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The government sinks to a new low yet still leads the Tories who remain in third place

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  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,987
    Parties of the Left: 55%
    Parties of the Right: 45%
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ooh, it’s not just old Soviet Hamas kit flying from Israel to Poland, 90 Patriot batteries on the way too.

    https://x.com/maks_nafo_fella/status/1884332534751977932

    An interceptor is 1 x PAC-2/3 missile not a whole battery. They are only about 40 batteries in the entire US arsenal.
    Whoops yes, the battery is the whole multi-vehicle $1bn system, rather than just the rockets.

    Still good news for Kiev and Kharkiv though.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,652

    TimS said:

    By and large the UK has a pretty effective and intelligent regulatory regime by international standards. Just ask any multinational investor: it’s relatively easy to start and run a business, hire and fire, raise capital, pay tax, restructure. We’re seen as one of the straightforward markets, without being the Wild West.

    The big area where we are recalcitrant and extremely difficult to navigate is the planning regime. Yes there are other aspects of regulation that should be looked at, but when it comes to regulation that strangles growth it’s planning planning planning.

    Does the electorate want development? I am not so sure
    To expand on this, ever been on a local community facebook group where there’s a post about planning permission? Hundreds of comments about any development being too big, inappropriate, too many people, “we are not a city”, “the council should build X instead”etc etc. These kind of comments are not usually from the Labour voting type but the Tory/Reform voting type.
    LD and Green voters also tend to be Nimby. Indeed LD led councils are more likely to block new developments than Tory led councils
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,708

    TimS said:

    By and large the UK has a pretty effective and intelligent regulatory regime by international standards. Just ask any multinational investor: it’s relatively easy to start and run a business, hire and fire, raise capital, pay tax, restructure. We’re seen as one of the straightforward markets, without being the Wild West.

    The big area where we are recalcitrant and extremely difficult to navigate is the planning regime. Yes there are other aspects of regulation that should be looked at, but when it comes to regulation that strangles growth it’s planning planning planning.

    Does the electorate want development? I am not so sure
    The electorate want a load of mutually incompatible things. Politicians pandering to them at the individual policy level rather than coming up with a coherent plan with a mix of popular and unpopular policies that put together make sense is why we are governed badly and politicians end up increasingly distrusted.

    Build, build, build, sod short term popularity.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,506

    IanB2 said:

    I am going to repost the link to that Atlantic article again, as it is well worth a read (if you can), and is tangentially relevant to this topic also.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/05/social-media-democracy-trust-babel

    In the contemporary political environment, it is hard to envisage what a government that does command majority approval would look like? Trump might be managing it for a short while through performative stunts, but when the hard work of governing begins….

    Got a page not found error.
    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    So how do Labour turn this around?

    There are ways - an appearance of competence would be a good start - but I'm unsure SKS or his team have it in them.

    Keir Starmer invokes Margaret Thatcher as he goes for growth

    We must ‘cure the sickness of stagnation and decline’ in Britain, the PM says while taking aim at ‘overreach’ by watchdogs


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/keir-starmer-invokes-margaret-thatcher-as-he-goes-for-growth-kvp2fhbmg
    yes, but he wont scrap them will he ? He'll make bleaty noises and then approve more laws and restrictions.
    PB Right: the government should go for growth and deregulate.

    Government: we should go for growth and deregulate.

    PB Right: don’t believe them.

    What is the point of this discourse? There is no analysis, no engagement, just blind opposition for the sake of it.
    Rather like Rishi Sunak thinking that all he needed to do was talk about stopping the boats, all Keir Starmer thinks he needs to do all talk about growth, rather than actually doing anything about it. Everything his government has actually done in the last six months will strangle growth rather than enable it.

    I’ll be first in line to give him his dues, when he actually produces growth through his actions and those of his government.
    To be fair, Reeves’ negative talk last autumn had a definite impact on business and consumer confidence. It stands to reason that if careless talk costs growth, then positive talk is going to help. Can’t have it both ways.
    While positive talk is a good thing, many processes only work one way. You can boil an egg, but cooling it down won't unboil it.

    Edited extra bit: oh, and good morning, everyone.
    SORRY - TRY THIS: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/05/social-media-democracy-trust-babel/629369/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,156
    Didn't Weimar introduce government by presidential decree shortly before it all fell apart ?

    ‘It was leaked to us:’ Army in chaos over Trump orders
    Confusion around the new administration’s spending freezes and executive orders has caused disarray inside the Pentagon.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2025/01/28/army-trump-executive-order-chaos-00201074
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,135

    TimS said:

    By and large the UK has a pretty effective and intelligent regulatory regime by international standards. Just ask any multinational investor: it’s relatively easy to start and run a business, hire and fire, raise capital, pay tax, restructure. We’re seen as one of the straightforward markets, without being the Wild West.

    The big area where we are recalcitrant and extremely difficult to navigate is the planning regime. Yes there are other aspects of regulation that should be looked at, but when it comes to regulation that strangles growth it’s planning planning planning.

    Does the electorate want development? I am not so sure
    It’s a good point, and I’m not so sure either. But to boil it down to a very simplistic argument, we either need to accept that our way of life will get immeasurably worse, things more unaffordable and less convenient by building nothing or taking the hit to some of our amenity by putting spades in the ground to try and alleviate some of that problem. I think being faced with that choice the government is picking the right side of the argument, it has to just hope that the public see it that way eventually.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,615

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    Is that poster saying he wants it to get *worse*; that the EOs have not gone far enough?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,987
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    By and large the UK has a pretty effective and intelligent regulatory regime by international standards. Just ask any multinational investor: it’s relatively easy to start and run a business, hire and fire, raise capital, pay tax, restructure. We’re seen as one of the straightforward markets, without being the Wild West.

    The big area where we are recalcitrant and extremely difficult to navigate is the planning regime. Yes there are other aspects of regulation that should be looked at, but when it comes to regulation that strangles growth it’s planning planning planning.

    Does the electorate want development? I am not so sure
    To expand on this, ever been on a local community facebook group where there’s a post about planning permission? Hundreds of comments about any development being too big, inappropriate, too many people, “we are not a city”, “the council should build X instead”etc etc. These kind of comments are not usually from the Labour voting type but the Tory/Reform voting type.
    In my experience they’re from all types (over the age of 50). We even get them here in inner London.

    I make a point of never adding my name to an objection, and writing in support of developments (including one literally in - well overlooking - my backyard).
    Well done.

    We're about to submit the planning application for our self-build, if I send you the details can you post your support? ;-)
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,612
    Battlebus said:

    Taz said:

    GIN1138 said:

    So how do Labour turn this around?

    There are ways - an appearance of competence would be a good start - but I'm unsure SKS or his team have it in them.

    Keir Starmer invokes Margaret Thatcher as he goes for growth

    We must ‘cure the sickness of stagnation and decline’ in Britain, the PM says while taking aim at ‘overreach’ by watchdogs


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/keir-starmer-invokes-margaret-thatcher-as-he-goes-for-growth-kvp2fhbmg
    yes, but he wont scrap them will he ? He'll make bleaty noises and then approve more laws and restrictions.
    PB Right: the government should go for growth and deregulate.

    Government: we should go for growth and deregulate.

    PB Right: don’t believe them.

    What is the point of this discourse? There is no analysis, no engagement, just blind opposition for the sake of it.
    Well, what exactly have the government done so far to "go for growth" (other than saying they are going for growth) ?
    They have sought the advice of the regulators and raised employment costs on businesses.

    A winning strategy.
    You don't get growth by holding the status quo. Some of the jobs (and companies) around are in a holding pattern. They should have folded during Covid but we kept going by grants, loans and in some cases, fraud.

    If you want change / growth / whatever you want to call it, some jobs/companies have to die if they cannot adapt to the pressures.
    Which is what we are seeing in the high street but then govt needs to create an environment where businesses can thrive and the change to NI
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,445
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    So how do Labour turn this around?

    There are ways - an appearance of competence would be a good start - but I'm unsure SKS or his team have it in them.

    Keir Starmer invokes Margaret Thatcher as he goes for growth

    We must ‘cure the sickness of stagnation and decline’ in Britain, the PM says while taking aim at ‘overreach’ by watchdogs


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/keir-starmer-invokes-margaret-thatcher-as-he-goes-for-growth-kvp2fhbmg
    yes, but he wont scrap them will he ? He'll make bleaty noises and then approve more laws and restrictions.
    PB Right: the government should go for growth and deregulate.

    Government: we should go for growth and deregulate.

    PB Right: don’t believe them.

    What is the point of this discourse? There is no analysis, no engagement, just blind opposition for the sake of it.
    Because this Labour government is simultaneously lying, delusional, stupid, talentless, idiotic, self-destructive, and inept

    I’ll believe this new “growth strategy” when a spade goes in the dirt at Heathrow. Not until
    Are you suggesting that only an idiot would have voted for them?
    Either that or someone so small minded and petty he voted for Labour solely to discomfort a woke retired accountant in Hampstead
    Someone's been working in that excuse for months.
    Less convincing than Reeves.
    I don’t actually mean this. It’s a joke. Discombobulating @kinabalu was about 5% of my motivation for voting Labour. The rest was a mix of 1. Voting for the actual PM in my constituency, how often do you get to vote directly for the PM? 2. Wondering what it would feel like to vote Labour for the first time * and 3. “Give Labour a chance”

    *awful. It felt awful. Never again
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    Favourite stat from yesterday was that the order to remove men from women’s prisons affects 15% of people held in federal women’s prisons.

    Which, if true, must have been horrific for the actual women held there.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,652
    Sean_F said:

    Governments are never liked. But approval ratings tend to lead, not lag, voting intentions. Labour are still likely to drop to third, in coming months.

    As an aside, the two Canadian EKOS polls, which show a big rise in Liberal support, look like outliers.

    Given Trudeau has gone and Trump is threatening to annex Canada and impose tariffs on them would not be sure about that at all. The Liberals are pitching themselves as the anti Trump party in Canada and making poll gains accordingly
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,923
    Nigelb said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    So how do Labour turn this around?

    There are ways - an appearance of competence would be a good start - but I'm unsure SKS or his team have it in them.

    Keir Starmer invokes Margaret Thatcher as he goes for growth

    We must ‘cure the sickness of stagnation and decline’ in Britain, the PM says while taking aim at ‘overreach’ by watchdogs


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/keir-starmer-invokes-margaret-thatcher-as-he-goes-for-growth-kvp2fhbmg
    yes, but he wont scrap them will he ? He'll make bleaty noises and then approve more laws and restrictions.
    PB Right: the government should go for growth and deregulate.

    Government: we should go for growth and deregulate.

    PB Right: don’t believe them.

    What is the point of this discourse? There is no analysis, no engagement, just blind opposition for the sake of it.
    Rather like Rishi Sunak thinking that all he needed to do was talk about stopping the boats, all Keir Starmer thinks he needs to do all talk about growth, rather than actually doing anything about it. Everything his government has actually done in the last six months will strangle growth rather than enable it.

    I’ll be first in line to give him his dues, when he actually produces growth through his actions and those of his government.
    To be fair, Reeves’ negative talk last autumn had a definite impact on business and consumer confidence. It stands to reason that if careless talk costs growth, then positive talk is going to help. Can’t have it both ways.
    Only to a point. If you say to your wife “you are a terrible cook, a useless lover and your face makes me vomit” and then turn round seven months later and say “your food is exquisite, your lovemaking is heavenly and your face is alright” the damage is done and you might get a bit of credit that things have improved in your mind but the scars are still there and the fact that she went and shagged your best friend to make her feel better can’t be undone.

    Is that the previous government, or this one that you're on about ?
    I think we could probably apply it to every government. This was however an accident as I meant to write it in WhatsApp to my friend with the ugly wife.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,624
    edited January 29
    Nigelb said:

    Didn't Weimar introduce government by presidential decree shortly before it all fell apart ?

    ‘It was leaked to us:’ Army in chaos over Trump orders
    Confusion around the new administration’s spending freezes and executive orders has caused disarray inside the Pentagon.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2025/01/28/army-trump-executive-order-chaos-00201074

    Weimar always had the option of the President ruling by decree during a state of emergency, under Article 48 of the constitution.

    From 1930 it was invoked so frequently I think the Reichstag only met about four times.

    It was one of the big weaknesses of Weimar, although not the only one.

    It didn't help that by 1930 the President was 83 and going senile,* so the powers were ultimately transferred to the Chancellor under the Enabling Act of March 1933.

    Admittedly, that was still only passed because the SA said they would beat up anyone who didn't vote in favour of it.

    *It's a good job America has just elected somebody young, vigorous and intelligent rather than a senile geriatric with a weird obsession with sharks. Imagine the trouble such a person could cause.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    Is that poster saying he wants it to get *worse*; that the EOs have not gone far enough?
    No she is simply clarifying that Trump's EOs will not directly stop the gender medicalisation of many children as they have private insurance and don't rely on the federal government (though many insurers piggyback on Medicare, so it will likely have a knock on effect) and women in state prisons are still likely to be vulnerable to men being housed with them if they declare they are women.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,612

    TimS said:

    By and large the UK has a pretty effective and intelligent regulatory regime by international standards. Just ask any multinational investor: it’s relatively easy to start and run a business, hire and fire, raise capital, pay tax, restructure. We’re seen as one of the straightforward markets, without being the Wild West.

    The big area where we are recalcitrant and extremely difficult to navigate is the planning regime. Yes there are other aspects of regulation that should be looked at, but when it comes to regulation that strangles growth it’s planning planning planning.

    Does the electorate want development? I am not so sure
    It’s a good point, and I’m not so sure either. But to boil it down to a very simplistic argument, we either need to accept that our way of life will get immeasurably worse, things more unaffordable and less convenient by building nothing or taking the hit to some of our amenity by putting spades in the ground to try and alleviate some of that problem. I think being faced with that choice the government is picking the right side of the argument, it has to just hope that the public see it that way eventually.
    It is a fair point and I think that we do want development but most people want development somewhere else.

    Bottom line is they are going to have to lump it.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,987
    O/T We watched the very moving 'The Last Musician of Auschwitz' documentary last light (https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0027g70/the-last-musician-of-auschwitz)

    We can't have too many reminders of this utterly gross period of history.

    And at the risk of Godwinning my own post, there are very strong parallels between the rise of Hitler and the Nazis, and Trump/Maga today.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,186
    A lot of scepticism on here about Labour going for growth but I think they have realised:

    1) They have run out of room to borrow more. Hunt and Reeves have already collectively pushed this to the limits of what could still plausibly be described as fiscally sound. Any further and you risk a debt crisis, or it becomes self-defeating as higher refinancing costs on the existing debt pile outweigh the additional spending from borrowing more.

    2) They have run out of room to tax meaningfully more, absent a more ambitious gross wealth tax than would probably take three years to implement.

    3) They would genuinely like to improve public services. That either takes money or deep reform. The former is limited by points 1 and 2, the latter takes years to show benefits even if done well.

    The only remaining variable they can pull is to improve growth. Even if it means deregulation and putting aside environmental concerns.

    I appreciate they started off poorly (talking down the economy, tax rises on businesses) but it's too soon to write them off, I think.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,156

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    The confusion is hardly confined to "British accounts on X".

    GOP legislators don't seem to understand what they're doing when they pass bills into law.

    Talked to a bunch of House Rs this AM in Doral about the WH move to freeze federal aid. Many are defending Trump — including the chairman of House Appropriations Committee, Tom Cole, who told me he doesn’t “have a problem” with the White House decision pause the aid.

    “I think that’s probably what you ought to do when you’re coming in as a new administration,” he said.

    When asked about the legality of the White House directing agencies not to spend money appropriated by Congress, Cole called it a “legitimate exercise of executive oversight” and noted that appropriations directed by Congress are “not a law.”

    “I’m not a lawyer, I can’t pontificate on what’s legal but I suspect what’s happening is what most Republicans would be supportive of,” he said. “Appropriations is not a law, it’s the directive of Congress.”..
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,708
    Sandpit said:

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    Favourite stat from yesterday was that the order to remove men from women’s prisons affects 15% of people held in federal women’s prisons.

    Which, if true, must have been horrific for the actual women held there.
    It doesn't take a lot of googling to debunk it.

    https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_gender.jsp

    So there are 10k female prisoners and 1.5k transgender female prisoners.

    So it would be close to true if all transgender females were in womens prisons.

    But it is very rare that they are:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-women-are-nearly-always-incarcerated-men-s-putting-many-n1142436

    So why is your favourite stat something that is obviously untrue but re-enforces your priors.....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,652
    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    Governments are never liked. But approval ratings tend to lead, not lag, voting intentions. Labour are still likely to drop to third, in coming months.

    As an aside, the two Canadian EKOS polls, which show a big rise in Liberal support, look like outliers.

    Given Trudeau has gone and Trump is threatening to annex Canada and impose tariffs on them would not be sure about that at all. The Liberals are pitching themselves as the anti Trump party in Canada and making poll gains accordingly
    Other pollsters still have the Liberals up even if less than EKOS. Sometimes the outlier can be right too as Survation was here in 2015 and 2017 or Trafalgar was in the US in 2016
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,915
    edited January 29
    carnforth said:

    Quebec's new language law going well:

    https://www.montrealgazette.com/news/article710168.html

    "Montreal library cites language law for refusing space to anglo book club."

    I suppose we should be glad they're not kidnapping diplomats any more.

    Including Quebec, Canadia has an English-speaking* majority of 64%
    Excluding Quebec, Canadia has an English-speaking* majority of 80%.

    [* language spoken at home]

    cf. USA = 78%
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,612
    Ratters said:

    A lot of scepticism on here about Labour going for growth but I think they have realised:

    1) They have run out of room to borrow more. Hunt and Reeves have already collectively pushed this to the limits of what could still plausibly be described as fiscally sound. Any further and you risk a debt crisis, or it becomes self-defeating as higher refinancing costs on the existing debt pile outweigh the additional spending from borrowing more.

    2) They have run out of room to tax meaningfully more, absent a more ambitious gross wealth tax than would probably take three years to implement.

    3) They would genuinely like to improve public services. That either takes money or deep reform. The former is limited by points 1 and 2, the latter takes years to show benefits even if done well.

    The only remaining variable they can pull is to improve growth. Even if it means deregulation and putting aside environmental concerns.

    I appreciate they started off poorly (talking down the economy, tax rises on businesses) but it's too soon to write them off, I think.

    I get the scepticism, There is alot of talk about it but nothing concrete so far.

    However they can turn it around. I agree. They have the chance to and it does seem the top table in Labour does get it now. If they do start to get some growth I think they can easily convert the WNV/DK's back to Labour and win a second term.

    Alot hinges on it and reforming the planning system.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    Nigelb said:

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    The confusion is hardly confined to "British accounts on X".

    GOP legislators don't seem to understand what they're doing when they pass bills into law.

    Talked to a bunch of House Rs this AM in Doral about the WH move to freeze federal aid. Many are defending Trump — including the chairman of House Appropriations Committee, Tom Cole, who told me he doesn’t “have a problem” with the White House decision pause the aid.

    “I think that’s probably what you ought to do when you’re coming in as a new administration,” he said.

    When asked about the legality of the White House directing agencies not to spend money appropriated by Congress, Cole called it a “legitimate exercise of executive oversight” and noted that appropriations directed by Congress are “not a law.”

    “I’m not a lawyer, I can’t pontificate on what’s legal but I suspect what’s happening is what most Republicans would be supportive of,” he said. “Appropriations is not a law, it’s the directive of Congress.”..
    Some of them at least are on top of their brief:

    BREAKING: Secretary of State Marco Rubio provides waiver for @PEPFAR to provide HIV medications to poor nations.

    The Trump administration had thrown the foreign aid program into chaos this week by putting it on a 90-day "pause" along with all other foreign aid. People with HIV were not even allowed to pick up their medications.


    https://x.com/benryanwriter/status/1884433881853747427
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,836
    Sandpit said:

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    Favourite stat from yesterday was that the order to remove men from women’s prisons affects 15% of people held in federal women’s prisons.

    Which, if true, must have been horrific for the actual women held there.
    any time you post 'if true' I'm pretty sure it isn't
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,652

    Parties of the Left: 55%
    Parties of the Right: 45%

    The LDs have been in government with the Tories for five years, they can't really be classed as a leftwing party just an anti Brexit party
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281

    Sandpit said:

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    Favourite stat from yesterday was that the order to remove men from women’s prisons affects 15% of people held in federal women’s prisons.

    Which, if true, must have been horrific for the actual women held there.
    It doesn't take a lot of googling to debunk it.

    https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_gender.jsp

    So there are 10k female prisoners and 1.5k transgender female prisoners.

    So it would be close to true if all transgender females were in womens prisons.

    But it is very rare that they are:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-women-are-nearly-always-incarcerated-men-s-putting-many-n1142436

    So why is your favourite stat something that is obviously untrue but re-enforces your priors.....
    Why is your rebuttal from a study that's 5 years old?

    You think nothing changed under the Biden administration?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,785
    ..
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    So how do Labour turn this around?

    There are ways - an appearance of competence would be a good start - but I'm unsure SKS or his team have it in them.

    Keir Starmer invokes Margaret Thatcher as he goes for growth

    We must ‘cure the sickness of stagnation and decline’ in Britain, the PM says while taking aim at ‘overreach’ by watchdogs


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/keir-starmer-invokes-margaret-thatcher-as-he-goes-for-growth-kvp2fhbmg
    yes, but he wont scrap them will he ? He'll make bleaty noises and then approve more laws and restrictions.
    PB Right: the government should go for growth and deregulate.

    Government: we should go for growth and deregulate.

    PB Right: don’t believe them.

    What is the point of this discourse? There is no analysis, no engagement, just blind opposition for the sake of it.
    Because this Labour government is simultaneously lying, delusional, stupid, talentless, idiotic, self-destructive, and inept

    I’ll believe this new “growth strategy” when a spade goes in the dirt at Heathrow. Not until
    Are you suggesting that only an idiot would have voted for them?
    Either that or someone so small minded and petty he voted for Labour solely to discomfort a woke retired accountant in Hampstead
    Someone's been working in that excuse for months.
    Less convincing than Reeves.
    I don’t actually mean this. It’s a joke. Discombobulating @kinabalu was about 5% of my motivation for voting Labour. The rest was a mix of 1. Voting for the actual PM in my constituency, how often do you get to vote directly for the PM? 2. Wondering what it would feel like to vote Labour for the first time * and 3. “Give Labour a chance”

    *awful. It felt awful. Never again
    Wick
    Man love
    Myanmar International Airways
    Voting Labour

    Anything else you want to add to the felt awful, never again list?

  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,165
    HYUFD said:

    Parties of the Left: 55%
    Parties of the Right: 45%

    The LDs have been in government with the Tories for five years, they can't really be classed as a leftwing party just an anti Brexit party
    Reform aren’t a right wing party.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,239
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Didn't Weimar introduce government by presidential decree shortly before it all fell apart ?

    ‘It was leaked to us:’ Army in chaos over Trump orders
    Confusion around the new administration’s spending freezes and executive orders has caused disarray inside the Pentagon.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2025/01/28/army-trump-executive-order-chaos-00201074

    Weimar always had the option of the President ruling by decree during a state of emergency, under Article 48 of the constitution.

    From 1930 it was invoked so frequently I think the Reichstag only met about four times.

    It was one of the big weaknesses of Weimar, although not the only one.

    It didn't help that by 1930 the President was 83 and going senile,* so the powers were ultimately transferred to the Chancellor under the Enabling Act of March 1933.

    Admittedly, that was still only passed because the SA said they would beat up anyone who didn't vote in favour of it.

    *It's a good job America has just elected somebody young, vigorous and intelligent rather than a senile geriatric with a weird obsession with sharks. Imagine the trouble such a person could cause.
    The leaders of Proud Boys and Oath Keepers have been freed.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,156
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    A lot of scepticism on here about Labour going for growth but I think they have realised:

    1) They have run out of room to borrow more. Hunt and Reeves have already collectively pushed this to the limits of what could still plausibly be described as fiscally sound. Any further and you risk a debt crisis, or it becomes self-defeating as higher refinancing costs on the existing debt pile outweigh the additional spending from borrowing more.

    2) They have run out of room to tax meaningfully more, absent a more ambitious gross wealth tax than would probably take three years to implement.

    3) They would genuinely like to improve public services. That either takes money or deep reform. The former is limited by points 1 and 2, the latter takes years to show benefits even if done well.

    The only remaining variable they can pull is to improve growth. Even if it means deregulation and putting aside environmental concerns.

    I appreciate they started off poorly (talking down the economy, tax rises on businesses) but it's too soon to write them off, I think.

    I get the scepticism, There is alot of talk about it but nothing concrete so far.

    However they can turn it around. I agree. They have the chance to and it does seem the top table in Labour does get it now. If they do start to get some growth I think they can easily convert the WNV/DK's back to Labour and win a second term.

    A lot hinges on it and reforming the planning system.
    I'm keeping something of an open mind on it.
    It's possible that they're actually desperate enough to push this through.
    And the combination of a massive parliamentary majority, and extremely fragile electoral support, provides both means and motivation.

    At least we'll know a lot quicker than the fourteen years the Tories took to do nothing of significance on this.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,445

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    Is that poster saying he (sic) wants it to get *worse*; that the EOs have not gone far enough?
    Yes.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,439

    Parties of the Left: 55%
    Parties of the Right: 45%

    I doubt if this binary division really works any more. I don't think the case has been made out for Reform belonging to the Right, Centre Right, Radical Right or Extreme Right. It's general approach seems to me to start from a sort of 1950s social democracy (welfare state as genuine safety net, lots of free stuff, NATO) with a very traditional view about inward migration, which is neither left nor right but nationalist and anti globalist.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021

    Sandpit said:

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    Favourite stat from yesterday was that the order to remove men from women’s prisons affects 15% of people held in federal women’s prisons.

    Which, if true, must have been horrific for the actual women held there.
    It doesn't take a lot of googling to debunk it.

    https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_gender.jsp

    So there are 10k female prisoners and 1.5k transgender female prisoners.

    So it would be close to true if all transgender females were in womens prisons.

    But it is very rare that they are:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-women-are-nearly-always-incarcerated-men-s-putting-many-n1142436

    So why is your favourite stat something that is obviously untrue but re-enforces your priors.....
    The original source was The NY Times.

    https://x.com/alexberenson/status/1882836921363448148

    Yes it could be read that not all of them are currently in the women’s prison.

    The exact quote is “15% of women in prison are transgender” rather than “15% of people in women’s prison are transgender”.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,708

    Sandpit said:

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    Favourite stat from yesterday was that the order to remove men from women’s prisons affects 15% of people held in federal women’s prisons.

    Which, if true, must have been horrific for the actual women held there.
    It doesn't take a lot of googling to debunk it.

    https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_gender.jsp

    So there are 10k female prisoners and 1.5k transgender female prisoners.

    So it would be close to true if all transgender females were in womens prisons.

    But it is very rare that they are:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-women-are-nearly-always-incarcerated-men-s-putting-many-n1142436

    So why is your favourite stat something that is obviously untrue but re-enforces your priors.....
    Why is your rebuttal from a study that's 5 years old?

    You think nothing changed under the Biden administration?
    Because it is the most recent quickly found stat. Your the expert, please provide the up to date figures.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,156

    ..

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    So how do Labour turn this around?

    There are ways - an appearance of competence would be a good start - but I'm unsure SKS or his team have it in them.

    Keir Starmer invokes Margaret Thatcher as he goes for growth

    We must ‘cure the sickness of stagnation and decline’ in Britain, the PM says while taking aim at ‘overreach’ by watchdogs


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/keir-starmer-invokes-margaret-thatcher-as-he-goes-for-growth-kvp2fhbmg
    yes, but he wont scrap them will he ? He'll make bleaty noises and then approve more laws and restrictions.
    PB Right: the government should go for growth and deregulate.

    Government: we should go for growth and deregulate.

    PB Right: don’t believe them.

    What is the point of this discourse? There is no analysis, no engagement, just blind opposition for the sake of it.
    Because this Labour government is simultaneously lying, delusional, stupid, talentless, idiotic, self-destructive, and inept

    I’ll believe this new “growth strategy” when a spade goes in the dirt at Heathrow. Not until
    Are you suggesting that only an idiot would have voted for them?
    Either that or someone so small minded and petty he voted for Labour solely to discomfort a woke retired accountant in Hampstead
    Someone's been working in that excuse for months.
    Less convincing than Reeves.
    I don’t actually mean this. It’s a joke. Discombobulating @kinabalu was about 5% of my motivation for voting Labour. The rest was a mix of 1. Voting for the actual PM in my constituency, how often do you get to vote directly for the PM? 2. Wondering what it would feel like to vote Labour for the first time * and 3. “Give Labour a chance”

    *awful. It felt awful. Never again
    Wick
    Man love
    Myanmar International Airways
    Voting Labour

    Anything else you want to add to the felt awful, never again list?

    "Try everything once, except folk dancing and incest."
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999
    edited January 29
    ...
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    Governments are never liked. But approval ratings tend to lead, not lag, voting intentions. Labour are still likely to drop to third, in coming months.

    As an aside, the two Canadian EKOS polls, which show a big rise in Liberal support, look like outliers.

    Given Trudeau has gone and Trump is threatening to annex Canada and impose tariffs on them would not be sure about that at all. The Liberals are pitching themselves as the anti Trump party in Canada and making poll gains accordingly
    Other pollsters still have the Liberals up even if less than EKOS. Sometimes the outlier can be right too as Survation was here in 2015 and 2017 or Trafalgar was in the US in 2016
    Trafalgar were just lucky. Cahaly's methods do not confirm to the usual polling norms. Guessing is not opinion polling.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,445

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    Is that poster saying he wants it to get *worse*; that the EOs have not gone far enough?
    No she is simply clarifying that Trump's EOs will not directly stop the gender medicalisation of many children as they have private insurance and don't rely on the federal government (though many insurers piggyback on Medicare, so it will likely have a knock on effect) and women in state prisons are still likely to be vulnerable to men being housed with them if they declare they are women...
    ...and that "the fight is all over here when it's just beginning". Fem_nb's intent is plainly that the position be expanded to cover the state and private sphere.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281

    Sandpit said:

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    Favourite stat from yesterday was that the order to remove men from women’s prisons affects 15% of people held in federal women’s prisons.

    Which, if true, must have been horrific for the actual women held there.
    It doesn't take a lot of googling to debunk it.

    https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_gender.jsp

    So there are 10k female prisoners and 1.5k transgender female prisoners.

    So it would be close to true if all transgender females were in womens prisons.

    But it is very rare that they are:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-women-are-nearly-always-incarcerated-men-s-putting-many-n1142436

    So why is your favourite stat something that is obviously untrue but re-enforces your priors.....
    Why is your rebuttal from a study that's 5 years old?

    You think nothing changed under the Biden administration?
    Because it is the most recent quickly found stat. Your the expert, please provide the up to date figures.
    I don't think they're known since bodies started conflating "gender" with "sex" - to take a local example:

    'Stop conflating sex and gender, NHS told by watchdog'

    'NHS England accused of conflating the terms in its staff survey which asked about 'gender discrimination' and whether a person’s gender had an impact on career progression, rather than their sex'


    https://x.com/JournalismSEEN/status/1884291618687303742
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,987
    edited January 29
    HYUFD said:

    Parties of the Left: 55%
    Parties of the Right: 45%

    The LDs have been in government with the Tories for five years, they can't really be classed as a leftwing party just an anti Brexit party
    I didn't say 'leftwing' I said 'of the left'. The Liberals have always been 'of the left', even when in coalition with the Tories.

    Also, ask yourself this: If they had a binary choice between forming a coalition with the Ref/Con or Lab/Green, which way do you think they would go?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,987
    edited January 29
    algarkirk said:

    Parties of the Left: 55%
    Parties of the Right: 45%

    I doubt if this binary division really works any more. I don't think the case has been made out for Reform belonging to the Right, Centre Right, Radical Right or Extreme Right. It's general approach seems to me to start from a sort of 1950s social democracy (welfare state as genuine safety net, lots of free stuff, NATO) with a very traditional view about inward migration, which is neither left nor right but nationalist and anti globalist.
    Reform are Right of centre populists; I would argue they are extreme right.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,377
    Robert Jenrick has the same problem as Kemi Badenoch when it comes to holding this government to account, as yesterday when he faced this response from Shabana Mahmood, the Justice Secretary:-

    What an absolutely outrageous set of remarks! The right hon. Member completely forgets that, only six months ago, his Government were in charge. The Government of which he was part all but ran our justice system into the ground. I do not recall seeing him standing up and speaking about delays for rape victims, or indeed any other kind of victim, when he was on this side of the House. I am glad he has now realised that the system ought to try to put victims first. His critique would have more force were it not for the fact that this Government, having come to office only six months ago, have increased Crown court sitting capacity by 2,500 days.

    30s video clip on TwiX:-
    https://x.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1884273412534894738
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,445

    Good morning all from the golf course


    Dog for scale. Thank you.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,708

    Sandpit said:

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    Favourite stat from yesterday was that the order to remove men from women’s prisons affects 15% of people held in federal women’s prisons.

    Which, if true, must have been horrific for the actual women held there.
    It doesn't take a lot of googling to debunk it.

    https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_gender.jsp

    So there are 10k female prisoners and 1.5k transgender female prisoners.

    So it would be close to true if all transgender females were in womens prisons.

    But it is very rare that they are:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-women-are-nearly-always-incarcerated-men-s-putting-many-n1142436

    So why is your favourite stat something that is obviously untrue but re-enforces your priors.....
    Why is your rebuttal from a study that's 5 years old?

    You think nothing changed under the Biden administration?
    Because it is the most recent quickly found stat. Your the expert, please provide the up to date figures.
    I don't think they're known since bodies started conflating "gender" with "sex" - to take a local example:

    'Stop conflating sex and gender, NHS told by watchdog'

    'NHS England accused of conflating the terms in its staff survey which asked about 'gender discrimination' and whether a person’s gender had an impact on career progression, rather than their sex'


    https://x.com/JournalismSEEN/status/1884291618687303742
    In the US they are tracking the numbers.

    It is absurd to think that we have gone from 15 prisoners out of 4,890 in 2020 to almost 100% now and no-one has any numbers or policy documents to show this.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999

    algarkirk said:

    Parties of the Left: 55%
    Parties of the Right: 45%

    I doubt if this binary division really works any more. I don't think the case has been made out for Reform belonging to the Right, Centre Right, Radical Right or Extreme Right. It's general approach seems to me to start from a sort of 1950s social democracy (welfare state as genuine safety net, lots of free stuff, NATO) with a very traditional view about inward migration, which is neither left nor right but nationalist and anti globalist.
    Reform are Right of centre populists; I would argue they are extreme right.
    At that point at the top of the circle where far left nationalism meets far right nationalism?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,836

    Sandpit said:

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    Favourite stat from yesterday was that the order to remove men from women’s prisons affects 15% of people held in federal women’s prisons.

    Which, if true, must have been horrific for the actual women held there.
    It doesn't take a lot of googling to debunk it.

    https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_gender.jsp

    So there are 10k female prisoners and 1.5k transgender female prisoners.

    So it would be close to true if all transgender females were in womens prisons.

    But it is very rare that they are:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-women-are-nearly-always-incarcerated-men-s-putting-many-n1142436

    So why is your favourite stat something that is obviously untrue but re-enforces your priors.....
    Why is your rebuttal from a study that's 5 years old?

    You think nothing changed under the Biden administration?
    How about this:
    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24520773-peters-responses-to-judiciary-committee-2022/?q=female&mode=document#document/p6

    "As of October 24, 2023, there are 10 transgender women housed in BOP female facilities"
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,836
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    Favourite stat from yesterday was that the order to remove men from women’s prisons affects 15% of people held in federal women’s prisons.

    Which, if true, must have been horrific for the actual women held there.
    It doesn't take a lot of googling to debunk it.

    https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_gender.jsp

    So there are 10k female prisoners and 1.5k transgender female prisoners.

    So it would be close to true if all transgender females were in womens prisons.

    But it is very rare that they are:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-women-are-nearly-always-incarcerated-men-s-putting-many-n1142436

    So why is your favourite stat something that is obviously untrue but re-enforces your priors.....
    The original source was The NY Times.

    https://x.com/alexberenson/status/1882836921363448148

    Yes it could be read that not all of them are currently in the women’s prison.

    The exact quote is “15% of women in prison are transgender” rather than “15% of people in women’s prison are transgender”.
    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24520773-peters-responses-to-judiciary-committee-2022/?q=female&mode=document#document/p6

    "As of October 24, 2023, there are 10 transgender women housed in BOP female facilities"
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,612
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    A lot of scepticism on here about Labour going for growth but I think they have realised:

    1) They have run out of room to borrow more. Hunt and Reeves have already collectively pushed this to the limits of what could still plausibly be described as fiscally sound. Any further and you risk a debt crisis, or it becomes self-defeating as higher refinancing costs on the existing debt pile outweigh the additional spending from borrowing more.

    2) They have run out of room to tax meaningfully more, absent a more ambitious gross wealth tax than would probably take three years to implement.

    3) They would genuinely like to improve public services. That either takes money or deep reform. The former is limited by points 1 and 2, the latter takes years to show benefits even if done well.

    The only remaining variable they can pull is to improve growth. Even if it means deregulation and putting aside environmental concerns.

    I appreciate they started off poorly (talking down the economy, tax rises on businesses) but it's too soon to write them off, I think.

    I get the scepticism, There is alot of talk about it but nothing concrete so far.

    However they can turn it around. I agree. They have the chance to and it does seem the top table in Labour does get it now. If they do start to get some growth I think they can easily convert the WNV/DK's back to Labour and win a second term.

    A lot hinges on it and reforming the planning system.
    I'm keeping something of an open mind on it.
    It's possible that they're actually desperate enough to push this through.
    And the combination of a massive parliamentary majority, and extremely fragile electoral support, provides both means and motivation.

    At least we'll know a lot quicker than the fourteen years the Tories took to do nothing of significance on this.
    Same here. I am prepared to keep an open mind and although have been critical of Reeves previously I have been pleased to see the change in tone and emphasis from her in the last few weeks and have said so here.

    I feel let down by Labour having voted for them. Won't vote for them in the locals. Probably Independent and whoever else is likely to win that is not labour, merely to relay disatisfaction, and if that is Reform so be it. However for a GE I am a DK/WNV now and can be won back and it is nice that my seat is nominally Reform at the moment so Labour will want my vote and work for it rather than taking it for granted as they did in the Giles Radice/Kevan Jones years.

    The Tories are such a low bar to compare them to. It is hard to see what they actually did in this area of any significance or positivity.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,189
    algarkirk said:

    Parties of the Left: 55%
    Parties of the Right: 45%

    I doubt if this binary division really works any more. I don't think the case has been made out for Reform belonging to the Right, Centre Right, Radical Right or Extreme Right. It's general approach seems to me to start from a sort of 1950s social democracy (welfare state as genuine safety net, lots of free stuff, NATO) with a very traditional view about inward migration, which is neither left nor right but nationalist and anti globalist.
    There is a big disconnect between Reform leadership, the membership and their voters, perhaps the greatest divide of any of our parties.

    The leadership and members (should that be subscribers?) are Thatcherite free marketeers wanting a vastly smaller state, the voters are much more traditional social conservatives, nostalgic for the welfare state and manufacturing industry of the fifties and sixties, viewed through rose tinted spectacles.

    So a party of the centre-left led by the Thatcherite right. They don't fit neatly on the spectrum, and the voters are at least potentially open to a return to Labour if there is some genuine levelling up, and immigration continues to plummet. The visa figures indicate that the stats published yesterday are simply wrong.

    https://bsky.app/profile/jdportes.bsky.social/post/3lgslmocs422a
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,439

    ..

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    So how do Labour turn this around?

    There are ways - an appearance of competence would be a good start - but I'm unsure SKS or his team have it in them.

    Keir Starmer invokes Margaret Thatcher as he goes for growth

    We must ‘cure the sickness of stagnation and decline’ in Britain, the PM says while taking aim at ‘overreach’ by watchdogs


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/keir-starmer-invokes-margaret-thatcher-as-he-goes-for-growth-kvp2fhbmg
    yes, but he wont scrap them will he ? He'll make bleaty noises and then approve more laws and restrictions.
    PB Right: the government should go for growth and deregulate.

    Government: we should go for growth and deregulate.

    PB Right: don’t believe them.

    What is the point of this discourse? There is no analysis, no engagement, just blind opposition for the sake of it.
    Because this Labour government is simultaneously lying, delusional, stupid, talentless, idiotic, self-destructive, and inept

    I’ll believe this new “growth strategy” when a spade goes in the dirt at Heathrow. Not until
    Are you suggesting that only an idiot would have voted for them?
    Either that or someone so small minded and petty he voted for Labour solely to discomfort a woke retired accountant in Hampstead
    Someone's been working in that excuse for months.
    Less convincing than Reeves.
    I don’t actually mean this. It’s a joke. Discombobulating @kinabalu was about 5% of my motivation for voting Labour. The rest was a mix of 1. Voting for the actual PM in my constituency, how often do you get to vote directly for the PM? 2. Wondering what it would feel like to vote Labour for the first time * and 3. “Give Labour a chance”

    *awful. It felt awful. Never again
    Wick
    Man love
    Myanmar International Airways
    Voting Labour

    Anything else you want to add to the felt awful, never again list?

    Rail travel on Sundays
    Shopping malls
    ITV
    Reading Wittgenstein
    Les Miserables
    Harry Potter volumes 5, 6 and 7.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,708
    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    Favourite stat from yesterday was that the order to remove men from women’s prisons affects 15% of people held in federal women’s prisons.

    Which, if true, must have been horrific for the actual women held there.
    It doesn't take a lot of googling to debunk it.

    https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_gender.jsp

    So there are 10k female prisoners and 1.5k transgender female prisoners.

    So it would be close to true if all transgender females were in womens prisons.

    But it is very rare that they are:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-women-are-nearly-always-incarcerated-men-s-putting-many-n1142436

    So why is your favourite stat something that is obviously untrue but re-enforces your priors.....
    The original source was The NY Times.

    https://x.com/alexberenson/status/1882836921363448148

    Yes it could be read that not all of them are currently in the women’s prison.

    The exact quote is “15% of women in prison are transgender” rather than “15% of people in women’s prison are transgender”.
    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24520773-peters-responses-to-judiciary-committee-2022/?q=female&mode=document#document/p6

    "As of October 24, 2023, there are 10 transgender women housed in BOP female facilities"
    Given the numbers it must be cheaper to build small separate transgender wings at a handful of prisons rather than decades of court cases and policy shifts that are never going to satisfy all.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    Favourite stat from yesterday was that the order to remove men from women’s prisons affects 15% of people held in federal women’s prisons.

    Which, if true, must have been horrific for the actual women held there.
    It doesn't take a lot of googling to debunk it.

    https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_gender.jsp

    So there are 10k female prisoners and 1.5k transgender female prisoners.

    So it would be close to true if all transgender females were in womens prisons.

    But it is very rare that they are:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-women-are-nearly-always-incarcerated-men-s-putting-many-n1142436

    So why is your favourite stat something that is obviously untrue but re-enforces your priors.....
    The original source was The NY Times.

    https://x.com/alexberenson/status/1882836921363448148

    Yes it could be read that not all of them are currently in the women’s prison.

    The exact quote is “15% of women in prison are transgender” rather than “15% of people in women’s prison are transgender”.
    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24520773-peters-responses-to-judiciary-committee-2022/?q=female&mode=document#document/p6

    "As of October 24, 2023, there are 10 transgender women housed in BOP female facilities"
    Good. Then it shouldn't be a problem to safely accommodate them in the male prison estate.

    Any idea how many are in State Prisons (which is 88% of the US prison population)?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 12,746
    GIN1138 said:

    So how do Labour turn this around?

    There are ways - an appearance of competence would be a good start - but I'm unsure SKS or his team have it in them.

    Keir Starmer invokes Margaret Thatcher as he goes for growth

    We must ‘cure the sickness of stagnation and decline’ in Britain, the PM says while taking aim at ‘overreach’ by watchdogs


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/keir-starmer-invokes-margaret-thatcher-as-he-goes-for-growth-kvp2fhbmg
    yes, but he wont scrap them will he ? He'll make bleaty noises and then approve more laws and restrictions.
    PB Right: the government should go for growth and deregulate.

    Government: we should go for growth and deregulate.

    PB Right: don’t believe them.

    What is the point of this discourse? There is no analysis, no engagement, just blind opposition for the sake of it.
    Well, what exactly have the government done so far to "go for growth" (other than saying they are going for growth) ?
    Yesterday: https://www.ukri.org/news/developing-regulatory-science-to-advance-healthcare/
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 997
    Not a single Conservative down to ask a questions of the Prime Minister today - have they given up?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,988
    London is colder than Orlando

    That is my quota of value added comments for the day
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    Favourite stat from yesterday was that the order to remove men from women’s prisons affects 15% of people held in federal women’s prisons.

    Which, if true, must have been horrific for the actual women held there.
    It doesn't take a lot of googling to debunk it.

    https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_gender.jsp

    So there are 10k female prisoners and 1.5k transgender female prisoners.

    So it would be close to true if all transgender females were in womens prisons.

    But it is very rare that they are:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-women-are-nearly-always-incarcerated-men-s-putting-many-n1142436

    So why is your favourite stat something that is obviously untrue but re-enforces your priors.....
    The original source was The NY Times.

    https://x.com/alexberenson/status/1882836921363448148

    Yes it could be read that not all of them are currently in the women’s prison.

    The exact quote is “15% of women in prison are transgender” rather than “15% of people in women’s prison are transgender”.
    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24520773-peters-responses-to-judiciary-committee-2022/?q=female&mode=document#document/p6

    "As of October 24, 2023, there are 10 transgender women housed in BOP female facilities"
    That’s very out of date.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,156
    edited January 29
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Didn't Weimar introduce government by presidential decree shortly before it all fell apart ?

    ‘It was leaked to us:’ Army in chaos over Trump orders
    Confusion around the new administration’s spending freezes and executive orders has caused disarray inside the Pentagon.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2025/01/28/army-trump-executive-order-chaos-00201074

    Weimar always had the option of the President ruling by decree during a state of emergency, under Article 48 of the constitution.

    From 1930 it was invoked so frequently I think the Reichstag only met about four times.

    It was one of the big weaknesses of Weimar, although not the only one.

    It didn't help that by 1930 the President was 83 and going senile,* so the powers were ultimately transferred to the Chancellor under the Enabling Act of March 1933.

    Admittedly, that was still only passed because the SA said they would beat up anyone who didn't vote in favour of it.

    *It's a good job America has just elected somebody young, vigorous and intelligent rather than a senile geriatric with a weird obsession with sharks. Imagine the trouble such a person could cause.
    Trump doesn't have those powers, of course, even though Congress is acting as though he does, notably over the appropriations bill, where the law is being comprehensively flouted.

    Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Budget_and_Impoundment_Control_Act_of_1974
    Title X of the Act, also known as the Impoundment Control Act of 1974, specifies that the president may request that Congress rescind appropriated funds. If both the Senate and the House of Representatives have not approved a rescission proposal (by passing legislation) within forty-five days of continuous session, any funds being withheld must be made available for obligation. Congress is not required to vote on the request and has ignored most presidential requests...
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,708

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    Favourite stat from yesterday was that the order to remove men from women’s prisons affects 15% of people held in federal women’s prisons.

    Which, if true, must have been horrific for the actual women held there.
    It doesn't take a lot of googling to debunk it.

    https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_gender.jsp

    So there are 10k female prisoners and 1.5k transgender female prisoners.

    So it would be close to true if all transgender females were in womens prisons.

    But it is very rare that they are:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-women-are-nearly-always-incarcerated-men-s-putting-many-n1142436

    So why is your favourite stat something that is obviously untrue but re-enforces your priors.....
    The original source was The NY Times.

    https://x.com/alexberenson/status/1882836921363448148

    Yes it could be read that not all of them are currently in the women’s prison.

    The exact quote is “15% of women in prison are transgender” rather than “15% of people in women’s prison are transgender”.
    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24520773-peters-responses-to-judiciary-committee-2022/?q=female&mode=document#document/p6

    "As of October 24, 2023, there are 10 transgender women housed in BOP female facilities"
    Good. Then it shouldn't be a problem to safely accommodate them in the male prison estate.

    Any idea how many are in State Prisons (which is 88% of the US prison population)?
    I can understand concerns about them being in womens prisons but of course it is a problem to keep them safe in male prisons, especially ones as lawless as the US system.

    "Of the 10 transgender women at Chino who spoke to NBC News during a weekend visit last year, nine said they’d been sexually assaulted behind bars."
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,836

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    Favourite stat from yesterday was that the order to remove men from women’s prisons affects 15% of people held in federal women’s prisons.

    Which, if true, must have been horrific for the actual women held there.
    It doesn't take a lot of googling to debunk it.

    https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_gender.jsp

    So there are 10k female prisoners and 1.5k transgender female prisoners.

    So it would be close to true if all transgender females were in womens prisons.

    But it is very rare that they are:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-women-are-nearly-always-incarcerated-men-s-putting-many-n1142436

    So why is your favourite stat something that is obviously untrue but re-enforces your priors.....
    The original source was The NY Times.

    https://x.com/alexberenson/status/1882836921363448148

    Yes it could be read that not all of them are currently in the women’s prison.

    The exact quote is “15% of women in prison are transgender” rather than “15% of people in women’s prison are transgender”.
    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24520773-peters-responses-to-judiciary-committee-2022/?q=female&mode=document#document/p6

    "As of October 24, 2023, there are 10 transgender women housed in BOP female facilities"
    Good. Then it shouldn't be a problem to safely accommodate them in the male prison estate.

    Any idea how many are in State Prisons (which is 88% of the US prison population)?
    I have no idea, why don't you find out? I only wanted to point out that Sandpit's 15% was nowhere near 'if true'
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,217
    edited January 29
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Parties of the Left: 55%
    Parties of the Right: 45%

    The LDs have been in government with the Tories for five years, they can't really be classed as a leftwing party just an anti Brexit party
    Reform aren’t a right wing party.
    This is the problem with using the words left and right, which I have always thought problematic. I am a liberal, both socially and financially, which often makes me to the 'right' (if we have to use that term) to Conservatives in certain areas and definitely Reform. Both conservative with a small 'c' and whom I often think come out with very authoritarian stuff.

    Maybe Progressive and Conservative would be better terms. Still not happy with that though.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,708
    edited January 29
    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    Favourite stat from yesterday was that the order to remove men from women’s prisons affects 15% of people held in federal women’s prisons.

    Which, if true, must have been horrific for the actual women held there.
    It doesn't take a lot of googling to debunk it.

    https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_gender.jsp

    So there are 10k female prisoners and 1.5k transgender female prisoners.

    So it would be close to true if all transgender females were in womens prisons.

    But it is very rare that they are:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-women-are-nearly-always-incarcerated-men-s-putting-many-n1142436

    So why is your favourite stat something that is obviously untrue but re-enforces your priors.....
    The original source was The NY Times.

    https://x.com/alexberenson/status/1882836921363448148

    Yes it could be read that not all of them are currently in the women’s prison.

    The exact quote is “15% of women in prison are transgender” rather than “15% of people in women’s prison are transgender”.
    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24520773-peters-responses-to-judiciary-committee-2022/?q=female&mode=document#document/p6

    "As of October 24, 2023, there are 10 transgender women housed in BOP female facilities"
    That’s very out of date.
    Its not gone from less than 1% of transgender females in womens prisons in Oct 2023 to 100% transgender females in womens prisons today......accept reality.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,836
    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    Favourite stat from yesterday was that the order to remove men from women’s prisons affects 15% of people held in federal women’s prisons.

    Which, if true, must have been horrific for the actual women held there.
    It doesn't take a lot of googling to debunk it.

    https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_gender.jsp

    So there are 10k female prisoners and 1.5k transgender female prisoners.

    So it would be close to true if all transgender females were in womens prisons.

    But it is very rare that they are:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-women-are-nearly-always-incarcerated-men-s-putting-many-n1142436

    So why is your favourite stat something that is obviously untrue but re-enforces your priors.....
    The original source was The NY Times.

    https://x.com/alexberenson/status/1882836921363448148

    Yes it could be read that not all of them are currently in the women’s prison.

    The exact quote is “15% of women in prison are transgender” rather than “15% of people in women’s prison are transgender”.
    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24520773-peters-responses-to-judiciary-committee-2022/?q=female&mode=document#document/p6

    "As of October 24, 2023, there are 10 transgender women housed in BOP female facilities"
    That’s very out of date.
    Is that a joke or you think that in about 15 months the numbers have gone from 10 to well over a thousand?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 12,746
    Sandpit said:

    Battlebus said:

    All the parties are unpopular. It's the theme of our times.

    Or if you hold to some of Varoufakis's theory we're being told how to think by those controlling social media

    @rcs1000 and @TheScreamingEagles may wish to comment - or tell us what to say.

    https://x.com/yanisvaroufakis/status/1754175896146080157
    A long thread on how the US election was won online.

    https://x.com/njhochman/status/1883885981092438059
    ... by MAGA misinformation.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,785
    edited January 29

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    Favourite stat from yesterday was that the order to remove men from women’s prisons affects 15% of people held in federal women’s prisons.

    Which, if true, must have been horrific for the actual women held there.
    It doesn't take a lot of googling to debunk it.

    https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_gender.jsp

    So there are 10k female prisoners and 1.5k transgender female prisoners.

    So it would be close to true if all transgender females were in womens prisons.

    But it is very rare that they are:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-women-are-nearly-always-incarcerated-men-s-putting-many-n1142436

    So why is your favourite stat something that is obviously untrue but re-enforces your priors.....
    The original source was The NY Times.

    https://x.com/alexberenson/status/1882836921363448148

    Yes it could be read that not all of them are currently in the women’s prison.

    The exact quote is “15% of women in prison are transgender” rather than “15% of people in women’s prison are transgender”.
    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24520773-peters-responses-to-judiciary-committee-2022/?q=female&mode=document#document/p6

    "As of October 24, 2023, there are 10 transgender women housed in BOP female facilities"
    Given the numbers it must be cheaper to build small separate transgender wings at a handful of prisons rather than decades of court cases and policy shifts that are never going to satisfy all.
    Pretty sure there are people who want the issue to be a continuing festering sore for political reasons rather than deep concern for the individuals concerned. Tbf to Musk (not words I often use) I suppose he has some personal experience of the trans issue, but his upset seems mainly about his trans daughter really, REALLY thinking he's an asshole and loudly saying so.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    Favourite stat from yesterday was that the order to remove men from women’s prisons affects 15% of people held in federal women’s prisons.

    Which, if true, must have been horrific for the actual women held there.
    It doesn't take a lot of googling to debunk it.

    https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_gender.jsp

    So there are 10k female prisoners and 1.5k transgender female prisoners.

    So it would be close to true if all transgender females were in womens prisons.

    But it is very rare that they are:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-women-are-nearly-always-incarcerated-men-s-putting-many-n1142436

    So why is your favourite stat something that is obviously untrue but re-enforces your priors.....
    The original source was The NY Times.

    https://x.com/alexberenson/status/1882836921363448148

    Yes it could be read that not all of them are currently in the women’s prison.

    The exact quote is “15% of women in prison are transgender” rather than “15% of people in women’s prison are transgender”.
    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24520773-peters-responses-to-judiciary-committee-2022/?q=female&mode=document#document/p6

    "As of October 24, 2023, there are 10 transgender women housed in BOP female facilities"
    Good. Then it shouldn't be a problem to safely accommodate them in the male prison estate.

    Any idea how many are in State Prisons (which is 88% of the US prison population)?
    I can understand concerns about them being in womens prisons but of course it is a problem to keep them safe in male prisons, especially ones as lawless as the US system.

    "Of the 10 transgender women at Chino who spoke to NBC News during a weekend visit last year, nine said they’d been sexually assaulted behind bars."
    The young, the old, and gay men are vulnerable to sexual assault in male prisons - they, and men who identify as women need to be provided with safe accommodation.

    Shifting this male problem to female prisons is not the solution.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,708

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    Favourite stat from yesterday was that the order to remove men from women’s prisons affects 15% of people held in federal women’s prisons.

    Which, if true, must have been horrific for the actual women held there.
    It doesn't take a lot of googling to debunk it.

    https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_gender.jsp

    So there are 10k female prisoners and 1.5k transgender female prisoners.

    So it would be close to true if all transgender females were in womens prisons.

    But it is very rare that they are:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-women-are-nearly-always-incarcerated-men-s-putting-many-n1142436

    So why is your favourite stat something that is obviously untrue but re-enforces your priors.....
    The original source was The NY Times.

    https://x.com/alexberenson/status/1882836921363448148

    Yes it could be read that not all of them are currently in the women’s prison.

    The exact quote is “15% of women in prison are transgender” rather than “15% of people in women’s prison are transgender”.
    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24520773-peters-responses-to-judiciary-committee-2022/?q=female&mode=document#document/p6

    "As of October 24, 2023, there are 10 transgender women housed in BOP female facilities"
    Good. Then it shouldn't be a problem to safely accommodate them in the male prison estate.

    Any idea how many are in State Prisons (which is 88% of the US prison population)?
    I can understand concerns about them being in womens prisons but of course it is a problem to keep them safe in male prisons, especially ones as lawless as the US system.

    "Of the 10 transgender women at Chino who spoke to NBC News during a weekend visit last year, nine said they’d been sexually assaulted behind bars."
    The young, the old, and gay men are vulnerable to sexual assault in male prisons - they, and men who identify as women need to be provided with safe accommodation.

    Shifting this male problem to female prisons is not the solution.
    I haven't suggested it is. I am saying that it is very difficult to safely house them in male prisons, you say it is easy, the evidence says not.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,445
    Taz said:

    So how do Labour turn this around?

    There are ways - an appearance of competence would be a good start - but I'm unsure SKS or his team have it in them.

    Keir Starmer invokes Margaret Thatcher as he goes for growth

    We must ‘cure the sickness of stagnation and decline’ in Britain, the PM says while taking aim at ‘overreach’ by watchdogs


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/keir-starmer-invokes-margaret-thatcher-as-he-goes-for-growth-kvp2fhbmg
    yes, but he wont scrap them will he ? He'll make bleaty noises and then approve more laws and restrictions.
    PB Right: the government should go for growth and deregulate.

    Government: we should go for growth and deregulate.

    PB Right: don’t believe them.

    What is the point of this discourse? There is no analysis, no engagement, just blind opposition for the sake of it.
    I agree, there is a lot of stupid blind opposition (tbf, there was when the Conservatives were in power). But it is possible to believe this government want to deregulate, but not believe they will find it possible because they are ideologically incapable of deregulating.
    The alternative take is Starmer's approach to that A47 protestor. No, there won't be a bonfire of regulation. But there will be a meaningful pruning of regulatory abuse and overreach. And someone who believes in rules has got a better chance of making that work and stick than someone who just wants to burn it all down.

    But yes, proof of pudding, eating and all that. For the next four years, all most of us can do is wait and see and heckle.
    ...the Aarhus convention...
    ...in the middle of Aarh street. Aarhus...

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    Ooh, can the rumours about Russian air defence rockets being exhausted possibly be true?

    https://x.com/secretsqrl123/status/1884463044170064004

    Observers say that no AD rockets launched against a number of targets yesterday.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 12,746
    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ooh, it’s not just old Soviet Hamas kit flying from Israel to Poland, 90 Patriot batteries on the way too.

    https://x.com/maks_nafo_fella/status/1884332534751977932

    An interceptor is 1 x PAC-2/3 missile not a whole battery. They are only about 40 batteries in the entire US arsenal.
    Whoops yes, the battery is the whole multi-vehicle $1bn system, rather than just the rockets.

    Still good news for Kiev and Kharkiv though.
    Shame about Tulsi Gabbard though.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    Favourite stat from yesterday was that the order to remove men from women’s prisons affects 15% of people held in federal women’s prisons.

    Which, if true, must have been horrific for the actual women held there.
    It doesn't take a lot of googling to debunk it.

    https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_gender.jsp

    So there are 10k female prisoners and 1.5k transgender female prisoners.

    So it would be close to true if all transgender females were in womens prisons.

    But it is very rare that they are:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-women-are-nearly-always-incarcerated-men-s-putting-many-n1142436

    So why is your favourite stat something that is obviously untrue but re-enforces your priors.....
    The original source was The NY Times.

    https://x.com/alexberenson/status/1882836921363448148

    Yes it could be read that not all of them are currently in the women’s prison.

    The exact quote is “15% of women in prison are transgender” rather than “15% of people in women’s prison are transgender”.
    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24520773-peters-responses-to-judiciary-committee-2022/?q=female&mode=document#document/p6

    "As of October 24, 2023, there are 10 transgender women housed in BOP female facilities"
    Good. Then it shouldn't be a problem to safely accommodate them in the male prison estate.

    Any idea how many are in State Prisons (which is 88% of the US prison population)?
    I can understand concerns about them being in womens prisons but of course it is a problem to keep them safe in male prisons, especially ones as lawless as the US system.

    "Of the 10 transgender women at Chino who spoke to NBC News during a weekend visit last year, nine said they’d been sexually assaulted behind bars."
    The young, the old, and gay men are vulnerable to sexual assault in male prisons - they, and men who identify as women need to be provided with safe accommodation.

    Shifting this male problem to female prisons is not the solution.
    Yes the solution is mostly likely to be a ‘trans wing’ of a men’s prison.

    American Federal prisons are very different to British prisons, and much more violent.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 393
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Inter alia the stuff coming out of Labour - deregulate and grow! - is not just vapid bilge - it is also a tacit but clinching argument for Brexit

    Because; even if we did manage to sweep away all the stifling red tape and wankery, if we were still in the EU we would then confront an immovable second later of EU rules and regs. Which are now destroying the EU economically

    I was on a panel with DBT and a bunch of businesses yesterday fielding questions on the government “reset” with the EU. One of the big repeated complaints is all the new red tape we’ve been faced with since Brexit. Enough to have stopped thousands of small businesses from exporting. (Red tape which was described at the time as project fear).

    For bigger businesses there’s also a wish not to proliferate different regulatory regimes if the EU one is already familiar. It’s easier to deal with one set of rules than multiple.
    As someone who ran a business with over 50% export, the issue is not red tape but mind set. Main problem is they want everyone to communicate in English and pay in sterling. The world has moved on since the Empire but few seem to have noticed.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    Favourite stat from yesterday was that the order to remove men from women’s prisons affects 15% of people held in federal women’s prisons.

    Which, if true, must have been horrific for the actual women held there.
    It doesn't take a lot of googling to debunk it.

    https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_gender.jsp

    So there are 10k female prisoners and 1.5k transgender female prisoners.

    So it would be close to true if all transgender females were in womens prisons.

    But it is very rare that they are:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-women-are-nearly-always-incarcerated-men-s-putting-many-n1142436

    So why is your favourite stat something that is obviously untrue but re-enforces your priors.....
    The original source was The NY Times.

    https://x.com/alexberenson/status/1882836921363448148

    Yes it could be read that not all of them are currently in the women’s prison.

    The exact quote is “15% of women in prison are transgender” rather than “15% of people in women’s prison are transgender”.
    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24520773-peters-responses-to-judiciary-committee-2022/?q=female&mode=document#document/p6

    "As of October 24, 2023, there are 10 transgender women housed in BOP female facilities"
    That’s very out of date.
    Its not gone from less than 1% of transgender females in womens prisons in Oct 2023 to 100% transgender females in womens prisons today......accept reality.
    The NY Times figure was 15%.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,708

    Scott_xP said:

    @100glitterstars

    Possibly the quote of the week, the year, the century and for eternity.

    "The minute we start going down that track *of looking for evidence*, I think we start to lose our way"

    Kemi Badenoch

    You should never look *for* evidence

    You should look *at* the evidence and determine if your hypothesis is true or not.

    Otherwise you are at risk of confirmation bias
    Who decides what the evidence "is"? How it is collected?

    All sounds clever but in reality lots of cases where we should look for evidence. Obvious example a defence lawyer presented with evidence from the police but client says that is not the whole picture.

    It is a mix of looking both for and at evidence that is needed.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,836
    Sandpit said:

    Ooh, can the rumours about Russian air defence rockets being exhausted possibly be true?

    https://x.com/secretsqrl123/status/1884463044170064004

    Observers say that no AD rockets launched against a number of targets yesterday.

    Maybe Russia shouldn't be supplying Saudi Arabia with 2 billion dollars of air defence...
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 393

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    By and large the UK has a pretty effective and intelligent regulatory regime by international standards. Just ask any multinational investor: it’s relatively easy to start and run a business, hire and fire, raise capital, pay tax, restructure. We’re seen as one of the straightforward markets, without being the Wild West.

    The big area where we are recalcitrant and extremely difficult to navigate is the planning regime. Yes there are other aspects of regulation that should be looked at, but when it comes to regulation that strangles growth it’s planning planning planning.

    Does the electorate want development? I am not so sure
    To expand on this, ever been on a local community facebook group where there’s a post about planning permission? Hundreds of comments about any development being too big, inappropriate, too many people, “we are not a city”, “the council should build X instead”etc etc. These kind of comments are not usually from the Labour voting type but the Tory/Reform voting type.
    In my experience they’re from all types (over the age of 50). We even get them here in inner London.

    I make a point of never adding my name to an objection, and writing in support of developments (including one literally in - well overlooking - my backyard).
    Here’s a good topical example in Morpeth, Northumberland.

    https://publicaccess.northumberland.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=details&keyVal=SOC7YZQSG1700
    I know that site. It's prone to flooding.
  • Fucking hell.

    The entitlement of this tax dodging pensioner is off the scale.

    ‘I haven’t paid council tax in eight years – should I tell someone?’

    Ask A Lawyer: our reader is worried their local authority’s oversight could result in a hefty debt


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/tax/not-paid-council-tax-eight-years-tell-someone/
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,708
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    Favourite stat from yesterday was that the order to remove men from women’s prisons affects 15% of people held in federal women’s prisons.

    Which, if true, must have been horrific for the actual women held there.
    It doesn't take a lot of googling to debunk it.

    https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_gender.jsp

    So there are 10k female prisoners and 1.5k transgender female prisoners.

    So it would be close to true if all transgender females were in womens prisons.

    But it is very rare that they are:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-women-are-nearly-always-incarcerated-men-s-putting-many-n1142436

    So why is your favourite stat something that is obviously untrue but re-enforces your priors.....
    The original source was The NY Times.

    https://x.com/alexberenson/status/1882836921363448148

    Yes it could be read that not all of them are currently in the women’s prison.

    The exact quote is “15% of women in prison are transgender” rather than “15% of people in women’s prison are transgender”.
    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24520773-peters-responses-to-judiciary-committee-2022/?q=female&mode=document#document/p6

    "As of October 24, 2023, there are 10 transgender women housed in BOP female facilities"
    That’s very out of date.
    Its not gone from less than 1% of transgender females in womens prisons in Oct 2023 to 100% transgender females in womens prisons today......accept reality.
    The NY Times figure was 15%.
    No, the stat you claimed initially was 15% of the womens prison population are trangender females. That requires 100% of transgender female prisoners to be in womens prisons (a bit more than 100% but being generous, lets call it 100%).
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    Favourite stat from yesterday was that the order to remove men from women’s prisons affects 15% of people held in federal women’s prisons.

    Which, if true, must have been horrific for the actual women held there.
    It doesn't take a lot of googling to debunk it.

    https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_gender.jsp

    So there are 10k female prisoners and 1.5k transgender female prisoners.

    So it would be close to true if all transgender females were in womens prisons.

    But it is very rare that they are:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-women-are-nearly-always-incarcerated-men-s-putting-many-n1142436

    So why is your favourite stat something that is obviously untrue but re-enforces your priors.....
    The original source was The NY Times.

    https://x.com/alexberenson/status/1882836921363448148

    Yes it could be read that not all of them are currently in the women’s prison.

    The exact quote is “15% of women in prison are transgender” rather than “15% of people in women’s prison are transgender”.
    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24520773-peters-responses-to-judiciary-committee-2022/?q=female&mode=document#document/p6

    "As of October 24, 2023, there are 10 transgender women housed in BOP female facilities"
    Good. Then it shouldn't be a problem to safely accommodate them in the male prison estate.

    Any idea how many are in State Prisons (which is 88% of the US prison population)?
    I can understand concerns about them being in womens prisons but of course it is a problem to keep them safe in male prisons, especially ones as lawless as the US system.

    "Of the 10 transgender women at Chino who spoke to NBC News during a weekend visit last year, nine said they’d been sexually assaulted behind bars."
    The young, the old, and gay men are vulnerable to sexual assault in male prisons - they, and men who identify as women need to be provided with safe accommodation.

    Shifting this male problem to female prisons is not the solution.
    I haven't suggested it is. I am saying that it is very difficult to safely house them in male prisons, you say it is easy, the evidence says not.
    The "ease" was based on the numbers involved - allegedly 10 - not the simplicity of keeping the young, the old, gay men and men who identify as women safe in male prisons. But all of them deserve to be housed safely, not just one subset. And not at the expense of vulnerable women.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,377

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    Favourite stat from yesterday was that the order to remove men from women’s prisons affects 15% of people held in federal women’s prisons.

    Which, if true, must have been horrific for the actual women held there.
    It doesn't take a lot of googling to debunk it.

    https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_gender.jsp

    So there are 10k female prisoners and 1.5k transgender female prisoners.

    So it would be close to true if all transgender females were in womens prisons.

    But it is very rare that they are:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-women-are-nearly-always-incarcerated-men-s-putting-many-n1142436

    So why is your favourite stat something that is obviously untrue but re-enforces your priors.....
    The original source was The NY Times.

    https://x.com/alexberenson/status/1882836921363448148

    Yes it could be read that not all of them are currently in the women’s prison.

    The exact quote is “15% of women in prison are transgender” rather than “15% of people in women’s prison are transgender”.
    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24520773-peters-responses-to-judiciary-committee-2022/?q=female&mode=document#document/p6

    "As of October 24, 2023, there are 10 transgender women housed in BOP female facilities"
    Good. Then it shouldn't be a problem to safely accommodate them in the male prison estate.

    Any idea how many are in State Prisons (which is 88% of the US prison population)?
    Pre- or post-op transgender women? Surely that must make a difference for everything from medication to how to pee?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,958
    On regulatory reform.

    One sign that things are changing will be suits going to the Supreme Court arguing that delaying projects through lawfare is a right.

    Other things to watch for -

    - The linear process. That is, launch an appeal on one thing (stop the project). Fail. Wait until timeout is due, then launch the next case (stop the project). This is core meteorology for lawfare against projects.
    - Projects being stopped the moment any case is bought, rather than a test of likelihood of it actually being upheld.

    The streamlined process that got us lots of offshore wind is worth a look. It made quite a few of the Planning Industrial Complex types angry.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,106

    Scott_xP said:

    @100glitterstars

    Possibly the quote of the week, the year, the century and for eternity.

    "The minute we start going down that track *of looking for evidence*, I think we start to lose our way"

    Kemi Badenoch

    You should never look *for* evidence

    You should look *at* the evidence and determine if your hypothesis is true or not.

    Otherwise you are at risk of confirmation bias
    That's wrong. I spend a good chunk of my work time looking for and gathering evidence. When I have it, I then look at it, carefully.

    If we can never look for (or generate?) evidence then you're shutting down much of science and we're limited to systematic reviews (although the search part of that could be said to be looking for evidence) and maybe reviews of existing registries of data etc, but certainly no new data collection.

    On the Badenoch quote, I'd need to see the context to have a view on that. If she'd suggesting we just do what we 'know' to be right without being troubled by evidence, it's batty, but it might be something else.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,559
    GIN1138 said:

    Good morning PB.

    Kemi will turn it around, but it will take a couple of years for people to be willing to take a fresh look at the Tories, IMO.

    The latter bit is certainly true - the first bit will only be true if she gets a bit of space. At this stage, criticism of her is a sign that the critic wants her to fail and, by extension, have either Labour or Farage win the next election. Especially as the Tories performance in council by elections is significantly better than the polls suggest.

    Not that they are a good predictor but they're a better reflection of where voters are right now than opinion polls IMV.

    I expect that from the New Statesman whose article got linked to yesterday.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,202
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    I am going to repost the link to that Atlantic article again, as it is well worth a read (if you can), and is tangentially relevant to this topic also.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/05/social-media-democracy-trust-babel

    In the contemporary political environment, it is hard to envisage what a government that does command majority approval would look like? Trump might be managing it for a short while through performative stunts, but when the hard work of governing begins….

    Got a page not found error.
    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    So how do Labour turn this around?

    There are ways - an appearance of competence would be a good start - but I'm unsure SKS or his team have it in them.

    Keir Starmer invokes Margaret Thatcher as he goes for growth

    We must ‘cure the sickness of stagnation and decline’ in Britain, the PM says while taking aim at ‘overreach’ by watchdogs


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/keir-starmer-invokes-margaret-thatcher-as-he-goes-for-growth-kvp2fhbmg
    yes, but he wont scrap them will he ? He'll make bleaty noises and then approve more laws and restrictions.
    PB Right: the government should go for growth and deregulate.

    Government: we should go for growth and deregulate.

    PB Right: don’t believe them.

    What is the point of this discourse? There is no analysis, no engagement, just blind opposition for the sake of it.
    Rather like Rishi Sunak thinking that all he needed to do was talk about stopping the boats, all Keir Starmer thinks he needs to do all talk about growth, rather than actually doing anything about it. Everything his government has actually done in the last six months will strangle growth rather than enable it.

    I’ll be first in line to give him his dues, when he actually produces growth through his actions and those of his government.
    To be fair, Reeves’ negative talk last autumn had a definite impact on business and consumer confidence. It stands to reason that if careless talk costs growth, then positive talk is going to help. Can’t have it both ways.
    While positive talk is a good thing, many processes only work one way. You can boil an egg, but cooling it down won't unboil it.

    Edited extra bit: oh, and good morning, everyone.
    SORRY - TRY THIS: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/05/social-media-democracy-trust-babel/629369/
    Interesting read. The internal/in-group 'darting' reminds me of heretics being more hated than heathens.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ooh, can the rumours about Russian air defence rockets being exhausted possibly be true?

    https://x.com/secretsqrl123/status/1884463044170064004

    Observers say that no AD rockets launched against a number of targets yesterday.

    Maybe Russia shouldn't be supplying Saudi Arabia with 2 billion dollars of air defence...
    The Saudis bought AD from Russia, and not from America?

    Idiots, but if the Russians are that desperate for proper money over defending their oil industry, I guess the Saudis won’t complain too much. $2bn well spent.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,559

    So how do Labour turn this around?

    There are ways - an appearance of competence would be a good start - but I'm unsure SKS or his team have it in them.

    Keir Starmer invokes Margaret Thatcher as he goes for growth

    We must ‘cure the sickness of stagnation and decline’ in Britain, the PM says while taking aim at ‘overreach’ by watchdogs


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/keir-starmer-invokes-margaret-thatcher-as-he-goes-for-growth-kvp2fhbmg
    yes, but he wont scrap them will he ? He'll make bleaty noises and then approve more laws and restrictions.
    PB Right: the government should go for growth and deregulate.

    Government: we should go for growth and deregulate.

    PB Right: don’t believe them.

    What is the point of this discourse? There is no analysis, no engagement, just blind opposition for the sake of it.
    You're supposed to be a scientist of some sort. Surely you should want to see the evidence that they're actually doing something positive rather than promises?
  • carnforth said:

    Quebec's new language law going well:

    https://www.montrealgazette.com/news/article710168.html

    "Montreal library cites language law for refusing space to anglo book club."

    I suppose we should be glad they're not kidnapping diplomats any more.

    Including Quebec, Canadia has an English-speaking* majority of 64%
    Excluding Quebec, Canadia has an English-speaking* majority of 80%.

    [* language spoken at home]

    cf. USA = 78%
    Fun fact: There are more people in London (both numerically and as a %age) whose first language is not English than in Wales.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,377

    Sandpit said:

    Battlebus said:

    All the parties are unpopular. It's the theme of our times.

    Or if you hold to some of Varoufakis's theory we're being told how to think by those controlling social media

    @rcs1000 and @TheScreamingEagles may wish to comment - or tell us what to say.

    https://x.com/yanisvaroufakis/status/1754175896146080157
    A long thread on how the US election was won online.

    https://x.com/njhochman/status/1883885981092438059
    ... by MAGA misinformation.
    One irony here is that long before Elon Musk's hegemony, Twitter algorithms amplified the right because theirs were the tweets that caused more engagement, including from people trying to refute them.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,988
    Nigelb said:

    ..

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    So how do Labour turn this around?

    There are ways - an appearance of competence would be a good start - but I'm unsure SKS or his team have it in them.

    Keir Starmer invokes Margaret Thatcher as he goes for growth

    We must ‘cure the sickness of stagnation and decline’ in Britain, the PM says while taking aim at ‘overreach’ by watchdogs


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/keir-starmer-invokes-margaret-thatcher-as-he-goes-for-growth-kvp2fhbmg
    yes, but he wont scrap them will he ? He'll make bleaty noises and then approve more laws and restrictions.
    PB Right: the government should go for growth and deregulate.

    Government: we should go for growth and deregulate.

    PB Right: don’t believe them.

    What is the point of this discourse? There is no analysis, no engagement, just blind opposition for the sake of it.
    Because this Labour government is simultaneously lying, delusional, stupid, talentless, idiotic, self-destructive, and inept

    I’ll believe this new “growth strategy” when a spade goes in the dirt at Heathrow. Not until
    Are you suggesting that only an idiot would have voted for them?
    Either that or someone so small minded and petty he voted for Labour solely to discomfort a woke retired accountant in Hampstead
    Someone's been working in that excuse for months.
    Less convincing than Reeves.
    I don’t actually mean this. It’s a joke. Discombobulating @kinabalu was about 5% of my motivation for voting Labour. The rest was a mix of 1. Voting for the actual PM in my constituency, how often do you get to vote directly for the PM? 2. Wondering what it would feel like to vote Labour for the first time * and 3. “Give Labour a chance”

    *awful. It felt awful. Never again
    Wick
    Man love
    Myanmar International Airways
    Voting Labour

    Anything else you want to add to the felt awful, never again list?


    "Try everything once, except folk dancing and incest."
    “Vice is nice. Incest is best”
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 12,746
    Driver said:

    So how do Labour turn this around?

    There are ways - an appearance of competence would be a good start - but I'm unsure SKS or his team have it in them.

    Keir Starmer invokes Margaret Thatcher as he goes for growth

    We must ‘cure the sickness of stagnation and decline’ in Britain, the PM says while taking aim at ‘overreach’ by watchdogs


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/keir-starmer-invokes-margaret-thatcher-as-he-goes-for-growth-kvp2fhbmg
    yes, but he wont scrap them will he ? He'll make bleaty noises and then approve more laws and restrictions.
    PB Right: the government should go for growth and deregulate.

    Government: we should go for growth and deregulate.

    PB Right: don’t believe them.

    What is the point of this discourse? There is no analysis, no engagement, just blind opposition for the sake of it.
    You're supposed to be a scientist of some sort. Surely you should want to see the evidence that they're actually doing something positive rather than promises?
    Agreed. Let's wait to see some evidence. Let's not rush to conclude, without evidence, that they won't deliver.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,958
    Sandpit said:

    Ooh, can the rumours about Russian air defence rockets being exhausted possibly be true?

    https://x.com/secretsqrl123/status/1884463044170064004

    Observers say that no AD rockets launched against a number of targets yesterday.

    They are manufacturing them - but at a far lower rate than consumption. As with many weapons.

    This is why Russia is desperate for even North Korean support. They used up their fairly thin reserves of modern weapons. They’ve also rum low on the huge stockpiles of older stuff.

    And this is why you see spasmodic activity - they save up enough production / refurbished / North Korean / Chinese stuff to mount a limited offensive.

    Broken back warfare - straight out of Herman Kahn.
  • This is why doctors are paid a lot, they are taxed far too much

    ‘I’m never working for the NHS again – I owe £7,500 in tax after one shift’

    Complex pension calculations leave medical professionals with large liabilities


    When Dr Leon Creaney opened his pension statement, all he wanted was a small amount of growth. After all, he’d spent three years working on the NHS’s frontline after stepping back in to help during the Covid 19 pandemic.

    Instead, he found himself staring down at a £7,500 tax bill. He didn’t know it at the time, but he was midway through a five-year ordeal that would see him take court action against the health service he had dedicated years to.

    Reflecting on that day, he says: “My worst possible fears were realised. I opened up this letter expecting it to be a couple of hundred pounds growth for each year. I almost fainted.”

    The saga began in April 2020 at the height of lockdown. Dr Creaney, who is 47 and lives near Manchester, decided to work an A&E shift at his local hospital.

    At the time, pension savers were limited to annual contributions of £40,000 a year before facing a tax charge, with the allowance reduced further still for the highest earners.

    It was simple for people in defined contribution pensions to avoid breaching the allowance, as the calculation was based purely on how much money was paid in each year.

    For NHS pensions, however, the perceived growth of someone’s benefits was measured against the allowance – and the calculation was extremely complex.

    Dr Creaney had carefully managed how much went into his private pension, but his hospital shift came right at the end of the tax year and added another £57 into his NHS pension.

    This triggered a calculation which, due to historic inflation, found his benefits had grown by £17,500 – meaning he had breached the allowance and a tax bill of 45pc was payable.

    Graham Crossley, of Quilter, said that even today it was possible for £1 of additional income to generate a £22,500 tax bill.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/pensions/nhs-7500-tax-bill-working-one-hospital-shift/
  • berberian_knowsberberian_knows Posts: 58
    edited January 29
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Some clarification on Trump's EOs:

    There's a lot of misinformation on X about what Trump's executive orders mean, especially from British accounts.

    For example, he can't ban gender medicalization of kids. His EO only stops federal funds from paying for it. Two-thirds of Americans have private health insurance, not public, and won't be affected.

    And his prison EO can only remove men from women's FEDERAL prisons. 88% of incarcerated Americans are in state prisons and local jails, where men can still be housed with women.

    I know it's confusing because our government systems are so different, but I'm concerned that people are getting the idea this fight is all over here when it's just beginning.


    https://x.com/fem_mb/status/1884517315925999806

    Favourite stat from yesterday was that the order to remove men from women’s prisons affects 15% of people held in federal women’s prisons.

    Which, if true, must have been horrific for the actual women held there.
    It doesn't take a lot of googling to debunk it.

    https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_gender.jsp

    So there are 10k female prisoners and 1.5k transgender female prisoners.

    So it would be close to true if all transgender females were in womens prisons.

    But it is very rare that they are:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-women-are-nearly-always-incarcerated-men-s-putting-many-n1142436

    So why is your favourite stat something that is obviously untrue but re-enforces your priors.....
    The original source was The NY Times.

    https://x.com/alexberenson/status/1882836921363448148

    Yes it could be read that not all of them are currently in the women’s prison.

    The exact quote is “15% of women in prison are transgender” rather than “15% of people in women’s prison are transgender”.
    deleted
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,988
    viewcode said:

    Taz said:

    So how do Labour turn this around?

    There are ways - an appearance of competence would be a good start - but I'm unsure SKS or his team have it in them.

    Keir Starmer invokes Margaret Thatcher as he goes for growth

    We must ‘cure the sickness of stagnation and decline’ in Britain, the PM says while taking aim at ‘overreach’ by watchdogs


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/keir-starmer-invokes-margaret-thatcher-as-he-goes-for-growth-kvp2fhbmg
    yes, but he wont scrap them will he ? He'll make bleaty noises and then approve more laws and restrictions.
    PB Right: the government should go for growth and deregulate.

    Government: we should go for growth and deregulate.

    PB Right: don’t believe them.

    What is the point of this discourse? There is no analysis, no engagement, just blind opposition for the sake of it.
    I agree, there is a lot of stupid blind opposition (tbf, there was when the Conservatives were in power). But it is possible to believe this government want to deregulate, but not believe they will find it possible because they are ideologically incapable of deregulating.
    The alternative take is Starmer's approach to that A47 protestor. No, there won't be a bonfire of regulation. But there will be a meaningful pruning of regulatory abuse and overreach. And someone who believes in rules has got a better chance of making that work and stick than someone who just wants to burn it all down.

    But yes, proof of pudding, eating and all that. For the next four years, all most of us can do is wait and see and heckle.
    ...the Aarhus convention...

    ...in the middle of Aarh street. Aarhus...

    It’s a rather high end furniture store in California. I always liked the name

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    Image of the day:

    Russian oil refinery bingo.



    https://x.com/maks_nafo_fella/status/1884375586312753341

    There’s so many pro-Ukraine channels posting in the last few days that the whole Russian economy is about to fall over, please can we all pray that it’s true.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,836
    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @100glitterstars

    Possibly the quote of the week, the year, the century and for eternity.

    "The minute we start going down that track *of looking for evidence*, I think we start to lose our way"

    Kemi Badenoch

    You should never look *for* evidence

    You should look *at* the evidence and determine if your hypothesis is true or not.

    Otherwise you are at risk of confirmation bias
    That's wrong. I spend a good chunk of my work time looking for and gathering evidence. When I have it, I then look at it, carefully.

    If we can never look for (or generate?) evidence then you're shutting down much of science and we're limited to systematic reviews (although the search part of that could be said to be looking for evidence) and maybe reviews of existing registries of data etc, but certainly no new data collection.

    On the Badenoch quote, I'd need to see the context to have a view on that. If she'd suggesting we just do what we 'know' to be right without being troubled by evidence, it's batty, but it might be something else.
    tbf I think she is being (somewhat) misquoted - 'of looking for evidence' wasn't in her answer, but was part of the question. A generous interpretation would be she is trying to say it's wrong to ignore anecdotes and individual experience just because it doesn't really (yet) count as hard evidence. Less generous is she is saying 'ignore the evidence'

    Context was her claim that 'lack of social integration' was a factor in the Southport murders.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 796

    Fucking hell.

    The entitlement of this tax dodging pensioner is off the scale.

    ‘I haven’t paid council tax in eight years – should I tell someone?’

    Ask A Lawyer: our reader is worried their local authority’s oversight could result in a hefty debt


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/tax/not-paid-council-tax-eight-years-tell-someone/

    My money would be on them not reminding the LA that they should be sent a council tax demand then when finally the LA sends them a demand countersuing for 8+ years of stress.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,156
    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @100glitterstars

    Possibly the quote of the week, the year, the century and for eternity.

    "The minute we start going down that track *of looking for evidence*, I think we start to lose our way"

    Kemi Badenoch

    You should never look *for* evidence

    You should look *at* the evidence and determine if your hypothesis is true or not.

    Otherwise you are at risk of confirmation bias
    That's wrong. I spend a good chunk of my work time looking for and gathering evidence. When I have it, I then look at it, carefully.

    If we can never look for (or generate?) evidence then you're shutting down much of science and we're limited to systematic reviews (although the search part of that could be said to be looking for evidence) and maybe reviews of existing registries of data etc, but certainly no new data collection.

    On the Badenoch quote, I'd need to see the context to have a view on that. If she'd suggesting we just do what we 'know' to be right without being troubled by evidence, it's batty, but it might be something else.
    I believe what she was talking about were those who believed something, and looked only for evidence to support that belief.

    It is, of course, an accusation which could just as easily be turned on her.
This discussion has been closed.