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Sleazy does it – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,254
edited January 17 in General
Sleazy does it – politicalbetting.com

Is the Labour government sleazy?Very/fairly sleazy: 54%Not very/at all sleazy: 28% pic.twitter.com/V3vkrJcqj8

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,204
    edited January 17
    The question is, does it matter if people think you're sleazy? If half of your voters do, but vote for you anyway, it does suggest that people make their voting decisions based on other things.

    Also one notes recent events across the Atlantic - lots of people, including many on here, thought that accusations, then indictments, then convictions would be a bar to holding office, but apparently they very little difference. A convicted felon beat a prosecutor.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,132
    "John Curtice
    Britain’s politics is fragmenting – and it’s looking like Reform is here to stay
    One in six of those who still voted Conservative in July have now switched over to Nigel Farage’s insurgent party"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/01/16/britain-politics-fragmenting-reform-here-to-stay/
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,766
    This sort of thing brings anti-corruption efforts into disrepute. What is it Sadiq is supposed to have done in return for Taylor Swift tickets? What about everyone else on freebies at the concerts?

    On the one hand, the rich can buy their own bloody tickets, but stop this endless crying wolf about trivia.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,505
    Andy_JS said:

    "John Curtice
    Britain’s politics is fragmenting – and it’s looking like Reform is here to stay
    One in six of those who still voted Conservative in July have now switched over to Nigel Farage’s insurgent party"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/01/16/britain-politics-fragmenting-reform-here-to-stay/

    There are still formidable electoral obstacles standing between Reform and becoming the second party. They're still behind the Tories in most polls and have hardly been setting the world of council byelections alight.

    Nevertheless, now is their chance.
  • Strangers bar to shut on Monday after alleged spiking
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,013
    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "John Curtice
    Britain’s politics is fragmenting – and it’s looking like Reform is here to stay
    One in six of those who still voted Conservative in July have now switched over to Nigel Farage’s insurgent party"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/01/16/britain-politics-fragmenting-reform-here-to-stay/

    There are still formidable electoral obstacles standing between Reform and becoming the second party. They're still behind the Tories in most polls and have hardly been setting the world of council byelections alight.

    Nevertheless, now is their chance.
    Hmm.. interested in your point re the by-elections. My gut feel is that they’ve done rather well, no? But willing to be told otherwise by the data.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,208

    This sort of thing brings anti-corruption efforts into disrepute. What is it Sadiq is supposed to have done in return for Taylor Swift tickets? What about everyone else on freebies at the concerts?

    On the one hand, the rich can buy their own bloody tickets, but stop this endless crying wolf about trivia.
    I am beginning to wonder if there was anyone there paying for their own tickets.
  • DavidL said:

    This sort of thing brings anti-corruption efforts into disrepute. What is it Sadiq is supposed to have done in return for Taylor Swift tickets? What about everyone else on freebies at the concerts?

    On the one hand, the rich can buy their own bloody tickets, but stop this endless crying wolf about trivia.
    I am beginning to wonder if there was anyone there paying for their own tickets.
    I had tickets to see Taylor Swift last year but alas I didn’t go as I was hors de combat after surgery.

    So I must be unique in paying for tickets but not going.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,208

    DavidL said:

    This sort of thing brings anti-corruption efforts into disrepute. What is it Sadiq is supposed to have done in return for Taylor Swift tickets? What about everyone else on freebies at the concerts?

    On the one hand, the rich can buy their own bloody tickets, but stop this endless crying wolf about trivia.
    I am beginning to wonder if there was anyone there paying for their own tickets.
    I had tickets to see Taylor Swift last year but alas I didn’t go as I was hors de combat after surgery.

    So I must be unique in paying for tickets but not going.
    The opportunities for bribery and corruption you missed. There must have been some politician somewhere who hadn’t already been given them.
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    This sort of thing brings anti-corruption efforts into disrepute. What is it Sadiq is supposed to have done in return for Taylor Swift tickets? What about everyone else on freebies at the concerts?

    On the one hand, the rich can buy their own bloody tickets, but stop this endless crying wolf about trivia.
    I am beginning to wonder if there was anyone there paying for their own tickets.
    I had tickets to see Taylor Swift last year but alas I didn’t go as I was hors de combat after surgery.

    So I must be unique in paying for tickets but not going.
    The opportunities for bribery and corruption you missed. There must have been some politician somewhere who hadn’t already been given them.
    I have tickets to see Oasis in July, I will be on politician watch at the gig.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,908

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    This sort of thing brings anti-corruption efforts into disrepute. What is it Sadiq is supposed to have done in return for Taylor Swift tickets? What about everyone else on freebies at the concerts?

    On the one hand, the rich can buy their own bloody tickets, but stop this endless crying wolf about trivia.
    I am beginning to wonder if there was anyone there paying for their own tickets.
    I had tickets to see Taylor Swift last year but alas I didn’t go as I was hors de combat after surgery.

    So I must be unique in paying for tickets but not going.
    The opportunities for bribery and corruption you missed. There must have been some politician somewhere who hadn’t already been given them.
    I have tickets to see Oasis in July, I will be on politician watch at the gig.
    If anyone goes to see Arctic Monkeys, do let us know whether you see Gordon Brown :lol:
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,385
    edited January 17

    I’ve blown my daily photo allowance, so if you want to see Liz Truss in a MAGA hat, you’ll have to click the link:

    https://x.com/trussliz/status/1880242828317716884

    I'll post it with my allowance. There's a something degraded and sad about this photo. Liz Truss only one step away from rifling rubbish bins and people saying "You know, she used to be prime minister once."



  • Strangers bar to shut on Monday after alleged spiking

    ‘I felt a bit dizzy and before I knew it I’d defected to Reform..’
    Every time I have visited Strangers’ Bar I felt like a nun in a whorehouse given the lack of alcohol I was drinking.

    Who knew subsidised alcohol was popular ?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,852
    edited January 17
    Selebian said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    This sort of thing brings anti-corruption efforts into disrepute. What is it Sadiq is supposed to have done in return for Taylor Swift tickets? What about everyone else on freebies at the concerts?

    On the one hand, the rich can buy their own bloody tickets, but stop this endless crying wolf about trivia.
    I am beginning to wonder if there was anyone there paying for their own tickets.
    I had tickets to see Taylor Swift last year but alas I didn’t go as I was hors de combat after surgery.

    So I must be unique in paying for tickets but not going.
    The opportunities for bribery and corruption you missed. There must have been some politician somewhere who hadn’t already been given them.
    I have tickets to see Oasis in July, I will be on politician watch at the gig.
    If anyone goes to see Arctic Monkeys, do let us know whether you see Gordon Brown :lol:
    I used the think they were the Artic Monkeys, and I pictured primates driving an articulated lorry.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,037
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    This sort of thing brings anti-corruption efforts into disrepute. What is it Sadiq is supposed to have done in return for Taylor Swift tickets? What about everyone else on freebies at the concerts?

    On the one hand, the rich can buy their own bloody tickets, but stop this endless crying wolf about trivia.
    I am beginning to wonder if there was anyone there paying for their own tickets.
    I had tickets to see Taylor Swift last year but alas I didn’t go as I was hors de combat after surgery.

    So I must be unique in paying for tickets but not going.
    The opportunities for bribery and corruption you missed. There must have been some politician somewhere who hadn’t already been given them.
    Doubt it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,906
    Possibly the last such announcement under Biden's presidency.
    The revitalised US chip industry might be one of the less controversial and more significant pieces of his legacy.

    GlobalFoundries Announces New York Advanced Packaging and Photonics Center
    First of-its-kind center will offer advanced packaging and test capabilities in New York for U.S.-made essential chips used in AI, automotive, aerospace and defense, and other applications
    https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2025/01/17/3011296/0/en/GlobalFoundries-Announces-New-York-Advanced-Packaging-and-Photonics-Center.html
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,762
    FF43 said:

    I’ve blown my daily photo allowance, so if you want to see Liz Truss in a MAGA hat, you’ll have to click the link:

    https://x.com/trussliz/status/1880242828317716884

    I'll post it with my allowance. There's a something degraded and sad about this photo. Liz Truss only one step away from rifling rubbish bins and people saying "You know, she used to be prime minister once."



    Not a patch on her ministerial photoshoots of old. Presumably she doesn't now have a government-paid photographer to spend six hours a day doing them.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,906
    This, before any pain is felt.
    If Trump pushes ahead on tariffs, the effects will be both interesting and probably painful for us all.

    "Trump has said he would place a 25% tariffs on all Canadian goods entering the US. Do you support or oppose these tariffs?"

    All:
    Oppose: 50%
    Support: 26%

    Trump Voters:
    Support: 53%
    Oppose: 19%

    Harris Voters:
    Oppose: 88%
    Support: 3%

    Angus Reid / Jan 13, 2025 / n=518 / Online

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1880009655134613984
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 669

    Strangers bar to shut on Monday after alleged spiking

    ‘I felt a bit dizzy and before I knew it I’d defected to Reform..’
    Every time I have visited Strangers’ Bar I felt like a nun in a whorehouse given the lack of alcohol I was drinking.

    Who knew subsidised alcohol was popular ?
    Did they ever identify the MP who was alleged to be spiking people in the last parliament?
    I don't think it was any of the MPs against whom allegations were made public.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,385

    FF43 said:

    I’ve blown my daily photo allowance, so if you want to see Liz Truss in a MAGA hat, you’ll have to click the link:

    https://x.com/trussliz/status/1880242828317716884

    I'll post it with my allowance. There's a something degraded and sad about this photo. Liz Truss only one step away from rifling rubbish bins and people saying "You know, she used to be prime minister once."



    Not a patch on her ministerial photoshoots of old. Presumably she doesn't now have a government-paid photographer to spend six hours a day doing them.
    Truss' published images have always been preposterous but at least then she had a meaningful job. In this case the empty business district adds a layer of desperation to a washed up foreign politician in a MAGA cap with nowhere to go.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,999
    Off Topic

    Isn't nice of Elon to provide such a spectacular fireworks display yesterday.

    Expensive though..
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,495
    edited January 17
    That Truss ever even became a Cabinet Minister reflects very poorly on David Cameron.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,385

    That Truss ever even became a Cabinet Minister reflects very poorly on David Cameron.

    To be fair, Truss did a decent job rolling over EU trade deals after Brexit. Much better than her successor Badenoch.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 57,145
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    I’ve blown my daily photo allowance, so if you want to see Liz Truss in a MAGA hat, you’ll have to click the link:

    https://x.com/trussliz/status/1880242828317716884

    I'll post it with my allowance. There's a something degraded and sad about this photo. Liz Truss only one step away from rifling rubbish bins and people saying "You know, she used to be prime minister once."



    Not a patch on her ministerial photoshoots of old. Presumably she doesn't now have a government-paid photographer to spend six hours a day doing them.
    Truss' published images have always been preposterous but at least then she had a meaningful job. In this case the empty business district adds a layer of desperation to a washed up foreign politician in a MAGA cap with nowhere to go.
    That’s not an empty business district. That’s Washington, the most ugly-ass city in the USA. That’s what it looks like
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,906
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    I’ve blown my daily photo allowance, so if you want to see Liz Truss in a MAGA hat, you’ll have to click the link:

    https://x.com/trussliz/status/1880242828317716884

    I'll post it with my allowance. There's a something degraded and sad about this photo. Liz Truss only one step away from rifling rubbish bins and people saying "You know, she used to be prime minister once."



    Not a patch on her ministerial photoshoots of old. Presumably she doesn't now have a government-paid photographer to spend six hours a day doing them.
    Truss' published images have always been preposterous but at least then she had a meaningful job. In this case the empty business district adds a layer of desperation to a washed up foreign politician in a MAGA cap with nowhere to go.
    It's the political equivalent of washed up TV stars touring the convention circuit.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,906
    Leon said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    I’ve blown my daily photo allowance, so if you want to see Liz Truss in a MAGA hat, you’ll have to click the link:

    https://x.com/trussliz/status/1880242828317716884

    I'll post it with my allowance. There's a something degraded and sad about this photo. Liz Truss only one step away from rifling rubbish bins and people saying "You know, she used to be prime minister once."



    Not a patch on her ministerial photoshoots of old. Presumably she doesn't now have a government-paid photographer to spend six hours a day doing them.
    Truss' published images have always been preposterous but at least then she had a meaningful job. In this case the empty business district adds a layer of desperation to a washed up foreign politician in a MAGA cap with nowhere to go.
    That’s not an empty business district. That’s Washington, the most ugly-ass city in the USA. That’s what it looks like
    You ever visit Gary, Indiana ?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,385
    Leon said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    I’ve blown my daily photo allowance, so if you want to see Liz Truss in a MAGA hat, you’ll have to click the link:

    https://x.com/trussliz/status/1880242828317716884

    I'll post it with my allowance. There's a something degraded and sad about this photo. Liz Truss only one step away from rifling rubbish bins and people saying "You know, she used to be prime minister once."



    Not a patch on her ministerial photoshoots of old. Presumably she doesn't now have a government-paid photographer to spend six hours a day doing them.
    Truss' published images have always been preposterous but at least then she had a meaningful job. In this case the empty business district adds a layer of desperation to a washed up foreign politician in a MAGA cap with nowhere to go.
    That’s not an empty business district. That’s Washington, the most ugly-ass city in the USA. That’s what it looks like
    It's empty in the photo.
  • That Truss ever even became a Cabinet Minister reflects very poorly on David Cameron.

    Nah, she's another one radicalised by Brexit.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,368

    Strangers bar to shut on Monday after alleged spiking

    How many Labour by elections are we expecting?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,966

    Strangers bar to shut on Monday after alleged spiking

    How many Labour by elections are we expecting?
    650
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,906
    Nigelb said:

    Possibly the last such announcement under Biden's presidency.
    The revitalised US chip industry might be one of the less controversial and more significant pieces of his legacy.

    GlobalFoundries Announces New York Advanced Packaging and Photonics Center
    First of-its-kind center will offer advanced packaging and test capabilities in New York for U.S.-made essential chips used in AI, automotive, aerospace and defense, and other applications
    https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2025/01/17/3011296/0/en/GlobalFoundries-Announces-New-York-Advanced-Packaging-and-Photonics-Center.html

    Well, there was this one, too.

    Governor Hochul Announces Corning to Invest More Than $315 Million and Create up to 300 Jobs at Semiconductor Glass Manufacturing Facility in North Country
    https://esd.ny.gov/esd-media-center/press-releases/governor-hochul-announces-corning-invest-more-315-million-and-create-300-jobs-semiconductor-glass-manufacturing-facility-north-country
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,368

    Strangers bar to shut on Monday after alleged spiking

    How many Labour by elections are we expecting?
    650
    There were only around 410 Labour MPs after the last election. So 240ish MPs remain beyond reproach.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,203
    Nigelb said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    I’ve blown my daily photo allowance, so if you want to see Liz Truss in a MAGA hat, you’ll have to click the link:

    https://x.com/trussliz/status/1880242828317716884

    I'll post it with my allowance. There's a something degraded and sad about this photo. Liz Truss only one step away from rifling rubbish bins and people saying "You know, she used to be prime minister once."



    Not a patch on her ministerial photoshoots of old. Presumably she doesn't now have a government-paid photographer to spend six hours a day doing them.
    Truss' published images have always been preposterous but at least then she had a meaningful job. In this case the empty business district adds a layer of desperation to a washed up foreign politician in a MAGA cap with nowhere to go.
    It's the political equivalent of washed up TV stars touring the convention circuit.
    One of the more preposterous aspects of PB's unreasoning hatred of Truss and all her works is when it takes on this 'more-in-sorrow-than-in-anger' tone where a collection of middle-aged men try to convince themselves that Truss must spend her most of her days weeping in a darkened corner because she departed from the true centrist religion, like a fallen woman of old. She looks fine to me. She's made a crap load of money, gets retweeted by Elon Musk, and the ongoing collapse of the Starmer economic agenda is causing a revision of the minibudget in her favour - at least on much of the right.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,980
    Fishing said:

    The question is, does it matter if people think you're sleazy? If half of your voters do, but vote for you anyway, it does suggest that people make their voting decisions based on other things.

    Also one notes recent events across the Atlantic - lots of people, including many on here, thought that accusations, then indictments, then convictions would be a bar to holding office, but apparently they very little difference. A convicted felon beat a prosecutor.

    Yes, it does matter.

    It might not be a determining factor in many cases but politics isn't a binary thing and decisions are the result of many inputs. Sleaziness will impact the individual, their party and the system as a whole - all of which will make marginal differences to future outcomes. Tracing cause and effect is usually difficult but that's not to say it doesn't exist.

    I'd also add that sleaze, corruption and hypocrisy aren't all the same thing and those who are guilty of one are not necessarily guilty of all but they're closely related and often when a party has a problem with standards in one area, it'll impact elsewhere too - and when it fails on all three, the public really will take notice, both because it will tend to affect practical outputs and also because there is still an expectation that govt should operate fairly.

    This is not America and we have more than two choices.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,980

    That Truss ever even became a Cabinet Minister reflects very poorly on David Cameron.

    Nah, she's another one radicalised by Brexit.
    Although she was always a bit odd: a career in search of a cause.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,966

    Strangers bar to shut on Monday after alleged spiking

    How many Labour by elections are we expecting?
    650
    There were only around 410 Labour MPs after the last election. So 240ish MPs remain beyond reproach.
    Why are they beyond reproach?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,358

    That Truss ever even became a Cabinet Minister reflects very poorly on David Cameron.

    I blame Paddy Ashdown.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,906
    edited January 17

    Nigelb said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    I’ve blown my daily photo allowance, so if you want to see Liz Truss in a MAGA hat, you’ll have to click the link:

    https://x.com/trussliz/status/1880242828317716884

    I'll post it with my allowance. There's a something degraded and sad about this photo. Liz Truss only one step away from rifling rubbish bins and people saying "You know, she used to be prime minister once."



    Not a patch on her ministerial photoshoots of old. Presumably she doesn't now have a government-paid photographer to spend six hours a day doing them.
    Truss' published images have always been preposterous but at least then she had a meaningful job. In this case the empty business district adds a layer of desperation to a washed up foreign politician in a MAGA cap with nowhere to go.
    It's the political equivalent of washed up TV stars touring the convention circuit.
    One of the more preposterous aspects of PB's unreasoning hatred of Truss and all her works is when it takes on this 'more-in-sorrow-than-in-anger' tone where a collection of middle-aged men try to convince themselves that Truss must spend her most of her days weeping in a darkened corner because she departed from the true centrist religion, like a fallen woman of old. She looks fine to me. She's made a crap load of money, gets retweeted by Elon Musk, and the ongoing collapse of the Starmer economic agenda is causing a revision of the minibudget in her favour - at least on much of the right.
    Don't get me wrong, the TV convention circuit is a fine thing - which indeed provides a respectable income for not a few.

    "Revision of the mini budget" is good, though. :smile:
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,505

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "John Curtice
    Britain’s politics is fragmenting – and it’s looking like Reform is here to stay
    One in six of those who still voted Conservative in July have now switched over to Nigel Farage’s insurgent party"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/01/16/britain-politics-fragmenting-reform-here-to-stay/

    There are still formidable electoral obstacles standing between Reform and becoming the second party. They're still behind the Tories in most polls and have hardly been setting the world of council byelections alight.

    Nevertheless, now is their chance.
    Hmm.. interested in your point re the by-elections. My gut feel is that they’ve done rather well, no? But willing to be told otherwise by the data.
    They have been making big gains in vote share in some places where they stand (like in the Cotswolds last night) but are still only standing in a small minority of seats and haven't won many. Their stats give the impression of being a reasonably successful minor party, like the Greens in the last parliament, but not a party knocking on the door of the conservatives.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,906
    From an interesting thread on a new book likely to appeal to some PB historians.

    ...My book uses the writings and perspectives of enlisted men in order to show that eighteenth-century battles were a negotiation of authority between officers and their men. The officers wanted the men to fight like they do in the movies. The men weren't having it...
    https://x.com/KKriegeBlog/status/1879918622447223077
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,470
    The Supreme Court ruled against TikTok on Friday, rejecting the social media company’s First Amendment challenge to the law that effectively bans it in the United States starting on Sunday.

    NY Times blog
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,358
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    I’ve blown my daily photo allowance, so if you want to see Liz Truss in a MAGA hat, you’ll have to click the link:

    https://x.com/trussliz/status/1880242828317716884

    I'll post it with my allowance. There's a something degraded and sad about this photo. Liz Truss only one step away from rifling rubbish bins and people saying "You know, she used to be prime minister once."



    Not a patch on her ministerial photoshoots of old. Presumably she doesn't now have a government-paid photographer to spend six hours a day doing them.
    Truss' published images have always been preposterous but at least then she had a meaningful job. In this case the empty business district adds a layer of desperation to a washed up foreign politician in a MAGA cap with nowhere to go.
    It's the political equivalent of washed up TV stars touring the convention circuit.
    One of the more preposterous aspects of PB's unreasoning hatred of Truss and all her works is when it takes on this 'more-in-sorrow-than-in-anger' tone where a collection of middle-aged men try to convince themselves that Truss must spend her most of her days weeping in a darkened corner because she departed from the true centrist religion, like a fallen woman of old. She looks fine to me. She's made a crap load of money, gets retweeted by Elon Musk, and the ongoing collapse of the Starmer economic agenda is causing a revision of the minibudget in her favour - at least on much of the right.
    Don't get me wrong, the TV convention circuit is a fine thing - which indeed provides a respectable income for not a few.

    "Revision of the mini budget" is good, though. :smile:
    It would have certainly better if she had either made some revisions to it, or at least done some revision for it.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,093
    edited January 17

    The Supreme Court ruled against TikTok on Friday, rejecting the social media company’s First Amendment challenge to the law that effectively bans it in the United States starting on Sunday.

    NY Times blog

    They appear to be looking at turning themselves off world wide - possibly as a way of embarrassing the US internationally.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,843

    That Truss ever even became a Cabinet Minister reflects very poorly on David Cameron.

    Nah, she's another one radicalised by Brexit.
    Although she was always a bit odd: a career in search of a cause.
    I think that sums her up.

    She obviously doesn't want the implosion to be the last word about her. Difficult to see how she manages that just by trudging around with a MAGA hat.

    A move to Reform? Would Farage accept her?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,707
    edited January 17
    Because we are so immersed in neoliberalism and have forgotten what is possible, here is a 17min video telling you why unions are a good idea:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHOGRhBkWOE
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,470
    Nigelb said:

    From an interesting thread on a new book likely to appeal to some PB historians.

    ...My book uses the writings and perspectives of enlisted men in order to show that eighteenth-century battles were a negotiation of authority between officers and their men. The officers wanted the men to fight like they do in the movies. The men weren't having it...
    https://x.com/KKriegeBlog/status/1879918622447223077

    Oh, that looks interesting. Can I justify yet another history book in the house?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,470

    That Truss ever even became a Cabinet Minister reflects very poorly on David Cameron.

    I blame Paddy Ashdown.
    I blame Oxford.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,208

    Nigelb said:

    From an interesting thread on a new book likely to appeal to some PB historians.

    ...My book uses the writings and perspectives of enlisted men in order to show that eighteenth-century battles were a negotiation of authority between officers and their men. The officers wanted the men to fight like they do in the movies. The men weren't having it...
    https://x.com/KKriegeBlog/status/1879918622447223077

    Oh, that looks interesting. Can I justify yet another history book in the house?
    It was a time when tactics were seriously not keeping up with the efficacy of firearms. Fighting a battle by standing in nice straight lines in brightly coloured coats was increasingly suicidal. It does not surprise me at all that it would be a subject of debate.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,385

    Nigelb said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    I’ve blown my daily photo allowance, so if you want to see Liz Truss in a MAGA hat, you’ll have to click the link:

    https://x.com/trussliz/status/1880242828317716884

    I'll post it with my allowance. There's a something degraded and sad about this photo. Liz Truss only one step away from rifling rubbish bins and people saying "You know, she used to be prime minister once."



    Not a patch on her ministerial photoshoots of old. Presumably she doesn't now have a government-paid photographer to spend six hours a day doing them.
    Truss' published images have always been preposterous but at least then she had a meaningful job. In this case the empty business district adds a layer of desperation to a washed up foreign politician in a MAGA cap with nowhere to go.
    It's the political equivalent of washed up TV stars touring the convention circuit.
    One of the more preposterous aspects of PB's unreasoning hatred of Truss and all her works is when it takes on this 'more-in-sorrow-than-in-anger' tone where a collection of middle-aged men try to convince themselves that Truss must spend her most of her days weeping in a darkened corner because she departed from the true centrist religion, like a fallen woman of old. She looks fine to me. She's made a crap load of money, gets retweeted by Elon Musk, and the ongoing collapse of the Starmer economic agenda is causing a revision of the minibudget in her favour - at least on much of the right.
    Liz Truss shows no sign of weeping in a darkened corner - the complete opposite in fact - and I for one wouldn't want or expect her to do so.

    As she decides what photos to issue on her own feed, she opens them to comment. It is certainly a remarkable image.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062

    This sort of thing brings anti-corruption efforts into disrepute. What is it Sadiq is supposed to have done in return for Taylor Swift tickets? What about everyone else on freebies at the concerts?

    On the one hand, the rich can buy their own bloody tickets, but stop this endless crying wolf about trivia.
    It's the Telegraph. They have lowered the standard of the serious press in the UK by an order of magnitude not seen since the Sunday Sport temporarily replaced the News of the World.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,843
    Just had really interesting feedback (albeit indirect) from someone immensely experienced and senior in world of finance/business/govt and by no means anti-Labour.

    Extremely depressed. Starmer and Reeves just don't get it at all. And the budget measures on NI and and workers' rights having a disastrous effect on businesses and their attitude to employing new staff.

    I had kinda thought that Starmer was at least a grown-up in the room. Well, he may be in chambers, but apparently not at all in the world outside of that. Very sobering.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,966
    Foss said:

    The Supreme Court ruled against TikTok on Friday, rejecting the social media company’s First Amendment challenge to the law that effectively bans it in the United States starting on Sunday.

    NY Times blog

    They appear to be looking at turning themselves off world wide - possibly as a way of embarrassing the US internationally.
    I thought cracking down on social media was the new fashion?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,908

    That Truss ever even became a Cabinet Minister reflects very poorly on David Cameron.

    I blame Paddy Ashdown.
    I blame Oxford.
    I blame some school in Leeds (and a friend's mum who taught her).
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062

    Strangers bar to shut on Monday after alleged spiking

    You're not sleeping with Guido are you? You used to be a serious poster albeit a dyed in the wool Tory one
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,980

    Just had really interesting feedback (albeit indirect) from someone immensely experienced and senior in world of finance/business/govt and by no means anti-Labour.

    Extremely depressed. Starmer and Reeves just don't get it at all. And the budget measures on NI and and workers' rights having a disastrous effect on businesses and their attitude to employing new staff.

    I had kinda thought that Starmer was at least a grown-up in the room. Well, he may be in chambers, but apparently not at all in the world outside of that. Very sobering.

    He is a grown up. He just doesn't know the subject and so is being dominated by the Treasury. He also (foolishly) promised loads more money for services and simultaneously ruled out tax rises across most of the board, leaving employers' NI as one of the few areas where meaningful money could be raised.
  • That Truss ever even became a Cabinet Minister reflects very poorly on David Cameron.

    Nah, she's another one radicalised by Brexit.
    Although she was always a bit odd: a career in search of a cause.
    She should have stuck with her republicanism.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,385
    edited January 17

    Just had really interesting feedback (albeit indirect) from someone immensely experienced and senior in world of finance/business/govt and by no means anti-Labour.

    Extremely depressed. Starmer and Reeves just don't get it at all. And the budget measures on NI and and workers' rights having a disastrous effect on businesses and their attitude to employing new staff.

    I had kinda thought that Starmer was at least a grown-up in the room. Well, he may be in chambers, but apparently not at all in the world outside of that. Very sobering.

    He is a grown up. He just doesn't know the subject and so is being dominated by the Treasury. He also (foolishly) promised loads more money for services and simultaneously ruled out tax rises across most of the board, leaving employers' NI as one of the few areas where meaningful money could be raised.
    I think also Starmer is a better politician than people give him credit for. He knows people prefer tax rises to fall on their employers rather than directly on themselves, given the tax rises are unavoidable. It may not make economic sense but it makes political sense, and that is what he cares about
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,203
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    I’ve blown my daily photo allowance, so if you want to see Liz Truss in a MAGA hat, you’ll have to click the link:

    https://x.com/trussliz/status/1880242828317716884

    I'll post it with my allowance. There's a something degraded and sad about this photo. Liz Truss only one step away from rifling rubbish bins and people saying "You know, she used to be prime minister once."



    Not a patch on her ministerial photoshoots of old. Presumably she doesn't now have a government-paid photographer to spend six hours a day doing them.
    Truss' published images have always been preposterous but at least then she had a meaningful job. In this case the empty business district adds a layer of desperation to a washed up foreign politician in a MAGA cap with nowhere to go.
    It's the political equivalent of washed up TV stars touring the convention circuit.
    One of the more preposterous aspects of PB's unreasoning hatred of Truss and all her works is when it takes on this 'more-in-sorrow-than-in-anger' tone where a collection of middle-aged men try to convince themselves that Truss must spend her most of her days weeping in a darkened corner because she departed from the true centrist religion, like a fallen woman of old. She looks fine to me. She's made a crap load of money, gets retweeted by Elon Musk, and the ongoing collapse of the Starmer economic agenda is causing a revision of the minibudget in her favour - at least on much of the right.
    Don't get me wrong, the TV convention circuit is a fine thing - which indeed provides a respectable income for not a few.

    "Revision of the mini budget" is good, though. :smile:
    I am very clear eyed on how badly the minibudget is perceived. One of the good reasons for Truss's 'cease and desist' letter to Starmer is that the coverage of it was literally the first time that many had heard an alternative to the narrative that she had 'crashed the economy'. But now it is getting well around that the current figures are worse. So I'd say from an abysmal low, there is a revision going on, and more are prepared to give Truss a hearing.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,129
    .
    Roger said:

    Strangers bar to shut on Monday after alleged spiking

    You're not sleeping with Guido are you? You used to be a serious poster albeit a dyed in the wool Tory one
    Huh? The story has been reported in several outlets. Don’t you believe it?
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 101

    Nigelb said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    I’ve blown my daily photo allowance, so if you want to see Liz Truss in a MAGA hat, you’ll have to click the link:

    https://x.com/trussliz/status/1880242828317716884

    I'll post it with my allowance. There's a something degraded and sad about this photo. Liz Truss only one step away from rifling rubbish bins and people saying "You know, she used to be prime minister once."



    Not a patch on her ministerial photoshoots of old. Presumably she doesn't now have a government-paid photographer to spend six hours a day doing them.
    Truss' published images have always been preposterous but at least then she had a meaningful job. In this case the empty business district adds a layer of desperation to a washed up foreign politician in a MAGA cap with nowhere to go.
    It's the political equivalent of washed up TV stars touring the convention circuit.
    One of the more preposterous aspects of PB's unreasoning hatred of Truss and all her works is when it takes on this 'more-in-sorrow-than-in-anger' tone where a collection of middle-aged men try to convince themselves that Truss must spend her most of her days weeping in a darkened corner because she departed from the true centrist religion, like a fallen woman of old. She looks fine to me. She's made a crap load of money, gets retweeted by Elon Musk, and the ongoing collapse of the Starmer economic agenda is causing a revision of the minibudget in her favour - at least on much of the right.
    Is she Nu10K - or hopes to be?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,280
    5 pm and its not yet dark FFS
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,208
    viewcode said:

    Because we are so immersed in neoliberalism and have forgotten what is possible, here is a 17min video telling you why unions are a good idea:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHOGRhBkWOE

    My niece parted company with a marketing firm a few months ago. The source of the dispute seemed to be that her employer wanted her to wear makeup to work. She (a pretty girl, it must be said) was reluctant.

    Her mother, who has only ever worked in the public sector, said she should go to her union. Her daughter was baffled. She’d never actually come across a union in any of her employment.

    In 40 odd years of working in the law I have never come across a Union either ( other than as a source of business, almost exclusively in the public sector).

    With the collapse of large organised labour employers I wonder how many have.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,999

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    I’ve blown my daily photo allowance, so if you want to see Liz Truss in a MAGA hat, you’ll have to click the link:

    https://x.com/trussliz/status/1880242828317716884

    I'll post it with my allowance. There's a something degraded and sad about this photo. Liz Truss only one step away from rifling rubbish bins and people saying "You know, she used to be prime minister once."



    Not a patch on her ministerial photoshoots of old. Presumably she doesn't now have a government-paid photographer to spend six hours a day doing them.
    Truss' published images have always been preposterous but at least then she had a meaningful job. In this case the empty business district adds a layer of desperation to a washed up foreign politician in a MAGA cap with nowhere to go.
    It's the political equivalent of washed up TV stars touring the convention circuit.
    One of the more preposterous aspects of PB's unreasoning hatred of Truss and all her works is when it takes on this 'more-in-sorrow-than-in-anger' tone where a collection of middle-aged men try to convince themselves that Truss must spend her most of her days weeping in a darkened corner because she departed from the true centrist religion, like a fallen woman of old. She looks fine to me. She's made a crap load of money, gets retweeted by Elon Musk, and the ongoing collapse of the Starmer economic agenda is causing a revision of the minibudget in her favour - at least on much of the right.
    Don't get me wrong, the TV convention circuit is a fine thing - which indeed provides a respectable income for not a few.

    "Revision of the mini budget" is good, though. :smile:
    I am very clear eyed on how badly the minibudget is perceived. One of the good reasons for Truss's 'cease and desist' letter to Starmer is that the coverage of it was literally the first time that many had heard an alternative to the narrative that she had 'crashed the economy'. But now it is getting well around that the current figures are worse. So I'd say from an abysmal low, there is a revision going on, and more are prepared to give Truss a hearing.
    I bet you fancy her really..
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,906

    Just had really interesting feedback (albeit indirect) from someone immensely experienced and senior in world of finance/business/govt and by no means anti-Labour.

    Extremely depressed. Starmer and Reeves just don't get it at all. And the budget measures on NI and and workers' rights having a disastrous effect on businesses and their attitude to employing new staff.

    I had kinda thought that Starmer was at least a grown-up in the room. Well, he may be in chambers, but apparently not at all in the world outside of that. Very sobering.

    He is a grown up. He just doesn't know the subject and so is being dominated by the Treasury. He also (foolishly) promised loads more money for services and simultaneously ruled out tax rises across most of the board, leaving employers' NI as one of the few areas where meaningful money could be raised.
    The "disastrous effect on businesses" might even be deliberate policy ?
    This link got swallowed in the close of the last thread:

    What do we make of this character ?
    It appears he's suddenly very influential.

    ‘He’s one of the best’: the economist shaping Rachel Reeves’s growth plans
    John Van Reenen believes he can help Labour solve the ‘peculiar British problem’ of chronically weak productivity
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/jan/17/economist-shaping-rachel-reeves-growth-plans-john-van-reenen

    ..While Labour rarely spells it out for fear of being seen to applaud job losses, there is also a hope that a higher minimum wage, better workers’ rights and even the £25bn rise in national insurance contributions (NICs) will incentivise companies to invest more in productivity-enhancing technology, rather than relying on low-cost workers...

    ...Van Reenen told a 2020 podcast hosted by the innovation agency Nesta that he thought perhaps 40-45% of the productivity gap between the UK and US may be explained by these management differences.

    “This is where politics and economics bump up against each other,” says Portes, pointing out that, in a thriving economy, poorly run businesses will fail, to be replaced by more productive ones...
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,980
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "John Curtice
    Britain’s politics is fragmenting – and it’s looking like Reform is here to stay
    One in six of those who still voted Conservative in July have now switched over to Nigel Farage’s insurgent party"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/01/16/britain-politics-fragmenting-reform-here-to-stay/

    There are still formidable electoral obstacles standing between Reform and becoming the second party. They're still behind the Tories in most polls and have hardly been setting the world of council byelections alight.

    Nevertheless, now is their chance.
    Hmm.. interested in your point re the by-elections. My gut feel is that they’ve done rather well, no? But willing to be told otherwise by the data.
    They have been making big gains in vote share in some places where they stand (like in the Cotswolds last night) but are still only standing in a small minority of seats and haven't won many. Their stats give the impression of being a reasonably successful minor party, like the Greens in the last parliament, but not a party knocking on the door of the conservatives.
    I think they're standing in most local by-elections at the moment? Not all but I'd guess over 80% (that said, Labour missed one last week).

    They're doing better than the Greens now or last parliament. Since the last May round of elections, they've gained 8 seats. That's not a huge number but then they've only been in the 20s for a few months.

    For context, in that time:
    - the Tories have defended 47 (held 30, lost 17) and gained 38;
    - Labour has defended 133 (held 96, lost 37), and gained 13;
    - the Lib Dems have defended 41 (held 28, lost 13) and gained 12;
    - the Greens have defended 7 (held 5, lost 2), and gained 6.

    So not yet a big breakthrough at that level but then council by-elections are not Reform's natural habitat. They don't have the activist experience or data, so lack ground game, which is crucial in these contests (because other parties will have them to concentrate in a way they won't in the normal May rounds). They also tend to focus on national rather than local issues, which again plays against them in these elections.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,852

    Just had really interesting feedback (albeit indirect) from someone immensely experienced and senior in world of finance/business/govt and by no means anti-Labour.

    Extremely depressed. Starmer and Reeves just don't get it at all. And the budget measures on NI and and workers' rights having a disastrous effect on businesses and their attitude to employing new staff.

    I had kinda thought that Starmer was at least a grown-up in the room. Well, he may be in chambers, but apparently not at all in the world outside of that. Very sobering.

    He is a grown up. He just doesn't know the subject and so is being dominated by the Treasury. He also (foolishly) promised loads more money for services and simultaneously ruled out tax rises across most of the board, leaving employers' NI as one of the few areas where meaningful money could be raised.
    I think this is, sadly, spot on.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 101
    “This is where politics and economics bump up against each other,” says Portes, pointing out that, in a thriving economy, poorly run businesses will fail, to be replaced by more productive ones...


    For decades of economists have been pointing to the low levels of productivity and efficiency in the UK. It's not just low wages. It's low wages and taxpayer subsidies through the benefits system.

    ... and they complain about Reeves not 'getting it'

    The complaints are from those who actually have now to go out and earn a living as enterprise managers rather than getting it handed to them by the UK taxpayer.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,906
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    From an interesting thread on a new book likely to appeal to some PB historians.

    ...My book uses the writings and perspectives of enlisted men in order to show that eighteenth-century battles were a negotiation of authority between officers and their men. The officers wanted the men to fight like they do in the movies. The men weren't having it...
    https://x.com/KKriegeBlog/status/1879918622447223077

    Oh, that looks interesting. Can I justify yet another history book in the house?
    It was a time when tactics were seriously not keeping up with the efficacy of firearms. Fighting a battle by standing in nice straight lines in brightly coloured coats was increasingly suicidal. It does not surprise me at all that it would be a subject of debate.
    https://x.com/KKriegeBlog/status/1879918637437555154
    ...When the Marquis de Montcalm (Plains of Abraham fame) sees infantry fighting from cover at Carillon in 1758, he doesn't say: wow, this is unique to North America!
    Instead, he says, "the firefight on both sides was like the Battle of Parma" (in North Italy, in 1734). The War of Polish Succession and the tactical developments it brought to infantry warfare, need to be reintroduced to the overall story of infantry tactics...
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    edited January 17
    RobD said:

    .

    Roger said:

    Strangers bar to shut on Monday after alleged spiking

    You're not sleeping with Guido are you? You used to be a serious poster albeit a dyed in the wool Tory one
    Huh? The story has been reported in several outlets. Don’t you believe it?
    Of course I believe it. It's trivial enough to be true.

    I'm simply amazed at the nonsense people are interested in.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,132
    IanB2 said:

    5 pm and its not yet dark FFS

    Are you referring to Rangoon?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,810
    Nigelb said:

    Just had really interesting feedback (albeit indirect) from someone immensely experienced and senior in world of finance/business/govt and by no means anti-Labour.

    Extremely depressed. Starmer and Reeves just don't get it at all. And the budget measures on NI and and workers' rights having a disastrous effect on businesses and their attitude to employing new staff.

    I had kinda thought that Starmer was at least a grown-up in the room. Well, he may be in chambers, but apparently not at all in the world outside of that. Very sobering.

    He is a grown up. He just doesn't know the subject and so is being dominated by the Treasury. He also (foolishly) promised loads more money for services and simultaneously ruled out tax rises across most of the board, leaving employers' NI as one of the few areas where meaningful money could be raised.
    The "disastrous effect on businesses" might even be deliberate policy ?
    This link got swallowed in the close of the last thread:

    What do we make of this character ?
    It appears he's suddenly very influential.

    ‘He’s one of the best’: the economist shaping Rachel Reeves’s growth plans
    John Van Reenen believes he can help Labour solve the ‘peculiar British problem’ of chronically weak productivity
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/jan/17/economist-shaping-rachel-reeves-growth-plans-john-van-reenen

    ..While Labour rarely spells it out for fear of being seen to applaud job losses, there is also a hope that a higher minimum wage, better workers’ rights and even the £25bn rise in national insurance contributions (NICs) will incentivise companies to invest more in productivity-enhancing technology, rather than relying on low-cost workers...

    ...Van Reenen told a 2020 podcast hosted by the innovation agency Nesta that he thought perhaps 40-45% of the productivity gap between the UK and US may be explained by these management differences.

    “This is where politics and economics bump up against each other,” says Portes, pointing out that, in a thriving economy, poorly run businesses will fail, to be replaced by more productive ones...
    Labour may be doomed, but Reeves could leave a golden legacy by bankrupting all the zombie businesses and creating negative net migration by clamping down on surplus employment.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,763
    edited January 17
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    From an interesting thread on a new book likely to appeal to some PB historians.

    ...My book uses the writings and perspectives of enlisted men in order to show that eighteenth-century battles were a negotiation of authority between officers and their men. The officers wanted the men to fight like they do in the movies. The men weren't having it...
    https://x.com/KKriegeBlog/status/1879918622447223077

    Oh, that looks interesting. Can I justify yet another history book in the house?
    It was a time when tactics were seriously not keeping up with the efficacy of firearms. Fighting a battle by standing in nice straight lines in brightly coloured coats was increasingly suicidal. It does not surprise me at all that it would be a subject of debate.
    https://x.com/KKriegeBlog/status/1879918637437555154
    ...When the Marquis de Montcalm (Plains of Abraham fame) sees infantry fighting from cover at Carillon in 1758, he doesn't say: wow, this is unique to North America!
    Instead, he says, "the firefight on both sides was like the Battle of Parma" (in North Italy, in 1734). The War of Polish Succession and the tactical developments it brought to infantry warfare, need to be reintroduced to the overall story of infantry tactics...
    I'm reminded of the British Army in North America. Thought some of the locals were unsporting - hid behind trees, didn't wear bright colours, used rifles, actually aimed them ...

    Edit: Washington did have regular units. And once the Brits cottoned on, and started developiong light companies with green jackets and rifles ...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,763

    Nigelb said:

    Just had really interesting feedback (albeit indirect) from someone immensely experienced and senior in world of finance/business/govt and by no means anti-Labour.

    Extremely depressed. Starmer and Reeves just don't get it at all. And the budget measures on NI and and workers' rights having a disastrous effect on businesses and their attitude to employing new staff.

    I had kinda thought that Starmer was at least a grown-up in the room. Well, he may be in chambers, but apparently not at all in the world outside of that. Very sobering.

    He is a grown up. He just doesn't know the subject and so is being dominated by the Treasury. He also (foolishly) promised loads more money for services and simultaneously ruled out tax rises across most of the board, leaving employers' NI as one of the few areas where meaningful money could be raised.
    The "disastrous effect on businesses" might even be deliberate policy ?
    This link got swallowed in the close of the last thread:

    What do we make of this character ?
    It appears he's suddenly very influential.

    ‘He’s one of the best’: the economist shaping Rachel Reeves’s growth plans
    John Van Reenen believes he can help Labour solve the ‘peculiar British problem’ of chronically weak productivity
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/jan/17/economist-shaping-rachel-reeves-growth-plans-john-van-reenen

    ..While Labour rarely spells it out for fear of being seen to applaud job losses, there is also a hope that a higher minimum wage, better workers’ rights and even the £25bn rise in national insurance contributions (NICs) will incentivise companies to invest more in productivity-enhancing technology, rather than relying on low-cost workers...

    ...Van Reenen told a 2020 podcast hosted by the innovation agency Nesta that he thought perhaps 40-45% of the productivity gap between the UK and US may be explained by these management differences.

    “This is where politics and economics bump up against each other,” says Portes, pointing out that, in a thriving economy, poorly run businesses will fail, to be replaced by more productive ones...
    Labour may be doomed, but Reeves could leave a golden legacy by bankrupting all the zombie businesses and creating negative net migration by clamping down on surplus employment.
    But doesn't whether one is a zombie depend on the circs? You are (presumably!) liable to become a zombie if fed with the right medicine ...
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,406
    Nigelb said:

    Just had really interesting feedback (albeit indirect) from someone immensely experienced and senior in world of finance/business/govt and by no means anti-Labour.

    Extremely depressed. Starmer and Reeves just don't get it at all. And the budget measures on NI and and workers' rights having a disastrous effect on businesses and their attitude to employing new staff.

    I had kinda thought that Starmer was at least a grown-up in the room. Well, he may be in chambers, but apparently not at all in the world outside of that. Very sobering.

    He is a grown up. He just doesn't know the subject and so is being dominated by the Treasury. He also (foolishly) promised loads more money for services and simultaneously ruled out tax rises across most of the board, leaving employers' NI as one of the few areas where meaningful money could be raised.
    The "disastrous effect on businesses" might even be deliberate policy ?
    This link got swallowed in the close of the last thread:

    What do we make of this character ?
    It appears he's suddenly very influential.

    ‘He’s one of the best’: the economist shaping Rachel Reeves’s growth plans
    John Van Reenen believes he can help Labour solve the ‘peculiar British problem’ of chronically weak productivity
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/jan/17/economist-shaping-rachel-reeves-growth-plans-john-van-reenen

    ..While Labour rarely spells it out for fear of being seen to applaud job losses, there is also a hope that a higher minimum wage, better workers’ rights and even the £25bn rise in national insurance contributions (NICs) will incentivise companies to invest more in productivity-enhancing technology, rather than relying on low-cost workers...

    ...Van Reenen told a 2020 podcast hosted by the innovation agency Nesta that he thought perhaps 40-45% of the productivity gap between the UK and US may be explained by these management differences.

    “This is where politics and economics bump up against each other,” says Portes, pointing out that, in a thriving economy, poorly run businesses will fail, to be replaced by more productive ones...
    Great read thanks for sharing. Decent stab at finding a unified theory behind what Labour is doing. I wouldnt be surprised if they are saving up customs union/SM re entry for next election.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,208
    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    From an interesting thread on a new book likely to appeal to some PB historians.

    ...My book uses the writings and perspectives of enlisted men in order to show that eighteenth-century battles were a negotiation of authority between officers and their men. The officers wanted the men to fight like they do in the movies. The men weren't having it...
    https://x.com/KKriegeBlog/status/1879918622447223077

    Oh, that looks interesting. Can I justify yet another history book in the house?
    It was a time when tactics were seriously not keeping up with the efficacy of firearms. Fighting a battle by standing in nice straight lines in brightly coloured coats was increasingly suicidal. It does not surprise me at all that it would be a subject of debate.
    https://x.com/KKriegeBlog/status/1879918637437555154
    ...When the Marquis de Montcalm (Plains of Abraham fame) sees infantry fighting from cover at Carillon in 1758, he doesn't say: wow, this is unique to North America!
    Instead, he says, "the firefight on both sides was like the Battle of Parma" (in North Italy, in 1734). The War of Polish Succession and the tactical developments it brought to infantry warfare, need to be reintroduced to the overall story of infantry tactics...
    I'm reminded of the British Army in North America. Thought some of the locals were unsporting - hid behind trees, didn't wear bright colours, used rifles, actually aimed them ...

    Edit: Washington did have regular units. And once the Brits cottoned on, and started developiong light companies with green jackets and rifles ...
    What is astonishing in light of that experience was the tactics of both sides in the American civil war. No wonder the casualties were so appalling.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,129
    edited January 17
    Roger said:

    RobD said:

    .

    Roger said:

    Strangers bar to shut on Monday after alleged spiking

    You're not sleeping with Guido are you? You used to be a serious poster albeit a dyed in the wool Tory one
    Huh? The story has been reported in several outlets. Don’t you believe it?
    Of course I believe it. It's trivial enough to be true.

    I'm simply amazed at the nonsense people are interested in.
    Someone having their drink spiked in a bar in parliament is a nonsense story?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,271
    Roger said:

    RobD said:

    .

    Roger said:

    Strangers bar to shut on Monday after alleged spiking

    You're not sleeping with Guido are you? You used to be a serious poster albeit a dyed in the wool Tory one
    Huh? The story has been reported in several outlets. Don’t you believe it?
    Of course I believe it. It's trivial enough to be true.

    I'm simply amazed at the nonsense people are interested in.
    Is it your expectation that the allegation is spurious?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,760
    From today's Fuck around

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    RFM: 25% (=)
    CON: 25% (+5)
    LAB: 24% (-1)
    LDM: 12% (+1)
    GRN: 10% (-1)
    SNP: 3% (=)

    Via @FindoutnowUK, 15 Jan.
    Changes w/ 8 Jan.

    SKS Fans please explain
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,368
    edited January 17

    Just had really interesting feedback (albeit indirect) from someone immensely experienced and senior in world of finance/business/govt and by no means anti-Labour.

    Extremely depressed. Starmer and Reeves just don't get it at all. And the budget measures on NI and and workers' rights having a disastrous effect on businesses and their attitude to employing new staff.

    I had kinda thought that Starmer was at least a grown-up in the room. Well, he may be in chambers, but apparently not at all in the world outside of that. Very sobering.

    He is a grown up. He just doesn't know the subject and so is being dominated by the Treasury. He also (foolishly) promised loads more money for services and simultaneously ruled out tax rises across most of the board, leaving employers' NI as one of the few areas where meaningful money could be raised.
    Ruling out tax rises was absurd. As it is Labour are going to get spanked by RefCon at the next election so they might as well row back on their ridiculous pledge and hit us with a range of measures that will apply to working people. I know it is inflationary and regressive but selective VAT increases would be my weapon of choice.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,766

    Off Topic

    Isn't nice of Elon to provide such a spectacular fireworks display yesterday.

    Expensive though..

    Success is uncertain, but entertainment is guaranteed! ✨
    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1880040599761596689

    (video embedded in tweet)
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    Cookie said:

    Roger said:

    RobD said:

    .

    Roger said:

    Strangers bar to shut on Monday after alleged spiking

    You're not sleeping with Guido are you? You used to be a serious poster albeit a dyed in the wool Tory one
    Huh? The story has been reported in several outlets. Don’t you believe it?
    Of course I believe it. It's trivial enough to be true.

    I'm simply amazed at the nonsense people are interested in.
    Is it your expectation that the allegation is spurious?
    Yes and completely overblown.

    I think the Taylor Swift tickets are much more interesting. Equally trivial but at least it's funny
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,843

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "John Curtice
    Britain’s politics is fragmenting – and it’s looking like Reform is here to stay
    One in six of those who still voted Conservative in July have now switched over to Nigel Farage’s insurgent party"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/01/16/britain-politics-fragmenting-reform-here-to-stay/

    There are still formidable electoral obstacles standing between Reform and becoming the second party. They're still behind the Tories in most polls and have hardly been setting the world of council byelections alight.

    Nevertheless, now is their chance.
    Hmm.. interested in your point re the by-elections. My gut feel is that they’ve done rather well, no? But willing to be told otherwise by the data.
    They have been making big gains in vote share in some places where they stand (like in the Cotswolds last night) but are still only standing in a small minority of seats and haven't won many. Their stats give the impression of being a reasonably successful minor party, like the Greens in the last parliament, but not a party knocking on the door of the conservatives.
    I think they're standing in most local by-elections at the moment? Not all but I'd guess over 80% (that said, Labour missed one last week).

    They're doing better than the Greens now or last parliament. Since the last May round of elections, they've gained 8 seats. That's not a huge number but then they've only been in the 20s for a few months.

    For context, in that time:
    - the Tories have defended 47 (held 30, lost 17) and gained 38;
    - Labour has defended 133 (held 96, lost 37), and gained 13;
    - the Lib Dems have defended 41 (held 28, lost 13) and gained 12;
    - the Greens have defended 7 (held 5, lost 2), and gained 6.

    So not yet a big breakthrough at that level but then council by-elections are not Reform's natural habitat. They don't have the activist experience or data, so lack ground game, which is crucial in these contests (because other parties will have them to concentrate in a way they won't in the normal May rounds). They also tend to focus on national rather than local issues, which again plays against them in these elections.
    Makes them vulnerable to boom and bust, of course. They are booming at the moment and may well continue to do so, and may make it through to the Welsh and Scottish elections and gain a haul there through PR, but ultimately FPTP is unforgiving.

    Tories not doomed but Kemi really will need to look considered and credible to the general public sooner or later, or she could be in trouble. A Cleverly/Tugendhat combo could look attractive in time if the Tories pivot to the LibDem threat and regaining seats in southern England.

  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,980
    Trump's inauguration will be moved indoors to avoid the risk of him repeating William Henry Harrison's trick.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,966
    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    RobD said:

    .

    Roger said:

    Strangers bar to shut on Monday after alleged spiking

    You're not sleeping with Guido are you? You used to be a serious poster albeit a dyed in the wool Tory one
    Huh? The story has been reported in several outlets. Don’t you believe it?
    Of course I believe it. It's trivial enough to be true.

    I'm simply amazed at the nonsense people are interested in.
    Someone having their drink spiked in a bar in parliament is a nonsense story?
    Closing a bar when this kind of appalling crime happens indicates that multiple instances have happened and that the management of the bar has really shit about dealing with the problem.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,368

    Nigelb said:

    Just had really interesting feedback (albeit indirect) from someone immensely experienced and senior in world of finance/business/govt and by no means anti-Labour.

    Extremely depressed. Starmer and Reeves just don't get it at all. And the budget measures on NI and and workers' rights having a disastrous effect on businesses and their attitude to employing new staff.

    I had kinda thought that Starmer was at least a grown-up in the room. Well, he may be in chambers, but apparently not at all in the world outside of that. Very sobering.

    He is a grown up. He just doesn't know the subject and so is being dominated by the Treasury. He also (foolishly) promised loads more money for services and simultaneously ruled out tax rises across most of the board, leaving employers' NI as one of the few areas where meaningful money could be raised.
    The "disastrous effect on businesses" might even be deliberate policy ?
    This link got swallowed in the close of the last thread:

    What do we make of this character ?
    It appears he's suddenly very influential.

    ‘He’s one of the best’: the economist shaping Rachel Reeves’s growth plans
    John Van Reenen believes he can help Labour solve the ‘peculiar British problem’ of chronically weak productivity
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/jan/17/economist-shaping-rachel-reeves-growth-plans-john-van-reenen

    ..While Labour rarely spells it out for fear of being seen to applaud job losses, there is also a hope that a higher minimum wage, better workers’ rights and even the £25bn rise in national insurance contributions (NICs) will incentivise companies to invest more in productivity-enhancing technology, rather than relying on low-cost workers...

    ...Van Reenen told a 2020 podcast hosted by the innovation agency Nesta that he thought perhaps 40-45% of the productivity gap between the UK and US may be explained by these management differences.

    “This is where politics and economics bump up against each other,” says Portes, pointing out that, in a thriving economy, poorly run businesses will fail, to be replaced by more productive ones...
    Labour may be doomed, but Reeves could leave a golden legacy by bankrupting all the zombie businesses and creating negative net migration by clamping down on surplus employment.
    Indeed, no one comes back from squandering a golden legacy. Not this Government, not the next.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,861
    DavidL said:

    viewcode said:

    Because we are so immersed in neoliberalism and have forgotten what is possible, here is a 17min video telling you why unions are a good idea:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHOGRhBkWOE

    My niece parted company with a marketing firm a few months ago. The source of the dispute seemed to be that her employer wanted her to wear makeup to work. She (a pretty girl, it must be said) was reluctant.

    Her mother, who has only ever worked in the public sector, said she should go to her union. Her daughter was baffled. She’d never actually come across a union in any of her employment.

    In 40 odd years of working in the law I have never come across a Union either ( other than as a source of business, almost exclusively in the public sector).

    With the collapse of large organised labour employers I wonder how many have.
    I, sadly, have to have some support from care workers. They are somewhat bemused when, as a result of discussion of some grievance or other, I suggest talking to their union rep.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,760
    If you want my body and you think I'm sleazy
    Come on, sugar, let me know
    If you really need me, just reach out and touch me
    Come on, honey, tell me so.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,843

    From today's Fuck around

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    RFM: 25% (=)
    CON: 25% (+5)
    LAB: 24% (-1)
    LDM: 12% (+1)
    GRN: 10% (-1)
    SNP: 3% (=)

    Via @FindoutnowUK, 15 Jan.
    Changes w/ 8 Jan.

    SKS Fans please explain

    Makes you wonder what the Reform polling ceiling is. I seem to remember the SDP hitting 50% at their peak.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,843

    If you want my body and you think I'm sleazy
    Come on, sugar, let me know
    If you really need me, just reach out and touch me
    Come on, honey, tell me so.

    "Nice 'n Sleazy does it, does it everytime..."
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,059
    edited January 17
    Roger said:

    Strangers bar to shut on Monday after alleged spiking

    You're not sleeping with Guido are you? You used to be a serious poster albeit a dyed in the wool Tory one
    What are you on about

    Sky reporting this story - are you saying it is untrue

    Maybe think before you knee jerk your reactions

    https://news.sky.com/story/parliament-bar-to-close-following-alleged-spiking-incident-13290840
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,358
    Nigelb said:

    Just had really interesting feedback (albeit indirect) from someone immensely experienced and senior in world of finance/business/govt and by no means anti-Labour.

    Extremely depressed. Starmer and Reeves just don't get it at all. And the budget measures on NI and and workers' rights having a disastrous effect on businesses and their attitude to employing new staff.

    I had kinda thought that Starmer was at least a grown-up in the room. Well, he may be in chambers, but apparently not at all in the world outside of that. Very sobering.

    He is a grown up. He just doesn't know the subject and so is being dominated by the Treasury. He also (foolishly) promised loads more money for services and simultaneously ruled out tax rises across most of the board, leaving employers' NI as one of the few areas where meaningful money could be raised.
    The "disastrous effect on businesses" might even be deliberate policy ?
    This link got swallowed in the close of the last thread:

    What do we make of this character ?
    It appears he's suddenly very influential.

    ‘He’s one of the best’: the economist shaping Rachel Reeves’s growth plans
    John Van Reenen believes he can help Labour solve the ‘peculiar British problem’ of chronically weak productivity
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/jan/17/economist-shaping-rachel-reeves-growth-plans-john-van-reenen

    ..While Labour rarely spells it out for fear of being seen to applaud job losses, there is also a hope that a higher minimum wage, better workers’ rights and even the £25bn rise in national insurance contributions (NICs) will incentivise companies to invest more in productivity-enhancing technology, rather than relying on low-cost workers...

    ...Van Reenen told a 2020 podcast hosted by the innovation agency Nesta that he thought perhaps 40-45% of the productivity gap between the UK and US may be explained by these management differences.

    “This is where politics and economics bump up against each other,” says Portes, pointing out that, in a thriving economy, poorly run businesses will fail, to be replaced by more productive ones...
    It also makes recruitment easier for public sector (NI increase recylcled tax) and small business (NI decrease at lower end and small impact for "bigger small" business) vs big corporates. There is some sense in that too when the govt needs to both restrain future public sector pay and recruit more into that sector.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,385
    edited January 17
    Nigelb said:

    Just had really interesting feedback (albeit indirect) from someone immensely experienced and senior in world of finance/business/govt and by no means anti-Labour.

    Extremely depressed. Starmer and Reeves just don't get it at all. And the budget measures on NI and and workers' rights having a disastrous effect on businesses and their attitude to employing new staff.

    I had kinda thought that Starmer was at least a grown-up in the room. Well, he may be in chambers, but apparently not at all in the world outside of that. Very sobering.

    He is a grown up. He just doesn't know the subject and so is being dominated by the Treasury. He also (foolishly) promised loads more money for services and simultaneously ruled out tax rises across most of the board, leaving employers' NI as one of the few areas where meaningful money could be raised.
    The "disastrous effect on businesses" might even be deliberate policy ?
    This link got swallowed in the close of the last thread:

    What do we make of this character ?
    It appears he's suddenly very influential.

    ‘He’s one of the best’: the economist shaping Rachel Reeves’s growth plans
    John Van Reenen believes he can help Labour solve the ‘peculiar British problem’ of chronically weak productivity
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/jan/17/economist-shaping-rachel-reeves-growth-plans-john-van-reenen

    ..While Labour rarely spells it out for fear of being seen to applaud job losses, there is also a hope that a higher minimum wage, better workers’ rights and even the £25bn rise in national insurance contributions (NICs) will incentivise companies to invest more in productivity-enhancing technology, rather than relying on low-cost workers...

    ...Van Reenen told a 2020 podcast hosted by the innovation agency Nesta that he thought perhaps 40-45% of the productivity gap between the UK and US may be explained by these management differences.

    “This is where politics and economics bump up against each other,” says Portes, pointing out that, in a thriving economy, poorly run businesses will fail, to be replaced by more productive ones...
    I was researching Chinese salaries, which for skilled jobs are close to, sometimes higher, than in the UK in Sterling amounts. What struck me were the very high mandatory social charges placed on employers - about 25% including pension, medical insurance, housing levy
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,966

    Roger said:

    Strangers bar to shut on Monday after alleged spiking

    You're not sleeping with Guido are you? You used to be a serious poster albeit a dyed in the wool Tory one
    What are you on about

    Sky reporting this story - are you saying it is untrue

    Maybe think before you knee jerk your reactions

    https://news.sky.com/story/parliament-bar-to-close-following-alleged-spiking-incident-13290840
    Roger has an eclectic reaction to a certain kind of news story.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,271
    Roger said:

    Cookie said:

    Roger said:

    RobD said:

    .

    Roger said:

    Strangers bar to shut on Monday after alleged spiking

    You're not sleeping with Guido are you? You used to be a serious poster albeit a dyed in the wool Tory one
    Huh? The story has been reported in several outlets. Don’t you believe it?
    Of course I believe it. It's trivial enough to be true.

    I'm simply amazed at the nonsense people are interested in.
    Is it your expectation that the allegation is spurious?
    Yes and completely overblown.

    I think the Taylor Swift tickets are much more interesting. Equally trivial but at least it's funny
    Spurious (i.e. probably didn't happen) or overblown (i.e. a trivial story)?
    My understanding is that the proportion of spiking allegations which are spurious (i.e. not actually spiking) is somewhere between 30 and 99 percent. But I know relatively little about it.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,980
    FF43 said:

    Just had really interesting feedback (albeit indirect) from someone immensely experienced and senior in world of finance/business/govt and by no means anti-Labour.

    Extremely depressed. Starmer and Reeves just don't get it at all. And the budget measures on NI and and workers' rights having a disastrous effect on businesses and their attitude to employing new staff.

    I had kinda thought that Starmer was at least a grown-up in the room. Well, he may be in chambers, but apparently not at all in the world outside of that. Very sobering.

    He is a grown up. He just doesn't know the subject and so is being dominated by the Treasury. He also (foolishly) promised loads more money for services and simultaneously ruled out tax rises across most of the board, leaving employers' NI as one of the few areas where meaningful money could be raised.
    I think also Starmer is a better politician than people give him credit for. He knows people prefer tax rises to fall on their employers rather than directly on themselves, given the tax rises are unavoidable. It may not make economic sense but it makes political sense, and that is what he cares about
    Across five years (and sometimes much less), what makes economic sense and what makes political sense have a tendency to converge. They certainly can't be kept apart indefinitely.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 57,145

    Just had really interesting feedback (albeit indirect) from someone immensely experienced and senior in world of finance/business/govt and by no means anti-Labour.

    Extremely depressed. Starmer and Reeves just don't get it at all. And the budget measures on NI and and workers' rights having a disastrous effect on businesses and their attitude to employing new staff.

    I had kinda thought that Starmer was at least a grown-up in the room. Well, he may be in chambers, but apparently not at all in the world outside of that. Very sobering.

    Yes

    It’s becoming very apparent that both Starmer and Reeves are calamitously over-promoted. “Rachel from Accounts” is funny because it’s correct. She’s a deputy bank manager on your high street

    Starmer is a midrange career lawyer who should never have made it to DPP - let alone PM - the most unimaginative premier in our history at a time when we desperately need imagination

    Added to this Starmer has ridiculous woke “humans rights lawyer” opinions and stiffly believes they are morally correct and they are so unpopular they could destroy the Labour Party by themselves

    It’s… unideal for Labour
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,271
    Cookie said:

    Roger said:

    Cookie said:

    Roger said:

    RobD said:

    .

    Roger said:

    Strangers bar to shut on Monday after alleged spiking

    You're not sleeping with Guido are you? You used to be a serious poster albeit a dyed in the wool Tory one
    Huh? The story has been reported in several outlets. Don’t you believe it?
    Of course I believe it. It's trivial enough to be true.

    I'm simply amazed at the nonsense people are interested in.
    Is it your expectation that the allegation is spurious?
    Yes and completely overblown.

    I think the Taylor Swift tickets are much more interesting. Equally trivial but at least it's funny
    Spurious (i.e. probably didn't happen) or overblown (i.e. a trivial story)?
    My understanding is that the proportion of spiking allegations which are spurious (i.e. not actually spiking) is somewhere between 30 and 99 percent. But I know relatively little about it.
    ...meant to add - my view is possibly spurious but if not spurious then certainly not overblown.
  • Roger said:

    RobD said:

    .

    Roger said:

    Strangers bar to shut on Monday after alleged spiking

    You're not sleeping with Guido are you? You used to be a serious poster albeit a dyed in the wool Tory one
    Huh? The story has been reported in several outlets. Don’t you believe it?
    Of course I believe it. It's trivial enough to be true.

    I'm simply amazed at the nonsense people are interested in.
    Do you seriously think spiking a drink is nonsense ?

    And even more so in Parliament
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