live events. By contrast Reform are everywhere.

    Still, at least it's not ‐ 'Nigel's ego won't let him share the limelight with anyone; Reform will break apart in a matter of weeks'.

    There's no doubt that Reform are on a roll, and Tories and Labour are unpopular currently. But if I were you/a Reform fan, I'd be pretty concerned that Farage is only favoured by 23% as the next PM. I know the other leaders are even lower, but to an extent not true of the leaders of the other main parties, Farage is Reform.

    If only 23% currently favour Farage as PM, when Reform are currently knocking it out of the park in public commentary, I'd suggest he's pretty unlikely to be the next PM.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,870

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
    Not for the first time, we appear to be positioned rather well due to Brexit.
    Don't forget that Brexit is a failure, as I keep seeing on this forum. No one defines what that failure is, mind.
    It is one of those 'settled PB views'.
    It’s the public’s settled view.
    Ironically, the three or four people who still haven’t twigged that Brexit was a failure seem to post regularly on here.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999

    eek said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
    Not for the first time, we appear to be positioned rather well due to Brexit.
    I suspect we are not well positioned and will discover the truth a few months down the line when we discover we need to make a painful decision on what side we fall
    Why would we do anything so stupid? Do you think the EU will put tariffs on us for not joining them in putting them on the US? As far as I know we still have have a trade deficit with the EU so they would stand to lose more than us if they did that.

    Or will the US put them on us for not putting them on the EU? Trade is about equal there, so they would stand to gain little.

    As I said, fortunately positioned for once, though of course Sir Useless could contrive to bugger it up.
    If only Truss were still PM.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,068

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
    Not for the first time, we appear to be positioned rather well due to Brexit.
    Don't forget that Brexit is a failure, as I keep seeing on this forum. No one defines what that failure is, mind.
    It is one of those 'settled PB views'.
    It’s the public’s settled view.
    Ironically, the three or four people who still haven’t twigged that Brexit was a failure seem to post regularly on here.
    Similarly to the settled view of the Truss premiership, it's still highly contested here.

    One thing rarely discussed is how the EU might have evolved differently, had we stayed in.
  • TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
    Not for the first time, we appear to be positioned rather well due to Brexit.
    Don't forget that Brexit is a failure, as I keep seeing on this forum. No one defines what that failure is, mind.
    It is one of those 'settled PB views'.
    It’s the public’s settled view.
    Ironically, the three or four people who still haven’t twigged that Brexit was a failure seem to post regularly on here.
    Quoting @Scott_P 37% want to stay out

    45/37 is actually surprisingly closer than one would expect
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,870
    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
    Not for the first time, we appear to be positioned rather well due to Brexit.
    Don't forget that Brexit is a failure, as I keep seeing on this forum. No one defines what that failure is, mind.
    It is one of those 'settled PB views'.
    It’s the public’s settled view.
    Ironically, the three or four people who still haven’t twigged that Brexit was a failure seem to post regularly on here.
    Similarly to the settled view of the Truss premiership, it's still highly contested here.

    One thing rarely discussed is how the EU might have evolved differently, had we stayed in.
    Yes, it’s a common fallacy to believe - for example - the EU’s AI rules would have turned out the same regardless of UK input.

    However, it’s boring to keep pointing this out.
    And one thing we’ve learned from Brexit is that peolle don’t really change their minds, even (or especially?) those who post to a political forum.
  • Leon said:

    The irony here is that Trump is clearly the most Anglophile POTUS since Reagan, at least

    Nah, both Bushes were strong Anglophiles.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
    Not for the first time, we appear to be positioned rather well due to Brexit.
    Don't forget that Brexit is a failure, as I keep seeing on this forum. No one defines what that failure is, mind.
    It is one of those 'settled PB views'.
    It’s the public’s settled view.
    Ironically, the three or four people who still haven’t twigged that Brexit was a failure seem to post regularly on here.
    Quoting @Scott_P 37% want to stay out

    45/37 is actually surprisingly closer than one would expect
    It's twice as emphatic than 52 plays 48.
  • Sky reporting Mexico has conceded everything that Trump wanted and it is a big win for Trump

    Skys words, not mine
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,423
    edited February 3
    On Tryl's boskies or whatever they are called,

    1) Yes, the next election can't be predicted
    2) Reform will have a ceiling if they remain wedded to Trump and other loonies in the public mind. Elections are won from the centre, and 2024 was no exception. Reform can shock the media conformists by explaining just how centrist they are. Like the Tories, the libertarian wing has to be placed firmly in a box
    3) The graph showing 'None' as favorite leader is terrible for all three, but much the least terrible for the bloke with 5 MPs and is in the lead
    4) At this moment no-one knows a route to repairing the Tory brand unless Kemi has a cunning and very secret plan
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    Well this is interesting. A joint UK and Danish project to repurpose cheap Soviet-era air-to-air missiles into ground-based air defences for Ukraine.

    Codename: Gravehawk.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m41VL0PSl7U

    Well done to all involved, yet another example of war fostering innovation.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,121

    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
    Not for the first time, we appear to be positioned rather well due to Brexit.
    Don't forget that Brexit is a failure, as I keep seeing on this forum. No one defines what that failure is, mind.
    It is one of those 'settled PB views'.
    It’s the public’s settled view.
    Ironically, the three or four people who still haven’t twigged that Brexit was a failure seem to post regularly on here.
    Similarly to the settled view of the Truss premiership, it's still highly contested here.

    One thing rarely discussed is how the EU might have evolved differently, had we stayed in.
    Yes, it’s a common fallacy to believe - for example - the EU’s AI rules would have turned out the same regardless of UK input.

    However, it’s boring to keep pointing this out.
    And one thing we’ve learned from Brexit is that peolle don’t really change their minds, even (or especially?) those who post to a political forum.
    Yes, given the insane announcement regarding AI from Yvette Cooper yesterday the rules could have been worse
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,088
    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
    Not for the first time, we appear to be positioned rather well due to Brexit.
    Don't forget that Brexit is a failure, as I keep seeing on this forum. No one defines what that failure is, mind.
    Oh, I think the voters do:


    The economic shock of covid and then the Ukraine war have dwarfed effects of Brexit, but most people tend to conflate how shit things have gone with the former.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,845

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
    Not for the first time, we appear to be positioned rather well due to Brexit.
    Don't forget that Brexit is a failure, as I keep seeing on this forum. No one defines what that failure is, mind.
    It is one of those 'settled PB views'.
    It’s the public’s settled view.
    Ironically, the three or four people who still haven’t twigged that Brexit was a failure seem to post regularly on here.
    Quoting @Scott_P 37% want to stay out

    45/37 is actually surprisingly closer than one would expect
    What angry fanatics like @Scott_P don't realise is that they'd clearly lose a Rejoin referendum too.

    Remain had much bigger leads over Leave than that before the original campaign started.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999

    Sky reporting Mexico has conceded everything that Trump wanted and it is a big win for Trump

    Skys words, not mine

    Colour me sceptical.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,088
    Scott_xP said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
    Not for the first time, we appear to be positioned rather well due to Brexit.
    Don't forget that Brexit is a failure, as I keep seeing on this forum. No one defines what that failure is, mind.
    @whatukthinks

    Latest @BMGResearch poll for @theipaper.
    #EURef2 vi: Join 45 (+1); Stay Out 37 (-3). Fwork 28-29.1.25 (ch since 26-27.11.24).
    Did they set out the terms of rejoin? I doubt it. Adopt the Euro, no rebate etc
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,845

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
    Not for the first time, we appear to be positioned rather well due to Brexit.
    Don't forget that Brexit is a failure, as I keep seeing on this forum. No one defines what that failure is, mind.
    It is one of those 'settled PB views'.
    It’s the public’s settled view.
    Ironically, the three or four people who still haven’t twigged that Brexit was a failure seem to post regularly on here.
    And, yet, there is very little appetite to reopen or reverse it.

    What you have to distinguish is those who think Brexit is a failure because it hasn't gone far enough, or the powers been taken advantage of enough, over those who think it was a fundamental mistake and should be reversed.

    That's the bit your side keeps missing.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,441
    edited February 3

    Sky reporting Mexico has conceded everything that Trump wanted and it is a big win for Trump

    Skys words, not mine

    Colour me sceptical.
    Watch it on Sky then
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,870
    edited February 3

    Selebian said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Good to see we've moved on the the height of the cost of living crisis, when the question was: "Can you still afford to eat owt?"

    I see a genuine change out there. The younger people at the rowing club don't go to the pub casually. It's a planned event, that costs them money they miss. I'm talking about young professionals. They try and avoid eating in the pub - not because the food is bad, but because 15 quid is a massive chunk out of their budgets.

    They don't even think about the restaurants along the river.
    I have a friend who is a trainee barrister.
    Late 20s. Can’t afford to eat out regularly at all.
    How much of that is down to their rent/mortgage taking every spare penny they have?
    I looked at the budget to try to help.
    Primarily it is rent (for lodging in SE London, hardly glamorous), secondarily it is the cost of barrister exam fees which it seems the chambers in question doesn’t cover.
    That doesn't seem on. Isn't it standard practice with most other industries for the company to pay for at least your first go at professional qualifying exams.
    Seems to be the practice (or non-practice) at that chambers.

    The other thing is that there’s a clear divide now between 20-somethings who have parental wealth behind them, and those who don’t.

    Said wealth is often merely an artefact of house price inflation circa 1990-2015.

    It breaks my heart, especially as I myself didn’t come from money (my father left school at 14 for example) and I just don’t know how I’d react were I to live my life again, knowing that I may never be able to afford those things that as a (very) late Gen Xer I’ve taken for granted.

    I often wonder whether I’d simply have opted out of a professional career altogether.
  • Terrible news that a 15 year old boy has died after a stabbing at a Sheffield school
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999
    edited February 3

    Scott_xP said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
    Not for the first time, we appear to be positioned rather well due to Brexit.
    Don't forget that Brexit is a failure, as I keep seeing on this forum. No one defines what that failure is, mind.
    @whatukthinks

    Latest @BMGResearch poll for @theipaper.
    #EURef2 vi: Join 45 (+1); Stay Out 37 (-3). Fwork 28-29.1.25 (ch since 26-27.11.24).
    Did they set out the terms of rejoin? I doubt it. Adopt the Euro, no rebate etc
    Sweden are Euro-free and it is you Leavers who binned the rebate by leaving. Any future rejoin agreement will be inferior to what we threw away. Thanks Leavers.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,554

    Scott_xP said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
    Not for the first time, we appear to be positioned rather well due to Brexit.
    Don't forget that Brexit is a failure, as I keep seeing on this forum. No one defines what that failure is, mind.
    @whatukthinks

    Latest @BMGResearch poll for @theipaper.
    #EURef2 vi: Join 45 (+1); Stay Out 37 (-3). Fwork 28-29.1.25 (ch since 26-27.11.24).
    Did they set out the terms of rejoin? I doubt it. Adopt the Euro, no rebate etc
    Sweden are Euro-free and it is you Leavers who binned the rebate by Leaving. Any future rejoin agreement will be inferior to what we threw away. Thanks Leavers.
    Having fewer opt outs is only inferior if you're sceptical about the EU project.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,870

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
    Not for the first time, we appear to be positioned rather well due to Brexit.
    Don't forget that Brexit is a failure, as I keep seeing on this forum. No one defines what that failure is, mind.
    It is one of those 'settled PB views'.
    It’s the public’s settled view.
    Ironically, the three or four people who still haven’t twigged that Brexit was a failure seem to post regularly on here.
    And, yet, there is very little appetite to reopen or reverse it.

    What you have to distinguish is those who think Brexit is a failure because it hasn't gone far enough, or the powers been taken advantage of enough, over those who think it was a fundamental mistake and should be reversed.

    That's the bit your side keeps missing.
    I personally don’t favour a re-entry.
    The juice is not worth ten years of squeeze right now.

    That’s distinct from Brexit, which has delivered ten years of squeeze with no juice whatsoever.

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,423
    Leon said:

    The irony here is that Trump is clearly the most Anglophile POTUS since Reagan, at least

    TBF it's possible that Starmer has spotted that. SFAICS the UK government is not in a major war, verbal or otherwise, with Trump so far, and we have had nearly a fortnight
  • eekeek Posts: 29,121
    It seems the reason why Elon Musk is so centered and closing down USAID is because of the roll USAID played in removing Apartheid in South Africa
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,263
    I see the pound is closing in on a five year high against the Euro - great news but not sure how much credit the government can take for this?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,554

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
    Not for the first time, we appear to be positioned rather well due to Brexit.
    Don't forget that Brexit is a failure, as I keep seeing on this forum. No one defines what that failure is, mind.
    It is one of those 'settled PB views'.
    It’s the public’s settled view.
    Ironically, the three or four people who still haven’t twigged that Brexit was a failure seem to post regularly on here.
    And, yet, there is very little appetite to reopen or reverse it.

    What you have to distinguish is those who think Brexit is a failure because it hasn't gone far enough, or the powers been taken advantage of enough, over those who think it was a fundamental mistake and should be reversed.

    That's the bit your side keeps missing.
    I personally don’t favour a re-entry.
    The juice is not worth ten years of squeeze right now.

    That’s distinct from Brexit, which has delivered ten years of squeeze with no juice whatsoever.
    Politics is the art of the possible, and if you compare our current situation with that of France or Germany, it's not obvious that not Brexiting would have given us dramatically better possibilities.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,870
    eek said:

    It seems the reason why Elon Musk is so centered and closing down USAID is because of the roll USAID played in removing Apartheid in South Africa

    Is that true though?
    Someone posted a tweet earlier but it appeared to have no causal evidence.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,845

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Until the little Transatlantic difficulty is sorted, I don't think any of this matters very much.

    It’s only going to get more dramatic over the next few weeks. Project 2025 is well and truly happening. And you’re right, rather like Covid or the financial crisis or Iraq war, how European governments respond to the nouse coming out of the US is going to dominate everything else for a while.
    Not for the first time, we appear to be positioned rather well due to Brexit.
    Don't forget that Brexit is a failure, as I keep seeing on this forum. No one defines what that failure is, mind.
    It is one of those 'settled PB views'.
    It’s the public’s settled view.
    Ironically, the three or four people who still haven’t twigged that Brexit was a failure seem to post regularly on here.
    And, yet, there is very little appetite to reopen or reverse it.

    What you have to distinguish is those who think Brexit is a failure because it hasn't gone far enough, or the powers been taken advantage of enough, over those who think it was a fundamental mistake and should be reversed.

    That's the bit your side keeps missing.
    I personally don’t favour a re-entry.
    The juice is not worth ten years of squeeze right now.

    That’s distinct from Brexit, which has delivered ten years of squeeze with no juice whatsoever.

    And, yet, it has. We have a more nimble foreign policy, we have different regulations on GM crops and on AI now, and this government has also taken advantage of some of the powers. We have a broader range of trade agreements. And our services exports to the EU are booming. Our domestic politics is no longer dominated by "ever closer union" federalism.

    There is no form of EU membership I'd favour. Consider people like me dormant, but we'd absolutely rise up to fight again should a rejoin movement ever get political traction.

    Not right for us then, not now, not ever.
This discussion has been closed.