Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

When do parties lie? – politicalbetting.com

1356

Comments

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,958
    DougSeal said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, this from Robert Jenrick has really annoyed me.



    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1882684767742951702

    Are you suggesting that not all the problems in the criminal justice system are due to the new Labour administration?
    Look, I give Starmer until this July.

    The solution is easy, as with most things, he needs to hire more (well remunerated) lawyers to fix the problems.
    That’s only part of the problem - he also needs to get the courts open every day. Currently a lot only work part time due to lack of judges (and a host of other issues).
    Goodness me, you are surely not suggesting that *professionals* should work weekends? Whatever next? Perhaps you might also suggest something as outrageous as hospital consultants should work weekends, or maybe something even more morally abominable that they shouldn't be able do private work on the sly when they are meant to be working for the NHS?

    Whatever would the world come to if highly paid (and super superannuated) public "servants" had to work at weekends. Preposterous!
    Funny you should say that. TMI perhaps but I needed my ears vacuumed out this weekend - I had the flu lurgy earlier this month and my ears had been backed up ever since. Thought it too good to be true but found an independent audiologist who did Sunday morning appointments to compete with Specsavers et al and...I'm not exactly sure where I was going with this anecdote so ignore it. She did a great job though.

    I keep being asked if I want to be an employment tribunal judge. They are that desperate.
    So balancing a ball on one's nose and clapping your flippers together is a methodology to attain high office?

    Congratulations on the offer.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,217
    1 hour 30 min traffic jam on M11. We have just escaped from it. Google initially suggested we do a U turn on the M11, but didn't give any advice on how.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,233
    edited January 27
    TOPPING said:

    MattW said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, this from Robert Jenrick has really annoyed me.



    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1882684767742951702

    Are you suggesting that not all the problems in the criminal justice system are due to the new Labour administration?
    Look, I give Starmer until this July.

    The solution is easy, as with most things, he needs to hire more (well remunerated) lawyers to fix the problems.
    That’s only part of the problem - he also needs to get the courts open every day. Currently a lot only work part time due to lack of judges (and a host of other issues).
    Goodness me, you are surely not suggesting that *professionals* should work weekends? Whatever next? Perhaps you might also suggest something as outrageous as hospital consultants should work weekends, or maybe something even more morally abominable that they shouldn't be able do private work on the sly when they are meant to be working for the NHS?

    Whatever would the world come to if highly paid (and super superannuated) public "servants" had to work at weekends. Preposterous!
    At my local hospital, weekend clinics (including Sundays) have been a thing for years.
    Big difference between that and the normal paraphernalia and activities of a hospital operating over the weekend. Which they simply don't.
    I'm not clear what you mean by "normal paraphernalia and activities"? Of course all services have to be there for patients to be looked after 24-7, including shops and cafeteria, labs etc. They may not all be at weekday volume or service level, though.

    This is the pharmacy hours, for example:

    Dispensary:

    Monday to Friday: 9.00 am to 5.30 pm
    Weekends: 9.00 am to 1.00 pm
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,108
    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, this from Robert Jenrick has really annoyed me.



    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1882684767742951702

    Are you suggesting that not all the problems in the criminal justice system are due to the new Labour administration?
    Look, I give Starmer until this July.

    The solution is easy, as with most things, he needs to hire more (well remunerated) lawyers to fix the problems.
    That’s only part of the problem - he also needs to get the courts open every day. Currently a lot only work part time due to lack of judges (and a host of other issues).
    Goodness me, you are surely not suggesting that *professionals* should work weekends? Whatever next? Perhaps you might also suggest something as outrageous as hospital consultants should work weekends, or maybe something even more morally abominable that they shouldn't be able do private work on the sly when they are meant to be working for the NHS?

    Whatever would the world come to if highly paid (and super superannuated) public "servants" had to work at weekends. Preposterous!
    Funny you should say that. TMI perhaps but I needed my ears vacuumed out this weekend - I had the flu lurgy earlier this month and my ears had been backed up ever since. Thought it too good to be true but found an independent audiologist who did Sunday morning appointments to compete with Specsavers et al and...I'm not exactly sure where I was going with this anecdote so ignore it. She did a great job though.

    I keep being asked if I want to be an employment tribunal judge. They are that desperate.
    Last time I went to a hospital outpatient it was on a Saturday, which I didn't ask for (but was great as I was meeting friends later for lunch). And that was 2-3 years ago. And that was a real live specialist, not some imitation cheapo whatever they are called non-doctor folk.

    So the folk NF is berating for not working on Saturdays do work on Saturdays. Some of them, anyway.
    +1 - round here urgent referrals is a 7 day a week operation from 9am to roughly midnight. Mrs Eek was treated by them on a Friday evening, discharged at Saturday lunchtime and we visited them early for the following 2 weeks for dressings to be changed as the local district nurses were busy...
    Conversely, if you go in to hospital for treatment as an in-patient and they wrap up whatever they were treating you for on a Weds/Thurs you will stay in the hospital until Monday at the earliest because no one will be there to fill your prescriptions or discharge you.

    So there is that.
    Must have changed since my day then. Often stayed late on a Friday dispensing discharge prescriptions for late discharges.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,353
    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, this from Robert Jenrick has really annoyed me.



    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1882684767742951702

    Are you suggesting that not all the problems in the criminal justice system are due to the new Labour administration?
    Look, I give Starmer until this July.

    The solution is easy, as with most things, he needs to hire more (well remunerated) lawyers to fix the problems.
    That’s only part of the problem - he also needs to get the courts open every day. Currently a lot only work part time due to lack of judges (and a host of other issues).
    Goodness me, you are surely not suggesting that *professionals* should work weekends? Whatever next? Perhaps you might also suggest something as outrageous as hospital consultants should work weekends, or maybe something even more morally abominable that they shouldn't be able do private work on the sly when they are meant to be working for the NHS?

    Whatever would the world come to if highly paid (and super superannuated) public "servants" had to work at weekends. Preposterous!
    Funny you should say that. TMI perhaps but I needed my ears vacuumed out this weekend - I had the flu lurgy earlier this month and my ears had been backed up ever since. Thought it too good to be true but found an independent audiologist who did Sunday morning appointments to compete with Specsavers et al and...I'm not exactly sure where I was going with this anecdote so ignore it. She did a great job though.

    I keep being asked if I want to be an employment tribunal judge. They are that desperate.
    Last time I went to a hospital outpatient it was on a Saturday, which I didn't ask for (but was great as I was meeting friends later for lunch). And that was 2-3 years ago. And that was a real live specialist, not some imitation cheapo whatever they are called non-doctor folk.

    So the folk NF is berating for not working on Saturdays do work on Saturdays. Some of them, anyway.
    +1 - round here urgent referrals is a 7 day a week operation from 9am to roughly midnight. Mrs Eek was treated by them on a Friday evening, discharged at Saturday lunchtime and we visited them early for the following 2 weeks for dressings to be changed as the local district nurses were busy...
    Conversely, if you go in to hospital for treatment as an in-patient and they wrap up whatever they were treating you for on a Weds/Thurs you will stay in the hospital until Monday at the earliest because no one will be there to fill your prescriptions or discharge you.

    So there is that.
    Not where I live, you will be out the door that day...

    Pharmacy is open every day of the week and where that isn't the case the prescription can be sorted at my local pharmacy that is open late 7 days a week.

    Live up north it's great living in an area where people can afford to own a house...
    Sounds ghastly.

    Plus I'm sure you're right about people being discharged on time before or over the weekend absodoodle-doo.
    I know 4 people who have been in hospital over the past 2 years

    Discharge days were Saturday, Sunday, Sunday and Saturday,

    I remember the first Sunday one as they decided to discharge after the local pharmacy was closed so we had to wait until the hospital Pharmacist returned from getting her tea to get 2 days supply of some epilepsy drugs
    Or there are some facts to go with our anecdata

    https://transform.england.nhs.uk/improvement/100-day-discharge-challenge/ten-best-practice-initiatives/supporting-information/rapid-improvement-guide-to-improving-weekend-discharges/

    https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/delayed-discharges-from-hospital
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,920
    edited January 27
    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Yes the populist right are close to monopoly market leaders in lies and misinformation. The study is correct. We need to find a way to counter it. This will mean ignoring their disingenuous whining about "free speech".

    One of my difficulties with the conclusions in the article is that many terms like 'radical right' 'conservative' 'liberal' and so on have no fixed meaning. Unless you manage to clarify your terms with scalpel like accuracy you will end up with unrealistic conclusions.

    To take an obvious example, Reform may come under 'Radical Right' (don't know about here). but in many respects it is fairly old fashioned social democrat + nationalism + low net migration + unrealistic economics + appeal to the working class. There is nothing especially Radical or Right about any of this.
    I'd say anti-immigration is their USP. The other policies are wrapping paper.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,958
    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    7 turrets. Named after days of the week.

    There is a persistent rumour that she was equipped (briefly ) with 2 director systems - you need a minimum of 3 twin turrets to make director firing on any one target really work (ladder system etc). So Agincourt may have been the only battleship that could engage two different targets at the same time. Though there was some theoretical work done after centimetric radar accurate in range and bearing came in to make accurate firing from 1 turret possible - using the shell splashes on radar.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,233
    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    Correct - the names were more a smorgasboard of famous ships.

    They should have gone "woke" and named them after Flower Class corvettes.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,439
    TOPPING said:

    DougSeal said:

    Will anyone on the board be buying their local WH Smiths? I might put a bid in for the one in Canterbury where I spent a lot of the mid to late Eighties in the record department after school.

    What do you go to Smiths for. Used to be magazines but the range there is shockingly narrow. Not stamps (what?), the odd newspaper okay. Some trashly airport or top 20 novels plus Jamie Oliver's latest. So I'm not entirely sure what it's for. Hence, I'm out.
    Last time I went into a railway Smiths the books majored on cod psychology/self help/vaguely mindfulness stuff. Fortunately they still sell Private Eye.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,353

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, this from Robert Jenrick has really annoyed me.



    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1882684767742951702

    Are you suggesting that not all the problems in the criminal justice system are due to the new Labour administration?
    Look, I give Starmer until this July.

    The solution is easy, as with most things, he needs to hire more (well remunerated) lawyers to fix the problems.
    That’s only part of the problem - he also needs to get the courts open every day. Currently a lot only work part time due to lack of judges (and a host of other issues).
    Goodness me, you are surely not suggesting that *professionals* should work weekends? Whatever next? Perhaps you might also suggest something as outrageous as hospital consultants should work weekends, or maybe something even more morally abominable that they shouldn't be able do private work on the sly when they are meant to be working for the NHS?

    Whatever would the world come to if highly paid (and super superannuated) public "servants" had to work at weekends. Preposterous!
    Funny you should say that. TMI perhaps but I needed my ears vacuumed out this weekend - I had the flu lurgy earlier this month and my ears had been backed up ever since. Thought it too good to be true but found an independent audiologist who did Sunday morning appointments to compete with Specsavers et al and...I'm not exactly sure where I was going with this anecdote so ignore it. She did a great job though.

    I keep being asked if I want to be an employment tribunal judge. They are that desperate.
    Last time I went to a hospital outpatient it was on a Saturday, which I didn't ask for (but was great as I was meeting friends later for lunch). And that was 2-3 years ago. And that was a real live specialist, not some imitation cheapo whatever they are called non-doctor folk.

    So the folk NF is berating for not working on Saturdays do work on Saturdays. Some of them, anyway.
    +1 - round here urgent referrals is a 7 day a week operation from 9am to roughly midnight. Mrs Eek was treated by them on a Friday evening, discharged at Saturday lunchtime and we visited them early for the following 2 weeks for dressings to be changed as the local district nurses were busy...
    Conversely, if you go in to hospital for treatment as an in-patient and they wrap up whatever they were treating you for on a Weds/Thurs you will stay in the hospital until Monday at the earliest because no one will be there to fill your prescriptions or discharge you.

    So there is that.
    Must have changed since my day then. Often stayed late on a Friday dispensing discharge prescriptions for late discharges.
    Much has likely changed since your days I have no doubt.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,920
    TOPPING said:

    DougSeal said:

    Will anyone on the board be buying their local WH Smiths? I might put a bid in for the one in Canterbury where I spent a lot of the mid to late Eighties in the record department after school.

    What do you go to Smiths for. Used to be magazines but the range there is shockingly narrow. Not stamps (what?), the odd newspaper okay. Some trashly airport or top 20 novels plus Jamie Oliver's latest. So I'm not entirely sure what it's for. Hence, I'm out.
    Toblerones. Right there by the till.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,141
    edited January 27
    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, this from Robert Jenrick has really annoyed me.



    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1882684767742951702

    Are you suggesting that not all the problems in the criminal justice system are due to the new Labour administration?
    Look, I give Starmer until this July.

    The solution is easy, as with most things, he needs to hire more (well remunerated) lawyers to fix the problems.
    That’s only part of the problem - he also needs to get the courts open every day. Currently a lot only work part time due to lack of judges (and a host of other issues).
    Goodness me, you are surely not suggesting that *professionals* should work weekends? Whatever next? Perhaps you might also suggest something as outrageous as hospital consultants should work weekends, or maybe something even more morally abominable that they shouldn't be able do private work on the sly when they are meant to be working for the NHS?

    Whatever would the world come to if highly paid (and super superannuated) public "servants" had to work at weekends. Preposterous!
    Funny you should say that. TMI perhaps but I needed my ears vacuumed out this weekend - I had the flu lurgy earlier this month and my ears had been backed up ever since. Thought it too good to be true but found an independent audiologist who did Sunday morning appointments to compete with Specsavers et al and...I'm not exactly sure where I was going with this anecdote so ignore it. She did a great job though.

    I keep being asked if I want to be an employment tribunal judge. They are that desperate.
    Last time I went to a hospital outpatient it was on a Saturday, which I didn't ask for (but was great as I was meeting friends later for lunch). And that was 2-3 years ago. And that was a real live specialist, not some imitation cheapo whatever they are called non-doctor folk.

    So the folk NF is berating for not working on Saturdays do work on Saturdays. Some of them, anyway.
    +1 - round here urgent referrals is a 7 day a week operation from 9am to roughly midnight. Mrs Eek was treated by them on a Friday evening, discharged at Saturday lunchtime and we visited them early for the following 2 weeks for dressings to be changed as the local district nurses were busy...
    Conversely, if you go in to hospital for treatment as an in-patient and they wrap up whatever they were treating you for on a Weds/Thurs you will stay in the hospital until Monday at the earliest because no one will be there to fill your prescriptions or discharge you.

    So there is that.
    Not where I live, you will be out the door that day...

    Pharmacy is open every day of the week and where that isn't the case the prescription can be sorted at my local pharmacy that is open late 7 days a week.

    Live up north it's great living in an area where people can afford to own a house...
    Sounds ghastly.

    Plus I'm sure you're right about people being discharged on time before or over the weekend absodoodle-doo.
    I know 4 people who have been in hospital over the past 2 years

    Discharge days were Saturday, Sunday, Sunday and Saturday,

    I remember the first Sunday one as they decided to discharge after the local pharmacy was closed so we had to wait until the hospital Pharmacist returned from getting her tea to get 2 days supply of some epilepsy drugs
    Or there are some facts to go with our anecdata

    https://transform.england.nhs.uk/improvement/100-day-discharge-challenge/ten-best-practice-initiatives/supporting-information/rapid-improvement-guide-to-improving-weekend-discharges/

    https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/delayed-discharges-from-hospital
    I do worry about your reading comprehension skills

    The first one is reporting best practice which some places will have implemented and some haven’t

    The second one talks about delays with an emphasis on those people who have been in hospital for over 21 days. I don’t think that has much to do with weekends and everything to do with delayed discharge for patients that need additional care for a short while

    So I don’t think either of those things are that relevant to the argument you are trying to make
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,373
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    THIS should get the Oscar. Keir Starmer and Donald Trump share a flat.

    https://x.com/boldyboy1975/status/1883686356549034186?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Who is the guy at the end meant to be?
    Matt Berry. Laszlo.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=872_7q9tqxw
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,612
    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    Correct - the names were more a smorgasboard of famous ships.

    They should have gone "woke" and named them after Flower Class corvettes.
    The antithesis of "woke" would be a class of ship named after fox-hunts - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunt-class_destroyer
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,108
    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, this from Robert Jenrick has really annoyed me.



    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1882684767742951702

    Are you suggesting that not all the problems in the criminal justice system are due to the new Labour administration?
    Look, I give Starmer until this July.

    The solution is easy, as with most things, he needs to hire more (well remunerated) lawyers to fix the problems.
    That’s only part of the problem - he also needs to get the courts open every day. Currently a lot only work part time due to lack of judges (and a host of other issues).
    Goodness me, you are surely not suggesting that *professionals* should work weekends? Whatever next? Perhaps you might also suggest something as outrageous as hospital consultants should work weekends, or maybe something even more morally abominable that they shouldn't be able do private work on the sly when they are meant to be working for the NHS?

    Whatever would the world come to if highly paid (and super superannuated) public "servants" had to work at weekends. Preposterous!
    Funny you should say that. TMI perhaps but I needed my ears vacuumed out this weekend - I had the flu lurgy earlier this month and my ears had been backed up ever since. Thought it too good to be true but found an independent audiologist who did Sunday morning appointments to compete with Specsavers et al and...I'm not exactly sure where I was going with this anecdote so ignore it. She did a great job though.

    I keep being asked if I want to be an employment tribunal judge. They are that desperate.
    Last time I went to a hospital outpatient it was on a Saturday, which I didn't ask for (but was great as I was meeting friends later for lunch). And that was 2-3 years ago. And that was a real live specialist, not some imitation cheapo whatever they are called non-doctor folk.

    So the folk NF is berating for not working on Saturdays do work on Saturdays. Some of them, anyway.
    +1 - round here urgent referrals is a 7 day a week operation from 9am to roughly midnight. Mrs Eek was treated by them on a Friday evening, discharged at Saturday lunchtime and we visited them early for the following 2 weeks for dressings to be changed as the local district nurses were busy...
    Conversely, if you go in to hospital for treatment as an in-patient and they wrap up whatever they were treating you for on a Weds/Thurs you will stay in the hospital until Monday at the earliest because no one will be there to fill your prescriptions or discharge you.

    So there is that.
    Not where I live, you will be out the door that day...

    Pharmacy is open every day of the week and where that isn't the case the prescription can be sorted at my local pharmacy that is open late 7 days a week.

    Live up north it's great living in an area where people can afford to own a house...
    Sounds ghastly.

    Plus I'm sure you're right about people being discharged on time before or over the weekend absodoodle-doo.
    I know 4 people who have been in hospital over the past 2 years

    Discharge days were Saturday, Sunday, Sunday and Saturday,

    I remember the first Sunday one as they decided to discharge after the local pharmacy was closed so we had to wait until the hospital Pharmacist returned from getting her tea to get 2 days supply of some epilepsy drugs
    Or there are some facts to go with our anecdata

    https://transform.england.nhs.uk/improvement/100-day-discharge-challenge/ten-best-practice-initiatives/supporting-information/rapid-improvement-guide-to-improving-weekend-discharges/

    https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/delayed-discharges-from-hospital
    I recall being on duty on a Sunday in a hospital pharmacy and eventually telling a ward sister "if you stop ringing down every five minutes I'll have a chance to sort out your patients take-home medications!"
    About six wards were doing that, and I was alone in the dispensary.
    I must admit that shortly afterwards we increased the Sunday staffing.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,404

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    7 turrets. Named after days of the week.

    There is a persistent rumour that she was equipped (briefly ) with 2 director systems - you need a minimum of 3 twin turrets to make director firing on any one target really work (ladder system etc). So Agincourt may have been the only battleship that could engage two different targets at the same time. Though there was some theoretical work done after centimetric radar accurate in range and bearing came in to make accurate firing from 1 turret possible - using the shell splashes on radar.
    Of course, yes, 7: thanks.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,958
    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    Correct - the names were more a smorgasboard of famous ships.

    They should have gone "woke" and named them after Flower Class corvettes.
    Which was the French ship of the line, which fought so well before being captured, that there was a tradition in RN service of respecting the place on board where the French Captain died?
  • eekeek Posts: 29,141
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, this from Robert Jenrick has really annoyed me.



    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1882684767742951702

    Are you suggesting that not all the problems in the criminal justice system are due to the new Labour administration?
    Look, I give Starmer until this July.

    The solution is easy, as with most things, he needs to hire more (well remunerated) lawyers to fix the problems.
    That’s only part of the problem - he also needs to get the courts open every day. Currently a lot only work part time due to lack of judges (and a host of other issues).
    Goodness me, you are surely not suggesting that *professionals* should work weekends? Whatever next? Perhaps you might also suggest something as outrageous as hospital consultants should work weekends, or maybe something even more morally abominable that they shouldn't be able do private work on the sly when they are meant to be working for the NHS?

    Whatever would the world come to if highly paid (and super superannuated) public "servants" had to work at weekends. Preposterous!
    Funny you should say that. TMI perhaps but I needed my ears vacuumed out this weekend - I had the flu lurgy earlier this month and my ears had been backed up ever since. Thought it too good to be true but found an independent audiologist who did Sunday morning appointments to compete with Specsavers et al and...I'm not exactly sure where I was going with this anecdote so ignore it. She did a great job though.

    I keep being asked if I want to be an employment tribunal judge. They are that desperate.
    Last time I went to a hospital outpatient it was on a Saturday, which I didn't ask for (but was great as I was meeting friends later for lunch). And that was 2-3 years ago. And that was a real live specialist, not some imitation cheapo whatever they are called non-doctor folk.

    So the folk NF is berating for not working on Saturdays do work on Saturdays. Some of them, anyway.
    +1 - round here urgent referrals is a 7 day a week operation from 9am to roughly midnight. Mrs Eek was treated by them on a Friday evening, discharged at Saturday lunchtime and we visited them early for the following 2 weeks for dressings to be changed as the local district nurses were busy...
    Conversely, if you go in to hospital for treatment as an in-patient and they wrap up whatever they were treating you for on a Weds/Thurs you will stay in the hospital until Monday at the earliest because no one will be there to fill your prescriptions or discharge you.

    So there is that.
    Must have changed since my day then. Often stayed late on a Friday dispensing discharge prescriptions for late discharges.
    Much has likely changed since your days I have no doubt.
    And your argument is that it’s got worse (but can’t provide evidence to back up you statement) while I have anecdotal evidence that round here it’s half decent
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,836
    edited January 27
    algarkirk said:

    TOPPING said:

    DougSeal said:

    Will anyone on the board be buying their local WH Smiths? I might put a bid in for the one in Canterbury where I spent a lot of the mid to late Eighties in the record department after school.

    What do you go to Smiths for. Used to be magazines but the range there is shockingly narrow. Not stamps (what?), the odd newspaper okay. Some trashly airport or top 20 novels plus Jamie Oliver's latest. So I'm not entirely sure what it's for. Hence, I'm out.
    Last time I went into a railway Smiths the books majored on cod psychology/self help/vaguely mindfulness stuff. Fortunately they still sell Private Eye.
    WH smiths perfect the art of charging three times as much for their stock and then bundle it together in a "offer" of buy two (really overpriced) items for a bit less than double . Its the only shop I feel insulted in without anybody speaking to me
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,233
    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Yes the populist right are close to monopoly market leaders in lies and misinformation. The study is correct. We need to find a way to counter it. This will mean ignoring their disingenuous whining about "free speech".

    One of my difficulties with the conclusions in the article is that many terms like 'radical right' 'conservative' 'liberal' and so on have no fixed meaning. Unless you manage to clarify your terms with scalpel like accuracy you will end up with unrealistic conclusions.

    To take an obvious example, Reform may come under 'Radical Right' (don't know about here). but in many respects it is fairly old fashioned social democrat + nationalism + low net migration + unrealistic economics + appeal to the working class. There is nothing especially Radical or Right about any of this.
    The terminology question is important imo, because lack of provision allows obfuscation. Without applying any term to RefUK on this occasion (I would want to argue for my choice), we have eg:

    "During the recent General Election campaign for example, the media used a dizzying array of terms to describe Reform UK, variously calling the party “right-wing populist”, “classically right wing”, merely “populist”, or increasingly, the never defined term “hard right.” Reform UK leader Nigel Farage himself is described as everything from a “bog-standard Essex Man Thatcherite” to a “a renegade nationalist conservative.

    In March this year, apparently after being contacted by lawyers acting for then-leader Richard Tice, the BBC issued a correction and apologised to Reform UK for calling the party far right. Tice then stated that they were “also in touch with other news organisations” for using the term, which he claimed was “defamatory and libellous”.
    ...
    In reality, ‘far right’ is an umbrella term, and while useful, it is not a monolith which is why academics and practitioners split it further into its constituent parts.
    ...
    Cas Mudde, the leading social scientist in the field, divides it into the radical right and the extreme far right. He explains that the radical right, “accepts the essence of democracy, but opposes fundamental elements of liberal democracy, most notably minority rights, rule of law, and separation of powers”.


    The Hope not Hate page this comes from is helpful for clarification:
    https://hopenothate.org.uk/2024/08/29/call-them-what-they-are/

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,108
    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, this from Robert Jenrick has really annoyed me.



    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1882684767742951702

    Are you suggesting that not all the problems in the criminal justice system are due to the new Labour administration?
    Look, I give Starmer until this July.

    The solution is easy, as with most things, he needs to hire more (well remunerated) lawyers to fix the problems.
    That’s only part of the problem - he also needs to get the courts open every day. Currently a lot only work part time due to lack of judges (and a host of other issues).
    Goodness me, you are surely not suggesting that *professionals* should work weekends? Whatever next? Perhaps you might also suggest something as outrageous as hospital consultants should work weekends, or maybe something even more morally abominable that they shouldn't be able do private work on the sly when they are meant to be working for the NHS?

    Whatever would the world come to if highly paid (and super superannuated) public "servants" had to work at weekends. Preposterous!
    Funny you should say that. TMI perhaps but I needed my ears vacuumed out this weekend - I had the flu lurgy earlier this month and my ears had been backed up ever since. Thought it too good to be true but found an independent audiologist who did Sunday morning appointments to compete with Specsavers et al and...I'm not exactly sure where I was going with this anecdote so ignore it. She did a great job though.

    I keep being asked if I want to be an employment tribunal judge. They are that desperate.
    Last time I went to a hospital outpatient it was on a Saturday, which I didn't ask for (but was great as I was meeting friends later for lunch). And that was 2-3 years ago. And that was a real live specialist, not some imitation cheapo whatever they are called non-doctor folk.

    So the folk NF is berating for not working on Saturdays do work on Saturdays. Some of them, anyway.
    +1 - round here urgent referrals is a 7 day a week operation from 9am to roughly midnight. Mrs Eek was treated by them on a Friday evening, discharged at Saturday lunchtime and we visited them early for the following 2 weeks for dressings to be changed as the local district nurses were busy...
    Conversely, if you go in to hospital for treatment as an in-patient and they wrap up whatever they were treating you for on a Weds/Thurs you will stay in the hospital until Monday at the earliest because no one will be there to fill your prescriptions or discharge you.

    So there is that.
    Must have changed since my day then. Often stayed late on a Friday dispensing discharge prescriptions for late discharges.
    Much has likely changed since your days I have no doubt.
    And your argument is that it’s got worse (but can’t provide evidence to back up you statement) while I have anecdotal evidence that round here it’s half decent
    Yes; my experience is a LONG time ago now, but my more recent experience as consumer of health care is that the staff are, generally speaking, kind and helpful.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,353
    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, this from Robert Jenrick has really annoyed me.



    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1882684767742951702

    Are you suggesting that not all the problems in the criminal justice system are due to the new Labour administration?
    Look, I give Starmer until this July.

    The solution is easy, as with most things, he needs to hire more (well remunerated) lawyers to fix the problems.
    That’s only part of the problem - he also needs to get the courts open every day. Currently a lot only work part time due to lack of judges (and a host of other issues).
    Goodness me, you are surely not suggesting that *professionals* should work weekends? Whatever next? Perhaps you might also suggest something as outrageous as hospital consultants should work weekends, or maybe something even more morally abominable that they shouldn't be able do private work on the sly when they are meant to be working for the NHS?

    Whatever would the world come to if highly paid (and super superannuated) public "servants" had to work at weekends. Preposterous!
    Funny you should say that. TMI perhaps but I needed my ears vacuumed out this weekend - I had the flu lurgy earlier this month and my ears had been backed up ever since. Thought it too good to be true but found an independent audiologist who did Sunday morning appointments to compete with Specsavers et al and...I'm not exactly sure where I was going with this anecdote so ignore it. She did a great job though.

    I keep being asked if I want to be an employment tribunal judge. They are that desperate.
    Last time I went to a hospital outpatient it was on a Saturday, which I didn't ask for (but was great as I was meeting friends later for lunch). And that was 2-3 years ago. And that was a real live specialist, not some imitation cheapo whatever they are called non-doctor folk.

    So the folk NF is berating for not working on Saturdays do work on Saturdays. Some of them, anyway.
    +1 - round here urgent referrals is a 7 day a week operation from 9am to roughly midnight. Mrs Eek was treated by them on a Friday evening, discharged at Saturday lunchtime and we visited them early for the following 2 weeks for dressings to be changed as the local district nurses were busy...
    Conversely, if you go in to hospital for treatment as an in-patient and they wrap up whatever they were treating you for on a Weds/Thurs you will stay in the hospital until Monday at the earliest because no one will be there to fill your prescriptions or discharge you.

    So there is that.
    Not where I live, you will be out the door that day...

    Pharmacy is open every day of the week and where that isn't the case the prescription can be sorted at my local pharmacy that is open late 7 days a week.

    Live up north it's great living in an area where people can afford to own a house...
    Sounds ghastly.

    Plus I'm sure you're right about people being discharged on time before or over the weekend absodoodle-doo.
    I know 4 people who have been in hospital over the past 2 years

    Discharge days were Saturday, Sunday, Sunday and Saturday,

    I remember the first Sunday one as they decided to discharge after the local pharmacy was closed so we had to wait until the hospital Pharmacist returned from getting her tea to get 2 days supply of some epilepsy drugs
    Or there are some facts to go with our anecdata

    https://transform.england.nhs.uk/improvement/100-day-discharge-challenge/ten-best-practice-initiatives/supporting-information/rapid-improvement-guide-to-improving-weekend-discharges/

    https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/delayed-discharges-from-hospital
    I do worry about your reading comprehension skills

    The first one is reporting best practice which some places will have implemented and some haven’t

    The second one talks about delays with an emphasis on those people who have been in hospital for over 21 days. I don’t think that has much to do with weekends and everything to do with delayed discharge for patients that need additional care for a short while

    So I don’t think either of those things are that relevant to the argument you are trying to make
    And I yours. Weekend discharges are 40% lower than weekday discharges and are of a sufficient problem that papers are written about them. By the NHS.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,208

    algarkirk said:

    TOPPING said:

    DougSeal said:

    Will anyone on the board be buying their local WH Smiths? I might put a bid in for the one in Canterbury where I spent a lot of the mid to late Eighties in the record department after school.

    What do you go to Smiths for. Used to be magazines but the range there is shockingly narrow. Not stamps (what?), the odd newspaper okay. Some trashly airport or top 20 novels plus Jamie Oliver's latest. So I'm not entirely sure what it's for. Hence, I'm out.
    Last time I went into a railway Smiths the books majored on cod psychology/self help/vaguely mindfulness stuff. Fortunately they still sell Private Eye.
    WH smiths perfect the art of charging three times as much for their stock and then bundle it together in a buy two (really overpriced) items for a bit less than double . Its the only shop I feel insulted in without nobody speaking to me
    I forget how much they tried to charge me for a bottle of water at Victoria Station on a hot day, but it was absolute extortion. They are nothing to do with the WH Smiths of old.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,353
    edited January 27
    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, this from Robert Jenrick has really annoyed me.



    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1882684767742951702

    Are you suggesting that not all the problems in the criminal justice system are due to the new Labour administration?
    Look, I give Starmer until this July.

    The solution is easy, as with most things, he needs to hire more (well remunerated) lawyers to fix the problems.
    That’s only part of the problem - he also needs to get the courts open every day. Currently a lot only work part time due to lack of judges (and a host of other issues).
    Goodness me, you are surely not suggesting that *professionals* should work weekends? Whatever next? Perhaps you might also suggest something as outrageous as hospital consultants should work weekends, or maybe something even more morally abominable that they shouldn't be able do private work on the sly when they are meant to be working for the NHS?

    Whatever would the world come to if highly paid (and super superannuated) public "servants" had to work at weekends. Preposterous!
    Funny you should say that. TMI perhaps but I needed my ears vacuumed out this weekend - I had the flu lurgy earlier this month and my ears had been backed up ever since. Thought it too good to be true but found an independent audiologist who did Sunday morning appointments to compete with Specsavers et al and...I'm not exactly sure where I was going with this anecdote so ignore it. She did a great job though.

    I keep being asked if I want to be an employment tribunal judge. They are that desperate.
    Last time I went to a hospital outpatient it was on a Saturday, which I didn't ask for (but was great as I was meeting friends later for lunch). And that was 2-3 years ago. And that was a real live specialist, not some imitation cheapo whatever they are called non-doctor folk.

    So the folk NF is berating for not working on Saturdays do work on Saturdays. Some of them, anyway.
    +1 - round here urgent referrals is a 7 day a week operation from 9am to roughly midnight. Mrs Eek was treated by them on a Friday evening, discharged at Saturday lunchtime and we visited them early for the following 2 weeks for dressings to be changed as the local district nurses were busy...
    Conversely, if you go in to hospital for treatment as an in-patient and they wrap up whatever they were treating you for on a Weds/Thurs you will stay in the hospital until Monday at the earliest because no one will be there to fill your prescriptions or discharge you.

    So there is that.
    Must have changed since my day then. Often stayed late on a Friday dispensing discharge prescriptions for late discharges.
    Much has likely changed since your days I have no doubt.
    And your argument is that it’s got worse (but can’t provide evidence to back up you statement) while I have anecdotal evidence that round here it’s half decent
    NHS England has written a paper specifically designed to address the low rate of weekend discharges. I mean it doesn't get less anecdotal than that.

    But I'm delighted your four mates were chucked out on time.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,397
    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    Achilles is quite a venerable ship name, with some form against the French. This one saw service at Belleisle and Le Havre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Achilles_(1757)?wprov=sfla1
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,237
    edited January 27
    DougSeal said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    Correct - the names were more a smorgasboard of famous ships.

    They should have gone "woke" and named them after Flower Class corvettes.
    The antithesis of "woke" would be a class of ship named after fox-hunts - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunt-class_destroyer
    Iain Bank's Culture used to have good names for their warships - something like 'Frank Exchange of Views' would work well for a sub.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,353

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, this from Robert Jenrick has really annoyed me.



    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1882684767742951702

    Are you suggesting that not all the problems in the criminal justice system are due to the new Labour administration?
    Look, I give Starmer until this July.

    The solution is easy, as with most things, he needs to hire more (well remunerated) lawyers to fix the problems.
    That’s only part of the problem - he also needs to get the courts open every day. Currently a lot only work part time due to lack of judges (and a host of other issues).
    Goodness me, you are surely not suggesting that *professionals* should work weekends? Whatever next? Perhaps you might also suggest something as outrageous as hospital consultants should work weekends, or maybe something even more morally abominable that they shouldn't be able do private work on the sly when they are meant to be working for the NHS?

    Whatever would the world come to if highly paid (and super superannuated) public "servants" had to work at weekends. Preposterous!
    Funny you should say that. TMI perhaps but I needed my ears vacuumed out this weekend - I had the flu lurgy earlier this month and my ears had been backed up ever since. Thought it too good to be true but found an independent audiologist who did Sunday morning appointments to compete with Specsavers et al and...I'm not exactly sure where I was going with this anecdote so ignore it. She did a great job though.

    I keep being asked if I want to be an employment tribunal judge. They are that desperate.
    Last time I went to a hospital outpatient it was on a Saturday, which I didn't ask for (but was great as I was meeting friends later for lunch). And that was 2-3 years ago. And that was a real live specialist, not some imitation cheapo whatever they are called non-doctor folk.

    So the folk NF is berating for not working on Saturdays do work on Saturdays. Some of them, anyway.
    +1 - round here urgent referrals is a 7 day a week operation from 9am to roughly midnight. Mrs Eek was treated by them on a Friday evening, discharged at Saturday lunchtime and we visited them early for the following 2 weeks for dressings to be changed as the local district nurses were busy...
    Conversely, if you go in to hospital for treatment as an in-patient and they wrap up whatever they were treating you for on a Weds/Thurs you will stay in the hospital until Monday at the earliest because no one will be there to fill your prescriptions or discharge you.

    So there is that.
    Not where I live, you will be out the door that day...

    Pharmacy is open every day of the week and where that isn't the case the prescription can be sorted at my local pharmacy that is open late 7 days a week.

    Live up north it's great living in an area where people can afford to own a house...
    Sounds ghastly.

    Plus I'm sure you're right about people being discharged on time before or over the weekend absodoodle-doo.
    I know 4 people who have been in hospital over the past 2 years

    Discharge days were Saturday, Sunday, Sunday and Saturday,

    I remember the first Sunday one as they decided to discharge after the local pharmacy was closed so we had to wait until the hospital Pharmacist returned from getting her tea to get 2 days supply of some epilepsy drugs
    Or there are some facts to go with our anecdata

    https://transform.england.nhs.uk/improvement/100-day-discharge-challenge/ten-best-practice-initiatives/supporting-information/rapid-improvement-guide-to-improving-weekend-discharges/

    https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/delayed-discharges-from-hospital
    I recall being on duty on a Sunday in a hospital pharmacy and eventually telling a ward sister "if you stop ringing down every five minutes I'll have a chance to sort out your patients take-home medications!"
    About six wards were doing that, and I was alone in the dispensary.
    I must admit that shortly afterwards we increased the Sunday staffing.
    I think you have correctly identified but one of the causes of delayed discharges.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,443

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    THIS should get the Oscar. Keir Starmer and Donald Trump share a flat.

    https://x.com/boldyboy1975/status/1883686356549034186?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Who is the guy at the end meant to be?
    Matt Berry. Laszlo.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=872_7q9tqxw
    Oh, thank you.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,404
    edited January 27

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    Achilles is quite a venerable ship name, with some form against the French. This one saw service at Belleisle and Le Havre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Achilles_(1757)?wprov=sfla1
    Oh, yes, I'm not knocking it. But indeed quite the opposite: also because a later Achilles did so well against the Graf Spee of course. But why not her battle-consort Ajax for another name? Or Nelson, Rodney, Hood ... if they are calling one of them Anson? It's not so much a smorgaboard as a technicolor yawn of naming, the Astute class.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,612
    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    DeepSeek under cyber attack after sending Nvidia down nearly 20% on the stock price today

    Well it has just created for me the outline of a 7 story, 46 episode, season of Dr Who based on the early Troughton years, given me a recipe for Fig wine made from dried figs and apple wine made from eating apples. Done rather well at it too.
    Doesn't the apple wine smell of urine, just a bit?
    I’ll let you know in a few months.

    I’ve made cider from produce from a few local wild apple trees with mixed results.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,373
    MattW said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Yes the populist right are close to monopoly market leaders in lies and misinformation. The study is correct. We need to find a way to counter it. This will mean ignoring their disingenuous whining about "free speech".

    One of my difficulties with the conclusions in the article is that many terms like 'radical right' 'conservative' 'liberal' and so on have no fixed meaning. Unless you manage to clarify your terms with scalpel like accuracy you will end up with unrealistic conclusions.

    To take an obvious example, Reform may come under 'Radical Right' (don't know about here). but in many respects it is fairly old fashioned social democrat + nationalism + low net migration + unrealistic economics + appeal to the working class. There is nothing especially Radical or Right about any of this.
    The terminology question is important imo, because lack of provision allows obfuscation. Without applying any term to RefUK on this occasion (I would want to argue for my choice), we have eg:

    "During the recent General Election campaign for example, the media used a dizzying array of terms to describe Reform UK, variously calling the party “right-wing populist”, “classically right wing”, merely “populist”, or increasingly, the never defined term “hard right.” Reform UK leader Nigel Farage himself is described as everything from a “bog-standard Essex Man Thatcherite” to a “a renegade nationalist conservative.

    In March this year, apparently after being contacted by lawyers acting for then-leader Richard Tice, the BBC issued a correction and apologised to Reform UK for calling the party far right. Tice then stated that they were “also in touch with other news organisations” for using the term, which he claimed was “defamatory and libellous”.
    ...
    In reality, ‘far right’ is an umbrella term, and while useful, it is not a monolith which is why academics and practitioners split it further into its constituent parts.
    ...
    Cas Mudde, the leading social scientist in the field, divides it into the radical right and the extreme far right. He explains that the radical right, “accepts the essence of democracy, but opposes fundamental elements of liberal democracy, most notably minority rights, rule of law, and separation of powers”.


    The Hope not Hate page this comes from is helpful for clarification:
    https://hopenothate.org.uk/2024/08/29/call-them-what-they-are/

    Hope not hate are fascists I wouldn't put any credence in absolutely anything they had to say
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,108
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, this from Robert Jenrick has really annoyed me.



    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1882684767742951702

    Are you suggesting that not all the problems in the criminal justice system are due to the new Labour administration?
    Look, I give Starmer until this July.

    The solution is easy, as with most things, he needs to hire more (well remunerated) lawyers to fix the problems.
    That’s only part of the problem - he also needs to get the courts open every day. Currently a lot only work part time due to lack of judges (and a host of other issues).
    Goodness me, you are surely not suggesting that *professionals* should work weekends? Whatever next? Perhaps you might also suggest something as outrageous as hospital consultants should work weekends, or maybe something even more morally abominable that they shouldn't be able do private work on the sly when they are meant to be working for the NHS?

    Whatever would the world come to if highly paid (and super superannuated) public "servants" had to work at weekends. Preposterous!
    Funny you should say that. TMI perhaps but I needed my ears vacuumed out this weekend - I had the flu lurgy earlier this month and my ears had been backed up ever since. Thought it too good to be true but found an independent audiologist who did Sunday morning appointments to compete with Specsavers et al and...I'm not exactly sure where I was going with this anecdote so ignore it. She did a great job though.

    I keep being asked if I want to be an employment tribunal judge. They are that desperate.
    Last time I went to a hospital outpatient it was on a Saturday, which I didn't ask for (but was great as I was meeting friends later for lunch). And that was 2-3 years ago. And that was a real live specialist, not some imitation cheapo whatever they are called non-doctor folk.

    So the folk NF is berating for not working on Saturdays do work on Saturdays. Some of them, anyway.
    +1 - round here urgent referrals is a 7 day a week operation from 9am to roughly midnight. Mrs Eek was treated by them on a Friday evening, discharged at Saturday lunchtime and we visited them early for the following 2 weeks for dressings to be changed as the local district nurses were busy...
    Conversely, if you go in to hospital for treatment as an in-patient and they wrap up whatever they were treating you for on a Weds/Thurs you will stay in the hospital until Monday at the earliest because no one will be there to fill your prescriptions or discharge you.

    So there is that.
    Not where I live, you will be out the door that day...

    Pharmacy is open every day of the week and where that isn't the case the prescription can be sorted at my local pharmacy that is open late 7 days a week.

    Live up north it's great living in an area where people can afford to own a house...
    Sounds ghastly.

    Plus I'm sure you're right about people being discharged on time before or over the weekend absodoodle-doo.
    I know 4 people who have been in hospital over the past 2 years

    Discharge days were Saturday, Sunday, Sunday and Saturday,

    I remember the first Sunday one as they decided to discharge after the local pharmacy was closed so we had to wait until the hospital Pharmacist returned from getting her tea to get 2 days supply of some epilepsy drugs
    Or there are some facts to go with our anecdata

    https://transform.england.nhs.uk/improvement/100-day-discharge-challenge/ten-best-practice-initiatives/supporting-information/rapid-improvement-guide-to-improving-weekend-discharges/

    https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/delayed-discharges-from-hospital
    I recall being on duty on a Sunday in a hospital pharmacy and eventually telling a ward sister "if you stop ringing down every five minutes I'll have a chance to sort out your patients take-home medications!"
    About six wards were doing that, and I was alone in the dispensary.
    I must admit that shortly afterwards we increased the Sunday staffing.
    I think you have correctly identified but one of the causes of delayed discharges.
    Fair point. I'm unsure of the staffing situation in hospital pharmacies nowadays but, in my day, while some were fully staffed, that wasn't always the case. And, treading on dangerous ground, and again in my day, many mothers were 'unwilling' to work at weekends.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,233
    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Yes the populist right are close to monopoly market leaders in lies and misinformation. The study is correct. We need to find a way to counter it. This will mean ignoring their disingenuous whining about "free speech".

    One of my difficulties with the conclusions in the article is that many terms like 'radical right' 'conservative' 'liberal' and so on have no fixed meaning. Unless you manage to clarify your terms with scalpel like accuracy you will end up with unrealistic conclusions.

    To take an obvious example, Reform may come under 'Radical Right' (don't know about here). but in many respects it is fairly old fashioned social democrat + nationalism + low net migration + unrealistic economics + appeal to the working class. There is nothing especially Radical or Right about any of this.
    The terminology question is important imo, because lack of provision allows obfuscation. Without applying any term to RefUK on this occasion (I would want to argue for my choice), we have eg:

    "During the recent General Election campaign for example, the media used a dizzying array of terms to describe Reform UK, variously calling the party “right-wing populist”, “classically right wing”, merely “populist”, or increasingly, the never defined term “hard right.” Reform UK leader Nigel Farage himself is described as everything from a “bog-standard Essex Man Thatcherite” to a “a renegade nationalist conservative.

    In March this year, apparently after being contacted by lawyers acting for then-leader Richard Tice, the BBC issued a correction and apologised to Reform UK for calling the party far right. Tice then stated that they were “also in touch with other news organisations” for using the term, which he claimed was “defamatory and libellous”.
    ...
    In reality, ‘far right’ is an umbrella term, and while useful, it is not a monolith which is why academics and practitioners split it further into its constituent parts.
    ...
    Cas Mudde, the leading social scientist in the field, divides it into the radical right and the extreme far right. He explains that the radical right, “accepts the essence of democracy, but opposes fundamental elements of liberal democracy, most notably minority rights, rule of law, and separation of powers”.


    The Hope not Hate page this comes from is helpful for clarification:
    https://hopenothate.org.uk/2024/08/29/call-them-what-they-are/

    Hope not hate are fascists I wouldn't put any credence in absolutely anything they had to say
    BS.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,612
    Deepseek announces another open source AI tool. This one does pictures.

    https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/1883927276800336124?s=61
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,208
    edited January 27
    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Yes the populist right are close to monopoly market leaders in lies and misinformation. The study is correct. We need to find a way to counter it. This will mean ignoring their disingenuous whining about "free speech".

    One of my difficulties with the conclusions in the article is that many terms like 'radical right' 'conservative' 'liberal' and so on have no fixed meaning. Unless you manage to clarify your terms with scalpel like accuracy you will end up with unrealistic conclusions.

    To take an obvious example, Reform may come under 'Radical Right' (don't know about here). but in many respects it is fairly old fashioned social democrat + nationalism + low net migration + unrealistic economics + appeal to the working class. There is nothing especially Radical or Right about any of this.
    The terminology question is important imo, because lack of provision allows obfuscation. Without applying any term to RefUK on this occasion (I would want to argue for my choice), we have eg:

    "During the recent General Election campaign for example, the media used a dizzying array of terms to describe Reform UK, variously calling the party “right-wing populist”, “classically right wing”, merely “populist”, or increasingly, the never defined term “hard right.” Reform UK leader Nigel Farage himself is described as everything from a “bog-standard Essex Man Thatcherite” to a “a renegade nationalist conservative.

    In March this year, apparently after being contacted by lawyers acting for then-leader Richard Tice, the BBC issued a correction and apologised to Reform UK for calling the party far right. Tice then stated that they were “also in touch with other news organisations” for using the term, which he claimed was “defamatory and libellous”.
    ...
    In reality, ‘far right’ is an umbrella term, and while useful, it is not a monolith which is why academics and practitioners split it further into its constituent parts.
    ...
    Cas Mudde, the leading social scientist in the field, divides it into the radical right and the extreme far right. He explains that the radical right, “accepts the essence of democracy, but opposes fundamental elements of liberal democracy, most notably minority rights, rule of law, and separation of powers”.


    The Hope not Hate page this comes from is helpful for clarification:
    https://hopenothate.org.uk/2024/08/29/call-them-what-they-are/

    Hope not hate are fascists I wouldn't put any credence in absolutely anything they had to say
    But, but.. "Cas Mudde, the leading social scientist in the field"...!

    (I presume that's turdcastle in Spanish!?)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,404

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    Correct - the names were more a smorgasboard of famous ships.

    They should have gone "woke" and named them after Flower Class corvettes.
    Which was the French ship of the line, which fought so well before being captured, that there was a tradition in RN service of respecting the place on board where the French Captain died?
    Forgive me for checking, but it's not by any chance a misremembering of the Captain and his son on the Orient at the Nile against Nelson, and the poem being written about the Boy on the Burning Deck? Conflated with the famous plaque on the deck of Victory?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casabianca_(poem)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,486
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Omfg CONCLAVE is fucking ludicrous


    Are they really gonna give it the Oscar?!


    “Yes eet eez true. Ze holy father ‘e knew I ‘ave seven penises”

    Saw it a couple of weeks ago. The first half was quite good in terms of atmosphere.
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Omfg CONCLAVE is fucking ludicrous


    Are they really gonna give it the Oscar?!


    “Yes eet eez true. Ze holy father ‘e knew I ‘ave seven penises”

    Saw it a couple of weeks ago. The first half was quite good in terms of atmosphere.
    It’s a really weird movie. The cinematography is superb, the acting is excellent, the soundtrack is good - but the plot and the script get increasingly turgid and then risible and by the end it devolves into a bizarre and comical puddle of silly woke nonsense

    It’s been nommed for EIGHT Oscars which is not a sign of a healthy film industry. BAD
    To be fair, it's better than the dreadful musical about the sex change drug lord.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,443
    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Yes the populist right are close to monopoly market leaders in lies and misinformation. The study is correct. We need to find a way to counter it. This will mean ignoring their disingenuous whining about "free speech".

    One of my difficulties with the conclusions in the article is that many terms like 'radical right' 'conservative' 'liberal' and so on have no fixed meaning. Unless you manage to clarify your terms with scalpel like accuracy you will end up with unrealistic conclusions.

    To take an obvious example, Reform may come under 'Radical Right' (don't know about here). but in many respects it is fairly old fashioned social democrat + nationalism + low net migration + unrealistic economics + appeal to the working class. There is nothing especially Radical or Right about any of this.
    They're National Conservative (the European version, not the Anglophone one: remember Farage cut his teeth in EU politics). The Wiki article is here, but like the neo-feudalism article it's fucked up by having two similar but different concepts existing since Wiki was created.

    I wrote an entire article on how difficult it is to classify political parties: https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/01/07/classification/

    It is part of a continuing series of fine articles as wot I wrote below. Enjoy

    Chronicle of a Bet Foretold
    CBF1_EUDEPARTURE https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/03/24/viewcode-on-the-chronicle-of-a-bet-foretold/ 539
    CBF2_ALTERNATES https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/09/22/chronicle-of-a-bet-foretold-part-2/ 490
    CBF3_FINLAND https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/01/21/finland/ 383
    CBF4_THINGRUEL https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/07/02/chronicle-of-a-bet-foretold-thin-gruel/ 726

    The Ideas series
    IDE1_UKRAINE https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2022/05/02/why-ukraine-was-particularly-vulnerable/ 555
    IDE2_INTERMARIUM https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/01/29/the-intermarium/ 372
    IDE3_CEREMONIES https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/05/06/ceremonies/ 811
    IDE4_TRANSHUMANISM https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/04/07/transhumanism/ 501
    IDE5_HISTORY https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/04/21/the-history-of-gambling/ 359
    IDE5_SOLARPUNK https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/05/12/solarpunk/ 271
    IDE6_BLOB https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/09/28/the-blob/ 346
    IDE7_HELL https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/11/29/hell/ 559

    The Measurement series
    MEA1_CLASSIFICATION https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/01/07/classification/ 369
    MEA2_ELITES https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/01/13/elites/ 511
    MEA3_PARTIES https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/06/05/parties/ 2078

    Other
    REV1_BADBOYS https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/09/15/the-bad-boys-of-brexit-a-review/ 500
    REV2_NATIONALPOPULISM https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/10/06/national-populism-the-revolt-against-liberal-democracy-a-review/ 264

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,439
    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Yes the populist right are close to monopoly market leaders in lies and misinformation. The study is correct. We need to find a way to counter it. This will mean ignoring their disingenuous whining about "free speech".

    One of my difficulties with the conclusions in the article is that many terms like 'radical right' 'conservative' 'liberal' and so on have no fixed meaning. Unless you manage to clarify your terms with scalpel like accuracy you will end up with unrealistic conclusions.

    To take an obvious example, Reform may come under 'Radical Right' (don't know about here). but in many respects it is fairly old fashioned social democrat + nationalism + low net migration + unrealistic economics + appeal to the working class. There is nothing especially Radical or Right about any of this.
    I'd say anti-immigration is their USP. The other policies are wrapping paper.
    Not quite. They plan to win or do very well at the next GE. They would not do so without social democratic policies on the welfare state. Right Radicalism on healthcare being free at the point of delivery would kill their 1950s traditionalist agenda stone dead. There is nothing especially radical or right about low inward migration policies.

    Full disclosure: I am not trying to justify Reform. I won't vote for them. But I don't think their policy platform so far is either radical or right. It's just unrealistic and rubbish.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,373
    MattW said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Yes the populist right are close to monopoly market leaders in lies and misinformation. The study is correct. We need to find a way to counter it. This will mean ignoring their disingenuous whining about "free speech".

    One of my difficulties with the conclusions in the article is that many terms like 'radical right' 'conservative' 'liberal' and so on have no fixed meaning. Unless you manage to clarify your terms with scalpel like accuracy you will end up with unrealistic conclusions.

    To take an obvious example, Reform may come under 'Radical Right' (don't know about here). but in many respects it is fairly old fashioned social democrat + nationalism + low net migration + unrealistic economics + appeal to the working class. There is nothing especially Radical or Right about any of this.
    The terminology question is important imo, because lack of provision allows obfuscation. Without applying any term to RefUK on this occasion (I would want to argue for my choice), we have eg:

    "During the recent General Election campaign for example, the media used a dizzying array of terms to describe Reform UK, variously calling the party “right-wing populist”, “classically right wing”, merely “populist”, or increasingly, the never defined term “hard right.” Reform UK leader Nigel Farage himself is described as everything from a “bog-standard Essex Man Thatcherite” to a “a renegade nationalist conservative.

    In March this year, apparently after being contacted by lawyers acting for then-leader Richard Tice, the BBC issued a correction and apologised to Reform UK for calling the party far right. Tice then stated that they were “also in touch with other news organisations” for using the term, which he claimed was “defamatory and libellous”.
    ...
    In reality, ‘far right’ is an umbrella term, and while useful, it is not a monolith which is why academics and practitioners split it further into its constituent parts.
    ...
    Cas Mudde, the leading social scientist in the field, divides it into the radical right and the extreme far right. He explains that the radical right, “accepts the essence of democracy, but opposes fundamental elements of liberal democracy, most notably minority rights, rule of law, and separation of powers”.


    The Hope not Hate page this comes from is helpful for clarification:
    https://hopenothate.org.uk/2024/08/29/call-them-what-they-are/

    Hope not hate are fascists I wouldn't put any credence in absolutely anything they had to say
    BS.
    They like antifa support political violence against those who's view they disagree with and suppression of any expression of views they disagree with.....seems pretty fascist to me
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,404
    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    DeepSeek under cyber attack after sending Nvidia down nearly 20% on the stock price today

    Well it has just created for me the outline of a 7 story, 46 episode, season of Dr Who based on the early Troughton years, given me a recipe for Fig wine made from dried figs and apple wine made from eating apples. Done rather well at it too.
    Doesn't the apple wine smell of urine, just a bit?
    I’ll let you know in a few months.

    I’ve made cider from produce from a few local wild apple trees with mixed results.
    Sorry. Was a bad taste (!) joke on your ambiguous wording 'wine made from eating apples' that made me stop and reread it; ... I'm sure it's lovely!
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,373
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    Correct - the names were more a smorgasboard of famous ships.

    They should have gone "woke" and named them after Flower Class corvettes.
    Which was the French ship of the line, which fought so well before being captured, that there was a tradition in RN service of respecting the place on board where the French Captain died?
    Forgive me for checking, but it's not by any chance a misremembering of the Captain and his son on the Orient at the Nile against Nelson, and the poem being written about the Boy on the Burning Deck? Conflated with the famous plaque on the deck of Victory?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casabianca_(poem)
    When you put social before scientist you are demeaning science....social science is no different to astrology its practised by quacks
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,208
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Omfg CONCLAVE is fucking ludicrous


    Are they really gonna give it the Oscar?!


    “Yes eet eez true. Ze holy father ‘e knew I ‘ave seven penises”

    Saw it a couple of weeks ago. The first half was quite good in terms of atmosphere.
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Omfg CONCLAVE is fucking ludicrous


    Are they really gonna give it the Oscar?!


    “Yes eet eez true. Ze holy father ‘e knew I ‘ave seven penises”

    Saw it a couple of weeks ago. The first half was quite good in terms of atmosphere.
    It’s a really weird movie. The cinematography is superb, the acting is excellent, the soundtrack is good - but the plot and the script get increasingly turgid and then risible and by the end it devolves into a bizarre and comical puddle of silly woke nonsense

    It’s been nommed for EIGHT Oscars which is not a sign of a healthy film industry. BAD
    To be fair, it's better than the dreadful musical about the sex change drug lord.
    I quite like South Pacific.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,397
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    Achilles is quite a venerable ship name, with some form against the French. This one saw service at Belleisle and Le Havre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Achilles_(1757)?wprov=sfla1
    Oh, yes, I'm not knocking it. But indeed quite the opposite: also because a later Achilles did so well against the Graf Spee of course. But why not her battle-consort Ajax for another name? Or Nelson, Rodney, Hood ... if they are calling one of them Anson? It's not so much a smorgaboard as a technicolor yawn of naming, the Astute class.
    We'll, they all begin with A. Agamemnon is a good one. If they get onto B, Bellerophon might piss off the French. I'd like to see another Temeraire (which surprisingly was a British-built ship but named after a French prize)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,404
    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    Correct - the names were more a smorgasboard of famous ships.

    They should have gone "woke" and named them after Flower Class corvettes.
    Which was the French ship of the line, which fought so well before being captured, that there was a tradition in RN service of respecting the place on board where the French Captain died?
    Forgive me for checking, but it's not by any chance a misremembering of the Captain and his son on the Orient at the Nile against Nelson, and the poem being written about the Boy on the Burning Deck? Conflated with the famous plaque on the deck of Victory?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casabianca_(poem)
    When you put social before scientist you are demeaning science....social science is no different to astrology its practised by quacks
    Er, some mistake surely?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,539
    Taz said:

    Deepseek announces another open source AI tool. This one does pictures.

    https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/1883927276800336124?s=61

    It's going to be interesting seeing what images and videos come from Deepseek because OpenAI and Google have such strict guardrails on what they produce with their imaging AI and which prompts are allowable. Deepseek will have nowhere near the same level of sensitivity around these subjects.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,612
    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    DeepSeek under cyber attack after sending Nvidia down nearly 20% on the stock price today

    Well it has just created for me the outline of a 7 story, 46 episode, season of Dr Who based on the early Troughton years, given me a recipe for Fig wine made from dried figs and apple wine made from eating apples. Done rather well at it too.
    Doesn't the apple wine smell of urine, just a bit?
    I’ll let you know in a few months.

    I’ve made cider from produce from a few local wild apple trees with mixed results.
    Sorry. Was a bad taste (!) joke on your ambiguous wording 'wine made from eating apples' that made me stop and reread it; ... I'm sure it's lovely!
    I’m too literal. My wife always tells me. I struggle with cryptic crosswords. Now you’ve explained it it’s made me chuckle 😃
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,404

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    Achilles is quite a venerable ship name, with some form against the French. This one saw service at Belleisle and Le Havre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Achilles_(1757)?wprov=sfla1
    Oh, yes, I'm not knocking it. But indeed quite the opposite: also because a later Achilles did so well against the Graf Spee of course. But why not her battle-consort Ajax for another name? Or Nelson, Rodney, Hood ... if they are calling one of them Anson? It's not so much a smorgaboard as a technicolor yawn of naming, the Astute class.
    We'll, they all begin with A. Agamemnon is a good one. If they get onto B, Bellerophon might piss off the French. I'd like to see another Temeraire (which surprisingly was a British-built ship but named after a French prize)
    Oh, so they do. Right, just subs alone, we have A1 ..... A14. Er. Perhaps not. But there are plenty more A-submarine names ... though Andrew and Affray (infamous disaster) might get scratched.

    Amphion (P439/S39/S43) (laid down as Anchorite but name changed before launch)
    Astute (P447/S47/S45)
    Auriga (P419/S19/S69)
    Aurochs (P426/S26/S62)
    Alcide (P415/S15/S65)
    Alderney (P416/S16/S66)
    Alliance (P417/S17/S67)
    Ambush (P418/S18/S68)
    Anchorite (P422/S22/S64)
    Andrew (P423/S23/S63)
    Affray (P421)
    Aeneas (P427/S27/S72/SSG72)
    Alaric (P441/S41)
    Artemis (P449/S39/S49)
    Artful (P456/S56/S96)
    Acheron (P411/S11/S61)
    Ace (P414)
    Achates (P433)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,445
    MattW said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Yes the populist right are close to monopoly market leaders in lies and misinformation. The study is correct. We need to find a way to counter it. This will mean ignoring their disingenuous whining about "free speech".

    One of my difficulties with the conclusions in the article is that many terms like 'radical right' 'conservative' 'liberal' and so on have no fixed meaning. Unless you manage to clarify your terms with scalpel like accuracy you will end up with unrealistic conclusions.

    To take an obvious example, Reform may come under 'Radical Right' (don't know about here). but in many respects it is fairly old fashioned social democrat + nationalism + low net migration + unrealistic economics + appeal to the working class. There is nothing especially Radical or Right about any of this.
    The terminology question is important imo, because lack of provision allows obfuscation. Without applying any term to RefUK on this occasion (I would want to argue for my choice), we have eg:

    "During the recent General Election campaign for example, the media used a dizzying array of terms to describe Reform UK, variously calling the party “right-wing populist”, “classically right wing”, merely “populist”, or increasingly, the never defined term “hard right.” Reform UK leader Nigel Farage himself is described as everything from a “bog-standard Essex Man Thatcherite” to a “a renegade nationalist conservative.

    In March this year, apparently after being contacted by lawyers acting for then-leader Richard Tice, the BBC issued a correction and apologised to Reform UK for calling the party far right. Tice then stated that they were “also in touch with other news organisations” for using the term, which he claimed was “defamatory and libellous”.
    ...
    In reality, ‘far right’ is an umbrella term, and while useful, it is not a monolith which is why academics and practitioners split it further into its constituent parts.
    ...
    Cas Mudde, the leading social scientist in the field, divides it into the radical right and the extreme far right. He explains that the radical right, “accepts the essence of democracy, but opposes fundamental elements of liberal democracy, most notably minority rights, rule of law, and separation of powers”.


    The Hope not Hate page this comes from is helpful for clarification:
    https://hopenothate.org.uk/2024/08/29/call-them-what-they-are/

    Hope not hate are fascists I wouldn't put any credence in absolutely anything they had to say
    BS.
    Hope Not Hate are scum

    @Pagan2 is entirely right

    Get out of here with that shit
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,373
    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    Correct - the names were more a smorgasboard of famous ships.

    They should have gone "woke" and named them after Flower Class corvettes.
    Which was the French ship of the line, which fought so well before being captured, that there was a tradition in RN service of respecting the place on board where the French Captain died?
    Forgive me for checking, but it's not by any chance a misremembering of the Captain and his son on the Orient at the Nile against Nelson, and the poem being written about the Boy on the Burning Deck? Conflated with the famous plaque on the deck of Victory?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casabianca_(poem)
    When you put social before scientist you are demeaning science....social science is no different to astrology its practised by quacks
    Er, some mistake surely?
    No mistake people who study sociology are arseholes that add nothing to the world. They are universally wrong in thinking its a science of any description....its not its some wonky theories they have bought into
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,373
    edited January 27
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    Correct - the names were more a smorgasboard of famous ships.

    They should have gone "woke" and named them after Flower Class corvettes.
    Which was the French ship of the line, which fought so well before being captured, that there was a tradition in RN service of respecting the place on board where the French Captain died?
    Forgive me for checking, but it's not by any chance a misremembering of the Captain and his son on the Orient at the Nile against Nelson, and the poem being written about the Boy on the Burning Deck? Conflated with the famous plaque on the deck of Victory?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casabianca_(poem)
    Shades also of 16-year-old ‘Boy’ Cornwell VC, who died at the Battle of Jutland after remaining in position, and buried in Sunil's neck of the woods.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Cornwell
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,445
    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    Deepseek announces another open source AI tool. This one does pictures.

    https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/1883927276800336124?s=61

    It's going to be interesting seeing what images and videos come from Deepseek because OpenAI and Google have such strict guardrails on what they produce with their imaging AI and which prompts are allowable. Deepseek will have nowhere near the same level of sensitivity around these subjects.
    DeepSeek is woke because it’s based on the OpenAI training data. It often refers to itself as “ChatGPT”
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,373
    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Yes the populist right are close to monopoly market leaders in lies and misinformation. The study is correct. We need to find a way to counter it. This will mean ignoring their disingenuous whining about "free speech".

    One of my difficulties with the conclusions in the article is that many terms like 'radical right' 'conservative' 'liberal' and so on have no fixed meaning. Unless you manage to clarify your terms with scalpel like accuracy you will end up with unrealistic conclusions.

    To take an obvious example, Reform may come under 'Radical Right' (don't know about here). but in many respects it is fairly old fashioned social democrat + nationalism + low net migration + unrealistic economics + appeal to the working class. There is nothing especially Radical or Right about any of this.
    The terminology question is important imo, because lack of provision allows obfuscation. Without applying any term to RefUK on this occasion (I would want to argue for my choice), we have eg:

    "During the recent General Election campaign for example, the media used a dizzying array of terms to describe Reform UK, variously calling the party “right-wing populist”, “classically right wing”, merely “populist”, or increasingly, the never defined term “hard right.” Reform UK leader Nigel Farage himself is described as everything from a “bog-standard Essex Man Thatcherite” to a “a renegade nationalist conservative.

    In March this year, apparently after being contacted by lawyers acting for then-leader Richard Tice, the BBC issued a correction and apologised to Reform UK for calling the party far right. Tice then stated that they were “also in touch with other news organisations” for using the term, which he claimed was “defamatory and libellous”.
    ...
    In reality, ‘far right’ is an umbrella term, and while useful, it is not a monolith which is why academics and practitioners split it further into its constituent parts.
    ...
    Cas Mudde, the leading social scientist in the field, divides it into the radical right and the extreme far right. He explains that the radical right, “accepts the essence of democracy, but opposes fundamental elements of liberal democracy, most notably minority rights, rule of law, and separation of powers”.


    The Hope not Hate page this comes from is helpful for clarification:
    https://hopenothate.org.uk/2024/08/29/call-them-what-they-are/

    Hope not hate are fascists I wouldn't put any credence in absolutely anything they had to say
    BS.
    Hope Not Hate are scum

    @Pagan2 is entirely right

    Get out of here with that shit
    I have no truck with fascists whether left or right
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,404
    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    Correct - the names were more a smorgasboard of famous ships.

    They should have gone "woke" and named them after Flower Class corvettes.
    Which was the French ship of the line, which fought so well before being captured, that there was a tradition in RN service of respecting the place on board where the French Captain died?
    Forgive me for checking, but it's not by any chance a misremembering of the Captain and his son on the Orient at the Nile against Nelson, and the poem being written about the Boy on the Burning Deck? Conflated with the famous plaque on the deck of Victory?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casabianca_(poem)
    When you put social before scientist you are demeaning science....social science is no different to astrology its practised by quacks
    Er, some mistake surely?
    No mistake people who study sociology are arseholes that add nothing to the world. They are universally wrong in thinking its a science of any description....its not its some wonky theories they have bought into
    But why me, I mean? No social scientists in my post.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,373
    edited January 27
    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    Correct - the names were more a smorgasboard of famous ships.

    They should have gone "woke" and named them after Flower Class corvettes.
    Which was the French ship of the line, which fought so well before being captured, that there was a tradition in RN service of respecting the place on board where the French Captain died?
    Forgive me for checking, but it's not by any chance a misremembering of the Captain and his son on the Orient at the Nile against Nelson, and the poem being written about the Boy on the Burning Deck? Conflated with the famous plaque on the deck of Victory?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casabianca_(poem)
    When you put social before scientist you are demeaning science....social science is no different to astrology its practised by quacks
    Er, some mistake surely?
    No mistake people who study sociology are arseholes that add nothing to the world. They are universally wrong in thinking its a science of any description....its not its some wonky theories they have bought into
    But why me, I mean? No social scientists in my post.
    Ah my mistake I catch your drift now I hit quote on the wrong post as doing about 4 different things at the same time....my apologies sir

    meant to quote omnium
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,404
    edited January 27

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    Correct - the names were more a smorgasboard of famous ships.

    They should have gone "woke" and named them after Flower Class corvettes.
    Which was the French ship of the line, which fought so well before being captured, that there was a tradition in RN service of respecting the place on board where the French Captain died?
    Forgive me for checking, but it's not by any chance a misremembering of the Captain and his son on the Orient at the Nile against Nelson, and the poem being written about the Boy on the Burning Deck? Conflated with the famous plaque on the deck of Victory?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casabianca_(poem)
    Shades also of 16-year-old ‘Boy’ Cornwell VC, who died at the Battle of Jutland after remaining in position, and buried in Sunil's neck of the woods.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Cornwell
    I had no idea that the chap was buried in a common grave (as opposed to sea or the CWGC, e.g. at Queensferry* near Rosyth where some must have died of wounds or been found in compartments dead). Or that the newspaper fund raised belatedly wouldn't support his mother.

    One can't eat a VC. But the family kept it till atd least 1968 when they loaned it to the IWM.

    * https://www.cwgc.org/visit-us/find-cemeteries-memorials/cemetery-details/74305/south-queensferry-cemetery/
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,785

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Britain’s largest choir stop performing The Police’s ‘Every Breath You Take’ due to controversial lyrics and “impact of the narrative”. Comprising over 31,000 members across the UK, the Rock Choir has long performed the classic 1983 track but has now confirmed it will be removing it from the repertoire."

    https://www.nme.com/news/music/britains-largest-choir-stop-performing-the-police-every-breath-you-take-3831072

    Remember Delilah getting cancelled a couple of years back.
    The Stones "Under My Thumb" has been considered problematic too.
    Or The Beatles' "Run for Your Life".
    And this delightful ditty

    Take a look at her hair, it's real
    If you don't believe what I say, just feel
    I'm gonna lock her up in a trunk so no big hunk
    Can steal her away from me

    I sense the singer might have been more interested in the big hunk.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,208
    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    Correct - the names were more a smorgasboard of famous ships.

    They should have gone "woke" and named them after Flower Class corvettes.
    Which was the French ship of the line, which fought so well before being captured, that there was a tradition in RN service of respecting the place on board where the French Captain died?
    Forgive me for checking, but it's not by any chance a misremembering of the Captain and his son on the Orient at the Nile against Nelson, and the poem being written about the Boy on the Burning Deck? Conflated with the famous plaque on the deck of Victory?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casabianca_(poem)
    When you put social before scientist you are demeaning science....social science is no different to astrology its practised by quacks
    Er, some mistake surely?
    No mistake people who study sociology are arseholes that add nothing to the world. They are universally wrong in thinking its a science of any description....its not its some wonky theories they have bought into
    But why me, I mean? No social scientists in my post.
    Ah my mistake I catch your drift now I hit quote on the wrong post as doing about 4 different things at the same time....my apologies sir

    meant to quote omnium
    An opportunity missed.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,958
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    Correct - the names were more a smorgasboard of famous ships.

    They should have gone "woke" and named them after Flower Class corvettes.
    Which was the French ship of the line, which fought so well before being captured, that there was a tradition in RN service of respecting the place on board where the French Captain died?
    Forgive me for checking, but it's not by any chance a misremembering of the Captain and his son on the Orient at the Nile against Nelson, and the poem being written about the Boy on the Burning Deck? Conflated with the famous plaque on the deck of Victory?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casabianca_(poem)
    Nope, it was a 74, IIRC. I have a vague memory that it was stationed in Gibraltar for a lot of it's RN career.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,141
    edited January 27
    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, this from Robert Jenrick has really annoyed me.



    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1882684767742951702

    Are you suggesting that not all the problems in the criminal justice system are due to the new Labour administration?
    Look, I give Starmer until this July.

    The solution is easy, as with most things, he needs to hire more (well remunerated) lawyers to fix the problems.
    That’s only part of the problem - he also needs to get the courts open every day. Currently a lot only work part time due to lack of judges (and a host of other issues).
    Goodness me, you are surely not suggesting that *professionals* should work weekends? Whatever next? Perhaps you might also suggest something as outrageous as hospital consultants should work weekends, or maybe something even more morally abominable that they shouldn't be able do private work on the sly when they are meant to be working for the NHS?

    Whatever would the world come to if highly paid (and super superannuated) public "servants" had to work at weekends. Preposterous!
    Funny you should say that. TMI perhaps but I needed my ears vacuumed out this weekend - I had the flu lurgy earlier this month and my ears had been backed up ever since. Thought it too good to be true but found an independent audiologist who did Sunday morning appointments to compete with Specsavers et al and...I'm not exactly sure where I was going with this anecdote so ignore it. She did a great job though.

    I keep being asked if I want to be an employment tribunal judge. They are that desperate.
    Last time I went to a hospital outpatient it was on a Saturday, which I didn't ask for (but was great as I was meeting friends later for lunch). And that was 2-3 years ago. And that was a real live specialist, not some imitation cheapo whatever they are called non-doctor folk.

    So the folk NF is berating for not working on Saturdays do work on Saturdays. Some of them, anyway.
    +1 - round here urgent referrals is a 7 day a week operation from 9am to roughly midnight. Mrs Eek was treated by them on a Friday evening, discharged at Saturday lunchtime and we visited them early for the following 2 weeks for dressings to be changed as the local district nurses were busy...
    Conversely, if you go in to hospital for treatment as an in-patient and they wrap up whatever they were treating you for on a Weds/Thurs you will stay in the hospital until Monday at the earliest because no one will be there to fill your prescriptions or discharge you.

    So there is that.
    Must have changed since my day then. Often stayed late on a Friday dispensing discharge prescriptions for late discharges.
    Much has likely changed since your days I have no doubt.
    And your argument is that it’s got worse (but can’t provide evidence to back up you statement) while I have anecdotal evidence that round here it’s half decent
    NHS England has written a paper specifically designed to address the low rate of weekend discharges. I mean it doesn't get less anecdotal than that.

    But I'm delighted your four mates were chucked out on time.
    Once again - the document is a best practice guide based on things that have already been implemented in other areas (clearly not where you live).

    https://transform.england.nhs.uk/improvement/100-day-discharge-challenge/ten-best-practice-initiatives/ is a better starting point as it shows what it's related to.

    You then take a headline figure that has no evidence to back it up as your basis for your 40% figure which again is the difference between those that haven't implemented best practice and those that have. It's perfectly possible that the 40% difference is between the really worst performing trust and the very best - and given the purpose of that article that is quite possibly the source of your figure...

    You may also find this page helpful https://transform.england.nhs.uk/improvement/100-day-discharge-challenge/aims/ as it shows the aims of the website you focus on so much.

    It was for an initiative that kicked off on June 23rd 2022 to finish on 30th September 2022

    So I think your data is hopelessly out of date given that the aim of the project was to resolve the issues you are complaining about...



  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,353
    edited January 27
    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, this from Robert Jenrick has really annoyed me.



    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1882684767742951702

    Are you suggesting that not all the problems in the criminal justice system are due to the new Labour administration?
    Look, I give Starmer until this July.

    The solution is easy, as with most things, he needs to hire more (well remunerated) lawyers to fix the problems.
    That’s only part of the problem - he also needs to get the courts open every day. Currently a lot only work part time due to lack of judges (and a host of other issues).
    Goodness me, you are surely not suggesting that *professionals* should work weekends? Whatever next? Perhaps you might also suggest something as outrageous as hospital consultants should work weekends, or maybe something even more morally abominable that they shouldn't be able do private work on the sly when they are meant to be working for the NHS?

    Whatever would the world come to if highly paid (and super superannuated) public "servants" had to work at weekends. Preposterous!
    Funny you should say that. TMI perhaps but I needed my ears vacuumed out this weekend - I had the flu lurgy earlier this month and my ears had been backed up ever since. Thought it too good to be true but found an independent audiologist who did Sunday morning appointments to compete with Specsavers et al and...I'm not exactly sure where I was going with this anecdote so ignore it. She did a great job though.

    I keep being asked if I want to be an employment tribunal judge. They are that desperate.
    Last time I went to a hospital outpatient it was on a Saturday, which I didn't ask for (but was great as I was meeting friends later for lunch). And that was 2-3 years ago. And that was a real live specialist, not some imitation cheapo whatever they are called non-doctor folk.

    So the folk NF is berating for not working on Saturdays do work on Saturdays. Some of them, anyway.
    +1 - round here urgent referrals is a 7 day a week operation from 9am to roughly midnight. Mrs Eek was treated by them on a Friday evening, discharged at Saturday lunchtime and we visited them early for the following 2 weeks for dressings to be changed as the local district nurses were busy...
    Conversely, if you go in to hospital for treatment as an in-patient and they wrap up whatever they were treating you for on a Weds/Thurs you will stay in the hospital until Monday at the earliest because no one will be there to fill your prescriptions or discharge you.

    So there is that.
    Must have changed since my day then. Often stayed late on a Friday dispensing discharge prescriptions for late discharges.
    Much has likely changed since your days I have no doubt.
    And your argument is that it’s got worse (but can’t provide evidence to back up you statement) while I have anecdotal evidence that round here it’s half decent
    NHS England has written a paper specifically designed to address the low rate of weekend discharges. I mean it doesn't get less anecdotal than that.

    But I'm delighted your four mates were chucked out on time.
    Once again - the document is a best practice guide based on things that have already been implemented in other areas (clearly not where you live).

    https://transform.england.nhs.uk/improvement/100-day-discharge-challenge/ten-best-practice-initiatives/ is a better starting point as it shows what it's related to.

    You then take a headline figure that has no evidence to back it up as your basis for your 40% figure which again is the difference between those that haven't implemented best practice and those that have. It's perfectly possible that the 40% difference is between the really worst performing trust and the very best - and given the purpose of that article that is quite possibly the source of your figure...

    "Despite increased focus on seven-day working and hospital discharge, weekend discharges from hospital are about 40% lower than weekday discharges. This contributes to the ‘Monday challenge’ of more demand but less inpatient bed capacity."


    Signed: NHS England.

    Now, if you want to make a whole case about the efficacy of the NHS based upon your four mates who, over two years, were discharged over the weekend then by all means go for it.

    But NHS England thinks there's a problem, and so do I.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,373
    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, this from Robert Jenrick has really annoyed me.



    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1882684767742951702

    Are you suggesting that not all the problems in the criminal justice system are due to the new Labour administration?
    Look, I give Starmer until this July.

    The solution is easy, as with most things, he needs to hire more (well remunerated) lawyers to fix the problems.
    That’s only part of the problem - he also needs to get the courts open every day. Currently a lot only work part time due to lack of judges (and a host of other issues).
    Goodness me, you are surely not suggesting that *professionals* should work weekends? Whatever next? Perhaps you might also suggest something as outrageous as hospital consultants should work weekends, or maybe something even more morally abominable that they shouldn't be able do private work on the sly when they are meant to be working for the NHS?

    Whatever would the world come to if highly paid (and super superannuated) public "servants" had to work at weekends. Preposterous!
    Funny you should say that. TMI perhaps but I needed my ears vacuumed out this weekend - I had the flu lurgy earlier this month and my ears had been backed up ever since. Thought it too good to be true but found an independent audiologist who did Sunday morning appointments to compete with Specsavers et al and...I'm not exactly sure where I was going with this anecdote so ignore it. She did a great job though.

    I keep being asked if I want to be an employment tribunal judge. They are that desperate.
    Last time I went to a hospital outpatient it was on a Saturday, which I didn't ask for (but was great as I was meeting friends later for lunch). And that was 2-3 years ago. And that was a real live specialist, not some imitation cheapo whatever they are called non-doctor folk.

    So the folk NF is berating for not working on Saturdays do work on Saturdays. Some of them, anyway.
    +1 - round here urgent referrals is a 7 day a week operation from 9am to roughly midnight. Mrs Eek was treated by them on a Friday evening, discharged at Saturday lunchtime and we visited them early for the following 2 weeks for dressings to be changed as the local district nurses were busy...
    Conversely, if you go in to hospital for treatment as an in-patient and they wrap up whatever they were treating you for on a Weds/Thurs you will stay in the hospital until Monday at the earliest because no one will be there to fill your prescriptions or discharge you.

    So there is that.
    Must have changed since my day then. Often stayed late on a Friday dispensing discharge prescriptions for late discharges.
    Much has likely changed since your days I have no doubt.
    And your argument is that it’s got worse (but can’t provide evidence to back up you statement) while I have anecdotal evidence that round here it’s half decent
    NHS England has written a paper specifically designed to address the low rate of weekend discharges. I mean it doesn't get less anecdotal than that.

    But I'm delighted your four mates were chucked out on time.
    Once again - the document is a best practice guide based on things that have already been implemented in other areas (clearly not where you live).

    https://transform.england.nhs.uk/improvement/100-day-discharge-challenge/ten-best-practice-initiatives/ is a better starting point as it shows what it's related to.

    You then take a headline figure that has no evidence to back it up as your basis for your 40% figure which again is the difference between those that haven't implemented best practice and those that have. It's perfectly possible that the 40% difference is between the really worst performing trust and the very best - and given the purpose of that article that is quite possibly the source of your figure...

    "Despite increased focus on seven-day working and hospital discharge, weekend discharges from hospital are about 40% lower than weekday discharges. This contributes to the ‘Monday challenge’ of more demand but less inpatient bed capacity."


    Signed: NHS England.

    Now, if you want to make a whole case about the efficacy of the NHS based upon your four mates who, over two years, were discharged over the weekend then by all means go for it.

    But NHS England thinks there's a problem, and so do I.
    Not only that but medical staff will tell you don't get admitted over the weekend your outcomes will be worse
  • eekeek Posts: 29,141
    edited January 27
    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, this from Robert Jenrick has really annoyed me.



    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1882684767742951702

    Are you suggesting that not all the problems in the criminal justice system are due to the new Labour administration?
    Look, I give Starmer until this July.

    The solution is easy, as with most things, he needs to hire more (well remunerated) lawyers to fix the problems.
    That’s only part of the problem - he also needs to get the courts open every day. Currently a lot only work part time due to lack of judges (and a host of other issues).
    Goodness me, you are surely not suggesting that *professionals* should work weekends? Whatever next? Perhaps you might also suggest something as outrageous as hospital consultants should work weekends, or maybe something even more morally abominable that they shouldn't be able do private work on the sly when they are meant to be working for the NHS?

    Whatever would the world come to if highly paid (and super superannuated) public "servants" had to work at weekends. Preposterous!
    Funny you should say that. TMI perhaps but I needed my ears vacuumed out this weekend - I had the flu lurgy earlier this month and my ears had been backed up ever since. Thought it too good to be true but found an independent audiologist who did Sunday morning appointments to compete with Specsavers et al and...I'm not exactly sure where I was going with this anecdote so ignore it. She did a great job though.

    I keep being asked if I want to be an employment tribunal judge. They are that desperate.
    Last time I went to a hospital outpatient it was on a Saturday, which I didn't ask for (but was great as I was meeting friends later for lunch). And that was 2-3 years ago. And that was a real live specialist, not some imitation cheapo whatever they are called non-doctor folk.

    So the folk NF is berating for not working on Saturdays do work on Saturdays. Some of them, anyway.
    +1 - round here urgent referrals is a 7 day a week operation from 9am to roughly midnight. Mrs Eek was treated by them on a Friday evening, discharged at Saturday lunchtime and we visited them early for the following 2 weeks for dressings to be changed as the local district nurses were busy...
    Conversely, if you go in to hospital for treatment as an in-patient and they wrap up whatever they were treating you for on a Weds/Thurs you will stay in the hospital until Monday at the earliest because no one will be there to fill your prescriptions or discharge you.

    So there is that.
    Must have changed since my day then. Often stayed late on a Friday dispensing discharge prescriptions for late discharges.
    Much has likely changed since your days I have no doubt.
    And your argument is that it’s got worse (but can’t provide evidence to back up you statement) while I have anecdotal evidence that round here it’s half decent
    NHS England has written a paper specifically designed to address the low rate of weekend discharges. I mean it doesn't get less anecdotal than that.

    But I'm delighted your four mates were chucked out on time.
    Once again - the document is a best practice guide based on things that have already been implemented in other areas (clearly not where you live).

    https://transform.england.nhs.uk/improvement/100-day-discharge-challenge/ten-best-practice-initiatives/ is a better starting point as it shows what it's related to.

    You then take a headline figure that has no evidence to back it up as your basis for your 40% figure which again is the difference between those that haven't implemented best practice and those that have. It's perfectly possible that the 40% difference is between the really worst performing trust and the very best - and given the purpose of that article that is quite possibly the source of your figure...

    "Despite increased focus on seven-day working and hospital discharge, weekend discharges from hospital are about 40% lower than weekday discharges. This contributes to the ‘Monday challenge’ of more demand but less inpatient bed capacity."


    Signed: NHS England.

    Now, if you want to make a whole case about the efficacy of the NHS based upon your four mates who, over two years, were discharged over the weekend then by all means go for it.

    But NHS England thinks there's a problem, and so do I.
    You missed my edit - which I will repeat below..

    You may also find this page helpful https://transform.england.nhs.uk/improvement/100-day-discharge-challenge/aims/ as it shows the aims of the website you focus on so much.

    It was for an initiative that kicked off on June 23rd 2022 to finish on 30th September 2022

    So I think your data is hopelessly out of date given that the aim of the project was to resolve the issues you are complaining about...

    As all my anecdotes are from 2023/24 I think what they actually show is that the improvement / best practice has worked...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,785
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    Correct - the names were more a smorgasboard of famous ships.

    They should have gone "woke" and named them after Flower Class corvettes.
    Which was the French ship of the line, which fought so well before being captured, that there was a tradition in RN service of respecting the place on board where the French Captain died?
    Forgive me for checking, but it's not by any chance a misremembering of the Captain and his son on the Orient at the Nile against Nelson, and the poem being written about the Boy on the Burning Deck? Conflated with the famous plaque on the deck of Victory?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casabianca_(poem)
    Shades also of 16-year-old ‘Boy’ Cornwell VC, who died at the Battle of Jutland after remaining in position, and buried in Sunil's neck of the woods.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Cornwell
    I had no idea that the chap was buried in a common grave (as opposed to sea or the CWGC, e.g. at Queensferry* near Rosyth where some must have died of wounds or been found in compartments dead). Or that the newspaper fund raised belatedly wouldn't support his mother.

    One can't eat a VC. But the family kept it till atd least 1968 when they loaned it to the IWM.

    * https://www.cwgc.org/visit-us/find-cemeteries-memorials/cemetery-details/74305/south-queensferry-cemetery/
    Antiques Roadshow last night valued a VC won by a Sikh captain at £250k. I guess Cornwall’s VC would be quite a lot higher in the unlikely event of it coming on the market..
  • Foss said:

    DougSeal said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    Correct - the names were more a smorgasboard of famous ships.

    They should have gone "woke" and named them after Flower Class corvettes.
    The antithesis of "woke" would be a class of ship named after fox-hunts - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunt-class_destroyer
    Iain Bank's Culture used to have good names for their warships - something like 'Frank Exchange of Views' would work well for a sub.
    Already used for Musk's drone ships, sadly.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,353
    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, this from Robert Jenrick has really annoyed me.



    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1882684767742951702

    Are you suggesting that not all the problems in the criminal justice system are due to the new Labour administration?
    Look, I give Starmer until this July.

    The solution is easy, as with most things, he needs to hire more (well remunerated) lawyers to fix the problems.
    That’s only part of the problem - he also needs to get the courts open every day. Currently a lot only work part time due to lack of judges (and a host of other issues).
    Goodness me, you are surely not suggesting that *professionals* should work weekends? Whatever next? Perhaps you might also suggest something as outrageous as hospital consultants should work weekends, or maybe something even more morally abominable that they shouldn't be able do private work on the sly when they are meant to be working for the NHS?

    Whatever would the world come to if highly paid (and super superannuated) public "servants" had to work at weekends. Preposterous!
    Funny you should say that. TMI perhaps but I needed my ears vacuumed out this weekend - I had the flu lurgy earlier this month and my ears had been backed up ever since. Thought it too good to be true but found an independent audiologist who did Sunday morning appointments to compete with Specsavers et al and...I'm not exactly sure where I was going with this anecdote so ignore it. She did a great job though.

    I keep being asked if I want to be an employment tribunal judge. They are that desperate.
    Last time I went to a hospital outpatient it was on a Saturday, which I didn't ask for (but was great as I was meeting friends later for lunch). And that was 2-3 years ago. And that was a real live specialist, not some imitation cheapo whatever they are called non-doctor folk.

    So the folk NF is berating for not working on Saturdays do work on Saturdays. Some of them, anyway.
    +1 - round here urgent referrals is a 7 day a week operation from 9am to roughly midnight. Mrs Eek was treated by them on a Friday evening, discharged at Saturday lunchtime and we visited them early for the following 2 weeks for dressings to be changed as the local district nurses were busy...
    Conversely, if you go in to hospital for treatment as an in-patient and they wrap up whatever they were treating you for on a Weds/Thurs you will stay in the hospital until Monday at the earliest because no one will be there to fill your prescriptions or discharge you.

    So there is that.
    Must have changed since my day then. Often stayed late on a Friday dispensing discharge prescriptions for late discharges.
    Much has likely changed since your days I have no doubt.
    And your argument is that it’s got worse (but can’t provide evidence to back up you statement) while I have anecdotal evidence that round here it’s half decent
    NHS England has written a paper specifically designed to address the low rate of weekend discharges. I mean it doesn't get less anecdotal than that.

    But I'm delighted your four mates were chucked out on time.
    Once again - the document is a best practice guide based on things that have already been implemented in other areas (clearly not where you live).

    https://transform.england.nhs.uk/improvement/100-day-discharge-challenge/ten-best-practice-initiatives/ is a better starting point as it shows what it's related to.

    You then take a headline figure that has no evidence to back it up as your basis for your 40% figure which again is the difference between those that haven't implemented best practice and those that have. It's perfectly possible that the 40% difference is between the really worst performing trust and the very best - and given the purpose of that article that is quite possibly the source of your figure...

    "Despite increased focus on seven-day working and hospital discharge, weekend discharges from hospital are about 40% lower than weekday discharges. This contributes to the ‘Monday challenge’ of more demand but less inpatient bed capacity."


    Signed: NHS England.

    Now, if you want to make a whole case about the efficacy of the NHS based upon your four mates who, over two years, were discharged over the weekend then by all means go for it.

    But NHS England thinks there's a problem, and so do I.
    You missed my edit - which I will repeat below..

    You may also find this page helpful https://transform.england.nhs.uk/improvement/100-day-discharge-challenge/aims/ as it shows the aims of the website you focus on so much.

    It was for an initiative that kicked off on June 23rd 2022 to finish on 30th September 2022

    So I think your data is hopelessly out of date given that the aim of the project was to resolve the issues you are complaining about...

    As all my anecdotes are from 2023/24 I think what they actually show is that the improvement / best practice has worked...
    Yes I'm sure they solved the whole problem in three months in 2022.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,785

    Foss said:

    DougSeal said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    Correct - the names were more a smorgasboard of famous ships.

    They should have gone "woke" and named them after Flower Class corvettes.
    The antithesis of "woke" would be a class of ship named after fox-hunts - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunt-class_destroyer
    Iain Bank's Culture used to have good names for their warships - something like 'Frank Exchange of Views' would work well for a sub.
    Already used for Musk's drone ships, sadly.
    I’m sure Banks would approve.

    NOT!!!
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 391
    Taz said:

    Deepseek announces another open source AI tool. This one does pictures.

    https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/1883927276800336124?s=61

    It does really, really good pics. Scroll down.

    https://huggingface.co/deepseek-ai/Janus-Pro-7B
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,404

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    Correct - the names were more a smorgasboard of famous ships.

    They should have gone "woke" and named them after Flower Class corvettes.
    Which was the French ship of the line, which fought so well before being captured, that there was a tradition in RN service of respecting the place on board where the French Captain died?
    Forgive me for checking, but it's not by any chance a misremembering of the Captain and his son on the Orient at the Nile against Nelson, and the poem being written about the Boy on the Burning Deck? Conflated with the famous plaque on the deck of Victory?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casabianca_(poem)
    Nope, it was a 74, IIRC. I have a vague memory that it was stationed in Gibraltar for a lot of it's RN career.
    Why not ask AI? Though I'd definitdely check it.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,612
    I wonder if AI will ever be intelligent enough to allow a computer to play chess
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,208
    edited January 27

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    Correct - the names were more a smorgasboard of famous ships.

    They should have gone "woke" and named them after Flower Class corvettes.
    Which was the French ship of the line, which fought so well before being captured, that there was a tradition in RN service of respecting the place on board where the French Captain died?
    Forgive me for checking, but it's not by any chance a misremembering of the Captain and his son on the Orient at the Nile against Nelson, and the poem being written about the Boy on the Burning Deck? Conflated with the famous plaque on the deck of Victory?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casabianca_(poem)
    Shades also of 16-year-old ‘Boy’ Cornwell VC, who died at the Battle of Jutland after remaining in position, and buried in Sunil's neck of the woods.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Cornwell
    I had no idea that the chap was buried in a common grave (as opposed to sea or the CWGC, e.g. at Queensferry* near Rosyth where some must have died of wounds or been found in compartments dead). Or that the newspaper fund raised belatedly wouldn't support his mother.

    One can't eat a VC. But the family kept it till atd least 1968 when they loaned it to the IWM.

    * https://www.cwgc.org/visit-us/find-cemeteries-memorials/cemetery-details/74305/south-queensferry-cemetery/
    Antiques Roadshow last night valued a VC won by a Sikh captain at £250k. I guess Cornwall’s VC would be quite a lot higher in the unlikely event of it coming on the market..
    I thought that tale was extraordinary.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,373

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    Correct - the names were more a smorgasboard of famous ships.

    They should have gone "woke" and named them after Flower Class corvettes.
    Which was the French ship of the line, which fought so well before being captured, that there was a tradition in RN service of respecting the place on board where the French Captain died?
    Forgive me for checking, but it's not by any chance a misremembering of the Captain and his son on the Orient at the Nile against Nelson, and the poem being written about the Boy on the Burning Deck? Conflated with the famous plaque on the deck of Victory?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casabianca_(poem)
    Shades also of 16-year-old ‘Boy’ Cornwell VC, who died at the Battle of Jutland after remaining in position, and buried in Sunil's neck of the woods.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Cornwell
    I had no idea that the chap was buried in a common grave (as opposed to sea or the CWGC, e.g. at Queensferry* near Rosyth where some must have died of wounds or been found in compartments dead). Or that the newspaper fund raised belatedly wouldn't support his mother.

    One can't eat a VC. But the family kept it till atd least 1968 when they loaned it to the IWM.

    * https://www.cwgc.org/visit-us/find-cemeteries-memorials/cemetery-details/74305/south-queensferry-cemetery/
    Antiques Roadshow last night valued a VC won by a Sikh captain at £250k. I guess Cornwall’s VC would be quite a lot higher in the unlikely event of it coming on the market..
    It is sobering after viewing the Ashcroft VC (and GC) collection at the Imperial War Museum, and reading the commendations, to reflect on the aggregate value of all that conspicuous bravery at £250,000 a pop.
    https://www.lordashcroftmedals.com/
  • eekeek Posts: 29,141
    edited January 27
    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, this from Robert Jenrick has really annoyed me.



    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1882684767742951702

    Are you suggesting that not all the problems in the criminal justice system are due to the new Labour administration?
    Look, I give Starmer until this July.

    The solution is easy, as with most things, he needs to hire more (well remunerated) lawyers to fix the problems.
    That’s only part of the problem - he also needs to get the courts open every day. Currently a lot only work part time due to lack of judges (and a host of other issues).
    Goodness me, you are surely not suggesting that *professionals* should work weekends? Whatever next? Perhaps you might also suggest something as outrageous as hospital consultants should work weekends, or maybe something even more morally abominable that they shouldn't be able do private work on the sly when they are meant to be working for the NHS?

    Whatever would the world come to if highly paid (and super superannuated) public "servants" had to work at weekends. Preposterous!
    Funny you should say that. TMI perhaps but I needed my ears vacuumed out this weekend - I had the flu lurgy earlier this month and my ears had been backed up ever since. Thought it too good to be true but found an independent audiologist who did Sunday morning appointments to compete with Specsavers et al and...I'm not exactly sure where I was going with this anecdote so ignore it. She did a great job though.

    I keep being asked if I want to be an employment tribunal judge. They are that desperate.
    Last time I went to a hospital outpatient it was on a Saturday, which I didn't ask for (but was great as I was meeting friends later for lunch). And that was 2-3 years ago. And that was a real live specialist, not some imitation cheapo whatever they are called non-doctor folk.

    So the folk NF is berating for not working on Saturdays do work on Saturdays. Some of them, anyway.
    +1 - round here urgent referrals is a 7 day a week operation from 9am to roughly midnight. Mrs Eek was treated by them on a Friday evening, discharged at Saturday lunchtime and we visited them early for the following 2 weeks for dressings to be changed as the local district nurses were busy...
    Conversely, if you go in to hospital for treatment as an in-patient and they wrap up whatever they were treating you for on a Weds/Thurs you will stay in the hospital until Monday at the earliest because no one will be there to fill your prescriptions or discharge you.

    So there is that.
    Must have changed since my day then. Often stayed late on a Friday dispensing discharge prescriptions for late discharges.
    Much has likely changed since your days I have no doubt.
    And your argument is that it’s got worse (but can’t provide evidence to back up you statement) while I have anecdotal evidence that round here it’s half decent
    NHS England has written a paper specifically designed to address the low rate of weekend discharges. I mean it doesn't get less anecdotal than that.

    But I'm delighted your four mates were chucked out on time.
    Once again - the document is a best practice guide based on things that have already been implemented in other areas (clearly not where you live).

    https://transform.england.nhs.uk/improvement/100-day-discharge-challenge/ten-best-practice-initiatives/ is a better starting point as it shows what it's related to.

    You then take a headline figure that has no evidence to back it up as your basis for your 40% figure which again is the difference between those that haven't implemented best practice and those that have. It's perfectly possible that the 40% difference is between the really worst performing trust and the very best - and given the purpose of that article that is quite possibly the source of your figure...

    "Despite increased focus on seven-day working and hospital discharge, weekend discharges from hospital are about 40% lower than weekday discharges. This contributes to the ‘Monday challenge’ of more demand but less inpatient bed capacity."


    Signed: NHS England.

    Now, if you want to make a whole case about the efficacy of the NHS based upon your four mates who, over two years, were discharged over the weekend then by all means go for it.

    But NHS England thinks there's a problem, and so do I.
    You missed my edit - which I will repeat below..

    You may also find this page helpful https://transform.england.nhs.uk/improvement/100-day-discharge-challenge/aims/ as it shows the aims of the website you focus on so much.

    It was for an initiative that kicked off on June 23rd 2022 to finish on 30th September 2022

    So I think your data is hopelessly out of date given that the aim of the project was to resolve the issues you are complaining about...

    As all my anecdotes are from 2023/24 I think what they actually show is that the improvement / best practice has worked...
    Yes I'm sure they solved the whole problem in three months in 2022.
    Just emphasising that your data is out of date and was written for a specific purpose so may not be 100% accurate...

    My real concern is that given your job you don't seen to spend anytime validating your data sources - it wasn't difficult for me to discover

    1) this data had an ulterior motive to ensure hospitals did something.
    2) it was for a website campaign with clear cut dates so you were definitely looking at the before picture...

  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,945
    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, this from Robert Jenrick has really annoyed me.



    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1882684767742951702

    Are you suggesting that not all the problems in the criminal justice system are due to the new Labour administration?
    Look, I give Starmer until this July.

    The solution is easy, as with most things, he needs to hire more (well remunerated) lawyers to fix the problems.
    That’s only part of the problem - he also needs to get the courts open every day. Currently a lot only work part time due to lack of judges (and a host of other issues).
    Goodness me, you are surely not suggesting that *professionals* should work weekends? Whatever next? Perhaps you might also suggest something as outrageous as hospital consultants should work weekends, or maybe something even more morally abominable that they shouldn't be able do private work on the sly when they are meant to be working for the NHS?

    Whatever would the world come to if highly paid (and super superannuated) public "servants" had to work at weekends. Preposterous!
    Funny you should say that. TMI perhaps but I needed my ears vacuumed out this weekend - I had the flu lurgy earlier this month and my ears had been backed up ever since. Thought it too good to be true but found an independent audiologist who did Sunday morning appointments to compete with Specsavers et al and...I'm not exactly sure where I was going with this anecdote so ignore it. She did a great job though.

    I keep being asked if I want to be an employment tribunal judge. They are that desperate.
    Last time I went to a hospital outpatient it was on a Saturday, which I didn't ask for (but was great as I was meeting friends later for lunch). And that was 2-3 years ago. And that was a real live specialist, not some imitation cheapo whatever they are called non-doctor folk.

    So the folk NF is berating for not working on Saturdays do work on Saturdays. Some of them, anyway.
    +1 - round here urgent referrals is a 7 day a week operation from 9am to roughly midnight. Mrs Eek was treated by them on a Friday evening, discharged at Saturday lunchtime and we visited them early for the following 2 weeks for dressings to be changed as the local district nurses were busy...
    Conversely, if you go in to hospital for treatment as an in-patient and they wrap up whatever they were treating you for on a Weds/Thurs you will stay in the hospital until Monday at the earliest because no one will be there to fill your prescriptions or discharge you.

    So there is that.
    Must have changed since my day then. Often stayed late on a Friday dispensing discharge prescriptions for late discharges.
    Much has likely changed since your days I have no doubt.
    And your argument is that it’s got worse (but can’t provide evidence to back up you statement) while I have anecdotal evidence that round here it’s half decent
    NHS England has written a paper specifically designed to address the low rate of weekend discharges. I mean it doesn't get less anecdotal than that.

    But I'm delighted your four mates were chucked out on time.
    Once again - the document is a best practice guide based on things that have already been implemented in other areas (clearly not where you live).

    https://transform.england.nhs.uk/improvement/100-day-discharge-challenge/ten-best-practice-initiatives/ is a better starting point as it shows what it's related to.

    You then take a headline figure that has no evidence to back it up as your basis for your 40% figure which again is the difference between those that haven't implemented best practice and those that have. It's perfectly possible that the 40% difference is between the really worst performing trust and the very best - and given the purpose of that article that is quite possibly the source of your figure...

    "Despite increased focus on seven-day working and hospital discharge, weekend discharges from hospital are about 40% lower than weekday discharges. This contributes to the ‘Monday challenge’ of more demand but less inpatient bed capacity."


    Signed: NHS England.

    Now, if you want to make a whole case about the efficacy of the NHS based upon your four mates who, over two years, were discharged over the weekend then by all means go for it.

    But NHS England thinks there's a problem, and so do I.
    You missed my edit - which I will repeat below..

    You may also find this page helpful https://transform.england.nhs.uk/improvement/100-day-discharge-challenge/aims/ as it shows the aims of the website you focus on so much.

    It was for an initiative that kicked off on June 23rd 2022 to finish on 30th September 2022

    So I think your data is hopelessly out of date given that the aim of the project was to resolve the issues you are complaining about...

    As all my anecdotes are from 2023/24 I think what they actually show is that the improvement / best practice has worked...
    Yes I'm sure they solved the whole problem in three months in 2022.
    It's what a lot of people seemed to expect the new government to do for everything, starting July 2024.

    And the whole point of exercises like this is to share quickish wins from places that have solved the problem more widely. The sort of efficiency improvements that we all want... don't we? And kudos to the government in charge at the time for doing that.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,785
    Omnium said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    Correct - the names were more a smorgasboard of famous ships.

    They should have gone "woke" and named them after Flower Class corvettes.
    Which was the French ship of the line, which fought so well before being captured, that there was a tradition in RN service of respecting the place on board where the French Captain died?
    Forgive me for checking, but it's not by any chance a misremembering of the Captain and his son on the Orient at the Nile against Nelson, and the poem being written about the Boy on the Burning Deck? Conflated with the famous plaque on the deck of Victory?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casabianca_(poem)
    Shades also of 16-year-old ‘Boy’ Cornwell VC, who died at the Battle of Jutland after remaining in position, and buried in Sunil's neck of the woods.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Cornwell
    I had no idea that the chap was buried in a common grave (as opposed to sea or the CWGC, e.g. at Queensferry* near Rosyth where some must have died of wounds or been found in compartments dead). Or that the newspaper fund raised belatedly wouldn't support his mother.

    One can't eat a VC. But the family kept it till atd least 1968 when they loaned it to the IWM.

    * https://www.cwgc.org/visit-us/find-cemeteries-memorials/cemetery-details/74305/south-queensferry-cemetery/
    Antiques Roadshow last night valued a VC won by a Sikh captain at £250k. I guess Cornwall’s VC would be quite a lot higher in the unlikely event of it coming on the market..
    I thought that tale was extraordinary.
    He was a good looking lad. The obvious pride that his son and other family members had in it was the best bit.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,208

    Foss said:

    DougSeal said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    Correct - the names were more a smorgasboard of famous ships.

    They should have gone "woke" and named them after Flower Class corvettes.
    The antithesis of "woke" would be a class of ship named after fox-hunts - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunt-class_destroyer
    Iain Bank's Culture used to have good names for their warships - something like 'Frank Exchange of Views' would work well for a sub.
    Already used for Musk's drone ships, sadly.
    I’m sure Banks would approve.

    NOT!!!
    He'd have liked the spaceships. Musk is a great man with regard to spaceships. Otherwise just another chap. A Musky Finknottle really.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,652
    kjh said:

    1 hour 30 min traffic jam on M11. We have just escaped from it. Google initially suggested we do a U turn on the M11, but didn't give any advice on how.

    It was about time Google Maps updated to ensure it always complies with the Highway Code and UK law in its suggestions
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,156

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    Achilles is quite a venerable ship name, with some form against the French. This one saw service at Belleisle and Le Havre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Achilles_(1757)?wprov=sfla1
    But does the boat have a secret, fatal vulnerability ?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,404
    Omnium said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    Correct - the names were more a smorgasboard of famous ships.

    They should have gone "woke" and named them after Flower Class corvettes.
    Which was the French ship of the line, which fought so well before being captured, that there was a tradition in RN service of respecting the place on board where the French Captain died?
    Forgive me for checking, but it's not by any chance a misremembering of the Captain and his son on the Orient at the Nile against Nelson, and the poem being written about the Boy on the Burning Deck? Conflated with the famous plaque on the deck of Victory?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casabianca_(poem)
    Shades also of 16-year-old ‘Boy’ Cornwell VC, who died at the Battle of Jutland after remaining in position, and buried in Sunil's neck of the woods.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Cornwell
    I had no idea that the chap was buried in a common grave (as opposed to sea or the CWGC, e.g. at Queensferry* near Rosyth where some must have died of wounds or been found in compartments dead). Or that the newspaper fund raised belatedly wouldn't support his mother.

    One can't eat a VC. But the family kept it till atd least 1968 when they loaned it to the IWM.

    * https://www.cwgc.org/visit-us/find-cemeteries-memorials/cemetery-details/74305/south-queensferry-cemetery/
    Antiques Roadshow last night valued a VC won by a Sikh captain at £250k. I guess Cornwall’s VC would be quite a lot higher in the unlikely event of it coming on the market..
    I thought that tale was extraordinary.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gian_Singh_(soldier)
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,539
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    Deepseek announces another open source AI tool. This one does pictures.

    https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/1883927276800336124?s=61

    It's going to be interesting seeing what images and videos come from Deepseek because OpenAI and Google have such strict guardrails on what they produce with their imaging AI and which prompts are allowable. Deepseek will have nowhere near the same level of sensitivity around these subjects.
    DeepSeek is woke because it’s based on the OpenAI training data. It often refers to itself as “ChatGPT”
    But it's open source so people can spin up their own versions with their own biased/unbiased training data as they see fit and not put any guardrails on it that end up showing black medieval knights and all that nonsense Gemini gave us the first time around.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,439
    Omnium said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Omfg CONCLAVE is fucking ludicrous


    Are they really gonna give it the Oscar?!


    “Yes eet eez true. Ze holy father ‘e knew I ‘ave seven penises”

    Saw it a couple of weeks ago. The first half was quite good in terms of atmosphere.
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Omfg CONCLAVE is fucking ludicrous


    Are they really gonna give it the Oscar?!


    “Yes eet eez true. Ze holy father ‘e knew I ‘ave seven penises”

    Saw it a couple of weeks ago. The first half was quite good in terms of atmosphere.
    It’s a really weird movie. The cinematography is superb, the acting is excellent, the soundtrack is good - but the plot and the script get increasingly turgid and then risible and by the end it devolves into a bizarre and comical puddle of silly woke nonsense

    It’s been nommed for EIGHT Oscars which is not a sign of a healthy film industry. BAD
    To be fair, it's better than the dreadful musical about the sex change drug lord.
    I quite like South Pacific.
    'I'm going to wash that transitioner right out of my hair'. Showstopper.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,785
    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    Achilles is quite a venerable ship name, with some form against the French. This one saw service at Belleisle and Le Havre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Achilles_(1757)?wprov=sfla1
    But does the boat have a secret, fatal vulnerability ?
    Let’s hope it passed its heel tests.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,208
    algarkirk said:

    Omnium said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Omfg CONCLAVE is fucking ludicrous


    Are they really gonna give it the Oscar?!


    “Yes eet eez true. Ze holy father ‘e knew I ‘ave seven penises”

    Saw it a couple of weeks ago. The first half was quite good in terms of atmosphere.
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Omfg CONCLAVE is fucking ludicrous


    Are they really gonna give it the Oscar?!


    “Yes eet eez true. Ze holy father ‘e knew I ‘ave seven penises”

    Saw it a couple of weeks ago. The first half was quite good in terms of atmosphere.
    It’s a really weird movie. The cinematography is superb, the acting is excellent, the soundtrack is good - but the plot and the script get increasingly turgid and then risible and by the end it devolves into a bizarre and comical puddle of silly woke nonsense

    It’s been nommed for EIGHT Oscars which is not a sign of a healthy film industry. BAD
    To be fair, it's better than the dreadful musical about the sex change drug lord.
    I quite like South Pacific.
    'I'm going to wash that transitioner right out of my hair'. Showstopper.
    It's these young Smithsons - lack of hair.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,612
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    Deepseek announces another open source AI tool. This one does pictures.

    https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/1883927276800336124?s=61

    It's going to be interesting seeing what images and videos come from Deepseek because OpenAI and Google have such strict guardrails on what they produce with their imaging AI and which prompts are allowable. Deepseek will have nowhere near the same level of sensitivity around these subjects.
    DeepSeek is woke because it’s based on the OpenAI training data. It often refers to itself as “ChatGPT”
    But it's open source so people can spin up their own versions with their own biased/unbiased training data as they see fit and not put any guardrails on it that end up showing black medieval knights and all that nonsense Gemini gave us the first time around.
    There were loads of black knights. There was even a Black Prince. He’s buried in Canterbury Cathedral. Indeed two of the horsey pieces in chess are black.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,235

    Andrew Neil
    @afneil

    CIA has concluded the Covid pandemic was “more likely” to have leaked from a Wuhan lab than emerged naturally. Chinese officials have long labelled this a “conspiracy theory” and, right from the start, were supported in that interpretation by much of the western MSM, especially the left-leaning MSM like the Guardian, NYT and BBC, some of whom smeared anybody who even gave the lab theory the time of day.

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1883934386661249457
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,373
    Carnyx said:

    Omnium said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/27/hms-agincourt-no-10-accused-of-trying-not-to-upset-french-by-renaming-submarine

    Very odd story as Agincourt was a crap name for a modern warship in the first place. I almost suspect wokehunter-laid bait.

    The last but one was an infamous 6 x twin gun turreted dreadnought taken over at the shipyard in 1914 and the Turkish crew ejected (probably motivated the Turks, for whom it was being built, to go the other side ... well, I'd be pissed too). The last was a Battle class fleet destroyer converted to a radar picket. But it's never been a submarine name. Admittedly some of the other submarine names in the Astute class aren't traditional boat names. But by the same token there are plenty of more important names to use.

    Correct - the names were more a smorgasboard of famous ships.

    They should have gone "woke" and named them after Flower Class corvettes.
    Which was the French ship of the line, which fought so well before being captured, that there was a tradition in RN service of respecting the place on board where the French Captain died?
    Forgive me for checking, but it's not by any chance a misremembering of the Captain and his son on the Orient at the Nile against Nelson, and the poem being written about the Boy on the Burning Deck? Conflated with the famous plaque on the deck of Victory?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casabianca_(poem)
    Shades also of 16-year-old ‘Boy’ Cornwell VC, who died at the Battle of Jutland after remaining in position, and buried in Sunil's neck of the woods.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Cornwell
    I had no idea that the chap was buried in a common grave (as opposed to sea or the CWGC, e.g. at Queensferry* near Rosyth where some must have died of wounds or been found in compartments dead). Or that the newspaper fund raised belatedly wouldn't support his mother.

    One can't eat a VC. But the family kept it till atd least 1968 when they loaned it to the IWM.

    * https://www.cwgc.org/visit-us/find-cemeteries-memorials/cemetery-details/74305/south-queensferry-cemetery/
    Antiques Roadshow last night valued a VC won by a Sikh captain at £250k. I guess Cornwall’s VC would be quite a lot higher in the unlikely event of it coming on the market..
    I thought that tale was extraordinary.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gian_Singh_(soldier)
    Here is the extract from Antiques Roadshow
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiIbaI8s4mI
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,404
    DougSeal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    Deepseek announces another open source AI tool. This one does pictures.

    https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/1883927276800336124?s=61

    It's going to be interesting seeing what images and videos come from Deepseek because OpenAI and Google have such strict guardrails on what they produce with their imaging AI and which prompts are allowable. Deepseek will have nowhere near the same level of sensitivity around these subjects.
    DeepSeek is woke because it’s based on the OpenAI training data. It often refers to itself as “ChatGPT”
    But it's open source so people can spin up their own versions with their own biased/unbiased training data as they see fit and not put any guardrails on it that end up showing black medieval knights and all that nonsense Gemini gave us the first time around.
    There were loads of black knights. There was even a Black Prince. He’s buried in Canterbury Cathedral. Indeed two of the horsey pieces in chess are black.
    Also rockets. Eat your heart out, Tech Bros ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mnvd3P9H3o4
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,208


    Andrew Neil
    @afneil

    CIA has concluded the Covid pandemic was “more likely” to have leaked from a Wuhan lab than emerged naturally. Chinese officials have long labelled this a “conspiracy theory” and, right from the start, were supported in that interpretation by much of the western MSM, especially the left-leaning MSM like the Guardian, NYT and BBC, some of whom smeared anybody who even gave the lab theory the time of day.

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1883934386661249457

    He's becoming a @Leon parody act.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,612
    Battlebus said:

    Taz said:

    Deepseek announces another open source AI tool. This one does pictures.

    https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/1883927276800336124?s=61

    It does really, really good pics. Scroll down.

    https://huggingface.co/deepseek-ai/Janus-Pro-7B
    They’re excellent. This will simply batter sectors of the creative industry among others.

    I get @Leon line of thinking as to the impact on white collar jobs.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    Deepseek announces another open source AI tool. This one does pictures.

    https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/1883927276800336124?s=61

    It's going to be interesting seeing what images and videos come from Deepseek because OpenAI and Google have such strict guardrails on what they produce with their imaging AI and which prompts are allowable. Deepseek will have nowhere near the same level of sensitivity around these subjects.
    Will it produce an image of the Tiananmen Square man in front of a tank, with Winnie The Pooh peering out of the hatch of the tank?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,235
    Catching up with clips of Heseltine on BBC politics. 91 years old and still going.

    But incredible to think his brand of tory thinking is now as dead as a doornail it seems. Listening to him on europe and popularism and so on.

    Yet there was a time when his leaving the cabinet might have brought the government down.

    Incredible.
  • On stalking songs

    500 Miles is a bit problematic too

    That's a fucking long stalking mission in an aeroplane

    On foot...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,920
    Omnium said:


    Andrew Neil
    @afneil

    CIA has concluded the Covid pandemic was “more likely” to have leaked from a Wuhan lab than emerged naturally. Chinese officials have long labelled this a “conspiracy theory” and, right from the start, were supported in that interpretation by much of the western MSM, especially the left-leaning MSM like the Guardian, NYT and BBC, some of whom smeared anybody who even gave the lab theory the time of day.

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1883934386661249457

    He's becoming a @Leon parody act.
    Speccieworld isn't it. All inhabitants are the same.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,443

    Catching up with clips of Heseltine on BBC politics. 91 years old and still going.

    But incredible to think his brand of tory thinking is now as dead as a doornail it seems. Listening to him on europe and popularism and so on.

    Yet there was a time when his leaving the cabinet might have brought the government down.

    Incredible.

    ...things change. Politics and parties change over time, and after thirty or forty years we look back and, lo, it was different then. I think we can only really understand it until a good few decades have passed. Which is a bit of a bugger when it comes to betting... :(
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,643
    Just finished watching all 12 episodes of the first series of The Traitors from a couple of years ago, in 72 hours. Very addictive show. Wish I'd watched it at the time. Haven't seen any of the other series.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,954
    On thread. Paris lie because they can. They treat the voters with contempt. Eventually the voters have had enough. Amazing we have reached that with the 2024 Labour Govt already.
  • On thread. Paris lie because they can. They treat the voters with contempt. Eventually the voters have had enough. Amazing we have reached that with the 2024 Labour Govt already.

    Is it a French thing, or just in the capital?
This discussion has been closed.